This is a system i read at another place... found it in my notepad. this is a transcription, hope the author does not mind.
"Playing this way you should limit your losses in "black" days. This limit is one
third of an expected profit, I.e. if you finish the game with profit of + 50
units on good days, you have to complete game with the loss of -75 units on bad
ones. Only best use of the method described here gives you SUPER profit.
The given system consists of two interconnected parts. The first is a preliminary
part. It should bring a profit without interruption. If you lose, an additional
system comes into action. Its aim is to return the loss in a preliminary part.
Further game again begins with the first system.
The preliminary part consists
of 3 bets.
Ã,· 1-st bet - 1 unit on the last come dozen
Ã,· 2-nd bet - 3 units on the last even chance
Ã,· 3-rd bet - 12 units the ET-bet.(It covers 24 nbrs. - 9 units on even chance &
3 units on the closest 6-line, ex. 9-big & 3 on 13-18 or 9-small & 3 on 19-24)
Thus, you play the game together with bank (bank as the table). If the
first bet wins, there is a plus in two units. If there is a loss, the second bet
of three units on "small" or "large" numbers comes in. If this bet wins, there
is again plus in two units, including the first lost bet. If the second bet also
loses, we use the ET-bet, 9 units of it are put on the last appearing "small" or
"large" numbers and 3 units on appropriate 6-line - 13-18 (if the latter number
was " large ") and 19-24 (if the last number was "small"). If the ET-bet wins,
we return the lost by the previous bets and again benefit is plus two units.
After each winning we come back to the first bet. If zero comes on, the bet is
finished and we wait for the next spin.
After loss of all three bets, the
additional system comes in. It must get the lost 16 units back. This system is
also conducted with bank. The scheme is:
Bet
Red or Black
Even or Odd
One of the dozens
1
2
3
4
1
2
3
6
1
2
3
6
1
1
2
4
After each plus reached by one from four bets, you need to return to the initial
bet immediately. Only if there is a partial prize, which does not cover the
previous loss, the same bet is made for the second time. All these operations
need to be used as long as the lost in the first part 16 units are back. Then
the preliminary system comes in again"
Please Share your thoughts and tests with me.
thx
Al,
Thanks for posting this system.
I like the way it looks.
I have played similar systems, but this one seems a little better.
I didn't understand the recovery part of the system if you lose the 1st 16 units.
In similar systems, I have always just gone to like 2-6-24 until I won 8 times which would get back my lost units so I could start over with 1-3-12.
Could you please explain what the author calls the "additional" system?
Thanks,
George
i play the second part as it says...
place 1 chip at last black or red. if win reset.
if lost place 2 chips at last even or odd. if win reset.
if lost play 3 chips at last dozzen.
etc...
hope this clarifies
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 17, 03:01 PM 2010
Bet
Red or Black
Even or Odd
One of the dozens
1 I bet 1 unit on Red or Black. If lose, next
2 I bet 2 units on Even or Odd. If lose, next
3 I bet 3 units on a dozen. If lose, what?
4 What do we do with this number?
1 Etc....
2
3
6
1
2
3
6
1
1
2
4
After each plus reached by one from four bets, you need to return to the initial
bet immediately. Only if there is a partial prize, which does not cover the
previous loss, the same bet is made for the second time. All these operations
need to be used as long as the lost in the first part 16 units are back. Then
the preliminary system comes in again"
I have been testing it will the following method.
Since I like to keep my bets as small as possible, I have been betting 1,2 & 4-4
1 unit on the penultimate dozen.
2 units on the penultimate color
4 units on the last two dozens that hit.
If I lose all three spins, I go to 2,4 & 8-8 until I recover my lost 11 units.
If I lose at 2,4 & 8-8 I go to 4,8 & 16-16.
If I lose at 4,8 & 16-16, I take that as a loss and start over with 1,2 & 4-4.
At most I will lose 77 units, but that's only if you never win even 1 3 bet sequence.
As we all know with systems like this, there's nothing sacred about how you vary your bet amounts.
I've always wondered why you would switch to a different system to recover a loss.
Seems like if that system is so good, why not use it all the time.
Same with the original system. If it's good enough to play until a loss, why not play it to recover a loss?
So far, I haven't lost a session.
Just getting started with the testing, but I still like it.
thanks again for sharing the concept Al.
Cheers,
George
other option is play as you said, what i think it's fragile.
or even arrange other additional system.
any suggestion?
i got one respecting the mm of the second system. i will try the same progression with barracuda +1 on a Loss / +1 on a Win
with or without LW strategy?
A case of study, indeed
your post got ahead of mine...
i like your option and i also think if the syste is good why not play it over and over.
-maybe the risc of 16 chips on a loss for 2 chips profit is a bit hard, so the reason of the alternative one.
(pls consider my last post observations regarding your penultimate one)
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 17, 06:50 PM 2010
Your post got ahead of mine...
i like your option and I also think if the syste is good why not play it over and over.
-maybe the risc of 16 chips on a loss for 2 chips profit is a bit hard, so the reason of the alternative one.
(pls consider my last post observations regarding your penultimate one)
Sounds good.
I have to take a break for a while.
Check back in after some additional testing.
G
Al,
I have played 6 sessions to +20 with no losses so far.
No doubt I am being lucky, but how long can luck continue? I know, I know, it can turn and be just as bad for just as long.
Anyway, for those who want to try it:
Bet 1 unit on the 2nd to last spun dozen. This is usually the penultimate spin, but if the same dozen has hit back to back, I go back until I get the last 2 dozens that have hit and bet on the 2nd dozen.
If I win, I'm up 2 units, so start over.
If I lose, I bet 2 units on the penultimate color even if there have been 2 of the same color for the last 2 spins.
If I win, I am up 1 unit, so start over at 1 unit on the 2nd to last spun dozen.
