If you play at B & M Casino's in the US, you may find you'll like this method.
Only for Double (00) Zero Wheels (apologies to my European friends) and only for real wheels.
Hope you find success with it. All the rules are in the spreadsheet with examples.
Good luck.
Gator
p.s. Thanks to GLC for working on various progressions. Although I went back to more of my original play in the end, I greatly appreciate your support, George.
Thanks Mr. Gator and also to George for throwing his progressions around.
Wally
I really like it and I thank you. I'll try this at Riverwind on Thursday.
Question: In column "B" you have "A" and "0". What does this represent?
Sam
Thanks Sam, I wish you the best with it.
As for the "A" and "0", they are just arbitrary. The "A" means a hit and the "0" means a miss.
It's a simple bet, but very powerful (only B&M real wheels, please).
Can it be run into the ground and make it lose? It's not happened to me, but I'm sure it can be. Common sense must prevail.
Best, WG
By golly, Wally, I like it!
They say gaming is coming to the states via Vegas and Atlantic City either this winter or early sprint of 13. This could be just what we American's need to combat the 00 wheel--which is what it will be, I'm sure.
I got the puppy figured out in jig time.
Thanks a ton..
Samster
(Geez, why can't everyone write instructions like this man?)
OK, Mr G, I'm going to break your first rule. (Or was it second?) Anyway, the wife and I love to go to Riverwind to play roulette. It is 00, RNG. I know you said for real wheels only, but we have no choice if we want to play.
They have Roulette Evolution and it is fair. We can play for .25 per quad. Don't know about the zero pocket, but I'm sure it's the same.
Win, lose or draw I'll report back.
Sam
Quote from: Wally Gator on Oct 09, 06:11 PM 2012
p.s. Thanks to GLC for working on various progressions. Although I went back to more of my original play in the end, I greatly appreciate your support, George.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
WG, I do think that we should mention that betting series of 10 bets works pretty well also. Just bet 1 unit for 10 spins. If you reach a new profit, reset. If you reach the end of your spins and you're minus, move to the next level. Bet 2 units for 10 spins with the same rules. If reach new profit, reset. If reach the end of your spins and are still in the hole, move to next level.
You can either stay at each new level until you reach a new profit and then reset all the way back to 1 or you can play D'Alembert style and move up and down 1 level at a time until you reach a new profit.
Suggested progression is: 1-2-3-4-5-7-9-11-13-16-19-22-25
If you are playing D'Alembert style, progression is just 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 etc...
Since we win 5 or 8 and only lose 4, we can reach a new high with less wins than losses even with a flat bet.
Unfortunately, this method can be much more of a grind than Wally's progression.
Wally, If you want to keep the topic clean with only 1 bet progression, please feel free to delete this post.
GLC
P.S. I love the name! :thumbsup:
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 09, 11:28 PM 2012
OK, Mr G, I'm going to break your first rule. (Or was it second?) Anyway, the wife and I love to go to Riverwind to play roulette. It is 00, RNG. I know you said for real wheels only, but we have no choice if we want to play.
They have Roulette Evolution and it is fair. We can play for .25 per quad. Don't know about the zero pocket, but I'm sure it's the same.
Win, lose or draw I'll report back.
Sam
Good luck with it, Sam. I don't believe you'll have the same results as RNG does not afford you the benefit of the wheel sector this takes advantage of. So, you may lose the streaks. My recommendation is that you use George's suggested progression if you are playing RNG. But, for $0.25 a spin, hey, have some fun. I'll be interested to hear of your result.
Quote from: GLC on Oct 10, 01:01 AM 2012
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
WG, I do think that we should mention that betting series of 10 bets works pretty well also. Just bet 1 unit for 10 spins. If you reach a new profit, reset. If you reach the end of your spins and you're minus, move to the next level. Bet 2 units for 10 spins with the same rules. If reach new profit, reset. If reach the end of your spins and are still in the hole, move to next level.
