@ amk,
Since this is your baby, would you be kind enough to post the rules here? Thanks.
Seems like no-one is interested in having it coded, can I then assume it's not what it's cracked up to be? :)
I don't want to trawl through the 30+ pages in the code 4 thread to find out what the current way of playing it is, and I don't know what progression is used. Last call for action guys! ;D
I think more or less everything is here:
link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/code-4/msg56246/#msg56246 (link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/code-4/msg56246/#msg56246)
Also JL plays HIT and RUN like this:
You play for TWO consecutive games only then shut it down.
1C2B-CODE 1
3C2A-CODE 2
2B1C--VIRTUAL LINE
3C2A-WIN GAME 1 STEP 1
3C1B-WIN GAME 2 STEP 3
that's the playing frame for a session, it never changes...
John plays 5 sessions like this a day.
I also think he plays his first game at level 2 stakes.
A.
Original rules with 1/1, 3/3, 9/9, 27/27 progression.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
After that it didint recover anymore.
Not sure about Z-Score calculations. Could you verify them Bayes?
Oh Ophis mate, that's not what they wanted to see, you should have rotated them upside down :twisted:
Quote from: superman on Aug 07, 07:56 AM 2011
Oh Ophis mate, that's not what they wanted to see, you should have rotated them upside down :twisted:
:xd:
I don't get it? No-one would play CODE 4 that way!
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Aug 07, 09:16 AM 2011
I don't get it? No-one would play CODE 4 that way!
A.
If you will define "Hit and Run" or "The way someone would play" then I sure can code it. :thumbsup:
...Take 1 Million spins.
Start form Random place and play until when?
Lose progression? (how many times)
You are in Profit? (how much)
Numbers of spins have passed? (how much)
Then go to another Random place. (do it 365 times to indicate year result?)
Will that be enough Hit and Run for you?
QuoteIf you will define "Hit and Run" or "The way someone would play" then I sure can code it
This hit n run thing really is the basis of the eye candy methods, but, they seem to avoid telling WHEN the hit and WHEN they run, although to be fair it was said somewhere 2 wins and you run, but when do you start, they wont answer.
Be careful Ophis, you will get signed up as the 3rd love bird fella.
Oh well, there's none so blind as those that don't want to see.
<post removed... irrelevant>
Quote from: atlantis on Aug 07, 09:16 AM 2011
I don't get it? No-one would play CODE 4 that way!
A.
Atlantis, what way?
Because a graph is continuous doesn't mean that the GAME was played continuously, it just means that the results from each game - even if they were played 'hit and run', - were pooled. I can play the exact way that John plays (2 consecutive games and OUT, or whatever) and record the results in my notebook day after day, week after week, month after month etc. Then after a few years I could put all these results into a graph plotter and get a visual indication of the results. Would you then be justified in protesting that "no-one plays that way!" ??
Hi Bayes,
R U sayin' that the tracker can play exactly as JL does then?
If so, then I will agree that the results can be deemed to have substance.
A.
QuoteR you sayin' that the tracker can play exactly as JL does then?
Nobody can yet until we know the secret formula to TIMING, if you are constantly winning Atlantis then whats your timing like?
Quote from: atlantis on Aug 07, 01:16 PM 2011
Hi Bayes,
R you sayin' that the tracker can play exactly as JL does then?
If so, then I will agree that the results can be deemed to have substance.
A.
Please write down how does it suppose to play it.
Quote from: ophis on Aug 07, 09:28 AM 2011
If you will define "Hit and Run" or "The way someone would play" then I sure can code it. :thumbsup:
...Take 1 Million spins.
Start form Random place and play until when?
Lose progression? (how many times)
You are in Profit? (how much)
Numbers of spins have passed? (how much)
Then go to another Random place. (do it 365 times to indicate year result?)
Will that be enough Hit and Run for you?
Hi Ophis,
Thanks for new tracker, by the way :)
I honestly think AMK and/or JohnLegend should be the ones to provide these parameters for you as it is really amk's creation and and JL has experienced play to good effect over many sessions...
I am now working on an offshoot of code 4 combining JL's SLIDE and MATRIX principles so I feel that the information you require should therefore be best sourced from one of them.
Cheers,
A.
Thanks for new version of MST!
Hi guys,
Just my tuppence worth but I guess if you did just dip randomly into a pool of results rather than run system consecutively then yes, I think the guys would argue that you would get different results. This must be acceptable no? as an example- if you tested a system and had never won more than 10 games consecutively without losing at least one, then you would make the assumption that you will always lose at least 1/10 games playing solidly. If you were to play for only 3 games a session then it would be possible that you may meet that 1/10 losing game a lot less. Yes you could also meet it a lot more or the odds may also be the same, but what you are introducing is possibilities in replacement of definite outcome. To play continuously makes the 1/10 losing game an almost definite reality (it becomes impossible to avoid) To play hit and run reduces it to a possibility (you may never encounter it), if you believe in h and r that is!
I know you maths guys would argue there is no difference but....
Woods
Quote from: Bayes on Aug 06, 03:07 AM 2011
@ amk,
Since this is your baby, would you be kind enough to post the rules here? Thanks.
Hello Bayes,
Sorry that I haven't replied yet. Been busy. I will get the parameters up for CODE 4 by today or tomorrow if that is alright.
QuoteI know you maths guys would argue there is no difference but
The issue is not wether hit n run works or not, it's the methods involved, the argument/discussion is stating that the method has zero to do with the success or lack thereof, the whole play centres around being lucky to avoid a loss as soon as you approach the table/screen, the only reason we simulate over extended periods of time/spins is to see if it will last and not turn up any suprises/losses too often, all these methods fall within the expected norm of hit/loss ratio that is all we are making a point about, the fact that the hype is so OTT needs to be proven as flanel/fluff/hype and in that people can see for themselves it's not the bet selection, JL himself states its all about TIMING but he wont give any further details about the timing of his and one or two others luck as about the same amount of people have had the opposite luck as their timing was out/wrong.
So, to those who you who haven't had the losses yet, hows this timing work then?
Fair play Supe.
Quote from: woods101 on Aug 08, 08:52 AM 2011
Hi guys,
Just my tuppence worth but I guess if you did just dip randomly into a pool of results rather than run system consecutively then yes, I think the guys would argue that you would get different results. This must be acceptable no? as an example- if you tested a system and had never won more than 10 games consecutively without losing at least one, then you would make the assumption that you will always lose at least 1/10 games playing solidly. If you were to play for only 3 games a session then it would be possible that you may meet that 1/10 losing game a lot less. Yes you could also meet it a lot more or the odds may also be the same, but what you are introducing is possibilities in replacement of definite outcome. To play continuously makes the 1/10 losing game an almost definite reality (it becomes impossible to avoid) To play hit and run reduces it to a possibility (you may never encounter it), if you believe in h and r that is!
Woods
I don't buy it. There isn't any reason to suppose that playing continuously means you will encounter more losses, if the total number of PLACED BETS is the same. It may take longer (in terms of TIME) to lose playing hit and run, but that only gives the ILLUSION of not losing so much. If you play a system as JL recommends - say 2 games and OUT, then repeat the next day, then you've placed anywhere between 2 and 8 actual bets. Let's say you place 4 bets per day on average for that system. Someone who plays continuously for a few hours might place 40 bets, which means that he's likely to find the losing sequences about 10 times faster than the hit and run guy.
There is no justification whatsoever for concluding that hit and run gives any advantage. You can prove this for yourself. Get a spin file and start at the beginning, work through it taking out a few spins at random intervals (this represents hit and run). Now take exactly the same number of decisions from the file, but this time as one continuous sequence (from anywhere in the file). You will find that you get the exact same distribution and characteristics as the numbers which were formed from all the little hit and run samples pooled together.
QuoteTo play hit and run reduces it to a possibility (you may never encounter it), if you believe in h and r that is!
Woods, you can't be serious. You're saying that IF YOU BELIEVE in hit and run, then it will work for you? I think you've been reading too much Harry Potter.
What's the difference between Hit 'n' Run and having a win target??
Hi Blood Angel,
As I understand it, hit 'n run means having a SMALL win target. So you make your few units, then get out. That might be a good strategy if you plan to play roulette only once in your lifetime, but if you're going back day after day, it's meaningless.
Suppose you're dropped into the middle of a large circular minefield. You need to get out on foot and have no idea where the mines are buried. Furthermore, whichever direction you take doesn't matter because it's a circle and you're in the middle. Does it make sense to believe that walking a few steps, then taking a break, walking a bit more, then stopping etc will result in a better than average chance of not having your legs blown off than just setting off and keeping going until you get out?
Of course not, it's absurd. But that's the way the hit 'n' run guy thinks. :o
You dont need to be math genius.
IF in continous spins there is more LOSES than WINS....
then its common sense that playing hit and run you WILL encounter more losses than wins.....
and if u dont.... then i suggest playing LOTTO.
