Guys
My hat is off to all three of you, especially Stef. I am the one who pushed to test the various 9 v 9 ideas and I feel directly responsible for causing each one of you misery.
trebor and soggett--you understood it when I could not and you both explained it to me.
Stef
I encouraged you to write the tracker back after you wrote the first one. You see, I truly believed in FlAtMaN and I though we were all doing something worthwhile. Your tracker is spot on according to my video which soggett approved after FlAtMaN told him "you got it". soggett and trebor were right; the video was right; your tracker is beautiful--it's just that we were sold a basket of rotten apples.
We live and learn.
Sam
QuoteI truly believed in FlAtMaN
Ouch, since his promised consistent winning method that kept changing when losses were hit I gave up on his methods. How do you call it Sam, bloviating.
Samster,
Nothing to feel sorry about.
I have fun in making trackers, it keeps my mind sharp ;D
Superman
Here is the problem I have. You know--I know--we all know that if this were being played at a real casino the mistakes would eat the bankroll. How did he make all this money every day--even called the casino his bank--if this system loses so badly?
It is not me; it is not the tracker. But on the outside chance I could have made a mistake (hak kaf), I will make a movie showing just how I put the numbers in the tracker. If anyone sees a mistake, please call me on it.
Sam
No wonder Flat went missing - he'd never own up to having a basket of rotten apples though, not very humble like your good self Sam
QuoteHow did he make all this money every day--even called the casino his bank
And you've seen his bank statements? anyone can tell us/you they win everyday but just because they say they do doesn't mean we must believe them, gamblers are a funny breed of humans, the bottom line is its all down to chance/luck, we know from years of playing/testing the next result has nothing to do with the last one, sure there are events we can work on but the bottom line is still the same percentage as it was before.
JL and 2 others are supposedly creaming it from the casinos, nobody really knows if they actually are except for themselves, take everything with a pinch of salt Sam, read it, test it and decide for yourself, one things for sure on these forums, everyone runs with anything as they truely believe the posters words, maybe not desperate but easily blagged until they've been around a few years.
I was just like that in the early days, coded/botted every single method mentioned changed them, tried everything but they all have the same results, they work well at some points and don't at other points.
Gentlemen
I thank you--one and all. Here is a video. If anyone can show me where I made a mistake, I will listen. soggett can attest to that!!
Sam
Tracker Instruction Video (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=wI3lCbGM61A#)
7.45 min
''If you torture figures, they will tell you anything!''
Sam! You are brilliant. :xd:
I gotta say if anybody deserves to find something that does work, then it is definately you mate.
It's not the end of the world and at least you didn't lose any real money with this stuff.
Thank you for all your hard work and that goes for stef, soggett and trebor as well.
These forums need more guys like you instead of the circus that is in town at the moment. :thumbsup:
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 29, 10:24 AM 2012
Guys
My hat is off to all three of you, especially Stef. I am the one who pushed to test the various 9 v 9 ideas and I feel directly responsible for causing each one of you misery.
trebor and soggett--you understood it when I could not and you both explained it to me.
Stef
I encouraged you to write the tracker back after you wrote the first one. You see, I truly believed in FlAtMaN and I though we were all doing something worthwhile. Your tracker is spot on according to my video which soggett approved after FlAtMaN told him "you got it". soggett and trebor were right; the video was right; your tracker is beautiful--it's just that we were sold a basket of rotten apples.
We live and learn.
Sam
Poor old Sam......you incredible.there are all 48 sessions openly posted with good fate and intentions.You are making much ado about nothing,circus,and I know now why you are doing it.but really don't care any longer,as I see where are bullets coming from and why.
You and your comrades can only dream casinos and part of the world where I played....if you
enlarge my avatar you may notice it is casino Venice in Macao......what a bunch of frustruated freaks.
Thanks, bob!
I think we all know the truth.
I'm off to see "Lincoln".
sam
Not a problem Sam.
I think you're to be praised for the effort you put in on this. It's a shame if it turned out to have been all to no avail.
Trebor.
FlAtMaN,
Not sure whether I'm included in your tirade but I'm definitely not frustrated.
Trebor
FlAtMaN,
Not sure whether I'm included in your tirade but I'm definitely not frustrated.
Trebor
How did I do that!!!
LOL, is there an echo in here Trebor?
I think I am in his threesome, whateveerrrrr ::)
Quote from: trebor on Nov 29, 02:03 PM 2012
Not a problem Sam.
I think you're to be praised for the effort you put in on this. It's a shame if it turned out to have been all to no avail.
Trebor.
EFFORT??????.....You are out of the REAL topic and don't grasp Old Cowboy Sam
real intenions in all this circus.There will be more don't worry/but without me/as nor do you
grasp the reasons...but I do.Why should I be cross with anybody...not even with Sam as how can one be cross with ppl.that.....better shut up.....Have sent him some nice photos from Monte Carlo
and Macao where I played......sure he enjoy it.
Is anyone was left in the whole world who still believe this FlAtMaN/Vile/Flatino ... ?
Quote from: speed on Nov 29, 02:56 PM 2012
Is anyone was left in the whole world who still believe this FlAtMaN/Vile/F_LAT_INO ... ?
I'm glad you do......how much dough did you lose with my lies.....must be a lot overthere where you live where casinos don't exists.Know many like you are here,that only pop up now and again to fire theirs empty words......and that don't know how casinos look like.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 29, 10:24 AM 2012
Guys
My hat is off to all three of you, especially Stef. I am the one who pushed to test the various 9 v 9 ideas and I feel directly responsible for causing each one of you misery.
trebor and soggett--you understood it when I could not and you both explained it to me.
Stef
I encouraged you to write the tracker back after you wrote the first one. You see, I truly believed in FlAtMaN and I though we were all doing something worthwhile. Your tracker is spot on according to my video which soggett approved after FlAtMaN told him "you got it". soggett and trebor were right; the video was right; your tracker is beautiful--it's just that we were sold a basket of rotten apples.
We live and learn.
Sam
You dont have to apologise to me for anything Sam, we are good :)
Watched the video, you did everything right
Wasn't much on the forum the last couple of days so I am out of the loop to whats going on
I see the tracker does the progression right too?
got to download the new version I suppose
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 29, 03:13 PM 2012
how much dough did you lose with my lies.....
0.00 euro
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 29, 03:13 PM 2012
and that don+t know how casinos look like
I once saw casino in the movie :yawn:
Here and see some more movies....gentleman you are talking too at casino trips all over the globe.
Oh may forgot Monte Carlo
Quotewe were sold a basket of rotten apples.
Well JL has spread nonsense and lied about his systems
more than anyone else on the roulette forums, and even creates fake accounts to support his lies and lead people on. He has been doing this for YEARS.
.... and when I banned him yet again, some members think I'm the bad guy. And these people still believe and follow JL. Does anyone else find this amazing?
You should be appreciating proper moderation, instead of having a runaway forum that is more active, but loaded with BS from a sick person.
