@ turbo

[TurboGenius]

You cant compare stock charts. Stocks arent random. RNG is.

It shows clearly the results of something working or not working over time.
And no, you wouldn't invest a moment in something that roller coasters into choas, but you certainly would if it produced results that my charts show. It's ok, you can say it.

When you can use very broad betting limits for progression, its not surprising.

I clearly and obviously don't use those broad limits and stay within normal table limits. If I didn't, my charts would look as insane as theirs. Instead it's a steady uphill climb, predictable and reliable without a single losing session. But no credit to me, I get it.
Since you don't believe it can be done - you don't believe anyone can do it... therefore
you don't believe I did it. That's fine. Proof is what it is, I don't control how people react to it.

[TurboGenius]

Turbo is NOT a scammer and he is NOT a compulsive liar.  You can't call him that. That's too much, over the top!
He's just been snookered by an online game.  He means well.  He and I and others on the forum are kind of playing a game of banter and attacking each other's messages and methods.  Attacking the messenger is too much though.

There are a lot of people that feel the same way when they test their systems.  They feel they have the holy grail until they realize that they've overlooked a programming bug or have accidentally curve fit their results.

Turbo is a good guy and is not some kind of scammer.

Ahh, so you "defend" me so that in the same post you can be condescending.
Typical "you"... thinking you are somehow superior yet in reality aren't even on the same level as me. At one time you were.
It's funny that I'm told that I have the ego problem, yet you can't resist jumping
in for a pinch of attention at any possible moment. Meanwhile your contribution
to the forums is 0 - if I weren't here I'm positive you would have nothing to say.
The fact that I'm right seems to really get you and Steve worked up. Silly isn't it ?
It's not hard to say someone is right and that you're clearly wrong, try it.
Use a mirror and say it to yourself a few times and then try it out on the keyboard.
It'll work wonders.

So the kid in class waits for the teacher to leave and says... "That guy is ok I guess.. he's cool and all but I don't think he knows what he's talking about, 'cause I'm way smarter than he is" to everyone in the room. Just strange if you ask me.

[Steve]

It shows clearly the results of something working or not working over time.

Yes, but it doesnt show WHY something is working. I already explained why.

And no, you wouldn't invest a moment in something that roller coasters into choas

Yes I would. I already do. My trading bot has high volume trades and exploits volatility.

but you certainly would if it produced results that my charts show

Sure but again, your chart doesnt reveal the WHY.

I clearly and obviously don't use those broad limits and stay within normal table limits

How is it clear and obvious? You said you use aggressive progression. If that was the case, you'd have strong ups and downs. Because you have small increments, it's clear your approach is to increase from previous bankroll, then reset.

Instead it's a steady uphill climb, predictable and reliable without a single losing session. But no credit to me, I get it.

Yes anyone can do that with a mild progression as explained above.

Since you don't believe it can be done - you don't believe anyone can do it... therefore you don't believe I did it.

I can see what you've done. It was done on Parx and RS, and I explained how its no big feat. Beat MPR or another fair and realistic game, then its a different story.

Proof is what it is, I don't control how people react to it.

Proof of what exactly? That you can beat Parx and RS and achieve similar bankrolls to other players?

[Steve]

The fact that I'm right seems to really get you and Steve worked up

Know what works me up? Stupidity and ignorance. Being blind to facts and verification of those facts, right in front of people's noses. But still they cant see it.

I couldn't care less (<-- see??) if you were winning millions. Great for you. My interest in responding to your claims is so people aren't misled. I dont want to see flat Earthers running around. I would like to see people progress forward. And it starts with simple concepts, simple tests, basic logic.

[TurboGenius]

It also takes the ability to accept being wrong, and accepting that
there just might be ways that you don't know of.
Instead of assuming people are misleading and lying, which is the initial reaction
of course... but if there's no ability to alter that way of thinking, you can't move forward at all - you'll just forever believe there is no way to win that doesn't involve typical AP.

I know for a fact this pisses off the so-called "elite" AP crowd, that's always been clear and obvious.
I'd be mad too if my options were to hunt down bias wheels, take insane amounts of data and have people track numbers and hope to hell the wheel isn't taken offline and all that time and effort is wasted (no, they aren't all over the place to exploit - they are a needle in a haystack).
Or the option is to covertly sneak a computer into the casino (that no one says doesn't work, of course they do.) - and then attempt to win that way without being caught or detected,
or the option is to chart dealers and try to work out their signature over time and knowing that's not very reliable as they can combat that easily.
All these things are great and work - but it takes absurd measures to accomplish.
Anyone who does accomplish this is not going to like whatever I have to say.

