This is an improved version of "The Juggler"
Flat betting only 5 numbers that hit three times.
The bet selection is same as "The Juggler" only difference you write them down in notepad, (7 numbers hit twice in 23 spin history). As soon as a third hit comes, you bet that number. So you make 2 notepads;
One for 7 numbers hit twice.
A second one for 5 numbers you're betting that hit three times (or more)
If you got 5 numbers in the betting notepad, and a number hits three times in the 7 number notepad you move the oldest number in the betting notpad to newest number in the 7 number notepad and add the new number hit 3 times to the newest in the betting notepad. Sounds complicated! But it's not! ;D
Rules are exactly the same for the 7 number notepad as "The Juggler" only you are not betting them, only when they hit a third time. Then you write them down in the betting notepad and the rules are the same with the betting notepad, you move each number hit to the newest etc...
Hope this can be understood, (it's not so complicated) When playing, don't forget to move the numbers hit the the newest in the betting notepad... The oldest in the betting notepad are moved to 7 number notepad and replaced by newer numbers hit three times. Only time a number is removed is when it's replaced by a newer number in the 7 number notepad.
This is a live session (real spins) etc:
Ignatus just look at my attachment...
So if number 20 hits third time (in my waiting room) i have to take it to my 5 betting numbers and my new 5 betting numbers looks: 16, 33, 12, 36,20 and waiting room looks: 1, 5, 9, 26, 8, 11, 4. Am i right?
Quote from: Smoczoor on Dec 14, 11:51 AM 2012
Ignatus just look at my attachment...
So if number 20 hits third time (in my waiting room) i have to take it to my 5 betting numbers and my new 5 betting numbers looks: 16, 33, 12, 36,20 and waiting room looks: 1, 5, 9, 26, 8, 11, 4. Am i right?
You got it right! Nice :)
Now stick with it a while. Don't come up with "The tight rope walker". Or "The knife thrower".
TwoCat, what about.... :thumbsup:
Kenny Rogers - The Gambler (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo#)
I wonder why everything goes straight to hell when I play live? When I demonstrated it all goes well? (it was real live spins!) :/
Was that a question you want answered, or a rhetorical question?
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 14, 04:27 PM 2012
Was that a question you want answered, or a rhetorical question?
Well, it didn't go
straight to hell, it was a neutral trend for 150 spins, guess I don't have the patience?.. :S
Look at Mr J's "Catch the 8 Train" and study it.
The normal progression of the path you are on will lead you to these same conclusions...it is a great method and you will still be betting on multiple numbers in many instances as they tend to cluster before one breaks out to take the lead as "the" hot number.
So in the interim you are betting on many numbers. Your strike-rate isn't as high...but we aren't playing for strike-rate we are playing for profit.
Give it a hard look and then think about the tweaks you need or want to make.
Even great methods have short term fluctuations in the negative and it's money management that will get you through the dips (stop-losses, times to increase or decrease your bets, etc.)
Nothing worth anything comes easy...patience is a virtue...and in this game it's almost a prerequisite if you truly want to be successful
Today Betfair live session result of Juggler 2
QuoteEven great methods have short term fluctuations in the negative and it's money management that will get you through the dips (stop-losses, times to increase or decrease your bets, etc.)
Nothing worth anything comes easy...patience is a virtue...and in this game it's almost a prerequisite if you truly want to be successful
I bow my head before you rouletteKEY!
Ignatus read Sun Tzu "The Art of War" :)
Quote from: Smoczoor on Dec 14, 04:36 PM 2012
Today Betfair live session result of Juggler 2
Smoczoor. NICE! ;D Now you're giving me hope again! Thanks alot!
ignatus
You've got a good idea. Don't give up on it.
Never jump into a live game after you see things have gone your way. "If only I had played..........." Chances are very good you will jump in right at the end of your system winning. Remember, the wheel is constantly changing its output. Your idea will start to hit again; you just have to be there when it does.
Keep working; you're doing us all a fine job. And thanks to Schmoozy, too.
Sam
Ir would be really nice if Juggler 2 had a tracker.
