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Roulette-focused => Main Roulette Board => Topic started by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 03:41 PM 2010

Title: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 03:41 PM 2010
Gents,
Attached same Wiesbaden session as in my other thread/as have no time to write
new numbers/

Study for these that cant win.

---stop los--100
---stop win-any + restart the game.

Test it/specially for you Jordan/and find out how the randomness is beatting randomness.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: warrior on Jul 22, 04:00 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 03:41 PM 2010
Gents,
Attached same Wiesbaden session as in my other thread/as have no time to write
new numbers/

Study for these that can't win.

---stop los--100
---stop-win-any + restart the game.

Test it/specially for you Jordan/and find out how the randomness is beatting randomness.
THIS MIGHT BE A STUPID ? BUT HOW ARE YOU BETTING? IBOBA
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 04:11 PM 2010
1-UP ON A LOS
1-DOWN ON A WIN.

after any plus--restart-in continuation.

Very very rarely it can lose its BR of 100

It survives all kind of patterns/which is very evident from the attachment/
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: warrior on Jul 22, 04:18 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 04:11 PM 2010
1-UP ON A LOS
1-DOWN ON A WIN.

after any plus--restart-in continuation.

Very very rarely it can lose its BR of 100

It survives all kind of patterns/which is very evident from the attachment/
no i understand the progression ,wherE are we betting because you have three methods of play  DBL THEN LAST DECISION, AND THE OPPOSITE SO IM CONFUSED THANKS IBOBA W.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 04:34 PM 2010
Why being confused Warrior.
Yes betting black and red at the same time
--penultimate--last decision--opposite--

The only way this can lose,it would be if it starts to be no random,
but since it continues its randomness,in all kind of different patterns
it always comes out on top.

It control ---runs-chops either way.

Try it and you be surprised.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: warrior on Jul 22, 04:40 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Jul 22, 04:34 PM 2010
Why being confused Warrior.
Yes betting black and red at the same time
--penultimate--last decision--opposite--

The only way this can lose,it would be if it starts to be no random,
but since it continues its randomness,in all kind of different patterns
it always comes out on top.

It control ---runs-chops either way.

Try it and you be surprised.
Thats what i thought at first but then i thought it cant be ok i will try it thanks iboba w.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Jordan on Jul 24, 11:07 AM 2010
Ioba why u think that with this kind of game the -1 on a win  and +1 in a loss is the best progression?

thanx
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 24, 11:53 AM 2010
Quote from: Jordan on Jul 24, 11:07 AM 2010
Ioba why you think that with this kind of game the -1 on a win  and +1 in a loss is the best progression?

thanx
Cause in a night session,of about 350 spins,you would approx.have about
90-110 direct wins/on trends,chops and others/and since your stop-lose BR=100,also loses
approximately 1 of 4 sessions,therefore its not need to go in any extreme progression,
as it wins slovely but sure.Try testing 8-12 sessions of any casino perm.-and you will
see.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Jordan on Jul 24, 12:33 PM 2010
1st of all please forive my privious behaviour I am just  having a health problem (with my blood) recently and I was not OK to U.

Can u tell me please If with the formula +1 on loss and -1 on win If we are + when we are having more losses than wins?

thanx
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 24, 01:50 PM 2010
Quote from: Jordan on Jul 24, 12:33 PM 2010
1st of all please forive my privious behaviour I am just  having a health problem (with my blood) recently and I was not OK to U.

Can you tell me please If with the formula +1 on loss and -1 on win If we are + when we are having more losses than wins?

thanx
You should look after your health with blood pressure.
When ever you are in plus/even 1 unit/you start a new game,as it is very hard/but it happens/to lose 100 un.BR -STOP-LOS.....as when in trends you are winning on 2 bets---penultimate and last decision---while on chops you are winning penultimate and opposite---the only possibility of losing 100 un is;RRBBRRBBRRBBRRBBRRBBRR--here you would be winning some zig-zags on last decisions and opposite bets,but the penultimate would eat your BR of 100 un.----and this happens 0nce in about4- 5 sessions...which still makes you a winner on a long run.Problem is that people.have no patience to explore manually---
/color]
BTW--some ppl.that I have introduced with this possible bet said;This surely can not work/and that is as far as they went--just said that--but neither of them show that it can not work,as I do with original sessions of Wiesbaden spins,which,btw-will show few more sessions when will get the time.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Jordan on Jul 24, 02:20 PM 2010
Hehe..I don't have blood pressure problem but that ok,.I will still take care....

But you didn t answered my question...

with the formula +1 on loss and -1 on win... CAN we be in profit  when we are having more losses than wins?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 24, 02:23 PM 2010
Quote from: Jordan on Jul 24, 02:20 PM 2010
Hehe..I don't have blood pressure problem but that ok,.I will still take care....

But you didn t answered my question...

with the formula +1 on loss and -1 on win... CAN we be in profit  when we are having more losses than wins?
Cause we can,what you can grasp it from the attachment---that session won 81 units.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: dennisbelle on Jul 24, 02:29 PM 2010
I like this method.   I ran my first test over shoe 2 in the Zumma baccarat tester book and was up to +11 units then ran into the terrible two's and hit the stop loss.   I wonder if it would be good to follow the two's once they have established a pattern and then switch back to the penultimate once the two's break?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 24, 03:42 PM 2010
Quote from: dennisbelle on Jul 24, 02:29 PM 2010
I like this method.   I ran my first test over shoe 2 in the Zumma baccarat tester book and was up to +11 units then ran into the terrible two's and hit the stop-loss.   I wonder if it would be good to follow the two's once they have established a pattern and then switch back to the penultimate once the two's break?
Since don't play or study bacc.can't unswer on your question,as to lose BR of 100 un.--should happen this,no hits with penultimate,either way.
R---1-
R---2-3-
B---3-6-
B---4-10-
R---5-15-
R---6-21-
B---7-28-
B---8-36-
R---9-45-
R--10-55-
B--11-66-
B--12-78-
R--13-91-
R--14-103-

Other 2 bets not counting here as these would be equalised in situation like this-
and one never knows when it will start or stop anything....thats why,in normal un even
distirbution/without long negative runs as shown above/this method versus randomness
wins more then it loses.Suppose you can wait for changes of patterns,any for that matter.

Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 25, 01:16 PM 2010
hey, as I started to test, it looks like usualy we bet on both colors... I think it is beter to skip bet if bet on colors is the same.. and if bet is diferent then we play just diference of bets on the dominant color... So the winnings stay the same but when 0 strikes it is not that painful..
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Lulloz on Jul 25, 01:40 PM 2010
Very good one, i like this system !!

Thx for sharing.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 25, 03:44 PM 2010
100 spin test.. drawdown was right after two zeros striked... As I was betting like I suggested - I didn't lost very much on zeros..
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Bayes on Jul 25, 03:57 PM 2010
Just to clarify, are you supposed to pick one bet selection for each side (red/black) and use a D'Alembert independently on each?

Why 3 different bet selections in the spreadsheet?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 04:32 PM 2010
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 25, 03:57 PM 2010
Just to clarify, are you supposed to pick one bet selection for each side (red/black) and use a D'Alembert independently on each?

