consider a 9 numbers negative progression:
1 1 1 2 2 3 4 5 6 8 11 16 22 (13-step)
what if we repeat each step once? then progression would look like this
1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 8 8 11 11 16 16 22 22 (26-steps)
Now how would this work? play this one, (this can be applied to any ordinary progression, repeat each step once..) and for each win go back one step (from the original progression)...
i've tested playing this progression and it works just fine... better than an ordinary negative progression that is...cheers
i tested this progression idea with a double dozen bet:
1 1 3 3 9 9 27 27
play this one, AND stay on the same level until recovered, then reset. works perfect!...
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 31, 02:30 AM 2013
same level until recovered, then reset. works perfect!...
Isn't that flat betting the first level then?
yes. first level 1 1. after a doubleloss 3 3.....after another doubleloss 9 9,.. and so on until recovered. i played myself easily up to profits with this progression, it works, haven't failed so far. :)
So Marty but play each step 2 times?
Seems like it could still get scary at times. I'll try it 10% lower with 0.10 stakes and see how it goes.
with Doubel 2 : 1 bets - 1,3,9,27 or 1,1, 3, 3, 9, 9, 27, 27 the bets should actually be written twice because you are betting that amount.
1,3,9,27 or 1,1, 3, 3, 9, 9, 27, 27 & the total outlays underneath.
2,6,18,54 or 2,2, 6, 6, 18,18, 54, 54
Running totals 2,8, 26,80 or 2,4,10,16,34,52, 106,160
You can't escape the odds of double dozen betting in that you only win 50% of your total outlay. So effectively on every bet you potentially lose twice as much as you win. I call the standard triple up 1,3,9,27 betting "Super Marty" betting (that's a carry over from someone elses double doz. description on a forum years back, so not my original idea).
The Marty triple up bet amounts escalate so quickly that multiple back to back losses usually puts you bust or mauls your BR rather badly.
The repeat bet amount THEN triple, up means you win even less then than your 50% of outlays & so requires even more wins to just break even & more again to be in profit.
I'm testing "Super Marty" dozens betting currently. So far with a stop loss @ L2 & virtual "V" betting until a win, off live dealer spins from prevoius plays (this stops a run of back to back losses but doesn't stop a switchback loss result of Win on the "V" & a Loss on the money bet. As in L3. WL, L4. WL & bust). I've never had a loss &
rarely ever get to L4.
What I did for my prepick directed numbers was to put them in a circle as 1,2,3. Then moving anticlockwise (no particular reason) I got the groupings 3,1 - 2,3 & to even up the numbers 1,2. For bet sheet neatness I ID each bet set as A, (3,1) B, (2,3) or C (1,2).
To further randomise things I then make 9 bet line repeating groupings rotated as A, B ,C ,B, C, A, C, A, B. For me the stop loss "V"bet, so far, seems to be the answer rather than extending the betting as modified flat bets or some other extended bet idea as it only increases the number of wins VS losses needed to make a profit.
As with any Marty bet, only 1 win is required to be in profit & reset back to the L1 minimum bet.
As I've already said tests have all been positive so far. In about 1 1/2 weeks, (when I flick my oh so slow mobile broadband), I'm going onto unlimited high speed Wi Fi broadband. I'll then be playing on line at Live Dealer Party Casino.
I hope some of you guys will test this soon & post/comment on the results you get.
yes it works good. I've played myself up to 600u with 5u bet @ paddypower just now. Only I remain at the same bet until recovered. (after 2 losses, next step), also i play wirth the same statical bet...reset when recovered. This is how i play. I have reached the last step and beyond, I never tried to recover at level 2 or level 3 in your example....don't know if stoploss would help? That would be stop after 2 losses (next step after a virtual win)
I consider game over if 1 1 3 3 9 9 27 27- progression fails...stoploss and wingoal must be used.
cheers
Just to clarify the "V" bet a little better, I make it active after a L2 loss. To win it needs back to back wins. I.E. a "V" win followed by a money bet win. Say that happens at L3 betting then after the win betting resets to L1.
Where the "V" bet shines is a run of losses that would usually wipe out continuous Triple Up Super Marty betting. E.G. L1 & Loss, L2 & Loss "V" bet activates. Because the losses stay @ L2 in the following example it keeps you "still in the game" rather than crash & burn.
L3 "V" bet & Loss, L3 "V" bet & Loss, L3 "V"bet & Loss, L3 "V" & Loss, L3 "V" bet & loss - Then "V"bet & Win, L3 money bet & win. Then reset to L1 bet. As already mentioned the bet method can't deal with switch back outcomes & so loses.
