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Hi all, especially Turbo.

I've deliberately called this new thread "Turbo's Repeaters Simulations"
in the hope that he will notice it, as it would be interesting to have a response.
I have written some simple BASIC programs to simulate betting, and I have copied
one of them below. It simulates betting 1 unit on each roulette number, but only after it shows.

Now, Turbo claims this will reduce the house edge to 0, and that post inspired me to test systems
based on repeaters. Here is the quote -

"The next post is about what happens when the players (instead of flat betting their number every spin)
decide to use a system based on repeaters.
Here are the same spins - the same players - still flat betting only on their number.
The only difference is that each player begins betting on their number only once it shows.
So here are the results to compare to the last 3 cycles. We haven't even put in a progression yet -
the only thing that is different is that they are playing for a repeat to happen on their number
(and they won't remove their bets - they'll just start betting their number once it shows and then every
spin after that until the end of the 3 cycles)
This is the data for all players combined (the house edge from the last test was exactly 5.26% as it should be)
-------------------------------------
So ALL players ended as a group EVEN. The house edge 0.00 !"

The BASIC program below can be run in RUNBASIC.COM or JUSTBASIC.COM. Try it!
In RUNBASIC, go to "write your own" and copy and paste.
You can enter any amount of spins, try 111, = 3 * 37.
You will see after each spin, the amount bet, and the amount won,if any.
Then at the end the total bet and the total won is shown.
You can see that the numbers add up correctly.

While it is true that the occasional run through will show profit, most run
throughs will show a larger loss! This is not playing to a 0 house edge.
Unless I misinterpreted and Turbo meant that ONE particular simulation gave
a balance of 0?
I have written another to simulate betting on 3-shows and above, adding units in ratio to shows, with similar results.

The point is that, according to these simulations, there is no advantage at
all in playing repeaters,and yet we are all spending valuable time thinking
that there is...


1  PRINT "THIS SIM BETS 1 UNIT ON A NUMBER, ONLY AFTER IT HAS SHOWN."
5  INPUT "HOW MANY NUMBERS?  (EVEN)";N
10 DIM A(N)
20 DIM B$(N)
25 DIM B(N)
26 DIM L(N)
27 DIM P(N)
28 REM L = AMOUNTS BET. P = PROFIT EACH SPIN. B(N) = HOW MANY TIMES REPEATED
35 FOR X=1 TO N
40     A(X) = INT(RND(1)*38)
50     B$(X) = "_"
60 NEXT X
70 FOR X = 1 TO N-1
80     FOR Y = X+1 TO N
90         IF A(X) = A(Y) THEN B$(Y) = "R"
95         IF A(X) = A(Y) THEN B(Y) = B(Y) + 1
100    NEXT Y
110 NEXT X
170 L(1)=1
180  FOR X = 2 TO N
185      IF B$(X)="R" THEN L(X)=L(X-1) ELSE L(X)=L(X-1)+1     
200  NEXT X
210 FOR X = 1 TO N
220     IF B$(X)="R" THEN P(X)=36
230 NEXT X

320 FOR X = 1 TO N
330     PRINT "     ";X;"    ";A(X);"    ";B$(X);"    ";B(X);"    AMOUNT BET = ";L(X);"     PROFIT ON SPIN = ";P(X)
340 NEXT X
345 T = 0
346 U= 0
350 FOR X = 1 TO N
360     T = T + L(X)
370     U = U + P(X)
380 NEXT X
390 PRINT "   TOTAL PROFIT = ";U;"   TOTAL BET = ";T

Quote from: daveylibra on Apr 01, 06:18 PM 2018
Hi all, especially Turbo.

I've deliberately called this new thread "Turbo's Repeaters Simulations"
in the hope that he will notice it, as it would be interesting to have a response.
I have written some simple BASIC programs to simulate betting, and I have copied
one of them below. It simulates betting 1 unit on each roulette number, but only after it shows.

Now, Turbo claims this will reduce the house edge to 0, and that post inspired me to test systems
based on repeaters. Here is the quote -

"The next post is about what happens when the players (instead of flat betting their number every spin)
decide to use a system based on repeaters.
Here are the same spins - the same players - still flat betting only on their number.
The only difference is that each player begins betting on their number only once it shows.
So here are the results to compare to the last 3 cycles. We haven't even put in a progression yet -
the only thing that is different is that they are playing for a repeat to happen on their number
(and they won't remove their bets - they'll just start betting their number once it shows and then every
spin after that until the end of the 3 cycles)
This is the data for all players combined (the house edge from the last test was exactly 5.26% as it should be)
-------------------------------------
So ALL players ended as a group EVEN. The house edge 0.00 !"

The BASIC program below can be run in RUNBASIC.COM or JUSTBASIC.COM. Try it!
In RUNBASIC, go to "write your own" and copy and paste.
You can enter any amount of spins, try 111, = 3 * 37.
You will see after each spin, the amount bet, and the amount won,if any.
Then at the end the total bet and the total won is shown.
You can see that the numbers add up correctly.

While it is true that the occasional run through will show profit, most run
throughs will show a larger loss! This is not playing to a 0 house edge.
Unless I misinterpreted and Turbo meant that ONE particular simulation gave
a balance of 0?
I have written another to simulate betting on 3-shows and above, adding units in ratio to shows, with similar results.

The point is that, according to these simulations, there is no advantage at
all in playing repeaters,and yet we are all spending valuable time thinking
that there is...


1  PRINT "THIS SIM BETS 1 UNIT ON A NUMBER, ONLY AFTER IT HAS SHOWN."
5  INPUT "HOW MANY NUMBERS?  (EVEN)";N
10 DIM A(N)
20 DIM B$(N)
25 DIM B(N)
26 DIM L(N)
27 DIM P(N)
28 REM L = AMOUNTS BET. P = PROFIT EACH SPIN. B(N) = HOW MANY TIMES REPEATED
35 FOR X=1 TO N
40     A(X) = INT(RND(1)*38)
50     B$(X) = "_"
60 NEXT X
70 FOR X = 1 TO N-1
80     FOR Y = X+1 TO N
90         IF A(X) = A(Y) THEN B$(Y) = "R"
95         IF A(X) = A(Y) THEN B(Y) = B(Y) + 1
100    NEXT Y
110 NEXT X
170 L(1)=1
180  FOR X = 2 TO N
185      IF B$(X)="R" THEN L(X)=L(X-1) ELSE L(X)=L(X-1)+1     
200  NEXT X
210 FOR X = 1 TO N
220     IF B$(X)="R" THEN P(X)=36
230 NEXT X

320 FOR X = 1 TO N
330     PRINT "     ";X;"    ";A(X);"    ";B$(X);"    ";B(X);"    AMOUNT BET = ";L(X);"     PROFIT ON SPIN = ";P(X)
340 NEXT X
345 T = 0
346 U= 0
350 FOR X = 1 TO N
360     T = T + L(X)
370     U = U + P(X)
380 NEXT X
390 PRINT "   TOTAL PROFIT = ";U;"   TOTAL BET = ";T

I still strongly believe that the HG awnser is hidden in playing repeaters.

"I still strongly believe that the HG awnser is hidden in playing repeaters."

You would be right.
Even the nay-sayers will say that the only way to win is to win at a rate higher than expected. This automatically rules out sleepers and points to hot numbers.
So at least it's something we can all agree on.
You have to win better than the odds of the location showing, random gives us ways to do this.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 01, 07:29 PM 2018
"I still strongly believe that the HG awnser is hidden in playing repeaters."

You would be right.
Even the nay-sayers will say that the only way to win is to win at a rate higher than expected. This automatically rules out sleepers and points to hot numbers.
So at least it's something we can all agree on.
You have to win better than the odds of the location showing, random gives us ways to do this.

Yep, only play the numbers that are showing above average is the way to go. That leaves us less numbers to bet on and a More steady bankroll.

its common sense

never will all 37 numbers hit in 37 spins

99% of the time there is a 3peater and 4peater so id bet on any number thats repeated

Davey, thankyou for that contribution.

But even with the facts in people's faces, it still gets ignored.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 01, 08:05 PM 2018
its common sense

never will all 37 numbers hit in 37 spins

99% of the time there is a 3peater and 4peater so id bet on any number thats repeated

1. Yes 37 numbers is 37 spins will show. Same as any other combination of numbers. You must understand this point.

2. You can't know which numbers will repeat this time or any other, with any change in odds. Repeaters make no difference at all. What you are talking about is illusion and fallacy. Simple testing proves it.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 02, 02:40 AM 2018
1. Yes 37 numbers is 37 spins will show. Same as any other combination of numbers. You must understand this point.

2. You can't know which numbers will repeat this time or any other, with any change in odds. Repeaters make no difference at all. What you are talking about is illusion and fallacy. Simple testing proves it.

1. Yes you are Right, there is Always a change that this Ultra rare event can happen. But the Odds are so astronomic Low that i Will take my changes.
2. I don't need to know when a number repeats itself, only the knowledge that it will.
As Long as i Keep playing numbers that are performing above average, i Have a headstart in the game.

Have a great Easter Monday Steve

1. 37 different numbers in 37 spins is exactly as rare as any other combination of numbers. Why not bet against any rare combination? Theres no difference at all.

2. Hot numbers dont work. Thats why casinos give you that data free. The odds are still 1 in 37.

You are stuck in classic fallacy and just need to test fully.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 02, 04:08 AM 2018

You are stuck in classic fallacy and just need to test fully.

You are wrong, he is on the right way and he is close to hg but need to test on real wheel and real ball, not any kind of simulator rng.

Turbo says he wins because spins are random, but he changes the odds anyway. Do you understand what he is saying?

Based on his claims, beating rng is easiest.

Also RNG = 1 in 37
Unless you can exploit a flawed RNG

The only thing i need to know, is that what goes around, comes around.  :thumbsup:
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/3o84TYaWr47oRcCQfu/giphy.gif)

I don't wish to be a naysayer, I would like it to work.
But I've seen all 37 numbers appear in less than 100 spins, then it's game over,
as we are betting 37 to win 36.

To my mind, a good system would not chain us to the table for hours, and have us put a huge amount of units
on the table at any time.
Turbo, there are a couple of flat-betting systems on your website, eg l.o.t  for streets, would you say it still holds up?

Quote from: daveylibra on Apr 02, 07:30 AM 2018
I don't wish to be a naysayer, I would like it to work.
But I've seen all 37 numbers appear in less than 100 spins, then it's game over,
as we are betting 37 to win 36.

To my mind, a good system would not chain us to the table for hours, and have us put a huge amount of units
on the table at any time.
Turbo, there are a couple of flat-betting systems on your website, eg l.o.t  for streets, would you say it still holds up?

No it won't be game over. Because of the simple fact that when 37 numbers came in 37 spins, i wouldn't Have bet a Penny. :thumbsup:

I've tested Turbo's repeater idea over a gazillion spins.  Unfortunately the results are exactly what probability predicts.

This of course leads me to question the validity of the results others have had using various free mode betting modules.

Rather than test the modules for fitness (free play games), it makes far more sense to just look at basic probability/math to see how the accuracy of the prediction could possibly be improved in the random game... by attempting to exploit the "repeaters."   Turbo says that "math beats a math game," but can't seem to provide any math to support his idea.  The real math says that there's just one or two too many pockets in order for his idea to work in the random game.

Sooo then...where's the logic?  If basic probability says it doesn't work, then why should it???

1.  Is it because past spins reach foward in time to influence future spins?
2.  Is it because the numbers have become self aware?
3. Magic?


-The General

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_562481.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKD7a)

Yes Sir

I'll go with 3. Magic.

Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 04:10 AM 2018
I've tested Turbo's repeater idea over a gazillion spins.  Unfortunately the results are exactly what probability predicts.

This of course leads me to question the validity of the results others have had using various free mode betting modules.

Rather than test the modules for fitness (free play games), it makes far more sense to just look at basic probability/math to see how the accuracy of the prediction could possibly be improved in the random game... by attempting to exploit the "repeaters."   Turbo says that "math beats a math game," but can't seem to provide any math to support his idea.  The real math says that there's just one or two too many pockets in order for his idea to work in the random game.

You mean if there was not one or two too many pockets then his idea will work ?  :xd:

Sooo then...where's the logic?  If basic probability says it doesn't work, then why should it???

1.  Is it because past spins reach foward in time to influence future spins?
2.  Is it because the numbers have become self aware?
3. Magic?


-The General

Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 04:10 AM 2018I've tested Turbo's repeater idea over a gazillion spins.  Unfortunately the results are exactly what probability predicts.

You haven't tested anything... who's "misleading" ?

Live spins from last night -
20 (oldest)
4
32
33
20 repeat
3
27
3 repeat
30
19
22
15
15
15 (go figure - and you can't figure out how to win)
21
12
0
19
15 (good night)

Now if you can't figure this out General - please stick to wobbly wheels and secret devices aimed at the wheel to get by. I can't help you.
You're "testing" in your head never goes past 1 spin - that's all you see.
If you'd understand that it's a game made up of spins (each independent from the last)
combined to give a session result - you might have a chance, but that won't happen.
Waste of time.

"Oh, but those spins will never happen again in that order - it's the same odds as any numbers appearing in any order......" true and true... you just don't get it.
It's not Magic - it's math. "Well, show the math !!!"..... Do it yourself.
Maybe it's just hopeless to keep posting.
Imagine you want a new car but you're too lazy to go to the dealer and buy one.
You want me to build you one from all of the individual parts and then give it to you
because you're that damn lazy to go get it yourself. Sure... Do it yourself.
I gave you everything you need to know - if you insist that I build you the car instead -
it's going to be a long wait. Just claim that cars don't exist and save yourself the
hard work of using common sense and your brains.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 02, 04:08 AM 2018
1. 37 different numbers in 37 spins is exactly as rare as any other combination of numbers. Why not bet against any rare combination? Theres no difference at all.

2. Hot numbers dont work. Thats why casinos give you that data free. The odds are still 1 in 37.

You are stuck in classic fallacy and just need to test fully.

I walk in a casino and this is the history board.
Everyone in the casino says "wow...Ive never seen that before"

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_488133.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKfAS)


I walk in the casino and see this history board and just me says "wow...Ive never seen that before"

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_311388.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKh7o)

Turbo, sorry but you just posted nothing of substance. Nobody is attacking you personally. Dont take it personally.

Quote from: Turner on Apr 04, 07:23 AM 2018
I walk in a casino and this is the history board.
Everyone in the casino says "wow...Ive never seen that before"

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_488133.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKfAS)


I walk in the casino and see this history board and just me says "wow...Ive never seen that before"

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_311388.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKh7o)

:xd: :xd: :xd: :thumbsup:

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 07:20 AM 2018
You haven't tested anything... who's "misleading" ?

Live spins from last night -
20 (oldest)
4
32
33
20 repeat
3
27
3 repeat
30
19
22
15
15
15 (go figure - and you can't figure out how to win)
21
12
0
19
15 (good night)

Now if you can't figure this out General - please stick to wobbly wheels and secret devices aimed at the wheel to get by. I can't help you.
You're "testing" in your head never goes past 1 spin - that's all you see.
If you'd understand that it's a game made up of spins (each independent from the last)
combined to give a session result - you might have a chance, but that won't happen.
Waste of time.

"Oh, but those spins will never happen again in that order - it's the same odds as any numbers appearing in any order......" true and true... you just don't get it.
It's not Magic - it's math. "Well, show the math !!!"..... Do it yourself.
Maybe it's just hopeless to keep posting.
Imagine you want a new car but you're too lazy to go to the dealer and buy one.
You want me to build you one from all of the individual parts and then give it to you
because you're that damn lazy to go get it yourself. Sure... Do it yourself.
I gave you everything you need to know - if you insist that I build you the car instead -
it's going to be a long wait. Just claim that cars don't exist and save yourself the
hard work of using common sense and your brains.

@Turbo,
If i were you, i would stop responding to All these posts, they don't read, they Just asume things and are not willing to put some personal effort in it. It's Just a waste of time to respond to All those Who don't listen. Just my two cents.

Those Who want to learn, Will learn.
Those Who want to Read, Will be leaning. :thumbsup:

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 07:20 AM 2018


Live spins from last night -
20 (oldest)
4
32
33
20 repeat
3
27
3 repeat
30
19
22
15
15
15 (go figure - and you can't figure out how to win)
21
12
0
19
15 (good night)

Nice session....I would only played on 15 , 20 , 3   :thumbsup:

(But only 15 would won)

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 04, 07:56 AM 2018
@Turbo,
If i were you, i would stop responding to All these posts, they don't read, they Just asume things and are not willing to put some personal effort in it. It's Just a waste of time to respond to All those Who don't listen. Just my two cents.

One look for members on forums to play wobbly wheels for him,  the other sells secret devices. Why would they read ?

I read APers need 400units and more bankroll that depends on your edge.

such high level of ignorance. Its actually fascinating. Like flat earthers insisting earth is flat and saying round earthers are the dumb ones....without giving proof except that which proves the opposite.

Flat earthers dont understand really simple logic and testing.

Really this is no different to arguing with flat earthers. They just don't get it. They think everything is a conspiracy. Everyone that disagrees with them is a shill or has something to lose. Their view is twisted. And they don't understand simple logic.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 04, 08:14 AM 2018
such high level of ignorance. Its actually fascinating.

:girl_to:

Quote from: Steve on Apr 04, 08:23 AM 2018
Really this is no different to arguing with flat earthers. They just don't get it. They think everything is a conspiracy. Everyone that disagrees with them is a shill or has something to lose. Their view is twisted. And they don't understand simple logic.

Would love to see FLAT EARTH TURBO VS ROUND EARTH STEVE going man on man on the same table, I know who my money will be on...  :xd:

Poke ur tongue. I jizzed on u. Take it.

Quote from: ZERO on Apr 04, 08:30 AM 2018
Would love to see FLAT EARTH TURBO VS ROUND EARTH STEVE going man on man on the same table, I know who my money will be on...  :xd:

-2.7% vs +20% to+80% edge.
Yes, the math is clear. But this isnt about me.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 04, 08:34 AM 2018
-2.7% vs +20% to+80% edge.
Yes, the math is clear. But this isnt about me.

Sorry Steve, but my money would 't be on you.

First thing i'll do..... whisper something to the pitboss and then put my money on TG  :girl_to:

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 04, 08:39 AM 2018
Sorry Steve, but my money would 't be on you.

It doesn't surprise me. You are one of the flat earthers. The logic, proof and tests are in your face, but you don't understand, and still call earth flat.

Same as you denzie.

Do some proper testing.

Quote from: denzie on Apr 04, 08:46 AM 2018
First thing i'll do..... whisper something to the pitboss and then put my money on TG  :girl_to:

Denzie, would one notice some extra security after the whisper?..  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Well luckily I am today in London and the weather here is stormy so I am laying now on bed and about to start my afternoon nap but this thread just popped up so I am gonna tell my experience with random numbers, turbo claims that he can beat the house with random numbers, I honestly doubt that, in the past I explored randomness extensively by generating random numbers and tested them against a huge db of live spins and found out that sometimes (1 out of 3 ) the method won and ( 2 out of 3) it lost ... in short, you need penis power "above average" in order to use such method and generate profit steadily

Quote from: ZERO on Apr 04, 09:53 AM 2018
Denzie, would one notice some extra security after the whisper?..  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I guess so. And a nice craaaaaaack sound. Thats 80k get stamped on  :lol:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 04, 08:46 AM 2018
First thing i'll do..... whisper something to the pitboss and then put my money on TG  :girl_to:

If the pitboss was a girl the First thing i would do, is to give het a Kiss or a spank  :twisted: Oh what am i saying now? :ooh: luckly my wife doesn't Wonder around here or in the casino  :lol:

@TG.... dont take this stuff to personal. Most people cant make it win. You surely understand that right ? Playing repeaters is a very solid method. But however you play them...losses occur.

The 37/38 people walk in a casino was a good example about the HE. BUT this is not always the case. It was just to make a point.

The time machine is a very Nice way to show how we COULD play repeaters...But again it wont win.

As far this whole repeaters thing is going....the progression (for me) is the key. Coz i cant win every session (sitting , casino visit) . But i sure can win a lot more sessions than i lose.

@the general... pls open a new topic which we all can learn from. And be a men and tell Ken what you really think about his "succes stories"

@steveypoo...I jizzed on you too. But i know your into that stuff.  :girl_to:

@Mr gay....such a big mouth on forums...But nothing , really nothing you shared can win. And your flatbetting . Im starting to understand how those asian chicks could hustle you....you are a nobody. IF YOU REALLY HAVE SOMETHING....WHY NOT PROVE HERE ON MPR OR ROULETTE SIMULATOR OR PARX?  ?  ?  ?  ? Talk is cheap b!tch.... tell me where and when and ill join you

Good evening all  :xd:   :thumbsup:

Now if you can't figure this out General - please stick to wobbly wheels and secret devices aimed at the wheel to get by

Quote. I can't help you.
You're "testing" in your head never goes past 1 spin - that's all you see.
If you'd understand that it's a game made up of spins (each independent from the last)
combined to give a session result - you might have a chance, but that won't happen.
Waste of time.

Turbo,

I fully understand the simple system.  It's not rocket science, it's not new, it's not original.  Betting hot numbers and chasing your losses has been around since long before you were born.

Again, I don't know why you think that I'm  referring to only the next spin, when I'm referring to the long term.  Unlike you, I don't look at only one, a few, or only 100 spins at a time.  I'm interested in what's statistically relevent and those are the true long run results.  Those results are what matter, and those results combined with my testing, basic probability, common sense and logic say that those extra pockets on the wheel are causing you to lose at the house edge.

Perhaps you could engage in a civil and lucid  discussion about the math and probability rather than a babbling list of oxymorons to explain why it works.  (Again we understand the system)

Sorry, just the facts.

Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 03:13 PM 2018
Now if you can't figure this out General - please stick to wobbly wheels and secret devices aimed at the wheel to get byTurbo,

I fully understand the simple system.  It's not rocket science, it's not new, it's not original.  Betting hot numbers and chasing your losses has been around since long before you were born.

Again, I don't know why you think that I'm  referring to only the next spin, when I'm referring to the long term.  Unlike you, I don't look at only one, a few, or only 100 spins at a time.  I'm interested in what's statistically relevent and those are the true long run results.  Those results are what matter, and those results combined with my testing, basic probability, common sense and logic say that those extra pockets on the wheel are causing you to lose at the house edge.

Perhaps you could engage in a civil and lucid  discussion about the math and probability rather than a babbling list of oxymorons to explain why it works.  (Again we understand the system)

Sorry, just the facts.

I don't think you understand one word what Turbo said over and over and over again about his System.
He never loses at the House Edge, why? Because he's not playing at the House Edge!
Long term results are also inrelivent.
And again, he is not chasing his loses, why? Because he knows he wil win.