Now some jackass posts on forums that he can beat ANY wheel, and any RNG using math - of course I'll get stones thrown at me for that. The only people that do that though are the people who depend on their difficult ways to win. How dare someone go around telling people they can WIN and show them steps to accomplish that.
I'd be angry too, I'd call a person like that a liar - misleading and probably some other vulgar names... it's completely understandable.
Then as General would do - post and make it appear that "oh he's just making a mistake". As if after decades and decades of study and testing I'll just "oops" and miss something that shows I was entirely wrong all along. It's a lame attempt to discredit what I say and insult me - but from where he's standing, it's impossible that would be insulted. Think about it.
Unreal.

[TurboGenius]

I dont want to see flat Earthers running around.

Wow, what a topic lol.
It shows though that you don't accept reality and math as well, which is fine.
A photon heading towards Earth would see the earth as flat (actually 15 meters thick).
We don't see it as flat because we are on it and moving at the same speed as the Earth.
You assume that since this is how we see it - that's the only truth there is.
Yet to the photon or anyone moving towards the Earth at nearly the speed of light - the earth is indeed almost flat - this is proven with math and science and calculations.
There can be more than one answer to a question, not just the one you witness.
Science has proven that speed, distance and time are all connected, but you would
argue all day with the photon that the earth is round and be only 1/2 right.
Never mind, that is way off topic but it's fact. Facts aren't relevant to most people.
If someone is ON the earth and says the earth is flat according to their observation of it - then they are clearly ignorant and should be told so, I agree.
But that doesn't mean there aren't circumstances when it can be observed as flat from a different perspective. ugh my head hurts.

[TurboGenius]

.

[Steve]

It also takes the ability to accept being wrong, and accepting that
there just might be ways that you don't know of.

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong, if I'm wrong.

What you're not understanding is I understand your logic and mistakes. They are not small and questionable mistakes. They are glaringly obvious, but only to someone who actually understands of course.

Imagine someone told you 1+1=5, and their proof was full of holes and contradictions. Then you showed them.... look, 1 apple plus 1 apple gives us TWO apples, not 5.

Then their response was "oh you just cant admit being wrong". Then all you can do is say "well, you're lost. You've got no idea".

The difference here is the logic is a bit more complicated. But the basics of ignorance are the same.

there just might be ways that you don't know of.

I'm sure there are. But repeaters is not it. It has been so incredibly tried and tested by myself and others. I'm not going into that again.

Instead of assuming people are misleading and lying, which is the initial reaction of course... but if there's no ability to alter that way of thinking, you can't move forward at all - you'll just forever believe there is no way to win that doesn't involve typical AP.

No Turbo, read the start of this and the flat Earth thread. I took it all seriously and approached with an open mind. I asked you, and flat Earthers, to prove their hypothesis. I did not come into this with my mind made up. I gave you, and the flat Earthers a fair chance. And in both cases, it reached the point where very clearly it was just hot air. I had an open mind because I know how ignorance works. If your mind is already made up, you reject all the facts. I see it all the time throughout my life. So don't tell me my mind is closed. The simple fact is every piece of information indicated your system is not what you claim.

Remember I went into all this with a high opinion of you. So I was surprised when I saw you had no idea what you were talking about.

And I am not saying traditional AP is the only way. how many times have I explained this. I'm not doing it again.

I know for a fact this pisses off the so-called "elite" AP crowd, that's always been clear and obvious.

No, it's the people who understand basic math and probability. You dont need to be an AP to be logical. And it's not about "pissing off" people. It's more about pulling our hair out because people overlooking very basic stuff and calling the Earth flat. Yeah it's frustrating. It's like trying to reason with a bowling ball.

I'd be mad too if my options were to hunt down bias wheels, take insane amounts of data and have people track numbers and hope to hell the wheel isn't taken offline and all that time and effort is wasted (no, they aren't all over the place to exploit - they are a needle in a haystack).

Unless you've actually done modern bias analysis, you wouldn't know it's not quite like that. Bias is it not my preferred method, but it is more about narrowing down wheels with what you see and hear first. It is not about unrealistic amounts of data. It is still viable, and I know this because I know players who still do it. But still there are much better methods.

Or the option is to covertly sneak a computer into the casino (that no one says doesn't work, of course they do.) - and then attempt to win that way without being caught or detected,

Well I can make easy money, legally. So I do. It shouldn't bother you. Well not easy for development, but thats done now.

or the option is to chart dealers and try to work out their signature over time and knowing that's not very reliable as they can combat that easily.

Clearly you've only seen very basic approaches.

All these things are great and work - but it takes absurd measures to accomplish.

Not really. More time consuming, more absurd, and less profitable is a 9-5 job. Work all day to make someone else rich, get paid peanuts, and the tax man takes about a third. Do that for 50 years, then retire old and grey, go to a home and spend what little money you saved for retirement. No thankyou.

Now some jackass posts on forums that he can beat ANY wheel, and any RNG using math - of course I'll get stones thrown at me for that.

Initially yes. But smarter people will at least hear your logic first, before deciding if what you say is true or false.

