This is simple, treat it as nonsense if you want or pay attention.
Take a piece of paper and a pencil
Make a list of every fact that you know about roulette.
These don't have to be FACT fact - but try to be as close to fact as you can be.
Look at the list, add to it - some amazing ideas will pop into your head.
Simple. Step one will lead you to step 2, it always does.
Ran 1 million spins (euro wheel) with RX and looked at the results, might as well be able to add
this as facts to the list :)
14 number appeared above expected, 23 appeared below expected (overall).
The most any number repeated back to back was 4 times. (multiple times, various numbers).
The most spins any number went without showing was 484 spins in row.
A even money bet (low/high/red/black/odd/even) can repeat 23 times.
A even money bet can fail to show for 25 spins in a row.
A 2:1 bet (dozen or column) can repeat 13 in a row and can fail to show for 44 spins in a row.
A street can repeat for 5 spins in a row and not show for 173 spins.
A line (double street) can repeat for 9 spins in a row and can fail to show for 94 spins in a row.
A corner (4 numbers) can repeat for 9 spins in a row and can fail to show for 140 spins in a row.
A split (2 numbers) can repeat for 6 spins in a row and can fail to show for 254 spins in a row.
There's a good starting point, right ?
sure is
I did all this 4 years ago and it does make you move to other ideas.
I recently found this:
Play just 1 number, say 13 for 100k and it will be close (+/- 2%) to 1 hit in 37 on average
Play a random number for 100K and it will be close (+/- 2%) to 1 hit in 37 on average
Play the order they came out in (1, 2, 3 etc) and it will be close (+/- 2%) to 1 hit in 37 on average
I will state that the percentage would be +/- 0.5 or better if i run 1 Million spins
I am always playing with this stuff
Quote from: TurboGenius on Jun 02, 05:53 PM 2016
Ran 1 million spins (euro wheel) with RX and looked at the results, might as well be able to add
this as facts to the list :)
14 number appeared above expected, 23 appeared below expected (overall).
The most any number repeated back to back was 4 times. (multiple times, various numbers).
The most spins any number went without showing was 484 spins in row.
A even money bet (low/high/red/black/odd/even) can repeat 23 times.
A even money bet can fail to show for 25 spins in a row.
A 2:1 bet (dozen or column) can repeat 13 in a row and can fail to show for 44 spins in a row.
A street can repeat for 5 spins in a row and not show for 173 spins.
A line (double street) can repeat for 9 spins in a row and can fail to show for 94 spins in a row.
A corner (4 numbers) can repeat for 9 spins in a row and can fail to show for 140 spins in a row.
A split (2 numbers) can repeat for 6 spins in a row and can fail to show for 254 spins in a row.
There's a good starting point, right ?
Thx for the info. I'm following this thread carefully. Feeling like you try to tell us something. .... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Turner on Jun 02, 06:39 PM 2016
I did all this 4 years ago and it does make you move to other ideas.
I recently found this:
Play just 1 number, say 13 for 100k and it will be close (+/- 2%) to 1 hit in 37 on average
Play a random number for 100K and it will be close (+/- 2%) to 1 hit in 37 on average
Play the order they came out in (1, 2, 3 etc) and it will be close (+/- 2%) to 1 hit in 37 on average
I will state that the percentage would be +/- 0.5 or better if i run 1 Million spins
I am always playing with this stuff
I think you need to KTF
Thanks TG
@All: Here is SpinMaster software to aid in
tracking Dozens/Columns, EC's, streets and singles.
Quote from: TurboGenius on Jun 02, 05:53 PM 2016
Ran 1 million spins (euro wheel) with RX and looked at the results, might as well be able to add
this as facts to the list :)
14 number appeared above expected, 23 appeared below expected (overall).
The most any number repeated back to back was 4 times. (multiple times, various numbers).
The most spins any number went without showing was 484 spins in row.
A even money bet (low/high/red/black/odd/even) can repeat 23 times.
A even money bet can fail to show for 25 spins in a row.
A 2:1 bet (dozen or column) can repeat 13 in a row and can fail to show for 44 spins in a row.
