So if all system fails in the long run, it means we will lose soon or later. If that's the case then we are wasting time here, so my question is, if we use 3or 4 methodes that wins most of the time, using a different method each time when lose in order to recover. Of course, have disapline and stop lose amounts. Does that mean we can beat roulette?
"3or 4 methodes that wins most of the time"
By "wins", do you mean wins more than it loses or just wins more times than it loses but at a loss. (You can bet two dozens and your win rate is 66% but you lose money.)
So if you have 3 or 4 methods that win more than they lose, you're in the tall cotton.
Sam
It's an old idea and we've all done it I'm sure.
Most of the time things will work out, but there are times when you switch systems and lose when if you had stayed with the original method your winnings would have continued.
The most important thing is to get out with some profit, or a minimal loss. Don't hang around playing a bunch of different systems just for the sake of it.
You can't gang up on random and you don't want to make it angry because I heard from a good source that random's name is David Bruce Banner.
QuoteBy "wins", do you mean wins more than it loses or just wins more times than it loses but at a loss. (You can bet two dozens and your win rate is 66% but you lose money.)
thats a interesting statement. You see, I have a system that gives you 8:1 chance of winning and systems like code 4 can give 80:1 chance of winning. If you put them in a simulator and test it over 1m spins, I'm sure they both will fail. However, being a seasoned roulette player, we can use disicipline and instinct and MM and bunch of other tools to increase our chances to come out a long term winner.
e.g. Play code 4 and hit a double loss, lets say you lost 100 units. You switch system and try to win back the 100 unit you just lost with code 4. That should increase you chance should it? The reason I think that is because different systems will track differently and attack different part of the roulette game. .e.g. so will be based on dozens but some on even chances.
Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulett?
answer: 100% YES!
...if we use 3or 4 methodes that wins most of the time, using a different method each time when lose in order to recover. Of course, have discipline and stop-loss amounts. Does that mean we can beat roulette?--Amazin
There's a good chance in my opinion of profit during the winning periods when a bettor first notices the downturn and stops immediately--or realizes the session is a loss and stops.
Quote from: speed on Nov 02, 09:35 PM 2012
Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulett?
answer: 100% YES!
100% NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speeds anwser is the reason the general concensus on this game remains that its unbeatable in the longrun using a method. So you have people thinking the only way to get this so-called edge over the game is to find a biased wheel. Or use VB or someother nonsense.
Ask yourself this question. Does a business have to make profit every month to come out of the financial year in profit? OF COURSE NOT. So why does a roulette method have to be any different?. ITS LONGTERM PROFIT we seek not overnight gratification. And the people who have little or no patience to realize this, show themselves very quickly on these forums. Speed being one of them (His username, a bit of a giveaway too). And several others, sitting on the sidelines with nothing but empty pessimistic remarks to offer. Those who know better go forward. 10 years from now the usual negative thinkers will still be making these same remarks and getting nowhere fast.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Nov 03, 01:58 AM 2012
100% NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speeds anwser is the reason the general concensus on this game remains that its unbeatable in the longrun using a method. So you have people thinking the only way to get this so-called edge over the game is to find a biased wheel. Or use VB or someother nonsense.
Ask yourself this question. Does a business have to make profit every month to come out of the financial year in profit? OF COURSE NOT. So why does a roulette method have to be any different?. ITS LONGTERM PROFIT we seek not overnight gratification. And the people who have little or no patience to realize this, show themselves very quickly on these forums. Speed being one of them (His username, a bit of a giveaway too). And several others, sitting on the sidelines with nothing but empty pessimistic remarks to offer. Those who know better go forward. 10 years from now the usual negative thinkers will still be making these same remarks and getting nowhere fast.
Sorry JL, I'm agree with SPEED .
Cheers
John Rotterdam
Speed is one of the few people here that makes some sense. If you want an answer to your question Amazin you need to start with the fact that every method fails usually latest by 1M mark in testing. Methods with long progression can go on producing winning runs for a while - i have one that still holds very well after 150k spins and 3500 games. But if you accept a statistical odds of roulette and independence of each spin in principle (im not talking Marigny stuff or capitalizing on SD) each method played in the long run is expected to produce a total loss. Its like randomly taking samples from set of 1M spins and expecting different result than in 1M spins continuous play. Stop loss, win goal and BR are treated as a way to increase your odds but they only represent a breaking point in each session.
They are important as a control factor. Most players just fail to see a bigger picture and chase a perfect method. There is none found yet in 300 years but some will be willing to prove me wrong. ;D And a perfect method is not the one that wins every time but guarantees you to be in profit at any period of time. In my method i passed a relative large number of spins but im far from declaring
it the thing. Its just a lucky run.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Nov 03, 01:58 AM 2012
100% NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speeds anwser is the reason the general concensus on this game remains that its unbeatable in the longrun using a method. So you have people thinking the only way to get this so-called edge over the game is to find a biased wheel. Or use VB or someother nonsense.
Ask yourself this question. Does a business have to make profit every month to come out of the financial year in profit? OF COURSE NOT. So why does a roulette method have to be any different?. ITS LONGTERM PROFIT we seek not overnight gratification. And the people who have little or no patience to realize this, show themselves very quickly on these forums. Speed being one of them (His username, a bit of a giveaway too). And several others, sitting on the sidelines with nothing but empty pessimistic remarks to offer. Those who know better go forward. 10 years from now the usual negative thinkers will still be making these same remarks and getting nowhere fast.
I do not intend to attack anyone, but this can only write casino promoter :-\
Speed,
Do u intend to attack or u don't, u still do attack. As before. And i have to warn u again against labeling your opponents like that. Remember that your "comrade-in-arms" was banned from here for such remarks.
Everybody has right to express his or her opinion without being labeled like that. Unless there is real prove of this.
John has never promoted any casino here. And 2nd thing --John unlike most of the guys here
really proved he is capable to win (much more than he lost) for substantial periods of time.
OMG u again !?
Yes everybody has right to express his or her opinion, and my option is that this forum was occupied by casino promoters.
How else call this people who only "can" beat roulette with their systems and nobody except them can't do that with same rules.
I see every 10 days he post system with new rules, when people see that last one is losing.
I repeat JL is casino promoter or just one man who needs an audience.
speed
Speed is 100% correct.
If 10000 players all played short term system that won most of the time still means overall combined they have lost. Anyone who thinks a winning system only needs to win shortterm has little experience or knowledge
The question is: Is there a holy grail in life ? :)
We all know the answer :)
The magic is in finding !
Quote from: Steve on Nov 03, 06:22 PM 2012
Speed is 100% correct.
If 10000 players all played short term system that won most of the time still means overall combined they have lost. Anyone who thinks a winning system only needs to win shortterm has little experience or knowledge
a very good example that explain all. :)
Speed u keep attacking other people personally rather than their opinions.
Steve, is it right to call someone a "casino promoter" just because he has a "wrong" point of view?
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 03, 06:38 PM 2012
Speed u keep attacking other people personally rather than their opinions.
Steve, is it right to call someone a "casino promoter" just because he has a "wrong" point of view?
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 03, 05:23 PM 2012
Speed,
Do u intend to attack or u don't, u still do attack. As before. And i have to warn u again against labeling your opponents like that. Remember that your "comrade-in-arms" was banned from here for such remarks.
Everybody has right to express his or her opinion without being labeled like that. Unless there is real prove of this.
