The magical ether, does it exist?
(link:://microexplosion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/magic-trick.jpg)
Many of you believe that past spins somehow reach forward and effect the chances of winning on the next spin and the next series of spins. In other words, that each spin is not independent.
If you are one of the believers, which of the known four basic forces do you feel are at work? Or do you believe that there could be a magical fifth force, such as the magical ether. Which force is it that's reaching from the past and into the future and changing the number of pockets on the wheel. (After all if the number of pockets on the wheel remain the same from one spin to the next, why should the odds change?)
1. The Strong Force?
2. The Electromagnetic Force?
3. The Weak Force?
4. The Gravitational Force?
5. The Magical Ether?
How does the spooky stuff work?
Are the casinos aware it?
What is the supposed cause of the dependency???
(link:://cinefantastiqueonline.com/wp-content/uploads/time-machine-taylor.png)
PLease noTe thAt thiS is a tHrEad iN aN ofF tOpiC arEa.
It's oddly on-topic though lol
I would say that roulette is random.
Each spin is independent from the last.
There's no equality, more like a chaos within restraints - but never equality.
One number can't show up 38 times.
38 numbers can't all show up once in 38 spins.
Hot numbers tend to stay hot, cold numbers tend to stay cold. *TurboNewton's First Law of Random*
Contrary to what is believed by most people (the opposite).
Triggers, waiting, entry and stop/exit points are useless to something working or not.
Negative progressions are evil - positive progressions (when the player HAS an advantage is important).
((with no advantage, all progressions might as well be negative ones)
So really none of those listed 'guide' me in what numbers I play.
Although TurboNewton's First Law of Random isn't too well known yet - it will be at some point
:girl_to:
Quote from: The General on May 08, 04:09 PM 2016
1. The Strong Force?
2. The Electromagnetic Force?
3. The Weak Force?
4. The Gravitational Force?
5. The Magical Ether?
Oh you really think you are the only one who reads this stuff dont you.
How can us dumbo's know about classical field theory?
Number 5 is stupid and you missed the word Nuclear out of 2 of them
Its a ridiculous attempt to patronize people
Nice try
QuoteNumber 5 is stupid and you missed the word Nuclear out of 2 of them
"Nuclear" isn't required, as it's implied already.
In chemistry, the reason we could study how materials behave is because they exist, holding together by some kind of forces.
In fact all known forces (or interactions) in the universe can be grouped into four basic types. Below lists these forces in the order of decreasing strength.
1. The Strong Force
This force is responsible for binding of nuclei. It is the dominant one in reactions and decays of most of the fundamental particles. This force is so strong that it binds and stabilize the protons of similar charges within a nucleus. However, it is very short range. No such force will be felt beyond the order of 1 fm (femtometer or 10-15 m).
2. The Electromagnetic Force
This is the force which exists between all particles which have an electric charge. For example, electrons (negative charge) bind with nucleus of an atom, due to the presence of protons (positive charge). The force is long range, in principle extending over infinite distance. However, the strength can quickly diminishes due to shielding effect. Many everyday experiences such as friction and air resistance are due to this force. This is also the resistant force that we feel, for example, when pressing our palm against a wall. This is originated from the fact that no two atoms can occupy the same space. However, its strength is about 100 times weaker within the range of 1 fm, where the strong force dominates. But because there is no shielding within the nucleus, the force can be cumulative and can compete with the strong force. This competition determines the stability structure of nuclei.
3. The Weak Force This force is responsible for nuclear beta decay and other similar decay processes involving fundamental particles. The range of this force is smaller than 1 fm and is 10-7 weaker than the strong force. Nevertheless, it is important in understanding the behavior of fundamental particles.