As admin I need to allow free speech, but the limit is allowing a sick person to constantly lie and deliberately mislead people. Perhaps some of you don't remember or know what fender has been doing for the past few years... I see again his latest system is being revealed for what it is on the other forum. Soon its time to change accounts again.
I don't know anything about flatman's systems so I'm not in position to judge, but JL is a different story.
To the people that still follow JL, you are going to learn banning him was the right thing to do, but not before you waste loads of time feeding his addiction to attention.
ps - flatman, doing some travel and having photos is not proof of anything. People should base opinions solely on testing, don't you agree?
I'm curious, what do people think the better option is:
1. Allowing free and open discussion, because like we're all gentlemen. We'll tolerate fake usernames and blatant lies, deception... and we'll be all nice about it, because you know it makes an active forum.
or
2. Allowing free and open discussion with moderation to prevent fake accounts and blatant deception.
I wonder...
Agreed mr.Steve,but not completely.
But don't agree that some freak minds are turning around methods I post,inventing new rules that
are not matching mine,then creating theatre and much ado about matter...furtermore I never ever
mentioned any hg nor did I tray to sell anything/even thought there were guys that offered me that,which I refused/----and how can one agree when this Speed indirectly call me a layer,and all
these poison arrows spread towards me as if I SCAM somebody and now they ask theirs money back.
I only post my original ideas as a basic bet,give em some food for thought....but it is not my fault if they don't grasp what am I about,as most are just amateurs.That's all.
Is this picture old once? It looks very much a guy I meet on Krk about 30 years ago, The lady looks familiar too.
flatman, unfortunately I know nothing about your systems. I also am not aware of what claims you had main pertaining to your systems. so I'm not in position to judge
I'll just say I'm all for sharing and discussing, but everyone needs to be open and honest to others and themselves about their systems etc. But in saying that, of course people like JL etc will keep doing what they do. Such people will always exist. The real problem is people allowing themselves to be deceived.
people also need to understand +70 units in a year is NOTHING... N O T H I N G.
It is fact, not opinion, that any method needs proper testing before you can say it wins.
I recall one gambler who lost a fortune over 2 years. Then in just 2 months he made a small part of it back and was banned. Many people thought his system worked. Even media, and it was a great story. But people focused on the 2 months rather than the 2 years. And many people rushed to buy his book, but only found his system was a strong BS progression that lost, and that the player only had a winning streak over 2 months. And a losing streak over 2 years. SO EVERYONE NEEDS TO PUT THINGS INTO PERSPECTIVE AND UNDERSTAND A GENUINE LONG TERM WINNING SYSTEM MEANS IT WINS IN THE LONG TERM. ANY SYSTEM, EVEN BETTING ONLY BLACK, CAN WIN OVER 10,000 OR MORE SPINS. IT doesn't MEAN YOU CAN MAKE A LIVING FROM IT. THERE ARE ALWAYS WINNERS AND LOSERS. AND OVERALL, THE CASINO TAKES A BIT MORE THAN WHAT THEY PAY BACK. that's THE HOUSE EDGE.
flatman it is not directed at you - it is for everyone. again I know nothing about your systems
Hey flatman,
Whether your system works or not, played your way or not, I will say thank you for sharing your hard work and knowledge with the forum.
The thing to remember when posting systems on public forums is that once they are shared they become public property, and the public can and will do what they want with it.
Inevitably the Improvement Squad will change rules, add progressions, invent variations, etc. Don’t be offended or disappointed by this because it’s all part of the creative process we all need to go through to satisfy our interest in roulette.
Just be content to post your system and let people fix it or mess it up as they see fit.
Cheers to all.
Steve, I suppose you know that Flatman is Flatino and Vile and probably have some more names here.
He is for most of his systems claimed that they are constant winners, and later when people see the opposite and say to him, he called them like in this case bunch of frustruated freaks. JL had never used this language.
If by some rules JL deserved ban, then Flatino can not be an isolated case, in other words if is rules to not ban Flatino then is same for JL.
And his systems are nothing better than JL systems, both cant survive first 15000 bet spins even is deviation (luck) in favor of the system.
Quote from: speed on Nov 29, 06:04 PM 2012
Steve, I suppose you know that Flatman is F_LAT_INO and Vile and probably have some more names here.
He is for most of his systems claimed that they are constant winners, and later when people see the opposite and say to him, he called them like in this case bunch of frustruated freaks. JL had never used this language.
If by some rules JL deserved ban, then F_LAT_INO can not be an isolated case, in other words if is rules to not ban F_LAT_INO then is same for JL.
And his systems are nothing better than JL systems, both can't survive first 15000 bet spins even is deviation (luck) in favor of the system.
Well it was an improvement on threatening to have people shot. Which still sits on this forum for all to read.
Turner
Quote from: Turner on Nov 29, 06:34 PM 2012
Well it was an improvement on threatening to have people shot.
Turner
Still there for all to read by the way Steve....reply#11
You mean this>>>
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 19, 05:24 PM 2012
--Bravo......hope you get my years...with your insulting behaviour you surely won't.
--In my country they shoot people.like you........and if you told me this in my face you would
be gone you jerk.
:o
You know, I actually invented a gun for roulette player's. :thumbsup:
[reveal] (link:://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/skakus/russian_20roulette_20pistol.jpg) [/reveal]
Quote from: Skakus on Nov 29, 06:53 PM 2012
You know, I actually invented a gun for roulette player's. :thumbsup:
(link:://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/skakus/russian_20roulette_20pistol.jpg)
Class!
Ha!
You just poo pooed my reveal! ;D
.. not all roulette players do the same thing.
And yes that type of talk from flatman is not acceptable. It appears removed now, I couldnt find it. Flatman you know better than that.
I didnt know you were vile too flatman. I recall recently you had account login problems. What probably happened was your ip was banned from a different username, and this locked out your other accounts.
Keep in mind multiple accounts are not permitted as it just leads to trouble. So please only use the one account from now.
Quote from: Skakus on Nov 29, 06:56 PM 2012
Ha!
You just poo pooed my reveal! ;D
Sorry....your idea of me and you as a double act was shi.t
Quote from: Steve on Nov 29, 06:57 PM 2012
I didn't know you were vile too flatman.
He wasn't, your just taking somebodies word for it instead of finding out for yourself :embarrassed:
O0
QuoteHe wasn't, your just taking somebodies word for it instead of finding out for yourself
Believe me I know better and checked myself. The claim is correct.
Quote from: Steve on Nov 29, 09:39 PM 2012
Believe me I know better and checked myself. The claim is correct.
I don't believe you Steve, I will wait for the actual guy (Flatman) to confirm or deny :thumbsup:
If I'm wrong I will happily apologise to you via this public forum 8)
O0
same with JL and how I explained about his fake accounts, why would I lie???
Some may argue I banned him because he made claims about roulette contrary to mine, like he must have been "bad for business"... But look around. Things are being said contrary to my claims everywhere and I don't care.
