Been a while since I posted and I’m bored. Having to be somewhere you don’t want to be but have to :yawn:
So let’s get into it
Many players complain about zero!
How because of the zero they can’t win.
The huge advantage the house has because of the uneven payout :twisted: :twisted:
I played without the zero for a very long time. I said it before... Try to win the game as if there is no zero.
Once you can win without the zero!! Then the zero solution is a piece of cake!
I will not be sharing any methods.... This is for those that have a good method already but zero is still a problem...
I will only share ideas to help you with THE BIG BAD ZERO >:D
The house edge exists on every number, not just the zero.
Betting on the zero doesn't help anything.
Can you at least let the topic begin?
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Winner has a good system on a wheel without a zero. I said he would only break even, but apparently not, it's minting cash. You could help him add a zero, and he can win even more :wink:
The general is correct btw what he shared is true and it’s good advice!
So let’s start there....
Zero is the same as every other number.
The house edge affects you everywhere but it’s impact is felt more on group bets ( personal opinion don’t crucify) :xd:
What I mean is...
If you bet 1 unit on zero and 1 unit on line 1
If line 1 wins you get paid 6 minus 2 stakes so 4 profit
Now let’s take this same example to straights
If you bet 1 unit on 6 numbers in line 1 OR bet 6 units on line 1 and 1 unit on zero
If line 1 wins you get 36 minus 7 staked so 29 profit
First example wins 4 units profit which if we convert that to straight 4*6=24 units
Compared to the second example which gains 29 units
So what I am trying to show you is....
One solution to the zero bet is to already incorporate the hedge bet within your game and one way to do it is convert your play to straight bets
AGAIN THIS IS A SOLUTION TO ZERO IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A WINNING METHOD.
You can’t do this if your method is crap. If your playing an ec bet and you can win more then 50% then this solution will help.
Ultimately the logical conclusion is to cease playing roulette in favour of baccarat.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 07, 09:59 PM 2019
Winner has a good system on a wheel without a zero. I said he would only break even, but apparently not, it's minting cash. You could help him add a zero, and he can win even more :wink:
Zero has no bearing on my system.
Vb players must be a litte dissy from watching the wheel go round and round ,hypnotic state makes believe they are printing cashiola .
They get so dissy the wheel becomes wobbly.🤪
Quote from: Let Me Win on Feb 08, 07:28 AM 2019
Ultimately the logical conclusion is to cease playing roulette in favour of baccarat.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. :yawn:
My personal opinion roulette is better because you can take advantage of the imbalance caused by the *cough cough PAYOUT :ooh:
In baccarat you can do it but you will have to create it to happen where as in roulette it’s natural :lol:
I know, I know another lunatic that believes the game is beatable :o
Off topic sorry :smile:
Quote from: Winner on Feb 08, 09:37 AM 2019
Zero has no bearing on my system.
Vb players must be a litte dissy from watching the wheel go round and round ,hypnotic state makes believe they are printing cashiola .
They get so dissy the wheel becomes wobbly.🤪
Well I was actually going to make this my third idea but you mentioned it so might as well speak about it now
Solution #2 to the zero problem
Just ignore it..... it seems so simple but it’s true
Think about this if you play EC bet 50/50... house edge is at 2.70
So if you have a way to win that gets you 55% it’s not huge so you might want to use solution #1 or solution #3 which I haven’t posted yet
But if you win 60% or higher just ignore the zero. Take the loss and keep playing. Just like Winner who has joined the world of the believers :twisted:
I prefer to personally include it as part of play especially if you have some type of progression in play.
***progression is nothing special and it’s just multiple flat bets. Don’t think I’m saying anything different, not trying to confuse anyone
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 08, 12:22 PM 2019
Well I was actually going to make this my third idea but you mentioned it so might as well speak about it now
Solution #2 to the zero problem
Just ignore it..... it seems so simple but it’s true
Think about this if you play EC bet 50/50... house edge is at 2.70
So if you have a way to win that gets you 55% it’s not huge so you might want to use solution #1 or solution #3 which I haven’t posted yet
But if you win 60% or higher just ignore the zero. Take the loss and keep playing. Just like Winner who has joined the world of the believers :twisted:
I prefer to personally include it as part of play especially if you have some type of progression in play.
