Does anyone know anything about the H.P Johnson guaranteed system?
I've tried to read up on it on the internet but can't really find much. I believe it is a similar system to the Midas (labby/cancellation variation) but the bits that I have found on it I couldn't really understand to make the maths work out.
Below is pretty much all i could find on it online but like i said, I don't really understand it. If someone else could understand properly and would write the rules/system more clearly on here it will be much appreciated. thanks
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"""""HP Johnson Guaranteed System
HP Johnson said this method can handle extreme adverse run even if it is 31 times in a row.
He guaranteed the system because he said the losses were not encountered.
He said the worse adverse run he had encountered was three days in a row before winning streaks overtake the losses.
Let’s explore HP JOHNSON Guaranteed System further:
HP JOHNSON used it successfully in international casinos throughout the world.
He started by explaining why players lose.
“Adverse run causes players to lose out of proportion to their modest win.â€
The above statement was mentioned by Chase. However, HP Johnson said the same thing.
HP Johnson guaranteed the system but he wants 10% of the profit of your winnings.
The strength of this system is that the system can withstand extreme adverse run like 31 times in a row, yet come out ahead.
Losses were not encountered. The worse he had encountered were losses three consecutive days in a row before winning streak come on the fourth day.
In my opinion, this method also falls within the category I classify as “Smart Chasing of Lossesâ€.
He uses a method called fixed string. You can start with any string of 14 numbers or even 50 numbers. However, HP Johnson invariably starts with this string of 14 numbers. He says this is more balanced.
This is the string he used.
5 5 5 5 5 5 45 45 45 45 45 45 45 45 45
There are five “5s†and nine “45sâ€
You take the first number and the last number.
If won you cancel off the first and last numbers.
Since there are only 14 numbers, seven wins will conclude your series with US$350 win, irrespective of the number of losses. I repeat
SEVEN WINS WILL CONCLUDE YOUR SERIES WITH US$350 WIN, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE NUMBER OF LOSSES.
You have to get this clear before you continue.
Each time you lose you distribute the numbers into the scale. The idea is to keep stakes low and take on extreme adverse run.
This is what happens after your first loss. The first column is your starting string. The second column is after you distribute the numbers into the scale.
5
5
5
5
5 10
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50
Then you bet 55 (first number and last number). The first number is 5 not 10. The last number is 50. Lost again. Your log is now like this.
5 10
5 10
5 10
5 10
5 10
45 50
45 50
45 50
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
Then you bet 65 (first number plus last number). Lost again. Your log is now like this.
5 10 15
5 10 15
5 10 15
5 10 15
5 10 15
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
Then you bet 75. (bet first plus last number). You lost. You add 5 into each number, meaning you distribute the scales to keep stake low.
5 10 15 20
5 10 15 20
5 10 15 20
5 10 15 20
5 10 15 20
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60
45 50 55 60 65
45 50 55 60 65
45 50 55 60 65
Your next stake is now 85. Remember bet first plus last number. You lost again.
5 10 15 20 25
5 10 15 20 25
5 10 15 20 25
5 10 15 20 25
5 10 15 20 25
45 50 55 60 65
45 50 55 60 65
45 50 55 60 65
45 50 55 60 65
45 50 55 60 65 70
45 50 55 60 65 70
45 50 55 60 65 70
45 50 55 60 65 70
45 50 55 60 65 70
Your next stake is now 95. You lost. Now you distribute the scale. Add 5 to each number starting from the bottom. Do it yourself. Continue to do this for the next few losses and see what happens.
Now what if you win. Each time you win you cancel off the first string and the last string.
You only need seven hits. You only need seven hits to close the series and you win US$350. This is irrespective of the number of losses you encounter.
Sounds great! So you break the bank. No, there is a catch.
The catch is how HP Johnson split the scale, rebalances the scale and creates virtual partnership play.
So, you continue to split and rebalance the scale until winning streaks overtake the losses.