Hi Bayes
Im firmly in the "hit and run makes no difference" camp...but whilst I was typing a reply in this thread my earlier question came to me.
Thanks for your reply.
QuoteIF in continous spins there is more LOSES than WINS....
Or enough losses to take back your accumulated winnings.
Quotethen its common sense that playing hit and run you WILL encounter more losses than wins.....
and if u don't.... then i suggest playing LOTTO
So it boils down to luck as has been said by numerous members already but them hit n run guys just don't want to know about it, its timing
Quote from: ophis on Aug 07, 09:28 AM 2011
If you will define "Hit and Run" or "The way someone would play" then I sure can code it. :thumbsup:
...Take 1 Million spins.
Start form Random place and play until when?
Lose progression? (how many times)
You are in Profit? (how much)
Numbers of spins have passed? (how much)
Then go to another Random place. (do it 365 times to indicate year result?)
Will that be enough Hit and Run for you?
-----------------
Ophis, out of curiosity on how the results would look like....
Say one is a full time player, playing 10 hrs a day in a live table with 60 spins an hour. The player is playing 5 sections a day. A Code4 section is usually done in 20spins i.e 2 decisions.
So one would play 20 spins, skip through 120 spins (10/5=a section every 2hrs=120 spins), then play his next section and so forth...
could you simulate the player's results from a live dealer's spin file?
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Aug 09, 10:43 AM 2011
-----------------
Ophis, out of curiosity on how the results would look like....
Say one is a full time player, playing 10 hrs a day in a live table with 60 spins an hour. The player is playing 5 sections a day. A Code4 section is usually done in 20spins i.e 2 decisions.
So one would play 20 spins, skip through 120 spins (10/5=a section every 2hrs=120 spins), then play his next section and so forth...
could you simulate the player's results from a live dealer's spin file?
vundarosa
To clarify...
Use LIVE spins.
1. Play until 2 Decisions
(if we include progression in case of loss.... then it could be as much as 8 bets. Correct?)
2. Skip 120 spins (add any random to it? +/- 0-15 spins randomly will be ok?)
3. GOTO 1
that's all? how many spins you want to be done like that?
Quote from: ophis on Aug 09, 11:51 AM 2011
To clarify...
Use LIVE spins.
1. Play until 2 Decisions
(if we include progression in case of loss.... then it could be as much as 8 bets. Correct?)
2. Skip 120 spins (add any random to it? +/- 0-15 spins randomly will be ok?)
3. GOTO 1
that's all? how many spins you want to be done like that?
-----------------------
2 A 2 C 1 B 3 B 3 C 3 C 3 A 2 A bet here
1/1(win as per example) 3/3 9/9 27/27
1 A 2 A and here 1/1
3/3 (win as per example) 9/9 27/27
3 C 2 B win or lose both decisions/lines, end game: skip 120 spins and start over
vundarosa
Hello Bayes,
Here are the parameters for CODE 4, just as they are stated in the first CODE 4 thread...
Note down the last 12 spins of dozens/columns alternating into 3 groups each 4 wide..
Example: numbers 1,2,3 are dozens, letters A,B,C are columns
2B1C
3C2A
2C3A
......... fourth pattern
Once we have our 3 groups each 4 wide we are betting that the fourth pattern will be different from the first... In this case we are betting on dozens 1/3 then columns A/C then dozens 2/3 then columns A/B Playing progression is 1/1, 3/3, 9/9, 27/27
JohnLegend plays two games back to back:
2B1C
3C2A
2C3A
........ play against 2B1C
........ play against 3C2A
If it doesn't cost you much time you could test both, the single game and back to back game....
There is a third option as well and this covers the zero. Ofcourse far more units involved but just for testing sake would be interesting. JohnLegend lost his first game due to a zero.........
It is to be played HIT AND RUN and with this I mean play a game then play another game with a minimum of 20+ spins between games. Ideally it would be great to have say 200 spins between games but I don't know how you would do this with your limited live wheel spin data.......
Let me know what you think...........
If anybody else has any thoughts it would be appreciated as well...........
Hi Bayes, Ophis, Superman,
Total respect to your knowledge on this broad subject. Without stepping of piste re: topic thread, given your awareness of the game and that of it's players, what is your opinion then of the widely held believe by most successful players, that it is better to spend as little time as possible in a casino as the longer you play, the more you risk a loss? This is a stance held by most who claim their wins are in the majority. Do you acknowledge any truth regarding this or are all these people living an illusion based on the fact that they're lucky, and they play less/place less bets? I presume the latter holds true for all three of you. Would this be the case?
