I was going to call this thread "Building the Holy Grail" but maybe that would be seen as leading to false promises, hence "Building the Optimum System."
The idea is that this thread should be used for ideas that fall into certain criteria. I think that a usable system, if there could be such a thing, should -
a) Consist of a minimum number of spins. After all, what's the use of a 1,000 spin chart, we cannot sit and play such a thing. And I really don't trust/ want to get into the realm of bots.
b) Entail a min bet to max bet ratio. I don't think anyone should be laying 100s of units on one spin, and again it's not practical.
So, how about a maximum of around 74 spins (2*37)?
& an absolute max bet of 5 units? With some systems we may want to increase the amount of numbers played, but never more than 5 units on each.
Now, I have roulette extreme, but have only recently acquired it and so have not mastered the coding yet. If anyone posts ideas, it would be ideal if they could be tested with Rx or something similar, and what we would be looking for is something that shows profit in most trials, and not a large drawdown in trials that never reach above 0. And we don’t need to graph more than around 74 spins, but we need to compare around 100 graphs to see how good the system is. This I would be prepared to do given the correct code!
So let me kick off with one idea I have.
We play 19 numbers. This could be any numbers, but how about the 1st 19 that show, including repeaters?
We then stake according to the “retirement system†(this can be looked up.) Target 6, divisor 6. We round up to the nearest integer. We stop when we reach the target or get to our maximum spins.
The idea behind this being that we have a 19/37 chance to win each spin. On a loss, we lose a bit more than we gain on a win, but this is more than made up for on account that we are rounding up our stake. Could be tricky to code, though?
I'm just thinking out loud here, just throwing idea out there. But you need at least 1 hit every 36 numbers just to break even. More than 1 hit every 36 numbers to profit.
There are many, many ways to play 36 numbers
3 numbers for 12 spins
12 numbers for 3 spins
4 for 9, 9 for 4
6 for 6
1 for 36....etc
Why not mix it up? Raise bet by 1 unit on a loss. Anytime you get 2 hits in a cycle you profit
Quote from: Scarface on May 03, 07:47 PM 2018There are many, many ways to play 36 numbers
3 numbers for 12 spins
12 numbers for 3 spins
4 for 9, 9 for 4
6 for 6
1 for 36....etc
Why not mix it up? Raise bet by 1 unit on a loss. Anytime you get 2 hits in a cycle you profit
This gave me a crazy idea, scarface thx! :) i call it the "scarface-system"
Now begin,
STEP 1. BET the 2 last hit numbers for 18 spins (1u) (at any hit, you re-start, betting the last 2 hit) IF no hit, (within 18 spins) goto Step 2;
STEP 2. ADD A third number; (+current hit number) Re-BET those 3 numbers (and double up) Now, do the next cycle of 12 spins, (at any hit, restart at STEP 1) IF no hit goto step 3.
STEP 3. ADD A fourth number (+current hit number) Re-BET those 4 numbers (and double up) Now do the Last cycle of 9 spins, (at any hit restart at STEP 1) IF no hit, that's GAME OVER.
First test won... :) This progression is not "perfect" ofcourse, but it's Ok,......just a crazy idea!!
Not a bad idea actually...
Just tested and it went ok until step 3 failed. Just for the heck of it I continued a step 4: 6 nrs for 6 spins ( double-up) and a step 5, 9 nrs for 4 (double-up again). Got a hit at step 5, went from -330 to 90, +240 with 8u on nrs. Previous high before fall was 108 at about spin 100.
Could benefit from little adjustments. The most frequent gap is 1, then 2, and so on. Could try by betting last 2 nrs instead of keeping the first 2, the betting the last 3, then 4.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/05/03/temp_689790.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s1tyS)
"The Scarface-system" 4/4 Games won....
WELL. From further testings i got 3 losses in a row, so i guess it was a bad idea. sry. :S (just my luck!)
Quote from: ignatus on May 03, 10:24 PM 2018
WELL. From further testings i got 3 losses in a row, so i guess it was a bad idea. sry. :S (just my luck!)
I read your first comment and noticed your enjoyment !
It was too early to celebrate the HG
DAVEYLIBRA to create a system, all conclusions must be confirmed or refuted in terms of mathematics and physics! and not be an empty sound!
Hi EVS, well I don't think we could ever write a mathematical formula to confirm we will win, no matter what anyone claims.
Here is a maths problem that needs a genius to solve.
Suppose we assume we will win x bets from y spins (EC.) How do we proportion our bets to minimise the stake and ensure we are 1 ahead at some point?
I think something similar to a fixed line Labouchere is required. Eg 100 spins, we aim for 40 wins, x=40, y=100.
I've asked some brainy guys, no-one can solve it!
DAVEYLIBRA roulette is almost always a long distance is negative for the player you are right! but if you want to create everything you can! just need to understand what you're dealing with!
