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Okay guys well i just wanna know who is winning with a "matrix" method?

"You gonna ask well what classifies as a matrix method?" It is all those methods that are played waiting for a pattern not to happen/happen. You have Matrix vertical 5, matric vertical 6, matrix vertical 8, code 4, divide and conquer and the list goes on.....

Ive played all these methods and they all end in the same result a LOSS.. Ive played it 4 games a "session", 1 game a session, 29 games a session, continuosly and they have all ended in a.... yes you guessed it... a LOSS.

Ive played them live, B&M casinos, rng, random.org and i never seem to come out in front. So why is only one person winning? or is all the other people winning not saying that they are in fact winning?

So thats the poll say if you winning or losing but i expect it to be the latter.

Quote from: pratikpop on Oct 12, 05:31 PM 2011
matrix systems don't work...its like a garbage..instead play methods based on some assumptions..

Thats the point of this thread. But thanks for your reply

These matrix methods are all senseless way of playing. There is nothing like patterns. A sure loser way.

Quotematrix systems don't work...its like a garbage

Well described, a good clear concise description, be interesting to see if anyone actually IS winning with any of them, besides the creator of course, interesting thread.

@ juiced, sorry for your losses mate, but I did try in the early days to warn people away from them!

Quote from: superman on Oct 13, 03:56 AM 2011

Well described, a good clear concise description, be interesting to see if anyone actually IS winning with any of them, besides the creator of course, interesting thread.

@ juiced, sorry for your losses mate, but I did try in the early days to warn people away from them!

hello

Diagonal,vertical,horizontal,mixed;  4,5,or 6 wide do not work. I mean they work for 1% players.Im in the opposite group. :question:


Regards

There is only one way to win hit the dealer over the head ,run for the exit,make sure to kick the security in the nuts and hopefully you will make out alive thats in vegas by the way :sad2:  oh sorry i thought i was in the MATRIX MOVIE.

Quote from: warrior on Oct 13, 08:58 AM 2011
There is only one way to win hit the dealer over the head ,run for the exit,make sure to kick the security in the nuts and hopefully you will make out alive that's in vegas by the way :sad2:  oh sorry i thought i was in the MATRIX MOVIE.

Which part Warrior? ;D

Regards

Quotethey work for 1% players

Nah, must be less than that, theres more than 100 of us who tried them!

Hello

Jokes aside. Which is dangerous in this methods is that by separating the bets,waiting for number of spins to start betting etc... they give especially newbies a false sense of more security.  The reality however is that you have exactly the same chance of winning for example in Vertical 8 as using 5 step progression and betting against 1 dozen consecutively.
Ok waiting 3 steps for the trigger gives you an edge but if u compare both methods you have basically the same chance .
So why bother?  And "magical"  numbers like 8 in the case of Vertical 8.  How about 10 or 12?  That is the thinking that is behind the failure of most roulette players although some players that claim to have lots of experience for some reason ignore this obvious fact.
I think that we need to close the book on all the matrix systems based on above principles. They are just to dangerous to play.
Lets work together on other systems.

Regards

An interesting question has been raised here and it deserves a sensible reply.


In my experience the matrix methods, despite their ingenious diversity, have a common characteristic in that they re-organise data so that the player can further analyse. They are like shredders that re-distribute outcomes into new sets so we can see from a different angle.


I dont believe that on their own they offer any unique edge, but nevertheless they are valuable tools and should not be dismissed.


We have seen some recent intelligent definition and comment on the fallacies of 'hit and run' play, and no one has better outlined that than Bayes.


What is not seen though is that within some hit and run approaches there is a mixture of some powerful and worthwhile principles which do make a difference to results but which have not been clearly stated in either superficial criticism or acknowledged by the players who claim success.