Every bet including "V" bets consumes one of the 9 preset bet lines. The continuing randomness of the ever changing dozens prepicks usually means that the casinos randomness can't avoid your randomness. Therefore a match = a win.
A Zero drop will always lose unless you add in to your bet progression some kind of Zero Insurance bet. Say at L3 & L4 but wear the loss/risk for L1 & L2.
ignatus - I was just finishing my post when yours came through. Always good to win. Put up your Paddypower spins that got you to 600 & I'll demo my method on here with them.
Are you playing Live Dealer or RNG ? I always play live dealer but for this exercise a demo is a demo.
randomize the bet is a good idea, perhaps-- still it won't protect you from losses,. hm im not sure it would make any difference from a statical bet? only thing as i said stoploss after 2 losses in a row might help...i just tested this progression on RNG...anyway
Ignatus - Are you saying you've tested my 9 repeating (twin dozen) prepick bets with stop loss & "V" bets after a L2 loss ? If so put your results up on here.
If not put your PaddyPower numbers up for me to test & I'll show the results on here.
I can't provide you with any numbers. If you had any good results let us know.
How do you manage your bets ? If you can't provide the numbers ?
So far I've tested 3 different live dealer Party Casino sessions off part of my plays (EC betting) from last month = 108 bet lines = 12 modules of 9 presets.
108 bet lines @ 1 bet/min = about 1hr 50 mins of play for each session.
The strike rate for each session is around 67%. Off a 4 level progression all in *GBPounds* starting at L1. 5, L2. 15, L3. 45, L4. 135. Totals for 1 doz = 200 x 2 = 400 for dbl dozens & min BR req'd.
Winning amounts were around 360 av. for each session. L2 "V" bets kicked in often. L4. max. was reached a few times but never lost. Maybe luck ?
So far it looks positive. Further Independent testing worthwhile.
ausguy can you explain what you're doing exactly. I read your earlier post but don't understand. thanks in advance
le_chiffre - sure I'll try to make it easy to understand.
1st we take 9 bet lines. This forms 1 set. The 9 bet lines are all made up of prepicked double dozens that I'll explain shortly. The next sets are just repeats of the 1st 9 line set. So occupy lines 1 - 9, 10 - 18, 19 - 27 & so on. I make up a master bet sheet with the bet lines numbered + the prepicks are written in. With that done I can copy any number of bet sheets I need.
For the prepick dozens I wrote them down as they are on the bet layout 1,2,3. I then drew those numbers onto a circle. I decided to go anti clockwise ( no real reason) to get sets of 3 dbl dozens.
1st up I got 2 sets of doz = 3 & 1(later order changed to 1,3 but still no difference to bet outcome), then 2 & 3. Then for the 3rd set & to even the numbers to 2 for each dozen I inserted 1 & 2. For neatness and less clutter on my bet sheet I then ID'd the prepicks to A. 1 - 3, B. 2 - 3 & C. 1 - 2.
I did some small earlier tests, which meant a 3 line repeating pattern & found that the results went from fair to below average & bust on a L4 triple up Marty.
The tests amounts went L1 5/5, L2 15/15, L3 45/45, L4 135/135 = min. BR 400. This replicates play at Party Casino in GBP. Bets can be lower as the Min. is 2 GBP per any outside bet. Amazingly the max. limit of 2,000 is the same for ECs & 2 : 1's.
Then I said that well known "what if".That's when I decided to further mix up the randomness by rotating the ABC in order & that then got me the 9 bet lines = A,B,C,B,C,A,C,A,B.
I retested the same previous small tests & got excellent results with strike rates in the 78% to 65% range & nil losses. I further lowered the loss risk by bringing in a stoploss "V" virtual bet after a L2 loss (keeping in mind we top out at L4). This stops a string of BR busting back to back losses. As I've already said it doesnt stop switch back losses = wins on the "V" bets & losses on the money bets. So far in tests I've got to L4 but always won, so far ! Luck maybe, time will tell ? I suppose with a fatter BR a person could go to L5 but that's an extra 810 (405 on each dozen) ? It's a case of how far/much do you want spend to win just 5 quid ?
Then there's the option of a Zero insurance bet at L3 & L4. That's another calculation set where basically the zero bet amount is also added to both the precalc'd dbl dozen triple up to avoid the below std 50% return. On a loss it's a bit more but if a doz. wins the added extras cancel each other out. If zero drops then that bet usually more than covers the doz bet amounts so a win & rtn to L1 betting.
