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Roulette-focused => Main Roulette Board => Topic started by: The_Force on Aug 12, 11:46 AM 2010

Title: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: The_Force on Aug 12, 11:46 AM 2010
This is a system I developed many years ago and still use today as one of my main money earners.    Very simple to learn and easy to play.    No big risks or massive banks needed.   

The system:

In this system, you will bet on an EC - up to you which one.    I usually bet on Red, but the choice is yours.   

You will bet on your chosen EC using the 1-3-2-4 progression.    You start by betting one unit.   

If you win, you move to 3 units.   

If you win, move to 2 units.   

If you win, move to 4 units.   

If at any stage of the progression you lose, you ALWAYS return to the first stage of the progression i.   e.    1 unit in this case.   

Now, say you play and you make it to 4 units and win.    You have completed a cycle.    Now, you move to step two in the ladder.   

2 - 6 - 4 - 8

You repeat the process - your aim being to make it to make it through the cycle.   

Now say you are at step two of the ladder and you lose.    You start again from 2 units.   

At each step of the ladder, you have 3 attempts to complete a cycle.    If you try three times and you don't manage to complete a cycle, you must drop back down one step.    So if you are at step 2 (betting 2-6-4-8) and you lose three times, you return to 1-3-2-4.    If you win on step 2 of the ladder, you move to step 3 (3-9-6-12) and keep going until you reach your profit target (always set yourself a profit target and stick to it).   

You stop playing when you reach your profit target or you are at step 1 of the ladder and lose three times.    When this happens, you accept the loss.   Of course, if you are at step 1 and you lose 3 times, you can keep playing at level 1 until you hit your stop loss (always have a stop loss).
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: VLS on Aug 12, 12:07 PM 2010
Thanks for sharing with us TF.

Quoteone of my main money earners.

Sweet!

Congrats! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Twisteruk on Aug 12, 12:14 PM 2010
Thanks for sharin dude !

Can you say why you go down to 2 units on step 3 of the ladder ?

Also do you bet one after another, ie your looking for FOUR Reds in a row ?

Cheers  :)
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: The_Force on Aug 12, 12:21 PM 2010
Step 1 = 1-3-2-4
Step 2 = 2-6-4-8
Step 3 = 3-9-6-12
Step 4 = 4-12-8-16

I think you get the idea.  Normally, you should hit your profit target before you have to go further than step 4.  That acts as some kind of indication of what kind of profit target you have set and if it's realistic.  This is one of those slow earners, but with small risk.

You are correct - you are looking for runs of your EC.  So 4 in a row completes a cycle.  Then you move on up the ladder.  What you'll find is that you will win and lose and kind of hover around awhile not making any head way.  The beauty of this system is that when the opposite EC is hitting, you will not lose huge amounts, but when you EC starts to hit, that's when you can hit your target.  Essentially, you are waiting for a run of your EC to trend, then you capitilise on it. 
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Twisteruk on Aug 12, 12:33 PM 2010
Ok thanks for that  :)

But can you explain why you drop down to 2 units on step 3 of the 1st ladder ? I jw

Will give it a go with some Funn Chipsss  ;D !

Just one other question, what your stop loss. Say for example Black Streaks for 15-20 spins ?
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: The_Force on Aug 12, 01:54 PM 2010
Just to clarify, the 1-3-2-4 progression is nothing new.  If you do a google search, you will find many pages on it.  It's always been known as the most steady, low risk progression.

The ladder element is what I added.  It was to maximise profits on the streaks, without hurting you too bad when it's going against you.

Btw, if you have access to a no zero table, this system really shines. 
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: buffalowizard on Aug 12, 02:01 PM 2010
Hi Twister,

As you can see, on each of the stages, the progression goes down on the third step. This is what makes it lower risk and a more steady earner.
Remember you are not going up on a loss, so instead of greatly inflated 'up as you win' strategies such as martingale, you will not lose all your winnings if you encounter a single loss.

A quick scenario: martingale up as you win 1,2,4  If you lose on third level, you are -1
                           Using this strategy 1,3,2 if you lose on third level then you are +2

Hope this helps
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Hermes on Aug 12, 02:13 PM 2010
It's called regression progression used by John Patrick at BJ and craps. It is a good one.
Hermes
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Twisteruk on Aug 12, 02:32 PM 2010
Ah thanx Guys  :) Appreciate the Info !
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Anima-t3d on Aug 12, 03:01 PM 2010
I tried the 1-3-2-4 system (without the ladder) on about 2 million no zero spins database, but it was about pretty much break even. Perhaps the ladder part makes it actually worth it. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Jordan on Aug 12, 03:21 PM 2010
Thank you for the system.
This is the spirit that I like in a Roulette forum... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Nathan Detroit on Aug 12, 06:45 PM 2010
The  FIRST bet should  always be higher than the  seond bet.  John Patrick`s  up and pull and regression method :

2-1-2-3-3-5-1 .  If your bet selection is  so good  just go for  IT with 2  units  right at the beginning .

Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: GLC on Aug 12, 10:08 PM 2010
Quote from: Nathan Detroit on Aug 12, 06:45 PM 2010
The  FIRST bet should  always be higher than the  seond bet.  John Patrick`s  up and pull and regression method :

2-1-2-3-3-5-1 .  If your bet selection is  so good  just go for  IT with 2  units  right at the beginning .

Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!


ND,


Maybe with a different bet selection your progression would be excellent.  The Force isn't using a bet selection that may beat the odds.  This one obviously doesn't.  I guess he's saying that the betting stages makes this a long term winner, at least for him.  It'll be interesting if it does because so far I haven't seen a betting system that could turn betting on a single e.c. into a winner.  We'll see what happens.

LOL,  George

Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: The_Force on Aug 13, 02:17 AM 2010
Quote from: Anima-t3d link=topic=841. msg7638#msg7638 date=1281639693
I tried the 1-3-2-4 system (without the ladder) on about 2 million no zero spins database, but it was about pretty much break even.  Perhaps the ladder part makes it actually worth it.  :thumbsup:

Yeah, that's pretty interesting because I found the same to be true.  Could you tell me how you managed to test the 1-3-2-4 progression on 2 million spins? I'm guessing you didn't do it manually (as that would probably take forever).

Could you use the same method to test the 1-3-2-4 Ladder system? I have had success with it for many years, but like any system, I could just be lucky.  Testing it over 2 million spins would be conclusive, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: sekuritati on Aug 13, 02:23 AM 2010
interesting method.   I like it.   I am all about grinding systems and I am happy that you are such a player too

Got few questions
1.  how much is the proper session bankroll that you use?
2.  what is your profit target?
3.  what is your stop-loss?

any more advice you could give us and share more experience with this method as I am seriously considering making it one of my main players
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Anima-t3d on Aug 13, 08:51 AM 2010
Quote from: The_Force on Aug 13, 02:17 AM 2010
Yeah, that's pretty interesting because I found the same to be true.  Could you tell me how you managed to test the 1-3-2-4 progression on 2 million spins? I'm guessing you didn't do it manually (as that would probably take forever).

Could you use the same method to test the 1-3-2-4 Ladder system? I have had success with it for many years, but like any system, I could just be lucky.  Testing it over 2 million spins would be conclusive, in my opinion. 
To test it I used the SuperRoulette bot's "batch run" feature, it has a few systems in it one of which is a progressions template... however ladders aren't supported. So what I could do is go back to step one on a loss and go to the next step on profit, but it doesn't support having like 3 attempts at each stage/ladder, without doing it for all steps.

The results are not so great -$32,58 betting $0,01 on 3ec's... unless I haven't done something entirely correct...  :-X

See attachment for my spins database (includes spins from random.org and the random mersene twister, no zeros, no real play)

Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Anima-t3d on Aug 13, 10:02 AM 2010
Just to clarify, the previous post was tested without the 3 attempts on each stage/ladder. Therefor actually using the 3 attempts might be the deciding factor in making wins.

I cannot test it as it should with SuperRoulette, but if there ever comes a tool for roulette testing online, I'd include the system so you can test it as it should. No guarantees though. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Hermes on Aug 13, 08:03 PM 2010
You cannot test roulette without zero! False results. The test must be with zero so natural as it is at real game. Those tests are artificial, no value.
Hermes
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Anima-t3d on Aug 14, 06:31 AM 2010
Quote from: Hermes on Aug 13, 08:03 PM 2010
You cannot test roulette without zero! False results. The test must be with zero so natural as it is at real game. Those tests are artificial, no value.
Hermes
Well if you bet even chances, you have most luck with a no zero table. If it doesn't work on a no zero, it surely wouldn't work on a single/double zero. :-\
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Hermes on Aug 15, 11:56 AM 2010
I would say opposite. If it works on US double zero roulette it works even on Mars.
Only French roulette has half zero. RNG without zero is the same as roulette with 5 zeros.
US double zero roulette has another 3 zeros hidden in it, didn't you felt it yet?
Hermes
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Anima-t3d on Aug 15, 04:57 PM 2010
Quote from: Hermes on Aug 15, 11:56 AM 2010

US double zero roulette has another 3 zeros hidden in it, didn't you felt it yet?
Hermes
How do you mean? ???
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: VLS on Aug 15, 05:03 PM 2010
Quote from: Anima-t3d on Aug 15, 04:57 PM 2010
How do you mean? ???