You can either stay at each new level until you reach a new profit and then reset all the way back to 1 or you can play D'Alembert style and move up and down 1 level at a time until you reach a new profit.
Suggested progression is: 1-2-3-4-5-7-9-11-13-16-19-22-25
If you are playing D'Alembert style, progression is just 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 etc...
Since we win 5 or 8 and only lose 4, we can reach a new high with less wins than losses even with a flat bet.
Unfortunately, this method can be much more of a grind than Wally's progression.
Wally, If you want to keep the topic clean with only 1 bet progression, please feel free to delete this post.
GLC
P.S. I love the name! :thumbsup:
GLC,
No doubt the progression and method of play you've listed is effective. Sometimes slow, but effective. It's probably important to note that your suggestion is a continuous method of play, which for some, is required to remain at a table.
Thanks for adding to the topic.
WG
Wally
On a personal belief note...........For years I have watched both real and RNGs produce numbers. I have seen the RNG hit sectors just like the dealer supposedly does. Until I see concrete evidence--and it may not exist--I will not believe in the "dealer throwing sectors" theory.
I found your system quite easy to understand, but I do have one question: Why the seven spin window? Especially--as in the example--when you win your first spin. Why not just start a new seven with the next spin?
You mention that with GLC's progression you could bet constantly. What is the difference between yours and his?
George, I'd love to read your take on this, too.
Sam
Sam,
While I've had some of the same beliefs you have, my experiences over many years have proven to me that there is a difference in playing a real wheel. Believe me, if I had the same results playing RNG, I'd be doing that. I simply don't get the same results and there have been times years ago when I had disastrous results. This is just me and my experience. I'm glad it's been different for you and where you play.
As for the method of play. There is no reason why you can't change it up. It's completely up to you. I put forth the method the way that I've had tremendous success. I've played it many different ways. And, as we both know, there will be people who will drive this strategy into the ground, not watching everything going on during their play, and claim it stinks. And, so be it. I'm glad to contribute something that has done well for me over the years. I hope others find success with it.
Hope I answered your questions.
Wally
I respect your opinions and am happy to hear you've been playing it for years.
Yesterday, at Dublin, I saw the 8 hit twice in a row, the 30 hit once. I saw the 17 and numbers around it hit about seven out of ten times. When a dealer is spinning cw and ccw, how could this phenomena happen?
And I've seen the exact same thing on RNG.
I'll get back to you.
Sam
Thanks for sharing Wally.
I like it at 1st glance. I will study it a little more
before taking it to a B & M. to make sure I understand
when to increase and decrease.
Your results are impressive. I really like the way
you show it all on a Excel SS !!
hi wally,
I tried to open your attached file. and this is what I got (see picture). ???
normally planmaker viewer software displays xlsx files. somehow it can't handle this one.
so could you please use another format to post your system? this would be great. :)
thanks and cheers
hans
What format would you suggest? Do you mean in an earlier version of Excel?
Sam, I did test this on BV double zero since I don't have any spins from a live double zero wheel.
I did a variety of tests of different even chance bet progressions since this is very close to an even chance bet. Hitting the zero pocket is pretty important. The one session where I went the deepest in the hole was because I didn't hit the zero pocket for over 40 spins.
Parlays are for sure a no no because of the decreased chance of a series of wins. We have to remember that we have 15 winning numbers and 23 losing numbers so any progression that relies on back to back wins is at a definite disadvantage.
I tried playing it using a Gr8player type progression where I stayed at each level until I reached a new profit or won 5 times then I moved to the next level and stayed there until I won 5 times.
There's nothing sacred about 5 wins, you could use 3 or 10 or if you want to really slow it down to just a step above a flat bet, you could use 20 or more wins before moving to the next level.
You'll be surprised how often you can ride out a losing steak until a cluster of wins comes along and pulls us out fo the hole. Of course you must be prepared for a long session every now and then.
That's about all I can add to the topic. Wally's the real expert on this one. With the most games played and won. Having never lost is pretty encouraging.
My final comment is, "remember, we have 23 numbers that can hurt us and 15 that help us." That means there's a losing session out there. Be prepared for it just in case you're the lucky one to get hit with it.
GLC
Wally, I am going thru the SS spin by spin so that I can memorize the rules.
(4) Increase by 1 unit if a series has lost 5 or more spins.
Lines 21 thru 27 show 5 losses "0"
Should line # 28 be a bet for 2 units?
As well as line 29 be a 2 unit bet and a win on the Single Zero for $18
Thanks, just trying to make sure I get it right.
George
Thanks for that.
I am seriously considering looking into Bet Phoenix. I hear they have a 00 real wheel and will let Americans play. I know a guy who plays there and they pay him.
If I throw $100 at this, I'll certainly post the results.
For this test, I would pay it precisely and exactly as Wally spelled it out. Doesn't make sense, but then neither does Voodoo!! >:D
Sam
Quote from: VegasArick on Oct 11, 10:31 PM 2012
Wally, I am going thru the SS spin by spin so that I can memorize the rules.
(4) Increase by 1 unit if a series has lost 5 or more spins.
Lines 21 thru 27 show 5 losses "0"
Should line # 28 be a bet for 2 units?
As well as line 29 be a 2 unit bet and a win on the Single Zero for $18
Thanks, just trying to make sure I get it right.
Sorry, I missed this post. The answer is no. It's 1 unit because Rule 3 tells you to stop if you are +1 for that series of 7. So the remaining rules don't kick in. If you hit on spin 1 or 2 of the series of 7 you are at +1 or more, so you stop and wait for the next series to begin. If you have to play all 7 spins and you're still not at +1 or more then you would increase your bet according to Rules 4,5 and 6.
Hope that helps. Thanks for asking and actually, I've not looked at playing using that strategy. It may have merit if we look at some of the longer series where we are going back and forth (or up and down), they happen.
Good luck.
Wally
I am working on my template for the Zuma tester. When I'm finished, I'll do a page or two and post them here. I'd really appreciate your taking a look and making sure I'm doing it right. Nothing like doing 5,000 spins and then learn you're doing it wrong.
Yes, I've done that!!
Sam
Quote from: VegasArick on Oct 11, 10:31 PM 2012
Wally, I am going thru the SS spin by spin so that I can memorize the rules.
(4) Increase by 1 unit if a series has lost 5 or more spins.
Lines 21 thru 27 show 5 losses "0"
Should line # 28 be a bet for 2 units?
As well as line 29 be a 2 unit bet and a win on the Single Zero for $18
Thanks, just trying to make sure I get it right.
Vegas, I'm not sure, but I think you're not getting the gist of how this works. We have 4 locations on the table that we bet on. We bet the same amount on each location. You can see from Wally's roulette wheel on his spreadsheet where the bets go. They never change. The only thing that changes is the number of units.
Let's say we start a new game. We bet 1 unit on each of the 4 locations. Let's say a #10 spins. That's a win for +5 units.
If we lose the 1st spin and win the 2nd spin by hitting say #17, we will be at +1. We lost 4 units on the 1st bet and we lost 3 units on the 2nd bet and we won 8 units on the 2nd bet, so 8-7=+1.
Personally, I reset if either of the 2 above events happens. I only continue my 7 bet cycle if I lose the 1st 2 bets. Or, if I lose my 1st 2 bets for -8 and I hit the 0,00,2 basket bet which pays 8 units I reset here also because I am at even after 3 bets.
If we're betting 1 on each location and we lose 5 bets, we move to the next level of betting 2 units on each of the 4 locations. We never bet 2 on the 7,8,10,11 and 3 on the 17,18, 20, 21 and 1 on the 0, 00, 2 and 2 on the 29, 30, 32, 33. No mixing bet amounts.
If everything I said above was understood by you, good! There's probably someone reading who didn't understand it but didn't want to log in and ask for clarification.