John has never promoted any casino here. And 2nd thing --John unlike most of the guys here
really proved he is capable to win (much more than he lost) for substantial periods of time.
john had a personal swipe at Speed....does he get a public warning too Iggiv...or are you being biased.
Infact, you havnt posted for weeks. Do you just sit there waiting for speed to post? You are like a coiled spring where Speed is concerned.
i did not read the forum for some time, Turner. And i don't have any responsibility before u to
read or not to read this forum. Your are not the owner here. And it was not u who asked me to be a Mod here.
I just see what i see. I just say what i think is right. If i see Speed discuss normal roulette stuff i have nothing against him. But he does tend to make it personal from time to time. And i saw it more than one time. If it was not speed but your or John Legend who accused someone to be a casino promoter i would say the same thing to him or u.
Now -- about JL -- i did not see him attacking anyone, but i saw him to be attacked and defending himself many times. And those attacks did include Speed's.
Now when someone accuses someone in those forums about being a casino promoter he would better give some hard evidence of this or just shut up. That's what i think as a Mod, and that's something of a kind what Steve told before. There is nothing new about it.
Now i can see that Steve agrees with Speed on his roulette views, that's fine with me. But that does not give Speed any right to make attacks on other members like he did now. But he always gets away with that somehow. Even that his fellow MOP was banned for such things.
i think it is unfair for anyone to get away with things like that. Not because i dislike Speed, but rather because i think it is unfair. I say what i think is RIGHT and i don't care who attacks who.
If i saw someone attacking speed and accusing him for being a casino promoter i would react the same way. Neither him or John or u or me are casino promoters here.
Casino promoters usually have affiliate links to certain casino on their websites. That's how it works usually. When Speed will show us that JL gave here some links to a website which has affiliate links to casinos then he may be right. But it did not happen so far.
if JL says something u or me or speed does not like it does not give anybody any right to accuse him of such things.
it is beyond me how people around can't see that those things said by speed ( and before that by MOP) are extremely unfair and insulting...
I said before and i will say it again. JL may be wrong (though he did show a hard evidence he wins with his methods!), but at least i can say he is truthful in his views. He does not intend to trick someone into something, he is not a scammer (as he was accused by some here). So for his sincere desire to share and show what he knows (or he thinks he knows) -- he gets crap here consistently. From characters like speed.
Now -- let's say there is another guy here who knows a trick or two. Why would he want now to share anything on this forum? if he gets instead of "thanx" what JL got?
I will tell u one thing Turner. I know for sure there are some guys in this forum who could help u and others for example. But they won't. Why? because of "JL-speed" precedent and many likewise. Because who needs to get a crap for trying to be good with others? Nobody.
Rather they will help and share things individually with someone who they think they can trust and who will look at least a nice and friendly person.
that's what i think.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 03, 07:57 PM 2012
i did not read the forum for some time, Turner. And i don't have any responsibility before u to
read or not to read this forum. Your are not the owner here. And it was not u who asked me to be a Mod here.
I just see what i see. I just say what i think is right. If i see Speed discuss normal roulette stuff i have nothing against him. But he does tend to make it personal from time to time. And i saw it more than one time. If it was not speed but your or John Legend who accused someone to be a casino promoter i would say the same thing to him or u.
Now -- about JL -- i did not see him attacking anyone, but i saw him to be attacked and defending himself many times. And those attacks did include Speed's.
Now when someone accuses someone in those forums about being a casino promoter he would better give some hard evidence of this or just shut up. That's what i think as a Mod, and that's something of a kind what Steve told before. There is nothing new about it.
Now i can see that Steve agrees with Speed on his roulette views, that's fine with me. But that does not give Speed any right to make attacks on other members like he did now. But he always gets away with that somehow. Even that his fellow MOP was banned for such things.
i think it is unfair for anyone to get away with things like that. Not because i dislike Speed, but rather because i think it is unfair. I say what i think is RIGHT and i don't care who attacks who.
If i saw someone attacking speed and accusing him for being a casino promoter i would react the same way. Neither him or John or u or me are casino promoters here.
Casino promoters usually have affiliate links to certain casino on their websites. That's how it works usually. When Speed will show us that JL gave here some links to a website which has affiliate links to casinos then he may be right. But it did not happen so far.
if JL says something u or me or speed does not like it does not give anybody any right to accuse him of such things.
it is beyond me how people around can't see that those things said by speed ( and before that by MOP) are extremely unfair and insulting...
Mod or not Iggiv, I can disagree with you, unless this is a police state.
Turner
Quote from: Steve on Nov 03, 06:22 PM 2012
Speed is 100% correct.
If 10000 players all played short term system that won most of the time still means overall combined they have lost. Anyone who thinks a winning system only needs to win shortterm has little experience or knowledge
Are you saying that we need a system that can survive infinite spins otherwise nobody can profit from roulette in the long run? If that's the case, then nobody is winning in roulette and we are all wasting our time here. Is that what you're implying?
Turner,yes u can disagree, i don't mind. But i don't have to agree with u either while trying to keep this forum clean. I am doing what i think is right. There was one guy here who decided to kick me out of mods and created a poll. Actually i created it for him. Is iggiv OK or not as a mod. the majority like 70-80% said iggiv is OK.
i dont really NEED to be a mod here. Actually i am not learning from here anymore as in the beginning.
But somehow i got sentiments for this forum. That's why i am a mod and that's why i try to
stop mutual attacking and insults to each other. I want to keep this forum clean.
and that's a lie (or weird mistake) that most of the guys here are casino promoters.
Casino promoters DONT WORK FOR FREE. they have their affiliate links on their websites and they don't waste their time on forums sharing methods like that.
this Speed is weird. I have nothing against his views on roulette (though for what i know --what he says has very little practical value for playing roulette). But when he starts with other forum members for their "wrong" views on roulette like that -- it is beyond me what that has to do with real roulette winning...
Amazin I am saying 10000 players all using a no-fail short term system means the winners think they have the hg, the losers see reality, and the people that see both sides see that the winners have deluded themselves into thinking they have the hg.
10000 players all playing short term is an overall loss. Do u think all short term players will be winners?.. See the bigger picture.
Any system that requires short term play is a losing system. I will explain more Monday but The forums see it's rubbish all the time and most people don't learn from it.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 03, 07:57 PM 2012
i did not read the forum for some time, Turner. And i don't have any responsibility before u to
read or not to read this forum. Your are not the owner here. And it was not u who asked me to be a Mod here.
I just see what i see. I just say what i think is right. If i see Speed discuss normal roulette stuff i have nothing against him. But he does tend to make it personal from time to time. And i saw it more than one time. If it was not speed but your or John Legend who accused someone to be a casino promoter i would say the same thing to him or u.
Now -- about JL -- i did not see him attacking anyone, but i saw him to be attacked and defending himself many times. And those attacks did include Speed's.
Now when someone accuses someone in those forums about being a casino promoter he would better give some hard evidence of this or just shut up. That's what i think as a Mod, and that's something of a kind what Steve told before. There is nothing new about it.
Now i can see that Steve agrees with Speed on his roulette views, that's fine with me. But that does not give Speed any right to make attacks on other members like he did now. But he always gets away with that somehow. Even that his fellow MOP was banned for such things.
i think it is unfair for anyone to get away with things like that. Not because i dislike Speed, but rather because i think it is unfair. I say what i think is RIGHT and i don't care who attacks who.
