hi folks,
I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make the game of "penney ante" work on roulette?
as there is lots of material and information about this game on the internet I'll attache just one document. using google you will find much more.
cheers :)
hans
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Dec 16, 11:22 AM 2018
hi folks,
I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make the game of "penney ante" work on roulette?
as there is lots of material and information about this game on the internet I'll attache just one document. using google you will find much more.
cheers :)
hans
Conclusion won’t work
The zero on this kills it
I did some testing on r/b chasing the "ABBAB pattern.
I waited for ABBA as a trigger and then bet for another B - all flatbetting.
Interesting
How the results look like 100k spins.
But these examples look pretty good, the more likely they are taken with their wheels with zero.
But the advantage is so small that you would have to play it on fast RNG and the best of the la partage rule, but I do not even know if there are currently available RNG wheels with this rule.
Here try this first 3 spins ex ?LHL flip the middle LLH and do this for every 3 spins stop on on a win.you'll get way more betting opportunities and do this for 100,000 spins
one could play all 3 even chances at the same time - that would also give more betting opportunities.
I also wonder how the results would behave with a much larger number of spin. maybe someone could run an excel test?
W:l:wwl:::wwl::::wwlwl::::lw
162 spin
Winner
These are the results of this concept from the post above?
You can explain exactly how to play, because I did not understand it
Quote from: ozon on Dec 16, 04:47 PM 2018
Winner
These are the results of this concept from the post above?
You can explain exactly how to play, because I did not understand it
Np
Your first 3 result of the wheel I’ll use high / low
LHL you flip the The middle result in this case the High to a low put it in front of the already Low High . Giveing you a
LLH now bet this in the next three spins to repeat stop on the the first win so if the next 3 results is LLL you won on the first spin stop.your next bet would be
HLL and so on.again flipping the middle result from L to H
Good for lunch money maybe if your lucky dinner.
Here. 36 more spins
W:::w
36 more
WwwLwlwl:
I’m eating dinner tonight 🐓
Here 72 more spin . As you can see you can win but you can’t beat the little wheel .
W::::wwl:lww.
There you go the penny ante game
Quote from: Winner on Dec 16, 05:58 PM 2018
Np
Your first 3 result of the wheel I’ll use high / low
LHL you flip the The middle result in this case the High to a low put it in front of the already Low High . Giveing you a
/quote]
I guess this is the selection player 2 would best use in the original penney ante if you knew the selection of player 1?
That’s right
Some one could test if they wanted too and find out where in the bet it wins ex .does it win on the 1st.2nd 3rd.spin .
Ex. 2 L 231121211 the L is 3 losses in a row . A good way to track the wins an idea but then again good for lunch or maybe dinners.
Here’s 360 spins
121133L12L
13111221111
21122121L21
211L3112221
12L3L112L33
321L1112L11
L121111221
2132L122123
11232111111
2L1332LL11L
So now you can see when it hits in the bettin field.
Zeros are a pain in arse but I handle them well.
If this happens LHH H0L I will use the 2 results before the zero to get my next bets .
21122132L32
2L231121211
222112112111
111L2112213
23232L22112
Not to many 3 in a row Losses on this one good for some cheeseburgers .
What happen to all the high speed testers .
I’m looking to see what penny ante does on a large scale so I can book my gourmet buffet in Vegas .
I think I’ll just settle for lunch money on this one .im done with the penny ante the price is not right
thanks for your input, mr. winner. :thumbsup:
I test manually ... so no highspeed from me . :)
here is another one - betvoyager no zero 10.000 spins (ABBAB pattern)
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Dec 17, 12:48 PM 2018
thanks for your input, mr. winner. :thumbsup:
I test manually ... so no highspeed from me . :)
here is another one - betvoyager no zero 10.000 spins (ABBAB pattern)
What is the longest losing run on this and are you playing continuously with this pattern?
as far as I remember 8 losses in a row was the maximum so far.
