For all you guys who like to play double dozens, here's a small tweak that seems to have big benefits.
This is based on the my "Forced win" bet method.
In the original method, we began by betting 1-1 on 2 dozens. After every loss, we increased our bet on both dozens by 1 unit until we reached a new profit.
With this new method, we begin by betting 1-1 on 2 dozens, but we don't go to 2-2 until we have either won two times or lost 2 times. They don't have to be consecutive losses or wins.
11-11 Win
11-11 Lose
11-11 Lose That's 2 losses, so our next bet is 12-12
12-12 Lose
12-12 Win
12-12 Lose That's 2 losses, so our next bet is 13-13
13-13 Lose
13-13 Win
13-13 Win That's 2 wins, so our next bet is 14-14
14-14 Win
14-14 Win That's 2 wins, so our next bet is 15-15
15-15 Lose
15-15 Lose That's 2 losses, so our next bet is 16-16
Reset whenever you reach a new profit.
This little tweak helps keep our bet sizes from rising so quickly as the original but still has enough recovery power to reach new profits.
GLC
Nice idea. ;)
Was thinking maybe could be adapted for single doz/col bet...? eg: crossplay
Up 1 after 2 wins; Up 1 after 4 losses
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Feb 07, 12:07 PM 2013
Nice idea. ;)
Was thinking maybe could be adapted for single doz/col bet...? e.g.: crossplay
Up 1 after 2 wins; Up 1 after 4 losses
A.
Nice to hear from you A.
Sounds like the right ratios, so if one works, the other should also.
I posted it for double dozens because a friend has been focusing on double dozens and I thought it would be interesting to him. Saves a PM.
I made a mistake in my original post when I said we increase bet amount by 1 unit after each loss. I meant to say we increase by +1 after every bet win or lose. Not saying we can't limit the increases to losses only and stay the same after wins.
If you have enough money, this always reaches a new high. So far anyway.
GLC
Hi GLC,
I have thought more on your 2 dozen idea and adapted for single dozen/column play. Hope you do not mind me posting here.
Use WIN/LOSS "strings" (W/L) for the outcomes (max of 6 results per string)
Progression:
Up 1 unit after 5 L's in a row in a string.
Up 1 unit if there are 3 W's in a row in a string.
Up 1 unit if there are 5 L's out of the 6 results in a string.
Up 1 unit if there are 3 or more W's out of the 6 results in a string.
IMPORTANT: Start new w/l record string at each new level of betting.
Suggested stop point:
After a winning string and in new profit.
Recommended stop point:
After 2 consecutive winning strings and in new profit.
After 2 winning strings separated by level string results and in new profit.
[But of course you may stop on any profit during or after the end of a string e.g.: +2; +3....etc...]
Example strings:
LLLLL - 5 L's in a row so up 1 unit and start new string
LLWWW - 3 consecutive w's in a row so up 1 unit and start new string
LWLWLW - 3 out of 6 w's so up 1 unit and start new string
LLWLLW - level so start new string at same unit level
LLLLWW - level so start new string at same unit level
WWW - 3 consecutive w's in a row so up 1 unit and start new string
LLLWLL - 5 out of 6 L's so up 1 unit and start new string
Real game at SLCasino:
START STRING @ 1 UNIT
WLLWLW +3 (3 out of 6 W results so increase by 1 UNIT)
NEXT STRING @ 2 UNIT
LWLLLW +3 (NO CHANGE SO RESUME AT SAME LEVEL)
WWLLLL +3 (NO CHANGE SO RESUME AT SAME LEVEL)
LLWWW +11 (3 W's in a row - so immediately UP 1 UNIT) - Or STOP due to 2 winning strings separated only by level result(s)
NEXT STRING @ 3 UNIT
LWLLWL +11 (NO CHANGE SO RESUME AT SAME LEVEL)
LLWWLW +20 (3 out of 6 W results - STOP due to 2 winning strings separated only by level result(s) )
+20 IN 35 BETS MADE
==================
Use with your favourite single doz/col selection method (I'm using CrossPlay)
Atlantis.
Atlantis, you're always welcome to post your ideas in my topics. I like your idea.
As a matter of fact, I have been testing a combination of your single dozen progression coupled with my double dozen progression.
When we get only 2 dozens spun in the last 3 spins, we bet those 2 dozens using my progression.
When we get all 3 dozens spun in the last 3 spins, we bet the farthest back dozen using your progression.
Any time we are at a new profit (or just back to even) we reset both progressions.
For example: If we get dozens 2-3-2 we will be betting the 2 & 3 dozens next and using our double dozen progression line.
If we get doz 2 again we will have 2-3-2-2 and we will continue to bet the 2 & 3 dozens.
If we get doz 1, even though we lose, we will have 2-3-2-2-1 and we still bet the last 2 dozens which are 1 & 2.
If we get doz 3, we lose our bet and we have all 3 dozens showing in the last 3 spins so we bet the farthest back doz which in this case is the 2 dozen. We also switch over to our single dozen progression line to determine our next bet amount
If we get doz 2, we win and have 2-3-2-2-1-3-2. We have all 3 dozens showing in the last 3 spins so we bet the farthest back which is the 1 dozen.
If we get doz 3, we lose our single doz bet and we now have only 2 dozens in the last 3 spins so we bet the 2 & 3 dozens next using our double dozens progression line.
When a zero hits, we just take the loss and continue on as if it wasn't there.
Just started testing, but so far it's gradually adding chips to the coffers.
GLC
Glc i will try this one. :thumbsup:
Quote from: warrior on Feb 07, 11:03 PM 2013
Glc i will try this one. :thumbsup:
Hi warrior,
Yes - this way of play on the doz/col's looks suprisingly strong!
GLC - Thanks for explaining how you are attacking both sides. It's very clear, clever and quite novel to me. Good to hear it is delivering for you.
Let us hope the success will not fizzle out (but I've got a good feeling about this) :)
A.
Guys, It could be that we can use an even safer double dozen bet progression. Something like only increasing our bet size after a loss and staying at the current bet size after wins. The single dozen can help recover the double dozen and vice versa so neither has to be as strong as if it had to stand on it's own.
All suggestions are appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm going into a very busy schedule for a couple of weeks and won't have much time to work on this.
I know that it's in good hands with Warrior and Atlantis working on it.
It's not going to be the perfect system, but I think it will definitely be playable. Each person will have to set their own parameters re: win target vs stop loss.
I like it because it's very easy to play. Oops, having written this last statement it worries me a little. Easy to play usually means it won't hold up over the long haul.
We'll see.
GLC
Hi GLC,
I agree that we can be less aggressive with the progression with perhaps no need sometimes to go up 1 unit after a winning run... After all why risk profits when can reset at same level, as you have suggested.
For instance this single doz session at SLC today:
@ 1 UNIT:
WLWLLW +3 (STAY AT 1U)
LLWW +5 (STOPPED SESSION HERE AT +5)
The important thing is to have a good and consistent selection method to accompany the money management side of it.
Regards,
A.
Hello
Today I got a plastic card in the mail good for $100 at lots of casinos. I don't know why. One of those was Prism, which accepts U.S. players. Slowest RNG casino I ever saw in my life!!
But I tried the money management as set out by Atlantis and won $25.00 easily. Only went to 3 units for a short time. When I was up even one dollar, I reset to 1 and went from there.
Thanks, Atlantis!
TwoCat
Sorry, George!! I should have said thanks to you first for starting the thread. Sorry 'bout me! :'(
Anyhoo, Brothers of the Ball, I have made $69 with this system. The single EC one.
If this keeps up, I'll hire Stef and Nick to bot it for me!
Sam
TCS, No apology necessary. Just don't yell at me if things take a turn for worse. Atlantis has big shoulders, yell at him! :girl_to:
Hey, George!
