Hello all,
This system is based on the theory that certain even chances will sleep for a while then catch up.
The first thing we will do is chart 16 spins. We will chart the spins as L/H O/E R/B. Example: 4 (LEB)
That is all we need to write down on a note card.
When we are done with that, we will look at all the possible pairings. There are 12 of them:
H R
H B
H O
H E
L R
L B
L O
L E
R O
R E
B O
B E
We will count how many times the even chances pair up in these 16 spins. Here is a real life example:
H R - 5
H B - 5
H O - 4
H E - 6
L R - 0
L B - 6
L O - 2
L E - 4
R O - 2
R E - 3
B O - 4
B E - 7
Looking at the lowest amounts, we can deduce that the 3 even chances we will bet are Low, Red, and Odd
We start the betting and stop the tracking. (unless you want to)
* We start with 1 unit on each and +1 on all 3 after a NET loss. -1 after a NET win.
* You will reset when balance reaches a new high point or EVEN
* Anytime you lose all 3, you raise +2 after every NET loss hereafter.
* Aim for about 15 - 25 units profit. Stop and retrack
* Don't bet for too many spins. No more than 30-40 spins. Stop and retrack.
* A session bankroll should be 150 units in case things get hairy
On each nonzero spin there are 3 winning even-chance pairs. (Example: 7 RO - LO - RL) So on 16 nonzero spins there are a total of 48 profitable even-chance pairs. There are 12 different possible pairings on any spin.
So in a perfect world, each of the 12 combination's would hit 4 times each. When we track our spins and see combination's with 0, 1, 2, we are behind the normal rate. We should expect a higher rate during the next 20-30 spins.
We are covering 3 of these combination's at once, and for all 3 combination's to continue to stay behind is a rarity (in my opinion). You couple that with a progression, we might just a have a winning system here.
I just finished a real life example. Sorry, I did not record the actual numbers during my tracking, but I do have the finished pairings after 16 nonzero spins:
H R - 2
H B - 3
H O - 3
H E - 2
L R - 7
L B - 4
L O - 6
L E - 5
R O - 7
R E - 2
B O - 2
B E - 5
I played High, Red, Even
I won 25 units easily. I should have stopped at 20. I wanted to push it to 25, and then I had some struggle. In the end, I got there. It was amazing how many times ALL 3 hit at the same time.
KEEL
hello keel, thanks for this.
what about a progression for betting the actual numbers in the categories?
ie high red even = 30,32, 34,36.
obviously we're limiting the opportunities, but you're qualifying them in your tracking.
would be interesting to see how this plays out.
cheers.
On those numbers you just mentioned. They all hit in that particular test run. All within 25 spins.
I have not considered this, but you could be right. Only time will tell.
KEEL
thanks.. I will test it out when I got some time :)
Thanks for the idea man.
Interesting system.
Deserves more tests for sure.
I like the EC'S :)
As always, we have to determine a realistic target win (not to greedy)
and a clear stop loss.
Cheers.
Jordan69
Quote from: ewarwoowar on Aug 07, 04:31 AM 2010
Hello keel, thanks for this.
what about a progression for betting the actual numbers in the categories?
ie high red even = 30,32, 34,36.
obviously we're limiting the opportunities, but you're qualifying them in your tracking.
would be interesting to see how this plays out.
cheers.
O.K. I have tried 2 test runs using this idea. It works great. I hit many times when betting the 4 to 5 numbers straight up. Flat bets. I stopped at +67 one time and +109 another time. They both would have been profitable my original way as well.
I know it is very early in the testing phase. It seems to be a winner of a system.
KEEL
ok, i've just run through quick tests using live spins.
some of the number groups have 4 numbers, some have 5, so different progression needed.
session 1:
number group HRE
spins: 6
profit: 12 units
session 2:
number group HBO
spins: 13
profit 16 units
session 3:
number group HBO
spins: 9
profit 28 units
session 4:
number group LRE
spins: 1
profit 32 units
session 5:
number group HRE
spins: 2
profit 28 units
far too early, but enough promise to warrant a further look :thumbsup:
Great job. Great results. I take it you tracked the numbers correctly. 16 spins? Does not have to be exactly 16.
I wouldn't chase too long for a hit. Better to accept a smaller loss and move on. You don't have to stop after first hit neither.
Have you tried my original method?