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 14, 04:18 PM 2012
I wonder why everything goes straight to hell when I play live? When I demonstrated it all goes well? (it was real live spins!) :/
I would normally give you my advice on your question, Ignatus....but you really don't listen. You don't want to listen for some reason.
I am not wasting time typing. Sounds nasty...but it isnt. I don't take it personally. You don't listen to anyone.
i have got better at roulette. I did it by listening. Talking advise.
Turner
Thanks Sam, I guess you're right :)
rouletteKEY. yes, I agree. I like "catch the 8 train"...problem with hotnumbers is the can fall asleep. I haven't played it so much but it reset after awhile? it's near perfection in that case. Because you cannot win on hotnumber for infinity, they stop hitting after awhile (that's my experience anyway) but reset after 8 hits etc and collecting new hotnumbers would work very well.
"The Juggler" try to catch "hotnumbers" in a flowing chart as they come (number hit 3 times...) I don't know how to perfect it more? Perhaps, increase the size of "waiting room" numbers hit 2 times or numbers moved to "waiting room" that has hit 3 times before. it's not good that some of those disappear. That's one idea. I'm not comparing "catch the 8 train" with Juggler. They work in different ways.
Proof. I have only very basic programming skills, using 2 notepads is not so hard? It CAN be stressful when you have little time betting and keeping track of everything ?
Quote from: Turner on Dec 14, 04:57 PM 2012
I would normally give you my advice on your question, Ignatus....but you really don't listen. You don't want to listen for some reason.
I am not wasting time typing. Sounds nasty...but it isnt. I don't take it personally. You don't listen to anyone.
i have got better at roulette. I did it by listening. Talking advise.
Turner
It's not true Turner. Ofcourse I listen. Juggler 2 came out of all critics some wishing to use less numbers. Also I wanted to use a tweak to increase the hitrate by betting numbers hit 3 times only.
That I have a bad patience playing live is another question? I wished to have immediate profits, but guess I must have more patience and do more spins...
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 14, 05:08 PM 2012
It's not true Turner. Ofcourse I listen. Juggler 2 came out of all critics some wishing to use less numbers. Also I wanted to use a tweak to increase the hitrate by betting numbers hit 3 times only.
That I have a bad patience playing live is another question? I wished to have immediate profits, but guess I must have more patience and do more spins...
Ok...but if you want immediate profits, you will crash and burn.
I am open to criticism by what i am about to say.....
There is only 1 roulette. its on a real wheel in a bonified licened Casino. It has a real person spinning. it will be a Huxley wheel. it will be a named Casino chain. This is where you aim your system at.
This produces real random roulette numbers. This is where the dreams of spin prediction computers come. This is where the dreams of VB and dealer signature come. This is real roulette. This is what we are trying to beat.
if you can't handle 40-50 spins per hour, you should be sat at the blackjack table.
Turner
Turner. Yes, you're right. I should have more patience.
I have given up playing on RNG roulette. All my testing is real spins, real wheels.
Smoczoor tested it on live wheel with good result. I had a "bad run" it was a neutral trend, I'm sure that would change with more spins.
I wish to change the rules as I said; Increase the size of the "waiting room" (numbers hit twice, and old numbers hit 3 times etc ) how much I'm not sure. Because these numbers can sleep and start hitting again etc.
Other ideas how to improve this method (if possible) are welcome. Main idea is to catch "hotnumbers" as they come
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 14, 05:54 PM 2012
Turner. Yes, you're right. I should have more patience.
I have given up playing on RNG roulette. All my testing is real spins, real wheels.
Smoczoor tested it on live wheel with good result. I had a "bad run" it was a neutral trend, I'm sure that would change with more spins.
I wish to change the rules as I said; Increase the size of the "waiting room" (numbers hit twice, and old numbers hit 3 times etc ) how much I'm not sure. Because these numbers can sleep and start hitting again etc.
Other ideas how to improve this method (if possible) are welcome. Main idea is to catch "hotnumbers" as they come
I enjoyed reading that....mainly because it would seem you may of listened a little.
