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OK,  messed up the first time I tried a poll.  Stupid forum won't let me delete it.

SO

Who thinks John is just giving us the run around and will never allow himself to be tested properly?    It's like the donkey with the carrot in front on the stick.  We just plod along, hoping for a carrot and John is in the wagon laughing his arse off!!

I'm ready to move on.

Sam

Sam.

I assume your Poll is regarding FIVE only ? and nothing to do with JL's other work.

Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 04, 01:55 PM 2012
OK,  messed up the first time I tried a poll.  silly forum won't let me delete it.

SO

Who thinks John is just giving us the run around and will never allow himself to be tested properly?    It's like the donkey with the carrot in front on the stick.  We just plod along, hoping for a carrot and John is in the wagon laughing his arse off!!

I'm ready to move on.

Sam

Am glad you got it finally....it's better to lose time then money.

Yep, just the FIVE.

Thanks Sam.

Dino.

He has no reason to lie about the results but i don't believe he sticks to the rules as he posts....the *human factor* thing remember  ;)   i believe he chooses when to bet by feeling and (i don't think he's being straight forward about that) and also think he's a lucky fellow....how else, in any system he touches he gets these whooping results?!
come up with a system where you bet once every 70 spins, give it to JL and you'll see him post the same whooping results.... ;)
why in the world is a guy who's been beatting roullete for ages be playing cents at BV?! :o
vundarosa

Five was not the first method here  that was not completely understood. For me the explanation was pretty clear from the beginning, maybe the fact that a bet trigger can happen before a game trigger could have been explained better. We get updates on how many games are won playing Five as well.
And the fact is that many including me question why it is supposed to work. And it affects the judgement on other issues.

Why he is now playing for censts  on BV? ??? ?


To me unswer is very simple.....remember him saying in past;only B&M casinos....
but now BV...... 2+2= SUPER 4......you ppl.with me? ??? ? It is trap.

Im trying not to attack the man but i think john style of roulette system in my view is like astrology compared to astronomy. Both subjects are based on the same physical properties i.e. Stars, but one is real and one is fantasy.
5 is a means to an end. Its not fun and is terribly boring. I am not willing to suggest john is lying in any way or telling the truth. At the end of the day...as iggiv says...you only lie to yourself

My problem is with the testing itself.  Anyone can write something out wrong.  Humans have terrible trouble communicating, even when they speak the same language.  (What is John's first language?  LoL  TCH)

To conduct a proper test one must post hard and fast rules and stick to them.  If you cannot stick to hard and fast rules, it is not a system.  Case closed!

A system:

Bet every fifth spin to be red.

Not a system:

Bet every fifth spin if you think it will be red.

I need to let all this go.  It is not good for me and my wife is tired of my being on this box all the time.

Sam

P

Quote from: vundarosa on Oct 04, 09:52 PM 2012
He has no reason to lie about the results but i don't believe he sticks to the rules as he posts....the *human factor* thing remember  ;)   i believe he chooses when to bet by feeling and (i don't think he's being straight forward about that) and also think he's a lucky fellow....how else, in any system he touches he gets these whooping results?!
come up with a system where you bet once every 70 spins, give it to JL and you'll see him post the same whooping results.... ;)
why in the world is a guy who's been beatting roulette for ages be playing cents at BV?! :o
vundarosa

Vundarosa you are wrong. There are very few methods that can really beat this game. What I do is nothing special. If a man who has no patience decides he can't wait 50 spins average to win. That's fair enough. But to then attack A man that can is wrong. I'm using cents for two reasons at present. A, the account belongs to Superman and its his 20 euro I am working with. And B, I don't fully trust BV yet. When I do I will open my own account and get serious. Playing the fun mode at BV I've made 71.5 euro without really trying from their 1000 euro BR. If they are really fair I will be winning over 100 euro a week by this time next year. Half for Superman half for me. By 2014. I will be winnng over 400 euro a week. If BV allow it. No ones taking me seriously yet. That will change in time.

They'll have to ban me, mark those words.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 05, 12:35 PM 2012

No ones taking me seriously yet. That will change in time.

They'll have to ban me, mark those words.

--------------

you've been saying this for a while now, what 2 years?!....don't think we're getting any closer to taking you seriously thou...

vundarosa

Quote from: vundarosa on Oct 05, 03:07 PM 2012

--------------

you've been saying this for a while now, what 2 years?!....don't think we're getting any closer to taking you seriously thou...

vundarosa

Vundarosa it bothers me not. I wasn't doing this two years ago. What I am going to do over the next two years is show any interested how I take a modest sum of just 20 euro to thousands. By playing and growing at the right pace. I will increase in compound form at the rate of 5---10% per week. Or in every 7 played days. As I will have to break from time to time for holidays and other things.