If i saw someone attacking speed and accusing him for being a casino promoter i would react the same way. Neither him or John or u or me are casino promoters here.
Casino promoters usually have affiliate links to certain casino on their websites. That's how it works usually. When Speed will show us that JL gave here some links to a website which has affiliate links to casinos then he may be right. But it did not happen so far.
if JL says something u or me or speed does not like it does not give anybody any right to accuse him of such things.
it is beyond me how people around can't see that those things said by speed ( and before that by MOP) are extremely unfair and insulting...
...just notice that u mentioned me 10 times in one post, it tells how much you are obsessed with me, I suggest you write a book about me ;D
Speed just smells strong bs, and sees naivity
Speed looks to me that u want some Herostratic fame. But i am not obsessed with u. :)
I am obsessed with this forum to keep it clean from scandalous characters like u. If i mentioned u many times, that's because u r a good example of a troublemaker in this forum in my opinion.
but it's up to Steve. If it it's OK with him that someone will accuse this forum of being a forum of casino promoters, then it's fine with me. Life can be unfair, but it won't disturb me personally in any way. :)
Pity, that's it. I have been a first member of this forum (just after Vic himself), i remember well how this forum started and how easily it got rid of unfriendly characters like u.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 03, 09:26 PM 2012
Speed looks to me that u want some Herostratic fame. But i am not obsessed with u. :)
I am obsessed with this forum to keep it clean from scandalous characters like u. If i mentioned u many times, that's because u r a good example of a troublemaker in this forum in my opinion.
but it's up to Steve. If it it's OK with him that someone will accuse this forum of being a forum of casino promoters, then it's fine with me. Life can be unfair, but it won't disturb me personally in any way. :)
Pity, that's it. I have been a first member of this forum (just after Vic himself), i remember well how this forum started and how easily it got rid of unfriendly characters like u.
Iggiv I appologize to speed if I have addressed him in an offensive manner. At the end of the next three years Superman will summarize my progress on an uncheatable format. The way I think and play will be proven to work beyond doubt. And I will have nothing more to say. Actions speak louder than words.
Even Steve can be wrong, let's not forget that.
Quote from: Johnlegend on Nov 04, 01:40 AM 2012
Iggiv I appologize to speed if I have addressed him in an offensive manner. At the end of the next three years Superman will summarize my progress on an uncheatable format. The way I think and play will be proven to work beyond doubt. And I will have nothing more to say. Actions speak louder than words.
Even Steve can be wrong, let's not forget that.
John
Numbers speak louder than words. ;D And what is an uncheatable format in your opinion?
Quote from: Amazin on Nov 03, 08:22 PM 2012
Are you saying that we need a system that can survive infinite spins otherwise nobody can profit from roulette in the long run? If that's the case, then nobody is winning in roulette and we are all wasting our time here. Is that what you're implying?
Steve and Speed are both right. But you have to connect the dots on your own. Nobody can really help you with that. ;D
all this becomes really ridiculous and reminds me about dark age times when big brains were arguing how many angels or devils can get a room on a needle point. "This is wrong and this is right".
There is no right or wrong, there are some people which manage to make money on roulette consistently and there are those who don't. So at the end of the day those who do --are right.
Those who don't are wrong. And especially those are wrong who accuse another side of some bad intentions with no basis of their accusations.
That's what for me is "right or wrong".
some guys here forget what they are here for. They came here to find ways to defeat roulette, but instead they want to prove that they are "right". Or that they are smart, and the opponent is dumb. Or a lier, or something of a kind. and this is goin on for hours -- "proves", bold statements,
and virtual hitting one's own chest.
which team is right and which team is wrong here
The Haka - New Zealand Vs Tonga (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4#)
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 06:37 AM 2012
all this becomes really ridiculous and reminds me about dark age times when big brains were arguing how many angels or devils can get a room on a needle point. "This is wrong and this is right".
There is no right or wrong, there are some people which manage to make money on roulette consistently and there are those who don't. So at the end of the day those who do --are right.
Those who don't are wrong. And especially those are wrong who accuse another side of some bad intentions with no basis of their accusations.
That's what for me is "right or wrong".
Many guys here forget what they are here for. They came here to find ways to defeat roulette, but instead they want to prove that they are "right". Or that they are smart, and the opponent is dumb. Or a lier, or something of a kind. and this is goin on for hours -- "proves", bold statements,
and virtual hitting one's own chest.
which team is right and which team is wrong here
The Haka - New Zealand Vs Tonga (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4#)
Iggiv, but you also make generalised accusations about posters here and in your other texts. Like I keep saying to you...its fine telling everyone how they are wrong and dont know what they are doing and their ideas will fail
so post up! tell us how to do it properly. Give us a masterclass in how to win at roulette.
Im all ears!
Fair enough...my ideas may be cra.p, but I do post them.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 06:37 AM 2012
all this becomes really ridiculous and reminds me about dark age times when big brains were arguing how many angels or devils can get a room on a needle point. "This is wrong and this is right".
There is no right or wrong, there are some people which manage to make money on roulette consistently and there are those who don't. So at the end of the day those who do --are right.
Those who don't are wrong. And especially those are wrong who accuse another side of some bad intentions with no basis of their accusations.
That's what for me is "right or wrong".
Many guys here forget what they are here for. They came here to find ways to defeat roulette, but instead they want to prove that they are "right". Or that they are smart, and the opponent is dumb. Or a lier, or something of a kind. and this is goin on for hours -- "proves", bold statements,
and virtual hitting one's own chest.
which team is right and which team is wrong here
The Haka - New Zealand Vs Tonga (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4#)
The only thing Iggiv that anybody can prove here is that he has an access to the internet ;D With an advancement in information technology its impossible to prove here that you have more knowledge or you are smarter than anybody. And its not the issue. You can beat roulette without it for some time but if you hope to continue it on a constant basis you better get your game plan right. We are just a competitive bunch of guys here - lets face it....gamblers. If you still are not sure what to do to be a successful player/gambler at least try to learn what not to do. And this is what this forum should be about.
Turner, i did not generalize any accusations. i am on friendly terms with anyone here who has a different opinion than me, but expresses it in normal nice friendly manner. The good example of it is Robeenhut or Drazencro. They criticized my ideas, but in a friendly manner. What can i generalize about them?
i am not gonna show any masterclass here. What for? to waste many hours or even days or weeks of my time, to make a big effort with no result or understanding and then end up as a scammer, lier and casino promoter? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
i gave here some of my ideas and practical advices how to work with RX to analyze the game for example. No free lunch here. U gotta do lots of your own work to get any good results, and there is no guarantee at the end. And i am always ready to share my ideas with nice people individually.
Rob, i do agree with some things u say, but if u r competitive, do it as JL. take challenge, show your success, and so on. I am not competitive here. I wanna keep peace here, that's all. And i try to keep fairness on top of the things. It is OK to say that one side is "right" like u say (though there is no practical values for us in those "rights" or "wrongs"), but it is extremely unfair to blame another side for something totally out of reality.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 07:33 AM 2012
Rob, i do agree with some things u say, but if u r competitive, do it as JL. take challenge, show your success, and so on. I am not competitive here. I wanna keep peace here, that's all. And i try to keep fairness on top of the things. It is OK to say that one side is "right" like u say (though there is no practical values for us in those "rights" or "wrongs"), but it is extremely unfair to blame another side for something totally out of reality.
