db6000 spins used 4 testing random Vs random with one static rule and lightning conductor.
Next posts show first 250 spins
Red
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
L
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W
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W
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
L
L
W
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
WINS = 43
LOSSES = 47
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =21 / Losses =13
Black
L
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
L
W
L
L
W
W
W
L
L
L
W
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
L
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W
L
L
W
L
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W
W
L
L
L
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
W
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
L
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
W
Wins = 48
Losses = 44
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =19 / Losses =12
Odd
L
W
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
W
W
L
W
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
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W
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
L
L
W
L
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
W
W
W
L
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
W
W
L
W
L
L
W
W
L
W
W
L
L
Wins = 50
Losses = 44
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =20 / Losses =12
Even
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
L
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W
L
L
L
W
L
W
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L
W
W
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W
L
W
W
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W
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L
W
W
L
L
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W
W
L
W
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
W
Wins = 48
Losses = 36
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =22 / Losses =7
HIGH
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
W
W
L
L
W
W
L
W
W
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W
L
W
W
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W
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W
L
L
W
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W
L
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L
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W
L
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W
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W
L
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L
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W
L
W
L
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W
L
W
L
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L
W
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
W
W
W
L
L
Wins = 44
Losses = 54
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =18 / Losses =18
How'dja do it? How'dja do it?
LOW
L
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
L
W
W
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
L
W
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
W
L
W
W
W
W
W
W
L
L
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
W
W
L
L
W
W
W
W
L
L
L
L
Wins = 49
Losses = 38
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =13 / Losses =13
AFTER 250 spins
Results:
[attachimg=1]
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jun 02, 09:55 AM 2012
How'dja do it? How'dja do it?
random Vs random with one static rule, "lightning conductor" and reduced bets.This reffers to what EGO exposed on the other thread and is just one way of applying it.
As i mentioned before i used to play this with great success.
Ego also suggests Humble progression or Fibbo.
I like to filter LW registry...
[attachimg=1]
I can not find anything much simpler or much better than this. :thumbsup:
Hello Alberto
Your results r cool but few hundreds spins wont make me a convert. Make it 100+ sessions and we can draw some conclusions. Sorry but im always doubting Thomas here :D
Thanks 4 an input.
Regards
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Jun 02, 11:21 AM 2012
Hello Alberto
Your results r cool but few hundreds spins won't make me a convert. Make it 100+ sessions and we can draw some conclusions. Sorry but I'm always doubting Thomas here :D
Thanks 4 an input.
Regards
I show this and you do whatever you want with it. It is for free.
Unless you want me to work for you...
I am not advocating this will never loose but i did not see anything better than this, did you?
O0
Depending on your bankroll, you can play this in B&M casinos 'till the rest of your life.
>:D
Hi Al,
Ya reckon this is better than the Marigny method?
For me, it's not so important that it wins flat betting, in fact if you factor in the zeros (15 of them) the result is pretty much even. The important thing is to keep the variance low, and this does SEEM to do the job, although as RH says, the sample is too small.
Thanks for your efforts. :thumbsup:
If i had really something better i would post it Alberto ;D Lets give it some more time.
Quote from: Bayes on Jun 02, 11:55 AM 2012
Hi Al,
Ya reckon this is better than the Marigny method?
For me, it's not so important that it wins flat betting, in fact if you factor in the zeros (15 of them) the result is pretty much even. The important thing is to keep the variance low, and this does SEEM to do the job, although as RH says, the sample is too small.
Thanks for your efforts. :thumbsup:
Not better than Marigny, but has a nice fluctuation.
Zeros were accounted in play not ignored. They counted as a Loss...
If one puts the LW registry into P&F charting results are even more impressive =)
this is LW registry for the next 250 spins
results for RED
[attachimg=1]
Filtering results with the P&F charting, would give us the following Results:
lwl:wwlwlwllll:lwwlwlwl:lwwlwlwwll:lwwlllll:lllwllllwwlwwll
wwlwl:wllwwlwwllwwlwwlwlwlwl:ww
Wins= 59
Losses = 45
the above is to play after a simple indication until in plus flat bet.
Just to mention that raw results would have been: W=82 L=101 =)
They are posted here, so if you wanna try it and add types of bets with the charts, you are more than welcome. It would be very nice to add it to this, if you have the time...
Also i am curious on how u use the charts.
thanks 4 Everything Bayes.