Why 3 different bet selections in the spreadsheet?
It actually relies on 3 different bets,that are supporting each other in a way
where a penultimate ---in runs,and chops---are generators of whole project.
RRBBRRBBRRBBRR---THESE 14 SPINS WILL EAT YOUR BR OF 105 UN.
It happens once and again,but nevertheless the method does well on the long run.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 25, 04:47 PM 2010
test 2
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 05:02 PM 2010
Boo Ray,
Nice of you for testing it,but my suggestion would be to test it on the
350-400 spin basis/usual night session/---and since am old fashion chap,
I can't read these charts,so if you could tell me results.
BTW-only Lapartage condition.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Bayes on Jul 25, 05:31 PM 2010
Ok, what I wrote didn't make sense.  ;D

If you're betting all 3 (DBL, FTL, OLD) then you will lose if the table is very choppy won't you?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Lulloz on Jul 25, 05:39 PM 2010
Try to play at Betvoyager no zero table, it works great.

Work great don't mean infallible, but great :)

Very nice one Flatino , thx.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 05:41 PM 2010
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 25, 05:31 PM 2010
Ok, what I wrote didn't make sense.  ;D

If you're betting all 3 (DBL, FTL, OLD) then you will lose if the table is very choppy won't you?
On the contrary--every choppy outcome wins 1 unit---winning on opp.a nd penultimate;
r
b
r
b
r
b
...........and after each win restart a new game......on chops you are losing on trends 1 unit--
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Bayes on Jul 25, 05:44 PM 2010
Yes, it's been a long day...  :D

Do you reset each separate progression when you are in profit overall? (new high balance).
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 05:49 PM 2010
Quote from: Lulloz on Jul 25, 05:39 PM 2010
Try to play at Betvoyager no zero table, it works great.

Work great don't mean infallible, but great :)

Very nice one F_LAT_INO , thx.
Nothing is great in roulette,Lulloz.
The advantage of this playing is that you are not,chasing,waiting or greatly progressing
to win your unit,just playing up with randomness in its natural way.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Lulloz on Jul 25, 06:01 PM 2010
I'm a fan of random vs random but i never have see it applied on EC this way.

I'm trying my way with single numbers but i'm writing right now my "rules" directly on the table       and that's not easy at all ;)

Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 06:01 PM 2010
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 25, 05:44 PM 2010
Yes, it's been a long day...  :D

Do you reset each separate progression when you are in profit overall? (new high balance).

Restart 1 un.on each......but for these that 1 un.is to much ---can continue with + - 1 chip
as as unit in EU is usually 10 euros---chip 2 euros,so instead of ;

penultimate                 last dec.           opposite

1-L                                  1-W                   1-L.......NOW CONTINUE
6-CHIPS                          5-CHIPS             6-CHIPS

less win on the long run,but also harder to lose a BR,stop-los.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 25, 06:17 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 05:02 PM 2010
Boo Ray,
Nice of you for testing it,but my suggestion would be to test it on the
350-400 spin basis/usual night session/---and since am old fashion chap,
I can't read these charts,so if you could tell me results.
BTW-only Lapartage condition.


Test1: +31 at spin 100... highest peak +35.. maximum drawdown: 35units
Test2: +41 at spin 100... highest peak +41.. maximum drawdown: 30units

I will try to test with more spins.. but for now I will do a couple more 100spin tests.. I think it can't be too different... more short term tests is equal to less longer tests :) but you are more concentrated on short sessions therefore less room for error..
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 25, 06:34 PM 2010
Boo Ray,

Could you show us example how you are doing this betting--
As I pressume that you are doing it different/maybe you find even better way-LOL/
Since it is almost impossible that this method could win 41 un.in 100 spins---as it
should be winning, as you have presented,every 2,7 spin 1 unit.
I'm sure you are doing it wrongly,but show us how---maybe we got the better bet the way you do it.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 26, 12:26 AM 2010
well..example: if there is a bet 2units on red and 5 on black I only put 3 units on black...
More examples:
BET: 5 on RED/ 6 on BLACK.. I Bet 1 on BLACK
BET: 4 on RED/ 2 on BLACK.. I Bet 2 on RED
BET: 3 on RED/ 3 on BLACK.. I skip the bet

I bet on 1 collor only...
It should be better... Because profit on bets is the same just less volatile on zeros..

Tracking and progression is the same..
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: keel44 on Jul 26, 01:09 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Jul 26, 12:26 AM 2010
Well..example: if there is a bet 2units on red and 5 on black I only put 3 units on black...
More examples:
BET: 5 on RED/ 6 on BLACK.. I Bet 1 on BLACK
BET: 4 on RED/ 2 on BLACK.. I Bet 2 on RED
BET: 3 on RED/ 3 on BLACK.. I skip the bet

I bet on 1 collor only...
It should be better... Because profit on bets is the same just less volatile on zeros..

Tracking and progression is the same..


Well, that is what you are supposed to do Boo Ray.  

Your results indicate you didn't reset all 3 bet selections back to 1...1...1 when your balance reaches a new high point.  If you did reset, I can't imagine that high of a profit from only 100 spins.



KEEL
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Bayes on Jul 26, 02:35 AM 2010
Number Six has done some testing (link:://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/random-versus-random-winning-ways/msg116096/?topicseen#msg116096).
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 26, 03:37 AM 2010
test 3
+4 at spin 100... It did recovered to a new high(+36) at spin 119

@keel
I did reset on a new high...

Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Bayes on Jul 26, 03:56 AM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Jul 24, 01:50 PM 2010

the only possibility of losing 100 un is;RRBBRRBBRRBBRRBBRRBBRR
/color]

If this were the ONLY way you could lose 100 it would happen less often than once every 4 - 5 sessions. The problem is when you get a longer sequence with double chops, not necessarily consecutive, and this happens more often.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 06:19 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Jul 26, 12:26 AM 2010
Well..example: if there is a bet 2units on red and 5 on black I only put 3 units on black...
More examples:
BET: 5 on RED/ 6 on BLACK.. I Bet 1 on BLACK
BET: 4 on RED/ 2 on BLACK.. I Bet 2 on RED
BET: 3 on RED/ 3 on BLACK.. I skip the bet

I bet on 1 collor only...
It should be better... Because profit on bets is the same just less volatile on zeros..

Tracking and progression is the same..
Yes I have thought so,as am working on something similar to addopt to this bet...but when the time comes.Thanks,BR
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 06:32 AM 2010
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 26, 02:35 AM 2010
Number Six has done some testing (link:://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/random-versus-random-winning-ways/msg116096/?topicseen#msg116096).
Number six sessions are of approximately 157 spins,and am sure the
results would be quite different if it was tested as I suggested 350-400 spins
real night session.Also have stated you can stop play in any state of the game when some in plus....as he stated this method is almost in every session about 20 un. in plus....and what I also stated player with experience almost can predict coming of a bad flaw.
Its up to the individual.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 06:41 AM 2010
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 26, 03:56 AM 2010
If this were the ONLY way you could lose 100 it would happen less often than once every 4 - 5 sessions. The problem is when you get a longer sequence with double chops, not necessarily consecutive, and this happens more often.
Oh no it is not the only way/it was literally expression/--double chops
not consecutive also can hurt you,but here you just relie on randomness and expectation it will turn your way.No Houdini stuff,only follow the certain patterns/which are painted
on your spreadsheet/knowing when to escape from these negative trends.
It is very easy and readable.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Jordan on Jul 26, 06:49 AM 2010
Did u see that No6 tested this system and it tanked?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 07:02 AM 2010
Quote from: Jordan on Jul 26, 06:49 AM 2010
Did you see that No6 tested this system and it tanked?
And did you read my post above about that????
This method DO NOT TANK......but you better test it personally as I suggested to you,
then tell me if it still works or not.
Ppl.should find out for themselfes,not relai on other informations,as such informations could be purposely missleading.Hopping that you got what I mean.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Bayes on Jul 26, 07:15 AM 2010
F_LAT_INO,

Someone on the other forum said you have tested 46 sessions with 9 losses (of 100 units). Were the session lengths all between 350 - 400 spins?

