enjoy
andruchi/advanced-roulette-strategy-proportional-probabilities-system.php
based on attached photo i do not see how KTF can lose btw
good grief....not seen those pages for several years.
Andruchi was a scam if I remember.
could very well be a scam
i ran across it just now
but he did have good math on that link...see attached picture above
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 09:18 PM 2016
could very well be a scam
i ran across it just now
but he did have good math on that link...see attached picture above
Maths is great in this
I spent a long time looking at the section
Probability Distribution of Unique Numbers in 10 Consecutive Spins.Tried many ideas, all very similar (but not exactly) like KTF
according to that website 8 to 10 unique numbers in 10 spins is the most common
so one would be inclined to after 5 spins or so, bet the remaining 30 numbers, then 29, then 28 etc
but then we know what happens
11
19
31
1
9
19
22
11
36
31
catastrophe
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 09:32 PM 2016
according to that website 8 to 10 unique numbers in 10 spins is the most common
so one would be inclined to after 5 spins or so, bet the remaining 30 numbers, then 29, then 28 etc
but then we know what happens
11
19
31
1
9
19
22
11
36
31
catastrophe
Remember, those averages are over many spins. Averages.
The same stats over the same large amount of spins show Red and Black hit close to 50:50
We know thats not the case in the short term.
My point was, KTF doesnt look all that unfamiliar to me. I spent ages playing with very similar.
Quotebased on attached photo i do not see how KTF can lose btw
I can explain how and why it will inevitably be a long term loser... if you really want to know. But I don't want to ruin your fun, so I won't say a word.
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 10:35 PM 2016
I can explain how and why it will inevitably be a long term loser... if you really want to know. But I don't want to ruin your fun, so I won't say a word.
...and this again becomes the issue. Even if you politely made your points, nothing but problems come from it and this should NOT be the norm. Steve said he has some new type of rules coming (soon), I'm hoping this is included. I could go a step beyond what you would post General sir. Even if this method was sound, not enough time at a real casino (real table) to lay down chips. In most cases with this, not all.
Ken
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 10:35 PM 2016
I can explain how and why it will inevitably be a long term loser... if you really want to know. But I don't want to ruin your fun, so I won't say a word.
I am curious as in finding out your knowledge about KTF. Can you explain why it will lose?
plenty of time to lay chips
celtic does it daily on airball
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 10:46 PM 2016
plenty of time to lay chips
celtic does it daily on airball
I'm not knocking air ball, just talking about the old school ballers that play at a
real casino/table/wheel/dealer/chips. If they see something is kinda working well and you need time to place bets, BAM, they spin faster. This is the world I live in.
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Mar 27, 10:50 PM 2016
I'm not knocking air ball, just talking about the old school ballers that play at a
real casino/table/wheel/dealer/chips. If they see something is kinda working well and you need time to place bets, BAM, they spin faster. This is the world I live in.
Ken
Not butting heads with you. But the point I would make is back to practice , practice and practise making bets as fast as you can.
As in every sport every one practices.
Yes. When u r winning they spin faster and give u less time to bet
Thats why i love airball
Also. The other version of ktf for repeaters would be fine on live dealer
Betting quickly enough isn't the problem.
The problem is the system won't work... for reasons which everyone should already know.
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:10 PM 2016
Betting quickly enough isn't the problem.
The problem is the system won't work... for reasons which everyone should already know.
Define "wont work" in your own words
Because notto hasnt lost yet....
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 11:13 PM 2016
Define "wont work" in your own words
Because notto hasnt lost yet....
I would rephrase that he has lost once.
Quote from: Azim on Mar 27, 11:14 PM 2016
I would rephrase that he has lost once.
Im just curious about the wont work comment
Everyones definition will be different
If notto wins 85 games and loses 1 (i believe thats what it was) then id assume he says it works
QuoteDefine "wont work" in your own words
"Won't work" = LOSE. Over time, the player will inevitably lose his entire bankroll to the casino.
The question you should be asking is,
why should it work? What is it about the system that makes it a winner? How does it change the odds?
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:17 PM 2016
The question you should be asking is, why should it work?
Betting unhits with a small win goal after 10 spins.
Maths says we have on average 20 something uniques in 37 spins
Seems decent to me
Have you read the ktf thread at all? Not poking at you. Just curious if you read it
In short, it's betting 10 unhit numbers? Correct?
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:21 PM 2016
In short, it's betting 10 unhit numbers? Correct?
Go read the thread and understand it...
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:21 PM 2016
In short, it's betting 10 unhit numbers? Correct?
No
You are assuming it fails because you are VB player
I appreciate your trying to help
But VB players are on strategy boards why?
It will only drive you crazy
You play advantage and visual play. Why would u subject yourself to what is here?
But dont just say it wont work without even knowing what it is
Again, why should it work? What enables it to overcome the house edge?
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:26 PM 2016
Again, why should it work? What enables it to overcome the house edge?
Nothing overcomes house edge
Notto created a non hits strategy that works more then it doesnt work. Thats all
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:26 PM 2016
Again, why should it work? What enables it to overcome the house edge?
Sorry General, you are a General by name, you can't come here and claim that Ken should have his previlages taken away as a mod.
This are your words.. Put your money were your mouth is and explain why it won't work?
Dont use house edge as an excuse.
14
General Discussion / Re: I'll be in the minority on this, what else is new?
« on: March 25, 2016, 11:30:06 PM »
Who would go to college and then sit in class while the first semester students teach the class
and the professors get scorned when they speak up and point out how blatantly obvious their
mistakes are. Who has time like that to waste ? (people who see it as a fun game/hobby perhaps).
The problem is Turbo, you guys are the professors. We are the class. Instead of showing us the way all you guys tell the class what the class is doing is wrong. You are telling coming to college for learning is useless as the college is for genius people. That makes things frustrating to learn further. Why dont you show us the way. Why dont you lay exactly how you play rather than throwing puzzles to crack. I can as well do my self study rather than coming to college.
RouletteGhost,
If the method worked then it wouldn't be limited to short little play sessions.
Over time those short little sessions add up to a lost bankroll.
In short, the longer that it's played, the more it will lose.
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:41 PM 2016
RouletteGhost,
If the method worked then it wouldn't be limited to short little play sessions.
Over time those short little sessions add up to a lost bankroll.
In short, the longer that it's played, the more it will lose.
That shows how much you know about the system.
Azim,
Can you explain how a system that does not provide the player with an edge over the casino can possibly enable the player to win in the long run?
Can you perhaps show the math that proves that this is possible?
(Don't bother, you can't.)
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:45 PM 2016
Azim,
Can you explain how a system that does not provide the player with an edge over the casino can possibly enable the player to win in the long run?
Can you perhaps show the math that proves that this is possible?
(Don't bother, you can't.)
I am dumb I want to know why it won't work as you say it. So if I understand you right it's the house edge that will fail KTF?
Azim,
Do you really want to go down this road?
Quote from: The General on Mar 27, 11:55 PM 2016
Azim,
Do you really want to go down this road?
I am just asking I am dumb. Like I said..
Here I will tell you this is how you guide people...Just don't come out and say words if you can't back them.
Quote from: Azim on Feb 05, 04:36 PM 2016
What you have done is every spin becomes your 28 sleeper spin.
The only advice I have for you is make sure you do it right. Especially when you have multiple repeats to count to make your 28 sleepers.
The trout from hell that will kill you is one that has 5-7 repeats with in 15 to 20 spins. That's were you will have to be careful as to which numbers you adding, since removing is easy it's the last number hit.
However, you would have to be very unlucky for that to happen. It does happen.
Have enough arsenal to protect you from that disaster or have a stop loss somewhere.
I can quote many from Quads and grasshopper and others were I have warned and said the selection is good.
So you again telling me House Edge will kill it?
Yes, the house edge will inevitably consume your entire bankroll.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 12:09 AM 2016
Yes, the house edge will inevitably consume your entire bankroll.
Shows how ignorant you are.
Quote from: Azim on Mar 28, 12:13 AM 2016
BTW, why are you here? To cause trouble for Ken.
That's telling me you are all words and no action. Nice talking to you. I am sure the offer for a 5 Star hotel was words with no actions. LOL
Quote
Shows how ignorant you are.
Indeed it does. Like Dr. Thorp, mathematicians, and history, I don't know anything about roulette.
By the way, Denial isn't a river in Egypt.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 12:23 AM 2016
Prove it. Show me the math that proves I'm wrong.
You don't read do you, I said I was dumb, trying to learn from you who claims it won't work?
You said House Edge, I accepted that and told you you are ignorant.
If you want me to prove it to you go practice GUT make it natural to you and come talk to me after.
Ken Issue:
If I saw a thread correct didn't you start a poll going against Ken?
To Ken, was that right or was I dreaming?
Ok, I'll try to explain it this once... in a way that you may or may not comprehend.
The number of pockets on the wheel determine the probability of winning.
If the same number of pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next, then how could the probability of winning possibly change based on what has or has not hit on the prior spins? What is the physical force that could possible enable past spins to reach forward in time from the past and change the odds? Is it the strong, weak, gravity, or electromagnetic? Or is it magic? Pick one.
Winkel's GUT system was nothing more than a goofy attempt to exploit the "law of the third". Since it each spin of the wheel is an independent event, and since the system was in no way designed to exploit a defective gaming device, and since it did not improve the players ability to predict where the ball would likely impact the wheel on the next spin, it was a foolish waste of words.
In the end, it's because of "since" .
Now take heart..I won't post anything else in this thread to bring anyone down. I don't want to do that. So feel free to come up with a zillion different reasons as to why I'm wrong, so that you can justify your cause and to continue onward with your dream and believe system.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 12:38 AM 2016
Ok, I'll try to explain it this once, in a way that you may or may not comprehend.
The number of pockets on the wheel determine the probability of winning.
If the same number of pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next, then how could the probability of winning possibly change based on what has or has not hit on the prior spins? What is the physical force that could possible enable past spins to reach forward in time from the past and change the odds? Is it the strong, weak, gravity, or electromagnetic? Or is it magic? Pick one.
Winkel's GUT system was nothing more than a goofy attempt to exploit the "law of the third". Since it each spin of the wheel is an independent event, and since the system was in no way designed to exploit a defective gaming device, and since it did not improve the players ability to predict where the ball would likely impact the wheel on the next spin, it was a foolish waste of words.
In the end, it's because of "since" .
Ok, I will say this to you...
You don't know me, I don't know you.. As Ken says he has been playing since he was young.
I will cut this short and not make you go read through my posts.
I have said, I have been brought up in a family that has gambled all their life. I have myself been brought up to gamble when I was 6 at house parties.
I know what Roulette is all about and so does everyone else with there set of eyes.. Not everyone has the same brains to understand what's being said.
However, claiming House edge as an excuse tells me you have no idea at all about roulette.
So I will leave you at this and advice you to please put your money were your mouth is.
I have no doubt that you're a legend in your own mind.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 12:52 AM 2016
I have no doubt that you're a legend in your own mind.
Once again its your assumption. I am flattered.
Azim,
I get it. You're passionate about the game, but you have a great deal to learn. Take some time to read more on the subject by researching the history and evolution of the wheel.
Learn from the mistakes of others, as you will not live long enough to make all of the mistakes yourself.
Best of luck.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 12:54 AM 2016
Azim,
I get it. You're passionate about the game, but you have a great deal to learn. Take some time to read more on the subject by researching the history and evolution of the wheel.
Learn from the mistakes of others, as you will not live long enough to make all of the mistakes yourself.
Best of luck.
I will give you the same advice.
For those that want to try the Andruchi system.
Thank Thomas Grant.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=401.msg77679#msg77679
I will choose to believe actions speak louder then words. Ktf wins more then it loses.
Everyone winning with it. Cant be just luck
And its not a goofy system. It is somewhat based on math
I thinks the general should at least read it before jumping in saying it will fail
For all the general knows ktf could be based on visual ballistics. But he wouldnt know because he hasnt read it
The general. Why subject yourself to a mechanical system place if you are VB? Wasting your time and will only frustrate YOURSELF
Its like me enjoying chess and believing it should be only played one way, then i goto a chess forum and argue it. Noone benefits
Actions speak louder then words. Notto how many sheets are you at now?
Ive seen a lot of material from Andruchi. None of it worked or even showed proper understanding of roulette. Yes hes running a scam, one of which is giving free systems that supposedly work at flawed casinos... that hes an affiliate of.
General is right abut his points are being missed. It is not personal, and hes not being arrogant about it as it may appear. Recently even kav perceived my attempt to help the guy as arrogance. There is not some personal vendetta from advantage players towards system players. Roulette math and facts are quite basic, but widely not understood. APs understand it, and constantly repeat it all, but it goes over heads. And system guys think we have the problem. You dont see anything in history about the HG, just plain roulette physics / AP methods.
With experience you can look at a system and see it has no cirrelation to physical variables and bet selection, and therefore know it ill fail. That was generals point. What is the part of the system that changes odds?