Keep trying...the answers are coming
Turner
Turner. Thanks ;)
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 14, 05:02 PM 2012
Thanks Sam, I guess you're right :)
rouletteKEY. yes, I agree. I like "catch the 8 train"...problem with hotnumbers is the can fall asleep. I haven't played it so much but it reset after awhile? it's near perfection in that case. Because you cannot win on hotnumber for infinity, they stop hitting after awhile (that's my experience anyway) but reset after 8 hits etc and collecting new hotnumbers would work very well.
Hot numbers are hot numbers because they aren't sleepers...yes they can start to cool down or drop off the edge altogether and that may happen while you are betting on them...please really read the method through a few times and play it out on some test spins. It ends at 8 if I remember right because Ken (MrJ) questioned whether chasing beyond 8 was worthwhile...I could be wrong...going by memory here.
Because you are also tracking other numbers maybe the second hottest number overtakes the number that may have been hot from hits 4-6 and then a new number carries out the 8 hit string...isn't this exactly what you are striving for? The hottest of the hot numbers during x amount of continuous spins?
I don't have time right now to go back and re-read everything on that...but I am a student of the game and particularly of small target inside betting so I doubt I am far off on my presumptions...re-read it a few times for yourself and see if it doesn't fill in some of the blanks for you.
On the method I use that I described to you in Juggler I....you were done with the whole betting process generally within 35-42 spins (actually betting on maybe 20-25 of those spins after tracking) Is there nothing in that method that could help tweak your situation for instant gratification as well as not waiting too long and taking a chance on a hot number cooling down? I know you immediately dismissed it as not having enough numbers to bet on...but that hurdle seems to have been lowered somewhat now. Congrats on that
Just my initial thoughts here
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Dec 14, 01:33 PM 2012
Now stick with it a while. Don't come up with "The tight rope walker". Or "The knife thrower".
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=11304.msg99465#msg99465 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=11304.msg99465#msg99465)
@Ignatus: If you do come up with new systems, like building a car/vehicle they have to be easier to use than previous methods, more accuracy, and take less time to execute. Any progress in those areas are improvements.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also here is Track Four software to track how often particular number(s) hit for Juggler 2.
Thanks proof. :)
Well, this argument fewer number are better are pure bullshit in my humble opinion. It's not as effective as it should be. I don't understand why you always argue for playing with less numbers??? It's useless and bad. Timewasting and ineffective.
I will play Juggler with 9 numbers minumum from now on. Do as you wish, I DON'T like playing with less numbers. It's just a very bad idea.
This was a live session with 5 numbers. (The "waiting room" was infinite numbers, didn't remove any) As I said, the result would SURE be better playing with more numbers.
I don't understand why you always argue for playing with less numbers???--Ignatus
Because over time you will spend a lot of money placing chips on a lot of numbers.
Ideally you want three numbers or less at a time per spin, flat-betting.
If the system has any kind of accuracy:
1) (One of) three numbers should hit within 10 spins.
2) (One of) two numbers should hit within 15 spins.
3) One number should hit within 30 spins.
*Maybe four numbers--(One of) four numbers should hit within eight spins.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 15, 07:56 AM 2012
I don't understand why you always argue for playing with less numbers???--Ignatus
Because over time you will spend a lot of money placing chips on a lot of numbers.
Ideally you want three numbers or less at a time per spin, flat-betting.
If the system has any kind of accuracy:
1) (One of) three numbers should hit within 10 spins.
2) (One of) two numbers should hit within 15 spins.
3) One number should hit within 30 spins.
*Maybe four numbers--(One of) four numbers should hit within eight spins.
I don't want to argue with you Proof, you are one of the best people here on the forum. :)
But I still think that is an unrealistic goal to imagine 4 numbers
or less will make regular hits. In reality that won't happen. Hits are distributed among more numbers. Actually you'd lose MORE if betting on fewer number cause they don't hit so much.
One hit could save you, and make alot of difference if you're betting on more numbers, also save you from long bad streaks. 9 numbers hit more frequently. You can see for yourself in the chart? I had a neutral trend for 200 spins playing with 5 numbers. That's not very effective... :/
I think the argument "you lose less if you betting on fewer numbers" is a very bad argument.
