Progressions

[GLC]

I have been thinking intently on progressions.  I have come to the conclusion, for now anyway, that  a very safe progression is the "Bread Winner's Progression".  This is a very simple, slow progression that seems to work if you have the patience and bank to hang in there during the really bad sequences.

Many of you know it, but for those who don't, here it is.  Bet 1 unit until you either reach your win target or the game wins 5 more times than you do.  You will be at -5 units.  Now go to betting 2 units until you recover your 5 lost units, then go back to betting 1 unit.

If the game  reaches another 5 wins at 2 units, go to betting 3 units per spin until you recover what you lost at 2 units at which time you drop down to betting 2 units until you rocover everything you lost at 1 unit and start over.

There are a variety of ways to keep track of where you are in the progression.

I think it's important to remember that you always cross off the highest number you have lost.

If that number is a 4 and you are betting 5 units.  When you win 5 units, you cross off 2 4's and add a  3  to be cancelled.  In other words, you don't cross off a 4 and a 1 as this will make the system less effective.  It's not the end of the world, just a little less pure.

This can be adapted to any bet on the board.

It can be made safer or less safe by varying the number of losses before going up on the bet size.

Losing 5 before going up 1 unit in bet size is a real grind (not much more than a flat bet) but with patience, you can win 5 or 10 units per day.  With large enough units, that can be a nice second income.

Of course you need a pretty hefty bank to make sure you don't go broke before the tide turns to your favor, but sooner or later it will.

You can read about this system in the Monte Carlo Anecdotes.  The author suggests that 2000 units bank should be enough to ride through the worst streak, almost.  (There's always a possiblilty of the streak from hell).

Has anyone tried this and found it to be ineffective?

Any and all thoughts will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

George

[Twisteruk]

Thanks for sharing that with us George !

Ive not heard of that one before 

[esoito]

Crumbs...that's a good one.

Thank you.

[malcop]

Hi GLC,

Thanks bringing this progression to my attention.

I did a google search and found the ebook, it was published in 1910!

The Bread-Winner System can be found on page 160.

hxxp: openlibrary. org/books/OL7062227M/Monte_Carlo_anecdotes_and_systems_of_play

Once again Thanks

malcop

[Twisteruk]

Here is the link to that page


link:://:.archive.org/stream/montecarloanecdo00bethiala#page/160/mode/2up

[GLC]

What do you guys think after reading up on it.

Looks like it can be adapted to all the bets.

I'm trying to imagine what kind of losing streak you would have to have for it not to work eventually.

It is certainly a grinder's paradise.

But if it can grind out a few units each day, may be worth the time.

Flatino's en prison tables would be the best place to play.

Or maybe Betvoyager's none zero game.

Other progressions may be faster, but I can't see how they could be safer.

We could tweak it to suit our personal level of risk.

I was considering this progression:  1-2-4-5-5-5-6-6-6-6-7-7-7-7-7-8-8-8-8-8-9-9-9-9-9-10-10-10-10-10-, etc...
for quicker unit wins up front and slow down going into the hole on a real down-turn.

That's a 216 unit loss if you lose on the 5th 10 unit bet.  But we have to have a stop loss somewhere.

Of course, if we get serious we could go so far as the author of the system and have a 2000 unit stop loss.

Could it ever go that far?

Probably.  A better scenario would be to have 5 separate 400 unit banks.

Just thinking out loud.

G

[malcop]

Here is the link to that page


hxxp: :. archive. org/stream/montecarloanecdo00bethiala#page/160/mode/2up

Thanks Twisteruk  :)

[malcop]

What do you guys think after reading up on it.

Looks like it can be adapted to all the bets.

I'm trying to imagine what kind of losing streak you would have to have for it not to work eventually.

It is certainly a grinder's paradise.

But if it can grind out a few units each day, may be worth the time.

F_LAT_INO's en prison tables would be the best place to play.

Or maybe Betvoyager's none zero game.

Other progressions may be faster, but I can't see how they could be safer.

We could tweak it to suit our personal level of risk.

I was considering this progression:  1-2-4-5-5-5-6-6-6-6-7-7-7-7-7-8-8-8-8-8-9-9-9-9-9-10-10-10-10-10-, etc. . .
for quicker unit wins up front and slow down going into the hole on a real down-turn.

That's a 216 unit loss if you lose on the 5th 10 unit bet.   But we have to have a stop-loss somewhere. 

Of course, if we get serious we could go so far as the author of the system and have a 2000 unit stop-loss.

Could it ever go that far?

