This is tracker no 1.
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=307
This is tracker no 2 but I have been told it has bugs so be careful if you decide to use it to play real money.
link:://betselection.cc/norcosoft/
This is tracker no 3:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=198
Here are the instructions:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0
Here is a quote from the professor himself.
Quote from: winkel on Sep 11, 07:41 AM 2013
the problem is
1) What is a "Holy Grail"? (in roulette terms)
2) Could it be used by anyone or only by "selected" (I didn´t want to say by intelligent and not intelligent)
3) Has it to be simple or could it be hard to understand and harder to learn?
4) Should it be some kind of a perpetual (create itself from itself) or should there also be personal Intelligence influenced?
5) Would you see that there is a Holy Grail, when there is one in front of you?
All the people who are asking for having it presented for free, with no work or learning or engagement or own money to play, will never find a holy grail, perhaps the Martingale.
There is holy grail, but nobody sees it. Because they are looking for something that relates to their fantasy and brings them wealth with no work. It´s more simple than you can imagine.
br
winkel
I am going to download files from West Spiel Casino Berlin Spins for table 3.
I will do that for the whole month of January and prove it to you that this is a HOLY GRAIL.
(Sorry wait again, will you tell me that I knew the numbers?).
Question to the rest of you all is: Do you want me to play spin by spin or can I just publish my final result?
Jan 01 Table 3 Results: + 225 units.
Jan 02 Table 3 Results: + 238 units.
Jan 03 Table 3 Results: + 413 units.
Jan 04 Table 3 Results: + 134 units.
Jan 05 Table 3 Results: + 362 units.
Jan 06 Table 3 Results: - 101 units.
Jan 07 Table 3 Results: + 402 units.
Which tracker do you use when you play?
Do you use any progression?
Show us one or two sessions with numbers (i want to be sure how to play)
Thanks!
Hi,
can yu give us closer view on your play? How many sessions is your one day result? And how big is bankroll which you play with?
Thank you.
Quote from: Smoczoor on Jan 08, 07:20 PM 2014
Which tracker do you use when you play?
I played with 2. Tracker4 and KFS's GUT Tracker.
I can't download the 3rd one, for some reason.
Do you use any progression?
NONE WHAT SO EVER. However there are times I bet 3 unit's on a number, that's the tops I have gone in raising my bets.
I don't call it progression because I could have lost 1 round of 2 bet spins, won the next one still be up and bet 3 unit's because of a certain event hasn't happened in 5-6 spins. That's just on occasions, 1 in 6 or 7 tries.
Show us one or two sessions with numbers (i want to be sure how to play)
I can do that.
Thanks!
Quote from: martinnng on Jan 08, 08:07 PM 2014
Hi,
can yu give us closer view on your play? How many sessions is your one day result? And how big is bankroll which you play with?
Thank you.
My results are on all the number's in that file. It is a one time run on those files per day. Based on the original concept the bankroll required as per professor himself is 300 units(if my memory is right.). If you don't triple up your bets you can get away with 300 units. With my betting being aggressive at times I have seen a drop of 400 units tops.
I can say you can take 20% of the unit's as my wins from aggressive betting.
In other words:
+ 225 unit's would have been 175 - 180 units. however you can also add the same amount back because I do lose my 3 unit bets for 2 spins and we never play more than 2 spins on the same number's.
eg. As per system If I get a trigger at spin 30 for 12 number's , as per the rules we only play spin 31 and 32.
If you win on spin 31 you don't play spin 32. If you lose on spin 32, It's your call, the rules are no progression.
Original Rule...
Spin 30 -> 12 number's -> Trigger
Spin 31 -> Bet 12 number's -> L
Spin 32 -> Bet 12 number's -> L. Wait for next trigger. Stop betting.
Professors advice:
Spin 25 no change
Spin 26 no change
Spin 27 no change
Spin 28 no change
Spin 29 no change
Spin 30 no change and you get your trigger to bet on numbers where there have been no changes..
Spin 31 -> I start with 3 unit's on numbers because, I am expecting the trigger to change the direction.
I am not saying I am wise or genius. All I have done is read his example practice it with the 2 trackers and read the next post.
Like he said, the grail is in front of us, we just don't see it.
Here I have a test run to show you what I meant when I said looking at the same numbers in different ways:
36
9
32
29
5
24
17
12
28
23
30
11
35
7
35
15
18
26
14
26
16
12
25
0
35
34
11
4
32
19
9
11
22
3
24
13
36
5
14
23
15
9
8
3
1
3
21
0
8
31
7
11
23
21
7
0
10
22
1
3
29
2
34
30
1
1
12
26
14
27
22
13
19
17
24
13
30
3
31
28
29
27
2
33
26
24
23
35
4
19
20
18
31
5
5
11
28
18
23
4
28
34
16
5
29
4
12
7
9
33
6
2
32
1
26
28
29
11
24
24
23
27
23
8
35
23
25
30
30
27
11
32
17
12
15
31
17
5
10
26
32
34
9
9
12
27
34
0
23
27
18
19
12
34
3
18
35
16
32
18
14
12
19
23
|
Same number's above played 1 way using GUT.
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 36 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 32 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
4 29 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 5 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 0
7 17 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 0
8 12 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 0
9 28 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 23 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 30 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 11 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 35 24 13 13 0 0 0 0 0 0
14 7 23 14 14 0 0 0 0 0 0
15 35 23 14 13 1 1 0 0 0 0
16 15 22 15 14 1 1 0 0 0 0
17 18 21 16 15 1 1 0 0 0 0
18 26 20 17 16 1 1 0 0 0 0
19 14 19 18 17 1 1 0 0 0 0
20 26 19 18 16 2 2 0 0 0 0
21 16 18 19 17 2 2 0 0 0 0
22 12 18 19 16 3 3 0 0 0 0
23 25 17 20 17 3 3 0 0 0 0
24 0 16 21 18 3 3 0 0 0 19
25 35 16 21 18 3 2 1 1 0 19
26 34 15 22 19 3 2 1 1 0 19
27 11 15 22 18 4 3 1 1 0 19
28 4 14 23 19 4 3 1 1 0 19
29 32 14 23 18 5 4 1 1 0 19
30 19 13 24 19 5 4 1 1 0 19
31 9 13 24 18 6 5 1 1 0 19
32 11 13 24 18 6 4 2 2 0 19
33 22 12 25 19 6 4 2 2 0 19
34 3 11 26 20 6 4 2 2 0 19
35 24 11 26 19 7 5 2 2 0 19
36 13 10 27 20 7 5 2 2 0 19
37 36 10 27 19 8 6 2 2 0 19
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0 19
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0 9
40 23 10 27 16 11 9 2 2 0 -1
41 15 10 27 15 12 10 2 2 0 -1
42 9 10 27 15 12 9 3 3 0 -1
43 8 9 28 16 12 9 3 3 0 -1
44 3 9 28 15 13 10 3 3 0 -1
45 1 8 29 16 13 10 3 3 0 -1
46 3 8 29 16 13 9 4 4 0 -1
47 21 7 30 17 13 9 4 4 0 -1
48 0 7 30 16 14 10 4 4 0 -1
49 8 7 30 15 15 11 4 4 0 -1
50 31 6 31 16 15 11 4 4 0 -1
51 7 6 31 15 16 12 4 4 0 -1
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 19 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 -1
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 -1
3 11 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 -1
4 22 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 -1
5 3 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 -1
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 -1
7 13 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 -1
8 36 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 -1
9 5 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 -1
10 14 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 -1
11 23 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 -1
12 15 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 -1
13 9 25 12 11 1 1 0 0 0 -1
14 8 24 13 12 1 1 0 0 0 -1
15 3 24 13 11 2 2 0 0 0 -1
16 1 23 14 12 2 2 0 0 0 -1
17 3 23 14 12 2 1 1 1 0 -1
18 21 22 15 13 2 1 1 1 0 -1
19 0 21 16 14 2 1 1 1 0 -1
20 8 21 16 13 3 2 1 1 0 -1
21 31 20 17 14 3 2 1 1 0 -1
22 7 19 18 15 3 2 1 1 0 -1
23 11 19 18 14 4 3 1 1 0 -1
24 23 19 18 13 5 4 1 1 0 -1
25 21 19 18 12 6 5 1 1 0 -1
26 7 19 18 11 7 6 1 1 0 -1
27 0 19 18 10 8 7 1 1 0 -1
28 10 18 19 11 8 7 1 1 0 -1
29 22 18 19 10 9 8 1 1 0 -1
30 1 18 19 9 10 9 1 1 0 -1
31 3 18 19 9 10 9 1 0 1 -1
32 29 17 20 10 10 9 1 0 1 -1
33 2 16 21 11 10 9 1 0 1 -1
34 34 15 22 12 10 9 1 0 1 -1
35 30 14 23 13 10 9 1 0 1 -1
36 1 14 23 13 10 8 2 1 1 -15
37 1 14 23 13 10 8 2 0 2 -29
38 12 13 24 14 10 8 2 0 2 -7
39 26 12 25 15 10 8 2 0 2 -7
40 14 12 25 14 11 9 2 0 2 -7
41 27 11 26 15 11 9 2 0 2 17
42 22 11 26 15 11 8 3 1 2 6
43 13 11 26 14 12 9 3 1 2 -5
44 19 11 26 13 13 10 3 1 2 -5
45 17 10 27 14 13 10 3 1 2 -5
46 24 10 27 13 14 11 3 1 2 -5
|
Same number's played 2nd way using GUT.
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 36 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 32 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
4 29 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 5 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 0
7 17 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 0
8 12 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 0
9 28 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 23 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 30 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 11 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 35 24 13 13 0 0 0 0 0 0
14 7 23 14 14 0 0 0 0 0 0
15 35 23 14 13 1 1 0 0 0 0
16 15 22 15 14 1 1 0 0 0 0
17 18 21 16 15 1 1 0 0 0 0
18 26 20 17 16 1 1 0 0 0 0
19 14 19 18 17 1 1 0 0 0 0
20 26 19 18 16 2 2 0 0 0 0
21 16 18 19 17 2 2 0 0 0 0
22 12 18 19 16 3 3 0 0 0 0
23 25 17 20 17 3 3 0 0 0 0
24 0 16 21 18 3 3 0 0 0 19
25 35 16 21 18 3 2 1 1 0 19
26 34 15 22 19 3 2 1 1 0 19
27 11 15 22 18 4 3 1 1 0 19
28 4 14 23 19 4 3 1 1 0 19
29 32 14 23 18 5 4 1 1 0 19
30 19 13 24 19 5 4 1 1 0 19
31 9 13 24 18 6 5 1 1 0 19
32 11 13 24 18 6 4 2 2 0 19
33 22 12 25 19 6 4 2 2 0 19
34 3 11 26 20 6 4 2 2 0 19
35 24 11 26 19 7 5 2 2 0 19
36 13 10 27 20 7 5 2 2 0 19
37 36 10 27 19 8 6 2 2 0 19
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0 19
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0 9
40 23 10 27 16 11 9 2 2 0 -1
41 15 10 27 15 12 10 2 2 0 -11
42 9 10 27 15 12 9 3 3 0 -21
43 8 9 28 16 12 9 3 3 0 5
44 3 9 28 15 13 10 3 3 0 -4
45 1 8 29 16 13 10 3 3 0 23
46 3 8 29 16 13 9 4 4 0 23
47 21 7 30 17 13 9 4 4 0 23
48 0 7 30 16 14 10 4 4 0 23
49 8 7 30 15 15 11 4 4 0 23
50 31 6 31 16 15 11 4 4 0 23
51 7 6 31 15 16 12 4 4 0 23
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 19 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 23
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 23
3 11 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 23
4 22 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 23
5 3 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 23
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 23
7 13 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 23
8 36 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 23
9 5 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 23
10 14 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 23
11 23 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 23
12 15 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 23
13 9 25 12 11 1 1 0 0 0 23
14 8 24 13 12 1 1 0 0 0 23
15 3 24 13 11 2 2 0 0 0 23
16 1 23 14 12 2 2 0 0 0 23
17 3 23 14 12 2 1 1 1 0 23
18 21 22 15 13 2 1 1 1 0 23
19 0 21 16 14 2 1 1 1 0 23
20 8 21 16 13 3 2 1 1 0 23
21 31 20 17 14 3 2 1 1 0 23
22 7 19 18 15 3 2 1 1 0 23
23 11 19 18 14 4 3 1 1 0 23
24 23 19 18 13 5 4 1 1 0 23
25 21 19 18 12 6 5 1 1 0 23
26 7 19 18 11 7 6 1 1 0 23
27 0 19 18 10 8 7 1 1 0 23
28 10 18 19 11 8 7 1 1 0 23
29 22 18 19 10 9 8 1 1 0 23
30 1 18 19 9 10 9 1 1 0 23
31 3 18 19 9 10 9 1 0 1 23
32 29 17 20 10 10 9 1 0 1 23
33 2 16 21 11 10 9 1 0 1 23
34 34 15 22 12 10 9 1 0 1 23
35 30 14 23 13 10 9 1 0 1 23
36 1 14 23 13 10 8 2 1 1 9
37 1 14 23 13 10 8 2 0 2 -5
38 12 13 24 14 10 8 2 0 2 17
39 26 12 25 15 10 8 2 0 2 17
40 14 12 25 14 11 9 2 0 2 17
41 27 11 26 15 11 9 2 0 2 41
42 22 11 26 15 11 8 3 1 2 30
43 13 11 26 14 12 9 3 1 2 19
44 19 11 26 13 13 10 3 1 2 19
45 17 10 27 14 13 10 3 1 2 44
46 24 10 27 13 14 11 3 1 2 34
|
Here is the as far as I have reached: Version 3:
And there is still more room for improvement
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 36 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 32 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
4 29 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 5 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 0
7 17 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 0
8 12 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 0
9 28 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 23 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 30 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 11 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 35 24 13 13 0 0 0 0 0 0
14 7 23 14 14 0 0 0 0 0 0
15 35 23 14 13 1 1 0 0 0 0
16 15 22 15 14 1 1 0 0 0 0
17 18 21 16 15 1 1 0 0 0 0
18 26 20 17 16 1 1 0 0 0 0
19 14 19 18 17 1 1 0 0 0 0
20 26 19 18 16 2 2 0 0 0 0
21 16 18 19 17 2 2 0 0 0 0
22 12 18 19 16 3 3 0 0 0 0
23 25 17 20 17 3 3 0 0 0 0
24 0 16 21 18 3 3 0 0 0 19
25 35 16 21 18 3 2 1 1 0 19
26 34 15 22 19 3 2 1 1 0 19
27 11 15 22 18 4 3 1 1 0 19
28 4 14 23 19 4 3 1 1 0 19
29 32 14 23 18 5 4 1 1 0 19
30 19 13 24 19 5 4 1 1 0 19
31 9 13 24 18 6 5 1 1 0 19
32 11 13 24 18 6 4 2 2 0 19
33 22 12 25 19 6 4 2 2 0 19
34 3 11 26 20 6 4 2 2 0 19
35 24 11 26 19 7 5 2 2 0 19
36 13 10 27 20 7 5 2 2 0 19
37 36 10 27 19 8 6 2 2 0 19
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0 19
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0 9
40 23 10 27 16 11 9 2 2 0 -1
41 15 10 27 15 12 10 2 2 0 -11
42 9 10 27 15 12 9 3 3 0 -21
43 8 9 28 16 12 9 3 3 0 5
44 3 9 28 15 13 10 3 3 0 -4
45 1 8 29 16 13 10 3 3 0 23
46 3 8 29 16 13 9 4 4 0 23
47 21 7 30 17 13 9 4 4 0 23
48 0 7 30 16 14 10 4 4 0 23
49 8 7 30 15 15 11 4 4 0 23
50 31 6 31 16 15 11 4 4 0 23
51 7 6 31 15 16 12 4 4 0 44
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 19 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 44
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 44
3 11 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 44
4 22 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 44
5 3 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 44
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 44
7 13 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 44
8 36 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 44
9 5 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 44
10 14 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 44
11 23 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 44
12 15 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 44
13 9 25 12 11 1 1 0 0 0 44
14 8 24 13 12 1 1 0 0 0 44
15 3 24 13 11 2 2 0 0 0 44
16 1 23 14 12 2 2 0 0 0 44
17 3 23 14 12 2 1 1 1 0 44
18 21 22 15 13 2 1 1 1 0 44
19 0 21 16 14 2 1 1 1 0 44
20 8 21 16 13 3 2 1 1 0 44
21 31 20 17 14 3 2 1 1 0 44
22 7 19 18 15 3 2 1 1 0 44
23 11 19 18 14 4 3 1 1 0 44
24 23 19 18 13 5 4 1 1 0 44
25 21 19 18 12 6 5 1 1 0 44
26 7 19 18 11 7 6 1 1 0 44
27 0 19 18 10 8 7 1 1 0 44
28 10 18 19 11 8 7 1 1 0 44
29 22 18 19 10 9 8 1 1 0 44
30 1 18 19 9 10 9 1 1 0 44
31 3 18 19 9 10 9 1 0 1 44
32 29 17 20 10 10 9 1 0 1 44
33 2 16 21 11 10 9 1 0 1 44
34 34 15 22 12 10 9 1 0 1 44
35 30 14 23 13 10 9 1 0 1 44
36 1 14 23 13 10 8 2 1 1 30
37 1 14 23 13 10 8 2 0 2 16
38 12 13 24 14 10 8 2 0 2 38
39 26 12 25 15 10 8 2 0 2 38
40 14 12 25 14 11 9 2 0 2 38
41 27 11 26 15 11 9 2 0 2 62
42 22 11 26 15 11 8 3 1 2 51
43 13 11 26 14 12 9 3 1 2 40
44 19 11 26 13 13 10 3 1 2 40
45 17 10 27 14 13 10 3 1 2 65
46 24 10 27 13 14 11 3 1 2 78
|
Everyone, here is the Holy Grail for you all to work on.
The Professor,
Did it for you by gambling his money away. Of course he recovered his money by the time he revealed this to us.
Life has it's up and downs. We all have to deal with them.
Like I said I thank you all for stopping me and making me read the GUT.
It was a year ago, March 2013. I wanted to sell to you all a tracker with different systems.
I still stand by my work. I always have and always will.
Good luck to anyone who can find a better "HOLY GRAIL" than the one the PROFESSOR has found for you all since 2008.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 09, 05:44 AM 2014
Here is the as far as I have reached: Version 3:
And there is still more room for improvement
What I have meant by this is the original post has 80 pages converted to printable pages is 300.
I have only reached 25-30 of the forum pages which is 100-120 pages. I still have 180 pages to go.
That's what I have meant by room for improvement.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 08, 05:18 PM 2014
This is tracker no 2 but I have been told it has bugs so be careful if you decide to use it to play real money.
link:://betselection.cc/norcosoft/
Azim,
Just want to let you know that all bugs been corrected...
... and this tracker include a configurable clicker that place the bets for you. 8)
Quote from: Normy2000 on Jan 09, 12:25 PM 2014
Azim,
Just want to let you know that all bugs been corrected...
... and this tracker include a configurable clicker that place the bets for you. 8)
Thanks for the update. However I wasn't able to download so can't confirm or deny anything.
I just didn't want someone to use it and point at me that I recommended it.
I was able to read the intro or tutorial. That's why I thought It was worth mentioning your efforts in creating that tracker.
Hope you understand where i am coming from by mentioning something I haven't used.
QuoteJan 01 Table 3 Results: + 225 units.
Jan 02 Table 3 Results: + 238 units.
Jan 03 Table 3 Results: + 413 units.
Jan 04 Table 3 Results: + 134 units.
Jan 05 Table 3 Results: + 362 units.
Jan 06 Table 3 Results: - 101 units.
Jan 07 Table 3 Results: + 402 units.
any stoploss?
do You use 3rd method?
thanks for all dear Azim (great job!) 8)
OK, I think I've studied the G.U.T. as much as the next feller....
Yes, which tracker and exactly how do you play? I saw your crossings. Are those all you play? How many times on each crossing? Just as winkel stated or until it hits?
The more one plays this system, the more questions come up. Well, that was true for me.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 10, 09:35 AM 2014
Yes, which tracker and exactly how do you play? I saw your crossings. Are those all you play? How many times on each crossing? Just as winkel stated or until it hits?