Cheers,
GLC
At the risk of getting off on a tangent, I will mention a slight variation for playing this.
That is to play the 0, 00, 2 basket with a separate progression than the 3 corner bets. We can do this 2 ways. First, we can play the basket for cycles of 7 bets with it's own progression and we can at the same time play the 3 corners for a cycle of 7 bets with their own progression.
So, we bet 1 on the basket for 7 spins. If it reaches +1 or higher within the 7 spins, we reset it, but we continue to play the 3 corners for their 7 spin cycle. If they reach +1, we can reset them. Any time we reach a new profit overall, we reset both progressions to 1.
So we could be betting the basket at 3 units each spin cycle and the corners for 2 units per spin cycle. The reason this can make a difference is that we can sometimes go for a good number of spins without hitting the basket which can drag the other 3 bets down and cause our overall draw down to be a lot more.
This is just an idea. I'm not saying it's better overall, but it can help keep our bet sizes down somewhat.
The other way we can play this is to set up 2 penthouse bet progression lines.
For the basket bet we would use a 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 etc... Move 1 step to the right on a loss and move eleven steps to the left on a win.
For the corners bets we use a dozen line: 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 etc... move 1 step to the right on a loss and move 2 steps to the left on a win. Remember, each 1 actually = 3 units because we're betting on 3 corners at the same time.
Just some ideas. Not necessarily better than WG's, just a little different.
As always Wally, no hard feelings if you delete this to keep the system steam lined.
I wish there was a way to make suggestions to a topic without them being in the main line of the topic. It would be nice if they could be footnotes or something.
GLC
GLC, & Wally,
thanks for the clarifications. GLc I do like the idea of playing the basket on that tiny progression.
Wally
I need to clarify something. When you hit the zero basket, you win a net of 8 units. When you hit a quad, you win a net of 5.
Is that correct?
Sam
Wally
I assumed it was correct as per your spread sheet.
Here is my first few numbers. Take a look at your method and tell me if I'm doing it right.
I tried to put lines on my template, but Zuma published their book with each page a little different than the one before. So I just write as carefully as I can.
Sam
Wally
I realize I did the math wrong on mine. I corrected it.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 15, 05:32 PM 2012
Wally
I need to clarify something. When you hit the zero basket, you win a net of 8 units. When you hit a quad, you win a net of 5.
Is that correct?
Sam
Yes, Sam, that's correct. I'll look at your spreadsheet in a minute.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 15, 06:57 PM 2012
Wally
I realize I did the math wrong on mine. I corrected it.
Sam
Sam, attached are your numbers played correctly. Hope it helps.
GLC,
George, many thanks for contributing. Always great to embrace other ideas. Love the progs .....
WG
Wally
I will study this completely. I'll get back to you.
Sam
Wally
I studied the play under the heading "Wally" and found my results were exactly the same as yours. The numbers under "Sam" are my own piggyback test.
Am I wrong. If so, where?
Sam
I highlighted my running total. Am I right?
Wally
Is there a way for me to plug numbers manually into your spread sheet and have it do the calculations for me? I'm not so good in Excel.
If there is, give me the exact steps please.
Sam
@ TwoCat,when I initially downloaded the SS I had to a message at the top to change it to edit mode.
Then I was able put my own numbers in.
vegas
Do you erase just the spun numbers?
Sam
I erase the spun numbers, the bets made and the money won and lost so that I can test Actuals from elsewhere.
I was thinking of printing so that I could take it to the casino. But so far I have just been outlining some blank cards that the casino provides and using those to track.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 15, 11:35 PM 2012
I highlighted my running total. Am I right?
Yup, this is accurate, Sam. You're playing it right.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 16, 11:53 AM 2012
Wally
Is there a way for me to plug numbers manually into your spread sheet and have it do the calculations for me? I'm not so good in Excel.
If there is, give me the exact steps please.
