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Roulette-focused => Main Roulette Board => Topic started by: keel44 on May 23, 11:03 AM 2012

Title: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 11:03 AM 2012
Hello to all.  I am sure some variations have been done before, but I am really curious as to how this will turn out.  I would like to propose this system based on the following theory:

MAIN THEORY

When dealing with the even chance bets, we know that flat betting won't work.  We are covering less than half of the numbers and you only get paid 1 to 1.  The fact is flat betting does work -- sometimes. 

If you take 100 nonzero spins, it would be quite rare for there to be exactly 50 reds and 50 blacks.  One of the colors would be higher than the other - almost every single time.  So, if you were to bet exclusively on the color that finished higher, you would profit flat betting. 

Of course, you don't know which of the 2 colors would finish higher.  You would just guess.  And you would be right about half the time.  And you would be wrong about half the time.  So still again, flat betting wouldn't work.  This may seem very obvious, but please bare with me.

What would need to happen is for you to profit more on the times you guessed the correct color, and to lose less on the times you guessed the wrong color for the 100 spins.  But you don't know if you have guessed right or wrong until almost the very end of the session.  So we need a way to identify, while we are playing, if we are on the winning color or the losing color for your session.  That way we can lower our bets if we are on a losing stretch, or we can raise our bets if we are on a winning stretch. 


I have developed this master plan:


You take the win/loss results of the previous 5 bets and you will determine your next bet amount

0 wins 5 losses = bet 1 unit
1 win 4 losses = bet 1 unit
2 wins 3 losses = bet 2 units
3 wins 2 losses = bet 2 units
4 wins 1 loss = bet 3 units
5 wins 0 losses = bet 3 units

** You do NOT wait for 5 more results -- you bet every spin**

When you are on a losing trend, you lose less.  When you are on a winning trend, you win more.  If there is no real trend, it is a wash.

Keep in mind, it is a win/loss trend we are talking about.  So any bet selection for any even chance at any time will work.  I say just choose a color.  It makes no difference.  That means zeros are a loss.


Wrap-up:

Remember my main idea.  If you just guess a color for a fixed amount of time for a typical session, you could guess correctly and win flat betting.  You could also guess wrong and lose flat betting.  If you use my strategy, you should win MORE on winning sessions and lose LESS on losing sessions. This will result in a profit.  Decide your own bankroll.  I say have a 40 unit bankroll. 
This is a bit of a grinder.






Please ask questions
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: StackBundles on May 23, 11:18 AM 2012
ok so what about using this


0 wins 5 losses = bet 1 unit[/size]1 win 4 losses = bet 1 unit2 wins 3 losses = bet 2 units3 wins 2 losses = bet 2 units4 wins 1 loss = bet 3 units5 wins 0 losses = bet 3 units


but betting opposite time before last?
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: StackBundles on May 23, 11:24 AM 2012
sorry i ment time before last then only doubles are our problem
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 11:49 AM 2012
Remember this is a WIN/LOSS results chart.  You can use whatever bet selection you like just make sure you note W/L.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 11:52 AM 2012
If somebody wants to give me string of numbers of say 25 spins.  I can show the operation of my system in action. 

It really is a breeze.  Just make sure you understand the theory.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: StackBundles on May 23, 11:58 AM 2012

40 spins for you

RBRBR
BRBRB
BRRBB
RRBBR
RRRRR
RBBBR
RBRBR
RRBBR

Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: atlantis on May 23, 12:02 PM 2012
Quick 100 spin session:
Result = +1 (there were 3 zeros)
Highest bank = +11 (very good)
Cheers for interesting Ec approach!

Yes - kept a w/l register always showing last five outcomes and bet accordingly. Nice when the 3pt bets win :)
A.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: TwoCatSam on May 23, 12:23 PM 2012
So let me get this perfectly straight..........

You are Constantly looking back five spins to see what happened?

I do not understand the vertical columns. 

0 wins 5 losses = bet 1 unit
1 win 4 losses = bet 1 unit
2 wins 3 losses = bet 2 units
3 wins 2 losses = bet 2 units
4 wins 1 loss = bet 3 units
5 wins 0 losses = bet 3 units

Do you first pick a color and stick with it?  Say red......

I have  R R R R R in my last five.  So I bet R at 3u and I get black
I have R R R R B in my last five...still 3uI have R R R B B in my last five...now I bet 2u on red??

Is the blue part correct?