:thumbsup:
Hello Alberto
Generally if d method works you dont need LW registry 2 start betting. Waiting 4 few virtual loses gives you only a false sense of more security but in reality only reduces your loses and does not affect your strike rate. I just dont see why you would need that especially in trend oriented method :D
Regards
It is not everything about trending.... You got it sideways.
We want to prevent 9 trails to become 27 trails; Cycle ends as soon as you hit a W and then the bet selection changes.
It is random Vs random and we do not try to catch any trend here.
Filtering LW registry off course reduces number of bets, but intention is reduce overall Losses and take advantage of diminished volatility, thus more equilibrium.
Find me 500 spins without a serie of 8 in any EC .... (7L in a row is what was found in the example so far)
(I have seen more)
So just make a comparison with other Bet selection method. I know Mathematically they are supposed to be all the same, Because they have the same odds.
Thanks for feedback and
Cheers
:thumbsup:
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 02, 12:08 PM 2012
Zeros were accounted in play not ignored. They counted as a Loss...
If one puts the LW registry into P&F charting results are even more impressive =)
Cool. :)
According to theory, (the so-called law of series) not only should there be half as many series of RR as R, half as many RRR as RR etc (and the same for Black) but this pattern should apply to ANY W/L registry, so half as many WW as W, half as many WWW as WW (and the same for the L series).
If the theory is correct (and mathematically it is) then there's no way that any bet selection could be better than any other - by symmetry, you will get exactly the same number of streaks (W/L) of the same length on both sides so it follows that no bet selection can make a long term profit flat betting.
However, what I've found is that the way these streaks are distributed can vary, so that some bet selections really do result in lower draw-downs (this is the case for even simple DBL, compared to betting one side continuously).
It would be interesting to do a simulation to see what would happen if the mathematically expected perfect distribution of streaks didn't occur long-term - what would be the advantage? For example, if I was to remove all losing streaks more than say 8, would that be enough to give you a flat-bet profit?, or you could maybe remove a fraction of them and see what the result was. Then you could work on ways to actually eliminate those streaks (or perhaps just cancel them out using some kind of progression).
who could explain me plainly what it is all about? thanx
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 02, 08:11 AM 2012
Red
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
W
W
L
W
W
L
W
L
W
L
W
W
W
L
W
L
L
W
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
L
W
L
W
W
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
WINS = 43
LOSSES = 47
Filtered LW registry (Attack once After a L): Wins =21 / Losses =13
Hi Albert,
When I filter the LW registy (attack once After a L) I get Wins =17 / Losses =11
How do you get W=21 / L =13?
L
L = L
W
W
W
L
W = W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
W
W
L
L = L
L
L
L
W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
L = L
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
L = L
L
W
L
L = L
L
L
L
W
L
L = L
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
W
L
L = L
W
W
W
L
W = W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
W = W
W
W
L
W = W
L
L = L
W
L
L = L
L
W
W
W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
W
L
L = L
W
L
W = W
L
L = L
OK, I'll expose myself........
I have no idea how to read the chart except for the red/black thing. Anyone care to clue me in?
Sam
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Jun 09, 02:37 AM 2012
Hi Albert,
When I filter the LW registy (attack once After a L) I get Wins =17 / Losses =11
How do you get W=21 / L =13?
L
L = L
W
W
W
L
W = W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
W
W
L
L = L
L
L =L
L
W =W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
L = L
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
L = L
L
W = W
and so on...
Hi albert could i ask a couple of questions as i,m pretty interested in this stuff and my comp won,t open the file....am i right in thinking your using say a random 250 list of results as your betting guide ? I understand the betting registry fine...
Nice one Alberto,
It's good to see you sharing some of your expertise with us again.
I've been testing this with different bet selection methods with equally good if not better results.
You know how much I love even chance methods.
The strike rate is so good, any bet method will work.
GLC
Quote from: GLC on Jun 09, 05:21 PM 2012
Nice one Alberto,
It's good to see you sharing some of your expertise with us again.
I've been testing this with different bet selection methods with equally good if not better results.
You know how much I love even chance methods.
The strike rate is so good, any bet method will work.
GLC
I am just glad you like it =)
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 02, 10:10 AM 2012
As i mentioned before i used to play this with great success.
Ego also suggests Humble progression or Fibbo.
I like to filter LW registry...
Thanks AJ - can you elaborate further regarding how you used to play this?