Anyway, flatman can confirm.. or deny.. himself. If he denies I'll show you what I see.
Quote from: Steve on Nov 29, 11:51 PM 2012
same with JL and how I explained about his fake accounts, why would I lie???
Some may argue I banned him because he made claims about roulette contrary to mine, like he must have been "bad for business"... But look around. Things are being said contrary to my claims everywhere and I don't care.
Anyway, flatman can confirm.. or deny.. himself. If he denies I'll show you what I see.
I never said your lied, I just don't think you are correct. I remember vile from your other forum & his way of typing/speaking etc etc was nothing like Flatman's (iboba)
I agree with what you did with JL or John Gold as I think he maybe :thumbsup: & yes your probably pi$$ed with peoples reaction to you banning him. I'm allowed not to agree with you, & as stated before I will apologise if I'm wrong, I cannot be any fairer than that.
O0
Quote from: Turner on Nov 29, 07:08 PM 2012
Sorry....your idea of me and you as a double act was shi.t
Hmmm, thanks for the heads up Turner. The last shi.t idea I had was 21 years ago; we're still married and I'm still suffering, so no more shi.tty double act ideas from me! You're on your own now dude.
:twisted:
Oooo, better hope Mrs Skakus never logs in or you're in big trouble! ;)
Roughy
Trouble.
Funny, that's her middle name! hehehehe!
Quote from: ddarko on Nov 29, 09:49 PM 2012
I don't believe you Steve, I will wait for the actual guy (Flatman) to confirm or deny :thumbsup:
If I'm wrong I will happily apologise to you via this public forum 8)
O0
Yes it is true I had 3 names,but with certain reasons.As a often travel on my roulette and tex.hold.
trips,I turn off all eletricity in my home.Comeback and FLATINO disapeared from the forum,couldn't log in and opened a new account as Vile,after while I succeed to log on as FLATINO/since then never used Vile again/then went to trip to Wien recently and same thing happened again.....Flatino
disapeared from the forum and finally I opened the other day a account as Flatman......and by the
way I did informed members that Vile and Flatino are same person.
Quote from: Steve on Nov 29, 05:30 PM 2012
flatman, unfortunately I know nothing about your systems. I also am not aware of what claims you had main pertaining to your systems. so I'm not in position to judge
All this discussion started motivated by;WE WERE SOLD A BASKET OF ROTTEN APPLES.......posted by BLOVIATOR TCS aka SAM/am only using his own expression/who was testing my 48 full sessions of Wiesbaden/as he probably thought that I might have fabricated numbers,as he simply couldn't believe that it could be true...and when he discovered the true,that all is correct and winning sessions/except 2,wich didn't lost required BR/then finally he produced yesterday session with 250 spins and victoriously posted as a losing session......but the rules of the method strictly say;only sessionss with 300 or more spins.......and after that comes;
WE WERE SOLD BASKET OF ROTTEN APPLES
I'll just say I'm all for sharing and discussing, but everyone needs to be open and honest to others and themselves about their systems etc. But in saying that, of course people like JL etc will keep doing what they do. Such people will always exist. The real problem is people allowing themselves to be deceived.
I'm not deceiving anybody.
people also need to understand +70 units in a year is NOTHING... N O T H I N G.
It is not 72 units a year but 72 units/mostly more/per a playing session.
It is fact, not opinion, that any method needs proper testing before you can say it wins.
I recall one gambler who lost a fortune over 2 years. Then in just 2 months he made a small part of it back and was banned. Many people thought his system worked. Even media, and it was a great story. But people focused on the 2 months rather than the 2 years. And many people rushed to buy his book, but only found his system was a strong BS progression that lost, and that the player only had a winning streak over 2 months. And a losing streak over 2 years. SO EVERYONE NEEDS TO PUT THINGS INTO PERSPECTIVE AND UNDERSTAND A GENUINE LONG TERM WINNING SYSTEM MEANS IT WINS IN THE LONG TERM. ANY SYSTEM, EVEN BETTING ONLY BLACK, CAN WIN OVER 10,000 OR MORE SPINS. IT doesn't MEAN YOU CAN MAKE A LIVING FROM IT. THERE ARE ALWAYS WINNERS AND LOSERS. AND OVERALL, THE CASINO TAKES A BIT MORE THAN WHAT THEY PAY BACK. that's THE HOUSE EDGE.
And that is exactly how I explain things in my methods,nor will you find anywhere in my methods that I would be call it Horible Guy.
flatman it is not directed at you - it is for everyone. again I know nothing about your systems
Quote from: speed on Nov 29, 06:04 PM 2012
Steve, I suppose you know that Flatman is F_LAT_INO and Vile and probably have some more names here.
He is for most of his systems claimed that they are constant winners, and later when people see the opposite and say to him, he called them like in this case bunch of frustruated freaks. JL had never used this language.
If by some rules JL deserved ban, then F_LAT_INO can not be an isolated case, in other words if is rules to not ban F_LAT_INO then is same for JL.
And his systems are nothing better than JL systems, both can't survive first 15000 bet spins even is deviation (luck) in favor of the system.
And now to introduce you with a truth about constant negative and dectracting posts in my threads only,from this SPEED creature......He is Serb and me a Croat.....and even after 18 years a war is finished...we just don't love each others even today.To prove your claims that my methods don't work you should show us it with some workspreadsheets but not with speach...start doing some proofs for your claims.
"It is not 72 units a year but 72 units/mostly more/per a playing session"
With a S/L of 1400 units plus. Nice system. Why 1400? why not 14000 or 140000. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Turner on Nov 29, 06:37 PM 2012
Still there for all to read by the way Steve....reply#11
And why didn't you mention Buffalos prior post addressed to me which which maded me react so...I thought you Brit.were fair players......you surely aren't one of those.
Quote from: furple on Nov 30, 07:00 AM 2012
"It is not 72 units a year but 72 units/mostly more/per a playing session"
With a S/L of 1400 units plus. Nice system. Why 1400? why not 14000 or 140000. :thumbsup:
CousE 72 is 5% of 1440....and that is a win target 5%.....
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 30, 07:03 AM 2012
And why didn't you mention Buffalos prior post addressed to me which which maded me react so...I thought you Brit.were fair players......you surely aren't one of those.
At least he doesn't threaten to shoot people. ::)
QuoteI remember vile from your other forum & his way of typing/speaking etc etc was nothing like Flatman's (iboba)
Quoteafter while I succeed to log on as F_LAT_INO/since then never used Vile again
Quoteas stated before I will apologise if I'm wrong
LOL, go on then mate, Steve can take it ddarko
Quote from: furple on Nov 30, 07:08 AM 2012
At least he doesn't threaten to shoot people. ::)
O man....I shoot many who have tried to occupied my home...that was the war time
in this part of the world,but I never insulted,detract,abuse ppl.openly with no reson whatsoever...and that is worst then shooting someone,as he shoot at me verbaly...but you wouldn't understand
this, as here under meditarrenian sun wee keep our traditions and don't allow anybody to hurt
our pride.O yes and ppl.are getting shoot for violating such rules.....so if you ever come in this
part of the world just be careful what to say....you see now you learned something that may help you in future life.
