Topic split from Jordan's [urllink:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/a-question-for-the-members-that-are-coding-systems/]A question for the members that are coding systems.[/url]
Jordan, I'm afraid the coders around aren't too much on the free-to-code side.
Thomas is recovering and I'm busy with other projects.
At this particular moment in time, my advice is: learning to program isn't that hard ;)
Quote from: VLS on Aug 29, 12:01 PM 2010
Jordan, I'm afraid the coders around aren't too much on the free-to-code side.
Thomas is recovering and I'm busy with other projects.
At this particular moment in time, my advice is: learning to program isn't that hard ;)
Yep, I'd have to agree with that statement.
If I can learn to code in pascal.
Then anyone can.
Of course pascal is not the only coding language.
There is basic, c++ and others.
Coding for roulette is limited to a few individuals.
It is a very small, small % of people that can code for roulette.
That is why there isn't much software out there that can play roulette.
You may find a few in clickbank market place.
Or have a look in youtube.
So far, there is only one person that can code any system.
Get his software to play on any casino.
And that person is Tiago.
Putting Roulette and coding together.
You really have to be commended for your passion.
I try to put the two together.
But I am just a beginner.
Victor would be my next choice.
Quote from: ThomasGrant on Sep 01, 10:22 AM 2010
Yep, I'd have to agree with that statement.
If I can learn to code in pascal.
Then anyone can.
Absolutely.
Programming with the right language is easy... but just like everything, it takes practice.
I commend you for sticking to PASCAL, you wouldn't like to start with WIN32 Assembler just to create a textbox that displays roulette numbers.
Quote from: ThomasGrant on Sep 01, 10:22 AM 2010Of course pascal is not the only coding language.
There is basic, c++ and others.
For beginners there's nothing better than BASIC. (the "B" from basic means that:
Beginner's
All-purpose
Symbolic
Instruction
Code.
The learning curve from zero to making your first useful program is faster in BASIC than with any other programming I know of. This motivates learners to continue; seeing results.
If you have to spend too much time to make even the smallest window proggie, then chances are you will not get motivated.
Instant gratification is a powerful motivator. It is exciting to jam some simpler lines of code and getting your first results delivered :)
Quote from: ThomasGrant on Sep 01, 10:22 AM 2010
Putting Roulette and coding together.
You really have to be commended for your passion.
Become a programmer and understand the conceptsof programming first, then once you are a programmer you can take on programming for roulette :)
What you need is to focus in a multi-purpose programming language. It pays.
For instance, PASCAL and BASIC are the first choice for someone who wants to learn about programming, BASIC is powerful enough (in its .NET version) to be head-to-head with the
big guys. Visual Basic.NET *
is* a "Big guy" itself and Microsoft wouldn't cut support for it, despite of the stigma attached to "BASIC programmers".
Why the stigma? just because BASIC offers a lot of "shortcuts" in exchange of giving up on a layer of control to the compiler and hence it sounds like BASIC programmers have no level. Imagine a language named "CRAPPY", then all of its users would be "Crappy programmers" sort of like that.
Some C# (C-sharp) guy told once: what would you like to be know as, as a BASIC programmer or as a SHARP programmer. The all-time "my penis is bigger than yours" complex!
There are bad programmers using very bad programming practices even in the most elitist of the languages, and very good and proficient programmers in the "worst" ones. This is more related to the human aspect than anything.
...the next language from microsoft could as well be named "ELITE" so all the users (even the worst ones) are "ELITE programmers" :D
Ok, rant over!
The gist you have to take from this post is this: for becoming a roulette programmer you must become a PROGRAMMER first, and then you can do roulette programs. Stick to a language offering multi-purpose syntax and don't limit yourself to just "roulette"... have roulette programing just as another one of your programming skills :)
Regards.
Hello Victor
I want to learn coding for so long, but never knew where to start
Can you please indicate me some program to start and some tutorials?
Thanks in advance
Regards,
Afonso
Hello dear Alfonso, what are your coding goals?