So it's that A,B,C,B,C,A,C,A,B representing 9 dbl dozen prepicks that gets written down the bet lines to form a set. That combination of 9 letters is just repeated again & again every 9 lines to form a series of repeating sets.
Test betting shows that with more randomness added my revised 9 prepicks & 24/37 numbers covered allows increased matching of the casinos randomness = more wins.
Add in the stop loss safety net and it forms a tough opponent for the casino to beat.
If I could program things (which I can't, never learnt) it would make testing a breeze. I'm not sure how the stop loss "V" bets could be programmed to interact with the betting ?
Meanwhile I'll con't manual testing with a view for real money play in about 1 1/2 weeks when I get my high speed broadband & flick my slow mobile PC broadband.
This progression will kill in a little bad time and the losses are irrecoverable. Why are you guys getting progressions from Stone age?
Try to make a progression that doesn't kill in any momentary streak of losses but get you opportunity for recovery, if things go a little normal later.
Kingsroulette - It's the stop losses combined with an ever changing randomness of dbl dozens that has tipped the scales in my favour with tests to date, so far all losses have been recovered.
The "V" virtual bet becomes active after the 2nd straight loss = @ L2 & so prevents further streaks of losses or as you put it.... "momentary streak of losses but get you the opportunity for recovery, if things go a little normal later".
The "V" bet needs 2 back to back wins to profit. The only killer is switch back losses, as I've already said a number of times, where you get a win on the "V" bet which triggers the next money bet. @ L3 & Loss, then repeats the same again @ L4 = BUST.
My stop loss strategy replaces the need for other progressions that require more than 1 win to make a profit. What's better one hit to profit or many hits to total a profit ?
It all boils down to strike rates. EG 10 winning hits are much more likely than 20 winning hits.
Also remember the dbl dozens are continually changing at each bet line = lots of randomness.
I suggest you at least test the method before you make comments like......."progressions from the stone age".
A mini test (at least 36 bet lines in groups of 9) by you won't consume too much of your time ? All the details I've already posted so fairly straight forward. Use any Live dealer spins of your choosing. Feel free to do multi tests using spin data from different sessions.
Then come back on here & reveal your results, should you so wish.
This can be compared to a new food you've never tasted before, don't say you don't like it until you've tasted it.
Quote from: ausguy on Dec 31, 01:26 PM 2013
le_chiffre - sure I'll try to make it easy to understand.
1st we take 9 bet lines. This forms 1 set. The 9 bet lines are all made up of prepicked double dozens that I'll explain shortly. The next sets are just repeats of the 1st 9 line set. So occupy lines 1 - 9, 10 - 18, 19 - 27 & so on. I make up a master bet sheet with the bet lines numbered + the prepicks are written in. With that done I can copy any number of bet sheets I need.
For the prepick dozens I wrote them down as they are on the bet layout 1,2,3. I then drew those numbers onto a circle. I decided to go anti clockwise ( no real reason) to get sets of 3 dbl dozens.
1st up I got 2 sets of doz = 3 & 1(later order changed to 1,3 but still no difference to bet outcome), then 2 & 3. Then for the 3rd set & to even the numbers to 2 for each dozen I inserted 1 & 2. For neatness and less clutter on my bet sheet I then ID'd the prepicks to A. 1 - 3, B. 2 - 3 & C. 1 - 2.
I did some small earlier tests, which meant a 3 line repeating pattern & found that the results went from fair to below average & bust on a L4 triple up Marty.
The tests amounts went L1 5/5, L2 15/15, L3 45/45, L4 135/135 = min. BR 400. This replicates play at Party Casino in GBP. Bets can be lower as the Min. is 2 GBP per any outside bet. Amazingly the max. limit of 2,000 is the same for ECs & 2 : 1's.
Then I said that well known "what if".That's when I decided to further mix up the randomness by rotating the ABC in order & that then got me the 9 bet lines = A,B,C,B,C,A,C,A,B.
I retested the same previous small tests & got excellent results with strike rates in the 78% to 65% range & nil losses. I further lowered the loss risk by bringing in a stoploss "V" virtual bet after a L2 loss (keeping in mind we top out at L4). This stops a string of BR busting back to back losses. As I've already said it doesn't stop switch back losses = wins on the "V" bets & losses on the money bets. So far in tests I've got to L4 but always won, so far ! Luck maybe, time will tell ? I suppose with a fatter BR a person could go to L5 but that's an extra 810 (405 on each dozen) ? It's a case of how far/much do you want spend to win just 5 quid ?