I just had a rough session. Had to go all the way to an eight-dollar bet, but I got back and won a few dollars profit. I am betting on the oldest dozen or column, as they are "due". LOL
Sam
Hi TCS,
Glad you're doing well. I've had 2/2 winning sessions today and I stopped when a few units in plus.
My last session was:
@ 1 unit:
LWWLWW +6 profit (STOPPED HERE)
The single dozen/column system I use (yes I monitor cols too!) is one by JohnLegend posted under the name "Crossplay". I am not betting EVERY spin... only on triggers. But there are regular bets and not too much waiting around. The method was an extension or supplement of another method of JL's called "THE ZONE". Here is the link for anyone who wishes to read up on Crossplay:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=157.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=157.0)
The progression I posted appears to suit very well.
The system may work even better if waiting for a Virtual Loss game first (or even 2 virtual losses) before play... but I simply play it without these for the time being and it performs well enough for me so far.
A.
A.
Thanks for that.
Sam
Up $100
what bet selection are you playing Sam?
That thing Atlantis posted just above. Using either the last dozen or column that is furthest back.
Hi GLC,
Quote from: GLC on Feb 07, 10:39 AM 2013
With this new method, we begin by betting 1-1 on 2 dozens, but we don't go to 2-2 until we have either won two times or lost 2 times. They don't have to be consecutive losses or wins.
11-11 Win
11-11 Lose
11-11 Lose That's 2 losses, so our next bet is 12-12
12-12 Lose
12-12 Win
12-12 Lose That's 2 losses, so our next bet is 13-13
13-13 Lose
13-13 Win
13-13 Win That's 2 wins, so our next bet is 14-14
14-14 Win
14-14 Win That's 2 wins, so our next bet is 15-15
15-15 Lose
15-15 Lose That's 2 losses, so our next bet is 16-16
Reset whenever you reach a new profit.
This little tweak helps keep our bet sizes from rising so quickly as the original but still has enough recovery power to reach new profits.
Just an idea, George. Maybe we could play the single doz way and then switch to double dozen betting using sekuritati's trigger played using your progression as above?....
Quote
1. Wait for 3 spins where the same dos/col repeated then bet on the other two for 1 spin.
I have been live testing all day on jebet fun play mode and the majority of times after three spins with a repeating dozen/column the other two hit on the fourth spin.
If lose wait for next qualifier.
Example
=====
DOZ: 3,2,1,2,2,2-------------bet 1-1 on doz 1 and 3
If 2 losing or 2 winning bets happen increase by +1 as per your rules.
Regards,
A.
up $125
Quote from: atlantis on Feb 10, 06:44 AM 2013
Hi GLC,
Just an idea, George. Maybe we could play the single doz way and then switch to double dozen betting using sekuritati's trigger played using your progression as above?....
Example
=====
DOZ: 3,2,1,2,2,2-------------bet 1-1 on doz 1 and 3
If 2 losing or 2 winning bets happen increase by +1 as per your rules.
Regards,
A.
A, You know know how it goes. Someone has an idea for a system. Even if they test the heck out of it, once it gets posted everyone can come up with tweaks. Once I put it on the board, it's not my system, it's our system.
I had been thinking of what to do with a triple repeat from the beginning. I originally considered playing the single dozen after that trigger also since we don't get many single dozen triggers, but betting for 4 in a row seems to be going against logic so I just left it at betting the last 2 dozens.
I also considered betting the double dozen bet after the same dozen hits twice in a row. All options are possible.
Really what you're suggesting is to eliminate the 221, 112, 113, 331, 332 and 223 as triggers for a double dozen bet.
So now we're playing a single dozen bet after all 3 dozens hit in the last 3 spins or a double dozen bet for the farthest back 2 dozens after a dozen repeats 3 times. That's going to minimize the betting opportunities drastically. Does it increase the odds of a win? Maybe, maybe not.
Playing on Dozens and Columns can double the number of betting opportunities for us with A.D.D.
For those who like playing the original way, we can change the double dozen progression from 2 losses or wins to 3 losses or wins before increasing our bet size to slow the climb, but in the long run, I don't know if it will eliminate big bets or just reduce how often they come around.
Sam, How far in the hole were you when you were betting 8 smackers? Also, were most of your wins withing say 1-4 unit bets? If so, maybe we should limit our bet sizes to 4 and use the leveller idea of staying at 4 until we recover or reach a pre-determined stop-loss. We must think of the leveller in this way. We play the game 90% of the time winning using our betting progression from 1-4. On the rare occasions when we get into trouble and reach 4 unit bets, we switch to a 4 unit flat bet. We don't have to recover all the losses to re-set to 1, maybe half would be good. Remember, it's unrealistic to think we will come up with a system that eliminates the possibility of a losing session. We have to decide how to play so that we minimize those losses.
Let's say when we're at 4 unit bets we're down 25 units. If we get to only down 12 or so units, we re-set to 1 and recover the other 12 or 13 units using our 1-3 unit bets. On the other hand, if we get down from 25 units to say 35 units, we again end the attack and re-set to 1 unit bets. Just thinking out loud.
Also, none of the above numbers are set in stone, we can use 1 to 5 or 7 or 10 instead of 1 to 4.
Remember my 5-10% suggestion. Right now Sam, you should only consider $7-13 as winnings. The other $115 or so is just money you get keep in your bank until the casino presents their bill. And believe me, they have a very persistent bill collector.
If we can keep 10%, we hit the jackpot. :thumbsup:
Hi GLC,
You wrote:
Quote
A, You know know how it goes. Someone has an idea for a system. Even if they test the heck out of it, once it gets posted everyone can come up with tweaks. Once I put it on the board, it's not my system, it's our system.
Just tossing an idea about, that's all - but I remember testing sekuritati's idea many moons ago and he is right - there are many winners on that fourth bet after a 3 in a row dozen. Just did not want you to miscontrue anything I wrote as being negative or against what you originally set out. (As a matter of fact I have already posted my own favourite double-dozen method elsewhere)
There can be many tweaks and mods and adjustments made by individual players of this as you rightly stated. In fact I think it a very good thing to allow a flexible response to the current situational play scenario.
For instance TwoCatSam has adapted it to his own particular taste that suits him.
As long as the basic foundation is strong then we can endure....
I am confident to surmise that this can be a longterm winner but let me state now that I have no intention of losing with this, George. Furthermore I do not expect to lose with it either - at least not the way I play it! :wink:
A.
Guys try this from my 2 pair system, in stead of betting for a repeat dozen bet the opposite 2 dozens in all my testing 6 in row was the most so i know for sure if you have some patience to wait for 3 in a row losses you won't lose , the system was designed for a repeat dozens but it works great the opposite. over 6000 placed bets not spins,and still a winner.
Atlantis, My statement was intended to be encouraging to people to feel free to tweak in any way they think might help.
With as many systems as I have posted, I have experienced just about every treatment out there. I know that you are a gentleman and not prone to negative posting. (Although, Iceman may not agree :lol: ) I don't mind as long people don't start putting me down or trying to make me look stupid for posting an idea even if we all know it won't work in the long run.
I like all tweaks because I know that if someone suggests a tweak, it means they will be testing it and more testing is good in the long run.
Warrior, a bet selection method that can be quantified for expected maximum losses in a row in over 6000 placed bets is excellent information. Even though we know the 7th loss in a row is always a possibility.
People like A and TCS who are playing for real, add a lot to the validity of and interest in the system also.
I don't have so much time to devote to the development process so I love it when you guys jump in and take the bull by the horns, so to speak.
We all have the same goal.
I'm not sure Sam has posted exactly how he's playing this system. If so, forgive me, if not, Sam could you post your method?
A, would you please give a link to your dozens system?
Cheers To All,
GLC
GLC idea here and the 2 pair ,is working good,7 in a row not on this one GLC.
That is welcome news warrior. :)
@ GLC It's difficult sometimes with double dozen methods but I really like your progression idea. Here is the link you requested: link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=10540.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=10540.0)
A.