Quote from: denzie on Apr 04, 01:33 PM 2018@TG.... dont take this stuff to personal. Most people cant make it win. You surely understand that right ?

Nah, not much bothers me anymore.
I do get tired of repeating myself but that's my own choice to do so.
It actually does help people, even though the ones who can never be helped
make the most noise and keep repeating what they believe to be truth.
Or they have some motivation for others not to succeed - I have no idea.
But I don't take things personally - in reality you find that the people who make
the most noise are just arguing with themselves.
Like "You can't possibly win" means "I can't seem to win" or
"It's rigged" means "I don't understand how it's done" or
"nothing of substance" means "I don't understand what you wrote and won't take the time to try to understand it".
After so many years on the forum I can translate what's said into what it means
with little effort.

"basic probability, common sense and logic say that those extra pockets on the wheel are causing you to lose at the house edge." means "I've invested all of my time in finding and playing bias wheels, which are few and far between anymore but know nothing about other ways to win, so I am angry about that - and seeing someone doing this and winning just makes me want to put them down even more...it's not fair".
See ? It's simple. lol
Cheers

wait...
""Would love to see FLAT EARTH TURBO VS ROUND EARTH STEVE going man on man on the same table,""
I never said anything about the earth being flat. I said we see it as round because we are on it and traveling with it at the same speed. To a "traveler" heading "towards" earth around the speed of light - it would be flat (15 meters thick). This is done by calculations and not my opinion, it's the truth. To that observer the earth would be flat yes. To "us" on it - it is not.
And Steve (with a computer) would probably win. I still consider that cheating and until such time you can place the device on the table with the casino knowing full well what it is - (they never will allow this), then it's cheating. I use nothing other than what the wheel gives me - "random" and "math". It's that easy. I couldn't compete with a secret hidden computer that could predict where the ball would land. In a fair game - I would easily win.
By fair game I mean "random" and not pieced together sets of spins and calling it random when it's not.

turbo, that was a load of rubbish. When it comes to a structured discussion with verifiable facts, math and logic, your arguments fall apart. You cant even address simple points without dancing around them.

also i dont care if you think you have the hg. Many players think they have it too. I care that you are misleading and harming people. But when it comes to simple tests and logic that prove your claims wtong, you spurt rubbish like “you guys just dont know better”.

For example, if repeaters changed the odds, then in a 37 spin cycle, a player could just cover repeaters and beat the house edge. But testing clearly proves repeaters change nothing. The odds are the same. Its not a debate. Anyone can test this.

You want it explained in details that go beyond what I'm willing to do.
(for the obvious reasons)
I've provided everything needed. I've provided proof via simulations and live play.
Anyone can replicate my results.
To you I have provided nothing, to you I have provided no proof - any simulation
is fixed (other than the one where you can easily see how I play). Therefore "Rigged" will be the only answer to whatever I use for proof. I've done it on various sites using various type of RNG - and can be done against actuals of course, it won't matter.
Then it is "not enough spins".
My live play has been perfectly in line with simulations but that won't matter either - I'm lying, misleading, etc etc.
It is truly a waste of time (for me) to keep explaining it - you are confident it's all nonsense so it's best to leave it at that. Others have gotten it.
My replying to each point with specifics just plays the game you and a few others want me to play - until in the end I'd reveal each step and calculation in detail.
If you think it's nonsense, rigged, fixed, not enough spins, lies, deception, etc - why on earth would I keep replying and posting ? Like I said, I'll let my live play results speak for themselves - you're then left with "not enough spins" to explain my results - but that's fine... there's no finish line in the future where it would be seen as proof and I don't plan to perform for anyone just to amuse them - while they continue to profess to everyone that it's all nonsense. But.. irrelevant to me - I'll still win and be winning for as long as I want.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 04, 06:36 PM 2018For example, if repeaters changed the odds, then in a 37 spin cycle, a player could just cover repeaters and beat the house edge. But testing clearly proves repeaters change nothing.

QuotePlease read what I said
I just fired up RX - here's what happened : (as I'm making this post)
Spins 1-37 (euro wheel)
1 unit every number for every spin = -37 units = net% -2.70 (house edge)
1 unit every number only once it appears = +100 units = net% +21.01 (not house edge)
1 unit every number only once it repeats = -1 unit = net% -0.69 (not house edge)
+21.01% player's edge and -0.69% house edge are NOT equal to -2.70% house edge.

How can it be any more clear that the test sample where every number is played ends at -2.70% as it should -
playing a number once it shows ended at +21.01% player's edge.

You can argue that the math is the same - it's not. Repeaters change nothing ?
I tried.

Is Caleb also......STEVE?!




(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHLzm4BCF8zfPy0/giphy.gif)

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018You want it explained in details that go beyond what I'm willing to do.

No, you ALREADY gave enough details to know your approach doesn't work. I already explained it in detail, but you wont respond to that.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018(for the obvious reasons)

No its not a conspiracy to get you to give me your HG. That's the excuse you often give to avoid addressing key points which invalidate your claims. Again you already gave enough information.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018I've provided everything needed. I've provided proof via simulations and live play.

Live play? Where? Was it more than 20 spins?

And you mean Parx, mathematically rigged although you still dont understand it? Or RS, with the ridiculous table limits and unknown rng source. The only worthwhile test I know you've done was MPR and it was a clear loss.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018Therefore "Rigged" will be the only answer to whatever I use for proof. I've done it on various sites using various type of RNG - and can be done against actuals of course, it won't matter.

So when you test on a rigged game, we should ignore that and accept your test as valid??

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018Then it is "not enough spins".

Including parx and RS you have probably demonstrate enough spins to be statistically relevant, although not conclusive. A more relevant problem is where you are testing, as explained before.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018It is truly a waste of time (for me) to keep explaining it - you are confident it's all nonsense so it's best to leave it at that.

Yes and AGAIN you dance around critical points. See my other post. Why dance around? You keep hiding behind "gee I already told you, you're just not getting it" instead of addressing what matters.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 06:46 PM 2018If you think it's nonsense, rigged, fixed, not enough spins, lies, deception, etc - why on earth would I keep replying and posting ?

Could be many reasons. Avoiding looking "wrong", ego, who knows.

For as long as you keep misleading people and avoiding the important points, you'll get flak.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:05 PM 2018Is Caleb also......STEVE?!

No, just two different people with proper logic and understanding. We are not unique. But proper understanding is rare on forums.

And don't call me Shirley.

i enjoy betting strategies knowing full well that they conquer no edge....thats why i work for a living

That's fine RG, but turbo claims to have the Hg and that he never loses. And he has a few clueless people he's misleading. It's a very different case to casual play.

TG

what prevents you from sharing your strategy?

I am not asking you to.....but what prevents you

why is it a big deal if people know how you play? obviously it wont shut the casinos down...why so secretive

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 07:00 PM 2018How can it be any more clear that the test sample where every number is played ends at -2.70% as it should -
playing a number once it shows ended at +21.01% player's edge.

You can argue that the math is the same - it's not. Repeaters change nothing ?
I tried.

You know I could bet red and win 5 spins in a row. That's a big edge too. But it's not how you calculate edge.

Exactly how did you calculate 21.01% edge?

If repeaters changed the odds, then you could just bet on repeaters in a 37 spin cycle and win with a 21.01% edge. Let's make it simpler.... you said to bet on repeaters, and would be crazy to not bet on a number that repeated 3 times. So try that - and bet on that number for 37 spins.

And do that perhaps 1,000 times (when you see a qualified repeater). You'll find that repeater wont spin any more frequently than another number. You'll still get 1 in 37. Nothing has changed.

Anyone can test this easily.

From this simple point, your logic falls flat.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 07:00 PM 2018
How can it be any more clear that the test sample where every number is played ends at -2.70% as it should -
playing a number once it shows ended at +21.01% player's edge.

You can argue that the math is the same - it's not. Repeaters change nothing ?
I tried.

@Turbo,
I've sended you a few PM's.  :thumbsup:

When they have no understanding, are incapable of logical thought, and believe what they find convenient:
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Jekh, imagine someone told you 1 + 1 = 42. Then you checked on a calculator.... just to make sure.

You then showed the person the result. But they ignore it, and still insist you are wrong. You then show them one apple, then another apple. And say "see, together it makes 2". But you get ignored again. The person just seems set in their beliefs, and unwilling to listen to reason.

It is just like trying to reason with someone who believes the Earth is flat. At some point, you have to conclude this person is a lost cause. They are just not listening or thinking. And if they are thinking, their understanding of reality is so poor you start to wonder what their problem is.

It doesnt matter how clear you make your proof, they just don't get it.

That's very much like what's happening here. It's not an insult. It is not an opinion. The difference is it involves multiple people, and the math is a tiny bit more complicated (not by much).

I suggest rather than blindly follow, test properly for yourself. Then the discussion is very easily settled. If you dont understand the purpose of the tests, you need to go back and understand first.

Also once my level of understanding was so poor too. But once i decided I wanted the truth, no matter how inconvenient, I very quickly learned.

Do you want truth, or perception of convenience? Which will benefit you more?

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 04, 05:26 PM 2018
wait...
""Would love to see FLAT EARTH TURBO VS ROUND EARTH STEVE going man on man on the same table,""
I never said anything about the earth being flat. I said we see it as round because we are on it and traveling with it at the same speed. To a "traveler" heading "towards" earth around the speed of light - it would be flat (15 meters thick). This is done by calculations and not my opinion, it's the truth. To that observer the earth would be flat yes. To "us" on it - it is not.
And Steve (with a computer) would probably win. I still consider that cheating and until such time you can place the device on the table with the casino knowing full well what it is - (they never will allow this), then it's cheating. I use nothing other than what the wheel gives me - "random" and "math". It's that easy. I couldn't compete with a secret hidden computer that could predict where the ball would land. In a fair game - I would easily win.
By fair game I mean "random" and not pieced together sets of spins and calling it random when it's not.

Hey Turbo, apologies but I did not imply that you said the earth was flat, I was just making reference to Steve`s post about the flat earthers and who he was referring to.

All I want is world peace and a winning roulette system...  :xd:

Steve
You've banged your big drum, a 1/3rd of replies are yours, some don't need you constantly telling them Test,test, it's a free society, well supposed to be, apart from those that bang the big drum.

Let them find out for themselves, you found out, so you say, perhaps Mr copy and paste found out the hard way, but the hard way is a lesson well learnt.

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Steve look to the above, there's a similarity. The similarity is in spins 11-40 avg 15.4

So if members can accept on avg 15 non-hit and 15 repeats happen, theres Turbos repeats.

Can members use info for the 4 blocks of 10 spins, at spin 1 whats the larger group, spin 11 whats the larger group, whats happened in 21-30 and 31-40, yes the 1spin each time for 40 spins gives the avg's

In all of Morts posted games the 4 blocks of 10 spins are similar, so find out how in 40 spins an avg of 15 non-hit and 15 repeats happen, if you believe Turbo that repeats are the way, get the green tracker and see how the repeats come.

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Notto,

Why are you testing such short term samples?

Expand your horizons.  Test 10 to 100k spins at a time.   You're wasting your time charting small samples and that leads to cherry picking the results. (Unintentional curve fitting.)  Think long term.

C'mon, dude, In this case I think the real-time testing over shorter duration is preferable to testing 10-100k sessions which, realistically, is never going to happen in actual live play...

Atlantis, that's one of the biggest and most common mistakes.  long term testing is not for short or long term results specifically. It is to determine true effectiveness.

This is critical to understand.

QuoteIs Caleb also......STEVE?!

(link:://:.abc.net.au/news/image/8004468-3x2-340x227.jpg)

Oh no!  We are two different people as you can clearly see.
And I'm much better looking!

Quote from: Steve on Apr 05, 06:11 AM 2018
Atlantis, that's one of the biggest and most common mistakes.  long term testing is not for short or long term results specifically. It is to determine true effectiveness.

This is critical to understand.

I probably got the wrong idea then - was under the impression and thought he meant continuous play over such a large amt of spins. Of course more tests need to be done. I am totally in favour of that, just to clear up any misunderstanding I have no problem in accepting that fact, General. ;)

A.

carefully read what i said.  to be clearer, any edge applies to both short and long term.

the point of long term testing is simply to verify the real edge.

like with roulette computers... in my demos i do about 120 spins, so the edge is clear. But we almost never play that many spins in real play.

we can do so few spins for tests because theres lots of data for validation - not just accuracy. with a system, proper validation needs far more spins, even if you play only short term.

put another way, if a casino loses 5% in a day on a wheel, does it mean their edge is 5% loss? No, its just short term result. what a system player doing short term tests does is just looks at meaningless short term results.

Quote from: The General on Apr 05, 06:15 AM 2018
(link:://:.abc.net.au/news/image/8004468-3x2-340x227.jpg)

Oh no!  We are two different people as you can clearly see.
And I'm much better looking!

and im the snappier dresser

Quote from: The General on Apr 05, 05:58 AM 2018Notto,

Why are you testing such short term samples?

because i only need to know how it comes  for 60 spins

Simply put, this 21.01% players edge is just 1 session.
Any 1 session can be good, doing anything.
Wouldn't you want to know the average after, say, 50 sessions, if putting your money on the table?

Quote from: daveylibra on Apr 05, 07:49 AM 2018
Simply put, this 21.01% players edge is just 1 session.
Any 1 session can be good, doing anything.
Wouldn't you want to know the average after, say, 50 sessions, if putting your money on the table?

But isn`t each session in 50 sessions just 1 session?..

A result is not an edge, unless you have other data to back it up

21.01% is just a result after a few spins. It's not an edge.
I've tested it with 111 spins (3*37) , then repeated 100 times.
It's way in the negative.

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:33 AM 2018
because i only need to know how it comes  for 60 spins

A new day, a new fallacy
50 spins are not quite enough for a real test ... I always test my system with different tables, different dealers...

ok how does Generals bias wheel fair over a million spins, who cares, ask your self do casinos leave there wheels on the same table, answer no, after a gentleman took a casino to the cleaners, how by being an engineer he knew wheels had a bias, end of the day they now move wheels, seen at Luton hub being moved to differnt position, end of bias wheels.

End of the General

Quote from: daveylibra on Apr 05, 08:05 AM 2018
21.01% is just a result after a few spins. It's not an edge.
I've tested it with 111 spins (3*37) , then repeated 100 times.
It's way in the negative.

But what if I only need a few spins for my result in a session and only a few spins for my next result in the next session etc... and without saying I have an edge I just get good results?...

RB
carry on with your 1000's of spins, will you play for 1000's of spins in one day at B+M you'd be lucky to get 800 to 1000 in 8 hrs

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 08:20 AM 2018
RB
carry on with your 1000's of spins, will you play for 1000's of spins in one day at B+M you'd be lucky to get 800 to 1000 in 8 hrs

Ok sir, try to look at it from the other corner.

I am also not interested in playing 1000 spins but as a matter of principle, the more your sample of data is wider, the more you become sure how your systems performs in the long term.

You system may succeed one day over 60 spins, you gonna probably afterwards take earlier assumption/conclusion and later the system falls on its knee !

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 05, 08:26 AM 2018
Ok sir, try to look at it from the other corner.

I am also not interested in playing 1000 spins but as a matter of principle, the more your sample of data is wider, the more you become sure how your systems performs in the long term.

You system may succeed one day over 60 spins, you gonna probably afterwards take earlier assumption/conclusion and later the system falls on its knee !

When you All gonna learn? :yawn:
It's not about long term results!
Why? Because they don't matter.
I don't need to know what my System does over 10.000 spins! Why, because each session is Independent from every other session i play. They Have nothing to do wich eachother . I only want to know what my System Will do after 10.000 spins, only when i am playing a session of 10.000 spins! Well that ain't gonna happen. Most spins i play are between 100 and 200 per session, but Most of the Time lesser then that. So please stop with that every session needs to be tested for so many spins, I DOnN't need the awnser!

Jek read my recent post about long term testing. Youre making classic mistakes

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 05, 08:44 AM 2018Most spins i play are between 100 and 200 per session, but Most of the Time lesser then that. So please stop with that every session needs to be tested for so many spins, I DOnN't need the awnser!

So if someone plays a system and wins after 100 or 200 bets, can we conclude that it's a winning system?  ;D

Seriously, your argument is so illogical I wonder whether you should be allowed out on your own (no offense intended).

And I think TurboGenius won't tell us the rules of his system because he fears that then someone will code it and show it to be a loser.

Quote from: CoderJoe on Apr 05, 09:03 AM 2018
So if someone plays a system and wins after 100 or 200 bets, can we conclude that it's a winning system?  ;D

Seriously, your argument is so illogical I wonder whether you should be allowed out on your own (no offense intended).

And I think TurboGenius won't tell us the rules of his system because he fears that then someone will code it and show it to be a loser.

Why are you here exactly?

So far all you have done is criticize people

Counter productive for a forum

Have anything of value to share?

Quote from: CoderJoe on Apr 05, 09:03 AM 2018
So if someone plays a system and wins after 100 or 200 bets, can we conclude that it's a winning system?  ;D

Seriously, your argument is so illogical I wonder whether you should be allowed out on your own (no offense intended).

And I think TurboGenius won't tell us the rules of his system because he fears that then someone will code it and show it to be a loser.

If someones plays a system and wins after 100 or 200 bets and does the same for a million different sessions I will conclude that it`s a good enough system to make some decent money...  :thumbsup:

Right.  :thumbsup:

Any and all methods will lose long term due to the house edge


What system players do is play in a unique way with a set of rules to hit a target and quit

No matter what you test long term it will fail. It is called the house edge and unfair payout

That’s why the true time wasters are the ones testing millions of spins. Like coderjoe. It’s a waste of time.

That’s why some of us bet against patterns at times we know it is likely we will win but must stop before he house edge catches up

It’s called playing for a statistically irrelevant number of spins

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 09:44 AM 2018
Any and all methods will lose long term due to the house edge


What system players do is play in a unique way with a set of rules to hit a target and quit

No matter what you test long term it will fail. It is called the house edge and unfair payout

That’s why the true time wasters are the ones testing millions of spins. Like coderjoe. It’s a waste of time.

That’s why some of us bet against patterns at times we know it is likely we will win but must stop before he house edge catches up

It’s called playing for a statistically irrelevant number of spins

WELL SAID!!!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 09:44 AM 2018
Any and all methods will lose long term due to the house edge


What system players do is play in a unique way with a set of rules to hit a target and quit

No matter what you test long term it will fail. It is called the house edge and unfair payout

That’s why the true time wasters are the ones testing millions of spins. Like coderjoe. It’s a waste of time.

That’s why some of us bet against patterns at times we know it is likely we will win but must stop before he house edge catches up

It’s called playing for a statistically irrelevant number of spins

I couldn't said it better myself   :thumbsup::thumbsup:

No, not all systems lose but most.

systems that exploit the wheel inperfections as well as physics are definitely winners

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 09:44 AM 2018That’s why some of us bet against patterns at times we know it is likely we will win but must stop before he house edge catches up

All patterns have the same probability so you are equally likely to win when betting against any of them. And the house edge doesn't "catch up" because it's there on every bet.

After read many posts about this turbo guy and other members and your struggle about holy grail I can tell you that you are so close to discover really working system, but am I the only one here who see the big flaw in roulette, that one tiny thing that you on this forum can not connect, it always make me laugh  :lol:

Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 05, 12:44 PM 2018
After read many posts about this turbo guy and other members and your struggle about holy grai,l I can tell you that you are so close to discover really working system, but am I the only one here who see the big flaw in roulette, that one tiny thing that you on this forum can not connect, it always make me laugh  :lol:
[/quote

FLAW   I see it you have 37/38 numbers and payout is 35/1 in favour of casino that's a Flaw but not for us. So sorri no flaw in roulette..

for example this is the type of guys I'm talking about.

Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 05, 01:04 PM 2018
for example this is the type of guys I'm talking about.

Why are you here then? And not in the casino to play the Hell out of you winning System?  :lol:

Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 05, 01:04 PM 2018
for example this is the type of guys I'm talking about.

Let's have the Flaw red what's the your secret :)

Quote from: Winner on Apr 05, 01:22 PM 2018
Let's have the Flaw red what's the your secret :)

Yes we All want to know  :lol:

Bet on 7 and spin the wheel baby 35/1

Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 05, 02:48 PM 2018
Bet on 7 and spin the wheel baby 35/1

Oh really?? Thanks man, i'm already on my way to my local casino!!! Man... I'm gonna Make them cry tonight! Oh what i can do with All that money. Thanks man for your HG  :lol:  :twisted:

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 05, 03:11 PM 2018
Oh really?? Thanks man, i'm already on my way to my local casino!!! Man... I'm gonna Make them cry tonight! Oh what i can do with All that money. Thanks man for your HG  :lol:  :twisted:
[/quote

I think he's telling the truth, it's  because  it's in between to blacks .man why did I waist so much time betting on 5

Quote from: Winner on Apr 05, 03:27 PM 2018

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 05, 03:11 PM 2018
Oh really?? Thanks man, i'm already on my way to my local casino!!! Man... I'm gonna Make them cry tonight! Oh what i can do with All that money. Thanks man for your HG  :lol:  :twisted:
[/quote

I think he's telling the truth, it's  because  it's in between to blacks .man why did I waist so much time betting on 5

Yes, and i was Elvis Presley.

The point of testing lots of spins is still not umderstood. Whether you test 100 or 100,000 spins, each spin is affected by the house edge the same amount.

But with 100 spins, variance could mean you win even with a losing system that's no better than random bets.

But with 100,000 spins tested you can see a more accurate idea of system performance.

It doesnt mean you'll play that many spins. It's just a test.

So if you test 100 spins and think your system is great... what happens when 100 other players use it? Most will lose. So your system is crap as random bets. Youre only deluded thinking otherwise.

What people here calla good or bad system is actually no different to random bets with random unit size. Thinking otherwise is an illusion.

Its still not being understood and people here are frankly talking shit.

When the spins are random, how do you know if your higher bets will win? You don't its random. You could win big or lose big. You are waiting for the big win, but its not due. Nothing is. You just have the same odds every time.

And when you see your system loses, you change it and try again, and win. Then you think you finally have it. But no, try again. The new system loses too.

Wake up and understand reality.

I agree with everyone that says we won't ever play 1 million spins. Of course not.
But suppose we want to use a particular system once every day.
OK, lets test it first, see what happens after 100 days (without risking money.)
That's what I did, simulated it 100 times.
It went like this...1 win a little, 2 lose a lot etc.

Quote
I agree with everyone that says we won't ever play 1 million spins. Of course not.
But suppose we want to use a particular system once every day.
OK, lets test it first, see what happens after 100 days (without risking money.)
That's what I did, simulated it 100 times.
It went like this...1 win a little, 2 lose a lot etc.

how did you test it as there were never any rules poost it out...just wonder

M
Perhaps davy could show a simulated 100 games on R-sim

Or better yet, show us 5 spins. I dont ever intend to play more. I only need a system that works in 5 spins.