Regards
B27
Guys, I'm trying to understand why this works.
We're betting Red. Ignore zero
If we have 2000 spins, half of the spins will be Red and half will be Black.
After each Red will be 500 Reds or streaks and 500 Blacks or chops.
If we only bet for a chop after a chop, we will have a potential of 250 possible wins. Losses could be less because we are tracking through streaks which can last multiple lengths.
In other words chops are finite, restricted to lengths of 1 whereas streaks are infinite not being restricted to any length.
Even though I'm not clear on exactly how this works out mathematically, it appears to work logically.
Am I on the right path?
Am I overlooking something?
Are we just being lucky so far?
If this works, shouldn't it work for both Red and Black or L's and W's in the same sequence of numbers?
:o :question: :-\
GLC
Quote from: GLC on Jun 10, 11:58 AM 2012
Guys, I'm trying to understand why this works.
We're betting Red. Ignore zero
If we have 2000 spins, half of the spins will be Red and half will be Black.
After each Red will be 500 Reds or streaks and 500 Blacks or chops.
If we only bet for a chop after a chop, we will have a potential of 250 possible wins. Losses could be less because we are tracking through streaks which can last multiple lengths.
In other words chops are finite, restricted to lengths of 1 whereas streaks are infinite not being restricted to any length.
Even though I'm not clear on exactly how this works out mathematically, it appears to work logically.
Am I on the right path?
Am I overlooking something?
Are we just being lucky so far?
If this works, shouldn't it work for both Red and Black or L's and W's in the same sequence of numbers?
:o :question: :-\
GLC
Its rather puzzling George. 2 me its still sort of hit n miss approach. I would rather back up d color so play FTL style using LW registry. AJ plays differently betting on chops 2 continue but not continuously so u dont get wiped out by long series of repeats. Both events - chops n series have of coz d same chance of happening but if u look at d board u immediately register first series of repeats.... But its flat betting so it wont hurt much f u wrong :D
Regards
The hardest point to get to apply this with success is a betting selection that produces a Loss / Win registry
with the lowest swings achievable. We all know it is hard to win flat betting Ec's.
With a moderated Bankroll, anything between 6 to 10 Losses in a row is nice to play, filtering the LW registry.
Flat
Humble Fibonacci progression
Guetting progression
About the progressions, George is The Best expert on the matter, and we know some are more adequate than others relatively to certain LW distributions.
================================================
The success to this is the logic within the bet selection.
What is suggested here is "double filtering".
... If the bet selection suggests that you play virtually until you achieve 2 losses in a row and then attack the game continuously and stop on a win, it constitutes already a form of primary filtering.
Then if you re-filter your "pseudo-real" results, your strike rate should be increased somehow.
The roulette spins endlessly but you choose when to play.
The only thing one can develop to make this even better is in the line of Bayes thinking.
Track a strong ecart and bet for correction after an indication.
:thumbsup:
Sure looks good on some of my WL tabulations--very simple also
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Jun 10, 10:45 AM 2012
Thanks AJ - can you elaborate further regarding how you used to play this?
Regards
B27
For everyone that as doubts regarding the Bet Selection, please check this thread:
link:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/14/ec/9552/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/14/ec/9552/)
the way i am reading it is you only play after losses ,,, wl x time to play, wlll x time to play etc --seems brilliant
can be used on any bet selection that you like
Quote from: Tomla021 on Jun 10, 07:12 PM 2012
the way i am reading it is you only play after losses ,,, wl x time to play, wlll x time to play etc --seems brilliant
can be used on any bet selection that you like
Looks like we only bet after the 1st L. then we have to wait for at least 1 W then we can bet after the next L. Is this right?
GLC
Quote from: GLC on Jun 10, 07:31 PM 2012
Looks like we only bet after the 1st L. then we have to wait for at least 1 W then we can bet after the next L. Is this right?
