Introduction. This method came to be after something clicked in my mind while revisiting THE ZONE. When I was struggling against Bayes RNG in the early days of my challenge. With the ZONE we would wait until a dozen had slept for 4 consecutive spins then attempt to get a hit between spins 5--8 using a 1,1,2,3=7 points risk progression. What came to my mind was before you get to five there has to be a FOUR. And its the behaviour of these FOURS that enabled me to get up to over 2000 points with relative ease against an RNG.
THE RULES.
1, We track the dozens until one of them produces two consecutive 4 gaps as in the example below.
DOZEN 1
6
7
4
4---This is our trigger.
2, we now continue tracking until another dozen or the same dozen produces another 4 gap. If the same dozen produces a 4 gap it must be separated from the starting trigger by a gap greater than 4 as in the example below.
DOZEN 1
6
7
4
4---Trigger
5
4--Trigger to bet.
5--Win, as it did not become another 4 gap.
3, We now bet against that dozen producing two consecutive 4 gaps again, by betting it becomes a five or more. So we bet on the other two dozens.
4, We repeat this process for up to 4 games using the classic 1,3,9,27 progression. What we are in effect doing is betting against 5 consecutive double FOURS forming. I have never seen more than four doubles in a row so far. And that includes when Zero has hit.
5, Tracking can take between 30---60 spins to get your game. On Bayes RNG this was easy as it was lightning fast. On a live wheel it will require more patience of course. But its solid. And I truly believe its RNG proof too. As I have won over 700 games in a row against them. As always all questions are welcome.
Thanks JohnLegend! :)
Lots of questions etc.
Could you show an example of two dozens in play when "FOUR" is triggered for the start of FIVE?
Quote from: amk on Sep 19, 04:07 PM 2012
Thanks JohnLegend! :)
Lots of questions etc.
Could you show an example of two dozens in play when "FOUR" is triggered for the start of FIVE?
Hi AMK,
DOZEN 1------------DOZEN 3
6 5
7 8
4 6
4----TRIGGER 4----TRIGGER TO BET AGAINST NEXT FOUR
7----Win on step 1 of the progression....Betting on Dozens 1 and 2
Hope that helps a bit.
Ahh the Famous 5 --thanks John
Quote from: Tomla021 on Sep 19, 04:35 PM 2012
Ahh the Famous 5 --thanks John
You are welcome.
Hi John . . .
Kindly clarify what is a "4 gap"?
Thanks
Nick
Perhaps I need to see all 3 dozens in play JL.
Am I right to say that the missing third dozen in your example will have a very low gap flow?
Might see some bets to play in the meantime :)
Quote from: Nickmsi on Sep 19, 04:48 PM 2012
Hi John . . .
Kindly clarify what is a "4 gap"?
Thanks
Nick
Hello Nick a four gap is the following
DOZEN 1 FOR EXAMPLE 11-22-24-31-5. Notice the first and last numbers from dozen 1 are 4 apart this is a 4 gap.
Quote from: amk on Sep 19, 04:51 PM 2012
Perhaps I need to see all 3 dozens in play JL.
Am I right to say that the missing third dozen in your example will have a very low gap flow?
Might see some bets to play in the meantime :)
Hi AMK. You take them in the order they form. Its the first dozen to produce a 4 after your trigger that you will automatically select as your first attempt. Sometimes one dozen produces no FOURS. But several gaps greater than 4. Like the following example.
DOZEN 3
8
12
5
6
6
11
9---ETC
So as you can see there was nothing to play against with that example. Remember we don't count anything less than 4. Obviously there will be gaps of 1,2 and 3 forming all the time. Our attention is only concentrated on a dozen once it gets to 4. So for exampe DOZEN 2 may have produced the following results over 20 spins of the wheel.
1,3,3,2,4,1,1,1,4---We ignore everything except the two FOURS it has formed this becomes our game TRIGGER.
Thanks for submitting 5. I appreciate anyone who is generous with their ideas.
I think when you eat sleep and bath in an idea, you think you explained it fully. I dont think everyone will get your explaination.
Lets see if I got it.
17,1,2,33,34,19,22,33,4,4,36,24,22,13,33,bet doz 2 and 3,
Now.....my problem is this. The 2nd 4 is qualifiied by the red 24. Is the red 24 part of the further tracking or does it qualify the 2nd 4 and tracking is after. i.e in my example, where I bet Doz2,3, was I correct or was I one short
Thanks John! Now we will be test it, but when we undertstand completely.
JL, Thanks for sharing your idea. It is simple and complex at the same time. I know that once we see it in action it will clear up a lot of questions, and believe me we still have a lot of questions.
I know that a picture is worth a thousand words and also that a picture can take a thousand times as long to produce as words. But, we need a picture for this one. ???
Maybe it would be easier to present the basic idea using 2's as the example instead of 4's. Then once we fully understand the principle, we can adapt it to 4's.
GLC
Been giving this a lot of thought. Thanks, John.
Trying to understand a "four gap" as that is step one for me.
Is it this?
1st dozen
any dozen not first
any dozen not first
any dozen not first
1st dozen.
OR
2nd dozen
any dozen not 2nd
any dozen not 2nd
any dozen not 2nd
2nd dozen.
OR
3rd dozen
any dozen not 3rd
any dozen not 3rd
any dozen not 3rd
3rd dozen
Is this much correct?
Sam
Sam, I'm gong to venture some thoughts below. I hope they're on track.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 19, 03:43 PM 2012
With the ZONE we would wait until a dozen had slept for 4 consecutive spins then attempt to get a hit between spins 5--8 using a 1,1,2,3=7 points risk progression.
THE RULES.
1, We track the dozens until one of them produces two consecutive 4 gaps as in the example below.
DOZEN 1
6
7
4
4---This is our trigger.
Here's what I think this looks like when the spins are translated into dozens: 1 2 3 3 2 3 2 1 2 2 3 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 2 3 1 2 3 3 3 1. As we can see we have a 1 doz and then 6 spins of the 2nd and 3rd dozens and then another 1 doz. Then seven 2nd and 3rd dozen hits before another 1st dozen hits. Then four 2nd and 3rd dozens spin then a 1st dozen, then four more 2nd and 3rd dozens spin, then a 1st dozen. These last eleven dozens represent the two 4 gaps that gives us a trigger. As you can see the last three 1st dozen spins have two sets of 4 each 2nd or 3rd dozen spins separating them.
2, we now continue tracking until another dozen or the same dozen produces another 4 gap. If the same dozen produces a 4 gap it must be separated from the starting trigger by a gap greater than 4 as in the example below.
DOZEN 1
6
7
4
4---Trigger
5 This is where JL said we needed to have a gap greater than 4 because it's the same dozen; 1 doz.
4--Trigger to bet. This is a trigger to bet because we have another 4 gap and we're going to bet that random doesn't give us another 4 gap.
5--Win, as it did not become another 4 gap. Once we got four 2nd or 3rd dozen spins, we bet 1-1 on the 2nd and 3rd dozen and 1 of them hits, so we win. Had we gotten a 1 dozen spin after the four 2nd or 3rd dozen spins, we would have had two back to back 4 gaps which is what we're betting against.
What we are in effect doing is betting against 5 consecutive double FOURS forming. I have never seen more than four doubles in a row so far. And that includes when Zero has hit.
Sam, I think this is what JL is saying. Another way to show it is the following:
123231232312323123231232312323123231232312323123231. This is what we're betting against happening. The 4 red 1's is where we bet on dozens 2 and 3. The 1st red 1 we bet 1-1 on doz 2 & 3, the 2nd red 1 we bet 3-3, the 3rd red 1 we bet 9-9 and the 4th red 1 we bet 27-27.
Now, I may not have all the factors involved in the above description, but I think that is the basic idea we're playing against. As you can see, the odds of random throwing that pattern at us is pretty darn rare.
I think it can take a very long time between betting opportunities. I don't doubt for a second that this has a very high strike rate. I just don't know if I have enough years of life left to get a 100 wins before sailing off into the wild blue yonder. :LoL: It's a joke JL, kind a. Hehehe, LoL etc....
I could be off base, but maybe I included enough explanation that JL can clean it up for us without having to start from scratch.
Back to you JL,
GLC
"Hello Nick a four gap is the following
DOZEN 1 FOR EXAMPLE 11-22-24-31-5. Notice the first and last numbers from dozen 1 are 4 apart this is a 4 gap" quote from John
@GLC I agree with you except above. ;D
This will require lots of spins. John estimate of 30-60 spins to get a game seems to be very generous.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 19, 11:17 PM 2012
Been giving this a lot of thought. Thanks, John.
Trying to understand a "four gap" as that is step one for me.
Is it this?
1st dozen
any dozen not first
any dozen not first
any dozen not first
1st dozen.
OR
2nd dozen
any dozen not 2nd
any dozen not 2nd
any dozen not 2nd
2nd dozen.
OR
3rd dozen
any dozen not 3rd
any dozen not 3rd
any dozen not 3rd
3rd dozen
Is this much correct?
Sam
That's correct Sam
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 19, 03:43 PM 2012
And its the behaviour of these FOURS that enabled me to get up to over 2000 points with relative ease against an RNG.
Thanks JL for this method!
Gents - I think you guys are missing the point here of betting opportunities. The bold part at the top says clearly - RNG (yes this can be played live but at a spin between 45sec - 60sec....we'll all grow old) O0
Ideally this should, in my opinion, be coded into a bot and let it tumble away at the nice and fast spins that can be produced on the RNG wheels!
Ciao
M
I SOO dont understand this
Soz maybe Im bein dim (most likely) but my eyes just glazed over and my brain was like, "what??"
NOT attackin JL or the System just my ability to understand
Twister
See my post above where I outline the "four gap". John says that explanation is correct.
Now we find what to do next.
Sam
Four gap established for Sam.
Now, an example:
1st doz
not first
not first
not first
1st again..............this is the first gap
1st doz
not 1st
not 1st
not 1st
1st doz................This is the second gap.......
Say, 2nd doz
not 2nd
not 2nd
not 2nd
2nd doz..............this is the "pre-trigger"??
TIME TO BET??
3rd doz or what???..........Is this the trigger??
bet one
bet two
bet three
bet four
Maybe?
Sam
Uhm, I unfortuneatly fall in the "Twister" group.
Can someone put down 100 numbers and show how it happens.
Sorry!
M
How I understood F.e. we have numers 6 15 33 19 10 17 30 22 28
6, - 1 dozen
15, -2 dozen
33, -3 dozen
19, -3 dozen
10, -1 we got trigger because we got 4 gap (between 6 and 10 space = 4)
17, - 2 dozen
30, - 3 dozen
22, - 2 dozen
we bet against the formation of second gap, another word against 1 dozen
28 -we win
And we can use any dozen
we wait ONLY GAP :)
Quote from: Maui13 on Sep 20, 07:36 AM 2012
Uhm, I unfortuneatly fall in the "Twister" group.
Can someone put down 100 numbers and show how it happens.
Sorry!
M
If anyone reads what I post....which I'm not sure if they do LoL....I have been obsessing with a trigger.
The old "if a doz sleeps for 5, bet on it to hit" I said...its so bad, you may as well bet on it not to win.
So, when a dozen sleeps 4, bet it will sleep again....5!!!
I noticed that 4's don't sop there often.
So John is using this to say this.....
"if a dozen sleeps 4 times and that ends, twice, it won't happen the 3rd time."
so......1,1,2,3,2,3,1,1,3,2,2,1,3,2,3,3,1,1 1,2,2,1......and D3 won't stop sleeping on 4th, it will sleep on the 5th too. i.e bet D2,D1 that D3 will carry on sleeping.
( red was D2 sleeping 4 times)
I'm so confident its right...that I'm probably wrong!...LoL.
As I understand it...........
The same dozen must produce two consecutive "four gaps".
Then another dozen must produce one and you bet it won't produce two in a row as just happened above.
It would be a stretch for a body to be that unlucky.
Yes, Turner, I read your posts.
Sam
Ok, NOW I understand! Kind of...
Sam - I agree. You would have to be the most unlucky b@astad... if that happened to you, AND it happened so often for you to make a loss.
There is 1 thing I still don't get though. If the progression is 1,1,2,3 = for a total of 7 units,
what dozen do you bet? We're betting that dozen 1 doesn't fall again, so we have to bet for dozen 2 and 3?
Am I the only one who is retarded today? :wink:
John would you be so kind to clarify please?
Ciao
M
***EDIT - Nevermind - I am just being an idiot today. Read it properly and I understand now.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 20, 07:30 AM 2012
Four gap established for Sam.
Now, an example:
1st doz
not first
not first
not first
1st again..............this is the first gap
1st doz
not 1st
not 1st
not 1st
1st doz................This is the second gap.......
Say, 2nd doz
not 2nd
not 2nd
not 2nd
2nd doz..............this is the "pre-trigger"??
TIME TO BET??
3rd doz or what???..........Is this the trigger??
bet one
bet two
bet three
bet four
Maybe?
Sam
You almost have it Sam. The thing is once you have the Double. Then the pre--game trigger. You stay with the same dozen until the oppurtunity to bet arrives. As Follows.
DOZ 1--4
4----Double 4 gap game trigger
DOZ 2--4----Pre-bet trigger
4---Now bet this becomes a 5 or greater by covering dozen 1 and dozen 3
You only attempt one bet per qualifier, so had that first bet lost. We would then wait for the next pre-bet trigger and move to step 2 of the progression 3--3. Here is an example of a game taken all the way to the 4th step this should help many of you grasp the concept better.
DOZEN 3--4
4----DOUBLE 4 GAP GAME TRIGGER
DOZEN 1--4---PRE BET TRIGGER ATTEMPT 1
4---BET ONE LOST AS IT STAYED A 4
DOZEN 3--4---PRE BET TRIGGER ATTEMPT 2
4---BET TWO LOST AS IT STAYED A 4
DOZEN 2--4---PRE BET TRIGGER ATTEMPT 3
4---BET THREE LOST AS IT STAYED A 4
DOZEN 2--4---PRE BET TRIGGER ATTEMPT 4
5---BET FOUR WON AS IT BECAME A 5
That is an example of a game played to the fourth and final step of the progression 27--27.
As you can see random has to show you 5 doubles in a row to take your progression. And played Hit and Run. I have 748 games no loss so far. Its never lost. I have seen a loss twice. Once for Dozens. And once for Columns. And as most of these results were drawn from playing an RNG. I am very satisfied with this.
John, thanks for all your hard work on this. I think the key here is that these 4 gaps have to be "consecutive", is that right? How many opportunities are you finding in 1000 spin cycle? Have you kept track at all?
Many thanks.
Quote from: Wally Gator on Sep 20, 12:42 PM 2012
John, thanks for all your hard work on this. I think the key here is that these 4 gaps have to be "consecutive", is that right? How many opportunities are you finding in 1000 spin cycle? Have you kept track at all?
Many thanks.
Hello Gator. I have never waited more than 50---60 spins from tracking to Bet 1. Yes they are consecutive in the sense that you have to have 5 double 4 gaps in a row to be beaten. I am putting this method forward as playable live. But essentially an RNG beater. As it thrived against Bayes RNG. I know as GLC pointed out the method is both simple and complex at the same time. And that's because unlike the MATRIX METHODS. Where you have something in a set frame and can scrutinize it.
FIVE is unchained. Its allowing random to flow naturally. And as such can't be rushed. that's one of the reasons for its strength. I've said this a million times. If you can WAIT, you will WIN. FIVE is possibly the ultimate showcase of this. You can get a game in 30 spins. Or it might take 80. that's why its better suited to RNG. Everyone wants to know if RNGS are beatable. Well I know they are now so long as they are fair. Bayes is fair. And so is BV. I never really gave BV a proper look. Now I am glad I have.
My only gripe is TRACKING. If you could move the RNG without violating BV rules. In that you must not cancel bets. It would be a dream. And I would be a lot further along than I am at present. But the important fact is I now know I can beat a fair RNG in real money mode.. And it will be to Supermans and my benefit. Once the BR reaches 3 figures.
I'm assuming Superman has already put this in a bot :question: :twisted:
...because that's what he does!
Kom Superman - wys jou muis! :xd:
Regards,
M
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 20, 12:59 AM 2012
"Hello Nick a four gap is the following
DOZEN 1 FOR EXAMPLE 11-22-24-31-5. Notice the first and last numbers from dozen 1 are 4 apart this is a 4 gap" quote from John
@GLC I agree with you except above. ;D
This will require lots of spins. John estimate of 30-60 spins to get a game seems to be very generous.
No Matt that's how its broken down. Remember, you never know what random will give you. I have had a game completed in less than 30 spins. And have had to wait as many as 80---90 on a few occasions. But the average has panned out around the 30---60 zone.
QuoteI'm assuming Superman has already put this in a bot
Nope not yet, will get around to it but currently I closed my BV account so JLs' challenge account could be opened (a sacrifice I had to make sadly), having 2 BV accounts is a no no so don't really have the need for the method yet, maybe on the weekend I'll fiddle a bit.
QuoteKom Superman - wys jou muis!
Geen kaas nie, hy kry honger
Quote from: GLC on Sep 20, 12:23 AM 2012
Sam, I'm gong to venture some thoughts below. I hope they're on track.
Sam, I think this is what JL is saying. Another way to show it is the following:
123231232312323123231232312323123231232312323123231. This is what we're betting against happening. The 4 red 1's is where we bet on dozens 2 and 3. The 1st red 1 we bet 1-1 on doz 2 & 3, the 2nd red 1 we bet 3-3, the 3rd red 1 we bet 9-9 and the 4th red 1 we bet 27-27.
Now, I may not have all the factors involved in the above description, but I think that is the basic idea we're playing against. As you can see, the odds of random throwing that pattern at us is pretty darn rare.
I think it can take a very long time between betting opportunities. I don't doubt for a second that this has a very high strike rate. I just don't know if I have enough years of life left to get a 100 wins before sailing off into the wild blue yonder. :LoL: It's a joke JL, kind a. Hehehe, LoL etc....
I could be off base, but maybe I included enough explanation that JL can clean it up for us without having to start from scratch.
Back to you JL,
GLC
I've never had this much trouble explaining a method GLC. I will try several ways to illustrate what is very simplistic once you grasp it. So here is a game with just numbers to see if this will do it for more members
3-36-26-26-3-Z-15-19-1-3-28-27-28-4-24-3-11-23-26-19-6-27-6-12-8-29-12-20-3-15-11-27
DOZEN 1
4
4-----GAME TRIGGER DOUBLE 4 GAP
4
4
DOZEN 2
7
8
DOZEN 3
7
6
4---PRE BET TRIGGER
6----WIN BET 1 as it went beyond 4.
This is the result of a real game I played today against BV RNG As you can see it didn't take that many spins in this case 32 spins. From start to finish. Study this example over and over against the breakdowns of each dozen. And most of you should then understand it.
Another interesting observation since I created this method. No single DOZEN has ever shown me more than 6 consecutive 4 gaps in a row. As you can see that game produced 4 in a row for Dozen 1. The next gap was a 7. FOOD FOR THOUGHT? ??? ? I think so....
One more clarification and I think I got it to prepare a Tracker:
"3-36-26-26-3-Z-15-19-1-3-28-27-28-4-24-3-11-23-26-19-6-27-6-12-8-29-12-20-3-15-11-27
DOZEN 1
4
4-----GAME TRIGGER DOUBLE 4 GAP
4
4
DOZEN 2
7
8
DOZEN 3
7
6
4---PRE BET TRIGGER
6----WIN BET 1 as it went beyond 4. "
The numbers for the 4 Gap Pre Bet Trigger for Dozen 3 is shown in Red.
We should now start betting on Dozen 1 and Dozen 2 but where do we start this bet?
Do we start it immediately after the 4 Gap Pre Bet Trigger is formed, ie. on the #12 spin?
Or do we wait 4 more spins and start betting on the end of the gap, ie the #15, or the #11 spin?
Thanks Nick
Sorry JL I just dont get it
Its me not you so dont worry, im sure most ppl wil get it and thats what matters
Cheers
Quote from: Nickmsi on Sep 20, 02:49 PM 2012
One more clarification and I think I got it to prepare a Tracker:
"3-36-26-26-3-Z-15-19-1-3-28-27-28-4-24-3-11-23-26-19-6-27-6-12-8-29-12-20-3-15-11-27
DOZEN 1
4
4-----GAME TRIGGER DOUBLE 4 GAP
4
4
DOZEN 2
7
8
DOZEN 3
7
6
4---PRE BET TRIGGER
6----WIN BET 1 as it went beyond 4. "
The numbers for the 4 Gap Pre Bet Trigger for Dozen 3 is shown in Red.
We should now start betting on Dozen 1 and Dozen 2 but where do we start this bet?
Do we start it immediately after the 4 Gap Pre Bet Trigger is formed, ie. on the #12 spin?
Or do we wait 4 more spins and start betting on the end of the gap, ie the #15, or the #11 spin?
Thanks Nick
We start the bet as soon as DOZEN 3 produces a 3 gap. So using the example of the real game I played. Immediately after the 4 Gap Pre Bet Trigger. you had...
29-12-20-3----On the next spin we bet AGAINST another 4 GAP forming. Therefore we bet on dozen 1 and dozen 2. And as you can see in that real game example. It won when number 15 hit and eventually became a 6 GAP once number 27 hit.
Quote from: Twisteruk on Sep 20, 02:55 PM 2012
Sorry JL I just don't get it
Its me not you so don't worry, I'm sure most people wil get it and that's what matters
Cheers
Twister don't worry. Its simple but new thinking for many. The thing is its not that different to Matrix vertical 5. Where we were betting against 5 consecutive 5 gaps forming. In this case we are betting against 5 consecutive double 4 gaps forming. Its not going to be for everyone. But what I can tell you is whether it takes you a week or a year to understand it. This thing has the game beat. And any fair RNG too.
Hello John!
What about your method ZONE maybe we understand FIVE easier?
Greetings.
Quote from: donik7777 on Sep 20, 03:11 PM 2012
Hello John!
What about your method ZONE maybe we understand FIVE easier?
Greetings.
Nobody liked the Zone Donik. FIVE is IT. For me, its my best method I have originated by a country mile. Probably fitting few grasp it. What I'm saying to ALL of you. Is whether it takes you a week or a year to understand it. UNDERSTAND IT. Because as you will see over time. This thing has this game beaten hands down.
One question John...how many bets aprox.in a night session.....live dealer....
one can expect....didn't grasp it as yet fully,but as soon I get
the unswer will.
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 20, 03:38 PM 2012
One question John...how many bets aprox.in a night session.....live dealer....
one can expect....didn't grasp it as yet fully,but as soon I get
the answer will.
I can't say Flat. It depends on how many tables you have to play at. It can't be rushed. An average game takes about 30---60 spins to complete. This method is better suited to RNGs. I think its the anwser to beating them as long as they are fair. BV is certainly fair. Its breakdowns are identical to live wheels and Bayes RNG. And that is all I need to find out. The only RNG I have yet to put FIVE against is the seemingly notorious playtech RNGs, such as Ladbrokes and BET365 and the stand alone machines found in UK bookmakers like William Hill.. If they really do CHEAT. Five will expose them in a hurry.
Live online and BV it will be winning and more winning overall.
Kindly thanks for quick unswer...and now let strip this baby.
Quote from: superman on Sep 20, 01:58 PM 2012
Nope not yet, will get around to it but currently I closed my BV account so JLs' challenge account could be opened (a sacrifice I had to make sadly), having 2 BV accounts is a no no so don't really have the need for the method yet, maybe on the weekend I'll fiddle a bit.
Geen kaas nie, hy kry honger
Its Appreciated Superman your investment will come back to you many times over. Over the coming years. Once I reach 3 figures I will really step it up. And by that point many people will realize. The games very beatable. Whether it takes 1,2,3,4,5,6 however many years for this to sink in. I am ready to show them all.
Some data for anyone interested, ok its a bit hard to explain but here goes. The attached file has run through about 303 RNG BV NZ Real Money spins, each spin prints out the following data.
DA 1|3|0|4
DB 0|1|10
DC 3|0|2|0|0|0|1
#######################
The running results of each dozen and a seperator #####etc, let's look at DA (dozen a 1- 12)
1 is oldest and 4 is the last size of gap so dozen A slept 1 then 3 then 0 then 4 times, as you will see if you download the file I add the latest sleep to the right as and when the sleep has ended, any questions, I'll ask my dog as I can't be bothered going through all those lines LOL from the file you will be able to see the triggers or lack of them, maybe best to just scroll to the end of the file and look at the last 3 lines, as I said this was only 303 spins.
QuoteKindly thanks for quick answer...and now let strip this baby.
F_Lat, welcome to the world of RNG hope you enjoy your visit! I think if you are planning on playing this IN a casino, take food, water and a sleeping bag, you may be there for a while.
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 20, 04:02 PM 2012
Kindly thanks for quick answer...and now let strip this baby.
Like the terminology Flat. Never thought Id see the day the great F_LAT_INO would play my game. Im honoured. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: superman on Sep 20, 04:23 PM 2012
Some data for anyone interested, ok its a bit hard to explain but here goes. The attached file has run through about 303 RNG BV NZ Real Money spins, each spin prints out the following data.
DA 1|3|0|4
DB 0|1|10
DC 3|0|2|0|0|0|1
#######################
The running results of each dozen and a seperator #####etc, let's look at DA (dozen a 1- 12)
1 is oldest and 4 is the last size of gap so dozen A slept 1 then 3 then 0 then 4 times, as you will see if you download the file I add the latest sleep to the right as and when the sleep has ended, any questions, I'll ask my dog as I can't be bothered going through all those lines LoL from the file you will be able to see the triggers or lack of them, maybe best to just scroll to the end of the file and look at the last 3 lines, as I said this was only 303 spins.
F_Lat, welcome to the world of RNG hope you enjoy your visit! I think if you are planning on playing this IN a casino, take food, water and a sleeping bag, you may be there for a while.
Yes this method isnt best suited for B&M play. Its the RNG beater. Unless its a cheater.
Quote from: superman on Sep 20, 04:23 PM 2012
Some data for anyone interested, ok its a bit hard to explain but here goes. The attached file has run through about 303 RNG BV NZ Real Money spins, each spin prints out the following data.
DA 1|3|0|4
DB 0|1|10
DC 3|0|2|0|0|0|1
#######################
The running results of each dozen and a seperator #####etc, let's look at DA (dozen a 1- 12)
1 is oldest and 4 is the last size of gap so dozen A slept 1 then 3 then 0 then 4 times, as you will see if you download the file I add the latest sleep to the right as and when the sleep has ended, any questions, I'll ask my dog as I can't be bothered going through all those lines LoL from the file you will be able to see the triggers or lack of them, maybe best to just scroll to the end of the file and look at the last 3 lines, as I said this was only 303 spins.
F_Lat, welcome to the world of RNG hope you enjoy your visit! I think if you are planning on playing this IN a casino, take food, water and a sleeping bag, you may be there for a while.
O NO SIR....NOT ME....You haven't read my previous questions to John..
but nevertheless,no matter how long wait,if thing is 100% one or two
large bets are enough.RNG......maybe upstairs with St.Peter soon.LOL
Just a thought JL,
How do the winnings look with a 3 step prog 1/1 3/3 9/9 ?
JL tell me if I have it
You wait for any Dozen to sleep for 4 spins, 3 times, then on the 4th sleep bet that it goes on to sleep 5 spins by betting the other 2 dozens ?
Quote from: Twisteruk on Sep 20, 04:38 PM 2012
JL tell me if I have it
You wait for any Dozen to sleep for 4 spins, 3 times, then on the 4th sleep bet that it goes on to sleep 5 spins by betting the other 2 dozens ?
Yes Twister thats correct. But before you do that there has to be a double 4 gap trigger on a dozen. And a single 4 gap bet trigger on another dozen like this.
DOZEN 2---4
4----DOUBLE 4 GAP GAME TRIGGER
DOZEN 3---4----PRE BET TRIGGER
3---YOU NOW BET THIS BECOMES AT LEAST A 5
The reason Dozen 3 became our pick for the first bet is because it produced the very first 4 gap AFTER the double 4 gap game trigger on dozen 2. And thats how it always goes. The first dozen to give you the Pre bet trigger is your first bet.
Quote from: amk on Sep 20, 04:31 PM 2012
Just a thought JL,
How do the winnings look with a 3 step prog 1/1 3/3 9/9 ?
It will take me some time to give you that data AMK. It has periods where you could be taken to the 4th step twice quite close together. Then other times you can win over 30 times without the 4th step. I think its worth the 80 point risk from what I have achieved so far over 860/0
Could you give us a break down of your wins per bet JL, like in code 4.
Using a 4 step prog is the best, but that 3 step is tempting.
I might occasionally wait for 1 trigger then start a 3 step prog with higher units.
Some what similar to a double lose with PATTERN BREAKER.
Flat might like this?
How have those 4 Uncles been dancing :)
I need clarification on just what constitutes a "consecutive four gap"
Is it..........
3rd doz
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
3rd
3rd
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
3rd
I guess what I'm asking is: Do the four gaps have to appear immediately one right after the other as in my example?
Sam
John
I'm in Cape Canaveral, Florida and do not have time to run the numbers in the example you gave. But I will soon.
ASIDE: Saw a real movie from the space station. Guess what floated by? A roulette wheel!! NO, a roll of duct tape. Honest to God!
Quote from: amk on Sep 20, 04:31 PM 2012
Just a thought JL,
How do the winnings look with a 3 step prog 1/1 3/3 9/9 ?
What about if we pass first virtual lost?
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 20, 08:54 PM 2012
I need clarification on just what constitutes a "consecutive four gap"
Is it..........
3rd doz
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
3rd
3rd
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
any but 3rd
3rd
I guess what I'm asking is: Do the four gaps have to appear immediately one right after the other as in my example?
Sam
John
I'm in Cape Canaveral, Florida and do not have time to run the numbers in the example you gave. But I will soon.
ASIDE: Saw a real movie from the space station. Guess what floated by? A roulette wheel!! NO, a roll of duct tape. Honest to God!
1,2,3,2,1,2,2,3,1xxxxxxxx3,2,2,1,3,2,2,2
This represents 1st 2 consecutive 4 gaps for Dozen 1 so you bet here against it happening again for Dozen 3 by betting 1u each on Dozen 1 and 2. Its explained in reply #31 here.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 20, 02:17 PM 2012
I've never had this much trouble explaining a method GLC. I will try several ways to illustrate what is very simplistic once you grasp it. So here is a game with just numbers to see if this will do it for more members
3-36-26-26-3-Z-15-19-1-3-28-27-28-4-24-3-11-23-26-19-6-27-6-12-8-29-12-20-3-15-11-27
DOZEN 1
4
4-----GAME TRIGGER DOUBLE 4 GAP
4
4
DOZEN 2
7
8
DOZEN 3
7
6
4---PRE BET TRIGGER
6----WIN BET 1 as it went beyond 4.
This is the result of a real game I played today against BV RNG As you can see it didn't take that many spins in this case 32 spins. From start to finish. Study this example over and over against the breakdowns of each dozen. And most of you should then understand it.
Another interesting observation since I created this method. No single DOZEN has ever shown me more than 6 consecutive 4 gaps in a row. As you can see that game produced 4 in a row for Dozen 1. The next gap was a 7. FOOD FOR THOUGHT? ??? ? I think so....
I posted a method about 5 gaps but for different dozens. So we bet against this happening DxxxxD
4 times in a row for any dozen. It went 6 times just once in around 700 bets on live wheel and air ball. Its in Testing zone under "No wake up dozen bet" header. I just got tired of testing it further but tracking was pretty fast. ;D
So, John, is Rob correct? (Thanks Rob..)
Does a "consecutive four gap" look like this?
1
x
x
x
1
x
x
x
1
The red "1" serves to close the first gap and open the second.
Is that correct?
Sam
yes Sam :)
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 21, 07:07 AM 2012
yes Sam :)
For the GAME TRIGGER the double four gap.dont have to be consecutive. You simply target the first dozen that shows you Two four gaps. Here are two examples of what could be you Game Trigger.
DOZEN 1--4
4
DOZEN 1--4
6
5
4
Both of rhese could be game triggers. Do you understand this??
Thanks John, that explains it.
We thought they had to be consecutive 4 gaps.
Now we should get more betting opportunities.
Nick
Quote from: Nickmsi on Sep 21, 11:00 AM 2012
Thanks John, that explains it.
We thought they had to be consecutive 4 gaps.
Now we should get more betting opportunities.
Nick
Hi Nick, keep in mind though this is ONLY for the GAME TRIGGER. Once you start your betting campaign you are betting against consecutive 4 gaps forming. I wondered why it was taking you so long to get triggers in your testing.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 21, 01:47 AM 2012
I posted a method about 5 gaps but for different dozens. So we bet against this happening DxxxxD
4 times in a row for any dozen. It went 6 times just once in around 700 bets on live wheel and air ball. Its in Testing zone under "No wake up dozen bet" header. I just got tired of testing it further but tracking was pretty fast. ;D
You should take it a bit more seriously Matt. There is serious potential here. I see it as an excellent sub bet while tracking FIVE. Because you don't know when a dozen will tag together 4 consecutive 4 GAPS. But I would be more than willing to risk 80 points against it tagging 8 consecutive 4 GAPS. And the reason for this enthusiasm is my years playing the ZONE. No dozen is EVER likely to go that long without at least producing a 5 GAP.
It could be even more solid than FIVE itself. But of course the price is that patience to wait for the 4 by 4 trigger. Those who have that patience are going to win some serious loot. Even an RNG has never shown me more than 6 in a row. 8? ??? ? THE HOLY ONE. This is the kind of thing that should be bot tested. Random has limits I keep telling you all this. FIND THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I am surprised no one thought of running this idea againt 3 GAPS. They are more frequent than 4 GAPS. Could be the solution for LIVE WHEEL PLAY.
[quote author=Johnlegend link=topic=10274.msg92282#msg92282 date=1348242572
And I am surprised no one thought of running this idea againt 3 GAPS. They are more frequent than 4 GAPS. Could be the solution for LIVE WHEEL PLAY.
--You wrong John,am traying to adapt it for live wheel/testing/but not on dozens but
Ninefoldozen/that is how I call it,9 numb.bets/and presently am at testing zone.
The opportunity to bet can not be very often, it could of course be fixed with larger chips value.
The progressions is it to 27 or 81?
Then if you have 100% trust in it 100 Euro chips will do.
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 21, 01:13 PM 2012
The opportunity to bet can not be very often, it could of course be fixed with larger chips value.
The progressions is it to 27 or 81?
Then if you have 100% trust in it 100 Euro chips will do.
Ralph the opportunity to bet is enough especially on an RNG. The progression is the classic 1--3--9--27. 80 points on the line. I have alot of trust in it as I suspect anyone would if they had won over 850 times in a row as I now have. Most of them on an RNG.
I dont say it never loses because Ive seen a loss on columns and Dozens. I say that played hit and run its going to win very well. I am always happy if my 80 point risk can average 200/1 minumum. And everyone else should be too. But at the moment I am 867/0 And its looking like the first method I have ever played to give me 1000/1
You have to stop worrying too much about how long it might take. Worry about how long it will win. RNG is definately the way to go with this one. But I believe theres more scope in this idea to be investigated. You have to be willing to do the work. I cant do it for you. I can present an idea I know is killing this game right now. How you take it from there is completely up to you.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 21, 04:01 PM 2012
Ralph the opportunity to bet is enough especially on an RNG. The progression is the classic 1--3--9--27. 80 points on the line. I have a lot of trust in it as I suspect anyone would if they had won over 850 times in a row as I now have. Most of them on an RNG.
I don't say it never loses because I've seen a loss on columns and Dozens. I say that played hit and run its going to win very well. I am always happy if my 80 point risk can average 200/1 minumum. And everyone else should be too. But at the moment I am 867/0 And its looking like the first method I have ever played to give me 1000/1
You have to stop worrying too much about how long it might take. Worry about how long it will win. RNG is definately the way to go with this one. But I believe theres more scope in this idea to be investigated. You have to be willing to do the work. I can't do it for you. I can present an idea I know is killing this game right now. How you take it from there is completely up to you.
Tell me John,are you playing fun mode RNG????Pressume you are.
Do you think you would have such results playing it real ?????
Why not doing last and report back.
Am sure the results wont be same,,,what you think.
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 21, 04:49 PM 2012
Tell me John,are you playing fun mode RNG????Pressume you are.
Do you think you would have such results playing it real ??? ??
Why not doing last and report back.
Am sure the results won't be same,,,what you think.
Flat I'm playing BV real money. And its no different to the Fun mode. Five can beat it just like it was beating Bayes RNG and the fun mode on BV. The thing is this flat. Its so hard for random to overcome this one. That any RNG that throws up loss after loss will definately be cheating. I have yet to try the playtech RNGs they are notorious for throwing up ridiculous results that you would grow old and die before seeing on a live wheel.
But BV is a fair RNG flat in real mode.
All I can say is good luck....just don't trust em...
Hello John!
What about pass first virtual lost? Because i know many player affraid big progression.
Cheers.
Hi John.
I'm pretty i understand the method... Could you please clarify that once we receive our triggers and commence are betting, we make consecutive bets until a win or loss?... Or would we make one bet and if we lose then start retracking for a new trigger?
Quote from: Twisteruk on Sep 20, 02:55 PM 2012
Sorry JL I just don't get it
Its me not you so don't worry, I'm sure most people wil get it and that's what matters
Cheers
+1 with you twister, no matter what I do to try and understand I can't :/ I'll persevere though....hopefully I@ll clock it
Hang in there Subby and Twister . . . I have a Tracker done that John is currently checking for accuracy before I post it.
Nick
Thanks so much Nick!
Can somebody make simulating test Five and say how many times win?
1 step
2 step
3 step
4 step
Best regards.
1, We track the dozens until one of them produces two consecutive 4 gaps as in the example below.
My red..........
John,
The reason people thought you meant consecutive is because you used the word "consecutive".
People.......
Call me a grouchy old bastard if you will, but this is why I ask a hundred questions. If you spend forty or fifty hours testing something and then find out you're doing it wrong.........
Well, it rankles my curd!!
Sam
QuoteWe track the dozens until one of them produces two consecutive 4 gaps as in the example below
and then ?? when and what gets bet on and for how long
if you follow Johns explanation it states,
after 2 consecutive 4 gaps (this is pre-game trigger) we track further till we got another (single) 4 gap.
this becomes the game trigger in that dozen. (were the single 4 gap is)
from the moment that this dozen makes a 3 gap you bet the other 2 doz's 1 time against the fact that your trigger dozen wont become a 4 gap.
but there is a point of interest,
IF after our 2 consecutive 4 gaps the next single 4 gap falls in the same dozen there has to be a larger gap between it ie 2 x a 4 gap then a 5/6/7+ gap and then another 4 gap 4 4 6 4
then you can play that dozen after it goes in a 3 gap again against forming a 4 gap.
hope this explains it :)
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 22, 03:08 AM 2012
if you follow Johns explanation it states,
after 2 consecutive 4 gaps (this is pre-game trigger) we track further till we got another (single) 4 gap.
this becomes the game trigger in that dozen. (were the single 4 gap is)
from the moment that this dozen makes a 3 gap you bet the other 2 doz's 1 time against the fact that your trigger dozen won't become a 4 gap.
but there is a point of interest,
IF after our 2 consecutive 4 gaps the next single 4 gap falls in the same dozen there has to be a larger gap between it ie 2 x a 4 gap then a 5/6/7+ gap and then another 4 gap 4 4 6 4
then you can play that dozen after it goes in a 3 gap again against forming a 4 gap.
hope this explains it :)
Well done Stephan, you have grasped it totally. Just remember though the GAME TRIGGER can be either of theses.
DOZEN 1--4--4
DOZEN 1-4--7--5--4
That was my error when explaining the method. And the reason Nick thought tracking takes forever.
game trigger or pre game trigger ?
because i use nicks file also to test and dont get any trigger
for ex i see this in the file
1 2 3
5
5
4
4
5
4
5
5+
5
4
5+
5+
5+
5+
5+
4
4
5+
4
5+
4
5+
maybe you can better explain now what is first trigger and second one to start betting :)
So there is a tracker for it already?
just making everything completely correct that its good in one time :)
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 21, 05:46 PM 2012
All I can say is good luck....just don't trust em...
We will see Flat. At the moment there is absolutely no difference between REAL AND FUN modes. The only problem with BV is not being able to sit spins out. And having to lose points to move the rng. Otherwise its forward all the way. So I am guessing from your attitude you had a bad experience??
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 22, 04:13 AM 2012
for ex i see this in the file
1 2 3 i think i found it in the reply's what i was looking for
5
5
4
4
5
4
5
5+
5
4 1st trigger 2*4 gap in doz1
5+
5+
5+
5+
5+
4 2nd trigger doz 1start betting doz 2/3 after a 3 gap
4
5+ won, meanwhile another trigger in doz 2
4 another trigger in doz 1
5+
4 another trigger for doz 3
5+
maybe you can better explain now what is first trigger and second one to start betting :)
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 22, 04:13 AM 2012
for ex i see this in the file
1 2 3
5
5
4
4
5
4
5
5+
5
4
5+
5+
5+
5+
5+
4
4
5+
4
5+
4
5+
maybe you can better explain now what is first trigger and second one to start betting :)
In this example Dozen 1 produced the GAME TRIGGER. Why? Because it was the first dozen to produce TWO 4 GAPS. That is the point you must take onboard first.
Now, once you have identified your GAME TRIGGER. You now continue tracking until you get your PRE BET TRIGGER. This basically will be the first dozen to produce a 4 gap after the GAME TRIGGER. Again this could happen on the SAME DOZEN that gave us our GAME TRIGGER. We then bet against that 4gap producing another 4 GAP consecutively. If it doesnt we have won the game.If it does. We continue tracking until another 4 gap forms on any of the three dozens.
We now bet using step two of the progression that this doesnt produce a consecutive 4 gap. If it doesnt we have won. If it does we now wait for the Next 4 gap on any dozen and go to step three of the progression. So we repeat this process for a maximum of 4 attempts. So far its been successful for 870 games.