The matrix methods can thus benefit from the following :


* re-organisation of data into fresh sets for analysis to see outcomes in a new light for analysis
* observation of swings in deviations from the norm through such new organisation of data
* timing of entry and exit points tuned by heuristics
* engineering of new bets designed for better advantage to the player
* unique characteristics for every new bet enables fresh study of bet parameters
* observation thus of cycles of most likely and reasonable win bet outcomes
* simplicity, speed and reliability of the matrix bet turnover can be used to advantage
* money management can be applied to the simple bet outcomes
* flat staking can be applied in short cycles
* reverse bet outcomes can also be applied to advanatage


In my own case I have chosen to work initially with Pattern Breaker/ Filler and go from there to the D+C bet because I found the quick turnover and simplicity of that matrix quite ingenious.


That I make no comment on some of the other matrix bets in no way reflects on their unique qualities and characteristics because I just have not had the time or need to use/ test them. What I have developed works well.


There is short term edge available if you take the time and care to analyse and use what has been offered with intelligence.


To play continuously or test for a million spins is nonsense.


However with practice, patience and intelligent application, success can be achieved as long as your goals are realistic.


By this I mean gains of say  +5, or even +9 units in short cycles. Taking profit when offered then re-setting at the correct time where possible. This is not clockwork and at times will fail but the goal is simply to win more often than you lose and to accentuate the positives and mitigate the losses.


In the case of the D+C I have also enjoyed particular success by reversing the bet at key times.


However that took considerable research and application.


If you care to read the threads though it is all there.


In summary the matrix bets alone will not necessarily provide profit but with applied intelligence they are wonderful and intelligent tools.

Quote from: XXVV on Oct 13, 03:06 PM 2011


However that took considerable research and application.

Fantastic use of the English Language in your reply there XXVV.................
though as I have Highlighted in your Quote above, the afore mentioned "R & A", for most players, means Cash loss after Cash loss after Cash loss, using a Mirriad of Matrix methods, whether applied Strictly to the Biblical Text, or Reversed/Inverted/Swung or dare I say......Botted!!


I am amazed, that for All the Posts, and All the rhetoric associated with the Matrix Construct, that more players, and testers, are not somehow having the same "Consistent" results as displayed by JL on a regular Updated basis.


It just can not be right.


What we need, is a thorough presentation, of ACTUAL bets placed, numbers used, and results gleaned, here in Forum, for people to Gorp at, and wonder in!


Farside of the Matrix Man.

Quote from: Jimmyfarside on Oct 13, 03:32 PM 2011

I am amazed, that for All the Posts, and All the rhetoric associated with the Matrix Construct, that more players, and testers, are not somehow having the same "Consistent" results as displayed by JL on a regular Updated basis.

It just can not be right.

What we need, is a thorough presentation, of ACTUAL bets placed, numbers used, and results gleaned, here in Forum, for people to Gorp at, and wonder in!

Hi Jimmyfarside,

What do you mean: "It just can not be right"?

JL puts a big emphasis on using hit & run with his methods, and I was planning to do a simulation of code4 and a simple system suggested by Woods to show one way or the other whether hit & run actually works. I have to admit I've lost enthusiasm for that project, for the simple reason that it won't really "prove" anything. If the test shows no difference, believers won't lose the faith; they'll deny that a computer simulation is a valid way to test the hit & run hypothesis because it runs "continuously". Some people (like JL) dismiss bots for the same reason. Either that or they'll claim that the particular system tested may not have worked using hit & run, but some other system might, so the principle of hit & run won't be disproved, just a particular application of it.

Hit and Run = Luck
You enter real play and can hit a bad run or the good run, never know.
The LW s strategys are like some maps to use and choose what to bet, also
virtual bet is good to avoid some loses.


cheers

These matrix based systems dont work period.  Either played continuously or hit and run.
They operate on dangerous progression and are based on a wrong assumption that by separating or rearranging the bets you stand a better chance of winning.
Your chances of winning  for example in Vertical 8 are exactly the same like winning 5 step progression betting against 1 dozen consecutively.  There is nothing magical about number 8 either here because you can get  10 repeats. Its not so rare.
So just keep it simple guys here please. And we can discuss hit and run here for next 100 years  ;D




Regards

I voted "No I'm not"

Is that JL's "yes I am" vote.

If not will someone else own up? 

Robert

Thanks Trebor


You asked a question so I will answer.