4. The Gravitational Force
This is the force that holds us onto the Earth. It could be important in our daily life, but on the scale of atomic world it is of negligible or no importance at all. Gravitational force is cumulative and extended to infinity. It exists whenever there is matter. Your body is experiencing a gravitaional pull with, say, your computer (or anything close to you or as far away as stars and galaxies) but the effect is so small you will never sense it. However, you can sense the gravitaional pull with the Earth (that is, your weight) due to the cumulative effect of billions of billions of the atoms made up your body with those atoms of the Earth. This means that the larger the body (contain more matter), the stronger the force. But on the scale of individual particles, the force is extremely small, only in the order of 10-38 times that of the strong force source link:://sciencepark.etacude.com/particle/forces.php
Please note that this is an off topic area. So your insults...
are perfectly accePtabLe. ;)
Quote from: Turner on May 08, 05:23 PM 2016So your insults...
You typed that quick lol
what insults? You think magical ether isnt stupid?
I think the "magical ether" is fitting. So many people like to claim that past spins influence future spins, but check logic at the door. In this thread, they can put forth their best argument or insult (towards me) if they so choose. I wouldn't take any of it too seriously though. Let's keep the thread fun. ;)
(link:://i.ytimg.com/vi/qtzc1cBsrRs/maxresdefault.jpg)
couldnt you find a cut and paste for Magical ether?
Quote from: TurboGenius on May 08, 04:50 PM 2016
I would say that roulette is random.
Each spin is independent from the last.
Hot numbers tend to stay hot, cold numbers tend to stay cold. *TurboNewton's First Law of Random*
Contrary to what is believed by most people (the opposite).
Turbo, those statements are contradictory. If hot numbers tend to stay hot then you can look at past spins and if some are "hot" you're then entitled to bet that they will continue to stay hot. Ditto for cold numbers.
That means there is a dependency. Funny how the General didn't notice that, him being an expert on logic. ;)
And cut and paste.... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Turner on May 08, 06:28 PM 2016
And cut and paste.... :thumbsup:
Gotta say. I loved that.
Quote from: Bayes on May 08, 06:15 PM 2016
Turbo, those statements are contradictory. If hot numbers tend to stay hot then you can look at past spins and if some are "hot" you're then entitled to bet that they will continue to stay hot. Ditto for cold numbers.
That means there is a dependency. Funny how the General didn't notice that, him being an expert on logic. ;)
I'm not so sure about that, but for all I know you could be right.
I don't look at past spins when I sit down to play - that would be useless to me.
I could ask the guy next to me "Hey, any hot numbers ?" and he could say "yeah ! 30 and 21 !"
But.. So what ? They more than likely won't be my hot numbers - or they could be, but I won't bet on them based on what happened before I started playing.
Now - on the other hand, I sit down and play 10 because 10 just showed up (is it a hot number ?...hmm. It has a better chance of being one than a number that hasn't shown up yet)
"""Dear Lord - please make sure people read that last line and scribble it down on a piece of paper so in 10 years they can jump out of bed yelling "OH SHIT ! I GET IT NOW !" - thank you. Signed TurboGenius"""
So now 10 shows again and I win (because I was betting on it already) ((see what I did there)).
I stay on it but I'm not betting 9 or 31 or 0 because they aren't hot (for me.... maybe for the guy at the table before me...sure).
So - am I playing past numbers ? No - not if 'past' means before I started my session.
Am I betting higher based on a number's past performance since I started playing ? Yeah....
It's TurboNewton's First Law of Random so to do anything else would be silly.
Great thread General - lets keep it civil - which I hope means no hitting below the belt..... 'cause I have PLENTY below the belt and that's just not fair to hit me there.
Cheers.
I believe what Turbo is trying to say, is that his hot numbers have a greater chance of being more than just a hot number. Since he's playing the live wheel and dealer, there's an ever so slightly greater chance that his numbers could be bettererer than random since they recently hitteded and because they hitz more than the other numberzz... Meaning unlike the other random goats often chosen by the playerz that believe in dependence, his numbers could be mightly powerful, wonderful, wisely chosen, biased numbers that could be exploiting a defective wheel!
Well done Mr. Turbo! Well done! Bravo!
