Juggler 2

[Proofreaders2000]

I don't want to argue with you Proof, you are one of the best people here on the forum.--Ignatus

It's a learning experience for both of us

But I still think that is an unrealistic goal to imagine 4 numbers or less will make regular hits.--Ignatus

If you can identify the temporary bias it is realistic.  Each dealer has a unique spinning style that favors only a few numbers (Dealer's Signature).  Also, Roulette wheels are not completely stable--(there may be a slight lean on the table)  That lean causes imperfections over time--which causes a bias among numbers.

[ignatus]

I'm putting this strategy on hold now for awhile. Result was not what I expected. I think it's not effective for short term play. :/ I'm working on a new strategy now, betting on medium hot numbers. See how that goes.

Ideas how to play The Juggle in the best way are welcome and if it's possible to improve it.

[Proofreaders2000]

What would happen if we flat-bet only one number at a time those numbers that have hit three times since we start tracking.  When a new number comes in (that has hit three times), we only bet that new number...and on and on...

[ignatus]

What would happen if we bet only one number at a time those numbers that have hit three times since we start tracking.  When a new number comes in (that has hit three times), we only bet that new number...and on and on...

Ok. Yes that could work, it's a basically a repeter strategy. (Waiting for numbers to repeat) If you like try it, and show some result? if they're good more people can try playing this way?
Perhaps two repeats is enough then? Sometimes a number just repeat 3 times an no more etc? Try different ways. I have a bad patience, as you know!  Must be a effective method for me to try it.

Thanks proof 

[rouletteKEY]

Why not bet 37 numbers...that's the strike rate you are looking for and you have the advantage of having money on the medium hot numbers you now want, the hot numbers and the sleepers.

Once your bank is down to 36 units you can stop since you can't continue your method.

The beauty is with your 50 unit bankroll the most you can lose is 16.  If you bet every 8th spin this will keep you at the table for 128 spins plus tracking beforehand.

Tracking is simple since all numbers spun qualify as hot, cold or medium.

Thats 4 hours of entertainment for 16 units and you win every single bet.   


Ohhhh...except for losing 36 units on the numbers that didn't come in each winning spin

I think the rate of decay is about 2.7% of bankroll on this method (might have to check the abacus on that one)

...even though you win every spin...

or you could take the hottest number on the board...play one unit for 36 spins and then you would get 7 more spins with two units on it...43 chances to actually come out on top

hmmm makes you wonder about whether you are playing for strike rate or profit

I swore off answering your posts awhile ago...got sucked back in when you looked like you were progressing and here we are again...what was I thinking? 

[Smoczoor]

rouletteKEY easy... I can understand Ignatus. He has billion ideas per minute. He is not so experienced as u. He plays roullete probably for few months like me. We need experience. We have too try everything. A few weeks ago he was huge fan of progression. Look at him now - he understand that progression isn't so good.
We are like little kids... and you're acting like nagging grandmother or aunt  Do not take us lollipops.


and seriously
Your advices are very valuable and I think we take it to heart, but they need some time to bloom...

never stop to give us the advices, but do not be angry as we continue to try to go against the tide

[rouletteKEY]

Just trying to find another way to illustrate the point...tough to transmit tone in a post

Tone should read as frustrated but on the lighter side...trying to help...not trying to be an as*hole about things...any sarcasm...well...that's just my gift can't help that too much

Thought the extreme example would help to illustrate the incurred losses diminishing the wins significance in bankroll

...and point out that we are playing for bankroll...not to just feel good or satisfied about strike rates

they are two different and distinct entities...keep your eye on the prize

[ignatus]

rouletteKEY. I don't know why you're upset? Juggler 2 was a result of your complaint. it's playing with 5 numbers. I tried to increase the hitrate by only betting numbers hit 3 times? But obviously the hitrate was not so good as expected and playing with 5 numbers didn't work so well? That's my experience. Juggler 1 worked better playing with 7 numbers hit twice. Perhaps Proofs idea playing with 1 number hit 2 or 3 times would work better. I don't know. What i do know is this method does not give great profit short term. I require many spins. And im not sure I have the patience for that. Especially playing live. I'd like to see results within 200 spins etc...

[Smoczoor]

Currently I'm doing a lot of testing Juggler system (i know  my english are bad -sorry!)

first part of tests are based on today Betfair spins (2 hour live session)

Juggler 1.0 - (7 numbers betting)
Juggler 2.0 - (5 number betting and 7 numbers in waiting room)
Juggler 2.1 - (its my modification of Juggler 2 - im betting 1 unit on numbers in waiting room and 2 units in 5 number betting)

next results soon... now i have to relax with my favourite online game (LoL )

[ignatus]

Smoczoor. I am sorry, this is what I feared. And I had similar test results. Thanks for your effort... I had great results with Juggler 1 doing a lot of spins, profit cannot be expected in less than 200-300 spins obviously.