Frankly, the way I'm doing it is so boring I can barely stay awake. Seriously thinking about hiring this botted by Stef and Nick.
Sam
Twocat,
I was once two cat now one sadly. How are you playing this exactly?
Koolkat
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Feb 10, 03:34 PM 2013
Frankly, the way I'm doing it is so boring I can barely stay awake. Seriously thinking about hiring this botted by Stef and Nick.
Sam
As we get older, that staying awake thing does get be an issue.
I use the method outlined by Atlantis for single dozens or columns. I bet the furthest back dozen or column.
GLC
;D
Older sure beats the alternative. Well, I suppose it does. Hard to make a comparison, really!
Sam
On the other hand, trying to get a good nights sleep is an issue also. I only get about 1 decent nights sleep each week! :'(
By the way, is the alternative you alluded to in your last post being young or being dead? :question:
Sam, You're saying that all you are playing is single dozen or column? No double dozens/columns?
Does that mean the only time you play is when you get all three different doz/col in the last 3 spins?
If so, I have a system called Challenge 2.1 that uses that bet selection method with a Lanky divisor type progression. The progression's no big deal, but I'll look up the selection technique and post it here for you to scratch your head over.
GLC
I'm just going to summarize Challenge 2:1 because I lose the formatting when trying to copy which makes it impossible to follow their explanations.
They use the same trigger of all 3 dozens hitting in the last 3 spins. They too bet for the farthest dozen but they bet up to 3 times for it to hit.
They use a divisor method not too unlike Lanky's 6 point divisor, and there's no reason why Lanky's wouldn't work just a well if you know it.
They suggest beginning with a dividend of 20 and a divisor of 18 to get your 1st bet. Results that are under 1 unit are rounded up to 1 unit. From there on numbers like 1.4, 2.3, etc... are rounded down and numbers like 1.5, 2.6, etc... are rounded up. Normal rounding rules.
So 20 divided by 18 = 1.11 so we round down to a 1 unit bet on our dozen.
If we lose a bet, we add the units lost to the dividend. If we win our bet, we subtract the units won from the dividend.
When we win, we reduce the divisor by 2 numbers and when we lose, we leave the divisor where it is.
When we reach a new profit, we reset our formula and start a new attack.
They recommend a win target of +5 units for a session. A session being 3 games.
A maximum spin number of 45 for each game is recommended.
A stop-loss of 13 units is suggested.
That's the gist of it. Take what you like and chuck the rest.
GLC
P.S. Just like with Lanky's 6 point divisor, we can always use the safety brake option is our bet sizes get too high. If anybody doesn't understand the safety brake, TCS is an expert on Lanky's method. I'm sure he'll be able to explain it perfectly. :love:
Quote from: GLC on Feb 10, 07:13 PM 2013
Sam, You're saying that all you are playing is single dozen or column? No double dozens/columns?
GLC
George
Unless this goes South, I'm with it for life. I use a tracker called "little tracker". Yes, I bet one dozen or one column. I bet the one that has slept the longest, be it dozen or column. If it's a tie, I look back and see which has hit less in the past. Then I go with that one.
It's beastly simple, but it works. B-O-R-I-N-G
Sa,
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Feb 10, 09:22 PM 2013
George
Unless this goes South, I'm with it for life. I use a tracker called "little tracker". Yes, I bet one dozen or one column. I bet the one that has slept the longest, be it dozen or column. If it's a tie, I look back and see which has hit less in the past. Then I go with that one.
It's beastly simple, but it works. B-O-R-I-N-G
Sa,
Are you only betting 1 time per trigger? Is there any other criteria other than just the longest one to sleep? Do you also wait until 3 different dozens/columns in the last 3 spins then bet the farthest back? What progression are you using? Atlantis'?
LOL,
GLC
GLC
Using the "little tracker", I look for this:
Doz Col
2 2
2 1
3 1
1 3
2 1
The second column is furthest back. I begin betting on it and stick with it until a win. Then I look for next furthest back. Yes, I use the Atlantis progression, but I stop when 1 unit up and re-start.
Want a movie?? LoL
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Feb 10, 11:06 PM 2013
GLC
Using the "little tracker", I look for this:
Doz Col
2 2
2 1
3 1
1 3
2 1
The second column is furthest back. I begin betting on it and stick with it until a win. Then I look for next furthest back. Yes, I use the Atlantis progression, but I stop when 1 unit up and re-start.
Want a movie?? LoL
Sam
What's your contingency plan if you column/dozen goes to sleep for over 20 spins? It happened to me not too long ago. Cost me 500 units, my stop-loss. Fortunately they were only quarters, but 500 quarters still stings a little in today's economy.
You know the drill, after missing for 12 in a row, I was thinking, "This things gotta hit next spin." Nope, okay next spin. Nope, okay next spin. Nope. Come on, I can't be that unlucky. Yep, yep, yep all the way to 22 misses and 500 units. Fortunately I wasn't using a marty or a fibby and I had just gotten my allowance. Thanks mom.
All kidding aside, you do know dozens can sleep longer than Rip VanWinkle? Will A's progression handle it?
Worried for you
GLC
GLC
Singin' like Marty Robbins: "Don't worry 'bout me....." ::)
I would stick with the progression. Twenty losses would only amount to about $60 or so. 'course, if you got a run of sleepers one after the other, you're toast.
I made a little movie. Should I post it?
Sam
For GLC (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=EYgXYsMMEBU#ws)
Hi TCS,
Sam, thanks for the videoclip explanation of the way you play the single doz/col!
And just to let you know I will also still be persisting with this as well without changing anything ;)
Now, as I see it, there are 3 ways of playing the progression rules I posted as long as you abide by the underlying strategy.
1) The original way I set out.
2) The less aggressive way I posted later on where you adjust after each "string" is complete and you don't always raise by 1unit on a winning string.
3) The ultra-cautious way where you can reset whenever in profit on a string.
(but this is flexible enough to mix'n'match during a session too - I mean by that you can switch between modes 1, 2 and 3 as you feel necessary)
Sam has shown us the third way, which is working for him - and given his selection method I would agree and endorse that as being the safest option for as GLC pointed out above you can always get a long run of sleepers this way.
I am still winning - so far so good. I play live or live autowheel only and not r.n.g. I do what Sam does and quit when won a few units up. The bot idea might be a good solution for you in view of the "tiresome/boredom" factor you mentioned. I know what you mean. It's a small price to pay for winning though :)
Bye,
A.
Atlantis
Notice how I used Excel to color yellow my dozen/column? So help me, I cannot keep my mind on what I'm doing. So I write down on paper and yellow in the box! Then--with RNG--if I doze off there's no harm.
You are right. Boredom is a small price to pay. This thing shakes out at around 25 to 50 dollars per hour. In the U.S.A., a lot of folks would kill for a job that paid that. But I'm retired. I don't want a job.
I think I'll set my goal thusly: If I reach the $600 mark--that is I have won $500--I will hire the botsters to go to work.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Sam
Hi Sam,
In this winning session played today I show the 3 modes in operation and the results of playing each over the same W/L results as they happened:
MODE 1 (aggressive)
======
@ 1U
WLLLLL -3 SO UP 1UNIT
@ 2U
WWLWWL +9 SO UP 1UNIT
@ 3U
LLLLWW +9 LEVEL SO SAME
@ 3U
LLLLWW +9 LEVEL SO SAME
@ 3U
LLLLWW +9 LEVEL SO SAME
@ 3U
LWW +18 (STOPPED HERE)
MODE 2 (standard)
======
@ 1u
WLLLLL -3 SO UP 1UNIT
@ 2U
WWLWWL +9 SO DOWN 1UNIT
@ 1U
LLLLWW +9 LEVEL SO SAME
@ 1U
LLLLWW +9 LEVEL SO SAME
@ 1U
LLLLWW +9 LEVEL SO SAME
@ 1U
LWW +12 (STOPPED HERE)
MODE 3 (cautious)
======
@ 1U
W +2 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLLW -1 SO UP 1 UNIT
@ 2U
W +3 SO RESET
@ 1U
LW +4 SO RESET
@ 1U
W +5 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLL +0 SO UP 1 UNIT
@ 2U
WW +8 SO RESET
@ 1U
LW +9 SO RESET
@ 1U
W +11 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLWW +11 (STOPPED HERE)
A.