I have no idea what KTF is. But unless its bet selection changes the odds, it will eventually lose. This is not my ignorance. It is just plain fact because you can only overcome unfair payouts if you improve odds.
If someone is winning with it, consider if 1,000 players used the same system for a month. 47% have won so far and think they have the HG. 53% have lost. With further play, the 47% will eventually see reality too. Thats the house edge. Anything can happen short term.
And hey remember Blue Angels disaster? How often is there a new HG here? The end result is always the same. The same processes repeat. The hype over short term testing, then eventually reality.
Im not promoting andruchi
I posted a page thst had statistics of how many non hits and repeats are expected in X spins
If you look at the link its useful info
Steve,
You are right. I will 100% not argue.
However, having said that, we aren't looking at the same fruit. One of us is looking at an apple and the other plum Both being red does not mean they are same.
Here is what I have said, and that's why I ask people to practice.
Testing zone / Re: Holy Grail By Winkel.
« on: December 31, 2014, 08:51:22 AM »
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on December 31, 2014, 07:45:53 AM
Thanks for the help thus far. Much appreciated.
I have a feeling Winkel will be on the same page as me in saying:
Please Please make sure you have the facts right.
Unlike Andruchi, this is not a straight forward system. It's basically a strategy.
A system is easy to follow, a strategy is not.
End of Quote.
GUT is not a system, GUT is a Strategy to understand what is happening.
It was people like Herb, you got all Winkel stressed out. Thats why I said, what I said, I am dumb please enlighten me as to why it won't work.
However, if someone comes and tells me House edge is the only problem. To me they are ignorant.
Comming back to Andruchi, I don't think RG was promoting it.
Like I said, thanks to Thomas Grant the system has been on this site for a while now.
The only reason I apologized to the General was for accusing him about Ken. Turn out it was FoolWise.
RG really its not useful info, because it doesnt in any way help improve odds.
It seems KTF is After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.
It wont work. After those 10 spins the odds havent changed, at all. Theres nothing to argue about. Anyone just test the theory with the free software i recently published. I published it precisely so people can see, not argue about it.
And once you see odds havent changed, you see whats left..... just progression, which is no better than martingale. Different size bets on different spins, nothing more. The explanation is clear. Im not sure how it dan get clearer.
I think theres too many misconceptions as to why people are here
People should be free to play as they wish without being told they are wrong
For the advantage play and VB guys: you are throwing chips at the same table and have the same odds
You dont have to agree with an idea. Also, if you dont agree, you are not a Maths guy (what ever that is)
Maths is fact. Agreeing with maths doesnt mean you are a mad revolutionary. It may of done in the 1600s but its 2016
There is no argument in "prove it doesnt work then?". Its for the people making the claim to provide proof.
"Never lost yet" isnt proof. Its just "never lost yet" and nothing else.
There is no proof that KTF is a long term winner, mathematically or other.
"It loses more than it wins" isnt proof either.
While it remains unproven, there is absolutely no problem with people saying it is no different than any other idea and having reasons to be believe it will eventually fail based on their personal experience.
Back to original post
I posted the link because of info like this
I couldnt care who anruchi is
But theres useful info there
Azim if you mean we need to look at each system independently, I generally agree. But the problem is almost every system uses the same fallacies, just repackaged. Like with KTF, the odds arent being changed. We already know that waiting for sleepers and hot numbers and then betting doesnt change odds.
There are very rare exceptions, like if there was a temporary bias, although it would still be quite a different thing.
So basically a different system that uses the same losing principles is just the same system with a different name.
RG the information still doesnt tell anything useful. Its just basic math. It doesnt help change odds. Changing odds, aka accurate bet selection, must be the focus.
(link:://izzy-speaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/The-uphill-battle-is-like.jpg)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 28, 06:48 AM 2016
Back to original post
I posted the link because of info like this
I couldnt care who anruchi is
But theres useful info there
RG, there is a lot of difference between 10 unique numbers and KTF. KTF was born after notto understood GUT.
He has admitted, that he was losing before he read GUT. Having studied GUT and practiced it he now knows how to read a trot.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 06:53 AM 2016
RG the information still doesnt tell anything useful. Its just basic math. It doesnt help change odds. Changing odds, aka accurate bet selection, must be the focus.
Steve,
Thats what he has done. People have been warned not to follow the 10 spins and bet +1/-1 blindly.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 06:50 AM 2016
Azim if you mean we need to look at each system independently, I generally agree. But the problem is almost every system uses the same fallacies, just repackaged. Like with KTF, the odds arent being changed. We already know that waiting for sleepers and hot numbers and then betting doesnt change odds.
There are very rare exceptions, like if there was a temporary bias, although it would still be quite a different thing.
So basically a different system that uses the same losing principles is just the same system with a different name.
Steve,
I had this discussionn with Winkel as well... Its somewhere on one of the threads.
Using intersection, union and compliment one changes there odds.. Winkel never got past Herb and the group to explain.
QuotePeople should be free to play as they wish without being told they are wrong
For the advantage play and VB guys: you are throwing chips at the same table and have the same odds
Sure we can all play however we want. Nobody argues that. But when it comes to what works, what can earn a living, there is only one truth. Truth isnt opinion or perspective.
No, the vb players aim to change odds. Thats exactly the point Ive been making. The only thing that vb and system players share is the same payouts and rules. Payouts and odds are different things.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 06:58 AM 2016
Sure we can all play however we want. Nobody argues that. But when it comes to what works, what can earn a living, there is only one truth. Truth isnt opinion or perspective.
No, the vb players aim to change odds. Thats exactly the point Ive been making. The only thing that vb and system players share is the same payouts and rules. Payouts and odds are different things.
Totally correct. People who can read TROTS change there odds too....
Azim, if Herb had any information about any bet selection method, Im sure he'd recognize if it could or couldnt possibly change odds. Ill look at GUT later and let u know my thoughts. But by you saying "read trots" it sounds like GUT is looking to find sequences like rrrbbbrrr etc. But i have software, similar to what i published, whic has tested billions of trots and sequences. The result: no rb sequence had any bearing in future rb sequences. I could run the comouter for days testing with the same result.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 07:05 AM 2016
Azim, if Herb had any information about any bet selection method, Im sure he'd recognize if it could or couldnt possibly change odds. Ill look at GUT later and let u know my thoughts. But by you saying "read trots" it sounds like GUT is looking to find sequences like rrrbbbrrr etc. But i have software, similar to what i published, whic has tested billions of trots and sequences. The result: no rb sequence had any bearing in future rb sequences. I could run the comouter for days testing with the same result.
Not true. Why don't you read it. Honestly, its worth reading it.
I honestly Thank SAM, two-cat-Sam.
He pointed it out, it has been a blessing in telling people to go practice.
Read it for yourself and try and understand it.
Please keep an open mind. I know where you going with VB , however, I hate to say this but not everyone of same age has become a doctor.
We all have different absorbing power to understand. Not saying you will not understand it. However, it will be hard to follow considering the obstructions by Herb and the group.
Quote from: Turner on Mar 28, 06:45 AM 2016
You dont have to agree with an idea. Also, if you dont agree, you are not a Maths guy (what ever that is)
Maths is fact. Agreeing with maths doesnt mean you are a mad revolutionary. It may of done in the 1600s but its 2016
There is no argument in "prove it doesnt work then?". Its for the people making the claim to provide proof.
"Never lost yet" isnt proof. Its just "never lost yet" and nothing else.
There is no proof that KTF is a long term winner, mathematically or other.
"It loses more than it wins" isnt proof either.
While it remains unproven, there is absolutely no problem with people saying it is no different than any other idea and having reasons to be believe it will eventually fail based on their personal experience.
Turner, you are right.
If everyone goes back and reads the KTF post, somewhere I asked notto to redo the spins from a few spins into the numbers he had posted. Not everyone can see numbers the same way
He did give us a way how to play those number's. The reason I brought that up was, I saw a trend of bad spins from his JACKPOT247.com tv show
Betting non hits with a small win goal is probably one of the best things posted here
I applaud hammer
Can anyone give simple information to explain how GUT changes the odds? Like even one example of bet selection.
QuoteBetting non hits with a small win goal is probably one of the best things posted here
Betting sleepers is no better than random betting. Its easy to prove. And small win target doesnt change anything.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 07:39 AM 2016
Can anyone give simple information to explain how GUT changes the odds? Like even one example of bet selection.
Betting sleepers is no better than random betting. Its easy to prove. And small win target doesnt change anything.
For me its fine
I dont seek to make a living off it
Play it as a hobby for fun
Win some. Lose some.
RG again however you play, and your intentions, is nothing someone else can tell you. But only a system that is better than random bet selection qualifies to be called good.
I read more about GUT and its just working with sleepers and repeats. If there was any effectiveness of this approach, testing billions of spins would have showed it. Testing with real spins is the same in this respect. The only time sleepers or hot numbers make a difference is with wheel bias. I cant see any merit with GUT.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 07:47 AM 2016
RG again however you play, and your intentions, is nothing someone else can tell you. But only a system that is better than random bet selection qualifies to be called good.
I read more about GUT and its just working with sleepers and repeats. If there was any effectiveness of this approach, testing billions of spins would have showed it. Testing with real spins is the same in this respect. The only time sleepers or hot numbers make a difference is with wheel bias. I cant see any merit with GUT.
Honestly Steve,
All I have to say is WOW!!!...
Also I cant stand rubbish some people say, like I try to hide working systems. Its bullshit. If something works, Id tell everyone. If something doesnt work, ill explain why, and give simple information to allow people to properly test for themselves. There is no hiding if anything. I refer again to the case with blue angel, hat i was accused of doing, and how that ended. People shouldnt get so offended and personal about testing and civil discussion. Truth is not offensive. Im not offending winkel or anything, but I dont see GUT has any merit.
Azim, if im wrong, dont just say wow. Show me Im wrong.
Ktf is a good mechanical strategy of play
Steve,
I said that, before you posted that reply. It's hard to follow... Keep an open mind.
Let me give you an example using VB. VB uses physics.. Ball rotation speed, wheel rotation.. etc etc..
GUT uses it's own strategy for it to work. It honestly took me at least 5-6 readings of it, before I got the grasp of what Winkel was trying to say.
For me it's hard to explain, and not only that, people look at things differently.
Once again, I have said this to everyone, It's hard to explain. You have to read it and understand it.
It's not a method it's a strategy.
Here is how nicely TURNER has worded it for everyone:
Turner
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Re: Holy Grail By Winkel.
« Reply #531 on: December 11, 2015, 05:02:54 PM »
Quote
Correct me if I am wrong.....
GUT ( to me) seems to be like a compass or barometer to aid you to make improved bet selection
The key to winning is improving the bet selection
Everyone seens to want a hard and fast algorithm ....I think the idea of GUT is to put you in a position....when its time to bet.....of having an informed choice....which leads to an improved bet selection
I could be wrong.
Really i do have an open mind. The problem is GUT is basing bet selection on sleepers and repeats. But these principles have been tested billions of times before, excluding testing ive done. And the odds dont change. The spins are all independent trials. There is no link between spins besides similar physical variables, and ball start/release points.
Most impirtant is sleepers and hot numbers dont have any influence on future spins, but GUT uses them to formulate bet selection. Its like using random to create random bet selection, then saying you are improving odds to be better than random.
For any system to work, there must be some association, even if indirect, to the variables that govern winning numbers, aka physics. Nothing else governs winning numbers. To say otherwise is like saying voodoo selects the winning number.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 07:53 AM 2016
Also I cant stand rubbish some people say, like I try to hide working systems. Its bullshit. If something works, Id tell everyone. If something doesnt work, ill explain why, and give simple information to allow people to properly test for themselves. There is no hiding if anything. I refer again to the case with blue angel, hat i was accused of doing, and how that ended. People shouldnt get so offended and personal about testing and civil discussion. Truth is not offensive. Im not offending winkel or anything, but I dont see GUT has any merit.
Azim, if im wrong, dont just say wow. Show me Im wrong.
Steve,
Holding back or deleting winning systems. I can vouch on that one, I have seen a lot of working systems that have fallen down the cracks.
I know, you will bash me on this one... I like to visit, old systems and tweak them in a way and see what happens.
This week was time for me to visit ANDRUCHI's system. After looking at the code behind the excel file. I can tell you this much.. It was 100% scam.
I have said to everyone and so has Winkel, knowing GUT you can play it anywhere live dealer, air balll or RNG. It will be a winner. It won't make you rich but it will give you a decent life.
Back to andruchi, he has said only certain casino's for me that is a sign right away to run . That it is a scam. If it's going to work, it should work on any roulette algorithm.
We have to agree to disagree on this one. But maybe ill be proven wrong or right with the upcoming multiplayer roulette.
Well steve,
Everyone to their own. Like I said we are looking at 2 different fruits. Both the same color does not mean they are the same.
You looked at GUT as being betting on sleepers and repeaters. I look at it as reading the TROT. So we have our difference right there.
TRUE, people who will play it will prove us all wrong.