P.S. the flow of your thoughts I like!
DAVEYLIBRA Suppose we assume we will win x bets from y spins (EC.) How do we proportion our bets to minimise the stake and ensure we are 1 ahead at some point?
I think something similar to a fixed line Labouchere is required. Eg 100 spins, we aim for 40 wins, x=40, y=100.
I've asked some brainy guys, no-one can solve it!
in P.S. I did not mean these thoughts.
just always ask people why. if the answer is not worthy of attention, do not believe!
Quote from: daveylibra on May 04, 08:10 AM 2018
Hi EVS, well I don't think we could ever write a mathematical formula to confirm we will win, no matter what anyone claims.
Here is a maths problem that needs a genius to solve.
Suppose we assume we will win x bets from y spins (EC.) How do we proportion our bets to minimise the stake and ensure we are 1 ahead at some point?
I think something similar to a fixed line Labouchere is required. Eg 100 spins, we aim for 40 wins, x=40, y=100.
I've asked some brainy guys, no-one can solve it!
Exactly! There has to be a way to create an algorithm or mathematical formula to solve this.
They say 60 wins out of 200 is the worse you'll see for an even bet....based on over 10 million simulations. So, if we know we can get 60 wins per 200 spins there has to be a way to determine a way to use a progression safely with this ratio.
So, there is no math guys here that can figure the out? The catch is that whatever it is, it will have to work no matter where those 60 wins fall in 200 spins.
Quote from: Scarface on May 04, 11:44 AM 2018
Exactly! There has to be a way to create an algorithm or mathematical formula to solve this.
They say 60 wins out of 200 is the worse you'll see for an even bet....based on over 10 million simulations. So, if we know we can get 60 wins per 200 spins there has to be a way to determine a way to use a progression safely with this ratio.
So, there is no math guys here that can figure the out? The catch is that whatever it is, it will have to work no matter where those 60 wins fall in 200 spins.
Well the problem isn’t in the number of wins one can achieve, the problem is in the order of wins ... and so far there is no mathematical model that can deal with chaotical order of wins sparsed over a range of spins
There really seems like there should be a mathematical model for problems similar to this. If someone can come up with a model on 60/200 that works no matter where the 60 wins fall, I would call that a Holy Grail
Quote from: Scarface on May 04, 12:09 PM 2018
There really seems like there should be a mathematical model for problems similar to this. If someone can come up with a model on 60/200 that works no matter where the 60 wins fall, I would call that a Holy Grail
Put mathematics aside ... can you tell me how should the progression comes ahead with this output :
W
L
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W=60
L=140
Noway!
Maybe progression only can t , but good Lw strategy + progression yes can,
many times.
Why not avoid most of the times the long L runs ?
I did beat many bad sessions (not all of course) using LWs stratg. and was bad
bet selection, imagine with good bet selection and possitive progression , rise when
win and down when lose. Bet on every spin is a bad idea...
W trigger
L1
L2 stop
L virtual
W tr
L1
W real
L virtual all...
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
W tr
W real
W tr
W real
W tr
See any chart ...there are always ups and downs , also few *patterns*
V, W, M....no chart without this ones.
W translated on LW ......example ...LLLWWWLLLWWW...or LLLWWLLLWW..or....
M translated on LW ....ex.....WWWLLWWLLL ...or....WWLLLWWWLL..or....
Yes i know..we need few Ws in row or WLW or WLLWLW or WLLLWW..etc...
This is the Lw strategy seen on chart (Ign 1/ please zoom) when win start to bet , when lose stop bet.
I don t say it helps always, but help so many times, really. So are enter and exit point totally useless?
I don t think so....at least avoid sometimes bad runs (Ls)or very bad runs.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on May 04, 12:45 PM 2018Quote (selected)
Quote from: Scarface on May 04, 04:09 PM 2018
There really seems like there should be a mathematical model for problems similar to this. If someone can come up with a model on 60/200 that works no matter where the 60 wins fall, I would call that a Holy Grail
Put mathematics aside ... can you tell me how should the progression comes ahead with this output :
W
L
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W=60
L=140
Noway!
The attached image shows a betting calculation based upon previous spin result. The problem is related to minimum and maximum bet allowed, bet rounding and return rate. In the example you posted, return rate is positive but it decreases by increasing total number of spins. In other words 8 wins vs 18 losses isn't the same than 60 wins vs 140 losses. The winning rate percentage is the same but the return rate decreases dramatically.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on May 04, 12:45 PM 2018
Put mathematics aside ... can you tell me how should the progression comes ahead with this output :
W
L
L
L
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
W
W
W
W=60
L=140
Noway!
I know over 200 spins the worse ratio I could get is a 1/3 hit rate for an even bet. With the example you gave it would be quite easy. I would flatbet until I get a win...once I get a win, if the bitrate is below that expectation then I raise the bet until the next win...always raising after a win. Your example with a string of losses followed by a short string of wins would be easy to progress without the progression getting to high.