If I lose, I bet 4 units each on the last 2 spun dozens for a total of 8 units.
If I win, I am up 1 unit, so start over at 1 unit on the 2nd to last spun dozen.
If I lose, I am down 11 units.
I increase my bets to 2,4,8&8 until I recover the 11 lost units. Then I start over at 1 unit.
If I lose 3 spins in a row, I will lose 22 units which is off-set by any units I won before I lost 3 in a row.
I play at 4,8,16&16 until I recover or until I'm -11 or less at which time I drop back to 2,4,8&8 until I recover all lost units.
At which time I reset to 1,2,4&4.
If I lose at 4,8,16&16, I consider that a lost session and start a new session at 1 unit.
Seems to be working pretty well.
George
Another more aggressive way I have been playing is:
I bet 1,2,4&4 and if I lose 3 bets, I go to 6,12,24&24.
If I win the 6 units bet on a dozen I am +1 unit so start over.
If I win the 12 unit bet or the 24&24 unit bet 2 times, I am +1 so start over.
It's a little riskier and takes a lot of guts to play this way, but the recovery is very quick.
By the way, I just won another session to 20 playing this way.
I'm still waiting to get the wind knocked out of my sails.
Al, I know you're in the twilight hours, when you get up in the AM tell me what you think.
G
;)
that's awsome so far. how long have been your sessions?
can you post a resume of games played / profits?
i think is a good way to go an a very viable system. "go with the flow" you should name it.
i play many systems with dozzens and this one is nothing new, is very similar to ones from Hermes, Atlantis, Kattila.
figures for DC, 4x4, etc... still worth a shot. i didnÃ,´t get if thats the emergency plan or the main system itself
keepin' it up mate :thumbsup:
I have a good feeling about this one!! ;D
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 17, 10:40 PM 2010
;)
that's awsome so far. how long have been your sessions?
can you post a resume of games played / profits?
i think is a good way to go an a very viable system. "go with the flow" you should name it.
i play many systems with dozzens and this one is nothing new, is very similar to ones from Hermes, Atlantis, Kattila.
figures for DC, 4x4, etc... still worth a shot. I didnÃ,´t get if that's the emergency plan or the main system itself
keepin' it up mate :thumbsup:
Hey Al,
I have just been playing the very aggressive method for the last 3 sessions.
That's 1,2,4&4 if lose then 6,12,24&24. Recovers after only 1 or 2-4 spins.
My sessions are very quick. Usually not more than about 30-50 spins. Pretty short sessions for 20 units.
I know it can easily lose, but so far it hasn't.
I think that I'll start playing 1,2,4&4 with no recovery adjustment. Just play 1,2,4&4 until up like 10 or 15 units just to see how well it performs with no progression.
This will tell us a lot about it's staying power.
I keep trying to figure out why it wins. Since I can't, I'm thinking it may just be a very lucky series of sessions.
I hate to be negative, but how many of these systems start out great only to have reality hit home with a vengeance.
We'll see.
George
Quote from: GLC on Oct 17, 11:52 PM 2010
I hate to be negative, but how many of these systems start out great only to have reality hit home with a vengeance.
We'll see.
George
i think that's what money management can alter in your favour.
with a good stop-loss no big harm can be done. also your progression is great. I would stick to the safer one (must try start playing 1,2,4&4 with no recovery adjustment) and maybe try to explore it's streaky side.
Post results soon
test
Casino Spielbank Wiesbaden 11.10.2010; Table 9
|
Spin
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
| Num
0
36
27
28
25
30
9
34
23
20
25
28
34
35
12
26
30
22
13
13
8
29
18
0
28
11
36
16
14
17
| Dozzen
0
3
3
3
3
3
1
3
2
2
3
3
3
3
1
3
3
2
2
2
1
3
2
0
3
2
3
2
2
2
| Bet
1
2
1
2
1
2
1
2
4
1
1
1
1
2
4
1
2
1
1
2
1
2
4
1
2
4
1
| Balance
500
502
500
502
504
503
505
504
502
506
508
510
512
511
509
513
512
514
516
515
517
516
514
518
517
515
519
521
521
521
|
we would have continue this winning streak, but money management says to call it a winning session and start over.
i used last coming instead of penultimate (easier 4 me)
Keep them coming :thumbsup:
Another quick session:
Spin Bet W/L Total
B8 NB
R32 NB
R14 1/1 -1 -1
0 2/R -2 -3
R36 4/2-3 +4 +1
B31 1/2 -1 0
B10 2/R -2 -2
R21 4/1-3 -8 -10
B2 6/1 +12 +2
R19 1/2 +2 +4
B22 1/1 -1 +3
R30 2/R +2 +5
B10 1/2 -1 +4
B33 2/R -2 +2
R21 4/1-3 -8 -6
R19 6/3 -6 -12
B4 12/R -12 -24
R18 24/1-2+24 0
B4 6/1 +12 +12
R19 1/2 +2 +14
R18 1/1 -1 +13
B11 2/R -2 +11
0 4/1-2 -8 +3
R27 6/2 -6 -3
B15 12/B +12 +9
B20 3/3 -3 +6
B26 9/B +9 +12
B22 1/2 +2 +14
R5 1/3 -1 +13
B26 2/B +2 +15
R14 1/1 -1 +14
B22 2/B +2 +16
B13 1/2 +2 +18
I thought this was a +20 session.
I usually reset after +1 or more and add up the pluses.
I thought it would be easier to see my total this way, but it looks like I quit playing a little too soon.
1/2 = 1 unit bet on the 2nd dozen
2/R = 2 units bet on Red
4/1-3 = 4 units bet on both 1st dozen and 3rd dozen.
That should give you all you need to understand my bets
You'll notice that when the B20 hit I had bet only 3 units on the 3rd dozen. I did this because I only needed to win 4 to be in the plus. I normally would have bet 6 units on the 3rd dozen, but I didn't want to risk any more units than necessary.