Do you have any record of the largest stake placed from all those sessions?

Thanks.

p.s. maybe "medo" is you, I don't know.  :)
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 07:53 AM 2010
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 26, 07:15 AM 2010
F_LAT_INO,

Someone on the other forum said you have tested 46 sessions with 9 losses (of 100 units). Were the session lengths all between 350 - 400 spins?

Do you have any record of the largest stake placed from all those sessions?

Thanks.

p.s. maybe "medo" is you, I don't know.  :)
True.Never ever posted any method without throughouly testing it.
Sessions between 237 to 512 spins--14.....7......4-----25 on all 3 bets,
and in all 9 losing sessions the actual los was between 104 t0 118 ujnits.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 26, 09:13 AM 2010
test4: +28 at spin 100... highest peak +30.. maximum drawdown: 27units
at spin 101 ballance was +35
+20 @spin 78

very good so far :)
actualy in none of these sessions I wasn't even near of busting 100unit bank... I was never down more than 40units...
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 12:40 PM 2010
good on you,Boo_ Ray,
Think we really get somewhere here.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: keel44 on Jul 26, 01:04 PM 2010
Yet again in these forums, people do NOT know how to interpret the testing results.  I have looked over "number 6" test results.  The results are actually very good.  Knowing when to quit is critical.  Any mechanical system will fail long term tests......its in the Maths.  It Does not mean this system "tanked"

Play it one spin at a time like in the real world.  You will find out for sure what to expect.

(like Boo Ray)




KEEL
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 26, 01:30 PM 2010
Quote from: keel44 on Jul 26, 01:04 PM 2010
Yet again in these forums, people do NOT know how to interpret the testing results.  I have looked over "number 6" test results.  The results are actually very good.  Knowing when to quit is critical.  Any mechanical system will fail long term tests......its in the Maths.  It Does not mean this system "tanked"

Play it one spin at a time like in the real world.  You will find out for sure what to expect.

(like Boo Ray)
Exactly as I pointed out,Keel 44,---One can stop play when some in plus--One can almost predict bad run in this kind of method--It is up to the individual..............
Experienced players know how to do it.I just give a base others should addapt it to
theirs way of playing.




KEEL
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 12:23 AM 2010
Also have you noticed in thread of number6 that it actualy held up for 9000 spins (link:://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/random-versus-random-winning-ways/?action=dlattach;attach=6075;image (link:://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/random-versus-random-winning-ways/?action=dlattach;attach=6075;image)).. then it vent down.. with a stoploss that could be prevented

Also... When tested with a stop-loss he stated: "the results are still due to random chance"..
What about the first test then?

He also stated: "In short, the bet selection can't work and betting 3 ECs at the same time will lead to devestating drawdowns"...

Which is clear indicator that he did testing wrong...

Still I am not claiming that this is a longterm winner(maybe it is), but it is good so far and method realy gets thru most of patterns which are actualy prety shortlived..

I never pay much attention to big guys who have "Chief, Dream-Killer" in their signiture just to show how bad ass they are... my advice: Use the least amount of energy to communicate with that species (which is more or less imposible)...If they wan't it that way - let them be that way... Do they do any harm to you? - my prediction: no... So why bother?
In real play I personaly play on physical aproach (to learn that tehniques no computer helped me), but I am still searching for a method that could be played on every table without metting the specified requirements first..
And why not give it a try...

With their powerfull almighty computers they run some random amount of tests... And they get 2 types of results: 1: system doesn't work.. 2: the results is due to random chance...
So the computer is so smart that it even tells you when the result is due to random chance... And from my experience I can tell you that no computarized test will end up good..

number6 is a computer wizzard who never stepped out of his virtual world, that is why he is so "Internet strong" on forums  (some say: internet hero = real life zero) ... That may be offensive for some eyes, but truth speaks for itself.. I know alot of n6 alike humans in real life because I am also computer engineer, but computers are not my life...

lets get back to topic...
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Blood Angel on Jul 27, 02:08 AM 2010
Nice post Boo_Ray ....thanks
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 02:36 AM 2010
Test5: -46 at spin 100... highest peak +25.. maximum drawdown: 81units
+20 @spin 61
at spin 115 it recovered to a positive +6
at spin 134 it recovered to a new high of +32

even though a big drawdaw - it didn't busted the 100 unit bank..
I will go through my tests and check how much bank I needed for that mysterious +15 units which claimed by n6 - 1500unit bank would be needed..


Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 02:44 AM 2010
For a win goal of +15
Bank needed for test 1: 10units
Bank needed for test 2: 26units
Bank needed for test 3: 7units
Bank needed for test 4: 50units
Bank needed for test 5: 7units
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 27, 03:31 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 02:36 AM 2010
Test5: -46 at spin 100... highest peak +25.. maximum drawdown: 81units
+20 @spin 61
at spin 115 it recovered to a positive +6
at spin 134 it recovered to a new high of +32

even though a big drawdaw - it didn't busted the 100 unit bank..
I will go through my tests and check how much bank I needed for that mysterious +15 units which claimed by n6 - 1500unit bank would be needed.


That is about average as I have stated.
I play last night,from 12-5 this morning 288 spins in continuation
and won 57 units.Also was 24+ at spin 70,then about even at spin 100,
then down 14 at spin 120,and finally won 57 un......which proves its
randomness in natural way.You are doing a great job Boo_Ray,and I think
we could improve this bet to something real worth.Am also working on
it,but it goes slow with me.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: warrior on Jul 27, 06:45 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 02:36 AM 2010
Test5: -46 at spin 100... highest peak +25.. maximum drawdown: 81units
+20 @spin 61
at spin 115 it recovered to a positive +6
at spin 134 it recovered to a new high of +32

even though a big drawdaw - it didn't busted the 100 unit bank..
I will go through my tests and check how much bank I needed for that mysterious +15 units which claimed by n6 - 1500unit bank would be needed..



BOO RAY ARE YOU PLAYING THIS THE ORIGINAL WAY OR OR THE WAY YOU STATED EARLYER THANX.W
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 09:08 AM 2010
I test the original way.. but never betting both collors at the same time
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: warrior on Jul 27, 09:36 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 09:08 AM 2010
I test the original way.. but never betting both collors at the same time
OK THANX W.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 27, 11:44 AM 2010
Gents,
I have just did some re checkings on 46 tested sessions.
Winning 37 and losing 9 sessions,would be profit of 1403 units.

Then re checked same sessions the way N6 suggested-stop win-15 units.
In this case there would be 42 winning sessions out of 46,
but the profit would only be 290 units.