I would like to know this as well.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 10, 09:35 AM 2014
OK, I think I've studied the G.U.T. as much as the next feller....
Yes, which tracker and exactly how do you play? I saw your crossings. Are those all you play? How many times on each crossing? Just as winkel stated or until it hits?
I can confirm Tracker4 and KFS's GUT Tracker. They both are accurate. I have played with them.
I am creating my own tracker with all the if's and else's when to bet and when not to bet. How much to bet.
I will be adding this to my own program. I want to see the outcome.
Crossing: If you read the Professor's post, he has explained what to look for before actually playing all crossings.
There are times when I don't play them.
Number of bets: I have used 2 times. However there are times depending on situations I bet more that 1 unit but never more than 2 times on each crossing.
The more one plays this system, the more questions come up. Well, that was true for me.
Sam, not just for you. It took me a few readings and practice to figure out what Winkel was trying to explain.
Sometimes it's hard to understand someone.
I am still trying to understand what he is trying to say with the 23-12-12 spins for a full cycle of 37 spins.
I wish he was still around to answer a few questions.
WITH ALL HONESTY. THIS IS A GRAIL, IF ONE CAN FULLY UNDERSTAND AND USE LOGIC AND NO GUT FEELINGS.
ITS ALL LOGIC. WE ALL KNOW OR AT LEAST I KNOW, A GOOD LOGIC APPROACH WILL WIN ANY RANDOMNESS.
Example:
Husband to wife in a text: " wish you were her".
Darn what a mess. The husband forgot the "e" at the end in the text. So the wife read it as it was.
He wanted to say "WISH YOU WERE HERE"
Sam
Anyways cut the whole thing short. It's all thinking and more thinking and playing. Once you play, follow it step by step.
The more you play, the more situations you will get. Remember, your last decision in that situation and follow the results from there.
I can say for a fact that "THE PROFESSOR IS RIGHT THE CROSSINGS HAVE TO CROSS AND IT IS A HOLY GRAIL IF PLAYED RIGHT".
Quote from: Smoczoor on Jan 10, 09:28 AM 2014
any stoploss?
Like the Professor said. Didn't have to worry about it. He just doesn't recommend and neither will anyone else and that is DON"T GAMBLE WITH THE MONEY YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE.
do You use 3rd method?
To me there is no point in adding more confusion when, people haven't looked at the first one and understood, when to play and when not to.
thanks for all dear Azim (great job!) 8)
You Welcome.
Currently I have no motive in holding anything back from any one of you.
I am willing to answer all your questions.
However, What I am not willing to answer is what numbers to bet on? That is already out there to learn and practice.
Every situation is different. The more you practice the better you will get at it.
If you can't do this step right you are 100% going to LOSE with this method. THERE IS NO IF, AND's or BUT's.
All I can say is there are people who tend to be negative about things. It's like they know it all.
Even though I don't personally gamble on regular basis(I only do it when I am challenged). I love the challenge roulette has brought to me and being brought up in a family that both sides of the family gambled, was an advantage.
Maybe I am just PAYING FORWARD with my deeds.
Good Luck to you all for now.
Thank you Azim for your NOT so insightful way of playing GUT ... So from what I can see we're still at the same point we were before you added your comments.
B
Quote from: Buffster on Jan 10, 06:07 PM 2014
Thank you Azim for your NOT so insightful way of playing GUT ... So from what I can see we're still at the same point we were before you added your comments.
B
What do you mean? What have I missed?
If I understood the questions right. All situations are different. I can say to my situation and that is I don't bet all crossing.
It depends on a situation. Why repeat everything again when you have to follow examples from original post to understand when to bet and when not too!!!
Like the PROFESSOR SAID PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR IT AND EXPECT IT ON A PLATTER.
ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY A PRICE SO SOMEONE CAN GIVE IT TO YOU ON A PLATTER?
Do a spin by spin study post it up and ask questions. I will answer.
I WILL NOT ANSWER WHAT NUMBERS TO BET or HOW TO BET..
Do a spin by spin like I have done, post it and I will help by saying yes i would bet that or no i wouldn't bet that.
You can even take the next spin out and wait for an answer so you don't tell me I could see the result.
I see no effort in doing a practice run...You have to practice to became good at it...
If you have a situation and not sure at spin 30... Post 30 spins.. leave the 31st spin out. Wait for an answer and post the 31st spin after you hear the feedback if u want to...
I can not go any simpler than that.
ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS SHOW YOU ALL WITH PRACTICE AND UNDERSTANDING THERE HAS BEEN A HOLY GRAIL ON THIS FORUM SINCE 2008.
Azim Thank You for your answers. I never studied GUT before. Im happy that you show it to me :)
Greetings!
Quote from: Smoczoor on Jan 10, 07:01 PM 2014
Azim Thank You for your answers. I never studied GUT before. I'm happy that you show it to me :)
Greetings!
You welcome.
This is what I wanted everyone to see. By studying GUT, you will not be gambling but studying. You will not be making money while studying.
However, the reward at the end is AWESOME. In all honesty this is PRICELESS if PLAYED RIGHT.
If you been following my posts, I have said this before. CASINO IS A 24 HOUR ATM IF USED WISELY.
Azim
You are not showing us anything different from what we have all learned from GUT.
You are saying you are having great success with GUT.
You are not explaining how you are playing it differently from the way Winkel intended it to be played.
Please explain if you are doing something different. If you have found something new.
That's all we're saying ... otherwise your comments on GUT are worthless to everyone but yourself.
Thank you
B
Quote from: Buffster on Jan 10, 07:27 PM 2014
Azim
You are not showing us anything different from what we have all learned from GUT.
I can assure you. A hand full might have learnt and they probably aren't looking for anything else.
My object isn't to find a system and run away. I could have kept my mouth shut and let you all struggle.
Am I right? On the other hand struggle is a wrong word but you all know what I mean.
If you so positive that you have learnt GUT can you please explain me what he is trying to say in his breakdown of the 37 spin Cycle?
You are saying you are having great success with GUT.
I am maybe I am lucky. So I decided to ask a few people to send me spins of their own.
I was shocked at first. Yes, I am having good success with it.
It's not just me anybody willing to put in time will have success using it. I have spent a good time from my holidays to learn this.
You are not explaining how you are playing it differently from the way Winkel intended it to be played.
I am not, he has explained it in his posts. I am sorry for my following choice of words but I think you all know me by now hopefully, I mean no harm in the following statement:
I can not teach you how to think. You are the only person who can think for yourself.
It is not fun, it isn't my money it is your money on the line, why do you want me to think for you.
Again, practice practice practice and practice. Take 20 sets of spins. Play it out, if you win 15 out of 20 try and find out why did you lose the 5 sets. Work from there.
I can and have always said, Any set of number's are win able. If you remember my challenge to AUSGUY, he can make up his own number's and I would have beaten them without GUT. It would have taken me longer but I would have. I guess hind sight.
Please explain if you are doing something different. If you have found something new.
I haven't found anything new. It's all explained by Winkel in his posts I can't explain it any simpler.
If we can have a moderator separate all negative comments from everyone who has posted on that thread we can reduce our reading by 1/4 which means we will drop from 80 pages to 60.
Second step is to create a separate thread where a person like me could have posted a play asking Winkel's advice in playing it.
That in itself will bring the pages down to 10. I am sure we all will find it easier to read 10 pages as opposed to 80.
That's all we're saying ... otherwise your comments on GUT are worthless to everyone but yourself.
I totally agree on this, I will not deny it. The reason being is I have followed and am still trying to follow what he is trying to say.
Thank you
B
So once again, if you have learned from GUT like you say , can you PLEASE PLEASE reply to this:
If you so positive that you have learnt GUT can you please explain me what he is trying to say in his breakdown of the 37 spin Cycle?
I am still trying to understand it.
Azim,
Can you give a ABC breakdown of how GUT works ,what to look for IN YOUR OWN WORDS and in layman's terms if possible
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Jan 11, 11:35 AM 2014
Azim,
Can you give a ABC breakdown of how GUT works ,what to look for IN YOUR OWN WORDS and in layman's terms if possible
vundarosa
You have to always check for every possible crossing and play the most likely crossing that will hit.
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.msg25302#msg25302
He/She was last logged in in 2010.
I am trying to tell you all the same thing!!
I think I better stop here before I get banned from the site by Steve or a moderator.
However, If you do have questions. Post your play by play and I will try and explain , what I would look for in that situation.
Please just don't post 1 spin. Please post a minimum of last 7-10 spins before the situation in question.
@azim
i confirm
with gut tracker7clicker and kfs gut tracker 123 spin + 220 unit on DB following crossing
you can see file last session
ty
Banned?? Why on Earth?
Quote from: Azim on Jan 11, 05:15 PM 2014
I think I better stop here before I get banned from the site by Steve or a moderator.
However, If you do have questions. Post your play by play and I will try and explain , what I would look for in that situation.
Please just don't post 1 spin. Please post a minimum of last 7-10 spins before the situation in question.
----------------------
here you go
25
29
22
20
9
21
3
25
1
31
Quote from: vundarosa on Jan 12, 04:24 AM 2014
----------------------
here you go
25
29
22
20
9
21
3
25
1
31
?
Azim
I read all the posts on this over at betselection.cc, and all these. Same MO. Lots to say about little really.
That sounds a bit harsh, but I looked further.
Basically, you are saying that we have been sitting on a HG for 5 years and dont realize it.
OK....it seems, from what little you are actually saying is that in GUT, the passings happen. They always happen so thats the HG ellement.
But.....you have hinted that in GUT...you play passings, but not everyone....and you wont tell us how that is.
..................................
From reading (in my view, one of the best investigations into a system ever posted) Sams videos and deliberations on GUT, the frustration kinda lies in the wealth of passings to choose from and its down to picking the right ones and understanding if its actually a passing or not.
Isnt that the same with every system? Double streets hit...which one? Red or black will hit, which one?
I think GUT is just a very complex version of any other simple version. it boils down to choice....which is luck.
If Sam passed on it....it doesnt work any better than all the others he passed on. Hes the dogs bollox.
His analysis is based on honesty and logic. Not holding bits back to keep the topic going.
Quote from: underthegun on Jan 11, 05:39 PM 2014
@azim
i confirm
with gut tracker7clicker and kfs gut tracker 123 spin + 220 unit on DB following crossing
you can see file last session
ty
You don't have to prove it to me. I know it works like a charm. It;s all about practice and more practice.
Like the saying: PRACTICE MAKES IT PERFECT.
Quote from: Turner on Jan 12, 07:22 AM 2014
Azim
I read all the posts on this over at betselection.cc, and all these. Same MO. Lots to say about little really.
That sounds a bit harsh, but I looked further.
Basically, you are saying that we have been sitting on a holy grail for 5 years and don't realize it.
OK....it seems, from what little you are actually saying is that in GUT, the passings happen. They always happen so that's the holy grail ellement.
But.....you have hinted that in GUT...you play passings, but not everyone....and you wont tell us how that is.
..................................
From reading (in my view, one of the best investigations into a system ever posted) Sams videos and deliberations on GUT, the frustration kinda lies in the wealth of passings to choose from and its down to picking the right ones and understanding if its actually a passing or not.
Isnt that the same with every system? Double streets hit...which one? Red or black will hit, which one?
I think GUT is just a very complex version of any other simple version. it boils down to choice....which is luck.
If Sam passed on it....it doesn't work any better than all the others he passed on. he's the dogs bollox.
His analysis is based on honesty and logic. Not holding bits back to keep the topic going.
i dont want to attack somebody but your text sounds like Sam is the judge who says jail or freedom.
Azim is saying that he is not 100% in the topic and there are still things he dont know or understand.
everytime a system, method or bet selection comes out we have to find some parts by ourselves. this is the only way to get the story about the topic.
if somebody tells you the "1+1" from the start maybe you get the mechanics but you dont know what is behind the stage.
there are people in this world who are thinking for years about something and after that somebody wants to know it in 5 minutes.
Quote from: Turner on Jan 12, 07:22 AM 2014
Azim
I read all the posts on this over at betselection.cc, and all these. Same MO. Lots to say about little really.
That sounds a bit harsh, but I looked further.
Basically, you are saying that we have been sitting on a holy grail for 5 years and don't realize it.
YES!!!!!. It is not laid out on a platter. But you have to practice it.
OK....it seems, from what little you are actually saying is that in GUT, the passings happen. They always happen so that's the holy grail ellement.
They cross with different variations. You have to practice to understand which variation to be bet and which not to.
But.....you have hinted that in GUT...you play passings, but not everyone....and you wont tell us how that is.
..................................
From reading (in my view, one of the best investigations into a system ever posted) Sams videos and deliberations on GUT, the frustration kinda lies in the wealth of passings to choose from and its down to picking the right ones and understanding if its actually a passing or not.
Isnt that the same with every system? Double streets hit...which one? Red or black will hit, which one?
I think GUT is just a very complex version of any other simple version. it boils down to choice....which is luck.
Luck comes with hard work. Sorry for the choice of words again:
Sitting at home and not studying, one will not became a doctor.
If Sam passed on it....it doesn't work any better than all the others he passed on. he's the dogs bollox.
His analysis is based on honesty and logic. Not holding bits back to keep the topic going.
I am not doubting Sam at all. Sorry Sam, but when I was reading posts.
Sam's question was and correct me if I am wrong Sam:
10 VS 9 is a crossing. As per Sam's thinking.
9 VS 9 was his question he didn't see that as a crossing.
I don't know why someone didn't explain him that.
9 VS 9 can became 8 VS 10. That is a crossing.
Look at it like crossing the road 10 VS 9 becomes 9 VS 9. You are stuck in the middle of the road. You will cross eventually.
With that situation you have 2 betting opportunities. you played 10 VS 9 and won the 10 number hit to become 9 VS 9 and now you playing 9 VS 9 to become 8 VS 10.
The question is would you bet that or not. If you practice and see for yourself what was the situation that made it 9 VS 9. You decide to play it. If you lose. I hope you will remember that you lost the last time.
Having lost the last time is your -2.7% house advantage. You now have to remember, out of how many losses did 1 win.
When you playing, you are remembering all that.
GUT, in short is not easy like you said. But LUCK yes, however there is enough potential in GUT to bring you back to even and stop if you think you making wrong decisions.
I just thought of this while writing this:
IN POKER WE DON'T PLAY ANY 2 CARDS. WE PLAY GOOD CARDS BASED ON POSITION FROM THE DEALER.
That comes with practice. it's easy to remember 169, 2 card hands. Now translate that to at least 7 different situations that can come up with 37 number's.
Its hard work and practice with GUT.
What I am saying by helping is go through the spin file look and think for yourself. If you can't and want to ask questions post the crossings with numbers and we know what we are looking at.
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 12, 07:42 AM 2014
i don't want to attack somebody but your text sounds like Sam is the judge who says jail or freedom.
Azim is saying that he is not 100% in the topic and there are still things he don't know or understand.
everytime a system, method or bet selection comes out we have to find some parts by ourselves. this is the only way to get the story about the topic.
if somebody tells you the "1+1" from the start maybe you get the mechanics but you don't know what is behind the stage.
there are people in this world who are thinking for years about something and after that somebody wants to know it in 5 minutes.
Thank You.
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 12, 07:42 AM 2014
i don't want to attack somebody but your text sounds like Sam is the judge who says jail or freedom.
Azim is saying that he is not 100% in the topic and there are still things he don't know or understand.
everytime a system, method or bet selection comes out we have to find some parts by ourselves. this is the only way to get the story about the topic.
if somebody tells you the "1+1" from the start maybe you get the mechanics but you don't know what is behind the stage.
there are people in this world who are thinking for years about something and after that somebody wants to know it in 5 minutes.
You arnt attacking anyone....relax
Everyone has standard candles in their life.....and he is one in mine. I just know there is no hidden agenda in his posts. This has gone on enough to suspect there is a hidden agenda.
I AM NOT SAYING THERE IS...before the Attack police beat me up in the back of their van.
Just typing what I am thinking here......
I will add this to the fire by me saying "THIS IS A HOLY GRAIL IF PLAYED RIGHT"
Did anyone of you know, Winkel had a tracker that he used.
If the answer is yes!! Do you know how many?
He played 111 different trackers at the same time. Using the same GUT theory and same number's.
Now that is GENIUS when we can't even play 1.
at the moment i´m on page 20 and my brain feels like i try to build a rocket to mars.
the crossing i dont understand at the moment is the 0 to >1.
a number of group 0 goes to 1, i get it.
number of 1 goes to >1 or 2. these are crossings i understand for the logic.
but why is winkel talking about the 0 to >1 crossing. maybe the solution comes with some more pages to read but this crossing jumps over group 1.
Azim
Thank you for your efforts to try and make me understand that this is a HOLY GRAIL ...
But if you don't mind i'll pass on it and wait for the next HOLY GRAIL to come along ....
I just looked at the schedule and there should be one due in about an hour.
B
the crossing i don't understand at the moment is the 0 to >1.
I-89
That is not a crossing!! 0 vs 1 and 1 vs >1 are both crossing.
Sam
Guys
I am certainly no judge of anything. Thank you, Turner, for the nice words.
Remember Kon-Fu-Sed? He had a fellow program this into a computer just as winkel said and it lost around 2.7%
winkel said one must use "gambler's intelligence" to work this system. I really tried that as best I could.
I even had "backward crossings" and the "winkel no-crossing crossing". I studied crossings until I was pretty salty at them. Still I kept a 3x5 card with all of them listed while I played.
There is no "tracker4"; its Track4. There are no "passings", only crossings.
The problem is just like Kon-Fu-Sed said: Lines must cross, but you never know when. If you have a 10 v 9, you are betting that 10 numbers will hit--for some reason--before one of the other 27 does. As a "Holy Grail", it will not work. The 27 win out. I will say this and I said it before: It "seems" the lines "want" to cross.
I have never given up on the G.U.T. and will try it again. I spent $150 for Victor to make me a tracker/clicker which does not work. How's that for commitment??
Right now I'm on two other projects and just don't have time to do everything.
I'm always open to questions.
Sam
i think its very difficult to program something that needs a human brain to make individual decisions.
in Sam´s video T4 Tutorial 2 i saw a situation you can not program.
he was betting a 3-2 crossing. it was his decision to do it. i would not do it because the chance to hit 1 of 3 numbers is very low and the 3 number group was cold.
winkel said in his posts that it is not good to chase this type of tiny crossings. it is impossible to program this type of individual decision.
the point behind GUT is that you need some movement. more numbers in a group means a higher chance of movement.
to look for trends, movements and chances to hit is a pure human story and not something you can teach with "1+1"
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 12, 08:49 AM 2014
at the moment i´m on page 20 and my brain feels like i try to build a rocket to mars.
the crossing i don't understand at the moment is the 0 to >1.
a number of group 0 goes to 1, i get it.
number of 1 goes to >1 or 2. these are crossings i understand for the logic.
but why is winkel talking about the 0 to >1 crossing. maybe the solution comes with some more pages to read but this crossing jumps over group 1.
I am going to say this before I explain: " I WILL DROP DOWN MY LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND EVERYONE ELSE'S"
Bottom line don't feel offended by the way I explain. There might be others who will not understand as well maybe will if I drop it down:
0 group is a new game we have 37 numbers that have to go from 0 to 1. In real world this crossing should only happen at 19-18 becoming 18-19.
Which is not true because number's repeat. Since number's repeat 1 has to become > 1. now think of it as a dropping ball.
If you drop two balls and keep measuring the height they bounce. The height will intersect even though they are two different balls.
0 group has to drop till it reached 0 from 37.
1 group has to go up to 37 and once there which is all numbers have hit. It has to drop down.
>1 group has number's going up as well. So When 0 group is dropping > 1 is going up. The have to intersect somewhere.
The intersection is when they both have same number's.
Look at it this way. London Airport is a central location. We have to go to London to go anywhere in Europe from Canada.
Same goes for someone from Europe to Canada. It's a central location for someone in transit.
The groups have nothing to do with the crossings it the element in the group and those are the total number's(Height)
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 12, 11:29 AM 2014
i think its very difficult to program something that needs a human brain to make individual decisions.
I totally agree with you. However today is my last day of vacation.
I can assure you by telling you this. I am not a genius, and I am 100% not smarter than Winkel(if you noticed I have called him a Professor.
I will be back in March when my work contract expires.