A couple of close calls. But still no losing sessions.
For real money, I would go to 2,4,8&8 to recover rather than 6,12,24&24. But I just felt lucky tonight, so go for it.
George
wish you the best of luck friend. ;-)
:thumbsup:
To anyone else who's interested.
Another session
51 spins
+20 ;D
a couple of 11 unit losses 8)
went to 3,6,12&12 to recover
whenever I lose to zero, I take the loss and replay that bet unless it's a bet on the 2 dozens.
then I go into recover mode.
So far I have never lost 2 sessions in a row and I have always had 2 or more wins between losses. ;D
with that in mind, I think it would be pretty safe to bet 6,12,24&24 after an 11 unit loss.
If you hit the 6 unit bet on a dozen, you have recovered all 11 lost units +1.
If you lose the 6 units you are down 17 units and a hit on the 12 units on a color makes you only down 5. A loss on the 12 units on a color makes you down 29 and a hit on the 24 units on 2 dozens puts you back at -5.
Play 6,12,24&24 again because 1 more hit and you are up and can restart. :thumbsup:
Yes, occassionally you will probably have a loss at the 6,12,24&24 level, but I think that you will be way ahead with a little luck. :)
As with all these systems, test, test, test, and be convinced in your own mind before betting hard earned cash.
Remember, no matter how well a system tests, this is still gambling and anything can happen. ???
Good Luck, :lol:
George
Another won session.
+21 units
30 spins
1 ea 11 unit loss
recovered with 2 wins at 6,12,24&24.
Bet selection. For the 1 unit bet, bet on the 2nd oldest dozen.
If lose, bet 2 units on the penultimate color even if the last 2 spins are the same color.
If lose, bet 4 units each on the last 2 dozens to hit.
Anytime you win, go back to betting 1 unit on the 2nd oldest dozen. ( If a dozen has repeated for 1 or 2 times, this 2nd oldest dozen could be as far as 3 or 4 spins back.
Other than possibly luck, the reason I think this is working is that there is a lot of randomness involved in the bet selections.
Also, the odds of winning each bet increases as we progress through the 3 bet sequence.
The 1st bet has a 12 in 37 chance of winning.
The 2Nd bet has an 18 in 37 chance of winning.
The 3rd bet has a 24 in 37 chance of winning.
I suppose if we wanted we could go to 5 Dbl Streets for a 30 in 37 chance of winning.
Cheers,
George
Just played a quick session using a 4th stage of 12 units on each of 5 dbl streets. Omit the last Dbl street to hit and bet on the other 5.
win +20
Spins about 30
3 each 11 unit losses
recovered all 3 times with the 12 units on 5 dbl st bet
George
2 more sessions.
+21 & +30
I think I like this method:
Bet 1 on the second to last dozen to spin.
If lose, 2 units on the penultimate color.
If lose, 4 units each on the last 2 doz.
If lose, 12 units on 5 dbl sts. Leave open the last dbl st to hit.
In order to lose, you have to be so unlucky as to pick the exact time out of 10-20 spins when a dbl street is going to repeat.
It will happen, but so far I've been lucky enough to dodge the bullit.
If I lose, I don't increase my bets. I just take the 71 unit loss and keep on truckin'.
So far I am up +318 units with no losses.
Is anyone else trying this or is it a little too risky?
George
PS. Thanks Alberto for starting this topic.
very welcome,
the merit is all yours, as you made your own tweaks
keep it real!
:thumbsup:
Newest session:
B4 No bet
0 No bet
R21 1 unit on 1st dozen -1
B6 2 units on Black +1 restart +1
B20 1 unit on 2nd doz +2 restart +3
R23 1 unit on 1 doz -1
B6 2 units on B +1 restart +4
R23 1 unit on 2 doz +2 restart +6
R1 1 u on 1 doz +2 restart +8
R12 1 u on 2 doz -1
R3 2 u on Red +1 restart +9
B15 1 u on 1 doz -1
R1 2 u on Red +1 restart +10
R3 1 u on 2 doz -1
R36 2 u on Red +1 restart +11
R5 1 u on 1 doz +2 restart +13
R16 1 u on 3 doz -1
B22 2 u on Red -3
B33 4 u on doz 1&2 -11
B22 12 u on D.S. 1-5 +1 restart +14
B28 1 u on 3 doz +2 restart +16
B24 1 u on 2 doz +2 restart +18
R27 1 u on 3 doz +2 restart +20
R3 1 u on 2 doz -1
B8 2 u on Red -3
R34 4 u on doz 1&3 +1 restart +21
This was a very easy session. The easiest yet.
Thought I would show you exactly how I paly.
George
Interesting. I'll be testing this tomorrow and report my results.
Hey guys,
Sorry about my last post.
I tried to use a "u" for an abreviated unit and the system interpreted it as 'you'.
So, anywhere you see a 'you' in the chart, it represents the word unit(s).
Cheers.
One more session. a very hard fought session. Ist four units won I had to go to the 4th step each time. Fortunately, they all won.
+20 in 46 spins.
Ok, I just did a quick test for 57 spins. It started really rough, then went smooth.
Profit +23
Highest bet 8:8
Drawdown -36
Very nice system. I have a feeling i'll be using this one on real play. But i'll do more tests.
By the way, I used your first suggestion, George.
Thanks Alberto
why do you use penultimate instead of last?
if use last you take advantage from streaks on dozzens...
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 20, 05:47 AM 2010
Why do you use penultimate instead of last?
if use last you take advantage from streaks on dozzens...
No real reason for penultimate.
Streaks are good and even chops or if you like you could always bet the same color.
Except on the 5 dbl streets. It feels like it's harder to lose if you're betting a dbl street won't hit 2 times in a row.
I don't know if the math supports that, just feels that way.