I have an idea. I have a system that wins 98% of the time. But it loses after 20 spins.

We only need 50 of us to play at the same time.  Just 20 spins each. That's 98% guaranteed profit. Then we'll split the profits.

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Here we are aiming to win minimum 10 units, minimum 10, ok

Only 83 spins, i'll do some more tomorrow

the last game i should have stopped at +35, tired so even better+54

Lady luck

Sorry to say that the reality is tilting to steves side in my real play after a year for the first time. I still want to go to turbos side bcz i also need a working system. My need and reality not same. There may b chance of improvement i dont know . My play was based on what turbo described here. If there is more secret then i dont know. I might request denzie to discuss about losing session which can be a vital things.

Quote from: Madi on Apr 05, 08:08 PM 2018
Sorry to say that the reality is tilting to steves side in my real play after a year for the first time. I still want to go to turbos side bcz i also need a working system. My need and reality not same. There may b chance of improvement i dont know . My play was based on what turbo described here. If there is more secret then i dont know. I might request denzie to discuss about losing session which can be a vital things.

instead of trying to figure out what number is going to show 1 time.... because you can't really...
try to figure out which number is going to repeat !!!!!!!! ------- TurboGenius

The basic secret, if any, is don't bet all the shows.

Quote from: Madi on Apr 05, 08:08 PM 2018Sorry to say that the reality is tilting to steves side in my real play after a year for the first time

It's not MY side. It's just reality.

Quote from: cht on Apr 05, 09:44 PM 2018
instead of trying to figure out what number is going to show 1 time.... because you can't really...
try to figure out which number is going to repeat !!!!!!!! ------- TurboGenius

The basic secret, if any, is don't bet all the shows.

Turbo's way of determine which number will repeat.... is by looking at which numbers are repeating. It doesn't work like that, unless there is a real physical reason for a number being more likely to spin. Turbo is unfortunately flat wrong. I would love to see everyone start focusing on NEW approaches. Hot numbers and repeaters is as old as gambling itself. It doesn't work.

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(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_220177.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sG0iQ)

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 08:17 AM 2018
ok how does Generals bias wheel fair over a million spins, who cares, ask your self do casinos leave there wheels on the same table, answer no, after a gentleman took a casino to the cleaners, how by being an engineer he knew wheels had a bias, end of the day they now move wheels, seen at Luton hub being moved to differnt position, end of bias wheels.

End of the General

1.  The General fairs quite well.   ;)  After all, I am me and I have one hell of an edge over the casino.  The longer I play, the more I win.  It's that simple.

(link:://:.oneangryman.com/ken/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Dr-Evil-2.jpg)
2. When the casino moves wheels, it's to the players advantage, not the casinos for reasons which you probably don't grasp.  But I'll give you some insight.  It enables players such as my self to visit the wheels in new positions, proving camouflage and increasing our longevity.
By the way, I'm not just a bias defect player, I'm very heavily into visual ballistics (without computer).
(link:s://imnotstalkingyou.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/duh-einstein.jpg)
3.  Tracking wheel moves is childishly simple.  Just follow the wheel marks.  DUH!

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:27 PM 2018
the last game i should have stopped at +35, tired so even better+54

Lady luck

(link:://:.superkids.com/aweb/pages/reviews/e_read/3/catinhat/title.gif)

You're playing the curve fitting game, whether you know it or not.   "Would of quit here.  Would have bet more here.  Would have done this or that, with The Cat in The Hat."

General i just sailed past your replies and will do for ever more
Anyway RG hit and run

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_322170.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sGAaU)

LoOkINg  GoOd For win 10 units per game

Quote from: The General on Apr 06, 05:13 AM 2018
1.  The General fairs quite well.   ;)  After all, I am me and I have one hell of an edge over the casino.  The longer I play, the more I win.  It's that simple.

(link:://:.oneangryman.com/ken/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Dr-Evil-2.jpg)
2. When the casino moves wheels, it's to the players advantage, not the casinos for reasons which you probably don't grasp.  But I'll give you some insight.  It enables players such as my self to visit the wheels in new positions, proving camouflage and increasing our longevity.
By the way, I'm not just a bias defect player, I'm very heavily into visual ballistics (without computer).
(link:s://imnotstalkingyou.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/duh-einstein.jpg)
3.  Tracking wheel moves is childishly simple.  Just follow the wheel marks.  DUH!

Steve is right. It's all talk.

Any fool can do bullshit talk.

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:29 AM 2018
General i just sailed past your replies and will do for ever more
Anyway RG hit and run

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_322170.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sGAaU)

LoOkINg  GoOd For win 10 units per game

Your win goal is only ten units per game!???
That's absurdly low.

Quote from: The General on Apr 06, 05:13 AM 2018

By the way, I'm not just a bias defect player, I'm very heavily into visual ballistics (without computer).
(link:s://imnotstalkingyou.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/duh-einstein.jpg)
3.  Tracking wheel moves is childishly simple.  Just follow the wheel marks.  DUH!

Teach us instead of only talk  :thumbsup:

Roulette is a Random game as you All know. Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events. A random sequence of events, symbols or steps has no order and does not follow an intelligible pattern or combination. Individual random events are by definition unpredictable, but in many cases the frequency of different outcomes over a large number of events (or "trials") is predictable. For example, when throwing two dice, the outcome of any particular roll is unpredictable, but a sum of 7 will occur twice as often as 4.
The only thing that can beat ramdom is ramdomness itself. But i'm still repeating myself over and over again, like to many of us.
Do i Have the awnser? No, do i win More then i lose? Yes.

Quote from: denzie on Apr 06, 05:49 AM 2018
Teach us instead of only talk  :thumbsup:

Den,
They won't teach us! They only want to make themself more important.

Quote from: The General on Apr 06, 05:44 AM 2018Your win goal is only ten units per game!???
That's absurdly low.

Thicko what unit am i using, if like your mate at GF one would play with top dogg (like it Turner)  units.

As, Oh i hate this, Steve says unbelieveable units being used at R-sim, yes to look good at top of leaderboard, But cunty i play with sensible units like most members would use in the real world, not like Top DoGGs' world, DUH

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 06, 05:54 AM 2018
Den,
They won't teach us! They only want to make themself more important.

NPD - narcissistic personality disorder.

No matter how hard they try they can't hide the symptoms.

link:s://:.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

QuoteI would love to see everyone start focusing on NEW approaches. Hot numbers and repeaters is as old as gambling itself. It doesn't work.

you got hard time getting some of old things can imagine what would be like with new approaches :twisted: :twisted:

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_840915.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sGX2V)

So is R-sim worth using, is it letting the bet win. Or is it?
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_406965.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sGa1t)

Are players really betting this in the real world

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:00 AM 2018
Thicko what unit am i using, if like your mate at GF one would play with top dogg (like it Turner)  units.

As, Oh i hate this, Steve says unbelieveable units being used at R-sim, yes to look good at top of leaderboard, But cunty i play with sensible units like most members would use in the real world, not like Top DoGGs' world, DUH

My point is that winning only 10 units is trvial.  It's insignificant.  Here's why.  Even if you had a tiny edge over the casino of one or two percent, the variance would be thousands of units!  This means your 10 units is miniscule.  Meaningless. 

600 spins tested over how many games?  To me it appears as though you're just cherry picking when to quit because your too afraid to play a statistically relevant number of spins.  ::)

Sorry, just the facts.

-The General

A lot of what you say is opinion based

YOU say 10 units is insignificant. For some people that could be life changing or paying off bills or whatever

Some people are content making a few units a day. Especially if the unit sizer is larger.

You can’t speak for everyone that’s number 1. Number 2 we know what you think because you have repeated yourself for many years

It’s like.....a broken record

At least we agree on the statistically  relevant number of spins that gives hit and run players their success.

No one cares about playing a statistically significant number of spins if they are winning with what they are doing.  We know the house edge is there and it will fail. So we play insignificant number of spins. sorry, just the facts.

Quote from: The General on Apr 06, 02:42 PM 2018To me it appears as though you're just cherry picking when to quit because your too afraid to play a statistically relevant number of spins.

Who ever you are, i have 10 games with the target of minimum 10 units, that unit if you are like Mr Top dogg, could be using $25 units.
Who ever you are, I was in Ladbrokes won 40 units, 10 units from each machine, walked a winner, like RG says hit and run.
Found a wheel yet  :twisted:

I just don’t understand the logic of telling someone something doesn’t work because they don’t play the number of spins they see fit to make it lose

Lol.

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 03:03 PM 2018
Who ever you are, i have 10 games with the target of minimum 10 units, that unit if you are like Mr Top dogg, could be using $25 units.
Who ever you are, I was in Ladbrokes won 40 units, 10 units from each machine, walked a winner, like RG says hit and run.
Found a wheel yet  :twisted:

Notto

Doesn’t matter that your tactic wins everyday

It doesn’t work. 

:xd:

Rich, old cunty  must be like a thick (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_783853.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssEgB)

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 03:06 PM 2018
Rich, old cunty  must be like a thick (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_783853.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssEgB)

Old cunty!!!


(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/l1ug3xGEN1oZBT7qw/giphy.gif)

@ General...can you post a graph say distribution of outcomes when you have biased wheel just wonder how does it look like..and what makes you bet on what you bet... thanks

Quote from: maestro on Apr 06, 03:23 PM 2018
@ General...can you post a graph say distribution of outcomes when you have biased wheel just wonder how does it look like..and what makes you bet on what you bet... thanks

No

Because it’s likely they don’t exist and he is playing for an insignificant number of spins

His wins are due to luck.

To who ever you are
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_658538.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssWT9)
Who ever you are, how can i cherry pick, look at each graph, its just win and reset 

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_661573.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssM7D)

See 10 games around 90 spins, not millions like you quote

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 03:46 PM 2018
To who ever you are
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_658538.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssWT9)
Who ever you are, how can i cherry pick, look at each graph, its just win and reset 

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_661573.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssM7D)

See 10 games around 90 spins, not millions like you quote

His (very stupid) logic is that if you do not play long enough to lose, then it is insignificant and meaningless

The actual wins mean nothing because it’s a negative expectation game

In his dumbass eyes

Now I’ve yet to see AP proof from this clown over all these years

1. The insignificance of low volume of spins is not opinion. Try asking a statastician. Even a student would understand the math.

2. You ask to be taught, but you have, repeatedly. You are ignoring the lessons and advice.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 06, 04:25 PM 2018


2. You ask to be taught, but you have, repeatedly. You are ignoring the lessons and advice.

WRONG

Maybe you did not read my signature?

I have always argued long term million spin tests mean nothing for system players that hit and run OR play for an insignificant number of spins

I like you Steve. But you have a business to sell computers. Anything else is not part of the agenda

I get it.

Fully aware anything fails long term due to house edge

Nothing new here. Coders are wasting time. Play your system hit and run and be happy.

By the way. Your #1 point. Low spins. That’s my argument. You made my point for me. Playing low spins gives graphs like nottos

Quote from: Steve on Apr 06, 04:25 PM 2018
1. The insignificance of low volume of spins is not opinion. Try asking a statastician. Even a student would understand the math.

This is the point I have been making!!!!

This is to our advantage

System players win because of the insignificant number of spins

Which is what we do

Quote from: The General on Apr 06, 02:42 PM 2018
My point is that winning only 10 units is trvial.  It's insignificant.   Here's why.  Even if you had a tiny edge over the casino of one or two percent, the variance would be thousands of units! This means your 10 units is miniscule.  Meaningless. 

600 spins tested over how many games?  To me it appears as though you're just cherry picking when to quit because your too afraid to play a statistically relevant number of spins.  ::)

Sorry, just the facts.

-The General

Steve,  you agree with that. Now we know your ignorance.

Hahahahahaha :xd:  :xd: :xd:

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:56 PM 2018His (very stupid) logic is that if you do not play long enough to lose, then it is insignificant and meaningless

if you do not play long enough to lose, then it is insignificant and meaningless
You are right RG he's as thick as that plank of wood, and by the look of it, his half bro is as well, Why would any person playing roulette play longer than the necessary spins to win, you, I and the members learn game by game, we know you do not stay longer than you have too as the RFH is going to come, these (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_973037.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ssNzL) obviously don't, Steve and who ever you are

Quote
@ General...can you post a graph say distribution of outcomes when you have biased wheel just wonder how does it look like..and what makes you bet on what you bet... thanks

i ask again just in case ...thanks

QuoteI like you Steve. But you have a business to sell computers. Anything else is not part of the agenda

no you dont get it. i could sell popcorn and it wouldnt change the truth.

You dont get i do well for myself with or without selling anything, and couldnt give a flying fuck if someone didnt want to buy a computer. Simply they are available and anyone can do their own research if interested.

If you knew me, youd know i put truth well ahead of personal interest. But you dont know me. You base opinion on what you think you or others would do.

The entire professional world agrees with me and caleb. It must be a grand conspiracy, right?

Or maybe the majority of people on forums just dont get it.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 06, 08:20 PM 2018
no you dont get it. i could sell popcorn and it wouldnt change the truth.

You dont get i do well for myself with or without selling anything, and couldnt give a flying f*** if someone didnt want to buy a computer. Simply they are available and anyone can do their own research if interested.

If you knew me, youd know i put truth well ahead of personal interest. But you dont know me. You base opinion on what you think you or others would do.

The entire professional world agrees with me and caleb. It must be a grand conspiracy, right?

Or maybe the majority of people on forums just dont get it.

I think it is yourself and caleb that do not get it

noone claims to beat the math or the house edge...at least the sane people do not

you made my point very clear with "1. The insignificance of low volume of spins is not opinion. Try asking a statastician. Even a student would understand the math."

think about that

And this belief that you can win long term by playing short term sessions is bullshit.

no

it is not

you say "you are only winning because you are not playing enough spins"

Caleb will agree with me (i think) that the key to being successful IF YOU DO NOT EXPLOIT THE WHEEL IN SOME WAY is to play a statistically insignificant number of spins

this is what gives system's players success

No, playing fewer spins does not make players win. Will your theory work if 100 players all played just one session in their life?

ok so then we can no longer say we need to test a million spins? that what you are saying...thats what it sounds like

Where did i say that? Read my recent posts. Never is short term an indicator of system effectiveness.

Its all here so i dont need to repeat:
:.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/

Everyone here should read it.

short term winning does NOT MEAN a system wins LONG TERM you and Caleb as usual miss the point on this. noone is saying that

im going with my regular scheduled programming

Quote from: maestro on Apr 06, 07:08 PM 2018
i ask again just in case ...thanks

Ok Maestro.  I will just for you.
Give me another four hours or so and I'll fix you up with as many as you'd like to see.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:54 PM 2018
short term winning does NOT MEAN  a system wins LONG TERM you and Caleb as usual miss the point on this. noone is saying that

im going with my regular scheduled programming

Hmmm...interesting.  Soooo essentially you feel that people like Notto are wasting their time testing their sYstEms???  Right? :thumbsup:

Quote from: cht on Apr 06, 05:48 PM 2018
Steve,  you agree with that. Now we know your ignorance.

Hahahahahaha :xd:  :xd: :xd:

Actually general was right. We are not the ignorant ones.

Quote from: The General on Apr 06, 10:37 PM 2018
Hmmm...interesting.  Soooo essentially you feel that people like Notto are wasting their time testing their sYstEms???  Right? :thumbsup:

No

you test a style of play to see how it does

in PERFECT conditions every time the wheel spins you lose $5 every $100

however that does not happen...... to see that you have to go out to millions of spins...which we do not do

so if a method does well short term so be it...DONT PLAY FOR A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF SPINS

no defective wheels nowadays?

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 02:58 PM 2018
YOU say 10 units is insignificant. For some people that could be life changing or paying off bills or whatever

Some people are content making a few units a day. Especially if the unit sizer is larger.

A few units per day? Are 100 players with the same system going to do this? You are missing the point.

Rg do you think there's a difference between 100 players playing 1 spin, and 1 player playing 100 spins?

By your logic, there is.

QuoteI will just for you.
Give me another four hours or so and I'll fix you up with as many as you'd like to see.  :thumbsup:

thanks :thumbsup:

Quote from: Steve on Apr 06, 04:25 PM 2018
2. You ask to be taught, but you have, repeatedly. You are ignoring the lessons and advice.

(link:://pichost.org/images/2018/04/07/1.md.jpg) (link:://pichost.org/image/s2YVU)

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:54 PM 2018
short term winning does NOT MEAN a system wins LONG TERM you and Caleb as usual miss the point on this. noone is saying that

ALL SYSTEMS lose long term. Sadly they do. But do to luck....some systems  can win a lifetime for someone while the same systems lose for others.

If it wins keep going
If it loses get out asap

So yes each and every system/method/strategy posted on all forums LOSE! (Unless.....you know vb..accuracy....,,)

:thumbsup:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 07, 06:39 AM 2018
ALL SYSTEMS lose long term. Sadly they do. But do to luck....some systems  can win a lifetime for someone while the same systems lose for others.

If it wins keep going
If it loses get out asap

So yes each and every system/method/strategy posted on all forums LOSE! (Unless.....you know vb..accuracy....,,)

:thumbsup:

how do you know that all systems lose long term?
did you test all systems ? also the ones coming from Mars ?

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 07, 06:46 AM 2018
how do you know that all systems lose long term?
did you test all systems ? also the ones coming from Mars ?

Coz they teached math at my school  :thumbsup:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 07, 06:48 AM 2018
Coz they teached math at my school  :thumbsup:

Didn't the math teacher tell you that if you increase accuracy of your bets, you will always be ahead?

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 07, 06:50 AM 2018
Didn't the math teacher tell you that if you increase accuracy of your bets, you will always be ahead?

He did. He also teached me to read whats writen between (....)  :girl_to:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 07, 06:57 AM 2018
He did. He also teached me to read whats writen between (....)  :girl_to:

Best reply i saw on this Forum for a very long time.  :thumbsup:

I see, you had a retarded / classic math teacher,  your family had to send you to a better school where math teachers are only PHD holders
-:)

Quote from: denzie on Apr 07, 06:39 AM 2018
ALL SYSTEMS lose long term. Sadly they do. But do to luck....some systems  can win a lifetime for someone while the same systems lose for others.

If it wins keep going
If it loses get out asap

So yes each and every system/method/strategy posted on all forums LOSE!(Unless.....you know vb ADVANTAGE PLAY. accuracy....,,)

:thumbsup:

Agree, made a correction there. :)

Systems forum is for hobbyist gamblers to chit chat about their LUCK win loss experience.

Quote from: cht on Apr 07, 07:53 AM 2018

Systems forum is for hobbyist gamblers to chit chat about their LUCK win loss experience.

And for people dreaming about the easy life. If only it was that simple to make money....

Anyway keep your eyes at the Wheel and ball  :thumbsup:

You know something stupid like playing half of the Wheel isnt that hard. Use the racetrack. If you just choose whatever side you will lose at the HE. But with that tiny bit of extra info...for example a busy table with consistent dealer is already enough to overcome the HE.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: cht on Apr 07, 07:53 AM 2018

ALL SYSTEMS lose long term. Sadly they do. But do to luck....some systems  can win a lifetime for someone while the same systems lose for others.

If it wins keep going
If it loses get out asap

So yes each and every system/method/strategy posted on all forums LOSE!(Unless.....you know vb ADVANTAGE PLAY. accuracy....,,)

:thumbsup:

Agree, made a correction there. :)

Systems forum is for hobbyist gamblers to chit chat about their LUCK win loss experience.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Lucky7red:

You are here to laugh, aren't you?
winning money from roulette isn't on your priority list..

cheers Mate :-)

Quote from: ZERO on Apr 07, 03:44 AM 2018
(link:://pichost.org/images/2018/04/07/1.md.jpg) (link:://pichost.org/image/s2YVU)

Yes, all experienced people with knowledge to share..... just cant do it themselves. Great logic.

 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Correct. Youre a moron especially if you dont understand simple logic and clear test results.

For maestro

Fyi that's  a standard dev graph

QuoteCorrect. Youre a moron especially if you dont understand simple logic and clear test results.

exactly.... :xd: :xd: :xd: :xd:

QuoteFyi that's  a standard dev graph

thanks

Quote from: The General on Apr 07, 07:17 PM 2018
For maestro

That is a graph of a biased wheel?

Looks a lot like regular system graphs

Ups and downs

Not impressed at all

(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/iJxHzcuNcCJXi/giphy.gif)

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 07, 08:20 PM 2018
That is a graph of a biased wheel?

Looks a lot like regular system graphs

Ups and downs

Not impressed at all

(link:s://dacalu.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/my-brain-is-full.jpg)

Ghost,

Ermmm....would you rather every number on that wheel was a winner?

By the way you know that's 7019 spins right?

Sooo...which numbers would you bet??

7019 spins? Ha. That’s it?!

This is meaningless.

The true theater of the absurd.

Ghost,

A quick fyi...on a biased wheel not every number can be a winner.  LOL!!!

Insignificant number of spins

A closet systems player

NEXT

I’m convinced. The General is as crazy as falkor

The flat earth brigade.

Actually especially when looking at sector bias, 7000 is enough spins to be statistically relevant.

It is not guaranteed bias. It never is 100% guaranteed. Its about likely edge.

But add visual or sound confirmation then it gets pretty darn solid, even with much fewer spins.

