why is everyone still play roulette?

[Master_of_pockets]

I also don't consider my roulette research journey as a loss of time because I enjoy it and what I have learned is what the randomness is capable of doing and not doing...(acting of randomness)
i also consider the most educational thing that I learned from this game is VB...
With VB I learned how to measure 2 different rotating objects and finding out where the meeting point of them is gonna be(strike point).
The point that I can t use it to make fruits from this game because of the today wheels conditions is an other sad story.

The sad point of this journey (the studing-researching that we all do here) is that it didn t gave any fruits.
And the most sad is that me and everyone else that have studied roulette(randomness-MM) has NO DIFFERENCE when it comes in real play with a person that has NOT studied ANYTHING about the game!
Because in the end of the day WE(the ones that did huge research) and he(that didn t make any research) we have the SAME chances of winning(or I should say better on LOSING).

But here i am and still enjoying my journey ...Why I still continue researching?
Because it s filling me with hopes that maybe one day a winning system will be found.

[Drazen]

I agree 100% with drazen_cro about this!

Drazen you said :

That race track is random for 99% of you, but there are few of us for who it isnt excatly so.
But how hard and long is to get to the point where roulette stopps being random is anotery story.


Are you refaring To Marigny and in general systems with correction of events deviations?

Well yes beating roulette with deviations is one way that is maybe a bit safer then all else like some systems. But even here you need good MM to apply.

2nd thing is VB but i won't discuss this as you say VB is almost dead and that there is no way you can succeed nowadays which i  know is wrong...

3rd thing BIAS play-- maybe safest and best of all Advantage-play methods. But when you find your cow for milking after month of preparation and tracking can happen if you say something then "big egoistic  Advantage-play-s"  come and arrise flag in a few days of play (and you thought they were your friends) Becasue you live behind God-s back and they will never return there... They don't give a sh*t for you. And you could milk that cow for a decent time by yourself.

Just another life lesson

Cheers

Drazen

[Master_of_pockets]

""Well yes beating roulette with deviations is one way that is maybe a bit safer then all else like some systems. But even here you need good MM to apply.""

I also trend to agree on this but I don't know if even with this way a long run success can happen.
But I sure consider it safer than all other methods(not including Advantage-play)


""2nd thing is VB but i won't discuss this as you say VB is almost dead and that there is no way you can succeed nowadays which i  know is wrong..."""

For this I will say that I am correct and wrong at the same time.
What I mean is that I sure know that SOME opportunities are still there in finding a wheel that can provide the needing conditions to play(this is where I am wrong)....
But those nice wheels are so rare these days that the need for traveling is a MUST case...and even if by traveling a nice wheel will be found , the advantage will be tiny and not like the old days.(this is where I am correct)
And if add that when the casino management will understand that You are appling VB on a wheel ,they will imediatelly kill your game by simply telling no more bets very soon in the spin, then this is why I am 100% correct.

"""3rd thing BIAS play-- maybe safest and best of all Advantage-play methods. But when you find your cow for milking after month of preparation and tracking can happen if you say something then "big egoistic  Advantage-play-s"  come and arrise flag in a few days of play (and you thought they were your friends) Becasue you live behind God-s back and they will never return there... They don't give a sh*t for you."""

Yes i agree and we must not also forget that If and when casino will spot that someone is doing bias play they can change the cone position or remove the wheel and all this time and effort that was made to colect the spins to find the bias will be gone...

So Advantage-play for me is like working in coalmine and the fruits will be little.

[ego]

Well bias is intressting and i am lucky that i got a working playing model.
Thanks to Laurance Scott ...
He create a complete method that does not need defect spotting that is Snowman's speciality.

Laurance had i dialog with Thorp and from that he could conclude how to find bias wheels with out defect spotting and show when numbers are not due towards random fluctation.
So yes there still exist valid ways to explore physics.

Regarding visual ballistics so do i agree that you can not reach a big advantage with today's wheel - but still you can maintan an edge over the house.