George
I tested two sessions using spins in the Zumma roulette tester book (double zero wheel). Both were easy sessions. I used the 1-2-4-6-12-24 progression. 12 was my higest bet in the first session and 6 was my highest bet in the second session. Allan Wilson said in his book "The Casino Gambler Guide" the acid test for a system was to double your bankroll 3 times so you end up with 8 times the bankroll you started with.
Session 1 +23 units
Session 2 +20 units
Session 3 +21 units highest bet 24+24 (48 units)
102 real live spins with double zero
Profit +42
Drawdown -36
Highest bet 8:8
I used the 1,2,4 - 2,4,8 - 4,8,16 progression
Spin No LastDoz - B4Last RB - Last2Dozs - BAL
1 13
2 9 -1 -1
3 22 2 1
4 32 -1 0
5 2 2 2
6 6 2 4
7 13 -1 3
8 6 2 5
9 21 -1 4
10 18 -2 2
11 15 4 6
12 24 2 8
13 18 2 10
14 21 2 12
15 32 -1 11
16 9 2 13
17 34 -1 12
18 3 2 14
19 32 -1 13
20 5 2 15
21 26 -1 14
22 19 2 16
23 31 -1 15
24 2 -2 13
25 6 4 17
26 3 -1 16
27 9 -2 14
28 1 4 18
29 29 -1 17
30 5 2 19
31 18 -1 18
32 19 2 20
33 26 -1 19
34 30 2 21
35 00 -1 20
36 31 2 22
37 17 -1 21
38 26 2 23
39 20 -1 22
40 17 2 24
41 30 -1 23
42 22 2 25
43 14 2 27
44 29 -1 26
45 25 2 28
46 12 -1 27
47 3 2 29
48 22 -1 28
49 8 -2 26
50 14 4 30
51 30 -1 29
52 26 -2 27
53 5 -8 19
54 32 -2 2nd Level 17
55 26 -4 13
56 21 -16 -3
57 12 -4 3rd level -7
58 36 8 1
59 11 -4 -3
60 1 8 5
61 00 -4 1
62 28 8 9
63 36 8 17
64 24 -4 13
65 27 8 21
66 32 8 29
67 27 4 2nd level 33
68 11 -1 1st level 32
69 5 2 34
70 25 -1 33
71 22 -2 31
72 4 -8 23
73 11 4 2nd level 27
74 34 -2 25
75 25 -4 21
76 27 8 29
77 25 4 33
78 0 -2 31
79 21 4 35
80 22 2 1st level 37
81 33 -1 36
82 19 -2 34
83 32 4 38
84 3 -1 37
85 14 2 39
86 7 -1 38
87 33 -2 36
88 31 4 40
89 11 -1 39
90 23 -2 37
91 28 -8 29
92 24 -2 2nd level 27
93 4 4 31
94 31 -2 29
95 4 4 33
96 30 -2 31
97 13 4 35
98 34 -2 33
99 10 4 37
100 12 4 41
101 33 -1 1st level 40
102 18 2 42
Probaby one of the best systems around :)
Session 4 +23 units. Highest bet 4+4 (8 units).
Quote from: Carsch on Oct 20, 02:24 PM 2010
Probaby one of the best systems around :)
Let's hope it continues to deliver.
I'm having trouble understanding your bet sequence.
It's a little different from mine.
Can you please explain.
Thanks,
George
Quote from: dennisbelle on Oct 20, 01:42 PM 2010
I tested two sessions using spins in the Zumma roulette tester book (double zero wheel). Both were easy sessions. I used the 1-2-4-6-12-24 progression. 12 was my higest bet in the first session and 6 was my highest bet in the second session. Allan Wilson said in his book "The Casino Gambler Guide" the acid test for a system was to double your bankroll 3 times so you end up with 8 times the bankroll you started with.
Session 1 +23 units
Session 2 +20 units
Dennis,
You are using a different progression also.
Can you please explain how you're playing.
You seem to be winning at about the same rate I am but I don't recognize your progression.
Mine's a little steep, but so far it's been holding strong.
George
GLC,
I didn't explain the progression very well. I am playing the progression you suggested in post #16. I will paste the info below.
So far I have never lost 2 sessions in a row and I have always had 2 or more wins between losses.
with that in mind, I think it would be pretty safe to bet 6,12,24&24 after an 11 unit loss.
If you hit the 6 unit bet on a dozen, you have recovered all 11 lost units +1.
If you lose the 6 units you are down 17 units and a hit on the 12 units on a color makes you only down 5. A loss on the 12 units on a color makes you down 29 and a hit on the 24 units on 2 dozens puts you back at -5.
Play 6,12,24&24 again because 1 more hit and you are up and can restart.
Yes, occassionally you will probably have a loss at the 6,12,24&24 level, but I think that you will be way ahead with a little luck
Thanks Dennisbelle,
I think the progression from #16 is a medium risk progression.
It recovers quickly after an 11 unit loss and has very low risk of losing.
Our only question is, Can wins stay ahead of losses enough to make this a viable system to play over the long haul.
I don't mean for hours at a time, but a few hit n run sessions each day or week.
We can limit exposure by playing either to a win target or a certain number of spins.
I'm thinking about Fender1000's system THE ZONE and how he suggested a win target of 5 units a couple of times each day recognizing that there will be days when you have a major loss.
If we are to believe him, he stated that he won so much with his hit n run method that the losses were not much more than a bump in the road.
I can't decide if the best way to play isn't a 3 step progression such as 1,2,4&4, then 6,12,24&24 then 12,24,48&48.
If you lost all three bets with no wins you would lose 209 units. But how often are you going to lose that many times without recovering back to 1,2,4&4.
At my current win target of +20 units, I would have to win at well over11 times for each major loss.
I also like my 4 bet method of 1) 1 2) 2 3) 4&4 4) 12,12,12,12&12 for a risk of 71 units.