To each their own
Some people view roulette as a hobby. And do not care to increase prediction accuracy
For some people things like ktf are ample
Notto. How many sheets now?
ok... Martingale (as many players) and Andruchi later was actually one of the first contacts i had with roueltte. I have the "bad tendency" to overanalyze every system i find before i put my real money on it. I suppose that's good. That's why i put bad tendency in " ".
The good thing is that i test them to the max and i test them again mathematically and then sometimes if i'm still interested and not seen it as scam i am running it through RNG tests of 1M-2M spins. (random.org etc)
The bad thing is having done all that test and not just by 100-200 spins or few sessions testing i have NOT ANY SYSTEM SO FAR to be long term winner (and i'm pretty sure i won't ever, just enjoy the process of testing them i guess for math sake...)
Andruchi's one is no different system. The maths and probabilities about unique numbers in 10 spins, 37 spins etc are correct. Feel free to use them in any of your system. The catch is later on using the "Prpoportional probabilities" type. This is where all his math are going out of the window. He is hoping though with so much analysis before that point (and correct one) the average user will be confused or convinced that his system is a genuine winner. I guarantee you it's not and if someone wants me to prove him why (by statistics laws) he can PM me. There is no reason to overanalyse it in the post.
What I wanted to post is an excel sheet i had made soem months ago trying to thoroughly test the Andruchi theories and stats.
His numbers for probabilities of Unique numbers in set number of spins are correct even though not 100% accurate since his numbers are based on millions of spins.
My numbers in the excel are not based on millions of spins but on the statistical equation there is to get these unique numbers. So they are not based on millions of spins but on the EXACT calculations-maths.
For example the 23 and 24 unique numbers in 37 spins there arenot 20% and 20% but actually 19,91% and 20,43% accordingly.
Feel free to download the excel showing the mathematical type that was used and the exact probabilities for each unique number from 1 unique to 37 uniques.
I must say again. This won't change anyway the system or your odds of winning, but you may use it to any of your systems just for fun or sicentific purposes. :)
You're welcome.
PS: *** Applying Physics and Computers to calculate where the ball most probably will land and therefore changing even slightly the odds from 1 in 37 to even 1 in 35 or 1 in 34 i think YES, it can be a winning strategy. No. i'm not promoting Steve's systems even though i think they can make you have an edge over casino House edge. For the time i can't afford them and i'm not sure they would be legal in my country so not worth the investement here for me. I agree though that Roulette Wheel and ball is not RANDOM but CHAOTIC with so many variables. so calculating the variabels can work***
TOO LONG/DIDN'T READ: I have tested the andruchi maths and stats. they are correct for the unique numbers only part and you can use them. I have also an excel you can use that has the EXACT probabilites for each unique number and the type used to find them with an example. This won't change anything. The andruchi system still won't work but you can use the stats for fun! You're welcome :)
BellagioOwner,
You are 100% correct in what you have said.
However, once again not everyone will look at a red fruit and say it's apple some will call it plum, some might think it's a tomato.
Everyone sees things in a different perspective.
I am not saying I am smart, I have said I am dumb.
About the multi player game, Steve, will we be able to see past spins?
Quote from: Azim on Mar 28, 08:40 AM 2016
BellagioOwner,
You are 100% correct in what you have said.
However, once again not everyone will look at a red fruit and say it's apple some will call it plum, some might think it's a tomato.
Everyone sees things in a different perspective.
I am not saying I am smart, I have said I am dumb.
Agree. I just post the true math facts for everyone to see. Everyone can use them whatever way he/she likes :)
And by the way. I think there is a way to "bypass" the house edge in the long run. You jsut have to know how much long run you can risk before losing. If you had for example a very very safe and low consistent earning system. What you need is a system that will lose (all systems will eventually lose in the veeeery looong run) but will lose very rare before you stop playing it. For example a slow system that can lose once in 1.000.000 spins (1M spins is like playing the system for 5 years * 365 days * 10 hours/day * 60 minutes * 1 bet/spin per minute. This is 5*365*10*60*1 = 1.095.000 spins ) So if you played something THAT safe for 1 or 2 years you would probably be in profit in the 1st year. you could stop. It's like actually stoping before the chances catch you. I know its MILES AWAY from being called mechanical Holy Grail but it could be worth the try. That'ssomehting i maybe could play in real money rather than just excel and stats.
Well that's it, waiting for a trigger and betting is wrong, sooner or later you will be at the mercy of LUCK.
Let me start by saying this first. VB has it's advantages and disadvantages. If things were as straight as in theory, I personally would use it. Not saying it to agree with Steve.
It had crossed my mind years ago, however it wasn't worth looking into it for various reasons. From where I am the disadvantages out numbered the advantages.
Considering now that we have online gambling, playing with computers at home in our comfort zone has made it worse.
Made it worse you ask, we play more spins now than we ever would have played in the past.
Having to play more spins we are seeing what a run from hell is doing to people who are waiting for triggers. We have to be careful in how we handle it.
Example: How would you cross a road?Now how would you do the same crossing if it was a highway?
I am hoping that will clarify some off the concepts of "IT WON'T WORK", house edge has always been there and will always be there. Be it VB or manual playing.
Thats why I commented regarding KTF, so in 54 days its a HG (or a great method)? Cant be, not that fast. My guideline is >> After 5 years on the board, if the thread is still very ACTIVE with CLAIMS of making tens of thousands, only at that point will I take a LITTLE bit of notice. Questions.....name me a 5 year method on this board that is "very" active still today. If you cant find one, why not?
Also, do you feel the KTF thread will still be active 5 years from now? If no, why not?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changing the subject >> imo, the biggest issue on this board is, whether or not its ok to jump on any thread (method or other) you dont agree with? I am ALWAYS fair and see both sides.
A) A method is posted and you dont agree with it. Is it "starting trouble" to POLITELY ask questions and give your point of view? I'm not talking about this moron >> "you'll never win you damn loser SOB, rot in hell"!!!! (lol) Not talking about that guy.
B) The opposite, say nothing and leave the thread alone? Like I said, I'm in the middle on this, I see both sides.
Ken
In terms of VB, I have had several people ask me why I have not switched over? I use to rip VB quite a bit but I have moved a little to the center. I see its merits but the honest truth (speaking for myself) I have put in so much time/effort into what I currently do, I dont want to start over.
I dont want to re-learn roulette all over again. It does not mean I'm putting VB down per sey, I just dont have the patience to start over. I also dont promote VB. When I want to learn anything casino related, its balls to the walls for me. 1000000% or not at all. I'll never put 99% effort into roulette, never.
Ken
Ken....I see your cough has cleared up
VB (cough) :thumbsup:
VB obviously has merit
I do not have the time to data collect though
So at this point in time its not for me
Quote from: Turner on Mar 28, 09:59 AM 2016
Ken....I see your cough has cleared up
VB (cough) :thumbsup:
lol, I forgot all about that. Do I believe in all AP style of play? No but VB *DOES* have its merits, I admit it.
Ken
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 28, 10:02 AM 2016
VB obviously has merit
I do not have the time to data collect though
So at this point in time its not for me
Geez, we half agree on something, cool.
Ken
Ive been asked by several VB guys to collect data at my local casino
As much as ID LOVE to i dont have time now :(
I think it's interesting that so many people talk about the "long term".
How long is the long term? 2M spins? If that's the case most of us probably won't be playing in the long term.
2M spins if getting
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 28, 10:45 AM 2016
I think it's interesting that so many people talk about the "long term".
How long is the long term? 2M spins? If that's the case most of us probably won't be playing in the long term.
2M spins if getting
Exactly. I test in 40 spin batches. Long term means nothing for us
Winkels GUT fails long term. What ? 1 million spins? Lol
We play for a couple hours. If the method is good house edge wont bite us short term. If the method is good we dont care about HE anyways
Also noone claims things NEVER lose. Its roulette there will be losing sessions. Manage the losses. Have a stop loss
IMO systems will never work talk is pointless on a strategy forum. Why work urself up
I think it's interesting that so many people talk about the "long term".
How long is the long term? 2M spins? 5M? 10M? Even just using 2M as the case, most of us probably won't be playing in the long term.
2M spins if getting 1 spin per min... would take 33333 hours. If we play 8 hours a day... that's 4166 days. If we divide that by 365 to represent a year... that's 11.42 years.
You would have to play 8 hours a day, every single day, for 11.42 years to ever see 2M spins.
Sure, some things might lose in the long term. I only care about the short term though. If something does stay profitable over the "long term" than it's just a nice little bonus knowing that you are slightly less likely to run into a blowout scenario.
For me it's simply a race of closing enough profits before the blowout scenario happens. And then controlling the size of that blowout so it doesn't eat into the closed profits too much and so that I can refill the bankroll and start again.
Same debates time and time again
Someone likes a method and wins then people come and say it fails long term. Then forum owner says you need to increase accuracy
Different day. Same song and dance
What amazes me is most people will say something fails without even knowing what it is and have never read a word of it. Notto did a GREAT job with KTF
NOONE claims a method will never ever fail. Will the winning sessions outweigh the losing ones? Is the stoploss good? Thats what matters
Reposting:
(link:://izzy-speaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/The-uphill-battle-is-like.jpg)
You are right, people don't like something they not understand, all of them need to find a different path which lead to HG.
The point is everyones style is different
We dont NEED people with blow horns popping up all the time saying math says it will fail
I suspect that what you really mean is that you don't need more experienced players pointing out that the system has already been tested, and has already been proven to fail countless times within the last 100 + years.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:23 PM 2016
What you really mean is that you don't need more experienced players pointing out that the system has already been tested, and has already been proven to fail countless times within the last 100 + years.
What do you mean?
People like making strategies and playing them
For some it works. Some win more than lose
So what is the point of saying it fails long term. I dont get it
Noone is claiming it will always win and they will quit their jobs
Some view roulette as a hobby. And dont need people telling them it fails. Got it?
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:23 PM 2016
I suspect that what you really mean is that you don't need more experienced players pointing out that the system has already been tested, and has already been proven to fail countless times within the last 100 + years.
I think what he means is people like you should stop pointing at House Edge and claim it won't work.
The General. Please understand. Not everyone wants to play VB or AP.
People created a strategy such as ktf. And play it successfully. Let it be
Ok it fails in 1 million spins. Let it go
Noone is shoving it down your throat and saying "hey this wont fail it works we will never lose"
What exactly are u trying to prove
We talked a lot before and you are generous
But did you ever think a roulette strategy forum may not be for you?
You guys need to learn to think outside of the box. Currently, your minds are trapped in old ideas and confined by the gambler's fallacy.
I'm not the international sales rep for VB or biased wheel play. I'm simply pointing out the obvious.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:30 PM 2016
You guys need to learn to think outside of the box. Currently, your minds are trapped in old ideas and confined by the gambler's fallacy.
Continue.....
By the way...
The term AP. Do you guys know what that means?
If you did, then your goal would to be an AP.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:30 PM 2016
You guys need to learn to think outside of the box. Currently, your minds are trapped in old ideas and confined by the gambler's fallacy.
I'm not the international sales rep for VB or biased wheel play. I'm simply pointing out the obvious.
Goes for you Math guys too...
Sometimes you have too learn to read a situation. Read the thread, understand whats going on...
If you come to say something fails. And then say why it will. At least add some substance. Share an idea. Something.
So redundant
Again...what does the word/acronym "AP" mean to you?
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:37 PM 2016
Again...what does the word/acronym "AP" mean to you?
Advantage play. Increasing accuracy
Im all ears if you share something of substance
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:37 PM 2016
Again...what does the word/acronym "AP" mean to you?
Advicing peroson...
LOL!!!!!
Oh wait a munite.. Did you math guys say past spins got nothing to do with the future?
You said it in the last 24 hours you here to gather intel on wheels.. Why collect data if it's not of any use?
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 28, 03:38 PM 2016
Advantage play. Increasing accuracy
Im all ears if you share something of substance
I'm waiting. .... :)
Quote from: Azim on Mar 28, 03:39 PM 2016
Advicing peroson...
LOL!!!!!
Oh wait a munite.. Did you math guys say past spins got nothing to do with the future?
You said it in the last 24 hours you here to gather intel on wheels.. Why collect data if it's not of any use?
All the math guys here use past spins. Not attacking mr j as i dont want to go down that road again. But complete a street is an example. Betting for repeater is another example. Etc. We are all on the same mission
Correct. AP means advantage player.
It does not mean that you're solely a VB player, or a biased wheel player. It simply means that YOU have the ADVANTAGE OVER THE CASINO in whatever your game is that you play.
You do not want to post on roulette forums that you're proud not to be an AP, and that you do not want to be an AP player. It's like proclaiming that you're proud to be stupid and that you wish to remain blissfully ignorant for the rest of your life. I sense that your goal, like most of the people on this forum is to find a way to get the edge, and win in the LONG TERM.
If you really want to learn how to get the edge, then quit throwing up the absurd walls against the "math boyz". Take the time to learn from them.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:45 PM 2016
Correct. AP means advantage player.
It does not mean that you're solely a VB player, or a biased wheel player. It simply means that YOU have the ADVANTAGE OVER THE CASINO in whatever your game is that you play.
You do not want to post on roulette forums that you're proud not to be an AP, and that you do not want to be an AP player. It's like proclaiming that you're proud to be stupid and that you wish to remain blissfully ignorant for the rest of your life. I sense that your goal, like most of the people on this forum is to find a way to get the edge, and win in the LONG TERM.
If you really want to learn how to get the edge, then quit throwing up the absurd walls of against the "math boyz". Take the time to learn from them.
Ok. Ready to learn. Maybe make a thread?
Yep, I'm listening :)
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:45 PM 2016
Correct. AP means advantage player.
It does not mean that you're solely a VB player, or a biased wheel player. It simply means that YOU have the ADVANTAGE OVER THE CASINO in whatever your game is that you play.
You do not want to post on roulette forums that you're proud not to be an AP, and that you do not want to be an AP player. It's like proclaiming that you're proud to be stupid and that you wish to remain blissfully ignorant for the rest of your life. I sense that your goal, like most of the people on this forum is to find a way to get the edge, and win in the LONG TERM.
If you really want to learn how to get the edge, then quit throwing up the absurd walls against the "math boyz". Take the time to learn from them.
LMAO..
Furthermore...
If you don't want to sound like a fool, stop proclaiming that they're "math guyz". When someone uses the term, it implies that they're not a math guy. It's like proclaiming that your stupid.
It's akin to illiterate people calling people that can read the "literate guyz".
I respect math
But if i was scared of it i wouldnt play roulette
Go read the ktf thread
RouletteGhost,
I already know what it's about. It's an idea as old as the hills.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 03:49 PM 2016
Furthermore...
If you don't want to sound like a fool, stop proclaiming that they're "math guyz". When someone uses the term, it implies that they're not a math guy. It's like proclaiming that your stupid.
It's akin to illiterate people calling people that can read the "literate guyz".
LMAO.. It would be really an insult, seeing that people like Herb had to ruin it for everyone.
I wonder if he is out there making money or wasting time here.
However, like I told you before put your money where your mouth is.
Like I told you before. Make time to go and study the game.
Ok. Well if u decide to start a thread to teach i will read it
Until then i still see no substance
Substance is was notto did fyi
It would be cool if, for once, the condescending stuff and attacking was on the back burner
If we could have a nice conversation. im happy to listen. Start a thread. Give advice. Explain how you play
Otherwise no substance posts and saying things fail and nothing else wont end well..
Seems to be quite a few people here who never really post anything of value...
There are only a few who make a lot of valuable posts and it's appreciated.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 28, 03:45 PM 2016
All the math guys here use past spins. Not attacking mr j as i dont want to go down that road again. But complete a street is an example. Betting for repeater is another example. Etc. We are all on the same mission
I think this entire thread contains points of at least 9 threads I have started in the past (lol).
"Name me a method that does NOT contain an element of using past spins in ANY form"?
So, we are all guilty. Maybe on different levels.
Ken
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 28, 04:35 PM 2016
Seems to be quite a few people here who never really post anything of value...
There are only a few who make a lot of valuable posts and it's appreciated.
Is that strictly NUMBER of posts or actual VALUE?
Ken
Question: How many of you know who Dr. Edward Thorp is? Do you believe what he's written regarding roulette?
Everyone is on Google at the moment (rofl)
Ken
(link:://curitibainenglish.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/people-in-elevator.jpg)link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=HdGwTx5UPfM
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 04:44 PM 2016
Question: How many of you know who Dr. Edward Thorp is? Do you believe what he's written regarding roulette?
Herb...with all due respect, you have been saying Dr Edward Thorpe and "buy Russell Barnhadts book" and all the rest, for years.
Its a bit repetitive.
A bit like a religious quoter, with their Mark 2 chapter 3 malarkey
Its predictable and repetitive. Ive seen it several times in all your guises.
Update your approach.
If you really want to help people see the light, change the record, I'm bored with it.
But I will say this. I respect your knowledge and would be your most avid reader.
Quote from: Turner on Mar 28, 04:59 PM 2016
Herb...with all due respect, you have been saying Dr Edaward Thorpe and "but Russell Barnhadts book and all the rest, for years.
Its a bit repetitive.
A bit like a religious quoter, with their Mark 2 chapter 3 malarkey
Its predictable and repetitive. Ive seen it several times in all your guises.
Update your approach.
If you really want to help people see the light, change the record, I'm bored with it.
But I will say this. I respect your knowledge and would be your most avid reader.
Wow So the Genral is Herb...
SEE GENERAL OR HERB OR WHATEVER YOUR NAME IS...
When you have nothing to show, you go around and change identity..
LMAO!!! Now it really shows how ignorant you are to the game.
Quote from: Azim on Mar 28, 05:01 PM 2016
Wow So the Genral is Herb...
You didn't know that, geez? I have all the names but because I respect the guy, its not important.
I pretty much agree with Turner. General sir has sharp edges, as do I.
I think he is in the top 3 guys on the forum with the MOST knowledge.
Ken
Turner...
Azim...
Guys,
I'm not here to help you. I merely came here for information from certain people in certain locations. That's it.
Along the way, I may offer some advice but that's it. Not to insult anyone...but the infection of ignorance runs way to deep for many of the systems players to be "saved" by anyone.
I have to say as a newer member of the forum it would be great to see more valuable posts by those guys are who in the top 3 or top 5 with a lot of knowledge. Most of the time it just seems like they are saying what doesn't work... which is fine. But I think if you are saying XYZ doesn't work you should then at least point people towards what DOES work.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 05:14 PM 2016
Guys,
I'm not here to help you. I merely came here for information from certain people in certain locations. That's it
Thats all i needed. Ill stick with system play. Thanks
Another top guy (imo) is Spike. Now dont laugh, he might be "pumped up" once in a while but he seems to of been around the block multiple times, a sharp guy!!
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Mar 28, 09:37 AM 2016
Thats why I commented regarding KTF, so in 54 days its a HG (or a great method)? Cant be, not that fast. My guideline is >> After 5 years on the board, if the thread is still very ACTIVE with CLAIMS of making tens of thousands, only at that point will I take a LITTLE bit of notice. Questions.....name me a 5 year method on this board that is "very" active still today. If you cant find one, why not?
Also, do you feel the KTF thread will still be active 5 years from now? If no, why not?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changing the subject >> imo, the biggest issue on this board is, whether or not its ok to jump on any thread (method or other) you dont agree with? I am ALWAYS fair and see both sides.
A) A method is posted and you dont agree with it. Is it "starting trouble" to POLITELY ask questions and give your point of view? I'm not talking about this moron >> "you'll never win you damn loser SOB, rot in hell"!!!! (lol) Not talking about that guy.
B) The opposite, say nothing and leave the thread alone? Like I said, I'm in the middle on this, I see both sides.
Ken
Anyone? >> Questions.....name me a 5 year method on this board that is "very" active still today. If you cant find one, why not?
Also, do you feel the KTF thread will still be active 5 years from now? If no, why not?
Ken
I'm still too new but it doesn't look like there are any threads from 5 years ago that are still going strongly. That could be for a few reasons: #1) the people made their money and stopped playing #2) The method sucked and everyone lost money #3) People got distracted and wanted a "new" method to make money faster and easier with less drawdown and yada yada.
I feel #3 is most likely. Most people don't stick with an idea or concept long enough to really flesh it out and learn it inside out nor stick with it long enough to learn if it's truly profitable or not.
#2 being second most likely. Let's face it, some ideas and methods just plain suck.
I don't think the KTF thread will still be going 5 years from now. I feel most players will either find something a little more simple as they don't want to learn KTF and this "count" stuff inside out (I only use quotes cause I'm not 100% sure I understand how to track this count stuff)... or the players playing it will stop posting because they found it to eventually lose too much too often... or they start winning enough that they don't feel like posting anymore.
What the purpose behind your question though MrJ? What point are you tracking to make us aware of?
Again, Kens opinion.
If a method really is GREAT, it would still be a TOP thread, even 5 years later. Why? What about the people that want to learn it or ask questions to the authors of the method? Successful players perhaps STILL posting of nice profits etc.
Maybe a tweak in the method over 5 years? Maybe bragging how good it STILL is? If its THAT GOOD, it doesn't just die out, trust me.
Ken
Hmm... good points!
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 05:14 PM 2016
Turner...
Azim...
Guys,
I'm not here to help you. I merely came here for information from certain people in certain locations. That's it.
Along the way, I may offer some advice but that's it. Not to insult anyone...but the infection of ignorance runs way to deep for many of the systems players to be "saved" by anyone.
That was proved 12 years ago when you attacked Winkel and had him stop.
It's people like you who make the world for what it is now.. IGNORANT
this is the guy that caused Winkle to stop!!
NO
what a jerk
Seriously. Someone puts in hard work. And tests and explanations then you come rain on the parade
WHY if you dont believe this stuff why come?
Defeats the whole damn purpose of the board now im pissed off
One man does such damage
Shouldve been ignored from the start!
Cut off
Quote from: MrJ on Mar 28, 05:33 PM 2016
Anyone? >> Questions.....name me a 5 year method on this board that is "very" active still today. If you cant find one, why not?
Also, do you feel the KTF thread will still be active 5 years from now? If no, why not?
Ken
Ken, Like I said to Steve, there are very nice systems on the forum. Not everyone is blessed to understand them.
Take an example of this one, I am still trying to understand it, It has merit. Again, the math guys will defer.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=9330.0
There are still the same fallacies going on here. From link:://:.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ :
FICTION: You Only Need a Short-Term Winning Strategy
There are many strategies that aim to win perhaps +1 unit each day. It will hardly cover the cost of car parking. But still let’s use this as an example and say your goal was to win just +1 unit. It seems simple enough, right? Many players have claimed they have a holy grail that will win a set amount per day, but the strategy’s rules require you to leave after winning the target amount.
Ask yourself:
1. * If the strategy worked, wouldn’t playing more mean winning more?
2. * What if 10,000 players all used the same system? Would they all win +1 unit?
3. * What if 1 player used the same system 10,000 times?
A roulette strategy either wins in the long-term, or loses in the long-term. Whether you bet on just 1 spin, or 1,000 spins, the casino will have the same edge over you. That is unless you are able to change the odds of winning.
Seriously, nobody is going to ever play 2M spins. If you are using this argument to validate a system as effective, you are missing the point, and dont understand the house edge.
QuoteAbout the multi player game, Steve, will we be able to see past spins?
If you mean the marquee showing last spins, yes.
1. As general said, "advantage play" means the player has an advantage. Any advantage player system increases the accuracy of predictions. VB is just one way of doing that.
2. There is always this bullshit divide between system players and APs. Actually its more the system players that have the problem with APs, because they dont like what we say. All we say is "you need to improve your odds of winning". It's not arrogance or ignorance. It's simple fact.
3. VB is NOT complicated. It's remarkably simple. On the right wheel, you can begin betting and profiting after 30 or so spins. Is that a lot of data? See the free VB technique on my home page. Really to criticize VB is like criticizing physics itself. Its just ONE way of achieving an edge (improving odds). RBRBRBRBRRRBR etc is no comparison.
4. Every system that works uses past data. BUT the difference is a losing method expects after RBRBRBRB than R will spin next. Whereas VB looks at how far the ball will usually bounce, based on testing. It's very different use of previous data.
5. General HAS explained it in english many times, as have I. Now he's being asked to explain it again. It's really simple. The payouts are unfair for the odds. For example, a single number pays 35-1, but the odds are 1 in 37. If the payout was fair, it would be 36-1 (not 35-1). The only way to overcome this is to improve your odds, to something like 30-1. That's all AP is. Increasing your odds. Arguing against AP is not just like arguing against what works, it IS arguing against what works.
If you want something of substance, again it has been repeated so many times. But it isnt being understood: The payouts are unfair for the odds. For example, a single number pays 35-1, but the odds are 1 in 37. If the payout was fair, it would be 36-1 (not 35-1). The only way to overcome this is to improve your odds, to something like 30-1.
6. To summarize Thorp, you need to increase accuracy of predictions. Again the concept is very simple.
7. I read the original GUT thread with Herb's "attacks". I didnt see them as attacks at all. He was actually pointing out some facts, and was Herb attacked for that. He was not raining on anyone's parade, unless you consider "pointing out the obvious" to be raining on the parade.
The experienced members know Herb/General is one of the more experienced members. But the information he is trying to convey is something even an inexperienced AP would know. I'm not being condescending, ignorant or arrogant. Just look at the basic science. Its right there in front of your nose.
Steve, I guess we all see things differently.
I will leave it at that for now.
Id take a lesson from winkel or twocat sam or GLC anyday over general
VB is simple?
Link please
RG, see link:://:.roulettephysics.com/#visual-ballistics-using-eyesight-to-predict-winning-numbers
Basically:
1. Use one of many simple techniques to estimate when the ball is at a specific speed. At this speed, the ball may have perhaps 6 revolutions to go.