The type of win/loss ratio I worry about would be more like
W
L
L
L
L
W
L
L
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
L
W
W
L
But to answer your question on the example you gave...if I expect a string of wins after such a long string of losses I could parlay my winnings...so I could flatbet 1 unit the whole time, and if I won parlay...in your example with 5 wins at the end would turn 1 unit to 32, and would win this
There are two ways even bets can fall. It can be choppy like WLLLLWLLWLLLW. Or it can be long strings like this...WLLLLLLLLWWLLLLLLWWWW.
The choppy sessions could be overcome easily with a simple progression like 1-1-2-4.
The long string sessions could be easily won with parlaying winnings.
I'm thinking it may take a little of both to overcome the session from hell like 60/200. Even though this is a once in a 10 million worse case event...if it can be overcome Roulette can be beaten
Let's say you have a win ratio of only 20 in the first 100 spins. Well, you can expect a win ratio of at least 40 in the next 100 (for the 60 total). What does that tell you? To me, with 40 out of 100 spins, I should expect some of those wins to be back to back...so parlay would work great for this
If we write: bet = target x ( expected wins left / spins left )
1st bet 1unit
2nd bet (if lose), target =1unit, and we start to use the formula to recover the target.
This formula would give us our 1unit back eventually, but we would have to get to the end of all our spins, eg 200 in the 60/200 example.
One more thought, I know past spins mean nothing and all that, but if we wait for 4 blacks or whatever, then we are looking at 60/195, and use that in our equation. We would, I guess, round up to the nearest integer, or 0.5? Which would maybe give us our target before the 195.
So much to think about...
Sorry, I mean 4 blacks would bring us down to 196... you get the idea.
Kattila is right
I used to run simulations of a simple bet selection on black but I just used stop after 2 losses and virtual win
The sessions lasted for a thousands spins, and the variance was as if less than random selection.
I think I even played short sessions with hitnrun and this flat bet with good results.
Adding to this well-developed positive progression could result in something really interesting.
DAVEYLIBRA you say : " I know past spins mean nothing".Why? what case?
Quote from: evs on May 08, 01:20 AM 2018
DAVEYLIBRA you say : " I know past spins mean nothing".Why? what case?
Once you sit down at the Table present and future spins do matter.
Good morning from An already Hot Holland :sad2:
Was Just thinking.
Why not bet this way?
1. Spin until you Have your First repeater.
2. Add every (2) repeats until one of those got hit and become a (3).
3. Once a (2) becomes a (3) we get rid of All the (2s) and continue with only the (3s) and add them as they come until one of them becomes a (4) etc etc.
5. The further you get, the lesser numbers you need to play.
The only problem is the progression.
I think this can work but it needs a Special progression that would cover the losses and bring us to a new High in a betselection or two?
Here Comes math around the corner.
We need to calculatie what to bet next and how High.
Remember that Turbo said, you can play this All day every day. So it's got to be a simple staking plan of some sort.
Just thinking.
Have a Nice day.
Just testing:
Maybe 1 unit on All 2s when they come.
As soon as a 2 became a 3 we stop betting on All the 2s and put 2 unit on the 3 and do this for every 3 that comes.
When a 3 becomes a 4 we stop betting All the 3s and play only the 4 with 4 units on it and every 4 there after.
After a 4 becomes a 5 we stop betting All 4s and place 8 units on the 5 and All 5s there after. When a 5 becomes a 6 we stop betting on All 5s and continue on the 6 with 16 units on it and 6s after that. Ones a 6 becomes a 7 we stop betting on all 6s and play the 7s with 32 units and All 7s after that.
When a 7 becomes a 8 we stop again and play only the 8 with 64 units on it and All 8s after that.
There must be some Point during these 150-200 spins that er Have reached at least 1 profit Point?
As soon. As we have our First profit we start over by collecting All the 2s again.
Any thought? TG or Priyanka?
If i remember corectly, it was Priyanka Who had tested this for More then 1M spins and didn't lose with it. Further more i thought also she had a excel sheet for this, what to bet and when to bet?
When betting on only 4s a number may hit from 1s and come to 4s hitting 3 times. U gonna miss that miss 100 unit of profit.
Quote from: Madi on May 08, 06:30 AM 2018
When betting on only 4s a number may hit from 1s and come to 4s hitting 3 times. U gonna miss that miss 100 unit of profit.
Yes i'm aware of that. But as Long as i can Make a profit during a session, it doesn't matter what i Have lost on other numbers but only profit on one of Mine is what i'm after. We can't bet on All numbers. And like Turbo said, the list with numbers to bet is getting smaller and smaller as you progress. That got my intention. And this way we are playing the Hot numbers All the Time.