So new Juggler ver. 2.2 looks like
infinite waiting room and 5 betting number?
So i will test it now and post my live session soon...
BTW i have idea how modify juggler 2.0 so i will test it and when test will be ok i post it with results.
Quote from: Smoczoor on Dec 15, 08:21 AM 2012
So new Juggler ver. 2.2 looks like
infinite waiting room and 5 betting number?
So i will test it now and post my live session soon...
Infinite number in waiting room yes. But I
for me I will play with
no less then 9 numbers from now on. Not 5... But everybody has their on preference of how many numbers they like to play.
Thanks Smoczoor. :)
OK Ignatus - i will test many methods (5 and 9 numbers) and my own variation and will see what of modification is the best :)
Alright :) And I will do a new session with 9 numbers now.
I don't want to argue with you Proof, you are one of the best people here on the forum.--Ignatus
It's a learning experience for both of us :)
But I still think that is an unrealistic goal to imagine 4 numbers or less will make regular hits.--Ignatus
If you can identify the temporary bias it is realistic. Each dealer has a unique spinning style that favors only a few numbers (Dealer's Signature). Also, Roulette wheels are not completely stable--(there may be a slight lean on the table) That lean causes imperfections over time--which causes a bias among numbers.
I'm putting this strategy on hold now for awhile. Result was not what I expected. I think it's not effective for short term play. :/ I'm working on a new strategy now, betting on medium hot numbers. See how that goes.
Ideas how to play The Juggle in the best way are welcome and if it's possible to improve it.
What would happen if we flat-bet only one number at a time those numbers that have hit three times since we start tracking. When a new number comes in (that has hit three times), we only bet that new number...and on and on...
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 15, 11:07 AM 2012
What would happen if we bet only one number at a time those numbers that have hit three times since we start tracking. When a new number comes in (that has hit three times), we only bet that new number...and on and on...
Ok. Yes that could work, it's a basically a repeter strategy. (Waiting for numbers to repeat) If you like try it, and show some result? if they're good more people can try playing this way?
Perhaps two repeats is enough then? Sometimes a number just repeat 3 times an no more etc? Try different ways. I have a bad patience, as you know! ;D Must be a effective method for me to try it.
Thanks proof ;)
Why not bet 37 numbers...that's the strike rate you are looking for and you have the advantage of having money on the medium hot numbers you now want, the hot numbers and the sleepers.
Once your bank is down to 36 units you can stop since you can't continue your method.
The beauty is with your 50 unit bankroll the most you can lose is 16. If you bet every 8th spin this will keep you at the table for 128 spins plus tracking beforehand.
Tracking is simple since all numbers spun qualify as hot, cold or medium.
Thats 4 hours of entertainment for 16 units and you win every single bet.
Ohhhh...except for losing 36 units on the numbers that didn't come in each winning spin
I think the rate of decay is about 2.7% of bankroll on this method (might have to check the abacus on that one)
...even though you win every spin...
or you could take the hottest number on the board...play one unit for 36 spins and then you would get 7 more spins with two units on it...43 chances to actually come out on top
hmmm makes you wonder about whether you are playing for strike rate or profit
I swore off answering your posts awhile ago...got sucked back in when you looked like you were progressing and here we are again...what was I thinking? :question: :question:
rouletteKEY easy... I can understand Ignatus. He has billion ideas per minute. He is not so experienced as u. He plays roullete probably for few months like me. We need experience. We have too try everything. A few weeks ago he was huge fan of progression. Look at him now - he understand that progression isn't so good.