Number Hits                Frequency          Standard Deviation

37      183   0   183   38.35519126   -0.127548358
27      180   0   180   38.99444444   -0.351248556
10      179   0   179   39.2122905   -0.425815289
25      203   0   203   34.57635468   1.363786294
29      157   0   157   44.70700637   -2.066283406
12      192   0   192   36.55729167   0.543552235
8      167   0   167   42.02994012   -1.32061608
19      199   0   199   35.27135678   1.065519363
31      237   0   237   29.61603376   3.899055202
18      209   0   209   33.58373206   1.811186689
6      163   0   163   43.06134969   -1.61888301
21      180   0   180   38.99444444   -0.351248556
33      191   0   191   36.7486911   0.468985502
16      220   0   220   31.90454545   2.631420748
4      221   0   221   31.760181   2.70598748
23      140   0   140   50.13571429   -3.33391786
35      154   0   154   45.57792208   -2.289983604
14      156   0   156   44.99358974   -2.140850139
2      170   0   170   41.28823529   -1.096915882
0      205   0   205   34.23902439   1.512919759
28      197   0   197   35.62944162   0.916385898
9      187   0   187   37.53475936   0.170718572
26      197   0   197   35.62944162   0.916385898
30      179   0   179   39.2122905   -0.425815289
11      178   0   178   39.43258427   -0.500382021
7      141   0   141   49.78014184   -3.259351128
20      253   0   253   27.743083   5.092122923
32      192   0   192   36.55729167   0.543552235
17      177   0   177   39.65536723   -0.574948754
5      161   0   161   43.59627329   -1.768016476
22      159   0   159   44.14465409   -1.917149941
34      190   0   190   36.94210526   0.39441877
15      153   0   153   45.87581699   -2.364550336
3      164   0   164   42.79878049   -1.544316278
24      240   0   240   29.24583333   4.1227554
36      187   0   187   37.53475936   0.170718572
13      166   0   166   42.28313253   -1.395182813
1      192   0   192   36.55729167   0.543552235
                  
Total      7019   0   7019      
                  
High      253   0   253      5.092122923
Low      140   0   140      -3.33391786
                  
Chance of                  
random (1/x)      1.21202E+13      1.21202E+13      
Chi square      139.5037755      139.5037755      
                  
Average      184.7105263   0   184.7105263      
Break even      194.9722222   0   194.9722222      
                  
80% hi conf.      218.2375418   0   218.2375418      
95% hi conf.      224.9429449   0   224.9429449      
80% low conf.      151.1835108   0   151.1835108      
95% low conf.      144.4781077   0   144.4781077      
                  
Best ratio      27.743083      27.743083      
Worst ratio      50.13571429      50.13571429   


A chi square of 139.5 isn't significant at 7000 spins huh??  LOL!!! 
The chance of randomness is    1.21202E+13     That's the same as 1 in  12,120,000,000,000

When a wheel is as strongly biased as this one you don't need more spins.  I knew this one was biased on sight based on the defects that I saw. 

Ghost,

I know you don't know what any of this means, and I know you're disappointed that all of the numbers can't be winners.

Maestro,

Pic your numbers.  Let's see how you do.  I have several thousand more spins from this wheel, including the live number stream. 

QuotePic your numbers.  Let's see how you do.  I have several thousand more spins from this wheel, including the live number stream.

pick my numbers ...???
here are they as random as it gets :xd: :xd: :xd:

Quote from: The General on Apr 08, 05:04 AM 2018
Number Hits                Frequency          Standard Deviation

37      183   0   183   38.35519126   -0.127548358
27      180   0   180   38.99444444   -0.351248556
10      179   0   179   39.2122905   -0.425815289
25      203   0   203   34.57635468   1.363786294
29      157   0   157   44.70700637   -2.066283406
12      192   0   192   36.55729167   0.543552235
8      167   0   167   42.02994012   -1.32061608
19      199   0   199   35.27135678   1.065519363
31      237   0   237   29.61603376   3.899055202
18      209   0   209   33.58373206   1.811186689
6      163   0   163   43.06134969   -1.61888301
21      180   0   180   38.99444444   -0.351248556
33      191   0   191   36.7486911   0.468985502
16      220   0   220   31.90454545   2.631420748
4      221   0   221   31.760181   2.70598748
23      140   0   140   50.13571429   -3.33391786
35      154   0   154   45.57792208   -2.289983604
14      156   0   156   44.99358974   -2.140850139
2      170   0   170   41.28823529   -1.096915882
0      205   0   205   34.23902439   1.512919759
28      197   0   197   35.62944162   0.916385898
9      187   0   187   37.53475936   0.170718572
26      197   0   197   35.62944162   0.916385898
30      179   0   179   39.2122905   -0.425815289
11      178   0   178   39.43258427   -0.500382021
7      141   0   141   49.78014184   -3.259351128
20      253   0   253   27.743083   5.092122923
32      192   0   192   36.55729167   0.543552235
17      177   0   177   39.65536723   -0.574948754
5      161   0   161   43.59627329   -1.768016476
22      159   0   159   44.14465409   -1.917149941
34      190   0   190   36.94210526   0.39441877
15      153   0   153   45.87581699   -2.364550336
3      164   0   164   42.79878049   -1.544316278
24      240   0   240   29.24583333   4.1227554
36      187   0   187   37.53475936   0.170718572
13      166   0   166   42.28313253   -1.395182813
1      192   0   192   36.55729167   0.543552235
                  

Just interested.....
20 is at SD 5 which isnt normal. Is that the bias?
If so....why are the neighbours quite normal....or am I miles out

Quote from: Turner on Apr 08, 07:47 AM 2018
Just interested.....
20 is at SD 5 which isnt normal. Is that the bias?
If so....why are the neighbours quite normal....or am I miles out

31,20,16,24 shows higher sd indicating bias sector.

Problem with this method is after you spend a lot of time to collect 8000 spins data(manual table spins at 3-4mins average) to determine the bias sector, the casino do their regular calibration maintenance at 4-5am. This hot sector disappears. Then you go on another spins data collection again and so on......that requires you to live in the casino and that you operate as a team round the clock. You can't rely on the history board everyone knows they are fake.......life is hard.:(

CHT, thats the polite way
This the way to say it LOAD OF BOLLOX

Chances are the casinos receive detailed reports on their wheels. There are companies that maintain the wheels and provide data

In 2018 a biased wheel would be fixed or swapped out. The casino knows all.

If in fact General is actually playing, his wins are due to luck

No proof. Empty words.

Maybe he uses a negative progression.

Absurd

(link:s://:.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif)

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 11:37 AM 2018
(link:s://:.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif)

Like it RG, Like it, the quote in white chicks, BACK AT YA

Personally, and only from an educated guess, I cant see the Blackjack team being more savvy than the Roulette team
BJ killed card counting with CSM so Roulette team must know wnen their wheels are biased and have counter measures.
Searching for a biased wheel is like the search for the holy grail.....pun intended

Your on form Turner,pitty your team weren't
Irons, irons
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/08/temp_178077.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sTlBS)

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 08, 01:14 PM 2018
Your on form Turner,pitty your team weren't
Irons, irons
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/08/temp_178077.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sTlBS)

Looks like we are going to have to just settle for the league and league cup
Once upon a time the only thing we had was beating the shyte.

QuoteTurner wrote-Just interested.....
20 is at SD 5 which isnt normal. Is that the bias?
If so....why are the neighbours quite normal....or am I miles out

Contrary to popular believe, biased wheels can produce single numbers biases or section biases.
This wheel had a series of loose frets and some loose pocket bottom inserts. 

QuoteProblem with this method is after you spend a lot of time to collect 8000 spins data(manual table spins at 3-4mins average) to determine the bias sector, the casino do their regular calibration maintenance at 4-5am. This hot sector disappears. Then you go on another spins data collection again and so on......that requires you to live in the casino and that you operate as a team round the clock. You can't rely on the history board everyone knows they are fake.......life is hard.:(

No, the readerboard on this wheel was 100% accurate. 
Why on earth would you think that you have to track a biased wheel around the clock???  Again, contrary to popular believe we tracked it off and on over several days.

The wheel persisted for four years in the casino.  It was located in Las Vegas.  Yes, it was moved around periodically, but that was to our benefit.  Tracking the marks...wood grain etc... is very easy so finding the wheel was simple.  In this particular casino 1/3 of the wheels were biased at the time.  Most of the biased wheels are the results of sloppy assembly.

Casinos don't replace wheels just because they're bias.  That's absurd.  They merely move them around. Besides, I could tell most of the people here that a wheel is biased, but most would not be able to beat it.  (And one naive person said they were disappointed because not all of the numbers on the wheel were winners.ROFLOL!!! ::))    The same is true in the casino.  Biased wheels usually make just as much as the other wheels, so why replace them if the table is still winning?


Who would like to take a shot at betting it?  You've only seen half of the data.  So place your bets.

Quote from: The General on Apr 08, 03:09 PM 2018
  (And one naive person said they were disappointed because not all of the numbers on the wheel were winners.ROFLOL!!! ::))   

I was trolling you



Don’t tell me 7000 spins shows a bias. Those results could have been from a non biased wheel

If you are betting the numbers that show up hot, then congratufuckinglations, your a system player.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 03:17 PM 2018
I was trolling you



Don’t tell me 7000 spins shows a bias. Those results could have been from a non biased wheel

If you are betting the numbers that show up hot, then congratufuckinglations, your a system player

(link:://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AZNV9I1nBF4/UB6SvKtIR6I/AAAAAAAAAWY/fk8_oWh9JCI/s1600/midvale+school+for+the+gifted.jpg)

Ghost,

Give it up!  Try slots instead.

Regarding Turbo's system and his comment that, "Random beats random" and "winning because the wheel is random."

The comments are of course, quite absurd.  In reality people playing the system really need the wheel to be as non random as possible.  What everyone really needs is what's called a very high chi square result for the test sample in order for the system to perform well. Think of the chi square as being a fitness test for the randomness of the wheel.  The higher the value of the chi, the better the system is likely to perform.  The lower the value, the more likely the system is to tank.  Ideally, you'd want a very biased wheel.

Here's more on the chi square test from Wiki...  link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi-squared_test

A chi-squared test, also written as χ2 test, is any statistical hypothesis test where the sampling distribution of the test statistic is a chi-squared distribution when the null hypothesis is true. Without other qualification, 'chi-squared test' often is used as short for Pearson's chi-squared test. The chi-squared test is used to determine whether there is a significant difference between the expected frequencies and the observed frequencies in one or more categories.

In the standard applications of the test, the observations are classified into mutually exclusive classes, and there is some theory, or say null hypothesis, which gives the probability that any observation falls into the corresponding class. The purpose of the test is to evaluate how likely, the observations that are made would be, assuming the null hypothesis is true.

Chi-squared tests are often constructed from a sum of squared errors, or through the sample variance. Test statistics that follow a chi-squared distribution arise from an assumption of independent normally distributed data, which is valid in many cases due to the central limit theorem. A chi-squared test can be used to attempt rejection of the null hypothesis that the data are independent.

Also considered a chi-squared test is a test in which this is asymptotically true, meaning that the sampling distribution (if the null hypothesis is true) can be made to approximate a chi-squared distribution as closely as desired by making the sample size large enough.

Quote from: The General on Apr 08, 03:09 PM 2018Besides, I could tell most of the people here that a wheel is biased, but most would not be able to beat it.

Yeah - who could figure out to play the hot numbers ? That's complicated.
Oh wait - you're doing the same thing as I am only you can only do it on a defective
wheel, where as I can do it on any wheel, any rng.
(and always win)

Quote from: The General on Apr 09, 04:08 AM 2018Regarding Turbo's system and his comment that, "Random beats random" and "winning because the wheel is random."
The comments are of course, quite absurd.

You must mean my results in testing, live casino play, online test sites, online play sites, actual math - those results are all absurd - all absurd. Oh wait, that's "misleading" again I guess. None of my results matter (lol) - play money, not enough spins, rigged, absurdity....always something to plug in to insult what you don't understand.
I don't need abnormal chi-square results to win either, and no bias wheel, no computer - it's amazing. But hey, that's me.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 09, 06:53 AM 2018
You must mean my results in testing, live casino play, online test sites, online play sites, actual math - those results are all absurd - all absurd. Oh wait, that's "misleading" again I guess. None of my results matter (lol) - play money, not enough spins, rigged, absurdity....always something to plug in to insult what you don't understand.
I don't need abnormal chi-square results to win either, and no bias wheel, no computer - it's amazing. But hey, that's me.

Players who are winners either stay silent or show proof of their profits as i've recently did.
unless that it's only Bla Bla

Turbo, I am pretty certain that the general and Steve are wrong about your method

First off, this is hot numbers in cycles which is a guarantee 99% of the time. So if it works then having them say “it doesn’t work” is empty words

Secondly, you can always tell when a method has merit when it’s attacked on all fronts.

The amount of threads and comments in regards to it from Steve and general speaks volumes

In the penny stock world, you know when a stock has potential when the bashers come out on the forums. Same here

I have no reason to doubt TG and this is an obvious attack from guys who claim AP but never provide proof.

The belittling in the forum of “sorry you don’t understand elementary math” is just a way to make you look stupid.

You have no safe haven with methods anymore so better off not sharing

Lastly, you are only playing a few numbers. That’s respectable. So fook them.

Especially condescending general. He has nothing to offer anyone but criticism. I think he’s full of shit. :)

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/09/temp_819986.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sT3Bf)

This is holy snail.  :lol:

You have apparently no idea what you are talking about...

When people will finally understand that roulette is beatable by increasing accuracy ... there is no other way !! Get it

Forget all shit with randomness ! I have nothing against turbo, but one can't tell a lie and keep believing it.

People always talk about accuracy this is not basketball you don't have control of the ivory ball.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 09, 06:53 AM 2018
actual math

Where?  When?  Steve and I both have asked you repeatedly to demonstrate how the probability is affected by playing repeaters and what you feel the edge is playing them.   

Quote from: The General on Apr 09, 03:08 PM 2018
Steve and I both have asked you repeatedly

Oh look everyone, this is the part where the general BROWN noses Steve

How predictable. So he can come back and harass people again

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 03:17 PM 2018
congratufuckinglations

Nice word !
Thx for sharing

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018
Turbo, I am pretty certain that the general and Steve are wrong about your method

First off, this is hot numbers in cycles which is a guarantee 99% of the time. So if it works then having them say “it doesn’t work” is empty words

Secondly, you can always tell when a method has merit when it’s attacked on all fronts.

The amount of threads and comments in regards to it from Steve and general speaks volumes

In the penny stock world, you know when a stock has potential when the bashers come out on the forums. Same here

I have no reason to doubt TG and this is an obvious attack from guys who claim AP but never provide proof.

The belittling in the forum of “sorry you don’t understand elementary math” is just a way to make you look stupid.

You have no safe haven with methods anymore so better off not sharing

Lastly, you are only playing a few numbers. That’s respectable. So fook them.

Especially condescending general. He has nothing to offer anyone but criticism. I think he’s full of shit. :)

Ermmm Ghost,

I thought you said that you knew systems don't work though...

QuoteThe point is that most know the odds are not changed..so those that seek to prove what we already know is a waste of time

When people play and win win win and you tell them it "does not work" is a bit silly

Exploiting the fact that we have repeaters in every cycle sounds like a PRETTY DAMN good strategy to me

Haven’t found a flawed wheel lately I guess?

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 04:20 PM 2018
Exploiting the fact that we have repeaters in every cycle sounds like a PRETTY DAMN good strategy to me

Haven’t found a flawed wheel lately I guess?

A new fallacy as good as after two reds red is due.

Quote from: The General on Apr 09, 03:08 PM 2018Where?  When?  Steve and I both have asked you repeatedly to demonstrate how the probability is affected by playing repeaters and what you feel the edge is playing them.   

Why ?
Can't do it yourself I see.
You can both ask all you like but you can also do it for yourself and see exactly what I'm talking about.
Or you can keep saying that live play, simulations, rng, actuals, game sites, RX are ALL fixed and rigged - or I haven't played enough spins - you should stick with that, it's all you're capable of doing and surely don't understand random at all.
Now a wobbly wheel - THAT you know. It's always best to stick with what you know.

Turbo,

We've done the math, and it says that your system doesn't work.


(link:://cdn1.sciencefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/doctor-strange-cumberbatch-magic-powers.jpg)


How about demonstrating how 1+1=3 using your math magician skills for us.

Quote from: The General on Apr 09, 08:26 PM 2018
Turbo,

We've done the math, and it says that your system doesn't work.

that statement is opinion based

"doesn't work" is different for everyone

you are in no position to say what "works" for him

you will always say that everything does not work because of the math of the house edge

we get it. we know. its a dead horse. same thing for years. go away

I see now that you are brown nosing steve, you are back..

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 04:20 PM 2018Exploiting the fact that we have repeaters in every cycle sounds like a PRETTY DAMN good strategy to me

It "sounds" good, but when you do the testing you realise you are right sometimes, but wrong slightly more times. The difference leads you back to the expected 1 in 37 accuracy. Then you realize your whole elaborate approach of tracking repeaters does not at all increase accuracy of predictions. It doesn't change anything.

It can be a really short debate with some proper testing.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018First off, this is hot numbers in cycles which is a guarantee 99% of the time. So if it works then having them say “it doesn’t work” is empty words

Testing and providing software and explanations for everyone to do their own testing is what I provided. It is not empty words. The problem is people are not doing the testing. So they talk about how turbo's approaches sound credible. Just do the testing. Even another member provided source code for further testing, which again confirmed what caleb, myself and some others are saying.

RG, I understand you have a thing against caleb. Yes he can be a c*** sometimes, we all know that. You arent being overly nice to him either. But forget that and focus on the message, and do the testing.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018Secondly, you can always tell when a method has merit when it’s attacked on all fronts.

Attacked with what? Harsh words, or solid test results? By your logic, bullshit is not allowed to be attacked, or it will seem legitimate.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018In the penny stock world, you know when a stock has potential when the bashers come out on the forums. Same here

Thats a very different situation. There are always people speaking both positively and negatively about stocks. Its very different to the sum of a mathematical equation, which is not based on opinion. And regarding stocks, what if the bashing is justified?

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018I have no reason to doubt TG and this is an obvious attack from guys who claim AP but never provide proof.

If you did the testing you'd know what we're talking about. Why not do the testing, so you know what you're defending?

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018I have no reason to doubt TG and this is an obvious attack from guys who claim AP but never provide proof.

I know my own experience, and I agree with almost everything caleb says - he's likely to same towards what I say. That's because we both actually know what we're talking about. If knowledge is anything to judge someone by, then at least his knowledge is solid.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 08:19 AM 2018The belittling in the forum of “sorry you don’t understand elementary math” is just a way to make you look stupid.

And what if it is actually true? What if basic math is actually not being understood?

Quote from: Winner on Apr 09, 09:27 AM 2018People always talk about accuracy this is not basketball you don't have control of the ivory ball.

Actually there are many approaches that do predict spins with sufficient accuracy. The house edge is only small. You need only small accuracy to overcome it. It's really not that hard to achieve that on a wheel and ball. It's not rocket science. But it must be done the right way.

ok.

so you are saying playing repeaters or numbers that hit above expectation in a cycle cannot make you win?

but people are winning doing it?

im confused

Quote from: Steve on Apr 09, 09:00 PM 2018
Testing and providing software and explanations for everyone to do their own testing is what I provided. It is not empty words. The problem is people are not doing the testing. So they talk about how turbo's approaches sound credible. Just do the testing. Even another member provided source code for further testing, which again confirmed what caleb, myself and some others are saying.

RG, I understand you have a thing against caleb. Yes he can be a c*** sometimes, we all know that. You arent being overly nice to him either. But forget that and focus on the message, and do the testing.

Attacked with what? Harsh words, or solid test results? By your logic, bullshit is not allowed to be attacked, or it will seem legitimate.

Thats a very different situation. There are always people speaking both positively and negatively about stocks. Its very different to the sum of a mathematical equation, which is not based on opinion. And regarding stocks, what if the bashing is justified?

If you did the testing you'd know what we're talking about. Why not do the testing, so you know what you're defending?

I know my own experience, and I agree with almost everything caleb says - he's likely to same towards what I say. That's because we both actually know what we're talking about. If knowledge is anything to judge someone by, then at least his knowledge is solid.

And what if it is actually true? What if basic math is actually not being understood?

Actually there are many approaches that do predict spins with sufficient accuracy. The house edge is only small. You need only small accuracy to overcome it. It's really not that hard to achieve that on a wheel and ball. It's not rocket science. But it must be done the right way.

How about Steve and Turbo have a competion with each there own way for one month see who make more money and there would have to be a way to monitor the tru results .

steve wouldnt have a chance.........plus he would make all kinds of excuses.......my moneys on turbo

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 09:06 PM 2018so you are saying playing repeaters or numbers that hit above expectation in a cycle cannot make you win?

This is very important: When you say "hit above expectation", you are talking about the PAST. But what happens in the FUTURE from that point is still 1 in 37 accuracy. So tracking repeaters doesnt work. It changes nothing.

Quotebut people are winning doing it?

If you mean on RS, because it is not an accurate simulator. For starters, the betting limits are far too wide. The effect of this is players can win larger bankrolls. For example, the same system in a real casino might reach $10,000 before tanking. On RS, it may reach $300,000 before tanking. You can demonstrate this with a simple progression like the martingale. Also read the section link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy#the-illusion-of-a-winning-system

Quote from: Winner on Apr 09, 09:08 PM 2018How about Steve and Turbo have a competion with each there own way for one month see who make more money and there would have to be a way to monitor the tru results .

A month is far longer than needed, to see 1 in 15 hit rate (strong edge) vs 1 in 37 (no edge). But you know you dont need to computers to beat roulette. There are other ways to achieve a better than 1 in 37 hit rate.

It shouldnt be so scary or complicated. Stop looking at the betting table. Stop looking at trends that only exist in your head. Start looking at the WHEEL and CAUSE AND EFFECT -- WHY the ball lands where it does. WHAT is predictable.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 09, 09:15 PM 2018steve wouldnt have a chance.........plus he would make all kinds of excuses.......my moneys on turbo

Then you don't understand basic math. Or am I not allowed to call it as it is? You know turbo already said he couldnt compete with a computer. Hard to deny that when one gets a 125% edge and the other gets a -2.7% edge.

Besides you probably havent been around long enough to see the results of public challenges and demos I've done. But like many people, you shoot your mouth off not know anything.

the truth prevails

i believe turbo has the game beat without advantage play....and i hope to see him in atlantic city  8)

Quote from: Steve on Apr 09, 09:19 PM 2018
This is very important: When you say "hit above expectation", you are talking about the PAST. But what happens in the FUTURE from that point is still 1 in 37 accuracy. So tracking repeaters doesnt work. It changes nothing.

If you mean on RS, because it is not an accurate simulator. For starters, the betting limits are far too wide. The effect of this is players can win larger bankrolls. For example, the same system in a real casino might reach $10,000 before tanking. On RS, it may reach $300,000 before tanking. You can demonstrate this with a simple progression like the martingale. Also read the section link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy#the-illusion-of-a-winning-system

A month is far longer than needed, to see 1 in 15 hit rate (strong edge) vs 1 in 37 (no edge). But you know you dont need to computers to beat roulette. There are other ways to achieve a better than 1 in 37 hit rate.

It shouldnt be so scary or complicated. Stop looking at the betting table. Stop looking at trends that only exist in your head. Start looking at the WHEEL and CAUSE AND EFFECT -- WHY the ball lands where it does. WHAT is predictable.

Then you don't understand basic math. Or am I not allowed to call it as it is? You know turbo already said he couldnt compete with a computer. Hard to deny that when one gets a 125% edge and the other gets a -2.7% edge.

Besides you probably havent been around long enough to see the results of public challenges and demos I've done. But like many people, you shoot your mouth off not know anything.

10,000 or 300,000 before tanking??? really?! we reset WAY before that!

RG why do you believe that when the testing clearly shows the opposite?

Discount parx. There's no doubt player has the edge there as explained before. And RS, with so many wealthy people with fun money. Isnt that a red flag?