A session ends as soon as we are in profit. And start from scratch again.
When a bankrole wipeout u lost couple of hundred units so making 1 unit profit theoritically will take long to recover and inbetween u might lose again that u take months to recover
Quote from: jekhb76 on May 08, 06:34 AM 2018
And like Turbo said, the list with numbers to bet is getting smaller and smaller as you progress. That got my intention. And this way we are playing the Hot numbers All the Time.
U got it wrong. The total number to bet remains the same from spin 1 to 100. The shape of the chart becomes a cone and hottest remain on top.
Quote from: Madi on May 08, 07:01 AM 2018
U got it wrong. The total number to bet remains the same from spin 1 to 100. The shape of the chart becomes a cone and hottest remain on top.
25 sessions played, 25 session won.
SESSION 01: +29 units (3rd came on spin 13 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 02: +30 units (4rd came on spin 35 with 2 3s bet)
SESSION 03: +19 units (3rd came on spin 16 with 3 2s bet)
SESSION 04: +14 units (3rd came on spin 21 with 4 2s bet)
SESSION 05: +15 units (3rd came on spin 17 with 3 2s bet)
SESSION 06: +8 units (3rd came on spin 17 with 4 2s bet)
SESSION 07: +27 units (3rd came on spin 17 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 08: +35 units (3rd came on spin 12 with 1 2s bet)
SESSION 09: +1 units (3rd came on spin 24 with 4 2s bet)
SESSION 10: +29 units (3rd came on spin 15 with 1 2s bet)
SESSION 11: +9 units (3rd came on spin 22 with 4 2s bet)
SESSION 12: +10 units (3rd came on spin 19 with 3 2s bet)
SESSION 13: +516 units (7th came on spin 76 with 1 7s bet)
SESSION 14: +56 units (6th came on spin 86 with 2 5s bet)
SESSION 15: +10 units (3rd came on spin 24 with 5 2s bet)
SESSION 16: +107 units (7th came on spin 103 with 2 6s bet)
SESSION 17: +8 units (3rd came on spin 16 with 5 2s bet)
SESSION 18: +27 units (3rd came on spin 14 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 19: +33 units (3rd came on spin 12 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 20: +23 units (4th came on spin 34 with 4 3s bet)
SESSION 21: +28 units (3rd came on spin 16 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 22: +5178 units (11th came on spin 205 with 2 10s bet)needed to bet 256 units per #
SESSION 23: +20 units (4rd came on spin 35 with 2 3s bet)
SESSION 24: +2 units (3rd came on spin 22 with 5 2s bet)
SESSION 25: +34 units (3rd came on spin 8 with 1 2s bet)
256 unit per number? Anyway whats ur bank required ?
Quote from: Madi on May 08, 07:29 AM 2018
256 unit per number? Anyway whats ur bank required ?
I know, that's too high.
But it is just a test, to see if we can always win.
I think MM is the key here.
I was down over 7000 units when i needed to bet 256 per number.
We need to work on our MM, to make the ultimate roulette killer.....
Here are 10 more sessions, all won. now 35/35.
SESSION 26: +33 units (3rd came on spin 5 with 1 2s bet)
SESSION 27: +20 units (3rd came on spin 16 with 4 2s bet)
SESSION 28: +34 units (3rd came on spin 10 with 1 2s bet)
SESSION 29: +1 units (5th came on spin 55 with 4 4s bet)
SESSION 30: +33 units (3rd came on spin 11 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 31: +33 units (3rd came on spin 9 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 32: +1328 units (11th came on spin 239 with 2 10s bet)needed to bet 256 units per #
SESSION 33: +24 units (3rd came on spin 15 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 34: +24 units (3rd came on spin 17 with 2 2s bet)
SESSION 35: +65 units (5th came on spin 84 with 2 4s bet)
Maybe also An option is as soon you get a hit and not in profit, you Keep the numbers intact and their value. Because other numbers Will try to match up.
Ex.
You Have 4# with 8u on them and you get a hit on one of those 4# and you're not in profit, you now continue with the same numbers and their value, and adding every new # number that matches their hits to the list and their value and continue until you get another hit. Etc.
Will test this also for 25 sessions later today when i Have more Time.
Just brain stroming. I don't Have the awnser , wish i had. Maybe some other members can push us in the Right direction. :question:
Hi
-I would look at ways of keeping the amount of numbers being bet and for how long down as the killer is betting to many numbers for to long. The odd missed number is worth it in the long run.
-I wouldnt go so high with a progression (unit wise)
-Betting at two level of hits might be worth it sometimes.
A small amount of flexibility is needed :thumbsup:
Quote from: ArmitageShanks on May 08, 09:34 AM 2018
Hi
-I would look at ways of keeping the amount of numbers being bet and for how long down as the killer is betting to many numbers for to long. The odd missed number is worth it in the long run.
-I wouldnt go so high with a progression (unit wise)
-Betting at two level of hits might be worth it sometimes.
A small amount of flexibility is needed :thumbsup:
Hey
You appear to have good experience in money management and risk analysis ... good job !
Listen, you added some nice tips and ingredients for a well cooked game !
The question that pops up in my head, what if you have a system that requires betting 17 numbers.. is this too much for you ?
Let’s put more questions on the table in hope for better brainstorming ... what about 7 steps marti progression for these 17 numbers ... is this viable according to you ?
Let’s suppose that after too many days of tests, you came to the conclusion that 7 steps marti has never been violated ... you should now decide what stakes are you willing to risk .. would you start with lowest stake possible or go as highroller ?
I'll have to come back to this in a day or two as just on my way out but quickly
1. i wouldnt(or couldnt) bet 17 numbers with this method
2. I dont have a set amount of steps in the progression.
Now if your looking at betting on 2's to 3's and so on yes hopefully you'll get these wins early and not need to go 140/200 spins but if needed then surely you'll be on a few numbers by that point that are hitting above expectation.
Any guru here can answer my questions?
Appreciated !
Quote from: jekhb76 on May 08, 07:58 AM 2018
Maybe also An option is as soon you get a hit and not in profit, you Keep the numbers intact and their value. Because other numbers Will try to match up.
Ex.
You Have 4# with 8u on them and you get a hit on one of those 4# and you're not in profit, you now continue with the same numbers and their value, and adding every new # number that matches their hits to the list and their value and continue until you get another hit. Etc.
Will test this also for 25 sessions later today when i Have more Time.
Just brain stroming. I don't Have the awnser , wish i had. Maybe some other members can push us in the Right direction. :question:
JEK, give this a try...
First cycle of 36 spins bet 1 unit on every number that hits and add a unit every time it repeats.
Second cycle of 36 spins you first remove all the numbers with only 1 unit on them keep all the 2`s, 3`s etc and double your bet on all of them. You only play these numbers for the entire second cycle and also add a unit to each of these numbers when they hit.
Third cycle of 36 spins you first remove all the numbers with only 4 units on them keep the rest and double your bet on all of them. You only play these numbers for the entire third cycle and also add a unit to each of these numbers when they hit.
I know you like to restart when in profit and I am pretty sure you will have your profit somewhere within in these 3 cycles or else you could just play out the cycles... :thumbsup:
I think it's best to return to the basics one More Time......
There is a beautiful post from turbo of February 1 last year. The basics is All here. But it is also were i and Most of us are lost at the End.
Anyway, here is the post:
------------------------------------
I'll use another example but you'll have to use your imagination for some parts, don't worry - it will make sense when you're done reading.
We walk up after someone plays a session of 38 spins (0/00 wheel)
Lucky for us we can see every spin that happened in that session.
(I'll just run these off RNG just for the sake of explanation)
13 numbers never appeared
17 numbers showed up once
5 numbers showed up twice
1 number showed up three times
2 numbers showed up four times.
I can simplify this if it helps :
13 numbers never appeared.
25 numbers showed up at least once
8 of those numbers showed up at least twice
3 of those numbers showed up at least three times
2 numbers showed up four times.
But anyway - either way it's the same.
So I look at you and say "If you could go back in time and play these same spins, what would you do ?" and here I have a time machine (how convenient - I told you there's some imagination here)
Now you're going to give me some obvious answers I hope ?
You wouldn't bet a single thing on the 13 numbers that never appeared (why on earth would you ?)
You "could" bet on the numbers that showed up only once - but you would lose on those numbers
exactly at the house edge - so a bit silly of an idea. But that's up to you.
You Certainly would bet on the numbers that showed up twice - those 5 numbers would be a nice profit maker.
You Most Certainly would bet on the numbers that showed up three times ! - very nice profit from those.
And you would be a fool not to bet on the numbers that showed up four times !
So what kind of money would you put on them ?
Well, common sense would tell you that they all make profit regardless - but my time machine isn't going to be around in the future so you're going to have to make some choices.
You'll bet a minimal amount on the numbers that had 1 show
You'd bet more on the 2 show numbers
You'd bet even more on the 3 show numbers and
You'd bet a LOT on the 4 show numbers... This is a aggressive progression
and you're not worried because with the time machine you can't lose.
So all of this makes sense - and the naysayers can say "well we don't have a time machine".
And guess what - you don't need one.
I made this clear in other posts - those numbers that appeared 4 times were numbers that had appeared 3 times.
Those numbers that appeared 3 times were only numbers that appeared 2 times
and the numbers that appeared 2 times were only numbers that appeared once.
All of the numbers that never appeared ? They never appeared.......
Use the same logic on the next 38 spins that you don't know.... correct ? It's not rocket science.