Probably.   A better scenario would be to have 5 separate 400 unit banks.

Just thinking out loud.

G

Hi GLC,

I will know more about stop-losses ect.  after I try it out with a Bet Selection method I'm working on.

Thanks

Malcop

[malcop]

Hi All,

I played a Roulette session using the "Bread Winner" progression.

I had a high of +17 and ended the session at -27 at spin 197.

For me if I was to use this progression I would use a hit and run style of play.

I would set a target of +10 per session and use a buy-in of 30 units.

Make my +10 or lose no more than 30 units either way exit the table.

Thanks

malcop

[GLC]

Hi All,

I played a Roulette session using the "Bread Winner" progression.

I had a high of +17 and ended the session at -27 at spin 197.

For me if I was to use this progression I would use a hit and run style of play.

I would set a target of +10 per session and use a buy-in of 30 units.

Make my +10 or lose no more than 30 units either way exit the table.

Thanks

malcop

Malcop,

Thanks for the test and post.

It didn't end so well, but I did some analysis of your session.

You had exactly 99 wins and 100 loses.

Flatbetting you would have lost 1 unit.

What made it a losing session is that you lost 31 and won 19 of the last 50 bets.

You were even moneywise at spin 194 and then lost the next 5 bets to put you at -27 and then ended the session.

I think that anytime we are betting  more than 2 or 3 units and reach zero down, it's probably a good time to just start over at 1 unit.

I think you are right, a win target of 5 or 10 units is probably realistic.

You could take a break and then come back for another session.

Maybe play virtual until you get behind on wins by 5, 10 or even 15 bets and then start playing at 1 unit expecting a come-back.

It should recover most of the time and put you in the profit.

Really, I've tested much worse loss to win sessions and still came back to win 5 units.

Once again, thanks for your input.  I'm far from discouraged with your results.

GLC

[malcop]

Malcop,

Thanks for the test and post.

It didn't end so well, but I did some analysis of your session.

You had exactly 99 wins and 100 loses.

Flatbetting you would have lost 1 unit.

What made it a losing session is that you lost 31 and won 19 of the last 50 bets.

You were even moneywise at spin 194 and then lost the next 5 bets to put you at -27 and then ended the session.

I think that anytime we are betting  more than 2 or 3 units and reach zero down, it's probably a good time to just start over at 1 unit.

I think you are right, a win target of 5 or 10 units is probably realistic.

You could take a break and then come back for another session.

Maybe play virtual until you get behind on wins by 5, 10 or even 15 bets and then start playing at 1 unit expecting a come-back.

It should recover most of the time and put you in the profit.

Really, I've tested much worse loss to win sessions and still came back to win 5 units.

Once again, thanks for your input.  I'm far from discouraged with your results.

GLC

Hi GLC,

The Bet Selection method I use normaly does well just flat betting, like any BS you have your streaks of losses and wins.

I have posted the Bet Selection method I have been using for a while over on EC thread.

link:://rouletteforum.cc/bet-selection/how-you-play-ec%27s/msg14159/#new  - Reply 20

These are the BS & MM rules I have been using with the "Breadwinner Progression" the my Bet Selections.

So far today my sessions have ended: +5, +5, +7, +15, +15

Just waiting for my losing session  

I have attached a PDF with my MM rules for a 30 unit buy-in and a MM Tool I use when I play online wether live or RNG.

The tool is vere easy to use just enter your current Casino balance and your base bet.  And it will work the rest out for you.   If you read the PDF document first it will all become cleare to you.

Thanks

malcop

[GLC]

I have been testing this progression and it can really be a grind.  Once you get very far in the hole, it's a chore to get out.

Of course we knew that.

It's just easier to 'say' and accept it than to 'play' and accept it.

GLC

[malcop]

Hi

Yes I agree this progression can be a bit of a grind.

As a change I thought I would play a bit of Blackjack, and I used the Bread Winner progression

I still used the 30 unit buy-in and the MM rules I posted, and I was surprised to see how well it worked.

I have only played 3 sessions so far and I'm up +42 units.

One thing you must play good basic strategy, and to protect your bankroll only ever split or double down once.

Also if you lose to a double down or a split then treat that as two bets, and record that loss as if you had two single losses, the reverse is true threat double down or split wins as two separate wins.

For so far using the Bread-Winner progression and My MM rules, I'm up 42 units.

I know this forum is for Roulette but just thought I would share my findings.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: Five sessions played up +64 units

Thanks

Malcop

[GLC]

I have posted the Bet Selection method I have been using for a while over on EC thread.