The thing I like about the 4 step approach is that I think it may be harder to lose the 4 step approach 3 times for a 213 unit loss.
Testing is the name of the game right now.
Still too early for any final decisions regarding the best way to play.
Thanks for your help,
George
Finally had my first losing session.
After winning so many sessions you start thinking that you're never going to lose.
Was up 15 units at the loss so only actually lost 56 units.
Still up over 300 units.
Maybe the 1;2;4&4; 12 on 5 DS is a little too much like a martingale.
I think that I'll include testing the 1,2,4&4 then 2,4,8&8 then 4,8,16&16 progression in conjunction with my 4 bet progression. Just to see which one I'm most comfortable with.
Another option I'm going to try is 1,2,4&4 then 6,12,24&24 then 12,24,48&48.
Keep going,
George
PS. An add-on to the above post.
I just finished another session to +20. Pretty easy session.
I never had to bet past the 1st 3-bet progression.
George,
Regarding your loss, if you were using the 1-2-4,4 then 6-12-24,24 progression would you still have lost that sequence?
More results
Session 5 +23
Session 6 +28
Session 7 +23
Session 8 +15
All of these sessions are around 30 spins. Some times I go over 30 spins to complete the progression.
Session 9 +22
Session 10 +16
Session 11 +13
Session 12 +19
Quote from: dennisbelle on Oct 21, 09:21 AM 2010
George,
Regarding your loss, if you were using the 1-2-4,4 then 6-12-24,24 progression would you still have lost that sequence?
Dennisbelle,
No! If I had used the system you're playing, I would have recovered.
Excellent results you're having.
Maybe you've found the correct progression.
Good testing!
George
Quote from: GLC on Oct 20, 11:51 PM 2010
Thanks Dennisbelle,
I think the progression from #16 is a medium risk progression.
It recovers quickly after an 11 unit loss and has very low risk of losing.
Our only question is, Can wins stay ahead of losses enough to make this a viable system to play over the long haul.
I don't mean for hours at a time, but a few hit n run sessions each day or week.
We can limit exposure by playing either to a win target or a certain number of spins.
I'm thinking about Fender1000's system THE ZONE and how he suggested a win target of 5 units a couple of times each day recognizing that there will be days when you have a major loss.
If we are to believe him, he stated that he won so much with his hit n run method that the losses were not much more than a bump in the road.
I can't decide if the best way to play isn't a 3 step progression such as 1,2,4&4, then 6,12,24&24 then 12,24,48&48.
If you lost all three bets with no wins you would lose 209 units. But how often are you going to lose that many times without recovering back to 1,2,4&4.
At my current win target of +20 units, I would have to win at well over11 times for each major loss.
I also like my 4 bet method of 1) 1 2) 2 3) 4&4 4) 12,12,12,12&12 for a risk of 71 units.
The thing I like about the 4 step approach is that I think it may be harder to lose the 4 step approach 3 times for a 213 unit loss.
Testing is the name of the game right now.
Still too early for any final decisions regarding the best way to play.
Thanks for your help,
George
I would like to confirm to you all that Fender's Zone was a WHOLE LOAD OF of not so much value!! I know, I tested it for a few months, it just fails in the end like the others. What makes it even more infuriating is that you take weeks and weeks to build up a bankroll, winning 4-5 units a day, only to lose it all in one session. Sure this is a classic scenario, but it's not so bad when you've built up the bankroll quickly. It was painful some days to win just 4 units, all the waiting and the drawdowns... :(
May we arrive on a steady progression?
Maybe it is now time to build the system, if you agree George, you could post it on Full Systems section.
Cheers
George,
The progression you are testing is doing quite well even with the loss. I could easily have a progression loss at any time. Several times I have went to my last bet in the series but was fortunate to win each time. You have tested more sessions than I have at this point so we just need to forge ahead some more. At present I am up a little more than 240 units. If I can make to to 1000 units that would be a milestone (for me). I am encourged by these results but I have been in this position before only to have failure later on so I tend not to get to excited by initial results. :)
Quote from: Side B on Oct 21, 02:40 PM 2010
I would like to confirm to you all that Fender's Zone was a WHOLE LOAD OF of not so much value!! I know, I tested it for a few months, it just fails in the end like the others. What makes it even more infuriating is that you take weeks and weeks to build up a bankroll, winning 4-5 units a day, only to lose it all in one session. Sure this is a classic scenario, but it's not so bad when you've built up the bankroll quickly. It was painful some days to win just 4 units, all the waiting and the drawdowns... :(
Side B,
Thanks for the update on THE ZONE. I did some preliminary testing with it and as is expected, had many small wins, but I too hit a major loss which put me in the hole so I went on to other things.
I wasn't sure, but suspected that in the end it was to difficult to stay ahead.
Thanks for your input. It settles it for me from someone who invested a lot of time testing to give a valid report.
The Phoenix system may wind up in the same pile as THE ZONE. I hope not, but we're after the truth about any system so we don't get hurt playing for real money.
That's why it's important that as many as are interested do some tests and post a summary of each session.
Cheers,
George
Quote from: dennisbelle on Oct 21, 04:55 PM 2010
George,
The progression you are testing is doing quite well even with the loss. I could easily have a progression loss at any time. Several times I have went to my last bet in the series but was fortunate to win each time. You have tested more sessions than I have at this point so we just need to forge ahead some more. At present I am up a little more than 240 units. If I can make to to 1000 units that would be a milestone (for me). I am encouraged by these results but I have been in this position before only to have failure later on so I tend not to get to excited by initial results. :)
Dennisbelle,
I agree 1000%. Steady as she goes, mate.
We've all been here before with a promising system which is doing quite well only to have it come to a screeching halt.
I think, as of right now, that the 1,2,4&4 then 6,12,24&24 is a little safer than 1,2,4&4,12 on 5 dbl sts. I have lost twice now on the 5 dble sts bet and so am losing confidence in it.