[Drazen]

If you are VB player maybe better chances you will have in America. As Advantage-play-s there say that casinos are not in so big fear under Advantage-play because they think trying to overcome -5.26 is quite hard trick.

But on contrary there is man who has big team and they will spot and do the wheel before you blink..

Especialy if you are not silenced too much about it..

Cheers

Drazen

[Robeenhuut]

Just one thought about VB. Basically when the information flow became available due to the internet at the end of the 90's don't you think that casinos would implement countermeasures earlier if many players were able to win money on a constant basis?  Lets say i think I'm good at VB and i am able to win money for some time using it. How can you tell that its really due to my VB approach and not to just a pure luck that i can ride on using any conventional method?  Just a VB newbie question 

[F_LAT_INO]

--It seems am forced to say few words here.......any reasonable system/method
  could win for anybody,as long as he plays it propely and know what he is after.
  I don't win/lose with methods but with approach to the game.There were nights
  when I didn't top the chip,drunk my drink,walked around,and went home.
  This is one of the winning approaches.....said all.

[Ralph]

If a break through ever will come, its a short window, to exploit it. The casinos will adopt rules to meet it.

It has happen before, a few years ago the table limit at BVNZ was much higher, the same at roulette Express, they adjust due to profit went down, and a few won much.

Not long time ago they change the rules of commission for no edge play, as they lost, now it is calculated by sessions, a so much difference I went to zero wheel.

A way of do playing can never be a secret, you do not play alone, and everything is monitored on line as at landbased.

I myself thought I had a winning system, It won and won, for a time, the outcome can never be predicted.  Any bet which not lose by math, ie cover all, other  bets have a possibility to lose every spin.
Random makes such a series will come soon or later. Very late if you have luck or at my age I may not see it, as in the long run I am dead.

Many, most of them, mix up the skill in VB with luck.
Why nobody wants luck?


A Hint!
You collecting numbers in thousends, look for entropy.

[Master_of_pockets]

Just one thought about VB. Basically when the information flow became available due to the internet at the end of the 90's don't you think that casinos would implement countermeasures earlier if many players were able to win money on a constant basis?  Lets say i think I'm good at VB and i am able to win money for some time using it. How can you tell that its really due to my VB approach and not to just a pure luck that i can ride on using any conventional method?  Just a VB newbie question 

And here is ur answer.
When u are winning with VB you know WHY you are winning because you see into the wheel and you spot if the ball is hitting the DD and then fall at ur strike point preediction and then the ball makes the average jump(scatter) that u had included on ur prediction offset....

So with VB you can spot why you are winning because you can see the paramiters of the wheel happening and all those paramiters are being made with phisics .because before you play you have already spot/determined/measured the paramiters of the certain wheel.

Wile with a system we don t have any paramiters being made from anything...

[Turner]

Nice posts from MOP, Drazen, Robeen.

In the reference to my father, I was trying to get across the point that collating who is winning and who is loosing is neither here nor there. It cant be trusted to be accurate, and the same method could dive bomb the day after, so yesterdays win is more like yesterdays luck.

Turner

[Master_of_pockets]

"""I was trying to get across the point that collating who is winning and who is losing is neither here nor there. It can't be trusted to be accurate, and the same method could dive bomb the day after, so yesterdays win is more like yesterdays luck."""

I agree and this is why reability from the M and a lot of testing is required.

[Robeenhuut]

And here is your answer.
When You are winning with VB you know WHY you are winning because you see into the wheel and you spot if the ball is hitting the DD and then fall at your strike point preediction and then the ball makes the average jump(scatter) that u had included on your prediction offset....

So with VB you can spot why you are winning because you can see the paramiters of the wheel happening and all those paramiters are being made with physics .because before you play you have already spot/determined/measured the paramiters of the certain wheel.

Wile with a system we don't have any paramiters being made from anything...