You can say "There's no way of knowing the next spin..." and that is correct.
You can say "There's no way of knowing that a number with 1 show is going to be a number that has 2 or more shows" - and that is correct. BUT - the only numbers that will have 2 shows are numbers that appeared once. See ?
Steve rightly said that systems are useless.. "If accuracy of bet selection doesn't increase, no progression can consistently win."
Now your accuracy just increased (and greatly).
As a matter of fact - by NOT betting on numbers that never show you are no longer playing/winning/losing at the house edge.
You can test this - it's not hard to do. I did it at the other forum as an example.
Play every number on the table for 38 spins - you'll end at the house edge.
Play every number on the table but only once it shows - you won't end at the house edge.
Play every number on the table but only after it shows twice - again - you won't win/lose at the house edge.
You can continue this on for quite a while.
The "house edge" on a 38 pocket wheel is 2 numbers.
If you play every number on the table for 38 spins, you will be down 2 units - this is the house edge.
However - if you play every number Except for the last 2 numbers that end up appearing (this could be 150 spins or more ? it varies) You never play at the house edge at all.
For those who want to test things - there's where to begin.
The aggressive progression not only covers the numbers that appear "at average" if you choose to play them - it boosts your profits beyond flat betting and does not involve chasing a loss or digging out of a hole - it's not a negative progression, it's a positive one based on wins.
Thanks for reading, I can only hope this sinks in - and if not then you're on your own.
Quote from: ZERO on May 08, 10:34 AM 2018
JEK, give this a try...
First cycle of 36 spins bet 1 unit on every number that hits and add a unit every time it repeats.
Second cycle of 36 spins you first remove all the numbers with only 1 unit on them keep all the 2`s, 3`s etc and double your bet on all of them. You only play these numbers for the entire second cycle and also add a unit to each of these numbers when they hit.
Third cycle of 36 spins you first remove all the numbers with only 4 units on them keep the rest and double your bet on all of them. You only play these numbers for the entire third cycle and also add a unit to each of these numbers when they hit.
I know you like to restart when in profit and I am pretty sure you will have your profit somewhere within in these 3 cycles or else you could just play out the cycles... :thumbsup:
Never looked at it this way, thanks.
Will Have a go at it later tonight.
But the one thing that i worry about is that we won't Have a profit Point, and that we are in debt and in a big big hole after 3 cycles. But i'll give it. Go. :thumbsup:
Exactly jek !
They say “when you are in hole, stop diggingâ€
:)
I already thought that one of the optimal options was explained in this post
Passion Ruleta
I gave you several ideas but you have not read my comment, hehehe.
Take the repeated that there are in 24 balls and play with the progression 1-3-9, as soon as you have a benefit leave those repeated and take the repeated ones that there are in the last 24 balls and play till have another benefit and so on ... You will see how long you always want, because you always catch the new hot ...
Another option take all the repeated up to 37 balls and play with them with the progression 1-3-9 until the 74 ball and eliminate those that follow 2 and take and play all 3 with the progression until the 111 ball.
If you have a good profit on the 74 ball or before it returns to restart but continues until the 111 with those of 3 or more with the progression, but a number that has 9 chips does not go up to more chips, it remains with 9.
You will always have before the 74 ball or before the 111 benefits.
If you do not realize what happens, look at the law of radioactive decay and you will see what it explains.
Anything you tell me and tell me if it is true that I know what Turbo does or not, that I already told you.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on May 08, 10:45 AM 2018
Exactly jek !
They say “when you are in hole, stop diggingâ€
:)
... and a marti on 17 numbers is like digging a canyon!
:)
I played only the first options, target profit 400 units under 250 spins, if something exceeded 250 spin, and it did not reach 400, I took first new high.
For this you need a tracker, I used 2 at once.
Now the most important question, which I have not yet determined, whether to accept the loss of -1000 units, when minus exceeds it, or continue to recover?
Quote from: ZERO on May 08, 10:53 AM 2018
... and a marti on 17 numbers is like digging a canyon!
:)
Well, since the earth is round like chicken’s egg, if you keep digging you will definitely come out the other part of the sphere ... isn’t it so ? :(
Quote from: ozon on May 08, 10:51 AM 2018
I already thought that one of the optimal options was explained in this post
Passion Ruleta
I gave you several ideas but you have not read my comment, hehehe.
Take the repeated that there are in 24 balls and play with the progression 1-3-9, as soon as you have a benefit leave those repeated and take the repeated ones that there are in the last 24 balls and play till have another benefit and so on ... You will see how long you always want, because you always catch the new hot ...
Another option take all the repeated up to 37 balls and play with them with the progression 1-3-9 until the 74 ball and eliminate those that follow 2 and take and play all 3 with the progression until the 111 ball.
If you have a good profit on the 74 ball or before it returns to restart but continues until the 111 with those of 3 or more with the progression, but a number that has 9 chips does not go up to more chips, it remains with 9.