A.
The reason I'm such a fan of robots is you can set, forget it and play conservatively. If it takes a few more spins, who cares?
Thanks for the chart.
Sam
Mode 3 reposted due to transcribing error...
MODE 3 (cautious)
======
@ 1U
W +2 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLL -3 SO UP 1 UNIT
@ 2U
WW +4 SO RESET
@ 1U
LW +5 SO RESET
@ 1U
W +7 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLL +2 SO UP 1 UNIT
@ 2U
WW +10 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLWW +10 SO RESET
@ 1U
LLLLWW +10 SO RESET
@ 1U
LW +11 SO RESET
@ 1U
W +13 (STOPPED HERE)
In this instance the "cautious" approach paid off quite well over the 33 bets placed.
A.
Very impressive Atlantis.
The first chance I get, I'm going to give it a spin on the airball machine at the new Casino Del Sol.
It has a $20 dollar maximum bet, but it looks like that's plenty of room to play the system.
@Sam I love your video. Thanks for all the work you put into it. The best thing is that you got paid 10 bucks to make it.
I see what you mean when you say the progression can handle 20+ losses.
It may be boring, but it's effective and when your bank grows big enough, you can just play for larger units. Eventually, your bets will get big enough to overcome the boring part.
Good luck to ya.
GLC
P.S. Looks like the double dozens have been eliminated all together. I can't blame you. Who needs them when you can win on the singles?
Thanks, George. I'll pass that compliment along to all the good folks at TwoCat Productions!
Sam
Oh boy... First time I looked at this topic it was 2 Dozens... now I come and it's only 1? :S Guess I will have to read the 4 pages to get it...
vladmirov if you cant read 4 pages ? where has life gone? --you can hire readers?
From 236 to 262.
Ahah. I read everything. I played like 2cat about 100 spins, ended up in a small proffit, no relevan DD, as I was playing with 10cent bets... And I must say he's rigth... It's boring as hell...
so we have a potential grail.....but it turns out....it's too boring :xd:
Quote from: GLC on Feb 10, 11:23 PM 2013
What's your contingency plan if you column/dozen goes to sleep for over 20 spins? It happened to me not too long ago. Cost me 500 units, my stop-loss. Fortunately they were only quarters, but 500 quarters still stings a little in today's economy.
You know the drill, after missing for 12 in a row, I was thinking, "This things gotta hit next spin." Nope, okay next spin. Nope, okay next spin. Nope. Come on, I can't be that unlucky. Yep, yep, yep all the way to 22 misses and 500 units. Fortunately I wasn't using a marty or a fibby and I had just gotten my allowance. Thanks mom.
All kidding aside, you do know dozens can sleep longer than Rip VanWinkle? Will A's progression handle it?
Worried for you
GLC
Many times even over 20 spins,and one can't cover each other while both sides showing same performance.
To GLC: Just again to state it wasn't my pretension or objective to change, hijack or influence this thread against your original idea and I hope that you will understand and realise that.
JL has said before that I have a zeal and propensity for morphing and adding to systems, but I can assure all that it is done with nothing but the very best of intentions.
Yes GLC and Ilukan are right. Sleeping doz/col can be big danger, of course...
I've seen sleepers in my games today - dozens which slept 15, 16 spins or so. To use an expression by JL: "I wasn't there when it happened."
Although winning, I am sure TCS will eventually hit such a run - cannot escape it forever live or rng.
I can only say again that I am not betting every spin or the same way that Sam is playing it. There are many other single doz/col systems around posted on this forum that show promise that can be investigated in conjunction with the progression that I laid out. Not all require bets every spin. I mentioned JL's "zone derivative" I am using called "Crossplay" for instance.
It requires a small amount of patience when played live but not too long before qualifiers or triggers for betting will occur.
Perhaps other authors who have posted dozen systems can try THEIR selection methods with this progression strategy and report back on how they fare? If I remember rightly there were a group of interesting ones posted recently that seemed a worthy avenue of exploration.
A.
Guys
With the permission of GLC and Atlantis, I will published a further morphed version of this idea. It will be called the GLAT SYSTEM FOR DOZENS AND COLUMNS.
GL=George
AT=Atlantis.
I've already written it up; just have to cut and paste.
It's easier and not as boring and it is literally begging to be included in the ExcelBot!! ;)
Samster
Ok. I will start the ball rolling with a dozen system and then show the w/l strings beneath.
Sam - I look forward to your revision naturally.
Quote
"BALANCE OF FIVE" Variation by Atlantis
(Wiesbaden spins 21. Jun 2012 table #3)
S # Type W L Net Bal. Bet
============================
1 29 No Bet 0 0 0 0 500
2 21 No Bet 0 0 0 0 500
3 13 No Bet 0 0 0 0 500
4 14 No Bet 0 0 0 0 500
5 10 Bet 1 3 -1 2 502 1 : 1st Dozen W
6 34 Bet 1 3 -1 2 504 1 : 3rd Dozen W
7 33 Bet 1 3 -1 2 506 1 : Column C W= TARGET GAINED. STOP
8 23 No Bet 0 0 0 0 506
9 35 No Bet 0 0 0 0 506
10 13 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 505 1 : 1st Dozen L
11 28 No Bet 0 0 0 0 505
12 21 Bet 1 3 -1 2 507 1 : Column C W
13 9 No Bet 0 0 0 0 507
14 14 Bet 1 3 -1 2 509 1 : Column B W
15 6 No Bet 0 0 0 0 509
16 17 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 508 1 : 3rd Dozen L
17 5 No Bet 0 0 0 0 508
18 5 No Bet 0 0 0 0 508
19 36 No Bet 0 0 0 0 508
20 7 No Bet 0 0 0 0 508
21 11 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 507 1 : 2nd Dozen L
22 6 No Bet 0 0 0 0 507
23 30 No Bet 0 0 0 0 507
24 27 No Bet 0 0 0 0 507
25 9 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 506 1 : Column A L
26 21 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 505 1 : Column B L
27 18 No Bet 0 0 0 0 505
28 7 No Bet 0 0 0 0 505
29 28 Bet 1 3 -1 2 507 1 : 3rd Dozen W
30 0 No Bet 0 0 0 0 507
31 26 No Bet 0 0 0 0 507
32 34 Bet 2 0 -2 -2 505 2 : 2nd Dozen L
33 24 Bet 2 0 -2 -2 503 2 : 1st Dozen L
34 17 No Bet 0 0 0 0 503
35 4 No Bet 0 0 0 0 503
36 31 No Bet 0 0 0 0 503
37 22 No Bet 0 0 0 0 503
38 19 Bet 2 0 -2 -2 501 2 : Column C L
39 32 Bet 2 6 -2 4 505 2 : Column B W
40 33 Bet 2 0 -2 -2 503 2 : 1st Dozen L
41 31 No Bet 0 0 0 0 503
42 0 No Bet 0 0 0 0 503
43 13 Bet 3 9 -3 6 509 3 : 2nd Dozen W
44 14 Bet 1 3 -1 2 511 1 : Column B W
45 24 Bet 1 3 -1 2 513 1 : Column C W
46 13 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 512 1 : 3rd Dozen L
47 13 No Bet 0 0 0 0 512
48 6 No Bet 0 0 0 0 512
49 4 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 511 1 : Column B L
50 27 No Bet 0 0 0 0 511
51 21 No Bet 0 0 0 0 511
52 12 No Bet 0 0 0 0 511
53 6 No Bet 0 0 0 0 511
54 27 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 510 1 : Column A L
55 1 No Bet 0 0 0 0 510
56 17 Bet 1 3 -1 2 512 1 : 2nd Dozen W
57 24 No Bet 0 0 0 0 512
58 4 No Bet 0 0 0 0 512
59 29 Bet 1 3 -1 2 514 1 : 3rd Dozen W
60 30 No Bet 0 0 0 0 514
61 7 No Bet 0 0 0 0 514
62 2 Bet 1 0 -1 -1 513 1 : 2nd Dozen L
63 16 No Bet 0 0 0 0 513
64 7 No Bet 0 0 0 0 513
65 32 Bet 1 3 -1 2 515 1 : 3rd Dozen W
+15 using best of five progression; highest bet=3
Result using W/L strings (MODE 3)
============================
@ 1U
====
WWW +6 SO UP 1
@ 2U
=====
LWWLLL +6 SO SAME
@ 2U
====
LWWLLW +12 SO UP 1
@ 3U
====
LWWW +27 SO UP 1
@ 4U
====
LLLWWL +27 SO SAME
@ 4U
====
W +35 (END)
Correction: +35 PTS in 26 bets over 65 spins.
