Hi,
I'm playing 12 numbers per spin. I was wondering if there is a good progression for 12L in a row?
Can anyone help?
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 02, 02:25 PM 2013
12L in a row?
Why those 12 loses? 12 numbers can go to hibernation of 38 spins..
Cheers
Starkygold,
Drazen is correct. In order for a total recovery on 1 win no matter how many losses lead up to the win, our units bet get to be way too large. 1 1 2 3 4 6 9 14 21 31 47 70 Here's the 1st 12 bets for a martingale progression for a single dozen. If you lose all 12 bets, you lose 209 units and from here the bet sizes escalate rapidly.
So, in order to guard against that, we must design our progression so that we can recover after multiple wins. And even with that, we have to have a higher percentage of wins vs losses than the odds dictate or we'll just gradually slide into the hole and the end result will be the same as if we used a martingale type progression.
If you search the forum for the word "penthouse" you will find a progression that is like the D'Alembert for single dozens. I think this is as good as there is. If you can't win using a penthouse progression, your bet selection ain't good enough. Of course, the veterans on the forum will advise you that there is no mechanical bet selection that is good enough to win with any mechanical progression.
Be advised that the penthouse can be stretched or shortened to increase or decrease aggressiveness.
Here's some progression examples:
Standard: 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 etc... One loss move 1 step to the right and on a win move 2 steps to the left.
Aggressive: 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 etc... Same movements as above, but as you can see, you climb at a 33% quicker pace on losses.
Safer: 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 6 etc...
Super aggressive: 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 etc... I used this line of 12 bets so you could see how it compares to a standard D'Alembert for single dozens. From here the difference between the two lines really grows.
The problem with D'Alembert is that if you have a really bad losing streak, it can take quite a while to recover. But your bets stay more controlled.
GLC
There is one good thing about the D'Alembert and that is what I call the "hiccup effect". This is where you encounter a wLwLwL and so on.
When this happens, and it does often, you always win at a higher rate than you lost. Lose 5; win 10 Lose 5; win 10 and so on.
You will find that many times you do not need to totally clear your betting line to be in the profit. The "hiccups" will put you there.
Sam
Thanks to everybody!
Well I'm not playing dozens i just play 12 numbers, not every spin but just when a situation happens.
Here are some stats after 23 000 dublinbet spins FLAT betting.
(link:://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4696/16792530.jpg) (link:://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/16792530.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (link:://imageshack.us)
(link:://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5320/sdstats.jpg) (link:://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/sdstats.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (link:://imageshack.us)
Forgot to say something.
The graph is made using unit 1. So bet 1 unit lose 2.
So to make it for 12 numbers just multiply the BR by 12.
Sorry I was thinking to a different approach of this type of betting.
Here is the regular graph using 1unit per number and betting on 24 numbers.
So I'm betting on 24 numbers not every spin. I forgot to edit WINS and LOSSES but are the same as the image before...
(link:://img541.imageshack.us/img541/23/sdcorrect.jpg) (link:://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/541/sdcorrect.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (link:://imageshack.us)
Looks like a flat bet is all you need. :question:
Well GLC someone could say he could do good even flat bet when sees this
But nothing can make it positive in the end actualy because you have negative mathematical portent for this game and all has to be evened in the end no matter how many losses you would maybe aimed to skip for example.
But on our luck that doesn't have to be so in order for possibility of some longterm making money. It would be enough to reduce fluctuations to some extent for which you are sure you won't go beyond, and you couldnt be hurt with using progressions and money management at some point...
Starky standard progression for 2 dozzens is +2 on a loss -1 on a win...
But GLC is minister of progressions of all kind. Just check his posts and you must find something there you could use with this..
Best
Drazen
Looks promising. Can you disclose more details of you bet selection?
Nice excel graph =)
Cheers
Maybe Lanky's 6 point divisor would help?
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=11.0 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=11.0)
I will tell you the system, this is not a problem but not right now. I want to be sure that is profitable. Don't want others laugh to me when I explain the rules O0.
@Drazen I will repeat again, I don't play dozens! " Ne igram trecine" :twisted:
I'm playing Wheel dozens not the normal one and I'm playing 2 dozens so it's 24 numbers.
I think that bet selection is good but the problem is that I'm betting on too many numbers.
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 03, 01:04 PM 2013
@Drazen I will repeat again, I don't play dozens! " Ne igram trecine" :twisted:
I'm playing Wheel dozens not the normal one and I'm playing 2 dozens so it's 24 numbers.