Sam

This will not post corectly
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Robeenhuut on May 23, 12:28 PM 2012
It did not ROCK my boat.... ;D
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: atlantis on May 23, 12:31 PM 2012
Second test 100 spins;
Result = -33.5
Highest bank = +16 (very good)
I guess the idea/lesson is to stop when you're in front by a few units. Take the profit and go.
I was betting R each time but B kept spoiling things during the endgame up to 100 spins. :)
What's your advice, keel?
A.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 12:35 PM 2012
Quote from: StackBundles on May 23, 11:58 AM 2012
40 spins for you

RBRBR
BRBRB
BRRBB
RRBBR
RRRRR
RBBBR
RBRBR
RRBBR

Let me write them vertically and I will show betting on red only.  I will keep a running total

R (no bets here first 5)
B
R
B
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2
B - (2 R / 3 B) bet 2  L(-2)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(0)
B - (3 B / 2 R) bet 2  L(-2)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(0)
B - (3 B / 2 R) bet 2  L(-2)
B - (3 B / 2 R) bet 2  L(-4)
R - (3 B / 2 R) bet 2  W(-2)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(0)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(+2)
B - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  L(0)
B - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  L(-2)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(0)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(+2)
B - (3 B / 2 R) bet 2  L(0)
B - (3 B / 2 R) bet 2  L(-2)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(0)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(+2)
R - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  W(+4)
R - (4 R / 1 B) bet 3  W(+6)
R - (5 R / 0 B) bet 3  W(+9)
R - (5 R / 0 B) bet 3  W(+12)
R - (5 R / 0 B) bet 3  W(+15)
B - (4 R / 1 B) bet 3  L(+12)
B - (3 R / 2 B) bet 2  L(+9)
B - (2 R / 3 B) bet 2  L(+7)
R - (2 R / 3 B) END  W(+9)

Total Results 25 --- 14 Wins/11 Losses +9(red only)

(black only) -- 11 Wins/14 Losses -7
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 12:37 PM 2012
Quote from: TwoCatSam on May 23, 12:23 PM 2012
So let me get this perfectly straight..........

You are Constantly looking back five spins to see what happened?

I do not understand the vertical columns. 

0 wins 5 losses = bet 1 unit
1 win 4 losses = bet 1 unit
2 wins 3 losses = bet 2 units
3 wins 2 losses = bet 2 units
4 wins 1 loss = bet 3 units
5 wins 0 losses = bet 3 units

Do you first pick a color and stick with it?  Say red......

I have  R R R R R in my last five.  So I bet R at 3u and I get black
I have R R R R B in my last five...still 3uI have R R R B B in my last five...now I bet 2u on red??

Is the blue part correct?


Sam

This will not post corectly



Yes correct.  You do not have to stick with RED.  It is based on W/L.  I would stick with the same bet selection.  I hope to catch a trend.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 12:42 PM 2012
Quote from: atlantis on May 23, 12:31 PM 2012
Second test 100 spins;
Result = -33.5
Highest bank = +16 (very good)
I guess the idea/lesson is to stop when you're in front by a few units. Take the profit and go.
I was betting R each time but B kept spoiling things during the endgame up to 100 spins. :)
What's your advice, keel?
A.


-33.5 units is a lot.  I wonder if you were playing it correctly.  I have played a few sessions on my own, I was never down more than 20 units and it did recover beautifully.  It took me 150 spins altogether.  How could you do 2 sessions of 100 so fast?

I would say yes you should leave when you are ahead.  When I think long term, it never matters when you leave.  What goes around comes around.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 12:53 PM 2012
The only thing that will hurt this is when a trend just gets going and then totally stops.  Over and over and over. 

Eventually, you will get a trend either positively or negatively.  When you get one positively -- you win more.  When you get one negatively -- you lose less

Think of this session possibilty:
Think of 45 wins @ 2.6 units on average and 55 losses @ 1.8 units on average

45 x 2.6 = 117
55 x 1.8 = 99

+18 profit


I use those numbers just as a way to think of this method --- winning more and losing less
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 01:05 PM 2012
Quote from: atlantis on May 23, 12:31 PM 2012
Second test 100 spins;
Result = -33.5
Highest bank = +16 (very good)
I guess the idea/lesson is to stop when you're in front by a few units. Take the profit and go.
I was betting R each time but B kept spoiling things during the endgame up to 100 spins. :)
What's your advice, keel?
A.

If you were betting correctly...........
Just remember, you could have been on the opposite side as well---and you will be at some point.  You must add all of your sessions together.  I am curious what result you would have gotten if you were betting all black
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: StackBundles on May 23, 01:07 PM 2012
can someone try this with the bet selection as being the time before last so if its
RBR next bet would be B then next bet would be R
i havent got the time at the min else i would. remember using that bet selection the only problems we have is the RRBBRRBBRRBB pattern......... this might give us better results instead of just going for 1 colour
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Maan on May 23, 01:21 PM 2012
This has nothing to do with Reading random..