We are like little kids... and you're acting like nagging grandmother or aunt :xd: Do not take us lollipops.
and seriously
Your advices are very valuable and I think we take it to heart, but they need some time to bloom...
never stop to give us the advices, but do not be angry as we continue to try to go against the tide :)
Just trying to find another way to illustrate the point...tough to transmit tone in a post
Tone should read as frustrated but on the lighter side...trying to help...not trying to be an as*hole about things...any sarcasm...well...that's just my gift can't help that too much
Thought the extreme example would help to illustrate the incurred losses diminishing the wins significance in bankroll
...and point out that we are playing for bankroll...not to just feel good or satisfied about strike rates
they are two different and distinct entities...keep your eye on the prize
rouletteKEY. I don't know why you're upset? Juggler 2 was a result of your complaint. it's playing with 5 numbers. I tried to increase the hitrate by only betting numbers hit 3 times? But obviously the hitrate was not so good as expected and playing with 5 numbers didn't work so well? That's my experience. Juggler 1 worked better playing with 7 numbers hit twice. Perhaps Proofs idea playing with 1 number hit 2 or 3 times would work better. I don't know. What i do know is this method does not give great profit short term. I require many spins. And im not sure I have the patience for that. Especially playing live. I'd like to see results within 200 spins etc...
Currently I'm doing a lot of testing Juggler system (i know my english are bad -sorry!)
first part of tests are based on today Betfair spins (2 hour live session)
Juggler 1.0 - (7 numbers betting)
Juggler 2.0 - (5 number betting and 7 numbers in waiting room)
Juggler 2.1 - (its my modification of Juggler 2 - im betting 1 unit on numbers in waiting room and 2 units in 5 number betting)
next results soon... now i have to relax with my favourite online game (LoL :) )
Smoczoor. I am sorry, this is what I feared. And I had similar test results. Thanks for your effort... I had great results with Juggler 1 doing a lot of spins, profit cannot be expected in less than 200-300 spins obviously.
Why u sorry? Why u feel bad? Are u kidding? Im playing with your Juggler 1 becouse it is stable system. If i win 30-50 Euro i quit and dancing 8) When session is bad (there are no bad sessions but only sessions which are going around 0) i play longer or i leave session at any profit. This is my money management. Look at my session from Thursday :)
Quote from: Smoczoor on Dec 15, 02:29 PM 2012
Why u sorry? Why u feel bad? Are u kidding? I'm playing with your Juggler 1 becouse it is stable system. If i win 30-50 Euro i quit and dancing 8) When session is bad (there are no bad sessions but only sessions which are going around 0) i play longer or i leave session at any profit. This is my money management. Look at my session from Thursday :)
Alright, thanks. ;) Was just alittle worried..... :S
Yes, in long term play it work better. Usually you recover from bad streaks. I haven't really had a seriously bad run with Juggler 2 , only neutral trends... true. And with Juggler 1 always recovered from bad streaks if continue playing...
Ignatus, not terribly upset. Frustrated...frustrated that you continue to scatter yourself about. You had a fairly stable system that just required a few tweaks and some time to see where it could go. Within a few days you are doing a complete reboot and in the interim have gone to less numbers (5) and now back to not less than 9 numbers I thought I read.
I tried to help with suggesting less numbers, a stop-loss and a win or spin goal to end the session. Maybe those suggestions work, maybe not. They work for me and have for quite a long time.
If I were you I would go back to Juggler I and look at making tweaks...test with less numbers...test with a stop loss to end the session early...test with a win or spin end point (like stop after 4 or 5 wins or stop at 38 spins from the start of tracking...something like that)
Some methods require sessions with long attacks...if you are playing airball your spin rate is twice that of an average wheel and even more than a busy wheel. If you play on a busy wheel and get 25 spins an hour you can't effectively play a 200 spin method.
My suggestion is to find a method that you have a chance to make a profit on (which you had) and then tweak (small changes through intensive testing) to meet your style of play without sacrificing the effectiveness of the method. Spend all your time seeing that particular method through to its logical conclusion (is it a bust or a regular player?)
Then move on to your next big idea.
I think Mr J has essentially said the same thing in about 300 less words.
I've been playing for years. I utilize a half dozen different methods. One which I developed that is close to your Juggler and then the remainder are tweaks off of other players methods. In years I am on a half dozen methods and usually testing two or three new methods at any one time. About once a year I may add something new to my bag of tricks.
It's like everything else in life, do you want to be a jack of all trades and master of none? Or, would you rather master (in this case) a method or two, which in this particular game can still leave you wanting?
