are these devil numbers 0,19,21,25,8,10,5,7,and 28 from an old topic 666on VLS.
Forget the devil numbers bit,just look at those 9 numbers.
2,4,5,10,11,21,23,26,32,36 these 10 numbers from chaotic.
The above sets of numbers could have been randomly picked, but are a known sets from historic posts.
The above 9 numbers longest seen take to come in is 31 spins on rng, the 10 numbers on rng 21 spins.
Know can take that long to come in from data saved, so know is true.
Would Maths say the avg to come in is 31 spins for the devil numbers and 21 for numbers from chaotic, or would formula say should come in before 31 and 21 spins or god forbid even longer.
nottophammer, are you saying the longest gap recorded for the 9 numbers is 31 spins and for the 10 numbers is 21?
There's probably a mismatch as #5 and #10 are common to both groups.
No disrespect Nottophamer...but I liken it to seeing poodles and Winston Churchil in the shape of the clouds.
They are just clouds
They are just numbers
Roulette is just a random numbers device that uses physics.
As for the devil remember 2000 years ago on a cross...
Quote from: psimoes on Dec 27, 08:47 AM 2014
nottophammer, are you saying the longest gap recorded for the 9 numbers is 31 spins and for the 10 numbers is 21?
There's probably a mismatch as #5 and #10 are common to both groups.
Hi P Simoes
yes longest seen from records i have. Just wondering what maths would say 9 numbers could miss for, same for 10
Quote from: Turner on Dec 27, 09:11 AM 2014
No disrespect Nottophamer...but I liken it to seeing poodles and Winston Churchil in the shape of the clouds.
They are just clouds
They are just numbers
yes but lots of players pick groups of numbers would be interesting to see maths answer
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 27, 09:17 AM 2014
Roulette is just a random numbers device that uses physics.
As for the devil remember 2000 years ago on a cross...
Proof only made them numbers up as the wheel is the devil added, but played em and see them take 31 spins oh yes all on rng
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 27, 07:13 AM 2014
are these devil numbers 0,19,21,25,8,10,5,7,and 28 from an old topic 666on VLS.
Forget the devil numbers bit,just look at those 9 numbers.
2,4,5,10,11,21,23,26,32,36 these 10 numbers from chaotic.
The above sets of numbers could have been randomly picked, but are a known sets from historic posts.
The above 9 numbers longest seen take to come in is 31 spins on rng, the 10 numbers on rng 21 spins.
Know can take that long to come in from data saved, so know is true.
Would Maths say the avg to come in is 31 spins for the devil numbers and 21 for numbers from chaotic, or would formula say should come in before 31 and 21 spins or god forbid even longer.
sorry looked at wrong column the 9 numbers should say 23 spins on rng
okay Turner you've helped out before on formulas
so perhaps i should have asked how long 9 random picked numbers would be expected to take to come in, same for 10.
if an answer comes cheers NTH
that's a wrong approach bud.
they may sleep for very very long time, you can very likely chose such sleepers. Or they may hit just the next spin after you bet. On average randomly picked numbers, no matter what, would get you breaking even if not the house edge. But because of the house edge you will lose its percentage. But that's not all yet. There are couple more factors. One is that if you with your regular play chose some numbers and some miss, you will see missing numbers come up very often. It's hard to understand this paradox in roulette, but that's how it works. It hits in your "weak spots". And another factor is that very likely choosing random numbers will not be random for you at all.
If you chose them yourself from your head. Because human being is tended to go by patterns even that he may think it is random what he does. And roulette kills any patterns. So because of those 2 factors on a long run you will very likely lose much more than just house edge percentage.
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 27, 10:04 AM 2014
If you chose them yourself from your head. Because human being is tended to go by patterns even that he may think it is random what he does. And roulette kills any patterns.
This makes sense. But then another crazy paradox emerges when the wheel is spun by a human. If said human has good psychomotor coordination, no matter how hard he/she tries to act random there will be patterns. More neurons to burn about this.
Quote from: psimoes on Dec 27, 10:54 AM 2014
This makes sense. But then another crazy paradox emerges when the wheel is spun by a human. If said human has good psychomotor coordination, no matter how hard he/she tries to act random there will be patterns. More neurons to burn about this.
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 27, 10:04 AM 2014
that's a wrong approach bud.
they may sleep for very very long time, you can very likely chose such sleepers. Or they may hit just the next spin after you bet. On average randomly picked numbers, no matter what, would get you breaking even if not the house edge. But because of the house edge you will lose its percentage. But that's not all yet. There are couple more factors. One is that if you with your regular play chose some numbers and some miss, you will see missing numbers come up very often. It's hard to understand this paradox in roulette, but that's how it works. It hits in your "weak spots". And another factor is that very likely choosing random numbers will not be random for you at all.
If you chose them yourself from your head. Because human being is tended to go by patterns even that he may think it is random what he does. And roulette kills any patterns. So because of those 2 factors on a long run you will very likely lose much more than just house edge percentage.
yes one might pick random set of numbers first time but like iggiv says you'll end up picking same numbers over a period of time,so not random in the end,
like wise for Psimoes a human being is a creature of habit, so whats to say the old groupier doesn't drift in to auto mode for a few spins,then realises and changes the footprint.
this goes through a mechanical device with too many variables used. Even if a human uses exactly the same strength and the wheel is turning exactly even all the time, still the result won't be in patterns. Well, maybe sometimes, but not predominantly. If it was like you say playing golf would be easy and everyone would be a champion. Tiger Woods would be just one of many. Mechanical interference messes up everything. I am talking about patterns in human head. Your head does not know at what strength you throw the ball. You just throw. But let's say you smoke some kind of cigarettes, you got used to the same brand usually. You drive a car every day on the same route, but one day you have to change it, and it may happen that you forget and automatically try to drive the way you used to.
Because this pattern is IN YOUR HEAD. But if you throw a ball to a basket at some distance, there is no way you will get it there all the time unless you are a skillful basketball player. Very few can be champions. So my guess is that very few are also capable of throwing the ball into the roulette wheel by exact patterns. There are some maybe, but very few.
Quote from: psimoes on Dec 27, 10:54 AM 2014
This makes sense. But then another crazy paradox emerges when the wheel is spun by a human. If said human has good psychomotor coordination, no matter how hard he/she tries to act random there will be patterns. More neurons to burn about this.
let's take this scenario. A dealer has to put the ball into wheel pockets. He does not throw it, he puts where he likes. The wheel is not even turning. The dealer is honest. He wants to put the ball into random pockets. Just like roulette wheel is working. He does not care about the bets, just puts it somewhere. Like random. Sooner or later such dealer patterns will be cracked and many people will know
where he most likely will put the ball. Even that he will try to get numbers as random as possible.
but because a wheel is spinning and he throws the ball, clear patterns are not there.
Well, just extrapolating. If A -> B -> C where A and B are constants then C is constant too. If A and/or B are variables, then C is variable too. If A=Tiger Woods and B=No Wind then C=Ball In the Hole. Likewise if A=Human Pattern and B=Dominant Diamonds then C=Dealer Sig. No?
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 27, 12:34 PM 2014
but because a wheel is spinning and he throws the ball, clear patterns are not there.
If the wheel spins and the ball is thrown at constant INITIAL velocity there will be patterns.
edited - sorry
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 27, 12:01 PM 2014
like wise for Psimoes a human being is a creature of habit, so whats to say the old groupier doesn't drift in to auto mode for a few spins,then realises and changes the footprint.
nottophammer,
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15055.msg127797#msg127797 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15055.msg127797#msg127797)
maybe in the ideal world. Where human can control his muscle work and wheel and ball speed like a robot. But that's just plain impossible.
Quote from: psimoes on Dec 27, 12:55 PM 2014
If the wheel spins and the ball is thrown at constant INITIAL velocity there will be patterns.
edited - sorry
nottophamer
The maths is simply the expected average over many spins, which is around once in every 4 spins for both 9 and 10 numbers
It doesnt help you in the short term, as you know, its an average
I seem to remember a dozen can sleep 40+ times, so 9 or 10 could sleep 60 -70?
I wouldnt work it out as its not worth knowing. I just know it can sleep a long time.
okay we've got some replies, so is it worth knowing the avg of when backing 9 numbers is likely to hit,like turner says 4 spins, but if you know its longest avg from your personal records says 23, is it safe to say wait for 4 spins and then go for it
you don't understand Hammer.
there is no DUE. If average did not hit it does not mean it's gonna hit sooner. It may mean it will hit now and it may mean this group is going for long sleep.
What you are trying to do is to fall into gambler fallacy again. I am tired already of giving this link from wiki. Find yourself what gambler fallacy means. It's exactly what you think. That if average did not hit it's gonna hit sooner. It is not. You think nobody tried it before you? You think i did not experiment with it? It's a way to nowhere, believe me bud. Cold numbers don't work!
What you can try occasionally though is looking for a trend. For example chose a group of numbers which hit recently then slept for short period then hit again. Not exactly like i say. But mostly they hit but that does not mean that you have to bet all the last numbers hit. You can try this too but very carefully. Dont repeat your patterns try to change them. While catching trends. For example don't
stop just on 9 numbers. Make different bets. And better more than just 9. Try with a few bets to cover all the wheel, not just 9 numbers which may go to sleep. And don't play for too long cause randomness will kill all your bet selections.
@ Hammer
Have you ever thought that due to the fact that a normal live roulette wheel can spit virtually any combination
of spins out, in fact, nothing is ever due ?
O0
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 27, 05:05 PM 2014
okay we've got some replies, so is it worth knowing the avg of when backing 9 numbers is likely to hit,like turner says 4 spins, but if you know its longest avg from your personal records says 23, is it safe to say wait for 4 spins and then go for it
Can I burst your bubble and say. Even with the numbers I will give you there is no such word as "DUE"
Safest time to bet a 9 or 10 number sleeping sector is waiting minimum 15 to 17 spins.
That also is not a 100% either.
You asking for 9 to 10 numbers scattered all over the wheel...
for tomorrow off up the wooden hill
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13 angela now
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not good -£216.00 for £1.00 chips
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 27, 06:53 PM 2014
for tomorrow off up the wooden hill
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not good -£216.00 for £1.00 chips
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 27, 05:22 PM 2014
you don't understand Hammer.
there is no DUE. If average did not hit it does not mean it's gonna hit sooner. It may mean it will hit now and it may mean this group is going for long sleep.
What you are trying to do is to fall into gambler fallacy again. I am tired already of giving this link from wiki. Find yourself what gambler fallacy means. It's exactly what you think. That if average did not hit it's gonna hit sooner. It is not. You think nobody tried it before you? You think i did not experiment with it? It's a way to nowhere, believe me bud. Cold numbers don't work!
What you can try occasionally though is looking for a trend. For example chose a group of numbers which hit recently then slept for short period then hit again. Not exactly like i say. But mostly they hit but that does not mean that you have to bet all the last numbers hit. You can try this too but very carefully. Dont repeat your patterns try to change them. While catching trends. For example don't
stop just on 9 numbers. Make different bets. And better more than just 9. Try with a few bets to cover all the wheel, not just 9 numbers which may go to sleep. And don't play for too long cause randomness will kill all your bet selections.
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 27, 05:38 PM 2014
@ Hammer
Have you ever thought that due to the fact that a normal live roulette wheel can spit virtually any combination
of spins out, in fact, nothing is ever due ?
O0
i'll lay it out like preacher iggiv. DUE.
Theres 37 buses in the garage. We all know what its like waiting for the number 11 bus, never comes on time ,but he's due.
Just like the 11th number to be scrubbed out of our 37 numbers, hes DUE.
In the above 60 spins we're going to cross of the 37 numbers as they come, like our number 11 bus,he's due because we start with 37 and know one is due.
Well our first 10 spins or waiting for the ten buses to show we can see that 9 have turned up, we got 2,31's turn up,typical.
In our wait for the next 10 spins (busses to come) we see bus 6 turns up again, wheres that 11,hes not due because we're waiting for bus number 10 whos over due, 2 more buses come but ther've already been, sowheres number 10,hold up buses 6and 30 leave wheres number 10 hes DUE, here he comes bus number 12. So now we've scrubbed 10 of the 37,how long for number 11 to be scrubbed.