I know human nature well. Once I have gone way beyond recall. And have increased the starting BR by 10 fold. Many will start to realize I know what I am doing. Its not luck. Its METHOD applied with discipline that few possess or everwill. STAYING POWER. that's another attribute few people engaged in this game possess enough of. And without it you can't succeed lonterm. I am tired of talking to be frank. And will step back from this forum. Only coming to update the methods I play and respond to genuinely interested and openminded people.

Superman and Still will keep you updated in due course. And as I have said I am now showing instead of talking. Therell come a time where even the most critical towards me. Will realize even if they can't admit it. I am for real. That's the last comment I will make on this insulting thread in my defense. The results do the talking from now on.

Sorry john...Ive been here 1 year and I am starting to hear a theme of rhetoric and in many ways an air of the esoteric from you. I certainly am not sitting in the wings waiting to gloat over your downfall. Quite the oposite. Im here to learn about all angles of roulette...and randomness..and you let me see the "astrology" side of roulette.

I just think you are losing your audience. And I think your audience is what keeps you going.

be careful.
Turner

Quote from: Johnlegend on Oct 05, 03:30 PM 2012
Superman and Still will keep you updated in due course. And as I have said I am now showing instead of talking. Therell come a time where even the most critical towards me. Will realize even if they can't admit it. I am for real. That's the last comment I will make on this insulting thread in my defense. The results do the talking from now on.

JL has a chart thats heading up.  I'm not sure why there is still so much doubt.  Maybe there is doubt about whether JL is explaining his method transparently.  But can anybody doubt a chart that's heading up?  Ok, it represents 50 hours, not including the chart from Bayes RNG that also headed straight up after a while.  50 hours and a bumpy start, so ok, the chart is not yet entirely convincing. 

@JohnLegend

I can only recommend to put in more hours up front on the BV account to quiet down the mumbling and grumbling.  But with a base unit of a penny, there may not be that much incentive to do so.  I understand why start with a penny. We want to stay under the radar and make a track record.  As you make money, we want to see if BV treats you differently.  With an initial BR of 2000 units, you are on track to double your money every 100 hours of play.  There's always a question of how many units are really necessary.  If you used a 1000 unit BR for example, you would double your money every 50 hours, and by now your base unit could be 2 cents. 

If Turner thinks you are losing your audience because the upward climb is not interesting enough, or whatever, i propose to sweeten the pot.   I would put in $100 if you would raise your base unit accordingly to about 6 cents, and compound it a penny for every $20 increase.    At that, i still think you can stay underneath BV's radar long enough to establish a track record.  I would ask the standard rate, 50% of earnings on my share, collectable whenever BV kicks you out, or whenever you stop compounding and want to maintain a max gain per week.  I would pay Superman 10% of profits coming out of the account and forwarded to me.   

~Still

I have come to the conclusion that John may actually be a winner.  There are winners in the world.

But he will NEVER reveal the true method he uses to win.  John is a tease in the worst sense. 

If he were on the level, he would make a screen shot movie and let the world see exactly what numbers came and where/when he placed his bets.  A man smart enough to develop such a winning system(s) is surely smart enough to use such simple software and with all the money he's made--cost is not an issue.

And that's the truth............ :girl_to: pffffffffttttttttttt

Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 12:25 AM 2012
I have come to the conclusion that John may actually be a winner.  There are winners in the world.

But he will NEVER reveal the true method he uses to win.  John is a tease in the worst sense. 

From what I have gleaned so far it's a simple equation ;)

John Legend = A plaster for every sore  :thumbsup:

O0

QuoteI would put in $100 if you would raise your base unit accordingly to about 6 cents, and compound it a penny for every $20 increase

Let's leave it as it is, the original challenge is to show from a small starting bank (20 euros) using patience and short sessions (hit n run) growing in bet size as the bank increases, so far it has but we must also remember the false 5 euro bet that took place in the early days. I could have left my 200 euros in the account to start with but JL or someone else suggested a 20 euro start so thats what it should be, let it grow.

I think people are more pi$$ed of with the fact that the graph is going up but they cant get their head around the method of 5, to be honest I havent even tried as theres so much doubt in it already, maybe he hasn't explained it properly, human nature is to get angry and name call in the hope that the person will try much harder to explain, JL spend less time on explaining and more on proving, as Still says, the more you play the quicker you can oncrease the chip size.