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc
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Quote from: TurboGenius on May 08, 06:41 PM 2016I could ask the guy next to me "Hey, any hot numbers ?" and he could say "yeah ! 30 and 21 !"
But.. So what ? They more than likely won't be my hot numbers - or they could be, but I won't bet on them based on what happened before I started playing.
Wise thought turbo. I had a thought that struck me.
I come to AC. I see my idol sitting next to the wheel playing numbers. ( Oh yeah, that's you if not for those wisdom and interest during the old days ofc will I be playing roulette? ). I ask politely what is hot and you as always helps me with a few numbers. I keep betting on them. Will I win or will I lose? If am winning, why? They were not my numbers, they were yours. Ouch! Too much of a deep thought, brain is swelling.
Quote from: Priyanka on May 08, 08:57 PM 2016
Wise thought turbo. I had a thought that struck me.
I come to AC. I see my idol sitting next to the wheel playing numbers. ( Oh yeah, that's you if not for those wisdom and interest during the old days ofc will I be playing roulette? ). I ask politely what is hot and you as always helps me with a few numbers. I keep betting on them. Will I win or will I lose? If am winning, why? They were not my numbers, they were yours. Ouch! Too much of a deep thought, brain is swelling.
You won't win on my hot numbers, no. You "could" if they remain hot of course - but you could also be missing out on your own personal list of hot numbers that began appearing as you sat down. :)
Naked hot numbers are sometimes just random hot numbers. Actually, more often than not, they're just randomly hot.
Here's a better way for the gambler to pick hot numbers if you're a bit lazy and playing a live wheel. (Remember when I said think like an engineer? Well, here' an example.)
Sometimes when the ball leaves the track, drops down onto the apron and then rides the number tape on the rotor, it will follow a repetitive path. Especially the balls that drop in low and ride the number tape for one half or one full revolution before striking the frets.
Track the first point of first impact that the ball will make on the frets. Meaning, record the number that the ball first strikes, not just where it lands. These low orbit impact points tend to clump on some wheels because of ridges that form on delaminating numbers tapes, and because of oil, grease, dirt and grime. Some wheels have these ridges from day one when they arrive in the casino.
After you've collected and graphed the strike points, you'll have a much better idea as to which sections of the wheel the ball is most likely to try on. When picking your hot numbers, knowing which numbers have the best opportunity to try on the ball because of these ridges and warps can really help you get the edge. Again, in order to get the most out of it, you want to look for the wheels where the ball is coming in flat... in a very low orbit decay pattern... riding the number tape on a relatively high percentage of spins, or traveling in and out of the back of the pocket repeatedly during each spin.
Don't be lazy, track about 100 strike points before you play. Sort by wheel spin direction. It doesn't take long. It's fast, it's efficient, and you can actually get an edge.
Going the extra distance: Plot the ball scatter yardage in pockets. Measure how far the ball bounces after it first impacts the wheel. If you collect about 100 spins, you'll have an idea as to how far you need to look form the dominant strike points to find the best hot numbers.
Best of luck,
-The General
A little more on the "ridges" and "warps" on the rotor number tape. The basically act as ball trip points. Lots of wheels have them.
(link:://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23100000/Irina-Sheik-hot-women-23117745-1024-1463.jpg)
Hot women are not random hot women. They are hot for a reason.
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ROFLOL !!!
Quote from: TurboGenius on May 08, 06:41 PM 2016
I'm not so sure about that, but for all I know you could be right.
I don't look at past spins when I sit down to play - that would be useless to me.
I could ask the guy next to me "Hey, any hot numbers ?" and he could say "yeah ! 30 and 21 !"
But.. So what ? They more than likely won't be my hot numbers - or they could be, but I won't bet on them based on what happened before I started playing.
Now - on the other hand, I sit down and play 10 because 10 just showed up (is it a hot number ?...hmm. It has a better chance of being one than a number that hasn't shown up yet)
I'm not understanding this at all. What you're saying is that the past spins that
you have collected have a greater significance than those that someone else has. In other words what's "hot" for you isn't necessarily "hot" for me. Why would the other guy's numbers be "useless" to you? either the numbers are hot or they aren't. And suppose someone else joins the table after you've started betting and says "hey Turbo!, mind if I bet on your numbers?", do you then reply, "not at all, but don't expect win anything, only I'll win because they're
my numbers!".