Quote from: Skakus on Nov 29, 05:41 PM 2012
Hey flatman,
Whether your system works or not, played your way or not, I will say thank you for sharing your hard work and knowledge with the forum.
The thing to remember when posting systems on public forums is that once they are shared they become public property, and the public can and will do what they want with it.
Inevitably the Improvement Squad will change rules, add progressions, invent variations, etc. Don’t be offended or disappointed by this because it’s all part of the creative process we all need to go through to satisfy our interest in roulette.
THE FACT IS THAT I ALWAYS BEEN PUSHING PPL.TO DO THAT,EXPECTING IMPROVEMENTS FROM OTHES/REMEMBER PCWB...I ONLY COME WITH BASIC IDEA.
Just be content to post your system and let people fix it or mess it up as they see fit.--LET EM DO SO...BUT NOT IN THE POSTED THREAD WITH STRICT RULES AND THAT IS WHY BLOVIATOR SAM OPENED 2 OWN THREADS ON THE TOPIC LvF 9 AS KNEW THAT I WOULD DELETED IT AS IT DOESN'T FIT THE RULES OF THE BET.
Cheers to all.
Flatman, if I shot people for trying to hurt my pride, i would need a rather large crematory. My point is don't be so trigger happy. Unless we'd re talking call of duty on ps3 in which case knife repeatedly.
Skakus has explained the other acceptable stabbing circumstance. Marriage.
Also flatman, are you iboba too?.. Simple question :)
Quote from: Steve on Nov 30, 08:45 AM 2012
Also flatman, are you iboba too?.. Simple question :)
Think so!!
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 30, 07:03 AM 2012
And why didn't you mention Buffalos prior post addressed to me which which maded me react so...I thought you Brit.were fair players......you surely aren't one of those.
You missed my point yet again. I got a public bollocking for some posting I did and you threatend to shoot someone and nothing was said. That was my point.
And as for BuffaloWizzard: Grumpy old Git is used purposly to soften the phrase. its not an insult at all. its a bit of fun.
also, its true. You dont take criticism well. Everyone else must be wrong.
So forgive me if I am completly wrong, but that doesnt warrant having someone shot. Well not in
fair players Britain anyhow.
Turner
Somebody said that flatino was casinopitbull too, it would be interesting to check that.
Turner
Sorry, ol' bean. I, or someone else, should have forward that threat to Steve. We all dropped the ball.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 30, 01:49 PM 2012
Turner
Sorry, ol' bean. I, or someone else, should have forward that threat to Steve. We all dropped the ball.
Sam
And how would you react now if I call you;you senile old alcoholic pissing in your pants,talking
with your mirror each morning.....maybe you do who knows.
And now do me a favour Stive and free me from these idiots.
As you said lot of sick ppl around,and man here especially...what a roulette
illiterate yerks...not all but most....see you in Monte Carlo.
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 30, 03:01 PM 2012
And how would you react now if I call you;you senile old alcoholic pissing in your pants,talking
with your mirror each morning.....maybe you do who knows.
I find that thoroughly amusing - im sure Sam does too - its all quite preposterous really... Anyway I'm off to fill that man at the shop full of lead for raising his eyebrow at me. Happy days!
Quote from: FlAtMaN on Nov 30, 03:01 PM 2012
And how would you react now if I call you;you senile old alcoholic pissing in your pants,talking
with your mirror each morning.....maybe you do who knows.
(Now F_LAT_INO, here is your chance to have a stab (no pun intended) at understanding british humour)
why is the following funny?
And how would you react now if I call you;you senile old alcoholic pissing in your pants,talking
with your mirror each morning.....maybe you do who knows.haa..haa...see you know nothing....i don't have any mirrors in my house
Sam, which are you going to address first....your Alchoholism, your incontinence or your Narcissistic personality disorder?
Turner
I'm just amazed he has pants, never sounded like it in his videos ;-)
R.
Quote from: Roughy on Nov 30, 04:02 PM 2012
I'm just amazed he has pants, never sounded like it in his videos ;-)
R.
Hey, us Rednecks wears pants!
Turner
I guess I'll lay off the rum and coke first. I'm only incontinent when playing His system!
Sm
Quote from: Turner on Nov 30, 03:51 PM 2012
(Now F_LAT_INO, here is your chance to have a stab (no pun intended) at understanding british humour)
why is the following funny?
And how would you react now if I call you;you senile old alcoholic pissing in your pants,talking
with your mirror each morning.....maybe you do who knows.
haa..haa...see you know nothing....i don't have any mirrors in my house
and that was addressed to Sam.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Nov 30, 04:19 PM 2012
Hey, us Rednecks wears pants!
Turner
I guess I'll lay off the rum and coke first. I'm only incontinent when playing His system!
Sm
Sam, fishnet tights technically arnt pants
Hey, get your arse over there and read my 100 unit offer! That's 100 pounds sterling to you!
Fishnet!!
Ain't no Redneck gonna wear no fishnet, but
If you'd wear a T-shirt saying, "I could have got in the Guinness Book, but my Old Lady flushed it"..............you might be a Redneck!
Sam
FlAtMaN , F_LAT_INO , vile , iboba , casinopitbull......??/ i wonder what is his next name after this ban.
I thought he had JL syndrome, but it seems that this is a some unknown worse disease ;D
Well Stive will be getting up by now down under.....do as ask....close my account.
I have two atomic bombs in the left pocket, and one horse in right hand
.....have a look at a Wiesbaden Session Nov 24 2012.
Don't look to good.......
Sam might enjoy this one. Flat might not....
Enjoy
And before someone comes with these are false numbers, they are as real as it can get.
Ray
... And that concludes flatmans time here. Now banned.
For the record flatman, I know for a fact you have lied about a few things at least. You are a less than admirable character that has really showed true colours.
Ps when you talked about shooting people, I didn't realize you were talking about ejaculation. I mean e:w
Quote from: Steve on Nov 30, 06:04 PM 2012
Ps when you talked about shooting people, I didn't realize you were talking about ejaculation. I mean e:w
Yeah, yeah Steve. I bet you deep,deep down you enjoyed that. :twisted:
ooh yeah baby
(link:://:.muttsscootershack.com/resources/wh.jpg)
.oO(and a lot of sperms in your mouth?? ... I mean who says that kind of thing??)
I'm easily amused. This will keep me happy all weekend.
Wow, I was a bit late for the party, sorry.
Ken
I removed insulting posts from Flatman. I did ask him before privately to cool down and stop spreading another Balkan war here. That's too much. We should not allow here insulting anyone by insulting his ethnic background.
And though i do like Flatman and am not crazy about his opponent, that's already too much to tolerate. That's unacceptable. Even if it was provoked. No, another side is not an example of a good will and behaviour as well. But i don't wanna go into this.
I want to ask everybody again to stop personal conflicts and revenges and go back to roulette studies.
Quote from: rayhd63 on Nov 30, 05:27 PM 2012
.....have a look at a Wiesbaden Session Nov 24 2012.
Don't look to good.......
Sam might enjoy this one. Flat might not....
Enjoy
And before someone comes with these are false numbers, they are as real as it can get.
Ray
Ray
I enjoy someone backing me up, but I'd much rather see every session win.
Sam
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 30, 10:27 PM 2012
I removed insulting posts from Flatman. I did ask him before privately to cool down and stop spreading another Balkan war here. That's too much. We should not allow here insulting anyone by insulting his ethnic background.
And though i do like Flatman and am not crazy about his opponent, that's already too much to tolerate. That's unacceptable. Even if it was provoked. No, another side is not an example of a good will and behaviour as well. But i don't wanna go into this.
I want to ask everybody again to stop personal conflicts and revenges and go back to roulette studies.
iggiv
When you say "opponent", I assume you mean me. What a misinformed thing to say! I have praised Flat in three or four posts for taking 300 numbers from ten members and winning on all of them. I'm sure someone read it!
I am the person who said let's build a tracker and prove this thing. Never did I allude to the idea I wanted him to fail. NEVER! People will back me up on that.
I am the person who designed a mechanical tracker that uses magnetic pucks and I am the person who learned how to use it and I am the person he praised until the system lost.
Before you make these assumptions that I'm an opponent, you should read my posts to Flat. Geez, man, I'm the one who named him FLATman, after BATman. I don't name people I don't like!
Sam
I think Iggy means Speed 2Cats ;)
OH, the war thing!!
Listen, I visited Dubrovnik on vacation. Lord, that walled city was beautiful. And the sea, Agean or Adriatic, don't remember which, to die for!! And they did!
OK, iggiv. I guess I assumed wrong. Gulp! Sorrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeee! :-\
Sam
Hey,
I've been a very naughty boy ^-^ and quoted flatman's offending gunplay post in reply 29 of this thread.
I suppose one of this forum’s half-arsed mods ought to delete it. Again, it's reply 29 of this thread.
:thumbsup:
maybe this iggiv don't like the fact that two of his best friends hire (JL,F_LAT_INO) showed their true colors and get ban (I am very satisfied that I have helped in this), but it does not give him the right to delete my post. Maybe he decided to be the next ?
My last advice, deleted message for the F_LAT_INO is:
remember u still have new victor forum, they need the old gentleman like u ;)
;D
i do not understand you people ...........why this saga goes so many pages..system either work or not..more often NO WILL NOT WORK as superman says...and you remember that this flatino guy always used to say that he plays for his day needs such as cigarets and bread or whatever was there so he lives in croatia so imagine how much is that about 15-20 british pounds so ask yourself do you realy want to adopt his metod of play...for 15 quid...i do not think so
speed, i know well that u troll want to involve me into your wars and provoke into something bad as well, but u better watch yourself. u yourself is nothing useful for this forum but rather a troll provocateur. i am going to moderate this forum the way i do and can't care less about u. Is it clear?
Your message was deleted because there was an offending quote which u liked very much and wanted to show to the world over and over and over again. And now You can't help yourself but keep kicking a dead elephant. Flat is not here anymore, but u try keeping your war with him going on and on. Normal person would already leave him alone, he can't even answer u anymore. It's over.
in my mod's opinion i am here to stop conflicts. You can dream that u will provoke me to be banned for this. Honestly i don't care. Even if Steve decides to ban me instead of u and make u a mod here, it won't be a tragedy of my life. I like this forum but it is not a such a big part of my life, be u here or not.
I can give u one good advice though, Speed. Instead of trolling in this forum u better go here:
ompersonal.com.ar . And improve your poor English. This least You can do. That's a very good English learning website. I gave this address to many people in need. Your pidgin English drives me crazy sometimes. And i got used to your trolling. If Steve thinks it is good for the forum it is up to him, i am OK with it.
Maestro, that's a good point. I don't get why people dwell on this. Basically no method in this forum works consistently. that's a fact. Thank u for being one of THINKING people here.
Quote from: maestro on Dec 01, 08:29 AM 2012
i do not understand you people ...........why this saga goes so many pages..system either work or not..more often NO WILL NOT WORK as superman says...and you remember that this F_LAT_INO guy always used to say that he plays for his day needs such as cigarets and bread or whatever was there so he lives in croatia so imagine how much is that about 15-20 british pounds so ask yourself do you realy want to adopt his metod of play...for 15 quid...i do not think so
:wink:
Skakus i won't do it just to drive u crazy and keep u asking again and again
;D
Quote from: Skakus on Dec 01, 04:29 AM 2012
Hey,
I've been a very naughty boy ^-^ and quoted flatman's offending gunplay post in reply 29 of this thread.
I suppose one of this forum’s half-arsed mods ought to delete it. Again, it's reply 29 of this thread.
:thumbsup:
....why do I have the feeling that there is something going on in this whole forum to steer people up and bringing members to jump on each others......
Is there a virus in here ?!? I hope its curable.....
Ray
there are some provocateurs here which do it by purpose. That's their virtual life, that's their "battle". Trolling. To turn this forum into a nest of snakes. That's a problem. When there is an argument of opinions they try making it PERSONAL. And there are other people which get into their traps.
I know what to do about it. But Steve can see the things different way sometimes. It is his forum, so everybody has to respect his policy even that does not agree with it sometimes. Overall the forum is run well.
The trolls can't do much damage here. This conflict will be over soon. So take it easy bud.
To answer the music man and iggiv
Why do I dwell on this? Because I believed FLAT, pure and simple. I totally believed he took those trots from ten members and won with them. I will not give up on his idea as of yet as I see some merit in the L v F system.
I will give up when I am convinced it is a total loser. And, three other guys--especially Stef--worked to help me. Might as well make some use of their work.
Sam
the method could work with him but may not work with u. that's usual
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 01, 11:53 AM 2012
To answer the music man and iggiv
Why do I dwell on this? Because I believed FLAT, pure and simple. I totally believed he took those trots from ten members and won with them. I will not give up on his idea as of yet as I see some merit in the L v F system.
I will give up when I am convinced it is a total loser. And, three other guys--especially Stef--worked to help me. Might as well make some use of their work.
Sam
Well its positive Sam, to try and bring this whole mess back to what this forum should be about.
Roulette.
You may find something in this idea after all which...as I said, would be a positive from all this mess.
Turner
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 01, 10:48 AM 2012
speed, i know well that u troll want to involve me into your wars and provoke into something bad as well, but u better watch yourself. u yourself is nothing useful for this forum but rather a troll provocateur. i am going to moderate this forum the way i do and can't care less about u. Is it clear?