I bet for the ABBAB pattern either on red or on black where ever the opportunity is given. so I bet only after RBBR has shown for another B or after BRRB for another R. so it is basically a dbl bet after a certain trigger.
the terrible 2s RR BB RR BB produce most losses in a row. but on the other hand betting this way I lose only 1 unit instead of the usual two units I would lose if I bet dbl continously.
2122-3131113
2121-311111-3
12211212231
1-32-321111-31
-3-3111211221
32211111213
123223-3-3311
12212111211
113-31111121
13211112111
1121-31-31-311
I made this work you bet the first bet .then you bet against the 2 because they don’t repeat as often stop on the first win .if you lose the first bet bet against the second .out of 59 games haven’t lost once
Quote from: Winner on Dec 29, 07:34 PM 2018
2122-3131113
2121-311111-3
12211212231
1-32-321111-31
-3-3111211221
32211111213
123223-3-3311
12212111211
113-31111121
13211112111
1121-31-31-311
I made this work you bet the first bet .then you bet against the 2 because they don’t repeat as often stop on the first win .if you lose the first bet bet against the second .out of 59 games haven’t lost once
Ok i understand your strategy and it works! But... of course it is possible that 10 or more low/high in a row are comin. So example 4 times hhh.
So hhh turn to lhh. But when u bet against the second u always bet LL. So u will lose.
Hi Winner, thank you for sharing this concept with us.
if I understand correctly, if we spin 27,28,6 then we bet for HLH for the next 3 spins or until a win if less than 3 spins. Is this correct?
If so, then our first spin was 19 and we win. What next?
Also if lose 3 spins, we just retrack?
Cheers.
Quote from: ewarwoowar on Jan 01, 03:44 PM 2019
Hi Winner, thank you for sharing this concept with us.
if I understand correctly, if we spin 27,28,6 then we bet for HLH for the next 3 spins or until a win if less than 3 spins. Is this correct?
If so, then our first spin was 19 and we win. What next?
Also if lose 3 spins, we just retrack?
Cheers.
[/quote
No in your ex. You have HHL so the penny ante style you woul flip the the H to an L giving you LHH for the next 3 stop on win.but I found that it’s still loses but short term you can win a few units.
Hi Winner,
So are you saying it is not as good as you once thought???
Quote from: sturrock on Jan 02, 04:02 AM 2019
Hi Winner,
So are you saying it is not as good as you once thought???
It’s good for lunch money.
Quote from: Winner on Jan 02, 06:26 AM 2019
It’s good for lunch money.
Hey, you got p.m
I tested Penny's game/non-transitive betting - translating it to cycles:
EC Triplet Average Waiting Time (spins)
111 14
222 14
121 10
212 10
112 8
122 8
211 8
221 8
EC Cycle Average Waiting Time (cycles)
121 10
212 10
11 6
22 6
122 6
211 6
Unfortunately, it's not applicable in terms of edge in Roulette, a game which can be described through many mathematical truths/models in as far as number combinations go - but there's no sign of any exploit/edge/profit - maths doesn't help nor claim to help us there. Ramsey theory doesn't know we are playing Roulette with unfair payout odds and trying to overcome it.
OK forum members I am now trying to get my head around "penny-ante", maybe with your help, I can.
Most explanations on the internet use a heads/tails scenario.
So lets use a no-zero roulette wheel, high and low. Just to simplify things for this argument.
Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
We, then, always select LHH.
We are both waiting for our pattern of 3 to occur, so we play an up-as-you win progression on each set of 3 spins.
Would we have an advantage over our opponent? Would we both lose money, but our opponent at a faster rate??
Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
Specify why is that? the classic game of pennies will not help you win roulette.
Quote from: daveylibra on Jan 03, 02:25 PM 2019
Just to simplify things for this argument.
Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
We, then, always select LHH.
We are both waiting for our pattern of 3 to occur, so we play an up-as-you win progression on each set of 3 spins.