2. At the point in step 1 above, note which number is beneath the diamond. Call this number "A".
3. Where the ball lands is number "B"
4. Chart distance between A and B. Repeat the step for however many spins you need.
5. Look for "peaks" groups of high bars in chart, and bet chips based on the distance between number "A" and location of the peak(s).
There you have it. As basic as VB gets. Whether or not it works depends on the wheel and conditions you play in.
VB techniques can get a lot more complicated and more accurate, but some are unrealistic and difficult despite the logic being sound.
But anyway all this is pretty much meaningless unless you understand WHY you need to increase accuracy of predictions. I suggest everyone just focus on that one point before anything. Do that, then you will understand what we're harping on about.
Quote from: Azim on Mar 28, 05:05 PM 2016
Now it really shows how ignorant you are to the game.
I disagree, I think that what Caleb doesnt know about Roulette isnt worth knowing.
I have great respect for his knowledge
He is a clever bloke but unfortunately he is a rubbish oratorQuote from: The General on Mar 28, 05:14 PM 2016
I'm not here to help you.
Well its a good job your heros, Thorpe and Barnhardt didnt take that approach or you would be stuffed.
Regarding VB, I have always wondered if betting on the numbers most clustered on the wheel, is a short cut for VB?
Ken
i have thought to see if any of the older airball wheels at my local casino have a dominant diamond
Sorry, but the Winkel stuff was nonsense. If you don't comprehend why, then try eating some comfort food. Try a chocolate chip cookie.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 06:44 PM 2016
Sorry, but the Winkel stuff was nonsense. If you don't comprehend why, then try eating some comfort food. Try a chocolate chip cookie.
chunky.
Or better yet...one of the really good peanut butter cookies from Subway!
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 06:51 PM 2016
Or better yet...one of the really good peanut butter cookies from Subway!
Ive never had a visual for you before but Im definatly getting a wasteline visual right now
QuoteId take a lesson from winkel or twocat sam or GLC anyday over general
Unlike most, I do this for a living and have been doing so before many of you were born.
Cousins Subs has the best choc chip cookies!!
Ken
subway does have the best choc chip cookies
but its GMO poison so i avoid it usually
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 28, 07:03 PM 2016
subway does have the best choc chip cookies
but its GMO poison so i avoid it usually
Do you have Cousins Subs?
Ken
QuoteIve never had a visual for you before but Im definatly getting a wasteline visual right now
(link:://orig12.deviantart.net/e114/f/2012/062/c/e/the_general_from_johnny_test_by_tangela24-d4rky4s.jpg)
GMOs grow hair on your chest.
.
Furthermore I like extra glycophosphate on my sandwhich. Better living through chemistry!
Most of the posts General has made here are correct. I agree with common sense aka General, Steve about AP and math guys. But the way General writes his posts is pure salt. LOL :)
@general you make good points which I agree. But you are too offensive on your explanations. That's what they don't like.
no.
let me clarify what i personally do not like
the assumption that people shove methods down throats and say it never ever loses
who is anyone to say how the game should be played and its being played wrong when its a NEGATIVE EXPECTATION game
he came at people like they claim to make a living
the comments of it will fail and you should know why
people enjoy strategy and playing and some do quite well
the AP posts, VB posts, and increasing accuracy posts are annoying....
why do you have to interrupt someone who worked on a strategy, spent hours upon hours, making and uploading tests (like notto) to just say "it wont work and you should know why". thats the biggest load of bull shit i ever seen! leave the man alone. its a forum and this is what hes doing. go play VB then...
now if you tell someone "it wont work and you should know why" put up or shut up, go test some spins and SHOW me it fails
i dont blame winkel
“Work hard in silence, let your success be your noise.â€
-Frank Ocean
its a spit in the face
40 pages of uploading daily sheets followed up with "it wont work"
come on give me a breakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
if you are going to engage in that type of way with a one liner, man up, grow a set, whip out some spins and SHOW me it fails
Basically, what you're saying is that math, common sense, and logic are annoying.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 08:27 PM 2016
Basically, what you're saying is that math, common sense, and logic are annoying.
step 1 ) read ktf
step 2 ) learn it
step 3 ) take a log of your spins, test it. post the test. and
SHOW ME it fails
RouletteGhost,
I've already explained why in adequate detail. See post reply #36.
ok
i will take your word for it
when you
show me
seriously is it that hard to take a log of your spins and post your test of it. show us. prove it. guys like notto PROVES it works. so PROVE it does not
My thoughts on long run. There are guys that say " I don't care for long run. I care for the length of my session 100 200 500 spins. I make profit in these spins so I don't care what will happen if I play continuously for 1M 1M spins"
WRONG!!!
What they don't see (and I don't know why. It's so obvious) is that when when they stop at 200 500 spins in profit, the next time /session they start again from new bankroll thinking it's totally new game. It's not. It's only like having click "save" on previous session and load game from there. The new spins of the new session are not the first 200 500 for their system. It's the next Ones AFTER 500 they stopped. So actually they are now into 1000 spins. They keep on building long run. They dont just start new spin counting for their system. They continue from previous 500!
So when it is said it won't work in the long run it counts all the short runs that are thought seperate! They are not. It's just long run disguised in short run clothes.
The only way to call it short run is if you play a SPECIFIC system for just 200-500 spins AND never use it again! EVER! All other cases are added in the system's long run counter :)
PS: that's why I disagree with the terms WIn Limit, LImit Loss StopLoss. I think IMHO they are useless!
if i was a moderator i would push the forum owner to implement ONE rule
if you interject into a thread saying it wont work you MUST post a test showing it not working.......if not comment deleted
otherwise forum integrity is degraded and long time members become insulted, all because YOU SAY SO
doesnt fly
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 28, 08:34 PM 2016
if i was a moderator i would push the forum owner to implement ONE rule
if you interject into a thread saying it wont work you MUST post a test showing it not working.......if not comment deleted
Agree on that. My problem is I don't know how to code on RouletteXTreme or using C++ Or Java Oracle etc. That's why I know by the maths backing me when a system fails and when not. But I can't design it in million spins as proof. So I just prefer to STFU instead of saying it won't work. While though theoritically I know I'm right I can't code shit to prove it :)
The house edge consumes roulette systems long before they reach the "long run". Below are a couple of very crude simple formulas to help you understand why.
Compare the two below.
1. Luck = Variance. Variance = (3 or 4) x (the square root of the total number of spins played) (the 3 or 4 represents standard deviations. If you prefer a high confidence level, then use 4 or even 5.)
verses
2. The house edge = (5.26% or 2.7%) x (the total number of spins played.)
Try inputting 50, 500, 5000, and 20k in place of the total number of spins. If you input various amounts of spins then you will find that after 5k to 10k spins that your luck runs out and the house edge becomes a larger value than luck (variance).
Quote from: BellagioOwner on Mar 28, 08:40 PM 2016
Agree on that. My problem is I don't know how to code on RouletteXTreme or using C++ Or Java Oracle etc. That's why I know by the maths backing me when a system fails and when not. But I can't design it in million spins as proof. So I just prefer to STFU instead of saying it won't work. While though theoritically I know I'm right I can't code shit to prove it :)
anything fails in 1 mill spins i believe. unless it a progression
Quoteif i was a moderator i would push the forum owner to implement ONE rule
if you interject into a thread saying it wont work you MUST post a test showing it not working.......if not comment deleted
otherwise forum integrity is degraded and long time members become insulted, all because YOU SAY SO
doesnt fly
RouletteGhost,
Please revisit post number 36. The proof is right there. If you disagree with what's written, then please explain which part is incorrect rather than posting the same thing over and over.
source 1
put one's money where one's mouth is
phrase of money
1.
informal
take action to support one's statements or opinions.
source 2
put your money where your mouth is informal› to show by ​your ​actions and not just ​your words that you ​support or ​believe in something
(link:://bigmouthbarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Money1.jpg)
I will wait for that KTF test big guy
Steve,
I had to comment on this...
4. Chart distance between A and B. Repeat the step for however many spins you need.
You guys are just putting words in peoples mouth.
What has previous spins got to do with future spins? Isn'that what all Math guys say?
Please explain... That statement to me.
Why a slow progression that knows how much to continue in bad times (that's not stop loss) not to be counted for the 1m threshold? I think some progressions can pass 1M spins in profit. (actual 1m bets. No wait triggers etc....)
I have a couple or 3 in mind that some COULD pass! Does anyone knows how to code them? They can PM me.
Quote from: BellagioOwner on Mar 28, 08:51 PM 2016
Why a slow progression that knows how much to continue in bad times (that's not stop loss) not to be counted for the 1m threshold? I think some progressions can pass 1M spins in profit. (actual 1m bets. No wait triggers etc....)
I have a couple or 3 in mind that some COULD pass! Does anyone knows how to code them? They can PM me.
contact nickmsi
he has helped me before
very very nice guy
cant guarantee he will help you, maybe he was free when i asked.....
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 08:29 PM 2016
RouletteGhost,
I've already explained why in adequate detail. See post reply #36.
your explanation is not satisfactory in my book
i need a visual
a test sheet please
so far today you have posted in winkels gut thread and made comments about ktf
so i need to see a test sheet from you for either
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 08:42 PM 2016
The house edge consumes roulette systems long before they reach the "long run". Below are a couple of very crude simple formulas to help you understand why.
Compare the two below.
1. Luck = Variance. Variance = (3 or 4) x (the square root of the total number of spins played) (the 3 or 4 represents standard deviations. If you prefer a high confidence level, then use 4 or even 5.)
verses
2. The house edge = (5.26% or 2.7%) x (the total number of spins played.)
Try inputting 50, 500, 5000, and 20k in place of the total number of spins. If you input various amounts of spins then you will find that after 5k to 10k spins that your luck runs out and the house edge becomes a larger value than luck (variance).
Agree on variances. I had checked them out in coin flip situations and EC bets. They were useful on some testing on d'Alembert ideas. Comparing them to house edge is interesting though I must admit
Quoteif you interject into a thread saying it wont work you MUST post a test showing it not working.......if not comment deleted
otherwise forum integrity is degraded and long time members become insulted, all because YOU SAY SO
No if we removed posts for that reason, it would be a mess. And you are asking General to "show you", but it has already been shown many times. Not just by him, but me too.
Regarding something that was mentioned: yes at times Caleb (General) can be arrogant. And he will "play" with less experienced members, but in most cases, only when provoked. RG calm down, this whole thing is nothing personal. Caleb answered your question and again I've provided ample information to explain what we mean. But it doesnt appear to be understood. Consider:
1. What I said about odds vs payouts, and why you must improve the odds to win roulette
2. Every losing system uses the same approaches that have already proven to fail. I mean approaches like "wait 10 spins then bet on the sleepers". You dont need someone like me or Caleb to tell you it doesnt change the odds. Just do the testing and see for yourself, like with the free software I published. Thats what its for. Then when you see the odds dont change, you can see the system is no better than random bet selection. The odds havent changed. And thats why it loses. Thats your proof.
Quote
The General
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Re: Holy Grail By Winkel.
« Reply #589 on: Yesterday at 10:49:48 PM »
Quote
Guys,
You shouldn't have to test this to know that it won't work.
ok I am ready to see your first test of GUT showing it failing
I hope others can see that after enough time has passed, the house edge is the biggest reason that they will lose, and remain a loser.
Variance = Luck. Contrary to popular belief, variance is the gambler's friend... if they don't have the edge over the casino. Without variance, then they simply can't win.
Holy crap this thread is out of control. Too many posts to keep up.
Azim:
QuoteChart distance between A and B. Repeat the step for however many spins you need.
You guys are just putting words in peoples mouth. What has previous spins got to do with future spins? Isn'that what all Math guys say?
It's like saying if you drop a rubber ball 10 times, from a height of 100cm, and it bounces around 30cm each time.... then that's looking at past data to predict future drops. In this case, its the right way to look at history.
But the "losing systems" would take an approach like "consider the moon's position, the day of the week, the hour of the day,... and try and correlate the ball bounce to those variables". It just doesnt work. You need to look at history that relates to the real world and actually has a direct influence on results.
Putting it into perspective:
The past sequence of RBRBRBRB etc has NO INFLUENCE on the future RBRBRB etc.
Rouletteghost,
The number of pockets on the wheel determines the probability of winning.
If the same number of pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next, then how could the probability of winning possibly change based on what has or has not hit on the prior spins? What is the physical force that could possible enable past spins to reach forward in time from the past and change the odds? Is it the strong, weak, gravity, or electromagnetic? Or is it magic? Pick one. Explain how the time travel of the past numbers is possible!
(link:://:.oocities.org/timemachine_nz/images/time_machine_04.jpg)
Winkel's GUT system was nothing more than a goofy attempt to exploit the "law of the third". Since it each spin of the wheel is an independent event, and since the system was in no way designed to exploit a defective gaming device, and since it did not improve the players ability to predict where the ball would likely impact the wheel on the next spin, it was a foolish waste of words.
In the end, it's because of "since" .