As i stated before im more of "what not to do" guy. If i had something really good to share i would share it but so far no permanent success story in my case. Just sharing my views here and not trying to teach anybody here at any cost. Im just maybe too allergic to a lack of common sense ;D
Rob u know my opinion. If i understand your views right, your idea that there should be somewhere
some perfect way of playing which can be proved successfully for lots of spins in a row. I dont believe in this. it does not exist. Unless some physical methods like VB or bias are involved, but we are not talking about it now.
if u concentrate on trying to beat a roulette from time to time u may get different results. That's my idea. I got lots of b/s for this idea, but i still did not give it up. That's it.
And i dont really care, is it called "the same consistent method", or "different methods". Does not make sense to me. if u can do it the same way -- fine, a few ways -- also good. What comes in the end is important.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 07:23 AM 2012
Turner, i did not generalize any accusations. i am on friendly terms with anyone here who has a different opinion than me, but expresses it in normal nice friendly manner. The good example of it is Robeenhut or Drazencro. They criticized my ideas, but in a friendly manner. What can i generalize about them?
i am not gonna show any masterclass here. What for? to waste many hours or even days or weeks of my time, to make a big effort with no result or understanding and then end up as a scammer, lier and casino promoter? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
i gave here some of my ideas and practical advices how to work with RX to analyze the game for example. No free lunch here. U gotta do lots of your own work to get any good results, and there is no guarantee at the end. And i am always ready to share my ideas with nice people individually.
Fair enough
I will carry on sharing my ideas publicly. In my view, thats what the forum is for.
I would be very happy if someone reported back that something I posted had won them a few quid.
Turner
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 08:04 AM 2012
Rob You know my opinion. If i understand your views right, your idea that there should be somewhere
some perfect way of playing which can be proved successfully for lots of spins in a row. I don't believe in this. it does not exist. Unless some physical methods like VB or bias are involved, but we are not talking about it now.
if u concentrate on trying to beat a roulette from time to time u may get different results. That's my idea. I got lots of b/s for this idea, but i still did not give it up. That's it.
And i don't really care, is it called "the same consistent method", or "different methods". Does not make sense to me. if You can do it the same way -- fine, a few ways -- also good. What comes in the end is important.
I guess u got me wrong on this. And if we know that in large number of spins all method fail how to win more than lose in sessions consisting of smaller number of spins its the main question. The problem is that some think that they have an answer. And the other half thinks that its a wrong answer. ;D
Turner just get to win, all the rest does not matter. it is easy to share simple general concepts like
hit-n-run, check certain amount of spins back, use law of the third, bet on single numbers, not on dozens. Randomize your results.Check your statistics with RX skipping different amount of spins. All this i shared with the public. That's simple. And mostly people showed no interest to explore further except demands like "show me more", "enlighten me", "show me masterclass".
but hard things which are hard to explain -- are hard to share. I guess some things u will have to get on your own, if u don't, u just won't get them. all this is not just as simple. Many people just want easy method on their hands -- and that's a problem. But that's much more complicated.
i could spend days weeks and months trying to defend and explain my point of view and result would be mostly likely not just zero, but totally negative. It already happened here.
Rob, as much as i remember u did not believe in hit-n-run before, but u rather believed that some guy somewhere plays roulette from 9 to 5 non-stop each day of the week and every day comes home with at least a few hundred dollars of profit.
that's what i remember
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 08:32 AM 2012
Rob, as much as i remember u did not believe in hit-n-run before, but u rather believed that some guy somewhere plays roulette from 9 to 5 non-stop each day of the week and every day comes home with at least a few hundred dollars of profit.
that's what i remember
Never HAR for me like you can see in my arguing with John. And i also now think that roulette can not be 9 to 5 job either. People change their views. I went from idealistic to i guess realistic :D
u say funny things. just like MOP used to. "No hit-n-run!" "Hit-n-run is the worst fallacy ever!". Then he tells how he played in casino. Just a few spins and get the hell out of there. He used hit-n-run tactics in real life but attacked this term online in the forum just for talk's sake.
U now recognized that it is dangerous and not smart to play many spins in a row, but alternative to it IS HIT-N-RUN. There is no other alternative. Hit-n-run IS ABOUT SHORT SESSIONS. like most smart players do. but u still are afraid of the word. just like MOP.
all this just shows lack of understanding. Total confusion. sorry.
i know u can reply with a lot of smart terms and define this and that, but essentially...it is like i said.
Confusion...
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 09:26 AM 2012
There is no other alternative. Hit-n-run IS ABOUT SHORT SESSIONS. like most smart players do.
I agree iggiv. Nobody wants to lose the shirt of the back. Here is my 4 year results from dublin casino. I am still in the black and + in roulette because of hit and run. Look at roulette 1. I just need another 50 cents to break the 100 euro mark. :smile:
bob.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 08:28 AM 2012
Turner just get to win, all the rest does not matter. it is easy to share simple general concepts like
hit-n-run, check certain amount of spins back, use law of the third, bet on single numbers, not on dozens. Randomize your results.Check your statistics with RX skipping different amount of spins. All this i shared with the public. That's simple. And mostly people showed no interest to explore further except demands like "show me more", "enlighten me", "show me masterclass".
but hard things which are hard to explain -- are hard to share. I guess some things u will have to get on your own, if u don't, u just won't get them. all this is not just as simple. Many people just want easy method on their hands -- and that's a problem. But that's much more complicated.
i could spend days weeks and months trying to defend and explain my point of view and result would be mostly likely not just zero, but totally negative. It already happened here.
OK then, Dont help anyone "friend at large"....whos cares?
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 09:26 AM 2012
u say funny things. just like MOP used to. "No hit-n-run!" "Hit-n-run is the worst fallacy ever!". Then he tells how he played in casino. Just a few spins and get the hell out of there. He used hit-n-run tactics in real life but attacked this term online in the forum just for talk's sake.
U now recognized that it is dangerous and not smart to play many spins in a row, but alternative to it IS HIT-N-RUN. There is no other alternative. Hit-n-run IS ABOUT SHORT SESSIONS. like most smart players do. but u still are afraid of the word. just like MOP.
all this just shows lack of understanding. Total confusion. sorry.
i know You can reply with a lot of smart terms and define this and that, but essentially...it is like i said.
Confusion...
Roulette is confusing and i think we got stuck on words in this discussion. And im tired of discussions lately. MOP and myself differed a lot but he displayed some common sense. But his problem was a bad attitude and some people dont like a different point of view here. Lets agree to disagree because essentially nobody can prove anything here. ;D
Quote from: Turner on Nov 04, 10:15 AM 2012
OK then, don't help anyone "friend at large"....whos cares?
that's the same attitude i was talking about. "I want it all". U don't pay attention when u get advice, You are not willing to work with it, u just demand to show u "masterclass". Holy grail on a blue plate -- that's all u want. And if u don't get it -- then "who cares"? Not u any way. Arrogance, accusations and demands.when i suggested u cooperation in PM once u suddenly answered me maybe couple of months later when i forgot about it already.
U should realize that if u want something, u gotta be at least friendly and nice, but u r not. When u "ask" for help, it is always like u r not asking, but rather demanding, as if someone has obligations before u. So there we go.
Of course i don't care much about such people...
By the way "Friend at large" -- that's a signature Vic created for me when i registered in this forum just after him, when he still tested it.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 10:33 AM 2012
that's the same attitude i was talking about. "I want it all". U don't pay attention when u get advice, You are not willing to work with it, u just demand to show u "masterclass". Holy grail on a blue plate -- that's all u want. And if u don't get it -- then "who cares"? Not u any way. Arrogance, accusations and demands.when i suggested u cooperation in PM once u suddenly answered me maybe couple of months later when i forgot about it already.