It speaks for itself.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 27, 12:14 PM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 09:08 AM 2010
I test the original way.. but never betting both collors at the same time
Boo_Ray,
Forgive my ignorance,but am confused some about your way.
Could you kindly explain it with several spins.
R
R
B
R
R
R
B
R
B
B
B
R
B

As I cant grasp it as yet,as it little differ from the idea I have.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Blood Angel on Jul 27, 01:54 PM 2010
I believe it's card differential betting. Let's say YOUR method Iboba says to bet 2 on black and 1 on red ,then the bet would be one on black only.(take lowest away from highest and bet the difference) As Boo_Ray says this would save chips when the zero hits.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 02:20 PM 2010
R
R
bet1 on R
B
bet 1 on B
R
Bet 1 on R
R profit +1 start again
bet 1 on R
R profit +1 start again
Bet 1 on R
B
Bet 1 on R
R
Bet 1 on R
B
Bet 2 on B
B profit +1 start again
Bet 1 on B
B profit +1 start again
Bet 1 on B
R
Bet 1 on B
B

I think I did it right... I am not used to make tests here on board
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 02:23 PM 2010
Quote from: Blood Angel on Jul 27, 01:54 PM 2010
I believe it's card differential betting. Let's say YOUR method Iboba says to bet 2 on black and 1 on red ,then the bet would be one on black only.(take lowest away from highest and bet the difference) As Boo_Ray says this would save chips when the zero hits.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Jul 27, 02:47 PM 2010
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thanks
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 27, 03:20 PM 2010
Test6: -1 at spin 100... highest peak +22.. maximum drawdown: 25
+20 at spin 75
and It recovered on a new high on spin 105 to a +24

So, aiming at 100 spins then getting out on a new high would result in +203
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 28, 09:17 AM 2010
Real money session 1: Brilliant session... ended with +32 @spin 71
It was only a small drawdown at the beginning but later it went great :)
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Jul 28, 11:23 AM 2010
Test7: -91 at spin 55... highest peak +3.. maximum drawdown: 94units

A losing session
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 04, 11:36 AM 2010
 I have started this thread with;

Study for these that can not win.

And after first losing session of Boo-Ray......
there is no more response to this.

Shame,but never mind,as thatway you will
never get where you went to.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Kattila on Aug 04, 12:07 PM 2010
People  don t  understand  is necesary much more tests.
If they see  one or two lost sessions, they belive  is a bad system.
No system will win every session, we know that, important is  win
more than lose .
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 04, 01:35 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 04, 11:36 AM 2010
I have started this thread with;

Study for these that can not win.

And after first losing session of Boo-Ray......
there is no more response to this.

And am ending it wit,;

Shame,but never mind,as that way you will
never get where you went to.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Aug 04, 06:00 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 04, 11:36 AM 2010
I have started this thread with;

Study for these that can not win.

And after first losing session of Boo-Ray......
there is no more response to this.

Shame,but never mind,as thatway you will
never get where you went to.

F_LAT_INO,

Thanks for the system.

I have been on vacation and very busy the last few weeks, but I will spend a little time seeing how easy it is to play this system.

I have yet to see you post a system that isn't worth pursuing more than just until there's a losing session posted.  Boo_Ray's tests, in conjunction with your tests, certainly show that this is worthy of consideration.

I know that you test your systems thoroughly before posting them but if more of us put our heads together on this, we might be surprised at how it can perform.

Thanks,

GLC
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 05, 04:27 AM 2010
This should be tested without a zero,
as I personally have found -en prison-table
in Slovenia,and there is many such tables
around EU.Therefore should be tested as
originally presented,playing all 3 possibilities.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Aug 19, 12:16 AM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 05, 04:27 AM 2010
This should be tested without a zero,
as I personally have found -en prison-table
in Slovenia,and there is many such tables
around EU.Therefore should be tested as
originally presented,playing all 3 possibilities.

I have been hand testing this on a single zero wheel and am staying well ahead of the losses.  I'm sure it will do even better on an -en prison- table without zeros.  Being US based and not wanting to violate any laws, I don't have access to such a table.  I hear that they may be changing the laws regarding internet gambling; so who knows what the future holds.

It now appears we have 2 winning systems published by F_LAT_INO; RANDOM VS RANDOM and Consistent Winning Bet.  Consistent Winning Bet is a little hard to play on an airball machine with a very small table display for placing bets, but Random VS Random is very doable.

Did you publish any winners in the past under IBOBA that we could resurrect and look at again?

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 19, 04:00 AM 2010
Yes George I did.Steves RF--and wasn't posting on old VLS,cause was in Compas
secret section-_FOR A GOOD CAUSE--and we only research among us.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 19, 05:48 AM 2010
And BTW George R versus R is a sure winner on En prison table,
as am playing it constantly now.Should be same with 0 table where you
lose half.Other tables 0/00 with stop W/L rules.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 19, 06:23 AM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 19, 05:48 AM 2010
And by the way George R versus R is a sure winner on En prison table,
as am playing it constantly now.Should be same with 0-La partage table where you
lose half.Other tables 0/00 with stop W/L rules.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Aug 19, 01:41 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 19, 05:48 AM 2010
And by the way George R versus R is a sure winner on En prison table,
as am playing it constantly now.Should be same with 0 table where you
lose half.Other tables 0/00 with stop W/L rules.

Thanks my friend:

I think I will concentrate on the R vs R system.  As long as it wins on a consistent basis, no use wasting too much time and brain power on other systems.

Keep Winning,

G
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 19, 02:16 PM 2010
You will find,George,playing it on 0/00 tables it is
usually in plus some/15-20 un./in almost every session,
so you should concetrate on that fact and make stop win
in these frameworks.BTW--you could test your dozens on the
same basis,and in case you can't grasp it,PM me.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Aug 20, 12:15 AM 2010
F_LAT_INO,

I was testing this system exactly as you presented it and was losing.  Hovering around  the -50's.

I had a crazy idea to try the boffin or boffit bet progression.  Play the bet selection as presented in your spreadsheet.  Instead of betting up 1 on a loss, minus 1 on a win and start over when at a new high, bet the let-it-ride system.  You begin by betting 1 unit on all three: penultimate, follow the last and opposite the last.  If you win, you let it ride for one more spin.  If you lose, your next bet on that decision is 2 units etc... anytime you win 2 in a row on any of your bets, start over at 1 unit on that decision.  If you lose, increase next bet by 1 unit.  If you win; let-it-ride, and then lose the let-it-ride bet, increase the next bet my 1 unit.

I was using 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.  If we lose the 7 steps, we start over at 1.  Play each bet selection independently.  Anytime we find ourselves at zero or +, we start over with 1 on all three.

This is working very well.  Those same numbers netted me +18 units instead of -45 and the lowest drawdown was -14.  This was on a single zero wheel.  It isn't much of a test, but I'm tired right now.  I'll test more tomorrow when I have time.

Cheers,

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 20, 05:09 AM 2010
Quote from: GLC on Aug 20, 12:15 AM 2010
F_LAT_INO,

I was testing this system exactly as you presented it and was losing.  Hovering around  the -50's.

I had a crazy idea to try the boffin or boffit bet progression.  Play the bet selection as presented in your spreadsheet.  Instead of betting up 1 on a loss, minus 1 on a win and start over when at a new high, bet the let-it-ride system.  You begin by betting 1 unit on all three: penultimate, follow the last and opposite the last.  If you win, you let it ride for one more spin.  If you lose, your next bet on that decision is 2 units etc... anytime you win 2 in a row on any of your bets, start over at 1 unit on that decision.  If you lose, increase next bet by 1 unit.  If you win; let-it-ride, and then lose the let-it-ride bet, increase the next bet my 1 unit.