Do you want to make your own roulette testers or do you want to become a multi-purpose programmer? (This makes a big difference in choosing where to start!)
Yes, you're better off learning a general purpose programming language rather than something like RX. BASIC is a good choice for a beginner, and there are some quite powerful ones around available free.
But it's important that there's good documentation and tutorials, so I would avoid anything that's too "esoteric", even if it happens to be a good programming language. Something that's been around for a while and has a large user base means that if you get stuck, there are more people to help.
A list of the most popular programming languages can be found here (link:://:.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html).
Interesting to see that C is still way up there. I remember 15 years ago when I was looking for some advice on which programming language to learn, I was told that C is "dead". :-X
Even though it's a great language and very powerful, I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner (nor Java or C++).
Quote from: Bayes on Sep 01, 02:53 PM 2010
[...]it's important that there's good documentation and tutorials, so I would avoid anything that's too "esoteric", even if it happens to be a good programming language. Something that's been around for a while and has a large user base means that if you get stuck, there are more people to help.
BASIC's core syntax has been around since
May 1, 1964 (link:://:.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/04/dayintech_0501).
If it has stuck for more than
4 and a half decades there must be something to it :)
Of course, as with any other programming language it comes in "flavors" (i.e. c/c++/c# or Pascal/Delphi... in BASIC's's case you have legacy BASIC, Visual Basic and Visual Basic.NET -among others).
If you want to develop GUI (Graphical User Interface) programs -i.e. everything as seen in windows- your best bet for a flavor of basic in 2010 is to go Visual Basic.NET
You can have the express version for free directly from Microsoft.
link:://:.microsoft.com/express/windows/ (link:://:.microsoft.com/express/windows/) (free LIVE id required to validate your copy)
As for tutorials, you best bet is to start googling consice, precise questions.
For instance, if you want to display a message in Visua Basic .NET (VB.NET for short), you google:
"how to show a message in VB.NET (link:://:.google.com/search?hl=en&q=how+to+show+a+message+in+VB.NET)"
if you want to read a file, you ask
"how to read a file in VB.NET (link:://:.google.com/search?hl=en&q=how+to+read+a+file+in+VB.NET)"
and so on.
Of course, you must have a starting point!
For a great tutorial Mr. Google advices (link:://:.google.com/search?hl=en&q=learn+visual+basic+.net):
link:://:.homeandlearn.co.uk/net/vbnet.html (link:://:.homeandlearn.co.uk/net/vbnet.html)
and certainly the official guide from Microsoft:
link:://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/ms789086.aspx (link:://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vbasic/ms789086.aspx)
Happy coding! (Even if it's just a message box ;))
It does not matter what you start with, it might be C/C++, Visual Basic (it has nothing in common with a BASIC from old days, just a name), C#, Java, VBA, maybe HTML+PHP+javascript for web applications.
C/C++:
Fast code, good when you need some fast computations, like neural networks, used for programming operating systems, computer games and libraries (.dll, .so) which are then used by other applications. C is available on any platform, including embedded devices or even chips. If you learned C, you can do anything. It is not that difficult, most of it is no different from other languages. If you ever want to create a roulette computer, you should learn this (and assembler later). You can buy ATMega8 chip for say 4$/3EUR, solder it's pins with wires to parallel port, connect it to computer and load a program written in C into it. You have to buy suitable version which have embedded programming chip. This is very cheap, and you do not have to buy anything else. All it needs is a 5V battery, you have to force it to be stable, so a converter from 9V battery is needed, but it is simple, cost is cheap, just little soldering. I have played with that a few years back, I have been trying to make a simple robot, I did not make it though. I believe that roulette computer would be more simple and cheaper, when it comes to an interface, just some buttons and signals. C++ is like an extension to C, you do not have to use objects and difficult stuff, but STL containers come handy. There is a catch with pointers and memory allocation. Compiler is free, use gcc, in Windows you might use mingw, or several free compilers. It is little more difficult, but if you want to start simple, download Dev-CPP.
JAVA: at first sight the code looks like that of C++ or C#, the advantage is it is multiplatform, the applications run in Windows, MAC OS X, Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris. You can program applications for cell phones in Java, so if you plan to program your system into a phone, then it is the best language, even better than C, because not every phone would allow you to install compiled executable, but you can send java application with bluetooth into it. It would work also on Android and iPad/iPod and tablets with Windows. Java is slower when it comes to computations, but today computers are so fast that it does not matter. You can also create java applet. Tools for programming are free, you can download IDE (integrated development environment) like NetBeans or Eclipse.
Visual Basic .NET and C#:
It does not matter which one you choose, C# is better if you do not like writing, the code is more compact. .NET libraries are same for both. It is not much different from Java, but it is better integrated with MS Windows and MS Office. If you don't use some special gui or functions, C# is also multiplatform, can be run with Mono in other systems. If you ever wanted to sell your applications, you have to buy MS Visual Studio, but you can also use free and lightweight Sharp Develop, if you use some unix system then Mono Develop.
VBA - Visual Basic for Applications: it is embedded in MS Office / Excel for writing macros, and for needs of roulette programming it should be enough, Excel have also some advantage for this type of task. Disadvantage - not multipurpose language, just for Excel. If you don't have MS Office, you can download Go Open Office from Novell, it is said it have quite good support for VB macros.
HTML+PHP+javascipt - you can create your own web page, the computation can be either java applet or javascript, if it is simple than you can do that even in PHP. If you want to create an application which can be simply put on internet, this is the way to go. You get all the tools for free - Apache, PHP, text editor (kate, Windows users might use PSPad), maybe MySQL to have all what is needed. The advantage in learning this is obvious - you can make simply application for several users, include phpbb forum and there is a lot of free stuff. Then you copy your page to some free webhosting, and it is done.
For normal users who do not compute some algorithms for Markov decisions problems, neural networks and such, any language will do the job.
Hi,
I agree with Victor's remarks about BASIC.
I can recommend a VERY GOOD and *free* BASIC language called:
thinBASIC : the automation script language.
link:://:.thinbasic.com/ (link:://:.thinbasic.com/)
Comes complete with many demos and a help file, and they have an excellent forum and user group.
It's only about 11mb download.
A.
Is Thinbasic some favor VB .NET? The only reason why to choose VB .NET is .NET, a lot of libraries with many thing already done, ready to be used. Why not rather go with mainstream and use C#?
link:://:.icsharpcode.net/opensource/sd/ (link:://:.icsharpcode.net/opensource/sd/)
It is also small, and powerful enough.
Well, that Thinbasic is not just an IDE for VB .NET like Sharp Develop is for C#, they have their own Basic, hmm, I can't say it would be good or bad, bad that is not definitely mainstream.
Hi Mr Ore,
Some more info here:
link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinBasic (link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinBasic)
A.
Quote from: VLS on Sep 01, 02:45 PM 2010
Hello dear Alfonso, what are your coding goals?
Do you want to make your own roulette testers or do you want to become a multi-purpose programmer? (This makes a big difference in choosing where to start!)
I want to code just for roulette propose
For making tests and stuff like that.
After that, maybe later, making my own bot for casino :)
What program you advice me?
Best regards,
Afonso
Roulette Xtreme, maybe?
link:://uxsoftware.com/pages/index.html (link:://uxsoftware.com/pages/index.html)
A.
Thinbasic:
License Freeware / Proprietary
I would not recommend learning language with proprietary license, which is not either backed by a big company or open source community. Well, it seems small, so it does not matter. The disadvantage there is that you can't know, that after five years you would still be using it. With general purpose mainstream language you can be pretty sure of your time investment.
On the other hand, it cannot hurt, I have also had to play with languages like lisp, awk, bash, python, even prolog or squeak. You just don't stay with them. That thinbasic is at least able to use dlls and COM objects, so it can be used to some extend, but anything today can call functions from dll, even assembler. Would not be still better learn C# or Java? I do not use it, I program in C++, but if I wanted to do GUI applications quickly, than those two are good choice (or learn QT, if you know C++).
You should read this thread on VLS:
link:://vlsroulette.com/roulette-coding-zone/making-an-exe/ (link:://vlsroulette.com/roulette-coding-zone/making-an-exe/)
it is dealing with the same problem like this one.
Rather than Thinbasic, this another basic seems better for the purposes of roulette programming: link:://:.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml (link:://:.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml)
AutoIt v3 is a freeware BASIC-like scripting language designed for automating the Windows GUI and general scripting. It uses a combination of simulated keystrokes, mouse movement and window/control manipulation in order to automate tasks in a way not possible or reliable with other languages (e.g. VBScript and SendKeys). AutoIt is also very small, self-contained and will run on all versions of Windows out-of-the-box with no annoying "runtimes" required!
It would be better for scripting a bot than Thinbasic.
Quote from: A3on on Sep 01, 04:24 PM 2010
I want to code just for roulette propose
[...]
What program you advice me?
Alfonso, use Visual Basic.NET and you wonââ,¬â,,¢t regret it.
Despite having the word ââ,¬Å"Basicââ,¬Â on its name, you can pretty much do everything in windows with it, including the ââ,¬Å"advancedââ,¬Â stuff.
For you to have an idea on how much it can do, only a few things C# can do that VB.NET canââ,¬â,,¢t (which the most people wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t miss at all).
I won't even go into the debate on which language is most powerful. Languages are tools; you can't use JavaScript for making an operative system, and you can't use Assembler for making a dynamic webpage. You must pick the right tool for the task according to the requirements, and in this case the requirements are:
- Free
- Widely supported
- Easy for beginners
And Visual Basic.NET fits.
If Alfonso would be asking what is the best language to get paid more as a profressional programmer in 2010 I would be recommending C# or any other of the "higher salary" languages, Java
et al, but right now we have a beginner who wants to make his first programs, let's let him do VB.NET :)
Free version of Visual Studio is on MS web, have not tested yet though, as a Linux user there is not much I can do.
link:://:.microsoft.com/express/windows/ (link:://:.microsoft.com/express/windows/)
Quote from: A3on on Sep 01, 02:33 PM 2010
Hello Victor
I want to learn coding for so long, but never knew where to start
Can you please indicate me some program to start and some tutorials?
Thanks in advance
Regards,
Afonso
Well, I did a few tutorials on RSS Pro.
That uses Pascal and Basic.
I sent Victor a copy.
He finally got it working.
Very easy to code in. RSS Pro.
Quote from: ThomasGrant on Sep 01, 07:38 PM 2010
Well, I did a few tutorials on RSS Pro.
That uses Pascal and Basic.
I sent Victor a copy.
He finally got it working.
Very easy to code in. RSS Pro.
Easy indeed, but it is propietary (that is the only major flaw I could find).
A very sweet and compact IDE, which deserves the "Thumbs up" :thumbsup:
RSS pro costs $100+ bucks. There are superior (and free) alternatives, yet -if you ask me- the RSS option is like a small mountain house where everything is handy because it is small and it's warm and cozy once you get used to it :)
Quote from: VLS on Sep 01, 07:43 PM 2010
A very sweet and compact IDE, which deserves the "Thumbs up" :thumbsup:
Plus it is fairly cheap.
Compared to other programming languages out there.
Apparently it only costs $150.
I think if you send an email to the admin.
And just ask for RSS Pro.
He may assist you.
Who knows.
link:://:.money-maker-machine.com/forum/index.php?referredby=73 (link:://:.money-maker-machine.com/forum/index.php?referredby=73)
Quote from: ThomasGrant on Sep 01, 07:51 PM 2010Plus it is fairly cheap.
Compared to other programming languages out there.
Apparently it only costs $150.
What do you mean by "compared to other programming languages out there"?
$150 is far from "cheap".
Another good thing about RSS Pro.
Is that it already has the commands to place bets and spin the wheel.
Take a look at just some of them.
This is only good for playtech.
Or you can get a version for RealTime Gaming.
Apparently he wants to bring out one for Live Tables.
But I have no idea when that will be.
