Hey Everyone! I'm currently testing out a method of betting using streets. I thought I would share it here with all of you. Please feel free to test it yourselves and post the results. Also open to ideas on tweaks and improvements.
Strategic Exploit 1 - In Negative Edge Games - Bet Only A Few Times But Ready To Bet BIG BET SIZE During Opportunity Setups
Strategic Exploit 2 - EXPECT that there will NOT be a symmetric or “Bankroll Killer Variant†distribution of 3 per Streets per 36 Spins
Tactical Exploit - At least one Street will have 3 Occurrences go to 4 or more in any one Session (= 36 Spins)
Risk Control - No Betting until 25 Spins recorded (accurately)
Risk Control - Wait for 1st “paper win†after 25 Spins - ADD +1 “wait†Spin for every 0/00 outcome prior to Spin 25
Risk Control - Player has sufficient Session Bankroll = 600 units AND the Player is comfortable risking all 600 units; Ideally the Total Lifetime Bankroll = 3x to 5x Session Bankroll
Play Control - Target = EXIT after 1st Net Closed Profit
Play Control - Play to WIN! Be aggressive! Have Faith & Belief in the Strategic Exploit principles above!
Tactical Plays, Bets, & Adjustments (Dynamic Strategy):
1. Betting begins after the 1st Paper Win following Spin 25 (+ # of 0/00s)
2. Add (+1) Spin(s) for every 0/00 result prior to Spin 25
3. Bet on Street(s) only in Hot Zone
4. Every Betting Round - must exceed Draw-down if next Spin = Win
Additional Observations & Ideas
1. STOP Game if there are > 8 Streets in the Hot Zone (Aggressive players can allow >8 Streets in Hot Zone)
2. STOP Game if there are > 6 “Wins†before Spin 25
Frequently Asked Questions:
1. When does actual live $ betting begin? Following the 1st Paper Win after Spin #25. Don’t forget to add (+1) Spin “filter†for every 0/00 result.
2. Example: there were two 0/00s prior to Spin 25 - then the Spin “filter†is Spin #25 (+2) - wait for 1st Paper Win after Spin #27.
3. If the Next Bet exceeds the Session Bankroll â€" how is the Next Bet to be played? Bet all-in on remaining Bankroll evenly split on Street(s) in the Red Zone. Conservative players can STOP instead - refill new Session Bankroll - begin new Game(s).
Attached is an example game.
Notes from example game:
1.Track & record 25 Spins (including 0/00) - two 0/00s
2.Wait for 1st Paper Win after Spin #25(+2) - Spin #27 = Bet Entry Trigger
3.Spin #28 - had six (6) Streets in Red Zone - 2,5,6,7,8,12
4. Immediate Win on Spin #28 - nice “BONUS†Win (+6 units)
Are a the tracking sheets from a few more games so you can see them being used.
OK
you have my attention
37 spin test
7 streets had 3 hits
4 of those streets turned into a 4th hit
thank you for something new
We start with a 36 spin max game. For each 0/00 that comes up during the game we expand it by one.
We track the street results of the first 25 spins (+1 for each 0/00 that has come up during tracking). We are looking for streets that have 3 occurrences. We wait for one of them to go to a 4th occurrence after 25 spin tracking is complete. That is our "paper win"
We then begin betting on each street that has a 3rd occurrence (including any that have 4 or more occurrences)
We use a progression as necessary to ensure that each game will produce a net profit.
The formula of what a payout will be is 12 minus the number of street bets.
So if we have a -12u draw down and 6 streets to bet on. (12-6=+6u) we would bet 3u on each street. 3u x 6u = +18u. - 12u drawdown = net +6u
very cool
did you discover this through study or from another source?
I have also been testing taking the first bets with line bets.
If a Street in the Red Zone is in play â€" how is the “Adjacent Street†to be determined? The Most Recent Adjacent Street will be paired to
the Street in the Red Zone. This will form a valid line bet. If both Streets adjacent to the Street in the Red Zone have not been hit choose the adjacent Street closest to Street #6 and #7.
When is betting on line bets finished and future betting switched to betting ONLY on Street(s) in the Red Zone? - If there are > 5 Streets in the Red Zone.
Attached is a sample game.
Here are the notes from the sample game:
1. Track & record 25 Spins (including 0/00)
2. Wait for Wait for 1st Paper Win after Spin #25 ----> Spin #26 = Bet Entry Trigger
3. Spin #27 ---> had five (5) Streets in Red Zone ---> 1,2,6,8,12
4. Since < 6 --- prefer using line bets to reduce risk.
a) Bet Adjacent Street to Street in Red Zone
b) Combine into: 1/2, 5/6, 7/8, 11/12
5. Immediate Win on Spin #27
I will typically only bet if it is 4 line bets. If first bet is a loss but is still only 4 line bets... I will bet again but progressing up to 3u per line.
If this bet fails, I will then switch to betting on streets (will need to start with 3u bet per street). Keeping with betting lines can really push up the progressions quickly. Better to switch to streets for better risk to reward.
If the first 4 line bet fails.... but now would need 5 lines.... better to switch to streets.
I will take the first bet if it needs 5... but will then switch to streets if it losses.
This system seems to win a lot more small wins of +1u or +2u.. but the drawdowns are never that large since typically winning on first or second bet. Could probably get by with a 250u bankroll.
Another idea I've had is playing the "wheel streets" (series of 3 numbers together on the wheel)
Use the same system but place flat bets on the required numbers.
I've yet to test this one.
I've played close to 100 games without a loss. Some of them were just street bets and some of them were using the line bet / street bet combo.
I was just waiting for 20 spins and then beginning to bet but had too many losses.
I than begin waiting for a "paper win" after spin 20 and then started betting. Also had losses there.
Waiting for a "paper win" after spin 25 though seems to win more. Bankroll requirement is a little higher though due to having to bet on more streets and the progressions can stack up a little bit.
I've also been trying to think of ways to speed the game up. Tracking 25 spins takes a while! lol
Not quite sure I have any ideas on it that have worked out yet.
Anyway, that's where I'm at. Looking forward to input from you guys and any suggestions you may have to improve the system.
in your first example there were two zeros, doesn’t this mean that the game should start at spin 28?
Also in Game 4, because of the single zero we start at spin number 27, which is no. 7 and a loser.
Spin 28 is no. 23 and is a winner, so shouldn’t the betting commence at spin 29?
It looks like you put spin 28, no. 23, in street 10.
Whoops! Tracking error there on my part. Good eye, shuttle!
Yes, in game #4. Spin #28 should have been in Street 8 not street 10
We would track 26 spins because of the single zero. 25 is the base and then +1 for each zero. So 26 in this case.
We then get the "paper win" on spin 28 ( it would be in street 8 )
Betting would begin on spin 29.
Would have won on spin 31. (or spin 30 if using line bet method)
Thanks for your reply, which came as I was modifying my original post. Could you please have a look at my question regarding your first example.
Thanks for posting this method, I think it is very interesting.
Hey Shuttle, to answer your first question...
In the first game, because of the two zeros, you would track to spin #27 and then #28 would be the paper win, so betting would have started on spin #29.
In this case, I played spin #27 as the paper win because it was the last of the +1s from zeros so I was okay with counting it as the paper win... I started betting on spin #28. This was a bit more aggressive play on my part.
Does that answer your question?
5 Games played yesterday. All easy wins.
I'm terrible sorry, but I have no idea what's going on in this thread. Could someone come with an actual example on how to play this? It seems very interesting :-)
What don't you understand? I think the quick layout in reply #3 is pretty easy to follow but I'm happy to clear up any questions :)
Rourke. We want a street that hit 3 times withi 36 spins to hit a 4th time
Thank you WhoIs and RouletteGhost - Not it makes perfect sense to me :-) I'll give it a go' tonight :-)
Hi WTWM
Thanks for your replies to my questions.
I would appreciate your comments on the spins attached. These are numbers from a B&M casino that I play.
Hey Shuttle! Looks good. Pretty rare that you have to go that far into the progression but this would have turned out a win. It looks like your betting might be a little off though. It should be 1, 1, 2, 3, 8, 23, 92. That would have recovered fully then start new game.
Thanks for your reply. I don't think I could bet 92 units on each of nine streets in order to win just a few units.
Also if the 92 unit bet was a loss that would be a cumulative loss of approx. 1,100 units.
System still going strong using line bets as initial bets. Haven't had to go past a second bet.
More games
Even more games!
Since I haven't had to go past a second bet during any of these games, I'd say it's safe to lower the session bankroll down from 240u. I was prepared to risk all 240u during progression but seems that may not be necessary.
It may be better to only progress once after the initial bet. If the second bet lost (it hasn't yet!) then stop game and start a new one.
Anyone else agree that this may be a better idea?
To try and speed the game up, I'm thinking about tracking just enough numbers to require 4 line bets and then entering. I'll let you guys know how this goes. If anyone else wants to help with testing, I'd appreciate it!
5 Games today. All winners. Didn't have to go past 2nd bet. This is betting as soon as we have 4 Lines. No more waiting for 25+ spins. I've converted the pdfs to images so you guys don't have to keep downloading them if you want to take a look. Should make it a lot easier for you.
Has anyone else done any testing with this? Yes? No?
Any feedback on it so far?
Thanks!
4 more games this evening. All winners. No more than 2nd bet needed.
Thanks, woman!
4 more games played this afternoon. All winners. Still didn't have to go past a second bet.
Hi HITWM - Congratulations you are doing well so far.
A few questions:
Are you playing live or RGN?
Single or double zero?
Hard earned cash or fun money?
Thanks - looking forward to doing some testing myself.
Nick
Hey Nick,
I play live on single zero wheels with real money.
OK. Here I am. Whipped out my almighty zumma book. Opened to (I forget what page.
That's how early in testing it was). Scribbled a large graph like her test ones.
Ran the test. Did 25 spins. Spin 26 was the "paper test" and won. Then spin
25 won for real.
I have already generated and printed an excel test form to test with.
I am impressed and thankful for all the test results that the woman has posted.
That's what this place is all about. And it's even better if it works. But I have
a very good first impression.
I am guessing, from the single zero, that she is in Europe, and hope that double zero
doesn't muddy things up for any reason.
I'll be looking more at this.
"The man".
4 more games. All winners. Finally had to go past a second bet though. Game 2 required a 3rd bet and Game 4 required a 4th bet.
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 14, 08:14 PM 2016
Has anyone else done any testing with this? Yes? No?
Any feedback on it so far?
Thanks!
I'm working it for sure. I did zumma page 123. (Not a lot, but when my engine gets going,
it will be a lot.
Do you have zumma? I forgot the paper win. Spin 29 was a paper win and then
spin 32 (line 872) was the win.
My head was getting a little confused, not being used to it all.
Now, I see you revamped it to start betting with only 4 boxes filled? HAve to
digest that one a little.
Did you read your PM on the forum? One from me.
I'm going to continue to work on this and I like the mod you made to make it only
1 line of 4-6. If it still works. I have my excel grid to test in.
Thanks
Mogul. Try not to throw it in the trash if it has a few losses on zumma. Just some friendly advice to you. Because you do do that
if the Mighty Mogul likes it one must look
Quote from: Tomla021 on Mar 20, 05:06 PM 2016
if the Mighty Mogul likes it one must look
LOL. But that was from the hip.
mogul. like you i also test zumma, but word to the wise. open up celtic casino and test with fun money on a live wheel....just in case zumma is shit
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 20, 06:06 PM 2016
mogul. like you i also test zumma, but word to the wise. open up celtic casino and test with fun money on a live wheel....just in case zumma is shit
Truth be known, I'd sit at some kind of real place playing on paper no matter what.
Last fall I got all jizzed up with that labby method. Sat for many days with good dry runs
before I brought money (which never happened), till it fell flat on it's face. This is just
practice.
But my cast should be off soon. And I need to be locked and loaded.
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 20, 12:45 PM 2016
4 more games. All winners. Finally had to go past a second bet though. Game 2 required a 3rd bet and Game 4 required a 4th bet.
I'm a little bit confused by your starting point. Like starting on
spin 7 or 8. What criteria is used to begin betting?
Quote from: mogul397 on Mar 20, 07:28 PM 2016
I'm a little bit confused by your starting point. Like starting on
spin 7 or 8. What criteria is used to begin betting?
not that hard
in 36 spins several streets will hit 4 times
wait for first paper win. wait for a street to go from 3 to 4 hits.
now bet that the streets that hit 3 times will goto 4 times.
smart woman. well this is roulette dot cc who knows who "she" is but its smart and it works
all you have to do is READ what the OP wrote, why confused? : "We are looking for streets that have 3 occurrences. We wait for one of them to go to a 4th occurrence after 25 spin tracking is complete. That is our "paper win"
We then begin betting on each street that has a 3rd occurrence "
Quote from: mogul397 on Mar 20, 07:28 PM 2016
I'm a little bit confused by your starting point. Like starting on
spin 7 or 8. What criteria is used to begin betting?
Hey Mogul,
I'm starting the betting as soon as I have an outcome that would need at least 4 line bets (some people call them double streets)
If two adjacent streets hit, I will combine those into 1 line bet.
If a street has been hit but neither of the adjacent streets have been, I will use the street closer to 6 or 7 depending on the side of table it is on.
Let's say we have a spin series where street 1, 4, 8, and 11 are hit. This would be turned into the following bets:
1/2
4/5 (could do 3/4 but street 5 is closer to 6)
7/8 (could do 8/9 but street 7 is closer to middle)
10/11 (could do 11/12 but again street 10 is closer to middle street 7)
Hope that clears it up.
Oh and I do not have Zumma
i thought it was a 3 number street. but in fact you are doing line bets of 6 numbers?
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 20, 07:43 PM 2016
Hey Mogul,
I'm starting the betting as soon as I have an outcome that would need at least 4 line bets (some people call them double streets)
If two adjacent streets hit, I will combine those into 1 line bet.
If a street has been hit but neither of the adjacent streets have been, I will use the street closer to 6 or 7 depending on the side of table it is on.
Let's say we have a spin series where street 1, 4, 8, and 11 are hit. This would be turned into the following bets:
1/2
4/5 (could do 3/4 but street 5 is closer to 6)
7/8 (could do 8/9 but street 7 is closer to middle)
10/11 (could do 11/12 but again street 10 is closer to middle street 7)
Hope that clears it up.
Oh and I do not have Zumma
* mar 15 tue game 1-page-001.jpg
Here is an example of a question. This game shows you winning
on the 7th spin. That means after 6 spins, you saw an opportunity.
It also looks like, despite thinking in terms of "double streets", you
bet street 7 with 8 (????) but didn't double up on others, since your
profit was +2.
* mar 15 tue game 2-page-001.jpg
Here's another one. Spin #6 was where you got in, and somehow
you only lost 4 units on the 1st bet (out of 6 streets bet?).
Not sure. Can you explain?
The original was was clear (but this has way more
betting ops)
Thanks
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 20, 07:47 PM 2016
i thought it was a 3 number street. but in fact you are doing line bets of 6 numbers?
On Page 1, in post 6 I mentioned that I had also been experimenting with line bets in addition to street bets.
Quote from: mogul397 on Mar 20, 11:27 PM 2016
* mar 15 tue game 1-page-001.jpg
Here is an example of a question. This game shows you winning
on the 7th spin. That means after 6 spins, you saw an opportunity.
It also looks like, despite thinking in terms of "double streets", you
bet street 7 with 8 (????) but didn't double up on others, since your
profit was +2.
* mar 15 tue game 2-page-001.jpg
Here's another one. Spin #6 was where you got in, and somehow
you only lost 4 units on the 1st bet (out of 6 streets bet?).
Not sure. Can you explain?
The original was was clear (but this has way more
betting ops)
Thanks
* mar 15 tue game 1-page-001.jpg
In this game... all you have to do is look at the tracker.... at spin 6... streets 1,3,4,8, & 10 have been hit.
These are condensed down to 4 line bets (or double streets as some people call them) They are combined down to 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, and 9/10.
We are betting as soon as all the numbers that come up can be covered with 4 line bets.
The profit was (+2u) because we used line bets. The formula for profits on line bets is 6 - number of line bets = profit. so 6 - 4 = +2u
* mar 15 tue game 2-page-001.jpg
In this game... yes, I lost 4units on the first bet since it was a bet using 4 line bets each with 1 u. Then switched to streets since now a 5th line bet would be required. Staying with line bets doesn't make sense as now I have to push the progression up too aggressively. In switching over to streets now I don't have to progress up.
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 12, 09:17 AM 2016
Since I haven't had to go past a second bet during any of these games, I'd say it's safe to lower the session bankroll down from 240u. I was prepared to risk all 240u during progression but seems that may not be necessary.
It may be better to only progress once after the initial bet. If the second bet lost (it hasn't yet!) then stop game and start a new one.
Anyone else agree that this may be a better idea?
To try and speed the game up, I'm thinking about tracking just enough numbers to require 4 line bets and then entering. I'll let you guys know how this goes. If anyone else wants to help with testing, I'd appreciate it!
What this seems to boil down to is that you are playing 2 dozens (piece meal).
The 1,3,9 progression is very common place here. And some like to consider the 27 unit bet
(per dozen). So your thinking is on the right track. Perhaps the benefit (so far) in this is
better bet selection.
Betting for it to go from 3 hits to 4 hits. Do you find it better on streets or lines?
Could be better bet selection. Sure the first two bets may be like double dozens but then we switch to streets. No longer following dozens at all.
Also, we don't follow the typical 1,3,9, progression. The progression could start 1,1,2... and then we will continue using street bets for the better risk to reward.
Kind of failed in the book.
Can't chase it more than 3 losses.
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 21, 03:11 PM 2016
Could be better bet selection. Sure the first two bets may be like double dozens but then we switch to streets. No longer following dozens at all.
Also, we don't follow the typical 1,3,9, progression. The progression could start 1,1,2... and then we will continue using street bets for the better risk to reward.
Then I misunderstood.
If you are betting 4 double streets, that's 2 dozen numbers.
The only progression you can recover from that is 1,3 9.
Explain the math.
I hit a bad spot. And I'm not sure how much to chase it.
Winning every 1st or 2nd try is sweet. For anything. But it didn't happen.
My numbers from zumma pg 39 (I know you don't have the book, just documenting my source.
33 11
16 6
29 10
0 0
10 4 play 3/4 5/6 9/10/11/12
11 6 Win
If you bet 1 unit on each double street, you lose the 4 units and
get paid 5. +1U profit. Not +2U
Continue
00 0
30 10
27 9
23 8
36 5
11 4 Play 3/4 7/8 9/10/11/12
30 Win section 10. +1 unit. Not 2 units. 1 unit on each double street.
Done right?
It can take more than 3 losses depending on the number of street bets required and your bankroll.
You say: The only progression you can recover from that is 1,3 9.
That is wrong.
Let's say first bet losses and we are -4u. The last spin result requires a 5th line bet. When a 5th line bet is required we switch to streets.
Let's say that we have 5 streets. We can now place a bet with 1u per street. 12 - numbers of streets to bet on = profit.
12-5 = 7u. We had a -4u loss and now we are up a net +3u.
I suggest you reread everything I've posted and learn the rules.
I don't follow the order of your spin results with it being in two columns.
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 21, 05:30 PM 2016
I suggest you reread everything I've posted and learn the rules.
will take ages
dont hold your breath
ultimate thread destroyer this guy
reply #36- "Mogul. Try not to throw it in the trash if it has a few losses on zumma. Just some friendly advice to you. Because you do do that"
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 21, 05:30 PM 2016
It can take more than 3 losses depending on the number of street bets required and your bankroll.
You say: The only progression you can recover from that is 1,3 9.
That is wrong.
Let's say first bet losses and we are -4u. The last spin result requires a 5th line bet. When a 5th line bet is required we switch to streets.
Let's say that we have 5 streets. We can now place a bet with 1u per street. 12 - numbers of streets to bet on = profit.
12-5 = 7u. We had a -4u loss and now we are up a net +3u.
I suggest you reread everything I've posted and learn the rules.
I don't follow the order of your spin results with it being in two columns.
First of all, I was incorrect about what I said about only winning "1 units". The conventional
thinking that I got caught in was betting 1 unit per dozen. In this case we are betting
2 units per dozen, splitting it across double streets. So the payoff betting 2 units per dozen is
3 units. My mistake. I tend to think to fast. The unit size is different. And the math.
To answer your question at the end about "two columbs" or "two dozens", betting 24 numbers is
2 dozen, 4 double streets, or 8 streets. Playing 4 double streets is 2 dozen. Which pays
2-1.
Playing the occasional extra street makes the math and the chances a little worse, if you get over
8 streets, or 4 double streets, which is what you look for.
Yes, if you bet 5 streets, that cuts down the exposure and increases the profit equation.
But my understanding of the instructions was that you waited for enough streets to be hit
for you to cover 4 double streets by existing street hits, or filling in the streets into
groups of two by adding the streets that "pair" with a hit street.
Forgive me if I'm a little unclear about only betting 5 or 7 streets (which is still better than 8)
I'll review what you said to see if I can understand it better, but the profit math is still a little hard.
BTW, you said you play two adjacent streets if they hit.
But I also see you backfill an unhit street to make a double street,
as long as the "sister" street has a hit.
Quote from: mogul397 on Mar 22, 08:26 AM 2016
BTW, you said you play two adjacent streets if they hit.
But I also see you backfill an unhit street to make a double street,
as long as the "sister" street has a hit.
As I explained it in post 6 on the first page...
3 Games so far this morning. All winners.
Great work
The effort and charts speaks volumes
3 more games this afternoon. All winners
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 21, 05:48 PM 2016
will take ages
dont hold your breath
ultimate thread destroyer this guy
reply #36- "Mogul. Try not to throw it in the trash if it has a few losses on zumma. Just some friendly advice to you. Because you do do that"
In response to that point, I may do that and it may seem like that. If/when that happens,
do you also note that it sticks? And when it does, it is because, apparently, that other people
experience the same inconsistent performance on whatever level? I truly doubt (and hope) that
my stamp of disapproval alone leads people to discard a method.
All I am noting so far is that the money management is the same as a 2 dozen labby, just
presented in a different way.
expand your horizons from zumma
i have the same zumma you do
the problem with zumma is i can find a loss for ANY method.
my method, mr j method, GUT, KTF, you name it and I will find a loss in zumma for it.
the method this woman has presented is not a 1 3 9 progression method. far from.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 22, 09:39 PM 2016
expand your horizons from zumma
i have the same zumma you do
the problem with zumma is i can find a loss for ANY method.
my method, mr j method, GUT, KTF, you name it and I will find a loss in zumma for it.
the method this woman has presented is not a 1 3 9 progression method. far from.
What method is that?
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Mar 22, 10:16 PM 2016
What method is that?
Ken
Im making a point to mogul
Mogul relies heavily on zumma
Whenever someone posts a method he finds a page in zumma where it loses then the thread declines
So my point to mogul is any and all methods have a losing page in zumma
Unless you increase the accuracy of your predictions ;)
Us hobbyists like creating methods with triggers. And believe me you there will be losses in zumma. If there werent it wouldnt be roulette
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 22, 09:59 AM 2016
3 Games so far this morning. All winners.
Can you delineate what the bets are, and how they change when
you switch to streets?
Quote from: mogul397 on Mar 23, 08:55 AM 2016
Can you delineate what the bets are, and how they change when
you switch to streets?
That's already done in the images and my previous explanations.
3 games this morning. All winners. :)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 22, 10:21 PM 2016
Im making a point to mogul
Mogul relies heavily on zumma
Whenever someone posts a method he finds a page in zumma where it loses then the thread declines
So my point to mogul is any and all methods have a losing page in zumma
Unless you increase the accuracy of your predictions ;)
Us hobbyists like creating methods with triggers. And believe me you there will be losses in zumma. If there werent it wouldnt be roulette
What could there be about zumma that would be a bad thing to use? I could throw darts at a board.
If zumma is "contrived", then the results are certainly those that could appear on a wheel. That
is a definite. What is also definite is that whoever contrived it could NEVER contrive against this,
or any specific method.
Reminds me of an old, funny "All in the Family". Archie was arguing with Gloria about gun control.
Gloria quoted how many people were killed by guns every year. Archie turned and said, "Would you
feel better if they were pushed out of windows"?
So which do you want. Zumma? Darts? (36 side dice roll?). When I was mobile I also would have
lost of air ball data. And then you'd complain that someone is sitting in the machine.
Honesly. What a way to waste time.. I may be the "system breaker", but when you can't find
anything else, you always come through with something ridiculous to harp about.
Loving all the results here
I will add this to my weekend tests
You and guys like notto are what we need here
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 23, 09:05 AM 2016
That's already done in the images and my previous explanations.
You describe, through implication, how you bet. Like you bet
4 double streets, and lost 4 units. That is clear.
But it is not clear how you allofasudden, switch to streets, and why and how.
It's difficult to explain or show. You have a very good way of documenting the
games. But I can't easily edit them.
* Mar 22 Tue Game 1.jpg (152.82 kB, 1650x1275 - viewed 9 times.)
In this game it is fairly easy to see the workout. You got 4 distinct streets
that you expand to double streets. 11,1,5 and 7 all expand, toward the center
(6 and 7) to be 1/2 4/5 6/7 and 10/11.
* Mar 22 Tue Game 2.jpg (151.99 kB, 1650x1275 - viewed 9 times.)
This game was a lot more complicated, with duplicated.
If I were tracking it, I would have begun betting on spin #7 I think.
By that time you cold conjure double streets 5/6 (from spin 2),
7/8 (from spin 5) 9/10 (from spin 1) abd 11/12 (from spin 6)
Yet you keep going. Your documentation is outstanding, but when you
follow it spin by spin, that is what happens.
From there, you bet on spin #13 as you say. I didn't understand how we
got that far to begin with. If I did, then I wouldn't understand what you
did to split into streets. I guess it would be 1 unit on 10 streets by your
math. That is more than half the board and only leaves 2 streets or
6 numbers vacant. That is MORE than betting 2 dozen.
(BTW, when you get to betting 6 streets, it is half the table and the same thing
as making an even money bet. Hence, possibly, making the math and recovery easier).
So next it LOOKS like you bet 10 streets again with 2 units? Don't know. Have to
figure it out. I think you would win 22 unit (11 per chip) and win 22 units. Not
21 as you document. On the 3rd bet.
This has you in for a total of 40 units. If I play a labby on 2 dozen, I play 1,3,9.
That is -2, -6, and -18 for 3 losses. That is -27. If you lost 3 bets it would be -40.
I realize it isn't apples to apples. But close enough.
And I still don't know which streets you cover on the 3rd bet.
(This too much "thinkin'" for you, RG?)
Just an example of the confusion.
Quote from: MrJ on Mar 22, 10:16 PM 2016
What method is that?
Ken
I love it. But you could stop at the fact that he never posts actual results to his
fictitious methods.
I applaud TW (the woman) for her work and workouts for her method. ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
(See that? TW? You have achieved "acronymdom"
My fault. My instinct was to completely ignore you
But full blown ignorance bothers me
I take full responsibility and should have never interacted with you
Quote from: mogul397 on Mar 23, 11:27 AM 2016
You describe, through implication, how you bet. Like you bet
4 double streets, and lost 4 units. That is clear.
But it is not clear how you allofasudden, switch to streets, and why and how.
It's difficult to explain or show. You have a very good way of documenting the
games. But I can't easily edit them.
* Mar 22 Tue Game 1.jpg (152.82 kB, 1650x1275 - viewed 9 times.)
In this game it is fairly easy to see the workout. You got 4 distinct streets
that you expand to double streets. 11,1,5 and 7 all expand, toward the center
(6 and 7) to be 1/2 4/5 6/7 and 10/11.
* Mar 22 Tue Game 2.jpg (151.99 kB, 1650x1275 - viewed 9 times.)
This game was a lot more complicated, with duplicated.
If I were tracking it, I would have begun betting on spin #7 I think.
By that time you cold conjure double streets 5/6 (from spin 2),
7/8 (from spin 5) 9/10 (from spin 1) abd 11/12 (from spin 6)
Yet you keep going. Your documentation is outstanding, but when you
follow it spin by spin, that is what happens.
From there, you bet on spin #13 as you say. I didn't understand how we
got that far to begin with. If I did, then I wouldn't understand what you
did to split into streets. I guess it would be 1 unit on 10 streets by your
math. That is more than half the board and only leaves 2 streets or
6 numbers vacant. That is MORE than betting 2 dozen.
(BTW, when you get to betting 6 streets, it is half the table and the same thing
as making an even money bet. Hence, possibly, making the math and recovery easier).
So next it LOOKS like you bet 10 streets again with 2 units? Don't know. Have to
figure it out. I think you would win 22 unit (11 per chip) and win 22 units. Not
21 as you document. On the 3rd bet.
This has you in for a total of 40 units. If I play a labby on 2 dozen, I play 1,3,9.
That is -2, -6, and -18 for 3 losses. That is -27. If you lost 3 bets it would be -40.
I realize it isn't apples to apples. But close enough.
And I still don't know which streets you cover on the 3rd bet.
(This too much "thinkin'" for you, RG?)
Just an example of the confusion.
Hey mogul,
Your understanding of Mar 22 Tue Game 1 are correct.
Let's explore Mar 22 Tue Game 2.
You mentioned you would start betting on spin 7 with double streets 5/6 (from spin 2),
7/8 (from spin 5) 9/10 (from spin 1) and 11/12 (from spin 6).
This is really close but not quite accurate. At spin 7, I only counted 3 streets because I always combine two streets that are together. In this case, street 10 (from spin 1) and street 11 (from spin 6) were combined into 1 double street. (where as you split them into two separate ones). So I had to go a few more spins until I had the 4th double street. Does that make sense?
Now, when I switch to streets (which is only in 2 scenarios... #1 the first two bets are 4 double streets and both bets lose... #2 If the second bet would require 5 double streets instead of 4 to cover everything...).... I'm just betting on the streets that have been hit.
So here we had 4 double streets that lost.... -4u. A fifth was now required so we switch to streets. Going into the second bet we had 8 streets to bet on. Now, if this bet wins I will make +4u. That would make the game breakeven. I want to go for the win so I have to bet 2u per street. That will give me +8u and a +4u net win.
However, that bet losses. Fine. So now we have 9 streets to bet on going into bet #3. We have a drawdown of -20u. I know that with 9 streets I will profit +3u per unit bet... so If I want to win I have to bet 7u per street. That will win me +21 units for a net +1u win.
Hope that all makes sense.
Yes, there will be times where we are betting more than 2 dozen numbers. (which is why I don't equate this to playing double dozens or the usual progressions found there)
Yes, with 6 streets it is just an even money bet... however it's not covering the numbers I want to cover.
Anyway, hope that helps clear up any of your confusion.
* Wed Mar 23 Game 3.jpg
Please ignore the maths in this game. They are bit off. lol That's what happens when you are updating the spreadsheet post game. Was still a winning game though but only for +1u not +2u.
If anyone wants to tackle the correct bet sizing as a little "test" feel free to for it :)
i have a question
i know this is based on occurrences of a street hit 3 times to turn to 4 within 36 spins.
my question is if you have a street hit 3 times prior to hitting 25 spins will you continue to wait or will you begin betting that street?
i know in your first post you said you wait 25 spins, then wait for a paper win...but on any occasion do you begin early if a street hits 3 hits?
Hey RG,
If I'm playing a game where I'm waiting the full 25 spins + paper win.... I DO NOT start betting until then.
If I have a street go to 3 occurrences prior to the 25 spins, I'll keep waiting.
Hope that answers your question.
Hello WITWM and thank you for sharing your method.
Have you tried betting a street to hit again after 3 hits?
Is this method that you're sharing with us, the result of tests you've carried out?
Just to clarify it, you wait a 25 spin cycle, then bet on streets that have 4 hits, after a virtual W?
Thanks again.
Hey ewarwoowar,
The initial method is betting on streets that have hit 3 times or more after 25 spins (plus a paper win). Some will have hit 3 times others may have been hit 6, we would bet them all the same as long as they have been hit 3 times.
Does that make sense?
Quote from: ewarwoowar on Mar 24, 04:15 AM 2016
Hello WITWM and thank you for sharing your method.
Have you tried betting a street to hit again after 3 hits?
Is this method that you're sharing with us, the result of tests you've carried out?
Just to clarify it, you wait a 25 spin cycle, then bet on streets that have 4 hits, after a virtual W?
Thanks again.
Hey Ed....
Hows it going mate.
Sorry Turner, just seen this. I'm fine thanks. You ok?
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 23, 01:08 PM 2016
Hey mogul,
Your understanding of Mar 22 Tue Game 1 are correct.
Let's explore Mar 22 Tue Game 2.
You mentioned you would start betting on spin 7 with double streets 5/6 (from spin 2),
7/8 (from spin 5) 9/10 (from spin 1) and 11/12 (from spin 6).
This is really close but not quite accurate. At spin 7, I only counted 3 streets because I always combine two streets that are together. In this case, street 10 (from spin 1) and street 11 (from spin 6) were combined into 1 double street. (where as you split them into two separate ones). So I had to go a few more spins until I had the 4th double street. Does that make sense?
Now, when I switch to streets (which is only in 2 scenarios... #1 the first two bets are 4 double streets and both bets lose... #2 If the second bet would require 5 double streets instead of 4 to cover everything...).... I'm just betting on the streets that have been hit.
So here we had 4 double streets that lost.... -4u. A fifth was now required so we switch to streets. Going into the second bet we had 8 streets to bet on. Now, if this bet wins I will make +4u. That would make the game breakeven. I want to go for the win so I have to bet 2u per street. That will give me +8u and a +4u net win.
However, that bet losses. Fine. So now we have 9 streets to bet on going into bet #3. We have a drawdown of -20u. I know that with 9 streets I will profit +3u per unit bet... so If I want to win I have to bet 7u per street. That will win me +21 units for a net +1u win.
Hope that all makes sense.
Yes, there will be times where we are betting more than 2 dozen numbers. (which is why I don't equate this to playing double dozens or the usual progressions found there)
Yes, with 6 streets it is just an even money bet... however it's not covering the numbers I want to cover.
Anyway, hope that helps clear up any of your confusion.
Well to start with, I had 1, (2,3,4), 5, 6.
That is 4 street positions. From that I coupled the streets up
with adjoining streets, based on you rule about looking in toward
the center. So I got 4 double streets.
You have 3/4, 5/6, 8/9, and 10/11. 3 out of 4 of those double
streets have a hit, except for "5/6". 6 has no hit, and you filled it in.
At what point do you fill in to create a double street? When you only
have one street to add? As opposed to 2 or 3 or 4?
As soon as I have 4 line bets.
If 4 streets are hit and none of them are adjacent, I fill in (using the side closer to the middle 6/7 streets)
If two streets get hit and are adjacent, they get filled in together and count as 1 line bet. So would still need either 3 more line bets. Those could be 3 streets that were hit with no adjacent and need a fill in... or it could be a total of 6 more streets all being combined with an adjacent hit street... totaling 3 more line bets
That's what I did.
Quoting myself
By that time you could conjure double streets 5/6 (from spin 2,3,4),
7/8 (from spin 5) 9/10 (from spin 1) and 11/12 (from spin 6)
Expanding inward to make lines from streets.
You are incorrect because you are splitting street 10 (from spin 1) and street 11 (from spin 6) into two different line bets.
My rules state that you always combine adjacent streets that have been hit. Those are adjacent streets so it becomes 10/11. NOT 9/10 and 11/12.
So you're saying that the combination of spin 1 and 6 combine, so at that
point you don't have 4 lines to set up. Only 3 because they combine.
Correct?
If so, then let me move forward and ask about money. What is your unit size?
And as you are winning games, how much are you making? I find a lot of time
here that people are betting $1 or 10 cent or something. So a few units doesn't
add up to much.
Yes, that's correct.
My unit size is $8. The win usually nets +2u so +$16 per win. I just hit +250u a couple of days ago with means I have doubled the bankroll. I've put it aside and will continue using my current bankroll putting aside the profits every time I double it.
Although, I don't see how unit size is relevant. If someone is in a 3rd world country and can only afford 10 cents as their unit size... but are winning fairly consistently... that doesn't mean their system or strategy or method is any less viable than someone playing it but with a $10 unit size.
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Mar 28, 10:38 AM 2016
Yes, that's correct.
My unit size is $8. The win usually nets +2u so +$16 per win. I just hit +250u a couple of days ago with means I have doubled the bankroll. I've put it aside and will continue using my current bankroll putting aside the profits every time I double it.
Although, I don't see how unit size is relevant. If someone is in a 3rd world country and can only afford 10 cents as their unit size... but are winning fairly consistently... that doesn't mean their system or strategy or method is any less viable than someone playing it but with a $10 unit size.
In the long run it matters. Income and risk. As you say, for what someone can afford.
But for a bread and butter method, making $3 when you make a trip is silly.
Other times (don't ask me why) when people go all in and take risk, the thing seems
different. Sometimes the "time tested strategy" fails. Sometimes people get nervous and
don't follow the method. The unit size actually effects play somehow. And for someone
playing for pennies the bragging right is smaller.
For me, if I decide something is good, I will test it on paper, live, with my note book.
And bring back results. Much like you have. And report them. I applaud you for that.
The casino is 3 exits down from me now. (A trip to he hardware store). The airball is
$3 min (a consideration). But it is also fast. And while I had honed some other methods
that I tested (and failed on paper), I was noticing that when I approached betting in my
head, that the spin results might be pressing the time I had to figure out my bet and
make it.
This one is way more complicated. Not sure how much time I would have to calculate
next steps and the the odd amounts to bet on each line or street.
I agree. Unit size can effect mindset and player decisions if not well trained and conditioned to stick to "the plan". I also agree that making a trip to make $3 is hardly worth it. lol
There is a little bit of mental exercise required with this method at first. With practice though it becomes second nature like anything else. I played with sims for a good while until I could do everything quickly and now I don't even really need to think about it.
Where are you from?
Notice single zero
I'm in USA. In land based casinos, I'll go for the single zero if possible if not I'll play the double.
I tend to play online quite a bit also with live dealers. I have accounts at 5Dimes and BetOnline
You can never define long term. Long term working bet for one might not work for another. You get a bet that passes 2 million spins 100 times but it might fail in another 2 million test.
There are only two ways to test. Mathematically simulate and prove your method. Or Get tests done manually in smaller chunks based on your expectation and see that the smaller chunks are winning as well as the larger sum of parts.
There is no point in having a beautiful sine curve that ends up positive in 2 million spins.
Hi Guys,
When we have our win Do we start over and then track another 25 spins ???
Cheers
Hey Sturrock.
Yes, you after the win you start a new game. (which means tracking 25 more spins + paper win if you are playing that method)
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Apr 10, 01:35 PM 2016
Hey Sturrock.
Yes, you after the win you start a new game. (which means tracking 25 more spins + paper win if you are playing that method)
I never got the transition from 25 to the shorter set. It seemed simply like a basic improvement.
Why would you choose to wait 25 spins for a single chance to make one bet if you can do it in
5-10?