And regarding the independence debate, from the fact that every pocket on the wheel is present each spin ("sampling with replacement" as it's called in probabability theory), it doesn't necessarily follow that outcomes are independent. Independence means no "regularity" in the outcomes - outcomes could be regular in some sense and yet "sampling with replacement" is also true. An example? There are 2 dealers who alternate every 30 spins and have very different styles (they also use different balls). In that case, it could very well be the case that there is a measurable regularity in the outcomes. I can think of other examples. "Proof" is often no more than a lack of imagination (someone said that, but can't remember who it was).
What about the part on DUE
Quote from: nottophammer on May 09, 06:16 AM 2016
What about the part on DUE
Activate defends shields :twisted:
Quote from: nottophammer on May 09, 06:16 AM 2016
What about the part on DUE
Good question. The gambler's fallacy is a logical fallacy which means in committing it you're
contradicting yourself. This is the fallacious gambler's argument set out so you can see the premises and the conclusion:
1. I'm playing on a fair roulette wheel.
2. 10 reds in a row have come up.
3. This sequence of reds is increasingly unlikely.
Therefore, the next spin is more likely to be black than red.
Now, a "fair" wheel implies that outcomes are both independent and unbiased (there is no regularity in the outcomes and each outcome has an equal chance). The contradiction, and therefore the fallacy, lies in the conclusion which implies that outcomes are
not independent. It involves a failure to understand that fairness implies independence, and the result is a contradiction.
But, you can resolve the contradiction by challenging premise 1. Maybe the wheel isn't fair? If that's the case, there is no contradiction. That's why it's not a fallacy to argue, as the General does, that betting on hot numbers is a good bet. The wheel may not be fair, in which case, bet on numbers which are hitting the most or are above expectation. On the other hand, betting on numbers that are DUE is irrational - the absence of something happening is not evidence that it is about to occur!
The point is, unless you make your argument explicit, you can't assume that someone is committing the gambler's fallacy simply because they use past spins to predict future spins.
A question: You collect spins from your local casino and observe that runs of 10 or more reds don't come up nearly as often as theory predicts, so next time you see 9 reds in a row, you bet black.
Are you committing the gambler's fallacy?
Past spins ARE connected to future spins, but not in the way most gamblers assume.
For example, 9 reds in a row doesnt mean black is due. But it may be an indicator of physical bias, in which case red is the better bet. There must always be a physical reason for an outcome. Everthing is cause and effect.
Each spin is an indpendent event, but with shared variables from previous spins. So past spins do give clues to future spins.
Right. Whos the c*** that gave me an extra negative karma?
I'll find you...
(yes Im kidding)
How I can give that "karma" ?
Is this smiting and applauding?
Yes
Quote from: Bayes on May 09, 08:11 AM 2016A question: You collect spins from your local casino and observe that runs of 10 or more reds don't come up nearly as often as theory predicts, so next time you see 9 reds in a row, you bet black.
Good afternoon sir
Why in examples is it always red/black.
Why not collect 10 spins, you know from previous game play, that in the next 10 spins 1 of the previous 10 numbers on average repeats, so if 9 spins have past is it time to bet the last 9 spins plus the previous 10 to repeat
Quote from: The General on May 08, 05:50 PM 2016
In this thread, they can put forth their best argument or insult (towards me) if they so choose.
My ban is expired. I will not come back here and post insults and attacks. (with exception of what I need to say right now)
The General has had the floor for the past week so hopefully this post does not result in another ban. I will state facts and only facts.
However since The General/Caleb/Houston/Xander/Real decided to start this thread and said
"put forth their best argument " (quoted above) I will do so
Let me start with last weekend. Yes, my behavior was inappropriate. I had a few drinks. But in MY DEFENSE I did try to start a thread for debate which was a good thread until The General/Caleb/Houston/Xander/Real showed up. My thread was geared towards trying to understand what Priyanka was saying.