Hehe  MOP

Yeah i get it. My point was that it was possible to win for a quite long time using different methods no matter what bet selection was within for example EC bet. If you are ahead using DBL or FTL at the same time which one is the right one?  For VB you think that your bet follows mechanical movement of the ball but it might coincide with betting on the hot sector. For a while at least.

[woods101]

@GLC, sorry dude for not reply to your PM, especially all the effort you have put in. After I lost money at roulette I was annoyed with myself but I have been visiting this forum but haven't been playing.

Good to see F_LAT_INO is back and everything but we discussed everything before and no system can survive in roulette. so why are we still playing and wasting our time?

I made thread about this while back:

link:://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=9158.0

so who's actually winning?

...er....don't think he's listening anyways.

[Master_of_pockets]

"""For VB you think that your bet follows mechanical movement of the ball but it might coincide with betting on the hot sector. For a while at least."""

Regarding VB there are no coincidences.
If you see that the ball after a lot of spins is hitting one or 2 Diamonds most of the time then this isn t coincidence....it s because there is a tilt.
If you see that the average scatter(of minimum 300 spins data) of the ball is e.g. +15 pockets it s not a coincidence because this jump is a result of the type+weight of the ball+the type of the frets+the speed of the rotor.(all physics stuff no guessing).

From your posts I can tell that u haven t studied VB a lot so this is why you say those things....(it s not bad...You can still learn more things although i wouldn t advice u to do it because there is noy making money with VB anymore)
It seems that you do have a little knowledge of VB but it isn t enough so that s why You are making these conclusions.

An other thing is that the PRO VB player must know/do is if in some point he observes that  the conditions changed(because for example an old lady farted close to the wheel and the barometric air pressure changed causing different ball timings and/or making the tilt lighter  ) then he immediately stops the play.
The player can identify this change because he will see in the next spins that the ball doesn't hit the DD as much as it was expected and/or because the knee point of the ball has changed or gone ot the average ball jump has changed or all together.
This is an other reason why I don't like VB...because the paramiters are very sensitive and can change because:
1)Temperature changing
2)Barometer changing
3)The hand of the dealer had a little s.hit on his finger that he spins the ball because he didn t wash his hands after he took a s.hit 

This is why I am telling you that the VB player KNOWS why he wins or why he loses....
While with the other systems you don t know when luck is gonna leave you

[Robeenhuut]

"""For VB you think that your bet follows mechanical movement of the ball but it might coincide with betting on the hot sector. For a while at least."""

Regarding VB there are no coincidences.
If you see that the ball after a lot of spins is hitting one or 2 Diamonds most of the time then this isn t coincidence....it s because there is a tilt.
If you see that the average scatter(of minimum 300 spins data) of the ball is e.g. +15 pockets it s not a coincidence because this jump is a result of the type+weight of the ball+the type of the frets+the speed of the rotor.(all physics stuff no guessing).

From your posts I can tell that u haven t studied VB a lot so this is why you say those things....(it s not bad...You can still learn more things although i wouldn t advice u to do it because there is noy making money with VB anymore)
It seems that you do have a little knowledge of VB but it isn t enough so that s why You are making these conclusions.

An other thing is that the PRO VB player must know/do is if in some point he observes that  the conditions changed(because for example an old lady farted close to the wheel and the barometric air pressure changed causing different ball timings and/or making the tilt lighter  ) then he immediately stops the play.
The player can identify this change because he will see in the next spins that the ball doesn't hit the DD as much as it was expected and/or because the knee point of the ball has changed or gone ot the average ball jump has changed or all together.
This is an other reason why I don't like VB...because the paramiters are very sensitive and can change because:
1)Temperature changing
2)Barometer changing
3)The hand of the dealer had a little s.hit on his finger that he spins the ball because he didn t wash his hands after he took a s.hit 

This is why I am telling you that the VB player KNOWS why he wins or why he loses....
While with the other systems you don't know when luck is gonna leave you

Thanks for explanation.  It sure sounds like more fun than any regular betting especially taking into consideration a hygiene level  of the dealer