I'm bored and I want to bury that other topic
:D
I remember a couple of years ago there was a discussion between Steve, the general, priyanka and rrbb. Steve kept insisting that the only way to win was to increase the accuracy of your prediction. I think it all started in random thoughts and then moved over to a new topic. Maybe one of you guys can post it here for anyone that hasn't read it.
I know this question might sound stupid lol; but understand what I'm really asking you.
Is predicting the number the only way to win in roulette?
Obviously you need to pick the right number/group to win, I know that and it's not what I'm really asking.
I'm talking more about the approach. Do I really need to predict to win or is there another way?!
I would like to get your personal thoughts, let's chat...
The approach to how you predict will undoubtedly decide how successful you are. I see it as a game where you gather as much information as you can and then you need to decide how to use that information and what preference you give to certain parts of it.
Is it any different in any other type of betting venture? You weigh up all the info at your disposal and then make your best guess.
Pryanka talked about not letting the 'law of large numbers' catch up with you. I think she mentioned about switching between streams was the way to go. I can vouch for that one. What I have found is that by stitching different streams together is a great way to help you prolong a winning streak because it can give you more clarity amongst the randomness of it all.
I am sure there are different ways to go about it and obviously we don't need to get every decision correct to be a long term winner. We just need to be consistent with our processes and trust in them because we can't always expect a smooth ride.
Quote from: Rond1nell1x on Aug 04, 09:23 PM 2024Hi, I believe that if we combine 2 or more partitions (DS, DZ, EC) intelligently to attack a dz cycle or a Ds cycle we can create some advantage. But I haven't been able to do that yet. I believe the secret is that it can't be anything static, but rather something mobile that changes according to what's happening in the cycle.
Priyanka, I shared in the Random Thoughts thread that the dozen that closed the previous cycle will close the current cycle by an average of 62%. This is always using the last DZ of the cycle as the first of the current cycle.
In a test with a flat bet, I waited to close the first cycle and bet flat on the DZ that closed the previous cycle until the current cycle closed. And I restarted the attack with the dz of the second cycle and did this for 81 spins. It reached -14 and returned to +1.
This is certainly not a winning attack, but I believe we can use this combined with something to make an effective attack.
I just wanted to share it to see if any ideas come up here.
Yes it's true the percentage is high but the problem is the losses per cycle when you don't win on the first spin. Because the data is conditional.
Under the condition of a repeat of a dozen.. the one that starts the cycle ends it at a high percentage. But this doesn't account for the fact that sometimes you have -1,-2 per cycle.
Your real problem are these losses being accumulated. This kind of betting is considered the waiting game and it will fail.
Exactly Money, I'm trying to solve this problem but still no success!
And regarding your topic, I think I understand the point you are trying to make.
We don't need to predict the exact number or group that will come next, but we need to know what is bound to happen and have a plan to exploit that.
Quote from: Tobacco Vanille on Aug 04, 08:41 PM 2024The approach to how you predict will undoubtedly decide how successful you are. I see it as a game where you gather as much information as you can and then you need to decide how to use that information and what preference you give to certain parts of it.
Yes very true! The better you understand the game you are playing the more you learn. PRI said to break the game down. This is where you find what you need and what you don't need.
Quote from: Tobacco Vanille on Aug 04, 08:41 PM 2024Pryanka talked about not letting the 'law of large numbers' catch up with you. I think she mentioned about switching between streams was the way to go. I can vouch for that one. What I have found is that by stitching different streams together is a great way to help you prolong a winning streak because it can give you more clarity amongst the randomness of it all.
Glad to hear you found a way to make it work for you. It sounds like you are combining streams across the board. Good strategy!
Quote from: Rond1nell1x on Aug 04, 11:41 PM 2024Exactly Money, I'm trying to solve this problem but still no success!
Look at what tobacco is doing. He has found a way to remove some prediction out of the game.
Quote from: Rond1nell1x on Aug 04, 11:44 PM 2024but we need to know what is bound to happen and have a plan to exploit that.
Is that even possible? Do you have any ideas?
Remember this game isn't infinite. Well it can be depending how you look at it I guess lol. But just by the fact that a number has to repeat it makes the game finite
I haven't found any effective betting plan.
Stitching the flows is the way to go, but I haven't found it yet.
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for an Excel sheet or any resource that includes data on all cycle types: dozens, lines, streets, splits, and straight cycles. I've seen some resources like Priyanka's spreadsheet, but it only contains dozens and lines.If anyone has a spreadsheet covering all these cycle types or can point me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm not very experienced with math and coding, so any help would be valuable.Thank you in advance for your assistance!
Best regards,
Coolguy
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for an Excel sheet or any resource that includes data on all cycle types: dozens, lines, streets, splits, and straight cycles. I've seen some resources like Priyanka's spreadsheet, but it only contains dozens and lines.If anyone has a spreadsheet covering all these cycle types or can point me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm not very experienced with math and coding, so any help would be valuable.Thank you in advance for your assistance!
Best regards,
Coolguy
Can I help you, I know I'm not in good standing here but it doesn't matter. If we know that roulette is random and that the history of the numbers means nothing, then how do we play? Let's take for example any three numbers, one number in each third ( 5, 13, 32 ) and play all day with those three numbers, the result will be no worse than any better system, you will thank me later.