DOZEN 3
7
4
6
4----GAME TRIGGER
DOZEN 1
6
4----PRE BET TRIGGER
4----BET ONE LOST as it became a consecutive 4 gap
DOZEN 3
4----PRE BET TRIGGER
6----BET TWO WON as it didnt become another 4 gap, game OVER.
got it correctly now :thumbsup:
maybe one last question.
why do we exactly wait for that 1st double 4 gap trigger and 2nd single 4 gap trigger ?
and dont start straight away betting after the verry first 4 gap ?
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 22, 05:28 AM 2012
got it correctly now :thumbsup:
maybe one last question.
why do we exactly wait for that 1st double 4 gap trigger and 2nd single 4 gap trigger ?
and don't start straight away betting after the verry first 4 gap ?
Saturation, If you start betting after the first 4 gap you will lose your progression too often. If I'm being totally purist and honest. Even the non consecutive game trigger is a compromise. And the times I've seen a loss, they were the trigger.
Patience beats this game nothing else. Five pure double 4 gaps is very. Very hard for random to form. 8 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen equally hard.
You wait, you win. Its that simple.
okay thx,
@ Nick, i think the tracker is okay then.
Hopefully there is'nt any mistake anymore :)
Stephan
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 22, 04:38 AM 2012
We will see Flat. At the moment there is absolutely no difference between REAL AND FUN modes. The only problem with BV is not being able to sit spins out. And having to lose points to move the rng. Otherwise its forward all the way. So I am guessing from your attitude you had a bad experience??
--Not me/as never play on line/but my friend/whom I scream every day not to play/
lost fortune on BV.......and he was always winning in fun mode.This should tell you
something.
John,
still have a question that i cant solve whilest looking at the tracker.
lets say you got your trigger for betting on doz 1.
do you stay on doz 1 till you get your chance to actually bet against the 4 gap.
or do you jump to another trigger in another doz if on doz 1 form a few 1 and 2 gaps ?
ex.
1 2 3
4
4
5
5
4
4 here i got my trigger on doz 1
1 doz 1 falls directly
do i stay on doz 1 until a chance for betting comes
2 4 or do i jump to this trigger in doz 2 ?
Didn't code 4 go to 1000/1 JL?
I think BV will allow you to play for a longtime.
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 22, 01:33 PM 2012
--Not me/as never play on line/but my friend/whom I scream every day not to play/
lost fortune on BV.......and he was always winning in fun mode.This should tell you
something.
How much was he betting when he started losing on BV Flat. I'm only betting pennies at the moment so no alarm bells are going off. When I reach a point where I am winning several euro a session we will get the story. If it suddenly starts losing too frequently. Also your method has to be solid.
FIVE will beat any fair format of roulette. The parameters are asking random real or manmade to do too much.
Quote from: amk on Sep 22, 04:08 PM 2012
Didn't code 4 go to 1000/1 JL?
I think BV will allow you to play for a longtime.
No AMK I got to 650 once with CODE 4. I started losing more frequently in recent times. Still profitable but a lower strikerate around 120/1
Yes, I remember now JL. It did get to 1000/1 but the first loss was at 650.
This says a lot for FIVE, at 900 or so now.
Great stuff :)
Congrats on Five JohnLegend :thumbsup: Looking forward to your inside numbers system.
John...good to see 5 is doing well and thanks for being generous with your ideas.
I really dont get this statement though
The parameters are asking random real or manmade to do too much.
Do too much of what? Random isnt sat there like some mad proffessor producing numbers.
Random isnt a Noun.
ran·dom
â€, â€,[ran-duhm]
adjective
1.
proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers.
I think JL is looking for something that does not happen that often turnerfeck.
Random has limits, like 24 reds etc. If we can find a "loophole" within shorter stats then we can create a small margin for us to collect units.
FIVE is demonstrating this. It looks to have a certain max aspect which random does not produce a lot and is not too taxing on our BR.
this story about random having sort of borders remainds me when i was young and fishing and thought that certain breed of fish never gets bigger than my finger because that what i was catching...by the time went and i did grow older i understood that fishes they do get bigger you just have to give some time.... :D :thumbsup:
Show me more than 24 reds in 10 million spins maestro.
This is the concept we are working with but then looking for such maximums (in proportion) within different stats.
Quote from: amk on Sep 22, 05:32 PM 2012
I think JL is looking for something that does not happen that often turnerfeck.
Random has limits, like 24 reds etc. If we can find a "loophole" within shorter stats then we can create a small margin for us to collect units.
FIVE is demonstrating this. It looks to have a certain max aspect which random does not produce a lot and is not too taxing on our BR.
That said AMK.....when the big moment comes...in Code4, Divide and Conquer, 5..what ever,and we place our 1U on Doz 1 and 1U on Dozen 2 ..the odds of that bet winning are exactly and absolutly the same as that bet any other time you walk up to the Roulette table.
I track for 5 minutes looking for complex patterns and triggers, bet 2 dozens...or I say eeny meeny miny mo on my fingers to pick 2 Dozens...same exact winning chances.
This is where I'm uneasy with all this.
It reminds me of the difference between Astrology and astronomy.
(watch this space for Turners eeny meeny miny mo system :thumbsup:)
I don't know turnerfeck,
This is a new concept in many ways.
Either way, JL has been doing well the last few years, as has Flat.
Quote from: turnerfeck on Sep 22, 06:31 PM 2012
Watch this space for Turners eeny meeny miny mo system :thumbsup: )
I like it! :thumbsup:
"That said AMK.....when the big moment comes...in Code4, Divide and Conquer, 5..what ever,and we place our 1U on Doz 1 and 1U on Dozen 2 ..the odds of that bet winning are exactly and absolutly the same as that bet any other time you walk up to the Roulette table."
This is what troubles me about all of these systems. Turner is right. He can't spell "absolutely", but he's right in his meaning!
Lighten up, Bro. That was TwoCat humor!
Sam
Quote from: GLC on Sep 22, 09:29 PM 2012
I like it! :thumbsup:
George, love the new photo ......
Quote from: Wally Gator on Sep 22, 11:41 PM 2012
George, love the new photo ......
Sweet sixteen and already been kissed. Back then, that wasn't as common as it is today. What a difference 50 years can make! :'(
Quote from: GLC on Sep 23, 01:15 AM 2012
Sweet sixteen and already been kissed. Back then, that wasn't as common as it is today. What a difference 50 years can make! :'(
In my country it should not be about kisses! ;D
Quote from: maestro on Sep 22, 05:39 PM 2012
this story about random having sort of borders remainds me when i was young and fishing and thought that certain breed of fish never gets bigger than my finger because that what i was catching...by the time went and i did grow older i understood that fishes they do get bigger you just have to give some time.... :D :thumbsup:
Like Amk said 24 reds doesn't happen often. But how would you turn that into a playable profitable method??. You can't unless you sit there waiting for 14 reds and then start betting. Still risking several hundred points. Its not realistic.
Its the same with a sleeping dozen. Its tempting to chase one when you see it sleep for 18 plus spins. Knowing the 30 spin barrier is rarely broken.
What I attempt to do is strike the balance between playable and invincible. The longer the wait, the surer the win.
I've known for years random struggles to produce certain things. FIVE is simply taking advantage of one of many.
8 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen is another to take advantage of. Even with random some kind of order must come. Otherwise there would never be certain breakdowns happening everytime I track spins.
Those gaps that random forms always come as sure as night follows day. You never see a hundred spins for example without gaps greater than 3. It can't happen. Probability is randoms keeper. And always pulls it into line eventually. FIVE is simply based around something random isn't very good at. Showing us FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS. I would say to any interested in this method track the dozens and columns for this method. But play it in its strictest form. FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS.
So your game trigger Must be for example.
DOZEN 1----4--4
COLUMN B----4--4
And you will get a faster turnover, without compromise. I've never seen or run into 5 consecutive double 4 gaps. Or 8 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen or column. These are virtual limits for random. Poimts that will be.breached very seldom. In the meantime we collect the profit.
I would like someone to bot test 8 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen. Because I think its a very possible HOLY GRAIL. Even an RNG. Can't get past 6. Its got me curious.
John,
can you please answer on my reply 86 (previous page) so i can continue on the tracker :)
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 23, 04:30 AM 2012
John,
can you please answer on my reply 86 (previous page) so i can continue on the tracker :)
You take dozen 2 as your first bet in that example Stephan. Its ALWAYS the first dozen to present you with a 4 GAP. After the game trigger.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Sep 22, 04:59 PM 2012
Congrats on Five JohnLegend :thumbsup: Looking forward to your inside numbers system.
Inside numbers Proof????
Quote from: turnerfeck on Sep 22, 06:31 PM 2012
That said AMK.....when the big moment comes...in Code4, Divide and Conquer, 5..what ever,and we place our 1U on Doz 1 and 1U on Dozen 2 ..the odds of that bet winning are exactly and absolutly the same as that bet any other time you walk up to the Roulette table.
I track for 5 minutes looking for complex patterns and triggers, bet 2 dozens...or I say eeny meeny miny mo on my fingers to pick 2 Dozens...same exact winning chances.
This is where I'm uneasy with all this.
It reminds me of the difference between Astrology and astronomy.
(watch this space for Turners eeny meeny miny mo system :thumbsup: )
I don't roll with that chain of thought Turner. The odds may in theory be the same. In the REALITY of random its getting harder and harder for it to produce that double. And the reason is its keeper. Mr probability is pulling it back into line. Like its saying youve shown us some 4s now I want some 5s or more. This I know from my years with the ZONE. It can't get around it. Its got to break back into producing 5 plus gaps at a certain frequency. And it always does. On that RARE occasion it doesn't. I will suffer my first loss. But how long that will take is anyones guess. In 882 games it hasn't broken the pattern. I need 80 wins to match a progression. And I have 11 times my progression so far.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 23, 04:51 AM 2012
You take dozen 2 as your first bet in that example Stephan. Its ALWAYS the first dozen to present you with a 4 GAP. After the game trigger.
Then you need to have a good look at it :)
Doz 2 gave me the pre trigger 2 * 4 gaps
then doz 1 gave me the game trigger
then doz1 gives me a 1gap and a 2 gap and meanwhile doz2 gives me a 4 gap .
do i stay on doz1 till i get my 3 gap trigger to bet or do i jump to the new trigger in doz2
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 23, 04:17 AM 2012
Like Amk said 24 reds doesn't happen often. But how would you turn that into a playable profitable method. You can't unless you sit there waiting for 14 reds and then start betting. Still risking several hundred points.
Its the same with a sleeping dozen. Its tempting to chase one when you see it sleep for 18 plus spins. Knowing the 30 spin barrier is rarely broken.
What I attempt to do is strike the balance between playable and invincible. The longer the wait, the surer the win.
I've known for years random struggles to produce certain things. FIVE is simply taking advantage of one of many.
8 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen is another to take advantage of. Even with random some kind of order must come. Otherwise there would never be certain breakdowns happening everytime I track spins.
Those gaps that random forms always come as sure as night follows day. You never see a hundred spins for example without gaps greater than 3. I can't happen. Probability is randoms keeper. And always pulls it into line eventually. FIVE is simply based around something random isn't very good at. Showing us FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS. I would say to any interested in this method track the dozens and columns for this method. But play it in its strictest form. FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS.
So your game trigger Must be for example.
DOZEN 1----4--4
COLUMN B----4--4
And you will get a faster turnover, without comprosmise. I've never seen or run into 5 consecutive double 4 gaps. Or 8 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen or column. These are virtual limits for random. Poimts that will be.breached very seldom. In the meantime we collect the profit.
I would like someone to bot test 8 consecutive 4 gaps pn a single dozen. Because I think its a very possible HOLY GRAIL. Even an RNG. Can't get past 6. Its got me curious.
From a statistical point of view 8 consecutive 4 gaps happen as often as 1 Dz hitting 8 times in a row so once in 6400 unless there is some other reason that 1 Dz behaves differently in some patterns. If there is other reason and you can find it then you have a Holy Grail. ;D Who knows?
Maybe RNG is our ally in this case.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 23, 05:06 AM 2012
From a statistical point of view 8 consecutive 4 gaps happen as often as 1 Dz hitting 8 times in a row so once in 6400 unless there is some other reason that 1 Dz behaves differently in some patterns. If there is other reason and you can find it then you have a Holy Grail. ;D Who knows?
Maybe RNG is our ally in this case.
Hey Matt im curious is that you in the Avatar. You look like a ladies man, a player or something lol.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 23, 05:16 AM 2012
Hey Matt I'm curious is that you in the Avatar. You look like a ladies man, a player or something LoL.
Yeah its me John. I need an extra income from gambling to keep up with it. ;D
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 23, 05:04 AM 2012
Then you need to have a good look at it :)
Doz 2 gave me the pre trigger 2 * 4 gaps
then doz 1 gave me the game trigger
then doz1 gives me a 1gap and a 2 gap and meanwhile doz2 gives me a 4 gap .
do i stay on doz1 till i get my 3 gap trigger to bet or do i jump to the new trigger in doz2
Stephan I want you to post the numbers as they dropped. then I can give you a precise anwser. Its impossible for me to know what came first when simply looking at the gaps on your chart. So give me the numbers and I will be able to give you a satisfactory reply, thanks.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 23, 05:18 AM 2012
Yeah its me John. I need an extra income from gambling to keep up with it. ;D
Lol, I like it. Yes women can be a strain on the pocket. :twisted:
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 23, 05:21 AM 2012
LoL, I like it. Yes women can be a strain on the pocket. :twisted:
Apparently FLAT had the same problem. ;D
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 23, 05:06 AM 2012
From a statistical point of view 8 consecutive 4 gaps happen as often as 1 Dz hitting 8 times in a row so once in 6400 unless there is some other reason that 1 Dz behaves differently in some patterns. If there is other reason and you can find it then you have a Holy Grail. ;D Who knows?
Maybe RNG is our ally in this case.
I don't know Matt. I think random can get stuck on one dozen 8 times in a row a lot easier than it can produce 8 consecutive 4 gaps. The reason being the number of spins involved. 8 times 4 is in effect 32 spins. What random has to do to produce that is take a dozen or column out of the order of things for quite a long time. Its also the symmetry of exactly 8 4s in a row. Its almost too perfect. So yes statistically certain things should be happening. But in reality I am not seeing them.
That's all, its an observation over thousands of played games that brings me to these conclusions.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 23, 05:23 AM 2012
Apparently FLAT had the same problem. ;D
Lol. I bet.
sorry, dont have the numbers anymore but simulated something to get the same result what i'm talking about.
so do i stay on doz 1 till i get my bet trigger after 3 gaps or do i jump to doz 2 ?
hope its clear now :)
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 22, 10:04 PM 2012
"That said AMK.....when the big moment comes...in Code4, Divide and Conquer, 5..what ever,and we place our 1U on Doz 1 and 1U on Dozen 2 ..the odds of that bet winning are exactly and absolutly the same as that bet any other time you walk up to the Roulette table."
This is what troubles me about all of these systems. Turner is right. He can't spell "absolutely", but he's right in his meaning!
Lighten up, Bro. That was TwoCat humor!
Sam :thumbsup:
Sam
I have many foreign friends at work and every one of them can spell better than me
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 23, 05:30 AM 2012
sorry, don't have the numbers anymore but simulated something to get the same result what i'm talking about.
so do i stay on doz 1 till i get my bet trigger after 3 gaps or do i jump to doz 2 ?
hope its clear now :)
Stephan what I am asking you is which dozen was FIRST to show you two 4 GAPS?
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 23, 05:43 AM 2012
Stephan what I am asking you is which dozen was FIRST to show you two 4 GAPS?
just like in the picture doz 2 then doz 1 gave me the first single 4 gap
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 23, 05:46 AM 2012
just like in the picture doz 2 then doz 1 gave me the first single 4 gap
Stephan my question is which gave you TWO 4 gaps first???
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 23, 05:18 AM 2012
Yeah its me John. I need an extra income from gambling to keep up with it. ;D
Your a bit of a looker robeen. I like your red top you are wearing
Quote from: turnerfeck on Sep 23, 05:49 AM 2012
Your a bit of a looker robeen. I like your red top you are wearing
Yes Turner he is the Brad Pitt of eastern Europe.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 23, 05:48 AM 2012
Stephan my question is which gave you TWO 4 gaps first???
dont i understand you're question or whats wrong :question:
doz 2 gave me the first 2 pre-game trigger gaps then doz 1 gave me a single 4 gap as game trigger.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 23, 05:30 AM 2012
sorry, don't have the numbers anymore but simulated something to get the same result what i'm talking about.
so do i stay on doz 1 till i get my bet trigger after 3 gaps or do i jump to doz 2 ?
hope its clear now :)
Hi Stepkevh,
Using your numbers, attached is my understanding of Johns bet
B 27
bettor,
Yes thats it, i dont have a bet in doz 1 because of the numbers.
But the question is the following.
You see in your excel file that there comes a new trigger in doz 2...
Do we follow the trigger in doz 2 or do we stay on doz 1 until we get a betting opportunity ?
Stephan
John....
i learned something today then....and I havnt spotted this in any of your work before (or anyones really)
The basic reported E/C's, dozens, streets etc and single number chances show (in the millions of spins we check) that they have a limit...a top end, for instance, red won't show more than 24 straight hits.
Actually, if we were lawyers, we would say "we have never seen Red repeat more than 24 times. We have never seen doz/col repeat more than 15 times"
So you are looking to see if some other undocumented pattern has a limit that we can monopolise on, other then the documented table bets.
its got me thinking....thanks.
Turner
Quote from: turnerfeck on Sep 23, 03:25 PM 2012
John....
i learned something today then....and I havnt spotted this in any of your work before (or anyones really)
The basic reported E/C's, dozens, streets etc and single number chances show (in the millions of spins we check) that they have a limit...a top end, for instance, red won't show more than 24 straight hits.
Actually, if we were lawyers, we would say "we have never seen Red repeat more than 24 times. We have never seen doz/col repeat more than 15 times"
So you are looking to see if some other undocumented pattern has a limit that we can monopolise on, other then the documented table bets.
its got me thinking....thanks.
Turner
For long time nobody have seen a human run 100 meters in 10 seconds.
All records can be beaten, every time anybody see 24 reds, its about 48% chance for a new record.
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 23, 04:25 PM 2012
For long time nobody have seen a human run 100 meters in 10 seconds.
All records can be beaten, every time anybody see 24 reds, its about 48% chance for a new record.
Ralph
I'm not saying I agree with what I said...or disagree...I'm just noting what JL is trying to do.
That said....comparing random to 100m race is abstract. Humans find better athletic diets and training..... track surfaces and running shoes. Training using computers. basically...technology and sport science.
Random is just random. i don't think it evolved in any way.
Hello Ralph,
I don't know if any of us have ever seen 24 reds in live results. It might take several lifetimes for you to see this event.
This stat shows us that within the game there are thresholds for random. Ofcourse 60 red is possible. However, I think that 1 billion spins will not even reveal this event. My conclusion is that we can find such rare events (24 red) or events close enough to it, but in proportion. Within and perhaps in combination with smaller stats. We only need to create a small margin of success. FIVE is showing this.
Interestingly, during the Olympic 100 meters 6 out of 7 runners ran under 10 seconds, all but one. I think random has limits, for the moment :)
Perhaps it might be best to study dealer signature. Can be very effective....
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 23, 06:09 AM 2012
don't i understand you're question or what's wrong :question:
doz 2 gave me the first 2 pre-game trigger gaps then doz 1 gave me a single 4 gap as game trigger.
Yes you would stay with dozen 1 as it gave you the pre bet trigger Stephan.
Hello John!
Can you say how many times you won on from 895 games
1 step
2 step
3 step
4 step?
Greetings.
Tellme if you ever saw
RRBBRBRBBRBRRRBBRBRRBRRRBB
You have less chance to see the above before you see 24 red.
Sure wish someone would post some clear, concise, and accurate instructions. Sure would help if the dozens were A, B, and C and something like this was posted:
1.....A
32...C
13...B
14...B
12...A
7.....A
35...C
21...B
36...C
3.....A
Now there we have two four gaps in the first dozen. Some kind soul post what should happen next.
Sam
Sorry post deleted . Wrong section.
Tamnino
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 23, 10:33 PM 2012
Sure wish someone would post some clear, concise, and accurate instructions. Sure would help if the dozens were A, B, and C and something like this was posted:
1.....A
32...C
13...B
14...B
12...A
7.....A
35...C
21...B
36...C
3.....A
Now there we have two four gaps in the first dozen. Some kind soul post what should happen next.
Sam
Hi Sam
Have a look at the attachment in post #126
Regards
B 27
Hi John
How many games a day do you play this and is it hit and run play?
Regards
B 27
Just hold on a bit Sam, i'm close at finishing the tracker.
Just struggling with some formulas for getting the betselection right.
But i'm almost there :)
Stephan
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Sep 24, 12:08 AM 2012
Hi John
How many games a day do you play this and is it hit and run play?
Regards
B 27
Hi Bettor27 depends on how busy I am 10--20 normally. I always play H n R style.