It is my vote for matrix success because I have used PB/PF successfully in short cycles-please note this is not the same approach as 'hit and run' which I think we all agree is flawed when used simply as self defined.


I have had more success with D+C in selected short cycles which have been enhanced by accurate reading of the state of the Ecart cycle. May I suggest some readers explore this very real phenomenon.




Most success though has come from reversing what is a simple bet turning it on its head so that it is much more user friendly, ie frequent, simple, reliable and with a good win to cost ratio.


Again it is a matter of timing and realistic expectation once you know, understand and respect the characteristics of the bet you are using.


Some writers appear to miss the point here and seem to just wish to push their personal biases.
I have suggested that various matrix bets are tools that have potential to be used wisely.


It need not cost you a penny to test and research other than your use of time. And if you feel you are making some progress or expanding your knowledge, then that is a wonderful thing. It will make you happy! 'Virtual' bets can be made on live feed roulette or watching in a B+M casino. You only need to go 'real' when you are ready and that will take time that needs to be invested - as with all things worthwhile.


I have simply answered the thread title and honestly stated how I have won, with appropriate qualification. Several threads I have added to have specific bet examples if anyone is interested.


Happy Trails
XXVV

XXVV  I understood the question referred to winning with the original matrix methods as laid down by JL and others.

If you have taken the concept and added your own expertise to decide how to use it are we talking about the same thing?

Maybe this is what JL is doing in reality.

Robert

Quote from: trebor on Oct 15, 03:34 AM 2011
XXVV  I understood the question referred to winning with the original matrix methods as laid down by JL and others.

If you have taken the concept and added your own expertise to decide how to use it are we talking about the same thing?

Maybe this is what JL is doing in reality.

Robert

Yes played the way it is told to play.... Not changing and adding your own stuff so its a different method altogether. And XXVV as much as i respect you why cant you share your methods just straight? you say we must all go searching for the tweaks why not just give us the tweaks.  I feel its like that with everyone that knows "something".  All the apparent good methods we get told go read the whole thread thats like 85 pages long. Some times its just a bit crazy...

Oh dear. This is amusing in some ways and infuriating in others (lol).


I have stated very clearly that I used PB/PF and D+C as directed by the originators to win in short cycles with small appropriate amounts*. ( I also later added personal modification as an option for D+C. Such action is a demonstration of how much I value the original platform win bet in D+C which still has some optimum playing cycles in its original form as long as you read the game accurately.)


How much more clearly do you need this stated?  What more can you want?


That I also chose to time my entry and exit is a matter of personal judgment and I believe if you read some of JL's comments, he may agree with this view. In fact timing is everything.


It really is not that complex.


But it is world's apart from continuous play or testing for a million spins. All these matrix methods ( and many other methods) would lose in such application because such an idiotic and blind approach shows no understanding of the true nature of roulette which, amongst many intriguing characteristics, is a game of cycles within cycles with tides of swinging energies that fill and empty the cup.


No further comment will be added by me on this thread but thanks to those who asked the question, and it is surprising how few have actually responded at this stage.


* every bet will have its characteristic optimum cycles for action, and optimum range of earning, and for that matter risk exposure; and these need to be understood by the player, and the only way to find this out is by your own personal effort.


Many Happy Trails

But it is world's apart from continuous play or testing for a million spins. All these matrix methods ( and many other methods) would lose in such application because such an idiotic and blind approach shows no understanding of the true nature of roulette which, amongst many intriguing characteristics, is a game of cycles within cycles with tides of swinging energies that fill and empty the cup.

That's a good reply and sums things up neatly. Too many forumites jump from one promising thing to another without really getting under the hood. Many ideas can lead to 'consistent winning bets' if you fully understand them and more importantly don't get greedy.

Quote from: XXVV on Oct 15, 06:20 AM 2011
Oh dear. This is amusing in some ways and infuriating in others (LoL).


I have stated very clearly that I used PB/PF and D+C as directed by the originators to win in short cycles with small appropriate amounts*. ( I also later added personal modification as an option for D+C. Such action is a demonstration of how much I value the original platform win bet in D+C which still has some optimum playing cycles in its original form as long as you read the game accurately.)