/M
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: TwoCatSam on May 23, 01:58 PM 2012
OK,  I can testify......

We used Super Roulette to look for the best of last five and bet it with an up one when you loose and down one when you win.  It was a terrible loser.

Now, this is a new idea--varying the bet in accordance with the flow.

I wish Super Roulette was still around.  This would be fun to test.

Sam
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 03:31 PM 2012
Quote from: TwoCatSam on May 23, 01:58 PM 2012
OK,  I can testify......

We used Super Roulette to look for the best of last five and bet it with an up one when you lose and down one when you win.  It was a terrible loser.

Now, this is a new idea--varying the bet in accordance with the flow.

I wish Super Roulette was still around.  This would be fun to test.

Sam

You do mean varying the bet amount?  Using my exact wager amounts---yes?


I know this will not win every session, but maybe more money can be made than not.  This really comes down to losing trends versus winning trends.  Because of the zeros, this is not a 50/50 game.  So there will be a little more losing trends than winning trends, but we will win more on winning trends and lose less on losing trends.

Consider this:

10 losses in a row starting at level 2 for the 1st 3 losses; then 7 more losses at level 1.  That is a grand total of -13 units

8 wins in a row starting at level 2 for the 1st 3 wins; then 5 more wins at level 3.  That is a grand total of +21 units

******actually 9 wins in row is more accurately compared******

Also consider everything else in level 2 betting could be close to a wash.



:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: TwoCatSam on May 23, 03:47 PM 2012
Keel

We did not use your system.  The program looked at the last five and bet the leader.  Up one on a loss and down one on a win.  We're playing Bet Voyager so there is no zero.

Had we been playing your system, we would have gone up when the wins started coming instead of going down.

I think your idea has far more merit than the code systems.

WE KNOW ONE THING ABOUT THE ROULETTE WHEEL FOR A FACT:

It always has and always will produce runs and chops of varying lengths.That may be all we know for certain.Sam
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: TwoCatSam on May 23, 03:47 PM 2012
double post


edit:  something is wrong
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: malcop on May 23, 05:47 PM 2012
Hi Keel44,


Love your progression idea it's a sort of positive/negative progression based of your bet selection Win/Loss string.


I played a quick session of Baccarat, using your bet progression and Simple Trend Catcher, only played 39 hands ended the session +8 after hitting +8 for the second time.


One thing at the start of my session I had LWW so I started to play two units as if I had got two out of five wins.


I will try it out when I play some roulette later.


Thanks for sharing  :)


malcop
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: albertojonas on May 23, 06:59 PM 2012
Quote from: malcop on May 23, 05:47 PM 2012
Hi Keel44,
Love your progression idea it's a sort of positive/negative progression based of your bet selection Win/Loss string.
I played a quick session of Baccarat, using your bet progression and Simple Trend Catcher, only played 39 hands ended the session +8 after hitting +8 for the second time.
One thing at the start of my session I had LWW so I started to play two units as if I had got two out of five wins.
I will try it out when I play some roulette later.
Thanks for sharing  :)
malcop
HI Malcop,


Nice to see you play baccarat =)


I couldn't resist to play your shoe. See what you can do with this LW registry
[attachimg=1]


Could you apply the progression here?

Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: malcop on May 23, 07:24 PM 2012
Hi albertojonas,


I ran though the progression with the win loss string you gave me, it ended +7 with high of +12 twice.


Whats your Bet selection?


Thanks


malcop
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Skakus on May 23, 07:42 PM 2012
Quote from: keel44 on May 23, 12:53 PM 2012
The only thing that will hurt this is when a trend just gets going and then totally stops.  Over and over and over. 

You could get a nasty surprise at just how common that scenario might be.


Nice idea keel44. However, it’s all very well to keep rowing your boat around and around, but sometimes the most fish are caught when you drop anchor!


So perhaps this idea might help:

Start your session with anchors away and play a default 2 unit bet for 5 spins.

Now pull up anchor and row your boat to the end of the last 5 spin Lw registry.

Now drop anchor again and bet for the next 5 spins however many units the last 5 spin Lw registry dictates.

Now pull up anchor and row your boat to the end of the last 5 spin Lw registry.

Now drop anchor again and bet for the next 5 spins however many units the last 5 spin Lw registry dictates.

So on and so forth, each time betting the same progression amount for 5 spins.

This might cause other problems, but at least you won’t miss out on those short lived trends that you have built up using lesser chips only to see them vanish when you put the big chips down.