Now take heart..I won't post anything else in this thread to bring anyone down. I don't want to do that. So feel free to come up with a zillion different reasons as to why I'm wrong, so that you can justify your cause and to continue onward with your dream and believe system.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 09:01 PM 2016
Holy crap this thread is out of control. Too many posts to keep up.
its the right way to look at history.
its the right way to look at history.....in YOUR opinion
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 09:02 PM 2016
Rouletteghost,
The number of pockets on the wheel determine the probability of winning.
If the same number of pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next, then how could the probability of winning possibly change based on what has or has not hit on the prior spins? What is the physical force that could possible enable past spins to reach forward in time from the past and change the odds? Is it the strong, weak, gravity, or electromagnetic? Or is it magic? Pick one.
Winkel's GUT system was nothing more than a goofy attempt to exploit the "law of the third". Since it each spin of the wheel is an independent event, and since the system was in no way designed to exploit a defective gaming device, and since it did not improve the players ability to predict where the ball would likely impact the wheel on the next spin, it was a foolish waste of words.
In the end, it's because of "since" .
Now take heart..I won't post anything else in this thread to bring anyone down. I don't want to do that. So feel free to come up with a zillion different reasons as to why I'm wrong, so that you can justify your cause and to continue onward with your dream and believe system.
i am not debating that with you. a defective device and visual ballistics WORKS
what i am asking from you is a test showing GUT failing
and you are not providing that
so your words are empty
and if i was a VB player i sure as shit would not be here Id be winning somewhere
i dont care if GUT works or doesnt work. i dont care if KTF works or doesnt work. but back your words up. wheres the test
I wonder how The General would react to the Remote Viewing crowd
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Quoteits the right way to look at history.....in YOUR opinion
RG:
1. Truth is not an "opinion"
2. To know what is truth, test. Do your own testing to see if methods like "the law of a third" can at all be used to change the odds.
Regarding the law of a third, some numbers will be repeats, some wont repeat. So what? It is common sense. But it doesnt tell you WHICH numbers will repeat or not hit. I mean I've never personally see every number spin once each in 37 spins. I dont think i'll ever see that.
QuoteI wonder how The General would react to the Remote Viewing crowd
If he had an open mind, he'd probably say it is possible. At least more possible than trying to beat roulette without changing the odds. Like trying to make 1+1=5
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 09:10 PM 2016
I've never personally see every number spin once each in 37 spins. I dont think i'll ever see that.
About that. This is true. The odds is like playing 10 bets per second 24/7 365 for the age age of the universe*10 and you would still wait for it to happen! LOL!
There is a funny but TOO costly progression on that. Totally for fun and unplayable IRL but would have been surefire for 100 years of play in B&M casino. :)
Steve,
Do you want me to answer to your reply #140 on this thread or can we leave it as everyone sees things differently and leave at that?
Surely you can agree there's a difference between perception and truth.
Yes.
At the same time you have to agree too with what I have said.
A fruit with color red can be an apple or plum however some might see it as a tomato.
Everyone looks at things differently.
See here is a good example.
Text message from husband to wife:
"Wish you were her".
He meant
"Wish you were here"
Words get mis read or thoughts get mis-interpreated.
Yeah but you are still talking about perception. A specific red fruit is only one thing. It doesnt matter who sees it as what. It doesnt change what it is.
And someone's incorrect spelling is very different from mathematical fact. Its like saying 1+1=3 for some people, but 1+1=2 for other people.
Anyway we are going in circles and its better to agree to disagree. And again I hope the multiplayer roulette will be a good argument resolver.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 11:35 PM 2016
Yeah but you are still talking about perception. A specific red fruit is only one thing. It doesnt matter who sees it as what. It doesnt change what it is.
And someone's incorrect spelling is very different from mathematical fact. Its like saying 1+1=3 for some people, but 1+1=2 for other people.
Anyway we are going in circles and its better to agree to disagree. And again I hope the multiplayer roulette will be a good argument resolver.
Hope fully for those that play it.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 08:59 PM 2016
I hope others can see that after enough time has passed, the house edge is the biggest reason that they will lose, and remain a loser.
Variance = Luck. Contrary to popular belief, variance is the gambler's friend... if they don't have the edge over the casino. Without variance, then they simply can't win.
Amen
No matter what clever, ingenious and creative method/system/tool (whatever you want to call it) you use to get to where you place chips on the carpet, a snapshot of those chips "in the moment" is subject to the HE.
Unless, you can prove mathematically that your bet selection has a better edge than the HE.
Thats where I am....with common sense.
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 09:32 AM 2016
Unless, you can prove mathematically that your bet selection has a better edge than the HE.
Amen on this but not on variance = luck. If variance is luck you will never be able to figure out a bet selection mathematically that has an edge better than HE. Variance follows the laws of statistics, it's not mere luck. Also variance is gamblers friend may not be completely true, only partially. There is more to roulette than physics. Those who have had success using physics and not through maths are blind to see it as pockets, those who are having success with maths are able to see it as numbers and not pockets. One cannot see it with one eye.
QuoteIf variance is luck you will never be able to figure out a bet selection mathematically that has an edge better than HE. Variance follows the laws of statistics, it's not mere luck. Also variance is gamblers friend may not be completely true, only partially.
As far as the gambler is concerned variance is a double edged sword. It's your bad luck, and it's your good luck. Variance is described by statistics, and calculated by using math.
Roulette is won in the long term by exploiting the wheel, not the layout.
Attempting to beat the random "game" of roulette is a fool's folly.
then we bet our god luck and bad luck see what comes more... :xd:
[quote author=The General link=topic=16774.msg150932#msg150932 date=1459356655
Roulette is won in the long term by exploiting the wheel, not the layout.
Attempting to beat the random "game" of roulette is a fool's folly.
[/quote]
Only if you see the game as random. The game is not random after all
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 12:50 PM 2016
As far as the gambler is concerned variance is a double edged sword. It's your bad luck, and it's your good luck. Variance is described by statistics, and calculated by using math.
Roulette is won in the long term by exploiting the wheel, not the layout. thats the best bit of hot air he's said
Attempting to beat the random "game" of roulette is a fool's folly.
I agree with priyanka
Its not as random as we think
There are LIMITS
we know a unique dozen formation wont repeat 4 times. We know red wont hit 30 times. We know 37 uniques wont hit in 37 spins
Things can be exploited
THATS why triggers work if they mean something
I love when priyanka says it has limits. So true!
Look at your past spins if u wish. I bet you wont see dozen formation 123 123 123 (3 times in a row)
Thats why if i see a uniqie dozen formation repeat and im at the wheel you better believe im going in hard
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 03:21 PM 2016
Look at your past spins if u wish. I bet you wont see dozen formation 123 123 123 (3 times in a row)
Thats why if i see a unique dozen formation repeat and im at the wheel you better believe im going in hard
I'm afraid it's not that simple. Every combination will happen soon or later, only very extremes won't, but then you would have to wait 100k spins for one trigger.
It's very useful to have basic office skills so you can see what could happen. I've just generated 10k random numbers from 0 to 37, converted them to dozens, and look what I have found.
(link:://i.imgur.com/fO7ZrAj.jpg)
Believing that 123123123 won't happen is the same as believing that 210233221 won't happen.
I am curious. Whats the source of these numbers
Thanks ati
These were generated by excel, so yeah it's rng >:D
But I'm very sure it happens live too every once in a while.
Quote from: ati on Mar 30, 04:56 PM 2016
These were generated by excel, so yeah it's rng >:D
But I'm very sure it happens live too every once in a while.
Ive seen a repeat of unique dozen formation but never 3 or 4 times like u have shown
Rng.......
So very very rare if it does
I dont view rng as behaving like a wheel
If anyone has 123123123 with real wheel spins let me know
I thank you for the result but i dont coorelate rng with real wheel. No offense to you
Now, i think RNG can be fair and random. But i know it wont behave like a roulette wheel
Maybe im wrong...
Humans code these things to so there has to be a slight touch of pre determination
I understand that, and just for fun, I will do the same test with live spins tomorrow. It's getting late here. (link:://i.imgur.com/TDc6v4K.gif)
is 123123123 different then 321321321 or 231231231......because if you think it is and wont happen you better pull your head out of the sand
Quote from: keepontryin on Mar 30, 05:14 PM 2016
is 123123123 different then 321321321 or 231231231......because if you think it is and wont happen you better pull your head out of the sand
Why would i think 123123123 was any way special as opposed to 321321321. Thats a silly accusation and it was obviously an example. I could have said 231231231. Any unique formation...
I was using 123 as an example
Of course 123123123 formation can happen. But how often? Ive never seen it and ive studied multiple thousands of spins
Id be in profit by the time i lost....thats my point
Quote from: ati on Mar 30, 05:13 PM 2016
I understand that, and just for fun, I will do the same test with live spins tomorrow. It's getting late here. (link:://i.imgur.com/TDc6v4K.gif)
Maybe we will learn something from that test
Thanks ati
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 05:19 PM 2016
But how often? Ive never seen it and ive studied multiple thousands of spins
12/36 = 0.32432
0.32432
9 = 0.0000397023
1/0.0000397023 = 25187
So once every 25187 spins
Same as any 9 combinations
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 05:48 PM 2016
12/36 = 0.32432
0.324329 = 0.0000397023
1/0.0000397023 = 25187
So once every 25187 spins
Same as any 9 combinations
Thank you
So if i see a uniwie sequence repeat it would be a DECENT bet to bet it wont happen again. in my opinion
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 05:59 PM 2016
Thank you
So if i see a uniwie sequence repeat it would be a DECENT bet to bet it wont happen again. in my opinion
But you have to bet against all 9 not being 123123123, and thats some progression. You cant jump in at 7 and say it wont be another 123 after 123123
That is 123 and it occurs on average every 29 spins
so think about this....
You see 123123 and you say, 123123123 is once every 25K spins.
But so is 112131
123 and is also once ever 25K
So, whether you see 123123 or anything else, or dont look at all at the history.
Just bet against 123 occuring. Its all the same thing. A 3.4% chance or once in 29 spins
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 06:01 PM 2016
But you have to bet against all 9 not being 123123123, and thats some progression. You cant jump in at 7 and say it wont be another 123 after 123123
That is 123 and it occurs on average every 29 spins
right i agree
but physically seeing 123123123 is very very rare.....i have NEVER seen it
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 06:06 PM 2016
right i agree
but physically seeing 123123123 is very very rare.....i have NEVER seen it
I edited ...it was this
so think about this....
You see 123123 and you say, 123123123 is once every 25K spins.
But so is 112131
123 and is also once ever 25K
So, whether you see 123123 or anything else, or dont look at all at the history.
Just bet against 123 occuring. Its all the same thing. A 3.4% chance or once in 29 spins
i understand what you are saying
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 06:15 PM 2016
i understand what you are saying
Its a perfect example of how the wheel has no memory.
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 06:20 PM 2016
Its a perfect example of how the wheel has no memory.
the wheel has no memory thats right
and 123 has the same chance of occuring everytime.........i dont know i just see something else deep within
same as we wont see 30 blacks
math says black has same chance everytime...but will we see 30 in a row? unlikely we will see 15 in a row...similar idea
math says dont use past spins. because number 30 has same chance of hitting everytime, but will we get 10 number 30s in a row?
THATS how i looks at dozen sequences. 123123123123 can happen but will it
rg you are missing the point. What you saying doesnt help increase your odds. Remember odds and payouts are very different things.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 30, 06:29 PM 2016
rg you are missing the point. What you saying doesnt help increase your odds. Remember odds and payouts are very different things.
Ok. Forget odds. I dont want to increase the odds
The odds are the same every spin
What im saying is this: 30 wont hit 10 times in a row. Black wont hit 25 times in a row. 123 dozen sequence wont happen 4 times in a row
This is what i am exploring
The ODDS are the same. I get that
Odd has the same 48 percent chance every spin. But it wont hit 36 times in a row
It all goes back to : roulette is random but it has limits
You have just said: "I want to make random bets with no better than random accuracy"
Quote30 wont hit 10 times in a row. Black wont hit 25 times in a row. 123 dozen sequence wont happen 4 times in a row
Yes it will, eventually. And with the same probability as any other sequence. That's what you're not understanding yet. Trust me RG, when you understand this point you'll be kicking yourself. Trust me, we've all been there before.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 30, 06:40 PM 2016
You have just said: "I want to make random bets with no better than random accuracy"
Yes it will, eventually. And with the same probability as any other sequence. That's what you're not understanding yet. Trust me RG, when you understand this point you'll be kicking yourself. Trust me, we've all been there before.
But i do understand. You are saying i dont understand the probability is the same. That is not true. I do understand that
But there are certain things that just wont happen. Number 30 ten times in a row for example.
Will not happen:
- numbers 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to come out consecutively
- a number to hit 10 times back to back
- a unique sequence to repeat 4 times
-35 blacks in a row
Etc
The odds and probabilities are the same. But it wont happen. Why?