Thanks for trying to help @MumboJumbo
But I don't see where playing any 3 numbers will be better than any other system.
I took these 3 numbers in your example and simulated them in a test result here:
In 30 spins there was 1 hit: debt of -54
In 100 spins there was 4 hits: debt of -156
In 300 spins there was 18 hits: debt of -252
Maybe you wanted to show something else that I didn't see!!!
Why don't you just try testing for real money on real roulette, the simulations don't work for me, try playing 100 spins for real money and show me the result, you can't lose much. Here, give me the three numbers you want and I will play them for real money 100 times and show you the result.
I think theres definitely something to the below post by alexlaf in the other thread- posting here so we can keep the discussion going! What I dont really get is the minus and plus of these numbers- not sure if thats losses or betting amounts?
Cheers!
Akiraa
A. I bet on all previous unique numbers
B. I add a second Result stream, the opposite from A, but shifted 1 spin:
E.g.
A. -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, +30
B. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -30
A is a losing proposition, B is a losing proposition. However, combined they give a winning system (when we have a repeat we break even at least)
We now also know that the A and B "systems" must be interwoven: at any time, we can NOT create 2 bets that totally separate A and B!
example to illustrate this concept: bet on number 1, and on low. when 1 hit, we have the proceeds of 1 AND the low, so A consists of the low bets, however, when 1 does not hit, but low hits, the low acts like the B system. Again, this is just an example to illustrate the interwovenness of A and B. There is now way we can split the two bets in the above example into A and B. They are a unity
What also should become clear: It could just occur that we MUST bet all numbers on the table!
@MumboJumbo I'm sorry but I don't see how failing the tests will work out in real play.
It seems that we do not understand each other, you are testing the system in an unreliable way, I am talking about real roulette in real time.
Here is my test for the numbers 5, 13, 32 (103 spins)
Speed ��Auto Roulette evolution gaming
dated 15.8.2024 at 15.00
first number ~ 12,27,23,12,15,2,23,0,36,26
36,16,18,20,7,8,33,14,19,28
5,33,6,9,29,32,34,36,16,20
15,7,16,15,9,33,17,36,25,30
17,27,14,19,26,11,32,14,5,8
27,25,23,27,5,32,7,6,23,30
23,7,3,16,27,1,6,27,11,24
11,1,13,0,19,34,10,0,33,5
3,12,6,8,27,22,17,12,10,0
2,17,34,13,3,16,36,26,2,16
29,5,12 ~ the last number
Account balance $1000
bet $1 per number
103 spins
$309 invested
hit 10 numbers
earnings 360-309= $51
new balance after 103 spins $1051
I understand. You will succeed with this attack more than 90% of the time, the problem is when you fail, you will be caught by the law of large numbers.
I don't remember where I read it, but I did several tests and was surprised by the result of a simple attack. (bet on the numbers as they appear)
The number 12 comes up, bet on 12, the next is 25, bet on 12 and 25. For each number that appears, place a chip on it.
At some point you will be in profit up to 37 spins.
Quote from: Akiraa on Aug 05, 08:14 AM 2024I think theres definitely something to the below post by alexlaf in the other thread- posting here so we can keep the discussion going!
I suggest you do your own research off the forum. Just like anything shared things will not work as presented
Quote from: MumboJumbo on Aug 05, 10:05 AM 2024Account balance $1000
bet $1 per number
103 spins
$309 invested
hit 10 numbers
earnings 360-309= $51
new balance after 103 spins $1051
If it works for you, just continue to do it.
Can you show a distribution of where the numbers hit for those 103 spins? I'm interested in seeing how many of the numbers have 0 hits and 1 hit...
You have screenshot of the wheel with hot and cold numbers, try my system it is not possible to lose over long run.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Aug 04, 05:31 PM 2024Is predicting the number the only way to win in roulette?
The answer to this is soccer totto, now going on str8 do we really need all that matrix 36*36+1 as we have for that dozen example 3*12, we will never see 37 unique numbers on that order ! Follow the template!
Quote from: alexlaf on Aug 05, 02:31 PM 2024The answer to this is soccer totto, now going on str8 do we really need all that matrix 36*36+1 as we have for that dozen example 3*12, we will never see 37 unique numbers on that order ! Follow the template!
:xd: I was just coming in here to mention this jajaja you got here first
Many of the things shared had a purpose one way or another. It's all bits and pieces for a bigger picture.
I've spoke in the past about the soccer Toto using the dozens as an example. 3 dozens in 13 spins with atleast 1 dozen having 5 hits.
When you look at the result as a whole there is always 1 dozen with 5 hits we know this without predicting at all. What we want to do is make sure we are always on the winning side of things. How can we be on the winning side without predicting?
If you sit down and really think about this. You will see there is no possible way to do it. The only possible way to get this result is to play all 3 dozens! But if you play all 3 there is no profit.
Here is an idea and a little bit of my thought process...what if some dozens have more units than other dozens? Would it work?
Why would any other dozen have more units than other dozens?
12 units on 1 dozen = 36 win-12= 24 profit
6 units on 2 lines = 36 win-12= 24 profit
3 units on 4 streets= 36 win-12= 24 profit
2 units on 6 splits= 36 win -12= 24 profit
12 units on 12 straights= 36 win-12= 24 profit
Adding the second stream could my cycle end early!
As rrbb said one side will always win!
But don't we take the coincidences as our objects and not the matches ?
putting objects (=matches) into compartments (=columns) creates problems:
Quote from: alexlaf on Aug 05, 04:12 PM 2024As rrbb said one side will always win!
But don't we take the coincidences as our objects and not the matches ?
putting objects (=matches) into compartments (=columns) creates problems:
To technical for me lol
I don't see things this way as objects and compartments because I confuse myself labeling things
Look at carpediem post example. He didn't care about all the random noise happening in between. He only cared of the final result.
The final result is a repeat of the number. This doesn't mean you need to win on the repeat. It just means the cycle is over.
Let's look at things more advanced using these dozen cycles
1231...
2312...
3213...
All three are the exact same combination as far as objects go. There's 2 unique numbers in the middle and 1 repeated which is the start and end. So you can have 1 strategy that beats all three of these situations
Even if we use fruits the combination is the exact same and your strategy would beat it
Apple pear orange apple - 2 unique in the middle with the repeat in the front and end
For dozens there are I believe 33 different cycles(it's off the top of my head sorry if I'm wrong) and only 6 permutations(Im sure of this) to cover all of them.
It's always better to keep things as simple as possible. Carpediem had the best and simplest approach, I always recommend ppl to go look at his last two post because all the information is good.
As you said its about the puzzle. .
I see where you going with the combination!
So you are saying that is the way as per dozen, doesn't that get to complicated for higher positions? In any case we don't need all of them.
"Instead of defining lines (the first line of a cycle), you could also look at for example the defining halves (the first half of a line cycle)"
Based on this Mel, i am thinking what if we calculate:
1)Probability of moving to a high section given the previous spin was in the low section!
2)Probability of moving to a low section given the previous spin was in the high section!
First indicates losses on the first five bets and a win on the sixth bet.
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -30
This indicates no bet on the first spin, then progressive bets that each win until a loss on the sixth bet.
I'm studying how to merge the ds and dz flows, I haven't found a continuous attack yet, but I found a trigger that passed the first test of 500 spins. (It can be a positive variance only) I'll do more tests.
Flat bet.
Fixed bet of 5 units.
Gain can be +4 or +1
Losses can be -5 or -2
I got 33 triggers in 500 spins.
43 units won.
Below is an image with the DZ and Ds cycles interspersed. The trigger used in the test above is also there in this image.
Quote from: Rond1nell1x on Aug 06, 10:40 AM 2024a trigger
I am not saying that is wrong or correct BUT we need dependence to get an edge...
@Alexlaf I know that, my friend. I see a certain dependency between the flows. But I haven't found a way to explore that yet.
What about that process!
!
We... saw each other on this some time ago. but how to exploit it, what is the logic, I know, it's been years, but it doesn't come out, thanks
@alexlaf If you could detail these flows and give some clues on how to exploit them, I would appreciate it. In my image I highlighted both flows as cycles as pryanka showed us. I believe it is possible to exploit them if you know how to combine an attack.
Quote from: leoncino74 on Aug 06, 01:17 PM 2024We... saw each other on this some time ago. but how to exploit it, what is the logic, I know, it's been years, but it doesn't come out, thanks
What you found about this. Maybe it is just a lesson as others!
Quote from: Rond1nell1x on Aug 06, 01:40 PM 2024@alexlaf If you could detail these flows and give some clues on how to exploit them, I would appreciate it. In my image I highlighted both flows as cycles as pryanka showed us. I believe it is possible to exploit them if you know how to combine an attack.
I will post a full image but I can't tell what I do as it can be wrong! You can analyze!
Here...
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Aug 05, 09:45 PM 2024It's always better to keep things as simple as possible.
Quote from: alexlaf on Aug 06, 03:27 AM 2024So you are saying that is the way as per dozen, doesn't that get to complicated for higher positions? In any case we don't need all of them.
I'm not saying this is the way. I'm just sharing different angles that maybe others haven't looked at. Yes it get complicated with higher groups but very interesting.
Like with DS there's over 6000+ different combinations. And with 21 permutations you can cover each one 🤣
Quote from: alexlaf on Aug 06, 04:57 AM 20241)Probability of moving to a high section given the previous spin was in the low section!
2)Probability of moving to a low section given the previous spin was in the high section!
What if there is a way to make it seem like you are playing both? Im just throwing out ideas and different angles
Remember there are NO RULES. You are creating them. You don't have to follow cycles. You don't have to win on repeated number. You create rules based on what happens but you can also change the rules of YOUR SYSTEM. Nothing is written in stone saying this is the way to do it.
just going to quote akiraas post off pralines thread
C: there are 4 subsets on either colour
C: odd low
C: even low
C: odd high
C: even high
C: if i say black even high is referring to 20 22 24 26 28 and nothing else
C: if 24 show you play on the whole subset
C: inside bets
C: 5 chips
C: but 2 chips on either black odd and low
C: if a black show
C: it must be that subset or if not then 4 chips win 2 chips loss on even chances
C: you understand it?
C: whats the purpose?
C: to have a repeat on that subset and win 33 chips!!!!!