The only people that do that though are the people who depend on their difficult ways to win

No, it's anyone with understanding of the claims, the contradictions and the logic. You don't need to be an AP for that. Is a mathematician an AP? How about a physicist? A statistic student?The list goes on. Practically the whole professional and educated world. The people who dont get it are the gamblers who dont understand, and dont know how to test properly.

I'd be angry too, I'd call a person like that a liar - misleading and probably some other vulgar names... it's completely understandable.

Angry why? I'm not angry. At most i'm frustrated when some people just dont get it, even when it's all there on their nose.

Then as General would do - post and make it appear that "oh he's just making a mistake". As if after decades and decades of study and testing I'll just "oops" and miss something that shows I was entirely wrong all along.

You've made numerous clear mistakes. They have been pointed out before numerous times, but it is not being understood.

[The General]

Now some jackass posts on forums that he can beat ANY wheel, and any RNG using math - of course I'll get stones thrown at me for that. The only people that do that though are the people who depend on their difficult ways to win. How dare someone go around telling people they can WIN and show them steps to accomplish that.

Turbo,

Unlike you we actually understand the math, and shall we say...been there...done that..long long ago in a galaxy far far away. When someone like me tells you that you're wasting your time chasing dead ends, it's because I can already instantaneously see all the angles, the flaws and the math that proves it doesn't work.  I'm sorry if you're a little slow to the game, but THEMZ JUST THE FACTS.    

If you don't believe us, then post your system on the wizardofvegas forum.  You'll get some truly unbiased opinions by some other very well educated people.  However, I doubt that you have the nerve to post there, and I suspect you won't like their responses. 

Wow, what a topic lol.
It shows though that you don't accept reality and math as well, which is fine.

When have you ever posted math?  That's the biG problem...you don't comprehend it.   

I sure hope you're just playing a game and don't believe all of the nonsense that you've written.    (And NO I don't think that you're some kind of scammer.)

[Steve]

It shows though that you don't accept reality and math as well, which is fine.

What math exactly? That you can win but only when your bet selection is random and 1 in 37?

A photon heading towards Earth would see the earth as flat (actually 15 meters thick).

I wouldnt know. I'm not a photon. Neither are you, as far as I know.

We don't see it as flat because we are on it and moving at the same speed as the Earth. You assume that since this is how we see it - that's the only truth there is.

I have never seen a round Earth. what I do have is my own observations, which support the notion that Earth is a sphere. I need only look at a full moon and assume our planet is probably also round. That's just one of many examples. Dont get me into a topic about why I believe the Earth is round and not flat.

Yet to the photon or anyone moving towards the Earth at nearly the speed of light - the earth is indeed almost flat - this is proven with math and science and calculations.

Is this what you heard, or found out for yourself? Your own observations, or someone elses?

Science has proven that speed, distance and time are all connected, but you would argue all day with the photon that the earth is round and be only 1/2 right.

It's strange you talk of science, then say things like "math beats a math game", when the math clearly demonstrates if spins are random, repeaters change nothing.

We are going in circles again. Turbo there's enough information on this thread from anyone with at least half a brain to decide what to believe. And in the end if you are right and we are wrong, who cares - go win a fortune and make idiots of us.

[The General]

It's strange you talk of science, then say things like "math beats a math game", when the math clearly demonstrates if spins are random, repeaters change nothing.

Steve,

I've never seen him post any math, ever.  Have you?

That's why I'm always amused by that comment.

[Steve]

No I haven't. Except things like 3 is after 2, 4 is after 3. Also 24 numbers in 37 spins. But nothing that would suggest the odds are changed from 1 in 37. And if its at 1 in 37, then it doesnt matter what he bets. Its still just 1 in 37.

[Steve]

The glaringly contradiction I keep coming back to is he claims to win when spins are completely random. By definition, that means 1 in 37 average win rate. And it makes no difference what numbers won in the past, the repeaters, cold numbers or whatever.

But still... he wins every time.

I just dont buy it.

If he had won large amounts on a realistic simulator, it would have my attention if there were over 10,000 spins and lots of bets. But instead we have "games" with unrealistic betting limits, free bonuses etc. Where there are lots of players doing even better.

[Steve]

Even if you take his words like 2 after 1, 3 after 2 etc..

How can you use that? You can't bet on the past. You are still stuck with the future accuracy which is 1 in 37.

And just because a number won once or twice, you still have 1 in 37 in the future.

Not only is the math absent, so is the logic.

[jekhb76]

Even if you take his words like 2 after 1, 3 after 2 etc..

How can you use that? You can't bet on the past. You are still stuck with the future accuracy which is 1 in 37.

And just because a number won once or twice, you still have 1 in 37 in the future.

Not only is the math absent, so is the logic.

Good morning Steve,
I know what you're Point is, but there Will Always be numbers that hit More above expected then other numbers.
It's up to us to be on that number once it's Starting to seperate itself from the other Group.