This is how HP Johnson handles the catch.
When there are four strings left, he split the scale whenever the numbers exceed 80 (or 16 units)
For example, now you have
80
80
80
80
The scale will be split into
â€" 40
â€" 40
80 40
80 40
80 40
80 40
â€" 40
â€" 40
This is to keep stakes low in the event of adverse run
When there are two numbers left he split the scale whenever the number exceeds 150 or 30 units.
If you look at the table above, you will find that eight numbers with 40. So, HP Johnson rebalances the scale.
â€" 40 15
â€" 40 15
80 40 15
80 40 30
80 40 40
80 40 55
â€" 40 55
â€" 40 55
You should be able to handle these after some intensive practice. In fact, HP Johnson plays three pairs of partnership in all three even odds game in roulette.
I don't get it, :-[
But it seems the best labouchere variation EVER!
Can someone please explain this?
EDIT: found more explained version in pdf.
Le_Chiffre I think i got it! :D
Okay, the main idea is that the string always stays the same length!
Why? Lets say the string has a length of 6, after a loss you will redistribute the numbers so the length
of the string will remain the same, so that no matter what happens you just have to win 3 times.
example:
starting string:
111111
lost:
111122
lost again:
122222
lost again:
222233
But what if the numbers in the string become to high?
If a number in string is bigger then 16 units, split the number!
example:
string before:
16 16 16
string after:
8 8 8 8 8 8
I hope you get the main idea!
Cheers, Jordsie.
Hi Jordsie,
Thanks for replying. I'm glad someone has shown interest in this method as it does seem to be the best labby method (apart from the splitting thing that i don't understand).
I get your explanation using just a standard labby line, but how does it work with the HP johnson method as above? 5s and 45s and going up in units of 5 on a loss?
Thanks,
Le_Chiffre
I mailed the writer of that article, if you still have any questions
mail to the writer: soondr@gmail.com
I don't get what he did there too ???
Cheers, Jordsie.
I tried doing that too, a while ago and got no reply :(
I've also tried private messaging all the labby and progression experts i could find on this forum and others to see if they understood it and go no reply either.
I guess this method will remain a mystery even though to me it looks like it could be the method with the best potential.
IF THERE'S ANYONE OUT THERE THAT UNDERSTANDS THIS METHOD AND/OR HAS PLAYED IT, CAN YOU LET US KNOW WHAT TO DO AND IF IT'S ANY GOOD? Thanks lol
I don't understand what difference between this method and method called *Cancellation). Re-read it few times and still don't get why it should work. Need more explanations from smb....
Quote from: rusa71 on Dec 29, 09:48 AM 2012
I don't understand what difference between this method and method called *Cancellation). Re-read it few times and still don't get why it should work. Need more explanations from smb....
Because in this method you only need "X" amount of wins no matter what happens!!!
So at some point you will be close to martingale like this string:
24 24
So to avoid martingale risks you split the numbers as soon as they go 16+:
12 12 12 12
Le_Chiffre I understand it (i think) and tested it and it works like a charm!!!
But its hard to explain and that author is replying to me so why not to you?
Maybe I'll put up a full explanation/tutorial when I have some time...
You can see this method like a safe martingale, I'll give more explanation later on.
Cheers, Jordsie.
Jordsie, any chance of a private chat or something through here or MSN or something? Been trying to get to the bottom of this method for a while now?
I've done extensive Labby orientated botting to test different formations of the labby cancelation method, yes they work, BUT you need a good bet selection for them to work, reducing as you go is the idea, but at some point you will have to increase the labby size again if the losses are plentiful, and this is where it can go all wrong, trust me, it does go wrong eventually, either the bets get far too high or the length of the labby is just too big to get enough wins to empty it.
QuoteI've also tried private messaging all the labby and progression experts i could find on this forum and others to see if they understood it and go no reply either
Try searching the forum, you may find some good info.