Quote from: Turner on Sep 23, 05:49 AM 2012
Your a bit of a looker robeen. I like your red top you are wearing
@ Turner & John
I always liked English dry sense of humor ;D I guess its time to change my top.
Hi John
Came across my first loss in testing.
At least I think its a loss and the data is from Wiesbaden January 2010.
Just wanted you to check over the data (attached) to confirm it would have been an actual loss.
Regards
B 27
bettor,
you're playing it on the columns ?
i quickly imported youre numbers i the dozentracker and there you should only start betting from youre last spin, no losses yet.
if played youre way at the columns it was indeed a loss because as far as i see its played correctly.
i dont think john plays it on the columns, he tried it but noticed that it would lose quicker there because the columns have another behavior or something...
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 23, 10:33 PM 2012
Sure wish someone would post some clear, concise, and accurate instructions. Sure would help if the dozens were A, B, and C and something like this was posted:
1.....A
32...C
13...B
14...B
12...A
7.....A
35...C
21...B
36...C
3.....A
Now there we have two four gaps in the first dozen. Some kind soul post what should happen next.
Sam
Im in Sam's camp, I never got it which is a shame as ive always enjoyed JL's Methods
now you track further till you get another 4 gap in another dozen, if you get another 4 gap in the same dozen then there have to be a bigger gap (5 or 5+) between it.
After that 4 gap you track that dozen till it misses 3 spins and then you bet against that doz to form
a 4 gap.
If it becomes a 4 gap you lose and you track further till you get another 4 gap and a betting opportunity.
If it becomes a bigger gap you win ( falls on your dozens that you bet on), end game restart.
Twister and Sam,
I hope this excel explains it a bit better.
Stephan
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 24, 03:03 AM 2012
bettor,
you're playing it on the columns ?
i quickly imported youre numbers i the dozentracker and there you should only start betting from youre last spin, no losses yet.
if played youre way at the columns it was indeed a loss because as far as i see its played correctly.
i don't think john plays it on the columns, he tried it but noticed that it would lose quicker there because the columns have another behavior or something...
Just testing on both Dozens and Columns at this stage - and this loss came from the columns.
No losses yet on the Dozens
JL - can you please confirm if this method is to be played exclusively on the Dozens...
I like it but man does it take some understanding and tracking.
Might have a looksey at 3 gaps to see if quicker for the live wheel as proposed.
BUT i dont mind being patient at the casino so get can my bets and get out again.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 24, 03:57 AM 2012
now you track further till you get another 4 gap in another dozen, if you get another 4 gap in the same dozen then there have to be a bigger gap (5 or 5+) between it.
After that 4 gap you track that dozen till it misses 3 spins and then you bet against that doz to form
a 4 gap.
If it becomes a 4 gap you lose and you track further till you get another 4 gap and a betting opportunity.
If it becomes a bigger gap you win ( falls on your dozens that you bet on), end game restart.
Stephan you have got it, people just need to keep re,reading what you've written here. Eventually it should sink in for most. Its really very simple.
i attached an excel in the reply underneath it to visualize it a bit :)
Quote from: Turner on Sep 23, 03:25 PM 2012
John....
i learned something today then....and I havnt spotted this in any of your work before (or anyones really)
The basic reported E/C's, dozens, streets etc and single number chances show (in the millions of spins we check) that they have a limit...a top end, for instance, red won't show more than 24 straight hits.
Actually, if we were lawyers, we would say "we have never seen Red repeat more than 24 times. We have never seen doz/col repeat more than 15 times"
So you are looking to see if some other undocumented pattern has a limit that we can monopolise on, other then the documented table bets.
its got me thinking....thanks.
Turner
Who has seen more than 24, not I but very close to today.
Pity I did not get just one more, a record then?
Quote from: Bettor 27 on Sep 24, 02:52 AM 2012
Hi John
Came across my first loss in testing.
At least I think its a loss and the data is from Wiesbaden January 2010.
Just wanted you to check over the data (attached) to confirm it would have been an actual loss.
Regards
B 27
Its a loss. But I dont like testing against static results. Eventually you win find a loss. But in real play it never works that way. If anything is going to give you a loss first its always Columns. There is a difference between them and Dozens. It is the same when I play the zone.
What I would like you to do Bettor is see what is the MOST consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen or COLUMN. You can track down. That has me more curious than anything. Because so far I have never even seen a single 7. And I am gearing up to run that as a method of its own. With 8 being what we dont want to see very often thanks.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 23, 10:33 PM 2012
Sure wish someone would post some clear, concise, and accurate instructions. Sure would help if the dozens were A, B, and C and something like this was posted:
1.....A
32...C
13...B
14...B
12...A
7.....A
35...C
21...B
36...C
3.....A
Now there we have two four gaps in the first dozen. Some kind soul post what should happen next.
Sam
1.....A
32...C
13...B
14...B
12...A
7.....A
35...C
21...B
36...C
3.....A => two 4 gaps, pre-trigger.
23...B
11...A
33...C
29...C
13...B => second trigger
24...B
11...A
10...A
36...C
30...C => we bet there 1 and 3 dz, in order to avoid a 4 gaps. spin is 30 so we won 1 unit.
23...B 5 gaps, end.
Examples are VERY important ! ;)
Hope i'm on the right track !
Best regards.
Jordan69
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 24, 11:08 AM 2012
Who has seen more than 24, not I but very close to today.
Pity I did not get just one more, a record then?
Sorry to distract from FIVE JL.
After how many BV spins did you see this event Ralph?
It is 100% guaranteed with a bot test on BV, or live bot play for that matter. How many players have seen 24 reds or blacks :) during LIVE play? If it happens to 50% of all players on this forum then it would be interesting as nobody mentions this. Only LIVE play (and yes you could just look up the Monte Carlo record, that was actually 26 :) )
If this happened after 100,000 spins or less then it is quite a coincidence as we had just been discussing it.
It also looks like you had one of the most unique number arrangements.
34 34
51830 30
30 30
34 34
23 23
23 23
32 32 (after 23 twice?)
7 7
1
19
7 7
277 7
30 30
30 30
30 30
34 34
30 30
7 7
334 34
18Is it always when numbers repeat that long chains of reds or blacks will be seen (series)? If numbers don't repeat as much will there be less?
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 24, 11:08 AM 2012
Who has seen more than 24, not I but very close to today.
Pity I did not get just one more, a record then?
In casino Tropez RNG roulette I've had black hit 28 times as it busted my BR and I continued to, through my rage at losing, track to see how far it got...I busted out on hit 23 but it just kept hitting black for a total of 28 times...
Quote from: jordan69 on Sep 24, 05:55 PM 2012
1.....A
32...C
13...B
14...B
12...A
7.....A
35...C
21...B
36...C
3.....A => two 4 gaps, pre-trigger.
23...B
11...A
33...C
29...C
13...B => second trigger
24...B
11...A
10...A
36...C
30...C => we bet there 1 and 3 dz, in order to avoid a 4 gaps. spin is 30 so we won 1 unit.
23...B 5 gaps, end.
Examples are VERY important ! ;)
Hope i'm on the right track !
Best regards.
Jordan69
You were tracking A at the beginning, why start to track B? I still can't get my head around this system and it's doing my head in :sad2:
Hello Subby,
Thanks for sharing this.
But again, this is RNG BV, after how many spins??
I would like to see LIVE play stories. (RNG results are important to)
Maybe I'll start a +24 EC Club thread :)
Last you'll hear about this JL, just focused on FIVE here now.
24...B
11...A
10...A
36...C
30...C => we bet there 1 and 3 dz, in order to avoid a 4 gaps. spin is 30 so we won 1 unit.
23...B 5 gaps, end.
Jordan
Thank you very much for your example using my post. I'm a little confused on the red, but I drove 500 miles today and am not at my best.
Study it more when I can.
Thanks again!
Sam
Very hard for random make complicated figures consistently many times. There is a treasure.
Jordan
Your example:
30...C => we bet there 1 and 3 dz, in order to avoid a 4 gaps. spin is 30 so we won 1 unit.
23...B 5 gaps, end.
What if the red had been another A or C? Would you bet again or is it a one-time bet only?
Sam
sam, its a one bet only.
if the 30 C had become 25 B he had lost his bet and retrack for another opportunity.
the 23 B doesnt matter because he has won his bet and it can even go further and produce a bigger gap
like 6, 7, 8 or more gaps.
:yawn: not good to answer when you're just awake :smile:
my previous post said 25 B :yawn: come on 25 is C :P
it should be 23 B ;D or some other number in doz 2
First time I saw 24 reds, it will take many years for the casino in Monte Carlo as the speed of spins are slow. I was using autospin, making 10000 of spins that day, and I make during my play far more spins than any table in a land casino. That is why some think RNG is different than live, the difference is speed, you will see more.
At BV you can stake 0.01 Euro and put autospin on, making about 1300 spins/hour.
Its statistics 101. The bigger the sample the more probable is to see a rare event. Just look at the stats of 1M spins. You will see that events that have 1 in 1 Million chance of happening like for example 20 Reds in a row, happened at least once. Unfortunately its the reason that all systems fail the test of 1M spins.
You were tracking A at the beginning, why start to track B? I still can't get my head around this system and it's doing my head in
Subby,
in "explanation" post #146, Stephan told us : "if the third 4 gaps (second trigger) falls in the same dozen, there has to be a bigger gap between it".
For example : 4 gap, 4 gap (1st trigger)
and then, 5 gap, 4 gap, then bet.
Maybe JL can confirm we are fully right ? Thanks !
PS : Many thanks to Stepkevh for his help with explanation.xlsx file :)
JordanThank you very much for your example using my post. I'm a little confused on the red, but I drove 500 miles today and am not at my best.Study it more when I can.Thanks again!Sam
You're welcome Sam ;)
I like when we can give some examples to clear the things.
I guess it helps a lot of guys here.
To be honest, Stephan did a lot for me with his explanation file, post #146
Thanks again.
Regards.
No problem,
Always glad i can help fellow members :)
It appears that i'm almost the only one that fully understands John's "Five" :D
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 25, 07:25 AM 2012
No problem,
Always glad i can help fellow members :)
It appears that i'm almost the only one that fully understands John's "Five" :D
I know I fimd that very strange. Its really a simple method omce you understand the triggers.
it will be easier to understand once they get the tracker.
its as good as finished.
John did you receive my mail with the previous version of the tracker ?
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 25, 08:44 AM 2012
it will be easier to understand once they get the tracker.
its as good as finished.
John did you receive my mail with the previous version of the tracker ?
Yes very colourful.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 25, 08:44 AM 2012
it will be easier to understand once they get the tracker.
its as good as finished.
John did you receive my mail with the previous version of the tracker ?
That will make life easier for the likes of me and Sam lol
Thank you for all ure efforts :thumbsup:
I like the premise of this system. I don't fully grasp it yet either. I am looking to try in a real casino close to home on one of their roulette touch screen machines. (RNG). Their min. bets are USD $1. Will track by betting $1 on red $1 on black until I can get 2 four gaps in the same dozen. It might be time consuming but worth it. Wish you had a youtbe tutorial for dummies. haha
new guy
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 25, 08:44 AM 2012
it will be easier to understand once they get the tracker.
its as good as finished.
John did you receive my mail with the previous version of the tracker ?
If you can show us a tracker for this then you sir deserve high praise indeed :)
If it is easy to work with then I can't see any reason not to use it for the benefit of all on here...I'd even throw you a few units to play with as a token of thanks.
Quote from: Twisteruk on Sep 25, 09:23 AM 2012
That will make life easier for the likes of me and Sam LoL
Thank you for all your efforts :thumbsup:
Okay Twister you and Sam are struggling to get your heads around FIVE. But can you get the idea of betting against 8 consecutive 4 gaps forming on a single DOZEN OR COLUMN? ??? ? Because from the testing I have been doing I seriously believe its the grail. Unbreakable. Random simply doesn't want to know beyond 6.
Someone with the know how needs to number crunch this one. Because I believe its the ONE.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 25, 12:29 PM 2012
Okay Twister you and Sam are struggling to get your heads around FIVE. But can you get the idea of betting against 8 consecutive 4 gaps forming on a single DOZEN OR COLUMN? ??? ? Because from the testing I have been doing I seriously believe its the grail. Unbreakable. Random simply doesn't want to know beyond 6.
Someone with the know how needs to number crunch this one. Because I believe its the ONE.
What progression would you use for that JL ?
Here is the tracker for "five". (also an rng version)
The file works in excel 2007 and above versions because of all the nested formulas.
Going to look if in can convert it for lower versions and for openoffice.
Thx to Nickmsi for the layout and the start of the formulas.
I finished the entire thing with the betselections and so...
Have fun with it and if you should encounter a problem then give me a yell :P
ps: all donations are welcome :xd:
15 downloads already and its superquiet at this thread ;D
all busy testing ;D
You got that right . . . testing is my middle name.
Great job on the tracker . . . Nick
good job !
ready for test tonight :)
thanks jl for the method.
82 spins without bet:)
Biagle,
can you send the numbers in an excel file or txt file.
so that i can check the tracker if it does everything good .
Stephan
Quote from: biagle on Sep 25, 03:36 PM 2012
thanks jl for the method.
82 spins without bet:)
The best way to not lose is not betting. Play another way while tracking!
Brave betting makes the large win!
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 25, 03:45 PM 2012
Biagle,
can you send the numbers in an excel file or txt file.
so that i can check the tracker if it does everything good .
Stephan
sorry can't. turned off excel.
Ralph, i know
Played my first three sessions with FIVE on BV today with the tracker from Stephan. Went good so far.
2x 1st step
1x 2nd step
Quote from: Twisteruk on Sep 25, 12:47 PM 2012
What progression would you use for that JL ?
I want to find out how strong it is first Twister. 1-3-9-27 from a treble trigger might be good enough. From 4 consecutive 4 gaps it certanly will be. 1000/1 should be easily achieved on BV.
Without testing i have to say that this system will fall like a shooting star.
JL why u call this system long run winner without posting graphic on long run ?
Thanks to Jl, Stephan and Nick. Good to see all the mules pulling in one direction.
TCH........From now on, this means "TwoCat Humor" so I won't offend anyone!!!
Thanks for the tracker Stephan!
Let all us be test and will post results.
Like this
1 step
2 step
3 step
4 step.
Bet regards
JL just to clarify you think 8 consecutive 4 gaps. There can be 2 and 3 gaps in between though yes.
If 4 was the base gap your saying that you don't see 8 consecutive base gaps.
I would like to test but don't have excel and formula knowledge to do it.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 22, 05:01 AM 2012
In this example Dozen 1 produced the GAME TRIGGER. Why? Because it was the first dozen to produce TWO 4 GAPS. That is the point you must take onboard first.
Now, once you have identified your GAME TRIGGER. You now continue tracking until you get your PRE BET TRIGGER. This basically will be the first dozen to produce a 4 gap after the GAME TRIGGER. Again this could happen on the SAME DOZEN that gave us our GAME TRIGGER. We then bet against that 4gap producing another 4 GAP consecutively. If it doesn't we have won the game.If it does. We continue tracking until another 4 gap forms on any of the three dozens.
We now bet using step two of the progression that this doesn't produce a consecutive 4 gap. If it doesn't we have won. If it does we now wait for the Next 4 gap on any dozen and go to step three of the progression. So we repeat this process for a maximum of 4 attempts. So far its been successful for 870 games.
DOZEN 3
7
4
6
4----GAME TRIGGER
DOZEN 1
6
4----PRE BET TRIGGER
4----BET ONE LOST as it became a consecutive 4 gap
DOZEN 3
4----PRE BET TRIGGER
6----BET TWO WON as it didn't become another 4 gap, game OVER.
Basically, only 2 steps :
1) Wait for 3 "4 gaps" to happen, and it may not be one after another.
2) Skip 3 spins (ignore "Zeros"), on the 4th spin bet on the last "Dozen group" that it will not occur.
Note : You are betting on 2 group dozens of the opposite of the last dozen group that just produce a gap.
Progression is 1,1..3,3..9,9..27,27.
Please correct me if i am wrong. Thank you.
i've already seen 6 4 gaps in doz 2 in 100 spins with the rng tester of "five" but they are not all consecutive, some were seperated by 1,2 or 3 gaps.
Quote from: MuppetMan on Sep 25, 09:44 PM 2012
JL just to clarify you think 8 consecutive 4 gaps. There can be 2 and 3 gaps in between though yes.
If 4 was the base gap your saying that you don't see 8 consecutive base gaps.
I would like to test but don't have excel and formula knowledge to do it.
This. Correct Muppetman there can be 1,2 amd 3 gaps between the 8 4 gaps but nothing 5 or more.
Quote from: speed on Sep 25, 07:59 PM 2012
Without testing i have to say that this system will fall like a shooting star.
JL why u call this system long run winner without posting graphic on long run ?
I'm not technically minded that's Stills forte. Im saying in all my years playing the ZONE and all my recent play on FIVE. I haven't seen even 7 consecutive 4 GAPS. Its possibly something random can not do, certainly very rarely. Which means a winning method.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 26, 01:03 AM 2012
This. Correct Muppetman there can be 1,2 amd 3 gaps between the 8 4 gaps but nothing 5 or more.
Okay then it have seen 6 already John, i will extend the rng tracker and see ...
I've seen many go to 6 Stephan but never 8 which is my thinking here.
John,
i changed the tracker so that it counts every time when it catches a 4 gap en resets the count to 0 if there comes a 5 or 5+.
you will see to how many gaps it goes in the 3 green cells in line 3.
in around 100 F9 presses i saw 3 times 8 but after the 8 it gives directly a 5 or 5+ gap.
you can check it yourself in the tracker, press f9 till you catch a 8 in the green cells and then scroll down till you found him
Stephan
Thank you for the tracker Stepkevh!
I have a question:
is the tracking in the example on attached picture correct? Marked 4-gaps began to form before first 2 4-gaps (on D2) appeared! Shouldn't we start to count another 4-gaps only after first 2 4-gaps have already appeared?
Marivo,
the trigger is okay.
the main game starts after we found 2 4 gaps in one dozen.
then the betting game starts after another 4 gap has appeared :thumbsup:
so the picture that you show is correct, the tracker found 2 4 gaps in doz2 (cell g14 & g24)
then another single 4 gap triggers betting procedure (cell d26 doz1)
if you think that you encounter another problem, post it with a pic, it says more then words :)
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 26, 02:35 AM 2012
John,
i changed the tracker so that it counts every time when it catches a 4 gap en resets the count to 0 if there comes a 5 or 5+.
you will see to how many gaps it goes in the 3 green cells in line 3.
in around 100 F9 presses i saw 3 times 8 but after the 8 it gives directly a 5 or 5+ gap.
you can check it yourself in the tracker, press f9 till you catch a 8 in the green cells and then scroll down till you found him
Stephan
Unfortunately it went 11 and it would go 12 or 13 as a single dozen repeat stats show. Thanks Stef for the tracker but i guess the reality emerges here. In FIVE bet we bet against 10 formations of 4's for different dozens but 6 bets are virtual.
muppetman and everyone without excel i have a bluechip program of it with no keys registration needed....so you can use excel and everything else that comes with it i,m using windows vista...i,ve tried to upload rar file on here for you but its too big so i,ll see what other way there is ......or any one with suggestions wouls be appreciated
^-^
Just opened the file in openoffice without problems, so it would only be the older excel versions that could give problems (or not) ?
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 26, 04:06 AM 2012
Just opened the file in openoffice without problems, so it would only be the older excel versions that could give problems (or not) ?
Free large file hosting. Send big files the easy way! (link:://:.sendspace.com/)
Thanks Stephan! We can see other gaps and find different variation for play.
F.e. I still didn't find more than 5 consecutive - 2 gaps
and more than 3 consecutive - 3 gaps
and more than 2 consecutive - 4 gaps if following for same dozen.
:thumbsup:
i just made the tracker its up to you guys what you do with it :)
skakus i,ve tried using that site but its only 300 mb it,ll let me upload......i need to upload 540 mb..either the rar files or the iso file.......stephkev your tracker is excellent....as you say use it how you please.....i have to say for a lot of tracking for john legends new system and the progression involved although he has not lost yet lost would be a nightmare to regain back in time wise in a real casino....there is a better flat bet system using your tracker where you will win 70% of the time out of the 104 spin time frame you set it at....even if you only win 1 unit or 5units...the drawdown for the loss on the 30% is minimum offset against the wins...i,ve been using it for hours now on your built in rng going through thousands of spins and it produces the best flat bet if you have the patience i,ve ever seen....so look closer at the results people....
Quote from: 6th-sense on Sep 26, 11:11 AM 2012
skakus I've tried using that site but its only 300 mb it,ll let me upload......i need to upload 540 mb..either the rar files or the iso file.......stephkev your tracker is excellent....as you say use it how you please.....i have to say for a lot of tracking for john legends new system and the progression involved although he has not lost yet lost would be a nightmare to regain back in time wise in a real casino....there is a better flat bet system using your tracker where you will win 70% of the time out of the 104 spin time frame you set it at....even if you only win 1 unit or 5units...the drawdown for the loss on the 30% is minimum offset against the wins...I've been using it for hours now on your built in rng going through thousands of spins and it produces the best flat bet if you have the patience I've ever seen....so look closer at the results people....