In the mean time I am going to read this and program it.
in Sam´s video T4 Tutorial 2 i saw a situation you can not program.
he was betting a 3-2 crossing. it was his decision to do it. i would not do it because the chance to hit 1 of 3 numbers is very low and the 3 number group was cold.
winkel said in his posts that it is not good to chase this type of tiny crossings. it is impossible to program this type of individual decision.
TRUE. HOWEVER. from what I have understood is he wanted people to practice with 0 VS 1, 1 VS >1, 0 VS >1 and last 1 VS 2. He said once you become proficient in making your decisions add an extra group
the point behind GUT is that you need some movement. more numbers in a group means a higher chance of movement.
to look for trends, movements and chances to hit is a pure human story and not something you can teach with "1+1"
You are right you can't teach, but with practice it becomes natural.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 12, 10:58 AM 2014
Guys
I am certainly no judge of anything. Thank you, Turner, for the nice words.
I have been a member for only 1 year. From what I have read about you, I have my RESPECT for you.
You have done more for this forum than anyone else.
If I were to ask anything, you would be the first person on my list.
Remember Kon-Fu-Sed? He had a fellow program this into a computer just as winkel said and it lost around 2.7%
I said it this morning too. You don't play all crossings when they show up. They will show up THEY HAVE NO WHERE TO GO BUT TO SHOW UP. We don't play every opportunity we get with a crossing.
I said look at the trend and remember what you decision was. If you keep losing remember after how many losses did you win.And follow that.
Sam what Kon-Fu-Sed said was he did a run against a crossing that Winkel said at the very first go. DON"T PLAY this is just an example of a crossing. Never play more than 17 number's.
Sam
Here is another poker example.
I know the cards can't repeat so what are the possible 7 card combination in a deck? 3.5 million and change.
What are the chances to hit a flush 1 in 4.
If you have a situation where you have can make a flush but have to bet $300.00 to win $300.00 Would you bet?
NO!!!
Same case if I a situation came and I was to bet $10.00 to make $200.00 I would jump on that opportunity.
YES!!! I would bet this in a heart beat.. Lets do the math or you get the idea?.
You have to look at whats happening to the groups. This system is the best system out there to give you current trend.
Current trend is what you want to follow.
Quote from: Turner on Jan 12, 08:19 AM 2014
You arnt attacking anyone....relax
Everyone has standard candles in their life.....and he is one in mine. I just know there is no hidden agenda in his posts. This has gone on enough to suspect there is a hidden agenda.
Turner, What do you mean by that? I have never heard that expression before.
I AM NOT SAYING THERE IS...before the Attack police beat me up in the back of their van.
Just typing what I am thinking here......
Quote from: winkel on Nov 25, 12:46 PM 2009
00-13763753091226345046315979581580902400000000
01-9166659558756745800846442401332880998400000000
02-1417012790124480288380845887872707854336000000000
03-90145184730246025892907271420329810984960000000000
04-29783741778105059444026916492559103171756032000000 00
05-57970329049287657719781576280879113815426334720000 000
06-71885464137813784536847011575656511147914297344000 0000
07-59868819651200001053099801425565015916297584640000 00000
08-34762581204447586766128168170075977030524175646720 000000
09-14461938585196940315555791016241509772262121668608 0000000
10-43988863327144295628455119614800310494950727457177 6000000
11-99314403709014104760333242459469784676539760954572 8000000
12-16828756402132029257761608807853825140919211026022 40000000
13-21571423994333250786619796187375647743212359516160 00000000
14-21024615376642894044456549483200633964092178038784 00000000
15-15624050599243186577664106109533697507830824488140 80000000
16-88574561489078877149151720891953299471144686971289 6000000
17-38245595250327605318223205863016817185097264898048 0000000
18-12530967822349466104288191215822395024582071699456 0000000
19-30967834997093364656576727119566555144104706314240 000000
20-57237248137167777811633467981012366039863905403289 60000
21-78232772280842619876129768406917976326662281691136 0000
22-77931225778939000694390819037276276993798373785600 000
23-55537548139736362650165721245628847247861411840000 00
24-27656320468975854551661981504668356215745258752000 0
25-9339872643636158806351478567442193463378891366400
26-205855413999978844470780459449127510202760140800
27-2816965401383850461200395609690655180465920000
28-22399283172504178506420208588596956078284800
29-94565721758805225307882215499643868211200
30-186661410285074412593290629857625492480
31-142858615341622458131514354387133440
32-31674513616614897584407615403640
33-1247435821496707522962937200
34-3498702745071044101500
35-91534343011020
36-37
from Top to Button the exakt number of possible combinations with exakt 0,1,2,3,...,36 sleepers
your questions is answered by the top-line
You must be kidding me to explain all those combinations in 2 posts... :(
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 12, 08:49 AM 2014
at the moment i´m on page 20 and my brain feels like i try to build a rocket to mars.
the crossing i don't understand at the moment is the 0 to >1.
a number of group 0 goes to 1, i get it.
number of 1 goes to >1 or 2. these are crossings i understand for the logic.
but why is winkel talking about the 0 to >1 crossing. maybe the solution comes with some more pages to read but this crossing jumps over group 1.
0 vs >1 is absolutely not a crossing. Before >1 can increase, 1 has to hit. I would love to read where winkel wrote that.
Now, my brain is not up to snuff tonight but I cannot recall a crossing where 10 vs 9 can become 9 vs 9. Here is why: For the 10 to become a 9, the 9 must become a 10. If I'm wrong, please point it out.
Now you can have a 10 vs 10 and get a hit on the second 10 and form a 10 vs 9. Seen that a lot.
If you have a 9 vs 9, that is a peculiar situation. The two data points are on the same line! But it will become a 8 10 if it hits.
I will say this: I had far better results with Track4 as you can visualise what's happening.
Sam
Sam
Quote from: winkel on Aug 20, 05:38 PM 2008
@all
as I mentioned before it the BASIC!!!!!!!!
@TwoCatSam
you got the way of counting the numbers.
your question for the second position:
13 12 12
wins and changes to
12 13 12
betting the 13 would be right following the original system.
But I have to make sure you all understand the way the system selects the numbers. After you got that I can explain further hints to play or to play not.
I think it would be best you take some spins of your past games or out of thread of original dublin-spins or take OC-Spins or any other origin.
First hint: Don´t play the 19 or 18 numbers. Play only less than 18 numbers.
br
winkel
Sam, see Winkel has been saying I want everyone to understand before he gives hints..
Not you, but especially HERB.. really pissed him off. Winkel was getting more frustrated with HERB than trying to explain.
I am looking now for the stage where he is saying play 0 VS 1
Quote from: winkel on Aug 21, 09:27 AM 2008
@TwoCatSam
keep it simple
When we start counting with the first spin we have only non-comers and once-comers!
The first Crossing is between numbers that came and that not appear.
Remember I said: don´t play 19 numbers.
we watch always the crossing between numbers
- that appeared (x)-times and numbers that appeared (x+1)-times
- that appeared (x)-times and numbers that appeared (>x)-times
to get most possible bet-selections
imagine you would count 150 spins with this possible result:
R N F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7 F8 F9 F10 F11
1 2 3 6 9 5 4 3 2 1 1
possible crossings:
F5 with F6
F6 with F7
F7 with F8
F8 with F9+F11
R+N+F2 with F3
But we shorten the selection to this crossings:
R with N
N with "all F"
N with F2
and not yet mentioned but visible in the diagram
R with "all F"
br
winkel
Sam, You right. I am wrong. As of this point he hasn't mentioned but it's visible.
I guess I played it. I jumped. Maybe that's what TURNER was looking for from me...
Sorry TURNER
Maybe Maybe.. That's why I see it as a grail and others don't.
I am still checking trying to re-read this again to find my 37 Spin cycle.
I guess no one who has studied GUT wants to comment in me asking about the 37 spin Cycle.
Shows how much people want others to do the work for them so they can have it on a platter.
Look at the graphs and look at the comment.
IF WE SPLIT THEM WE GET MORE CROSSINGS.
PLEASE LOOK AT THE COMPLETE PAGE.
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.75
@Everyone.
The night is over for me. Back to reality.
I have tried my best. As best as I could. Once again, please READ, READ, PRACTICE, PRACTICE and MORE PRACTICE.
I would really like to thank BudskiiHD and Sam. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't have learnt some of the things I have learnt from this thread.
I wasn't trying to be selfish to anyone.
I still am not trying to hide anything.
A promise to BudskiiHD and Sam, if I ever get around to doing this tracker as a challenge to myself(65% there is a chance),
you two can use it for a few weeks and cherish it.
The reason, why I say it is 65%, I have 5 offers on the table to create this tracker.
The lowest bid I have so far is $1K every month to use it.
BTW GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL.
Azim
If I have helped you, you are welcome.
That old thread really took me back!!
One thing we might consider: An idea like this that just won't go away--well, you understand.
Later............
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 12, 10:15 PM 2014
0 vs >1 is absolutely not a crossing. Before >1 can increase, 1 has to hit. I would love to read where winkel wrote that.
As an example
on page 23 winkel is saying:
spin 40
we´ve lost
tendency is turning
0s = equal
1s = falling
>1s = rising
new bets possible
0 vs >1 13-13
1 vs 2 11-11
he is talking about 0 vs. >1 as an possible crossing to bet. maybe i´m completely wrong
there are more post from winkel about that. i posted this as example
OK
Now I've read it and you've read it and each may choose to believe as he wishes. I believe winkel is human and this is a human error. Decreasing the 0 column does one thing and one only: It increase the 1 column.
When a number in the 1 column hits, it increase the 2 column and the >1 column.
That's the way I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Someone will have to show me a graph where a 0 column hit increases the >1 column. Then I'll believe it.
Anyone...?
Sam
Quote from: Azim on Jan 12, 06:04 PM 2014
Everyone has standard candles in their life.....
Turner, What do you mean by that? I have never heard that expression before.
Azim...
technically, its a candle which always gives the same light. You can gauge distances because you know how much light it gives. A quasar is a standard candle. Scientists know that quasars always give the same light output. If they find one in a galaxy, they can work out how far the galaxy is.
They dont go off checking quasars all over again each time they find one in a galaxy. They trust the experimental evidence that all quasars give the same light.
As a saying, it means you trust it. You wouldnt need to go investigate it all over again.
Sam has investigated this well. He still has confusions and ambiguous rules he cant work out.
I think GUT is ambiguous and confusing based on Sams test.
I did read it all my self. Any post with 100s of pages cant be simple to understand, and is usually hard to pin down.
See Code4, Pattern breaker, ***five***......anything by JL actually.
BUT......it can inspire you to think a new idea up.
hi all.
@azim
please load file text attacked here.
is a 104 real spin at DB just closed.
i have played following these rules:
R vs N
N vs F2
R vs all F
N vs all F
where R is 0 hits - N is once hit - F is twice or more
result disastrous with flat bet...... :'(
you are much more knowledgeable of the GUT strategy.
do you think that I have something wrong?
ty
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Jan 13, 10:27 AM 2014
OK
Now I've read it and you've read it and each may choose to believe as he wishes. I believe winkel is human and this is a human error. Decreasing the 0 column does one thing and one only: It increase the 1 column.
When a number in the 1 column hits, it increase the 2 column and the >1 column.
That's the way I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Someone will have to show me a graph where a 0 column hit increases the >1 column. Then I'll believe it.
Anyone...?
Sam
Hi Sam,
go back to very beginning and you will find that I explained:
0´s are always going down
1´s, 2´s etc. are going up and then going down, but not strictly sometimes waving
all > ´s are straigt going up
if you look at the graphs you will see that falling 1`s are crossing the >1´s while 2´s are not crossing.
You can bet 1, 2, ... etc crossing upwards and downwards.
>x`s you can only bet if a smaller group is due to cross it downwards.
eg.
0 = 9
1 = 19
>1 = 9
you can bet that 0 fall down crossing the line of >1´s =
0= 8
1 = 20
>1 = 9
br
winkel
@Azim,
thanks for studying GUT and the work you are doing.
@all
what Konfused proofed was that if we bet a certain crossing we will end up -2,7%.
which is very logical.
I explained, that we bet only all upcoming crosses as we learn to find and bet them.
then I explained extended rules and hints to decide to bet a crossing or bet it not.
You all will remember this sentence: "Watch what is going on!"
example:
only looking at 0 and 1
18 9
17 10
16 11
15 12
14 13
now we have a crossing, would you bet it after 4 hits of 0 in a row?
13 18
13 17
13 16
13 15
13 14
13 13
now we have a crossing, would you bet on 0´s after 5 hits on 1 in a row.
Most of the people here complaining it is not a holy grail and it fails, didn´t ask any question to me. Why?
I said: put your numbers in GUTCBA and look why crossings hit and why not.
You can´t put it in a tracker and clicker and let it run day by day cash comes running in.
But that is what most people await by a grail.
I also said that GUT is just a simple version of my extended game- I proofed it in a german forum, where i made more than 200 units in a trot of maximum 50 spins.
But as victor sold this forum again and started a new one I was tired to explain it again and again. Also always people came up to complain and attacking me. So I stopped to post on this or any other english-speaking forums.
If there are serious questions (please no starters questions) I will try to answer
br
winkel
well-found winkel
I think gut is actually a good strategy, no doubt.
Your example is very clear
The tool that I am missing and I dont find is right GUTCBA.
If you help me I am grateful.
thanks winkel
Quote from: winkel on Jan 13, 04:51 PM 2014
@Azim,
thanks for studying GUT and the work you are doing.
br
winkel
How are you feeling? Hope better than the last time you were on here.
I originally only read 3 -4 pages and liked it. Never followed it through. Didn't have too.
I haven't done anything. I was out to give my version of your theory. When Sam and BudskiiHD said they had both lost. Made me wonder what you had missed. However, you haven't missed a bit. I think no one let you finish your explanation and jumped saying it will never work.
I totally RESPECT what you have tried to do.
Like the saying goes WE CAN TAKE A HORSE TO THE WATER BUT WE CAN'T MAKE IT DRINK IT.
My hat's off to you in trying to explain this in such a simple way.
I don't want to ask questions if you are not here to answer any.
I will totally respect that and let you decide.
I have a few questions, that haven't been answered from your posts as far as I have reached. I might have skimmed past it or never caught on it.
In all honesty I haven't read them all either. So if you aren't here to answer questions, I will keep reading.
Otherwise you know, what my first question is, seems no-one has been able to answer it, even though the claim is it has been studied.
Quote from: winkel on Jan 13, 04:51 PM 2014
If there are serious questions (please no starters questions) I will try to answer
br
winkel
Too excited to see you back. Didn't even bother reading this.... :)
Hi Azim,
obviously you are missing some basics of probability theory and statistics.
If you have 37 possible events, you should create 37 single Events to get a basic impression.
If you repeat this several times you will find that "mostly" 2/3 of possible events appear.
As in the posted statistic you can find, that in average 13/14 numbers won´t appear, that means 23/24 numbers will appear at least once, some twice ore more.
The statistic shows all possible outcomes of a 37 spin trot.
There are only 37 possbile ways that a single number appears 37 times
But there are millions of trillions ways that all 37 numbers appear in any possible order.
You can also split it up as I did:
spin 1-13 there will 26 not hit 9 hit once and 2 will hit more than once
spin 14-25 there will be 18/19 unhit 14/15 hit once 3 to 5 will hit more than once
spin 26-37 there will be 13/14 unhit 13/14 hit once 9 to 10 will hit more than once
spin 38-50 there will be 9 unhit, 14 once and 14 more than once
with these "checkpoints" you can judge the trot as fast, average, or slow
Quote from: winkel on Jan 14, 07:01 AM 2014
Hi Azim,
obviously you are missing some basics of probability theory and statistics.
If you have 37 possible events, you should create 37 single Events to get a basic impression.
If you repeat this several times you will find that "mostly" 2/3 of possible events appear.
As in the posted statistic you can find, that in average 13/14 numbers won´t appear, that means 23/24 numbers will appear at least once, some twice ore more.
The statistic shows all possible outcomes of a 37 spin trot.
There are only 37 possbile ways that a single number appears 37 times
But there are millions of trillions ways that all 37 numbers appear in any possible order.
You can also split it up as I did:
spin 1-13 there will 26 not hit 9 hit once and 2 will hit more than once
spin 14-25 there will be 18/19 unhit 14/15 hit once 3 to 5 will hit more than once
spin 26-37 there will be 13/14 unhit 13/14 hit once 9 to 10 will hit more than once
spin 38-50 there will be 9 unhit, 14 once and 14 more than once
with these "checkpoints" you can judge the trot as fast, average, or slow
Correct me if I am wrong. That's based on theory of the third.
I get it, the breakdown is one way of following the trends of the crossing and making an educated guess at to which crossing to bet at what time.
Is that why you used more tracker's.
I can see this situation in one tracker as this result. In another tracker as another result.
33 22 12 25 19 6 4 2 2 0 19
34 3 11 26 20 6 4 2 2 0 19
35 24 11 26 19 7 5 2 2 0 19
36 13 10 27 20 7 5 2 2 0 19
37 36 10 27 19 8 6 2 2 0 19
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0 19
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0 9
40 23 10 27 16 11 9 2 2 0 -1
41 15 10 27 15 12 10 2 2 0 -1
42 9 10 27 15 12 9 3 3 0 -1
43 8 9 28 16 12 9 3 3 0 -1
That's 7 no hit's on the 0's, which means if i was using multiple trackers of up to 7 or 9. In one of the tracker's this would have showed up as a crossing. If this is correct, I am hoping my next statement will be right.
Is that why you used 111 trackers which is your 3 Standard Deviation and if you can manage that, you would be betting on 1 mumber at a time only for 2 spins?
Quote from: Azim on Jan 14, 07:58 AM 2014
... and if you can manage that, you would be betting on 1 mumber at a time only for 2 spins?
wrong conclusion. I just detect which single trot I will bet next.
Quote from: winkel on Jan 14, 09:06 AM 2014
wrong conclusion. I just detect which single trot I will bet next.
Winkel,
Please don't take me wrong. You know I am on your side.
Now, hear me out why I made that conclusion. I know, I haven't proved it. Because I don't know the basics.
Playing with number's if a challenge for me.
If I was using 3 SD trackers on this number's. I will use your case 111 Tracker's.
You do agree every tracker will have a different result set?
The trot 0 is sleeper's if I was able to track 111 tracker's without difficulty.
Now taking 111 different result set from all 111 tracker's. Using unions, intersection and difference.( I have used difference so everyone understands its actually called complement)
One can reduce the number's to bet on?
Why can't I do that, have you looked at that?
I think we talk about different things-
I only use track4.exe when I play or GUTCBA if I´m testing
I don´t know what you mean by 111-tracker.
Quote from: winkel on Sep 16, 06:28 AM 2008
Hi Nobody,
this will call Herb, because with this we are going straight to the point of knowing the next number to come.
It follows what I said some days ago: If you have a 100 spins and jump back only one spin (that's what you do with your multiple tracker)
you will find one crossing on the same spins over different trackers.
(link:://:.roulette-board.de/uploads/post-89-1221560577.png)
This is my tracker.
as you see, there are different sheets exactly; 111
every sheet has control over 50 spins
1. 1-50
2. 2-51
3. 3-52
....
111. 111-161
in all I control 161 spins I can jump forward and backward I can control whether there are opposite crossings (page 15 say 0vs1 and page 5 says 1vs2 I don´t bet!
But that is for herb and gizmotron: this enables to play (following Kolmogorof) thee difference between these two crossings.
But that is another thing.
br
winkel
Example:
You have used intersection on identical crossings.
Using the theory of intersections.
Why not just play the intersections of the elements of as many result sets that you have used to identify that?
The one I have marked in red. Why not use the difference and bet.
If this theory is right. Which we both agree to that this theory is right. Why can't we bet the difference.
The difference on the red elements should work too?
okay, now I know what you mean.
I tried this, but it is boring and takes a lot of time to calculate.
It is easier to bet some more numbers and win! :thumbsup:
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on Jan 14, 01:02 PM 2014
okay, now I know what you mean.
I tried this, but it is boring and takes a lot of time to calculate.
It is easier to bet some more numbers and win! :thumbsup:
br
winkel
Thank you. I guess even you got bored of the "HOLY GRAIL"
Thanks for coming back by the way.
For the rest of us.