U should realize that if u want something, u gotta be at least friendly and nice, but u r not. When u "ask" for help, it is always like u r not asking, but rather demanding, as if someone has obligations before u. So there we go.
Of course i don't care much about such people...
By the way "Friend at large" -- that's a signature Vic created for me when i registered in this forum just after him, when he still tested it.
Quite a slanderous tirade...I would of pressed "report to moderator" but whats the point....you are the moderator lol
i did not insult u, Turner. Arrogance, hostility and demands --these are not insults. That's what u show here. And the fact that u for 2 months did not care to answer me in PM, is not insult either, at least not from me to u.
So no reason to complain to moderator. I know how to behave. I behaved towards u not worse than u towards me.
Keep asking for help the same way u used to, u will get lots of it :) ))
Good luck.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Nov 04, 10:22 AM 2012
Roulette is confusing and i think we got stuck on words in this discussion. And I'm tired of discussions lately. MOP and myself differed a lot but he displayed some common sense. But his problem was a bad attitude and some people don't like a different point of view here. Lets agree to disagree because essentially nobody can prove anything here. ;D
let's agree on this :)
as i said, i attack your point of view, but never your personality. I know u r a good man, Rob.
And i am really sorry that while being persistent and hard working on roulette stuff u still don't get something u may realize later.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 10:46 AM 2012
i did not insult u, Turner. Arrogance, hostility and demands --these are not insults. That's what u show here. And the fact that u for 2 months did not care to answer me in PM, is not insult either, at least not from me to u.
So no reason to complain to moderator. I know how to behave. I behaved towards u not worse than u towards me.
Keep asking for help the same way u used to, u will get lots of it :) ))
Good luck.
lol....
this was my PM to you. arrogant, hostile...what a nasty peice of work I am.
Hi Iggiv
As you are a GM and seem to be the only sane one around here, I thought I would run this by you.
Firstly, i only noticed that you sent me a message bout helping me with Roulette if I helped you with Chess. I genuinly have never seen that before, and apologise for never replying. I'm out of Chess right now (though I obviously know Chess) because of its back breaking agenda to improve. It made me ill.must of been traumatic receiving that.
u told me that my "tirade" should be shown to mod, i replied that i never insulted u. I mentioned your arrogance here and hostility towards me (not in your PM), and i mentioned the fact that u did not reply my PM for a couple of months.
When u say that my "tirade" should be shown to mod, it means it is insulting, i said, i know how to behave and did not insult u in any way. Mentioning your arrogance or PM answered couple of months later was not insulting.
So i did not accuse u of anything, i just replied to your accusations.
There was no reason to publish PMs here, because i have never told anything about u being insulting. Hostile, arrogant is not the same as insulting, am i right? And calling someone like this is not calling names.
And i did not say your PM was hostile. And by the way i didn't need any help with a chess.
When i sent u PM it was about working on roulette together maybe using your chess skills.
Anyway You can't say i did not try to offer u help or cooperation.
but for sure i regret i started any discussion with u. I don't like publishing private stuff on public and i don't like to discuss anything with u now.
Let's just say polite good bye to each other, Turner.
and one final apology. I totally forgot what u said in your PM, i am sorry about it. But i somehow found that weird that someone did not see the PM sent to him for a couple of months.
But i made a mistake mentioning it i admit it. I was wrong and I am sorry. Probably u really did not see my MP, and that has nothing to do with your further behaviour here.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Nov 04, 10:22 AM 2012
Roulette is confusing and i think we got stuck on words in this discussion. And I'm tired of discussions lately. MOP and myself differed a lot but he displayed some common sense. But his problem was a bad attitude and some people don't like a different point of view here. Lets agree to disagree because essentially nobody can prove anything here. ;D
Like I said. We cud be tellin Lies or bein Honest. I know which one I am but you never will.... So thats the best piece of advice Ive seen you write :thumbsup:
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 11:13 AM 2012
and i don't like to discuss anything with u now.
good...I think you have said enough
If Turner wishes to post a PM I know of no rules that state he can not ??? ???
Simple as that really..... ;)
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Nov 04, 11:26 AM 2012
If Turner wishes to post a PM I know of no rules that state he can not ??? ???
Simple as that really..... ;)
O0
1 mate on my list "tick" lol
Quote from: Turner on Nov 04, 11:28 AM 2012
1 mate on my list "tick" LoL
Us Brits have to stick together !!!!!
LOL
O0
Turner did not break any rules here. I have no problems with him as a mod whatsoever.
I don't take any revenge against anybody using my mod position. From my point of view Turner is as welcome here as anyone else who did not break any rules, and our personal frictions did not go beyond those rules.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 11:36 AM 2012
Turner did not break any rules here. I have no problems with him as a mod whatsoever.
From my point of view Turner is as welcome here as anyone else
thank f&ck for that!
I thought I would spend the rest of my life in VLS...with Cheese and Crackers....lol
i will cry day and nite...
that was real mature
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 04, 10:55 AM 2012
let's agree on this :)
as i said, i attack your point of view, but never your personality. I know u r a good man, Rob.
And i am really sorry that while being persistent and hard working on roulette stuff u still don't get something u may realize later.
Is this HAR Iggiv? To me it seems like HAR is the stuff the players try when they realize that nothing really works for sure in roulette. I was fortunate enough at least to find out for myself very early what not to do playing roulette. Its pretty easy to do if you really put your mind to it. There is a recent post by Steve in the "71500..." thread. It deals with issues of playing HAR or short sessions as opposed to longer sessions. Just go over it and apply a common sense.
There are probably no methods for long time winnings. It should not take very long to find out.
You can not know the outcome before (and I do not believe it is practical to use physics either).
Every spin can end as a win or loss.
That's the reason some like the HAR, they use a kind of bookkeeping, stop while ahead, and that days play is profit. Even if we do not believe HAR is better, we will quite often practice it, who will drive home or end an online game with a loss? We are happy to stop on plus!!
The total play are usually not in the bookkeeping.
Of the other hand we know, the good streak which give profit, will not last forever. To leave the table after shorter play has some good reason.
We often judge the methods after result, and forget the most important factor, which is luck.
It is so simple as we win if the numbers bet shows.
Some can be lucky for very long time, even if the chance is a few parts of a million, it will happen.
I saw on the statistics for a on line casino it was millions of request to the servers in just one day, and a spin would be about a few requests. (to demo page roulette 46% of the requests) Among all that game it is losers and winners, some big some small, some winning often, some just lose.
Payouts of 5000 and more are routine on those casinos.
The myth which says you can win all the time with a system, is just not true, one can be better than other, but winning needs luck.
Some methods, which is easy to find is GF, will work or not, depending of the numbers shown, so
they are at least not worse than many "scientific" methods. Some add more fun to the game, which is not negligible.
Sometimes I got the impression, many contribute here are not playing very much comparing to research and run big quantity's of numbers trough testing software. As we know it is still to find
methods lasting millions of spins, the testing may go forever.
So who is right? How we messure? Using tests or play?
I have played roulette for quite awhile and have tested many methods and played a few. Yes. I believe you need long term winning methods in order to beat roulette. But I also believe it becomes much more involved than a winning method or a series of winning methods strung together as the original question was posed.