Quote from: Mistarlupo on Sep 01, 08:03 PM 2010
What do you mean by "compared to other programming languages out there"?
$150 is far from "cheap".
Ohh...
Well, then I made a mistake then.
Not sure what other programming languages are out there and how much they cost.
Ok, I just did a search for Delphi.
link:://store.embarcadero.com/store?Action=DisplayCategoryProductListPage&SiteID=borland&Locale=en_AU&Env=BASE&categoryID=10742100 (link:://store.embarcadero.com/store?Action=DisplayCategoryProductListPage&SiteID=borland&Locale=en_AU&Env=BASE&categoryID=10742100)
Embarcadero RAD Studio XE Architect New User Download $5,589.00 AUD
So compared to Delphi.
I would say RSS Pro for $150 is very cheap indeed.
Hehe, Thomas, the problem is when compared to FREE [attachimg=#] [attachimg=#]
Well, I wouldn't recommend paying for a development suite. Especially beginners.
Every computer with Windows can legally download and install .NET redistributable or SDK, and then have command line compiler of C#, Visual Basic .NET and maybe few other tools. Anyone can download Visual Studio Express, or if he does not like, some lighter IDE like Sharp Develop. That is for free.
Anyone can download NetBeans and start programming in Java, even there is GUI designer, and you can create some application even without programming, well it would not do anything, only window with buttons and textboxes, but it is also free.
GCC compiler is also free for those who want program in C/C++, they can also use QT library for GUI, which Nokia finally released under LGPL license.
Very powerful combination Apache+PHP+MySQL is also free, and with a good text editor like kate or PSPad very comfortable.
Javascript works everywhere, in any browser.
There are many other free variants, like python, ruby, lua and so on. Well, lua is also recommended for beginners, it is free and often used as a scripting language for AI in computer games. It's license is free enough that you can include it into your proprietary code, so learing it is not a waste of time.
link:://:.lua.org/about.html (link:://:.lua.org/about.html)
Ahh free software.
Nice to have.
Sure free is good.
Just not as good as some of the things that you can pay for.
Well, that is just my opinion.
I don't know how to program in java.
I can do html. Taught my self.
What I meant to say is, that RSS Pro is affordable.
Cheap is the wrong word.
Affordable is a better word.
Another bonus, is that it is fairly easy to use.
But there are other software that can probably do something similar.
And for free. If you find something similar and for free.
Let me know.
The old maxim that "you get what you pay for" doesn't really fit regarding a lot of modern software. Some of the best software in the world is open source (and free). Think of Mac OSX (which is built on FreeBSD) and Linux (90% of the worlds supercomputers use it). Free programming languages like Python and Ruby are used by Google, NASA, even Microsoft.
QuoteThe main advantage for business is that open source is a good way for business to achieve greater penetration of the market. Companies that offer open source software are able to establish an industry standard and, thus, gain competitive advantage. It has also helped build developer loyalty as developers feel empowered and have a sense of ownership of the end product[31]. Moreover less costs of marketing and logistical services are needed for OSS. It also helps companies to keep abreast of all technology developments. It is a good tool to promote a company's image, including its commercial products[32]. The OSS development approach has helped produce reliable, high quality software quickly and inexpensively. Besides, it offers the potential for a more flexible technology and quicker innovation. It is said to be more reliable since it typically has thousands of independent programmers testing and fixing bugs of the software. It is flexible because modular systems allow programmers to build custom interfaces, or add new abilities to it and it is innovative since open source programs are the product of collaboration among a large number of different programmers. The mix of divergent perspectives, corporate objectives, and personal goals speeds up innovation[33]. Moreover free software can be developed in accord with purely technical requirements. It does not require to think about commercial pressure that often degrades the quality of the software. Commercial pressures make traditional software developers pay more attention to customers' requirements than to security requirements, since such features are somewhat invisible to the customer[34].
For a newbie, it would be crazy to pay for any programming language or IDE until you've discovered that you can actually do it. Statistics show that between 30% and 60% of students on CS courses fail their first programming course, and about 20% of people will NEVER "get it".