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE which turns into LEARN LEARN LEARN which turns into BECOME DOCTORS OF ROULETTE AND MAKE YOUR MONEY.
Here is the HOLY GRAIL you all have had for 5 years and are still searching.
Winkel,
Your other theories. Where can I read about them?
To Anyone and everyone,
I am sorry if I have offended or insulted you in any which way or form.
I said it before and so did the PROFESSOR: This will work on RNG, LIVE , AUTO ROULETTE and I will add any number's picked from any where.
With number's picked from anywhere all you have to do is go inside the person's head and think what they are thinking.
BY THE WAY: Sam and Blood Angel. I have to say this.
Remember when I asked Sam to give me the number's. I stopped after getting a number.
If you read I said after 8-9 spins keep an eye on 25-> It will become a hot number. It sure was. The next number to hit was 25.
I hope you all had a good X-Mas and a happy new year.
Mine was the best. I got a gift in life that no-one will ever be able to take it away from me.
Now my work contract is expiring. I don't know, if it will get renewed or not.
That might bring other options.
Like I said. You don't have to buy anything for all these. It's all free.
However, if you want it on a platter, there is always price that goes with something that is PRICELESS.
PLEASE DONT GET SCAMED BY PEOPLE SELLING THIS THEORY.
ANDRUCHI HAS TRIED IT.
IF YOU GET SOMEONE THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO PLAY AT A CERTAIN CASINO. RUN!!!!!
THIS WILL WORK ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE.
To Everyone,
Winkel, has made it clear he will not be answering any basic questions. He has got tired of answering the same starter questions. I personally don't blame him.
However, if you have any questions, I will answer them. I do care how basic they are. I want this legacy of the PROFESSOR to carry own.
When I say basic: i don't want someone to post 1.6.28.9 and expect me to comment on that.
What I would like to see is
41 1 12 25 16 9 .....
42 6 11 26 17 9......
42 28 11 26 16 10....
43 9 11 26 16 9 .....
I will answer those. that tells me you have made an effort of trying to learn.
or
Ask about different crossings.
After my explanation if Winkel wants to add or think's that my explanation is wrong he can correct me.
Is that fair Winkel?
Quote from: underthegun on Jan 13, 02:34 PM 2014
hi all.
@azim
please load file text attacked here.
is a 104 real spin at DB just closed.
i have played following these rules:
R vs N
N vs F2
R vs all F
N vs all F
where R is 0 hits - N is once hit - F is twice or more
result disastrous with flat bet...... :'(
you are much more knowledgeable of the GUT strategy.
do you think that I have something wrong?
ty
Hi underthegun,
I tested your spins an here is my advice:
pls check the picture below.
As I said: This trot is fast, because there were no repeaters in the 13 first numbers
So be careful betting 1´s
The next 12 spins:
see picture below
this is a normal trot, but we have to remind, that it started fast
from spin 25 0´s made a full stopp and didn´t hit 4 times and a crossing 1 vs >1 appears.
This "has" to fasten up again, so why betting on 1´s?
on the other hand there were 4 hits in a row of 1´s
it had been more possible that a 2 or a 0 hits again.
That says no bet on 1
Look at the following spins
Why do you ride a dead horse?
Better give up after two to 4 losses and restart
If you had jumped, as I told, and started a new game after spin 34 you would have come to this
you stopped first trot at -41
now you gained +109
Again: it is not a game of blind betting with ironclad rules: Watch what is going on. If you lose, jump!
Winkel,
Please correct me if I am wrong. I know you have played with this more than I have.
GUT as per my understanding, is keeping track of the current trend.
We have player's who like to bet on repeaters only on this forum. I totally understand where they coming from.
However, even for them GUT would be a good mechanism to learn, wouldn't it.
In their case they would only be betting on =2 vs >2?
Keeping in mind they have a better chance of losing to the house edge, not playing all crossings?
Quote from: winkel on Jan 15, 11:58 AM 2014
If you had jumped, as I told, and started a new game after spin 34 you would have come to this
you stopped first trot at -41
now you gained +109
Again: it is not a game of blind betting with ironclad rules: Watch what is going on. If you lose, jump!
ty for all winkel.
i post a new 4 days session with a high net gain.
I learned to read with attention the streaks of columns (0-1 -> 2-2 ect.) and the results were really interesting (only two small losses for a total of - 63 units in 4 days with a total profit of over 300 units).
it would be interesting to compare your gaming experience with these sessions to figure out if I played the best or not.
Now slowly I read your posts
again thank you for everything
again thank you for everything ^-^
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 12:02 PM 2014
Winkel,
Please correct me if I am wrong. I know you have played with this more than I have.
GUT as per my understanding, is keeping track of the current trend.
no it is a tool to detect what is going on
We have player's who like to bet on repeaters only on this forum. I totally understand where they coming from.
If you are playing "only" you will only lose. Why betting on repeaters, when sleepers are coming up. When is a repeater a repeater? when it appeared? Once? Twice? 15 times? At the count of .. spins?
Why bet sleepers when the 1´s are repeating?
However, even for them GUT would be a good mechanism to learn, wouldn't it.
In their case they would only be betting on =2 vs >2?
as you see for people it is hard to understand "Watch what is going on". The want a bang on their head to know when to bet.
Keeping in mind they have a better chance of losing to the house edge, not playing all crossings?
Wow. I do admire your work.
Is GUT the foundation to all of your other methods?
Quote from: underthegun on Jan 15, 12:13 PM 2014
it would be interesting to compare your gaming experience with these sessions to figure out if I played the best or not.
I cannot do it better, perhaps I made other decisions, but would that have been better?
As long as you learn to read the spins and watch what is going, you will be able to win.
But take nothing for sure, it can be worse the next day or better. Learn to stop in a win as to stop in a loss.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 01:08 PM 2014
Wow. I do admire your work.
Is GUT the foundation to all of your other methods?
no it is just an extract
Quote from: winkel on Jan 15, 02:02 PM 2014
no it is just an extract
Have you or are you planning to translate the other methods into English?
Quote from: winkel on Jan 15, 02:01 PM 2014
I cannot do it better, perhaps I made other decisions, but would that have been better?
As long as you learn to read the spins and watch what is going, you will be able to win.
But take nothing for sure, it can be worse the next day or better. Learn to stop in a win as to stop in a loss.
bother you again winkel
where can I find gutcba?
gl bye
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 02:05 PM 2014
Have you or are you planning to translate the other methods into English?
No!
I learned that people who can´t read and follow my explanation on G.U.T they won´t be able to follow the main course
Quote from: underthegun on Jan 15, 02:07 PM 2014
bother you again winkel
where can I find gutcba?
gl bye
seak at vls-roulette.com for GUTCBA or clinical bet adviser by author konfused
ok I'm trying to work on
ty
Quote from: winkel on Jan 15, 03:11 PM 2014
No!
I learned that people who can´t read and follow my explanation on G.U.T they won´t be able to follow the main course
Will it be possible to get a version and see if it can be translated for the others?
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 03:52 PM 2014
Will it be possible to get a version and see if it can be translated for the others?
NO
Quote from: winkel on Jan 15, 04:15 PM 2014
NO
hehehehehehehehe
Never meet your heroes Azim ;)
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 15, 04:24 PM 2014
hehehehehehehehe
Never meet your heroes Azim ;)
O0
LOL
friend of mine met his hero Freddy Mercury and asked for his autograph.
He said "Dont bother me with such trivialities"
Personally, I don't care. Just something to look at.
Wow...i thought he was giving autographs with no problems. Everyone says now he was quite kind and not a snob. But maybe was fed up by attention.
Quote from: Turner on Jan 15, 06:04 PM 2014
LoL
friend of mine met his hero Freddy Mercury and asked for his autograph.
He said "don't bother me with such trivialities"
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 06:38 PM 2014
Personally, I don't care. Just something to look at.
If you don't care, then why on earth did you ask winkel in the first place ?
The guy is old and ill from what I 've read, so stop wasting his time!!!!!
O0
OK, AZIM and winkel
I suppose I was wrong again. I don't totally understand it, but I will. Now I wonder what else I missed.
Thanks for the discourse..
Sam
Quote from: Turner on Jan 12, 07:22 AM 2014
From reading (in my view, one of the best investigations into a system ever posted) Sams videos and deliberations on GUT,
--------------
Turner, where can i have a look at them?
vundarosa
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 02:54 AM 2014
To Everyone,
Winkel, has made it clear he will not be answering any basic questions. He has got tired of answering the same starter questions. I personally don't blame him.
However, if you have any questions, I will answer them. I do care how basic they are. I want this legacy of the PROFESSOR to carry own.
--------------
ok then, i am very much a starter--->what do i need to know and what do i need to read in order to understand what you're talking about?
what is GUT,what is a crossing, what are these groups, how are they organized, what are bad/good decisions to make, etc?
thx
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Jan 15, 11:12 PM 2014
--------------
ok then, i am very much a starter--->what do i need to know and what do i need to read in order to understand what you're talking about?
what is GUT,what is a crossing, what are these groups, how are they organized, what are bad/good decisions to make, etc?
thanks
vundarosa
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 02:54 AM 2014
To Everyone,
Winkel, has made it clear he will not be answering any basic questions. He has got tired of answering the same starter questions. I personally don't blame him.
However, if you have any questions, I will answer them. I do care how basic they are. I want this legacy of the PROFESSOR to carry own.
When I say basic: i don't want someone to post 1.6.28.9 and expect me to comment on that.
What I would like to see is
41 1 12 25 16 9 .....
42 6 11 26 17 9......
42 28 11 26 16 10....
43 9 11 26 16 9 .....
I will answer those. that tells me you have made an effort of trying to learn.
or
Ask about different crossings.
After my explanation if Winkel wants to add or think's that my explanation is wrong he can correct me.
Is that fair Winkel?
Gents
I have found the error in my thinking about the 0 vs >1 crossing. Now I wonder if I had it right back then or not? OR did I forget it over the years?
If the old videos are still up, you may find me on Utube as twocatsam.
Sam
Quote from: vundarosa on Jan 15, 11:12 PM 2014
--------------
ok then, i am very much a starter--->what do i need to know and what do i need to read in order to understand what you're talking about?
what is GUT,what is a crossing, what are these groups, how are they organized, what are bad/good decisions to make, etc?
thanks
vundarosa
There is a link to the topic on page 1. We dont need to explain every single part again if it is already there.
I dont want to be bad but sometimes i have the feeling people posting something without reading the thread.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 16, 12:17 AM 2014
Azim, as i said i'm a starter on this....where do i start from?!
vundarosa
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 16, 03:23 AM 2014
There is a link to the topic on page 1. We don't need to explain every single part again if it is already there.
I don't want to be bad but sometimes i have the feeling people posting something without reading the thread.
------------------------
I thought those links were to have a look at the trackers....do they cover the basics? I tried to open the links but my browser flags as having malwares :o
vundarosa
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 15, 04:24 PM 2014
hehehehehehehehe
Never meet your heroes Azim ;)
O0
These are the kinds of comments I hate.
I openend everything ref. GUT. Others sold my Ideas. I´m blamed to protect my own ideas?
If you don´t like me just pee off
On the other hand: "NO" means, that it is not possible to read my full strategy anywhere on the internet because it isn´t published. So it can´t be translated either.
Quote from: vundarosa on Jan 16, 06:22 AM 2014
------------------------
I thought those links were to have a look at the trackers....do they cover the basics? I tried to open the links but my browser flags as having malwares :o
vundarosa
On page 1 you need to click link number 4. above the link you can read the words "Here are the instructions:"
Quote from: winkel on Jan 16, 08:18 AM 2014
These are the kinds of comments I hate.
I openend everything ref. GUT. Others sold my Ideas. I´m blamed to protect my own ideas?
If you don´t like me just pee off
On the other hand: "NO" means, that it is not possible to read my full strategy anywhere on the internet because it isn´t published. So it can´t be translated either.
@Winkel
That post was sent because, I'm 100% sure Azim expected you to say "Yes" not "No". As you have stated above it's your "system" & if you don't wish all of it to be online (or translated) that's your right. I meant you no disrespect, & if I have I can only apologize. :-[
O0
Winkel,
I did expect you to say No. I am used to people telling me NO.
Just like the way you first said my conclusion was wrong.
After explanation you did agree it was the right conclusion.
Even with your NO answer I still have the same RESPECT for you.
I am sure you not going to believe me with this. I have a bot of my own. I have used the same theory concept.
I have my bot on rent to 5-6 people. It's not for sale. I make a profit based on winnings, on a weekly basis.
On the second note: I haven't read your GUT topic in full. but GUTCBA tracker has bugs on how the betting is done based on your original instructions.
If there are 4 number's to play 9 times.
If there are 3 number's to play 12 times.
If the above tracker is not following those rules than I stand corrected.
Sam,
We are human. We all make mistakes. The way I see it is
Doing the same mistake over and over expecting a different result set. Is called STUPIDITY.
That's why it's a lot better for everyone to practice and practice. It's not fun losing money.
@Everyone, Make sure you steady it to perfection. 1 mistake in calculation could turn a positive result to a negative in no time.
I am officially making this my last post on this thread.
XXXX
Sorry wrong thread!!!
Azim
please stay with us
your topic are the most interesting
we have on this forum since a long time
best from France
as always.
nobody wnats to know the grail
Quote from: winkel on Jan 19, 07:14 AM 2014
as always.
nobody wnats to know the grail
This is not true. I understand the basics about the crossings and the betting. At the moment i work on the problem to see the right moment to bet. The whole story about trends, movements, patterns etc.
practise is my situation at the moment. you said 100 units per day is a good win limit and i have to wait for tomorrow for a new open win-window
As a german i´m on your side.
Quote from: winkel on Jan 19, 07:14 AM 2014
as always.
nobody wnats to know the grail
Winkel,
I think, like you said. No one wants to work for it.
I bet you anything, if we told them to track 10 E/C and then bet.
It's an easier tracking mechanism. But with crossings, it might not be easy to understand.
Maybe Maybe, we could try again. I can post results and the crossing from a file everyday for a week.
That might bring interest back into this thread.
Personally, I would love to see your input in seeing it in a different way, from the way I would play it.
If you are willing to do that, I can post one a day, to hear your feedback?
is there another tracker than the konfused one?
it seems, this tracker does not play as winkel explained. i tested it and it tanks.
or are you tracking by hand?
why is the tracker sometimes just predicting 4 numbers?
regards, max
My Query for Mr. Winkel,
Sir, there have been lots of debates over your G.U.T. Many say this is right way, many say Winkel did not say this. Do you feel there is any correct tracker out on any forum that does exactly what you wanted?
I use tracker 1 and 2 on page 1. i think winkel is using tracker 1 .
there is NO tracker that shows you every "good bet". the trackers shows you the crossings u can use for betting. to bet or not to bet is a individual decision based on multiple informations.
there is no tracker that tells you when its a great moment to bet on "0" or "1", this is your job
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 19, 09:58 AM 2014
I use tracker 1 and 2 on page 1. i think winkel is using tracker 1 .
there is NO tracker that shows you every "good bet". the trackers shows you the crossings u can use for betting. to bet or not to bet is a individual decision based on multiple informations.
there is no tracker that tells you when its a great moment to bet on "0" or "1", this is your job
Good judgement/Gut feeling (no pun intended) = LUCK doesnt it?
Quote from: Turner on Jan 19, 10:40 AM 2014
Good judgement/Gut feeling (no pun intended) = LUCK doesn't it?
we use some information to minimize the need for luck.
let´s play with some statistics:
between spin 38 and 50 we have about 4 unhit numbers to hit (average).
in spin 40 you have a crossing for the unhit numbers. you know there are about 4 hits left to for the unhit but you have 10 spins left for the 50 spin-round.
you have a chance of 40% that you get your hit. maybe a little bit risky.
in spin 47 you have a crossing for the unhit numbers. you know there are 2 hits left for the unhit and you have 3 spins left for the 50 spin-round.
you have a chance of 66% to hit the bet.
if you lose the first bet you know there are 2 hits left for the unhit and 2 hits left for the 50 spin-round. if the crossing is still there it can be a good moment to bet.
no question you can lose the bets but the statistic average is on your side. this raises your winning percentage and decreases the ultimate need for luck.
Quote from: RFMAXX on Jan 19, 09:02 AM 2014
is there another tracker than the konfused one?
it seems, this tracker does not play as winkel explained. i tested it and it tanks.
or are you tracking by hand?
why is the tracker sometimes just predicting 4 numbers?
regards, max
Hi,
The tracker is bound to ironclad rules. When you open the tracker all rules are linked. Just read the html-page.
Also use the box that asks for "Double-crossing" yes or no to bet!
That will give you an idea of what and when to bet or not.
I use trac4.exe only
Quotewhy is the tracker sometimes just predicting 4 numbers?
If you don´t see or understand read all explanation what crossings are.
i will... :)
better learning the basics first...as always. thank you.
Winkel,
Would you have played this any different>
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 1 36 1
2 2 35 2
3 0 34 3
4 1 34 2 1 1
5 6 33 3 1 1
6 19 32 4 1 1
7 14 31 5 1 1
8 27 30 6 1 1
9 36 29 7 1 1
10 33 28 8 1 1
11 21 27 9 1 1
12 12 26 10 1 1
13 18 25 11 1 1
14 33 25 10 2 2
15 22 24 11 2 2
16 29 23 12 2 2
17 33 23 12 2 1 1
18 14 23 11 3 2 1
19 10 22 12 3 2 1
20 20 21 13 3 2 1
21 34 20 14 3 2 1
22 1 20 14 3 1 2
23 5 19 15 3 1 2
24 28 18 16 3 1 2
25 18 18 15 4 2 2 =2: 14 18 2 -2
26 3 L 17 16 4 2 2 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -19
27 18 L 17 16 4 1 3 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -36
28 12 L 17 15 5 2 3 -36
29 10 17 14 6 3 3 =2: 10 12 14 3 -39
30 0 L 17 13 7 4 3 =2: 0 10 12 14 4 -43
31 2 L 17 12 8 5 3 -43
32 16 16 13 8 5 3
33 21 16 12 9 6 3
34 21 16 12 9 5 4 =2: 0 2 10 12 14 5 -48
35 32 L 15 13 9 5 4 =2: 0 2 10 12 14 5 -53
36 6 L 15 12 10 6 4 -53
37 18 15 12 10 6 4
38 31 14 13 10 6 4 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 30 35 14 -67
39 36 L 14 12 11 7 4 =1: 3 5 16 19 20 22 27 28 29 31 32 34 12 -79
40 19 W 14 11 12 8 4 -43
41 33 14 11 12 8 4
42 8 13 12 12 8 4 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 30 35 13 -56
43 30 W 12 13 12 8 4 =1: 3 5 8 16 20 22 27 28 29 30 31 32 34 13 -33
44 28 W 12 12 13 9 4 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 35 12 -9
45 6 L 12 12 13 8 5 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 35 12 -21
46 34 L 12 11 14 9 5 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 35 12 -33
47 17 W 11 12 14 9 5 +3
48 15 10 13 14 9 5 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 23 24 25 26 35 10 -7
49 36 L 10 13 14 8 6 -7
50 31 * End of Session
|
Hi to everybody
I am searching for the RX code of this system made by boatran but I cant find it.
¿Could you help me?
Thanks :thumbsup:
Quote from: Interstate89 on Jan 19, 11:07 AM 2014
we use some information to minimize the need for luck.
let´s play with some statistics:
between spin 38 and 50 we have about 4 unhit numbers to hit (average).
in spin 40 you have a crossing for the unhit numbers. you know there are about 4 hits left to for the unhit but you have 10 spins left for the 50 spin-round.
you have a chance of 40% that you get your hit. maybe a little bit risky.
in spin 47 you have a crossing for the unhit numbers. you know there are 2 hits left for the unhit and you have 3 spins left for the 50 spin-round.
you have a chance of 66% to hit the bet.
if you lose the first bet you know there are 2 hits left for the unhit and 2 hits left for the 50 spin-round. if the crossing is still there it can be a good moment to bet.
no question you can lose the bets but the statistic average is on your side. this raises your winning percentage and decreases the ultimate need for luck.
Good thinking Interstate89!
I more or less was thinking along similar lines.
The second cycle of spins from 38 to 74 can provide us with some clues.
We know there is an average of 12 numbers left still to appear after 37 spins.
