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This is one of the most thinkable topic for all roulette players, playing online or in real casinos.
Which one is the biggest evil amongst these:
1. Gambling itself is the reason
2. House edge
3. Progression
4. Wrong strategy
5. Greed; or
6. All of the above

Well, in my opinion, it is wrong strategy which brings most of the players to a net loss, almost always and it is the only thing which one can improve.

All those are reason, but in the end it is always house edge. If they play bold/progression, then they win for some time but not stop, so it is a greed also. If they play more timid, house edge slowly erode their bankroll. Wrong strategy is also a reason, there are strategies how stay longer in game, but they do not make profit...

Quote from: mr.ore on Mar 30, 05:59 AM 2011
All those are reason, but in the end it is always house edge. If they play bold/progression, then they win for some time but not stop, so it is a greed also. If they play more timid, house edge slowly erode their bankroll. Wrong strategy is also a reason, there are strategies how stay longer in game, but they do not make profit...

Mr. Ore,

There are people in this forum who testify that they have a method of playing roulette that wins for them.

How do you respond to this? 

Are you saying that what they are saying is impossible?

Or are you implying that they just haven't played long enough for the house edge to finally wear them down?

Just curious.

George

It is absolutely possible for them to be long term winners. It is caused by a combination of method and luck. During my many tests, I have seen many times that a system have been winning for 100000 spins, even flat betting one unit (progressing in risk though). They always tank in the end. Even Labouchere can be winning for 10000 spins, two dozens systems also can be turned into long term winner with trailing stoploss, as long as there is enough wins between losing series of 5+.

So my answer is - they just haven't played long enough, or more accurately - they just haven't placed enough bets. They might not lose in their lifetime, of course.

Progressions lose in long term, bet selections seems not to work. I am yet to see a proof that bet selections affect something, like lenght of losing streaks, or minimal number of spins between very negative expectation sessions.

I am now experimenthing with another ideas regarding roulette. If player has edge in short term or not is due to luck. If he is lucky, then he can have edge many times during his life. There is different math for a case that player has edge, so I am thinking about looking into that, in order to know how to utilize luck.

Why most people lose in roulette?

Well they do and they don't. Most people win at roulette and then play it all back and lose what they have won and then finally lose their starting bankroll.

But remember they did and do win at roulette all the time, but they still end up shafting themselves in believing their luck will continue or their luck will return any minute now, even though they have already had a good run of luck and lustre for more.

Luck doesn't come into it when discussing the merits of a mechanical method. Luck is someone winning the lottery.

When analyzing a working mechanical method *3* CRUCIAL ELEMENTS, determine your success OR failure with that method.

STRIKERATE, SUPERIOR MONEY MANAGEMENT & DISCIPLINED MINDSET. Thats it. If any of those three essentials are lacking. It will be reflected by your results.

All this talk of luck, a method tanking on a gazzillion spin bot hold no water. They are thin excuses made by people who believe in flawed maths theories. And are frightenned to ever admit that what they were brought up on, and bow to.

Could be missing something. I for one know of THREE METHODS that absolutely destroy roulette. Random simply has no answer to them, When applied with the second and third essentials above.

There is no luck when you can win at will remember that naysayers. I have been beating this game for 11 years, making my living from it for 7 years.

And I have three methods to use to that end. One day tbe excuses of maths devotees will have to stop. And accept this games ALWAYS been beatable.

The FACT is only a very small minority have the ability to stick to the plan, and carry out the THREE ESSENTIALS day in, day out...

Well even me must say few words about the topic.
Am playing/full time/on the every day basis more
then 20 years,play in almost every casino in Europe,
now only playing airball machine/in my place and always on the same
machine/cause of getting tired of travelling,and am winning more then
I'm losing.If you think it is luck then you are wrong.Experience,
patience,and knowing what you are doing at the right time.
Positive attitude and allways large BR to win small amount.
Method......few must.

By "combination of method and luck" I meant that if you have strong method, then you are lucky that you haven't encountered some crazy scenario like standard deviation in hit rate lower than -3 in your personal permannence. By luck I also meant that if you stopped because things seemed going bad, they really went bad and then after storm is over, you jumped back and game behaved well. You can theoretically encounter very bad deviation, after some time jump out and wait, and when you decide to return, you encounter another bad deviation and so on several times. How to avoid that scenario?

I said this in another post, but the bottom line is that you either use your brain or you don't.  My opinion is that math has little to do with outcomes when you use your ability to quit, change strategies or move tables.  It's easy to say that strategies fail after a million spins, but how many of us will ever see that many spins in our lifetime? To those who are reluctant to play a solid strategy with good money management because it may fail after hundreds of thousands of spins, I say what happens when that failure takes place after you die?  You are either doing it or not, using your brain or not.  It's a choice.