I believe Anima still needs to get to get used to the "roulette humor" around here :D

QuoteRNG without zero is the same as roulette with 5 zeros.

I.e. for some it goes like: RNG = rigged. Or perhaps because the calculations on the long-term "even game" includes back and forth movements of 100% winnings between the house and the player. They skew the calculations by substracting 10% of your winnings at a time, so the game is not theoretically even anymore.


Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: F_LAT_INO on Aug 15, 05:25 PM 2010
Quote from: Hermes on Aug 15, 11:56 AM 2010
I would say opposite. If it works on US double zero roulette it works even on Mars.
Only French roulette has half zero. RNG without zero is the same as roulette with 5 zeros.
US double zero roulette has another 3 zeros hidden in it, didn't you felt it yet?
Hermes
Hermes,
on EC EN PRISON rules,whicm am playing,no zero affects the game.
Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: The_Force on Aug 16, 07:41 AM 2010
Wow, that's not a good looking graph Anima.  But as you said, you haven't incorporated the full system so it's not entirely representative of this system.

However, from 1 million spins to about 2. 5 million spins, the graph is pretty much going up.  Seeing as I play this live, I doubt I am anywhere near a million spins.  So it maybe that i'm currently riding this upward trend. 

Again though, until the whole system is tested, it's hard to say really.  Also, did you set a stop loss and profit target when you ran the numbers through? This is quite important and I don't think running the numbers through without these parameters is accurate. 

I usually play this with only 100 unit bank and 10 unit profit, and I play with a stop loss of half my bank.  I play with $5 units, so that is $500 bank and $50 profit. 

There is a very easy way to win money off an online casino if play can be automated (I dunno if super roulette can do this, but from the website it sounds like it might be possible).  Basically, you monitor the EC distribution until you get a massive bias towards one side (so black).  Then you use the 1-3-2-4 progression (even without the ladder) to bet on the opposite side (so red).  This of course cannot be done in real life as you would have to sit there forever, but if it was automated, you let the computer wait until you see a major bias, then you play the opposite side.  You could actually use any progression for this and it would work, but the 1-3-2-4 progression is steady and safe. 

Title: Re: The 1-3-2-4 Ladder System
Post by: Anima-t3d on Aug 16, 11:38 AM 2010
Quote from: The_Force on Aug 16, 07:41 AM 2010
Wow, that's not a good looking graph Anima.  But as you said, you haven't incorporated the full system so it's not entirely representative of this system.

However, from 1 million spins to about 2. 5 million spins, the graph is pretty much going up.  Seeing as I play this live, I doubt I am anywhere near a million spins.  So it maybe that i'm currently riding this upward trend. 

Again though, until the whole system is tested, it's hard to say really.  Also, did you set a stop loss and profit target when you ran the numbers through? This is quite important and I don't think running the numbers through without these parameters is accurate. 

I usually play this with only 100 unit bank and 10 unit profit, and I play with a stop loss of half my bank.  I play with $5 units, so that is $500 bank and $50 profit. 

There is a very easy way to win money off an online casino if play can be automated (I dunno if super roulette can do this, but from the website it sounds like it might be possible).  Basically, you monitor the EC distribution until you get a massive bias towards one side (so black).  Then you use the 1-3-2-4 progression (even without the ladder) to bet on the opposite side (so red).  This of course cannot be done in real life as you would have to sit there forever, but if it was automated, you let the computer wait until you see a major bias, then you play the opposite side.  You could actually use any progression for this and it would work, but the 1-3-2-4 progression is steady and safe. 


I didn't set a stoploss or take profit, this way it takes all the numbers (like how it would be when you stop and you play a new session). Otherwise you might "simulate" only favorable spins. It only had end of file count. So when the file was finished it "resets" bets and start from step 1 in the progression.

With SR you can have standard deviation based system (the AI system is what it's called), which you can configure, but now it only uses a -1 unit on a win and a +1 betting unit when losing. It's quite profitable, only when it goes near table limits or alot losing in the beginning is when it doesn't end in a profit. But on my demo account on BV, no zero. I went up from 1k to 2.4k in less than a month, betting 0.01 only. At BV I get about 450 spins/hour. Playing the AI took about 10hours a day. In the forum of SR I posted my optimized settings for the AI + config file which brings in about twice as much.

Soon version 2.5 will be out. :thumbsup: