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Roulette-focused => Money management => Topic started by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:16 PM 2010

Title: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:16 PM 2010
Hi @all,

in a fever-dream I found this solution:

Always we bet a certain chance we will lose due to the odds.
Always we progress we will lose the progression and our bankroll.

What could be the way out of this hell?

We just progress the progression!

Imagine you had one chip and you bet it on any chance and lose, you have to stop the game. You are busted.

Imagine you had two chips and you bet 1 and lose and bet the last and lose, you are busted.

Imagine you had four chips and bet one, and one and then the last two, you are busted.

So your bet-statistics look as follows:
1
1 1
1 1 2

and you know me as a fan of fibonacci the next row would be
1 1 2 3
1 1 2 3 5

Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:23 PM 2010
The next thing we have to do ist to find a chance which has a progression (or degression) in its payout.

the smallest one would be the dozens, because it pays 3 for 1

and it works:
we bet 1 and win (get back) 3 = +2
we bet 1 1 and win 3 = +1
we bet 1 1 2 and win 6 = +2
we bet 1 1 2 3 and win 9 = +3
we bet 1 1 2 3 5 and win 15 = +3
we bet 1 1 2 3 5 8 and win 24 = +4
we bet 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 and win 39 = +6
and so on

as we know if bet a 1/3 odd we win at 33% in the first bet
and 33% of the remaining 66% in the second bet means 22% in two bets.

Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:34 PM 2010
lets transfer this into a game:

we wanna lose 26 units so we can play up to progression 1 1 2 3 5

Quotebet   Perm   app   units   W/L   Pay   total
   8   D1            
   33   D3   Start         
D1   7   D1   1   G   2   2
D3   12   D1   1   V   -1   1
D3   15   D2   1   V   -1   0
D3   8   D1   1   V   -1   -1
D3   16   D2   1   V   -1   -2
D3   35   D3   2   G   4   2
D2   35   D3   1   V   -1   1
D2   22   D2   1   G   2   3
D3   2   D1   2   V   -2   1
D3   28   D3   3   G   6   7
D1   26   D3   1   V   -1   6
D1   18   D2   1   V   -1   5
D1   22   D2   2   V   -2   3
D1   16   D2   3   V   -3   0
D1   3   D1   5   G   10   10

we wait 2 spins
in the third we bet on the first appeared chance as long as it wins
in a win we bet next on the chance that appeared before the winning bet and so on
we bet until our 26 units are bet and the progression is done.
If we have a win which satisfies us, we can stop earlier
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:38 PM 2010
If we find, that this prog-progession up o 5 is the best for this Chance (doz) we can go and bet 26 units 2, 3, 4 times or more

So you know what to lose
26
52
78
or more units.

every win goes back to your wallet and is not risked anymore

Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:45 PM 2010
this is a chart of a whole day consistently played this progression up to 5
Table 8 Wiesbaden oct.22

Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:49 PM 2010
This is a chart of differnt lenght of progressions
1 1 2 1 1 2 3
1 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 5
1 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 5 1 1 2 3 5 8
1 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 5 1 1 2 3 5 8 1 1 2 3 5 8 13
and so on up to 34

sam table same day
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: mogwai on Oct 23, 05:52 PM 2010
Nevermind!!!

I understood!!!

My Best Regards
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:54 PM 2010
same progression-strategy used whit streets  and lines

Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 05:58 PM 2010
Hi mogwai,

the idea ist following
1 busted
1 1 busted
1 1 2 busted

now we add all three progressionstreaks for a bet up to 2 (3, 5 etc.)
1 1 1 1 1 2 that is our bet! up to two
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 2 3 this is our bet up to 3
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 5 this is our bet up to 5 (fibonacci)

hope this is understandable

br
winkel
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 06:00 PM 2010
and a nother trick:

aas we have won in our first three bets more than 50% of our bets we try to catch this by changing the basic idea to

1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 5


I explained it firstly with 1 1 1 1 1 2 just to explain the basic idea

br
winkel
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: mogwai on Oct 23, 06:04 PM 2010
Yes it is clear now thanks!

What if at the end of 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 5 we are in negative, for example -5 units?