KEEL
no, i haven't tried your original method :-[
it was just something that struck me as i read your post.
in testing, i was surprised how quickly the numbers came in. i know it's early days.
i tracked for 16 spins, except for the one time i tracked for 17 because a zero came in.
cheers.
another 5 test sessions, same selection criteria as above.
session 1:
number group LBE
spins 1
profit 31 units
session 2:
number group: LBO
spins 5
profit 16 units
session 3:
number group: LRO
spins 3
profit 21 units
session 4:
number group: HBE
spins 7
profit 32 units
session 5:
number group: HBO
spins 9
profit 28 units
Good method guys Keel and Ewarwoowar. Keep testing. :thumbsup:
Try this hibrid ,too.
Same way like Ewarwoowar, wait 12-16 spins,but bet 6 numbers.
R1 B1 R2 B2 R3 B3
1 2 14 13 25 26
3 4 16 15 27 28
5 6 18 17 30 29
7 8 19 20 32 31
9 10 21 22 34 33
12 11 23 24 36 35
Kattila,
When you say "Anytime you lose all 3, you raise +2 after every NET loss hereafter" do you mean to raise +2 on the very next spin or do you mean to raise +2 on all of the spins that have a net loss until the next reset?
Also on your sample in reply #2 you had 4 combinations that had 2 spins each. In this instance you left out the "B" since you can't bet R & B at the same time. How do you decide which one to leave out?
Thanks,
Dennis
Dennis you have to ask Keel44, is not my system.
Cheers.
Quote from: dennisbelle on Aug 07, 11:49 AM 2010
Kattila,
When you say "Anytime you lose all 3, you raise +2 after every NET loss hereafter" do you mean to raise +2 on the very next spin or do you mean to raise +2 on all of the spins that have a net loss until the next reset?
Also on your sample in reply #2 you had 4 combinations that had 2 spins each. In this instance you left out the "B" since you can't bet R & B at the same time. How do you decide which one to leave out?
Thanks,
Dennis
Yes you DO raise the stakes +2 immediately after the -3 loss and every NET loss thereafter
You must look at all the combination's to see which 3 even chances are going to be the best to bet on. Sometimes there will be a tie between 2 opposing even chances. You can either just pick 1 or leave that even chance out all together.
KEEL
Yes you DO raise the stakes +2 immediately after the -3 loss and every NET loss thereafter
You must look at all the combination's to see which 3 even chances are going to be the best to bet on. Sometimes there will be a tie between 2 opposing even chances. You can either just pick 1 or leave that even chance out all together.
Thanks Keel (Not Kattila:))
5 more sessions, taken randomly from live consecutive spins i've recorded at dublinbet.
session 1:
number group LBE
spins 1
profit 31 units
session 2:
number group HBE
spins 3
profit 21 units
session 3:
number group HRO
spins 1
profit 31 units
session 4:
number group LRE
spins 7 *here i took a test sample of 20 spins. at 16, the results were pretty equal*
profit 8 units
session 5:
number group HBO
spins 9
profit 28 units
Quote from: ewarwoowar on Aug 07, 02:07 PM 2010
5 more sessions, taken randomly from live consecutive spins i've recorded at dublinbet.
session 1:
number group LBE
spins 1
profit 31 units
session 2:
number group HBE
spins 3
profit 21 units
session 3:
number group HRO
spins 1
profit 31 units
session 4:
number group LRE
spins 7 *here I took a test sample of 20 spins. at 16, the results were pretty equal*
profit 8 units
session 5:
number group HBO
spins 9
profit 28 units
I like it EWAR,
This is easy to test and it looks promising.
11 more sessions: Tweaked it after the 1st session to only tracking for 13 spins that way I can't have a tie so I always bet either 4 or 5 numbers. We could track longer if we thought it would make a difference.
1 Session:
Betting on LO because R/B tied
9 numbers bet each spin
Hit on 4th spin
Won 27 units
20 spins total counting tracking
2 Session:
Bet HER
4 numbers
Hit 14th spin
+20
27 spins total (Began tracking for only 13 spins here)
3 Session
Bet LOR
5 #s
5th spin
+11
18 spins total
4 Session
Bet HOB
4 #s
4th spin
+20
17 spins total
5 Session
LER
4 #s
5th spin
+16
18 spins total
6 Session
HOR
5 #s
2nd spin
+26
15 spins total
7 Session
LEB
5 #s
11th spin
+18
24 spins total
8 Session
HOR
4 #s
13th spin
+32
26 spins total
9 Session
HEB
5 #s
2nd spin
+26
15 spins total
10 Session
LEB
5 #s
14th spin (this is my highest drawdown -155 units before hit )
+25
27 spins total
11 Session
LOR
5 #s
7th spin
+32
20 spins total
+233 units in 227 total spins including tracking. That's over 1 unit win per spin and almost 3 units won per bet placed. I have arbitrairily selected a stop-loss of 500 units. So far I haven't even gotten close. We all know there will be losses which will bring the units won per spin down considerably.
I'll keep posting and we'll see what happens.
EWAR, should we start a new topic so as not to muddy up Keel's topic?
George
GLC and/or ewarwoowar
What progression are you using while betting the numbers?
Dennis
Quote from: dennisbelle on Aug 07, 04:11 PM 2010
GLC and/or ewarwoowar
What progression are you using while betting the numbers?
Dennis
Dennis,
14 more sessions. All winners. Plus 273 units in 273 spins including tracking spins. That puts me over my 500 unit stop loss in 25 games. I can list each session as above if anyone finds that interesting enough for analysis or something. I can tell you that I had 2 hits on the 14th bet and 1 on the 15 bet. Most are around the 4th or 5th bet.
The progressions I use are:
For 4 numbers: 4 units (1 unit per number) 8 times, 8 units 4 xs, 12 units 3xs, 16 units 2xs, 20 units 2xs, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48 & 56 units all 1x. 27 Bets. -480 units if you lose all 27 bets. Win on a hit from 4 to 32 units.
For 5 numbers: 5 units per number 6 times, 10 units 3 xs, 15 units 2xs, 20 units 2xs, 25,30,35,40,45,50,60 & 70 units 1x. 21 bets. -485 if you lose all 21 bets. Win on a hit from 6 to 34 units.
Of course you can continue the progression further if you want to use a larger stop loss. It's just a martingale type system for 4 or 5 numbers.
Cheers,
George
Quote from: jordan69 link=topic=770. msg7016#msg7016 date=1281173133
Thanks for the idea man.
Interesting system.
Deserves more tests for sure.
I like the EC'S :)
As always, we have to determine a realistic target win (not to greedy)
and a clear stop-loss.
Cheers.
Jordan69
Keel,
About your initial system, do u have some more good tests to
share with us ? It seems interesting with straight numbers but i would like
to know for EC's :)
I will begin my own tests asap.
Thanks !
Jordan69
I like the fact that we are having good results with straight up numbers. The whole point of this system is to catch the trend going in our favor.
I would suggest going for more than one hit. Maybe we should flat bet the 4 or 5 numbers or maybe a slight progression. I would say that my original idea can produce the same profitability as betting on straight up numbers if your only gonna go for 1 hit.
I have tested my original idea with my original rules only about 5 times. I won about 20 units each time. Then I quit. All sessions were very easy. My biggest amount I was down was about 20 units.
There could be a way to play both the straight up numbers and the 3 even chances at the same time. There are countless ways to use this EXCELLENT bet selection.
All the best to everyone....KEEL ;D
Here I have an example of a real life scorecard I used:
H R - 5
H B - 5
H O - 4
H E - 6
L R - 2
L B - 4
L O - 1
L E - 5
R O - 2
R E - 5
B O - 3
B E - 6
These are the first 16 tracked spins. I will now play Low, Red, Odd
Here are the next 16 spins plotted out:
H R - 5
H B - 3
H O - 5
H E - 3
L R - 5 +3 gain
L B - 3
L O - 2 +1 gain
L E - 6
R O - 5 +3 gain
R E - 5
B O - 2
B E - 4
This just shows the improvement from below average rate to average rate. I can tell you that this session will produce a profit, but you might need more spins to win any substantial amount.
Quote from: keel44 on Aug 07, 05:54 PM 2010
I like the fact that we are having good results with straight up numbers. The whole point of this system is to catch the trend going in our favor.
I would suggest going for more than one hit. Maybe we should flat bet the 4 or 5 numbers or maybe a slight progression. I would say that my original idea can produce the same profitability as betting on straight up numbers if your only gonna go for 1 hit.
I have tested my original idea with my original rules only about 5 times. I won about 20 units each time. Then I quit. All sessions were very easy. My biggest amount I was down was about 20 units.
There could be a way to play both the straight up numbers and the 3 even chances at the same time. There are countless ways to use this EXCELLENT bet selection.
All the best to everyone....KEEL ;D
Keel,
The fact that this selection process prduces good results with both straight up numbers and also on the ECs is good. Even though the straight up numbers are easy to test, I'm less likely to play it than the more conservative EC method. I prefer the ECs because where I play, I can only bet from 1-25 for a $1 unit. I can play from $0.25 to $25 which is a 100 unit spread on the straight up numbers. I will now start to test the original method and see how I like it.