You should of put an option of...OTHER.

My opinion, they bet too many numbers and NOT willing to skip some spins. Betting on every spin is not necessary. Will you be bored waiting? Yep, so what?

Ken

Skipping spins might be vital. In order to get an edge 1/37 in roulette, you have to correctly bet two spins every 37 spins that the spin loses and do not bet that spin. I have a simulation with "fake oraculum" which always bet correctly to see if it would work. It would, tested on number. "Oraculum" skips spins only if it did not hit for more than 37 spins, so all winning streak are same as in original version. I have tried to find a real oraculum for number, because it is easy to correctly bet that number it plays won't hit next spin - chance is 36/37 ;) No, I have not found it yet. For this thing to work, if it bets that number won't hit but a number hit, it has to correctly avoid losing 35 spins to make make up for it.

If you play even chances, every time you correctly bet that another spin won't be a win and avoid betting, you get a little advatage. To make game fair, you have to be correct once every 37 spins. To gain minimal advatage, you have to be correct once on top of that. Then your "baseline" is 1 unit and you beated the game. Every time you guess correctly you gained advatage.

Summary - if you guess correctly 37 losing spins (you must not fail, or correct guesses-incorrect guesses >= 37 for it to work) in 37*37 then every more than 37 is an advatage.

The things that have hurt me the most is not knowing my system so I can play it on auto pilot. 

Testing and playing at home is easssyyyy compared to playing in the casino.  There are a lot of distractions and a few missed bets can be the ruin of a progression system.

The other thing I notice among my friends is that they don't have a set way of playing in mind and stick with it.  They either bet too much when they're winning because they feel like they're suppose to win or the bet to much trying to recover from a bad luck streak.  Either way ruins their plan.

The final problem is that we don't have enough back-up money in case we hit a losing streak.  If we're tight on money, it gets hard to hang in there and make the bets necessary to pull out of the hole.

The final thing is that they haven't memorized the wheel and the carpet.  By that I mean, they don't know the order of the numbers on the wheel and they don't know what color all the numbers are on the carpet and they don't know which column every number is in, etc...  This is important for overall confidence.

I'm sure there are plenty of other factors, but enough have been mentioned to get the ideal.

Geo

"The final problem is that we don't have enough back-up money in case we hit a losing streak" >>> I agree 100% but you will read from some others, it makes no difference how much your BR is. Thats completely wrong, in my opinion.

Ken

It is very strange that nobody is cursing progression. All flat betting guys gone? I personally feel that flat bet method can't succeed in long run. Had it been possible by any method, the entire world will play that and that method/tool only.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Mar 30, 04:29 PM 2011

Could be missing something. I for one know of THREE METHODS that absolutely destroy roulette. Random simply has no answer to them, When applied with the second and third essentials above.

LMFAO why hasn't the world embraced these roulette destroying methods. Oh of course that's right everyone else doesn't have the disipline and money management to make these methods profitable. Sorry mate but that smells like horse shite. In fact it is horse shite served with a side dolop of delusion.

Quote from: 7 on Mar 31, 06:49 AM 2011
LMFAO why hasn't the world embraced these roulette destroying methods.

Probably because the world isn't ready for Mr Johnlegend yet... ;D

Quote from: 7 on Mar 31, 06:49 AM 2011
LMFAO why hasn't the world embraced these roulette destroying methods. Oh of course that's right everyone else doesn't have the disipline and money management to make these methods profitable. Sorry mate but that smells like horse shite. In fact it is horse shite served with a side dolop of delusion.

I expect no other response from a naysayer. You anwsered your own question, instead of the ridicule you ought to be finding out if Im telling the truth or not. But your mindset is the reason roulette with always be there for the small minority in the know to take advantage of. I'll say it again, while the mathematicians were telling us what random could do, they forgot to remember whats its very poor at doing.

When PATTERN BREAKER hits this forum youll get it. Even if you wont admit it. Einstein and all your other maths heroes were/are very wrong about roulettes invincibility over a mechanical method. PATTERN BREAKER will make that clear just as MATRIX VERTICAL 5 is doing on the forum right now as I write this.

Please do not distract from main debate. Get John ample time to prove himself.

Quote from: albalaha on Mar 31, 11:47 AM 2011
Please do not distract from main debate. Get John ample time to prove himself.

Thankyou Albahala, it will be in vain though. As a good friend of mine remarked. You would have an easier time convincing an ahiest that there is a God, than a maths head that random can be beaten by a mechanical method. Remember whats at stake here. Their ego and a question mark over their intelligence. For believing in flawed maths theories concerning roulette most of their lives.