GLC
correct :thumbsup: but that is only the pricipal of it. >:D
it depends on the lw registry each bs provides...
another option is to attack after a win that comes after a series of losses
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 10, 07:51 PM 2012
correct :thumbsup: but that is only the pricipal of it. >:D
it depends on the lw registry each bs provides...
another option is to attack after a win that comes after a series of losses
Hello AJ
RRBRRRRBRRRRRBRBRRRRBR
U see this sequence quite often. Betting R after 1 VL u have 5W n 0L :D
On d other hand
RBBBRRRRBBBRRBBBRRRR happens quite often 2
Playing FTL after 1 VL gives u 6W n 0L ;D
Important is 2 always bet after 1 VL n after either W or L stop n wait 4 next VL
Regards
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Jun 10, 11:06 PM 2012
Hello AJ
RRBRRRRBRRRRRBRBRRRRBR
U see this sequence quite often. Betting R after 1 VL You have 5W n 0L :D
On d other hand
RBBBRRRRBBBRRBBBRRRR happens quite often 2
Playing FTL after 1 VL gives u 6W n 0L ;D
Important is 2 always bet after 1 VL n after either W or L stop n wait 4 next VL
Regards
With FTL you get killed by series of singles attacking after a Virtual Loss...
R B R B R B R B R B R B
as for beting one of the colors
the adverse formation is Series of the color you are not betting...
Betting R after a Virtual Loss
BBBBBBBBBBBBB = LLLLLL...
:o
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 11, 04:52 AM 2012
With FTL you get killed by series of singles attacking after a Virtual Loss...
R B R B R B R B R B R B
as for beting one of the colors
the adverse formation is Series of the color you are not betting...
Betting R after a Virtual Loss
BBBBBBBBBBBBB = LLLLLL...
:o
Hello AJ
I agree with singles but u stop after 1 bet n wait 4 trigger betting R n i would wait 4 d series 2 end
so if BBBBBBBBBB i wait 4 RB sequence 2 place a bet
Regards
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Jun 11, 05:07 AM 2012
Hello AJ
I agree with singles but u stop after 1 bet n wait 4 trigger betting R n i would wait 4 d series 2 end
so if BBBBBBBBBB i wait 4 RB sequence 2 place a bet
Regards
Very nice.
So far i love we have to trolling over here -God Forbid! >:D
I will had something else.
[attachimg=1]
Check the pdf attached.
Cheers
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 11, 06:30 AM 2012
Very nice.
So far i love we have to trolling over here -God Forbid! >:D
I will had something else.
[attachimg=1]
Check the pdf attached.
Cheers
Hello AJ
Sorry i have problem figuring out yr charts. D top one represents flat bet n d bottom one a progression. Is it 6 step progression after a loss when betting R after 1 VL?
There is no attached spin sample so im bit confused here ;D
Regards
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Jun 11, 11:04 AM 2012
Hello AJ
Sorry i have problem figuring out yr charts. D top one represents flat bet n d bottom one a progression. Is it 6 step progression after a loss when betting R after 1 VL?
There is no attached spin sample so I'm bit confused here ;D
Regards
this is to show how the results can be filtered by multiple layers:
after 1 loss
after 2 losses
after 3 losses
after 4 losses
after 5 losses
after 6 losses...
On the upper example i use 1 unit in every attack, as for the bottom one :
2 units after 1 loss
3 units after 2 losses
4 units after 3 losses
...
etc.
...
Any other progression can be used.
1-1-1-2-2-3
1-1-2-3-4-7
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-.....
i didn't put the spins because the bet selection is acessory.
This is a very smart thread I hope it goes on
Regarding Hit & Run strategies, in my opinion they only make sense working with the kind of LW registry the bet provides.
Example:
If we play an EC in clusters of 3 outcomes, we have 4 different combinations possible:
X=Same
O=Other
XXX
XXO
XOX
XOO
It is easy to see that if we bet for Same after the first spin, only one in this three combinations gives us a total loss
XXX - W
XXO - W
XOX - LW
XOO - LL
The same would happen if we would bet for "OTHER"
XXX - LL
XXO - LW
XOX - W
XOO - W
Here is an Example on how to play it raw.
As you can see in the pdf this is a live session from casino berlin.
It is played Betting for X "Same" on R&B
Money management is "Foolproof progression" +1 on a Loss ; Same on a Win - Reset on Profit.
[attach=1]
How would we apply Filtering the LW registry in this bet?
One option would be play After LL and use the progression until Even or in Plus.
A succession of mini games would happen. And this is like Hit & Run but with a reason for it.
Another option would be play all this flat bet but then it would become a giant grind.
[attach=1]
Cheers.
hi albertojonas, & thanks for posting this - v interesting.