Try 'we transfer'.
80 downloads and no mistakes reported...
thats a :thumbsup: for me :D
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 26, 03:35 PM 2012
80 downloads and no mistakes reported...
that's a :thumbsup: for me :D
Like Bill Gates do, let the users do the debugging! ;D
JL I sent you a PM bud :thumbsup:
While playing THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN, I tried out the tracker and FIVE. Won three units. Lost on the first bet once and recovered on the second.
During this time, the SEVEN won 500 units!
Thanks to Jl and Ralph!!
And to Stefan for the tracker. That sucker is perfect. (I think!)
I'm home! Drove 4,875 miles. It was worth it to have a beer with Buffett at Key West!
Samster
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 26, 04:04 PM 2012
Like Bill Gates do, let the users do the debugging! ;D
:D no ralph, normally if i post a tracker ti should be without mistakes...
but you never know that there would be a small mistake.
And Bill Gates became a miljonaire (or biljonaire) and here its for free ;D
Thanks Sam,
btw do you understand now how "five" works ? :)
I tested bit with Stef's tracker. Thanks again for your effort. One problem is that it goes only 100 spins so many times you are left in the middle of progression. At the beginning i counted units won and got 147 games won and 2 lost and after that i just started clicking to see how many sessions of 100 spins it would go without clear loss. In a session max win was 5 units, i would say around 2 represents average win. At one point it went 450 more or less. ;D
You can do it on your own - its very quick...
if somebody wants i respost the trackers with more spins.
in fact its easy to be done by yourself,
just copy the bottom cells and paste them as far as you want :)
I think I got the system down now. Will test soon in a real casino on their Bally's touchbet (RNG) machines. Tracking will have to be down with a pen and paper...haha
how much did you win using this system JL ?
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 27, 04:05 AM 2012
if somebody wants i respost the trackers with more spins.
in fact its easy to be done by yourself,
just copy the bottom cells and paste them as far as you want :)
I have done so many times (1000 spins, 5000 spins, etc) and there are just as many losses as wins during my testing. So if the tracker is working right this system doesn't seem to be as good as hoped.
Quote from: Matush77 on Sep 27, 10:48 AM 2012
how much did you win using this system JL ?
Hello Matush77 I have a winning streak of 910 now with FIVE but not all were played for real money. Its points I am playing for. On BV rng I am playing for pennies at the moment. That will change next year if I meet my goals. I have won about 160 British pounds so far using FIVE on live wheels.
Quote from: mattymattz on Sep 27, 11:51 AM 2012
I have done so many times (1000 spins, 5000 spins, etc) and there are just as many losses as wins during my testing. So if the tracker is working right this system doesn't seem to be as good as hoped.
When you are talking High Tech I am a real dummy. I want to know what does the tracker do? I use old fashion pen and paper. I've never got into any of this high tech business. All I can tell you is playing it Hit and Run I am now 910/0 I've been taken to the 4th step of the progression 68 times. But never lost it yet. Of course I will at some point.
The argument I make for Hit and Run whatever format you are playing Live or RNG. Is your entrance into the flow of random. I have always believed it superior to continuos play simply because you may often land in the middle or at the end of a potential loss. That you would have certainly met had you played for hours and hours.
I only see one method that may be unbreakable played for hours and hours. With a realistic turnover and that is 8 ON 1. My proposed method for betting against 8 consecutive 4 gaps on the same Dozen or Column. We shall see.
John,
originally the tracker goes to 100 spins or something.
offcourse some people will extend the tracker to 1000 or 5000 spins and test it that way.
so not the hit'n'run way but continues way
mattmazz is only stating a fact jl...its not high tech its just a good tracker that shows the reality of the bet selection.....and as you say not even i have seen it go passed 8 gaps so maybe that is where your key lies...don,t dismiss it as a high tech gadget but use it to your advantage after all i think you were all for trackers for some of your other systems.... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 27, 02:25 PM 2012
John,
originally the tracker goes to 100 spins or something.
offcourse some people will extend the tracker to 1000 or 5000 spins and test it that way.
so not the hit'n'run way but continues way
Okay that would explain why some might run into more losses. What about the 8 on 1 idea Stephan any testing yet??
John,
In reply 196 i posted the tracker for that and i saw it go to 8 gaps in 1 doz or col.
Robeenhunt saw it go to 9 he said.
Quote from: 6th-sense on Sep 27, 02:27 PM 2012
mattmazz is only stating a fact jl...its not high tech its just a good tracker that shows the reality of the bet selection.....and as you say not even i have seen it go passed 8 gaps so maybe that is where your key lies...don't dismiss it as a high tech gadget but use it to your advantage after all i think you were all for trackers for some of your other systems.... :thumbsup:
I am not saying I am against it 6th. I just wanted to know how it functions that's all. For me personally at the end of the day the ultimate way to proof a method is in the real field you play it on. Live, Rng. I've done that now with great success so far. 910/0 and counting. I am looking for the first 1000 wins no loss run I have ever had.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 27, 02:31 PM 2012
John,
In reply 196 i posted the tracker for that and i saw it go to 8 gaps in 1 doz or col.
Robeenhunt saw it go to 9 he said.
Stephan how reliable would that be though compared to a live wheel or an established RNG like BV. I ask this because I've been studying the breakdown of dozens and columns for the best part of 20 years and have never seen even a 7? ??? ? And even on Bayes RNG and Ladbrokes and BV FUN OR REAL. Its never shown me more than a 6.
Does it function along the lines of Random.org. Which I don't really have a lot of faith in. Because I believe they just throw up certain runs for the sake of it. But you might go years and never see them in real play. As I have done...
that's something i'm asking myself also because excels random function does not act the same as rng random or something else.
i think its all about the seed value to get a new number.
On the other hand, random is random.
Quick tested it again and max is 9 4 gaps in a row
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 27, 02:41 PM 2012
that's something i'm asking myself also because excels random function does not act the same as rng random or something else.
i think its all about the seed value to get a new number.
So it can't really mimick what would happen on a live wheel or quality RNG. I had to ask that because most of the time I am not even getting 5 consecutive 4 gaps. You get 3 or 4 and that's it. I want to gauge this because for me personally I would be willing to risk 242 points on a 5 step progression starting after 2, 4 GAP triggers. If that's not it we go from 3, 4 GAP triggers. But I really believe 8 is darn rare in real random I really do.
Maybe this is a question that Bayes can answer.
Is excels random as random as an rng ?
It is random, the best definition is it can not be predictable. It is possible to make it predictable, if the start value (seed) is known. Normally it takes the milliseconds since a special date, which can be years ago as start for the seed, put in a like random modulus, one or more times, each seed is then
used in a time of a 1000 part of a second.
Sometimes it takes your movement at the keyboard as a part of the calculation.
There are other ways, but all are impossible to know, if you not know all behind and even then not easy.
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 27, 04:00 PM 2012
It is random, the best definition is it can not be predictable. It is possible to make it predictable, if the start value (seed) is known. Normally it takes the milliseconds since a special date, which can be years ago as start for the seed, put in a like random modulus, one or more times, each seed is then
used in a time of a 1000 part of a second.
Sometimes it takes your movement at the keyboard as a part of the calculation.
There are other ways, but all are impossible to know, if you not know all behind and even then not easy.
Random but not as we know it. I will go with what I am seeing on the formats I see. And it hard enough to even see a five or six. In between there are hundreds that don't go to six.
See my screen shot..........
Why does the tracker stop? What do you do if your bet lost and you need to go further, as in this case?
Sam
Ive never trusted XL RAND. If I ever wanted to run random numbers by something I had in XL I did this.
have my tracker in sheet 1 and 10,000 rand.org or real spins in sheet 2 vertically.
Record macro. go to sheet 2. Copy required random numbers from top down. Go to sheet 1. Paste random numbers into tracker. Go back to sheet 2. Delete the top line with the top random number in it.. go back to sheet 1 and stop recording. save as a letter...cntrl A or something.
Now when you press the macro (cntrl a or something) it shunts random numbers up 1 at a time.
Simple but it works.
Theres probably VB lookup or something but I dont know that stuff.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 27, 02:50 PM 2012
So it can't really mimick what would happen on a live wheel or quality RNG. I had to ask that because most of the time I am not even getting 5 consecutive 4 gaps. You get 3 or 4 and that's it. I want to gauge this because for me personally I would be willing to risk 242 points on a 5 step progression starting after 2, 4 GAP triggers. If that's not it we go from 3, 4 GAP triggers. But I really believe 8 is darn rare in real random I really do.
You rre on BV they use true randon, from similar sorces as random.org, it is not any computer psedu random.
Quote from: Ralph on Sep 28, 01:13 PM 2012
You rre on BV they use true random, from similar sorces as random.org, it is not any computer psedu random.
That's good to know Ralph
Sam,
use this one i post now, it has 500 cells that can be use instead of 100
Stephan
Kevh
Thanks a ton!
COMMENT..................
This has got to be the slowest method I've ever seen for the payback. Why no robot? It would seem that would be the way to go. I will certainly contribute.
I will say this for John: He must be the most patient, tenacious human on the planet. If anyone has earned the right to win, it's him.
Still a bit of a bloviator, but hey! Who's perfect??
TCH
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 28, 02:37 PM 2012
Kevh
Thanks a ton!
COMMENT..................
This has got to be the slowest method I've ever seen for the payback. Why no robot? It would seem that would be the way to go. I will certainly contribute.
I will say this for John: He must be the most patient, tenacious human on the planet. If anyone has earned the right to win, it's him.
Still a bit of a bloviator, but hey! Who's perfect??
TCH
Thanks Sam. I think theres a complement in there somewhere LoL! The thing is Sam on BV I am not waiting long at all This is what's bugging me. Why is this tracker taking so long to produce triggers? ??? And then at the other extreme its already shown you guys 8 or 9 consecutive 4 gaps on a single dozen. YET! BV or live wheels are hard pressed to even go 6.
I find these two extremes very odd. Any ideas people???
i'm sure the triggers are right in the tracker.
the only thing that sometimes takes long is to get the first trigger.
one time it will be at 20 spins or 30 spins and other times it takes 50 spins.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 28, 03:05 PM 2012
i'm sure the triggers are right in the tracker.
the only thing that sometimes takes long is to get the first trigger.
one time it will be at 20 spins or 30 spins and other times it takes 50 spins.
Well thats about right for time then Stephan. Im wondering why Sam considers that to require the patience of a saint. Remember you can be playing other methods too. Which is what I do. So you arent just sitting around waiting for FIVE to qualify. You can have methods like the ZONE and DIVIDE AND CONQUER. To fill the gaps.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Sep 27, 03:22 PM 2012
Maybe this is a question that Bayes can answer.
Is excels random as random as an rng ?
Check out this thread:
Don't make this mistake with Random() (link:://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=9602.0)
Must figure a way to make the seed value significantly different each call. If you call too fast it may be same, or perhaps not different enough. My solution was to add a delay in between calls to the RNG. This gives the clock enough time to change significantly the seed value. Doesn't need to be much. Just slow down the calls and it should be fine. Maybe there is another trick that could be found by googling. I'm not convinced that Visual Basic's random number generator is less worthy than any other, if handled carefully.
i googled a bit and found that the random function in excel gets a seed from the sum of 3 numbers between 1 and +30000.
so i think excel is pretty random :D
Microsoft may have developed it a bit since 2002 when i had that issue. I just can't believe that they would allow their Visual Basic product to have a less worthy RNG than any of their other language products, or to let those be less worthy than any other language.
Sounds like they are doing something that Superman proposed in the thread mentioned. I'm sure there are additional methods to insure a significantly different seed value per call...if one is willing to slow down the speed at which random numbers are grabbed in exchange for true(er) random. I slowed it down by adding a loop that spun around x (1000?) times doing nothing. But those loops could be used to do useful calculations insuring that each number is actually different and even more randomized on top of the other random.
Otherwise, there is certainly a way to set up VBA to scrape Random.org and put the numbers into Excel. I'm sure it could be reduced to two clicks, if not one, and a split second of waiting.
I am going to start giving real play game examples of what I experience with FIVE. My current strikerate is 922/0. Here is a game I played today on BV. In this game the eventual Pre--bet trigger formed at the same time as the first 4 GAP in the eventual GAME TRIGGER. This happens quite often.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----4-------5-------9
-----11------8------11
-----4-------4-------4--------------PRE BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----4-------4-------9--------------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 1--BET 1 DOZ 2 LOST---BET 2 DOZEN 3 WON.
John
Are you saying you bet on a single dozen? The tracker calls for bets on two dozens. Is it wrong?
Sam
I tested 1000 spins and got that results
if we bet after 2 gaps.
1 step-87
2 step-18
3 step-7
4 step-3
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 28, 04:36 PM 2012
John
Are you saying you bet on a single dozen? The tracker calls for bets on two dozens. Is it wrong?
Sam
Explain what you mean Sam. The game trigger is 2 four gaps. The bet trigger is 1 four gap. And in that example Dozen 1 is the game trigger. Dozen 2 is the first bet and loses because it becomes a double 4 gap. Dozen 3 is the second bet and winner as it doesn't become a double 4 gap. Are you clear on that Sam?
Quote from: donik7777 on Sep 28, 05:40 PM 2012
I tested 1000 spins and got that results
if we bet after 2 gaps.
1 step-87
2 step-18
3 step-7
4 step-3
Is that for breakdowns on a single dozen Donik777??
Need more test for 2 gaps single dozen.
f.e.
1
2
1
3
-- we bet against 1 dozen
OTHER EXAMPLE
1
2
1
1
1
2
-- we bet against 1 dozen
so i got my results WE CAN FLAT BET ONLY FOR 1 STEP AND 2 STEP
Here is a result from a "live" casino using their Bally's touchbet RNG roulette machines. I hope I am doing it right. My question is how are you tracking zeros? Do you ignore them and continue tracking dozens or are they tracked? For example..is this a four gap A-B-C-C-ZERO-A? Do I ignore the zero and count that as a four gap or continue on tracking as no 4 gap. HELP
Quote from: donik7777 on Sep 28, 09:14 PM 2012
Need more test for 2 gaps single dozen.
f.e.
1
2
1
3
-- we bet against 1 dozen
OTHER EXAMPLE
1
2
1
1
1
2
-- we bet against 1 dozen
so i got my results WE CAN FLAT BET ONLY FOR 1 STEP AND 2 STEP
Still not sure what you have here Donik7777. Are we betting against 4 gaps or what?
I guess that discussion about a randomness of a RNG in Stef's tracker wont lead nowhere. The point is that when you look at results you will see that you can have long winning streaks like i reported and John is experiencing now. We differ with John on a basic premise of his approach that random has a limit and there are some patterns that it can hardly produce. For me FIVE bet is just sequence of 4 Double Dozen bets with 1/80 odds. If you look at other similar concepts like Code4, Matrix5, Pattern breaker, D&C in this forum there were mixed results. As John himself stated his strike rate playing Code4 now stands at 120/1 and at the beginning it was 600+/1. I can not help being skeptical here.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 28, 04:14 PM 2012
I am going to start giving real play game examples of what I experience with FIVE. My current strikerate is 922/0. Here is a game I played today on BV. In this game the eventual Pre--bet trigger formed at the same time as the first 4 GAP in the eventual GAME TRIGGER. This happens quite often.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----4-------5-------9
-----11------8------11
-----4-------4-------4--------------PRE BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----4-------4-------9--------------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 1--BET 1 DOZ 2 LOST---BET 2 DOZEN 3 WON.
john i,m completley thrown here i thought the gaps were for each dozen seperatley? i thought from your explanation it was as in doz 1 ..and doz 2...we the results at 4 gaps each so we bet against it on the next spin....doz 3 only has 1 at a 4 gap so was we not to wait for another 4 gap before we bet against?....have i missed something?...or it might just be the way you just explained this example.... :question:
Quote from: 6th-sense on Sep 29, 03:28 AM 2012
john I'm completley thrown here i thought the gaps were for each dozen seperatley? i thought from your explanation it was as in doz 1 ..and doz 2...we the results at 4 gaps each so we bet against it on the next spin....doz 3 only has 1 at a 4 gap so was we not to wait for another 4 gap before we bet against?....have i missed something?...or it might just be the way you just explained this example.... :question:
No 6th we only wait for one double 4 gap. Which in that example was DOZEN 1. From there on we are betting agaimst that happening again. So DOZEN 2 was the first bet and lost as it formed another double 4 Gap. DOZEN 3 was the second bet and won as it remained a single 4 gap.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Sep 29, 02:53 AM 2012
I guess that discussion about a randomness of a RNG in Stef's tracker won't lead nowhere. The point is that when you look at results you will see that you can have long winning streaks like i reported and John is experiencing now. We differ with John on a basic premise of his approach that random has a limit and there are some patterns that it can hardly produce. For me FIVE bet is just sequence of 4 Double Dozen bets with 1/80 odds. If you look at other similar concepts like Code4, Matrix5, Pattern breaker, D&C in this forum there were mixed results. As John himself stated his strike rate playing Code4 now stands at 120/1 and at the beginning it was 600+/1. I can not help being skeptical here.
Matt I think there's a distinct difference between CODE 4 and FIVE. CODE 4 is like a puzzle for random to figure out. FIVE is a mountain that random has to climb. Its npt likely to reach the top very often. I think 8 on 1 will ultimately prove even stronger.
thankyou jl for the reply its now pretty clear....
Quote
I am going to start giving real play game examples of what I experience with FIVE. My current strikerate is 922/0. Here is a game I played today on BV. In this game the eventual Pre--bet trigger formed at the same time as the first 4 GAP in the eventual GAME TRIGGER. This happens quite often.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----4-------5-------9
-----11------8------11
-----4-------4-------4--------------PRE BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----4-------4-------9--------------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 1--BET 1 DOZ 2 LOST---BET 2 DOZEN 3 WON.
Hi JL,
Good work so far and it's good you're now showing some more examples.
Having secured the win on the 2nd step with dozen 3 failing to complete a 4-GAP do you then count the back to back 4's in dozen 2 as your pre-game trigger for the next coup - or is it safe to say that you discard the above results and completely re-track from scratch??
Thanks,
Atlantis.
Quote from: atlantis on Sep 29, 05:49 AM 2012
Hi JL,
Good work so far and it's good you're now showing some more examples.
Having secured the win on the 2nd step with dozen 3 failing to complete a 4-GAP do you then count the back to back 4's in dozen 2 as your pre-game trigger for the next coup - or is it safe to say that you discard the above results and completely re-track from scratch??
Thanks,
Atlantis.
Hello Atlantis good to hear from you. Its been a while. Very valid question. I start afresh as I play Hit and Run. I dont play more than 4 games in any session anyway. But as this method is based upon betting against the appearance of five consecutive double 4 gaps. Dozen 3 was the last bet and it failed to form a double 4 gap.
So we now have to wait for a new double.
Just finished todays session at BV. Here is another game example that I experienced for FIVE.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----11------04-----05
-----10------04-----06------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----07------04-----15
-----09------06-----12
-----05------04-----05-----BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----04------08-----05-----WIN BET 1 D2, AS IT DID NOT BECOME A DOUBLE 4 GAP.
As you can see in this particular game. Both the GAME TRIGGER and the BET TRIGGER formed in DOZEN 2. I hope these game examples will lead to a greater understanding for FIVE.
Many people understand this method and the all "seem" to be doing it differently.
Someone answer one simple question: Does this method call for a bet on a single dozen or two dozens simultaneously?
Or
Do you sometimes bet one dozen and sometimes bet two?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 29, 02:32 PM 2012
Many people understand this method and the all "seem" to be doing it differently.
Someone answer one simple question: Does this method call for a bet on a single dozen or two dozens simultaneously?
Or
Do you sometimes bet one dozen and sometimes bet two?
Sam
Sam once you have your Bet trigger. As soon as the Dozen with the bet trigger produces a 3 GAP. You oppose it on the next spin by covering the other two dozens. So YES, You are always betting on two dozens against the dozen that's giving you your bet.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 28, 10:01 PM 2012
Still not sure what you have here Donik7777. Are we betting against 4 gaps or what?
We betting against 2 gaps. I gave example.
Helo John!
Are using your new ZONE in BV challenge and what results? Maybe you explain rules of ZONE?
Greetings.
Why the tracker doesn't suggest bet on 1. and 3. dozs here?
Quote from: donik7777 on Sep 29, 07:42 PM 2012
Helo John!
Are using your new ZONE in BV challenge and what results? Maybe you explain rules of ZONE?
Greetings.
Donik7777 I like you. You are always pressing me for the latest. I am playing the Zone but I am not 100% ready to show it. I will wait until I have won the first stage of the challenge and made 50 EURO. At that point I will open the flood gates. I really like the look of Sams Magnificent 7. It looks like the best inside method period. And I am not a fan of the inside apart from lines. But I would be willing to give that one a go.
I am on target with my play. I aim for 5---10% increase on total BR a week. And I am getting it at present. I will let Superman and Still anounce the latest figures when theyre ready.
Another GAME EXAMPLE from todays sessions.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----07------06-----07
-----04------06-----04
-----07------06-----04-----GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 3
-----04------05-----05-----BET TRIGGER DOZEN 1
-----12------06-----05-----WIN BET 1 DOZEN 1 AS IT DID NOT DOUBLE UP.