I'm suggesting do the testing and understand what you are supporting.

i guess repeating numbers beating the game in the short term really bothers the computer and AP guys

No RG, it doesnt bother me when people lose because they don't listen. My issue is when people are misled, and they lose because of it. I'm trying to help people.

Not everything is a conspiracy. Even if sales was my #1 priority, I dont think I'd feel threatened by a -2.7% edge with my 150% edge.

RG I can bet 1 or 2 numbers with computers no problem. But why do that when I could earn far more in less time if I bet more numbers?

Its not about bashing system players. It's about simple truth. Stop with the conspiracy theories.

Just do the testing. Proper testing. Then debate solved.

This is what I dont get....
Wait for your trigger (repeaters) then repeat the test many times to see if your trigger has given you a hit rate better than 1 in 37. Test lots to be sure. Still stuck at 1 in 37?... That means your method doesn't work. Simple, right? So why the struggle with a simple test?

Then when I say do LOTs of testing, I get the standard egghead response "oh I dont need to win over LOTS of spins, I only need short term winnings" meaning the person has no clue WHY more testing is better than less testing, or the very purpose of proper testing.

RG you at least know this. You can only show someone the door, but they need to walk through. Like most people, you dont want to walk through. You are resisting for some reason. The door in this case is simple testing to show repeaters cannot be used to change the 1 in 37 hit rate (-2.7 edge). Using repeaters is as accurate as random bets.

Again dont argue, just do the testing. Debate resolved.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 09, 09:37 PM 2018
This is what I dont get....
Wait for your trigger (repeaters) then repeat the test many times to see if your trigger has given you a hit rate better than 1 in 37. Test lots to be sure. Still stuck at 1 in 37?... That means your method doesn't work. Simple, right? So why the struggle with a simple test?

Then when I saw do LOTs of testing, I get the standard egghead response "oh I dont need to win over LOTS of spins, I only need short term winnings" meaning the person has no clue WHY more testing is better than less testing, or the very purpose of proper testing.

RG you at least know this. You can only show someone the door, but they need to walk through. Like most people, you dont want to walk through. You are resisting for some reason. The door in this case is simple testing to show repeaters cannot be used to change the 1 in 37 hit rate (-2.7 edge). Using repeaters is as accurate as random bets.

Again dont argue, just do the testing. Debate resolved.

because you are betting for something that you know is likely to occur...


also, what is the POINT of even testing a method when the math never changes......

you keep saying test. why? the math doesnt change

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 09:37 PM 2018because you are betting for something that you know is likely to occur...

It's basic statistics that some numbers are likely to eventually repeat. It's also basic statistics that there will be around the same amount of reds/blacks. Again it sounds like usable fact, but its not. You cannot look at the past and say it will influence the future, because it doesnt that way. The odds, moving forward in time, are still 1 in 37. That's what I keep trying to explain. And again, just test it. It's simple. Still 1 in 37. It doesn't take a guru to know this. Its simple testing.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 09:37 PM 2018also, what is the POINT of even testing a method when the math never changes......

The math CAN change, but only when you change the ODDS (increasing accuracy of predictions). The problem here is repeaters do NOT change accuracy of predictions.

The testing is to see if the bet selection method is changing the odds.

You cant change payouts. But you can change the odds, although only with valid methods.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 09, 09:00 PM 2018I know my own experience, and I agree with almost everything caleb says - he's likely to same towards what I say. That's because we both actually know what we're talking about. If knowledge is anything to judge someone by, then at least his knowledge is solid.

Thanks for the giggles.
It's kind of like how I don't believe in religion but someone will say God is real
because the bible says so.   
Wait, the bible was written by people..... oh wait, it's the Word of God lol
Makes me laugh every time, popped into my head when I read that You and "Caleb"
agree and back each other up (well, of course).
When someone tells you something that you agree with and you believe to be true - it's really easy to see that as verification of your own belief.
Turns out you "could" both be wrong and just keeping each other in a loop - agreeing with one another and backing up that you're wrong without even realizing it.
You know computers work - he knows bias works - there is NO WAY a guy with a stupid system could win long term !!
I know, I know - tons of math experts have said roulette can't be beaten (not true really)
and even Einstein said it's impossible !! (proven now that he ever said that)... and there's the math where surely everyone has looked at every possibility and even those people have said it's impossible... hmm. really.
I posted a legit video from the 60's showing completely random outcomes being friggin amazingly predictable - but blah, that's all nonsense !!  Random can't be predictable can it ??
Sort of like me going into church and trying to tell people "God" isn't real - I won't win that one and I won't win against you two. The whole church will run me out of the building.
(Because of course God is real.... to them.....and they all back each other up - that's how cults are so successful).
So it's hopeless for me to try to convince you, it's all heresy, misleading and blasphemy for me to show results that go against your beliefs - and then you can turn to one another and back each other up (both being wrong) with "Rigged", "unfair results", "not realistic". You name it. Lots of people can show me why they think God is real too... there's "proof" everywhere - just look !!  Wrong... but that's hopeless to go against.
'eh I tried.

As for a competition - waste of time again.
Anyone can sign up at Parx (you believe it's rigged for people to win what with all the bonus log in points and whatnot.....) so sign up there and play a few minutes per day.
R. Simulator is free to use - the rng is just fine.. but that's not going to be realistic either I know. Wasn't there a challenge somewhere - oh wait, that was 10 million spins for 5 runs each or something to win $50.00 prize money ? lol.
My results will speak for my ability, it's that simple. Then it's just "not enough spins" you can both rely on to explain it away and still not budge from your beliefs. Fair enough.... it will never be "enough spins".

Whats also particularly frustrating is the whole professional gambling community knows all what I'm saying. This is ridiculously old news. You ask any gaming professional and they just know all this and take the knowledge for granted. but come to a gambling forum, and most people are oblivious to what should be common knowledge.

Not only that, when you try to explain basic concepts to everyone, they accuse you of being involved in a conspiracy to censor the HG.

Why the resistance to logic? Why not testing properly? This is really simple crap that everyone should be well past by now, so they can focus on new approaches that havent been tried a gazillion times before.

Turbo that was again a whole lot of dribble. The only math we see invalidates your claims, which are clumsy and demonstrate poor understanding of simple concepts.

Regarding the old video, again that's showing basic statistics you arent understanding. Nothing in the video can be used to changed odds.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 09, 09:49 PM 2018
this proves turbo is correct

caleb and steve just are not on this wave length

At about 2:10 in the video, he explains he can predict what happens over a large amount of time. but he stil cant predict exactly when the next click will occur.

In terms of roulette, this is: over thousands of spins, you know there will be around equal reds/blacks.  But you still cant use that knowledge to know exactly which number will spin next. So you are stuck at 1 in 37.

RG, dont be so gullible to believe someone when they publish a scientific sounding video. If you actually understand the video, you'll understand the above, and that again it supports the fact repeaters cant change the odds. Turbo misunderstood the video too.

Hey Ghost -

You can set your watch to that hundredths column clicking away lol
But random isn't predictable... not one bit.
'eh bed time for me, my brain hurts - I'm prob giving off more frustration radiation than that isotope lol

Turbo I'd like for once for you to provide a valid argument for your theory. Literally I don't think there has been even one. Just misconceptions and misunderstandings. And it has all been debunked already. All you give is hot air. You never confront results of simple tests and logic.

Steve, will you take on a head to head challenge with TG on parx or roulettesimulator ?

Just a YES or NO answer.

We don't want a long speech. Save it.
If you do make the speech, it's irrelevant and ignored.

YES or NO.

IF you don't provide a simple response, we have to take it as NO.

Your move.

YES
CHT, if someone provides me with a bot to play RS automatically, and if the RS parameters arent changed (table limits), I accept the challenge. That way I dont need to sit there hour after hour clicking to an inevitable conclusion, which is its only a matter of time to beat anyone who plays at RS.

Quote from: cht on Apr 09, 10:46 PM 2018
Steve, will you take on a head to head challenge with TG on parx or roulettesimulator ?

Just a YES or NO answer.

We don't want a long speech. Save it.
If you do make the speech, it's irrelevant and ignored.

YES or NO.

IF you don't provide a simple response, we have to take it as NO.

Your move.

Parx gives you bonus free money in the free play mode just for signing on!   ::)

I played three spins, but my bankroll keeps growing just by signing on.  LOL!!!

Quote from: The General on Apr 09, 11:03 PM 2018
Parx gives you bonus free money in the free play mode just for signing on!   ::)

I played three spins, but my bankroll keeps growing just by signing on.  LOL!!!

I could not pose you this similar challenge because you play wobbly wheels.

Steve has ACCEPTED a head to head challenge with TG.

Read his complete response here.

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20147.msg196248#msg196248

Quote from: The General on Apr 09, 11:03 PM 2018
Parx gives you bonus free money in the free play mode just for signing on!   ::)

I played three spins, but my bankroll keeps growing just by signing on.  LOL!!!

I play vb with no computer as well.  I also frequent Turbo's part of the country.  I would be willing to play on a live game. 

Ok so let's proceed with that challenge CHT. Who here has a betting bot we can use? Basically the system will take advantage of broad table limits. It's only a matter of time to achieve higher bankrolls than the current top rankers.

This is because with unrealistically broad table limits, you can use long progressions and overcome losing streaks. You cant do that with realistic table limits, which is why casinos use proper table limits. Unfortunately CHT doesnt understand this so I'm happy to demonstrate it to him.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 09, 11:42 PM 2018
Ok so let's proceed with that challenge CHT. Who here has a betting bot we can use? Basically the system will take advantage of broad table limits. It's only a matter of time to achieve higher bankrolls than the current top rankers.

This is because with unrealistically broad table limits, you can use long progressions and overcome losing streaks. You cant do that with realistic table limits, which is why casinos use proper table limits. Unfortunately CHT doesnt understand this so I'm happy to demonstrate it to him.

Turbo won't accept that in a million years.  He would probably only be willing to play the free game modes that he already knows how to exploit. ::)

His system is clear, it relies on a garrish up as you lose progression to make up for losses.  If it were flat bet the losses would quickly show.

To date, has anyone had success flat betting the system?

Quote from: The General on Apr 10, 12:06 AM 2018To date, has anyone had success flat betting the system?

No. Turbo has specifically stated he uses "aggressive progression". But I'm pretty sure he said he doesn't need to change the odds, and doesnt change the odds, but now he changes the odds. It's hard to keep up. It keeps changing.

So maybe if people have tried with flat betting, they havent succeeded because they're missing the secret sauce.

There is no winning strategy without the use of progression.

Imho

With progression you can get lucky and win big, or be unlucky and lose big.

Typically, it sustains winnings for some time........ and then it dumps your bankroll, and you're back at square 1 or worse.

If you do careful testing, you'll find if a system doesnt win with flat betting, it will eventually lose with progression too.

Its all explained at :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ in clearest terms I could think of.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 09, 05:52 PM 2018
Why ?
Can't do it yourself I see.
You can both ask all you like but you can also do it for yourself and see exactly what I'm talking about.
Or you can keep saying that live play, simulations, rng, actuals, game sites, RX are ALL fixed and rigged - or I haven't played enough spins - you should stick with that, it's all you're capable of doing and surely don't understand random at all.
Now a wobbly wheel - THAT you know. It's always best to stick with what you know.

TurboGenius, will you accept a head to head challenge with steve on roulettesimulator ?

Cht,

Why don't you play it for him?

You know the system, right?

Cht, he is already trying to rank #1. He doesn't need to agree. But he is being beaten by people with aggressive progression and short term play. Isnt that a clue???

Quote from: Steve on Apr 10, 01:15 AM 2018
Cht, he is already trying to rank #1. He doesn't need to agree. But he is being beaten by people with aggressive progression and short term play. Isnt that a clue???

There are several people that could play it if Turbo decides not to do it.

CHT could definitely play it.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 10, 12:24 AM 2018
With progression you can get lucky and win big, or be unlucky and lose big.

Typically, it sustains winnings for some time........ and then it dumps your bankroll, and you're back at square 1 or worse.

If you do careful testing, you'll find if a system doesnt win with flat betting, it will eventually lose with progression too.

Its all explained at :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ in clearest terms I could think of.

There is no hg then if this is a true  :( to be serious only one tiny thing here is not true everything else you are right. :)

What part is not true in your view?

Also i didn't say the hg doesn't exist. Just that its not well tested repeaters and hot numbers

Hey Steve

When do you think a system qualifies for progression ?

Quote from: Steve on Apr 10, 05:23 AM 2018
What part is not true in your view?


If you do careful testing, you'll find if a system doesnt win with flat betting

hi steve..........for one you dont  know me.......so dont say you do ......all i know is youve been talking up a storm and for sure you have been around a long time and for sure you still are not winning.......or you wouldnt be here still looking.........and you havent shown any proof of any success.......have a nice day and keep on tryin

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 10, 07:53 AM 2018
hi steve..........for one you dont  know me.......so dont say you do ......all i know is youve been talking up a storm and for sure you have been around a long time and for sure you still are not winning.......or you wouldnt be here still looking.........and you havent shown any proof of any success.......have a nice day and keep on tryin

You are too strong to put Steve under attack!

of course Steve still looking around, don't you see him always logged in (hidden), I am sure though that he has made enough money selling his computer than winning on roulette.

You traitor -:)

QuoteThere is no winning strategy without the use of progression.

@andre whatever....how the fuck do you know

Wow, I went to sleep last night and all hell broke loose lol.
Well, at least the conversation is happening and moving forward.
People can learn regardless of what "side" they are on, so it's a plus.

QuoteWow, I went to sleep last night

you sleep too much Turbo... :twisted: :twisted:
you should know is hard work to teach caveman to open e mail... :xd: :xd: :xd:

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/10/temp_409770.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sTzMV)

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 10, 07:53 AM 2018for one you dont  know me

I do know you. You asked me to prove my claims, I did, then you had few words and now have a problem with me.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 10, 07:53 AM 2018all i know is youve been talking up a storm

as I do when I see people are full of shit

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 10, 07:53 AM 2018for sure you still are not winning.......or you wouldnt be here still looking

Unless you have better than 150% edge, I'm not looking.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 10, 07:53 AM 2018and you havent shown any proof of any success

Actually I'm working on a martingale variant to apply when I figure the trot. It's almost done. I'll publish a 37 spin chart from RS as proof.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 10, 07:53 AM 2018have a nice day and keep on tryin

Thanks. I'll keep the faith.

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 10, 12:28 PM 2018
You are too strong to put Steve under attack!

of course Steve still looking around, don't you see him always logged in (hidden), I am sure though that he has made enough money selling his computer than winning on roulette.

You traitor -:)

1. Newsflash: This is my forum. I visit frequently.

2. I do alright without selling anything. And roulette may be a focus but actually its not my primary income.

As far as a competition goes, I have to agree with Steve now that I tried it out -
R Sim. site's table limits are certainly exploitable.
"If I had only known that before lol".
A person could bet 1.00 on every 2:1 bet and remove the winners, double the losing bets and keep going until they all won and then start over.
You'd only have a problem if the initial 3k got burned through quickly, but other than that you could surely use a bot or manually to keep a chart going north :(
I actually played using my system and other ones that work - which in reality I guess doesn't mean much because someone could just do what I said above and make it (eventually) to the top like Steve said.
Parx is much better - regardless of log-in bonus (that doesn't count towards the leader board....) it would still be a even competition where both players
would have the exact same advantage and disadvantage - there's no "reset"
or ways to cheat and the table limits are at least more accurate as well.
But anyway - a competition is probably useless, it wouldn't convince anyone against what I'm saying that I'm right. I've already shown my Parx and R.Sim results
so if anyone could do that - good for them (is exactly what I'd say).

Thanks for your response TG.

Now we know steve propose that your performance graph is achieved by exploiting the unlimited table limit on RS by applying martingale progression until a win.

If that's what steve plans to play martingale progression until win with autobot, then this challenge is rendered meaningless.

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 10, 06:15 AM 2018
Hey Steve
When do you think a system qualifies for progression ?

Any system can use progression. It's just that if you aren't changing the odds, you are stuck with 1 in 37. Then your system is nothing more than random bet selection with a variety of different bet amounts on different spins.

For example, your progression may be:

Bet 1 unit on red, lose
Bet 2 units on red, lose
Bet 4 units on red, win

You think it's part of a system, and you win because red was due. But in fact all you've done is played 3 spins, with bets of 1,2 and 4 units. The odds are the same on each spin.

It's the equivalent of 3 players on completely different or the same wheel:

Player 1 bets 1 unit on red
Player 2 bets 2 units on red
Player 3 bets 4 units on red

So what good is progression? If your system doesn't change the odds.... not much really. All you're doing is changing the size of the bet. You could be lucky and win big, or be unlucky and lose big. The chances are your losses will slightly outweigh the winnings -- and that's the house edge.

The only times progression should be used:

1. When your system doesn't work but you are taking the gamble that progression will be profitable over whatever spins you play. It's risky, but either way it's gambling.

2. When you have a good positive edge, and know increasing the bet size is statistically likely to increase your profits. With larger bets you risk more, but you have the edge so the odds are in your favor.

Also about steve proposal that the log-in bonus contribute to your large growing balance on the leader board.

It can be factually established if the log-in bonus contributes towards the balance for ranking on the leader board.

I don't know.

Can anyone who uses parx post a factual confirmation about this ?

Note - I thank both steve and TG for their response.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 10, 10:36 PM 2018A person could bet 1.00 on every 2:1 bet and remove the winners, double the losing bets and keep going until they all won and then start over. You'd only have a problem if the initial 3k got burned through quickly, but other than that you could surely use a bot or manually to keep a chart going north

So here it is. You are finally saying yourself RS is NOT a good place to compare systems.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 10, 10:36 PM 2018Parx is much better - regardless of log-in bonus (that doesn't count towards the leader board....)

Here we go again. The bonus doesn't count, but your winnings from the bonuses do count. I've explained it in detail before. You'd have to be thick to review all the proof then say "parx is not rigged".

It's incorrect to say players have the same advantage, because not everyone logs in every day to get the increasing bonus, which you only get with consecutive days of login.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 10, 10:36 PM 2018But anyway - a competition is probably useless, it wouldn't convince anyone against what I'm saying that I'm right.

But you've been touting RS as proof of your claims. You've been bragging about your high rank. And I've said all along it wouldn't be difficult to rank at the top. It has nothing to do with your bet selection (repeaters). It might be poor quality RNG, but an obvious and likely contributor is ridiculously unrealistic table limits. And they make it possible to profit and rank high with random bets and progression betting.

I accepted the challenge to prove this point. Now you are saying anyone can do it with progression. Now you are agreeing with me about RS.

As for Parx, it has all been said before. You'd have to be blind or with very poor understanding of math to not know without a doubt Parx is rigged, and makes it possible for a player to perpetually increase their bankroll and "winnings". Again I explained it all before.

Now as for the challenge, there isn't much point as you just said anyone can achieve a top rank. So we're left at the point, why bother testing there and bragging about your rank?

The one fair and realistic simulator is MPR, and both of your accounts have expected win rates, which are clear loss. I'm guessing that's why you're not proving your system there, or any proper simulator.

Quote from: cht on Apr 10, 11:07 PM 2018It can be factually established if the log-in bonus contributes towards the balance for ranking on the leader board. I don't know. Can anyone who uses parx post a factual confirmation about this ?

It doesnt appear to contribute. I'm not talking about the login bonus. I'm talking about the winnings with the login and other bonuses.

At the end Turbo, you've been touting your system as one that NEVER LOSES. And to prove that to everyone, you spend a lot of time on Parx and RS.

And I've provided very clear information why both of these options are a very bad and unrealistic way to test a system.

So since you are interested in proving your system NEVER LOSES AND IS THE HG, why are you using rigged and unrealistic simulators?

Quote from: Steve on Apr 10, 11:19 PM 2018As for Parx, it has all been said before. You'd have to be blind or with very poor understanding of math to not know without a doubt Parx is rigged, and makes it possible for a player to perpetually increase their bankroll and "winnings". Again I explained it all before.

And like I said - Parx is completely fair.
Any bonus doesn't count towards the leaderboard rankings - so if you accept the challenge - play there.
It resets every week, you could surely do the same or better than I did - but you won't.
At R. SIm I never played insane progressions or exploited that in order to rank - my charts clearly show that. There's no massive spike that would mean a giant progression beyond the typical table limits were used.
I assume your results would show that though.
My chart since January has been a constant uphill climb - I don't see anything close to that from anyone else regardless of their position.
But yes, waste of time as far as a competition.
If you want to do it, use Parx - it's so amazingly rigged in your opinion, think how easy it would be. I'm positive you won't though because in reality, it's not rigged and you won't have a loophole to use like R. Sim seems to have.
But anyway, waste of time.

come on steve there you go again bla bla bla .........you against turbo on prax ......rigged or not ....BOTH WILL BE TREATED THE SAME....... lets see who makes more.......quit your babying put your big boy pants on and do this thing

hey steve do you think you could show a better graph on prax then turbo.......do you think you would have a constant uphill climb as long as turbo ......i say put up or shut up......

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 11, 07:42 AM 2018
hey steve do you think you could show a better graph on prax then turbo.......do you think you would have a constant uphill climb as long as turbo ......i say put up or shut up......

Right on the money !

Rigged or not.....show us Steve. Show you can beat him. About RS...play and we can see your graph too....its not gonna look like TG's....


Parx....you get the same bonus as TG. What ? You dont have time to log in every day? Well you can here so you can there as well....


Now enough talk......prove your awesome skills  :lol:

THATA BOY DENZIE ........NOW WHAT STEVE SOMEMORE VERBAL DIAHREA

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 06:28 AM 2018
And like I said - Parx is completely fair.
Any bonus doesn't count towards the leaderboard rankings - so if you accept the challenge - play there.
It resets every week, you could surely do the same or better than I did - but you won't.
At R. SIm I never played insane progressions or exploited that in order to rank - my charts clearly show that. There's no massive spike that would mean a giant progression beyond the typical table limits were used.
I assume your results would show that though.
My chart since January has been a constant uphill climb - I don't see anything close to that from anyone else regardless of their position.
But yes, waste of time as far as a competition.
If you want to do it, use Parx - it's so amazingly rigged in your opinion, think how easy it would be. I'm positive you won't though because in reality, it's not rigged and you won't have a loophole to use like R. Sim seems to have.
But anyway, waste of time.

Yet for some reason you and other people playing your system can't seem to win on Steve's free game. 

Hmmmm...I wonder why that is.

(link:s://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/gcrc/dms/image/C4D12AQG9T7EnFal1WA/article-cover_image-shrink_600_2000/0?e=2122675200&v=beta&t=7eXkghBf-eA3WamjMP5M07aRsH3wwFQBPFVlOAaKK60)

Quote from: The General on Apr 11, 03:10 PM 2018Yet for some reason you and other people playing your system can't seem to win on Steve's free game.
Hmmmm...I wonder why that is.