An advantage of something like Python is that it has an interactive mode. You can type instructions into the console and get immediate feedback. This is great for learning and just playing around with code to see what happens.
by the way, Python has nothing to do with the snake, the designer named it Python because he was a big fan of "Monty Python".
Do you have any links for Python?
Not monty python. But Python src or language.
I like Monty python to.
Download Python here - link:://:.python.org/ (link:://:.python.org/)
There are tutorials at the main site, but loads more around, just Google "python tutorial".
Hi Mr Ore,
I mentioned thinbasic because it's a free alternative. Victor was talking about BASIC languages and I know this is a good one. I've used AMOS and AmigaBasic on Amiga platform, Liberty Basic, IBasic and looked at others too.
I do not think I would use it though to code a roulette program - but that's not say it could not be done - It could.
But I've been using thinbasic for about 5 years on my personal free interactive fiction project for Windows:
link:://tab.thinbasic.com/ (link:://tab.thinbasic.com/)
Bye,
A.
Quote from: atlantis on Sep 02, 03:56 AM 2010
Hi Mr Ore,
I mentioned thinbasic because it's a free alternative. Victor was talking about BASIC languages and I know this is a good one. I've used AMOS and AmigaBasic on Amiga platform, Liberty Basic, IBasic and looked at others too.
I do not think I would use it though to code a roulette program - but that's not say it could not be done - It could.
But I've been using thinbasic for about 5 years on my personal free interactive fiction project for Windows:
link:://tab.thinbasic.com/ (link:://tab.thinbasic.com/)
Bye,
A.
Ohh my gosh.
Some one else that has an Amiga.
I had, as in past tense, an Amiga. Amiga 1000
Loved it.
Dpaint. CanDo
Quote from: Bayes on Sep 02, 03:56 AM 2010
Download Python here - link:://:.python.org/ (link:://:.python.org/)
There are tutorials at the main site, but loads more around, just Google "python tutorial".
Thanks...
Just had a look at the website.
Reading it.
Found out about Python 3.
Looked at the code.
QuotePrint Is A FunctionÃ,¶
The print statement has been replaced with a print() function, with keyword arguments to replace most of the special syntax of the old print statement (PEP 3105). Examples:
Old: print "The answer is", 2*2
New: print("The answer is", 2*2)
Old: print x, # Trailing comma suppresses newline
New: print(x, end=" ") # Appends a space instead of a newline
Old: print # Prints a newline
New: print() # You must call the function!
Old: print >>sys.stderr, "fatal error"
New: print("fatal error", file=sys.stderr)
Old: print (x, y) # prints repr((x, y))
New: print((x, y)) # Not the same as print(x, y)!
Looks just like pascal.
So I will stick with working with pascal for now.
There is a great deal of support for it on the net.
Thanks anyway.
Quote from: VLS on Sep 01, 05:26 PM 2010
Alfonso, use Visual Basic.NET and you wonââ,¬â,,¢t regret it.
Despite having the word ââ,¬Å"Basicââ,¬Â on its name, you can pretty much do everything in windows with it, including the ââ,¬Å"advancedââ,¬Â stuff.
For you to have an idea on how much it can do, only a few things C# can do that VB.NET canââ,¬â,,¢t (which the most people wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t miss at all).
I won't even go into the debate on which language is most powerful. Languages are tools; you can't use JavaScript for making an operative system, and you can't use Assembler for making a dynamic webpage. You must pick the right tool for the task according to the requirements, and in this case the requirements are:
- Free
- Widely supported
- Easy for beginners
And Visual Basic.NET fits.
If Alfonso would be asking what is the best language to get paid more as a profressional programmer in 2010 I would be recommending C# or any other of the "higher salary" languages, Java et al, but right now we have a beginner who wants to make his first programs, let's let him do VB.NET :)
Dear Victor, thanks for the usefull information :)
I think I will stick with visual basic then. I will download it and try to found some tutorials.
Maybe soon I can make my own roulette tests :thumbsup:
Really thanks
Best regards,
Afonso