1 question, you explained the way to play below:
Quote
L
L = L
W
W
W
L
W = W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
W
W
L
L = L
L
L =L
L
W =W
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
L = L
W
L
W = W
L
W = W
L
L = L
L
W = W
and so on...
but this seems to contradict this:
Quote
Quote from: GLC on June 10, 2012, 01:31:23 PM (link:://rouletteforum.cc/testing-zone/13/ec-no-trolling/9594/msg81496#msg81496)
Looks like we only bet after the 1st L. then we have to wait for at least 1 W then we can bet after the next L. Is this right?
GLC
**************************************************************
correct (link:://rouletteforum.cc/Smileys/default/thumbsup.gif) but that is only the pricipal of it. :D" src="link:://rouletteforum.cc/Smileys/default/evil.gif">
it depends on the lw registry each bs provides...
another option is to attack after a win that comes after a series of losses
after LL, would you wait for a W to play again, or do you play after LLL? thanks
first i have to focus again that each strategy of filtering depends on the registry each Bet Selection provides.
For the bet selection i explored above the strategy was to attack after a L once.
ex:
L
L=L
L
L=L
W
L
W=W
.
What you can had to this is to do the same with a different bet unit
after LL
same example:
L
L
L=L
L
W (optional attack =W)
L
W
then after LLL again with different bet size
same example again:
L
L
L
L=L
W
L
W
.....
ETC... and so on.
The above was to choose triggers to attack the original LW registry using different filters: L - LL - LLL - LLLL - LLLLL etc
2. What one can experiment with is to re filter. with the same or other filters.
imagine you filter 1st after a L and after that you can apply the same or another filter to this results, like a 2nd layer or dimension.
*******************************************************
the most important is that you are acquainted with the behaviour of the LW registry each bet selection provides. fluctuation, drawdowns, max loss, etc...
Bet selections are not all the same, odds maybe, behavior NOT. And this is not GF.
*********************************************************
-What i mentioned to GLC was precisely that there are more ways to filter = more filters.
and one of them is to attack once after a win that comes after a string of losses = L L W BET
this way you try and avoid long strings of Losses. it is good for bet selections that tend to cluster wins and losses.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: GLC on Jun 10, 07:31 PM 2012
Looks like we only bet after the 1st L. then we have to wait for at least 1 W then we can bet after the next L. Is this right?
GLC
That is interesting filter for bet selections that provide Lots of LW
LWLWLWLWLWLWLW
I don't know if this has anything to add to this topic, but it is another perspective on filtering.
link:://targetbetting.blogspot.com/ (link:://targetbetting.blogspot.com/)
Also:
link:://:.sethbets.com/ (link:://:.sethbets.com/)
funny you mentioned that. it is interesting material and very helpfull in building a progression / money management system.
I could not find the conection with the LW registry, may you point it out?
thanks albertojonas for detailed reply.
I remember GLC mentioning the use of the LW registry with regard to the Sethbets method - why make lots of samesize losing bets, waiting for a W before trying to recoup - just wait for a virtual W then bet.. made sense to me anyway!
thanks again
Seth is heavily involved in chasing Horsie bets with his system now. I also dont understand why he bets the small amount? In reality its a chase of a Win after a Win WL bet once more for a Win then repeat on the next win after a Loss
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 28, 01:44 PM 2012
funny you mentioned that. it is interesting material and very helpfull in building a progression / money management system.
I could not find the conection with the LW registry, may you point it out?
I guess it was really a W filter. Just bet a martingale after a W shooting for a WW to fully recover. I posted a bet selection method where we went for multiple wins after a W to fully recover. It helped our progression stay a little lower, but it still reached the stratosphere every now and then.
I mostly found myself agreeing with a lot of his ideas. Some of the new members and guests may have never read his material and I think it's worth being aware of at least.
Something like using a W for a filter/trigger means that we never bet more than once on a losing run. We can have WLs strung together that would give us a long series of L's, but that's less common, I think. Anything like this: LWLLLWLLWLWLWLLLLLWLWLWLWLLLWLLWLLL would hurt.
That's 11 losses in a row if you just wait and bet to make a full recovery after each W. I don't think betting 1 on each Loss helps any, although it does give us more won units but at the same time it causes our bet size to grow faster.
It also keeps our place at a table where you have to bet each spin.
Risky if you don't have a bet selection that gives more than average number of W's in a row.
The above sequence would be 1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024 and you'd have to bet 2048 on the winning or 12th double up. Too rich for my blood.