Quotewe want to see if BV treats you differently

I doubt that will happen, the only thing that could make that appear to happen is if JL plays differently, more at stake = more mistakes usually or more doubt, hesitation etc etc

Still

I'll make you a deal.  You open the account for 100 Euro.  I'll play according to John's rules with .06 bets just as you say.  I'll screen film each session and post the work sheet showing the numbers, the gaps and my bets with vocals to explain. 

If I win, you keep the money.  If I lose the 100 Euro, I will Pay Pal it to you on the first of Jan. 2013.

John will either see his method win or lose.  If I'm playing wrong, he'll have to say it up front and quickly!  He will be forced to say what is right and what is wrong.

You notice I spent hours working out the method and posted my work sheet and he would not even have the courtesy to say it was right or wrong?

Still, you have nothing to lose---and twice as much to win!

Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 05:46 AM 2012
Still

I'll make you a deal.  You open the account for 100 Euro.  I'll play according to John's rules with .06 bets just as you say.  I'll screen film each session and post the work sheet showing the numbers, the gaps and my bets with vocals to explain. 

If I win, you keep the money.  If I lose the 100 Euro, I will Pay Pal it to you on the first of Jan. 2013.

John will either see his method win or lose.  If I'm playing wrong, he'll have to say it up front and quickly!  He will be forced to say what is right and what is wrong.

You notice I spent hours working out the method and posted my work sheet and he would not even have the courtesy to say it was right or wrong?

Still, you have nothing to lose---and twice as much to win!

Sam

Somebodies bluff has just been called  :thumbsup:

O0

ddarko

I hope it wasn't a bluff.  I hope he takes me up on it.  I suspect he won't. What I don't understand is why no one wants to truly test the method? 

Sam

QuoteWhat I don't understand is why no one wants to truly test the method?

I would bot it in a test platform if I totally understood it BUT I don't have the patience at present to try to understand it, Sam, if you have worked it out then post the exact rules here in as few words as possible so it's crystal clear to everyone, if I have to scratch my head I lose interest instantly.

Quote from: Turner on Oct 05, 07:26 PM 2012
Sorry john...I've been here 1 year and I am starting to hear a theme of rhetoric and in many ways an air of the esoteric from you. I certainly am not sitting in the wings waiting to gloat over your downfall. Quite the oposite. I'm here to learn about all angles of roulette...and randomness..and you let me see the "astrology" side of roulette.

I just think you are losing your audience. And I think your audience is what keeps you going.

be careful.
Turner

How well said...bravo

Superman

I firmly believe you are one who truly wants to get to the truth.  Bear with me and read John's post with John's numbers:


" Okay I am going to give several real played game examples of what qualifies a game of FIVE. Since my poor explanation of tracking triggers has left more than a few members dazed and confused. I will do my best to finaly nail this important aspect of the method.Using the numbers recorded then a diagram of how they look.

EXAMPLE 1---And the most misunderstood possibility.

12/34/35/16/07/30/01/21/27/03/17/30/04/20/34/17/08/07/12/09---GAME OVER.
 
-----D1-----D2-----D3
-----04------04-----03----------BET TRIGGER DOZEN 2
-----02------03-----03
-----03------03-----03
-----03------02-----03----------GAME TRIGGER DOZEN 1
-----04------05-----05----------WIN BET 1 DOZEN 2 AS IT DID NOT BECOME A 4 GAP.
 
As you can see The BET TRIGGER was formed before the second part of the GAME TRIGGER. This often happens. But because we require a DOUBLE 4 GAP. To trigger a game. Both Dozen 1 and Dozen 2 remain contenders for the game trigger until one of them produces the second consecutive 4 GAP. There can be times when neither will become a GAME TRIGGER.
I have had incidences where all three dozens have formed a single 4 GAP. And NONE of them have gone on to form a second to make the game trigger. It happens. Because we have to wait on random with FIVE. It can't be rushed."


Me again.  I asked John for clarity and he gave it.  I then created this work sheet showing the numbers and the gaps.  He would/did not comment on it.  However, since his numbers fit perfectly, it must be right.  Take a look and let me know.


Sam

Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 06, 05:46 AM 2012
Still

I'll make you a deal.  You open the account for 100 Euro.  I'll play according to John's rules with .06 bets just as you say.  I'll screen film each session and post the work sheet showing the numbers, the gaps and my bets with vocals to explain. 