Well if you kept a record you'd have an idea, well hammers time table says you might wait for 5 buses. Look our 11th number took three turns and Hammer knows he can bet that as max stake being a £100.00, he starts with .20pence units and can cover three chances in this came of chance because hes got the time table for the buses. Now with the clever time table you can see when a bus is DUE, but we know busses dont always run on time, like numbers going of our 37 numbered mat but we can see we've crossed of 11 now. Look time table says bus 12 or the 12th number to get crossed out can take 7 spins, how does hammer know this, well its down to keeping records and over time an avg appears, but its not gospel preacher Iggiv, buses dont run on schedule as our Preacher and DD O0 know.
But our 12th number or bus arrived,so Iggiv and DD ask Hammer when bus 13 coming, well you might wait for six from my past experiance of waiting for busses, well he came in 2spins.
But Hammer knows a time table will always be open to change but avg gives a good idea of what to come, Hammers time table could be like falkor book on ds/s if he can run all the spins, because like Hammers time table some clever person could track this idea, but over millions of spins you'd get an avg for each number you want to cross out.
And as you can see the next 3 busses came on time 1 spin each, but
d'you like my story BUD
Quote from: iggiv on Dec 27, 02:45 PM 2014
maybe in the ideal world. Where human can control his muscle work and wheel and ball speed like a robot. But that's just plain impossible.
More like an ideal airball machine. That's why they change ball, air pressure and rotation speed.
But "just plain impossible" for humans IT ISN'T. They don't change dealers for coffee breaks.
To avoid the inevitable...
- IT IS!
- IT IS NOT!
- IT IS!
- IT IS NOT!
... shall we agree to disagree?
The irritating bit about the "nothing is due" is that it serves both ways. Sleepers are a no-no because no number is due to hit, and hot numbers aren't guaranteed to keep hitting at some expected pace as well. Both situations cancel each other out.
However, the Law of Large Numbers, Regression Towards the Mean etc teach us the opposite. Shouldn't we say "Nothing is Due In the Short Term" instead? Just wondering...
I'm yet to discover a method based solely on Math and Statistics that wins constantly. After calculating the odds and managing the bank correctly, if we take AP out of the picture I'm afraid GF is all we have left.
Notto'
Buses have a timetable....random numbers dont.
Buses leave the garage and leave a gap....random numbers dont
Its not bingo.
Every number has the same odds to come out...36:1
There is no such thing as Bus 11 is due to come out, because it has time.
People have lost fortunes trying to wait and not take another bus.
Like I said, you will have to wait minimum 15 to 17 spins and not 4 like you said.
That also has no assurance that your bus will come.
Good Luck with this.
nottophammer,
I have a quick question for you... Ok...
We are going to wait 4 to 5 spins for 9 to 10 numbers..
How many spins will you wait for 17 numbers? Average for 17 numbers is 2 to 3 spins?
Notto
Imagine a supercasino. The biggest in the world. It has 37 wheels
You go to table 1 and note a spin, say 13
You go to table 2 and note a spin, say 22
You go to table 3 and note a spin, say 6
..
..
..
You go to table 36 and note the spin, say 33
You go to table 37 and note the spin, say 3
when you look at your 37 spins from 37 tables, you would have around 24 hit and 13 not hit.
wheels have no memory. They dont know what is hit and what is due. Any 37 random numbers from anywhere will fit the Normal distribution curve
If you play 1 table for 12 spins, then go for lunch. You play 12 more spins and go home. You come back the next week, and play 13 more spins, the 37 spins will fit the normal distribution curve (on fair wheels)
Each number has the same chance of hitting, i.e.36:1
but they only pay 35:1 keeping a house edge of 2.7%
So how does that fit in with this thread?
Well, after collecting your 37 spins from 37 tables, the 13 that didnt hit have the same chance of hitting as the 24 that did.
or....the 24 that hit have no less chance of hitting than the 13 that didnt.
The 13 are not due in any way
turner
i'm not playing just a random 26 numbers or 10 numbers.
Turn up at table or in my case touch screen in betting shop, have clip board one pic of mat NO numbers crossed OFF.
So have 10 spins and if no repeat theres 27 to cross of, i'll play for another 50 spins. Now each game of 60 spins is add to excel,
if the 27 numbers miss for 6 i have a new avg or what you experts want to call it.
Quote from: Azim on Dec 28, 04:56 AM 2014
nottophammer,
I have a quick question for you... Ok...
We are going to wait 4 to 5 spins for 9 to 10 numbers..
How many spins will you wait for 17 numbers? Average for 17 numbers is 2 to 3 spins?
I could wait for 11 as only 6 chances to bet on touch screen in betting shop as max bet is £100.00
the avg you say Azim is a math answer? to come in. the longest i've seen to come in is 17 spins and the avg spin to come in is 2.41
the point is knowing avg 2/3 spins is not alot of good if goes 17, so knowing the avg is not a lot of help so do we disagree with avg or go with it
NOT SAYING YOU ARE A SCAM.
BUT THIS LINK WAS A SCAM AT THAT TIME:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=8929.30 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=8929.30)
Read it. If you guys remember Winkel said his Idea getting sold , here it is.
He has been waiting for 33 spins and his result was the Andruchi process.
Noto: What makes you think this will work now?
On another note "LuckoftheIrish" had done a nice analysis on on about 2.2 million numbers and came to the conclusion that it tanked out on him.
I knew and know even 17 numbers is hard, I didn't believe the numbers LuckoftheIrish produced.
I tried it my self last week, I have a tester for this. If you guys want it, I can give it to you.
You will see it will go past 4 or 5 spins were bets get huge.
Yes Sometimes you get a hit on the first spin.
Here is the link to the numbers produced by LuckOftheIrish.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=7121.msg65672#msg65672 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=7121.msg65672#msg65672)
Once again not saying you are out to scam. Saying the link before LuckOfthe Irish was the advanced Andruchi.
This has all been looked into.
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 27, 07:13 AM 2014
are these devil numbers 0,19,21,25,8,10,5,7,and 28 from an old topic 666on VLS.
Forget the devil numbers bit,just look at those 9 numbers.
2,4,5,10,11,21,23,26,32,36 these 10 numbers from chaotic.
The above sets of numbers could have been randomly picked, but are a known sets from historic posts.
The above 9 numbers longest seen take to come in is 31 spins on rng, the 10 numbers on rng 21 spins.
Know can take that long to come in from data saved, so know is true.
Would Maths say the avg to come in is 31 spins for the devil numbers and 21 for numbers from chaotic, or would formula say should come in before 31 and 21 spins or god forbid even longer.
Scam dont know what you mean, R,B,LOL
This topic went of the rails in my opinion, all i was asking is why 9 random numbers took 31 spins to come in. why did the 10 numbers that to me are not random as i started with a pic of the mat with no numbers crossed out, proceeded to play the usual 60 spins, crossing out each number off the mat as it hits, eventually theres 10 numbers left to hit,and seen it take 21 spins to hit, all game play records show never gone 22 spins on rng. down below 711 games of spread sheet showing spins
for the 10 numbers to hit, of 711 games 222 came in on 1st spin, 153 came in on 2nd spin. I can bet these 10 with progression
for 13 spins in betting shop with max bet of £100.00, starting with .20pence units 1,1,1,2,3,4,5,10,15,20,25,35,50
As you can see 375 games won with just 2 spins, SO CAN WE USE AVG
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1
1
1
8
1
3
1
1
1
2
2
1
4
4
4
2
8
1
4
1
3
8
1
3
11
7
2
2
2
9
2
1
5
1
5
2
1
4
5
1
8
1
4
1
6
2
7
1
2
3
4
1
3
1
2
2
1
2
1
4
3
1
1
2
6
4
15
1
1
1
4
9
2
2
4
4
1
3
2
3
2
1
2
2
1
9
1
1
7
2
2
6
2
13
2
3
1
8
28
2476 total spins
3.482419128 avg of spins
711 games
7?
8
21 max to come in
9
9
222 1st spin
153 2nd spin
86
56
53
36
33
20
12
9
10
5
6 13th spin and last of progression
3
1
1
1
1
1
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
HERES THE GAME WITH THE 21 SPINS
GG-9 1 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 3 5 4 21 16
gg-9 IS 9 NUMBERS IN 1ST 10 SPINS AND AVG (USUALLY ) SAYS WILL GET 15 .7423221 NUMBERS IN 30 SPINS.
HERE WE GET 16 IN THE 30 SPINS, 10TH NUMBER WENT STRAIGHT IN. THE 4 IS THE 27TH NUMBER OF THE 37