Hello XXVV

With due respect to your analytical approach to the game still  your take on this subject  sounds like game of chance. Entering the circles at the right moment,following the trends etc.  -  all this feels like you leave to much to the chance or elusive  factor of seizing the right moment. 
I just need a simple analysis involving number of spins, size of bankroll, win to loss ratio.  In matrix systems the numbers provided feel just unattainable and it makes them very susceptible.
If something feels to good to be true it usually is not.....


Regards

Classic juice

If you aint got the patience to read 85 pages i'm not sure you got much chance of winning a gold fish at the fair let alone roulette .

Thanks for that strato. Well its common sense to me,and clearly not for you, that if I know something it would be easier for me to tell them than make them read a million pages when I could just outline it in one post. But seeing you so patient you must have hit the jackpot already. regards

One more thing then and thanks for the sensible healthy scepticism from RobinHood who really was one of my early heroes, and indeed I did, used to live as a wide eyed child next to the remnants of the mighty oaks of Sherwood Forest.


Please, in my writings over the past 12 months I have recorded a journey of discovery. You dont have to read hundreds of pages, just the last few if you want, because earlier ideas are set aside and improved. Yes I change my mind at times and sometimes will contradict myself but that is because things change. Knowledge grows. But this is a mighty subject and still little is really known.


In the threads on Experimental Ideas I do talk simply and directly about moving averages, game spin durations, and ways to measure Ecart shift/ cycles.


This is not some vague and subjective theory but is a fact and well known to many experienced European players.


I have several ways to measure whether to 'start'  and this is done by finding a suitable 'trigger'. This is done by finding a phase or cycle of play ( usually 10 -30 spins, sometimes longer) where the moving average of results indicates a consistent win streak or run. You dont climb on in the middle of an adverse situation ( thinking naively that it will soon come right or will correct because as we know in many instances this is the Gamblers Fallacy). Instead you climb on when there is a stable cycle of success. How long this may continue can be noted from prior experience to a certain extent but generally you let streaks run and take advantage. You climb off when there is the first sign of correction.


Finding when to 'stop' is thus easier.


This is not chance or fantasy or wishing or any other vagueness but is based on measurable fact.


It is not hard but the gains might be small in unit numbers, but can be high in unit value.


You just have to be realistic and respectful of roulette.


Any hint of pride or arrogance will be severely punished, sooner or later.


My method of play, now well honed as I am about to travel, is based on mainly flat staking , short cycle gains, and small but compounding gains, remarkably small percentage gains on the RB but gains that compound and daily will coalesce. Do the small things well and the bigger aims will fall into place.


Good Hunting
XXVV

I've enjoyed reading it XXVV

No juice it wasn't common sense the swings of escart and equilibrium to me ...!

He said early on in his post why he was writing down his thoughts

Good luck on your travels XXVV

Quote from: XXVV on Oct 15, 05:25 PM 2011
One more thing then and thanks for the sensible healthy scepticism from RobinHood who really was one of my early heroes, and indeed I did, used to live as a wide eyed child next to the remnants of the mighty oaks of Sherwood Forest.


Please, in my writings over the past 12 months I have recorded a journey of discovery. You don't have to read hundreds of pages, just the last few if you want, because earlier ideas are set aside and improved. Yes I change my mind at times and sometimes will contradict myself but that is because things change. Knowledge grows. But this is a mighty subject and still little is really known.


In the threads on Experimental Ideas I do talk simply and directly about moving averages, game spin durations, and ways to measure Ecart shift/ cycles.


This is not some vague and subjective theory but is a fact and well known to many experienced European players.


I have several ways to measure whether to 'start'  and this is done by finding a suitable 'trigger'. This is done by finding a phase or cycle of play ( usually 10 -30 spins, sometimes longer) where the moving average of results indicates a consistent win streak or run. You don't climb on in the middle of an adverse situation ( thinking naively that it will soon come right or will correct because as we know in many instances this is the Gamblers Fallacy). Instead you climb on when there is a stable cycle of success. How long this may continue can be noted from prior experience to a certain extent but generally you let streaks run and take advantage. You climb off when there is the first sign of correction.