I was using 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.  If we lose the 7 steps, we start over at 1.  Play each bet selection independently.  Anytime we find ourselves at zero or +, we start over with 1 on all three.

This is working very well.  Those same numbers netted me +18 units instead of -45 and the lowest drawdown was -14.  This was on a single zero wheel.  It isn't much of a test, but I'm tired right now.  I'll test more tomorrow when I have time.

Cheers,

George
Nice of you for testing it.
I pressume it could be play in many different ways.
BTW-You didn't reach stop/los limit of 100,as it recovers very quickly
and I have stated it loses 1 out of 4 sessions.Try some more test
if you get the time and you will find out what i'm talking about.
I'm winning on en prison table constantly.......but with cappuccino breaks
after every 10-12 units in +-----then continue later....it works great.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: iggiv on Aug 20, 11:34 PM 2010
I could make some mistakes, but here is my  chart.

[attachthumb=#]

Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 21, 04:23 AM 2010
Quote from: iggiv on Aug 20, 11:34 PM 2010
I could make some mistakes, but here is my  chart.

[attachthumb=#]


Iggiv dear,
Since I can't read these/old fashion man/could you pl.tell me results.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: iggiv on Aug 21, 11:09 AM 2010
Looking good so far. for about 80 spins. going slowly up to 10 units then slowly down to -5 units then slowly up to 12 units. Small downdraw, results were tending to go up, then down just a little then up again.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 21, 05:27 PM 2010
Quote from: iggiv on Aug 21, 11:09 AM 2010
Looking good so far. for about 80 spins. going slowly up to 10 units then slowly down to -5 units then slowly up to 12 units. Small downdraw, results were tending to go up, then down just a little then up again.
In other words....it shows all attributes of long run winning bet.
Test some more and you will find out same as  I did.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: iggiv on Aug 21, 06:55 PM 2010
it is possible (it is not based on a table layout, but on different events) , i wish it is winning in a long run with no too high downdraw.  yes, needs lots of testing.

thank you for the idea.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: iggiv on Aug 22, 03:45 PM 2010
2nd successful short session. went  went up and down between -2 and +5 , finished at +5 again . about 20 spins.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: iggiv on Aug 22, 04:17 PM 2010
I suggest trying this: let's say we have previous lose 3 times. we bet on 4th time 4 units. it wins. instead of resetting it down to 1 unit, we can lower it to 4-1 =3 units.

my logic is that if it lost too many times in a row maybe it will start winning more afterwards.
and say, opposite won 3 times in a row, we may stop putting units on it till it loses.
and of course if we should put 3 units on red and 2 on black we instead put 1 unit on read
in case of zero kiss.

i won over 10 units easily like this within 15 spins without losing more than 2 units.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 22, 05:05 PM 2010
Could be play as it suits each individual,but I'm playing it on En Prison table only,
thats why zero doesn't affect my play.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Aug 23, 10:36 PM 2010
Another test on a single zero wheel.

39 spins
-22 largest drawdown
+13  won

Bet progression was +1 on loss, -1 on win
Anytime bankroll was at 0 or +, start over with 1 unit bets.

Fairly easy win.

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Aug 24, 03:01 AM 2010
I kind of fall asleep on this method.. I will test some more when I find time (using GLCs version)
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 24, 03:29 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Aug 24, 03:01 AM 2010
I kind of fall asleep on this method.. I will test some more when I find time (using GLCs version)

LOL-You wouldn't do that in casino,would you.
Will get back to you when time allows me,as there is lot of talk to be done.
Didn't forget.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Aug 24, 02:07 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 24, 03:29 AM 2010
LoL-You wouldn't do that in casino,would you.
Will get back to you when time allows me,as there is lot of talk to be done.
Didn't forget.

I mean that I havent tested it for a while now :)
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Aug 24, 06:20 PM 2010
Next test on Single 0

33 spins
21 units = largest drawdown
19 units accumulated along the way

Not sure exactly why this works, but so far so good.

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Aug 25, 05:32 AM 2010
maybe a stoploss on -50 or -60 would bring some good longterm results.. what do you think?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 25, 06:16 AM 2010
Quote from: Boo_Ray on Aug 25, 05:32 AM 2010
Maybe a stoploss on -50 or -60 would bring some good longterm results.. what do you think?
Lot of times it recovers on about 70-80 dr,do.
which is only showing it randomness in the real way.
George,
Same unswer.On en prison table it just seems that it can't lose.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Boo_Ray on Aug 25, 08:05 AM 2010
I still want to do some more tests without en prison rules :)
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: iggiv on Sep 09, 02:24 PM 2010
what's new, guys? any positive (negative) results with this system?

i had no time to test unfortunately but i am planning to
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: warrior on Sep 25, 09:02 PM 2010
F_LAT_INO I can't PM YOU FOR SOME REASON THE NAME WONT GO THROUGH PM ME AND I WILL RETURN THE PM THIS WAY I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY TO YOU WARRIOR.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: A3on on Sep 25, 11:58 PM 2010
Who can get me the RX code to test this system?
:-[
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 26, 04:14 PM 2010
Hear Ye, hear ye, hear ye,

For all interested in a winning system. 

I am going to test this system.  Brother F_LAT_INO has assured us that he wins with this system on a consistent basis. 

In all fairness, he does use en prison table which cuts the house advantage down to about 1.25%.

I will test this system using archived spins from Weisbaden.  I will give the date and table so that anyone who wishes can double check in case things turn out to be too good to be true.

I will start with a bank of 600 units.

I will play the system exactly as FLATINO presented it.

Betting Penultimate, Last and Opposite last.

I will bet differentially to minimize the effect of zero.

I will use the '+1 on loss' '-1 on win' progression.

I am going to play 12 sessions. 

Each session will consist of a win of at least 25 units for 6 games vs a loss of 100 units for 1 game. 

This will net me at least 50 units per session.

If at any point, I reach +600 units, I will consider the test a success. 

If I think it necessary, and have the time,  I will play 84 games which is 12 sessions times 7 games each.

If I reach +25 units, I will continue on to as long as I don't lose back more than 10% of my highest point.  In this way, I may be able to capitalize on extended winning streaks.

If I have a bet to make that will cause me to lose more than 100 units if I were to lose that bet, I will not bet it, instead taking a less than 100 unit loss.

I will post number of spins played, largest bets placed, largest drawdown and anything else that I think is pertinent.

Some days I will not be able to post, but as time permits, I will keep you posted.

I will not be posting a spin by spin chart due to time restraints and because I suck at making those things so the final product is understandable.

I will try to leave other systems alone and stay focused on this project.

We'll see how that goes.

Regards,

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Twisteruk on Sep 26, 04:19 PM 2010
Ok George, look forward to your results !


Shame you had to give up on Atlantis's System.......but it will always be there  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Blood Angel on Sep 26, 04:22 PM 2010
Go George Go   8)
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: A3on on Sep 26, 05:18 PM 2010
Some guys are playing this system with rx
Can someone provide me the code for it?
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 26, 05:56 PM 2010
Quote from: Twisteruk on Sep 26, 04:19 PM 2010
Ok George, look forward to your results !


Shame you had to give up on Atlantis's System.......but it will always be there  :thumbsup:

TK,

I haven't actually given up on Atlantis' system.  I think that it's coming around and may be an excellent one to put in your bag.

I'ts always nice to have multiple systems to play in case 1 isn't doing so well.

I will definitely keep up with your posts.

I hadn't been able to contribute much recently anyway.

You guys were moving too fast for this old brain.

Good Luck,

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 26, 06:08 PM 2010
One additional factor is if I get toward the end of a days spins, I will stop on a re-set point and continue that game from the next days spins if I haven't reached +25 or -100.

I also forgot to mention that I will re-set anytime I reach a new high point.

Taking a break in the middle of a game should have minimal effect on the system's performance.

G.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: A3on on Sep 26, 06:15 PM 2010
I was making now my first test of this system, and how lucky I was ....

-108 units in 18 spins
:'(
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: albertojonas on Sep 26, 07:39 PM 2010
to stiff
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 26, 08:29 PM 2010
Quote from: A3on on Sep 26, 06:15 PM 2010
I was making now my first test of this system, and how lucky I was ....

-108 units in 18 spins
:'(

A3on, 

Should be nothing but blue skies for quite a while after that start. 

I just finished my first game.

Weisbaden,  26.09.2010  Table 2

+25 units

94 spins

low point 547/600

largest bet 13

longest number of consecutive spins in minus, 43 spins

New bankroll balance 625 units.

George

Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 03:29 AM 2010
Quote from: A3on on Sep 26, 06:15 PM 2010
I was making now my first test of this system, and how lucky I was ....

-108 units in 18 spins
:'(

In 18 spins ?????
Incredible.
In 15 conseq.double chops--rr-bb-rr-bb-rr-bb-rr-b--the method loses 104
units,and that happens occasionally.Don't give up A3on,test some more
and you shall recover very soon.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 03:41 AM 2010




I'ts always nice to have multiple systems to play in case 1 isn't doing so well.







Good Luck,

George
[/quote]
Exactly like that George.Last night I started with RvR,won 8 units,
did a smoke/coffe break,continued playing differ. method,won 6 units.....and so on
alternating 4 diff. methods with same approach,smoke/coffe....and at the end
32 un. in plus.Mind you one should feel when to enter and end the game,and
this you can only do by following the behaviour of the wheel completely.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Twisteruk on Sep 27, 03:51 AM 2010
Quote from: GLC on Sep 26, 05:56 PM 2010
TK,

I haven't actually given up on Atlantis' system.  I think that it's coming around and may be an excellent one to put in your bag.

I'ts always nice to have multiple systems to play in case 1 isn't doing so well.

I will definitely keep up with your posts.

I hadn't been able to contribute much recently anyway.

You guys were moving too fast for this old brain.

Good Luck,

George

Ok mate, thats good to hear. Keep lookin as I will post each day a set of results, assuming no acts of god !

I dont want to say much more as dont want to take this off topic


GL over here guys, wish you well  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: A3on on Sep 27, 07:07 AM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 03:29 AM 2010
In 18 spins ?????
Incredible.
In 15 conseq.double chops--rr-bb-rr-bb-rr-bb-rr-b--the method loses 104
units,and that happens occasionally.Don't give up A3on,test some more
and you shall recover very soon.

I'm not the kind of guys who give up with some bad sessions :)

I was just astonished with my bad luck  :P
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 07:41 AM 2010
And skip the zero.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Colbster on Sep 27, 11:49 AM 2010
I had a dream last night that I was playing your method and using a Reverse Labouchere progression, with a -1U for Black being the same as a +1U for Red.   I can definitively state that that was a very bad dream, and nobody should attempt such nonsense!  I love this system for steady BR growth, as I am just starting with real money and don't have much yet in my wallet.   Been testing it so far, and am about to go live with the strategy.   Thanks!
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 11:58 AM 2010
Quote from: Colbster on Sep 27, 11:49 AM 2010
I had a dream last night that I was playing your method and using a Reverse Labouchere progression, with a -1U for Black being the same as a +1U for Red.   I can definitively state that that was a very bad dream, and nobody should attempt such nonsense!  I love this system for steady BR growth, as I am just starting with real money and don't have much yet in my wallet.   Been testing it so far, and am about to go live with the strategy.   Thanks!


Good luck mate,
I'm playing it almost every night,kind a short sessions,mixing
it with some other methods.When you reach 20+.....either
call the day or have a break/30 spins at least./
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Colbster on Sep 27, 12:44 PM 2010
I just had an amazing recovery from a serious drawdown.   Had I lost the spin in question, I would have been down 112 units.   It hit in my favor, and I crawled back to a +14 before starting a new game.   Awesome!

One question, as I might be mis-understanding your rules.   If we lose 100 units every 4 games, but only seek 20 units when we win the other 3, isn't that a net loser? Thought we needed to win 100 units, ending +200 on average every 4 sessions.   Can you please clarify for me?  Thanks for the great system!
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 01:08 PM 2010
Quote from: Colbster on Sep 27, 12:44 PM 2010
I just had an amazing recovery from a serious drawdown.   Had I lost the spin in question, I would have been down 112 units.   It hit in my favor, and I crawled back to a +14 before starting a new game.   Awesome!

One question, as I might be mis-understanding your rules.   If we lose 100 units every 4 games, but only seek 20 units when we win the other 3, isn't that a net loser? Thought we needed to win 100 units, ending +200 on average every 4 sessions.   Can you please clarify for me?  Thanks for the great system!
Good question,

20 units in each short session of night session......3-5 short sessions.
And meant 1 of 4 sessions lose....night sessions.
Try to play/fun session/of about 350 spins continueously without stop W/L and
you can then come to some real conclusions.Skip the zero,as this is for en prison rules.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Colbster on Sep 27, 01:14 PM 2010
Thanks for the clarification  :thumbsup: Everything I have seen so far (About 800 spins so far) are encouraging.   Nice break up for the system I posted earlier that is still trending up.   Nice work!
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Carsch on Sep 27, 01:51 PM 2010
 F_LAT_INO, i did some tests with this systems and was getting great results. However (this must be just me), i can't figure out how you'd go placing your bets when playing it for real using the 3 bet decisions.

Do you mind going over the procedure with a few examples?

Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 02:13 PM 2010
Quote from: Carsch on Sep 27, 01:51 PM 2010
F_LAT_INO, I did some tests with this systems and was getting great results. However (this must be just me), I can't figure out how you'd go placing your bets when playing it for real using the 3 bet decisions.

Do you mind going over the procedure with a few examples?


Exactly like this,Carsch,

I have a casino --spreadsheet card--with 12 columns.
col.1        col.2        col.3         col.4         col.5
spins        LD           OLD          PENULT.    

24
36
12              1+           1-              1-            1-
3                1+           2-              2+            0-
15              1-            3+             1-            1+.....END OF THE GAME--RESTART
12              1-            1+             1+           1+...  EOTGR---------------------------------2+
16              1+           1-              1-            1-
14              1+           2-               2+          0-
7                1+           3-              1+           1-
29              1-            4+             1-            1+.....EOTGR---------------------------------3+
3                1-            1+             1+           1+.....EOTGR---------------------------------4+

And so on,as you can notice am not betting diff.but all 3 on en prison table,
as its easier to track for me thisway.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: atlantis on Sep 27, 04:11 PM 2010
Hi F_LAT_INO,

I tried with slight variation - instead of Opposite column I did alternating  CHOP/STREAK column...

spins        LD           CH/ST          PENULT.    

24
36
12              1+          CH1-           1-            1-
3                1+          ST2+          2+           4+ EOG
======================================
15              1-           CH1+         1-             1-
12              2-           ST1-           2+            2-
16              3+          CH2-          1-             2-
14              1+          ST3+          2+            4+ EOG
=======================================
7                1+           CH1-         1+           1+  EOG
=======================================
29              1-            ST1-          1-            3-
3                2-            CH2+        2+           1-


Thanks,

A.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Carsch on Sep 27, 05:03 PM 2010
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Sep 27, 02:13 PM 2010
And so on,as you can notice am not betting diff.but all 3 on en prison table,
as its easier to track for me thisway.


Ok, i see. So, i guess it would be a big disadvantage playing this on an american table.

Thanks, F_LAT
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: albertojonas on Sep 27, 05:35 PM 2010
hi there

my test as if i'm doin it allright

thx

Spielbank Wiesbaden Permanenzen
Tisch:                        9
Datum:               26.09.2010

NR SPUN/ SPIN NR / PENULTIMATE / LAST DECISION / OPPOSITE / NET / PFT            
                        
24   1               
25   2   0   1-   1+      0      
15   3   -1   2+   1-      0      
14   4   -2   1-   2+      -1      
26   5   3-   2+   1-      -3      
17   6   4-   1-   2+      -6      
13   7   5-   2+   1-      -10      
12   8   6-   1-   2+      -15      
24   9   7-   2+   1-      -21      
24   10   8+   1+   2-      -14      
9   11   7-   1-   3+      -19      
5   12   8-   2+   2-      -27      
11   13   9+   1+   3-      -20      
7   14   8+   1+   4-      -15      
31   15   7+   2+   5-      -11      
28   16   6-   1-   6+      -12      
32   17   7-   2+   5-      -22      
3   18   8-   1-   6+      -25      
6   19   9+   2-   5+      -12      
23   20   8+   3-   4+      -3      
18   21   7+   4-   3+      3      3
0   22   1-   1-   1-      -3   new game   
9   23   2-   2-   2+      -5      
35   24   3-   3+   1-      -6      
24   25   4-   2-   2+      -10      
36   26   5-   3+   1-      -13      
   27   6-   2-   2+      -19      
20   28   7+   3-   1+      -14      
28   29   6-   4+   1-      -18      
15   30   7-   3-   2+      -26      
26   31   8+   4-   1+      -21      
31   32   7+   5-   1+      -18      
10   33   6+   6-   1+      -17      
24   34   5-   7+   1-      -16      
30   35   6+   6+   2-      -6      
30   36   5+   5+   3-      1+      4

Cheers


Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 27, 11:39 PM 2010
Okay,

Second game:

-80 units

36 spins

Lagest bet 16

Won 6 units and then a few doublets, then hit 9 losses on doublets, won a few then hit 5 more losses on doublets.

Reached -86 with a 16 unit bet coming up which would have put me over -100 so I didn't make the 16 unit bet.  It would have lost.

I forgot to state another rule:  any units won can't be lost.  My 100 unit stop loss begins from any high point I have reached previously during the game.

Since I had won 6 units before the losing sequence began, I subtract the 6 units won from the 86 units lost for a net -80 units.

These games are to be expected.  At least I didn't lose all 100 units.  That's one up side.

Next game tomorrow.

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 27, 11:57 PM 2010
Quote from: albertojonas on Sep 27, 05:35 PM 2010
Hi there

my test as if i'm doin it allright

thanks

Spielbank Wiesbaden Permanenzen
Tisch:                        9
Datum:               26.09.2010

NR SPUN/ SPIN NR / PENULTIMATE / LAST DECISION / OPPOSITE / NET / PFT            
                        
24   1               
25   2   0   1-   1+      0      
15   3   -1   2+   1-      0      
14   4   -2   1-   2+      -1      
26   5   3-   2+   1-      -3      
17   6   4-   1-   2+      -6      
13   7   5-   2+   1-      -10      
12   8   6-   1-   2+      -15      
24   9   7-   2+   1-      -21      
24   10   8+   1+   2-      -14      
9   11   7-   1-   3+      -19      
5   12   8-   2+   2-      -27      
11   13   9+   1+   3-      -20      
7   14   8+   1+   4-      -15      
31   15   7+   2+   5-      -11      
28   16   6-   1-   6+      -12      
32   17   7-   2+   5-      -22      
3   18   8-   1-   6+      -25      
6   19   9+   2-   5+      -12      
23   20   8+   3-   4+      -3      
18   21   7+   4-   3+      3      3
0   22   1-   1-   1-      -3   new game   
9   23   2-   2-   2+      -5      
35   24   3-   3+   1-      -6      
24   25   4-   2-   2+      -10      
36   26   5-   3+   1-      -13      
   27   6-   2-   2+      -19      
20   28   7+   3-   1+      -14      
28   29   6-   4+   1-      -18      
15   30   7-   3-   2+      -26      
26   31   8+   4-   1+      -21      
31   32   7+   5-   1+      -18      
10   33   6+   6-   1+      -17      
24   34   5-   7+   1-      -16      
30   35   6+   6+   2-      -6      
30   36   5+   5+   3-      1+      4

Cheers

I have one comment.

On spin #22 when the 0 hit you should have only lost 1 unit, not 3 units.

You were betting 1 unit on R = penultimate
You were betting 1 unit on R = Last
You were betting 1 unit on B = Opposite Last

To bet differentially you would subtract the 1 unit on B from the 2 units on R and bet only 1 unit on R and 0 units on B.

If R spins, you still win 1 unit. 
And if B spins, you lose 1 unit.

The same as if you had bet 2 on R and 1 on B.

Each bet should be played this way.

Here, you would have only saved 2 units but if you had been betting 10 units on R=penultimate and 11 units on R=last and 11 units on Black = opposite last, and a zero hits you lose32 units.
Betting differentially, you would have only lost 10 units, the difference between the total amount bet on R and the total amount bet on B.

Everything else looks okay, although, I didn't check to make sure your penultimate, last and opposites were correct.  I assume they are.

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 28, 07:43 AM 2010
Quote from: GLC on Sep 27, 11:39 PM 2010
Okay,

Second game:

-80 units

36 spins

Lagest bet 16

Won 6 units and then a few doublets, then hit 9 losses on doublets, won a few then hit 5 more losses on doublets.

Reached -86 with a 16 unit bet coming up which would have put me over -100 so I didn't make the 16 unit bet.  It would have lost.

I forgot to state another rule:  any units won can't be lost.  My 100 unit stop-loss begins from any high point I have reached previously during the game.

Since I had won 6 units before the losing sequence began, I subtract the 6 units won from the 86 units lost for a net -80 units.

These games are to be expected.  At least I didn't lose all 100 units.  That's one up side.

Next game tomorrow.

George
So we both lost last night George,except that I lost real
money/was in plus overall,28 units/and went for one more try RvR----and got
into play right when the fire started--double chops--zig zag--double chops,and so
for 34 spins and lose of BR 106 un.minus 28 won=78 min.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 28, 07:52 AM 2010
Quote from: atlantis on Sep 27, 04:11 PM 2010
Hi F_LAT_INO,

I tried with slight variation - instead of Opposite column I did alternating  CHOP/STREAK column...

spins        LD           CH/ST          PENULT.    

24
36
12              1+          CH1-           1-            1-
3                1+          ST2+          2+           4+ EOG
======================================
15              1-           CH1+         1-             1-
12              2-           ST1-           2+            2-
16              3+          CH2-          1-             2-
14              1+          ST3+          2+            4+ EOG
=======================================
7                1+           CH1-         1+           1+  EOG
=======================================
29              1-            ST1-          1-            3-
3                2-            CH2+        2+           1-


Thanks,

A.
Forgive my ignorance,but what would be advantage of such a play.
Thanks Atlantis.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: atlantis on Sep 28, 08:11 AM 2010
Hi Flatino,

In the small example it showed a nice profit -  but, of course, overall there may be no appreciable long-term advantage at all! In fact, could be much worse than using "opposite to last number"... (I have no tests to back it up at all)
T'was just an idea that's all - wondered if it might help as a possible tweak. Feel free to reject or discard the idea completely, FLAT

A.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 29, 12:03 AM 2010
Third game:

+25

40 spins

Highest bet 4 units

Lowest point -2

Band stands at 570, down 30 units

600
+25
-80
+25
_____
570

Today was a very easy session.  I continued to play another 60 sessions and got up 44 units then hit a series of chops and got down -48 in that series.  Ran out of numbers before I could see if it would recover or bust. 

Doesn't matter.  I realize that I can't continue after hitting +25 because I will either win 1 unit or lose 1 units on the next bet and if I lose, I will drop below +25 which violates one of my rules.  In order to make another bet, I have to win 2 or more on the last win to go over +25 by 1 or 2 points.  Then I can make another bet.

I may shuffle the rules around a little.  Since I'm the king of this test, I can do whatever I want.

Cheers,

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 29, 02:16 AM 2010
Quote from: atlantis on Sep 28, 08:11 AM 2010
Hi F_LAT_INO,

In the small example it showed a nice profit -  but, of course, overall there may be no appreciable long-term advantage at all! In fact, could be much worse than using "opposite to last number"... (I have no tests to back it up at all)
T'was just an idea that's all - wondered if it might help as a possible tweak. Feel free to reject or discard the idea completely, FLAT

A.

Thanks for explaining Atlantis,
and I never discard or reject other ppl.
ideas,always looking for improvements
and other ideas.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 29, 02:31 AM 2010
Quote from: GLC on Sep 29, 12:03 AM 2010
Third game:

+25

40 spins

Highest bet 4 units

Lowest point -2

Band stands at 570, down 30 units

600
+25
-80
+25
_____
570

Today was a very easy session.  I continued to play another 60 sessions and got up 44 units then hit a series of chops and got down -48 in that series.  Ran out of numbers before I could see if it would recover or bust. 

Doesn't matter.  I realize that I can't continue after hitting +25 because I will either win 1 unit or lose 1 units on the next bet and if I lose, I will drop below +25 which violates one of my rules.  In order to make another bet, I have to win 2 or more on the last win to go over +25 by 1 or 2 points.  Then I can make another bet.

I may shuffle the rules around a little.  Since I'm the king of this test, I can do whatever I want.

Cheers,

George
Same here George--2 tries,2 wins,in 86 spins 22+----
as am also alternating with couple other methods.one of these
column/dozen sector play,with which am most satisfied so far...
as with RvR lost 3 times now and in so far playing it shows about
slight + results,while the other one much more profitable/more often wins/
and only once blow up the BR.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Colbster on Sep 29, 05:59 PM 2010
Just ended a very long "short" session to +20 units as discussed in earlier posts.   Again, recovered from strong drawdowns to end up positive.   Total spins to +20: 84.   I guess that isn't nearly as long as it seemed.   Draining session, as I was constantly betting 10-14 units.   Seemed hard, but good in the end.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Sep 29, 07:52 PM 2010
Quote from: Colbster on Sep 29, 05:59 PM 2010
Just ended a very long "short" session to +20 units as discussed in earlier posts.   Again, recovered from strong drawdowns to end up positive.   Total spins to +20: 84.   I guess that isn't nearly as long as it seemed.   Draining session, as I was constantly betting 10-14 units.   Seemed hard, but good in the end.

Colbster,

Good to see a win.  This is somewhat of a grinding system most of the time.  You can get down for a while, but like you saw, it does recover most of the time.

+20 is not bad.  It's good to have the sessions that you have to fight for since that's more realistic.

G
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Colbster on Sep 29, 08:07 PM 2010
Good advice, oh noble sage! I have experimented a little with doing all 3 EC sets at the same time and found it favorable.  Am I correct in my opinion that while 1 of the 3 might be hitting a rough spot, the other two should be behaving enough to protect against some of the downturns?  When all 3 are hitting, it is awesome.  I haven't had more than 1 of the 3 really turn against me at a time.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Sep 30, 02:52 AM 2010
Quote from: Colbster on Sep 29, 08:07 PM 2010
Good advice, oh noble sage! I have experimented a little with doing all 3 EC sets at the same time and found it favorable.  Am I correct in my opinion that while 1 of the 3 might be hitting a rough spot, the other two should be behaving enough to protect against some of the downturns?  When all 3 are hitting, it is awesome.  I haven't had more than 1 of the 3 really turn against me at a time.
When double chops--RRBBRRBB--prevail trends and single chops
then it could be a hard session.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Colbster on Sep 30, 02:27 PM 2010
41 spins, -107 units.  First loser that didn't recover before stop-loss.  Glad it is out of the way - now back to winning  8)!
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Oct 05, 12:17 AM 2010
Another session:  Table 2 Oct 4, 2010  Weisbaden

Sorry, I had to take the family on a short camping trip, so missed a few days.  I'll try to stay more punctual.  Although, there are a couple of other systems that are pulling pretty hard at my attention.

Anyway, today's session.

126 spins
+34 units.
Highest bet 14 units.
Lowest drawdown -77 units.

I hit +6 when at +23 so had a few units to play for extras.  Was up to +38, but ran out of numbers when at -4 on the last attack.  so, ended at +34.

600
+25
-80
+25
+34
____
+604

Three wins with one loss, but at least I'm back on top.
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: GLC on Oct 09, 01:34 PM 2010
Sorry to have to post this follow-up.

I am discontinuing this challenge due to lack of commitment on my part.

I keep getting side-tracked with other thoughts and posts and not enough time for everything.

I don't have en prison results to test with which I'm sure makes a lot of difference.

I does well on single zero, so should do better on no zero.

FLATINO vouches for it, has tested it extensively, and plays it on a regular basis so I don't expect to accomplish much other than to confirm his findings.

Sorry Twisteruk.  Hope you're not too disappointed.  I know you were looking forward to seeing how things developed.

Cheers,

George
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: Twisteruk on Oct 09, 01:45 PM 2010
George, dont worry it I totally understand


I was the same when Vic asked me to test the Tool


You will be very sidetracked when it goes Live ! Assumin its something that interests you  :)


Thank you for updatin us  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: RANDOM VERSUS RANDOM--WINNING WAYS
Post by: kampfgolem on Apr 20, 03:42 PM 2017
Hi, I started lurking the forums a couple months ago and just stumbled onto this thread. I still don't get how the betting is done. Is it done like this?:

24B
6B     - do I start betting here? If so, is it R 1 [opposite], B 2 [last + penultimate]?
34R   - R won, so: R 0, B3?   Or do I have to bet on R again? (R 1, B3)

Thanks a lot :)