This then comes down to around 4 at the 74 spin mark. But what I notice is that you often get a quick a burst of those 12 remaining numbers appearing before the last 4 or so tend to drag their heels. The quick burst tends to happen around spins 50-60.
So how can we use this info?
I find any 2>3 crossings can work well (just betting a few numbers) from around the 38 spin to 50 spin mark. Then the 0>1 crossing can work well in that burst between spins 50 to 60. And finally go back hunting for the 1>2's and 2>3's around the 60 to 74 spin mark.
It's not an exact science by any means but I can understand what Winkel means by using 'gamblers intelligence' to navigate through the spins.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 19, 05:43 PM 2014
25 18 18 15 4 2 2 =2: 14 18 2 -2
26 3 L 17 16 4 2 2 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -19
27 18 L 17 16 4 1 3 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -36
You have started playing a crossing. Why not complete it. I would play this crossing for 18 spins. It would give me +32 instead of -36
This is the only one i would have played differently
Quote from: Azim on Jan 19, 05:43 PM 2014
Winkel,
Would you have played this any different>
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
...
25 18 18 15 4 2 2 =2: 14 18 2 -2
26 3 L 17 16 4 2 2 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -19
27 18 L 17 16 4 1 3 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -36
28 12 L 17 15 5 2 3 -36
29 10 17 14 6 3 3 =2: 10 12 14 3 -39
30 0 L 17 13 7 4 3 =2: 0 10 12 14 4 -43
31 2 L 17 12 8 5 3 -43
|
How big have your losses to be that you jump away from this trot?
Winkel,
I was under the impression, if we lose the same crossing twice in a row that's when we jump, or do we jump when we lose any 2 crossings in a row?
Quote from: winkel on Jan 19, 07:14 AM 2014
as always.
nobody wnats to know the grail
---------------
maybe because some (many?) of us are still trying to understand what GUT is? :o
my ISP won't allow to open the links, so i can only hope a grateous soul would post snipets of what the theory is so i can at least try to understand....untill then i keep watching on the thread :sad2:
vundarosa
Go to VLSRoulette.com.
On the home page. Go under sections and look for winkel's way. When you find it.. The topic heading you want to read is called the holy gral or gut
Quote from: Azim on Jan 21, 12:44 AM 2014
Go to VLSRoulette.com.
On the home page. Go under sections and look for winkel's way. When you find it.. The topic heading you want to read is called the holy grail or gut
----------------------
:thumbsup: found it. thx
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0
80 pages to go throught O0
vundarosa
Quote from: Azim on Jan 20, 09:37 PM 2014
Winkel,
I was under the impression, if we lose the same crossing twice in a row that's when we jump, or do we jump when we lose any 2 crossings in a row?
This is a good example: When do we have to stop the game?
Every trot may have its own flow. If I bet and the bet misses and I select a next bet and lose again. What does that tell?
Either I´m on bad trot, so I jump.
Or my decisions are wrong. so I jump, because I can´t follow the flow of that trot.
There is never a right or wrong decision. There are good decisions and bad. If I´m on bad I have to stop.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 20, 09:37 PM 2014
Winkel,
I was under the impression, if we lose the same crossing twice in a row that's when we jump, or do we jump when we lose any 2 crossings in a row?
------------------------
not as i understood it, it would depend of how many numbers you're betting
say "17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice
12 to 10 - we bet three times
9 to 8 - we bet four times"
and so on
but take me with a grain of salt as i'm just on page 4 >:D
vundarosa
Quote from: Azim on Jan 20, 09:37 PM 2014
Winkel,
I was under the impression, if we lose the same crossing twice in a row that's when we jump, or do we jump when we lose any 2 crossings in a row?
---------------
also Azim, you would continue betting the specified number of times ONLY if it remains a possible crossing
nb
x 10 14 13 bet 14 Nbs
x 9 15 13 loss -14 -->even thou 14nbs can be bet 2x, no betting b/c no longer possible crossing
x 9 14 14 bet 14 Nbs
x 8 15 14 loss -14-->bet second time b/c still a possible crossing bet 15 N
x 8 14 15 won 21
vundarosa
Quote from: Azim on Jan 19, 05:43 PM 2014
Winkel,
Would you have played this any different>
Sp Nm W/L =0 =1 >1 =2 >2 Adv bet = BRoll
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0
1 1 36 1
2 2 35 2
3 0 34 3
4 1 34 2 1 1
5 6 33 3 1 1
6 19 32 4 1 1
7 14 31 5 1 1
8 27 30 6 1 1
9 36 29 7 1 1
10 33 28 8 1 1
11 21 27 9 1 1
12 12 26 10 1 1
13 18 25 11 1 1
14 33 25 10 2 2
15 22 24 11 2 2
16 29 23 12 2 2
17 33 23 12 2 1 1
18 14 23 11 3 2 1
19 10 22 12 3 2 1
20 20 21 13 3 2 1
21 34 20 14 3 2 1
22 1 20 14 3 1 2
23 5 19 15 3 1 2
24 28 18 16 3 1 2
25 18 18 15 4 2 2 =2: 14 18 2 -2
26 3 L 17 16 4 2 2 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -19
27 18 L 17 16 4 1 3 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 16 17 23 24 25 26 30 31 32 35 17 -36
28 12 L 17 15 5 2 3 -36
29 10 17 14 6 3 3 =2: 10 12 14 3 -39
30 0 L 17 13 7 4 3 =2: 0 10 12 14 4 -43
31 2 L 17 12 8 5 3 -43
32 16 16 13 8 5 3
33 21 16 12 9 6 3
34 21 16 12 9 5 4 =2: 0 2 10 12 14 5 -48
35 32 L 15 13 9 5 4 =2: 0 2 10 12 14 5 -53
36 6 L 15 12 10 6 4 -53
37 18 15 12 10 6 4
38 31 14 13 10 6 4 =0: 4 7 8 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 30 35 14 -67
39 36 L 14 12 11 7 4 =1: 3 5 16 19 20 22 27 28 29 31 32 34 12 -79
40 19 W 14 11 12 8 4 -43
41 33 14 11 12 8 4
42 8 13 12 12 8 4 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 30 35 13 -56
43 30 W 12 13 12 8 4 =1: 3 5 8 16 20 22 27 28 29 30 31 32 34 13 -33
44 28 W 12 12 13 9 4 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 35 12 -9
45 6 L 12 12 13 8 5 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 35 12 -21
46 34 L 12 11 14 9 5 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 15 17 23 24 25 26 35 12 -33
47 17 W 11 12 14 9 5 +3
48 15 10 13 14 9 5 =0: 4 7 9 11 13 23 24 25 26 35 10 -7
49 36 L 10 13 14 8 6 -7
50 31 * End of Session
|
I studied and used Winkel's GUT for a number of years back when it was first being written about. Alarian's Tracker 022B and Track4 were the main trackers I used and had a very good run. Unforunately ill health stopped me gambling for quite a while and I have only just got back into it.
Azim I would have played it the way it has been played there with a stop-loss of 100 units. I have seen so many sessions dip into the red big time then suddenly come out of or close to it near the end of the session.
Winkel, I have thanked you before in the past on other boards, but I will again thank you for this gift you have bestowed on us. It is very unfortunate that not everyone sees it for what it is if they put in the time.
I made a separate post here for the rules as I saw them from Winkel's thread.
17-13 numbers 2 bets
12-10 numbers 3 bets
9-8 numbers 4 bets
36/numbers=times to bet (use first number only; 3,5 = 3)
Stop at >39 units otherwise play till spin 50, no stoploss no limit (this one I changed to suit myself as I noticed the rebounds that often happened)
Rebet a crossing as long as it is alive
15-14 moves to 15-13 stop betting
15-14 stays 15-14 rebet (once see above)
especially later in the spins when bet 0vs2 appear:
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-8 loss stopp betting
9-9
9-8
9-7 stop
9-8 (a 1 has hit) start betting max 4times again
Play
0vs1
1vs2
0vs1>
0vs2>
1vs1>
1vs2
This is just my take and it worked OK for me. Attached is a summary of the GUT.
Thank´s a lot for this summery!
agesta
Quote from: foogus on Jan 22, 08:30 AM 2014
This is just my take and it worked OK for me. Attached is a summary of the GUT.
Thanks foogus,
everybody may play this strategy as it is comfortable for him/her.
As I said, this gives the point of a possible bet. If you bet or not it is your decision.
br
winkel
question @foogus & winkel
how mutch unit we need to lay this system safely ?
foogus
can you show us
for exemple resiult of 10 seesions how mutch you win ?
each session and loss
just to have a view on this system
can you say you are winning in the "long run "
@foogus thank for the sumery of gut as you play it
Quote from: roulettefan on Jan 22, 09:35 AM 2014
question @foogus & winkel
how mutch unit we need to lay this system safely ?
foogus
can you show us
for exemple resiult of 10 seesions how mutch you win ?
each session and loss
just to have a view on this system
can you say you are winning in the "long run "
@foogus thank for the sumery of gut as you play it
I haven't played roulette for quite a while, but from memory I liked to have a BR of about 1000 units. I played mostly RNG funnily enough on a casino called OMNI. You have to remember you won't win every session. I haven't got my notes from my sessions easily available at the moment, but on average towards the end before I was forced to stop playing due to ill health I was winning around 7-8 out of 10 sessions. Winnings sessions ranged from 10 to as high as 80 units a 50 spin session. I could also lose as much as 50+ units on the losing sessions, but this was rare. Over 10 sessions I used to pick up about 400 units on average. I mostly played to win 100 units a day playing $1 chips.
You need to remember it took me about two years of practice to understand what was happening properly. Doing this without tracker software is far more difficult and time consuming.
If I have time I will do some practice sessions using real spin data and try to explain how I would have played them with Alarian's tracker. Not sure if you can get it anywhere anymore so here it is as an attachment, the others available are pretty good as well. I particularly liked Track4.
@foogus
thank from France
Attached is a 49 spin session with screen dumps on how I play it.
Result was +41 units.
Also attached is the actual spins from Dublinbet that the session was based on.
Quote from: foogus on Jan 22, 05:23 PM 2014
Not sure if you can get it anywhere anymore so here it is as an attachment, the others available are pretty good as well. I particularly liked Track4.
----------------
been looking for this! :thumbsup:
thx
vundarosa
Winkel,
Is there a quick way to get all possible combinations with there frequency of showing at all spins from 1-50?
Quote from: Azim on Jan 23, 07:43 AM 2014
Winkel,
Is there a quick way to get all possible combinations with there frequency of showing at all spins from 1-50?
:lol:
you are not really knowing what you are asking for, are you?
Above there is the statistic where is shown how many combinations there are possible for 14 unhits in 37 spins.
Can you pronounce that figure?
So there is no
quick or even readable way to answer your question
Quote from: foogus on Jan 22, 07:35 PM 2014
Attached is a 49 spin session with screen dumps on how I play it.
Result was +41 units.
Also attached is the actual spins from Dublinbet that the session was based on.
The problem with that tracker is that you can´t
see what is going on
just to give you an idea of the data volume
all possible combinations at spin 25 out of 10 000 000 spins
Quote from: winkel on Jan 23, 11:20 AM 2014
just to give you an idea of the data volume
all possible combinations at spin 25 out of 10 000 000 spins
Thank you. I guess I asked the wrong question.
Now with what you have for spin 25 is it possible to get something similar from spin 13 to 50?
Just want to analyze a few things. If it's not possible, this one is a start.
Just tell me what you wanna anylize and I answer. Promise you, i did all possible queries over that problem otherwise I wouldn´t had created G.U.T
Quote from: winkel on Jan 23, 02:54 PM 2014
Just tell me what you wanna anylize and I answer. Promise you, i did all possible queries over that problem otherwise I wouldn´t had created G.U.T
Oh I believe you. I know you did. That's why you have a nice system.
Ok. I will try and explain what I am looking for.
Lets say I am playing a session:
At spin 13 I get:
13 35 24 13 13 0 0 0 0 0 0
This is what I would like to understand.
24 can turn into 23.
Which means >0 13 turns to 14 , and =1 turns to 14.
OR
24 stays at 24.
>0 13 stays at 13.
=1 13 turns into 12.
>1 0 turns into 1.
=2 0 turns into 1.
Remember. There is no crossing so we don't bet. Just throwing this out.
For this situation, this are the only 2 possible changes. We decide based on what's happening if we bet or not, once again if this was a crossing.
What I am trying to understand is: "WHAT ARE THE CHANCE'S THAT IDENTICAL CROSSINGS CAN ONLY BE PLAYED AT A CERTAIN SPIN COUNT?"
What do I mean by that is:
Once again giving example: Yes we don't bet 19-18 crossing ever. But what if with a full blown analysis we find that 19-18 crossing will always win at spin 22. Here we go to the table, start noting our spins. we get to spin 22 and we get a crossing 19-18. Based on statistics. This crossing will always win. If we are making our bets based on statistics we bet the 19-18 crossing only when its at spin 22.
Like wise, we can pick 10-12 different crossing and wait for them at a certain spin count and once we have them we bet.
23 25 17 20 17 3 3 0 0 0 0
24 0 16 21 18 3 3 0 0 0 19
IF 17-17 always wins at spin 23 we keep tracking and see if we get that crossing at spin 23 and bet it.
This is what I would like to prove? After knowing how far you have gone with this.
I know there are more crossing and possible combinations.
It's boiling down to how much patience will one have.
I knew that you would go for this.
Take that Excel-Sheet I gave for spin 25.
Read as follows:
Situation:
R = unhit 0, N=1, F2 = twice, F3 = three times and so on
Summe = amount of appearance in 10 000 000 trots at spin 25
the next columns tell which has appeared in the next spin
example line 31 19-11-7 which means crossing 19 18
total of 43640
in the next spin hit
0 = 22504
1 = 13007
2 = 8133
43640*19/37 = 22409,72973
13007*11/37 = 12974,05405
8133*7/37 = 8256,216216
As you can see every chance hits within its probability.
That is what Konfused proofed.
The differences are due to normal deviation.
What I say is: Look what happened before and you will select the bettings that probable have a higher chance of hitting.
But you can refer to my Post at VLS: mathematical proof of G.U.T
and see where my "higher chance" is hidden
Ok.
Now look at this from the same file
This is from line 30.
18 17 2 72 42 27 3
Or
This is from line 15
17 16 3 1 64492 29728 27833 5184 1747
Now If i am at spin 25. I run into a situation. Where I have a crossing 18/17 I don't bet. the number's are low.
However on the same token if I was at spin 25 and I get a crossing 17/16 I would bet in a heart beat. Based on the statistics you have showed me here.
BTW the excel sheet only has a count of 1, 040, 436.
I have a file with 3,084,160. That I am trying to run this against. It's not an easy task.
Was hoping if , you can provide the rest. That will same me some time.
It is no doubt what, foogus has said to everyone. It took him 2 yrs to practice.
Here is another example:
From what you have said :
At line 9: 16 17 4 This is not a crossing. Just trying to explain where I am going with this.
Based on your number's 49350 21374 22721 5255
As you can see the 1's hit. So If I was at spin 25 with that result set. I would bet 17 1's knowing that statistics in on my side to pull a win, based on previous performance of how it got to that result set.
I also have to know if at spin 24:
Was line 9 originally 17 16 4 or no before making that conclusion. This also tells me If I bet for 2 spins at spin 24. 17/16 would hit on spin 25 or 26 as per your findings.
I could be way off in my thinking. But I have to prove to myself before I can draw that conclusion.
Unless you can prove it to me.
Azim......you ever seen Angel Heart with Mickey Rourke?
The more he digs and quizzes De Niro, the worse his life gets. >:D
I am willing to prove myself wrong in my thinking.
I am sure I am. But need prove before I admit it. :wink:
Hi Azim,
it is not possible to read from a statistic, which will happen in the next spin.
Basics to your question:
imagine you come to a point where it says:
16 17 4
What you can say is:
this will change to: 15 18 4 or 16 16 5 or 16 17 4
this will happen with its probabilities of 16/37 or 17/37 or 4/37
When I say: "Watch what is going on" You have to look to where this came from
It could have come from
17 16 4 or 16 18 3 or 16 17 4
that could have come from
17 16 4 or 18 15 4 or 17 17 3 or or 16 18 3 or 17 17 3 or 16 19 2 or or 16 17 4 or 16 18 3 or 17 16 4
Think about this!
or as I said: (as an example)
when it comes from 20 10 7 straight to 15 15 7 in 5 spins, how much would you bet on 0´s to hit again
when it comes from 15 20 2 straight to 15 15 7 in 5 spins, how much would you bet on 0´s to hit
and if in that sequence 6 times 0´s hit normally and 6 already have hit, or 5 times 1´s should hit and 5 already have on what would you bet? Or would you give the probability a chance to do what it mostly likes: to hit anything at all
Yes. You right. I was looking at it from a different point of view. But at the end it boils down to there are too many different combinations to think about.
It's better and safer to do it as you playing and watching how numbers are falling.
I guess there is no easy way out for anyone but to study it deeply and understand where the number's came from and watch what's going on at the table and make a judgement call.
Like you said, if you unsure it's better not to bet. There will always be the next train to catch. :thumbsup:
I assume because of the tracker, this can/is only played on-line ?
If it is played at a B&M casino what bet is made when you have no bet with the GUT ?
Because at some tables you must bet every spin......
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 24, 09:21 AM 2014
I assume because of the tracker, this can/is only played on-line ?
If it is played at a B&M casino what bet is made when you have no bet with the GUT ?
Because at some tables you must bet every spin......
O0
if you willing to practice you can play it without a tracker.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 24, 05:31 PM 2014
if you willing to practice you can play it without a tracker.
Ok thank you :thumbsup:
So what about my second question pls....
"If it is played at a B&M casino what bet is made when you have no bet with the GUT ?
Because at some tables you must bet every spin......"
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 24, 05:37 PM 2014
Ok thank you :thumbsup:
So what about my second question pls....
"If it is played at a B&M casino what bet is made when you have no bet with the GUT ?
Because at some tables you must bet every spin......"
O0
All B&M casino's that I have played with friends and that I am aware of, you don't have to bet every spin. Never ran into that problem. Can't answer.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 23, 04:36 PM 2014
by the way the excel sheet only has a count of 1, 040, 436.
Winkel,
I stand corrected on this too. The number is right for 40,000,000 spins.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 24, 05:47 PM 2014
All B&M casino's that I have played with friends and that I am aware of, you don't have to bet every spin. Never ran into that problem. Can't answer.
Ok, fair enough.....
Finally have you played the GUT at a B&M casino ?
Thanking you in advance..... :thumbsup:
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 24, 06:05 PM 2014
Ok, fair enough.....
Finally have you played the GUT at a B&M casino ?
Thanking you in advance..... :thumbsup:
O0
Yes. I have played it. It's hard to keep track of it manually. But as Winkel said, we aren't playing every spin. There is enough time to look at whats going on .
My personal opinion it's for someone who has time, willing to put in time to learn it inside out.
Once you have done that, now look at it as going to work. It will make you money in the long run and short run.
You just have to have the patience and ability to understand what you tracking.
If you miss a bet, don't let it get to you. There will always be another bet to place round the corner.
ok thanks for answering, just one final thought.....
After getting answers from Winkel, were are you now with how to play this ?
1. I was playing incorrect & Winkel has put me on the right path.
2. I was playing correctly ish from the start !!!!
3. His answers have just mudded the waters & I'm more confused than ever....
I ask because it appears to me there is no right / wrong way to play this. The "human factor" makes all the difference.
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 24, 06:31 PM 2014
ok thanks for answering, just one final thought.....
After getting answers from Winkel, were are you now with how to play this ?
1. I was playing incorrect & Winkel has put me on the right path.
2. I was playing correctly ish from the start !!!!
3. His answers have just mudded the waters & I'm more confused than ever....
This to me makes no difference at all. Personally, When I first looked at it, I liked it and never went back to it.
The only reason I went deep into this the way I have. Is because Sam and BudskiiHD both claimed that they had lost. Made me wonder what Winkel had missed.
He hasn't missed anything. I personally think, HERB and the negativity got to Winkel.
Everyone was out trying to learn. There was no one to support him.
HERB had his mind set. No disrespect to HERB. But we wasn't understanding Winkel as to why Winkel was saying if this you watch for that. He as soon as he saw if and you do that, got on to Winkel, that you are now changing the rules. No Winkel wasn't changing the rules. He was telling everyone, what to look out for in order to avoid the losses.