Its easier to take the attitude that if its that great why isnt the world doing it. Well firstly nobody knows about PATTERN breaker. And secondly even if you hand the average Joe a betting mirracle on a plate. Most cant be bothered to even learn a method.

They want something for nothing, a fortune yesterday. THE GREED FACTOR. Thats why they play the lottery.

Exactly John,
           there can be many possibilities which have yet to be explored. those who think roulette can not be beaten, should quit playing. Go ahead with your research.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Mar 31, 12:22 PM 2011
Thankyou Albahala, it will be in vain though. As a good friend of mine remarked. You would have an easier time convincing an ahiest that there is a God, than a maths head that random can be beaten by a mechanical method. Remember what's at stake here. Their ego and a question mark over their intelligence. For believing in flawed maths theories concerning roulette most of their lives.

Its easier to take the attitude that if its that great why isnt the world doing it. Well firstly nobody knows about PATTERN breaker. And secondly even if you hand the average Joe a betting mirracle on a plate. Most can't be bothered to even learn a method.

They want something for nothing, a fortune yesterday. THE GREED FACTOR. that's why they play the lottery.

[/quoteWell and true said John,thats why I don't bother losing my
precious time any longer with pessimists,lazy workers expecting all on the plate,
and computer freaks testing methods on 10000000 spins with victorious explanations
IT DOESN'T WORK....even thought most of them never entered or seen the casino.
Do as you wish....but is it worth your effort?????

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Mar 31, 12:47 PM 2011

Quote from: Johnlegend on Mar 31, 12:22 PM 2011
Thankyou Albahala, it will be in vain though. As a good friend of mine remarked. You would have an easier time convincing an ahiest that there is a God, than a maths head that random can be beaten by a mechanical method. Remember what's at stake here. Their ego and a question mark over their intelligence. For believing in flawed maths theories concerning roulette most of their lives.

Its easier to take the attitude that if its that great why isnt the world doing it. Well firstly nobody knows about PATTERN breaker. And secondly even if you hand the average Joe a betting mirracle on a plate. Most can't be bothered to even learn a method.

They want something for nothing, a fortune yesterday. THE GREED FACTOR. that's why they play the lottery.

[/quoteWell and true said John,that's why I don't bother losing my
precious time any longer with pessimists,lazy workers expecting all on the plate,
and computer freaks testing methods on 10000000 spins with victorious explanations
IT DOESN'T WORK....even thought most of them never entered or seen the casino.
Do as you wish....but is it worth your effort?????

Good question Flatino, maybe not. This is how I ultimately see it. Those who come with an open mind and an understanding that beating roulette is not for lazy wishy washy people to begin with. Will learn something. Whether its your constant winning bet, the matrix. Or the system I will introduce April 8th.

The reward is there for those with the patience and work ethic to realize constant winning is very possible.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Mar 31, 04:30 PM 2011
The reward is there for those with the patience and work ethic

Couldn't have said it any better.  Keep going, many are listening, then doing their own testing, then making a decision whether to play it or not.  Thanks for sharing.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Mar 31, 11:42 AM 2011
I expect no other response from a naysayer. You anwsered your own question, instead of the ridicule you ought to be finding out if I'm telling the truth or not. But your mindset is the reason roulette with always be there for the small minority in the know to take advantage of. I'll say it again, while the mathematicians were telling us what random could do, they forgot to remember what's its very poor at doing.

When PATTERN BREAKER hits this forum youll get it. Even if you wont admit it. Einstein and all your other maths heroes were/are very wrong about roulettes invincibility over a mechanical method. PATTERN BREAKER will make that clear just as MATRIX VERTICAL 5 is doing on the forum right now as I write this.

Yes John I don't believe in fairy tales of beating real randomness and nor should you for that matter drone on and on in an evangelical manner that you have the answers when you clearly don't.

If and when physicists start to understand the nature of randomness maybe then you might have a starting point to work on a theoretical method. But for now I will view your methods with the skeptism they deserve.

Quote from: 7 on Apr 01, 06:32 PM 2011
Yes John I don't believe in fairy tales of beating real randomness and nor should you for that matter drone on and on in an evangelical manner that you have the answers when you clearly don't.

If and when physicists start to understand the nature of randomness maybe then you might have a starting point to work on a theoretical emethod. But for now I will view your methods with the skeptism they deserve.

UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF RANDOMNESS, I understand it just fine. I'll give these physicists you place on a pedestal a lesson to put on their hardrives.

You go ahead and remain steeped in ignorance, and do your best to keep the myths alive. I know and more importantly have working methods to show irrefutable proof. Random has limits that can be read and forged into functional methods to exploit.

The fairytale is the flawed outdated tripe you will do anything you can to protect and uphold. More and more OPENMINDED people are going to realize this by the time Im done.