We control when we bet and how much we bet along with when to leave. No one (in a fair game) controls where the ball lands.
I think the basis for a "winning method" comes down to tactics and strategy...read that as discipline and bet selection, in conjunction with, a few methods that are easily tracked and played concurrently. Playing one method at a time opens you up to a huge downside risk...if that method doesn't play into the spins...you are busted.
If you use proper bankroll management, use methods that have slight progressions with judicious stop-loss points and have methods that generally win you then have a fairly stable and long term winning method by using 3 or 4 methods at the same time.
We have all sat at the table and watched people come and win huge with no apparent rhyme or reason to their bet selection and then give it all back...because of the lack of a strategy and winning tactics. We've also seen people just straight out lose from spin one $100, $200, $1000...pick your number but I have literally sat at a table for hours and have been up or down based on the waves that are inherent with the game while watching literally 50 or more players come and drop every dollar they played. That's not to say that I haven't gone bust as they have...it's part of the game...it's a risk we all take. But how do some players stay at the table while others are wiped out in less than an hour on a consistent basis?
I certainly don't have all the answers but with years of playing I would say a winning method is based on several fundamentals
1. Don't set a time limit on your session
2. Look at the game as a job and study it...do your homework and apply it
You get out of it what you put into it. If you are reading a forum you are likely on the right path and ahead of 98% of players already.
3. If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
4. Use progressions that make sense and have stop-losses or caps so you don't get wiped out on a few spins...live to play another day
If you have good bet selection you should be almost solid on a flat-bet basis. The mild progression lets you turn sessions into small profits that would have met stop-losses on a flat basis
5. Play at least three systems concurrently
If you have three systems that are easy to track and play and generally win more than they lose...I believe you have a basis you can build on. If you have good bet selection you can play 3 or 4 methods at the same time and generally only be placing one or two bets because most good bet selections (for me anyways) don't have you betting every single spin...many have a trigger you are waiting quite awhile on and then you play for the first or second win and then you have some more downtime for that particular method.
6. Don't get greedy
You don't get rich overnight...but you can go broke in a few spins. Get rich slow and systematically...Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole....Patience
Break your bank into 10 or 12 sessions and look at realistic session gains...if you are winning and over your goal...play with casino money back down to your win goal if you are feeling lucky and have the discipline to walk away if you lose back to your win goal. If you have a bankroll of say $3000 go with 250 single dollar chips per session. 250 units per session lets you ride out a couple losing waves without creating too much anxiety and if you can win 80-100 units off of 250 in a session call it good and go grab a bite to eat...come back in an hour and reboot with another 250 session.
Regarding #5
I generally play methods that require a small amount of numbers so that I can use a limited progression and have a decent strike rate based on bet selection...sometimes dozens or streets can be played into this. I know many players like to play alot of numbers and have success with their methods...it just seems awfully difficult to get back out of a hole when playing a ton of numbers...and depending on the venue and spin rate, tracking and placing bets sometimes becomes problematic. Patience and greed become issues and players I observe try to get themselves out of a hole too quick if they get behind or get frustrated because they are too hurried. Just an observation
I do believe wholeheartedly that we need a long term winning method to beat roulette...but it is more than a single bet selection process played into oblivion. Treat it like a business and have a complete approach and stick to it....use conservative bankroll management...if your system is solid the bank will grow and you will be able to build your unit size. Don't get overconfident and risk too much of your total bankroll in a single session or two let a couple bad runs take everything you've built.
My two cents...for what it's worth
Quote from: rouletteKEY on Nov 05, 01:24 PM 2012
I have played roulette for quite awhile and have tested many methods and played a few. Yes. I believe you need long term winning methods in order to beat roulette. But I also believe it becomes much more involved than a winning method or a series of winning methods strung together as the original question was posed.
We control when we bet and how much we bet along with when to leave. No one (in a fair game) controls where the ball lands.
I think the basis for a "winning method" comes down to tactics and strategy...read that as discipline and bet selection, in conjunction with, a few methods that are easily tracked and played concurrently. Playing one method at a time opens you up to a huge downside risk...if that method doesn't play into the spins...you are busted.
If you use proper bankroll management, use methods that have slight progressions with judicious stop-loss points and have methods that generally win you then have a fairly stable and long term winning method by using 3 or 4 methods at the same time.
We have all sat at the table and watched people come and win huge with no apparent rhyme or reason to their bet selection and then give it all back...because of the lack of a strategy and winning tactics. We've also seen people just straight out lose from spin one $100, $200, $1000...pick your number but I have literally sat at a table for hours and have been up or down based on the waves that are inherent with the game while watching literally 50 or more players come and drop every dollar they played. That's not to say that I haven't gone bust as they have...it's part of the game...it's a risk we all take. But how do some players stay at the table while others are wiped out in less than an hour on a consistent basis?
I certainly don't have all the answers but with years of playing I would say a winning method is based on several fundamentals
1. Don't set a time limit on your session
2. Look at the game as a job and study it...do your homework and apply it
You get out of it what you put into it. If you are reading a forum you are likely on the right path and ahead of 98% of players already.
3. If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
4. Use progressions that make sense and have stop-losses or caps so you don't get wiped out on a few spins...live to play another day
If you have good bet selection you should be almost solid on a flat-bet basis. The mild progression lets you turn sessions into small profits that would have met stop-losses on a flat basis
5. Play at least three systems concurrently
If you have three systems that are easy to track and play and generally win more than they lose...I believe you have a basis you can build on. If you have good bet selection you can play 3 or 4 methods at the same time and generally only be placing one or two bets because most good bet selections (for me anyways) don't have you betting every single spin...many have a trigger you are waiting quite awhile on and then you play for the first or second win and then you have some more downtime for that particular method.
6. Don't get greedy
You don't get rich overnight...but you can go broke in a few spins. Get rich slow and systematically...Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole....Patience
Break your bank into 10 or 12 sessions and look at realistic session gains...if you are winning and over your goal...play with casino money back down to your win goal if you are feeling lucky and have the discipline to walk away if you lose back to your win goal. If you have a bankroll of say $3000 go with 250 single dollar chips per session. 250 units per session lets you ride out a couple losing waves without creating too much anxiety and if you can win 80-100 units off of 250 in a session call it good and go grab a bite to eat...come back in an hour and reboot with another 250 session.
Regarding #5
I generally play methods that require a small amount of numbers so that I can use a limited progression and have a decent strike rate based on bet selection...sometimes dozens or streets can be played into this. I know many players like to play a lot of numbers and have success with their methods...it just seems awfully difficult to get back out of a hole when playing a ton of numbers...and depending on the venue and spin rate, tracking and placing bets sometimes becomes problematic. Patience and greed become issues and players I observe try to get themselves out of a hole too quick if they get behind or get frustrated because they are too hurried. Just an observation
I do believe wholeheartedly that we need a long term winning method to beat roulette...but it is more than a single bet selection process played into oblivion. Treat it like a business and have a complete approach and stick to it....use conservative bankroll management...if your system is solid the bank will grow and you will be able to build your unit size. Don't get overconfident and risk too much of your total bankroll in a single session or two let a couple bad runs take everything you've built.
My two cents...for what it's worth
This is common sense post and you can't argue with it.
bob.
Quote from: rouletteKEY on Nov 05, 01:24 PM 2012
I have played roulette for quite awhile and have tested many methods and played a few. Yes. I believe you need long term winning methods in order to beat roulette. But I also believe it becomes much more involved than a winning method or a series of winning methods strung together as the original question was posed.