Winkel was trying to educate everyone. He is still willing to educate us.
Just like my previous question to Winkel, he explained me why, what I wanted to do will not work.
And when I thought about it from his perspective he is right.
I ask because it appears to me there is no right / wrong way to play this. The "human factor" makes all the difference.
HUMAN FACTOR will always be involved in gambling. If you want to remove human factor from gambling you have to make it into a bot.
Short of the trackers we have. If this can be studied in depth like the way Winkel has done it for himself and shared with us the wisdom he has found. I think it will be a nice challenge for someone to bot this. I mean complete thinking from all aspect by the bot.
O0
thanks for the detailed reply :thumbsup:
Quote from: Azim on Jan 24, 07:09 PM 2014
HUMAN FACTOR will always be involved in gambling. If you want to remove human factor from gambling you have to make it into a bot.
People I think as a rule are looking for a method/system that DOESN'T have any human factor. A IF/THEN flow chart as it were......
Re : Bots, well if I ever found a grail I'd never bot it. Because the guy I paid to program it would have it as well..... :o
Happy hunting with the GUT, it looks too much like hard work for my simpleton mind :-[
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 24, 07:20 PM 2014
Happy hunting with the GUT, it looks too much like hard work
You can't expect the rewards if you don't study it and put in the hours. What is the betting that a few people have stuck with GUT since it appeared and slowly fine tuned it year by year to perfection at the expense of anything else. I suppose we will never know the answer to that one! (not even Mr Winkel himself)
All games of chance ebb and flow, even games played by AP players. Only by hours of study and research, will you find the right time to attack and when to leave well alone. Like a positive true count in BJ to finding the peak using VB.
Luck plays a secondary role compared to a players skill and the art of timing.
good luck and good timing!
Quote from: ugly bob on Jan 24, 08:30 PM 2014
You can't expect the rewards if you don't study it and put in the hours. What is the betting that a few people have stuck with GUT since it appeared and slowly fine tuned it year by year to perfection at the expense of anything else. I suppose we will never know the answer to that one! (not even Mr Winkel himself)
All games of chance ebb and flow, even games played by AP players. Only by hours of study and research, will you find the right time to attack and when to leave well alone. Like a positive true count in BJ to finding the peak using VB.
Luck plays a secondary role compared to a players skill and the art of timing.
good luck and good timing!
I couldn't agree more bob ;) I only stated it was too much hard work for me, & me alone..... :-[
I believe the simpler the system the better is all..... 8)
O0
Quote from: Azim on Jan 23, 04:36 PM 2014
by the way the excel sheet only has a count of 1, 040, 436.
Sorry, I mixed it up with another statistics that was run on 10 million spins.
Quote from: ddarko on Jan 24, 08:37 PM 2014
I couldn't agree more bob ;) I only stated it was too much hard work for me, & me alone..... :-[
I believe the simpler the system the better is all..... 8)
O0
You think that a complex system like probability can be beaten by a simple bet rule?
I never ever forced anyone to read or to learn or to play this. It is all free and open. So if you don´t like my way of looking at roulette you are welcome not to read but to leave.
If you have an simple system that works with you just play it and win.
QuoteIf you have an simple system that works with you just play it and win.
Well said. nothing wins mechanically unless u have millions of chips, willingness to lose that and a table spread allowing you unlimited bets.
Quote from: winkel on Jan 25, 04:11 AM 2014
Sorry, I mixed it up with another statistics that was run on 10 million spins.
That's ok. Will you have a problem sharing the number's for spin 24 or 26 both would be nice, but I will take whatever you can offer out of the 2.
I don´t have spin 24
so I give you Spin 26 and 27
Thank you.
Quote from: kingsroulette on Jan 25, 07:07 AM 2014
Well said. nothing wins mechanically unless u have millions of chips, willingness to lose that and a table spread allowing you unlimited bets.
Well not if your flat-betting
Albalaha Erm Kingsroulette.......
@ Winkel
Why do you take everything to heart ? I'm not knocking the GUT, ALL I said was it wasn't for me ;)
Quote from: Azim on Jan 25, 08:56 AM 2014
Thank you.
any questions, results, ideas?
any new test-results?
I have tried everything I can with spins 25,26,27 there seems no statistic that matches the pre-calculated numbers. Like we all know, next spin is independent, too many variables to deal with.
Nothing wrong with the number's you have provided. It's like you said, there is a a lot of combinations and it's hard to pre-determine them all.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 29, 09:42 AM 2014
I have tried everything I can with spins 25,26,27 there seems no statistic that matches the pre-calculated numbers. Like we all know, next spin is independent, too many variables to deal with.
Nothing wrong with the number's you have provided. It's like you said, there is a a lot of combinations and it's hard to pre-determine them all.
as you didn´t find any hints in that statistics let me give you a clou:
If you have that crossing 19 unhit to 18 hits ( a crossing we shouldn´t play) you will find different combinations with different appearances. Now check these out and try to find what is the difference in there hitrates in the next spin?
If you can´t see there what I mean. so scroll down to bottom of the list 25 and check the highest number of unhits (by the way it is 26). then check lists 26 and 27. then also check the numbers of 25 unhits.
br
winkel
Winkel, You have said, exactly what I was thinking. But looks like I either don't understand the number's you have sent or I am not concentrating enough due to other commitments at the moment.
When I do the tracking manually, I have a good hit rate. It's as you said, we can see a lot of things happening before the crossings. However, It's cumbersome to do it mechanically. I know it can be done. It's just a matter of time and paying close attention to the numbers. I am trying to work my way spin by spin to find all possible crossings at spins 25 not the result set. I mean crossings at every spin 25,26, and 27. After I find them , I can compare them to your 3 pages and find out.
Example. here is what I mean.
Spin 1: we know it will always be: 36 1
Now After spin 1 for spin 2 there will always be 2 possible results. 1) 35 2 or 36 0 1
Now After spin 2 for spin 3 there will always be 2 possible results: 1) 34 3 or 36 0 0 1
now keep doing that till we pass our first check point which is spin 13.. do it again till we get to our next check point 25 and do it again till 37 and finally 50.
Keeping track of all possible crossings. I am sure can't prove it yet, but example
if we have a crossing at spin 25 which is 0 vs 1 at 16 but >1 is at 3 and =2 is at 2 and >2 is at 1 may be thats the indication as to bet or not bet. Is what I am after.
or we could get a crossing 17 vs 17 but this time > 1 is at 5 or something.. Based on previous I know it is independent but statistics never lie. May be that's the crossing with right numbers of >1 =2 and >2 have to be for it to change and make it a favorable betting opportunity. I know you have done the work and have the data. But It's hard for me with just the 3 pages to follow anything. I thought it would be simple but it's not.
Winkel,
I think you know by now that i don't mind taking no as an answer.
By the way: I got this 3 crossing from a file i tried to look for crossings. Tried to run for spin 25 only.
Let's look at this 3 crossings at spin 25:
Question is do we bet or we don't?
Crossing 1: 17 16 3 1 0.
Crossing 2: 17 17 1 2 0.
Crossing 3: 17 17 2 0 1.
I am looking at your 25 spin page. Working my answer from that. I will give you the actual result. once we done discussing this. At the time of writing this I haven't checked, for reason is don't want to discuss something knowing what the out come
is.
This is based on the fact that number's on the right are the count that hit after facing the left result/crossing on page 25.
If the above is wrong. My observation below is useless. However, the concept is the same.
I look at Crossing 1 from your 25 page and get, 29728 times 0 hit, 27833 times 1 hit, 5184 times 2 hit and 1747 times 3 hit.
Crossing 2: 3491 times 0 hit, 3507 times 1 hit, 204 times 2 hit and 400 times 3 hit.
Crossing 3: 2719 times 0 hit, 2633 times 1 hit , 347 times 2 hit and 148 times 3 hit.
I AM IGNORING THE FACT OF 2.7% HOUSE ADVANTAGE.
I am going to rule crossing 2 out. Why, the 1's hit more than the 0's.
Crossing 3 I would not bet again. Even though the numbers show that 0's hit way often. Why look at 29000 compared to 2719.. The Ratio against spins observed is way way below.
if I look at crossing 1, 0's have hit more often than not. Also this is the first observation. at spin 25. We also have to analyze and see if we did miss on spin 26 did we hit on spin 27. If the hit difference on spin 27 is way ahead of spin 26 or vice versa. If we have to wait it out. We can't bet.
Considering every thing is right I would bet this crossing. WHY? because the hit rate of 29000 is way to high of a hit rate based on total observed spins. which is about 55%.(even though 55 at this stage is low, we will get better opportunity next spin maybe where the hit rate is way higher. Or 55% might be the highest. It all needs to be taken into account. I am not factoring in a lot for this discussion. trying to minimize to get to the point.
Winkel,
Don't take this the wrong way. But I think, who ever attempts to accomplish this this way, will have to use his / her own data and thinking.
Yes, I asked and you gave it to us. But after looking at this. Looks like one will have to work their way from spin 0 to 25 and note the path that was taken to reach the crossing observed at spin 25. Easier said than done.
I don't know how many more spins pages you have and are willing to share. I totally understand if you say no.
On the other hand, one will still have to run their own data to understand whats happening before making any conclusions.
Hi Azim,
lets do it step by step:
The first possible crossing over all is 19 - 18
The earliest spin after starting the trot is after spin 18.
That means there were 18 unhit in a row! no repeaters.
So therefore we call this trot fast! What do you expect after this rush? another unhit or seems it more possible that there will be 1´s to hit?
17 - 17 - 3 first appears at spin 23 so this trot is also fast.
therefore to control the "speed" I gave the steps for spin(s) 13 - 25 - 37 - and 50
If trots are fast, don´t bet the early crossings
if trots are slow don´t bet the late crossings
What I wanted you to see is:
at spin 25 we have
26 2 4 5
26 2 5 3 1
26 3 2 6
26 3 3 4 1
26 3 4 2 2
26 4 1 5 1
26 4 4 1 2
26 5 1 4 1
26 5 2 1 2 1
26 5 2 2 1 1
26 5 2 3 1
26 6 4 1
at spin 26 we have
26 2 4 4 1 0 0 0
26 3 2 5 1 0 0 0
26 4 3 2 0 2 0 0
26 5 1 3 1 0 1 0
26 5 1 4 0 0 0 1
26 5 2 1 1 2 0 0
at spin 27 we have
26 3 1 6 1 0 0
I think I understand your explanation.
I will see if I can analyze it that way.
Quote from: winkel on Jan 31, 09:54 AM 2014
What I wanted you to see is:
at spin 25 we have
26 2 4 5
26 2 5 3 1
26 3 2 6
26 3 3 4 1
26 3 4 2 2
26 4 1 5 1
26 4 4 1 2
26 5 1 4 1
26 5 2 1 2 1
26 5 2 2 1 1
26 5 2 3 1
26 6 4 1
at spin 26 we have
26 2 4 4 1 0 0 0
26 3 2 5 1 0 0 0
26 4 3 2 0 2 0 0
26 5 1 3 1 0 1 0
26 5 1 4 0 0 0 1
26 5 2 1 1 2 0 0
at spin 27 we have
26 3 1 6 1 0 0
Winkel,
I tried looking at this. Spent 2 days. This makes no sense.
You can have at spin 25 -> 12 different combination of result set.
At spin 26-> this should change to become more than 12-> it can't go below 12 or stay at 12.(i am saying stay at 12 because you have =2 to =8 or =9) this has to go up can't go down or stay even. Your spin 26 has got only 6 from 12...Something wrong.
At spin 27 -> Even worse, it has dropped to 1. It's not even possible.
The number of result set is supposed to increase with every spin not decrease or be even.
The only way it can actually stay even is if you minimize your elements( meaning =1, =2, =3 , =4 , = 5, =6 ,= 7) if i drop that to =1,=2 i can understand same number but it shouldn't drop.
Are you sure we comparing the data from the same analysis of spin 25?
QuoteThe number of result set is supposed to increase with every spin not decrease or be even.
No!
look at spin 1:
you have 37 0 0 0 0 0 at the beginning
after the first spin 36 1 0 0 0 0
after the second spin 35 2 0 0 0 0 or 36 0 1 0 0 0
after the 3. spin: 34 3 0 0 0 0 or 35 1 1 0 0 0 or 36 0 0 1 0 0
at spin 25 we have only 26 unhit left at spin 27 they disappeared at all.
same at the end and the beginning of the stats.
And same in the middle of any statistical range:
14 unhit earliest appear after spin 23.
from then on they will disappear by 14/37 and stand by 23/37
and renew themselfs by 15/37of the amount of 15 .. ..
imagine you have 1000 times 14 unhit at spin 23
you know exactly that there will be 378 hits of that 14 numbers in the next spin.
you know exactly that there will be 235 hits of that 14 numbers in the next spin out of the 1000
in total:
24 1000 378,3783784
25 621,6216216 235,2081812
26 386,4134405 146,210491
27 240,2029495 90,88760251
28 149,315347 56,49769885
29 92,81764812 35,12019118
30 57,69745694 21,83147019
31 35,86598675 13,5709139
32 22,29507284 8,435973508
33 13,85909933 5,243983532
34 8,615115802 3,259773547
35 5,355342256 2,026345718
36 3,328996537 1,259620311
37 2,069376226 0,783007221
38 1,286369005 0,486734218
39 0,799634787 0,302564514
40 0,497070273 0,188080644
41 0,308989629 0,116914995
42 0,192074634 0,072676889
43 0,119397746 0,045177525
44 0,07422022 0,028083327
45 0,046136894 0,017457203
46 0,028679691 0,010851775
47 0,017827916 0,006745698
48 0,011082218 0,004193272
49 0,006888946 0,002606628
50 0,004282318 0,001620337
51 0,002661981 0,001007236
52 0,001654745 0,00062612
53 0,001028625 0,00038921
54 0,000639416 0,000241941
55 0,000397475 0,000150396
now you can see (calculate) at what spin all these 1000 groups of 14unhit after spin 23 will have disappeard.
Thank you. Now I think I probably was doing it wrong.
Let me ask you this, If we have 37 spins.
we do statistics on 37 spins we get:
spin 23: 20 '0' and 17 '>0' (there is also other possibility, but we get this in average)
spin 25: 18 '0' and 19 '>0' (there is also other possibility, but we get this in average)
Now we are playing.. if at spin 24: we get this: 20 14 1 1 1
I know we don't bet any thing over 17.
Just for this example. Since we know we are behind by 2 '0' from average, can we not play the 0 to hit for next 2 spins? Or will that be a bad decision?
Quote from: Azim on Feb 05, 10:54 AM 2014
Now we are playing.. if at spin 24: we get this: 20 14 1 1 1
Just for this example. Since we know we are behind by 2 '0' from average, can we not play the 0 to hit for next 2 spins? Or will that be a bad decision?
we can´t do a decision only on these informations!
When did the 1 1 1 appear?
at the very beginning on that trot or somewhere in between or just before spin 24?
we could bet that 20 only if the repeaters all/mainly appeared in the last 6-8 spins
otherwise I would bet on that 14 1s for 2 spins
br
winkel
Hi Azim,
I think what Mr Winkel is saying is what got us to 1 1 1 the hidden formula,
Mr winkel I am still struggling how to dictate what is classed for a fast trot or slow?
Koolkat
Quote from: KoolKat on Feb 05, 02:10 PM 2014
Hi Azim,
I think what Mr Winkel is saying is what got us to 1 1 1 the hidden formula,
Mr winkel I am still struggling how to dictate what is classed for a fast trot or slow?
Koolkat
I realize that. What I am after is to try and create basic statistics as to what is reliable.
Example: if I was going from A(20) to B(18). I don't want to worry about taking route from A(20) to C(20) to B(19), or taking route A(20) to D(19) to B(18).
What I am saying is from spin 1 to spin 37. There has to be a favorable crossing that can be hit on a spin for a chance of 2 spins.
In my example: i was waiting to be behind by 2 '0's and than bet from 2 spins.
I know Winkel, is saying can't do that.
I am saying, if out of 100 identical chances If I can hit 90-95% of the time without worrying about the 1 1 1 thats a good crossing to bet over a long period of time. You have to wait for that crossing. It becomes a long grind. If you now pick 5-6 good spins ant there stats it becomes a worthy grind.
All I am after is if i am going from A to B. As long as I can reach B within 2 stops I am good.
Azim, Sorry if I was stating the obvious, I have looked at many of spins trying looking at the same way but it is to Systematic. I was trying to illustrate that spin before last:
if R is doing its job
if N is doing its job
if >N is doing its job
Koolkat
Quote from: Azim on Feb 05, 02:28 PM 2014
.., if out of 100 identical chances If I can hit 90-95% of the time without worrying about the 1 1 1
....
All I am after is if i am going from A to B. As long as I can reach B within 2 stops I am good.
you have to worry about that 1 1 1, otherwise you can´t reach the 95% hitrate.
don´t try to make it shorter as I explained. Otherwise you will add yourself to the people who claim that GUT doesn´t work.
again:
KonFuSed proofed that every possible crossing ends up at -2.7%. That is correct and it has to be that way otherwise GUT wouldn´t work if we couldn´t trust in that.
but he checked every crossing despite where/when it appeared.
If you look at my statistics you will see, that the rare situations have a better hitrate than the "normal".
What we have to do is to separate the losing crossings from the winning ones.
If we can define a crossing it might hit. We bet on it.
If we can´t do so, we are able to bet the other positions even if they ar not a crossing, or we better bet on crossings like 5 vs 6.
With my above explanation we know, that e.g. the situation 14 23 could last from spin 24 to spin 39.
to do that it has to have hits on 1s and then also on 2s, 3s etc. in the most spins
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on Feb 05, 03:48 PM 2014
you have to worry about that 1 1 1, otherwise you can´t reach the 95% hitrate.
don´t try to make it shorter as I explained. Otherwise you will add yourself to the people who claim that GUT doesn´t work.
Winkel,
Be assured, I will never say that. I know for a fact it does work. I am willing to put my money on it.
What I am trying to find is an easier way out. I guess there isn't.
I have a question in respect to your data. I know you have mentioned you have from spin 25 to spin 50.
Was your data analysed based on 1-50 and 51-100 or 1-50, 2-51, 3-52.....49-98, 50-99 and 51-100.
I wonder if it would make any difference? I think it shouldn't make any difference, I could be wrong ...Am I?
Quote from: winkel on Feb 05, 03:58 PM 2014
again:
KonFuSed proofed that every possible crossing ends up at -2.7%. That is correct and it has to be that way otherwise GUT wouldn´t work if we couldn´t trust in that.
but he checked every crossing despite where/when it appeared.
I think you have said this. if the trot is fast we don't bet. so you can't compare that. The only way to over come the -2.7% is to grind down to a perfect betting opportunity. With GUT it is doable but will become a very long grind. But the end result is worth it for the grind.
If you look at my statistics you will see, that the rare situations have a better hitrate than the "normal".
This is what I am looking for, how often do the come is a trot of 50?
What we have to do is to separate the losing crossings from the winning ones.
If we can define a crossing it might hit. We bet on it.
If we can´t do so, we are able to bet the other positions even if they ar not a crossing, or we better bet on crossings like 5 vs 6.
With my above explanation we know, that e.g. the situation 14 23 could last from spin 24 to spin 39.
to do that it has to have hits on 1s and then also on 2s, 3s etc. in the most spins
br
winkel
Quote from: Azim on Feb 05, 04:32 PM 2014
What I am trying to find is an easier way out. I guess there isn't. absolutely not
Was your data analysed based on 1-50 and 51-100 or 1-50, 2-51, 3-52.....49-98, 50-99 and 51-100.
I wonder if it would make any difference? I think it shouldn't make any difference, I could be wrong ...Am I?
In Roulette anything can happen and will never know at which point you are getting into the game. It could be spin 56 or 119.
But there is always a winning streak inbetween 37 spins. If you come into a losing one, then just try to jump into a winning streak.
And please don´t bet down to spin 50 or even more spins. Stop in a and restart. Or if you are unsure, just jump!
Don´t bet before spin 25 (as long as you are not able to read every possible sequence.
Winkel and all gents,
I ve come across Winkel's GUT around a month ago, tried it out on DB with a little profit but frequently struggling whether to bet or not. Perhaps some questions would have to be addressed.