Give it a test and see what happens.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Dutchy on May 23, 08:10 PM 2012
Hi Keel44,
              I like the thinking put behind this one,it's different and if it's a grinder so be it.As long as it improves the bottom like.Good job. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 23, 10:38 PM 2012
Quote from: Skakus on May 23, 07:42 PM 2012

You could get a nasty surprise at just how common that scenario might be.


Nice idea keel44. However, it’s all very well to keep rowing your boat around and around, but sometimes the most fish are caught when you drop anchor!


So perhaps this idea might help:

Start your session with anchors away and play a default 2 unit bet for 5 spins.

Now pull up anchor and row your boat to the end of the last 5 spin Lw registry.

Now drop anchor again and bet for the next 5 spins however many units the last 5 spin Lw registry dictates.

Now pull up anchor and row your boat to the end of the last 5 spin Lw registry.

Now drop anchor again and bet for the next 5 spins however many units the last 5 spin Lw registry dictates.

So on and so forth, each time betting the same progression amount for 5 spins.

This might cause other problems, but at least you won’t miss out on those short lived trends that you have built up using lesser chips only to see them vanish when you put the big chips down.


Give it a test and see what happens.

Already built into my strategy is the proper flow from high to low bet amounts.  Longer trends is what we really need to deal with here.  I am hoping about 90% of the all the bets will be at level 2.  I hope this proves to be sort of a wash.  We should make our money with the longer trends.

I will always fool around with ideas, however.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Nickmsi on May 24, 12:26 AM 2012
Hi Keel . . .

Here's a tool that will help you with testing out this idea.  You can quickly check many scenarios.

Simply press F9 to get a new set of 100 spins(RNG) and see the results.

It appears that this would work best with a Stop Loss and Profit Target.  It could also work very well
with a Hit and Run type approach.

Keep the ideas coming . . .

Enjoy

Nick
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: TwoCatSam on May 24, 12:42 AM 2012
Nick

Nice program.  If I could write programs like that, well, I'd write programs like that!!

Sam
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 24, 12:53 AM 2012
Quote from: Nickmsi on May 24, 12:26 AM 2012
Hi Keel . . .

Here's a tool that will help you with testing out this idea.  You can quickly check many scenarios.

Simply press F9 to get a new set of 100 spins(RNG) and see the results.

It appears that this would work best with a stop-loss and Profit Target.  It could also work very well
with a Hit and Run type approach.

Keep the ideas coming . . .

Enjoy

Nick

Thank you sir.  This is why I post on here ----  the blossoming of ideas and tools
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Robeenhuut on May 24, 01:09 AM 2012
Flat bet any EC 4 9 spins. Bet selection is up 2 you. I always follow last decision.  If in profit reset. If in loss repeat adjusting your bet size.
For example 6W and 3L so you are down 3u so you bet 3u.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: StackBundles on May 24, 06:27 AM 2012








Not bad i tried with my bet selection and got these results finished with +


  WWLWWWWWWLWWWLLWWWLWWLWWWWLLLLWWWWWWL





Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: warrior on May 24, 08:07 AM 2012
Quote from: Robeenhuut on May 24, 01:09 AM 2012
Flat bet any EC 4 9 spins. Bet selection is up 2 you. I always follow last decision.  If in profit reset. If in loss repeat adjusting your bet size.
For example 6W and 3L so you are down 3u so you bet 3u.
If you have 6w and 3L would you not be up 3 units?
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: beretta28 on May 24, 08:20 AM 2012
And what about a first 8 to 1 and a second 7 to 2?
A disaster!Apart from starting from 0,01 $!
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Robeenhuut on May 24, 10:33 AM 2012
Quote from: warrior on May 24, 08:07 AM 2012
If you have 6w and 3L would you not be up 3 units?

Hehe Warrior

But of course. 2 much posting i guess my fearless friend  8)
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: keel44 on May 24, 11:26 AM 2012
On the spreadsheet that was posted earlier, I must have pressed F9 100 times to see what kind of results you would get. 

It was worse than I expected, however it was close if you add all the sessions together.  Also the maximum you were up was almost always in the positive at some point.  I wonder if you kept playing continuously for longer than 100 spins, if that would make a difference.  All in all, I am still happy with it.
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: Nickmsi on May 24, 01:07 PM 2012
Keel . .  .

attached spreadsheet for 380 spins so you can see if any difference.

Nick
Title: Re: Row Your Boat system
Post by: intrinseco on May 24, 08:08 PM 2012
I did some tests but will be better if someone double check ...

the code wait for the 5 first colors and then play consecutive