O da, igraš trećine.. ( Oh yes, you play dozens)
Any 24 numbers on roulette is counted as 2/3 of all numbers, you wouldnt belive :P No matter how you bet them... LoL
Good luck with this
Drazen
Ok.
But I can't use normal progression for dozen because I'm betting on numbers.
Of course you can
Why couldnt you? Tell me what is the difference between laying bet on table dozens and or the same time betting same numbers straight for example? It is all matter of odds..
If minimal betting values are the same, you ll just need more chips. You see?
Hi,
I decided to play a slow and safe progression.
Any of you have dublinbet live spins?
I will attach what I have.
Please share if you have some I need more spins.
Thanks
Hi,
I did a little change in the code and I changed some rules.
I did a test with Dublinbet live spins and after 23k spins was up around 3500units, FLAT BETTING.
I don't have more dublinbet spins so decided to try this file:
3.Million.Live.Roulette.Spins.From.Spielbank.Wiesbaden.Casino
The file is so large so I needed to split it.
I took the first 100 000 spins and paste in excel and the results are:
(link:://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4898/wdznspielbankwbaden3mil.jpg) (link:://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/wdznspielbankwbaden3mil.jpg/)
How many spins do I need to test to be sure this strategy is working? :question:
Thanks
EDIT:
I did something wrong.
MAX3
MAX2
MAX1
should be
MAX1
MAX2
MAX3
the number in the cell says how many times the wheel dozen has repeated in a row.
You said your betting 24 numbers inside, is this what your saying?
Quote from: warrior on Mar 06, 08:41 AM 2013
You said your betting 24 numbers inside, is this your saying?
24 numbers= 12 + 12 numbers ( two wheel dozens )
If I win I win 12 units if no then -24 units.
Well you could try a positive progression ,with an up and pull .
ex.5-5
6-6
4-4 +3 stop here on a win +15
5-5+5 stop here on a win +20
7-7+6 stop here on a win +27
9-9+9 stop here on a win +36
10-10+14 stop here on a win +44
Quote from: warrior on Mar 06, 08:51 AM 2013
Well you could try a positive progression ,with an up and pull .
ex.5-5
6-6
4-4 +3 stop here on a win +15
5-5+5 stop here on a win +20
7-7+6 stop here on a win +27
9-9+9 stop here on a win +36
10-10+14 stop here on a win +44
Don't understand sorry :sad2:
If I lost I go +1 unit per number?
No your flat betting, on a win you go up 5 5 win 6-6 win go to 4-4 win 5-5 win7-7 win9-9 win 10 -10 stop at any time .
Quote from: warrior on Mar 06, 09:44 AM 2013
No your flat betting, on a win you go up 5 5 win 6-6 win go to 4-4 win 55 win7- win9-9 win 10 -10 stop at any time .
5- 5 you mean 5 units per number?
Example:
7 bet on wdozen 1-2 and I LOST -24 units, 1 unit per number
7 here how much I bet? If I win how much I bet next spin if I lost?
22
6
32
12
26
Thanks
No thats an example in your case you would bet 1 unit on each number = 24 numbers, that ex. is on outside bet on 2 dozens ,do that that on the inside its all the same.
Ok here these are the inside calculation.
24 -24 that's 2 units per number
36-36 -3 unit per number
12-12- 1 unit per number
24-24- 2 units
48-48-4 units
72-72-6 units
84 84 - 7 units hope that helps
Quote from: warrior on Mar 06, 10:20 AM 2013
Ok here these are the inside calculation.
24 -24 that's 2 units per number
36-36 -3 unit per number
12-12- 1 unit per number
24-24- 2 units
48-48-4 units
72-72-6 units
84 84 - 7 units hope that helps
So the progression is
1 24 units
2 48 units
3 etc...
1
2
4
6
7
2
3
1
2
4
6
7
This is a positive progression only, on a win do you move to the next number in the progression ,on a loss it stays the same ,at the same time when you win you try to pocket some profits and stop at any time .ok what is the bet seletion here any ways?
Quote from: warrior on Mar 06, 11:58 AM 2013
2
3
1
2
4
6
This is a positive progression only, on a win do you move to the next number in the progression ,on a loss it stays the same ,at the same time when you win you try to pocket some profits and stop at any time,ok
Understand now..But is not safe to start with 2 units per number. The problem is also that I'm not able to bet example 6 units because new table limits on dublinbet don't allow it.
what if:
2 W
3 W
1 W
2 W
4 W
6 if here is a L you said I stay at 6 units for the next bet what if next bet is a W what I do?