***progression is nothing special and it’s just multiple flat bets. Don’t think I’m saying anything different, not trying to confuse anyone
only if you don’t know what your doing .believing as nothing to do with math or roulette you must learn how to win the game .I see your not there yet but don’t give it up by yourself a computer.or just get dissy with vb :twisted:
Solution #3
This will help with grouped bets but also for progressions
Play different unit amount on zero with recovery into winning method
Let’s say we are using lines
Bet 1 unit on line 1 and bet .25 units on zero
Zero payout will be 9 units minus .25
So after 4 losses of playing your method and the zero. You’ve only lost 1 unit on the zero. So you can easily add this to your progression on the method and start over playing .25 on zero
If you get a win before the 4 spins just take the win and the loss of .25-.75 on zero and start over
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 08, 12:55 PM 2019
Solution #3
This will help with grouped bets but also for progressions
Play different unit amount on zero with recovery into winning method
Let’s say we are using lines
Bet 1 unit on line 1 and bet .25 units on zero
Zero payout will be 9 units minus .25
So after 4 losses of playing your method and the zero. You’ve only lost 1 unit on the zero. So you can easily add this to your progression on the method and start over playing .25 on zero
If you get a win before the 4 spins just take the win and the loss of .25-.75 on zero and start over
if you have a good system there’s no need to hedge that’s how you lose money.been there done that ,you need a winning bet on how to beat the game.
Quote from: Winner on Feb 08, 01:25 PM 2019
if you have a good system there’s no need to hedge that’s how you lose money.been there done that ,you need a winning bet on how to beat the game.
I agree with you! But your game play and your goal might be different from someone else.
I’m glad you found a way to beat the game. What you play and what I play isn’t the same game. I’m not going to get into a war of who is better or what. Glad your winning! Not to many people can say they found a method.
There isn’t only one way to beat this game. Your way is not the only way to beat this game!
So we agree their are ways to win. Some people might need this info others might not.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 08, 01:38 PM 2019
I agree with you! But your game play and your goal might be different from someone else.
I’m glad you found a way to beat the game. What you play and what I play isn’t the same game. I’m not going to get into a war of who is better or what. Glad your winning! Not to many people can say they found a method.
There isn’t only one way to beat this game. Your way is not the only way to beat this game!
So we agree their are ways to win. Some people might need this info others might not.
NP
Negative variance is a far worse problem than the zero. If playing red only, you may only get 38 hits in 100 spins...this is alot worse than the 2.7% house edge
Quote from: Scarface on Feb 08, 02:29 PM 2019
Negative variance is a far worse problem than the zero. If playing red only, you may only get 38 hits in 100 spins...this is alot worse than the 2.7% house edge
Very true but this topic is more aimed at players who have a small edge but are having trouble with zero or the small house edge issue.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 08, 08:41 PM 2019
Very true but this topic is more aimed at players who have a small edge but are having trouble with zero or the small house edge issue.
When you get a small edge, come back and talk to us whenever you're bored or even not bored. Maybe we can help you with your issues.
Quote from: Scarface on Feb 08, 02:29 PM 2019
Negative variance is a far worse problem than the zero. If playing red only, you may only get 38 hits in 100 spins...this is alot worse than the 2.7% house edge
That's only short term though. There's times you'll get 62 hits in 100 to compensate.
Zero is however always there, taking a percentage, winming streak or losing streak, system or no system. So no matter how you twist and turn, it really is the problem.
Variance is not the problem. The problem is unfair payouts, which can only be overcome by increasing odds to be better than random.
You cant control variance, with the exception of increasing your odds. Do you think the wheel gives a crap that you change your bet size? Does it give a crap that your bet selection goes from random to random? Stop wasting your time with delusion and illusion.
Players pay me a fortune for advice. Here you get it free. Take it, or dont. Not that this specific advice above is special. It's just the basics, but most members dont even get past them.
PS - Why is zero a problem? It's just another pocket. Some bet types dont cover it, but it doesnt really make a difference.
That's the crux. Unfair payout.
