Does anybody have knowledge about where are Forum's most experienced members?
Are they active somewhere else? Did all of them leave a (Forum's) ship?
Some of them still post a little bit, but other are silent...
MrJ, GLC, Atlantis, Ego, Colbster, Kattila, Winkel, Chrisbis, BuffaloWizard, Superman, Ewarwoowar, TheLaw, 6th-Sence, Hermes, Maestro, Warrior, Fripper, Twisteruk, Sogget, Gizmotron, Malcop, UglyBob, DDarko, Spin4Fun, A3on, Agesta, Stepkevh, Marivo, Le_Chiffre, MrOre, Ophis, Skakus, XXVV, Robeenhuut, SamNL, ScoobyDoo, Denzie, Chris555, Amk, Still, GARNabby, AlbertoJonas, Drazen, Azim, Dane...
Just a thought.
I think the best idea, is to keep this post up and hope some of them or all see it......just doing that! after all experience is what new players like us need ;)
They lost everything like all heavy gamblers. :'(
I don't agreee that they lost everything....; May be they are very busy making
a boat load of $ day in day out; and that they have no more time or are uninterested in
posting for whatever reasons.
In my particular case, I'm still milking Mr Casino day in day out :)
Quote from: Chris555p on Feb 01, 03:44 AM 2016
I don't agreee that they lost everything....; May be they are very busy making
a boat load of $ day in day out; and that they have no more time or are uninterested in
posting for whatever reasons.
In my particular case, I'm still milking Mr Casino day in day out :)
Perhaps you don't want to reveal your method. But what kind of betselection are you using? Dozen, doubledozen, straight up's -if so how many and so on? What kind of method you're playing ? hotnumbers, coldnumbers etc, progression or flatbet?
@ Chris555p
Thanks for coming out to us.
Would be nice if all of you "Old Guard" take some time and say few wise words!
After tens of thousands of posts, after years of analyzing...
Quote from: ignatus on Feb 01, 04:50 AM 2016
Perhaps you don't want to reveal your method. But what kind of betselection are you using? Dozen, doubledozen, straight up's -if so how many and so on? What kind of method you're playing ? hotnumbers, coldnumbers etc, progression or flatbet?
Seconded!
As a newbie to roulette any help from you experienced guys/gals would be very much appreciated - the idea of this forum is to share systems and strategies to achieve our individual goals - be it just for fun, as a challenge or to bring in a little extra cash to help the family with the bills and a few little extras in life.
Thanks
Nick
I happen to like chris555p
But dont waste ur time asking him to share his method. He won't.
Sharing a method of success against the casinos?
As the saying goes: Does Macys tell Gimbels ?
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 01, 07:55 AM 2016
I happen to like chris555p
But dont waste ur time asking him to share his method. He won't.
Thanks for the heads up RG - I don't know Chris555p so I won't make a personal judgement against them, however the human psyche never ceases to amaze me, I just don't understand the mentality of anyone making such a crude statement!
What is to be gained by an individual taking the time to log onto the forum and type out a message starting a thread that says look at me I'm making money, unless they are either lying or showing off!
Very sad in this day and age - life is too short IMHO!
Nick
Quote from: Nick-the-Greek on Feb 01, 08:33 AM 2016
Thanks for the heads up RG - I don't know Chris555p so I won't make a personal judgement against them, however the human psyche never ceases to amaze me, I just don't understand the mentality of anyone making such a crude statement!
What is to be gained by an individual taking the time to log onto the forum and type out a message starting a thread that says look at me I'm making money, unless they are either lying or showing off!
Very sad in this day and age - life is too short IMHO!
Nick
Its the internet. Who knows
I share everything. Thats just me
Just because I will never share my method with everyone, in view of the fact that some
members are extremely negative; It does not mean I do not share my method with noone....
I'm very selective with whom I share.
In relation to Ignatus's question: I play double dozens or 5 DS. My bet selection is based on
the fact that it is almost impossible for the dealer to repeat the exact same pattern 3 or 4 times
in a row.....This opinion is based upon testing thousands of spins over several months.
Once u knows what these patterns are, u can then consider the casino being like a safe being left
open for smart guys to help themselves with any time, any day.
Quote from: Chris555p on Feb 01, 09:24 AM 2016
In relation to Ignatus's question: I play double dozens or 5 DS. My bet selection is based on
the fact that it is almost impossible for the dealer to repeat the exact same pattern 3 or 4 times
in a row.....This opinion is based upon testing thousands of spins over several months.
Once u knows what these patterns are, u can then consider the casino being like a safe being left
open for smart guys to help themselves with any time, any day.
Yes!!
:thumbsup:
RG - Yes, it is a bit like one of the latest method u posted regarding double dozen;
But looking at it from a slightly different angle.
Just like it is impossible for a woman to give birth to 3 or 4 kids exactly on same date,
same day, same month, same year, same hours, same minute, same second.....; It
is impossible for the dealer to repeat certain pattern 3 or 4 times in a row....
particularly when we are betting 2 double dozens or 5 DS.
Amk made a method
Take last 4 dozens to show. Bet against the opposite
Same principle
Works 99 percent of the time
Thank you for your update Chris555p - that is exactly what I feel this forum is for - share, share and share again.
Responding members then share further input/tweaks and MM so that a strategy or system fits into their style of play, be it online, B&M or dare I say it RNG (which I've heard some contributors swear by on here!)
Dozens is a favourite of mine with a personalised version of the Grassroots 123 strategy working well for me at the moment (using the 00 wheel which I would have never considered if it hadn't been suggested by RG) together with an EC method nick-named 'Nice Little Earner' - thank you Brian.
Nick
Thanks for your reply chris.
No problem guys; From my experience the best way to beat the wheel is to be able to identify
unusual, uncommon patterns and bet the dealer will not be able to repeat the exact same pattern
3 or 4 times in a row by using soft progression. Forget ec's.
As I was mentioned, I'm here nearly every day. My businesses keep me busy but I definitely check in regularly. I don't think that I have as much to offer as I have to learn from others. As a Mod, I tend to read things briefly just to make sure people are playing nice. In terms of systems, I have my personal favorite ideas that I have mentioned in earlier threads. I don't feel the need to defend or sell my ideas, although I do enjoy discussing them with people who IM me about specific topics. If I have something to share, I do. If not, I try to not tie up the efforts of people by having them waste time reading my bad ideas. I would rather they spend their efforts on new ideas or ideas that have particular validity.
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 01, 01:01 AM 2016
MrJ, GLC, Atlantis, Ego, Colbster, Kattila, Winkel, Chrisbis, BuffaloWizard, Superman, Ewarwoowar, TheLaw, 6th-Sence, Hermes, Maestro, Warrior, Fripper, Twisteruk, Sogget, Gizmotron, Malcop, UglyBob, DDarko, Spin4Fun, A3on, Agesta, Stepkevh, Marivo, Le_Chiffre, MrOre, Ophis, Skakus, XXVV, Robeenhuut, SamNL, ScoobyDoo, Denzie, Chris555, Amk, Still, GARNabby, AlbertoJonas, Drazen, Azim, Dane...
Just a thought.
Damn, I've been around so long that I've been forgotten. Laughs.
:lol: Maybe that's a good thing
Ed
Your the greatest and most outspoken and certainly the most underpaid Roulette System Designer I know....
Buffster
I know a bit, and I often try to help. But most people just want the easy 2-second system that wins millions.
In truth Roulette can be profitable, but it is hard work and unless you are playing with a $10,000
bank with $100 chips (and willing to accept occasional losing streaks) it is not worth the time or effort.
There are minimum wage jobs that pay more with a guaranteed income than the work involved imo.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Feb 01, 11:38 PM 2016
In truth Roulette can be profitable, but it is hard work and unless you are playing with a $10,000
bank with $100 chips (and willing to accept occasional losing streaks) it is not worth the time or effort.
There are minimum wage jobs that pay more with a guaranteed income than the work involved imo.
I am tired of telling people to stop wasting time searching for the HOLY GRAIL.
The HOLY GRAIL has been on the forum for over 4-5 years now. How ever , as Steve has mentioned people want to became rich overnight. That will never happen playing roulette. You have a better chance of playing the lottery and becoming rich overnight.
I will totally agree with the fact people don't want to work hard. However I will disagree with the part of requiring a $10,000 Bankroll.
I play everyday on an air ball machine and make around $350.00 to $400.00 dollars. I use a negative progression and I also play with 0.25c chip value. I also go in with $150.00 Bankroll per session.
Anyways for me not posting on the forum: I have done my job. Every member has been told to go study GUT. I am proud of NOTTOPHAMMER to actually study GUT and understand how to read the trout based on the current outcome. As you can see from his postings you can easily make money off Roulette if you have 2 things.
1) understanding of the numbers
2) Having faith in yourself in making the right call. Yes you might fail at times But hard work and not repeating your mistakes will take you way ahead.
I have been able to write a bot to beat poker and roulette so far and I have now moved on to try and beat Black Jack with a bot.
Reality is roulette is easy to beat in ideal conditions, but very difficult if not impossible in the wrong conditions.
It all starts with suitable wheel selection. If you do it right, you'll easily earn more than a 9-5 job and in much less time. But it can still be a frustrating and tedious profession and is not for everyone. You need patience. But still 9-5 for peanuts is a much worse option. Who wants to work 8 hrs for about $200 then have the tax man steal half to pay bankers? Really, no thanks.
Btw, we do it for freedom. Not money. That's why i created :.yourway.org.au and :.landsharing.org
if everything was so simple...
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 01, 09:38 AM 2016
Amk made a method
Take last 4 dozens to show. Bet against the opposite
Same principle
Works 99 percent of the time
It won't work because the odds of the next dozen haven't changed. Read my recent article.
Quote from: TurboGenius on Feb 01, 10:02 PM 2016
Damn, I've been around so long that I've been forgotten. Laughs.
Well who could forget Turbo?! Respect!
I wasn't sure about whom to mention as not all were active on
this Forum.
Anyway I wanted to say that I apologize to all Great participants that should be on this list.
I wasn't digging deep, just writing names that come to my mind...
Thanks all of you to make this Forum a
Must read place.
Quote from: Steve on Feb 01, 10:55 PM 2016
most people just want the easy 2-second system that wins millions.
And there you have the answer to the original question
I still play ideas I posted that no one took any intetest in apart from a few old boys. One in particular
The newer crew are indeed blinded by the 2 second millionairre idea.
100 pages on a simple idea as old as the hills.
No one listens and I will bore you once again with my favorite quote
Good judgement comes from experience
Experience comes from bad judgement
Quote from: Turner on Feb 02, 03:41 AM 2016
The newer crew are indeed blinded by the 2 second millionairre idea.
100 pages on a simple idea as old as the hills.
Those 100 pages did made me find a very very stable bet selection. And as P.A. said...wait variance and then go in. I'm been doing that the last weeks without any bust.
I track 3 tables at once and it takes me up to 3-4-5 hours . But I make 10-20 units on a daily basis.
And all thx to those 100 pages of brainstorming.
Beating roulette is doable. ....very stable bet selection vs patience vs mm vs positive progression or flat vs variance avoidance
How can you avoid variance? It is just a statistical occurence. You have no way of predicting it. If anyone has information to suggest otherwise, please share.
I not need to predict that. We all know it's coming. (No I don't know when. I'm just waiting for it). But the more stable our bet selection the less wide that variance swings.
Of course an occasional bust will happen. That's where our mm comes into place.
Even if you bet 30 numbers, you wont have changed variance or odds. All youd be doing is making 30 separate bets, each with their own variance.
I think what he means is what priyanka says
Roulette is random but it has limits
If we test a strategy for a long time and its lowest is -10 we can wait virtually for that -10 and go in flat bet secure the unit or 2 and leave
Its has bearing
I know what you are saying steve but theres other ways to beat the game then betting only 2 to 4 numbers and or using a computer. Or at least not lose very much.
My idea of variance
The dozen formation 123123 will occur maybe once every 300 spins. Thats rather rare
So if you wait for a 123123 then bet against it occuring again you can beat the game using the wheel against itself......
For that matter any unique will do. 123123. 132132. 213213. 231231. 312312. 321321.
I agree with what's being said above concerning variance. Furthermore, even if we loose from time to time
and we have LLLW; It does not really matter coz the profits we would have made during the winning
sessions, will easily offset the LLLW.
Reading today about how Denzie make profit.
I'm thinking of such selection, we remain of the traditional EC bets.
We know that the average unbalance in 100 spins is 10 EC, let say 55red / 45 black.
We know that in the worst case we have 65/35.
Therefore, waiting for unbalance 20 EC bets in first 90 spins, do we have any edge in Longrun?
When we begin to reach -20 bets, at start betting to balance, the target profit of 5 unit, lose the limit is -5 unit, statistically we should have more sessions which will aim to balance, than the extreme sessions.
Is my reasoning is completely wrong?
Ozon...I wouldn't use the EC. I did b4 .But your idea is correct. We don't know when variance hit. But we know it will. We also know from years of results what to expect.
So the only thing we can do is wait. Once they pass then go in. Yep, we can lose. But we win more sessions then we lose. And go in flat or positive progression.
Thx to the grassroots I've found a very stable selection. There I wait a virtual -10 and jump in. Cuz of all my testing that busted I was 10 units short to get back and actually win. So that's why I track multiple tables cuz it takes longer
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 02, 07:21 AM 2016
My idea of variance
The dozen formation 123123 will occur maybe once every 300 spins. Thats rather rare
So if you wait for a 123123 then bet against it occuring again you can beat the game using the wheel against itself......
For that matter any unique will do. 123123. 132132. 213213. 231231. 312312. 321321.
Basically that's just wrong. You don't speak of variance
You are talking about betting with expectation.
Once it happens it will conform like a good pattern and pop up in 300 spins
Variance is against expectation....so you wait for 123123 and it happens again....then again 5 spins later
It can.
It's just up against all the other combinations that arnt 123123.
That's why you refer to it as rare.
Over millions of spins...yes it averages out to a once in x spins...but it's not a bus. It doesn't have a timetable..
The gap between 123123 happening could be 5 10 4 38 120 1
It all evens out long term but you have absolutely no idea how it will distribute its self
It's rare in another world. The world of 20million spins but not in your world of 300
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 02, 07:21 AM 2016
My idea of variance
The dozen formation 123123 will occur maybe once every 300 spins. Thats rather rare
So if you wait for a 123123 then bet against it occuring again you can beat the game using the wheel against itself......
For that matter any unique will do. 123123. 132132. 213213. 231231. 312312. 321321.
RG, how does one go about betting against 123123? I assume that means if you get 123122 or 123121 you'll have succeeded and be in profit?
The odds of 123123 are the same as 132132 or 111111 or 222222 etc. Waiting for one or another as a trigger does nothing. See :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ its all explained there.
Quote from: Steve on Feb 02, 04:26 PM 2016
The odds of 123123 are the same as 132132 or 111111 or 222222 etc. Waiting for one or another as a trigger does nothing. See :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ its all explained there.
About a 0.1% chance of any specific sequence of 6 dozens occuring I think.
The only way to bet against a sequence is using martingale, which definitely isn't practical for betting against a sequence of 6 dozens, and in any case one would still end up losing more than winning. Some here can't see that though.
All this is way off topic, sorry OP.
The martingale wont help either. Consider two players:
Player 1: Waits for 123123 then bets 1
Player 2: Waits for 123123 then bets 2
Who's more likely to win?? They have exactly the same chance.
Now consider two other players:
Player 3: Doubles bets after losses when betting RED
Player 4: Doubles bets after losses but with random red and black
Who has the better chance of winning? Again it's exactly the same.
I have software that checks for random sequences of RB or any other sequence, so know for sure if the odds change after a sequence. And for the exceptions relating to wheel physics like bias, there is no change in odds. So the software can check for a sequence like RBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRB and see if the next spins are RB to see if the odds are higher than it being BB or RR. There is no difference at all. I will be releasing this software free eventually but wanted to add a mod to it first.
These are fundamental facts about any gambling game that really need to be understood.
Quote from: Turner on Feb 02, 02:00 PM 2016
Basically that's just wrong. You don't speak of variance
You are talking about betting with expectation.
Once it happens it will conform like a good pattern and pop up in 300 spins
Variance is against expectation....so you wait for 123123 and it happens again....then again 5 spins later
It can.
It's just up against all the other combinations that arnt 123123.
That's why you refer to it as rare.
Over millions of spins...yes it averages out to a once in x spins...but it's not a bus. It doesn't have a timetable..
The gap between 123123 happening could be 5 10 4 38 120 1
It all evens out long term but you have absolutely no idea how it will distribute its self
It's rare in another world. The world of 20million spins but not in your world of 300
not only do i agree with you, but i have said that myself
if you chose to bet against 213213, you may not see it happen at all, or you may see that sequence right away, or it may take 300 spins
im just talking expectation and average
123123 happens very seldom. HOWEVER it can happen 123123 then 20 minutes later see 123123 again, chances are very slim though....in roulette anything can happen
ive never seen 123123 myself in live play, id assume i could wait hundreds of spins before seeing it
but the way i see it is if i wait for a 123123 to happen and then i bet against 123, chances are im gonna win, because the wheel wont keep spitting out fixed patterns
Quote from: Tacwell on Feb 02, 03:41 PM 2016
RG, how does one go about betting against 123123? I assume that means if you get 123122 or 123121 you'll have succeeded and be in profit?
if using a marty yes you would win that sequence
your example of 123122
lets assume 123 shows, so we say to ourselves hey, 123 just occured, chances are it wont occur again, so you bet against 123, then 122 happens. we win on step 3, 3rd step of progression
to risky though, as we KNOW 123 can repeat. so marty is not a good idea
but if you have the bankroll and its money to spare then have at it, who am i or anyone to judge how you bet or your progression, gambling is gambling
the only time i would use marty (in a non hit and run style) would be to wait for a unique pattern to repeat, and then bet against it with a 139. if i was at a table and i saw 123123 i would then bet against 123 using a 1 3 9 progression. call me stupid, but 1 in a million chance to lose
Quote from: Steve on Feb 02, 07:01 AM 2016
Even if you bet 30 numbers, you wont have changed variance or odds. All youd be doing is making 30 separate bets, each with their own variance.
1000000% correct.
Ken
Quote from: Steve on Feb 01, 10:55 PM 2016
I know a bit, and I often try to help. But most people just want the easy 2-second system that wins millions.
So we have Turner, myself, Steve, Buffster & Turbo all chiming in and TRYING to explain things
to the "I have a holy grail" crew. What do you notice regarding this group of 5? Anything?
Ken
Veterans?
Top blokes?
Quote from: Steve on Feb 02, 11:54 PM 2016
Top blokes?
I wonder between us 5, the combined number of years with roulette? (lol) I would guess, its more than your newest 30 members put together.
Ken
I started at 17 when my local casino opened. Back then I had a fake ID to get in. I'm 39 now. So that's over 20 years, and literally I've been working on it almost every day. I love the game but there are still other more important things.
We'll just say 20 years. I think you would agree, over the 20 years, you have ELIMINATED (for the most part) what does NOT work? Why would a person with 3 years experience (roulette) not listen to a 20 year veteran of the game? That question simply kills me. Its like a 15 year old thinking he/she knows it all (lol). Oh well, like I said, I lose nothing.
Ken
Ken that's true with anything in life, not just roulette of course. The problem is UNDERSTANDING. You know 20 years ago, I wouldnt have listened to some guy preach to me about what could and couldnt be done. I wanted to do it all for myself. If I actually understood it all back then, I wouldnt bother betting with a system I know would eventually lose.
Everyone's different. Some people will listen and at least try to understand what more experienced people are harping on about. It is frustrating when people just ignore facts, but i need to remember I was much the same.
But then again people have different goals. If you want to make money, you know roulette is not the easiest way to go. It is remarkably easy if you have good conditions, but very different in difficult conditions. If you just want to have fun, then dabble with systems. But FFS at least try something that is not PROVEN to fail. There are plenty of things that havent been tried. And probably more things that HAVE been tried.
Yeah, I didn't listen either, I understand. Take any example though....you want to start a hobby of collecting stamps. Are you gonna listen to the guy doing it for 5 years or the guy with 30 years experience? Not saying the 5 year guy is a dummy, I'm not saying that at all.
Ken
It doesn't take years of experience to understand value and apply simple logic to see why any bet selection won't work. Any bet in roulette has a negative expected value, you get paid out less than what your bet is worth, it has been explained in many different ways, some are unable to comprehend that, others maybe choose to ignore it, I don't know.
Would you choose to back a horse at odds on which you know in reality only stands a 2/1 chance of winning? If you did back this horse and repetitively placed bets like this would you be surprised that your bank roll keeps diminishing? It's the same thing with roulette, or any negative expectation game. You won't win in the long run.
And to add to the above, the variance debate, variance doesn't correct itself, if in the first 10 spins after you sit down you, you see 8 red and 2 black, that's 80% Red, if the next 90 spins show 45 red and 45 black, i.e. perfectly even, then over the last 100 spins red is now only 8% ahead, continue up to 1000 spins and red is now 0.8% ahead, without black ever exceeding red to "even out" the variance. Nothing is ever due.
You're right. Actually it takes minutes to understand the principles with at least basic understanding. But it takes much longer to get over the ignorance that made me blind.
I disagree with mr j and steve on this
While yes it is correct that betting 30 numbers is 30 independent bets with own variance the roulette wheel still has limits
If you wait for an extreme then go in to bet you have better chances
Hypothetically speaking : say dozen 123 321 231 sequence was only observed twice in 100 thousand spins, and then you happen to see 123 321 the next day then you should know to bet against 231
It is random but theres limits. Just like a color wont streak over 30 times
I don't think turbo, buff, or mr Js method are any different then some others. Its still gambling and can still lose. Mind you lots of turbos methods are similar to others here..and thats not an insult at all. Im just saying roulette is roulette. .....and we are all playing it.....
If you saw 25 reds in a row would you not start betting black? We know the answer
Since I was mentioned ( I am honored to be amongst the best in your list ), I will reply.
I have a habit to take time away from the wheel to clear my head. I stop thinking about roulette, systems, progressions, and then suddenly the good stuff comes to mind. I then come back and see things with "fresh eyes". I see things that I have missed, understand what I did not and so on. Lot's of "ooooohhhh thats what he meant" moments, hope you get what I mean.
I am still here, learning after 5+ years.
What I see now is what was said while I was a newbie - same old same old. Ideas that have been tried and still come up because everybody wants it easy, a system to make 10000 a day with 100 BR.
I believe most older members don't respond anymore cause they are tired with explaining things over and over. I feel them. Its just how most of us humans are, we want it all here and now. A person with 2 days of roulette experience will come and present a moneymaker - bet on red and double till win. You will tell him it is not good and after some time he will realize you were right. Now he demands you give him your system or the HG, you say no, argue, etc. He leaves, stays, doesn't matter because tomorrow another comes and its rinse and repeat.
Well that is maybe not a good example but just to get a good idea about how it is.
RouletteGhost - 123 123 xxx - xxx can be 123 the same way it can be 111 it does not matter, the ball doesn't know if it lands in dozen 1 or 2, the chances are the same. Couple of years ago I did something similar, I took a 10 spin sequence of R/B and bet against it happening right next - so that spins 11-20 would not be the same as 1-10 (don't know the odds but they should be similar as your example). Guess what happened next? On my very first test I got the same sequence to repeat... I was shocked, disappointed but I learned from it.
The thing is, you need to learn from your own mistakes - that is the only way.
And the older members mean well, they want to stop you from making the same mistakes as they did (how many people tried roulette with the double up system first - like 90% of us).
But not everybody can take critic, and most have to go through it to see for themselves.
Anyway, not to go too much off topic.
I am alive and well :xd:
Still reading up, still learning from the "veterans", still testing, still playing...
Still having ooohhh moments even now (rarer and rarer but still).
Currently on my "to do" list is GUT, I am reading it again (for the fourth time I think) and ti's starting to make sense a little, but the first few times it didn't, I couldn't understand anything. Proof that with experience, time, you get to see differently, you grow. As will you all. I have looked back on systems that i tried when I was new, that I tested and now I can only laugh, I wouldn't bother with them now. But I learned from them and I grew.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Everybody have a beer and let's all work toghether :thumbsup:
If anyone can show evidence of a marquee showing dozen formation 123123123 i will digress
Exactly the ball doesnt know where it landed. Its very hard for the wheel to spit out fixed pattern like 123123123 or 221221221
We can capitalize on it. Better then betting blindly
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 03, 08:44 AM 2016
If anyone can show evidence of a marquee showing dozen formation 123123123 i will digress
Exactly the ball doesnt know where it landed. Its very hard for the wheel to spit out fixed pattern like 123123123 or 221221221
We can capitalize on it. Better then betting blindly
What is the difference between 123123123 and 322231121? there is none. What we call a "pattern" is just how our brain works, 123123 is a pattern but 213323 is not - and that is wrong. It is the same thing and it has the same chance of showing. You maybe wont see it today or tomorrow but next week you will hit it 10 times and bust.
If a dozen can sleep for 30+ spins then it has the same chance of going 1212121212121212121... for 30+spins as it has 2323232323232323... and 1313131313131...
That is something you have to learn, not only you. And it doesn't matter if it's dozens, EC, streets... it is all the same.
I understand
So
123211 just occurred
Will it happen again right after as
123211123211? It can but unlikely
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 03, 09:18 AM 2016
I understand
So
123211 just occurred
Will it happen again right after as
123211123211? It can but unlikely
it is likely to appear as any other combination - that is what I am trying to tell you. The odds are the same.
You asked if we see 25 reds won't we back black? Ask the guy that saw 34 reds that question. I believe it was Albalaha or Ego (can't remember) that said they saw over 40 in a row.
A 100 Reds in a row has the same chance of hitting as 100 Black or RBRBRBR... or what ever comes, you are not getting an edge by waiting - that is the point.
I know you can't see it now but you will. There was a time when I didn't see it either.
But that are extremes, I will try to explain it easier. lets simplify, not taking zero in account for ease of example
you wait for 123123 and then you bet against 123 right?
now, not to mention the time spent waiting and getting 123122 and such. All betting opportunities you will have will be after 123123 - correct?
so you would bet max three times after that pattern with the 139 marty, ok.
All possible outcomes are
123123 and
2 - win
3 - win
11 - win
13 - win
121 - win
122 - win
123 - lose
you have 6 wins per 1 loss
the same thing if u would have not waited and bet against 123 from the start.
do you see now?
Maybe I suck at explaining, maybe language barrier but I am trying to save you money
I know exactly what you are saying
Im saying we can bet against those extremes
If we saw an extreme like 25 blacks i would do something i normally wouldnt. Marty on red.
Btw i enjoy your post's
Respect to all of You, that find time and good will to give us few (or more) words of wisdom.
Somehow you are like old philosophers which should be read and quoted.
Somehow like parents (of the Forum), that will sometimes give a helping hand even if we don't deserve it.
Thank you. This is the List of Legends (sounds sentimental, as it should be):
@ Chris555p
@ TurboGenius
@ Azim
@ Sogget
@ Colbster
@ Turner
@ Iggiv
@ MrJ
@ GLC
@ TwoCatSam
@ Proofreaders2000
@ Ignatus
@
I would like to invite everyone from the old times, even if I forgot to put them on the first Invitation list.
Please, come in and say Hello, tell us something from your experience!
Mods, I would like to keep updated this list in future, if possible, as Members are coming on the scene!
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 03, 12:29 PM 2016
Somehow you are like old philosophers which should be read and quoted.
Somehow like parents (of the Forum), that will sometimes give a helping hand even if we don't deserve it.
The only problem with that, in some cases - is that newer people have ideas and post them, then someone like me (or others) reply back with their own experiences and facts.. but the new person won't take that advice. It's hard to listen to someone else telling you that you are wrong (lol).
I remember one of my biggest "rivals" at GG in the old days was Mark (a few others also) - and as I showed up posting my ideas they would point out what was wrong with it.
I didn't want to listen to what they said, I was sure that I was right - somehow.
Like my "basics that no one wants to hear" thread - basically the same thing.
Those are facts of the game, but we could go all day arguing about it, and it won't matter to someone who swears they are right. :) And I used to be that way also.
It takes a long time to get to the point where things are clearer - maybe it's just a road that people have to take.
Also - seeing the same kinds of methods over and over through time is tough.
Most of what people are posting/coming up with today has been done before - in some cases
many times. (There's only so many ways to do the same thing).
You can go back to the old GG forum archives and read - you'll see everything that's being posted today (but this was over a decade ago). So people can always use the past data as a reference for learning before they jump on a topic and post it (thinking that it's something they just thought up).
I think I'm old enough now to see it like a parent (lol) - You can tell your kid something, they won't listen - they think they're right, eventually they find out that you were right. It's a process that has to happen I suppose.
Thanks for the kind words.
When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around.
But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.
I used the wrong analogy lol.
Math and facts don't change due to someone age, experience, etc.
It's always what it is. Math is something that can't be argued over and is the foundation of
this game.
So it's either that someone can learn from experience (or the experience of others) or they can learn on their own... The end result is the same
"Teaching an old dog new tricks" doesn't apply in this case.
Quote from: soggett on Feb 03, 09:46 AM 2016
it is likely to appear as any other combination - that is what I am trying to tell you. The odds are the same.
...
But that are extremes, I will try to explain it easier. lets simplify, not taking zero in account for ease of example
This is true. 123123123 showing up is the exact same odds and probability as 12312312X where X is 1,2 or 3 equally. (past spins can't be used in a game like this).
As for the 0 or 0 and 00 - Big difference when it comes to working this out.
It's those zeros that come into play and kill a method like this.
Simpler to explain without using them, but the math completely changes and makes it worse for the player as well.
So Turbo, what do you think, is Gutway the only way?
What would you recommend to some of us willing to earn serious money (still thinking it is possible), from Roulette and ready to learn whatever it takes (although short in time).
What to read from this Forum, who's posts will help most?
Just your opinion, how would you start if you were starting today?
Thanks
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 04, 09:21 AM 2016
So Turbo, what do you think, is Gutway the only way?
What would you recommend to some of us willing to earn serious money (still thinking it is possible), from Roulette and ready to learn whatever it takes (although short in time).
What to read from this Forum, who's posts will help most?
Just your opinion, how would you start if you were starting today?
Thanks
That's a good question. If I were starting out today - knowing everything that I do now...
My first thought would be to avoid systems/methods all together. (Not because they are bad or
can't work, I'm not anti-systems at all).
I would certainly explore Dealer Signature more. I always thought it was a meaningless way
to approach the game. I can dig up my old posts from GG and other places where I pointed out
how it was simply impossible... A wheel spinning one way, the ball spinning the other way - the bounce and scatter - all these telling me how impossible it was that this could be a legitimate way to predict winning numbers. (laughs.)
I was wrong of course and had to do my own research - I have to admit that I was shocked.
It's not even difficult to do.
I would also spend much of my time playing a system or two (or three).
It would have to not go against any of my "rules" - past spins, triggers, start points-stop points, negative progression, etc. Which would narrow it down to playing numbers on the table
and adding to the winners while removing the ones that don't show up.
The way to win of course is to play the numbers that show up (having the bet on them when they do show up of course, not betting them after it has happened).... and by not playing the numbers that don't show up. It seems impossible but it's not.
Remember - the casino wins because long term random creates a balance (more or less).
In a Perfect World (for the casino) 38 numbers would show up in 38 spins - they would be almost
certain to always have their edge constantly - but they don't. It never happens that way.
#10 could show up 5 times in 38 spins - I want to have been on it at least 4 of those wins.
#9 could not show up at all - I don't want to be betting on it.
And no one can predict the future but in a way we can.... that's probably best for another thread though.
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 04, 09:21 AM 2016
So Turbo, what do you think, is Gutway the only way?
I couldn't answer that without all of the specifics on it, which I don't know at this time.
There are certainly good and bad ways to play, even though the math stays the same - not all systems/methods win or lose equally
I left out "computers" purposely because unless something can be exposed and used for what it is - I don't see it as a option...
I can say to the casino "I'm using a system I came up and I'm going to win" and they can laugh.
I can't say "I'm using a hidden device in your casino to win" because if I'm lucky I'll get booted out-the-door. lol. I don't want to think of the worst case scenario either.
I'm not saying that they don't work - I'm simply saying that it's not an option that I could use
for myself personally.
Quote from: TurboGenius on Feb 04, 10:08 AM 2016
And no one can predict the future but in a way we can.... that's probably best for another thread though.
About GUT, I misunderstood that you are proposing it, sorry.
About Dealer Signature, I am where you where before... Cannot see it happening.
Where can one find more of your thoughts (work)?
Thanks
Quote from: TurboGenius on Feb 04, 10:20 AM 2016
I'm not saying that they don't work - I'm simply saying that it's not an option that I could use
for myself personally.
Same here.
Quote from: soggett on Feb 03, 08:16 AM 2016
Since I was mentioned ( I am honored to be amongst the best in your list ), I will reply.
I have a habit to take time away from the wheel to clear my head. I stop thinking about roulette, systems, progressions, and then suddenly the good stuff comes to mind. I then come back and see things with "fresh eyes". I see things that I have missed, understand what I did not and so on. Lot's of "ooooohhhh thats what he meant" moments, hope you get what I mean.
I am still here, learning after 5+ years.
What I see now is what was said while I was a newbie - same old same old. Ideas that have been tried and still come up because everybody wants it easy, a system to make 10000 a day with 100 BR.
I believe most older members don't respond anymore cause they are tired with explaining things over and over. I feel them. Its just how most of us humans are, we want it all here and now. A person with 2 days of roulette experience will come and present a moneymaker - bet on red and double till win. You will tell him it is not good and after some time he will realize you were right. Now he demands you give him your system or the HG, you say no, argue, etc. He leaves, stays, doesn't matter because tomorrow another comes and its rinse and repeat.
Well that is maybe not a good example but just to get a good idea about how it is.
RouletteGhost - 123 123 xxx - xxx can be 123 the same way it can be 111 it does not matter, the ball doesn't know if it lands in dozen 1 or 2, the chances are the same. Couple of years ago I did something similar, I took a 10 spin sequence of R/B and bet against it happening right next - so that spins 11-20 would not be the same as 1-10 (don't know the odds but they should be similar as your example). Guess what happened next? On my very first test I got the same sequence to repeat... I was shocked, disappointed but I learned from it.
The thing is, you need to learn from your own mistakes - that is the only way.
And the older members mean well, they want to stop you from making the same mistakes as they did (how many people tried roulette with the double up system first - like 90% of us).
But not everybody can take critic, and most have to go through it to see for themselves.
Anyway, not to go too much off topic.
I am alive and well :xd:
Still reading up, still learning from the "veterans", still testing, still playing...
Still having ooohhh moments even now (rarer and rarer but still).
Currently on my "to do" list is GUT, I am reading it again (for the fourth time I think) and ti's starting to make sense a little, but the first few times it didn't, I couldn't understand anything. Proof that with experience, time, you get to see differently, you grow. As will you all. I have looked back on systems that i tried when I was new, that I tested and now I can only laugh, I wouldn't bother with them now. But I learned from them and I grew.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Everybody have a beer and let's all work toghether :thumbsup:
Might want to do a bit of research on GUT before testing. Others have tested the idea with no long-term success on its own on several different forums.
Winkel also has a few other basic methods on several forums if you're interested.
One of the intriguing aspects of GUT is the number of numbers that must show/repeat in a given number of spins.
It should be noted that Winkel stopped posting about systems after the GUT info was released; he has only mentioned a few other methods as an aside. Perhaps he has found a winner with GUT :question:
Quote from: thelaw on Feb 04, 02:17 PM 2016
Might want to do a bit of research on GUT before testing. Others have tested the idea with no long-term success on its own on several different forums.