What selection process are you wanting to use the labby with, you do know the bet selection comes first, then decide what sort of money management you are going to use, looks like you guys want the mm first, it wont work that way in my humble opinion anyway.
Quote from: Jordsie669 on Dec 29, 10:10 AM 2012
Because in this method you only need "X" amount of wins no matter what happens!!!
That I don't understand! Same in that file says that you need only 7 wins no matter how many losses. How it could be? I understand about splitting...If you have 24-24, you can split it to 12-12-12-12. But! Now you need 2 wins instead of 1...I've tryed before splitting when I used *Cancellation*. Result was the same...
Yes. this is mystery of the system that I've been trying to get to the bottom of in my many months of testing, searching, emailing the author, contacting people on here etc... no-one has helped out.....but from the sound of Jordsie may have cracked it......so it's all on Jordsie to reveal the answer.........
Quote from: rusa71 on Dec 29, 11:51 AM 2012
That I don't understand! Same in that file says that you need only 7 wins no matter how many losses. How it could be? I understand about splitting...If you have 24-24, you can split it to 12-12-12-12. But! Now you need 2 wins instead of 1...I've tryed before splitting when I used *Cancellation*. Result was the same...
It requires a bit logical thinking!
Let's say you have a string like this:
2 2 2 2 2 2 (It would require 3 Wins to end the series)
After a loss the string in normal labby becomes:
2 2 2 2 2 2 4 (This would NOW require 4 Wins to end the series)
But in HP Johnsons method we want that we only need the same amount of wins! So after a loss we distribute the numbers so that the string remains the same length!
2 2 3 3 3 3 (Using this method I still only need 3 wins instead of 4 after a loss!)
After a win the string becomes:
2 3 3 3 (Strings length is 4 so NOW we want it to stay length 4!) (1 Win out of 3)
After another loss the string becomes:
4 4 4 4 (Instead of 2 3 3 3 5)
After another win the string becomes:
4 4 (2 Wins of 3)
Another win:
FINISHED (ONLY 3 WINS NEEDED DESPITE 2 LOSSES)
Now what if we didn't win then our string would become:
8 8 (Kinda gettin' martingale now)
Another loss:
19 19 Will be split into 8 8 8 8 Because limit is 16 UNITS MAX! (I know that you then need one more win to conclude the series, but its safer else your just doing martingale!!!)
So I hope it's all clear now!
Cheers, Jordsie.
Quote from: Jordsie669 on Dec 29, 01:01 PM 2012
It requires a bit logical thinking!
Let's say you have a string like this:
2 2 2 2 2 2 (It would require 3 Wins to end the series)
After a loss the string in normal labby becomes:
2 2 2 2 2 2 4 (This would NOW require 4 Wins to end the series)
But in HP Johnsons method we want that we only need the same amount of wins! So after a loss we distribute the numbers so that the string remains the same length!
2 2 3 3 3 3 (Using this method I still only need 3 wins instead of 4 after a loss!)
After a win the string becomes:
2 3 3 3 (Strings length is 4 so NOW we want it to stay length 4!) (1 Win out of 3)
After another loss the string becomes:
4 4 4 4 (Instead of 2 3 3 3 5)
After another win the string becomes:
4 4 (2 Wins of 3)
Another win:
FINISHED (ONLY 3 WINS NEEDED DESPITE 2 LOSSES)
Now what if we didn't win then our string would become:
8 8 (Kinda gettin' martingale now)
Another loss:
19 19 Will be split into 8 8 8 8 Because limit is 16 UNITS MAX! (I know that you then need one more win to conclude the series, but its safer else your just doing martingale!!!)
So I hope it's all clear now!
Cheers, Jordsie.
Great explanation! Thanks Jordsie669...Now I got this.
Quote from: rusa71 on Dec 29, 01:16 PM 2012
Great explanation! Thanks Jordsie669...Now I got this.
Good to hear that ;D!!!
Can someone code this into RX please?
I think this can work in the long run!
I accidently posted twice how do I remove this post?
Jordsie, thanks for the explanation. I kind of got it from what you said earlier. What I want to know is, the method from the pdf/what i originally posted. How does that relate to this? i.e the table consisting of 5s and 45s, then going up in 5s after a loss etc?...
thanks
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Dec 29, 01:42 PM 2012
Jordsie, thanks for the explanation. I kind of got it from what you said earlier. What I want to know is, the method from the pdf/what i originally posted. How does that relate to this? i.e the table consisting of 5s and 45s, then going up in 5s after a loss etc?...
thanks
Well the 5's and 45's were just his starting string and I mailed the author for explanation, because his post was really bad explained.
And what he said comes pretty much to what I posted, and it also does what it says (Only X amount of wins needed despite the many losses)
So I think that this is the real HP Johnson method.
Cheers, Jordsie.
Now we only need someone to test this (code in RX perhaps?)
to find out if this is a winner in the long run!
Cheers, Jordsie.
ok, thanks Jordsie. I still don't quite understand why the original method had 5s and 45s....and not equal number of them. but thanks for getting this explanation out of the author.
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Dec 29, 01:52 PM 2012
ok, thanks Jordsie. I still don't quite understand why the original method had 5s and 45s....and not equal number of them. but thanks for getting this explanation out of the author.
Because you can choose your starting string.
ok, so ive tested this a bit on demo and it can still get out of hand easily.
are you just splitting the numbers +16 only on the last bet (last 2 numbers) or any numbers in the string that get to +16?
If any of your numbers goes 16+ Then split them like:
String a.t.m:
9 9
String after loss:
9 9 9 9 (instead of 18 18 because it's 16+)
QuoteCan someone code this into RX please?
I still see no bet selection? do you really think just having a money management is enough? the labby will not work UNLESS you have a solid selection to bet on, good luck.
I have studied this mm.
In the beginning X wins is needed. But if (or better to say WHEN) the numbers become too high You have to split these numbers. So then You can have situation that instead X wins, Y wins is needed, and Y > X.
After a bad losing streak this will go out of hands. It is up to bet selection, although that will hapen sooner or later, but that will happen, for sure.
Okay, I was playing for real money and I had a bad run but I tweaked the method to rescue myself!
I'll explain now, first let me explain my problem:
string after many losses:
16 16 16 16
string after another loss:
16 16 16 16 16 16
So now get the problem? In the method we needed 1 win to recover 2 losses! But now we need 2 wins to recover 2 losses!
So how fix it? Make the amounts smaller!
string tweaked:
16 16 16 16> 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
So what what changed now? Well after another loss with the tweaked string, the string will become:
string after another loss (tweaked string):
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 (instead of 16 16 16 16 16 16)
So now again we only need 1 win to recover of 2 losses!
But obviously you don't want large strings so what you do in the future is:
When you have to split according to the regular system, you do the following:
SPLIT TWICE!!
So now when you have for example:
string:
16 16 (Hit 16+ unit limit)
make the string like this:
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
(OR YOU CAN DO STRING 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 INSTEAD, DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BEST YET!)
THIS WILL KEEP YOU IN THE 1 WIN NEEDED TO RECOVER FROM 2 LOSSES!!
Sorry for the many CAPS it was to help make it clear,
Cheers, Jordsie.
If anyone else has ideas to tweak this method,
Feel free!! Anything could improve the system!
Cheers, Jordsie.
By the way, the problem that you have to split twice only happens when all the numbers in the string
are the half of the limit, example:
8 8
8 8 8 8
But after you splitted twice (in that scenario only!!!), it will take a lot of loses before you have to split again!!
Unless the string became only 2 numbers again! (Can only happen after wins)
So now the odds are reversed!! (Unless you're VERY UNLUCKY)
This will give you a huge advantage!
Cheers, Jordsie.
the method started off only needing 3 wins but with the +16 rule the method can end up just like any other labby method needing potentially LOTS AND LOTS of wins if it gets out of hand.