A street can repeat for 5 spins in a row and not show for 173 spins.
A line (double street) can repeat for 9 spins in a row and can fail to show for 94 spins in a row.
A corner (4 numbers) can repeat for 9 spins in a row and can fail to show for 140 spins in a row.
A split (2 numbers) can repeat for 6 spins in a row and can fail to show for 254 spins in a row.
There's a good starting point, right ?
That´s what is possible to test. Knowing the probabilities of each outcome, we can extrapolate and make the following conjectures. Sorry for the caps (not meant as shouting):
A even money bet (low/high/red/black/odd/even) can repeat 23 times.
A even money bet can fail to show for 25 spins in a row.
IF RR AND RB HAVE IDENTICAL CHANCES, THEN 23 IS THE NUMBER OF TIMES IN A ROW WE CAN EXPECT TO WIN WHEN BETTING ANY EC SEQUENCE I.E. WHETHER IT´S RRRRRRRRRRR OR RRHREHOBLERBBR OR WHATEVER YOUR SYSTEM/GUT FEELING DETERMINES...
AND 25 THE NUMBER OF TIMES WE CAN EXPECT TO LOSE.
A 2:1 bet (dozen or column) can repeat 13 in a row and can fail to show for 44 spins in a row.
13 IS THEN THE NUMBER OF WINS IN A ROW EXPECTED WHEN BETTING ON ANY DOZEN SEQUENCE. 44 THE NUMBER OF LOSSES IN A ROW. ALSO >13 IS THE NUMBER OF TIMES WE CAN EXPECT TO LOSE BY BETTING ON ANY TWO DOZENS AT A TIME. AND SLIGHTLY <44 THE NUMBER OF WINS IN A ROW (BECAUSE OF THE ZERO).
A street can repeat for 5 spins in a row and not show for 173 spins.
ANY HIT AND RUN SYSTEM THAT BETS ON ALL NUMBERS EXCEPT THREE CAN EXPECT TO WIN SLIGHTLY <173 TIMES.
ETC
Lovely piece of info
Re: Are there really 37 possible outcomes?
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2014, 07:16:12 PM »
This is a test I did in November. I tested over 1 million single zero RNG spins and got this:
2 3210
3 6251
4 9017
5 10906
6 12398
7 12852
8 12454
9 11478
10 10007
11 8619
12 6845
13 5243
14 3857
15 2730
16 1816
17 1128
18 687
19 355
20 246
21 96
22 61
23 29
24 16
25 5
26 3
27 0
28 0
29 0
30 0
31 0
32 0
33 0
34 0
35 0
36 0
The most unique numbers in a row was 25 (The 26 means it hit on the 26th spin, so 25 unique numbers in a row) and this happened only 3 times.
And 7 will be your downfall ;-)
Quote from: Rourke on Jun 03, 09:14 AM 2016
And 7 will be your downfall ;-)
really? why is that?
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 03, 07:36 AM 2016
Lovely piece of info
Here's the same for 30 million spins. Credits to LuckoftheIrish.
2 9799
3 19199
4 26712
5 33099
6 36817
7 38117
8 37424
9 34613
10 30241
11 25616
12 20579
13 15855
14 11481
15 8103
16 5429
17 3428
18 2057
19 1187
20 665
21 372
22 165
23 79
24 35
25 10
26 3
27 0
28 1
I've spent months, day and night to find an optimal system based on these stats, but as one could expect, it always lost in the end.
I also played thousands of real money spins, started to bet after 8-10-12 unique numbers with progression and 1 cent units. 4 or 5 times there was no repeat for more than 20 spins. The progressions were crazy, I often had hundreds of â,¬ downswings, from a 10 cent starting bet... I don't do things like this anymore :) In fact I don't even play anymore, all systems would lose, and losing is no fun to me.
Those statistics are good to see....but how does it help us ?
Building a progression around it? Loses
Wait the extreme to happen and then bet? Could work but tracking could take ages
(Doz repeats 12 times...a number slept 400 times ... etc)
Or betting on what's happening at the moment without looking past spins ....bias, dealer signature, hot stuff........
Quote from: ati on Jun 03, 12:59 PM 2016
Here's the same for 30 million spins. Credits to LuckoftheIrish.
2 9799
3 19199
4 26712
5 33099
6 36817
7 38117
8 37424
9 34613
10 30241
11 25616
12 20579
13 15855
14 11481
15 8103
16 5429
17 3428
18 2057
19 1187
20 665
21 372
22 165
23 79
24 35
25 10
26 3
27 0
28 1
I've spent months, day and night to find an optimal system based on these stats, but as one could expect, it always lost in the end.
I also played thousands of real money spins, started to bet after 8-10-12 unique numbers with progression and 1 cent units. 4 or 5 times there was no repeat for more than 20 spins. The progressions were crazy, I often had hundreds of â,¬ downswings, from a 10 cent starting bet... I don't do things like this anymore :) In fact I don't even play anymore, all systems would lose, and losing is no fun to me.
I have been there too. I guess many have. And so here we are, again on starting point, the place we never left.
Quote from: denzie on Jun 03, 01:42 PM 2016Those statistics are good to see....but how does it help us ?
These statistics will not help you win. But if properly analyzed and understood, they can prevent you to place losing bets.
Exactly. When you have the facts - you can see what "not" to do, just as well as you can see what "to" do.
Quote from: TurboGenius on Jun 03, 05:15 PM 2016
Exactly. When you have the facts - you can see what "not" to do,
Bet?
just as well as you can see what "to" do.
Run?
i was looking at the stats and stats are done like<count spins to first repeat>,yes....but when there is repeat like say we got numbers.....23,33,14,32,1,18,31,14 so here we got repeater on 8 spin and this is number 14 but are there ever any stats being made where about is the other bit of number 14....in other words this is spin 3<or position 3> would be nice to see some stats of it...just thinking out loud
Carry on TG ....
Your students are waiting ;)
maestro
Just a ?, stats.
Do you watch how the non-hit come in 37 or 40 spins?
Whats the longest you've seen, when the 21st non-hit has come in, for one of the remaining 16 non-hit to hit. Me after many years of recording, its 10 spins.
Currently on jackpot game used in KTF its for 100 plus games 9 spins, on a changing 100 games its 7 spins, the 10 spins is on rng.
So theres 2 ways to play.
1. just go for it, like KTF.
2. Wait for the known number seen for it to repeat, then start betting.
Notto maybe you should look at it from another point of view.
Why not go for those repeaters. Iow 2hits going for 3 ....and 3 hits going for 4
I think that's what TG is somehow doing. Or I'm totally wrong. That's possible too. :lol:
But I saw him betting around 6-8 numbers. So can't be 0s or 1s
I've attached a game from Aspers live dealer 2/7/16
Game 1 spins 11-20 get the win, so just watched out the spins, started a new game with #'s from spins 11-20
Game 2 spins 11-20 get the win. Now you know the rule should not be there, but i'm just watching both games as the non-hit are hitting.
I bet the 20 non-hits for a repeat in game 1 and won, just watch.
Its all going good to averages, in game 2 #11 hits 21st non-hit and 25th in game 1. So i'm watching the 21st could have come on spins 31/32,in game 2, so now i go for the 22nd to hit in game2.
Remember i've only seen a max of 10 till its hit, on RNG and 9/7 on jackpot.
Look at the repeats
After the damage of playing for the 22nd non-hit, thoughts turn to how do i turn this around.
Returned later and used MMSIP- Flatino. Got to the top rung of the ladder in that hole and made good the damage.
@Turner , Notto , .....
Do you have stats about 2s become 3s in 37 spin cycles?
And 3s becoming 4s? (Here we probably need more than 37 spins )
There may be math behind 2s to 3s and 3s to 4s
Math guys say bet the hot numbers in 37 spins cycles
This is similar
Quote from: denzie on Aug 08, 09:24 AM 2016
@Turner , Notto , .....
Do you have stats about 2s become 3s in 37 spin cycles?
And 3s becoming 4s? (Here we probably need more than 37 spins )
sorry no
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Aug 08, 09:44 AM 2016
Math guys say bet the hot numbers in 37 spins cycles
Maths......Maths....
you crazy americans
I think TG would agree that he doesnt bet hot numbers in 37, rather numbers that are hitting above expectation that he is using.
Also, he doesnt bet them, he captures them with a big net.
He doesnt bet them, they bet themselves and rewards them with a little pos. progression.
He takes no prisoners though, because any who dont want to play get dropped before they do damage.
Quote from: Turner on Aug 08, 10:05 AM 2016
Maths......Maths....
you crazy americans
I think TG would agree that he doesnt bet hot numbers in 37, rather numbers that are hitting above expectation that he is using.
Also, he doesnt bet them, he captures them with a big net.
He doesnt bet them, they bet themselves and rewards them with a little pos. progression.
He takes no prisoners though, because any who dont want to play get dropped before they do damage.
I know exactly how he plays. He ran off numbers on the multiplayer game
The above expectation numbers
In my opinion its the same chance of winning as betting any other numbers
I enjoy the company of TG
Quote from: denzie on Aug 08, 10:55 AM 2016
I'm listening
Very simple
Bet the numbers that are hot at the moment
Drop them if they arent anymore
Let me add this important fact
A magic wand is waved and a parallel universe is entered where it is not considered using past spins.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Aug 08, 11:00 AM 2016
Very simple
Bet the numbers that are hot at the moment
Drop them if they arent anymore
Oooooooowkay :question:
That's pretty much it . But he starts betting from spin 1... so I guess that is the net he's using. On a hit he probably add a chip (s) .... but when he let some out the net ?
I believe the graph under his avatar is from this:
bet everything and add 1 chip as they win.
At 37 spins, take 1 chip off everything and play another cycle with less numbers
And...I think, a further cycle which will have less numbers.
Its not a viable system in real casino, but its the essence.
Only betting 1 dozen (the 12 numbers) over 3 cycles is playable
Ive tested this and it has mental wins, and mental losses.
There must be more to it, but this is the theory at a base level
Quote from: Turner on Aug 08, 11:10 AM 2016
bet everything and add 1 chip as they win.
At 37 spins, take 1 chip off everything and play another cycle with less numbers
And...I think, a further cycle which will have less numbers.
Its not a viable system in real casino, but its the essence.
Only betting 1 dozen (the 12 numbers) over 3 cycles is playable
Ive tested this and it has mental wins, and mental losses.
There must be more to it, but this is the theory at a base level
I've tested exactly as you said Turner. I didn't lose nor did I win. Was around break even over my sessions. ... so yes there must be more to it.
Quote from: denzie on Aug 08, 11:15 AM 2016
I've tested exactly as you said Turner. I didn't lose nor did I win. Was around break even over my sessions. ... so yes there must be more to it.
Ive no doubt the graph is from what I said....but you wouldnt show the losing ones would you
Quote from: Turner on Aug 08, 11:25 AM 2016
Ive no doubt the graph is from what I said....but you wouldnt show the losing ones would you
Now you lost me :o
what graph?
Quote from: denzie on Aug 08, 09:24 AM 2016
@Turner , Notto , .....
Do you have stats about 2s become 3s in 37 spin cycles?
On average 3 of the 2's become 3's in 37 spins
Quote from: Blood Angel on Aug 08, 12:22 PM 2016
On average 3 of the 2's become 3's in 37 spins
Thx :thumbsup:
Got some stuff to test. Not just follow that method blind. Sometimes we need to chip up more . Anyway. .... testing
First test with the TG(ish) way. played 4 cycles
Quote from: denzie on Aug 10, 11:39 AM 2016
First test with the TG(ish) way. played 4 cycles
ooops i mean 6 cycles
second test
test 3
test 4
lol , i got smited for testing? ok ok ill keep it to myself :thumbsup:
little tweak .... ;) >:D :-X :-X
Quote from: denzie on Aug 10, 01:17 PM 2016
lol , i got smited for testing? ok ok ill keep it to myself :thumbsup:
Embrace the smites
Keep testing
(a girly man with little balls is smiting you)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Aug 10, 01:57 PM 2016
Keep testing
I tested for about 7 hours today. It keeps going up and down. At the end not wurth our time. I must be missing something here. Also came accros few sessions with no third hit :yawn:
Quote from: denzie on Aug 12, 11:12 AM 2016I must be missing something here.
I can't say for sure but TG keeps talking about betting only numbers that hit more than a particular SD.
Quote from: Priyanka on Aug 12, 11:15 AM 2016
I can't say for sure but TG keeps talking about betting only numbers that hit more than a particular SD.
yep, ive been chasing those numbers. Im doing something wrong but what.... :o :P
Also he says he start betting from spin 1 . Coz those are the numbers that are hot for him...so doesnt that mean he uses the first numbers spun ?
Then TG would be talking about chasing hot numbers. Hot numbers arent relevant unless there is bias. Proper bias is done over far more spins. Theres simple proof by checking odds of one or another number spinning after a number appears hot. The odds dont change. There will always be hot and cold numbers with even rng. But it doesnt make any difference.
Quote from: Steve on Aug 12, 12:09 PM 2016
Then TG would be talking about chasing hot numbers. Hot numbers arent relevant unless there is bias. Proper bias is done over far more spins. Theres simple proof by checking odds of one or another number spinning after a number appears hot. The odds dont change. There will always be hot and cold numbers with even rng. But it doesnt make any difference.
Its how TG and the big cats play
Playing numbers that hit "above expectation"
I have no desire to play that way.
When the big cats play this way a parallel universe is entered where it is not considered playing based on past spins. Also, it magically becomes a "method" and not a "strategy" or "system"
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Aug 12, 12:26 PM 2016
Its how TG and the big cats play
Playing numbers that hit "above expectation"
I have no desire to play that way.
When the big cats play this way a parallel universe is entered where it is not considered playing based on past spins. Also, it magically becomes a "method" and not a "strategy" or "system"
In fairness to others, I'm one of FEW that call it a method. Even if I had something that lost lost lost lost....its a method to ME.
Ken
The ROULETTE KING , just before he was banned here made an interesting statement about his observation of the 9th spin from the back and the section surrounding it repeating at the next spin.
His posts had been deleted and he had been banned before one could ask any question.
Just a comment on my part. Could be just another gamblers fallacy. As always , play at your own risk
I deleted bickering.
Denzie is moderated with Ken for a few days
No biggie. Just want to make sure the bickering stops
Quote from: Tamino on Aug 12, 04:08 PM 2016
The ROULETTE KING , just before he was banned here made an interesting statement about his observation of the 9th spin from the back and the section surrounding it repeating at the next spin.
His posts had been deleted and he had been banned before one could ask any question.
Just a comment on my part. Could be just another gamblers fallacy. As always , play at your own risk
Go 9 spins back and bet that section
On my to do
Fair enough :thumbsup:
My apologies for the inconvenience.
:)
1st step in beating roulette
Depending on what you are going to play on, i.e. Live wheel, RNG or airball.
You will need to record the spins, to find out how many spins each non-hit takes to come in.
Whether you record in 37 spin cycle or like me use blocks of 10 spins over 60 spins.
Cut to the chase, betting 27 non-hits on airball (jackpot247.com) max taken to come in, in 228 games is 5 spins and that’s happened once.
So how does that help?
You can wait and see if it goes 4 or 5 spins and then bet, also how many times does your bank roll allow you to bet 27 #’s
Just used Multi-player watched how the non-hits came, just used average from the average document that’s building, made +120 units.
That’s my view
From where I am and my past experience:
1) Learn not to lose your money at the table.
2). Learn to control your emotions at the table.
Don't be a big shoot behind the keyboard and claim you know it all. No-one has been born to know it all.
We all learn something new day in day out.
Quote from: Azim on Aug 13, 06:35 PM 2016We all learn something new day in day out
everyone is a teacher.