I think the chance of losing at 1,2,4 then 6,12,24 is a little less and therefore safer.
It will happen. Like you said, you have won numerous times on the 24 units bets and you technically should lose once (not counting the zero) every 3 times this bet is made.
There's a sense in which this is like a mixed martingale. And we know that you can win for a long time on a 6 or 8 step martingale before hitting the losing streak.
I am still up close to 300 units, so together we are up over 500 units. Let's both see if we can reach +1000 units. If we do, it won't be absolute proof, but it will be enough for me to formulate a strategy to start playing this for real money.
I think we should agree on both bet selection and bet progression we are using so when we reach a final conclusion it will be based on concrete stats.
I will PM you with my exact play method. You do the same, and we'll post for all to see and test with us if they wish.
Alberto,
What do you think. If dennisbelle and I reach +1000 units profit, we can then post this as a full system with all the rules and bet progression clearly spelled out.
Thanks guys,
George
Quote from: Side B on Oct 21, 02:40 PM 2010
I would like to confirm to you all that Fender's Zone was a WHOLE LOAD OF of not so much value!! I know, I tested it for a few months, it just fails in the end like the others. What makes it even more infuriating is that you take weeks and weeks to build up a bankroll, winning 4-5 units a day, only to lose it all in one session. Sure this is a classic scenario, but it's not so bad when you've built up the bankroll quickly. It was painful some days to win just 4 units, all the waiting and the drawdowns... :(
Er... how weird, I can't believe the word ru b b i s h got censored, how was that first sentence meant to make sense?
Quote from: GLC on Oct 21, 05:12 PM 2010
Side B,
Thanks for the update on THE ZONE. I did some preliminary testing with it and as is expected, had many small wins, but I too hit a major loss which put me in the hole so I went on to other things.
I wasn't sure, but suspected that in the end it was to difficult to stay ahead.
Thanks for your input. It settles it for me from someone who invested a lot of time testing to give a valid report.
The Phoenix system may wind up in the same pile as THE ZONE. I hope not, but we're after the truth about any system so we don't get hurt playing for real money.
That's why it's important that as many as are interested do some tests and post a summary of each session.
Cheers,
George
I can, very easily, mathematically prove that the Zone does not and cannot work. It's a shame because it was a promising system but in the end it's a sham. Interestingly, Fender hasn't shown his face for several months now, I wonder why...
Absolutely YES George, we should just do post a defenitive version of it.
no strings atached if anything is wrong we can always come back and remix and give it another shot.
i will test it too with the following rulles wich I hope are the same used by you and dennisbelle.
progression
1
2
4/4
on loss
6
12
24-24
till in proffit~~
play
before last dozzen
before last colour
last 2 dozzens
post results soon
8)
First test +25
Second test +25
Third test +26
All tests made at the same session
sessions attached
:wink:
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 21, 07:35 PM 2010
Absolutely YES George, we should just do post a definitive version of it.
no strings attached if anything is wrong we can always come back and remix and give it another shot.
i will test it too with the following rules which I hope are the same used by you and dennisbelle.
progression
1
2
4/4
on loss
6
12
24-24
till in proffit~~
play
before last dozzen
before last colour
last 2 dozzens
post results soon
8)
Good Al,
I will play the exact same way.
Something else to decide. What to do when a zero hits.
If a zero hits on the 1 or 2 bet I just take the loss and start over at 1. If zero hits when I'm betting 4&4, I take the loss and go on to 6,12 etc...
If you like dealing with the zero some other way, I'm all ears.
When I lose a 24 bet on 2 dozens, I take that as a lost session. We could just go back to 1,2 etc... and try to recover back to even which would be a pretty good feeling to be down 50 or 60 units and then get back to even.
I guess in the long run it doesn't matter if you recover during that session or in the next 2 or 3 sessions, as long as you eventually recover.
I have been playing on Bevoyager's demo mode single Zero wheel and not keeping track of all the spins. Just the final outcome.
A session goes pretty fast and you don't need pen and paper.
I think I will go to the archived spins from Weisbaden that are available at win-maxx for my tests. That way anyone can check to verify our results if they want to.
Sorry about my long posts. My wife gives me a hard time about rattling on and on also.
Old habits die hard.
Regards,
George
dear George,
first of all your posts are very well written, not long, very complete.
you are also a very reliable member, i always count on you.
having said that...
when zero strikes for me i count it as a loss as you can see in my attached sessions above.
it works for me, everything goes on as other number had hit.
Best Regards,
Al
4th test (hard one)- +25
5th +25
6th +25
7th +30
+21
Easy one.
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 21, 09:18 PM 2010
4th test (hard one)- +25 Yes, my friend. One of the hardest fought sessions I have seen that didn't include a loss at 24&24. But it still won! :)
5th +25
6th +25
had my first loosing session
8th session -69
i lost at the second progression (-77) so i call it End Session.
it had nothing to do with zero neither was the second 6-12-24/24
at this last case what should we do ?
when we win the secon progression once should we get back to 1-2-4/4 despite we are not even yet?
;D
did it again
9th session +25
this is my win target, a third from stoploss.
Should i make it 2/3? Like 50?
will try it.
8)
Quote from: GLC on Oct 20, 04:19 PM 2010
Let's hope it continues to deliver.
I'm having trouble understanding your bet sequence.
It's a little different from mine.
Can you please explain.
Thanks,
George
I bet on the last Doz
I lose and bet on R/B before last spin.
I lose and bet on the two last Dozens
Quote from: Carsch on Oct 21, 10:12 PM 2010
I bet on the last Doz
I lose and bet on R/B before last spin.
I lose and bet on the two last Dozens
we (me & George) are testing the following way:
1bet on the before last dozzen
2nd bet on the before last colour
3rd bet on the last two dozzens
progressions:
1
2
4/4
6
12
24/24
Cheers,
AL
It seems we're getting about the same results, though. Hmm, i might have to check the results with the different progressions.