Your message was deleted because there was an offending quote which u liked very much and wanted to show to the world over and over and over again. And now You can't help yourself but keep kicking a dead elephant. Flat is not here anymore, but u try keeping your war with him going on and on. Normal person would already leave him alone, he can't even answer u anymore. It's over.
in my mod's opinion i am here to stop conflicts. You can dream that u will provoke me to be banned for this. Honestly i don't care. Even if Steve decides to ban me instead of u and make u a mod here, it won't be a tragedy of my life. I like this forum but it is not a such a big part of my life, be u here or not.
I can give u one good advice though, Speed. Instead of trolling in this forum u better go here:
ompersonal.com.ar . And improve your poor English. This least You can do. That's a very good English learning website. I gave this address to many people in need. Your pidgin English drives me crazy sometimes. And i got used to your trolling. If Steve thinks it is good for the forum it is up to him, i am OK with it.
funny as always..
I think it is a great success for the forum that we have revealed these two liars, some are still here, but let this ban be a warning to them that this forum is something different from what they thought. I hope, that they will no longer disturb as.
Yes now we need to turn to this game which we all like and try to win in any way in any way. :)
speed
funny is your language, Speed. It is a pity u don't work on it. You can't reveal a liar, You can reveal a lie or truth. You expose a liar. "Disturb as" does not mean "disturb my a**" does it? Disturb us.
Don't try to pretend being smarter than the others and be so arrogant without this simple ability to express yourself correctly.
I'm tired to reply on your obsessed psychological comments (this is last one) , find another cure for your nerves , leave me and my English alone or go with your banned friends. bye
Speed, u start with me first then ask me to leave u alone? Man i try avoid u like the plague. But then u come over to me with your illiterate remarks first, threatening to ban me from the forum and ask me to leave u alone when u get a proper reply? Stay alone. Don't start your illiterate trolling and everybody will be happy. Maybe except u.
;D
Quote from: speed on Dec 01, 02:26 PM 2012
Yes now we need to turn to this game which we all like and try to win in any way in any way. :)
speed
Speed,
Ok, why not continue with your thread where you discuss how you came out ahead after almost a million spins. You could discuss the method you used to obtain that result. Some of us might be willing to help make it playable, if it is not already.
Still
Still it can't become playable since it is based on a classical gambler fallacy. It's a dead end, bud.
the only thing can be done about is changing it into tracking trends like some other guys do.
Betting on cold does not work. It can look good on graphs though.
Quote from: Still on Dec 01, 03:44 PM 2012
Speed,
Ok, why not continue with your thread where you discuss how you came out ahead after almost a million spins. You could discuss the method you used to obtain that result. Some of us might be willing to help make it playable, if it is not already.
Still
I would tune into that....would be an interesting topic.
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 01, 03:48 PM 2012
Still it can't become playable since it is based on a classical gambler fallacy. It's a dead end, bud.
the only thing can be done about is changing it into tracking trends like some other guys do.
Betting on cold does not work. It can look good on graphs though.
iggiv-i'm not aware speed has disclosed the method. Is that in the public domain?
Anyway, it was an impressive # of spins. I felt that stock market tracking methods could be used to handle the drawdowns, and even reverse direction. This is assuming the original does actually hold up to a million spins. I feel that if something is going up, no matter how slowly, it can be managed.
Still, he did disclose the basic principles. The basic principle is to watch for a certain level of deviation, then bet that this deviation will go in another direction. Other words, if u see certain BIG amount
of red out of the last amount of spins, bet on black. Something of a kind.
When u bet millions of spins and get downdraws like 20 K it does look impressive on a paper. U think that generally the graphs goes up and up, what is 20K when u go up by million overall? This all is just another example of classical gambler fallacy well known for casinos. And it is not the first time when someone gets such graphs, it happened in the old VLS forum before. Guys like that are very welcome by the house when they have enough money to spend. Even transportation to Vegas or Atlantic City can be ready if u want.
Ideally if You have millions in your pocket (as much as casino has) and casino has no limits on the table, You can empty those casinos. But in real life there are too many "buts".
if u want something which has more merit than this, try to change this deviation thing in the opposite direction. Watch when the deviation changes, watch for a trend like this. lets say u got lots of red, then u see black coming. Bet on black. Try this instead.
Lee Tutor recommends this one. don't bet on cold he says till it woke up.
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 01, 04:42 PM 2012
if u want something which has more merit than this, try to change this deviation thing in the opposite direction. Watch when the deviation changes, watch for a trend like this. lets say u got lots of red, then u see black coming. Bet on black. Try this instead.
Lee Tutor recommends this one. don't bet on cold he says till it woke up.
Ok, thanks.
I'm wondering how speed's method differs from that of ego and/or alberjonas' approach. My understanding is they do wait till the deviation starts to turn back around, and even then, not many bets are made. So the number of spins spent waiting might make it unplayable. But a 20K drawdown is, imo, manageable/reducable if you just put something on it like a moving average and work on following the trend, possibly even following the trend down...if the signature of the data (a fairly steady direction) permits. Imo, a moving average would only work if the over all trend is up, and best when only taking crossovers in the direction of the trend. But depending on the signature of the date, maybe possible to go both ways.
u answered your question (how they differ) yourself already.
as for 20 k downdraw, it is not manageable. Don't full yourself. Gambler fallacy is well known and not manageable. If it was, casinos would be out of the business. Because thousands and thousands people have tried it and still keep trying.
Ok, well i voiunteered to look at the data in my own way but could not get a copy of the data.
Quote from: Still on Dec 01, 05:08 PM 2012
Ok, thanks.
I'm wondering how speed's method differs from that of ego and/or alberjonas' approach. My understanding is they do wait till the deviation starts to turn back around, and even then, not many bets are made. So the number of spins spent waiting might make it unplayable. But a 20K drawdown is, in my opinion, manageable/reducable if you just put something on it like a moving average and work on following the trend, possibly even following the trend down...if the signature of the data (a fairly steady direction) permits. in my opinion, a moving average would only work if the over all trend is up, and best when only taking crossovers in the direction of the trend. But depending on the signature of the date, maybe possible to go both ways.
hi Still
The first difference is in the formula for calculating the deviation, and second when the trigger occurs then I use a positive progression.
At the beginning the system had a very large hole in the bank that are reaching up to 70 000u in several million spins. With the latest modifications tested on 36 milions spins holes were reduced to about 40 000u. I must admit that I have tried it all, the worst thing is that it sometimes takes about 100 000 spins to turn out from the minus of about 40 000, this is the reason why the system is not playable on live wheels. Could you explain a little more detailed what u mean by "moving average"? i don't remember did i try this.
I see that you're not a beginner and i wonder why You are entering into a debate about roulette with iggiv , I am 100% sure that he even does not know what is a positive progression, he is expert who believes in hit and run because he read that in some book..
Speed, u already have dinned it into our ears how good positive progression is. The true thing is that on the long run progressions usually don't work at all, be it positive or negative. If the flatbet doesn't work, then a long progression is usually a way to disaster. Just like in your method with -40k, which u "manage" to achieve.
I work with flatbets by the way. If u just knew how well flatbet may work...U would keep silent about your "magical" progressions.
I won't start about hit-n-run, everything has been said already. And it is not just "some book", there are lots of books i have read on the subject, some of them u will not even find anywhere anymore.
As concerning "beginners"....Some beginners at least are willing to learn something they have no clue about.
why do you write about something you do not Understand :question:
What i don't understand, Speed? this "up on the win, down on the loss" stuff i passed long time ago. What u r trying to do now, i already did. It does not work. U will never beat roulette like this. U will stay in your "-40k" holes managing to get to "-25K" hole.
U can't beat roulette like this. U r just stuck in the "tunnel vision" syndrome, i am sorry. U have to get wider views to succeed in this game.
Quote from: speed on Dec 01, 07:18 PM 2012
hi Speed,
I must admit that I have tried it all, the worst thing is that it sometimes takes about 100 000 spins to turn out from the minus of about 40 000, this is the reason why the system is not playable on live wheels. Could you explain a little more detailed what u mean by "moving average"? i don't remember did i try this.
A moving average can reduce draw-downs in an upwardly mobile system. I've tested that already on some of my own data. When data is running underneath the moving average, the player can sit out. Or, if the signature of the data permits, may allow to reverse directions. This won't work on completely random data, in my experience. While the Moving Average reduces drawdowns, it also decreases overall profits. That's the price to pay to play.
The time spent sitting out, or all the math needed might make this unplayable as well on live wheel. But if could be applied to a portfolio of data-streams coming from multiple even chance bets, it might work. Again, the overall progress must be upwards.
As for positive progression i much prefer it. I have done tests on both negative and positive. I found that positive only works when the overall trend of flat bet is positive. So if your system is working over that many spins, it may well be positive flat betting. A positive progression would exploit that.
i'm fairly new to roullete but have some experience in financial markets, testing auto trading robots on data for potential use going forward. I also have four months of data from a robot i ran automatically that risked about $200 average per attempt. I think it was over a hundred trades going forward, based on optomistic data going back three years. Later, i analyzed those trades to see how the modest profit could have been maximized. Moving average and positive progression were very impressive.
Quote from: Still on Dec 01, 08:21 PM 2012
As for positive progression i much prefer it. I have done tests on both negative and positive. I found that positive only works when the overall trend of flat bet is positive. So if your system is working over that many spins, it may well be positive flat betting. A positive progression would exploit that.
i'm fairly new to roulette but have some experience in financial markets, testing auto trading robots on data for potential use going forward. I also have four months of data from a robot i ran automatically that risked about $200 average per attempt. I think it was over a hundred trades going forward, based on optomistic data going back three years. Later, i analyzed those trades to see how the modest profit could have been maximized. Moving average and positive progression were very impressive.
I would never use a positive progression if only with flat bet can be in plus. With testing I noticed that with flat bet on deviation only(without prog), system reduces the house edge for around
1.3%, on french roulette still have -0.15% and -1.4% at european roulette. With my positive progression in stages system manages to overcome the house advantage but problem is that holes which are created by progression. Yes, the system is in big plus after 36m spins, but I did not understand, or I'm very tired or my English is really bad, how u think to use that "moving average"?? Can you to set an example for some other system? So i can see how it works. I'm very interested
Working just with EC is limiting your opportunities in roulette. It is just like betting 18 numbers every time. There are only six sets of 18 numbers u can bet. These are extremely stiff patterns to bet on.
Just food for thought. It is like u come to play roulette and say u wanna bet 10 numbers. Then someone (in your head) says: " hey, u r not allowed to play those 10 numbers, u have only 6 sets of
18 numbers to bet on". Now think how many opportunities u got with 37 numbers to track trends.
How many sets of how many numbers u can use.
And roulette kills stiff patterns. All this BRBRBBR and so on-- rulette just kills them. Any pattern u take, u will play it a few times and then u gonna lose on it. That's a very nature of roulette. Now think how many patterns u can create with 37 numbers.
that's why the roulette table with this nice convenient layout was created. Because an average human being is lazy by his nature. If u got this layout, it's much easier just to place 1 chip on a dozen or red,
than bet 10 or 12 numbers. Why bother? That's a mental trap. Casino knows that outside bet is mostly for outsiders which are gonna lose sooner or later...
that's a mistake that progression can overcome a house edge. If u can't win flatbet, usually u will not win with progression as well.
If u don't believe me ask Steve. What will he say about it? That progression can overcome a house edge? I doubt it.
if u overcome a house edge u will never get those huge holes in your bankroll. U may lose 40 units then gain 50 then lose 60 gain 40 then gain 40 again...it will look roughly like that. Gradually u go up, not that much down. U will not get huge downdraws if u overcome the house edge.
The truth is that with your method house edge is much smaller than your method negative edge...
to avoid this iggiv and troling enyone who wants can continue discussion on this system here where it belongs
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=9762.msg84278#msg84278 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=9762.msg84278#msg84278)
it's not trolling, it is a roulette discussion, Speed.
it is not about your personality, it is about your wrong idea which will never beat roulette.
Look, i have here a nice pic of my play of martingaling RNG for 50 spins. that's very luring, looks like a holy grail :)
All i did is this: when i get 2 reds i bet black, on the loss i double. This looks just as good as your graph, just shorter :)
and why do u want to talk about your method in your own thread only? because there u r able to delete things u can't argue with? But man, this will not help u defeat roulette. Even if u defeat in the forum 500 iggivs and 1500 JLs ;D
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 01, 09:19 PM 2012
that's a mistake that progression can overcome a house edge. If You can't win flatbet, usually u will not win with progression as well.
If u don't believe me ask Steve. What will he say about it? That progression can overcome a house edge? I doubt it.
if u overcome a house edge u will never get those huge holes in your bankroll. U may lose 40 units then gain 50 then lose 60 gain 40 then gain 40 again...it will look roughly like that. Gradually u go up, not that much down. U will not get huge downdraws if u overcome the house edge.
The truth is that with your method house edge is much smaller than your method negative edge...
Dang. I wrote quite a bit in first answer but then lost it all in a flash when somehow hit the wrong buttons on my keyboard. So this answer may be shorter.
A scientist is not satisfied with terms like "usually". I would like to know what happens whenever the usual (losing) pattern is broken. Some simple tests would reveal the answer.
I don't know how any progression could overcome house edge either. But i've never seen anything overcome 36m spins either. Yes, any 36m spins could end up positive. But its what it looks like as it goes positive that is interesting. Is there a trend? Does it look non-random? Can random generate any such data signature? One way to test that is test 36m on random several times and see what it looks like. Better yet, break 36m down to 1000 parts and see if all parts are positive. If so, that suggests non-random phenomenon, even if can't be explained yet.