How many people would toss a fair coin with their mate and take 100 for a win while paying them 103 for a loss. And if you bump up your bets to cover your losses (aka Progression) you get payed 1000 while your mate takes 1030. In the long run, you lose even more.
But there is a theoretical limit to random. In 200 spins, you will never see Red drop 200 times in a row. The worse case scenario of any simulation I've ever seen is 65 Reds in 200 spins...this seems to be absolute worse case in millions of spins. Find a way to beat this, you have your Holy Grail
Quote from: Scarface on Feb 10, 05:15 PM 2019But there is a theoretical limit to random. In 200 spins, you will never see Red drop 200 times in a row. The worse case scenario of any simulation I've ever seen is 65 Reds in 200 spins...this seems to be absolute worse case in millions of spins. Find a way to beat this, you have your Holy Grail
NO. This is the typical Turbo mistake. Random does NOT have limits. What you've said is the same as "In 50 spins you'll never see all blacks or reds. This is predictable and helps us win".
There are no such limits. It is just basic probability. What is probable to happen depends largely on the amount of spins. In a random game, it doesnt AT ALL give you hints on what happens next.
Its like the bad understanding of "if you dont bet on sleepers, you increase your odds to 24/37".
Turbo is misleading people. But people with basic understanding can see his major mistakes.
Quote from: Still on Feb 09, 06:58 PM 2019
When you get a small edge, come back and talk to us whenever you're bored or even not bored. Maybe we can help you with your issues.
Hahaha hi to you too. Been what like 3 years since we spoke. Hope all is well with you.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 10, 05:39 AM 2019
That's only short term though. There's times you'll get 62 hits in 100 to compensate.
Zero is however always there, taking a percentage, winming streak or losing streak, system or no system. So no matter how you twist and turn, it really is the problem.
There’s to much variance playing just red and black. Need to play in a more controlled environment
Quote from: Scarface on Feb 10, 05:15 PM 2019
But there is a theoretical limit to random. In 200 spins, you will never see Red drop 200 times in a row. The worse case scenario of any simulation I've ever seen is 65 Reds in 200 spins...this seems to be absolute worse case in millions of spins. Find a way to beat this, you have your Holy Grail
Your looking at it the wrong way!
There is a limit to random. But that’s to wide of a range and you can get a win way before 200 spins mark.
The limit to red and black is 3 spins. This is way to short because you will run into situation where both plays will come into play. So you need to somehow make this last longer to give your game play time to make a profit.
As soon as you make a profit your done and you can start over!
Quote from: Steve on Feb 10, 05:24 PM 2019
NO. This is the typical Turbo mistake. Random does NOT have limits. What you've said is the same as "In 50 spins you'll never see all blacks or reds. This is predictable and helps us win".
There are no such limits. It is just basic probability. What is probable to happen depends largely on the amount of spins. In a random game, it doesnt AT ALL give you hints on what happens next.
Its like the bad understanding of "if you dont bet on sleepers, you increase your odds to 24/37".
Turbo is misleading people. But people with basic understanding can see his major mistakes.
Steve your right! You have good advice but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other things that cant be done!
Let me paint a picture for you....
If I sit down on the table and I write down 1-15 outcomes of spins into 5 columns using only dozens outcomes and the zero.
So 15 spins
1.â€"â€"4.â€"â€"7..â€"â€"10.â€"â€"-13.â€"â€"
2.â€"â€"5.â€"â€"8.â€"â€"11..â€"â€"-14.â€"â€"
3.â€"â€"6..â€"â€"9..â€"â€"12..â€"â€"-15.â€"â€"
How many spins would I have to write down before one of my dozens repeats on the same line?
Would I fill all 15 spins without a repeat is that possible?
Does this game I created depend on roulette odds or payout?
The roulette results can do whatever combination it wants according to its math. But the end result will always be the same. It has to give me a repeat before those 15 spins run out.
Only way it can avoid this repeat is if 6 zeros come out lol. 2 zeros per line then 321.132.213
The wheel doesn’t have to do or give me what I’m looking for..... but for some reason it has no choice when I write it down :o
Can you tell me why?
Why do I keep winning? I don’t understand?
Steve, prove my example wrong....
15 spins.... make dozens not have a repeat on any one row
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019
Steve your right! You have good advice but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other things that cant be done!