C: seeking a subset will repeat - outside bets feeding partially inside bets
C: seeking the big win
C: with the inside bets
C: there are 8 subsets in total plus 0
C: but dont doubt it - D. plays 38 chips on every bet
C: that's why he talks about 38 x 36
C: well
C: 38 x 2 = 76
C: 76 x 36 = 2736 chips - D. bankroll
C: 38 spins worse scenario
C: 36 chips for every bet
C: well this is going too far for the moment - talking about amounts of chips to bet
C: but most important we need to find how he makes both brothers win every cycle playing this way
C: 1 brother playing on black, the other one playing on red
N: i think he play 76 unit for 38 spin
C: yes you are right i agree
N: hmm...
C: but of course there are losses till we achieve a win
N: something wrong
N: 76 x 38 = 2888
C: 76x36 2736
C: right
N: but he said 38 spin
N: 1 st spin no bet
C: well this is my 2 cts assumption
C: im not talking about percentages for the bets
N: 72 x 38 spin = 2736
C: yes thats right too
C: wait a moment please
C i got to go guys
N: thanks C... really appreciate it
N: one thing about betting outside bet is we need to take care of the zero- still scratching my head
C: no big worries about 0
C: D. treats it like another number
C: he seek 0 repetition if it shows
N: thanks for the brainstorming
C: welcome mate
heres another interpretation from me
here is my interpretation of rrbb bankroll...
from what the majority believes dyslexic taught red/rrbb
rrbb has in the outside of the box thread specifically shown you the streams tracker and cycles..
everyone should by now have the streams tracker off my thread..
now lets take rrbb streams tracker as it is ...ds...street...split...str8..
the main purpose is not to go beyond 37 spins ...law of large numbers etc..
1st I,ll give you the breakdown...
lets start with the streams ..
ds there are 6....
lets add up the total amount to bet all 6 one after the other
1,2,3,4,5,6 = 21... there 6 lots of these cycles in 37 spins...so 21x6= 126
same for streets .
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12=78 there are 3 full cycles in 37 spins so 78x3=234
same for splits
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18= 171 there are 2 full cycles in 37 spins so 171x2= 342
same for straight
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36=666
there is only 1 cycle of these numbers..
total bankroll = 1368 ..
main and positional is 1368x2 =2736
twin brothers?
dyslexics original way was to bet on an ec to cover table outlay bet....twin brothers here?
from what is known rrbb adjusted adjusted dyslexics main bet and with his double streams example showing only that repeats came in lo postional...
he even told you that you could not win on this alone...both dyslexics bet and rrbb bet rely on a 72 number system
so here is a little fun fact
6ds....12streets...18splits..36 str8
6+12+18+36=72 ...
72x37 =2664 +2.7percent house edge 71.928 =2735.923....very close to 2736
Confirmation bias in action
so true blueprint...you have a better explanation ?...
re read carpdiems post...before you discount it i would say look a bit deeper into what i posted what and where the other balance states come from
all the above is why dyslexic is telling you that its the max bankroll needed and you cannoy lose it...as that would mean no repeats anywhere across the board...you also have to remember he always used an ec bet in conjunction with his play...the question for you is how
Playing main an derived we have unique and unhit, what if we add a second stream based on this!
A. -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, +30
B. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -30
If this is one 38 spins session
|_______|
then another session could overlap it like so:
|_______|
|_______|
main and positional is 1368x2 =2736
2736
2+7+3+6=18. OMG it's half!
Quote from: Blueprint on Aug 07, 07:54 AM 20242736
2+7+3+6=18. OMG it's half!
:xd: :xd: idk why I found this so funny
There's so many possibilities that I would just believe if you found an angle and it's working for you, just continue to use it!
There's something about all this 2736 units talk, I'm hesitant to share openly. So I'll just share it this way.
Creating dependent events + php = winning sequences
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Aug 07, 10:08 AM 2024Creating dependent events + php = winning sequences
I can't see why is bad to (wait) when we have dependence, don't we count those virtual bets?
Quote from: alexlaf on Aug 07, 10:17 AM 2024I can't see why is bad to (wait) when we have dependence, don't we count those virtual bets?
Ok so there should always be units on the table, but I guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
I'm working on an ec only method for baccarat and it requires a lot of virtual betting. Sometime there is a bet on both sides but even still there is always a bet with units on the table since one side might have an extra unit.
If it's 1 unit on each side then no bet. But that situation is rare with DS, quads, streets, splits, straights
Simple idea using totto!
Lets say I create my table 9x4 and I get my first result #21 and go like this for 37 spins , as we have 37 spins and 9 sets that is like 4.1 per raw! It is dynamic!
Hey Mel. What you think! Could I use that?
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Aug 07, 10:45 AM 2024method for baccarat
Mikki is giving it away for 50m.
Quote from: Blueprint on Aug 06, 06:34 AM 2024First indicates losses on the first five bets and a win on the sixth bet.
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -30
This indicates no bet on the first spin, then progressive bets that each win until a loss on the sixth bet.
Friends/Strangers ?
Bcs I mentioned F/S can we guaranty on a 37 spin cycle that we will have at least 3 friends. I guess we can!
Ehi Alex
Can you explain it please, written like that doesn't help much
Thank you in advance
Don't take anything serious.. :) Judgement is yours!
Here you have for 6 spins:
Here's my take. The first and most important thing is to understand how a winning system could exist, if it can be proven that every individual bet has negative expected outcome.
Cycles show that there are statistical constants, which means that there are certain structures in random numbers.