Thanks
Woods
my understanding would be that those successful players would come to the table with a reactionary way of playing - seeing what is happening & then choosing their method of play to correspond to what they are seeing, rather than approaching the table with a mechanical bet that they are going to play already decided & no matter what..
so in that respect the aim is to take advantage of short-term results & therefore play for a shorter time, but it could not be termed that they are just playing 1 method 'hit and run' in the sense i think it is being used sometimes here..
i might be wrong though ??? (not putting myself in that successful player category :) )
QuoteDo you acknowledge any truth regarding this or are all these people living an illusion based on the fact that they're lucky
My opinion is yes and no, those players will get losses during the time at the table and if over a month or two you strung their play/s in a long line you would see the win/loss ratio would be the same as if they had played all day for 1 day only.
The big argument here is when A member states he plays to miss the losses with his timing, what tosh, said player has no way of knowing WHEN those losses will arrive, we can only take his word for his winnings, he was challenged at some point months ago to play when someone else could watch him, he failed to do that, why?
Quotebut it could not be termed that they are just playing 1 method 'hit and run' in the sense i think it is being used sometimes here
Exactly, that sums up the discussion on the other threads
Quote from: amk on Aug 09, 03:19 PM 2011
Here are the parameters for CODE 4, just as they are stated in the first CODE 4 thread...
Thanks amk. One way to simulate the hit 'n' run would be to use spins from wiesbaden, maybe a separate day for each session, just as you would if playing for real.
Anyway, I'm away for about a week so won't get around to coding it until after 20th Aug.
Alright Bayes.........
Sounds good. Just use live spin data from many different days and jump back and forth between them all.........
Quote from: ophis on Aug 09, 11:51 AM 2011
To clarify...
Use LIVE spins.
1. Play until 2 Decisions
(if we include progression in case of loss.... then it could be as much as 8 bets. Correct?)
2. Skip 120 spins (add any random to it? +/- 0-15 spins randomly will be ok?)
3. GOTO 1
that's all? how many spins you want to be done like that?
---------------------
Ophis / Bayes,
Are you still testing this one?!
vundarosa
I haven't forgotten about this vunderosa, but I have a question for John first.
@ John,
When testing systems, I assume you don't play live but use recorded spins. If so, where do you get the spins and how do you simulate the Hit & Run strategy?
Quote from: Bayes on Sep 04, 05:59 AM 2011
I haven't forgotten about this vunderosa, but I have a question for John first.
@ John,
When testing systems, I assume you don't play live but use recorded spins. If so, where do you get the spins and how do you simulate the Hit & Run strategy?
----------------
not sure John is following this thread....
vundarosa
I am here to Bayes...........
JohnLegend should be here shortly, he loves roulette just as much as you do......... :)
Everyone here knows that probability of number 5 in roulette is 1/37 at any given moment, yes? So what's the point of hit and run actually? Just a simple question.
Hi userpairs,
There isn't any point at all to hit and run. JL claims it works and that he gets far better results than playing "continuously", whatever that means (since you're always playing "continuously" whether you keep sessions short or not).
I would like to test JL's systems on his terms, but so far he hasn't shown much interest in telling me what they are...
There might not be Bayes................
However, when someone tells me they have a strikerate of 1001 to 1 for a method I pay close attention..............
Quote from: Bayes on Sep 07, 03:08 AM 2011
Hi userpairs,
There isn't any point at all to hit and run. JL claims it works and that he gets far better results than playing "continuously", whatever that means (since you're always playing "continuously" whether you keep sessions short or not).
I would like to test JL's systems on his terms, but so far he hasn't shown much interest in telling me what they are...
---------------
Bayes, you could, for now, look at the terms i posted to Ophis in this thread and run a test with them. From reading Johns posts I believe they are close enough to how JL plays
vundarosa
Quote from: ophis on Aug 07, 07:52 AM 2011
Original rules with 1/1, 3/3, 9/9, 27/27 progression.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
After that it didint recover anymore.
Not sure about Z-Score calculations. Could you verify them Bayes?
This looks alot like the stock market graphs ,they take a while to recover also nothing is forever winning and nothing is forever loseing, so make the best with what happens today win or lose, 1600000 spins in a real casino, we hope the states does not take that long to get out of the hole .
@ John,
When testing systems, I assume you don't play live but use recorded spins. If so, where do you get the spins and how do you simulate the Hit & Run strategy?
code..4 is a nice way to go