Here's a method I use in baccarat where it is more successful because there are no zero's.You can use it on roulette as is or you can decide to cover the zero's.You record the decisions as follows, if the last decision was a red you check what the result was two back,if it was also a red it is recorded as a win ,if it was a black,it is recorded as a loss.As you record the results,you only bet after the following streaks ,two losses in a row,or two wins in a row.If you get two losses in a row or two wins in a row bet the same as the decision two back.Play no other streaks.
For money management I use the penthouse progression.1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-5-5-etc.Move one position to the right on a loss and move one position to the left on a win,reset after a plus 1 and start again.I play for +3.
B
P
B-w
P-w
(bet here same as 2 back) B-w+1(reset)
Are you speaking o* decision be*ore last? Penultimate?
Sam
I am very basic with baccarat...never studied it
I get it...but like 100 times less than roulette and even less than Craps.
In roulette, there "seem" to be limits, and sods law says if it can happen, it will. So red or black can easy sleep for 15-20 times
is this seen in Baccarat? Dealer wins 20 in a row...player wins 15 in a row etc?
looks good, you can somehow ride on both streaky and choppy table.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Apr 06, 03:06 PM 2013
Are you speaking o* decision be*ore last? Penultimate?
Sam
Sam, It looks like he's playing both penultimate and opposite penultimate. If penultimate wins 2 times in a row, bet the penultimate will win a 3rd time. If opposite penultimate wins 2 times in a row, bet opposite penultimate will win a 3rd time.
For all us believers in trends, this should be a good bet method to catch short trends.
Dutchy, I love the penthouse bet progression and +3 is a good win target. Do you use a stop-loss?
GLC
Guys, I think Dutchy waits for two wins or losses of a penultimate EC before betting
B
R
B 1st virtual win
B
B 2nd virtual win, bet black next as colour before last was Black
R loss
R 1st virtual loss
R 2nd virtual loss
Bet red
R WIN
Quote from: buffalowizard on Apr 07, 11:06 AM 2013
Guys, I think Dutchy waits for two wins or losses of a penultimate EC before betting
B
R
B 1st virtual win
B BW, isn't this a virtual loss, thus eliminating the above virtual win? :question: Dutchy where are you?
B 2nd virtual win, bet black next as colour before last was Black
R loss
R 1st virtual loss
R 2nd virtual loss
Bet red
R WIN
GLC
Quote from: Dutchy on Apr 06, 02:54 PM 2013
As you record the results,you only bet after the following streaks ,two losses in a row,or two wins in a row.
If you get two losses in a row or two wins in a row bet the same as the decision two back.
I believe he is describing two events in a row, not a running total of two in a row.
AD
Also, this particular style of wagering is interesting in that it will beat all "425's", lose only to the first "2" in a string of terrible twos, and catches all of the singles.
This does has possibilites.
I've done some random testing on pulled sheets from my baccarat compilation (all live, no RNG) and the longest losing streak of placed wagers is 3. Not bad for initial testing.
I'll keep this one on the front burner and test it daily to see if there's something that needs to be done to tweak it up a bit.
Also, for those contemplating baccrat, or those who do not understand it, you'll be happy to know that most "casual" players at the baccrat table don't know the details of the game either.
If you wish to test the waters, so to speak, think of it as betting on Red/Black on a wheel with no zeroes. That's as simple as I can make it. You have no decisions to make other than what to wager on... Player or Banker.
AD
So when you win, you now have 3 wins, 2 virtual and 1 real. When does the next trigger come?
For example if you got another virtual win straight after the real one would you bet it again.
B
P
B - virtual
P - virtual
B - +1
P - virtual
???? Bet again here
Quote from: Dutchy on Apr 06, 02:54 PM 2013
Here's a method I use in baccarat where it is more successful because there are no zero's.You can use it on roulette as is or you can decide to cover the zero's.You record the decisions as follows, if the last decision was a red you check what the result was two back,if it was also a red it is recorded as a win ,if it was a black,it is recorded as a loss.As you record the results,you only bet after the following streaks ,two losses in a row,or two wins in a row.If you get two losses in a row or two wins in a row bet the same as the decision two back.Play no other streaks.