Done philosophizing now...off to soccer games
rouletteKEY. Thanks alot. Yes, you're right, waiting for 3 hits was perhaps not the best idea. 2 hits would be enough. I agree. :)
I played Juggler I now with 4 numbers - Great results! (Guess I should listen to advice more often!) ;D
Quote from: rouletteKEY on Dec 15, 03:13 PM 2012
Ignatus, not terribly upset. Frustrated...frustrated that you continue to scatter yourself about. You had a fairly stable system that just required a few tweaks and some time to see where it could go. Within a few days you are doing a complete reboot and in the interim have gone to less numbers (5) and now back to not less than 9 numbers I thought I read.
I tried to help with suggesting less numbers, a stop-loss and a win or spin goal to end the session. Maybe those suggestions work, maybe not. They work for me and have for quite a long time.
If I were you I would go back to Juggler I and look at making tweaks...test with less numbers...test with a stop-loss to end the session early...test with a win or spin end point (like stop after 4 or 5 wins or stop at 38 spins from the start of tracking...something like that)
Some methods require sessions with long attacks...if you are playing airball your spin rate is twice that of an average wheel and even more than a busy wheel. If you play on a busy wheel and get 25 spins an hour you can't effectively play a 200 spin method.
My suggestion is to find a method that you have a chance to make a profit on (which you had) and then tweak (small changes through intensive testing) to meet your style of play without sacrificing the effectiveness of the method. Spend all your time seeing that particular method through to its logical conclusion (is it a bust or a regular player?)
Then move on to your next big idea.
I think Mr J has essentially said the same thing in about 300 less words.
I've been playing for years. I utilize a half dozen different methods. One which I developed that is close to your Juggler and then the remainder are tweaks off of other players methods. In years I am on a half dozen methods and usually testing two or three new methods at any one time. About once a year I may add something new to my bag of tricks.
It's like everything else in life, do you want to be a jack of all trades and master of none? Or, would you rather master (in this case) a method or two, which in this particular game can still leave you wanting?
Done philosophizing now...off to soccer games
Great post! Thanks...
rouletteKEY, due your experience, if you recommend to play airball on 2 to 5 hot numbers? Or it's not make sence on airball machine? Very interesting in your opinion...
Ignatus, you need plenty (like 60 systems, from outside bets, to one, two number+ systems to Visual Ballistics. You need all of them because each wheel is different (you may have to even play RNG.) Better to be overprepared...
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 15, 05:33 PM 2012
Ignatus, you need plenty (like 60 systems, from outside bets, to one, two number+ systems to Visual Ballistics. You need all of them because each wheel is different (you may have to even play RNG.) Better to be overprepared...
Well, first of all I never play on RNG. I will not trust RNG ever again. Lost enough. Second I never play on outside bets. (due to my bad patience also it's not giving enough money only 1:1 etc, haven't found a good outside betting strategy yet)...Finally i start to understand this playing with less numbers due all nagging of more experienced players! ;D You're right about that. I'm a slow learner I guess, and must make many mistakes before I learn! :P
I'm not sure about visual ballistics, it's much a trick of the imagination in my opinion, you could be easily deluded thinking to know where the ball should land next etc.. Haven't though much that wheels are different, yes, you're right about that? But it wouldn't affect the strategy if it involves hotnumbers etc? Only different hotnumbers come along?`
In the future i will play more strategies with less numbers. (as long as they are effective and not mess with my bad temper!) ;D lol
Second I never play on outside bets. (due to my bad patience also it's not giving enough money only 1:1 etc, haven't found a good outside betting strategy yet)--Ignatus
Yes, wise to focus on inside bets.
I'm not sure about visual ballistics--Ignatus
Simple, take your hot numbers and place wheel neighbors on each side.
Yes proof. I have much to learn yet! ;) But mostly I learn from my mistakes! :P
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 15, 06:17 PM 2012
Simple, take your hot numbers and place wheel neighbors on each side.
Bright :thumbsup: >:D
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 15, 06:25 PM 2012
Yes proof. I have much to learn yet! ;) But mostly I learn from my mistakes! :P
Trial & error.
"Experience is a dear school. It gives the test first and the lesson afterwards.".........Ben Franklin