Quote from: marivo on Sep 30, 06:06 AM 2012
Why the tracker doesn't suggest bet on 1. and 3. dozs here?
aah a very little mistake...
will solve it and repost tracker.
it doesnt happen much that there is a bet on the same column as the trigger dozens.
i'm sure it gives a trigger if that 3 gap before your 4gap trigger was a 5 or 5+.
But i missed something in the formula if there comes another gap between the 5 and 4 :)
Stephan
Thank you!
JL are these examples correct?
This died down. I am interested in doing more trials at a live casino with this. I am also wondering how good one could do by blindly playing 2 dozens at a time through 4 progressions to get 1 winner. Would it be as close as following the 4 gap method???
JL are these examples correct?
link:://:.images.net.pl/?di=Q9F9 (link:://:.images.net.pl/?di=Q9F9)
I have not joined in so far in the discussion of FIVE because I am still grappling to understand the full and correct rules of play regarding the triggers. JL's results for this method are very impressive. I would like to begin playing for real and try and get similar results but as yet I am still a little confused about the different rules for the bet trigger.
I hope the tracker can be made to work perfectly and will be in line with the full and latest rules that John has given. I also hope that some further examples can be shown.
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Oct 03, 06:49 AM 2012
I have not joined in so far in the discussion of FIVE because I am still grappling to understand the full and correct rules of play regarding the triggers. JL's results for this method are very impressive. I would like to begin playing for real and try and get similar results but as yet I am still a little confused about the different rules for the bet trigger.
I hope the tracker can be made to work perfectly and will be in line with the full and latest rules that John has given. I also hope that some further examples can be shown.
A.
Atlantis I will give you examples for every possible game and bet trigger later today to clear up this confusion over what constitutes a qualified game. I should have taken this into account when drafting the rules. Unlike matrix methods where you have preset parameters of play. FIVE relies on random totally for its games.
Okay I am going to give several real played game examples of what qualifies a game of FIVE. Since my poor explanation of tracking triggers has left more than a few members dazed and confused. I will do my best to finaly nail this important aspect of the method.Using the numbers recorded then a diagram of how they look.
EXAMPLE 1---And the most misunderstood possibility.
12/34/35/16/07/30/01/21/27/03/17/30/04/20/34/17/08/07/12/09---GAME OVER.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------04-----03----------BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----02------03-----03
-----03------03-----03
-----03------02-----03----------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 1
-----04------05-----05----------WIN BET 1 DOZEN 2 AS IT DID NOT BECOME A 4 GAP.
As you can see The BET TRIGGER was formed before the second part of the GAME TRIGGER. This often happens. But because we require a DOUBLE 4 GAP. To trigger a game. Both Dozen 1 and Dozen 2 remain contenders for the game trigger until one of them produces the second consecutive 4 GAP. There can be times when neither will become a GAME TRIGGER.
I have had incidences where all three dozens have formed a single 4 GAP. And NONE of them have gone on to form a second to make the game trigger. It happens. Because we have to wait on random with FIVE. It can't be rushed.
John
I'm really trying to see the light, but two things confuse me. I am putting this thing into a format I can understand.
Question one: Was the 9, the last number in your trot, the winning number/dozen?
Question two: Your bet description baffles me. I will write it out: +WIN BET 1 DOZEN 2........." Does this mean you bet dozen 1 and 2?
Sam
Anyone understand this? Anyone at all??
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 03, 05:05 PM 2012
John
I'm really trying to see the light, but two things confuse me. I am putting this thing into a format I can understand.
Question one: Was the 9, the last number in your trot, the winning number/dozen?
Question two: Your bet description baffles me. I will write it out: +WIN BET 1 DOZEN 2........." Does this mean you bet dozen 1 and 2?
Sam
Anyone understand this? Anyone at all??
Yes Sam number 9 was. Question 2. No it means the first bet won because Dozen 2 didnt produce another 4 GAP. Maybe I should say step 1 dozen 2. As its the first step of a possible 4 step progression.
I'm up +9 playing with dimes (+90 if I was playing with euro's) Never got to the 4th step yet. Highest was 3rd. I'm playing at BV NZ
*****Dozen 2 didn't produce another 4 GAP.*********
OK, let me work on that.
Thanks
Samster
QuoteAs you can see The BET TRIGGER was formed before the second part of the GAME TRIGGER. This often happens. But because we require a DOUBLE 4 GAP. To trigger a game. Both Dozen 1 and Dozen 2 remain contenders for the game trigger until one of them produces the second consecutive 4 GAP. There can be times when neither will become a GAME TRIGGER.
Ahhhh now i see...this throws a bit of a monkey wrench in. I thought we look for the BET TRIGGER AFTER the first double 4 gap is formed....but you are saying after the first double 4 has formed to look back and we may find the bet trigger already had formed a single 4 GAP if not ..then continue spinning until you do find one...as always the more I read this system the more it changes or I realize the less i understand it.
Also can the BET TRIGGER form before even the first 4 gap of the GAME TRIGGER or no?
Yes the bet trigger could form before the GAME TRIGGER. Doesn't happen often, ill give a game example of this later. The most crucial rule. Is there's no bet until one dozen shows you your GAME TRIGGER. As soon as you have it you look to see another 4 gap. And at the first oppurtunity you bet against it becoming a double. Random can delay your bet by forming several short gaps between BET TRIGGER and first bet.
JL--
As always very interesting....now...have you ever seen this? say...single 4 gap forms in dozen one...then few spins later single 4 gap forms in dozen 2...now...continue playing and the double 4 gap game trigger forms in dozen 3. At this point what would be your first bet? I guess to answer my own question it would be the next dozen to form a potential 4 gap to trigger the bet.....is this correct?
Our casino has the Bally's touch screen RNG machines. Min bet is USA $1. I am going to track 20 or so games before I do any kind of serious betting. I will post pics and results here.. that 1-1 3-3 9-9 27-27 progression is a killer though...may have to tweak that.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 04, 05:36 AM 2012
JL--
As always very interesting....now...have you ever seen this? say...single 4 gap forms in dozen one...then few spins later single 4 gap forms in dozen 2...now...continue playing and the double 4 gap game trigger forms in dozen 3. At this point what would be your first bet? I guess to answer my own question it would be the next dozen to form a potential 4 gap to trigger the bet.....is this correct?
Our casino has the Bally's touch screen RNG machines. Min bet is USA $1. I am going to track 20 or so games before I do any kind of serious betting. I will post pics and results here.. that 1-1 3-3 9-9 27-27 progression is a killer though...may have to tweak that.
Yes thats right The. Double 4 GAP is a go. I now understand why these triiggers are confusing people. There are several ways you can get a game.
in fact its as easy as saying.
when you see a third 4 gap then you have the bet trigger at the following 3 gap
Quote from: Stepkevh on Oct 04, 12:55 PM 2012
in fact its as easy as saying.
when you see a third 4 gap then you have the bet trigger at the following 3 gap
May I add something? OK!
When you see a third 4 gap and it is a different dozen that the other two 4 gaps OR it is in the same dozen with a five gap between the first and second 4 gaps, then you have the bet trigger at the following 3 gap. However the third 4 gap you see may not be in the dozen you eventually bet against. It may be after the "Bet Trigger".
Who can make it more confusing? ???
Sam
i already had a lot of work on the triggers in the tracker.
these last changings change it completely
Yes, you have. And it should have been made clear on day one. Wouldn't blame you if you shucked the whole thing.
Sam
Johnlegend can you please answer on my reply #270
Quote from: Stepkevh on Oct 04, 01:57 PM 2012
i already had a lot of work on the triggers in the tracker.
these last changings change it completely
The golden rule is simple. I may have made a hash of explaining the various times a BET TRIGGER can form. But one thing that is rock solid and the most crucial factor for success. You do not bet until a dozen gives you your GAME TRIGGER. This method is harder to explain than anyother I have posted. Because of the various times a BET TRIGGER can come into play.
But that may be the very thing that makes it virtually impregnable against random. Random simply doesn't have a lot of interest in forming many of these DOUBLE 4 GAPS. It can't the vast majority of the time. Sam says why is one dozen more likely not to come than one of the other two. You have to stop thinking in the old sense.. It doesn't relate to FIVE. If you were betting straight off the layout. And you saw 6 reds. You might start betting for a black. Thinking a change is due.
The old thinking is but hang on a minute the wheel has no memory. It doesn't know it just hit red 6 times. It may hit red another 20 times. Yes it might. But how likely is it to do this? Not very likely at all. Now you know why FIVE WORKS. Its almost as hard for random to show you five consecutive double fours as it is to show you more than 25 reds.
The difference is, you will get a lot more play with FIVE. that's all I ever do. Find things that random struggles to do and exploit them. That's all a good method does.
But random doesn't do things exactly when we want it to. That is the problem for people trying to grasp FIVE. All I can say is you must see this example
DOZEN 1
2
4
3
4----GAME TRIGGER
Before you can have a game. Once you have your double. You simply look for the first single 4 gap WHEREVER and WHENEVER it was formed and bet it STAYS SINGLE.
EXAMPLE 1
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------03-----07-------BET TRIGGER DOZEN 1
-----02------04-----08
-----03------04-----04-------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----02------16-----03
-----07------05-----02-------WIN STEP 1 DOZEN 1 AS IT didn't DOUBLE UP
Now in this example the eventual BET TRIGGER formed before the GAME TRIGGER. So to get this straight the BET TRIGGER. can form before, in the middle and after the GAME TRIGGER has formed. You must understand this first to grasp the method.
RESULTS UPDATE FOR FIVE 04/10/2012
TOTAL GAMES PLAYED 1005
TOTAL GAMES WON 1005
TOTAL GAMES LOST ZERO
STRIKERATE 100%
BALANCE 1005 POINTS PLUS.
This is a first for me. The first time I have ever won over a 1000 games in a row. Over the last 20 days FIVE hasn't even tested me. BV is not even challenging the method at the moment. Neither are live wheels. Only Bayes RNG really tested it on several occasions. So I can see this method never going worse than 400/1 And that's more than good enough for me.
QuoteRESULTS UPDATE FOR FIVE 04/10/2012
TOTAL GAMES PLAYED 1005
TOTAL GAMES WON 1005
TOTAL GAMES LOST ZERO
STRIKERATE 100%
BALANCE 1005 POINTS PLUS.
This is a first for me. The first time I have ever won over a 1000 games in a row. Over the last 20 days FIVE hasn't even tested me. BV is not even challenging the method at the moment. Neither are live wheels. Only Bayes RNG really tested it on several occasions. So I can see this method never going worse than 400/1 And that's more than good enough for me.
All I can say is "WOW"
John.
Have you kept a record of how many spins it took to reach 1005 games ?
And how many times you reach 3 and 4 step progression?
Hi JL,
Congratulations on breaking the 1000+ barrier without A SINGLE LOSS!!
I have being following your attempts to explain FIVE and also your examples and I like to think I got it now - at last! However, there's still a nagging doubt and I'm not altogether 100% positive or confident just yet to begin real play - so please do continue to post more of your examples so that we can follow and scrutinize them. I'm hoping that after viewing some more of your recorded actuals that the penny will drop and any remaining doubts or confusion as to the tracking/bet triggers etc. will all be eventually covered so that we are left with a crystal clear understanding of the full, correct and proper way to play your creation.
Good luck on the next thousand :)
A.
WOW! Congratulations John!
At the moment I'm at +100 at BV NZ and never gone to the 4th step. Highest is 3rd
Ok..but to play Devils Advocate....
I am fairly new to the game so forgive me if this is a dumb question/statement.
But......
Just blindly (no "system involved") betting on 2 different dozens at the same time through a 4 step progression....now wouldn't that alone give you a high strike rate?
QuoteJust blindly (no "system involved") betting on 2 different dozens at the same time through a 4 step progression....now wouldn't that alone give you a high strike rate?
How blindly? would you first decide on a set of bets before you started a session, example
bet 1,3 then 2,1 then 2,3 then etc etc
or do it on the fly, thing is, human nature would not work properly on the fly as we would already have a result thus making it more of a "if that just happened, I'll bet the other 2" type decision.
You would probably get a high strike rate but you would eventually get a bad run, even drawing numbers out of a bag, 1 2 3 the number out will be the one you bet against, try it and report back.
I'm still wondering about 1 thing.
John, what would be the minimum bankroll you recommend if we would play with 1 euro/dollar/pound?
Quote from: SamNL on Oct 05, 09:59 AM 2012
WOW! Congratulations John!
At the moment I'm at +100 at BV NZ and never gone to the 4th step. Highest is 3rd
Yes Sam I had a good run not going beyond the third step. Today in the 10 games I've played. I was taken to the 4th step once at BV. But for the 70th time in 1015 games. Random has refused to show me 5 consecutive doubles.
Quote from: SamNL on Oct 05, 12:59 PM 2012
I'm still wondering about 1 thing.
John, what would be the minimum bankroll you recommend if we would play with 1 euro/dollar/pound?
That's a good question Sam. At the moment 80 for me LoL. Would appear to be enough. I would say 240 should do it. And if you get on a good roll even 400 wins to every loss. You have the dream. I've had an amazing run. Of course it has to lose at some point. In the longterm I am hoping for about 400/1. But something tells me that playing as I do Hit and Run. There will be times when you get these mega runs. I can't see this being the only time I will rack up a four figured run. I may have two close losses after this one. But its already turned over more than 11 progressions.
Its a winner no question about it.
Quote from: donik7777 on Oct 04, 09:36 PM 2012
And how many times you reach 3 and 4 step progression?
Have to wade through results to get that data. I can tell you I have been taken to the 4th step 70 times out of 1015.
Quote from: atlantis on Oct 05, 07:02 AM 2012
Hi JL,
Congratulations on breaking the 1000+ barrier without A SINGLE LOSS!!
I have being following your attempts to explain FIVE and also your examples and I like to think I got it now - at last! However, there's still a nagging doubt and I'm not altogether 100% positive or confident just yet to begin real play - so please do continue to post more of your examples so that we can follow and scrutinize them. I'm hoping that after viewing some more of your recorded actuals that the penny will drop and any remaining doubts or confusion as to the tracking/bet triggers etc. will all be eventually covered so that we are left with a crystal clear understanding of the full, correct and proper way to play your creation.
Good luck on the next thousand :)
A.
I cant believe I will win another thousand Atlantis. That would be unreal. I am looking for 400/1 long,long term.. I will be delighted with that. I hope you will eventually grasp it. Atlantis. Because MATRIX VERTICAL 5 had something to do with this method. And you and Twister were a part of that.
I know the BET TRIGGER is the main culprit of confusion here. All I can say to those who have yet to get this is. The BET TRIGGER can come BEFORE, IN THE MIDDLE OR AFTER THE GAME TRIGGER. If you keep thinking that over it might click eventually. I will also try to illustrate this with all the possible bet scenarios.
Quote from: dino246 on Oct 04, 09:24 PM 2012
John.
Have you kept a record of how many spins it took to reach 1005 games ?
No Dino games can be over in 20 spins or go to 70 to 80. As I have said venturing into the world of virtual roulette. I needed a method that could take an RNG. I think I have it with FIVE.
JL-
Do you ever cover the zero in any of these bets "just in case"?
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 05, 03:27 PM 2012
JL-
Do you ever cover the zero in any of these bets "just in case"?
No not for five. Many of my lost steps were as a result of zero. I have total faith in randoms inability to show that formation, Even with the help of ZERO. It hasn't taken my progression in 1015 games. That is saying something. Robeenhutt doesn't want to hear this, But its the truth RANDOM HAS VIRTUAL LIMITS. It really does. And its the way you beat this game longterm without having to risk a fortune and keep everything crossed.
I still have 1 question John, after you have lost a step in the progression, do you retrack or use the previous numbers?
Quote from: SamNL on Oct 05, 03:41 PM 2012
I still have 1 question John, after you have lost a step in the progression, do you retrack or use the previous numbers?
Not sure by what you mean by retrack Sam. I simply continue recording spins until I am presented with the next 4 GAP. That automatically becomes the next bet.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------03-----02
-----04------02-----09-----GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 1
-----06------09-----05
-----05------04-----06-----BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----03------04-----05-----STEP 1 DOZEN 2 LOST
-----04------05-----04-----BET TRIGGERS DOZEN 1 AND 3
-----06------07-----03-----STEP 2 DOZEN 1 WON
As you can see in this example after the GAME TRIGGER we get three BET TRIGGERS. The first one is dozen 2 and we lose as it doubles up. The second one is dozen 1 and it wins as it doesn't double up. The third trigger dozen three is null and void as our game is over.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 05, 02:39 PM 2012
Random has refused to show me 5 consecutive doubles.
Again, obfuscation!! What is 5 consecutive doubles? The winning "four gap" came after three other "four gaps" had formed.
Why do you not stick with the same language? Why constantly change?
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 05, 04:03 PM 2012
Again, obfuscation!! What is 5 consecutive doubles? The winning "four gap" came after three other "four gaps" had formed.
Why do you not stick with the same language? Why constantly change?
Sam
I THOUGHT THIS TOO I just didnt have it in me to pursue this anymore.......Night !
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 05, 03:54 PM 2012
Not sure by what you mean by retrack Sam. I simply continue recording spins until I am presented with the next 4 GAP. That automatically becomes the next bet.
Thanks John, that's all I needed to know
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 05, 04:03 PM 2012
Again, obfuscation!! What is 5 consecutive doubles? The winning "four gap" came after three other "four gaps" had formed.
Why do you not stick with the same language? Why constantly change?
Sam
Sam I don't think you will ever get this method. If I'm talking about a double 4 gap. And I say 5 consecutive doubles. It should be obvious what I am saying.
------D1-----D2-----D3
------04------05-----04
------04------06-----04
------05------04-----03
------04------03-----05
------04------04-----04
------06------03-----02
------03------07-----04---------THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLES
I haven't run into this for 1015 games. FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS. Study it and study it again. No rocket science or obfuscation Sam. Some understand it some don't. But its not that complicated.
Five consecutive doubles is what we are betting against...you are "letting" random produce the first double 4 gap which is the game trigger. When you have that you always, in each progression, "let" random produce a single 4 gap and just when it produces a 3gap with a potential for a four gap you bet that it won't.
So 5 double 4gaps in my view is (1) the double 4 gap that starts the game
and (2) to (5) is the progression. John has never seen 5. Thus the name.
Thats my take.
GAPS is 66,6% and like winkel explain about sixline in dozens same gaps but amount next hits more than before in 2 times.
F.e. in 1000 spins I take these NUMBERS FOR EASIER EXPLAIN
3 gaps hits 150 times amount 4 gaps and more be aproximatelly 300
4 gaps hits f.e. 100 times amount 5 gaps and more be aproximatelly 200
5 gaps -70 times amount 6 gaps and more be 140.
Thats why random cannot make same gaps long time which ones less in 2 times than longer gaps. Because JL didnt see still lost, but lost have to be, anyway that method very strong.
And we can use any gaps 5, 6 or 7 there be same results but more trigger. 66,6% can reach 15-20 gaps sometimes . I thinking better use gaps from 4 untill 9 this come more offen.
John
You finally did it! I wondered when you would.
You have obfuscated and changed terminologies, names and distances and when challenged--well, the challenger is just not smart enough to figure it out
You are the Emperor with no clothes.
Donik
If you have five reds in a row, the sixth spin is a whole new world. Could be in a casino half way round the world. Random starts anew with each new spin. I fought this idea for a long time until I met Kon-Fu-Sed. He is a mathematician.
No matter how many "four gaps" the wheel has produced, the next "four gap" has exactly the same chance of winning/losing.
Before long, John will totally obfuscate away from the FIVE and the next great thing will come along.
If Superman says he has a winning method, he does. But he will never reveal it. That is the sadness of the whole thing.
Sam
QuoteIf Superman says he has a winning method, he does. But he will never reveal it. That is the sadness of the whole thing
LOL Samster, whats that about? I have a method of play yes, very similar to Bayes, it can't be programmed and it can't really be explained as it depends purely on what the RNG is spitting out and what I think may happen next. I haven't played it for a long time now as my account is closed to open up the JL challenge account.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 12:20 AM 2012
John
You finally did it! I wondered when you would.
You have obfuscated and changed terminologies, names and distances and when challenged--well, the challenger is just not smart enough to figure it out
You are the Emperor with no clothes.
Donik
If you have five reds in a row, the sixth spin is a whole new world. Could be in a casino half way round the world. Random starts anew with each new spin. I fought this idea for a long time until I met Kon-Fu-Sed. He is a mathematician.
No matter how many "four gaps" the wheel has produced, the next "four gap" has exactly the same chance of winning/losing.
Before long, John will totally obfuscate away from the FIVE and the next great thing will come along.
If Superman says he has a winning method, he does. But he will never reveal it. That is the sadness of the whole thing.
Sam
Sam ill be playing FIVE for the rest of my life just as I will Pattern Breaker. How you find it so hard to understand what five double 4 gaps are. Given you have that example to study is beyond me. That's why its called FIVE. We are betting against seeiing FIVE consecutive double 4 gaps with the first one being our trigger.
Understanding the bet trigger was difficult I admit that. But understanding what we are betting against seeing shouldn't be.
I mean you understood PATTERN BREAKER didn't you??
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 05, 05:33 PM 2012
Sam I don't think you will ever get this method. If I'm talking about a double 4 gap. And I say 5 consecutive doubles. It should be obvious what I am saying.
------D1-----D2-----D3
------04------05-----04
------04------06-----04
------05------04-----03
------04------03-----05
------04------04-----04
------06------03-----02
------03------07-----04---------THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLES
I haven't run into this for 1015 games. FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS. Study it and study it again. No rocket science or obfuscation Sam. Some understand it some don't. But its not that complicated.
I think I understand it now. I mean I think I understand this and other examples shown before....
FIVE-CONSECUTIVE-DOUBLE-4-GAPS.....its all in this words....
marvino
His words change daily!! What is fish today is foul tomorrow!!
He requires two four gaps on one dozen and one four gap on a different dozen
OR
He requires three four gaps on a single dozen BUT there must be a five gap or more between the first two and the third.
That's it by his own numbers.
There is no such thing as a "double four gap" And you never need "five double four gaps"! You need the above and one that is almost a four gap but does not go four gap. It goes to a FIVE gap or more.
John should be nervous. I understand his method after hours of study.
Sam
Sam,
I totally get FIVE now too.
Why do you say John should be nervous?
Difficult for random to beat it; although not impossible I grant you that - but looks strong.
A.
Here is how I had to write this system to understand it.
Hope this helps someone.[attachimg=1]
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 05:53 AM 2012
marvino
His words change daily!! What is fish today is foul tomorrow!!
He requires two four gaps on one dozen and one four gap on a different dozen
OR
He requires three four gaps on a single dozen BUT there must be a five gap or more between the first two and the third.
That's it by his own numbers.
There is no such thing as a "double four gap" And you never need "five double four gaps"! You need the above and one that is almost a four gap but does not go four gap. It goes to a FIVE gap or more.
John should be nervous. I understand his method after hours of study.
Sam
"He requires three four gaps on a single dozen BUT there must be a five gap or more between the first two and the third."
That's true!
In the example he was starting to bet just at this point. And then he loose 4 progressions.
Quote from: atlantis on Oct 06, 06:36 AM 2012
Sam,
I totally get FIVE now too.
Why do you say John should be nervous?
Difficult for random to beat it; although not impossible I grant you that - but looks strong.
A.
John should be nervous because in spite of his obfuscation and confusion, people have figured it out. See the post below yours.
As long as he can keep the smoke and mirrors going, he can be the Wizard of Oz. When someone pulls the curtain away, he will be exposed just as the Wizard was. I'm sure he does not want this---thus all the obfuscation and confusion; smoke and mirrors.
Let's just see if Still will allow me the pleasure of proving this method a bust!
Sam
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 06, 07:01 AM 2012
Here is how I had to write this system to understand it.
Hope this helps someone.[attachimg=1]
Kenint3
I think you have your "game trigger" and "bet trigger" mixed up, but in this case it would not matter. Basically, you have three four gaps on two different dozens and then bet on the dozen with only one to not become a four gap.
Agreed?
Sam
QuoteKenint3
I think you have your "game trigger" and "bet trigger" mixed up, but in this case it would not matter. Basically, you have three four gaps on two different dozens and then bet on the dozen with only one to not become a four gap.
Agreed?
Sam..the way i understand it is a game trigger is the FIRST dozen to produce a double 4 gap. Look at my photo. You will see dozen 1 or 'A" is the first dozen to produce 2 four gaps. Also note that before the game trigger was formed Dozen 2 or 'B" formed a single 4 gap...which by doing so it became our bet trigger further down as it began to form a possible 4 gap which is where the bet was placed and won. if it had formed a 4 gap I would have lost progression 1 and carried on to the next level.
i think this is right...JL??
Quote from: atlantis on Oct 06, 06:36 AM 2012
Sam,
I totally get FIVE now too.
Why do you say John should be nervous?
Difficult for random to beat it; although not impossible I grant you that - but looks strong.
A.
Atlantis glad you have it and Sam. Am now 1025/0
STEP 1----5 WINS
STEP 2----2 WINS
STEP 3----3 WINS
STEP 4----NOT REQUIRED.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 06, 08:43 AM 2012
Sam..the way i understand it is a game trigger is the FIRST dozen to produce a double 4 gap. Look at my photo. You will see dozen 1 or 'A" is the first dozen to produce 2 four gaps. Also note that before the game trigger was formed Dozen 2 or 'B" formed a single 4 gap...which by doing so it became our bet trigger further down as it began to form a possible 4 gap which is where the bet was placed and won. if it had formed a 4 gap I would have lost progression 1 and carried on to the next level.
i think this is right...JL??
Spot on Kevin, the BET TRIGGER can form before, in the middle or after the GAME TRIGGER.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 07:42 AM 2012
John should be nervous because in spite of his obfuscation and confusion, people have figured it out. See the post below yours.
As long as he can keep the smoke and mirrors going, he can be the Wizard of Oz. When someone pulls the curtain away, he will be exposed just as the Wizard was. I'm sure he does not want this---thus all the obfuscation and confusion; smoke and mirrors.
Let's just see if Still will allow me the pleasure of proving this method a bust!
Sam
Sam two years from now when BV are contemplating what to do about me. Once I have taken thousands from them. Do you think I will be nervous? You keep talking of smokescreens and obfuscation. Tell me how you do that on BV where cheating is impossible? You either win or lose, yes??
Kevin
You are right. The "Bet trigger" is the four gap on dozen two.
John
I lost. Period.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 11:44 AM 2012
Kevin
You are right. The "Bet trigger" is the four gap on dozen two.
John
I lost. Period.
Sam
Oh well onto the next method for you Sam and then the next. And then the next. No staying power, no longterm success Period. And to anwser this assault from you. I do not need an audience. I could leave this forum today and never return. Just let Superman and Still keep any interested informed. And Superman notify the forum when BV eventually ban me. And I'm considering doing just that. I don't need people attacking me for nothing. You try to help some people and this is what you get. I will talk to any reasonable people by PM. I don't need this.
"I will talk to any reasonable people by PM. I don't need this."
And then you'll sell it to "reasonable" people. you're a scammer, John Boy.
Watch my next thread, John. I got something for you!!
Samster
@Sam
You may have JL confused with the CLERGY. Are you sure this isn't about wifey's allegiance to the clergy's church and their 'Pascal's wager'?
Anyways, do you know the rules to Five or not? I would want to know that before i devoted any $ to a demonstration of the rules, and devotion to carrying them out.
@kevint3
Thanks for that excellent pictorial. I might actually start investing in actually understanding the rules now.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 02:08 PM 2012
"I will talk to any reasonable people by PM. I don't need this."
And then you'll sell it to "reasonable" people. you're a scammer, John Boy.
Watch my next thread, John. I got something for you!!
Samster
Sell what? the methods out there Sam. You have people who got it straight off the bat. Think before you make such slanderous statements.
This may give me away a bit, please guys enough, I look up to both of you TCS and JL, i respect both your Opinions now please shake hands :question:
Koolkat
Quote from: KoolKat on Oct 06, 02:51 PM 2012
This may give me away a bit, please guys enough, I look up to both of you TCS and JL, i respect both your Opinions now please shake hands :question:
Koolkat
I knew it! You are Garnabby!
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 06, 02:06 PM 2012I don't need people attacking me for nothing. You try to help some people and this is what you get. I will talk to any reasonable people by PM. I don't need this.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 02:08 PM 2012
And then you'll sell it to "reasonable" people. you're a scammer, John Boy.
Reminds me of a passage in the Gospel of Thomas where Jesus takes Thomas aside to tell him three things in private. Interestingly, Thomas does not say what they were. Later, from another book published in the last ten years, and also by the same Thomas, i found out what those three things were, and why he was instructed not to say anything. I won't say what they were, but the reason is because they would have been considered blasphemous, even amongst the rest of the disciples, who, having been brought up amongst stone-throwers, were themselves still a bit trigger happy. So it was for Thomas' protection. If true, it would explain the almost inexplicable enmity between Thomas and the rest of the crew, who eventually ostracized him. Likewise, anyone falling in with the rest of the crew still, to this day, ostracizes Thomas.
But i digress (or maybe not)...
~Still
Quote from: Still on Oct 06, 02:52 PM 2012
I knew it! You are Garnabby!
Still who is Garnabby :ooh: K
Quote from: KoolKat on Oct 06, 03:09 PM 2012
Still who is Garnabby :ooh: K
Garnabby is the nemesis of anyone who has faith in the ability to win (long term) in roulette. So of course it was a joke. However, your request is as unlikely as it would be for christians to shake hands with the apostle Thomas.
.
I owe John an apology. I spoke like an a--hole.
I took offense when I said I lost and he took comfort and pleasure in that.
Sorry, John. Let me retract those words if you will.
Sam
Quote@kevint3
Thanks for that excellent pictorial. I might actually start investing in actually understanding the rules now.
@ Still --- No problem. I really like the premise of this system. If it works have as good as it has for John I would be happy. I have watched silently in this thread trying to figure it out. Now I don't think I could play without it... Lets hope it works for all those who want it to.
Hi kevint3, I guess i am struggling like some of us on this forum. in you Pictorial you had 2 = a 1=b as trigger maybe a stupid question can i ask why did you bet against the B for a win was it because this presented a 4 gap?
cheers K
I was just curious by JL claims of his long winning streaks with FIVE. Some people doubt that this bet selection is better than any 4 double dozen bets. I conducted some experiment involving 6 separate bet selections using RNG in RX software. I ran 160 sessions of 1000 spins and looked at breakdown in each session of results of betting against 1 dozen or column repeating itself 4 times - so 6 separate bet selections involving 4 step progression. So essentially i tested 1M spins involving 600000+ games in total. No session which produced around 600+ games for each dozen and column ended without loss. There were just 3 or 4 that had a single loss. Overall i did not keep stats of strike rate but i think that it was close to average of one loss in 80 games.
So it just intrigued me that John is currently at 1000+ games winning streak. Maybe there is a limit to random if his stats are correct ;D and FIVE can beat an average strike rate by a significant margin.
Like i keep saying, 5 is astrology not astronomy...and not many people with a telescope read their horoscopes. There will allways be a split camp with this kind of system.
Turner
Quote from: Turner on Oct 07, 04:43 AM 2012
Like i keep saying, 5 is astrology not astronomy...and not many people with a telescope read their horoscopes. There will allways be a split camp with this kind of system.
Turner
My split persona tells me one thing from a mathematical point of view but if you see some stats its other thing. Anyway a few people have a beef because of the current setup of JL challenge. The problem is that Five bets represent just a small fraction of all the bets because you have to bet each spin on BV. So if you see 0.05u gain with 0.01u base bet you really dont know what it represents. Btw i tested again my sessions on RX and again no 600 games session without a loss in about 1000 games. :D
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Oct 07, 06:11 AM 2012
by the way i tested again my sessions on RX and again no 600 games session without a loss in about 1000 games. :D
matt....Just run that by me again mate.....
Always remember, im slow as fuk!
Quote from: Turner on Oct 07, 08:16 AM 2012
matt....Just run that by me again mate.....
Always remember, I'm slow as fuk!
To clarify i meant 1000 sessions of 600+ games. And my point is that we have essentially the bet with the same chance either betting against 4 doubles like FIVE and against 4 consecutive dozens or columns like in my testing. And according to John stats he hit 1000+ winning streak and in RX testing other bet selections struggle with 600 mark in 2M spins. It just got me thinking but i can not get my math out of my head...
Quote from: KoolKat on Oct 07, 03:52 AM 2012
Hi kevint3, I guess i am struggling like some of us on this forum. in you Pictorial you had 2 = a 1=b as trigger maybe a silly question can i ask why did you bet against the B for a win was it because this presented a 4 gap?
cheers K
Hi KoolKat. I have stuggled as well to understand this. I read this whole topic over and over to try to get it.
Let me try this to explain the picture I posted.
A= the 1st dozen on your roulette board (1-12)
B= the 2nd dozen on your roulette board (13-24)
c= the 3rd dozen on your roulette board (24-36)
For me personally I broke it down to 3 letters to deal with rather then numerous numbers that can get more confusing to me.
Now on to the pic. Look at the top of the picture. Both "A" + "B" dozens each formed their own single 4 gaps. We continue spinning looking for the next 4 gap. In the picture "A" was the next 4 gap. Now given we had "A" at the top of the pic and further down "A" again it became the first dozen to produce a "double 4gap"
Now look closely and within that double "A" 4 gap "B" started to form a potential 4 gap. Now since we had "B" as a single 4 gap at the top of the pic..we are going to bet that IT DOES NOT form another 4 gap...so when you see that it is a 3 gap at that point is when you place your bet. In this case it is going to be 1 unit on "A" dozen and another unit on "C" dozen. The spin came out "A" so we win.
If we had lost...we would continue to play. In that case you would wait for any 4 gaps to form. Then wait for a betting opportunity again.
I hope this doesn't confuse you anymore. I am willing to help you get this if you wish.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Oct 07, 09:14 AM 2012
To clarify i meant 1000 sessions of 600+ games. And my point is that we have essentially the bet with the same chance either betting against 4 doubles like FIVE
Just so we are on the same page....you do realize we are betting against 5 doubles forming...not 4? Thus the name FIVE...
maybe I am wrong??
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 07, 09:25 AM 2012
Just so we are on the same page....you do realize we are betting against 5 doubles forming...not 4? Thus the name FIVE...
maybe I am wrong??
Yeah you are right of course - 4 step progression. Im getting ahead of myself. ;D
LMAO..ok...just checking myself as it seems whenever I read this thread there is always something new within the system that i didn't know before.
As always ...good luck winning!!
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 07, 09:34 AM 2012
Not to be a further arse, but I don't think you're right.
I think that the rules for FIVE are clear now but the problem is that in BV results there is no clue as to bet selection as i stated before.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 07, 09:18 AM 2012
Hi KoolKat. I have stuggled as well to understand this. I read this whole topic over and over to try to get it.
Let me try this to explain the picture I posted.
A= the 1st dozen on your roulette board (1-12)
B= the 2nd dozen on your roulette board (13-24)
c= the 3rd dozen on your roulette board (24-36)
For me personally I broke it down to 3 letters to deal with rather then numerous numbers that can get more confusing to me.
Now on to the pic. Look at the top of the picture. Both "A" + "B" dozens each formed their own single 4 gaps. We continue spinning looking for the next 4 gap. In the picture "A" was the next 4 gap. Now given we had "A" at the top of the pic and further down "A" again it became the first dozen to produce a "double 4gap"
Now look closely and within that double "A" 4 gap "B" started to form a potential 4 gap. Now since we had "B" as a single 4 gap at the top of the pic..we are going to bet that IT DOES NOT form another 4 gap...so when you see that it is a 3 gap at that point is when you place your bet. In this case it is going to be 1 unit on "A" dozen and another unit on "C" dozen. The spin came out "A" so we win.
If we had lost...we would continue to play. In that case you would wait for any 4 gaps to form. Then wait for a betting opportunity again.
I hope this doesn't confuse you anymore. I am willing to help you get this if you wish.
Gotcha Kevint3 Thank you so much for the fantastic explanation. Koolkat
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 07, 06:01 PM 2012
Kevint3
OK, I agree with your post using the ABC method of identifying dozens. Know which one?
OK..............
Now, the big pregunta..........
Suppose you lost. Do you continue on with that trot of numbers or do you start all over? If you continue on, is the single "four gap" in the game since it did not form a second four gap? Could it be a second trigger if--say a "double four gap"--as we're now calling it--forms in the C dozen?
Sam...
Ok this is the way I understand it. Not 100% sure i am right as it is not my method. If I have lost then that would mean there would be 2 double 4 gaps. The game trigger one and the one that we bet and lost on. We are betting there will not be a total of 5. So when you lose you wait for another 4 gap to form...It could be "A"..."B" or "C" or hell it could be all 3 of them that form. For arguments sake...lets say after you lost you continue spinning and "C" forms a 4 gap. That is what you are looking for. Any dozen to form a 4 gap. You then wait for C" to form a 3 gap and at that point you would bet a unit on A + B. Now it is very possible that while you are waiting for "C" to form that 3 gap bet trigger that another dozen forms a 4 gap. If that happens you would look for whatever one forms the 3 gap first so you could place your bet against it.
I hope that is clear...and I hope that I am right.
Now....if you win....good question...
My guess is you would continue to play on looking for the process to start all over again. Me personally if I won...I would switch to another Roulette machine in the casino and start tracking that.
Is that any clearer or is that more confusing?
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 07, 07:53 PM 2012
Sam...
Ok this is the way I understand it. Not 100% sure i am right as it is not my method. If I have lost then that would mean there would be 2 double 4 gaps. The game trigger one and the one that we bet and lost on. We are betting there will not be a total of 5. So when you lose you wait for another 4 gap to form...It could be "A"..."B" or "C" or hell it could be all 3 of them that form. For arguments sake...lets say after you lost you continue spinning and "C" forms a 4 gap. That is what you are looking for. Any dozen to form a 4 gap. You then wait for C" to form a 3 gap and at that point you would bet a unit on A + B. Now it is very possible that while you are waiting for "C" to form that 3 gap bet trigger that another dozen forms a 4 gap. If that happens you would look for whatever one forms the 3 gap first so you could place your bet against it.
I hope that is clear...and I hope that I am right.
Now....if you win....good question...
My guess is you would continue to play on looking for the process to start all over again. Me personally if I won...I would switch to another Roulette machine in the casino and start tracking that.
Is that any clearer or is that more confusing?
100% correct Kevin. I took it for granted everyone knows what the word consecutive means. It appears some don't. I'm not going to be on this forum much anymore. But I will anwser any queries by pm or email. Contrary to what I'm being accused of I don't need any of it. The method isn't rocket science. If you can't get your head around it, move on.
Ah, so there's another change in the rules :question:
I only knew if you had lost on a trigger you would continue tracking until a dozen forms a 4 gap.
Then you STAY ON THAT DOZEN till a betting opportunity.
And now it appears to be.
If you get a 4 gap and track further and meanwhile you get another 4 gap in another dozen, you track both until one presents a betting opportunity.
Wich one is it John, stay on the dozen that formed the 4 gap or jump to the one that presents you with the first opportunity to bet (if you have 2 with a 4 gap) ??
Stephan
Quote from: Stepkevh on Oct 08, 01:54 AM 2012
Ah, so there's another change in the rules :question:
I only knew if you had lost on a trigger you would continue tracking until a dozen forms a 4 gap.
Then you STAY ON THAT DOZEN till a betting opportunity.
And now it appears to be.
If you get a 4 gap and track further and meanwhile you get another 4 gap in another dozen, you track both until one presents a betting opportunity.
Wich one is it John, stay on the dozen that formed the 4 gap or jump to the one that presents you with the first opportunity to bet (if you have 2 with a 4 gap) ??
Stephan
I guess it was pretty clear that you stayed with the dozen that became bet trigger.
Anyway i dont think it would affect a strike rate if we changed dozen and bet on the first one giving us a bet.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Oct 08, 01:54 AM 2012
Ah, so there's another change in the rules :question:
I only knew if you had lost on a trigger you would continue tracking until a dozen forms a 4 gap.
Then you STAY ON THAT DOZEN till a betting opportunity.
And now it appears to be.
If you get a 4 gap and track further and meanwhile you get another 4 gap in another dozen, you track both until one presents a betting opportunity.
Wich one is it John, stay on the dozen that formed the 4 gap or jump to the one that presents you with the first opportunity to bet (if you have 2 with a 4 gap) ??
Stephan
The first oppurtunity to bet stephan to stay CONSECUTIVE. We are betting agaimst FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS. That has to be understood. The first being our GAME TRIGGER.
okay,
then i finally got it completely now...
IF there arent any rules anymore to be explained :P
Hi all,
This is my very first session using five. Am I doing something wrong? :o
see my attachment
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------05-----04
-----04------09-----04
-----08------04-----05
-----07------04-----04
-----04------07-----04
-----04------13-----10
That is five consecutive DOUBLE 4 GAPS. Anything less or more than a four gap makes no difference. We are ultimately betting against seeing FIVE of those in a row. Study and study it again. And stop over-complicating the method. You are confusing yourself and others by trying too hard. There's nothing to it. The first DOUBLE 4 GAP Is the GAME TRIGGER. We then bet against that happenning four more times consecutively. No matter what dozen, or how long it takes. The simple fact is we dont want to see what you see in that example.
FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 08, 10:58 AM 2012
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------05-----04
-----04------09-----04
-----08------04-----05
-----07------04-----04
-----04------07-----04
-----04------13-----10
That is five consecutive DOUBLE 4 GAPS. Anything less or more than a four gap makes no difference. We are ultimately betting against seeing FIVE of those in a row. Study and study it again. And stop over-complicating the method. You are confusing yourself and others by trying too hard. There's nothing to it. The first DOUBLE 4 GAP Is the GAME TRIGGER. We then bet against that happenning four more times consecutively. No matter what dozen, or how long it takes. The simple fact is we don't want to see what you see in that example.
FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS.
Ok..now i am lost again...
I was under the assumption that this example below is also not what we want to see
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------05-----04
-----08------04-----05
-----04------09-----04
----07------04-----06
-----04------07-----04
-----04------13-----04
???????
That's exactly what I thought too kevint3
Ok...in re-reading from scratch...it appears the GAME TRIGGER does not have to be consecutive.
For example you could have your starting 4 gap in doz 1...then have a 5 gap in dozen 1 then another 4 gap..that becomes your game trigger....
but all other progression you are betting against them forming consecutive...aka 'back to back'
ok my head is spinning
I think you got it right kevint3. But John has to confirm it.
But the question is....After we have our Game trigger double 4 gap...
Lets say we have a dozen producing a single four gap....now after that lets say it produces a few 2 and 3 gaps...do we disregard the 2 and 3 gaps and use that 4 gap as our pre bet trigger or do we have to wait for another 4 gap to form and wait again for another potential 4 gap to bet against?
In other words do we toss out that single 4 gap produced after the game trigger because it was followed by several 2 and 3 gaps?
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 11:40 AM 2012
Ok..now i am lost again...
I was under the assumption that this example below is also not what we want to see
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------05-----04
-----08------04-----05
-----04------09-----04
----07------04-----06
-----04------07-----04
-----04------13-----04
??? ??? ?
No Kevin a gap LESS THAN A 4 GAP can separate TWO 4GAPS. But not a GAP MORE THAN A 4 GAP EXAMPLE.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------06-----09
-----03------04-----06
-----04------04-----04
-----07------06-----02
-----04------04-----04
-----04------04-----10---------------FIVE CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE 4 GAPS.
You see that example above. A DOUBLE 4 GAP may be separated by gaps 1---3 but not a gap 5 or more. Do you get this?
I am not putting up with any snide comments or slander on my thread. I had to read it on the thread of TCS who of late seems to have forgotten to take his medication. And has just become an annoying nuisance. Not interested in learning anything. Just stirring up trouble. And making ridiculous slanderous comments towards me.
The saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks comes to mind here. So taking a leaf out of Iggiv and Supermans book. Any posts that do not contribute to the method are gone.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 12:21 PM 2012
But the question is....After we have our Game trigger double 4 gap...
Lets say we have a dozen producing a single four gap....now after that lets say it produces a few 2 and 3 gaps...do we disregard the 2 and 3 gaps and use that 4 gap as our pre bet trigger or do we have to wait for another 4 gap to form and wait again for another potential 4 gap to bet against?
In other words do we toss out that single 4 gap produced after the game trigger because it was followed by several 2 and 3 gaps?
No we don't. A single 4 gap only becomes VOID. If its followed by a 5 gap or more. There can be several gaps of 1---3 separating TWO 4 GAPS. And it will still qualify as a DOUBLE 4 GAP. This is crucial for all to understand.
I understand FIVE clearly now John! Thank you so much for your help!
Excellent. Now I understand as well... Thank you.
Quote from: SamNL on Oct 08, 01:20 PM 2012
I understand FIVE clearly now John! Thank you so much for your help!
You are welcome. I will keep going until I have helped those genuinely interested, understand FIVE completely.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 01:31 PM 2012
Excellent. Now I understand as well... Thank you.
Great Kevin. There are no more twists or turns that is it right there. My appologies to everyone for not being more comprehensive about the method in my first attempt to explain it. I want everyone to know it completely. And to that end I will help anyone who really wants to learn FIVE.
JL...just out of curiosity...
Why is it that in the Game Trigger double 4 gap that those do not have to be consecutive but for the progressions they do? Why not consistency from beginning to end?
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 01:43 PM 2012
JL...just out of curiosity...
Why is it that in the Game Trigger double 4 gap that those do not have to be consecutive but for the progressions they do? Why not consistency from beginning to end?
Kevin not totally with you. Can you show me what you are saying with a diagram? Thanks.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 21, 10:50 AM 2012
For the GAME TRIGGER the double four gap.don't have to be consecutive. You simply target the first dozen that shows you Two four gaps. Here are two examples of what could be you Game Trigger.
DOZEN 1--4
4
DOZEN 1--4
6
5
4
Both of rhese could be game triggers. Do you understand this??
First you said this...that these can be game triggers...
and for the Bet triggers you say they must be consecutive. I guess my question would be why is it ok for the game trigger to not be consecutive but all other double four gaps must be?
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 03:33 PM 2012
First you said this...that these can be game triggers...
and for the Bet triggers you say they must be consecutive. I guess my question would be why is it ok for the game trigger to not be consecutive but all other double four gaps must be?
I was wrong there Kevin. Made a mistake. It flows through the entire 5 DOUBLE 4 GAPS. That they cannot be separated by a gap greater than 3. I like a drink once in a while Kevin. So sometimes I make mistakes when Ive had a few. But I will always correct myself and admit my mistake. So now you know as standard. Its consistent all the way through.
JL...thank you for the clarification. Now you can see where some got confused.
I think this method is now clear as we have re-hashed every possible angle. Time to test it.
I like that same drink once in a while too.
thanks again
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 03:45 PM 2012
JL...thank you for the clarification. Now you can see where some got confused.
I think this method is now clear as we have re-hashed every possible angle. Time to test it.
I like that same drink once in a while too.
thanks again
You are welcome. BV seriously tested me tonight. And I am sure a loss is coming. Taken to the 4th step 3 times in 6 games. But survived. Now 1045/0
Here is a copy of the first game i played in a "Live" casino. For me to track it is easiest to do
A= 1st DOZ B= 2nd DOZ C=3rd DOZ
Taken to first progression and won[attach=1]
Here is a copy of the 2nd game I played in the casino. This one was a real bear as the RNG really struggled to produce single four gaps let alone double ones. This took about 30-35 mins to grind this game out. I think/hope I did it right.
[attach=1]
Here is a pic of the RNG machine played at in the live casino
If you are wondering...while yes I did "win" the 2 games played. I did lose a total of $10 due to the fact to get the machine to start spinning I needed to bet on red and black. The zero came out a few times a hit me. When I did win my bets I only had a $1 on each of the dozens. Since i am testing these RNG's I am yet to bet "heavy"....need more work to make sure this method is legit.
Thank you for viewing.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 10:03 PM 2012
Here is a pic of the RNG machine played at in the live casino
If you are wondering...while yes I did "win" the 2 games played. I did lose a total of $10 due to the fact to get the machine to start spinning I needed to bet on red and black. The zero came out a few times a hit me. When I did win my bets I only had a $1 on each of the dozens. Since i am testing these RNG's I am yet to bet "heavy"....need more work to make sure this method is legit.
Thank you for viewing.
I have to know where those machines are? They look awesome. Can you spin for free?
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 10:03 PM 2012
Here is a pic of the RNG machine played at in the live casino
If you are wondering...while yes I did "win" the 2 games played. I did lose a total of $10 due to the fact to get the machine to start spinning I needed to bet on red and black. The zero came out a few times a hit me. When I did win my bets I only had a $1 on each of the dozens. Since i am testing these RNG's I am yet to bet "heavy"....need more work to make sure this method is legit.
Thank you for viewing.
Yes Kevin, that's the problem I have at BV and the reason I have to employ several methods. By the time you reach your bet you can be 10 points down just from moving the RNG. If you could sit spins out like a live casino, Id already have at least 4000 points.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 09, 01:28 AM 2012
Yes Kevin, that's the problem I have at BV and the reason I have to employ several methods. By the time you reach your bet you can be 10 points down just from moving the RNG. If you could sit spins out like a live casino, Id already have at least 4000 points.
BV increased the limits to 0.05 so its going to get tougher. Anyway personally i dont see any point in continuing it because we dont see the real breakdown of bets like on Bayes RNG. Most of the bets are placed just to keep wheel spinning. On Superman reports we just see mostly winning sessions but also some losing ones. Pity that Stef work was wasted due to the rules change.
These machines have a minimum bet of usa $1. So $1 on red and $1 on black to get the wheel to spin to track.
Sam yes ...it is a continuation. There is only so much room on the paper to write. It goes from top to bottom...left to right. In game 2 you will notice I had 4 seperate 4 gaps before I actually got the double 4 gap game trigger. These 4 prior 4 gaps were deemed not valid due to the various amount of gaps between the actual double four gap. I almost had a game trigger but there was a 5 gap that deemed it not valid prior to the actual game trigger. Again this is n the picture of "game 2" I am referring to.
Thank you
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Oct 09, 02:53 AM 2012
BV increased the limits to 0.05 so its going to get tougher. Anyway personally i don't see any point in continuing it because we don't see the real breakdown of bets like on Bayes RNG. Most of the bets are placed just to keep wheel spinning. On Superman reports we just see mostly winning sessions but also some losing ones. Pity that Stef work was wasted due to the rules change.
Matt when did this increase happen? It will be tougher but I will keep going anyway. Until Superman an me have made over 100K each. If necessary I will send Superman 120 euro so that the 5 cent min bets are the equivalent of the 1 cent bets I make now. It appears BV might be a little worried. Even though I'm smalltime at the moment. What no gambling establishment likes to see is someone who never loses or very rarely. That's worrying for them.
QuoteBV increased the limits to 0.05
As far as I know it's only the no zero table that's changed so JL should still be ok
Quote from: superman on Oct 09, 08:49 AM 2012
As far as I know it's only the no zero table that's changed so JL should still be ok
Okay Superman, yes we have to remember there's several versions.
Quote from: kevint3 on Oct 08, 09:51 PM 2012
Here is a copy of the 2nd game I played in the casino. This one was a real bear as the RNG really struggled to produce single four gaps let alone double ones. This took about 30-35 mins to grind this game out. I think/hope I did it right.
[attach=1]
Kevint3 Now i am completely lost why wait for 7 gaps before placing a bet. You pictorals are great however Many thanks K
Quote from: KoolKat on Oct 09, 03:02 PM 2012
Kevint3 Now i am completely lost why wait for 7 gaps before placing a bet. You pictorals are great however Many thanks K
In Kevins example. There were 7 4 GAPS in total, but only ONE became a fully qualifed BET TRIGGER. For this to happen after we have established which dozen has given us our GAME TRIGGER (EXAMPLE BELOW) We need a Single 4 GAP. followed by a potential 4 GAP. Examples below.
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------09-----05------DOZEN 1 IS THE GAME TRIGGER
-----04------07-----04------DOZEN 3 IS THE BET TRIGGER
-----06------05-----03------WE NOW BET THIS GOES BEYOND 4 ON THE NEXT SPIN BY COVERING DOZEN 1 AND DOZEN 2.
If it does we have won the bet if it doesn't we continue tracking until we get a repeat of this oppurtunity on the first dozen that presents it. FIVE is totally about allowing random to present the bet to us.
Unlike a rigid matrix method where you wait for something to happen on a grid. Here you will likely never have two games that look the same.
Holy Moses. I understood that. Either I'm sober or John is!! ^-^
Quote from: KoolKat on Oct 09, 03:02 PM 2012
Kevint3 Now i am completely lost why wait for 7 gaps before placing a bet. You pictorals are great however Many thanks K
KoolKat...yes..true there were 7 4 gaps...but look at that pic again closely. remember we need any dozen to produce CONSECUTIVE 4 gaps for that to be a GAME TRIGGER. Now looking at that pic..the first 4 four gaps you see are basically worthless as none are consecuetive to get our game started. John has stated that to be qualified as consecutive it can have no gaps greater then 4 between them.
In that pic I drew in where the consecutive or double four gap game trigger is.
Now that I had the double 4 gap I track further hoping and waiting for random to produce another 4 gap in any dozen. When it does track further and at the point that that dozen produces a 3 gap we bet. We bet that it WILL NOT be a 4 gap.
That part can be tricky to understand.
I think of it like this....
We are "letting" random produce 1 double (consecutive) 4 gap. In fact when playing you are begging it to.
We don't want them to produce anymore and bet that it won't. But how can you bet it won't?
well one has to "form"...in order to form ..we are begging random to produce a single four gap. And the start of another...notice I said start...once it is a 3 gap you must bet against it. if it does become a 4 gap you lose progression one. You then continue on looking for another 4 gap to form then the 3 gap bet. These have to be consecutive by Johns definition. The progression is a 4 step.
I am new to this and learning too.
I hope this helps.
Thank you
I must ask:
D1
4
x
x.......these xs must all be "3 gaps" or less. No fives or greater?
x
x
4
Kevint3
You are like St. Paul preaching the gospel of Jesus. People couldn't understand Jesus, but Paul could speak to them. (Something like that!)
Oh, Lordy! One rum and coke and I've compared Jl to Jesus!!
Sam
Sam..LMFAO..
Yes you are right..those x's must be 3 gaps or less to qualify as "consecutive" by John's definition. A 5 gap or more would disqualify that first 4 gap.
Basically that is it right there in a nut shell Sam. You let the first one develop as a full double 4 gap..and all others after that first one become betting material. It is just a matter of tracking at that point. I cannot be bothered writing every number down and use the A-B-C system of labeling the dozens when tracking.
See if you were trying to get TRUE consecutive (back to back) 4 gaps you would be waiting a long long time. I can see the reason now for the 3 gap or less allowance between them.
Good luck Sam....
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 09, 01:28 AM 2012
Yes Kevin, that's the problem I have at BV and the reason I have to employ several methods. By the time you reach your bet you can be 10 points down just from moving the RNG. If you could sit spins out like a live casino, Id already have at least 4000 points.
My goal is to play and win 4 games on 4 different machines each time I go into the casino. I will track zero losses that I get and on the 5th game my goal will be to recoup all zero losses. Then walk out. Easier said then done...haha
TwoCat if the users on here start to think JohnLegend is the Messiah, God is very concerned!
Ahem..where was I?
Agree with his system or not, JohnLegend presents his work with wide appeal and has "assistants" to help explain particulars. (Very impressive if you ask me.)
I do miss Stackbundles from "The Zone" days years earlier.
Kevin3t
OK, let's say a five gap did form between the double four gap. Two questions:
1. Would you throw out the older four gap and start again with the newer one?
2. Can you see what the five gap does that is so bad to the system?
Proof
It's not that I don't agree or disagree--I just don't understand it well enough to try it.
I realize that if this does work, it will be a rather fantastic discovery? Like the principle behind refrigeration or hydraulics. I just have to see it to believe it.
Sam
So from the beginning we had 3 essential changes.
1. In game trigger 2 4 gaps in the same dozen can not be separated by a greater than 4 gap,
2. Bet trigger can happen before a game trigger was formed (2nd 4 gap was formed in the same dozen),
3. You bet on any dozen that gives you a bet trigger - you don't have to stay on the first dozen that gives you a bet trigger
What about an original stipulation that if a game trigger and a bet trigger dozen are the same then
the gap between them has to be bigger than 4?
RH,
Thats because the first double 4gap is already formed and have to be seperated.
Otherwise it would be 3 consecutive 4 gaps and not 2 :D
Somebody, correct me if i'm wrong but i think i'm on it ;D
Quote from: Johnlegend on Sep 19, 03:43 PM 2012
Introduction. This method came to be after something clicked in my mind while revisiting THE ZONE. When I was struggling against Bayes RNG in the early days of my challenge. With the ZONE we would wait until a dozen had slept for 4 consecutive spins then attempt to get a hit between spins 5--8 using a 1,1,2,3=7 points risk progression. What came to my mind was before you get to five there has to be a FOUR. And its the behaviour of these FOURS that enabled me to get up to over 2000 points with relative ease against an RNG.
THE RULES.
1, We track the dozens until one of them produces two consecutive 4 gaps as in the example below.
DOZEN 1
6
7
4
4---This is our trigger.
2, we now continue tracking until another dozen or the same dozen produces another 4 gap. If the same dozen produces a 4 gap it must be separated from the starting trigger by a gap greater than 4 as in the example below.
DOZEN 1
6
7
4
4---Trigger
5
4--Trigger to bet.
5--Win, as it did not become another 4 gap.
3, We now bet against that dozen producing two consecutive 4 gaps again, by betting it becomes a five or more. So we bet on the other two dozens.
4, We repeat this process for up to 4 games using the classic 1,3,9,27 progression. What we are in effect doing is betting against 5 consecutive double FOURS forming. I have never seen more than four doubles in a row so far. And that includes when Zero has hit.
5, Tracking can take between 30---60 spins to get your game. On Bayes RNG this was easy as it was lightning fast. On a live wheel it will require more patience of course. But its solid. And I truly believe its RNG proof too. As I have won over 700 games in a row against them. As always all questions are welcome.
Stef
Thats what i meant.
Does this become invalid with the other changings ?
Quote from: Stepkevh on Oct 10, 12:40 AM 2012
Does this become invalid with the other changings ?
I dont have a clue Steph. ;D I would do away with all the requirements about a gaps being longer or shorter than 4 but its John method. Just game trigger, bet trigger and place the first available bet.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Oct 09, 11:47 PM 2012
So from the beginning we had 3 essential changes.
1. In game trigger 2 4 gaps in the same dozen can not be separated by a greater than 4 gap,
2. Bet trigger can happen before a game trigger was formed (2nd 4 gap was formed in the same dozen),
3. You bet on any dozen that gives you a bet trigger - you don't have to stay on the first dozen that gives you a bet trigger
What about an original stipulation that if a game trigger and a bet trigger dozen are the same then
the gap between them has to be bigger than 4?
There were no changes Matt I just didn't go into explicit detail about every possibility on my original draft. As GLC said this method is both simple and complex at the same time.
Regarding an entire game on the same DOZEN, the GAME TRIGGER and BET TRIGGER must indeed be separated by a 5 GAP or more. EXAMPLE
-----D1
-----04
-----03
-----04-----GAME TRIGGER
-----07
-----04-----BET TRIGGER
-----03-----We now bet this goes beyond a 4 GAP by covering Dozen 2 and Dozen 3.
To those asking why must there be a gap no greater than 3 separating 4 GAPS in the game trigger? The reason is that's the whole point of the method. We are betting against randoms ability to keep forming gaps LESS than 5 for any great length of tme. I know from my days playing THE ZONE. Its very difficult for all three dozens to stay under 5 for long. That's where this idea came from.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 10, 01:29 AM 2012
There were no changes Matt I just didn't go into explicit detail about every possibility on my original draft. As GLC said this method is both simple and complex at the same time.
Regarding an entire game on the same DOZEN, the GAME TRIGGER and BET TRIGGER must indeed be separated by a 5 GAP or more. EXAMPLE
-----D1
-----04
-----03
-----04-----GAME TRIGGER
-----07
-----04-----BET TRIGGER
-----03-----We now bet this goes beyond a 4 GAP by covering Dozen 2 and Dozen 3.
Thanks for explanation and i dont have any problem with any changes after something is posted.
Ok, I have to ask.
Let's say after we lost our first bet on dozen 1 and before there is a 5 gap there comes another 4 gap on the 1st dozen then this doesn't become our bet trigger, am I right?
Example:
-----D1
-----04
-----03
-----04 -Game trigger
-----05
-----04 -Bet trigger
-----04 -Lost 1st bet
-----03
-----04 -No bet trigger, am I right about this?
Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 06, 11:17 AM 2012
Atlantis glad you have it and Sam. Am now 1025/0
STEP 1----5 WINS
STEP 2----2 WINS
STEP 3----3 WINS
STEP 4----NOT REQUIRED.
What does 1025 mean? 1025 games? Are you in profit for 1025 units (playing 1 unit base bet)?Also what does those wins 5,2,3....on the steps mean?I just cant figure it out....Thank you!
The explanations of this strategy sure have produced many headaches :). Great strategy though once you get it, even though there are times where you will wait a lot for the trigger.
Quote from: SamNL on Oct 10, 03:53 AM 2012
Ok, I have to ask.
Let's say after we lost our first bet on dozen 1 and before there is a 5 gap there comes another 4 gap on the 1st dozen then this doesn't become our bet trigger, am I right?
Example:
-----D1
-----04
-----03
-----04 -Game trigger
-----05
-----04 -Bet trigger
-----04 -Lost 1st bet
-----03
-----04 -No bet trigger, am I right about this?
Sam...while i could be wrong....but i do believe that your last 4 Gap WOULD be a bet trigger.
The 5 gap or more seperation in the same dozen only applies after the game trigger.
Anyone?
QuoteAlso what does those wins 5,2,3....on the steps mean?
Means each level of progression how far hes been taken
(link:://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/skakus/banging_head.gif)
Hi,
To avoid continuing and constant confusion I really do believe and recommend a total complete refresh/rewrite of the correct and exact rules. After all, it's about time and is desperately needed in my opinion... Doesn't matter if it is a long post or takes more than one post to fully explain. Everyone thinking of attempting to play this needs to have CLARITY and CONFIDENCE that they are operating it properly- otherwise costly or incorrect bets could be made...
I personally do not feel qualified to do this important undertaking - as like TCS and others am still mystified and perplexed to a certain degree. This may be down to the way it is being presented and the terminology being used that seems causing ambiguity in some instances.
Anyhow, in the end, that is what I strongly suggest is called for here!
We need to get total 100% understanding so can be played 100% rightly.
A.