By applying conditional probabilities, we can tell what is more likely to happen on the next spin. The problem is of course that the condition is in the future. So it's impossible to predict what will happen as anything can happen and we will never know how long a cycle will be. Covering both sides (repeats and uniques) can't work either as we would have to bet on all numbers.
This is why more number streams need to be used to narrow down the possibilities. Each number belongs to certain groups. The challenge is to identify how the groups are related statistically and how numbers in a group are dependent on numbers outside of that group. I find out hard to explain, but take for example streets. There are three numbers in each street that statistically behave exactly like three dozens. Even if be jump between streets! Let's assume that after two unique "dozens" we are more likely to see a repeat. So if we have straight numbers 1 and 17, (streets 1 and 6) and if these two streets don't repeat on the next spin, we are more likely to see numbers numbers from the first two rows. That is 1 to 34 and 2 to 35, except for 1 and 17.
It's not the best example, but I believe this is one way of narrowing down the possible outcomes. Both Dyk and Red mentioned that sometimes there is a bet on every number. How can that be? Well, if we bet on recent lines and high position lines, after three unique lines we would cover the entire table, that's where the bet inside the bet comes into play. We would need to have a look at the parallel streams of relative complementary sets to identify what is statistically more likely to happen inside and outside of those groups. We know that statistics related to cycles are constant, so no matter if we lose one cycle, we just keep play the same game and if our betting scheme is in line with the "event selection" of random, then eventually we would come out ahead. This way our overall outcome never depends on the next spin, it's always depends on a set of numbers. And as we know, there is always some structure in a set of random numbers, so in the long run we can stay ahead of the expected negative outcome. We don't need to predict the next number or the next set of numbers. As Dyk said, we just need to know the "frequency of the events" we are looking for. All this is much easier said than done.
Sorry about the rambling, I hope it makes some sense. ;D
Quote from: ati on Aug 13, 04:18 PM 2024By applying conditional probabilities
I agree with you ati, I posted on the other thread about Pri Dozens.
The statistical concept of dependence:
P(next dozen = previous defining dozen | repeat):
P(next dozen = previous defining dozen):
Those two are different things
I think Dyk gets a lot wrong.
Who cares what you think? Are you bored with your life and changing names and profile picture?
Simply an observation but after all this time I can't help but notice Pri, Redd, Dyk, etc speak in ways that actually prevent thinking vs promote it.
Most comments stop people in their tracks and end exploration and discovery.
"Find the invariant and you have beaten roulette"
A few others on this thread also like to ask questions that may or may not have an answer.
Solution can come in many ways.
Don't think in solutions.
Psychological warfare.
Quote from: Blueprint on Aug 28, 10:33 AM 2024Psychological warfare.
Totally agree with you Blue, but on the other hand it looks like it might feel psychological warfare, but it's really a strategy to help us think like a problem solver, not just a solution-finder.
The goal isn't to frustrate us but to develop a mindset where you're comfortable with complexity, uncertainty, and open-ended challenges.
Then there are so many examples that don't connect or we can't connect them solving what is proposed (if there is something at all) from them!
Anything shared here on forum like , I know they will say, do you want us to share openly ( what I am sharing is the basic) imagine the full of it!
Finally to me also looks as you say , like I want to help you finding the way but on the other hand look all those things to make you never find it!
↑ Yep!
as you rightly said you have figured out the last straw "concatenation"
Just check whether I told you concatenation is the solution to your problems. Or is it something you assumed.
Concatenation will definitely help though once you see the solution.
Sadly these statements are from the same person.
Do you see that as open ended?
Quote from: ᶦ ᵃᵐ|Ä-łëx on Aug 28, 11:33 AM 2024The goal isn't to frustrate us but to develop a mindset where you're comfortable with complexity, uncertainty, and open-ended challenges.
This was just a positive thought for me so I keep looking, but all the others are negative. At least with all those ideas we have to develop our game play.
I get it. All good.
I also realize no one owes anyone anything.
But I am here to finish what they started.
Is there a finish line!
The finish line is a balanced state lol
Quote from: Blueprint on Aug 28, 10:19 AM 2024"Find the invariant and you have beaten roulette"
In another message he tells you the invariant directly
Quote from: Blueprint on Aug 28, 10:33 AM 2024Psychological warfare.
When I say you I'm speaking in general.That's why I think the real problem is to much information.
We have the original creator, then we have his student, then we have the students' student lmao
Then you have notes of ppl that spoke to some of these students. :o :o :o
You start heading down one path then confuse/combine student information and things don't make sense :o
Quite the telephone game, isn't it?
They're not invariant.
Quote from: Blueprint on Aug 29, 03:39 PM 2024The finish line is a balanced state lol
It's probably the simplest explanation out of all the info we have come across over the years.
What is the balanced state? Show me an image presentation anyone
(I've shared one with 3 ppl, I don't want to see the one I created, so I'll know if it's the one I shared :twisted: )
I would like o copy off that Mel if possible.
It's an ambiguous term.
balanced (equal sum, equal number of elements)
What else?