6 W next??
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 06, 12:07 PM 2013
Understand now..But is not safe to start with 2 units per number. The problem is also that I'm not able to bet example 6 units because new table limits on dublinbet don't allow it.
what if:
2 W
3 W
1 W
2 W
4 W
6 if here is a L you said I stay at 6 units for the next bet what if next bet is a W what I do?
6 W next??
Im not sure what your betting,you said that your bet selection is winning flat bet,this is a positive progression if your on 6 and you lose you go back to the start now if this bet is winning FLAT BET why are you asking for PROGRESSION? makes no sense,as far as safe there is no such thing be carefull on 24 numbers it makes you think your winning then bam the wheel takes a walk in the corner and it starts to pee.
Maximum L in a row is 2 times and max. W is 5 times, 100k spins wbaden dbet 23k spins also max is L in a row.
I was thinking just to play maybe short session with progression:
0,10 cents 2,4eur
0,30 cents 7,2eur
0,90 cents 21,60 eur
also was thinking to bet also the Zero....
I needed to filter the results to get a better view.
MAX L in a row is 7
MAX W in a row is 18
MAX drawdown was -300 units
23 000 spins.
This is flat betting. I was thinking how to speedup the growing of my BR.
23k spins is almost one year on the live table... too much :sad2:
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 07, 08:30 AM 2013
I needed to filter the results to get a better view.
MAX L in a row is 7
MAX W in a row is 18
MAX drawdown was -300 units
23 000 spins.
This is flat betting. I was thinking how to speedup the growing of my BR.
23k spins is almost one year on the live table... too much :sad2:
try +2 on a loss, -1 on a win
reset when even or in profit
maybe that will help you
You will lose twice as much as you win,with 24 numbers,we here have all been down this road it ain't pretty, pretty
Quote from: warrior on Mar 07, 10:06 AM 2013
You will lose twice as much as you win,with 24 numbers,we here have all been down this road it ain't pretty, pretty
I've tested the system over 285300 spins and the it gave a profit of over 40 000units the problem is that it is too slow to make money and betting 24 numbers is almost impossible to use a progression for 10 L in a row.
I GIVE UP! :embarrassed:
But I'm happy because it's working in the long run.
:thumbsup:
Ok so now that you gave up on it ,are you going to share this long run winner?
Starkygold,
I agree with Warrior.
It would be nice to have the bet selection method of a system that was still in profit after a quarter of a million spins.
You never know, we might be able to improve on it and make it more playable if we all put our heads together.
GLC
Just look in your inbox O0
Really simple system.
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 09, 05:48 AM 2013
Just look in your inbox O0
Really simple system.
did you sent it to everybody's inbox? I men there are lot of members on this forum, it's easier to just post it here, isn't it?
Np
NUM WD SUM PROFIT
4 1 7
26 3 7
34 1 5 -24 here you played WD 2-3 you lost
2 1 5 12 WD 2-3 won
36 2
Sum last 3 wheel dozens if the sum is 5 you play 2 wd that are different from the last one.
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 07, 11:26 AM 2013
I've tested the system over 285300 spins and the it gave a profit of over 40 000units the problem is that it is too slow to make money and betting 24 numbers is almost impossible to use a progression for 10 L in a row.
I GIVE UP! :embarrassed:
But I'm happy because it's working in the long run.
:thumbsup:
I understand your method, but I don't get what progression you used for this huge sample.
Also, are you saying that you had 10 losses in a row at one point?
Cheers
Just FLAT BETTING
7 or 8 in a row yes.
I see, well I don't think you should give up at all
Just play with large units at 100 spins per session then
even if you end up +1 you should be happy
BW
Quote from: buffalowizard on Mar 09, 06:48 AM 2013
I see, well I don't think you should give up at all
Just play with large units at 100 spins per session then
even if you end up +1 you should be happy
BW
Well I'm still testing something. The problem is that maximal draw-down was around 400 units.
Do you have maybe around 25 000 RNG numbers from a casino?
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 09, 07:02 AM 2013
Do you have maybe around 25 000 RNG numbers from a casino?
Check out the actuals section here or on
Other vls site - in pretty sure there are many
RNG spins
Quote from: buffalowizard on Mar 09, 06:39 AM 2013
I understand your method, but I don't get what progression you used for this huge sample.
Also, are you saying that you had 10 losses in a row at one point?
Cheers
FOR GET I GOT IT.
ok.
:xd:
Quote from: starkygold on Mar 09, 09:53 AM 2013
ok.
:xd:
starkygold im not sure how you came to picking the triggers but it really does not matter how we pick them ,but try your bet selection on normal dozens it will take less money for you base bet and your results will be the same.
Also you can find a dummy bet while your waiting.
Not sure if the results are the same will try to test it.