Because I'm the only one playing my system - and I don't play it there.
Why do you keep assuming other people are playing "my system" when they aren't ?
Is it easier to point to someone else and say "they aren't winning with it" when they
aren't even using it.
I use it - I destroyed Parx and moving up to first on R. Sim.... it's that simple.
My live play continues to be perfect without a losing session... same as any other
fair rng or table... why would someone else's play of their own system impact what my results are ?  Aren't you even a little smart ?
So if someone thinks they know how to exploit bias wheels and loses big - can I then say "Why didn't that person win using your skills General ??"
No, that would make me a idiot. Clearly you are close or heading towards that level
to even think that way.

The General is delegitimized in my book because he has a clear agenda

He makes so many assumptions and accusations that just aren’t true. I’ve seen it time and time again with you TG. I’d ignore him.

His agenda is to discredit anything and everything that isn’t advantage play or exploiting a wheel

Hey, if you find a biased wheel and gain an edge because of it then that is awesome

But if you spend your free time on forums belittling people that just shows character and it’s not a character I’d want to be involved with.

If I saw him at the casino I’d say hey man good luck, because I don’t wish losing on anyone.

I’m waiting for an AP thread from him in the AP section at the sad excuse of a forum GF. Can’t even get a thread out of him. It’s only negativity, and condescending GIFs

I’d agree to disagree and move on from this clown

Question. Was every book destroyed in the fire?

According to RouletteGhost roulette systems like Turbo's and the KTF don't work.
"Any and all methods will lose long term due to the house edge"-RouletteGhost

"No matter what you test long term it will fail. It is called the house edge and unfair payout"-RouletteGhost

QuoteBut if you spend your free time on forums belittling people that just shows character and it’s not a character I’d want to be involved with.

Being self employed I have more free time than most people.  I feel that it's important for people to learn what works, what doesn't, and what's misleading to naive people.  Your system is misleading, and it flatly doesn't work in the real world of wheels.   

Sorry, just the facts.

-The General.

I never said “they don’t work”

I’ve said everyone’s definition of what works is different

When people play some systems they don’t play continuously for a million spins to lose in the long term

They have a stop loss and a stop win. So it changes the game a bit for those players

Playing for an insignificant number of spins.

If system play bothers you, instead of repeating yourself over many years, Perhaps system forums aren’t the place for you and you should focus your efforts on speaking to like minded AP players.

Quote"Any and all methods will lose long term due to the house edge"-RouletteGhost

"No matter what you test long term it will fail. It is called the house edge and unfair payout"-RouletteGhost

Ghost,

By your definition, Turbo's system will lose in the long run.

Are you now saying that his system will only win in the short, provided that he play's only a statistically irrelevant number of spins?  ::)

Maybe that's what Turbo's argument should be as well.  You see, as an AP we look towards the long term, not just the next spin or the next series of spins like the system players do.    So please forgive me, I thought that Turbo was looking beyond the short term.  ::)

I don’t see the house edge being changed

Every bet has a negative expectation

If turbo makes it work using a set of rules then good for him. I’m not here to mock and criticize him because he doesn’t do that to others

If he has a set stop loss and stop win that gives him more wins then losses then good for him

AP forums exist? No?

Your tactics are very very old

You are like a broken record that plays year after year

We get it

We get your point

We know how you feel

We don’t care.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 11, 05:58 PM 2018
I don’t see the house edge being changed

Every bet has a negative expectation

If turbo makes it work using a set of rules then good for him. I’m not here to mock and criticize him because he doesn’t do that to others

If he has a set stop loss and stop win that gives him more wins then losses then good for him

So are you saying that his system will LOSE in the long term, just like the KTF and all of the others will?

Logic, it's always in the way.

(link:://:.thesleuthjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/checkmate.jpg)

The math says they will lose if you put it into a bot and run 3 million spins because the math doesn’t change

You are forgetting the control the player has

The control of the bets. When they bet. How often they bet. The stop loss. Etc etc.

That’s why I laugh when guys like coder joe graph 3 million spins clearly not following rules

But please. Continue to repeat yourself

We don’t quite understand how you feel about roulette yet.

Tell the roulette forums 65 more times so we get it

Please.

I’ll do it for ya? I’ll even throw in the condescending pics and gifs don’t worry man I got you

What do ya say buddy? Shut up with the same recycled shit everyday? Yea?

Quote from: The General on Apr 11, 05:51 PM 2018I feel that it's important for people to learn what works, what doesn't, and what's misleading to naive people.

LMAO!

I really have heard it all now.

Saint Caleb the Compassionate


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if I was drinking a beer, I would have just spit it out

LMAO

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 11, 06:32 PM 2018
if I was drinking a beer, I would have just spit it out

LMAO

Can you get hold of Guinness West indies Porter in US? Its 6%, one of my fav. beers



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im not a big porter/stout guy

I am sure I could find it though

I have been in the craft beer scene over the past year

The Hazy New England IPAs have gotten out of hand

HEY you are in the UK....one of my favorite NY breweries does collaborations with CLOUDWATER....if you want to try a new England hazy ipa I strongly suggest going to cloud water

in manchester

new england hazy IPAs are the BEST beers out there IMO

link:://cloudwaterbrew.co/

if it is a chocolate or coffee stout i can tolerate it

cloudwater has stouts to

their websites lists them all...those DDH IPAs sound amazing!

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 11, 06:38 PM 2018link:://cloudwaterbrew.co/

I feel a bit embarrassed. Never heard of it. Right next to the train station.

Boddingtons was the big Manchester brewery. Holts is still going.

I used to Brew Bitter. have my own Mash tun and boiler.

My team was awarded a day out down town and I am meeting up at Piccadilly station. Ill go early and get some pics.

Quote from: Turner on Apr 11, 06:25 PM 2018
LMAO!

I really have heard it all now.

Saint Caleb the Compassionate

(link:s://i.pinimg.com/originals/f5/21/5b/f5215bbe17db1ede4856222922460d1f.jpg)

Some people say that my heart is three sizes too big. 

the brewery here did a collaboration with cloudwater...

one of my favorites...."all citra everything" it is called...a hazy, juicy IPA

the UK version was a little too strong for my taste but still very good

(link:s://scontent-amt2-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/4a8d13f73afb5243072ad804327341bf/5B36A929/t51.2885-15/e35/28157003_163193947811770_1610953919612059648_n.jpg)

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 06:28 AM 2018And like I said - Parx is completely fair.

Turbo, wake up. If you log in every day, you get a higher bonus than players who don't log in every day.  Here, so everyone can see:

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/11/temp_331297.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sF79f)

Your argument is Parx is fair because everyone COULD just login every day for the maximum daily bonus. Sure they COULD, but I'm sure many players dont. Then they go back to only 500 units daily bonus, instead of your 3000 credits bonus every day.

Then your next argument is bonus credits dont count towards the winnings total. And even if that's true, it's not what i'm talking about.

Consider this:

If I log in every day and build to 3000 bonus credits per day, and do this for 1 week, I'll have 7 x 3000 credits = $21,000 to play with. Meanwhile, a new members starts with $1000 (or whatever low amount).

Now both of you bet everything you have on red. You extend the betting limits by using combinations of bets. You both have the same odds of winning (EC). Now you both win on red. You both double your money. You now have $42,000 and the other player has $2000. So who's going to rank higher and be more likely to get the $100,000 bonus?

The same thing is easily done with a system rather than one bet.

Come on Turbo, this is really simple math. I've explained all this before and you are deliberately avoiding it. Again your excuses are:

1. Everyone has the same chance. Everyone can login consecutive days too. But you say it a different way. Instead you say "parx is fair".

2. "Bonuses dont count towards winnings". You said:

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 06:28 AM 2018Any bonus doesn't count towards the leaderboard rankings - so if you accept the challenge - play there.

The winnings from bonuses DO count. I've said this so many times now, and you are still repeating the same nonsense. You keep avoiding the real issue, so many times now that it must be deliberate. Why?

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 06:28 AM 2018At R. SIm I never played insane progressions or exploited that in order to rank - my charts clearly show that. There's no massive spike that would mean a giant progression beyond the typical table limits were used.

Actually it more shows your aim for each session is at least a small profit before resetting. Certain types of progression reduce the chance of large spikes. One example is betting on red and using a +1 after losses and -1 after wins progression, then reset on any profit.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 06:28 AM 2018use Parx - it's so amazingly rigged in your opinion, think how easy it would be

Well yeah, easy, all I'd need to do is:

1. Set a bot to log in every day for the $3000/day consecutive day bonus. I'll build my bankroll to say $50,000.

2. I'll use a basic progression system.

Because I made $50,000 from nothing and most "suckers" are stuck with the $500 daily bonus, they wouldn't be able to compete. That means i'll have the best shot at a $100,000 bonus. then I'll be unstoppable. Nobody would be able to win as much as me, and I'll rank higher, win another $100,000 prize, and so on.

Or is the math too complicated for you to understand?

Getting $50,000 just for logging in every day is just like a real casino, isn't it?

Getting a $100,000 bonus which is then used to win more and outrank other players is totally realistic, isnt it?

Tell me again, Parx is not rigged.

Ranking high on parx is easy, but it takes TIME. That's why i agree to a challenge but only with a bot that plays for me.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 06:28 AM 2018in reality, it's not rigged and you won't have a loophole to use like R. Sim seems to have.

Turbo you either don't understand the very simple math I'm explaining, or you are deliberately avoiding it. I think you're avoiding it.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 11, 07:30 AM 2018come on steve there you go again bla bla bla .........you against turbo on prax ......rigged or not ....BOTH WILL BE TREATED THE SAME....... lets see who makes more.......quit your babying put your big boy pants on and do this thing

Another one who translates logic to "bla bla bla".

I already agreed to such a challenge but only if someone provides a bot to play automatically. I have a life and wont sit and waste weeks to prove something that is already obvious if you understand primary school math. Great that turbo has that spare time, but I don't.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 11, 07:42 AM 2018hey steve do you think you could show a better graph on prax then turbo.......do you think you would have a constant uphill climb as long as turbo ......i say put up or shut up......

Sure, +/-1 unit progression on EC and reset on bankroll increase. Whoopie. No big spikes, and taking advantage of unrealistic table limits.

A challenge would only be for your benefit, not mine. So you can better understand Parx is a terrible place to test or compare a system. I'm not keen on wasting weeks or months of time on play money, like turbo does. That's why I accept the challenge only if a bot is used.

Before turbo admitted RS is not a good place to test, and multiple other players also rank high with the HG, I'm sure you would have been saying it was proof of his HG.

You not understanding parx math is your own problem. I'm sure at least intelligent people here can understand the logic and why a test on Parx would be useless.

The best overall test would be to play side-by-side with turbo on the same spins and same wheel, for months. It's not practical of course. But it would prove that a +120% edge with a roulette computer beats 1 -2.7% edge repeaters system. Would you be so surprised?

Sure computers are cheating, in half of casinos. In the other half, it's not cheating and we do pretty well. But its a rather unfair comparison. I'm not looking to compare my methods with anyone else's. I don't care about anyone else's methods. Why would I, considering my edge? I care about people misleading others.

Quote from: denzie on Apr 11, 10:02 AM 2018You dont have time to log in every day? Well you can here so you can there as well....
Now enough talk......prove your awesome skills

I would need to spend weeks or months playing solidly like Turbo did. To win PLAY MONEY and show a few people what is already obvious in the math and logic of parx. I'm sorry, I have a life. I already waste enough time explaining basic concepts to a few people that still dont get it.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 11, 05:58 PM 2018If he has a set stop loss and stop win that gives him more wins then losses then good for him

Stop-loss does nothing. It can prevent you from hitting some big wins, or ave you from further loss. Which will it do? Well there's a slightly greater chance continued play will mean you lose. And that's because of the house edge. Money management and stop loss is actually nearly worthless in most cases. It's for gamblers.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 11, 06:02 PM 2018The control of the bets. When they bet. How often they bet. The stop loss. Etc etc.

That’s why I laugh when guys like coder joe graph 3 million spins clearly not following rules

The system player has no control over the odds. So it doesnt much matter what they bet or what system they use. It's all just a bunch of random bets with random bet size. And that's the reality of what systems are. It doesnt matter how you package it or think it works.... a typical system is a collection of elaborate but useless triggers that don't change the accuracy, and bet sizes that mere vary the amount wagered.

All this rift between the math / AP guys and the system players is bullshit from the system players who dont understand the math, or how to test properly. APs dont care if you lose money. I dont care if you lose your own money. I only care about people being misled. I';m genuinely spending my time here trying to help people. Although there's always the occasional moron who thinks it must be a grand conspiracy.

Also you need to understand the importance of testing large volumes of spins.

This is all a big circle. I wish I could say its a debate or discussion. But the reality is we have Turbo misleading people, and a few gullible people who are not understanding basic math and logic.

For the people who think me and Caleb are the ones with problems.... what you need to understand is what we're saying is actually the truth. What Turbo and many others are preaching is actually harmful and inaccurate.

We are doing the right thing by explaining it. But unfortunately it is not being understood, people take it personally, people think there's a hidden agenda, people get offended and upset their perception is revealed and incorrect, and so on.

But you know we are not talking about some huge Earth-shattering revelation. We are talking about really, really basic stuff.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 11, 08:25 PM 2018For the people who think me and Caleb are the ones with problems.... what you need to understand is what we're saying is actually the truth

but you are an open minded guy who will look at radical ways other than AP and you are not out to disrupt the site. You are not a virus. A virus that is very very predictable in the way it escalates.

I didn't read the whole thing (but I will).

So far....maybe I still can't explain it -

The math doesn't change like you seem to think it does.

QuoteNow both of you bet everything you have on red. You extend the betting limits by using combinations of bets. You both have the same odds of winning (EC). Now you both win on red. You both double your money. You now have $42,000 and the other player has $2000.

You forgot - they're using the same math.
They both bet on red and black shows.
One lost 21,000.00 and the other 1,000
The math doesn't change at all - bet big and win or lose big, bet less and win or lose less - same math, no advantage.
But anyway - you just assume they both won and now the one player is so far ahead of the other..
in reality - if they both lose, one only lost 1k and the other 21 times that.
Anyway - I'll add more once I read more.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 11, 08:25 PM 2018
For the people who think me and Caleb are the ones with problems.... what you need to understand is what we're saying is actually the truth. What Turbo and many others are preaching is actually harmful and inaccurate.

We are doing the right thing by explaining it. But unfortunately it is not being understood, people take it personally, people think there's a hidden agenda, people get offended and upset their perception is revealed and incorrect, and so on.

But you know we are not talking about some huge Earth-shattering revelation. We are talking about really, really basic stuff.

Not complete truth when you admit you don't know everything.

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20184.0

When you declare you maintain an open mind, don't contradict yourself. I don't expect you to believe unsubstantiated claims either. Open minded enough that winning systems play are not posted on forums.

I really wish more people here could speak the language of math.

Basic probability is everyone's friend when it comes to understanding the game and it's payout.  Unfortunately it's all too often met with hostility and attacks.

It's really convenient.

Player A brings 3k as a bankroll to the casino
Player B gets 3k from the casino (bonus)
Now our math is supposedly different.
They both lose.

Player A comes back the next day with another 3k
Player B gets 3k from the casino (bonus)
They both lose.

Player A comes back the next day with another 3k
Player B gets 3k from the casino (bonus)
HEY ! they both win today ! they double their money !

Player A = -3000 -3000 +3000 and is at -3000 and NOT on the leaderboard.
Player B = -3000 -3000 +3000 and is at -3000 and NOT on the leaderboard.
Turbo plays and wins 5000.00 on the third day - wow.
-3000 - 3000 +5000 and is at -1000 = NOT on the leaderboard. lol

It's the same, casino or log in - one brings a bankroll and one gets it daily but it doesn't count towards any kind of "winnings" until you are above everything that you lost prior.............. sighs.
I'm not sure why I bother lol

And it's soooooooo easy and rigged - you should do it there then.
Rank #1 and stay there for a few weeks. (bot - lol, no really. I have almost
no time and did it without a bot) but do whatever you want.
If you can at least match what I did there I'm sure everyone would be impressed -
but you can't do it - even with a bot.
So what if you build up your log in bonus and put it all on "RED" for 1 spin.
You can lose too - now you're in the hole and have to get out, not easy right ?
So it's a useless challenge I guess. Just keep calling it rigged and I'm misleading,
it's maybe the only way to deal with it without having to accept that things
are possible. I won't mention the subject unless someone asks me to.
Like I said, my live play (it will be "not enough spins") will show that what I'm doing works and continues to work for as long as I want.

Quote from: Turner on Apr 11, 08:29 PM 2018
but you are an open minded guy who will look at radical ways other than AP and you are not out to disrupt the site. You are not a virus. A virus that is very very predictable in the way it escalates.

It is easy to deal with escalation if it happens.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 11, 08:29 PM 2018
I didn't read the whole thing (but I will).

So far....maybe I still can't explain it -

The math doesn't change like you seem to think it does.

You forgot - they're using the same math.
They both bet on red and black shows.
One lost 21,000.00 and the other 1,000
The math doesn't change at all - bet big and win or lose big, bet less and win or lose less - same math, no advantage.
But anyway - you just assume they both won and now the one player is so far ahead of the other..
in reality - if they both lose, one only lost 1k and the other 21 times that.
Anyway - I'll add more once I read more.

You do a lot of talking about math for someone who doesnt understand properly.

You forget if they used the same system with progression, one will go bust really early, and the other can continue a much longer progression and eventually win. So tell me again, there's no advantage to the player with $21,000. Right?

CHT, yes I have an open mind. I do not believe repeaters is a valid method, because of my own testing, the extensive testing of others and much more. In fact all information indicates repeaters cannot work. It's just like the flat earth theory - all the proof points the other way. There's not a single bit of valid information to show otherwise.

Turbo, correct your math. At least try to understand someone with a large bankroll is much more likely to profit than someone with a smaller bankroll. Why? Because they can extend their progression much longer. Eventually they too will lose, but the odds are they'll win enough to outrank other players who had much less to play with. And they you get a huge bonus and can more easily repeat the process.

You say you dont know why you bother, as if I'm the one not understanding. Come on, this is really basic.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 11, 09:08 PM 2018
CHT, yes I have an open mind. I do not believe repeaters is a valid method, because of my own testing, the extensive testing of others and much more. In fact all information indicates repeaters cannot work. It's just like the flat earth theory - all the proof points the other way. There's not a single bit of valid information [posted on forum] to show otherwise.

Some people(don't assume to include me) are not black and white with repeaters. They believe in shades of gray.

CHT, when researching the flat earth gibberish, I did much broader research off the forum. Mostly a variety of youtube videos from notable flat earth theorists who claimed their video had irrefutable proof. And the proof turned out to be ignorance so bad I'd have to call it "sickness".

I really gave it an open mind look. but every piece of so called proof didnt check out. the only valid information I found was that NASA edits photos. But that could be for many other, more realistic reasons.

Turbo,

Do you feel that your method would win if you were to FLAT bet?  (Meaning no progression is used.)

@Turbo.

I'm wondering, you Have said in the past that you once needed to go to a six step progression with your System.
May i ask what a Safe bankroll would be to play your System? You've said that on roulette simulator the 3000 units is to Low, so what is the safepoint to start playing Without having to worry about the bank bein' busted? And what Max progression do you use for a six or seven step one?
Is it: 1/5/25/50/100/125 (150) ?
Thanks for taking your Time to awnser.
Cheers, eddy

I'm almost certain that Turbo doesn't play Every repeater that comes along.
Well he maybe bet every repeater but not at the same Time that is. Because of the simple fact, that it would be too much presure on the bankroll.
My guess is that he is playing a Max of 4-8 repeaters at the same Time, but not More then 8.
So let's say he is playing a Max of 8 numbers All the Time, my guess is that when he reached that 8 numbers, he is Staying with these Max Right All the Time for the rest of the session. So 8 numbers Max All the Time but they would be shifting! So everytime a new repeater Comes into play, he could remove the oldest one non hit repeater from that 8 list. So he makes sure he is Always playing the hottest repeaters at that time. Cycle Independent.
The only problem that comes to my mind, is when a number is hit and het a higher chip value but after 8 spins Without a hit this number Will fall of the list as well, but that Will cost you alot of money . I can't figure out how this can be solved.

Didn't Turbo say he play a maximum of 4 repeaters? He can confirm if this is true or not?

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 12, 05:17 AM 2018
Didn't Turbo say he play a maximum of 4 repeaters? He can confirm if this is true or not?

No he didn't say that. I follow his threads for years now and he never said that he is playing a Max of 4 numbers. Only that he doesn't bet on every repeater that comes along, because you can't profit from that.
So he has a Max of numbers he would bet. But like i said before, it doesn't feel Right to play like this. Because you are actualy forcing the wheel to produceren a winner at least Evert 8 spins, if you are playing with Max 8. Otherwise the numbers in play Will be replaced with new ones All the Time, including the ones with High value chips on them. The good things is that the betselection can't grow out of hand.

Stop assuming how turbo plays
Don't put a lot of hope on him, he won't tell you more

Get deeper in the hole and you will never go out of it -:)

Ask yourself why is betting for repeaters better than betting non-hit?
This lovely tester made by the great Priyanka, is good to see why you’ll need to go more than 1 cycle, most games, sometimes it’ll get the 3X, but today not.
So let’s look at these 37 spins or 1/37
In grey the 37 spins using 1 unit each time, total cost 703 units. This way you’ll need 20 wins of return value 36.
Now if like Eddy say’s, maybe Turbo’s way, just bet the 4 hottest, 11, 27, 10, 24; you get a win.
Ok you’re likely to have 1 repeat in 1st 10 spins, but if you look in 100 days of Mort, spins 11-40 you can see the average is 15.69668246 I don’t stick to math rule I just use the 15, so 15 non-hit and 15 repeats. Ok use math and its 16; so today’s checkpoint is spot on, 16 non-hits came, means 14 repeats happened.
Now you’re looking for repeats, how do those repeats come? You’ll have to collect lots of games to get the non-hit averages, forget all this 1 in 37; over 37 spins repeats happen and like Turbo you can see when they’ll come, that large starting group of 37 #’s gets smaller as those 1x’s grow the repeat has to happen, the GUT paper tracker usable in B+M, HERE it comes General lets you see the trot or use countback.

Or just KFC


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ROFL

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Pie in the sky?

You know, the problem starts when you Have a Max of numbers that you play with, like Turbo 4-8 numbers. But when you start to rotate the numbers in your list of Max 8, then you are gonna Miss many hits, May crucial ones that are needed to bring you to a new High.