You will always have before the 74 ball or before the 111 benefits.
If you do not realize what happens, look at the law of radioactive decay and you will see what it explains.
Anything you tell me and tell me if it is true that I know what Turbo does or not, that I already told you.
I know, but Both failed in the End.
Not the optimum System. The thoughts were good, but it failed in the long Run. I've tested them Both in rx.
That's why i said that we need to go back to the basics of the turbo's post about the Time machine! :thumbsup:
We need to search for a System that Always brings profit at some Point.
Doesn't Have to be a HG only the following criteria needs to be met.
1. Not to Large bankroll. Max 10.000 units.
2. Max. Play hours 8
3. Playable in a BM casino.
4. Not too many numbers played at the same Time.
5. Profit needs to be between 50-250 euro/dollar at the End of the day. 8 hours work day Max.
6. Can't loose! So we need the math where Turbo was talking about.
Failute isn't An option. You don't play 8 hours a day Max and go home emptt ended. It must bring these profits every day, 5 days a week.
There must be some method that can provider this endless.
Quote from: jekhb76 on May 08, 11:20 AM 2018
I know, but Both failed in the End.
Not the optimum System. The thoughts were good, but it failed in the long Run. I've tested them Both in rx.
That's why i said that we need to go back to the basics of the turbo's post about the Time machine! :thumbsup:
We need to search for a System that Always brings profit at some Point.
Doesn't Have to be a HG only the following criteria needs to be met.
1. Not to Large bankroll. Max 10.000 units.
2. Max. Play hours 8
3. Playable in a BM casino.
4. Not too many numbers played at the same Time.
5. Profit needs to be between 50-250 euro/dollar at the End of the day. 8 hours work day Max.
6. Can't loose! So we need the math where Turbo was talking about.
Failure isn't An option. You don't play 8 hours a day Max and go home empty handed. It must bring these profits every day, 5 days a week.
There must be some method that can provider this endless.
Hi Jek
The Feb 1st Turbo post sounds good but the house edge is not "reduced to 0."
It may be that profit/loss did = 0 for a particular run, but, so?
Check my "Turbo's Repeaters Simulations" post.
Run the BASIC program. End results, sometimes good, often bad.
Unfortunately I can program a bit in BASIC, but not rx.
And I'm not saying that there is not a god repeater system, I'm just querying that particular post.
Still, I think that what I wrote about Passion Ruleta's post is the most important signpost in what has been written about repeaters on these forums.
We have repeaters
We have gap (in my case 22 spins) and rolling basis.
Which means we're currently playing hot numbers, if they stop being hot, we stop playing them.
This is the basis, it is hard to come up with something more optimal for the bet selection about hot numbers
Now we can only combine with progression
I think 1-3-9 is very good
Variable is whether we will switch to the first profit or we will hunt for a big win, just like TURBO, target profit over 1000 units, and stop lose I think 1000 units
Quote from: daveylibra on May 08, 11:57 AM 2018
Hi Jek
The Feb 1st Turbo post sounds good but the house edge is not "reduced to 0."
It may be that profit/loss did = 0 for a particular run, but, so?
Check my "Turbo's Repeaters Simulations" post.
Run the BASIC program. End results, sometimes good, often bad.
Unfortunately I can program a bit in BASIC, but not rx.
And I'm not saying that there is not a god repeater system, I'm just querying that particular post.
I think MM and the kind of progression is the key including what to bet, when. To bet and when to drop and when a nr returns. He says that when using the Right math, it can't loose. Sure it loses before it wins, that's naturaly, otherwise you can't bet. There is Always First a drawdown before profit.
Let's think Turbo way;
Before everyone gets on my Back, i don't say it is how turbo's working, Just my thought about what and how to use the math.
Let's take the 1-5-25-50-100-150 progression. This is a huge progression Table wich required a big bank.
What we have learned from the Time machine post is that Turbo does indeed or can bet on numbers that Have shown only once. Not by bet, too many numbers for my Taste and the change that we will Run into a +21 spin before we have a hit, is Always on the lookout. But following the Time machine post we bet on every number that shows with 1 unit. We continue until one of our numbers got hit, No that number is a two. We All know, well let's asume that 37 out 37 won't happen during our Life time. Let's say we have a minimum of 4 repeats in our cycle of 37 spins. That happens i've had alot of sessions where i only had 4 2s and No 3s.
Who says Turbo is using the progression of 1-5-25 for that matter in this sequence????
My understanding is when a cycle is dragging along too Long Without a repeat that he has calculated what the higher First bet must be, to cover our previous losses??? Just thinking out loud. I can imagine that when you've got your First repeat at spin 23 for example you won't place a 5 unit bet on the number that has Just turned a 2!!! This won't result in a profit. What if he starts now with a higher bet of 25 instead of 5 units. Knowing that in the remaining 14 spins, he will get atleast 3 More hits???????