For money management I use the penthouse progression.1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4-5-5-etc.Move one position to the right on a loss and move one position to the left on a win,reset after a plus 1 and start again.I play for +3.
B
P
B-w
P-w
(bet here same as 2 back) B-w+1(reset)
It sounds to me like we can only bet for the penultimate on a signal and the signal can be either 2 virtual wins or 2 virtual losses.
I guess if you win your bet, you have to track for another trigger of either 2 wins or 2 losses and then you can bet the penultimate again.
Maybe it doesn't matter if one of the wins was a real bet.
In DaDee's example, his real bet win could be the 1st of the 2 wins needed for a bet signal. It might also be the 2nd win of a trigger.
Dutchy, help!
Hi folks,I'll do my best to try to clear up a few points.Hopefully this example will do.You track the results as we go along.We only bet after two losses or two wins( virtual)this is the trigger as of when to bet.)If the decision 2 back is the same as the last decision it is declared a win if it is not, it is declared a loss.We start from beginning.
R
B
R-w(same as two back)
B-w(same as two back)(trigger to bet as two virtual wins,bet same as two back R)
R-w(+1)(stop play until you get two virtual wins or two virtual Losses),we;ll continue
R-L(1st virtual loss)
B-L(2nd vitual loss)(trigger to bet,bet same as two back R)
R-w(+1)(stop play until two virtual wins or two virtual losses)
R-L
B-L(as two virtual losses bet next hand,bet R)
B-L(-1 unit,loss)
R-L
B-w
R-w(trigger to bet again.bet B)
B-w(win,even in series as lost 4 back).Continue on in this mannner.Reset at +1.Always back to 1 in the penthouse scale after a +1.If you lose 4 in a row your next bet is 3(1-1-2-2).Hope this helps,George the penthouse is great as you know,never really escalating at a high rate but at a modest rate.Stop loss is a personal thing but if you have a good bankroll this will help alot.Like I said I use it at Baccarat because no zero's.
Dutchy, Thanks for your explanation. That is very clear. I was playing just the way you posted and reached +20 in about 60 spins. I have a few tracking periods where I didn't get a trigger to bet for 10 + spins. It was an easy win. Biggest draw down was 4 units.
A couple of times I had
R
R
R W Virtual
R W Virtual Next is a bet
R W +1
R W Virtual
R W Virtual Next is a bet. Feels like I should bet for B since I've had 7 R's in a row.
I had 2 of these and I won 1 and lost the other.
Interesting bet selection method.
The zeros are a pain in the neck. But they always are in roulette.
GLC
George,glad you had a good run but I must clear up one more thing.If you get the following:R-
R-
R-w
R-w(trigger,bet 2 back)
R-W(+1)I stop right here as I only bet on w-w or L-L sequences.
R-
R-
I believe you have a decent chance of cutting a few units a day if played as above. :ooh:
Quote from: Dutchy on Apr 07, 05:35 PM 2013
George,glad you had a good run but I must clear up one more thing.If you get the following:R-
R-
R-w
R-w(trigger,bet 2 back)
R-W(+1)I stop right here as I only bet on w-w or L-L sequences.
R-
R-
I believe you have a decent chance of cutting a few units a day if played as above. :ooh:
Hey mate, can you confirm something for me.
If I get,
W
W - bet for a win now
W +1
W
W - do I bet for a W now??? Or does there need to be some L's between the W's
Cheers
Quote from: Dutchy on Apr 07, 05:35 PM 2013
George,glad you had a good run but I must clear up one more thing.If you get the following:R-
R-
R-w
R-w(trigger,bet 2 back)
R-W(+1)I stop right here as I only bet on w-w or L-L sequences.
R-
R-
I believe you have a decent chance of cutting a few units a day if played as above. :ooh:
So basically after a win you retrack and wait for another ww or ll trigger
Quote from: buffalowizard on Apr 07, 06:22 PM 2013
So basically after a win you retrack and wait for another ww or ll trigger
Yes but what if the streak of W's or L's continue, do you count them as a trigger?
I gave an example in my previous post.
DaDee,you only bet after a w-w or L-L sequence,if it goes three or more no bet.BuffaloWizard,your right ,you reset after a win and wait for your next w-w or L-L sequence. :wink:
I done a test on 256 shoes.
That's about 10000 results.
There was,
1429 wins
1310 loses
Looking at the WL streaks, it didn't look any different that just betting P or B for every result.
Havent been here for awhile, finally some baccarat talk_: ) Looks interesting i will check it further
Just a quick note about this system,it's not always roses.I did a shoe from random.org yesterday where I was down quite a few units,it took me 26 bets to win out.During that time I only won 11 of 26(42.31%).So not bad for only winning 11/26 and still winning out.Any experiences from some of the forum would be appreciated. >:D
Sorry, double posting. Please delete this.
Thanks
Hello Dutchy,
Thanks for the system.
Quote from: Dutchy on Apr 08, 02:58 PM 2013
Just a quick note about this system,it's not always roses.I did a shoe from random.org yesterday where I was down quite a few units,it took me 26 bets to win out.During that time I only won 11 of 26(42.31%).So not bad for only winning 11/26 and still winning out.Any experiences from some of the forum would be appreciated. >:D
If you don't mind,could you please show us how to play out the above session.
B
B
B W (virtual win 1)
B W (virtual win 2)
B W (actual win +1)
P L (virtual loss 1)
P L (virtual loss 2)
P W (actual win +1)
P W (virtual win 1)
? do we bet here?
Thanks & Regards
Sniper,you played it as it should be played and yes you make the last bet.Just remember you only bet after w-w or L-L sequences. :thumbsup:
What's your stop loss?
and how many times you reach it every 10 shoes?
many thanks
Andreabac,
I personally only play for a +3 because the higher your goals the harder it is to achieve them and the higher your chance of losing your bankroll.This system is such that it is possible to pull out a win even if you lose more than you win.See a previous post were it took 26 bets to get a +1,the system pulled out a winner with 11 wins and 15 losses.So like other methods there are hard sessions.For many people that statement will put them off.I recently did a session at random.org,I beleive I was down 19 units and came back for a +1.It depends on you if you want to go that far for the unit.Many will not and I can accept that.My personal thoughts are a bankroll of 60 or more units will stand you in good position to win a high percentage of +3's or more.If you loose 30 units or more I would stop the chase.Again it is a personal decision.Hope that helps. :ooh:
Today's trip notes,only for the stoutest of grinders.I reached a +2 easily and then all hell broke loose.It took me an amazing 92 bets to win out the next unit.The final count was 42 wins and 50 looses(45.65%).At one point I was down 65 units and wanted to quit but then I wanted to see how it would end.The maximum bet was 9 units.
It was amazing to come back from a 65 unit loss.The penthouse progression was great.As a result of today's play I'll have revise my stop-loss to a minimium of 78 units and pray the sky doesn't fall any further! :embarrassed:
that 78u, exactly how many steps is that in penthouse....
Hi!
I tested this with real Money, SEK kr small once,my furtune, it tanked heavily for me, i did everything i could, i lost 80 units.
Ok i did not have a stoploss, my bad.
I had to go to 10 in progression.
I will Control if i played it right but i Think so.
Sorry i Think , maybe bad luck.
agesta :(
Marvin that would take you to the first play on the 9th step(that would be 81 units).Agesta,sorry for your heavy loss, that's what we don't like to see.Were you ever up a +3 before the loss? Or did it just tank from the get go?It's strange how it goes.I set what I thought were very modest goals, just a +3 and as you can see that doesn't always happen. :(
Much better result today(+3).27 bets -13 winners(48.15%).Highest bet was only 3 units.Tested at random.org. >:D
Quote from: Dutchy on Apr 16, 01:03 PM 2013
Marvin that would take you to the first play on the 9th step(that would be 81 units).Agesta,sorry for your heavy loss, that's what we don't like to see.Were you ever up a +3 before the loss? Or did it just tank from the get go?It's strange how it goes.I set what I thought were very modest goals, just a +3 and as you can see that doesn't always happen. :(
Hi
I reached +2 units in the first 5 bets, then i lost until +5 in progression and then it was ups and downs maybe for 20 spins and then came the big hole.
I have controlled my game maybe 1 or 2 bets that i did wrong.
I will test this further because i like this anyway.
Agesta
Today's results from random.org-(+3)-12 bets-7 wins(58.33%)-most units down 2-highest unit bet 2 units. ^-^
One more form random.org-(+3)-8 bets-5 wins(62.50%)-most units down 4-highest unit bet 2. ^-^
After further testing I have decided to make a major tweet to this method.This will protect the bankroll a whole lot more and as a result you will bet less and your unit bets will be smaller.You will still bet after w-w or L-L sequences but with a further qualification that you must of won your last(real bet).If you lost your last real bet you must win a virtual bet before starting to bet again.This will be a big help, when in the past we got L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L we lost many units as a result now we'll only lose the first bet.
example
p-b-(3)L(-7)
p-w
b-w
p-b-L virtual win needed(VWN)-lost
b-w
b-w
b-p-L (VWN)-lost
b-w
p-w
b-b-w(vwm)-win
p-w
p-L
b-L
p-p-w(3)w(-4)
Dutchy,
any more updates?
thanks
today's trip notes (+3).testing at random.org.If I lost a bet I needed a virtual win before starting again.VWN(virtual win needed)
B
B
P-L
B-L
(p) P-W(1) W+1 (RESET)
P-L
B-L
(p) B-L(1)L(-1)
B-L
B-W
P-L
P-L
(p) B-L VWN (L)
P-W
B-W
(p) P-W VWN (w)
B-W
P-W
B-W
B-L
B-W
B-W
(b) P-L(1) L(-2)
B-W
P-W
(B) P-L VWN(L)
B-L
(P) P-W (2) W (E)
P-L
P-W
P-W
(P) B-L (1) L(-1)
B-L
(B) P-L VWN (L)
B-W
B-L
P-L
(B) B-W VWN (w)
P-W
(B) B-W (2) W +1 RESET
B-L
B-W
P-L
P-L
(P) P-W (1) +1 RESET >:D
There are a few mistakes in the first few decisions,the shoe ended up a +2.
Dutchy,
do you deploy always the Penthouse prog?
do you set a stop loss for a shoe or session?
thanks
Andrebac,I only use the penthouse progression just because I think it's effective.I play only for a +3,once I achieve this I leave.Stop-loss is a personal decision depends on your bankroll ,your goals. ^-^
Penthouse is great I use it a lot--I also use positive progressions ---
best o luck
Dutchy,
I got a notification that you replied to my personal message. But my INBOX is empty. It only contains a copied pasted of my message to you?
Can you resend your personal message to me again please.
Thanks, GOD BLess,
John
Hi John,Sorry for the non message my mistake.My explanation on the 1st and 12th posts explain everything as best as i can.The only other adjustment I made was if you get a loss, stop until you get a win then begin betting.Example B
R
B-W(same as two back)
R-W(same as two back)(trigger to bet two wins,w-w bet same as two back)
B-won
The other trigger to bet is L-L(TWO VIRTUAL LOSSES,THE EXAMPLE ABOVE WAS TWO VIRTUAL WINS).You only bet these two triggers that's it.My adjustment was if you loose a bet wait until you win your next bet and then begin betting on the next trigger.John record the results black or red vertically and check the result two back if it is the same it is recorded as a win if it is different it is recorded as a loss.You will not get alot of action if you are losing because you are waiting for a win and then the next trigger before betting.Best of luck! ;D
Thank you.