Doesn't a balanced state simply mean an identical number of unhits and repeats (total amount) after 37 spins? In that case, every 37-spin game necessarily ends in a balance state. But how that helps in beating every/any sequence that leads to that state, I haven't figured out (yet?). :)
Will defer to the experts
Quote from: Blueprint on Sep 03, 10:54 AM 2024Will defer to the experts
I'm no expert
Quote from: duchobor on Sep 03, 07:52 AM 2024Doesn't a balanced state simply mean an identical number of unhits and repeats (total amount) after 37 spins? In that case, every 37-spin game necessarily ends in a balance state. But how that helps in beating every/any sequence that leads to that state, I haven't figured out (yet?). :)
Yes balanced state just refers to the starting point( or end, which ever way you view it). The image I created was with RX. It looks much cleaner and simple. Let me look for it, I'll post in 5 mins
392d00ee-99e0-4ebc-9bbe-e9b7e5d6aaf5.jpeg
Ok so if you go back to Carpediem post he speaks on the balanced state. This is the balanced state view.
All numbers have came up one time. And 1 number twice.
You see how each number has one and then there is only a two. You can also view this as each number has 0 and only a number has 1. That's why i said it's the beginning and end. But this is the balanced state nothing else matters...
So chaos begins on the very next spin and your goal is to get back to this position of balance
why??? It goes back to carpediem riddle. This balanced state is always there no matter what happens with random before it. All roads lead to this outcome same outcome everything before this outcome is just noise.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Aug 05, 09:25 PM 2024Let's look at things more advanced using these dozen cycles
1231...
2312...
3213...
All three are the exact same combination as far as objects go. There's 2 unique numbers in the middle and 1 repeated which is the start and end. So you can have 1 strategy that beats all three of these situations
From my view this dont make sense , don't take me wrong!
We have our cycle 37 and the stats !
Do we finally need all numbers to appear or only from the ended cycle!!!
Quote from: ᶦ ᵃᵐ|Ä-łëx on Sep 03, 01:32 PM 2024From my view this dont make sense , don't take me wrong!
We have our cycle 37 and the stats !
Do we finally need all numbers to appear or only from the ended cycle!!!
Sorry to confuse you. No we don't need all numbers to come out. Think about it the result is the same whether 10 numbers came out or 37.
Remember what I said you can make all 1's 0.
From the final result you can subtract 1 hit and you will still have the same outcome. Every number with 0 and only 1 number with 1 and your back to the balanced state
Just some food for thought and to give some ideas and I'm not claiming it's the HG or anything.
It might not seem like balanced because you have 1 number in your sequence. But this is the beginning, this is when your game is most balanced.
After spin 2 result the chaos starts unless you get a repeat of spin 1 which means your back to the start.
So you need to change your thinking to where having 1 number in the cycle is balanced. Now your goal is to reach this ending/beginning after random starts to do its thing.
So spin 1 no repeat means you have a another unique
The list of unique numbers decreases
So now for spin 2 you have two options another decrease of the list or a repeat of the previous 2 spins!
Now if you look at your list, some of these numbers have groups in common whether that's ec or ds or splits etc. so you can decide which numbers to cover in groups and which to cover individually based on the information you are getting. Each spin reveals new information and new coverage.
*Notice how I'm saying spin 1 and spin 2... spin repeat and not talking about which number *
The way you are saying now it looks like a cycle!
I understand that , a cycle will be the case you are referring to. But we know this state!
7-1
14-1
19-1
6-1
36-1
31-1
35-1
6-2
Sorry previous had two same numbers!
Like this:
27 2
14 1
30 1
2 1
18 1
19 1
15 1
32 1
3 1
4 1
Quote from: ᶦ ᵃᵐ|Ä-łëx on Sep 03, 03:09 PM 2024I understand that , a cycle will be the case you are referring to.
Yes... it's the same thing just a different angle. This the angle of uniques and repeats which are the only things that matter in the balanced state
It's either a repeat and everything is zeroed out with 1 number
Or
A continuation In the sequence
Sorry Mel i had this point in my mind but as you are trying to say something that you actually don't wanna say it here , it doesn't connect in the way how to play it!
Here is a spin by spin !
I see that the two things that we only have are repeats and unique. What is determined from what now!
Do we sett here an average for what our cycle will be and bet according ir I quit before cycle ends ( if it is not a hit on spin 2).
maybe you should not be focussed on just single numbers? We have more groups and we can create more groups. Maybe there is always 1 group of numbers of a single number in a balanced state?
I'm just thinking out loud here. I still have no fucking clue how to come up with a bet that could win then loose. The guru's keep telling me i'm close, but i have been close for years now.
Now that i'm thinking about it. There are many balanced states? You got unhit/hit. What else can we think of? Does cycle length count? There are different lengths. In theory a single number cycle does have many posible lenght. How about positions?
Why else would a guru introduce a second stream and the cycle principle? The way they though us is probely not the way you use it to make a winning bet. So how can we use all that they told us in a other way to create a winning bet.
That's where my head is right now. Forget about the explanation and look at a other way to create a bet but using what they told us.
Quote from: RayManZ on Sep 04, 05:21 AM 2024I still have no fucking clue how to come up
If you have that then what you are saying is a cycle off all what is being said on threads.
I am focussed on understanding the mechanism behind it and not on numbers, they have no meaning we know that.
You got Hit/Unhit So what?
You got Cycles So what?
You got position So what?
You got Inc/Dec So what?
Convert them to actual numbers and we again have Hit/Unhit, Cycles, position.
I don't think we need all what they have proposed, it is like F/S or VDW or Erdos , they have the same results ,Order at the end!