A.
Atlantis
I have hit a rubber stump and bounced back!
What do you do if you get:
LWWLWW
OR
WLLLWW
I can't find that occurrence in your post.
Sam
Here's another progression to be considered.
LLLLLW = Continue to bet 1 unit until you have a Win then add +1 to your bet. If the Win comes before 5 L's, it's covered below.
LLLLW = +1 unit for next round
LLLWW = Stay the same for next round
LLWWW = +1 unit for next round
LWWWW = -3 units for next round
WWWWW = -6 units for next round
Play until you reach a new profit then reset.
Rationale for bet adjustments.
LLLLLW = +1 We have just lost 5 or more bets in a row, so we can expect to Win soon therefore we want to increase our bet size so we can recover more quickly. But we don't want to increase our bet size too much just in case we continue our losses. Any time we have 5 L's in a row, we don't raise our bet until we have a Win. This can save us a lot of units if we find ourselves betting on that notorious sleeper dozen.
LLLLW = +1 Same as above, except we start a new line after 4 L's and 1 W. The Win doesn't have to come at the end of the 5 bets. It can be anywhere. We're looking for 4 L's and 1 W. LLWLL or LWLLL or even WLLLL.
LLLWW = 0 We have actually won a unit when we have 3 L's and 2 W's in any order. We've had better than expected wins, so not expecting to have more wins than losses coming up. Therefore no bet size change.
LLWWW = +1 We are winning with this set and if we haven't recovered our losses, we hope to continue our winning streak.
LWWWW = -3 We are having a strong win and don't want to jeopardize our recovery by continuing with large bets, so we can drop our bet size substantially.
WWWWW = -6 Most of the time, we will have recovered all losses with 5 wins in a row. If not, we can for sure take a big step back to guard against more large losses.
Any time we are within a few units of a full recovery and we're betting larger units, we should drop our unit size to just enough to reach a new profit with a LLWWW set. So if we find ourselves at -3 units and we've been betting 6 units per spin, we can drop to 1 unit per spin because LWLWW would give us +4 -3 = +1
This is not as aggressive as Atlantis' progressions and so would work well with Sam's bet selection method.
All progressions have pros and cons. No progression is right for everyone. Try different progression ideas on the same spins and see how they compare.
GLC
Hi Sam,
I have highlighted in red inside the correct progression rules below:
Quote
Use WIN/LOSS "strings" (W/L) for the outcomes (max of 6 results per string)
Progression:
Up 1 unit after 5 L's in a row in a string.
Up 1 unit if there are 3 W's in a row in a string.
Up 1 unit if there are 5 L's out of the 6 results in a string.
Up 1 unit if there are 3 W's or more out of the 6 results in a string.
IMPORTANT: Start new w/l record string at each new level of betting.
Suggested stop point:
After a winning string and in new profit.
Recommended stop point:
After 2 consecutive winning strings and in new profit.
After 2 winning strings separated by level string results and in new profit.
[But of course you may stop on any profit during or after the end of a string e.g.: +2; +3....etc...]
Example strings:
LLLLL - 5 L's in a row so up 1 unit and start new string
LLWWW - 3 consecutive w's in a row so up 1 unit and start new string
LWLWLW - 3 out of 6 w's so up 1 unit and start new string
LLWLLW - 4 L's and 2w's = level so start new string at same unit level
LLLLWW - 4 L's and 2w's = level so start new string at same unit level
WWW - 3 consecutive w's in a row so up 1 unit and start new string
LLLWLL - 5 out of 6 L's so up 1 unit and start new string
LWWLWW - Over 3 out of 6 w's so up 1 unit and start new string
You said:
Quote
What do you do if you get:
LWWLWW
OR
WLLLWW ?
Well in modes 1 and 2 you would play until the end of the string
In caution mode 3 you would do for example:
LW +1 reset
W +3 reset
LW +4 reset
W +6 reset
and then your second example:
W +8 reset
LLLWW +9 reset
....
Most of logic behind it as GLC says.. Thanks.
Atlantis.
Thanks, Atlantis.
I should have seen that.
Sam
This may not be that different, but because I'm worried about my buddy Sam getting burried by a very long sleeping dozen, I've come up with a compromise bet scheme.
Each line I will call a set of W/L's.
1. W Ends set. If at a new profit, reset to 1 unit else stay at same bet size and start a new set.
2. LW Ends Set. If at a new profit, reset to 1 unit else stay at same bet size and start a new set.
3. LLW Ends set. Neutral set. No bet size change. Start a new set.
4. LLLW Ends set. -1 Very small loss, so start a new set at same bet size.
5. LLLLW Ends set. -2 Getting into losses, so play next set at +1 unit added to bet size.
6. LLLLL...W The 1st W ends set. Number of L's = 5 or more. This will keep bet sizes from escalating when we hit our sleeping dozen. As soon as we have a Win it ends this set and we increase our bet size by +1 unit for next set.
These 6 sets should cover every possibility. Sets 1 & 2 are our winning sets.
If you find yourself betting a large bet size and you have a few wins in a row, you might consider decreasing your bet size but not all the way back to 1 rather than staying at the same level just in case you're about to go into another losing series.
Remember, Risk vs Reward. Decision time.
Hope this helps,
GLC
Hi GLC,
Another great idea and well thought out! :)
The first 2 strings are the same as and already covered in MODE 3 (The cautious way); the third string is new but an optional acceptable safety measure worthy of consideration and inclusion; the 4th and 5th strings are also different but again focus on protection and caution. And I agree the sixth stringset targets and handles the 'long sleepers'.
I have not tried it yet, but looks robust (and possibly as boring too) to me.
George, well done and I think we should call your special refinements MODE 4 - (The ULTIMATE cautious way)
Thanks,
Atlantis.
MODE 4 it is. :thumbsup:
By George, I like it George!!
Thanks for thinkin' about ol' TwoCat
Sam
Hi George, TCS
First off I played a mode 2(standard) session and reached +18 after 27 bets.
Here is my results from today's session playing with George's new MODE 4 idea....
This was a poor session results wise... and I think only the cautious modes handle it best. Certainly under mode 1(agressive) and mode 2(standard) the string stake requirements for this session would have risen quite high... The mode 3(cautious) result for this session ends at +11 but GLC's mode 4(ultra cautious) ends higher and actually seems safer and I feel coped better...