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 01, 09:31 PM 2012
it's not trolling, it is a roulette discussion, Speed.
it is not about your personality, it is about your wrong idea which will never beat roulette.
Look, i have here a nice pic of my play of martingaling RNG for 50 spins. that's very luring, looks like a holy grail :)
All i did is this: when i get 2 reds i bet black, on the loss i double. This looks just as good as your graph, just shorter :)
and why do u want to talk about your method in your own thread only? because there u r able to delete things You can't argue with? But man, this will not help u defeat roulette. Even if u defeat in the forum 500 iggivs and 1500 JLs ;D
Nah i wouldnt say it looks just as good. my tests show that even if a positive progression cannot overcome house edge, it will be much safer to use. The signature of the chart will be more like reverse to a neg marty. Gradual descent with occasional spike. Speed's chart looks like the stock market.
i am not saying that negative progression is just the same. U guys can explore this stuff, i don't mind. but practically it has very little sense comparing to watching the roulette wheel and single numbers, i think.
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 01, 10:00 PM 2012
i am not saying that negative progression is just the same. U guys can explore this stuff, i don't mind. but practically it has very little sense comparing to watching the roulette wheel and single numbers, i think.
Do you mean MJ style of betting? Maybe it works, i can't say. I don't think EC deviation betting is against anything else that might work. It's just that its hard to generate deviation data on single numbers, at least the kind of deviations ego and or speed look for...without waiting a long time. Must use something that is supposed to happen frequently, like a coin flip.
Did not know betting on black after two reds in a row could overcome ten million or ten billion spins. But if it did, no matter the drawdown, seem to me like it could be called down to earth.
What i think about the earth is a whole other story!
the downdraw is the matter. As i said. with unlimited resources and no limit tables anyone can beat casinos. in any game. Say blackjack. U lose one game with 5 backs, u bet 10 bucks, u lose 10, u bet 20...until u win and start over. At least one time u will win. U don't care about the losing streaks, u have unlimited resources.
but this is NOT DOWN TO EARTH. This is rather up in the space. ;D
but u guys are free to explore, who am i to convince u
Some years ago I tested 1 up on lose one down on win om EC with "unlimited" bankroll I used 1 cent as ground bet, had 100000 bankroll. The worse session took a month and probably 100 playing hours to get back to win one unit. I did a test again and post it a few weeks ago. It is not at end yet, and may never be. It is 5000 units back.
You can come in a situation the bets even out after a billion spins, they even out in the long run by % not by numbers. 40 60 in 100 spins is 20% that can be 550 450 in 1000 spins which is 10% and in 10000 spins it can be 5100 4900 which is even less in % but not by absolute numbers. At a million spins it can be a part of a %, but still bigger difference in number as 10000 spins.
Quote from: Ralph on Dec 01, 10:47 PM 2012
Some years ago I tested 1 up on lose one down on win om EC with "unlimited" bankroll I used 1 cent as ground bet, had 100000 bankroll. The worse session took a month and probably 100 playing hours to get back to win one unit. I did a test again and post it a few weeks ago. It is not at end yet, and may never be. It is 5000 units back.
You can come in a situation the bets even out after a billion spins, they even out in the long run by % not by numbers. 40 60 in 100 spins is 20% that can be 550 450 in 1000 spins which is 10% and in 10000 spins it can be 5100 4900 which is even less in % but not by absolute numbers. At a million spins it can be a part of a %, but still bigger difference in number as 10000 spins.
Its a pointless discussion about whats better: flat,negative or progressive progression. I have seen few times positive progression pass 1M spins but it does not make it a winner. You just identify a condition you bet against and use the best combination of bet selection,BR and MM in your opinion.
It amazes me how much time is wasted on extensive testing and that players expect to duplicate testing results in a real play.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Dec 02, 12:09 AM 2012
Its a pointless discussion about what's better: flat,negative or progressive progression. I have seen few times positive progression pass 1M spins but it does not make it a winner. You just identify a condition you bet against and use the best combination of bet selection,BR and MM in your opinion.
It amazes me how much time is wasted on extensive testing and that players expect to duplicate testing results in a real play.
You will never find a "Winner" in that meaning it can not lose or even guaranty a long term winning.
You can find a method which works and win for that play you do, you have got the right method for just that play. Testing long runs will not give any useful information. That's the reason I play low stake while I "Test" as many tests works out well. I do not want to run long tests and win a fictive 100000 and later in real play lose. Anyhow I try and use some which is common sense but still not correct by science. I use repeaters and test my methods by looking at the all over observations, seldom the current play. Numbers use to repeat and if I am in a such streak I win if not I lose. I believe it is better to stake lower to the bankroll than have few units.
Sometimes it is fun to explore the wheel, but we should know it is the highest value the fun then we do it. Some luck is very helpful in all playing.
If it were different, it should not be a game. Risk free is not game in most part of what we do, Whitout risks seldom gain. The 100% winning methods has been hunted for a few hundred years. and even wellknown scientist using the words fastest computers has done it, and not got there, still it is a lot trying using pen and paper, Good Luck!
I am of the opinion Ralph is right in his assessment of luck. What I try to do is determine if I am in my "lucky cycle" or not. If so, make a few units and get out. If not, get out quickly.
I have come to believe--and I have no science to back this up--that the lucky cycle is personal, not global. I can be unlucky at roulette and go to baccarat. I will still be unlucky. It seems to follow. I've had a hard time accepting this as fact, but the years of losing have convinced me.
The "Hit and See and Run" philosophy is working for me.
Sam
If we somehow can avoid the worse, we have good chance to be ahead. It is a lot of time we win and lose but still ahead. Usually it is destroyed by one terrible game. It is hard to know how to avoid.
I have seen an early stop gives less and anyhow to avoid large losses a stop we must have.
If I play using 5000 bankroll, and aim for about hundred, I use to get more than 5000 before a bankroll is lost. The small units make not much at the time, but by the time it is adding up.
Sometimes, but not too often it can be more risky play, we do not know if it will work, must be prepared to lose. If we then come in a good streak, it can be very much. We shall not do it if we not can take the loss.
I play 1000 of spins and it can be a plus of about 2 Euro in 1000 spins, and many times it is tens of 1000 before the real bad one.
I use to do well, as I know I do not know more than many other, I think it is luck which make a different. We play against odds which make the bank a winner. The bank do win, but not an average part from all players, some win some lose.
If think it does matter how we play, we can not know before when, but I can see some methods do better than others. 2/3 to EC I think is much harder to stay plus with than inside bets on fewer numbers. In a bad streak it does not eat on the bank, and in good it pays more.
a 2/3 bet are very hard to recover from if a bad streak is behind, the expected rate can then be you have to get 90% hit for many spins. Inside numbers cluster soon or later, and a few hits can recover several hundred units. Still I see 2/3 and Ec bets are very popular. In Europe and some other places they know that and the bank has lower HE on ECs.