If I win, you keep the money.  If I lose the 100 Euro, I will Pay Pal it to you on the first of Jan. 2013.

John will either see his method win or lose.  If I'm playing wrong, he'll have to say it up front and quickly!  He will be forced to say what is right and what is wrong.

You notice I spent hours working out the method and posted my work sheet and he would not even have the courtesy to say it was right or wrong?

Still, you have nothing to lose---and twice as much to win!

Sam

I am still dealing with U.S. rules of non-freedom in this regard.  I have not figured out how to open an account in my name.  So to even consider this deal, there has to be a third party who will take 10% for handling. 

I'm like Superman, i would put it to a bot if i understood the rules.  I haven't invested that much in understanding the rules yet because i did not at first easily grasp the definition of a "4 gap" and let it go to see if anybody else would understand it.  Allegedly, Stephan understood the rules and made a spreadsheet.  Last i heard he felt a new understanding changed things quite a bit, but we have not seen an updated spreadsheet yet.  Meanwhile, i am working on implementing a bot based on Stephan's spreadsheet, if and when it's worked out. 

You're offer would serve to create a second track record to see if JL is conveying the method(s) he is actually using.  A bot does the same thing essentially. So i have choices to make.  I'm considering your offer but would like to see what JL says about my other offer first. 

Now------the question is:

After the win in my chart/John's numbers----Do you continue on with that trot of numbers or do you start over?  If you continue on,  is the second four gap in the game?  If you had lost instead of won on the 9, would you continue on?  Same question?

Can't you people see that John is posting only a small portion of the system?  Ask yourselves:  Why is that?  If he had a winning system AND he wanted people to play it, would he not post complete, concise and accurate rules?  Sure he would!

Folks, what the man wants in an audience.  He's like Elvis.  He always leaves the crowd wanting more.

What happens if there are no more questions to ask John?  He fades into background and people make money from his idea.  Someone will sell it on Ebay and claim they invented it.

I'm a bit of an egotist myself and I see his reasoning.

(You are, too!!)

Sam

Still

Fair enough.

Sam

Hi Sam,

JL wrote that after a win (or a loss??):

Quote
I start afresh as I play Hit and Run. I don't play more than 4 games in any session anyway.

A.

i thought i understood the rules..but now at a loss is jl telling the truth...i don't know...does jl only play 4 games or sessions or 4 wins? don't know but 4 games a day doesn't add up to over 1000 units profit that's over a years growth...4 sessions a day doesn't give you much time to log all imformation or know the limits....is jl,s balance going up ..yes...how?...y?....imformation....disimformation...who knows ...is stephkevs tracker wrong maybe...can you use the results  differentley ...definatley...can you combine it with one of jl,s other forgot about systems...absolutley...does jl use this other technique?....no idea...
am i perplexed...absolutley.....two steps forward and one step back....staggering towards a goal...
tease or not to tease ..playing for pennies?

The tracker makes the bets right, i only have to add a few more triggers,

because of the last triggers that john talked about.

Like the fact that the bet trigger can fall BEFORE, BETWEEN OR AFTER the double 4 gap.

I only knew the trigger , first a double 4 gap in a dozen and then a single as bet trigger.
Or in the same dozen with a 5/5+ between it.

Soon i will post the new tracker, i'm just busy with learning how to automate my spreadsheets so they act as bots.

And thats when i will test "five" to.

Stephan

stephkev your tracker what you did was fine on the imformation you got was spot on i didn,t mean no offence you to me are the most helpful programmer here...if i offended you I'm sorry...i like the tracker and use it for my own ends so i think its great...i don't underestimate your programming and you are quick to help...very quick..and if anyone has an idea they should ask you for your help... :thumbsup: .

Quote from: 6th-sense on Oct 06, 02:03 PM 2012
stephkev your tracker what you did was fine on the imformation you got was spot on i didn,t mean no offence you to me are the most helpful programmer here...if i offended you I'm sorry...i like the tracker and use it for my own ends so i think its great...i don't underestimate your programming and you are quick to help...very quick..and if anyone has an idea they should ask you for your help... :thumbsup: .

I'll second that!!

6S,

dont worry, i dont take it in an offensive way  :D

it just mean,

if the rules were explained good from the first time then the tracker would be okay from the first time   :D

And thanks for the trust in me :)

Sam,

what do you mean with "i'll second that !!" ?

Stephan

Stepkevh

I think you are very quick to help.  That's all.  I appreciate your efforts.

Sam