LLLLLLLLW -6 UP TO 2U
LLLLLW -12 UP TO 3U
LW -9 STAY AT 3U
LLW -9 STAY AT 3U
LLW -9 STAY AT 3U
LW -6 STAY AT 3U
LLLLW -12 UP TO 4U
W -4 STAY AT 4U
W +4 RESET TO 1U
LW +5 STAY AT 1U
LW +6 STAY AT 1U
LLLLLLW +2 UP TO 2U
LLLLW -2 UP TO 3U
LLW -2 STAY AT 3U
LLLW -5 STAY AT 3U
W +1 STAY AT 3U
LLLLW -5 UP TO 4U
LLLLW -13 UP TO 5U
W -3 STAY AT 5U
LW +2 STAY AT 5U
W +12 RESET TO 1U
LLLLW +10 UP TO 2U
LLW +10 STAY AT 2U
LLW +10 STAY AT 2U
LW +12 RESET TO 1U
LLLLLW +9 UP TO 2U
W +13 [STOPPED HERE]
+13 profit.
Probably would have exited earlier.. Very pleased with the way it handled the L's.
I'm thinking now with George that MODE 4 might be the best all-round option to stick with. :smile:
Boring, slow it may be - but hey I won and it triumphed good in the end. I certainly recommend it to TCS as the way to go.
A.
Made 50 units in 25 minutes on demo RNG using GLCs latest method above....but I was betting on the last dozen to hit (so going for repeaters)
I'm reading it A.
Thanks!
S.
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Feb 13, 04:34 PM 2013
Made 50 units in 25 minutes on demo RNG using GLCs latest method above....but I was betting on the last dozen to hit (so going for repeaters)
Hi Le_Chiffre,
Nice session and good profit achieved for 25 mins :)
Have not tried myself on rng yet - definately speeds things up though.
A.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Feb 13, 04:38 PM 2013
I'm reading it A.
Thanks!
S.
It's possible George's Mode 4 will prove to be "THE" way forward to play the single doz/col - coupled with a reasonable selection method, that is. If so then we can discard the previous created modes which have led to this point and simply regard them as having been superceded by a more valid, stronger and viable progression set within which there is still room for some flexibility regarding the stake increases and decreases (as GLC has pointed out)
In that case and if true then we can elect to go with it according it the recognition of being a logical and sensible, successful and optimal progression to use when playing the 2/1 shots.
Regards,
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Feb 13, 05:24 PM 2013
Hi Le_Chiffre,
Nice session and good profit achieved for 25 mins :)
Have not tried myself on rng yet - definately speeds things up though'
A.
Atlantis,
Yes I was quite impressed with it. Will try it for real on a live wheel next week although my thoughts are maybe this system will work well on RNG alone.
I like the last progression from glc. its a very cautious way to play... one needs to be extremly consistently unlucky to lose. but it sure is boring ...
I would change one thing. On the last loosing string, instead of just increasing 1 unit, I would increase 1 unit for each 3 conseccutive losses. e.g LLLLLLLLLW , I would increase 3 units.
Quote from: vladir on Feb 13, 07:40 PM 2013
I like the last progression from glc. its a very cautious way to play... one needs to be extremly consistently unlucky to lose. but it sure is boring ...
I would change one thing. On the last losing string, instead of just increasing 1 unit, I would increase 1 unit for each 3 conseccutive losses. e.g LLLLLLLLLW , I would increase 3 units.
Vladir, That's not a bad idea. I like the option of increasing more than 1 depending on how long the L's were. We all know that if we have a long loss streak and only increase by +1, it can be safer, but also take longer to recover. Like Victor says, a conscious bet progression gives the experienced player more options.
I don't know if 1 unit for every 3 losses is my cup of tea. Maybe 1 unit for every 5 or 6 losses would be okay. But hey, each one can choose his own progression.
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Feb 13, 05:44 PM 2013
Yes I was quite impressed with it. Will try it for real on a live wheel next week although my thoughts are maybe this system will work well on RNG alone.
Hi Le_Chiffre,
I played FTL doz and came out +13 over 46 spins. I'm happy with that (highest bet 3; worst string LLLLW)
Over the same numbers I monitored individually betting each dozen on each spin and I got following results from doing that:
DOZ1 = -8 (next bet would be 2u; high of +3 so far)
DOZ2 = -16 (next bet would be 3u; high of +6 so far)
DOZ3 = +25 (next bet would be 1u; high of +25 so far)
Dozen 3 was the hot dozen to be on!
There was a sleeping string of 11 L's in dozen 1 before a win; In dozen 2 there were 2 consecutive strings like this:
LLLLLW and LLLLLLLLLLW (they were worst encountered) whilst in dozen 3 the worst string was LLLLW.
Interestingly playing all four ways at the same time produced an overall profit of +14.
Given time I would have expected a reversal of fortune for doz 1 and 2 and the stakes were not too high at close of play.
So this is still going very well. :)
A.
Total loss of arse........
OK, they sent me $100 free. I got up to 299 and they bombarded me with offers.
Suddenly I could not buy a win. My 299 went to .5.
I think this is a great idea, but not at Prism casino.
Sam
I tried this with mode 4 this morning. Think i played it correctly.
I played on BVNZ real money.
Here are the Dozens as the came, if someone might have a look. i Got -39 units.
1
2
1
3
2
2
1
1
2
1
3
3
3
1
1
2
3
2
3
3
1
2
2
2
2
3
1
1
3
3
1
3
1
2
3
2
1
3
3
1
1
3
2
3
1
2
3
3
2
3
3
2
1
1
3
2
1
3
3
1
1
2
3
1
1
2
2
3
2
1
2
1
3
1
Oh and i played for a repeat of the last dozen.
Cheers.
Is there a way to revert this back to 2 dozens/columns using method 4?
I play only live dealer or live autowheel - no rng.
I would never play this on rng.
I think it played better with trigger systems and not betting every spin...
A.
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Feb 14, 02:04 PM 2013
Is there a way to revert this back to 2 dozens/columns using method 4?
Le_C,
I'll play around with it and see how it can be played with double dozens.
GLC
Hi Shogun,
1 start #
2 L
1 L
3 L
2 L
2 W -2 up to 2u
1 L
1 W +0 stay at 2u
2 L
1 L
3 L
3 W -4 up to 3u
3 W +2 reset
1 L
1 W +3 stay at 1u
2 L
3 L
2 L
3 L
3 W +1 up to 2u
1 L
2 L
2 W +1 stay at 2u
2 W +3 down to 1u
2 W +5 stay at 1u
3 L
1 L
1 W +5 stay at 1u
3 L
3 W +6 stay at 1u
1 L
3 L
1 L
2 L
3 L
2 L
1 L
3 L
3 W +0 up to 2u
1 L
1 W +2
3 L
2 L
3 L
1 L
2 L
3 L
3 W -2 up to 2u
2 L
3 L
3 W -2 stay at 2u
2 L
1 L
1 W -2 stay at 2u
3 L
2 L
1 L
3 L
3 W -6 up to 3u
1 L
1 W -3 stay at 3u
2 L
3 L
1 L
1 W -6 stay at 3u
2 L
2 W -3 stay at 3u
3 L
2 L
1 L
2 L
1 L
3 L
1 L -24
A.
This is what I mean; if we take shogun's numbers and not play every spin but instead operate a trigger (I use crossplay)
I will use JL's ZONE rules: wait for a doz to miss EXACTLY 4 times then bet it for 4 times max only...
Now I would only play real numbers but this worked Ok on the below Shogun numbers (if they were from rng.. I dunno...)
1
2
1
3
2
2
1
1 trigger to bet doz 3
2 L
1 L
3 W +0
3
3 trigger to bet doz 2
1 L
1 L
2 W +0
3
2
3 trigger to bet doz 1
3 L
1 W +1
2
2
2 trigger to bet doz 3
2 W +3
3 trigger to bet doz 1
1 W +5
1
3 trigger to bet doz 2
3 L
1 L
3 L
1 L +1
2
3
2
1
3
3
1 trigger to bet doz 2
1 L
3 L
2 W +1 up to 2
3
1
2
3
3
2 trigger to bet doz 1
3 L
3 L
2 L
1 W -1 stay at 2
1
3
2
1
3
3
1 trigger to bet doz 2
1 L
2 W +1 stay at 2
3
1
1
2
2 trigger to bet doz 3
3 W +5 reset to 1
2 trigger to bet doz 1
1 W +7 stay at 1
2
1 trigger to bet doz 3
3 W +9 stay at 1
1
+9 profit. Quite a difference I think you'll agree.