Would we have an advantage over our opponent? Would we both lose money, but our opponent at a faster rate??
here is a table
link:://:.qbyte.org/puzzles/p013s.html
maybe this "Example: HHT beats HTT beats TTH beats THH beats HHT." answers your question?
Quote from: evs on Jan 03, 02:41 PM 2019
Now, suppose we have an opponent that will always select HHL.
Specify why is that? the classic game of pennies will not help you win roulette.
It was just an example. I'm just trying to work out whether the player selecting HHL has a 50/50 chance of winning, long-term, ie breaking-even. (given a non-zero wheel.)
If not, why not? And if so, why would we not be able to have an advantage over this player?
these are the results of my testing in more detail:
1. dublin bet
total spins: 3981 spins played: 407 w: 206 l: 201 net: +5 1,23%
random org
total spins: 4000 spins played: 396 w: 189 l: 180 net: +9 2,44%
smarlive autowheel
total spins: 7054 spins played 766 w: 391 l: 375 net: +16 2,09%
bv nozero
total spins: 6190 spins played 782 w: 393 l: 389 net: +4 0,51%
dublinbet, random org. and smartlive were playes on a single zero wheel with a complete loss on zero.
Extended version ?
link:://demonstrations.wolfram.com/CoinFlips/ (link:://demonstrations.wolfram.com/CoinFlips/) O0
this is a quote from the article:
Introduction.
The most famous version of the paradoxical game penny when players
come up with a series (search patterns) of three elementary binary events
(L = 3 ELA), when L = 3, the second player wins (if desired) always. Laws
the paradoxical penny games act on both longer series (L > 3) and on
short series (templates) with a length of two events (L = 2 ELA). Difference game with
a bet of length two, from the well-known game with a bet of length three, is to
that the first player has an additional chance to win if the second player
does not know the secret of combinations of winning and losing combinations in two-bit
penny's game.
The analysis of the games penny on the rates by the length of two binary event less time consuming, so
as analyzed combinatorial options are few. In this article, the mechanisms of the game
Pennies are considered on patterns with a length of two elementary events (L = 2 El).
Table 1 presents the experimental results of competition
pairs of two-digit search patterns according to penny's rules of the game. All possible
combinations for player 1 (I1 first calls his combination) are presented in
the top, horizontal, row of table 1.
Penny's game with two bit patterns (L=2) is different from the game with
three-bit patterns so that the advantage is the player who first
calls its combination ("and 1"). The first player ("I1") can name a combination,
which, when competing with a combination of the second player ("and 2"), gives him
additional chances to win.
Quote from: evs on Jan 05, 07:05 AM 2019
this is a quote from the article:
Introduction.
The most famous version of the paradoxical game penny when players
come up with a series (search patterns) of three elementary binary events
(L = 3 ELA), when L = 3, the second player wins (if desired) always. Laws
the paradoxical penny games act on both longer series (L > 3) and on
short series (templates) with a length of two events (L = 2 ELA). Difference game with
a bet of length two, from the well-known game with a bet of length three, is to
that the first player has an additional chance to win if the second player
does not know the secret of combinations of winning and losing combinations in two-bit
penny's game.
The analysis of the games penny on the rates by the length of two binary event less time consuming, so
as analyzed combinatorial options are few. In this article, the mechanisms of the game
Pennies are considered on patterns with a length of two elementary events (L = 2 El).
Table 1 presents the experimental results of competition
pairs of two-digit search patterns according to penny's rules of the game. All possible
combinations for player 1 (I1 first calls his combination) are presented in
the top, horizontal, row of table 1.
Penny's game with two bit patterns (L=2) is different from the game with
three-bit patterns so that the advantage is the player who first
calls its combination ("and 1"). The first player ("I1") can name a combination,
which, when competing with a combination of the second player ("and 2"), gives him
additional chances to win.
What on earth are you trying to convey?
Hans, I understand what you are doing with the ABBA then bet B, but how does this connect to penny-ante?
hi dave,
p.a. can be played with 3, 4 or even 5 decisions. so "ABBA B" is just an extended version.