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 06:23 PM 2016
the wheel has no memory thats right
and 123 has the same chance of occuring everytime.........i dont know i just see something else deep within
same as we wont see 30 blacks
math says black has same chance everytime...but will we see 30 in a row? unlikely we will see 15 in a row...similar idea
math says dont use past spins. because number 30 has same chance of hitting everytime, but will we get 10 number 30s in a row?
THATS how i looks at dozen sequences. 123123123123 can happen but will it
You are right and wrong.
What are you going to do with your proposition?
The only thing to do to make your proposition have the maths advantage you have calculated is to sit at the table....dont look at the marque and say "there is a 25k to 1 chance that 123123123 wont happen"
first bet is 1u on D2 and 1u on D3. lose
Second bet is 3u on D1 and 3u on D3. lose
third bet is 9u on D1 and 9u on D2 lose
A third the way through this and 26u down
Do you continue?
next bet is 27u on D2 and 27u on D3
By the way, what is min bet for Dozens on your airball?
1231 isnt so rare is it?
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 06:43 PM 2016
Will not happen:
- numbers 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to come out consecutively
- a number to hit 10 times back to back
- a unique sequence to repeat 4 times
-35 blacks in a row
Etc
The odds and probabilities are the same. But it wont happen. Why?
RG, somethings in life are meant to be. If you are one of those that believe in things happening. It will happen. Not to that extent.
If, you go back to Nottos, daily files from Jackpot 247. If my memory serves right, there was a sequence of numbers that had happened. up to 4.
I can't remember the exact numbers but it did happen as example 10,11,12,13 this is an example not the exact numbers on the file.
So, when LUCK is not with you, it will happen.
This is the way i am looking at
You guys say it has the same odds every spin. And you are right. But WHY is there a limit
1) is number 30 hitting 12 times in a row the same probability as any 12 number combination? Yes
2) will 30 hit 12 times in a row? No
See?
You are asking the wrong question.
It WILL happen but that's not the point, because you'll find it still doesn't tell you, with any increase in accuracy, which numbers will spin next. You will find this from either lots of experimentation and wasted time, or the math.
To keep it simple, remember that every spin is independent, with the same probability (odds) on each spin. So WHY would a sequence of previous numbers make any difference? HOW could it increase accuracy of predictions? It doesnt.
Quote from: Azim on Mar 30, 06:48 PM 2016
RG, somethings in life are meant to be. If you are one of those that believe in things happening. It will happen. Not to that extent.
If, you go back to Nottos, daily files from Jackpot 247. If my memory serves right, there was a sequence of numbers that had happened. up to 4.
I can't remember the exact numbers but it did happen as example 10,11,12,13 this is an example not the exact numbers on the file.
So, when LUCK is not with you, it will happen.
well its not so much about luck than table limits.
Roulette is beatable by betting red with a martingale. They just wont let you place 10 steps, let alone the theoretical 30
Quote from: Steve on Mar 30, 06:54 PM 2016
To keep it simple, remember that every spin is independent, with the same probability (odds) on each spin. So WHY would a sequence of previous numbers make any difference? HOW could it increase accuracy of predictions? It doesnt.
thats the rub
Even if there were no table limits, the martingale would NOT work because eventually you will blow your bankroll. It would only work if you had both no table limit AND unlimited bankroll.
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 06:56 PM 2016
well its not so much about luck than table limits.
Roulette is beatable by betting red with a martingale. They just wont let you place 10 steps, let alone the theoretical 30
Back to the same thing. If luck was with you, you wouldn't have to go that far now, would you?
Quote from: Steve on Mar 30, 06:59 PM 2016
Even if there were no table limits, the martingale would NOT work because eventually you will blow your bankroll. It would only work if you had both no table limit AND unlimited bankroll.
my tongue was a little in my cheek, but I was making a point about how useless "limits of roulette" are
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 07:03 PM 2016
my tongue was a little in my cheek, but I was making a point about how useless "limits of roulette" are
I know, you were. But I was trying to Tell RG, no one might have noticed, but someone playing for that. Would have noticed the 4 series of numbers.
I propose we have more topics with Maths Boyz in the title. Ive enjoyed this one.
Quote from: Azim on Mar 30, 07:06 PM 2016
I know, you were. But I was trying to Tell RG, no one might have noticed, but someone playing for that. Would have noticed the 4 series of numbers.
sorry...I got giddy because I was excited :-\
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 06:43 PM 2016
Will not happen:
- numbers 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to come out consecutively
- a number to hit 10 times back to back
- a unique sequence to repeat 4 times
-35 blacks in a row
Etc
The odds and probabilities are the same. But it wont happen. Why?
RG. There is only one answer to your question.
the difference is between the specific sequence in which a particular event occurs and probability of it happening. If you take 123 it is a particular sequence. This has the same probability as 321 or 111 or 311.
Now 35 blacks in a row. Try understanding this. 2 spins. What is rare two blacks or one red and one black. Two blacks obviously. Why? Two blacks can happen in two spins only one way BB. One red and one black can happen two ways RB and BR.
The situation changes if you ask whether RB is rare or BB is rare. Both have equal chances.
That is why 35 blacks is so rare than 10 blacks and 25 reds. However the sequence with 35 blacks and any other 35 ec sequence is the same.
This is not the problem. The problem is whether you can take advantage of this fact? If you have to take advantage how will you.
True, to what Turner has said about TOPIC with MATH GUYS AS TITLE.. However, There should be a clearance between which math boys.
See everyone looks at Math boys as being Roulette math boys.
I for one, will 100% agree to what they are saying to a novice.
However, the other math guys are your statistician who love to play with numbers. They eat, breath and sleep and do rest with numbers.
They would 100% agree with the Roulette math guys but Roulette math guys would never agree with them.
QuoteWhat is rare two blacks or one red and one black. Two blacks obviously. Why? Two blacks can happen in two spins only one way BB. One red and one black can happen two ways RB and BR.
This isnt true. BB is the same as BB and RB and BR. BB and BB could be two different black numbers, but it wouldnt matter anyway because they have the same odds on each spin anyway.
QuoteOk. Forget odds. I dont want to increase the odds
The odds are the same every spin
What im saying is this: 30 wont hit 10 times in a row. Black wont hit 25 times in a row. 123 dozen sequence wont happen 4 times in a row
This is what i am exploring
The ODDS are the same. I get that
Odd has the same 48 percent chance every spin. But it wont hit 36 times in a row
Back in 2007, I watched red hit 26 times in a row at the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City.
But that's nothing compared to the following picture.
(link:://:.matsui-americainc.com/cms-themes/Default/images/display-board.png)
Do you realize just how rare of an event the reader board above actually is?
Extremely rare! Think about it...the odds of seeing those exact numbers in that exact order is astoundingly high!!!
My point to this is rare events happen every day at the roulette wheel. You're just not looking for most of them. Consider the odds of the last 100 numbers hitting in the exact order in which they just hit.
System Junkies,
You need to realize that you can't side step probability by waiting for "rare events" to happen. The house payout will always be short of what the odds say is fair when you're chasing your "rare events".
This includes the law of the third/gut nonsense.
If you believe otherwise, then all you have to do is look down and count the number of pockets that remain on the wheel after every rare event.
Quote from: Turner on Mar 30, 06:47 PM 2016
You are right and wrong.
What are you going to do with your proposition?
The only thing to do to make your proposition have the maths advantage you have calculated is to sit at the table....dont look at the marque and say "there is a 25k to 1 chance that 123123123 wont happen"
first bet is 1u on D2 and 1u on D3. lose
Second bet is 3u on D1 and 3u on D3. lose
third bet is 9u on D1 and 9u on D2 lose
A third the way through this and 26u down
Do you continue?
next bet is 27u on D2 and 27u on D3
By the way, what is min bet for Dozens on your airball?
1231 isnt so rare is it?
This is what Winkel was trying to teach everyone.
Read the situation and decide if you going to bet or want to stop.
He went as far as saying keep a diary and refer back to it.
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 07:37 PM 2016
System Junkies,
You need to realize that you can't side step probability by waiting for "rare events" to happen. The house payout will always be short of what the odds say is fair when you're chasing your "rare events".
This includes the law of the third/gut nonsense.
If you believe otherwise, then all you have to do is look down and count the number of pockets that remain on the wheel after every rare event.
Non sense is what you Roulette Math boys think others don't know.
Let me ask Steve again, does he want me to go through each and every point he has made on our reply #140 on this thread
That will really stop GENERAL from putting everyone down..
OR ARE WE ALL HERE TO HELP PEOPLE MAKE DECISIONS AND GUIDE THEM.
I WILL ASK 1 QUESTION:
HOW CAN ANYONE TEACH SOMEONE HOW TO THINK? [/font][/color]
I'm not sure as to which part it is that you so vehemently disagree with. Perhaps you can point out the part that you feel is incorrect?
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 07:32 PM 2016
Do you realize just how rare of an event the reader board above actually is?
The picture is a fake.
>>>>>>>
My point to this is rare events happen every day at the roulette wheel. AGREED
>>>>>>>
Consider the odds of the last 100 numbers hitting in the exact order in which they just hit. But why would anyone want to do that?
Of course the reader board pic is NOT real. My point is that reader board is just as rare as any other reader board.
Think about it...the 16 numbers on any reader board. Do you realize that you are the only person that will likely every witness those numbers in that exact order ever again???
Understand?
Quote from: Steve on Mar 30, 07:31 PM 2016
This isnt true. BB is the same as BB and RB and BR. BB and BB could be two different black numbers, but it wouldnt matter anyway because they have the same odds on each spin anyway.
Steve you didn't probably understand my explanation. Agree with you that BB is the same as BR or RB or RR. The point am saying is that is only when you consider the sequence.
We know there are 4 possibilities of spins. However seeing 2 blacks (BB) is rare than seeing 1 black and 1 red (RB, BR) because it can come in two possible sequences as opposed to 1 possible sequence. So the odds of seeing two blacks are 1/4 whereas the odds of seeing one black and one red is 1/2. Do you agree?
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 07:57 PM 2016
Think about it...the 16 numbers on any reader board. Do you realize that you are the only person that will likely every witness those numbers in that exact order ever again???
Understand?
But who is questioning this. I do not think there is anyone who disagrees this. What is the point you are trying to prove.
The General....that picture you posted, I find it hard to believe, I do not believe it actually. Id have to see THAT for myself. And stop being a jerk.
Everyone: I am enjoying this
a few points i want to make clear
1) I am not trying to change the odds
2) I am not trying to change the accuracy of predictions
What I am trying to investigate is: Every spin has the same probability
What amazes me is this:
having number 23 hit 10 times in a row has the same probability as ANY 10 number combination
Will 23 hit 10 times in a row? NO IT WILL NOT. Does 23 have the same odds of hitting 10 in a row as any combo? YES. (see my point)
So how much bearing does this have: The odds do not change
The chance of 35 blacks in a row have the same probability of being red the next spin as black....but 35 blacks WILL NOT happen
so dozen sequence 123 123 123 123 123 has the same probability of happening as 121 332 112 111 221 (or any other sequence) THE ODDS DO NOT CHANGE. but it will not happen!!
Thats what I am getting at
So Steve I would appreciate it if you would stop telling me that I do not understand it cant change predictions or odds BECAUSE I GET THAT. Thats not what my questions are about
QuoteThe chance of 35 blacks in a row have the same probability of being red the next spin as black....but 35 blacks WILL NOT happen
This will help you understand the flaw in your line of thinking. Think of how many possible ways that there are for the numbers/colors to hit in 35 spins. There are zillions of different possible patterns, but only ONE of the patterns is all black. In the end there are a gazillion more ways for black not to hit on all of the spins than there are for it to hit. But it's still one of the possible patterns, so it could still emerge as the winning pattern.
However, in the end, one equally extremelylylylyly rare pattern emerges as the winner at the end of the 35 spins. It's just that nobody was likely looking for that one specific pattern. But then again, there could be some guy having his mind blown...somewhere.
(And yes, I know you're not talking only about 35 spins. I merely limited the sample size to help make my point.)
>>>>>>>>so dozen sequence 123 123 123 123 123 has the same probability of happening as 121 332 112 111 221 (or any other sequence) THE ODDS DO NOT CHANGE. but it will not happen!!
One question for your rouletteghost. You are saying 123 123 123 123 123 will not happen. But what do you think about the other one 121 332 112 111 221. Will that happen? Or it will not happen. If you say that will not happen, then you already have your answer. If you say that will happen, then I offer to run through all the millions of spins from roulette wheel posted by ignatus in the thread link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16562.msg147178#msg147178 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16562.msg147178#msg147178) and show you how many times 123 123 123 123 123 has happened and how many times 121 332 112 111 221 has happened.
Quote from: Foolwise on Mar 30, 09:02 PM 2016
>>>>>>>>so dozen sequence 123 123 123 123 123 has the same probability of happening as 121 332 112 111 221 (or any other sequence) THE ODDS DO NOT CHANGE. but it will not happen!!