Let me paint a picture for you....
If I sit down on the table and I write down 1-15 outcomes of spins into 5 columns using only dozens outcomes and the zero.
So 15 spins
1.â€"â€"4.â€"â€"7..â€"â€"10.â€"â€"-13.â€"â€"
2.â€"â€"5.â€"â€"8.â€"â€"11..â€"â€"-14.â€"â€"
3.â€"â€"6..â€"â€"9..â€"â€"12..â€"â€"-15.â€"â€"
How many spins would I have to write down before one of my dozens repeats on the same line?
Would I fill all 15 spins without a repeat is that possible?
Does this game I created depend on roulette odds or payout?
The roulette results can do whatever combination it wants according to its math. But the end result will always be the same. It has to give me a repeat before those 15 spins run out.
Only way it can avoid this repeat is if 6 zeros come out lol. 2 zeros per line then 321.132.213
The wheel doesn’t have to do or give me what I’m looking for..... but for some reason it has no choice when I write it down :o
Can you tell me why?
Why do I keep winning? I don’t understand?
Well gosh golly! What are you waiting for get out there and raise your bets! ::) You clearly have this all figured out!
Quote from: The General on Feb 10, 09:04 PM 2019
Well gosh golly! What are you waiting for get out there and raise your bets! ::) You clearly have this all figured out!
I hope you’re not so simple minded to think this is the method to win :o
Btw it wins flatbet! :thumbsup:
I painted a picture for you to show you there are other ways to look at the game.
-this example shows an end maybe there are other ways to get to the end
-this game being played isn’t against the wheel but against a game created by paper
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019Steve your right! You have good advice but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other things that cant be done!
Sure other things can be done. Just not the typical nonsense on forums. Even when someone with understanding explains it, the same people continue in circles.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019If I sit down on the table and I write down 1-15 outcomes of spins into 5 columns using only dozens outcomes and the zero.
So 15 spins
1.â€"â€"4.â€"â€"7..â€"â€"10.â€"â€"-13.â€"â€"
2.â€"â€"5.â€"â€"8.â€"â€"11..â€"â€"-14.â€"â€"
3.â€"â€"6..â€"â€"9..â€"â€"12..â€"â€"-15.â€"â€"
How many spins would I have to write down before one of my dozens repeats on the same line?
Would I fill all 15 spins without a repeat is that possible?
Sure it's possible. Your way of thinking is wrong from the start.
Any event can and will occur given enough spins. You cant just say "will it not happen in X amount of spins" because the payout is still below the probability.
For example: You will probably never see 10 reds in a row (ive seen it many times). But let's just use it as an example. So you wait for RRRRRRRRR (9 reds). And one more red would be soooo rare. So what are the odds of red/black next? Still 18/37. So what have you changed? Nothing. It's just super old fallacy to think otherwise.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019Does this game I created depend on roulette odds or payout?
BOTH.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019It has to give me a repeat before those 15 spins run out.
Umm, no it doesnt. You are stuck here.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019Only way it can avoid this repeat is if 6 zeros come out lol. 2 zeros per line then 321.132.213
You are still missing the point.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019but for some reason it has no choice when I write it down
Casinos love your philosophy, because you've got no idea.
What you described is no different to saying there MUST be repeats. You will never see 37 unique numbers in 37 spins. You probably wont see it, but that's just because it's improbable in your lifetime. Does it matter? Nope. Why? Because the payouts still lag behind your accuracy.
If you dont get it, just go keep winning. And when you lose, keep wondering what you're missing... maybe some special progression you just need to figure out.
Seriously. You are so far behind.
Here's a simpler example for you. Consider a coin toss. There are two outcomes: head and tails.
No matter what you bet, you have a 50% chance of winning. So if the game was fair, the payout will be 1:1.
Will changing your bet size change the outcome? Nope. How about betting a repeat in X tosses will or wont happen? Nope. You still have 1:1 odds.
Now imagine if the payout for wins was 10% less.
You arent going to just break even. You'll gradually lose more and more over time. Even when you win with the expected 50% accuracy, you'll still lose.
I dont understand why many of you just dont get it.
I will reply in the new topic