Who is The General? Well he is a man that is, or was, on most roulette forums. He trolls people. He tries to make people feel stupid. He tries to bring himself up with ridiculous posts like this one.
Caleb, actually dislikes Steve. So why is Caleb here?
Caleb is here because he has exhausted all other venues. Bet selection will not have him, roulette forum dot com sucks so he aborted mission there, roulette 30, now here.
This is not about "you can have your own opinion but not your own facts".
This is someone who does not understand this is a roulette strategy forum and people have a hobby making "systems" and testing them and playing roulette as
RECREATION . Get it? Understand that? A hobby. Recreation. When it comes to a hobby, people using disposable money, you do not have the right to tell them they are wrong. You do it your way. Whoopie!
That is like me going to a gardening forum and acting this way because they use a different top soil.
He has to butt his nose in to make himself feel big.
We get it dude, you play VB. You regurgitate the same shit everyday.
I am not a "copy and paste" scientist like you are. "Typing" a novel of science in a matter of seconds. I am very very in tune with what is happening in the world and I am very knowledgeable on string theory and the ideas surrounding parallel realities/universes. I can discuss it without copy and paste. So smite me for liking roulette enough to view it as a hobby.
What is a man who dislikes Steve so much doing here? Patronizing his forum? And partaking in his multiplayer game?
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Its simple. At then time he didnt know any better and got rubbish information from people like howe, forester and bago. Maybe he knows better now, maybe not. I dont really care RG. He's not attacking me here and not breaking rules. Like you are, he's entitled to have his say about roulette. As I discussed before, if you dont like him you can use the ignore member feature, or post only in the system players area (where he isnt allowed). If you worry so much about what someone says on a forum, how would you deal with it in real life? You are wasting energy on this stuff really. If Caleb were to troll or break rules, he would be subject to the same rules as everyone.
Quote from: Steve on May 09, 08:16 PM 2016
Its simple. At then time he didnt know any better and got rubbish information from people like howe, forester and bago. Maybe he knows better now, maybe not. I dont really care RG. He's not attacking me here and not breaking rules. Like you are, he's entitled to have his say about roulette. As I discussed before, if you dont like him you can use the ignore member feature, or post only in the system players area (where he isnt allowed). If you worry so much about what someone says on a forum, how would you deal with it in real life? You are wasting energy on this stuff really. If Caleb were to troll or break rules, he would be subject to the same rules as everyone.
steve can i ignore to where i do not see his posts, or no?
QuoteA question: You collect spins from your local casino and observe that runs of 10 or more reds don't come up nearly as often as theory predicts, so next time you see 9 reds in a row, you bet black.-Bayes
Bayes,
Oddly enough several years back we found a casino that had a few wheels with a red bias. The casino had replaced the red inserts, but not the black inserts..I guess because they didn't have the correct material. The red inserts were deadening the ball more, I guess because of how they were glued. Regardless, it was one of the few times where a player could get an advantage playing on the outside.
RG yes you can ignore posts from anyone and they dont appear
Quote from: Steve on May 09, 08:19 PM 2016
RG yes you can ignore posts from anyone and they dont appear
this is
awesome news
Quote from: Steve on May 09, 08:16 PM 2016people like howe, forester and bago
DEAR GOD
I did my best to block those names out of my memory and now they are back. lol
Hits my head with a hammer over and over
Quote from: TurboGenius on May 09, 08:26 PM 2016DEAR GOD
I did my best to block those names out of my memory and now they are back. lol
lol sorry. Ah the good old days. I dont know what i was thinking wasting so much time
Bago reminded me of "The Grumpy Bug".
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=-HKhxbS_dsw
hmm not far from it. Except Bago didnt end up with friends
Quote from: The General on May 09, 09:19 PM 2016
Bago reminded me of "The Grumpy Bug".
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=-HKhxbS_dsw
LOL !
I watched that - now I feel better.
Quote from: Steve on May 09, 08:44 PM 2016
lol sorry. Ah the good old days. I dont know what i was thinking wasting so much time
I remember one time me and Mark were going at it at GG and I posted this video and said that it was him
I swear I have never laughed so hard making a post in my life
(you have to watch the whole thing - I just pictured the record at the end as a roulette wheel LOL)
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=_dfLkJ3SFMs
Quote from: TurboGenius on May 09, 10:04 PM 2016
I remember one time me and Mark were going at it at GG and I posted this video and said that it was him
I swear I have never laughed so hard making a post in my life
(you have to watch the whole thing - I just pictured the record at the end as a roulette wheel LOL)
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=_dfLkJ3SFMs
3:42 to 3:52
BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
i cannot wait to use this
Wow. He is either wasted, or brain damaged. Come to think of it, it's spot on Mark alright. You think you know how screwy he is? I could tell you some things he did to try and piss me off, you wouldnt believe it. Just a sample: on separate occasions he: contacted my wife asking to buy $8000 in earings (I'm not sure why, I think to try and get my address). He claimed someone was secretly poisoning my pregnant wife to cause birth defects. Using another name, he emailed my wife claiming to be a prostitute I was screwing, and that she had STDs so my wife needed to be checked. Contacted random people with related names sending them long hate mail speeches. The list is very long. I know screwed people exist, but damn. He is off the charts. In the end he blamed me for being kicked out by his girlfriend. As if I was the problem.
Quote from: Steve on May 09, 10:18 PM 2016
Wow. He is either wasted, or brain damaged. Come to think of it, it's spot on Mark alright. You think you know how screwy he is? I could tell you some things he did to try and piss me off, you wouldnt believe it. Just a sample: on separate occasions he: contacted my wife asking to buy $8000 in earings (I'm not sure why, I think to try and get my address). He claimed someone was secretly poisoning my pregnant wife to cause birth defects. Using another name, he emailed my wife claiming to be a prostitute I was screwing, and that she had STDs so my wife needed to be checked. Contacted random people with related names sending them long hate mail speeches. The list is very long. I know screwed people exist, but damn. He is off the charts. In the end he blamed me for being kicked out by his girlfriend. As if I was the problem.
how did he get personal info like that of your wife
man
if anyone online contacted my wife my life long mission would be to find them
It wasn't that hard, but it does show his dedication to stupid pursuits. She has a few businesses.
Quote from: The General on May 09, 08:18 PM 2016
Bayes,
Oddly enough several years back we found a casino that had a few wheels with a red bias. The casino had replaced the red inserts, but not the black inserts..I guess because they didn't have the correct material. The red inserts were deadening the ball more, I guess because of how they were glued. Regardless, it was one of the few times where a player could get an advantage playing on the outside.
That's very cool. :)
The answer to the question is no - you wouldn't be committing the GF if your reason for betting on black after 9 reds was based on empirical evidence (even if you don't have an explanation for the data, as in your example of the inserts). The data might be inadequate or incorrectly analysed, but it wouldn't be a matter of faulty logic.
Which force is at Work?
It is definitly the same force that makes independent events to fulfill the law of thirds
br
Quote from: winkel on May 10, 10:49 AM 2016
Which force is at Work?
It is definitly the same force that makes independent events to fulfill the law of thirds
br
:thumbsup:
Random certainly does produce predictable patterns thanks to it being random.
Quote from: Bayes on May 10, 06:59 AM 2016
The answer to the question is no - you wouldn't be committing the GF if your reason for betting on black after 9 reds was based on empirical evidence (even if you don't have an explanation for the data, as in your example of the inserts). The data might be inadequate or incorrectly analysed, but it wouldn't be a matter of faulty logic.
Actually, the example of the inserts is a case of bias, not independence. You still wouldn't be able to predict that red was coming next, given that some blacks had hit, but you would have an advantage just betting on red.