Sam
Sam, Vegas' information is accurate. The exact steps are:
1. Log into the spreadsheet and click the yellow/orange button that comes up and says "enable editing". This will allow you to access the spreadsheet.
2. Highlight all the numbers under the "#" sign heading.
3. Hit your delete button to remove all the numbers listed.
4. Highlight all the numbers under the "Bet" heading.
5. Hit your delete button to remove all the numbers listed.
6. Put your numbers in manually under the "#" heading.
7. Play the strategy by putting the amount wagered under the "Bet" heading.
8. Everything else self populates.
Good luck.
Got it!
Thanks, Guys.......
Wally
Went to Riverwind 00/RNG.
The system did not fare well, but I did not expect it to. There are lots of repeaters on that thing and I was not fortunate enough for them to be the right ones. Two other systems did not fare well either.
Sam
Really sorry to hear that, Sam. Can you send me the numbers?
Wally
I never recorded them, but I played exactly by the rules.
On that day, the 6 and the 18 beat me to death!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 20, 02:28 PM 2012
Wally
I never recorded them, but I played exactly by the rules.
On that day, the 6 and the 18 beat me to death!
Sam
Sam, not sure how you played, but a hit on 18 is a win, not a loss.
I normally gravitate to systems that play a smaller number of straight up inside bets and occassionally some dozens or streets...but this system is intriguing.
I ran it against some actual spins from the MGM in Detroit and it fared pretty well excepting an ugly streak near the end of the one session (small session 120 spins). It's a cyclical game so I expect the waves and in a small sample I just didn't have the next wave or two on the upside to balance out the one really bad run. Everything else I tested was pretty solid in performance though.
But when you add a third column bet to the mix it made a difference. I haven't had time to run more tests against actual numbers or work out a third column progression (maybe just a multiplier/factor of the inside unit bet?) But it might be worth a look as a tweak. Almost every one of the longer losing streaks that I saw in testing at least had a few third column hits to cut the drawdown and a few were just littered with hits that would have been making a profit on their own assuming the progression didn't get out of hand.
Although as I stated I generally like the dozens if I am not on the inside or in conjunction with a small number of inside bets...I have traditionally been a little gun-shy on the columns as they just seem streakier than the dozens and in my experience...well...let's just say it hasn't generally been a favorable streakiness situation for me over the years. But in this case if the progression was lean enough it might be an enhancement that would be worth looking at.
Just something to think about anyway
Thanks for the contribution Wally
Wally
OK, I really screwed up.
I could make some excuses, but the first line is sufficient. Glad I was betting .25 per bet to start.
Sam
Quote from: rouletteKEY on Oct 20, 08:21 PM 2012
I normally gravitate to systems that play a smaller number of straight up inside bets and occassionally some dozens or streets...but this system is intriguing.
I ran it against some actual spins from the MGM in Detroit and it fared pretty well excepting an ugly streak near the end of the one session (small session 120 spins). It's a cyclical game so I expect the waves and in a small sample I just didn't have the next wave or two on the upside to balance out the one really bad run. Everything else I tested was pretty solid in performance though.
But when you add a third column bet to the mix it made a difference. I haven't had time to run more tests against actual numbers or work out a third column progression (maybe just a multiplier/factor of the inside unit bet?) But it might be worth a look as a tweak. Almost every one of the longer losing streaks that I saw in testing at least had a few third column hits to cut the drawdown and a few were just littered with hits that would have been making a profit on their own assuming the progression didn't get out of hand.
Although as I stated I generally like the dozens if I am not on the inside or in conjunction with a small number of inside bets...I have traditionally been a little gun-shy on the columns as they just seem streakier than the dozens and in my experience...well...let's just say it hasn't generally been a favorable streakiness situation for me over the years. But in this case if the progression was lean enough it might be an enhancement that would be worth looking at.