How do you solve a problem you've never seen before?
1) Check to see if someone else has previously solved it!
2) Examine the problem to see if there are implicit solutions!
3) Break the problem down into its constituent components and then repeat steps one and two for each of these. If this doesn't work, break the problem down further.
There is also a point where you have to say 'I do not know how to solve this problem', at which point you seek help from specialists who can.
Quote from: ᶦ ᵃᵐ|Ä-łëx on Sep 04, 05:34 AM 2024If you have that then what you are saying is a cycle off all what is being said on threads.
I am focussed on understanding the mechanism behind it and not on numbers, they have no meaning we know that.
You got Hit/Unhit So what?
You got Cycles So what?
You got position So what?
You got Inc/Dec So what?
Convert them to actual numbers and we again have Hit/Unhit, Cycles, position.
I don't think we need all what they have proposed, it is like F/S or VDW or Erdos , they have the same results ,Order at the end!
i tried to say the same thing as you do. So there is an other problem. The language barriere. A clue is useless if we don't understand what the point of the clue was. That's why most of the clues given dont result in any help at all.
1) Forget hot numbers and cold numbers. They are an illusion. Substitute the numerals with 37 types of cars. Or 37 names of people.37 words. Now, you are already ahead of the game. There are no "dozens", no "even chances", no "colors" or "quads"
2) you need to create a game, where you set up dependencies. Divide everything by half, then create opposite pairs. The color, the perfume, the class Name of the pairs does not matter in this selection. The pairs need to be mutually exclusive.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Sep 03, 04:09 PM 2024It's either a repeat and everything is zeroed out with 1 number
Or
A continuation In the sequence
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Sep 03, 02:44 PM 2024Now if you look at your list, some of these numbers have groups in common whether that's ec or ds or splits etc. so you can decide which numbers to cover in groups and which to cover individually based on the information you are getting. Each spin reveals new information and new coverage.
Quote from: ᶦ ᵃᵐ|Ä-łëx on Sep 04, 12:04 PM 20242) you need to create a game, where you set up dependencies. Divide everything by half, then create opposite pairs. The color, the perfume, the class Name of the pairs does not matter in this selection. The pairs need to be mutually exclusive.
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Sep 04, 01:02 PM 2024so you can decide which numbers to cover in groups and which to cover individually based on the information you are getting. Each spin reveals new information and new coverage.
Mel with this you are saying our,
First result is nr 30 = L 5,Str 10,Spl 15
Second result nr 13 = L 3,Str 5,Spl 7
We still have everything unique
Do we go again back now so we don't need all this and decide what to cover as you say with every new output!
I've been working on The problem!
The strategy is based on the observation of unique numbers in a sequence.
Specifically, I start betting after seeing three unique numbers, anticipating that the fourth might be a repeat.
I tested this approach on sequences of varying lengths:
3 unique numbers with 1 repeat (a, b, c, a)
9 unique numbers with 1 repeat (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, a)
2 identical numbers (a, a)
Now sequence A and B was based on the uniques and the shifted one !
I'm on the right track!! No one knows!
This forum is a place where ideas go to die.
Quote from: Blueprint on Sep 06, 01:11 PM 2024This forum is a place where ideas go to die.
That is the reason we have to move beyond this forum...
I know life is short, and none of us will be around forever. It just makes me wonder, why wouldn't they want to help at least the active members who are trying here! I know they will say we already have helped a lot but it seems all those things are nonsense.
I get it; no one owes anything to anyone. But isn't life better when we support each other? We all face challenges, and sometimes, it's not about
owing but about choosing to
care.
Alex
Don't PM me.
But here it's all about phones.
At GF, Gary G is doing his best to keep Turbo's riddles from fading away.
Like Ricardo posted. You only need to keep studying the opening post of ADV:3; the excel.
Follow the top3.
Take the #7. If you follow it through the stream and place a unit every time it hits, you'll have hit 19 times.
Treat those top 3 the same. If you get Denzies +100 take it. Or go for the jackpot; you'll need to keep eye on the BR. Think of Turbo average of 24. Can your BR stand 24?
I found Nimo. Good dude.
Okay, while other things are happening on GF, let's try to revive the discussion a bit about our topic, and let the famous and frequently quoted text by CarpeDiem about how we have to divide everything in half, create opposite pairs and those pairs need to be mutually exclusive, become the basis for reflection.
Now...
We know that such divisions occur naturally in roulette, we have high-low, red-black, odd-even, whatever we want. So, how do we implement this in practice into our game? This is something I have been pondering for a long time. In theory, we have several options:
a) play two separate games but with the same rules and at the same time
b) play two separate games but with (slightly?) different rules at the same time. Example: We have SU, splits, streets, and lines at our disposal. MoneyT recently mentioned that some numbers are played simultaneously with splits, streets, etc., and others are not - depending on what the game dictates, spin by spin. (By the way, how? This is also an essential question. For example, do areas with more hits have greater coverage? Or maybe the other way around? Or maybe something completely different like the division into high-low, red-black, etc. is important in this case?)
c) play two separate games with the same or different rules but at different times. Example: even and odd spins.
d) ?