My Best Regards
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 23, 06:27 PM 2010
Hi Mogwai,

this not a strategy is a basics discussion.

If you started a 26 units progression and you end up with -5:

a) go home - you just lost 5 units
b) restart the game and play until plus or total loss
c) try a shorter progression e.g. 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 3 which is bankroll 15

br
winkel
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 24, 04:49 AM 2010
Wiesbaden Table 8 yesterdays spins different progressions-length
Doz lines and streets
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: albertojonas on Oct 24, 11:38 AM 2010
nice thought.

maybe we could apply it to some bet selection...

any suggestion?
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 24, 12:05 PM 2010
It doesnÃ,´t matter which Chance you play, except from EC because there is no help from the payout and except from squares, splits and plein.

Squares and Splits are not defined exactly.
Plein donÃ,´t hit often enough or hit always at the small bets.

I recommend Doz. Col. streets and lines.

It even does matter if you play like me (bet the chance before the last) or if you play consitently one chance (1. doz. / 10/15 / 25-26-27) or always the last one repeated

Again: you donÃ,´t play the chance - You play the progression

br
winkel
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 24, 12:17 PM 2010
Compare the different bets on dozens:

my selection the doz before last
the last doz
only one doz (1 2 or 3)
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 25, 06:38 AM 2010
Results T8 Wiesbaden 2010 10 24
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: GLC on Oct 26, 08:59 PM 2010
Winkel, 

Novel idea.

Am testing it a little on dozens.

Shows some interesting results.

Will need to meditate on this for a while.

GLC
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: Kattila on Oct 27, 06:54 AM 2010
Winkel, what is your opinion about this:

Bet the doz  before last  but with this progression  ?

+1 at win, and  at 3 LLL s  -1

Or same progression but bet the  most hot or middle doz
from the last  8-12  spins  ? and reset to 1unit when in plus.
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Oct 27, 07:17 AM 2010
Hi Kattila,

I donÃ,´t play the doz, I play the progression!
I donÃ,´t progress the units I bet, I progress the length of the progression after every bust!

So I could stop after every plus

br
winkel
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: Kattila on Oct 27, 09:05 AM 2010
Yes i understand Winkel,   i will make some tests  , and  out of this topic
i just asked  your  expert  opinion about that (from above).

thanks
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Nov 07, 02:57 PM 2010
here is my statistic for the first 6 Days Nov wiesbaden T8

only 5 of these theoretical 84 attacks never found a Plus

TvS
Tag Stufe Treffer min max
1 3 87 -127 8
2 3 85 -137 -2
3 3 93 -56 90
4 3 97 -46 69
5 3 96 -100 33
6 3 93 -6 120

1 5 87 -121 23
2 5 85 -181 -2
3 5 93 -59 148
4 5 97 -31 110
5 5 96 -127 28
6 5 93 -8 137

1 8 87 -121 97
2 8 85 -203 2
3 8 93 -166 132
4 8 97 -51 170
5 8 96 -181 29
6 8 93 -10 242

1 13 87 -140 67
2 13 85 -349 -2
3 13 93 -25 195
4 13 97 -169 37
5 13 96 -423 8
6 13 93 -51 360

1 21 87 -145 191
2 21 85 -311 134
3 21 93 -226 257
4 21 97 -171 163
5 21 96 -464 24
6 21 93 -405 123

1 34 87 -232 166
2 34 85 -335 278
3 34 93 -35 659
4 34 97 -34 745
5 34 96 -390 111
6 34 93 -435 111

1 55 87 -1402 2
2 55 85 -644 130
3 55 93 -429 486
4 55 97 -227 569
5 55 96 -1266 28
6 55 93 -11 726


TvP
Tag Stufe Treffer min max
1 3 51 -113 30
2 3 44 -109 54
3 3 50 -21 133
4 3 55 -60 139
5 3 41 -108 15
6 3 49 -12 141

1 5 51 -66 234
2 5 44 -201 45
3 5 50 -141 65
4 5 55 -34 268
5 5 41 -122 44
6 5 49 -12 227

1 8 51 -117 71
2 8 44 -49 186
3 8 50 -85 76
4 8 55 -27 650
5 8 41 -216 67
6 8 49 -62 330

1 13 51 -162 537
2 13 44 -135 337
3 13 50 -271 65
4 13 55 -27 787
5 13 41 -406 53
6 13 49 -91 433

1 21 51 -421 33
2 21 44 -109 393
3 21 50 -204 311
4 21 55 -27 969
5 21 41 -494 156
6 21 49 -392 80

1 34 51 -811 33
2 34 44 -415 436
3 34 50 -151 562
4 34 55 -165 1051
5 34 41 -1007 -2
6 34 49 -215 698

1 55 51 -1177 33
2 55 44 -786 990
3 55 50 -1087 65
4 55 55 -563 340
5 55 41 -310 589
6 55 49 -1606 42


so if you just stp in any Plus you will win longterm

But this is, so I presume, of no interest as well
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: Kattila on Nov 07, 06:52 PM 2010
Winkel I am interested in this idea, but  help me  to understand

We bet for example the penultimate dozen  with this progression(steps):

A.  1 1 2                      if lost   bet B
B.  1 1 2 3                   if lost or bank not in plus  bet C
C.  1 1 2 3 5                if lost or bank not in plus  bet D
D.  1 1 2 3 5 8             if lost or bank not in plus  bet E
E.  1 1 2 3 5 8 13        if lost or bank not in plus  bet F
F.  1 1 2 3 5 8 13 34    we  bet  until in plus then  reset to A ?



Example(bet always the penultimate):

Doz.

2  d2  penultimate
2  last spin  d2  bet  d2,  bet 1u
3  L1  -1/  bet d2 / 1u
1  L2  -2/  bet d2/  2u
3  L3 -4/  Lost step A/ bet d1/ 1u ,  start step B
1  w  -2/  bet d3/  1u
1  L1 -3/  bet d1/  2u
1  w  +1  Reset to A/ bet d1/  1u
2  L1   0  bet  d1/  1u
3  L2  -1  bet  d2/  2u
3  L3  -3  Lost step A/ bet d3/  1u (start B)
1  L1  -4  bet  d3/  1u
2  L2  -5  bet  d1/  2u
1  w  -1   bet  d2/  3u  
1  L    -4  bet  d1/  1u   End step B(but not in plus, start C)
3  L1  -5  bet  d1/  1u
2  L2  -6  bet  d3/  2u
2  L3  -8  bet  d2/  3u
3  L4  -11 bet d2/  5u
2  w  -1    End step C  but not in plus, so start D, bet d3/  1u
2  L1  -2   bet  d2/  1u
1  L2  -3   bet  d2/  2u
1  L3  -5   bet  d1/  3u
1  w  +1   not new profit , so start E  , bet d1/  1u
1  w  +3   new profit  start A.....

I am not sure if I am doing right ....








Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Nov 07, 06:57 PM 2010
Hi Kattila,

as far as I see you did it right.

br
winkel
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: GLC on Nov 07, 07:01 PM 2010
Quote from: winkel on Nov 07, 02:57 PM 2010
Here is my statistic for the first 6 Days Nov wiesbaden T8

only 5 of these theoretical 84 attacks never found a Plus

TvS
Tag Stufe Treffer min max
1 3 87 -127 8
2 3 85 -137 -2
3 3 93 -56 90
4 3 97 -46 69
5 3 96 -100 33
6 3 93 -6 120

1 5 87 -121 23
2 5 85 -181 -2
3 5 93 -59 148
4 5 97 -31 110
5 5 96 -127 28
6 5 93 -8 137

1 8 87 -121 97
2 8 85 -203 2
3 8 93 -166 132
4 8 97 -51 170
5 8 96 -181 29
6 8 93 -10 242

1 13 87 -140 67
2 13 85 -349 -2
3 13 93 -25 195
4 13 97 -169 37
5 13 96 -423 8
6 13 93 -51 360

1 21 87 -145 191
2 21 85 -311 134
3 21 93 -226 257
4 21 97 -171 163
5 21 96 -464 24
6 21 93 -405 123

1 34 87 -232 166
2 34 85 -335 278
3 34 93 -35 659
4 34 97 -34 745
5 34 96 -390 111
6 34 93 -435 111

1 55 87 -1402 2
2 55 85 -644 130
3 55 93 -429 486
4 55 97 -227 569
5 55 96 -1266 28
6 55 93 -11 726


TvP
Tag Stufe Treffer min max
1 3 51 -113 30
2 3 44 -109 54
3 3 50 -21 133
4 3 55 -60 139
5 3 41 -108 15
6 3 49 -12 141

1 5 51 -66 234
2 5 44 -201 45
3 5 50 -141 65
4 5 55 -34 268
5 5 41 -122 44
6 5 49 -12 227

1 8 51 -117 71
2 8 44 -49 186
3 8 50 -85 76
4 8 55 -27 650
5 8 41 -216 67
6 8 49 -62 330

1 13 51 -162 537
2 13 44 -135 337
3 13 50 -271 65
4 13 55 -27 787
5 13 41 -406 53
6 13 49 -91 433

1 21 51 -421 33
2 21 44 -109 393
3 21 50 -204 311
4 21 55 -27 969
5 21 41 -494 156
6 21 49 -392 80

1 34 51 -811 33
2 34 44 -415 436
3 34 50 -151 562
4 34 55 -165 1051
5 34 41 -1007 -2
6 34 49 -215 698

1 55 51 -1177 33
2 55 44 -786 990
3 55 50 -1087 65
4 55 55 -563 340
5 55 41 -310 589
6 55 49 -1606 42


so if you just stp in any Plus you will win longterm

But this is, so I presume, of no interest as well

Winkel,

This is interesting.

The problem I have is that it appears so complicated that I haven't really gotten my mind wrapped around it.

The way I understand it is that you want to pick any bet other than even chances.  Let's pick double streets.
There is a dbl st system published called goldfinger.  He suggests that you pick a dbl st that has hit a couple of times in the last 6 spins and begin betting on it.  
Bet 1 unit and increase by 1 unit until you hit, then reduce your bet by 5 units and continue until you are ahead by 20+ units.

If I use your idea, I would bet 1-1-2.
If still minus I bet 1-1-2.
If still minus, I would bet 1-1-2-3
Then 1-1-2-3-5
Then 1-1-2-3-5-8
Then 1-1-2-3-5-8-13 etc... until I am plus then start over with 1st 1-1-2.

Does this reflect you basic premise or am I way off?

Actually, just typing the above makes me think it's an intriguing way to play Goldfinger.  I think I'll test it when I can.  Right now I'm up to my eyeballs with FLAT's system.  On second thought, this may be an excellent way to bet Flat's system.

Please don't get frustrated with us.  Everything you publish is worth studying.

Believe me, I'm interested.

George

P.S.  Sorry, didn't notice Katilla's post until I had posted mine.

Just tested a little on dbl str and hits come too rarely for 1-1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2-3-1-1-2-3-5 etc...   Keeps hitting on the 1's and 2's and missing on the 8's, 13's and 21's.

It may eventually work, but I think a less steep progression is called for with lines and streets.
Title: Re: Don´t mind the Chance you play, just play the progression
Post by: winkel on Nov 08, 04:17 AM 2010
Hi GLC,

pls note:

The idea is to play the progression! Not a particular chance.

imagine you had a bankroll of 100 Euro.
yor casino has a minimum of 5 Euro.
so you can place 20 units.

Now you can calculate:

select a bet-chance that offers a fast repeat
select a progression-length you wanna play.
length 1 1 2 = 4 units : 5 attacks
length 1 1 2 1 1 2 = 8 units = 2 attacks and 1 attack on 1 1 2
length 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 3 = 15 units = 1 attack and 1 attack on 1 1 2


stop in any Plus!
If bankroll ist placed (20 units) go home!
with no Plus you lost your 20 units
or with wins in between you go home and have not lost your whole BR.

If you have 500 euros or your casino is offering a lower minimum you can calculate other attacks.
e.g. bet up to stage 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21
or bet several times up to stage 1 1 2 3 5 8
the idea is to find a winning streak at once or if it appears later on to have bet with low stacks and win with the high stacks.
If you are unlucky and the late winning streak only wins on the bets 1 1 2 than you just accept and go home with a small recovery of your bankroll

br
winkel