[Smoczoor]

Why u sorry? Why u feel bad? Are u kidding? Im playing with your Juggler 1 becouse it is stable system. If i win 30-50 Euro i quit and dancing  When session is bad (there are no bad sessions but only sessions which are going around 0) i play longer or i leave session at any profit. This is my money management.  Look at my session from Thursday

[ignatus]

Why u sorry? Why u feel bad? Are u kidding? I'm playing with your Juggler 1 becouse it is stable system. If i win 30-50 Euro i quit and dancing  When session is bad (there are no bad sessions but only sessions which are going around 0) i play longer or i leave session at any profit. This is my money management.  Look at my session from Thursday

Alright, thanks.  Was just alittle worried..... :S

Yes, in long term play it work better. Usually you recover from bad streaks. I haven't really had a seriously bad run with Juggler 2 , only neutral trends... true. And with Juggler 1 always recovered from bad streaks if continue playing...

[rouletteKEY]

Ignatus, not terribly upset.  Frustrated...frustrated that you continue to scatter yourself about.  You had a fairly stable system that just required a few tweaks and some time to see where it could go.  Within a few days you are doing a complete reboot and in the interim have gone to less numbers (5) and now back to not less than 9 numbers I thought I read.

I tried to help with suggesting less numbers, a stop-loss and a win or spin goal to end the session.  Maybe those suggestions work, maybe not.  They work for me and have for quite a long time.

If I were you I would go back to Juggler I and look at making tweaks...test with less numbers...test with a stop loss to end the session early...test with a win or spin end point (like stop after 4 or 5 wins or stop at 38 spins from the start of tracking...something like that)

Some methods require sessions with long attacks...if you are playing airball your spin rate is twice that of an average wheel and even more than a busy wheel.  If you play on a busy wheel and get 25 spins an hour you can't effectively play a 200 spin method.

My suggestion is to find a method that you have a chance to make a profit on (which you had) and then tweak (small changes through intensive testing) to meet your style of play without sacrificing the effectiveness of the method.  Spend all your time seeing that particular method through to its logical conclusion (is it a bust or a regular player?)

Then move on to your next big idea. 

I think Mr J has essentially said the same thing in about 300 less words.

I've been playing for years.  I utilize a half dozen different methods.  One which I developed that is close to your Juggler and then the remainder are tweaks off of other players methods.  In years I am on a half dozen methods and usually testing two or three new methods at any one time.  About once a year I may add something new to my bag of tricks.

It's like everything else in life, do you want to be a jack of all trades and master of none?  Or, would you rather master (in this case) a method or two, which in this particular game can still leave you wanting?

Done philosophizing now...off to soccer games

[ignatus]

rouletteKEY. Thanks alot.  Yes, you're right, waiting for 3 hits was perhaps not the best idea. 2 hits would be enough. I agree.

I played Juggler I now with 4 numbers - Great results! (Guess I should listen to advice more often!) 

[rusa71]

Ignatus, not terribly upset.  Frustrated...frustrated that you continue to scatter yourself about.  You had a fairly stable system that just required a few tweaks and some time to see where it could go.  Within a few days you are doing a complete reboot and in the interim have gone to less numbers (5) and now back to not less than 9 numbers I thought I read.

I tried to help with suggesting less numbers, a stop-loss and a win or spin goal to end the session.  Maybe those suggestions work, maybe not.  They work for me and have for quite a long time.

If I were you I would go back to Juggler I and look at making tweaks...test with less numbers...test with a stop-loss to end the session early...test with a win or spin end point (like stop after 4 or 5 wins or stop at 38 spins from the start of tracking...something like that)

Some methods require sessions with long attacks...if you are playing airball your spin rate is twice that of an average wheel and even more than a busy wheel.  If you play on a busy wheel and get 25 spins an hour you can't effectively play a 200 spin method.

My suggestion is to find a method that you have a chance to make a profit on (which you had) and then tweak (small changes through intensive testing) to meet your style of play without sacrificing the effectiveness of the method.  Spend all your time seeing that particular method through to its logical conclusion (is it a bust or a regular player?)

Then move on to your next big idea. 

I think Mr J has essentially said the same thing in about 300 less words.

I've been playing for years.  I utilize a half dozen different methods.  One which I developed that is close to your Juggler and then the remainder are tweaks off of other players methods.  In years I am on a half dozen methods and usually testing two or three new methods at any one time.  About once a year I may add something new to my bag of tricks.

It's like everything else in life, do you want to be a jack of all trades and master of none?  Or, would you rather master (in this case) a method or two, which in this particular game can still leave you wanting?

Done philosophizing now...off to soccer games

Great post! Thanks...rouletteKEY, due your experience, if you recommend to play airball on 2 to 5 hot numbers? Or it's not make sence on airball machine? Very interesting in your opinion...