One question for your rouletteghost. You are saying 123 123 123 123 123 will not happen. But what do you think about the other one 121 332 112 111 221. Will that happen? Or it will not happen. If you say that will not happen, then you already have your answer. If you say that will happen, then I offer to run through all the millions of spins from roulette wheel posted by ignatus in the thread link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16562.msg147178#msg147178 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16562.msg147178#msg147178) and show you how many times 123 123 123 123 123 has happened and how many times 121 332 112 111 221 has happened.
Thats true. Lets exclude the zeros for a minute and jot down the last 18 outcomes. We put them in orders of three (column or dozen) . "Can that NEVER happen". Well, it just did.
Ken
can this MATHS be applied to roulette
does it deserve its own thread?
link:://phys.org/news/2007-05-law-digits-scientists.html
You'll enjoy this as well Zipf's Mystery
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=fCn8zs912OE
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 09:23 PM 2016
You'll enjoy this as well Zipf's Mystery
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=fCn8zs912OE
I posted this before (what else is new?).....its very good!
Ken
7 minutes into ZIPFS law video. i am flabbergasted
Thinking back...I think I did see it back when Ken posted it.
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 07:32 PM 2016
Back in 2007, I watched red hit 26 times in a row at the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City.
But that's nothing compared to the following picture.
(link:://:.matsui-americainc.com/cms-themes/Default/images/display-board.png)
Do you realize just how rare of an event the reader board above actually is?
Extremely rare! Think about it...the odds of seeing those exact numbers in that exact order is astoundingly high!!!
My point to this is rare events happen every day at the roulette wheel. You're just not looking for most of them. Consider the odds of the last 100 numbers hitting in the exact order in which they just hit.
this
will you swear on the very life you live that THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED
Ghost,
Of course the reader board pic is NOT real. My point is that reader board is just as rare as any other reader board.
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 09:58 PM 2016
Ghost,
Of course the reader board pic is NOT real. My point is that reader board is just as rare as any other reader board.
this is the point
that leader board has the same odds as any other leader board combo
but that leader board will NOT happen
that is my point
Quotethat leader board has the same odds as any other leader board combo
but that leader board will NOT happen
that is my point
Ok it might not ever happen in your lifetime. But might this happen in your lifetime?:
22
14
6
17
2
0
15
32
30
(link:://:.worthzero.com/images/banghead.gif)
(link:s://49.media.tumblr.com/37682ebecda6d94353cdc0544ada228c/tumblr_mjsq70B0sj1rv9jato1_250.gif)
(lol)...I dont know how you guys do those pics.
Ken
This plave follows zipf to a tee
80 percent struggle. 20 percent fun.
Quote from: Steve on Mar 28, 06:08 PM 2016
3. VB is NOT complicated. It's remarkably simple. On the right wheel, you can begin betting and profiting after 30 or so spins. Is that a lot of data? See the free VB technique on my home page. Really to criticize VB is like criticizing physics itself. Its just ONE way of achieving an edge (improving odds). RBRBRBRBRRRBR etc is no comparison.
If it works it has to work everywhere not just some wheels.
I will go one point at a time.Once and for all, let's clear the air between what Winkel has said and what General and you are saying.
Are you talking to me or Steve? Am I supposed to answer something?
Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 11:58 PM 2016
Are you talking to me or Steve? Am I supposed to answer something?
Let's clear the air on this. As long as both of you are on the same page with your answers.
I don't want it to be he said that and not me...
So lets bang heads considering you are ignorant and have no respect for people.
What is the question?
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:08 AM 2016
What is the question?
Exactly my POINT... IF YOU DONT KNOW DONT SAY A SYSTEM WILL NOT WORK. GO READ AND ANSWER.
Azim,
I like the passion in the red blood words, but is there supposed to be a question or something in those words?
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:15 AM 2016
Azim,
I like the passion in the red blood words, but is there supposed to be a question or something in those words?
READ AGAIN EXACTLY MY POINT. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY IT WON'T WORK.
READ THE SYSTEM BEFORE CLAIMING IT WONT WORK.
Are you talking about the KTF and or Winkel's system?
You can pick any you want.
QuoteAre you talking about the KTF and or Winkel's system?
Yep, neither of them work in the long run.
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:24 AM 2016
Yep, neither of them work in the long run.
YUP ON THE WRONG WHEEL!! NEITHER WILL THIS!!!
3. VB is NOT complicated. It's remarkably simple.
On the right wheel, you can begin betting and profiting after 30 or so spins. Is that a lot of data? See the free VB technique on my home page. Really to criticize VB is like criticizing physics itself. Its just ONE way of achieving an edge (improving odds). RBRBRBRBRRRBR etc is no comparison.
Quote3. VB is NOT complicated. It's remarkably simple. On the right wheel, you can begin betting and profiting after 30 or so spins. Is that a lot of data? See the free VB technique on my home page. Really. Its just ONE way of achieving an edge (improving odds). RBRBRBRBRRRBR etc is no comparison.
I'm sorry, but you've mistaken me for the international vb sales representative. I have nothing to sell and I am not that person. However, the quote above looks pretty accurate to me. I kind of like the part that says,
"Really to criticize VB is like criticizing physics itself."
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:30 AM 2016
I'm sorry, but you've mistaken me for the international vb sale representative. I have nothing to sell. However, the quote above looks pretty accurate to me.
GOOD FOR YOU... I THOUGHT YOU WOULD SAY THAT.
So you have nothing to offer but open your mouth. Once again.
QuoteSo you have nothing to offer but open your mouth. Once again.
(link:s://chelley325.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/img_9169-3.jpg)
A cookie?
I can also offer some facts, but those tend to go down kind of rough and they may give you indigestion.
Exactly...
Azim,
Do you like betting on numbers that have not hit?
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:40 AM 2016
Azim,
Do you like betting on numbers that have not hit?
Depends if the wheel is right.
Theoretically, that's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could exceed the house edge on live wheels.
If you don't want to play any kind of vb or similar, then your best bet would be to bet on the numbers that have hit the absolute most on live wheels or live machines. Avoid RNG machines like they're the plague.
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:54 AM 2016
Theoretically, that's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could exceed the house edge on live wheels.
Do you know how to get from 1 to 2?
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 12:59 AM 2016
If you don't want to play any kind of vb or similar, then your best bet would be to bet on the numbers that have hit the absolute most on live wheels or live machines. Avoid RNG machines like they're the plague.
REALLY!!!!!
Yep. Really. :)
My advice is FREE
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 01:02 AM 2016
Yep. Really. :)
My advice is FREE
Do you know how to get from 1 to 2?
QuoteDo you know how to get from 1 to 2?
Well, one time I drove from NY NY to Los Angeles, but I got lost along the way. Going from 1 to 2 looks like it could be a bit further, so I may need directions. :)
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 01:08 AM 2016
Well, one time I drove from NY NY to Los Angeles, but I got lost along the way. Going from 1 to 2 looks like it could be a bit further, so I may need directions. :)
Get the directions and come back and say it won't work.
Azim,
I'm sorry that you find logic is always in the way. It's not my intention to crush your system ideas. But the law of the third stuff has been repeated so many times over the last hundred years that it's painful to watch the newbies track down that dead end road again and again. Escape the confines of the gambler's fallacy.
If you really want to know how to get the edge and win, research what the casino risk consultants are saying to the casinos. What's on their radar screens as being a real threat.
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 01:14 AM 2016
Azim,
I'm sorry that you find logic is always in the way. It's not my intention to crush your system ideas. But the law of the third stuff has been repeated so many times over the last hundred years that it's painful to watch the newbies track down that dead end road again and again. Escape the confines of the gambler's fallacy.
If you really want to know how to get the edge and win, research what the casino risk consultants are saying to the casinos. What's on their radar screens as being a real threat.
SEE THAT'S MY POINT... YOU JUST ASSUMED I AM TALKING ABOUT THE LAW OF THIRD or SYSTEMS that have been tried out before.
Have you seen me post a system on here?
Once again do you know how to get from 1 to 2?
Quote from: Azim on Mar 30, 07:14 PM 2016
True, to what Turner has said about TOPIC with MATH GUYS AS TITLE.. However, There should be a clearance between which math boys.
See everyone looks at Math boys as being Roulette math boys.
I for one, will 100% agree to what they are saying to a novice.
However, the other math guys are your statistician who love to play with numbers. They eat, breath and sleep and do rest with numbers.
They would 100% agree with the Roulette math guys but Roulette math guys would never agree with them.
General,
Go understand what I have said here and come back again.
QuoteIf it works it has to work everywhere not just some wheels.
Azim thats like saying you must win every spin, or it doesnt work at all. Or its like saying an investment must be profitable every time, or theres no point.
There is no system that works everywhere, but there are numerous that win enough of the time to make play viable. You can waste days on a bad wheel and lose $2000. Then you can find and exploit another wheel and take $10,000 in one day. Seems worthwhile, and better han any 9-5 job to me.
Oh my god. General enough.
You can only make the same point so many times within a few days
Azim just ignore it now he wants to get a rise out of you.
Scroll past his comment and pretend its not there it makes you feel good
Quote from: Steve on Mar 31, 05:53 AM 2016
Azim thats like saying you must win every spin, or it doesnt work at all. Or its like saying an investment must be profitable every time, or theres no point.
There is no system that works everywhere, but there are numerous that win enough of the time to make play viable. You can waste days on a bad wheel and lose $2000. Then you can find and exploit another wheel and take $10,000 in one day. Seems worthwhile, and better han any 9-5 job to me.
Sorry Steve, that's what you assumed I was saying as well. Words can be misinterpreted in many ways. It all depends on the thinking of the person reading it.
That's why I asked, how do you teach someone to think?
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 05:23 PM 2016
Maybe we will learn something from that test
Thanks ati
As promised, I've check the same thing on 100k live spins.
These are the stats for the 123 dozen pattern.
123 - 3397 times
123 1 - 1041 times
123 12 - 339 times
123 123 - 126 times
123 123 1 - 43 times
123 123 12 - 16 times
123 123 123 - 8 times
123 123 123 1 - 2 times
123 123 123 12 - 2 times
123 123 123 123 - 0 times
When would you start betting? After 1231? Then you would have only 1041 triggers in 100k spins. That's not really profitable, is it. Not to mention that you would need to do a 8 level Marty twice. With $1 base unit, it would require a bankroll of $6560 to make $1041 profit on this particular set of 100k spins.
I know it's pretty basic stuff, but I've spent way too much time trying to create systems based on "rare" events and failed every time.
or you could play 123 123 123 12 parlay and win 177146USD 2 times... :-)
Quote from: ati on Apr 01, 02:33 PM 2016
As promised, I've check the same thing on 100k live spins.
These are the stats for the 123 dozen pattern.
123 - 3397 times
123 1 - 1041 times
123 12 - 339 times
123 123 - 126 times
123 123 1 - 43 times
123 123 12 - 16 times
123 123 123 - 8 times
123 123 123 1 - 2 times
123 123 123 12 - 2 times
123 123 123 123 - 0 times
When would you start betting? After 1231? Then you would have only 1041 triggers in 100k spins. That's not really profitable, is it. Not to mention that you would need to do a 8 level Marty twice. With $1 base unit, it would require a bankroll of $6560 to make $1041 profit on this particular set of 100k spins.
I know it's pretty basic stuff, but I've spent way too much time trying to create systems based on "rare" events and failed every time.
Tha ms ATI. Very imformative
Btw I was using the first 100k out of a million spins that Bayes shared in this thread. (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=7339.msg67169#msg67169)
Quote from: ati on Apr 01, 02:33 PM 2016
As promised, I've check the same thing on 100k live spins.
These are the stats for the 123 dozen pattern.
123 - 3397 times
What does this mean? to have a trigger for the 123 to happen mean you win 3397 times, that outweighs the losses of the other rare extreme events, flatbet ofcourse
Quote from: ignatus on Apr 01, 02:59 PM 2016
What does this mean? to have a trigger for the 123 to happen mean you win 3397 times, (or a little less, depending what trigger bet you have) that outweighs the losses of the other rare extreme events, flatbet ofcourse
ati your like a breath of fresh.........ive been waiting for someone.....to burst the bubble.....without it hurting so much
Quote from: ati on Apr 01, 02:33 PM 2016
As promised, I've check the same thing on 100k live spins.
These are the stats for the 123 dozen pattern.
123 - 3397 times
123 1 - 1041 times
123 12 - 339 times
123 123 - 126 times
123 123 1 - 43 times
123 123 12 - 16 times
123 123 123 - 8 times
123 123 123 1 - 2 times
123 123 123 12 - 2 times
123 123 123 123 - 0 times
When would you start betting? After 1231? Then you would have only 1041 triggers in 100k spins. That's not really profitable, is it. Not to mention that you would need to do a 8 level Marty twice. With $1 base unit, it would require a bankroll of $6560 to make $1041 profit on this particular set of 100k spins.
I know it's pretty basic stuff, but I've spent way too much time trying to create systems based on "rare" events and failed every time.
Now what can we do to make it profitable
Jahvinci seemed to make it work....30k up