Please kindly comment on what i am doing and thinking.
If the trot comes
spin 0 1 >1
26 19 13 5
27 18 14 5
28 17 15 5
29 16 16 5
generally I will see one more spin, if the 1's column (N) hits then (16-15-6), I would bet the crossing.
If the trot comes
spin 0 1 >1
25 16 20 1
26 16 19 2
27 16 18 3
28 16 17 4
29 16 16 5
I would definitely bet because it is expected to have around 6 unhit number (R) getting hit from spin 25 to spin 37, since there are only 8 spins left (37-29), the probability of hitting a unhit column (R) is around 6/8, which is quite high. (But I have seen some trot where R column sleeps till 40+ spins.....)
Should I give it up or jump when I am facing situation 1 that there is any uncertainty until I have got trot like situation 2? But it takes lots of time waiting because I only played in live online casino
Winkel, do you recommend using Track4 -1 function for jumping? (which is backtrack last 20 spins)
I found it not very difficult determining whether to bet or not for the unhit column (R) vs 1, but when it comes to 1 vs >1 or even 0 vs >1, I felt frustrated sometimes because I always guess wrongly... especially when double crossings appear like 13 12 12 or 13 13 12. Also, I noticed that it is quite difficult to make decision when spin number gets greater simply because there are more crossings appearing.
Winkel, you 've mentioned we have to pay attention to spin 13, 25, 37 in tracking the relative speed of the trot, and you said that if the trot is fast, try not to bet early crossings and vice versa. I reckon it is only usable for the unhit column (R), is there any tracking method for 1's column? (what I mean is how are you going to determine whether there will be a lot of repeaters)
Do you suggest betting 2 vs >2 or 2 vs 3 or 1 vs >2 within 50 spins? As the number are generally quite small. (Which in turn means the chance of hitting them is not that high, but I know that it has to cross, so I am now paying more attention on whole number vs >number, i.e. 0 vs >1, 1 vs >1, 1 vs >2, 2 vs >2, but often I have a hit on them after 6-7 bets and sometimes it stays there till spin 50 making me to cut loss, what's your opinion on that?)
It would be good of having a copy of the statistic you've organized in order to compare what i am seeing and the previous spin result (a million spins simply cant be ignored right?)
regards,
samson
Quote from: samson on Feb 07, 11:32 AM 2014
Winkel and all gents,
I ve come across Winkel's GUT around a month ago, tried it out on DB with a little profit but frequently struggling whether to bet or not. Perhaps some questions would have to be addressed.
Please kindly comment on what i am doing and thinking.
If the trot comes
spin 0 1 >1
26 19 13 5
27 18 14 5
28 17 15 5
29 16 16 5
generally I will see one more spin, if the 1's column (N) hits then (16-15-6), I would bet the crossing.
If the trot comes
spin 0 1 >1
25 16 20 1
26 16 19 2
27 16 18 3
28 16 17 4
29 16 16 5
I would definitely bet because it is expected to have around 6 unhit number (R) getting hit from spin 25 to spin 37, since there are only 8 spins left (37-29), the probability of hitting a unhit column (R) is around 6/8, which is quite high. (But I have seen some trot where R column sleeps till 40+ spins.....)
Personally I would bet, just like you said. However, keep in mind anything can happen. I can assure you this, you might have a losing session cause of bad judgment or an outside factor called LUCK. If you stay, the key is, if you stay consistent with your judgment and not repeat your bad calls by noting them down, LUCK will not play part over the long term.
That's why, Winkel has said keep note of your decisions and the out come for every crossing with there spins and use it to make a better judgment next time around. This is one system that has to be mastered. It's not simple like an even chance wait for so many spins and bet the opposite.
Should I give it up or jump when I am facing situation 1 that there is any uncertainty until I have got trot like situation 2? But it takes lots of time waiting because I only played in live online casino
Winkel, do you recommend using Track4 -1 function for jumping? (which is backtrack last 20 spins)
I would use 3 score cards start 1 at spin 1 second one at spin 13 and third one at spin 25. and keep adding and throw away the first one. This way you have a flow of spins. It's not like you betting every spin hopefully not, you have enough time to track 3 cards.
I found it not very difficult determining whether to bet or not for the unhit column (R) vs 1, but when it comes to 1 vs >1 or even 0 vs >1, I felt frustrated sometimes because I always guess wrongly... especially when double crossings appear like 13 12 12 or 13 13 12. Also, I noticed that it is quite difficult to make decision when spin number gets greater simply because there are more crossings appearing.
That's why if you read is full blown explanation on the system. Winkel, has said, keep a diary on all crossing you face and write them down to for your decision next time around, if you lose 4-5 times on that crossing the next one has a good chance to hit.
Winkel, you 've mentioned we have to pay attention to spin 13, 25, 37 in tracking the relative speed of the trot, and you said that if the trot is fast, try not to bet early crossings and vice versa. I reckon it is only usable for the unhit column (R), is there any tracking method for 1's column? (what I mean is how are you going to determine whether there will be a lot of repeaters)
Do you suggest betting 2 vs >2 or 2 vs 3 or 1 vs >2 within 50 spins? As the number are generally quite small. (Which in turn means the chance of hitting them is not that high, but I know that it has to cross, so I am now paying more attention on whole number vs >number, i.e. 0 vs >1, 1 vs >1, 1 vs >2, 2 vs >2, but often I have a hit on them after 6-7 bets and sometimes it stays there till spin 50 making me to cut loss, what's your opinion on that?)
It would be good of having a copy of the statistic you've organized in order to compare what i am seeing and the previous spin result (a million spins simply can't be ignored right?)
You have to remember, Winkel, can correct me if I am wrong. The more crossing you can play the better are your chances in avoiding a losing session. If you only going to play 0VS1 or 0 VS >1, the house edge of -2.7% will get you for sure. IF YOU THINK ITS NOT GOOD JUMP. By the way, I did discuss about the stats, I know what you looking for, cause I thought of it the same way. Winkel is right, we will lose more playing with the stats. By looking at whats happening to the number's if you are unsure don't bet. There will always be the next opportunity.
By using pre-calculated stats, there is a very very good chance of people clamming this is a losing system.
If you decide not to play a crossing, write down what the result was. If you see 4-5 croosing have lost, even though you haven't played them before play them now. I hope you understand what I am saying.
regards,
samson
I am hoping I have answered your main concerns.
QuoteI would use 3 score cards start 1 at spin 1 second one at spin 13 and third one at spin 25. and keep adding and throw away the first one. This way you have a flow of spins. It's not like you betting every spin hopefully not, you have enough time to track 3 cards.
How would you do if first tracker shows crossing on "2 column" vs ">2 column" while the second tracker shows crossing on "0 column" vs "1 column" at around spin 40? Would you bet both?
Also could you please show me how would you keep a diary of you virtual or actual bet.
Thanks
Regards,
Samson
Quote from: samson on Feb 07, 11:32 AM 2014
Winkel and all gents,
I ve come across Winkel's GUT around a month ago, tried it out on DB with a little profit but frequently struggling whether to bet or not. Perhaps some questions would have to be addressed.
Please kindly comment on what i am doing and thinking.
If the trot comes
spin 0 1 >1
26 19 13 5
27 18 14 5
28 17 15 5
29 16 16 5
generally I will see one more spin, if the 1's column (N) hits then (16-15-6), I would bet the crossing.
If the trot comes
spin 0 1 >1
25 16 20 1
26 16 19 2
27 16 18 3
28 16 17 4
29 16 16 5
I would definitely bet because it is expected to have around 6 unhit number (R) getting hit from spin 25 to spin 37, since there are only 8 spins left (37-29), the probability of hitting a unhit column (R) is around 6/8, which is quite high. (But I have seen some trot where R column sleeps till 40+ spins.....)
as you can see YOU make a decision. This no strategy with millions of if...then-Rules. It is just finding a betpoint an then decide to bet or not.
Should I give it up or jump when I am facing situation 1 that there is any uncertainty until I have got trot like situation 2? But it takes lots of time waiting because I only played in live online casino.
You can´t hurry it. you have to play what this strategy allows to you. every bet you don´t bet saves your bankroll, every jump you make gives you a jump from a trot you can´t read to one you CAN read.
Winkel, do you recommend using Track4 -1 function for jumping? (which is backtrack last 20 spins)
either that or you just use the numeric block to enter the last 13 15 or 10 spins.
I found it not very difficult determining whether to bet or not for the unhit column (R) vs 1, but when it comes to 1 vs >1 or even 0 vs >1, I felt frustrated sometimes because I always guess wrongly
so just remember this and stop betting on these until you notice a streak of selecting the right decision
... especially when double crossings appear like 13 12 12 or 13 13 12. Also, I noticed that it is quite difficult to make decision when spin number gets greater simply because there are more crossings appearing.
I often see people playing till spin 50. Why don´t you stop in a win >10 and just jump or restart and look if yodu can read that new trot. if not jump again.
Winkel, you 've mentioned we have to pay attention to spin 13, 25, 37 in tracking the relative speed of the trot, and you said that if the trot is fast, try not to bet early crossings and vice versa. I reckon it is only usable for the unhit column (R), is there any tracking method for 1's column? (what I mean is how are you going to determine whether there will be a lot of repeaters)
as I defined: the 0s are going strictly down (they are the only ones doing this)
the >x numbers are climbing steadily
all full numbers are going up, stay or wave for a while and then go down to zero again look at the graphs at VLS. If you understand you will know when the turn is taken
Do you suggest betting 2 vs >2 or 2 vs 3 or 1 vs >2 within 50 spins? As the number are generally quite small. (Which in turn means the chance of hitting them is not that high, but I know that it has to cross, so I am now paying more attention on whole number vs >number, i.e. 0 vs >1, 1 vs >1, 1 vs >2, 2 vs >2, but often I have a hit on them after 6-7 bets and sometimes it stays there till spin 50 making me to cut loss, what's your opinion on that?)
I always said: play it in Fun-Modus or watching spins in Live-Roulette or take actuals from BMc-actuals like Wiesbaden, Dortmund and others and try to find a way through the jungle
It would be good of having a copy of the statistic you've organized in order to compare what i am seeing and the previous spin result (a million spins simply can't be ignored right?)
again: this million spins are unique and have no meaning to the next millions of spins.
on the other hand some copied my strategy and sold them. I don´t wanna give them more information to sell.
regards,
samson
br
winkel
Thanks for the post.could you allow us all more detailed take on your participate in? The quantity of periods will be your some day end result? As well as how big is bankroll that you just participate in together with?
First of all I would like to say one big THANKS to Winkel and Azim, guys you did a really good job here, and put a lot effort in this, good will I can say, and a lot of spend time.
For the rest of beginners, it need some time to get the good balance between lose and win streak, but it is possible, I play few days, and I realized that there is some really good points when you can, and need, to bet. Still learning, I am not satisfied.
Any way, I am not sure that this thread is live(with those two guys), but I would like to share my experience with GUT, and if some of you guys still there, please take a look and give some feedback, comment, or whatever.
I play with real spins, from bet-at-home, and here is the results:
There is my last 10 sessions, and my goal is to win 100 units in 100 spins, never past 100+- spins.
My win at the end was +459 units, 8/10 wins of sessions, not so bad, but I am sure that this might be much more better, especially because I have my own system which bring me more units for this amount of spins, but also need more bank to play(later maybe I will explain it).
From my short experience with GUT, I really realize and notice what exactly Winkel and Azim speak about, about facts and experience, when and where to bet, and the right decisions you need to do. It is not so hard, I look and analyse through 30-50 spins and then I am ready to attack. ;)
This is example from 8. session, there you can see my winning strike and my decision, how I bet on this:
1. 15-15-7-6-1-1-0 (I bet and win) My decision to bet on 15 was because of: 7+6+1+1=15
2. 15-14-8-7-1-1-0 (I bet and lose)
3. 15-13-9-8-1-1-0 (I bet and win)
4. 14-14-9-8-1-1-0 (I bet and win)
.
.
.
.
xx. 13-17-7-4-3-3-0 (I bet and win) This is same example like 1. one (7+4+3+3=17)
...and here is spins of 10 sessions(what I play), so if some of you ask and want to analyse it, play or whatever.
Guys! I play more and more, this is fantastic. I realize a lot of things there so I reduce my loses and increase a lot my winning, practically more then 3 times now, so in ~100 spins now I have 200+ units in some of session. This is truly Holy Grail system. :)
One really good way is to add progression, and of course look what happened with the numbers, so for example if I lose more then 4 times I switch to another group of numbers and bet there with continue of progressions. This is awesome system really.
My progression is 1-1-1-2-3-5, I almost never past this progression, it depends of amount of numbers of course, so this progression is most popular in my tests. Only one time I go to 8 units per numbers, but it was really almost one time.
In next few days I will post my results with next 10 sessions. It was abnormal increase, I am happy.
Winkel, thank you once again!! !
I wish I understood this, lol.
Been some time since last time i tried G.U.T
Got some nice results but had to stop for a while and after that I didn't had the "head" to go back on it.
I still remembered most of the stuff and I've read everything back, but there are a couple of "key points" that I fear i'm not getting right.
I would appreciate a lot if Winkel or anyone else could help me out :)
When winkel says:
"If trots are fast, don´t BET the early crossings
if trots are slow don´t BET the late crossings"
I know what fast and slow trots are and how to analyze it, but what does he mean here by early/late crossings?
"when it comes from 20 10 7 straight to 15 15 7 in 5 spins, would you BET on 0´s to hit again?" Just based on this information i would not.
"when it comes from 15 20 2 straight to 15 15 7 in 5 spins, would you BET on 0´s to hit?" I would bet here, especially if on the first check points the trot was fast (as I think 0's would catch up again)
and here for example:
"trot is fast, because there were no repeaters in the 13 first numbers
So be careful BETTING 1´s "
I really don't understand this statement winkel made. if we had so many 0's hits in a row I would be careful here BETTING on 0's. I would probably wait for a repeater to show up and start betting on 1's when a crossing appeared.
What is your opinion here?
Thanks in advance,
Afonso
"trot is fast, because there were no repeaters in the 13 first numbers
So be careful BETTING 1´s " |
Hi alonso,
you did understand everthing right.
for the quote:
As you remember I divided the trot by 13, 25, 37, to50
If 1st part 1- 13 is fast, don´t bet 1´s (because 0´s are likely to appear again)
Watch 2nd part 14 - 25 if it is fast, or slowing down, or 1´s start to to hit
Watch 3rd part 26 - 37 best part to play but watch refering to your first questions
in short: try to adupt the trend whether a few numbers or a lot of numbers will appear in 37-50 coups
br
winkel
Winkel,
Here is your theory in play.
I really appreciate your help on this.
For the rest of you. Practice practice and more practice.
link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!221&authkey=!AAf9tgNhPDRYhV8&ithint=video%2cmp4
azim the link is not working or expired?
Quote from: 6th-sense on Aug 24, 02:34 AM 2014
azim the link is not working or expired?
Lets try this one:
link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!223&authkey=!AFC-DEHqWoZV-b8&ithint=video%2cmp4
@Azim,
Is this (in the video) session played with RNG?
I tought this strategy is for real roulette only. :question:
Quote from: Normy2000 on Aug 24, 10:27 AM 2014
@Azim,
Is this (in the video) session played with RNG?
I tought this strategy is for real roulette only. :question:
Like Winkel said... " It can work anywhere and it should work anywhere...."
With all respect the respect to Winkel.
I am not out to sell any thing pertaining to GUT...
So please stop sending me messages in respect to GUT...
Quote from: Azim on Aug 24, 12:41 PM 2014
With all respect the respect to Winkel.
I am not out to sell any thing pertaining to GUT...
So please stop sending me messages in respect to GUT...
I should re-phrase that and say, in respect to the GUT-BOT,
I think , Winkel has been very open to all. All I have done is read his thread for the last 8-9 months and made it into reality for you all to realize that you had been sitting on a Holy-Grail.
I would have been selfish , if I hadn't exposed this bot to you all.
I am sure none, none of you can afford to pay me the time I have put into this.
Just like Winkel, I went through even worse, I went through 219,000,000 random numbers to get to this stage of the bot.
I will try and answer general questions in respect to GUT but not the bot.
Quote from: Azim on Aug 23, 05:07 PM 2014
Winkel,
Here is your theory in play.
I really appreciate your help on this.
For the rest of you. Practice practice and more practice.
link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!221&authkey=!AAf9tgNhPDRYhV8&ithint=video%2cmp4
Hi Azim, i watched the video, but couldn´t see very much.
As far as I saw, to find the crossing is not the problem.
But I didn´t say bet with progressions.
On the other hand you didn´t bet long enough sometimes.
If you bet 11 numbers you can bet 3 times
If you bet 8 numbers you can bet 4 times (if necessary.
Do you have any further questions for the hints or rules?
br
winkel
Yes you are right. I didn't bet enough at times.
The betting is supposed to be no progression.
Playing is :
2 numbers 18 spins.
3 numbers 12 spins
4 numbers 9 spins.
I didn't want to go into that details. Just was out to show people this is a holy-grail.
Well, it's all done for now.
I will let everyone decide what they want to do. You have showed them a way it's up to them to learn and enjoy.
Mmmmm....y remember this system. Its very good. :thumbsup:
Better if it can be adapted to streets or splits, maybe smaller bankroll it is needed.
Quote from: jarabo002 on Aug 27, 06:47 AM 2014
Mmmmm....y remember this system. Its very good. :thumbsup:
Better if it can be adapted to streets or splits, maybe smaller bankroll it is needed.
When will they ever learn?
I said it only works on Plein/Straight up.
Someone tried to adapt it to finales or to streets, it didn´t work at all.
And if you don´t have the bankroll, don´t play it and don´t win.
If you have a small bankroll better go and have a nice meal or drinks, but don´t play roulette!
Gawdd...what a grump
Looks like Doc Martin....sounds like Doc Martin
Quote from: winkel on Aug 27, 01:23 PM 2014
When will they ever learn?
I said it only works on Plein/Straight up.
Someone tried to adapt it to finales or to streets, it didn´t work at all.
And if you don´t have the bankroll, don´t play it and don´t win.
If you have a small bankroll better go and have a nice meal or drinks, but don´t play roulette!
Winkel,
You too polite.
I was going to say save the money while you learning the system and play once you get to know the system.
Like you said, it only needs a bankroll of 400-500 units lifetime if you play it right.
If you unsure don't bet.. You won't lose your bankroll.
so...enjoy for your wealth y no jodan más!
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Quote from: Azim on Aug 24, 06:08 PM 2014
I should re-phrase that and say, in respect to the GUT-BOT,
I think , Winkel has been very open to all. All I have done is read his thread for the last 8-9 months and made it into reality for you all to realize that you had been sitting on a Holy-Grail.
I would have been selfish , if I hadn't exposed this bot to you all.
I am sure none, none of you can afford to pay me the time I have put into this.
Just like Winkel, I went through even worse, I went through 219,000,000 random numbers to get to this stage of the bot.
I will try and answer general questions in respect to GUT but not the bot.
Hello,
do I get it right you are saying that you created a BOT that plays GUT method, tested it on 219 million spins and it ended in plus? Or maybe better say the more spins played the bigger the won amount?
What I said was in went through 219,000,000 random numbers to make my bot a winning bot.
The method/system that has been presented by Winkel is a sure winner.
Only obstacle I can see from this system/method is the ability to be able to read the crossings.
Some will claim the above statement goes true for any system. I defer to agree because this system/ method is based on an event that has to take place. It could be a crossing at 1 or a crossing at 2,
It's not something someone can present to another on a silver platter.
It's all practice and making yourself avoid mistakes. If unsure don't bet. As said by Winkel.
Has anyone actually tested this system over a million spins and if so can you post the results? Has anyone come up with a list of rules for every situation or tried to document every different situation inside one document? Besides the Cross Checker and Tracker software, has anyone actually designed a software yet that plays this system for us and makes all the right decisions for us based on what winkel would have recommended? Did winkel ever release his 10+ million spin results? (that would have shown exactly what winkel did in different situations), etc, etc. Finally, is this winkel's best system? Or do his other systems make profit quicker?