We control when we bet and how much we bet along with when to leave. No one (in a fair game) controls where the ball lands.
I think the basis for a "winning method" comes down to tactics and strategy...read that as discipline and bet selection, in conjunction with, a few methods that are easily tracked and played concurrently. Playing one method at a time opens you up to a huge downside risk...if that method doesn't play into the spins...you are busted.
If you use proper bankroll management, use methods that have slight progressions with judicious stop-loss points and have methods that generally win you then have a fairly stable and long term winning method by using 3 or 4 methods at the same time.
We have all sat at the table and watched people come and win huge with no apparent rhyme or reason to their bet selection and then give it all back...because of the lack of a strategy and winning tactics. We've also seen people just straight out lose from spin one $100, $200, $1000...pick your number but I have literally sat at a table for hours and have been up or down based on the waves that are inherent with the game while watching literally 50 or more players come and drop every dollar they played. That's not to say that I haven't gone bust as they have...it's part of the game...it's a risk we all take. But how do some players stay at the table while others are wiped out in less than an hour on a consistent basis?
I certainly don't have all the answers but with years of playing I would say a winning method is based on several fundamentals
1. Don't set a time limit on your session
2. Look at the game as a job and study it...do your homework and apply it
You get out of it what you put into it. If you are reading a forum you are likely on the right path and ahead of 98% of players already.
3. If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
4. Use progressions that make sense and have stop-losses or caps so you don't get wiped out on a few spins...live to play another day
If you have good bet selection you should be almost solid on a flat-bet basis. The mild progression lets you turn sessions into small profits that would have met stop-losses on a flat basis
5. Play at least three systems concurrently
If you have three systems that are easy to track and play and generally win more than they lose...I believe you have a basis you can build on. If you have good bet selection you can play 3 or 4 methods at the same time and generally only be placing one or two bets because most good bet selections (for me anyways) don't have you betting every single spin...many have a trigger you are waiting quite awhile on and then you play for the first or second win and then you have some more downtime for that particular method.
6. Don't get greedy
You don't get rich overnight...but you can go broke in a few spins. Get rich slow and systematically...Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole....Patience
Break your bank into 10 or 12 sessions and look at realistic session gains...if you are winning and over your goal...play with casino money back down to your win goal if you are feeling lucky and have the discipline to walk away if you lose back to your win goal. If you have a bankroll of say $3000 go with 250 single dollar chips per session. 250 units per session lets you ride out a couple losing waves without creating too much anxiety and if you can win 80-100 units off of 250 in a session call it good and go grab a bite to eat...come back in an hour and reboot with another 250 session.
Regarding #5
I generally play methods that require a small amount of numbers so that I can use a limited progression and have a decent strike rate based on bet selection...sometimes dozens or streets can be played into this. I know many players like to play a lot of numbers and have success with their methods...it just seems awfully difficult to get back out of a hole when playing a ton of numbers...and depending on the venue and spin rate, tracking and placing bets sometimes becomes problematic. Patience and greed become issues and players I observe try to get themselves out of a hole too quick if they get behind or get frustrated because they are too hurried. Just an observation
I do believe wholeheartedly that we need a long term winning method to beat roulette...but it is more than a single bet selection process played into oblivion. Treat it like a business and have a complete approach and stick to it....use conservative bankroll management...if your system is solid the bank will grow and you will be able to build your unit size. Don't get overconfident and risk too much of your total bankroll in a single session or two let a couple bad runs take everything you've built.
My two cents...for what it's worth
This is all gambling fallacy.
and this one is best:
If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
;D ;D ;D
Speed,
Sorry to have offended your analytical side...maybe I should have expanded on that thought to properly portray what I was trying to express
Nearly every time I have lost some big money I saw it coming and stayed in the bet...conversely on big wins...I never had that impending feeling of doom or generally speaking I didn't have that high level of anxiety when pushing out a pile of chips several spins before a large bet culminated in a win. Hey it's just a feeling that sometimes hits and generally when I used to let it play out...I lost...I obviously try to minimize losing so if I have a bad feeling, tired, can't concentrate, etc. I bail out before bad things happen.
What's the worst that happens... I make no bets, my numbers come in and I don't win money? There are alot of worse outcomes than that...I'll play my methods later when I am more comfortable and confident and I may still lose...but when I feel it coming and stay in the bets...that's my fault.
It's just business (roulette) and the most powerful concept in business is that of compounding interest or in roulette's case compounding returns. You can't build by losing... and if you have a bad feeling...whether that be because you are too tired, player distracts you from concentrating or you just can't get comfortable in your game play...the bottom line is...you will likely lose and should leave before that happens....that's my opinion. Maybe I'm the only person that ever felt a loss coming and played on...but I doubt it.
Obviously you disagree and I put myself out there by making the post. Guess we just have to agree to disagree on this
Roulette key
I will start by saying i am no expert but I have a view.
I think Speeds point is based strongly against HAR. HAR is where your system is a sine wave. You jump off when you "feel its going against you" or "are pushing your luck". A system technically should be at worst an upwardly mobile sawtooth, at best x=y. I havnt seen either.
I've run 100's of systems coded into RX for 100s of spins. They all do the same thing. Some actuals make it do holy grail things. Some actuals make it crash and burn. Every single coded system i have tested does the same thing. perhaps I am an id.ot who doesn't know what he is doing, but I think i have gained this view by my own experimentation and testing.
How can you leave a game +2u then come back later and continue be any different than never leaving the table? A random number has no relation to the last, the 10th last, the next or the 10th next. that's what i don't get about HAR.
What are people running from with HAR? A bad system?
Thing is, If i go the the casino with my wife and at 10'oclock she says, come on, lets finish up and I'm 15u up, and i leave with that 15u, have I exercised hit and run?
Do I come back next week and say...right, i was 15u up and when i left, i had 1 more step down on a progression, so I must finish that progression.....or do i start a fresh, after all, there is no difference between the next number I missed when i left the casino, and the 1st number I see next week.....is there?
I just think that if someone has a bad feeling before the losing streak he has a power that is unknown to the human race. If someone really has that power, then he does not need any system . I must to admit that I do not possess such power. ;D
Turner , you are right. Test this if u wish: when STD is more then 3.0 start bet with positive labouchere on EC to deviation go to normal until You have win goal
I've decided you need at least 13 long-term winning methods--seamless and very quick to employ. Have four system in play (or at least tracking), and play three systems virtually
(if you can) as you play one system with chips. This way if one of the virtuals looks better that the system actually being played you can immediately switch to that system.
Above all things, two things: 1) come expecting to win a good profit 2) have a rigid stoploss if the betting doesn't go well.
"Maybe I'm the only person that ever felt a loss coming and played on...but I doubt it."
KEY
You are not! I, too, have done just what you describe.
There are times when I have sat down at the computer and just felt it was wrong. I can't say why. On those days I usually lose.
I don't think we know all there is to know about a human being. I don't think we ever will.
Good posts, Ralph, Key, Turner, Proof.
Speed.........
While I disagree with a lot you say, I sure enjoy reading your posts. You are like the while lines down the highway; you keep us in our lane.