And there are many more such single doz systems out there you can try with the MODE 4 too.
A.
Quote from: Le_Chiffre on Feb 14, 02:04 PM 2013
Is there a way to revert this back to 2 dozens/columns using method 4?
Hi Le_Chiffre,
Dino posted an interesting 2 doz method some time ago:
Quote
Against Dominant Dozen or ADD for short.
I'm sure this concept is not new to all the hardened Matrix players out there.
This idea i have only just thought up and welcome any thoughts and questions.
Best way to describe for me is to show what happens in actual Game-Play using B+M Live-De
aler spins.
111
123 NB(DUE TO 111)
121 NB(DUE TO 123)
331 W1(BET AGAINST DOMINANT D1 IN ABOVE LINE)
111 W1(BET AGAINST DOMINANT D3 IN ABOVE LINE)
311 NB(DUE TO 111)
212 W1(BET AGAINST DOMINANT D1 IN ABOVE LINE)
213 W2(BET AGAINST DOMINANT D2 IN ABOVE LINE)
212 NB(DUE TO 213)
113 W1( BET AGAINST DOMINANT D2 IN ABOVE LINE) ETC.
221 W1
112 W1
333 W1
332 NB
312 W2
131 NB
322 W1
133 W1
211 W1
W1 = WON ON 1ST BET.
Something for the weekend sir !!
Regards.
Dino.
Hey Dino, how did this pan out. Do you still play it?
A.
Hi!
I have tryed these strings in a different way by using 2 ds instead of only 1 column or 1 dozen and with that have tryed to avoid a sleeping d or c.
I have played like this.
I always play the hottest ds and the ds that has been sleeping longest, but not if they are in the same docen.
DS
1 1 unit
2
3
4
5
6 1 unit
If a hit in lets say the 2 spin at Ds 6 i will play the next spin with bets on DS 6 and DS 4 because DS 6 is the hottest and Ds 4 is the longest sleeper that is not in the same docen as the hottest.
Now comes the string.
If the string is like this
LWWLLL i keep the bets the same
LLLLLW i raise the bets with 1unit
WWWLLL i decrease with 1 unit
and i keep on playing like this.
I have test it for a couple of hundreds spins and i haven't lost s far.
The latest 7 sessions .
351 spins + 201 units
Wins=116
Lossses=235
I have ones reach 4 units in progression.
I think a stoploss would be good.
This have worked pretty good so far, i will test this further.
Any thoughts?
Agesta
Here's something I worked out on the spur of the moment. I think it will work fairly well, but you should test it first.
Here's the chart. When I say Reset, I mean to start a new W/L line.
When we get down and then get back to even or plus, we reset back to 1 unit.
If we get close, you decide what close is, we can reset back down the bet line, but not necessarily all the way back to 1 unit on each dozen.
W = +1 This ends an attack. Reset at same bet size.
LWW = 0 This ends an attack. Reset at same bet size.
LWL = -3 This ends an attack. Reset and increase bet by 1 unit on each dozen.
LLWW = -2 This ends an attack. Reset and increase bet by 1 unit on each dozen.
LLWL = -5 This ends an attack. Reset and increase bet by 2 units on each dozen.
LLLWW = -4 This ends an attack. Reset and increase bet by 1 unit on each dozen.
LLLWL = -7 This ends an attack. Reset and increase bet by 2 units on each dozen.
LLLL...W = This ends an attack. Reset after 1st win and increase bet by 2 units on each dozen. Also, we can increase by more than 3 units if we have lost 6 or more times in a row.
It may prove to be too slow, but should help keep the bet sizes down and restrict losses.
Let us know what you think.
GLC
Quote from: agesta on Feb 14, 04:24 PM 2013
Hi!
I have tryed these strings in a different way by using 2 ds instead of only 1 column or 1 dozen and with that have tryed to avoid a sleeping d or c.
I have played like this.
I always play the hottest ds and the ds that has been sleeping longest, but not if they are in the same docen.
DS
1 1 unit
2
3
4
5
6 1 unit
If a hit in lets say the 2 spin at Ds 6 i will play the next spin with bets on DS 6 and DS 4 because DS 6 is the hottest and Ds 4 is the longest sleeper that is not in the same docen as the hottest.
Now comes the string.
If the string is like this
LWWLLL i keep the bets the same
LLLLLW i raise the bets with 1unit
WWWLLL i decrease with 1 unit
and i keep on playing like this.
I have test it for a couple of hundreds spins and i haven't lost s far.
The latest 7 sessions .
351 spins + 201 units
Wins=116
Lossses=235
I have ones reach 4 units in progression.
I think a stoploss would be good.
This have worked pretty good so far, i will test this further.
Any thoughts?
Agesta
Hi Agesta,
Thanks for posting this novel DS idea. I would imagine is very playable with the progression under discussion. What criteria do you base the "hottest" DS? The one that has hit the most in... how many spins exactly? Or are you just taking the most recent one to hit?
Thanks.
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Feb 16, 04:04 AM 2013
Hi Agesta,
Thanks for posting this novel DS idea. I would imagine is very playable with the progression under discussion. What criteria do you base the "hottest" DS? The one that has hit the most in... how many spins exactly? Or are you just taking the most recent one to hit?
Thanks.
A.
Hi Atlantis
These tests i have played the most recent hot DS, i think this will perform pretty good with some mild progreesion, i will keep on testing this with different progression and different choise of Ds and see that is the best way to play it.
Agesta
Hi,
I tested BW's "dozen warfare" single dozen method over the dublinbet 5200 real spins that someone posted and using the GLAT (GLC/Atlantis) progression. On the signal trigger I played for repeat dozen for max 3 spins only then if loss wait for virtual win and then restarted play from next qualifying trigger...
Quote
Dozen Warfare
Wait for 3 non-repeating dozens > 2,3,2 or 1,2,3 or 3,2,3
They must not have followed on from another run either > 3,3,2,1 doesn't count as the 3 is not unique.
3,3,2,1,3 does count however because the 2,1,3 are all unique and non-repeating.
A.
A positive result but you would need big chips to make it worthwhile.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: atlantis on Mar 01, 06:40 AM 2013
…using the GLAT (GLC/Atlantis) progression.
Hey, we should get Twocatsam, Wannawin, Atlantis, and Turner to collaborate on a system, and then we can call it TWAT!
and then you can sell it. everyone wants a twat system
Atlantis,
How difficult would it be to see how it would have performed had you not put a 3 loss limit on it?
Quote from: GLC on Mar 01, 01:01 PM 2013
Atlantis,
How difficult would it be to see how it would have performed had you not put a 3 loss limit on it?
Hi George,
I don't know - a stop playing limit is definately needed but I can tell you this - it might be worth playing for max of 4 spins instead of 3.... If you check it out you can see that a lot of "virtual wins" came on that 4th spin - exactly right after I stopped betting!!
Regards,
A.
so whats the latest mod?
Hi Marvin,
Using the GLAT progression rules and BW's "dozen warfare", I went through those DB numbers again this time betting max of 4 times on trigger and the result was +213 at the end of the 5200 spins... (+174 on previous attempt betting only 3 times)
The highest bet made on a dozen was 7units.
I know its not a massive test but sticking with controlled sessions and small profit targets and I think you could probably win regularly enough with this ;)
A.
Nice work A,
I think what we're seeing is the more losses accepted before a stop or the longer the progression before a stop (pretty much the same concept) the more we can win in most of our attacks.
Like you said, it's a small sample compared to what's possible and I'm sure there's a possibility of getting enough of the stops close enough together to balance everything out.
But, I do think this is one of the most stable systems we have to play the game with.
Each person will have to determine their own risk tolerance. I can see that if we chose 5 or 6 or even more losses in a row, we would do even better most of the time, but we'd have to have a larger bank. And, there will still be some rare, bad runs that will tax our grit.
But, if I'm going to play roulette, am willing to not bet every spin, have some time on my hands, can bet a reasonable unit size and want to have an extremely high probablility of winning each trip, this is one of the best candidates.
Of course we always have to remind our guests reading this that we should never gamble with money we can't afford to lose because no matter how good a system is, there's always the run from hell, no matter how rare, that can send us home with our tail between our legs; so to speak.
LOL,
GLC
In Uncle Sam's words:
Lets bot it!
Hi Guys,
if you define the rules - example - do we now play for 4 spins?
I will pay Stef to do the bot.
It will save us a lot of time testing.
I like this system :thumbsup:
great work atlantis :)
no worries as i am not really into million spin test :D
thanks!
OK. Thanks for your interest.
Just tested another single doz/col method (might also be candidate for bot too!)
These are the LW string results playing the first session of the HARVESTING THE TWELVES thread I posted in 2011.
See:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3378.msg30592#msg30592 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3378.msg30592#msg30592)
THREE spins per qualifier and instead of using the cyclic progressions I stick with the "trusty" GLAT (GLC/Atlantis) progression for single dozen/column:
w +2
w +4
lw +5
llw +5
w +7
w +9
llw +9
lllw +8 stay at 1
w +10
w +12
w +14
w +16
llw +16
w +18
llllllw +14 u to 2
llw +14
w +18 d to 1
lllw +17 stay at 1
w +19
llw +20
lw +21
w +23
w +25
lw +26
llllw +24 u to 2
lw +26 d to 1
lll.... no more spins.... +23 profit
A.
Another session of "Harvesting the Twelves" using GLAT
LW +1
W +3
W +5
LLW +5
LLLW +4 U TO 2
LLW +4
LLLW +2 U TO 3
W +8 D TO 1
W +10
W +12
W +14
LLLLLW +11 U TO 2
LW +13 STAY AT 2
LLLLW +9 U TO 3
LW +12 STAY AT 3
LLLLW +6 U TO 4
LW +10 STAY AT 4
LLW +10 STAY AT 4
W +18 D TO 1
L .... NO MORE SPINS.... +17 (IN 343 SPINS)
A.
Anybody else working a single doz/col method with this excellent GLAT progression? Can you think of any more doz strategies that may lend itself to this? Please give details and any results.
A.
Impressive work A.
Maybe we should call the progression the glAT.
I feel like my initial post has been dwarfed by all your improvements.
Looks like a very strong betting system.
Is it possible that a bet method can negate the house edge?
Not in the world the Wizard of Odds lives in!
Quote from: atlantis on Mar 06, 06:24 AM 2013
Anybody else working a single doz/col method with this excellent GLAT progression? Can you think of any more doz strategies that may lend itself to this? Please give details and any results.
A.
Hey A, try this one mate
Not dozens in 3 wide matrix. Only bet on rows that begin with two unique dozens
1 3
3 1
1 2
2 1
3 2
2 3
Ignore all others and if a double shows up then wait for the next row.
Once you have your trigger, then bet for the third unique in a row - you'll be surprised how often it wants to show.
Example
1 1 3 no bet
2 3 2 bet dozen1 and lost
3 3 1 no bet
1 2 3 bet dozen 3 and won
3 1 1 bet dozen 2 and lost
2 2 2 no bet
1 3 1 bet dozen 2 and lost
3 3 2 no bet
3 1 2 bet dozen 2 and won
BW
Hi BW,
I have tested this a bit Buff, and do not think it holds up as good as your "dozen warfare" which I think is more logical and ingenious being based on repeating dozens after a trigger and seems to get more regular W's...
Although comes out in profit in my test there were higher stakes required and the strikerate is not as good as the "dozen warfare" or "harvesting the twelves" and I personally would feel safer playing either of those instead.
Thanks,
A.
Yes on reflection, you're right - those two are right on the money. Maybe we don't need to tinker or search for other ways, but only test those two for thousands of spins. If only a coder could help
Have you had any negative sessions yet?
Hi BW,
Well I think your "dozen warfare" is probably better so I will test that over another 4000 DB spins file and post the result later.
Thanks,
A.
I wanna try this system with real money and see how that goes, but there's no reply in this thread for almost 2 months. What are the results atlantis?
Hi mudiru,
It's a good progression that will work well with a half-decent dozen strategy. If you can find such a one that will deliver a consistent strikerate then it is worth pursuing. Therein lies a quandary... Which single doz selection strategy out of all those that exist will give you this??
Solve that side of the equation and you're quids in!
:)
A.
It would be very positive that any member could encode this system and check it. In this case, in my opinion, it would not take bet selections or triguers, perhaps choosing a dozen and see what happens.
I don't belive too much in bet selections.
GM, Thanks for resurrecting this system. Wow! When I re-read the whole topic, I scratch my head and wonder exactly what happened that we just all of a sudden dropped this system? I can't for the life of me remember why I stopped using it. All I can come up with is that some other system must have been posted that caught everybody's attention and we all ran over to it. When it finally tanked, like they all seem to do, we had forgotten about this one. Short memory loss.
I didn't keep exact records, but I remember that I never lost a session playing to +10 units on my 25 cent airball machine. And I played a lot of sessions. At least 30. That's about +300 units.
Maybe the grinder factor put us all to sleep.
Atlantis, TCM, Buffalo, Warrior, guys did anyone have a streak from hell that scared you off this system?
GLC
Yes - it is interesting topic resurrected. :)
I still use basic GLAT progression, George; and can be applied when you come to try a promising single doz selection method.
Here is a session just now with real numbers tested thru RXtreme using a very simple selection criteria:
Simple one - bet the DBL (decision before last) - in other words the penultimate recorded dozen for each EACH SPIN.
Stop when in reasonable profit!
A.
It is not how much you win but how little you lose. That philosophy produces winners. Go positive and never chase losses.
Quote from: GLC on Aug 22, 10:28 PM 2014
GM, Thanks for resurrecting this system. Wow! When I re-read the whole topic, I scratch my head and wonder exactly what happened that we just all of a sudden dropped this system? I can't for the life of me remember why I stopped using it. All I can come up with is that some other system must have been posted that caught everybody's attention and we all ran over to it. When it finally tanked, like they all seem to do, we had forgotten about this one. Short memory loss.
I didn't keep exact records, but I remember that I never lost a session playing to +10 units on my 25 cent airball machine. And I played a lot of sessions. At least 30. That's about +300 units.
Maybe the grinder factor put us all to sleep.
Atlantis, TCM, Buffalo, Warrior, guys did anyone have a streak from hell that scared you off this system?
GLC
Hi GLC
What version of this system did you use to obtain this results?
thanks!
I use the progression detailed in reply #60.
For a bet selection I use what I call a roaming method. I use 3 selection systems that are very easy. 1) Play for the last hit dozen to repeat. 2) Play for the farthest back dozen to hit. 3) Play for the penultimate dozen to hit.
I check the last 5 results. Which ever method would have won the most times, that's the one I use for the next bet. If the results are 2, 2 & 1, I check the last 6 results to determine the dominant selection method. If I get 2 of each, I go back 1 more result. You will never have to go back more than 7 results to have a dominant selection method. As a matter of fact, you can use the last 7 results and be done with it. Although, I find that 2,2 and 2 aren't that common.
This may seem a bit confusing, but with practice, it's really fairly easy. This method catches a dominant method. It also jumps off an old dominant and onto a new dominant quickly. The killer is when they're switching back and forth with no dominant emerging for long enough to get some wins.
I know there's no mathematical reason for it to work and I'm not saying it's infallible. It's been working for me is all I can say.
I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say to be sure and test this selection method before risking real money on it. But, just in case a new convert is reading, I had to say it.
Take note of Greenie Meanie's comment. It can happen.
GLC