Winkel also has a few other basic methods on several forums if you're interested.
One of the intriguing aspects of GUT is the number of numbers that must show/repeat in a given number of spins.
It should be noted that Winkel stopped posting about systems after the GUT info was released; he has only mentioned a few other methods as an aside. Perhaps he has found a winner with GUT :question:
You love to twist that knife :twisted:
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 03, 10:03 AM 2016
If we saw an extreme like 25 blacks i would do something i normally wouldnt. Marty on red.
Lets say you have 25 blacks in a row and you have outcomes of the last 25 EC-s spun.
How many different sequences of 25 blacks in exactly that order we could possibly have?
How many different sequences of last 25 EC-s exactly in that order we could possibly have?
This is my perception how a dream of Martingale advocates loks like.
Cheers
The software i have enables you to test millions of spins to see how many times something like RRRRRRRR spins and then B or R. The result? No combinations of RB change the odds. Again I'll release it soon after some mods. Can it get clearer?
Quote from: TurboGenius on Feb 04, 09:10 AM 2016
This is true. 123123123 showing up is the exact same odds and probability as 12312312X where X is 1,2 or 3 equally. (past spins can't be used in a game like this).
As for the 0 or 0 and 00 - Big difference when it comes to working this out.
It's those zeros that come into play and kill a method like this.
Simpler to explain without using them, but the math completely changes and makes it worse for the player as well.
Off course, but I was just trying to explain ti as simply as I can.
By the way there are wise words in your posts, but like we already said, people have to go through it themselves.
My example with parents; I am 31, I have 4 nieces and nephews and a year or two ago while watching and listening to them I said to my mom : "I now see what you were telling us when we were kids, you were right all along", she laughed her ass off and said "I told you so" :xd: :xd:
The point being: at that time I saw the world differently than I see it now, but I didn't listen, I had to go through it myself to learn. Same thing with roulette.
Sogget, everyone's knowledge is still developing. We all may think we have understanding of reality but I'm sure time will show we really know nothing. When we think we know it all we stop learning
Quote from: Steve on Feb 05, 03:05 PM 2016
Sogget, everyone's knowledge is still developing. We all may think we have understanding of reality but I'm sure time will show we really know nothing. When we think we know it all we stop learning
True. Goes for everything in life.
Quote from: Steve on Feb 05, 03:05 PM 2016
Sogget, everyone's knowledge is still developing. We all may think we have understanding of reality but I'm sure time will show we really know nothing. When we think we know it all we stop learning
Very true
watching a great program called The Brain With David Eagleman on BBC4
Eagleman proposes consciousness and our perception of reality is likened to a boss in an office. The brain gives out reports and info like staff in a meeting, from all parts of the brain. The boss decides what to do with it and how to proceed.
reality and our feeling of being alive is the boss making decisions based on all the reports put on his desk
In people with learning difficulties or mental illness, their unconventional behavior is due to the staff making decisions because there is no boss. Odd ideas that would normally be thrown out are put in place.
In people who havnt been diagnosed but are a pain in the arse, like some asshole neighbor, you can see how the weak boss lets certain members of staff run the show
Very fascinating
Quote from: Turner on Feb 05, 05:29 PM 2016
Very true
watching a great program called The Brain With David Eagleman on BBC4
Eagleman proposes consciousness and our perception of reality is likened to a boss in an office. The brain gives out reports and info like staff in a meeting, from all parts of the brain. The boss decides what to do with it and how to proceed.
reality and our feeling of being alive is the boss making decisions based on all the reports put on his desk
In people with learning difficulties or mental illness, their unconventional behavior is due to the staff making decisions because there is no boss. Odd ideas that would normally be thrown out are put in place.
In people who havnt been diagnosed but are a pain in the arse, like some asshole neighbor, you can see how the weak boss lets certain members of staff run the show
Very fascinating
A couple of years ago I read a book he authored called Incognito, also very interesting. It makes neuroscience understandable.
Quote from: Steve on Feb 05, 03:05 PM 2016
Sogget, everyone's knowledge is still developing. We all may think we have understanding of reality but I'm sure time will show we really know nothing. When we think we know it all we stop learning
Absolutely agree with you
nice to see my name up there....have been bobbing on here looking in from time to time....the dozens 1,,2,,3 was pretty interesting but there is a better way to categorize it...and learn something about cycles of the game too...if i have time this week i,ll post the way i think you should look at it...and how a cycle works and what you can build on....simple is as simple does
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2 weeks ago id go right back at ya. but no reason to. i wont being doing that anymore
so ok fine, I am a rookie. whatever
Regards,
The Roulette Forum .CC Team.
There were other posts but I cant see edited posts, only fully deleted posts. Anyway guys i'm sorting out the issue with ken and RG. This should not be such a big deal really. Much bigger things going on. Check the forum rule additions. And if in doubt, or if there is a problem with anything, just ask me.
A bit of understanding both ways will help. Mods often get targeted. Anyone in position of authority does. Their job is not always easy. But mods also need to bite their tongue even more so than normal members. Anyway lets please move on from the issue. Again I'll discuss it directly with ken and RG.
Quote from: Steve on Feb 07, 05:36 PM 2016
There were other posts but I cant see edited posts, only fully deleted posts. Anyway guys i'm sorting out the issue with ken and RG. This should not be such a big deal really. Much bigger things going on. Check the forum rule additions. And if in doubt, or if there is a problem with anything, just ask me.
A bit of understanding both ways will help. Mods often get targeted. Anyone in position of authority does. Their job is not always easy. But mods also need to bite their tongue even more so than normal members. Anyway lets please move on from the issue. Again I'll discuss it directly with ken and RG.
Well I guess It shows a lot about the forum. Anyways, It's water under the bridge.
However, 2 incidents and same mod and 2 different people.
That should be a hint in itself.
Anyway's I am sorry to myself for having stopped by here again.
QuoteHowever, 2 incidents and same mod and 2 different people. That should be a hint in itself.
Azim, just about every forum member has had conflict with at least 2 other members. Conflict is a fact of life. It is not justified to single out Ken. He is not going to shut up just because he is a moderator, although generally mods need to be more reserved. I know I am as admin. Generally people in positions of authority are targeted more often, and without justification. A recent example for me is Petespin who speaks crap about me because I banned him for editing my posts and posts from other members. I mean what did he expect?
I'm not saying I see and read everything, but so far every time ken has been in a conflict, the other person had said or done something unjustified. I dont always agree with his handling of it, and likewise I myself havent handled some things properly too. But we are all just human. Anyway conflict is almost always a 2-way thing.
QuoteAnyway's I am sorry to myself for having stopped by here again.
Statements like that really dont help.
Also just because a moderator will generally be more reserved and bite their tongue, dont expect them to sit and shut up. They can and probably will respond to nonsense. In fact I expect them to, but to be careful about wording. Does it give everyone the green light to insult a mod? Well you can try it, but it will be breaking the rules to attack ANY member. And you can expect it to result in a ban. For attacking a moderator? . . . No. For attacking another member.
Steve,
Hate to say it. Sure that don't help. But let's face it. He edited my posts too to make himself look like the victim.
He has done that with RG too making, once again Ken got attacked first.
Why do other mods don't get attacked and be called names. They fight a fair battle not taking their power and became tyrants.
Well, that's all i have to say.
Azim, I dont recall you ever having complained to me about a moderator. It does no good for anyone to complain to anyone except me. In this particular case, I cant see everything that is said. But it appears clear that ken was referred to as a "jerk". This is what apears to have prompted ken's response. From what I can tell, this was because he explaining that someone's system wouldnt work. He's allowed to do that. And if he did it in a wrong way, then tell me with precise examples of what the problem is.
Anyway we could discuss this all day, but who's going to care when we're all 80? What will be gained? Perhaps let's all just get back to it. We can all criticize an idea justly, without attacking the individual. And realistically I know people are going to butt heads every now and then. We can learn to get over it quickly.
I agree that no mod should use their position as a weapon, ie to help win an argument. I've added parts explaining this in the forum rules. It is something that is hard to avoid when you are in a position of authority, even for me. But when someone attacks me, I ask for all the justification, so I can respond very clearly. Why? Because I know I have nothing to hide. I only use the ability as a moderator when something is clearly out of line or personal. Thats how all moderators should be.
Steve,
I hate to say this to you... I get copies of emails from this tread.
There was no place that RG has called Ken a Jerk.
It was just like my case I called him names because he edited the posts.
RG did the same thing. Read between lines "MAKING KEN A TYRANT TO DO ANY THING HE WANTS MAKING HIM LOOK LIKE THE VICTIM.
Anyways, YOU GOING TO PROTECT HIM. YOU HAVE TOO HE IS YOUR MOD.
QuoteAnyways, YOU GOING TO PROTECT HIM. YOU HAVE TOO HE IS YOUR MOD.
I have to make this clear. I am protecting nobody. I already contacted both ken and RG to explain what, in my opinion, both of them did wrong. That message is private for both of them. I sent exactly the same message to them both so there is no bias.
Plain and simple. Ken edited my posts which were not bad in anyway
He tried to deceive people that i said something bad
I am over it. I wont say another word about it
Ok and as I said I couldnt see your original posts, so I dont know exactly what was said. At the very least I did see you refer to him as a jerk, which was what appeared to start it. But regardless, both of you were in the wrong in some way. Anyway i explained my opinion in the message. I hope now we can all just move on from it.
Quote from: Steve on Feb 07, 07:12 PM 2016
Ok and as I said I couldnt see your original posts, so I dont know exactly what was said. At the very least I did see you refer to him as a jerk, which was what appeared to start it. But regardless, both of you were in the wrong in some way. Anyway i explained my opinion in the message. I hope now we can all just move on from it.
Im moved on. Thank u
Quote from: Steve on Feb 07, 07:05 PM 2016
I have to make this clear. I am protecting nobody.
If you aren't action speak louder than word's.
WHY DID SOMEONE DELETE MY POSTS? AFTER MY POSTS GET DELETED AND YOU ADD RULE 9 and 10 in your FORUM RULES MODIFICATION.
Anyways, I have proved to someone on this forum who was over on Wednesday last week, how easy it was for me to make 320 units with mild progression and no tracking with paper and pen.
GOOD LUCK TO YOU (STEVE) AND YOUR SITE.
I will say one more thing. The guy does edit and delete posts to make other members think they said something wrong......he must be stopped
When i fu*k up i apologize. This time i did not
However for what its worth i forgive him
QuoteIf you aren't action speak louder than word's.
Absolutely, and they also say "I've explained to each member what they did wrong, and I updated the forum terms so everyone, without bias, better knows appropriate conduct".
QuoteWHY DID SOMEONE DELETE MY POSTS? AFTER MY POSTS GET DELETED AND YOU ADD RULE 9 and 10 in your FORUM RULES MODIFICATION.
Do you mean this post:
QuoteWow Ken Win's again because all posts get edited or deleted. This was one of the reason's I have stopped posting on this forum. Not that I am a member of any other site. GOOD LUCK TO YOU KEN!! You the one that needs to grow up.
If so, I personally removed it, along with a lot of posts from OTHER members (including Ken and RG), because they were just dragging the forum down and perpetuating conflict. So it wasnt just your post that was removed. And it was done for the good of the forum, because the whole situation is just a waste of time. Don't you agree?
Now there are a heap of other posts that dont help the forum. they make it seem like an unfriendly place. So once we are all ready, i'll just remove them too. Ok?
QuoteAnyways, I have proved to someone on this forum who was over on Wednesday last week, how easy it was for me to make 320 units with mild progression and no tracking with paper and pen.
Unless you have other data to back it up, results in a weekend is realistically not proof of anything. I know of many systems that have won over 20,000 or more spins, but the system actually loses if you repeat the test. I'm not saying your system is good or bad - just that short term tests dont tell much.
Ok anyway to prevent this going any further, I'm locking the topic. Everything that needed to be said has been said. To prolong it just degrades the forum.