Thanks

malcop

Malcop,

I really like your bet selection method.  I have been testing it and have had excellent results with it.'

So much that I have created a variation on F_LAT_INO's Random VS Random system.

I use 3 lines of bets just like he does.

1st line is the penultimate.

2nd line is 'same as the last'.

3rd line is your bet selection method instead of 'opposite the last'.

I have a couple of other tweaks.  If I lose 3 times in a row betting the penultimate, I switch to betting "opposite the penultimate" until I lose 3 times in a row then I switch back to betting the penultimate.  I continue switching everytime I lose 3 in a row.

Also, if I lose 3 times in a row betting the last, I switch to betting "opposite the last" until I lose 3 times in a row when I switch back, etc...

I always bet your bet selection line exactly as you presented it because it adjusts automatically for streaks or chops:

RRR next bet R
RRB next bet B
RBB next bet R
RBR next bet B
BBB next bet B
BRR next bet B
BBR next bet R
BRB next bet R

I bet 1 unit on all three lines until I lose 5 more times than I win at which time I go to 2 units until I lose 5 times more than I win, etc...  Just like breadwinner's system.

When I say lose 5 more times than win, that means lose at least 2 of the 3 lines so that we have a negative result on that bet for 5 more times than we win 2 of the 3 lines which gives us a positive result.  If we lose all three lines, that counts as 3 losses.  And, if we win all 3 lines that counts as 3 wins.

(To be honest, I have been doing so well that I have tested a couple of sessions flatbetting 1 unit on all 3 lines and have been doing surprisingly well.)

I use the tweaks so I don't get caught losing units on a deadly streak of doublets on the penultimate or a series of chops on "the last".

So far it has been working so well that I rarely have to go beyond the 3rd level in the progression.  I know that will change soon enough, but maybe not too soon.

It's complicated, but with just a little practice you can make the calculations and bets easily.  Of course always bet differentially unless you're playing on a nonzero table.

Please look at it and let me know what you think.

Thanks,

George

PS:  I like the idea of using the breadwinner on BJ.  Never thought of that, but winning is the name of the game whether with roulette or BJ or even baccarat and craps.
This triple line system can be used on any of them except BJ.

[malcop]

Malcop,

I really like your bet selection method.  I have been testing it and have had excellent results with it.'

So much that I have created a variation on F_LAT_INO's Random VS Random system.

I use 3 lines of bets just like he does.

1st line is the penultimate.

2nd line is 'same as the last'.

3rd line is your bet selection method instead of 'opposite the last'.

I have a couple of other tweaks.  If I lose 3 times in a row betting the penultimate, I switch to betting "opposite the penultimate" until I lose 3 times in a row then I switch back to betting the penultimate.  I continue switching everytime I lose 3 in a row.

Also, if I lose 3 times in a row betting the last, I switch to betting "opposite the last" until I lose 3 times in a row when I switch back, etc...

I always bet your bet selection line exactly as you presented it because it adjusts automatically for streaks or chops:

RRR next bet R
RRB next bet B
RBB next bet R
RBR next bet B
BBB next bet B
BRR next bet B
BBR next bet R
BRB next bet R

I bet 1 unit on all three lines until I lose 5 more times than I win at which time I go to 2 units until I lose 5 times more than I win, etc...  Just like breadwinner's system.

When I say lose 5 more times, that means lose at least 2 of the 3 bets so that we have a negative result on that bet for 5 more times than we win 2 of the 3 bets which gives us a positive result.

I use the tweaks so I don't get caught losing units on a deadly streak of doublets on the penultimate or a series of chops on "the last".

So far it has been working so well that I rarely have to go beyond the 2nd level in the progression.  I know that will change soon enough, but maybe not too often.

It's complicated, but with just a little practice you can make the calculations and bets easily.  Of course always bet differentially unless you're playing on a nonzero table.

Please look at it and let me know what you think.

Thanks,

George

PS:  I like the idea of using the breadwinner on BJ.  Never thought of that, but winning is the name of the game whether with roulette or BJ or even baccarat and craps.
This triple line system can be used on any of them except BJ.

Hi GLC,

That's funny you thinking about betting in three's look at the attached document, I thought about a similar idea a couple of weeks ago, first with TB4L+OTB4L and then with the four triggers I posted.

I like the triggers based on the last three hands/spins and if it was won by TB4L or OTB4L then betting for the same to happen next hand, I'm sure someone else must have thought of them before.

Have a look and let me know what you think.

Thanks

malcop