Again Just thinking out loud.
Remember a progression can be used in All kinds of formaat. It don't Have to be An up goin' sequence of 1-2-3-4-5
It can also be used as a 4-3-5-1-2 for example. It could well be that Turbo is playing like this when nessesary and we are all looking at the Traditional way of playing. But it don't Have to be like that when the cercumstances ar not in line with how you would like to play.
Mmmmm :question: :ooh:
Just thinking.....
What if we Shuffle the progression crap and start flatbetting.
Only 2s becoming 3s ???
:ooh:
Here's what I've been up to lately:
Let's pretend a perfect shot is one unit on one nr and a hit. 36x bet.Maximal profit possible, perfect.
Ley's say "progression 2" is to bet on 2 nrs, so on.
Now, unlike d'alembert +1/-1, keep it flat, add nrs as they come. On a hit: remove the oldest nr.
On hits, yournext bet is reduced of one unit. On good games you'll be up 100 or 200u, sometimes betting 16 nrs, then a few spins later 12, 10, back and fort in the "progression". You can stay below 18 nrs for quite a while.
There are 3 steps in this type of game:
1) stop at desired goal (50,100,200u);
2) stop at 18 and see if in profit;
3) and step 3.
Step 3 is a grind. Only remove the old nr when you won more than bet. 19: 2 hits then reduce. Up to 24: 2 hits.
25 to 27: 3 hits.
28: 4 hits.
29 to 30: 5 hits.
31: 7 hits.
32: 8 hits.
33: 11 hits
34: 17 hits
35: 35 hits. Stop.
Eventualy, if unlucky in the beginning, luck comes back. As hits are added the floor ( max loss of 630) goes up and you cannot lose more than this.
In 15 games I got one at 400, a few at 200 and if gone to step 3 it always came back. Suggest stop step 3 as soon as profit. Just to test, the worse loss if co tinued to 35 nrs was 155.
It seems to be a well adapted alembert-ish prog with inbuild max loss.
I'll show games when back home.
Quote from: ozon on May 08, 10:51 AM 2018
look at the law of radioactive decay and you will see what it explains.
I append a picture of the "radioactive decay" of the nonhits and its products.
I created this picture with own calculations, any similarities to other pictures are unintended and never meant to be a clone. O0
U always refer turbo said this turbo said that. Do u actually follow what he said??
Quote from: Madi on May 08, 04:02 PM 2018
U always refer turbo said this turbo said that. Do u actually follow what he said??
Yes i do actualy.
But following him, reading his posts, doesn't mean i understand everything .
What progression r u using and wht he recommend?
How many numbers r u playing and and what he recommends
Quote from: jekhb76 on May 08, 04:06 PM 2018
Yes i do actualy.
But following him, reading his posts, doesn't mean i understand everything .
then you are obsessed with him... wake up
Quote from: Herby on May 08, 02:47 PM 2018
I append a picture of the "radioactive decay" of the nonhits and its products.
I created this picture with own calculations, any similarities to other pictures are unintended and never meant to be a clone. O0
Whats this graph actually show? What does each line represent? Cheers
MM and my thoughts.
Just take a percentage of your pot and call it your BR. Decide what progressions your gonna use. How many numbers your gonna play maximum. And/or â€" I divide my bankroll by hundreds to estimate my max single stake. I'll be betting hundreds of units across my selection from single units to whatever the progression goes up to.
If you hit an early drawdown that balances up to break even, do you consider that a loss and keep playing the same numbers? Or do you consider it a win/recovery and start over. And start using whats happening now.
The longer your selection takes to hit the more likely its not going to hit! But in the mind of most gamblers the psychological desire is to hang on to their selection and push on believing it 'must' hit soon. The rabbit hole gets deeper. You should be avoiding ever getting in that position if know what your limits are.
My observations show me that all sessions have groups of numbers that become dominant to different degrees. Take TG's random horse race as a prime example. Eventually a horse or group of horses (numbers) will take a lead that cant be caught up by the others. It happens every time. Imagine the race has lots of different finish lines. You could bet for them all or could start whenever you like.
Quote from: fossell on May 08, 04:46 PM 2018
Whats this graph actually show? What does each line represent? Cheers
Hi,
ozon mentioned "
radioactive decay", what has that to do with roulette ?
when you begin a roulette game, you have 37 plein unhit.
The mathematically process from unhit to hit numbers of the following spins can be described similar as "radioactive decay".
In my picture from
left to right you see :
- line coming down from the top: amount of unhit numbers
- first line with a maximum: amount of hit numbers
- second line with a maximum: amount of 1. repeater, and so on
I simulated this behavior as described, the result should be "winkels repeater picture" ,
( some call it g.u.t. )