John
Best!... Dutchy method apply from baccarat and money management. i use 11223344..(i call it ..repeat D'Alembert) on my system baccarat i think i very good work and sometime i use 111222334455.. on my playing too.
I used GLC's money management for dozen of roulette playing. My dozen playing, by statistics of number 1 - 36 and win more than lose exactly.
Dutchy i read your explain example bet seclection. Is it incorrect? (highlight)
B
B
P-L
B-L
(p) P-W(1) W+1 (RESET)
P-L
B-L
(p) B-L(1)L(-1)
B-L
B-W
P-L
P-L
(p) B-L VWN (L)
P-W
B-W
(p) P-W VWN (w)
B-W
P-W
B-W
B-L
B-W
B-W
(b) P-L(1) L(-2)
B-W
P-W
(B) P-L VWN(L)
B-L
(P) P-W (2) W (E)
P-L
P-W
P-W
(P) B-L (1) L(-1)
B-L
(B) P-L VWN (L)
B-W
B-L
P-L
(B) B-W VWN (w)
P-W
(B) B-W (2) W +1 RESET
B-L
B-W
P-L
P-L
(P) P-W (1) +1 RESET
Donjuan,you are correct in your assumption.I explained in a post or two down that there was a few mistakes.Regards,Dutchy :P
After playing this system for some time I now play it the following way.
b
p
b-w
p-w(now bet opposite of two back,betting for P)
p-L(you win).Note this is for ww sequence.
For the LL sequence play as follows
p
p
b-L
b-L
P-L(you win)opposite of two back.
Hope this helps,note I use the penthouse progression.And as always only betting after WW or LL sequence and now betting opposite of two back.Regards,Dutchy
thank dutchy..
you can try this method..
you use opposite and same in LL or WW. If you start with Same, make you lose. you change Same and use Opposite.
Example
B R B R R B B R R B B R B B B B R B B R
W W L L L L L L L L W LW W LW L L
s o s o (normal start with s (same))
-1 1 -1 2
If score make you lose you will change S to O at start point.
B R B R R B B R R B B R B B B B R B B R
W W L L L L L L L L W LW W LW L L
o s o s o s o s o s o s...about 40 - 60 spins and stop this session.
Donjuan,thanks for your method,interesting.That's the good thing about the forum,you post your METHOD and people share there ideas.Everybody seeing it a little differently.For me I don't want to be betting every spin or hand thats why only after LL or WW. :thumbsup:
This apply method is not bet every spin. It is like your method by bet after LL or WW.
My apply .. adding O S or S O.
If O S make more lose on beginning test game, stop using O S and replace by S O.
Example s = same or repeat o = opposite
B B B R B R B B B R R B B R B B B R R B R R R R B B R R B R R R R B R B R B B B R B R R B
W L W W W L W L L L L L W L W L L L W L W W L L L L L W L W W L W W W W L W L W W L L
o s o
bet R result B bet R result B bet R result B <-------- use o starting test give more lose so next bet u will use s o replace..
-1 -1 -2
no bet no bet no bet
B B B R B R B B B R R B B R B B B R R B R R R R B B R R B R R R R B R B R B B B R B R R B
W L W W W L W L L L L L W L W L L L W L W W L L L L L W L W W L W W W W L W L W W L L
s o s o s o s o s
no bet no bet no bet start bet here
---------->
Hmmm, it has been a while since i have been playing at Dublinbet.
Maybe i should ease back in with this method...
Anyone else tried it on baccarat and roulette?
Thanks everyone for sharing!
Just an update on this method.I have been tracking it for years.The pattern w-w play to loose is the best way to play it,
example
p
p
p-w(same as two back)
p-w(same as two back)(trigger to bet,opposite of two back)
b-l(you win)Begin tracking again looking for w-w pattern.
example 2
b
p
b-w(same as two back)
p-w(same as two back)(trigger to bet,opposite of two back)
p-l(you win)(Begin tracking again for w-w pattern)
I bet under no other condition and I still use the penthouse progression as explained earlier.
Quote from: Dutchy on Feb 10, 05:38 PM 2015
Just an update on this method.I have been tracking it for years.The pattern w-w play to loose is the best way to play it,
example
p
p
p-w(same as two back)
p-w(same as two back)(trigger to bet,opposite of two back)
b-l(you win)Begin tracking again looking for w-w pattern.
example 2
b
p
b-w(same as two back)
p-w(same as two back)(trigger to bet,opposite of two back)
p-l(you win)(Begin tracking again for w-w pattern)
I bet under no other condition and I still use the penthouse progression as explained earlier.
Dutchy,
You dont wait for any virtual wins or losses? Simply, WW, then bet against it? using PH progression?
Thanks.
Also, do you have a stop loss in place and do you have a win goal/shoe?
Also, what do you do when you have WWW, do you bet again right away for the loss to come in or wait for another W which would be 4 now and bet again? Or you could have WWWL, obviously if you wait you would wait for another WWWLWW then bet for the L to come in....
Wish dutchy came back to explain!!!
:thumbsup:Ilikebaccarat, I only bet under the WW trigger(wait for it).The reason being is I don't believe in betting ever hand so this cuts the shoe down to a limited number of bets.If it goes WWW that means we have lost the bet and wait for the next ww trigger.As for a stop loss its not really needed because you have limited bets but if you get a bad run of luck you could impose one.ILB, I think one of main reasons we loose is because we bet to often(craving action).As for a goal for the shoe play for as much as possible, minimum +3,again this may be to low for some.Regards.
Dutchy,
Thank you for the response. No, I agree with you, less decisions is IMO, much better!
I am going to test this on some of my score cards from my local casino and see how it works out.
One more question: Do you still use Penthouse progression with this system?
Thanks!
Hi ILB,
I did some testing last night it won 12 of 23 shoes but on most of these shoes I only got 4 or more bets per shoe.If you get a shoe with very few bets and you are still down carry the negative balance into the next shoe so the progression has a chance to help you out.If after the shoe you are up, start over fresh.Yes, I use the Penthouse progression but if you have something else in mind go for it.Check GLC, the man on progressions.I should note playing a six deck easy baccarat so if it was 8 deck there will be more bets.Good Luck
Quote from: Dutchy on Feb 24, 06:57 PM 2015
Hi ILB,
I did some testing last night it won 12 of 23 shoes but on most of these shoes I only got 4 or more bets per shoe.If you get a shoe with very few bets and you are still down carry the negative balance into the next shoe so the progression has a chance to help you out.If after the shoe you are up, start over fresh.Yes, I use the Penthouse progression but if you have something else in mind go for it.Check GLC, the man on progressions.I should note playing a six deck easy baccarat so if it was 8 deck there will be more bets.Good Luck
Where I play they use 8 decks. I think GLC liked PH progression.
Thanks again.
dutchy,
what if you have this.
BB
PPPP
B
This is no good right? I mean the 1st 2 PP's are LL, the next 2 are WW, then the switch to B, would be a winner, but like you said, it must be the 1st two WW's?
Hello ILB,
Mark the decisions vertically and it should make things easier for you.I"LL do your previous post.
B
B
P-L
p-L
p-w
p-w(ILB,two ww- your trigger to bet against two back)
B-L(you win!)(hope that helps) :thumbsup:
ty, vertically does help!
Dutchy are you still winning with it