Finding when to 'stop' is thus easier.


This is not chance or fantasy or wishing or any other vagueness but is based on measurable fact.


It is not hard but the gains might be small in unit numbers, but can be high in unit value.


You just have to be realistic and respectful of roulette.


Any hint of pride or arrogance will be severely punished, sooner or later.


My method of play, now well honed as I am about to travel, is based on mainly flat staking , short cycle gains, and small but compounding gains, remarkably small percentage gains on the RB but gains that compound and daily will coalesce. Do the small things well and the bigger aims will fall into place.


Good Hunting
XXVV

Hello XXVV

Nice one about a folks hero hehe. i guess we have to agree to disagree on this subject.
I would love somebody to go through some live wheel numbers and really find out if really these methods work.
This is the only way to solve this dispute. Numbers provided seem very doubtful to some forum members and i dont see any other way.
But it has to be done "hit and run" way so it is almost impossible or very time consuming.
Anyway good luck to anybody who stiill plays them and makes money. 

Regards

For the record.

Yes, I am

Quote from: Kimo Li on Oct 16, 08:21 AM 2011
For the record.

Yes, I am

Heh, why I am not surprised..  ;D

Thanks to all the people that commented/contributed to this thread..

19/21 people have lost with this method so to me its pretty conclusive but there might be more that havent voted.

Thanks again

Quote from: Kimo Li on Oct 16, 08:21 AM 2011
For the record.

Yes, I am

For the RECORD, and for the MASSES........................How?


Would U show/tell?

Quote from: Jimmyfarside on Oct 17, 01:18 PM 2011

For the RECORD, and for the MASSES........................How?


Would U show/tell?

I wasnt gonna ask before i get told im lazy and impatient.. But maybe Kimo li will tell us how he does it and if its followed EXACTLY the way it is explained

Quote from: Juiced91 on Oct 17, 01:28 PM 2011

I wasn't gonna ask before i get told I'm lazy and impatient.. But maybe Kimo li will tell us how he does it and if its followed EXACTLY the way it is explained

.......well at least no one is accusing U of being Lazy and Impotent! he he!!  :twisted:

---

Hopefully he will................


Its so easy to come to this place, post up reams and reams of stats,  as to how well You are doing, and not actual post up ANY results what so ever!


I find it amazing.  :o


I'm sure trades description would have a field day with it all, if ever the bet became a sell-able commodity!


And judging by the recently completed 'POLL'.......all those refunds too!


Is JL actually saying, that the LACK of repeated results, is PURELY down to PATIENCE?


What we need is this.....right.......?


Start Date.
Start time.
Duration.
Finish Time.
Finish Date.
Casino.
Table Type.
Wheel Type.
Dealers Name.
First Spin Number.
Last Spin Numbers.
Bet chip Value.
Did He stop for a break?
Did he take a leak?
Was it raining?
Or
Sun-shinning?




Then, armed with this information, we could ALL go and check if the stats STACK up!
AND, crucially...............would we have played our game the exact same way!


Because if its JUST down to PATIENCE.............. I have a whole back Yard full of that!  :-X

Because if its JUST down to PATIENCE.............. I have a whole back Yard full of that!  :-X





--Me too.................................... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ....it freshened my day reading this straight forward
                                                                            post of yours....good on ya mate 8) 8)

Quote from: Kattila on Oct 14, 05:09 AM 2011
Hit and Run = Luck
You enter real play and can hit a bad run or the good run, never know.
The LW s strategys are like some maps to use and choose what to bet, also
virtual bet is good to avoid some loses.

100% correct! 

  If some wining on this metod on long run,,he must be very luck man......in other words, it is impossible.;)

@Jimmyfarside

There was a man whith good ideas about roulette and also was pumping this place with humor all the time. His only fault was playing on RNG. Some of them are saying he has gone... I dont see him, but now that humor is again all over the place... :wink: What the heck is going on? >:D

Regards

Drazen

No idea mate.
I just keep myself to myself.


rear-guards

Quoterear-guards

lol, swallow a fork that'll guard your rear  :wink: