How to improve my strategy
Does anyone have an interesting idea how to improve strategies for 2 dozen bets
I know that I have short term edge playing 2 dozen flat bets on no zero wheel.
I have some such graphs after 10k spins, and look almost same, but in a long run let say 500k its a loser.
What can give even a slight edge to the player.
This strategy is a every spin flat bet. But you can use virtual win after two lost bets will change something for the player?I dont know.
Maybe somebody will advise how to maximize the effectiveness of bet.
It is a minimal change that can cause a minimal increase in edge.
What is best solution from yours experience.
Maybe the labby?
Instead of betting on the 2 dozen (table 24 numbers), bet on 2 sectors of the wheel (24 numbers). Wait for 4 virtual losses and then start betting.
For example
7-28-12-35-3-26-0-32-15-19-4-21
20-1-33-16-24-5-10-23-8-30-11-36
Andre
With all due respect.
How does this increase the effectiveness of the strategy in long run?
You coded it in RX and you know that virtual lose increases the edge?
Yes, this will increase the advantage. Some here will say no. Do your own test on RX and get your conclusions.
I got edge playing 2 dozen bets, I tested many combinations of EC and one dozen bets, the positive result was only with this bet selection plaiyng flat.
I want learn something new . Maybe I dont see something very valueable, what can change little edge.
I dont think that negative progression can change edge in 2 dozen bets . Mayby Im wrong. Its very risky.
There are many options for using virtual lose.
With 2 dozen bets, and can wait for 2 virtual lose, and then play once, or play for the first lose. What is best solution. Mayby someone test best way in long run.
I would think if it passes 10K spins in profit that's a winner.
I test this bet some 10k spins, and almost all look the same, but 500k spins test is a loser.
In reality , only no zero wheel is betvoyager , and have hidden casino edge by 10% fee from winnings.
Only solution is increasing the edge
Quote from: Andre Chass on Nov 17, 07:37 PM 2017
Instead of betting on the 2 dozen (table 24 numbers), bet on 2 sectors of the wheel (24 numbers). Wait for 4 virtual losses and then start betting.
For example
7-28-12-35-3-26-0-32-15-19-4-21
20-1-33-16-24-5-10-23-8-30-11-36
I you use triggers in order to bet after certain Virtual Losses, you should also pause betting at some point, for example after certain Actual Losses or Wins.
These "virtual" approaches delay the complete game and are dependent on past spins and its actions therefor are dependent on future spins. While pausing you might believe to avoid losses but you might as well miss potential wins.
Take any W/L outcome of your virtual strategy and compare it to any other non virtual W/L outcome. Both should be almost identical (=win and loss total count) long term without proving any edge whatsoever.
Bob
Quote from: ozon on Nov 17, 08:16 PM 2017
I test this bet some 10k spins, and almost all look the same, but 500k spins test is a loser.
In reality , only no zero wheel is betvoyager , and have hidden casino edge by 10% fee from winnings.
Only solution is increasing the edge
10k spins is a lot for such a high coverage bet to come out positive so many times. Could you post a 500k graph?
why do you want to bet every spin? you taking yourself to the place where the house likes to beat you... and it will (Think of table limit and limited bankroll)
Quote from: ozon on Nov 17, 07:59 PM 2017
I got edge playing 2 dozen bets, I tested many combinations of EC and one dozen bets, the positive result was only with this bet selection plaiyng flat.
I want learn something new . Maybe I dont see something very valueable, what can change little edge.
I dont think that negative progression can change edge in 2 dozen bets . Mayby Im wrong. Its very risky.
I agree with the above highlighted parts of your post. I have experimented a lot with many, many betting methods that involve 2 dozens (or 2 columns).
And I can quite confidently tell you that with with such 24 number bets, you either make it with flat bets or you don't -- it is as simple as that.
Negative progressions involving 24 number bets are very efficient bankroll killers.
2 x 500k
So it's time to show you the strategies of how to beat the wheel with no zero.
The graphs show not only bet selection, but also something that increases their edge, something that does not seem to work, but still.
We use positive progression
These 2 graphs represent 4 levels
10
15
22
33
We see that we are all zero, but we can gently increase the edge by adding 5 level.
49
However, I am looking for another solution because 10% tax from winning eliminates this strategy.
Trying to mix, several losing concepts in one.
I can not get in touch with my RX programmer, for those who want to check, I recommend to program and do a long test.
My strategy was based on double dozens, but we know that using a zero wheel wheel, we are putting up a high house edge.
The strategies I want to test now are the EC bets.
Bet selection
Always play with trend, Folow the last decision.
The inclusion is that after 2 loses, wait for virtual win, I have old tests where this approach always returns after thousands of spins to zero point, which could mean a delicate edge.
MM
3 step positiv progresion
10
22
49
Most of the tests I conducted on a wheel without zero, and here I am curious how the combination of several concepts worked.
What can we expect?
If at all possible it would work, the edge would be minimum probably would not exceed 1% on no zero wheel.
The best attempt would be to transfer to Europen Wheel, when we have La Partage rule, and house edge only 1.35% for EC.
Another idea for potential theoretical winning strategies
This weekend I read some old posts and found my answer to Falkor post.
He was doing simulations, where he tried to turn the hot numbers and for the best selections he chose when the 11 streets hits will be the last cold one, we play against this one once.
He did the simulations and he probably even had a zero on the wheel.
I thought a little bit to reduce the casino edge and use french roulette and not put on each street separately, but the field bets on high or low, we have a return of the stake from the bets if it falls zero.
The strategy is only suitable for fast spin RNG ideal for building a bot
I still have the idea for a short positive progression that will increase the edge over the casino
A little more combinations.
This time we will choose baccarat, house edge is small and we do not have zero.
We only play Player
After 2 loses wait for virtual win.
MM 4 step positive progression.
10
22
49
110
If I understand you correctly, you're betting against an event. If you don't, skip this post. ;)
The problem with betting against an event is that even though it may seem like a very rare event and you have increased the odds of that event to not happen, you also have increased the odds for the other steets to not hit as well. They are exactly as rare.
An example:
Lets take dozens. We leave out zero for now.
You wait three spins. The dozens that came were 1,2,3. Lets say that you bet against this event from happen again in the next three spins.
The chances of 1,2,3,1 to happen may be rare, but in reality the chance of 1,2,3,2 or 1,2,3,3 to happen are also exactly as rare.
Thats why betting against a pattern or event don't work. That same applies for all outside and inside bets.
That was just an example.
There are other ways to play patterns and events but my advice is never to bet against them.
I try to never play against the event.
The strategies included in this topic are based on a trend game.
I did not write about the betselection I present in the charts, but it's just about playing 2 hottest Dozens.
In the post related to the tests of FAlkor, we also play hot 11 streets, we leave only 1 coldest and play against it once.
I still have a request for someone who is programming in RX.
If he can check how the strategy works from my post, there should not be a lot of work to do.
no zero wheel, with 4 step positive progression for EC bet. , from higher post.
I want to calculate if it gives it any edge and how distant it is from house edge in baccarat.
Ozon, what is good is that you realize that positive progresions are the best ones. About bet selection, yes the trend/hot group is very good bet selection but there are better ones, think how you can have/create a losing sequence and the Ws will come most of the times.
Celescliff,
Bet against a rare event is not bad idea if
you ( not random)are the one who create the rare event . Take this example with splits and tell me what would you bet after that:
Last 12 different splits put into order/pattern 123123123123 .
Also no necesary 12 different with the condition that any from that splits repeat in the same position/group.
Other pattern can be 112233112233
So at the end, are this patterns the same or not with the patterns created by random ....
Quote from: Kattila on Dec 02, 11:53 AM 2017
Celescliff,
Bet against a rare event is not bad idea if
you ( not random)are the one who create the rare event . Take this example with splits and tell me what would you bet after that:
Last 12 different splits put into order/pattern 123123123123 .
Also no necesary 12 different with the condition that any from that splits repeat in the same position/group.
Other pattern can be 112233112233
So at the end, are this patterns the same or not with the patterns created by random ....
Your event you created is absolutley no different from the event that I created in my example above. And both of the patterns you showed also makes absolutley no difference what the next split the ball will land on. The chance for 112233112233 will be exactly as rare whether you gonna bet 1122331122331, 1122331122332 or 1122331122333 in the next spin.
So, in your opinion random will hit After the pattern the same order....112233. Maybe sometimes yes, but most of the times the groups will change the Position, random can not stay in order to much.
Quote from: Kattila on Dec 02, 01:31 PM 2017
So, in your opinion random will hit After the pattern the same order....112233. Maybe sometimes yes, but most of the times the groups will change the Position, random can not stay in order to much.
Since you havent changed any odds the answer is yes. And its not an opinion, its a fact.
I play pattern somewhat myself, but I never play against them since playing against an event will make you bet to many numbers. Ive made simulations of this in the past and the odds dont change a bit.
AGAIN.. slice everything into 4pieces. Play only 9numbers. There is a time when 1piece of slices will SLEEP TIGHT(need patient to wait this moment).. DO NOT try to wake it up, just let it sleep until it feel enough to wake up itself and you'll amaze with her performance after sleep for a long time.. i used 12negative progressions. i already tried to wake it up as a fallacy but it always busted my BR.. need patient but it worth..
I already think about a similar concept.
We can also try to set some rules.
When we start the sessions, we wait 7 cycles.
We will play DS, 7 cycles after 6 spins gives us 42 spins.
After 42 spins, we start betting colddest DS, because the theory is that after about 7 cycles, the coldest sector should start to heat up.
How long do you play such a DS? Mayby 5 hits.
I do not have any ideas for progression
This is only theory.
After reflection, the assumptions of the last post are not good.
Because playing a cold selection, it probably does not have a deep sense.
My trigger always sleeping sector and repeating sector. I won't be greedy so after it wake up, i only need 1win from it, i don't need it to become hottest. Need patient but worth.
Yes, waiting for one win can be ok.
How aggressive progression do you use, something like martingale for 9 numbers sector? How many steps?
Quote from: celescliff on Dec 02, 02:00 PM 2017
Since you havent changed any odds the answer is yes. And its not an opinion, its a fact.
I play pattern somewhat myself, but I never play against them since playing against an event will make you bet to many numbers. Ive made simulations of this in the past and the odds dont change a bit.
Ccliff
I don t play against patterns exception one method, most of the times I play to catch one position ( position/distance between same group of numbers), and I do use similar triggers/patterns like in the other post. If you want to simulate one of my systems I can send you, in real play wins more than lose so far, in long run....don t know.
Quote from: ozon on Nov 17, 07:59 PM 2017
I got edge playing 2 dozen bets, I tested many combinations of EC and one dozen bets, the positive result was only with this bet selection plaiyng flat.
I want learn something new . Maybe I dont see something very valueable, what can change little edge.
I dont think that negative progression can change edge in 2 dozen bets . Mayby Im wrong. Its very risky.
If I play 2 dozens. I wait for the ball to hit a dozen 4 consecutive times then go against it. Most wins come on the 5th spin.
Quote from: Kattila on Dec 03, 05:59 AM 2017
If you want to simulate one of my systems I can send you, in real play wins more than lose so far, in long run....don t know.
If you had asked me that a month ago I would gladly have helped you, but I got my second child a month ago so the little time I can sqweeze infront of the computer I want to focus on me.
I'm sure someone else here that has more time than me can help you out. Sorry.
Today's topic about house edge reminded me of my tests with that bet selection
Which is able to defeat the wheel without a zero
We always play a trend, always playing the last two dozen.
Unfortunately, I did not learn anything special to share this knowledge. I thought that someone would be able to invent something, even if he did not share it.
Playing something more than EC bets on wheel with zero is meaningless, so if you have any interesting options, I'd love to listen to them
Quote from: ozon on Dec 01, 03:24 PM 2017
A little more combinations.
This time we will choose baccarat, house edge is small and we do not have zero.
We only play Player
After 2 loses wait for virtual win.
MM 4 step positive progression.
10
22
49
110
The whole option is how we must achieve the minimum edge increase resulting from the bet selection.
If in some way our edge gently increases and we use this positive progress on the table with la partage rule, we will be able to do something that is theoretically impossible.
I have a question of a strange nature.
I do not believe in hitnrun.
But the situation is puzzling me when, each time we reset our result.
If every time we reset the result, our situation in order to achieve 10 times in a row of a given EC result is greater than our waiting stream of 10 results in an independent.
My question follows why?
My question concerns strategies that give a positive profit at the beginning of the charts.
A part of profits gives us the beginning of the game, but with the posture we start to lose, and
My question is why the mathematical law decides about it
I see that on this forum, everyone has got in the ass of making sure that something works.
If someone with In RX programming skills, will be interested in tests, contact me.
Here I have transformed the old code and obtained such results, they are a non-zero wheel, on the wheel with zero the results are negative, but I have a few ideas that can reduce the house edge almost to zero, unfortunately I do not have the ability to program them
Quote from: ozon on Jan 22, 11:57 AM 2019
I see that on this forum, everyone has got in the ass of making sure that something works.
If someone with In RX programming skills, will be interested in tests, contact me.
Here I have transformed the old code and obtained such results, they are a non-zero wheel, on the wheel with zero the results are negative, but I have a few ideas that can reduce the house edge almost to zero, unfortunately I do not have the ability to program them
Nice results is thus still 2 dozen method?
And are you the same ozon from bet selection forum?
Yes, I use only one nickname.On another forum is me.
This is not 2 dozen bet, I use a smaller sector based on streets.
But the assumptions for using the trend are the same.
I still have two concepts that can improve the results of this strategy, these are not opinions but hard facts confirmed by hundreds of thousands of simulation spins.
I still do not know if they are overwhelmed HE, but it's worth trying
Quote from: ozon on Jan 22, 02:17 PM 2019
Yes, I use only one nickname.On another forum is me.
This is not 2 dozen bet, I use a smaller sector based on streets.
But the assumptions for using the trend are the same.
I still have two concepts that can improve the results of this strategy, these are not opinions but hard facts confirmed by hundreds of thousands of simulation spins.
I still do not know if they are overwhelmed HE, but it's worth trying
I followed you on there on the subject How to get an edge flat betting (in theory) I like the way you think
Winner
Exactly one concept that increases players edge, over the casino is tested in that topic, I had simulations of a few hundred thousand spins with no zero spins and always had an advantage of about 0.60% over the house.
Hi Ozon! And you think you can have this advatage with a 0 wheel too?
Nico
Quote from: ozon on Jan 22, 03:55 PM 2019
Winner
Exactly one concept that increases players edge, over the casino is tested in that topic, I had simulations of a few hundred thousand spins with no zero spins and always had an advantage of about 0.60% over the house.
Fantastic 👍🏼
Only if we can do this with a zero wheels you have the ultimate killer .
In general, I have another concept that uses insidebets and also gives an advantage over HE.
That's why I need a good RX programmer that combines all this into one.
And then it will turn out if it is good to win with HE.
I am very skeptical, I think it will be very difficult to break this boundary.
I am very skeptical about the possibility of breaking the barrier of HE.
But sometimes I try to improve any concepts that showed a positive edge on the wheel without a zero.
I will describe here how I obtained such charts and I will try to combine concepts and extract the best.
In this post, I turned a positive result playing always the last 5 streets with positive progression 1-2-4-8
The second concept that came to me all the time was the graphs from the beginning of this topic.
I've done a lot of positive results playing flat bet on no zero wheel by choosing the last two dozen or hottest dozens.
The next step was to limit the selection, I was wondering how to limit the selection to fewer numbers.
after thinking, I came to the conclusion that if the last 2 dozens give edge it will be the same with columns.
I decided to combine it.
We always play only the numbers that belong to the last two dozen and the last 2 columns, which limits us from the 24 numbers we played before until the 16 we play now.
In the first concept I notice playing 5 streets, that it is the optimal number of numbers , because only they gave such results with positive progression , 15 number
In secound concept we have 16 numbers which gives us very close to the optimum.
What I noticed was the selection of 16 numbers based on 2 last dozens and 2 last columns is very streaky, we have a lot of loses, but also wins what works perfectly with limited 4 step positive progression.
For now I did not have to do the simulation in RX.
I did manual tests on R sim , but dont trust them , too positive for me
Quote from: ozon on Apr 28, 07:50 PM 2019
I am very skeptical about the possibility of breaking the barrier of HE.
But sometimes I try to improve any concepts that showed a positive edge on the wheel without a zero.
I will describe here how I obtained such charts and I will try to combine concepts and extract the best.
In this post, I turned a positive result playing always the last 5 streets with positive progression 1-2-4-8
Thank you for actually describing what it is that you are doing!
I had some time and modified some strategy.
The results were really good, but the tests are on RS which makes them very unreliable.
The strategy consists of waiting, triggers and erroneous beliefs.
Strategy.
We start the sessions, wait 11 spins, record of streets, if we have 6 unhit streets at spin 11, we play unhit streets for 3 spins, stop after win or take loss.
We create EC bets with better conditions.
Alot of empty sessions without triggers, but the results looked really good, in very few cases, we have more than 6 streets, then we add spins so that there are only 6 streets.
Last 5 streets goes from 200k spins winning into losing just from zero number?
I played well in real wheel long time with last 2 double streets sound similar
Yes, zero is the biggest enemy.
Especially when you use positive progression, just a negative edge is reinforced by larger stakes.
Quote from: ozon on May 16, 11:47 AM 2019
Yes, zero is the biggest enemy.
Especially when you use positive progression, just a negative edge is reinforced by larger stakes.
You're biggest enemy is the house edge. And it exits on every number, not just the zeros.
And wobbly wheels if you can find one
General.
I was talking about the same thing, one number too much.
One number too much = -2.7% = house edge
Rather, I would focus on this strategy, which I added today and test it proprely.
What MM would you suggest when we are able to reduce variance for EC bets.
By this I mean that bet selection behaves mildly, there is a bad series, but usually they are less drastic than when playing static bet selection.
In long run playing flat there will probably be no difference because HE will do his job.
But by using some negative MM, we may be able to get an advantage.
What would your advice be?