Correction: you always only need 1 win to revover from 2 losses,
This gives you an advantage! And the double split is only in emergencies!!!
Cheers, Jordsie.
This boils down to labby or marty... or both...
ok, so ive been trying this for a few days and it does work a lot better than standard labbys....but of course, it gets out of hand eventually just the same. I'm going to try this with Binary Options to see if it works better there....as standard labbys have always served me well with BOs (even though they're not 100% even chance).
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Jan 02, 08:56 AM 2013
ok, so I've been trying this for a few days and it does work a lot better than standard labbys....but of course, it gets out of hand eventually just the same. I'm going to try this with Binary Options to see if it works better there....as standard labbys have always served me well with BOs (even though they're not 100% even chance).
Binary options? That sounds interesting, what's that?
Quote from: Jordsie669 on Jan 02, 11:42 AM 2013
Binary options? That sounds interesting, what's that?
It's betting on which way a financial market will go, usually in the next 5 minutes, 20 minutes, hour or day. There's lots of strategies to predict the way in which it will go so potentially it's slightly easier to try and bet with method rather than just random (like roulette) but obviously it's not always as easy as that as it doesn't always go that way you think.
plus the odds aren't Even chance, but they're close (depending on which bookie or broker you use) but it means the bigger the labby string gets the more it'll eat out of your profits when you eventually clear it.....you may even end up less then when you started the string....but this method may reduce that problem. Think of it like betting on Banker in Bacarratt using a labby....the commission will eat into the profits.
Im looking into Binary options, in the end its the same as gambling... only more legal... (or more acceptable..)
The issue is that you never get 100% return, so you need 2 wins to recover minimum 1 loss.
So using progression can be killing.
I have played on options lasting 1hr, but looks like very short once are easier.
I guess combining alot of strategies from gambling can work into options trading, but i think there are more factors into play ...
And as with roulette, you make paper bets, you strategy looks to work.. until you play for real... then it looks to be an rigged RNG ;)
Yes binary options is gambling just as much as the casino. I trade the markets for a living....but not binary options, proper futures via a proper futures broker....this too is similar to gambling but not. I turn to gambling like roulette or binary options as a bit of a side line or sometimes to quickly make up an occasional loss on the markets that I'm not prepared to accept lightly (hence my name Le_Chiffre from Casino Royale who played the markets then turned to the casino to make up the massive loss).
So if you're seriously wanting to get into the markets then i'd say look into proper trading, not binary options.
Anyway, as for binaries, the only difference from casino gambling is if you get a good scalping strategy it can help to predict the outcome more than just random or 'roulette voodoo'. Obviously it's still risky and still boils down to mostly luck at the end of the day. I would say doing 1hr options is too slow, that's why if you're going to use a gambling method in binary options then to use 5m binaries as its quicker to finish your propgression. 1hrs could take hours or days.
If you're not going to use a progression and just flat bet or compound your account, then like i said don't do binaries, do proper trading as the PROS of binaries is it's more or less a fixed bet and your losses can't keep on increasing like in actual trading....but the CONS are the oposite of what i just said, if you get in the right side of a move, then you'll only win a certain amount even though the market could rally and you'll miss out on making a fortune like you would if you were proper trading.
I know its not the best trader now, but then it looked ok, it a shame they only offer 1 hr trades.
Do you use BDC? or other broker?
Do you use any tracker/predictor software?
for binary's I use many different companies because if you're successful at it at just one they'll close your account down. I mainly use IG or ladbrokes or William Hill but i've tried them all. (im based in the UK btw). I usually do Gold, FTSE, Nikkei and GBP/USD.
For futures trading I use Berkeley Futures and Prospreads and just do Nikkei futures, Wheat futures and sometimes FTSE futures.
I use Metatrader 4 (MT4) for most of my trading and look for breaks or retraces of support and resistance levels.