Just something to think about anyway
Thanks for the contribution Wally
I've not tried this with a third column. The bottom line with this method is that, like most, it waves with the Ecart, and you have to take advantage of that. In your example of 120 spins, if you are on the down side then the wave will normally change within 100 spins. I've had lousy sessions, but they always get me back to 0 or plus and while it turns into a wasted day I've not experienced much of a dip in my BR.
What I like most about this approach is that you are wagering 4 units to make either 5 or 8 on each win. There are tons of various progressions you could use. If you are concerned about the wave, simply wait and watch the direction before jumping in, or jump in at 1 unit until the wave comes and play it using a plus coup.
If you look at the layout on the 00 wheel, you will see that this also takes advantage of 2 sectors of the wheel and the zeros. If you notice from the bet selection, it also takes advantage of the 0 finales bet. So, again, here are 2 additional ways of playing it.
Another positive aspect is if you are on the down side of a wave, take your 4 units and play the 0 finales only. It's also a good recovery method. I don't have time to post examples, but if you look at what's written you'll easily see what I'm talking about.
Hope it helps.
Wally
I'm going to try again today. I'll bet correctly this time and record the numbers.
Sam
Good luck, Sam.
Wally
Here are the numbers. I underlined the hits. At the first of the trot, they were few and far between but at one time there were five in a row and several within a few spins of each other.
I had to quit as I hit my loss limit. I'm sure it would have pulled out had I stayed.
I missed three numbers, a 29 and back-to-back 8s. The screen where you touch on this Roulette Evolution will not place the bets where you want them sometimes. I could not get the corner 7 8 10 11 or the one with the 29 in it either.
Once they scolded me for hitting the screen!!
Sam
Sam, here are your numbers played through. Had you played them out and correctly, you would have ended at +23. Low was -217 and highest bet was 6. Hope it helps.
Wally
Thank you for your time.
If I may say a word or two in my defense: When I sit down at the "wheel", invariably someone will sit down next to me and want an explanation. This is why I like to play in my office at home. I have some condition--attention deficit disorder--or something that makes is extremely difficult for me to keep my wits when someone talks to me. Even my wife.
Nothing chaps me arse more than someone sitting down and asking, "How do you work this thing?" Today an old, smoking geezer asked me what color was hitting. Fifteen firggin' numbers on the marquee and he can't look up!!
I won't use a table saw with anyone within a hundred feet of me. Seriously!! I got all my fingers.
Sam
Sam, you're a funny guy!! Yes, this strategy requires attention and, believe me, I can't stand it when everyone at the table needs to either know what you're doing or have to tell you how much they made tonight. Of course, that would be at another table because what they're doing at your table is tanking badly.
Something I think what people here on the forums miss is that it is not that difficult to consistently win. It takes alot of patience, a good amount of discipline and watching what the heck is going on, then play a strategy that fits what you are experiencing. There are so many strategies right here that will easily allow for that. But, the vast majority of us will never do it. I'm not sure if it's the instant gratification gene within us or a lack of business sense.
Thank, Wally. I try to see the lighter side; keeps me from going totally crazy.
I am a different person in my office/casino. I still make mistakes, but I'm working to eliminate them.
What I wanted your idea for was when I get on-line gambling from Vegas. That's when I'll truly put it to the test.
Also, I have not given up on the Zuma tester. While my wife is recuperating, that will be where my time is spent. That and on FLATman's systems.
So many systems; so little time!
Samster
Just attempting to think outside the box slightly, as I am looking over recent session numbers.
What about a "wait and hunt" approach with Wallys bet selection?
Not sure what the "optimal" number of consecutive Missed Hits would be,
but I am thinking 4 or 5 Missed spins in a row = Trigger and begin betting with GC'c progression on
the basket.
There are many ways to play this. 4 is the optimal number. Another option is to play a progression that allows for a second hit, then back to 1.
1,1,2,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12,15,19,23, etc..... add last 3 and divide by 2 for the next number. Need a large BR, but works exceptionally well. Play for a back to back hit after the first 2 misses or a win, miss, win works.