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 12, 07:54 AM 2018
You know, the problem starts when you Have a Max of numbers that you play with, like Turbo 4-8 numbers. But when you start to rotate the numbers in your list of Max 8, then you are gonna Miss many hits, May crucial ones that are needed to bring you to a new High.

Because they were deleted along the way, when new repeaters came into play. So i don't think that is how he selects them. Another option is to have  a Max of 4-8 repeaters in play and when one of those doesn't get a hit in let's say 18, 24 or 35 spins, that # Will be deleted. And now there is room for a new repeater. Once a number gets hit and it get a new chip value, it moves to the 1st position again and can't be deleted until the End of the cycle, because it has repeater above expectation. So the rotaion now Goes for the rest of our numbers. Just a thought.

 This makes no sense at all.
Turbo said many Times that repeatets are the way to go, so Hot numbers, now i found a post werenhe is saying that betting Hot numbers is not the way to go!  :ooh:
Because it is never certain that when a number is hot, it stays Hot, true! Mmm

This is what he said:
Problem #1 - recording, tracking spins is useless. You need to start from spin 1, not wait for some event to happen before betting. This is a huge mistake among people who try systems and methods. Tracking and then jumping in doesn't work. Play from spin 1.
Problem #2 - Because a number "was" hot, doesn't mean a damn thing about it staying hot - it can go cold or hit on average while you're now betting on it. If you were tracking and not playing it as it became a "hot number" then you already missed the boat. There's no value in betting something once it's hot - you can only win by betting it while it's becoming hot.
Just my advice (and I know what I'm talking about...) Take it or leave it.

So do i Read it wrong or is he saying that he is not waiting for repeaters but plays every number spun from spin 1?
With the change to loose More then 700 units at the End of the cycle when there is No hit. I Just don't follow it amymore, strange. :yawn:

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 12, 10:18 AM 2018
This makes no sense at all.
Turbo said many Times that repeatets are the way to go, so Hot numbers, now i found a post werenhe is saying that betting Hot numbers is not the way to go!  :ooh:
Because it is never certain that when a number is hot, it stays Hot, true! Mmm

This is what he said:
Problem #1 - recording, tracking spins is useless. You need to start from spin 1, not wait for some event to happen before betting. This is a huge mistake among people who try systems and methods. Tracking and then jumping in doesn't work. Play from spin 1.
Problem #2 - Because a number "was" hot, doesn't mean a damn thing about it staying hot - it can go cold or hit on average while you're now betting on it. If you were tracking and not playing it as it became a "hot number" then you already missed the boat. There's no value in betting something once it's hot - you can only win by betting it while it's becoming hot.
Just my advice (and I know what I'm talking about...) Take it or leave it.

So do i Read it wrong or is he saying that he is not waiting for repeaters but plays every number spun from spin 1?
With the change to loose More then 700 units at the End of the cycle when there is No hit. I Just don't follow it amymore, strange. :yawn:

If that is recently said I don't understand it either. I know earlier Turbo had "cold number system", that maybe could be a bit success but not like the hot numbers.

jekhb76.......here is something to ponder.........he does say bet numbers that hit above average...........one thing we do know after millions and millions of spins the average for a repeat is around 7 or 8 SPINS..........so anything under 7 is above average

Jekhb76. Even betting every single number that comes from spin one you need a bankroll of 6680 to make it to spin 18.  The trick is to vary the progressions as the different numbers come up so that you are betting the amount needed to profit for the numbers on the board.  You can't do a 1/5/25 progression, it gets to ugly, too quickly.  An 18 step progression betting each number that comes up is 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-3-4-6-10-16-27-48-93-186, total 6680 to win a few bucks, need a dynamic prigression, not a static one

Quote from: Nimo on Apr 12, 12:54 PM 2018
Jekhb76. Even betting every single number that comes from spin one you need a bankroll of 6680 to make it to spin 18.  The trick is to vary the progressions as the different numbers come up so that you are betting the amount needed to profit for the numbers on the board.  You can't do a 1/5/25 progression, it gets to ugly, too quickly.  An 18 step progression betting each number that comes up is 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-3-4-6-10-16-27-48-93-186, total 6680 to win a few bucks, need a dynamic prigression, not a static one

Yes but we don't Have to profit asp.
What if we bet every repeater that comes along and when on hit put a progression on it, only the one hit. We continue this until we reach a profit and start again.
So we start when a repeater Comes and we put 1 unit on it and repeat this for every new repeater. As soon as hits for the third Time we place 5 units on it and continue this progress for as Long as we need. 1/5/25/50/100 until in profit. I realise that we need a very big bank, but maybe this can work with a bank of let's say 10 to 25.000 units.
I don't know what bank Turbo is using, and with tjis progression u stay within Table limits. Again Just a thought.

Or.....we bet every repeater that comes along and when one gets hit, we use our 5/25/50/100 progression on it. As soon as one gets hit with 100 chips on it and we are still not in profit we return that one to 5 units again and continue.... :question:
Again, Always take First profit and restart.
Needs propper testing.

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Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 12, 10:18 AM 2018This is what he said:
Problem #1 - recording, tracking spins is useless. You need to start from spin 1, not wait for some event to happen before betting. This is a huge mistake among people who try systems and methods. Tracking and then jumping in doesn't work. Play from spin 1.
Problem #2 - Because a number "was" hot, doesn't mean a damn thing about it staying hot - it can go cold or hit on average while you're now betting on it. If you were tracking and not playing it as it became a "hot number" then you already missed the boat. There's no value in betting something once it's hot - you can only win by betting it while it's becoming hot.

So bet aggressive,

If you just bet the same number of numbers at random (for example the cold numbers)

but run the same exact progression...you'll find that the results overtime are the exact same. (thousands of trials)

The bet selection isn't enabling the system to win.  It's the progression that creates the illusion that it works by borrowing from the future to pay for the past.  (Think Martingale.)

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Set the Bank to MPR 1000, bet aggressive; +1134

So take a 1000 win a thousand GENERAL; LMAO as you're mate would say " DUH "

I'll take my consistent short term wins.  Math in the long run wins out, I don't argue that, I'll just keep profiting as I have for past 20 years until math catches up to me. Lol

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 01, 08:05 PM 2018
its common sense

never will all 37 numbers hit in 37 spins

99% of the time there is a 3peater and 4peater so id bet on any number thats repeated

99% of the time, ? that, but today Ghost :thumbsup:

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/13/temp_699483.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sOa1B)

I just thought of something.
What if turbo's way of playing is like a snowball?
I grows and grows, (bankroll) The one who is playing his system is the only person who can stop the snowball, and he can everytime and at every point stop the growth. By this i mean that his profit will always get bigger and bigger.
A funny thought, but this is what i was thinking just yet.
His method, can go on endlesly i think, and he will always win. and when his bankroll keeps growing so can his basebet, and earn more and more.
just like the repeaters. a 2peater will eventualy also become a 20peater etc.
maybe turbo can explane a little bit more, about the snowball effect

Why you believe turbo stragedy is a winner ?

Did you see his statements of account ?

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 13, 08:15 AM 2018
Why you believe turbo stragedy is a winner ?

Did you see his statements of account ?

Just a feeling i have for many years now. If i didn't, i wouldn't spend so much time trying to find the awnser.

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 13, 08:26 AM 2018
Just a feeling i have for many years now. If i didn't, i wouldn't spend so much time trying to find the awnser.

It can be only bla bla, Can't it be ?

The concept of turbo's stragedy is not consistent, he wants to beat random with random !!

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 13, 08:26 AM 2018
Just a feeling i have for many years now. If i didn't, i wouldn't spend so much time trying to find the awnser.

Bet on each repeater as it comes up, adjust progression according to the step and number of bets, profit once any number becomes a threepeat.  Reset. 

Quote from: Nimo on Apr 13, 08:34 AM 2018
Bet on each repeater as it comes up, adjust progression according to the step and number of bets, profit once any number becomes a threepeat.  Reset.

yes, i have thought of that also, but turbo says he can play on and on and always win. so i want to find out what his snowball effect is. there must be a way in come and return of the numbers to always be up front at the end.

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 13, 08:28 AM 2018
It can be only bla bla, Can't it be ?

The concept of turbo's stragedy is not consistent, he wants to beat random with random !!

my cut feeling tells me that this ain't no blablabla.
i think it is harder for him then for us.
I think he wants to teach and tell us all about his system, but he does not because he is affraid it will be all over the place in notime and many will sell it online as their own. and all the effect it will have on the casino's. i understand. but that doesn't mean i don't want to find out more about his system.

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 13, 08:51 AM 2018
yes, i have thought of that also, but turbo says he can play on and on and always win. so i want to find out what his snowball effect is. there must be a way in come and return of the numbers to always be up front at the end.

The key is the progression. If you adjust it as you go, you always profit.

Quote from: Nimo on Apr 13, 08:59 AM 2018
The key is the progression. If you adjust it as you go, you always profit.

Yes i could be, but that ain't tell us how to play it. :question:

i once tried to play every repeater that came and once a repeater turned into a tripple, i would drop all the two's and start betting only the tripple and the once that became a tripple, this with a higher progression, but turned also out into a big hole.

I think Turbo's play goes up and down. He just quit when he's in plus. It"s not raising all the time?

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 13, 09:09 AM 2018
Yes i could be, but that ain't tell us how to play it. :question:

I'll post a session later today

Maybe you could figure out what most of the hotties/repeaters have in common.

Like how much spins do they have between them.
When do a repeat hits for the first time
The second time.
third time.
ect.

Maybe its posible to find some common ground and use that to limit the numbers you are betting and only bet the numbers that have a higher change to become hot.

Quote from: RayManZ on Apr 13, 10:13 AM 2018
Maybe you could figure out what most of the hotties/repeaters have in common.

Like how much spins do they have between them.
When do a repeat hits for the first time
The second time.
third time.
ect.

Maybe its posible to find some common ground and use that to limit the numbers you are betting and only bet the numbers that have a higher change to become hot.

Notto's KTF trot helps with that

Just thinking, what about this?

Track 37 spins for a European wheel, Find All VERY Hot numbers i.e numbers which hit >= 3 times, play on them from 38th till 74th spin, any win on those numbers, add 1 unit on winning number and keeps other remain. Any number not repeating in this cycle, remove after 74th spin.
P.s. when there is No tripple in the 37 tracking spins, Keep tracking until you atleast Have 1, then start next cycle.

If not in profit at 74th Spin, then add the Very Hot numbers from 1st cycle of 37 spins into this second cycle of 37 numbers Very hot numbers coming and continue playing.
Most of the time before 74th Spin, you will be in profit if not then play the next cycle along with the previous cycle of 37 spins Hot numbers>3 times or more. Keep appending previous cycle's hot numbers and play, don't forget to eliminate Hot numbers not coming in every cycle.

More play more profit but you can lose since most of the times even up to 7th or 8th cycle you will be playing 8 -9 numbers max with 10/15/20 units on them. Bankroll requirements are 4 K with 1 unit base bet.

Maybe a 10% goal i.e 400 Units for every session.

Quote from: Nimo on Apr 13, 10:07 AM 2018
I'll post a session later today

:thumbsup:

Forgot to mention, that because the wheel has No Memory, you can retrack the last 37 spins as soon as you reach a profit after a cycle, No need to continue with the same numbers. You can ofcourse. Also i think a 10% win is a little bit to High, Keep it at 5% 200 units and restart.
Maybe this is not far off how Turbo is playing. He once told in a thread that he played Max 400 spins or 2 hours per session, wich came First. Further more he said that he played Max 8 numbers at once. So these two qualifys for our method too. Max 11 cycles. And we also never play More then 8 or 9 # per cycle. Always a point where you Have a All Time new High . With the Right bankroll. 4000 is enough i guess. But the More the safer. When you lose a cycle and you're i'm debt, you could continue with the same base bet of raise it with 1. Or continue with the amount that was on the hitted one in the last cycle. Didn't test this yet.

Improving Turbo's repeater (hot number method) on the live wheel for Euro players that want to gamble a bit.

1. Keep a subset of numbers for each spin direction.  This means you'll have one set of numbers for clockwise, and one set for counter clockwise spins.
2. Play as long as you can, provided that the wheel speeds and ball being used are similar. 
3. Increase bets as you win, not as you lose.  This way you can start at a higher unit bet and work down if losing, and up if winning...  or...If you want to make it wild ride, and take a higher risk shot... play the reverse Labby on the numbers.
4. When playing conditions change dramatically restart your tracking or wait for the conditions that were similar to your previous conditions to return.
5. Pay special attention to the numbers that hit because the ball short cut the center of the wheel to reach them.  Also pay special attention to the numbers that hit because the ball chased the number tape for a full revolution before falling in and landing.  Give these hot numbers priority over others.
6.  Play the dealers that spin the rotor (wheel) at a higher rate of speed.  Avoid slow rotors.

Hello jekhb76
If I may, I would advise you to take a break from the cycles of 37 and 74 spins and from the progressions.
If you want to understand the method of the Turbo, try to see the picture which is drawn by repetition through the cycles end long, but in General. Steve is right in saying that by analyzing the continuity of a statistically significant length we will see that all the numbers fell about the same number of times. But he does not mention one very important for understanding the Turbo method of the phenomenon, namely the presence of a dominant group of numbers throughout the above mentioned continuity. We are not talking about specific numbers, all numbers are equally likely, we are talking about a group of numbers. No wonder Turbo gave a figurative example with three horses and a race. Now it's up to the details that are no less important than the basis of the method. Below I will give a graph of the game based on my understanding of the Tg method. And sorry for my English)

111 spins played
Profit : â,¬442
Biggest Drawdown -â,¬57

Another Session.
148 spins played (3 cycles were bet)
Profit: â,¬576
Biggest Drawdown: -â,¬42

I played it this way.
When in debt after a cycle, i kept the chips on the hitted numbers, and took them to the next cycle of spins along with the 3peaters from last cycle, and removed the numbers that i've bet during the last cycle and didn't get a hit. this way we always stay between 5-9 numbers in play max.
I think we are on to something  :smile: :smile: who knows  :o

I think turbo can hide now  :thumbsup:

Short test, not so successfull. Maybe I did something wrong.

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 13, 03:02 PM 2018
Short test, not so successfull. Maybe I did something wrong.

Do you Have the spins Boyd? I can Have a look!

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 13, 11:01 AM 2018
:thumbsup:

NOTE:  To math guys, yes the odds are still 1/37 and random.  Betting repeaters gives you a random starting point and continuing to bet on them gives you additional random entry betting points.

Spin 1: 22 No bet
Spin 2: 8 No bet
Spin 3: 10 No bet
Spin 4: 14 No bet
Spin 5: 19 No bet
Spin 6: 36 No bet
Spin 7: 18 No Bet
Spin 8: 2 No bet
Spin 9: 3 No bet
Spin 10: 26 No Bet
Spin 11: 15 No Bet
Spin 12: 24 No Bet
Spin 13: 31 No bet
Spin 14: 36, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36
Spin 15: 23,  Continue Bet 1 Unit on 36
Sin 16: 0, Continue Bet 1 Unit on 36
Spin 17: 16, Continue Bet 1 unit on 36
Spin 18: 9 Continue Bet 1 unit on 36
Spin 19: 2, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2
Spin 20: 11, Continue Bet 1 Unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2
Spin 21: 0, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0
Spin 22: 11, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, Bet 1 unit on 11
Spin 23: 27 Continue Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, Bet 1 unit on 11
Spin 24: 26, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, Bet 1 unit on 11, Bet 1 unit on 26
Spin 25: 6, Continue bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, bet 1 unit on 11, Bet 1 unit on 26
Spin 26: 19 Repeat...Bet 2 units on 36, Bet 2 units on 2, Bet 2 units on 0, Bet 2 units on 11, Bet 2 units on 26, bet 2 units on 19
Spin 27: 23 Repeat...Bet 2 Units on 36, Bet 2 units on 2, Bet 2 units on 0, Bet 2 units on 11, Bet 2 units on 26, Bet 2 units on 19 bet 2 units on 23
Spin 28: 2 Win Profit + 16 units

Reset

May seem like a lot of text, it pretty basic, need to up progression to stay in profit as numbers are added (spin 26), can be done manually, I use a spreadsheet and update it per spin.  The above round took less than 2 minutes fast play mode RNG.  Just start a new spin cycle once you hit profit.  Some take less than 5 total spins, this one took 28 spins, with 14 spins of actual betting.  16 units may not seem like a lot, however with enough practice and speed works out to 300-500 units per hour. Hour after hour after hour.   Bankroll needed can be large once a certain amount have not shown for awhile, but still fall easily with table limits. 

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 13, 03:29 PM 2018
Do you Have the spins Boyd? I can Have a look!

No, sorry I didn't save the spins. I will make another test and save the spins.

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 13, 03:44 PM 2018
No, sorry I didn't save the spins. I will make another test and save the spins.

Ok

Quote from: Nimo on Apr 13, 03:37 PM 2018

NOTE:  To math guys, yes the odds are still 1/37 and random.  Betting repeaters gives you a random starting point and continuing to bet on them gives you additional random entry betting points.

Spin 1: 22 No bet
Spin 2: 8 No bet
Spin 3: 10 No bet
Spin 4: 14 No bet
Spin 5: 19 No bet
Spin 6: 36 No bet
Spin 7: 18 No Bet
Spin 8: 2 No bet
Spin 9: 3 No bet
Spin 10: 26 No Bet
Spin 11: 15 No Bet
Spin 12: 24 No Bet
Spin 13: 31 No bet
Spin 14: 36, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36
Spin 15: 23,  Continue Bet 1 Unit on 36
Sin 16: 0, Continue Bet 1 Unit on 36
Spin 17: 16, Continue Bet 1 unit on 36
Spin 18: 9 Continue Bet 1 unit on 36
Spin 19: 2, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2
Spin 20: 11, Continue Bet 1 Unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2
Spin 21: 0, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0
Spin 22: 11, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, Bet 1 unit on 11
Spin 23: 27 Continue Bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, Bet 1 unit on 11
Spin 24: 26, Repeat...Bet 1 unit on 36, bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, Bet 1 unit on 11, Bet 1 unit on 26
Spin 25: 6, Continue bet 1 unit on 36, Bet 1 unit on 2, Bet 1 unit on 0, bet 1 unit on 11, Bet 1 unit on 26
Spin 26: 19 Repeat...Bet 2 units on 36, Bet 2 units on 2, Bet 2 units on 0, Bet 2 units on 11, Bet 2 units on 26, bet 2 units on 19
Spin 27: 23 Repeat...Bet 2 Units on 36, Bet 2 units on 2, Bet 2 units on 0, Bet 2 units on 11, Bet 2 units on 26, Bet 2 units on 19 bet 2 units on 23
Spin 28: 2 Win Profit + 16 units

Reset

May seem like a lot of text, it pretty basic, need to up progression to stay in profit as numbers are added (spin 26), can be done manually, I use a spreadsheet and update it per spin.  The above round took less than 2 minutes fast play mode RNG.  Just start a new spin cycle once you hit profit.  Some take less than 5 total spins, this one took 28 spins, with 14 spins of actual betting.  16 units may not seem like a lot, however with enough practice and speed works out to 300-500 units per hour. Hour after hour after hour.   Bankroll needed can be large once a certain amount have not shown for awhile, but still fall easily with table limits.

Can go real deep, if your unlucky!
This was my first session.
After 35 spins, +18
But it costed me 702 units to reach that. And only 12 repeaters were bet at the end with each 30 units on them. mmmm don't know if i got the nerves for that.

There are many approaches to Turbo methods,
I wrote it some time ago:

There is unfortunately a huge amount of unsaid things in Turbo strategy
Everyone can identify directions differently

A few days ago, I did simulations on the RX.
I wanted to see how extreme repeaters can behave.
I assumed that if in 37 spins cycle, we dont have a 3time repeater, it should show up very quickly, the assumption was that it should appear up to 42 spin
I used a short progression on all numbers that have hit 2 times. in 37 cycle.
1-1-2-3-5
Maybe my tests were too short, but quite quickly, I saw sessions where the first hit was only on the spin 48.

   And it probably is not a virtual limit

Think how you start the session playing repeaters and suddenly you do not have a hit to 48 spin.
I think that playing from 37 spin to 48 spin, somehow this drawdown would cover.
But in my opinion it is not a virtual limit and it can be much worse.

Quote from: ozon on Apr 13, 04:25 PM 2018
There are many approaches to Turbo methods,
I wrote it some time ago:

There is unfortunately a huge amount of unsaid things in Turbo strategy
Everyone can identify directions differently

A few days ago, I did simulations on the RX.
I wanted to see how extreme repeaters can behave.
I assumed that if in 37 spins cycle, we dont have a 3time repeater, it should show up very quickly, the assumption was that it should appear up to 42 spin
I used a short progression on all numbers that have hit 2 times. in 37 cycle.
1-1-2-3-5
Maybe my tests were too short, but quite quickly, I saw sessions where the first hit was only on the spin 48.

   And it probably is not a virtual limit

I understand, i once saw the first tripple on spin 52!!!! in theory, it can go up to spin 75 where we will see the first tripple. but this won't happen during our lifetime, but possible? yes!.
My method, can go as deep as 11 or 12 cycles of 37 spins, before there is a profit. but a profit is a profit. is it playable in a real BM casino? NO. Live dealer online, yes!
just needs more testing, and look what the best stop/loss is. maybe stop at +100 / -500 units. with a bank of 4000 units.
You just have to remember, that there will always be a time, when you have a profit. it is up to you when to stop. and how long you can play for that day. But i do think i have something good this time.  :wink: ^-^

Quote from: ozon on Apr 13, 04:30 PM 2018
Think how you start the session playing repeaters and suddenly you do not have a hit to 48 spin.
I think that playing from 37 spin to 48 spin, somehow this drawdown would cover.
But in my opinion it is not a virtual limit and it can be much worse.

True, also my thoughts.
That's why, it is better in my oppinion to collect data from the first cycle of 37 spins, and play only the hottest numbers, in my case the tripples if possible and not to stray until the end of 74 spins. everytime a number gets hit, raise it with +1 and keep the rest the same as they are. or in turbo's way, 1/5/25/50/100. but i'll stick to +1 for now. so far so good. after the second cycle is over keep the hit ones, they continiue to the next cycle and delete the others that didn't get hit. and add the hottest numbers from second cycle to the list and play up to spin 111 and beyond.

Quote from: vorchun on Apr 13, 12:54 PM 2018
Hello jekhb76
If I may, I would advise you to take a break from the cycles of 37 and 74 spins and from the progressions.
If you want to understand the method of the Turbo, try to see the picture which is drawn by repetition through the cycles end long, but in General. Steve is right in saying that by analyzing the continuity of a statistically significant length we will see that all the numbers fell about the same number of times. But he does not mention one very important for understanding the Turbo method of the phenomenon, namely the presence of a dominant group of numbers throughout the above mentioned continuity. We are not talking about specific numbers, all numbers are equally likely, we are talking about a group of numbers. No wonder Turbo gave a figurative example with three horses and a race. Now it's up to the details that are no less important than the basis of the method. Below I will give a graph of the game based on my understanding of the Tg method. And sorry for my English)

Can you explain how you play it?

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 14, 04:53 AM 2018
Can you explain how you play it?

Now i'm confused.

Quote from: vorchun on Apr 13, 12:54 PM 2018
Hello jekhb76
If I may, I would advise you to take a break from the cycles of 37 and 74 spins and from the progressions.
If you want to understand the method of the Turbo, try to see the picture which is drawn by repetition through the cycles end long, but in General. Steve is right in saying that by analyzing the continuity of a statistically significant length we will see that all the numbers fell about the same number of times. But he does not mention one very important for understanding the Turbo method of the phenomenon, namely the presence of a dominant group of numbers throughout the above mentioned continuity. We are not talking about specific numbers, all numbers are equally likely, we are talking about a group of numbers. No wonder Turbo gave a figurative example with three horses and a race. Now it's up to the details that are no less important than the basis of the method. Below I will give a graph of the game based on my understanding of the Tg method. And sorry for my English)

Can you please explaining some More, this is confusing.

Another test. It's too short to draw big conclusions about it, but that's how it is when you test something manually. But I think I played how jekbh76 described it as above. + 1 on a win and save the numbers that hit on the earlier cycle and keep the bet amount on them. Restart any plus. You need a big bankroll. I guess it can go deeper down, will it recover eventually? It can take some time before it goes up. Maybe I did something wrong last test or I was just a bit more lucky this time. Some way you can save the spins, but I can't find it..too much work to write them down manually.

What you can also do, and it's a little bit safer i think is to stop once First profit is reached and then retrack last 37 spins and play from there on until next First profit. Just a thought. This way the play sessions remain short and you can stop at anytime.

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 14, 05:21 AM 2018
Another test. It's too short to draw big conclusions about it, but that's how it is when you test something manually. But I think I played how jekbh76 described it as above. + 1 on a win and save the numbers that hit on the earlier cycle and keep the bet amount on them. Restart any plus. You need a big bankroll. I guess it can go deeper down, will it recover eventually? It can take some time before it goes up. Maybe I did something wrong last test or I was just a bit more lucky this time. Some way you can save the spins, but I can't find it..too much work to write them down manually.

Did you also bet the hottest from the second cycle with the hitted ones from the first?

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 14, 05:29 AM 2018
Did you also bet the hottest from the second cycle with the hitted ones from the first?

Yes I did. And when a win and in plus I restarted and retracked the last 37 spins.

Another Safe way to play this way is the following;
We start our bet when the first 3 peater Comes into play and we bet 1 unit on it. Most 3 pesters show up around spin 20-25. Everytime a new 3 peater is born we also place 1 unit on it. When the first cycle is over (37 spins) and None of your 3 peater has become. 4 peater and your in debt, we raise on All 3 pesters 1 unit. So the start of the 2nd cycle you Have 2 chips on all 3 pesters. As soon as one of your 3 peater becomes a 4 peater you Delete that number, we don't need that one anymore. We only play 3 to become 4 peaters. When after a hit your in profit you decrease All chips with 1 unit. It don't need that anymore and this way we Keep our bankroll in balance and Without to much presure.
Everytime a 3 peater is hit and it became a 4 peater we remove that number and continue for as Long as we like. You Will notice that you don't play too much numbers at once and you Will also See that you Will Have many hits before spin 105 (3rd cycle).
Will post a play session soon. Have fun in testing.
Keep in mind what Turbo said; a 4 peater can't be without becoming a 3 peater First.

what happened to 1  becoming 2 repeats becoming 3 repeats??

non the less GOOD WORK

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 14, 08:30 AM 2018
what happened to 1  becoming 2 repeats becoming 3 repeats??

You're right, but i choose 3s becoming 4s because i think it has the best balance. playing 1s becoming 2s will produce to much presure on your bankroll because you are playing alot of numbers at the same time. That same goes for 2s becoming 3s.
I found out that in the first 100 spins (105) there is a good hitrate for 3s becoming 4s and you only play a few numbers at the same time, because we delete the ones got hit. only 3s to 4s. and only raise after a cycle is done and in debt. and as soon as we reach a new plus, we reset the chip count to 1 again.

Quote from: keepontryin on Apr 14, 08:31 AM 2018
non the less GOOD WORK

thnx  :thumbsup:

I think it's good to keep down the numbers. I have started to test a 8-hitter to become a nine and maybe more. It take about 100 spins or more. The downside is the waiting time and when in plus you have to start from beginning. Else you would get the same number(s) to bet. I bet max 4 numbers. This is result. +29, +11, +22, +23,+30, +19, +24, +33, +2, +21, +18, +9 = +241. I will keep on testing this.

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 14, 09:00 AM 2018
I think it's good to keep down the numbers. I have started to test a 8-hitter to become a nine and maybe more. It take about 100 spins or more. The downside is the waiting time and when in plus you have to start from beginning. Else you would get the same number(s) to bet. I bet max 4 numbers. This is result. +29, +11, +22, +23,+30, +19, +24, +33, +2, +21, +18, +9 = +241. I will keep on testing this.

I really think that 8 or 9 numbers are the max turbo is playing at once, but lesser is always better. all above 9 numbers will hit our bank to hard.

I notice that quite often the first 8-hitter hit to become 9. It makes me wonder how it would perform flatbetting? Progressions can be scary, but so far haven't been down so much. Think highest bet was 2 units.

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 14, 09:55 AM 2018
I notice that quite often the first 8-hitter hit to become 9. It makes me wonder how it would perform flatbetting? Progressions can be scary, but so far haven't been down so much. Think highest bet was 2 units.

Don't know
Do you wait until you Will Have your 8peater or do you start much sooner.

I wait until there is a 8peater. Four more sessions were +28, +29, +22, +30. On the next I lost the focus on how to play it (don't have really good rules on how to play it) and I was down - 200 units. So I stopped and will have to set better  rules for it. Easier to lost focus on it when you don't play it on 37 numbers cycles or something similar. 

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 14, 09:55 AM 2018
I notice that quite often the first 8-hitter hit to become 9. It makes me wonder how it would perform flatbetting? Progressions can be scary, but so far haven't been down so much. Think highest bet was 2 units.

Lol....

Now where did i see this before?  :lol:

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 14, 05:21 AM 2018
Another test. It's too short to draw big conclusions about it, but that's how it is when you test something manually. But I think I played how jekbh76 described it as above. + 1 on a win and save the numbers that hit on the earlier cycle and keep the bet amount on them. Restart any plus. You need a big bankroll. I guess it can go deeper down, will it recover eventually? It can take some time before it goes up. Maybe I did something wrong last test or I was just a bit more lucky this time. Some way you can save the spins, but I can't find it..too much work to write them down manually.

I like your graph. Jigsaw graphs are good. What goes up must go down and ......VICE VERSA !  :thumbsup:

You remember TG's method.... bet any # that comes up. Add a unit on a hit. After a cycle take one unit of all our bets to start the next cycle.....gives us those jigsaw graphs too......if we could only measure the average DD.... Or can we ?  :thumbsup:

I was thinking,
What if we are all wrong on how Turbo is playing repeaters....
I once Read on a Forum that he mostly plays between 300 - 400 spins max per session.....
What if, he is using the First repeater that comes (or two) and use these for his entire session?
With a Special progression.
Otherwise why would you play so many spins?
As far as i know No one has seen or maybe someone but it's rare for a number to go Missing for More then 600 spins. I don't know about you, but i never Have.
Two numbers won't go away for 450 spins etc. And we All know that when a number has slept for so long it won't go Missing for so long again Right after that buy Most of the Times it will hit above expectation . If a good progression is used, one that we don't know this can result in an Always win session for Turbo!

Any thoughts?

Turbo can you day if i'm on the Right path? Thanks.

as far as I know, he initially plays everything, an takes off what didnt repeat. he uses a pos. progression on the hits

His graph always dips first. Thats the playing everything phase.

I dont think its playable in a live casino. you need a rebet button.

Quote from: Turner on Apr 25, 10:39 AM 2018
as far as I know, he initially plays everything, an takes off what didnt repeat. he uses a pos. progression on the hits

His graph always dips first. Thats the playing everything phase.

I dont think its playable in a live casino. you need a rebet button.

Ok, buy a dip doesn't Always Mean that he was playing everything. One or two numbers can also creates a dip in the graph.
And i don't think he is playing every number from the start. That Will burn your bankroll away very Easy, Trust me i've been there. Even when a number doesn't hit after the next cycle. Could be wrong tho.

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 25, 10:52 AM 2018
Ok, buy a dip doesn't Always Mean that he was playing everything. One or two numbers can also creates a dip in the graph.
And i don't think he is playing every number from the start. That Will burn your bankroll away very Easy, Trust me i've been there. Even when a number doesn't hit after the next cycle. Could be wrong tho.

just going off previous conversations Ive had with him

Quote from: Turner on Apr 25, 10:54 AM 2018
just going off previous conversations Ive had with him

I understand, and maybe it is duable, but you need a very big bankroll and a very Large Table limit to recover from this and to play like this. That can't Always win.
Let's say he gets one 2 repeaters in the First cycle , that won't repareren All the other numbers Have costed, and he needs to only bring the 2s intobthe next cycle, mmmm don't think he is playing like this. But we'll never know for sure.

Quote from: Turner on Apr 25, 10:39 AM 2018
as far as I know, he initially plays everything, an takes off what didnt repeat. he uses a pos. progression on the hits

His graph always dips first. Thats the playing everything phase.

I dont think its playable in a live casino. you need a rebet button.

Well it can be played in a real casino, i've done this also in the past. But only playing the 2+ hits and bring them into the new cycle . And every 2s that were formed in the second cycle and Delete the ones that didn't got hit in the 2nd cycle (numbers from the 1e)

Quote from: Turner on Apr 25, 10:54 AM 2018
just going off previous conversations Ive had with him

Well either he is lying or you didn't understand what he said in your conversation.
Because he said to a reply what he would do when 37 numbers came in 37 spins? His awnser was; that it didn't matter, because he wouldn't Have bet anything...........
There are More members Who can conform this. :thumbsup:

I said it a couple times already....

But maybe i should be more accurate.
Just choose a way to play repeaters. (Keep it simple , so not the complicated stuff). Play this in rx. Play sessions of 200/300 spins max.(realistic sessions). Play 1000 sessions. Yep its a bit of work. Now check the graphs. Check the ---> DD <--- . Now once you KNOW the average and maximum DD of your system..... cant you make it win ? I can. You could even say its like measuring variance  :thumbsup:


Now dont go doing something stupid like bringing 1k to stop at first profit ! So this means also check the average profit after you start to bet.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 25, 11:20 AM 2018Well either he is lying or you didn't understand what he said in your conversation.

well, it doesnt have to be either

It could be that he was doing something different when we spoke and I understood it. There is a full post on here what he did.

Quote from: denzie on Apr 15, 05:11 AM 2018
I like your graph. Jigsaw graphs are good. What goes up must go down and ......VICE VERSA !  :thumbsup:

You remember TG's method.... bet any # that comes up. Add a unit on a hit. After a cycle take one unit of all our bets to start the next cycle.....gives us those jigsaw graphs too......if we could only measure the average DD.... Or can we ?  :thumbsup:

You mean this one Turner ?  :)



Of course can start with 2s.... :thumbsup:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 25, 11:57 AM 2018
You mean this one Turner ?  :)



Of course can start with 2s.... :thumbsup:

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16250.0

Forgot to say you can do this with streets, lines, ....etc ,........

.....
.....
And sectors you create on the Wheel  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Turner on Apr 25, 11:55 AM 2018
well, it doesnt have to be either

It could be that he was doing something different when we spoke and I understood it. There is a full post on here what he did.

Understand.
And Turbo is also applying methods in Different ways.
What i said above about No betting Will be done when there isn't a repeat, and in your link he said this;

1) "Trigger"
Waiting for something to happen before betting is a waste of time.
There is no event that somehow signals what the future event will be.

From this i can Read that he bets from spin 1????
Now who's confused?

Quote from: denzie on Apr 25, 12:21 PM 2018
Forgot to say you can do this with streets, lines, ....etc ,........

.....
.....
And sectors you create on the Wheel  :thumbsup:

That maybe. But until we know what the biggest drawdown would be if we play like this, bet every number that comes and remove 1 unit on each after every cycle, we can't play this. Be don't k ow our bankroll must be.
And i think there Will be too many numbers to play before reaching a profit.

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 25, 12:32 PM 2018
That maybe. But until we know what the biggest drawdown would be if we play like this, bet every number that comes and remove 1 unit on each after every cycle, we can't play this. Be don't k ow our bankroll must be.
And i think there Will be too many numbers to play before reaching a profit.

Didn't say you should bet like that. Just saying to know the variance  :thumbsup:


Ask coderjoe

Quote from: denzie on Apr 25, 12:52 PM 2018
Didn't say you should bet like that. Just saying to know the variance  :thumbsup:

Ask coderjoe

@DENZIE
Sended you a pm den.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 25, 11:54 AM 2018
I said it a couple times already....

But maybe i should be more accurate.
Just choose a way to play repeaters. (Keep it simple , so not the complicated stuff). Play this in rx. Play sessions of 200/300 spins max.(realistic sessions). Play 1000 sessions. Yep its a bit of work. Now check the graphs. Check the ---> DD <--- . Now once you KNOW the average and maximum DD of your system..... cant you make it win ? I can. You could even say its like measuring variance  :thumbsup:


Now dont go doing something stupid like bringing 1k to stop at first profit ! So this means also check the average profit after you start to bet.  :thumbsup:

As much as i would Love to test like this, it would probably took me a year to complete. With 5 kids, were two of them needs Special trreatment and constant nursing, it is very difficult to do this. Maybe the awnser is play Every repeater until end of cycle and then remove All the unhit ones and decrease the chip amount on All, but like i said i don't sadly Have the Time not the Energy to test so much sessions to know the biggest drawdown etc. Wish i could, but lately it's hospital in and out and alot of uncertanty regarding the Health of one of our youngest Boys, future is uncertain for him. But i Hope i indeed find the awnser to how to play the repeaters, but there is More in Life and the Health of my kids is the Most important one. So unless someone could do this Large test, we May never know.

What means DD?

---

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 26, 02:41 AM 2018
What means DD?

DrawDown (how many units you are in - min.)

What I have tested on RX is something similar like you play jekhb76. I started with 2 peaters and started betted when they show up. When 3 peaters showed Up I put one more unit on them. But I kept the 2 peaters as well. But maybe like you say, starting with 3 peaters would be better. I can also think about starting with 8 or 9 peaters. On RX it don't take time. It's a waiting if you play on-line, but if you would always win, it's ok.

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 26, 02:45 AM 2018

---

DrawDown (how many units you are in - min.)

Thank you jekhb76. By the way, wish you the best both in family and play.

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 26, 02:51 AM 2018
Thank you jekhb76. By the way, wish you the best both in family and play.

Thanks.
But as you can See, i don't Have much Time to test things propaply.

Jekh, i hope youre not looking at roulette to pay hospital bills. With such a mindset and insufficient experience, you're more likely to worsen a financial situation. Roulette done right is profitable. But professional play is not suitable for most people.

Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 04:10 AM 2018
I've tested Turbo's repeater idea over a gazillion spins.  Unfortunately the results are exactly what probability predicts.

This of course leads me to question the validity of the results others have had using various free mode betting modules.

Rather than test the modules for fitness (free play games), it makes far more sense to just look at basic probability/math to see how the accuracy of the prediction could possibly be improved in the random game... by attempting to exploit the "repeaters."   Turbo says that "math beats a math game," but can't seem to provide any math to support his idea.  The real math says that there's just one or two too many pockets in order for his idea to work in the random game.

Sooo then...where's the logic?  If basic probability says it doesn't work, then why should it???

1.  Is it because past spins reach foward in time to influence future spins?
2.  Is it because the numbers have become self aware?
3. Magic?


-The General

Hi General,
If you look at any system based on the repeaters you are correct in saying that this method can't overcome the math that in 37 spins you could get 37 (or 38) unique outcomes. This would be game over for a system that uses progression betting 8 numbers for say 24 spins.

But if you look at what we are trying to achieve here its not to get 100% win rate that we will get a repeat of ONE of our 8 numbers within 24 spins. What we need is a win rate of  repeat of 1 in 24 spins 7 out of 8 times. So we should look at the wins in terms of 100 games played. So if we caqn overcome the losses with more wins to cover the loss and a few more to get into profit then we have a winning system.

So the question is what repeater based method can we deploy that will avoid the sleepers and find the repeats enough times to overcome the house edge?

cheers,
Ricky

Quote from: Steve on Apr 26, 05:15 AM 2018
Jekh, i hope youre not looking at roulette to pay hospital bills. With such a mindset and insufficient experience, you're more likely to worsen a financial situation. Roulette done right is profitable. But professional play is not suitable for most people.

True words and never play with money you can not afford to lose!

Quote from: boyd30 on Apr 26, 02:49 AM 2018I can also think about starting with 8 or 9 peaters. On RX it don't take time. It's a waiting if you play on-line, but if you would always win, it's ok.

Hmmm where i see that before  :thumbsup:

Quote from: denzie on Apr 26, 09:11 AM 2018
Hmmm where i see that before  :thumbsup:

What about the progression?

Quote from: Steve on Apr 26, 05:15 AM 2018
Jekh, i hope youre not looking at roulette to pay hospital bills. With such a mindset and insufficient experience, you're more likely to worsen a financial situation. Roulette done right is profitable. But professional play is not suitable for most people.

No, i won't Steve.

Quote from: ZERO on Apr 26, 05:56 AM 2018
True words and never play with money you can not afford to lose!

I never play with my own money.

Quote from: Ricky on Apr 26, 05:41 AM 2018
Hi General,
If you look at any system based on the repeaters you are correct in saying that this method can't overcome the math that in 37 spins you could get 37 (or 38) unique outcomes. This would be game over for a system that uses progression betting 8 numbers for say 24 spins.

But if you look at what we are trying to achieve here its not to get 100% win rate that we will get a repeat of ONE of our 8 numbers within 24 spins. What we need is a win rate of  repeat of 1 in 24 spins 7 out of 8 times. So we should look at the wins in terms of 100 games played. So if we caqn overcome the losses with more wins to cover the loss and a few more to get into profit then we have a winning system.

So the question is what repeater based method can we deploy that will avoid the sleepers and find the repeats enough times to overcome the house edge?

cheers,
Ricky

The way i See it, Turbo is meaning that using math (calculation) and the Right betselection and the Right money management, he knows that he Always Will be in profit before spin 500.
This can indeed be calculated. How many numbers do you Max bet? What progression is nessesary to meet this finishline in Time? How many hits do i need? Etc. I'm sure that he has calculated every possible combination there is to win All the Time.
How he does it, we never know, unless we do the math ourselfs. And that's the hardest part.
I Just can't believe that he bets every spin and every number All the Time, it Just can't. That one we can rule out.
If did a little test this afternoon. I played every number that came from spin one using 1/5/25 progression sometimes even 50, at First things were ok, but before i knew it i was down over 5000 units. I can't believe that he would risk that kind of money.
So that one is out.
Playing only on the repeaters is also not possible with 1/5/25 and Delete once a number gets hit on value 25. It is a better option then the First one, but that one can go very deep as wel. I've seen More then 3500 in drawdown with this at my early repeaters search.
So that won't work either. You can ofcourse get luck and win a while playing like this, but the RFH is Always around the corner. And acording to Turbo, that won't happen to him, because he can't loose.
Does he bet on repeaters and use their expectation ? Could be. Only a few repeaters All the way? Could be. Same repeaters All the Time and Make math use their expectation ? Could be.

Could be, is the furtherst we have ever been in the last couple of years.
Why, because we are not good in math? Could be. Because we are thinking to difficult? Could be. We have a treasure map in our hands, but we don't know how x Marks the spot looks like? Could be. Because we can't understand that ramdom has limits, but we can't See it, because we can't believe it? Could be. Because we can't See that 1+1= 2? Could be.
Because many of us Have driven Turbo away from us, by Always trying a way to proof to him, why his System can't work and Make a fool of him? Could be.
Would he helped us further if we didn't acuse him of everything regarding his method, and Always goin' agains him instead of Just asking if he  would please want to help us More, because we don't understand? Could be.

Well, enough about could be. :yawn:

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 26, 01:57 PM 2018uld he helped us further if we didn't acuse him of everything regarding his method, and Always goin' agains him instead of Just asking if he  would please want to help us More, because we don't understand?

Ask winkel, see what some on here said to his method. Theres more to come in GUT, but he'll not have there resentment again; so no more on GUT, I guess no more from TG

Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 26, 01:57 PM 2018
Because many of us Have driven Turbo away from us,

Yes go away from me you evil turbo  >:D

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 26, 02:25 PM 2018
Ask winkel, see what some on here said to his method. Theres more to come in GUT, but he'll not have there resentment again; so no more on GUT, I guess no more from TG

Winkel Just showed us the basics of Gut, not the whole Picture. And he did Help Out alot until someone tried to sell and did so to some of our members his ebook, where he would get All credits for and not winkel.

Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 26, 02:38 PM 2018
Yes go away from me you evil turbo  >:D

This is what i Mean, why can't you Just react like a normal adult, if you are? Probably not, otherwise you wouldn't Express yourself the way you do on many Occasions.
Too bad i'm not moderator otherwise we would Have had a few members less i can asure you.

Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 26, 02:38 PM 2018
Yes go away from me you evil turbo  >:D

careful the all seeing eye watching  >:D

Would have been a nice session for Turbo, if he does play like this.
Again, just a though, no fact.

What i did was the following:

1st Cycle: Betting every repeater that came in, up until spin 35. (flatbet)

From spin 36 upto spin 420 i would play only the repeaters that came in the first cycle.
Progression i used was +1/-1 according the numbers std deviation.
After every cycle, i looked if a number didn't show up (below expectation), showed only once (on expectation) and when it showed above expectation. (2 and above).
When one of my numbers showed below expect. i would raise that number with 1 unit.
When one of my numbers showed on expect. i would do nothing, and keep the value the same as in the last cycle.
When one of my numbers showd above expect. i would decrease his value with 1 unit.

Is this how turbo plays? don't know. it showed its ups and downs but had a good profit at spin 420.

Again, i played the same numbers i caught as a repeater in the first cycle, and played them all the way up to the end.
any thoughts?

My thoughts are, when you are playing like the above session and you know how many numbers you are gonna play with for the entire session, you can calculate, how many hits you need to reach profit. or ?

Quote from: denzie on Apr 04, 08:02 AM 2018(But only 15 would won)

No Den, #20 is in top3, win