Quote from: warrior on Mar 09, 07:54 PM 2013
Also you can find a dummy bet while your waiting.
Do you mean just play something with small stakes?
Did you test it on normal dozens?
Warrior what do you think which progression is the best?
I will pick two that GLC posted before:
Safer: 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 6 +1 on a win -2 on a lost..
Super aggressive: 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23
this one I'm not sure, just move right on a lost and reset on a win??
Just checked 100 spins - using regular dozens,
Not wheel dozens, purely because it's quicker
11 wins
1 loss
Just so I'm doing it right...
1
2
2 < last three dozens add up to 5, so bet against last = 1,3
3 win
3
2
1
3
1 < last three add up to 5, now bet 3,2
2 win
Is that correct mate?
Yes correct!
Which progression is the best for you?
Can you help me please, excel problem.
=IF(G5="";"";IF(AND(G5=1;B5=B6);-24;12))
this formula is to calculate a win and is wrong. I need to put also if G5=1;B6=0 then -24
My excel wasn't calculating a loss if zero appear.
Do you know how to do it?
Example:
1
2
2 < last three dozens add up to 5, so bet against last = 1,3
0 lost ( my formula here shows a win because 2 is different from 0, this is the part B5=B6)
Sorry mate I'm hopeless with computers,
Can barely log myself in.
Lots in here will be able to help I'm sure.
In terms of progression, Have a look at
GLC's Glat thread...it started out as a double
Dozen bet and seems pretty solid
BW
Maybe someone will help.
Another 100 spins:
15 wins
4 losses
+7 flatbetting
Quote from: buffalowizard on Mar 10, 07:54 AM 2013
Another 100 spins:
15 wins
4 losses
+7 flatbetting
I already did 100k spins test but need to correct the formula to be 100%. I think I know how to do it.
100k spins, flat betting around 16000 units profit :thumbsup:
we need to use progression because the max drawdown can be around 300-400 units
Take a look at GLC's "double shot on double dozens" method
for a solid progression.
This system may be strong enough that of you lose a session,
To just raise bets by 1 or 2 units for the following session.
You got a -400 drawdown, but in reality, you would
Leave before it got down to that
link please?
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=7859.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=7859.0)
BW
What's the average on 100 spin game,if your in profit no need to progress, if your down, up it to 2 units until profit, and if still down after a 100 up it to 3 units until profit and so on,starkygold its very hard to make a progression on 2 dozens ,there is only so many ways ballistic NOT ,OR SAFE but this only slows down your losses.try on a 100 spin frame if your winning 67% well that's the best your going to do if your down up it to 2 .hope that helps TRY NORMAL DOZENS ITS THE SAME.
Really like this system, it seems to have some potent
Voodoo attached to it.
Warrior is right though - I think it's too good to stick a
Progression.
Good work starky
BV have no zero roulette? RNG or LIVE also?
Thanks
I did the tweak for the Zero but now how to implement a progression in the code :question:
Course, the best option would be to have this system botted - using only flatbet. That way, you could use lower chips that cover the 400 drawdown, but also solve the speed problem too.
Sorry Buffalowizard : )
but that made me think. Would you be allowed to leave a real robot to play for you in a B&M casino? It would need to physically place bets and would need to be really hitech ofcourse, but an interesting thought!
Not if it looked or behaved like a Dalek
Is the casino really scared of this!
link:://:.google.nl/imgres?q=dalek+pictures&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=685&tbm=isch&tbnid=vqXH_cjPLmqe_M:&imgrefurl=link:://:.themindrobber.co.uk/new-doctor-who-series-daleks.html&docid=_CkUFBBWtNlNsM&imgurl=link:://:.themindrobber.co.uk/new-dalek/new-series-dalek-3d.jpg&w=526&h=560&ei=5VE-Ud2UH8ew7AaB5IGIBw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:3,s:0,i:89&iact=rc&dur=762&page=1&tbnh=177&tbnw=166&start=0&ndsp=21&tx=62&ty=65 (link:://:.google.nl/imgres?q=dalek+pictures&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=685&tbm=isch&tbnid=vqXH_cjPLmqe_M:&imgrefurl=link:://:.themindrobber.co.uk/new-doctor-who-series-daleks.html&docid=_CkUFBBWtNlNsM&imgurl=link:://:.themindrobber.co.uk/new-dalek/new-series-dalek-3d.jpg&w=526&h=560&ei=5VE-Ud2UH8ew7AaB5IGIBw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:3,s:0,i:89&iact=rc&dur=762&page=1&tbnh=177&tbnw=166&start=0&ndsp=21&tx=62&ty=65)
I'm not : )