I have been struggling with these ideas for some time now and every time I think I am close... everything starts to slip through my fingers. Tips from those in the know and thoughts/experiences from those outside the know would be appreciated if anyone cares to share. ;)
Best regards,
duchobor
Quote from: duchobor on Sep 07, 12:31 PM 2024we have to divide everything in half, create opposite pairs and those pairs need to be mutually exclusive
Pair ElementsAs i understand The core idea is to take the 37 possible outcomes and divide them into pairs or groups that are mutually exclusive and balanced, it seems that the groups don't matter how you create then if they meet the criteria.
The critical aspect is that these pairs or groups are mutually exclusive—one outcome precludes the other,if a number is red, it cannot simultaneously be black; if it's low, it cannot be high.
[On rrbb stream a number can be both low and high]
Dependencies now;
Are those now relationships between events that affect the probability of outcomes? I don't know !
For instance when i observe that a certain numbers or groups tend to repeat more frequently under specific conditions, we identify a dependency, But i can't see it bcs again looking for something that we don't know how it looks like!
One simple thing i was thinking is for example, if i notice a trend where certain numbers in the "high" group repeat more often, you can set up a betting pattern that includes a balanced approach involving both high and low numbers, so isn't about favoring one group entirely but rather maintaining a dynamic balance that adjusts to the evolving game state. This adjustment helps in managing the natural variance that comes with random outcomes.
Seeking Balance; :/
Is the goal about creating a scenario where your bets are neither entirely dependent on one outcome nor spread thinly across all outcomes??? You want a setup where the impact of randomness is minimized because your bets cover the natural distribution of outcomes efficiently.
So it is like if betting on a specific pair (like red and black), you are not just betting on color but on the broader implication of that bet in the overall distribution of spins.
Even tho i am lost !
Carpe's posts are just regurgitated Vaddi.
Let's say i create two streams that i have divided as the pros saying;
Spin
34 pair 1
35 pair 2
22 pair 3
22 pair 4 win on first stream start with 22 + the 2nd stream
5 pair 19
34 pair 6
23 pair 7
15 pair 20
29 pair 8
26 pair 9
14 pair 10
34 pair 11 win on first stream start with 34 + the 2nd stream
24 pair 12
11 pair 25 win on second stream start with 11,12,25 + the 1st stream
After a repeat on one off the streams is everything reset ?
Does each stream has its on stats?
Cheers Alex, thanks for responding.
About your example - I've done extensive tests (you probably have too) regarding different variants. And so far the only thing that came out of it is that regardless of the way the second stream is selected (whether it's derived positional or a Vaddi-style method, where the division can run both on the hits-unhits line and red-black, even-odd, example spin 1: #7, we play #7 as 1stream and #8 as the second, or any of my own methods of creating pairs), and regardless of the way of playing, whether it's a) in the case of a hit of any stream -> reset all, or b) resetting only one stream, as in your example and continuing...
... no long enough session can be won without progression, which of course we want to avoid or significantly minimize. The conclusion is that this alone is not enough. And adding streets and lines (although the point is to create dependencies) only seems to generate more... chaos. ;)
Quote from: duchobor on Sep 08, 04:10 AM 2024only seems to generate more... chaos
Hi duchobor , i have done for sure. To me at the end it looks random again.
I thought Dependencies are when a pair A/B happen for me to get the same again i need A first then B so what i will play for B depende on First results!
How about pen and paper about all those streams ! Red asked do we use at all derived or it is for proving FACTS!
I will go back to the process thing as to me it looks the best option from rrbb!
This is continues, like if you start you keep going. I'll put lines as it is les numbers . On this i did combine the process + Pri S/D. 200 spins i am at 42 units flat bet , i know it is not a lot but still flat . How to exploit this more !
Sorry guys I'm on vacation and haven't been active...
Also I don't mind sharing some ideas or clearing up some already shared. But I do get to a point of not wanting to go further. I guess it goes back to being alone and going crazy with my own thoughts trying to figure things out or learn from what's already out there.
Anyways I've always said the problem with the forum is ppl can't think for themselves and they over complicate a path already outlined by adding more to it that makes no sense
Here is the last idea i will share on this particular topic and maybe the most revealing piece of information after carpediem post.
When speaking of opposite pairs/mutually exclusive pairs what is the goal? That's the real question...
An opposite and mutually exclusive pair what does it look like? 1/19 2/20 3/21 etc
These pairs are opposite and mutually exclusive
1 is low and 19 is high
2 is low and 20 is high
But now the elephant in the room that goes unnoticed ...
1/19 are both odd numbers
2/20 are both even numbers
So even though my pairs are mutually exclusive on one end i can still cover each pair result with 1 unit on another end just by playing ec!
With this post I exclude myself from any further conversation and go back to enjoying my vacation. O0
Mel, what you did here is sharing in another way what was proposed from rrbb. That is mod18.
I like when carpediem saying how the pairs are created it doesn't matter, on the other side we have mod18.
Let's add to that also splits 1/2, 3/4
Odd/even.
Yes, people should really think for themselves if they want to win roulette, the holy grail did not fall from the sky for anyone, and neither do the members of this forum, you have to work harder to achieve the desired victory.
Here is a fun way based on TTT..
I would appreciate any thoughts about 2doz bet what is the optimum way to go supposing we have a better hit rate. On the graph you see i just was applying the gameplay and doing a n (1,1) (3,3) (9,9,) etc, i would be in plus also flat but the profit will be less.
Thanks