TCS
Quote from: speed on Nov 05, 06:42 PM 2012
I just think that if someone has a bad feeling before the losing streak he has a power that is unknown to the human race. If someone really has that power, then he does not need any system . I must to admit that I do not possess such power. ;D
Turner , you are right. Test this if u wish: when STD is more then 3.0 start bet with positive labouchere on EC to deviation go to normal until You have win goal
Yeah Speed
Only approach that i saw pass 1M spins but im aware that it was just still a dumb luck. I bet that almost everybody that saw it would start playing it considering it a H.G ;D And guess what would have happened? Its that most people here are ignorant of basic facts and once you start pointing them out either you are ignored or branded a negativity spreader.
Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulette?
Before answering this, we need to understand the term "long term winner". If it means a system that wins at last and balance keeps growing gradually session by session, day by day, of course we need to play only that which can win in long term. If we talk of a method that wins every session, it is just not possible.
If we are not targeting profit at last, why are we playing it at all?
Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulette?
Before answering this, we need to understand the term "long term winner". If it means a system that wins at last and balance keeps growing gradually session by session, day by day, of course we need to play only that which can win in long term. If we talk of a method that wins every session, it is just not possible.
If we are not targeting profit at last, why are we playing it at all?
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Nov 06, 02:33 AM 2012
Yeah Speed
Only approach that i saw pass 1M spins but I'm aware that it was just still a dumb luck. I bet that almost everybody that saw it would start playing it considering it a H.G ;D And guess what would have happened? Its that most people here are ignorant of basic facts and once you start pointing them out either you are ignored or branded a negativity spreader.
i think this deviation + positive progression have room for refinement and modification, and milions spins cant be luck. The major problem of this is that it is not playable because there are some big downs in the bank. Yes this forum is full of gamblers who will never accept the basic facts and how to accept when even moderator expanding gambling fallacy. Another problem are these self-proclaimed winners. Generally there are several people here for serious discussion.
Because of all this, this forum only can serves as like a reading of some humorous newspaper.
sorry, believing in deviation and progression as a way to win is not fallacy? it is.
and u start this song "mod should think that and should not think this" again. And then tell
me again about me being obsessed with u.
Mod am i or not -- does not matter. There are 2 points of view -- yours and mine. For me your point of view is a fallacy, for you mine. Fine. Now mod i am or not mod -- does not matter when i give my opinion as a forum member. We should respect each other and not touch personalities like u like to do. Your problem is that u make discussing roulette always personal. For u it is always "a battle", "casino promoters", "mod must think like that and think not like this". This is not about roulette, speed. Learn to concentrate on roulette, not on forum members whose opinion about roulette u don't like.
and then learn another thing. When u hope to defeat a game which is mathematically undefeatable, when u start doing it, your point of view ANYONE can declare a fallacy.
It is not like i am talking fallacies and u r not. We are both here doing it from mathematical point of view.
But the difference between us is simple.
I say You can't defeat roulette continously on a long run (only winning from time to time is your hope, like pros do it on short runs). That's what math and theory of probability says -- u can't win on long run. Now u say that with deviation and progression You can defeat roulette continously on long run. (then u add that it is not playable because of large downdraws).
Buddy, your logic is not far away from newbies which hope to defeat roulette with red-black and martingale...And u still talk fallacies. It is ridiculous.
i don't know why i am still waisting my time with u....
... MOD, just let me know when you finish a book about me, I think I'll get there in time to take your signature O0
speed, u love attention, that's why u start it with me again.
That's OK. Finally i will lose interest and ignore u. yeah i will write a book about u.
But it is not gonna be on a book paper and with ink.
Rob, u together with somebody else have fallen into a trap of classical Gambler's Fallacy. What u both are talking about is exactly the Gambler Fallacy. Just read about it
link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy (link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy)
i know it became a fashion among some guys here just bluntly blaming anyone-- who does not agree with their views-- in "spreading gambler fallacies" without any proof, but this very thing is well known and well defined. It does not even need any discussions. Period.
u r free of course to go on with your ideas about betting against "deviations", but this is just like betting cold with progression, not much difference. Thousands and thousands gamblers before u tried to do it with no success for hundreds years. Good luck.
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Nov 06, 02:33 AM 2012
Yeah Speed
Only approach that i saw pass 1M spins but I'm aware that it was just still a dumb luck. I bet that almost everybody that saw it would start playing it considering it a H.G ;D And guess what would have happened? Its that most people here are ignorant of basic facts and once you start pointing them out either you are ignored or branded a negativity spreader.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 10, 04:39 PM 2012
Rob, u together with somebody else have fallen into a trap of classical Gambler's Fallacy. What u both are talking about is exactly the Gambler Fallacy. Just read about itlink:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy (link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy)i know it became a fashion among some guys here just bluntly blaming anyone-- who does not agree with their views-- in "spreading gambler fallacies" without any proof, but this very thing is well known and well defined. It does not even need any discussions. Period. u r free of course to go on with your ideas about betting against "deviations", but this is just like betting cold with progression, not much difference. Thousands and thousands gamblers before u tried to do it with no success for hundreds years. Good luck.
Iggiv
This stuff i read in the elementary school ;D And i would still prefer to bet as you call it against deviations than to use HAR. I wish that somebody that you accept as an authority posted a thesis about HAR fallacy. For now we have some success stories as Mr Pilot's fairytale French run that gave some hope that HAR works.
Regards
i am not here to argue for arguing sake. Do what u like to do, i can accept hit-n-run as gambler fallacy and betting on cold with progression as winning method. Who cares about wiki, J. Patrick,
B. Morton and Lee Tutor. U guys know better.
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 11, 03:52 AM 2012
i am not here to argue for arguing sake. Do what u like to do, i can accept hit-n-run as gambler fallacy and betting on cold with progression as winning method. Who cares about wiki, J. Patrick,
B. Morton and Lee Tutor. U guys know better.
There is a difference of opinions here, that's it. No more than that. It is not "70 bets in a row". It is 70 bets played from time to time. For u it is the same. But sorry, You can't say that John is lying.
If he is lying then You can blame for the same lies John Patrick, Lee Tutor, Brett Morton. Those are people well known in gambling world, and they do just what John L. does. They just use their methods which are well known unlike JL' methods. But they play the same way he does. Would they be surprised with JL results? no way, because their results are similar overall.
It beats me why you keep mentioning these guys and why you claim that their results are similar to JL. And just prove that im wrong about questioning JL stats. I guess that getting LLLW sequence 70 times in a row seems quite normal to you. ;D
Regards
Rob, i would better do something more useful than just fruitless arguing if u don't mind. thanks.
Believe me i have more interesting things to do.
I wish u to defeat roulette as gloriously as u defeated me in these endless arguments.
Do widzenija
:)
Quote from: iggiv on Nov 11, 08:39 AM 2012
Rob, i would better do something more useful than just fruitless arguing if u don't mind. thanks.
Believe me i have more interesting things to do.
I wish u to defeat roulette as gloriously as u defeated me in these endless arguments.
Do widzenija
:)
Iggiv
I enjoy arguing with you almost as much as with JL. But he is gone at least temporarily so you sort of filled the void. ;D And lets call it a draw.
Do widzenia i uslyszenia
Regards
Rob, my goal here is not arguing for arguing sake as i said. I have been arguing to find out the truth, which is out there. To push u towards some useful ideas. But i can see the dead end now, my friend. That's why i am stopping arguing. It comes to nowhere.
Vic once said very smart thing to me. "To win you don't have to prove anyone anything but yourself".
That's it.
I believe i know what to do, i also believe u don't. Arguments are not gonna help.