Then there's the option of a Zero insurance bet at L3 & L4. That's another calculation set where basically the zero bet amount is also added to both the precalc'd dbl dozen triple up to avoid the below std 50% return. On a loss it's a bit more but if a doz. wins the added extras cancel each other out. If zero drops then that bet usually more than covers the doz bet amounts so a win & rtn to L1 betting.
So it's that A,B,C,B,C,A,C,A,B representing 9 dbl dozen prepicks that gets written down the bet lines to form a set. That combination of 9 letters is just repeated again & again every 9 lines to form a series of repeating sets.
Test betting shows that with more randomness added my revised 9 prepicks & 24/37 numbers covered allows increased matching of the casinos randomness = more wins.
Add in the stop-loss safety net and it forms a tough opponent for the casino to beat.
If I could program things (which I can't, never learnt) it would make testing a breeze. I'm not sure how the stop-loss "V" bets could be programmed to interact with the betting ?
Meanwhile I'll con't manual testing with a view for real money play in about 1 1/2 weeks when I get my high speed broadband & flick my slow mobile PC broadband.
Thanks for the reply ausguy, still don't really get it im afraid. Maybe I drank too much over the Christmas/New Year period and now my brain's gone lol
Le_Chiffre - I'm sure your brains ok - Pehaps only temporarily in festive season mode ?
The easiest way to understand everything would be for you to set up a mini bet sheet on a piece of paper (easier if it already is lined horizontally, otherwise if it's a blank sheet you'll have to rule them in yourself). In total you will have 4 columns of various widths. On the left side, near the page edge, write down the page in ordered numbers 1 - 18. Like any bet sheet these will represent your bet lines. Shortly you will rule a line across all the columns at line 9. This will then accommodate 2 sets of 9 prepicks already documented in previous posts. A liitle more on that shortly
To the right of those 18 numbers draw your 1st vertical column line (10 or 12mm is usually enough). Then make another column 10 or 12mm again for your spin write ups. The next column is wider @ about 35mm wide. This will have the prepicks written in plus room for your "as directed" as you go bet write ups. Just 1 more column 15 mm wide is for profit & loss (I write up as +/-). On my bet sheets each column has headers = No.(for you 1 -18), then Spins, then Prepick & bets & finally +/-.
With that done rule an under line across the column at line 9 (the line is just for this demo to remind you where the set ends & a new one starts, (it doesn't affect play at all as one prepick just follows another) In the prepick & bets (widest) column close to the left vert. line write A,B,C,B,C,A,C,A,B in that order to line 9 & then repeat the same for lines 10 to 18. Now for ease of following write next to each letter the dbl. dozens No's as chosen & previously posted & explained + again shown below.
A. = 1 & 3, B. = 2 & 3, C = 1 & 2. Just match ONE of those 3 next to the relevant letter = A, B, or C. You must/should end up with 6 of each different type of dbl dozen combo's in the 18 bet lines.
With that done you are almost set to start betting. The progression is over 4 levels. Start with units @ L1 as 1, L2. as 3, L3. as 9, L4. as 27 & the SAME FOR EACH DOZEN.
Remember if you get a L2 loss, the 1st "V"bet kicks in.(already well explained in other posts). Remember every money bet or "V" bet takes up a bet line. You keep "V" betting until a win, which triggers your next L3 money bet. Lose that then the "V" bet thing repeats seeking a trigger for a L4 "last throw of the dice" $$ bet.
The "V" bet & L2 loss level is flexible. In that you could tighten up on the losses by "V" betting after a L1 loss or stretching it out to a L3 loss ?
You may even choose to not to have a "V" bet at all. My testing so far shows that the "V" saves a lot of LLLL wipe outs that's why I use it. Plus I think it's a viable alternative to flat/shallow progression/divisor betting that generally have a low total profit to spins strike rate.
As I've previously said, like any MARTY it only needs 1 win for profit & than a reset back to L1 betting.
For your betting grab yourself some spin results preferably LIVE DEALER as that's where I play it & away you go. You can stop @ line 18 or extend your bet sheet as far as you like. I always keep to module sets of 9.
For any zero drop that's a loss, depending on the level it hits at, it may or may not have a "V' bet. Zero insurance bet options have also been covered in earlier posts.
I hope you can test a little bit with this LE_Chiffre? Explaining it is like that Pictures = 1,000 words saying. Once you set it out it really mostly explains itself.
Cheers - Ausguy.