10th session +50
Until now
10 sessions 9 won
net +187 units
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 21, 09:58 PM 2010
Had my first losing session
8th session -69
i lost at the second progression (-77) so I call it End Session.
it had nothing to do with zero neither was the second 6-12-24/24
at this last case what should we do ?
when we win the secon progression once should we get back to 1-2-4/4 despite we are not even yet?
Al, Whenever I lose at 6,12,24&24 I either end that session with a loss or I have been thinking about reseting back to 1 and continuing to play long enough to maybe recover my loss and break even.
You said "neither was the second 6-12-24/24".
Does that mean that if you lose on 24/24 you play it a second time. I never play it a second time unless I win at 12 or 24/24, then I play it a second time to so I'm at +1.
I think that I may go back over some of your sessions and see how you would have done if you flatbet, in other words only played at 1-2-4/4.
If we can come out ahead playing that way, it will mean that we can just increase our bet size and never have to deal with really big losses.
Thanks for taking the time to detail your sessions.
LoL,
George
PS I'm at +314 counting 2 losses. They were both using a little different bet progression than we're using now. If I had been betting per now, 1 would have lost and 1 would have won. I know these results are a little tainted, but I think I'll continue with our exact method of play rather than start over. If I win another 700 units this way, I'll be pretty excited.
PSS. I just looked at a couple of session to see how a flatbet would fair and it doesn't look like this is workable with a flatbet. Maybe with a pure flatbet:1-1-1/1.
i will carry on strictly as our method is at the moment. letting it mature.
our rulles are exactly the same. if i loose 2nd prog, session over.
Cheers,
AL
I just tried 100 spins, but did something different.
I went
1 on Last R/B
2 on Last R/B
4 on each of Last 2 Dozens
Profit: +48
Highest bet: 8
Progression: 1, 2, 4:4 - 2, 4, 8:8 - 4, 8, 16:16
I had done a comparison test before with one of my previous sessions (100 spins) using the method you guys are using and the one above. I did get the same results using both methods.
The thing is; if I do not use a Doz as my first bet, but use an ECs bet, I seem to average more hits on the first bet. Though my profits will build up slower, in the long run, it might just come to about the same thing. I'd have to do more tests, though, comparing both to really see the differences involved.
Yet, an advantage playing this way, so it seems, is that if you average more hits on the first bet, you're taking less risk, thus less changes of going into the higher bets.
Quote from: Carsch on Oct 22, 03:20 AM 2010
I just tried 100 spins, but did something different.
I went
1 on Last R/B
2 on Last R/B
4 on each of Last 2 Dozens
Profit: +48
Highest bet: 8
Progression: 1, 2, 4:4 - 2, 4, 8:8 - 4, 8, 16:16
I had done a comparison test before with one of my previous sessions (100 spins) using the method you guys are using and the one above. I did get the same results using both methods.
The thing is; if I do not use a Doz as my first bet, but use an ECs bet, I seem to average more hits on the first bet. Though my profits will build up slower, in the long run, it might just come to about the same thing. I'd have to do more tests, though, comparing both to really see the differences involved.
Yet, an advantage playing this way, so it seems, is that if you average more hits on the first bet, you're taking less risk, thus less changes of going into the higher bets.
Thanks for your input.
I understand what you're saying.
It makes a lot of sense. Worth looking into for sure.
I'll check it against some of Al's posted sessions and see how they turn out.
Especially the session he lost on.
Busy at work for now.
Later,
George
Session 13 -66
Session 14 -64
Session 15 +16
Session 16 +15
After a loss I continue to play the session out to around 30 spins (some times I have to go over 30 spins to complete a progression)
Quote from: dennisbelle on Oct 22, 12:17 PM 2010
Session 13 -66
Session 14 -64
Session 15 +16
Session 16 +15
After a loss I continue to play the session out to around 30 spins (some times I have to go over 30 spins to complete a progression)
Thanks for posting your results.
The 2 losses are to be expected. It may not make any difference in the long run, but whenever I lose at 6-12-24/24, I continue beyond the 30 spin barrier and try to recover back to even if possible.
It looks like you are up 147 units in 16 sessions which is around 500 spins which results in about 0.3 units per spin win rate. Not great, but not horrible either. If it doesn't stay around .3 units/spin, it may not be good enough for a confident system.
I have been looking at betting a 6 step bet: 1-2-4/4-6-18-36/36.
My reasoning is that in order to lose we must lose 2 sequences back to back which I think has a less chance of happening than to lose a 6-12-24/24 before winning 2 times to recover a 1-2-4/4 loss.
I may be wrong, to test it all we have to do is look at a losing sequence and see how many of them had a win between to 2 progressions. In other words, we may save a loss every now and then. Because we will lose 103 units instead of 77, it may not put us ahead overall.
Also, Carlo's tweak on the 1st bet may be a positive move.
Keep on Truckin'
George
I tested another 100 spins, this time i did it with both, the one with my tweak and the other the way you guys have been doing it, except that i'm still using the old progression (1,2,4:4 - 2,4,8:8 - 4,8,16:16 - 8, 16, 32:32). I said to myself i'd keep using this progression till it busts, and it did this time. But i'll keep using it with my new tweak and see where it will take me.
Quote from: Carsch on Oct 22, 08:48 PM 2010
I tested another 100 spins, this time I did it with both, the one with my tweak and the other the way you guys have been doing it, except that i'm still using the old progression (1,2,4:4 - 2,4,8:8 - 4,8,16:16 - 8, 16, 32:32). I said to myself i'd keep using this progression till it busts, and it did this time. But i'll keep using it with my new tweak and see where it will take me.
Carlo,
Thanks for the post.
Excellent test.