Thanks for this excellent system. We worked with Atlantis for a while on a similar system, but it was only on a single EC and it never resulted in a strategy that didn't have some devestating down turns. Hopefully this method of play will overcome the downswings. We'll see.
Regards,
George
hi guys, sorry been busy all evening.
the progression ive been using is:-
4 numbers - 11111112222233344556
5 numbers - 1111112223334556781011
although ive never had to go anywhere near the top end in my limited testing.
Rats,
I knew it had to happen. I played another set of games and had a lost progression, -485 units. That gives me the following standing. Won 769 units, lost 485 units for a plus of 289 units. Better than losing, but not so much for the amount of time invested for the win.
I went back and played all my session with a flat bet and ended up at +50 units. Flat betting may be a better bet in the long haul because you don't have to contend with the large progression. Or, betting on the ECs with Keel's bet method. I tested betting on the ECs and did well until I hit a losing streak. Was down -169 before started recovering. Ran out of numbers and so ended the test at -116.
Let's keep testing. It could still be a winner.
George
Oh I know it is still a winner. Finding which way to bet with this selection is really key. Here are some options that best fit the main theory of this strategy.
1.) Flat bet the 4 or 5 key numbers for 20 spins. Up or down -- track 16 spins again or use the spins you were betting on. Set a win target and loss target for the session.
2.) Track 16 spins. Play all 3 even-chances for 16 spins. Flat Bet except when you lose all 3, then raise stakes +1 on each. Stay there until new profit. Chart the 16 spins your betting on, and start a new game right where you left off for another 16 spins. Also have a win/loss target.
3.) Play the exact way on my first post.
4.) Use 4 or 5 number progression. Stop and re track after first hit.
I am sure there are more ways. Just remember to not bet the same numbers for too long. You should re track after 20-30 spins of betting.
** I have tried strategy number 2 for a couple of times and I won 10 units each time. Pretty much a flat bet. I only raise when I lose all 3.
I have never seen an occasion where the pairings that were behind not make an improvement for the next 20-30 spins. And you don't even need a drastic improvement because you are covering 3 of them at the same time.
hi keel, for my part, i'll continue to test, using a 4 or 5 number progression for 20 spins.
that will be my stop loss.
as george said earlier up the thread, would you prefer it if this information went on a different thread, so this thread was kept for your method?
cheers.
Hi Guys.
I've been following this thread and looks like you have a nice system going on here.
Here is a link for a handy little progression tool. Maybe it will be of some use.
link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/prog.html (link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/prog.html)
:thumbsup:
Quote from: ewarwoowar on Aug 08, 05:21 AM 2010
Hi keel, for my part, i'll continue to test, using a 4 or 5 number progression for 20 spins.
that will be my stop-loss.
as george said earlier up the thread, would you prefer it if this information went on a different thread, so this thread was kept for your method?
cheers.
I think you should definitely keep it here on this thread only if you want to. I will take a backseat now and I will test on my own and keep you guys up to date.
Keel
Quote from: furple on Aug 08, 07:14 AM 2010
Hi Guys.
I've been following this thread and looks like you have a nice system going on here.
Here is a link for a handy little progression tool. Maybe it will be of some use.
link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/prog.html (link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/prog.html)
:thumbsup:
Furple,
Thanks for the progression tool. It surely does save time figuring it manually.
G.
I'm going to start testing this as well.
Furple, nice link. Thanks !!
10 more sessions tested, results not as good :-\
same criteria as above. tests done using my recorded live spins from dublinbet.
session 1:
number group LBO
spins 2
profit 28 units
session 2:
number group LBE
spins 1
profit 31 units
session 3:
number group LBO
spins 20 *lost progression*
profit -200 units
session 4:
number group LBE
spins 20 *lost progression*
profit -385 units
session 5:
number group LRO
spins 4
profit 16 units
session 6:
number group LRE
spins 12
profit 4 units
session 7:
number group HBE
spins 2
profit 26 units
session 8:
number group LBO
spins 3
profit 21 units
session 9:
number group LRE
spins 13
profit 28 units
session 10:
number group LRE
spins 20 *lost progression*
profit -200 units.
as george said, it had to happen!
Okay, so we can see that betting straight-up with a progression is a little too risky. That doesn't mean nothing will work. Some of Keel's suggestions may be the tweak we need. Let's not give up too soon.
G
totally agreed george, there's a lot of merit in the thinking behind the system.
a tweak or two should help, i'm sure.
cheers.