One thing I would like to point out is that your new tweak never lost 6 times in a row.
Had you been betting with the 6 step progression 1-2-4/4-6-18-36/36, you would have won 51 units. The 6 losses after you ended would not have happened because spin #109 should be a win instead of a loss.
So, based on this test alone, your new tweak is better although it wins at a much slower pace.
I haven't checked to see how you would have done had you used the 1-2-4/4 then 6-12-24/24 bet progression. I'm pretty sure it would have fared better.
Let's keep testing.
We know it will lose, the question is How often?
George
+20 easy session
+334 units up overall
Cheers
Quote from: GLC on Oct 22, 09:22 PM 2010So, based on this test alone, your new tweak is better although it wins at a much slower pace.
I can't say it's better - not yet. I'll have to keep testing to find out. :)
Hi guys , I hope you still up with this method. :thumbsup:
This is a similar idea :
Start and track the streets, and the Ec s, than bet :
A.
if lose if win
1. 1unit on one EC, but wait RBR bet R, or BRB bet B -1 +1
2. 1 unit on the penultimate dozen -2 +1
3. 1unit on the last 8 streets -10 +2
4. 6 units on the last 10 streets -70 +2
Can be maybe safer if before steep 3 wait a virtual w than bet on the last
8 streets, and before steep 4 wait a virtual w than bet the last 10 streets.
...
Or
B.
1. 1 unit on one EC, but wait RBR bet R, or BRB bet B -1 +1
2. 0,50 x 8 last streets -5 +1
3. 2 x 10 last streets -35 +1
Again wait a virtual w before step 2 and step 3
Just ideas ..............
Cheers.
Quote from: Carsch on Oct 22, 11:58 PM 2010
I can't say it's better - not yet. I'll have to keep testing to find out. :)
The one thing that I did notice in your side by side test is that you are using a double zero wheel and the extra zero definitely adds a greater degree of difficulty.
I have been testing on single zero only.
If you can stay ahead on a double zero wheel, it'll mean an easier game on a single zero.
G
Oh yeah, +20 each on another 2 sessions.
33 spins and 28 spins.
Up +374 units.
Bet 24/24 twice but hit both in 1st session. That means I'm due for a loss. :(
On my second session, I bet 24/24 once and won. ;D
This is ugly
Session 17 -64
Session 18 -63
Session 19 -67
Session 20 +20
This will be my last test with this configuration
Quote from: dennisbelle on Oct 23, 08:34 PM 2010
This is ugly
Session 17 -64
Session 18 -63
Session 19 -67
Session 20 +20
This will be my last test with this configuration
That is ugly. :o
I'm a little disappointed but not really that surprised. :-\
I will continue to test. I expect to have more loses, but you have had 5 losing sessions in the last 8. Not encouraging at all. :'(
Just glad it wasn't with real money.
Thanks for all your help. :thumbsup:
George
My pleasure. Thanks for posting the method! ::)
Quote from: dennisbelle on Oct 23, 09:51 PM 2010
My pleasure. Thanks for posting the method! ::)
Dennis,
I hate to be so fickle, well, no I don't.
Look at my new system under full systems titled "This is the ONE!
It's easier to play and has great potential.
G
I continue to play the progression
1
2
4/4
6
12
24/24
only i play virtual and wait a loss to happen on 3 consecutive spins.
did not lost yet.
i play it in conjuntion to another method wich is:
when 2 consecutive numbers hit double street 3 or 4 (13-18 /19-24)
i bet 10 units on the contrary low/high and 5 units on 3rd/1st dozzen
example
20
24
bet 10 units low and 5 units 3rd dozzen + 1 chip at zero
Cheers
PS- Dennisbelle, to sorry for your current losses, but may i ask exactly how are you playing the system?
best regards
"Dennisbelle, to sorry for your current losses, but may I ask exactly how are you playing the system?"
I tested the same way you are playing but I played every spin.
anyone tested it the original way?
i found it was created based on kimo li cocepts...
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 26, 07:11 PM 2010
Anyone tested it the original way?
i found it was created based on kimo li cocepts...
alberto,
I do not understand the recovery part of the original way.
The 1st half of the system is pretty straight forward, but if you lose the 16 units he doesn't clarify how to bet the even chances and dozens.
How do you understand it?
George
Quote from: GLC on Oct 26, 08:29 PM 2010
alberto,
I do not understand the recovery part of the original way.
The 1st half of the system is pretty straight forward, but if you lose the 16 units he doesn't clarify how to bet the even chances and dozens.
How do you understand it?
George
i play it this way
1 chip on Red
always if win reset
if loss 2 chips on even
if loss 3 chips on dozzen
if loss (6-)
4 chips on red - here if win same bet again
etc...
I will post an example
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 26, 10:11 PM 2010
i play it this way
1 chip on Red
always if win reset
if loss 2 chips on even
if loss 3 chips on dozzen
if loss (6-)
4 chips on red - here if win same bet again
etc...
I will post an example
Alberto,
Thanks for your explanation and example of the 2nd part.
I can't help thinking that if the 2nd part is so good that it's used to recover a loss from the 1st part, why not use the 2nd part all the time.
Your spreadsheet looks like a pretty effective system.
It might be the better of the 2 methods.
What do you think?
George
it is slower in profit. and maybe the conditions are bond to happen for the second, if first one fails...
have to test it more extensively
cheers
Quote from: albertojonas on Oct 27, 03:33 AM 2010
It is slower in profit. and maybe the conditions are bond to happen for the second, if first one fails...
have to test it more extensively
cheers
Excellent point Al. I wonder if this recovery method might work with some of our tweaked progressions.
If I understand what you mean, you're saying if the spins are such that they cause you to lose playing the 1st way, then those spins may be just bad enough that they are good for the 2nd system to win.
Let's see.
George
workkin for me.
:embarrassed:
as i said at wrong place:
781+++