Hi im new on this forum, followed many german forums as i am a dutch guy. Since 2 years im following betselection, vls and this forum. Doing roulette now for about 4 years and seen the GUT on a few german and english forums come by. I do think falkor has a point here, the gut is and was never a very clear method it seems always as i call it a " foggy" method with no clear rules and explanation. I think it deserves to be checked again and tested more. I believe it can be one of the best systems on the internet if you can make some good rules and money management on it. Same as the granpaaa's way. Did test it few times and was shocked how the numbers hit time after time.
Grtzz R
Foums are not a place to research for information about solid systems and their methods.
Vheckout some printed books by reputable gambling authos Just to name a few: Brett Morto, John Patrick, Frank Scoblete , and a host of ithers at AMAZON.
Dor the past 12 years I am taking peeks into forums but I have never , and would have never chosen and GOD forbid played any of those " systems". They are all BELOW my standards..
It is not how much you win but how little you lose. This way the winnings take care of themselves.
For recreational purposes only. Play at your own risk.
Patronizing Casinos for over 33 years.
Tamino
I guess winkel's system will be my next project.... a lot of reverse engineering to do over that 80 page topic. Somebody who posted in the earlier pages of this topic has made the task somewhat easier (re-attached below).
First thing that comes to mind - though I haven't really thought about it deeply enough - is if you have a snapshot of a graph/tracker log (as well as past spin data) at the point where all these lines are crossing, can you go back in time to the last 20 or so spins to see how the graph initially looked when the red line (unhit) and the pink line (hit) were at 37 and 0, respectively? If that concept is true, as I imagine it might be, then I should be able to script "multiple" graphs happening simultaneously so that bets can be placed each and every spin to increase profits - should the system really work in the long run, that is.
TwoCatSam did some videos and lots of study.
I will study the GUT more and post some results later.
Where did twocatsam go? i liked his video explanations.
Maybe its an idea to start with a 600 unit BR an devide this in 150 unit playsessions and try to aim for 39+ units and then stop/change table.
grtzz R
I tried to view those videos, but never saw a single one, since he never uploaded any to Youtube AFAIK. They have all expired now.
Have you seen this one Falkor.
T4 Tutorial 1 (link:://:.youtube.com/watch?v=agwjlCN_XQs#)
It was right at the bottom and Sam is explaining how he uses Droidman's tracker.
It might give some more insights into what he was doing.
There is this one and a second tutorial. (both around 30 mins)
These two tutorials are very good from Sam for anybody trying to get their head around the GUT methodology.
You have to laugh at the second video. Sam is playing live at what looks like a really dodgy casino.
The dealer spins the ball with just a little push and the ball only goes around the wheel about three times. :xd: I remember thinking years ago that I wouldn't fancy my chances playing there.
Thanks Bob - that's perfect - just what I was looking for! :thumbsup: Do you know if there was a topic somewhere about GUT that was longer than the 80 page one?
Quote from: falkor on Oct 07, 02:22 PM 2014
Do you know if there was a topic somewhere about GUT that was longer than the 80 page one?
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0)
Some classic Xander/Snowman post disruptions to endure (Herb)
Falkor, there is not a lot on GUT apart from VLS and what's here. I checked out some of the German forums because I though they might be some discussions there, but nothing that I can find.
edit: I got some maths wrong in a point I was trying to make. My mistake. :-[
Quote from: ugly bob on Oct 07, 03:41 PM 2014
Falkor, there is not a lot on GUT apart from VLS and what's here. I checked out some of the German forums because I though they might be some discussions there, but nothing that I can find.
edit: I got some maths wrong in a point I was trying to make. My mistake. :-[
I think Winkel mentioned somewhere that GUT is only part of big system that he has. And that the whole system is explained on some german forum. I also think he provided link to the forum with his system.
WHO has ever played this system in a very busy B & M Casino at a croupier attented wheel. .
Tamino
I watched both the TwoCatSam videos, but am not really liking this system at all. You could be waiting all day for a crossing even if they are "in sight". And I think you could be waiting days for a crossing of >2,>3. Crossings are guaranteed - sure - but there's no timescales as to when they will cross.
Does anyone know roughly when a session ends on GUT? Do all crossings cease after a certain event? How can you tell when there are no more crossing to pursue? Or is this determined by some other stop loss/stop win method?
Quote from: Rewster88 on Oct 06, 11:17 AM 2014
... the gut is and was never a very clear method it seems always as i call it a " foggy" method with no clear rules and explanation. .... I believe it can be one of the best systems on the internet if you can make some good rules and money management on it. Same as the granpaaa's way. Did test it few times and was shocked how the numbers hit time after time.
Grtzz R
To All,
If "wait for a crossing and bet on it" is a foggy rule, I can+t help.
every other day day someone appears and blames it being stupid. So what?
I gave such a lot of explanations and examples when and what to do. Who is able to read an to understand will gain from it.
as I said: it needs gambler´s intelligence. No program is able to have it, not yet!
What do you wanna hear?
- it passed 355 million spins with a profit of 500 million units?
- it passed 10 000 spins with a profit of one unit?
- it passed 300 000 spins with a loss of 10 units?
What will all these answers tell you?
Which Answer will make you play this strategy?
which answer will make you understand even the basics?
which answer will make you win?
only this will give you any usable message: Read, learn, try to understand, look what is going on. And then test it, test it, test it over and over again. I you get the idea behind it, you will have it.
If you want a free strategy with a bot and starting bankroll 1ct always winning never losing nor going in a bad streak then just leave this alone.
I never forced anyone to follow it or to play it. I even said, there are streaks where you can´t read or follow the spins.
So don´t judged something you didn´t understand.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 08, 12:52 PM 2014
Does anyone know roughly when a session ends on GUT?
if there is no crossing there is no bet.
Do all crossings cease after a certain event?
not a certain but they will
How can you tell when there are no more crossing to pursue? Or is this determined by some other stop loss/stop win method?
if there are 2unhit and 2onehit left are you sure you wanna wait until that state or better start a new game before that happens?
OK winkel, I get the message, thanks. I am currently documenting all your instructions and examples from the 80 pages and then I am going to test it over 1 million spins after implementing it.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 08, 06:43 AM 2014
I watched both the TwoCatSam videos, but am not really liking this system at all. You could be waiting all day for a crossing even if they are "in sight". And I think you could be waiting days for a crossing of >2,>3. Crossings are guaranteed - sure - but there's no timescales as to when they will cross.
this post shows perfectly that you didn´t even try to test this strategy.
witin 37 spins there will always be several crossings.
some will cross some won´t. which to bet you have to SEE!
I tested it using tracker4 after watching both TwoCatSam videos, but every time a crossing was in sight it failed to cross 9/10 times. I've only seen it cross once, and that was a 1 vs. 1> crossing. I guess I was having really bad luck that session. I then didn't know how long to keep playing? I could see that 1 vs. 1> no longer had any crossings, but it wasn't clear how many potential 2 vs. 2>,3> crossings would come after 1 vs. 1> had been exhausted. Do we play this for 100 spins, 200 spins? No idea, but I hope to find a clear answer in the 80 pages. TwoCatSam did not play a session to it's conclusion otherwise he says something like "I'm having a bad session so I will walk away now"; BUT according to winkel we have to play ALL crossings to make a profit in the long run, so what exactly is the scope of "ALL crossings"?
it is always difficult to discuss something without any explicit information
give just the numbers you played, so I can test and comment
winkel, I don't know what end of session looks like because I don't know how long to play the system.
Since you have finished many sessions of GUT over the years, winkel, you know what an end of session looks like, so perhaps if you get a moment you could post some data from one of your historical logs showing rows of numbers that indicate Stop Play? Otherwise, I will hopefully figure it out eventually by looking through the 80 pages or playing a session for an extended period of time to see if there's some kind of pattern that might spell end of session. Again, I don't really know what I am looking for. 1>,2>3> go up and down right? So do sessions go on forever until you feel like stopping, or what? What's the general rule of thumb?
I want to make sure all information about this system is coming from winkel (and not how I am imagining it) - indeed I am documenting a "source book" for this system that has quotes only from winkel - so that there is no dispute over the test results when I eventually have this working correctly.
it depends on the range you qre playing:
if you play only hit and unhit, there is only one crossing 19 vs 18. if that has hit there will be no other crossing
if you play 0, 1 and >1
you will have crossings on 0 vs 1 and 1 vs >1
if you play 0, 1, >1, 2 and >2 (this is the most sensefull way) you will have lots of possible crossings
if you play 0, 1, >1, 2 and >2 up to >37 you will get lost between the crossings
What range do you recommend for ensuring a profit? One user tested only a single short range and single crossing, which resulted in a small loss based on the house advantage and flat betting. You said it failed because he only tested for 1 crossing; your response was that we must play "ALL crossings"?
Quoteif you play 0, 1, >1, 2 and >2 (this is the most sensefull way) you will have lots of possible crossings
So this is the recommended method? You don't include 3 and >3 as per track4.exe?
At this range how can we tell when all crossings - that
need to be played -
have been played, to a satisfactory conclusion?
Before I start looking at crossings I want to make sure I got the tracker working correctly? Please can anyone check the attachment:
1) Does the R N F F2 F>2 part look accurate?
2) Are the numbers assigned to the correct groups under 0, 1, >1, 2, >2?
3) Can you spot any bugs? I suspect the >1 or F2, F>2 / 2, >2 parts may be incorrect?
Implemented so far:
*RN crossings
*19-18 exception
Note: this is running under a very basic engine that ends session when N > R and there is no other stop-loss - just to test RN crossings.
So far it's losing, but since it's flat betting it's never going to lose that much!
winkel plays a lot more crossings and has a lot more rules, but based on the crossings concept alone I can't see this making any money even with further work?
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 06:23 AM 2014
Implemented so far:
*RN crossings
*19-18 exception
Note: this is running under a very basic engine that ends session when N > R and there is no other stop-loss - just to test RN crossings.
So far it's losing, but since it's flat betting it's never going to lose that much!
winkel plays a lot more crossings and has a lot more rules, but based on the crossings concept alone I can't see this making any money even with further work?
What do you expect?
You are just playing one possible betposition, not even touching the idea of the strategy.
it´s like: i tried the game of tennis and didn´t succeed to cross the net. I can´t see the sense of playing that game.
What part of the strategy might turn the odds around in our favour?
100s of posts in a nutshell?
I made up basics and extensions to this strategy. If you are really interested pls read, excercise and study
br winkel
Quote from: winkel on Oct 13, 09:13 AM 2014
100s of posts in a nutshell?
I made up basics and extensions to this strategy. If you are really interested pls read, excercise and study
br winkel
Mr Winkle where can I find this exercise ?
do exercise - not read exercise
winkel, I've seen all your posts, so I know how you play this even though some concepts are hard to grasp via the language barrier. However, the basis of this strategy is that you was analysing sleeping/repeating numbers when you noticed that they have to cross when plotted on a graph. So your whole system is based around betting when a crossing is in sight regardless of how you have tweaked it. However, that basic idea in itself is not making any money! In those 2,000 spins one crossing did not hit in 8 attempts. I know you have a stop-loss of 3, but long term it isn't going to affect things much.
For an efficient German bloke like yourself from the land of many inventions I'm sorry to say but I don't think you've come up with the goods this time! I understand English isn't your first language, but there's something very deceptive about your posts over the past 6 years: you do not appear to have been honest to us or to yourself. Even my German friends who checked out your posts on roulette-forum.de suspect you.
I can continue to implement this and you can continue with your vague rhetorical replies, but I think you have to accept that 6 years has been wasted? Facing reality is a hard thing to do - even if it shatters a 6 year held belief - but it's better than carrying on, living a lie. This German professor who beat roulette with 5 systems is not really you, winkel! You are living a false reality, so please stop pretending.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 10:38 AM 2014... but there's something very deceptive about your posts over the past 6 years: you do not appear to have been honest to us or to yourself. Even my German friends who checked out your posts on roulette-forum.de suspect you.
I can continue to implement this and you can continue with your vague rhetorical replies, but I think you have to accept that 6 years has been wasted? Facing reality is a hard thing to do - even if it shatters a 6 year held belief - but it's better than carrying on, living a lie. This German professor who beat roulette with 5 systems is not really you, winkel! You are living a false reality, so please stop pretending.
Hey falkor,
If you don´t like my strategy and if you don´t believe me and if you rely on your friends who read about this in a german forum where I never wrote about this - hey do so. I don´t mind.
In these 6 years I heard so often that this is not a winner because it was tested with other than my rules and hints and it lost due to "wrong" programmings.
nobody except TwoCatSam did a real testing trying to understand what I meant by GambleresIntelligence and "look what is going on"
who can get it gets it. who can let it lets it.
so have fun with all the other ideas that come along your way
and be sure: I´m living in reality and i´m not pretending anything. I´m proofing it nearly every day what I found and show how to play with all ups and downs.
br
winkel
QuoteIn these 6 years I heard so often that this is not a winner because it was tested with other than my rules and hints and it lost due to "wrong" programmings.
You can continue to make these claims against people attempting to test your system. But your system is nothing more than several tweaks based around the concept of crossings; one of your tweaks would be this "Gambler's Intelligence" part:
Quotenobody except TwoCatSam did a real testing trying to understand what I meant by GambleresIntelligence and "look what is going on"
From what I can gather this is nothing more than knowing when to end a session/walk away, "jump back" or respond to good/bad "waves" that are not following the binominal distribution as you see it (I know you would like to pull the wool over people's eyes and assume something more mystical is happening here).
So what you are doing is creating deliberate confusion by:
1) Failing to provide clear enough instructions on how to handle certain situations relating to "Gambler's Intelligence" - mixing clear instructions with "foggy" instructions.
2) Criticising people who test your system but without using "Gambler's Intelligence"
3) Failure to publish your own test results and be completely transparent.
"Gambler's Intelligence" is nonsense! There's only one way to handle each and every situation, otherwise you would not have been able program it yourself over 10 million spins:
QuoteIt is already tested over 10 000 000 spins. otherwise I wouldn´t call it the Grail
QuoteI tested it over 10 000 000 spins and played it since 2 years.
I wouldn´t say it is the Grail if it wasn't.
QuoteIn roulette you can't win a fortune. The "Grail" has to be defined as "Not loosing and keeping your starting-bankroll alive"
I play this for 2 years on lasseters with starting bankroll of 50 Euros. this bankroll has been saved and never ever been touched again. From the winnings I formed a second bankroll with which I play. I don't balance every game. Sometimes I serve the gambler in me and bet senseless like hell till my bankroll is down to minimum 50Euros.
QuoteI tested it with over 10 000 000 spins and it gave an result in Plus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
QuoteI don't have to proof it is working. YOU have to proof that it isn't and you will fail and find a winning strategy.
By the way: in Germany they call me Professor Plein. You can learn roulette from me.
QuoteI don´t ask people to believe this. I give them the chance to test it and see what comes out.
I've played all crossings in one range and proven that the concept of "crossings" is no holy grail. Winkel has a lot of extra layers on top of that concept - together with 2-3 additional ranges - but the system itself is nothing more than a game concocted by winkel.
Falkor
GUTs been around since Adam was a lad and all Q&A is somewhere from VLS 2009 to here and now.
Lets not get into wars of words.
I was only thinking the other day how creative CC was getting recently.
If GUT winds you up and you dont believe Winkel, move on.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 12:01 PM 2014
So what you are doing is creating deliberate confusion by:
1) Failing to provide clear enough instructions on how to handle certain situations relating to "Gambler's Intelligence" - mixing clear instructions with "foggy" instructions.
2) Criticising people who test your system but without using "Gambler's Intelligence"
3) Failure to publish your own test results and be completely transparent.
"Gambler's Intelligence" is nonsense! There's only one way to handle each and every situation, otherwise you would not have been able program it yourself over 10 million spins:
I've played all crossings in one range and proven that the concept of "crossings" is no holy grail. Winkel has a lot of extra layers on top of that concept - together with 2-3 additional ranges - but the system itself is nothing more than a game concocted by winkel.
Sorry to say this to you. You are not living in a world were you expect people to spoon feed you.
This is a strategy that's not easy to follow. However, what's easy to follow is reading the 1200 pages which is a printout of the whole original thread and making your own point's. As you making your points, you will understand the strategy behind Winkel's work.
It's not a simple strategy to tell some one when you have this you do this or that. If you going to wait for someone to tell you that, read the original post and look at the possible combinations that can come about in a span of 37 spins.
I am very positive that this is not a strategy that can be programmed easily. Asking someone else to program it for you will cost you an arm and a leg.
This thread has provided a lot of tools for people to learn the strategy and understand it.
This strategy will not make you millions in a day, however I can assure you it will win you a decent amount in the long run.
People have seen my video's with this strategy working using a bot. BTW, the bot is not for sale.
Bottom line you have to look at a specific crossing and decide based on what has happened so far what are the chances of the crossing to cross? If you can't decide don't bet, you will save your bankroll.
According to Winkel's stats that he has provided, there is enough evidence that this is a winning system in the long run by just flat betting. If you are asking Winkel, to provide more evidence, all i have to say to you is:
PROVIDE WINKEL YOUR TEST RESULTS AND I AM SURE HE WILL CORRECT YOU. OH YEAH, I HAVEN'T DONE THE TEST MYSELF. SO HOW CAN I PROVIDE HIM SOMETHING TO COMMENT ON.
You going to reply, anyone can do that once you know the outcome.
Well here is the solution to that:
Provide the number's and calculation till the crossing. Hold the number's after the crossing. wait for Winkel to comment and see it for your self.
As long as you going to be honest with yourself and the rest of the forum, you will see the outcome.
Not only for you, I am sure Winkel will do it for anyone.
I personally, don't think he has held anything back in regards to stats or evidence.
Good luck to you.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 12:01 PM 2014
You can continue to make these claims against people attempting to test your system. But your system is nothing more than several tweaks based around the concept of crossings;
and all the other claimed winning systems don´t use tweaks?
and my strategy isn´t tweaked at all. it simply says: find a crossing and bet on it. and it´s said from beginning and has never been changed or tweaked
one of your tweaks would be this "Gambler's Intelligence" part:
From what I can gather this is nothing more than knowing when to end a session/walk away, "jump back" or respond to good/bad "waves"
to detect these situations you have to use some intelligent decisions, don´t you? If you can program KI, do it!
that are not following the binominal distribution as you see it (I know you would like to pull the wool over people's eyes and assume something more mystical is happening here).
here begins the general misunderstanding. I never refused to answer any question or to help people nor did I ever talk about secrets or any myth things.
everything follows the distribution and its sigma. There are winning streaks and losing streaks. What problem do you have me giving hints how to devide one from the other?
So what you are doing is creating deliberate confusion by: Ask questions that haven´t been answered several times in the last years and you will get clear answers. I´didn´t present this to confuse people.
1) Failing to provide clear enough instructions on how to handle certain situations relating to "Gambler's Intelligence" - mixing clear instructions with "foggy" instructions.
give examples
2) Criticising people who test your system but without using "Gambler's Intelligence"
when you think you can beat the roulette without detecting whether you are on a winning or losing streak, then you have to live with this fantasy
3) Failure to publish your own test results and be completely transparent.
you can read my results in every example I gave and there are many. for example my actual Plein-Battle on DC-Campus.net. So give examples: where haven´t I been transparent(very mystic phrase). And: Who are your friends in that german forum? (very mystic)
"Gambler's Intelligence" is nonsense!
That tells all: Intelligence is nonsense! :ooh:
There's only one way to handle each and every situation, there are always two ways to decide and always a third possibility
otherwise you would not have been able program it yourself over 10 million spins:
as you quoted I repeated my claimes. Be lucky to have found a claim you can hang my strategy and myself
I've played all crossings in one range and proven that the concept of "crossings" is no holy grail. Winkel has a lot of extra layers on top of that concept - together with 2-3 additional ranges - but the system itself is nothing more than a game concocted by winkel.
If your last statement has any right to be existing, then every posted strategy/system in this and all other forums are concocted. so you bash nearly every member here who tries to be constructiv and contributes his/hers ideas.
And don´t forget if I where that kind you are describing me, I had it sold.
QuoteSorry to say this to you. You are not living in a world were you expect people to spoon feed you.
This is a strategy that's not easy to follow. However, what's easy to follow is reading the 1200 pages which is a printout of the whole original thread and making your own point's. As you making your points, you will understand the strategy behind Winkel's work.
What makes you think I haven't read all 80 pages of that thread?
QuoteIt's not a simple strategy to tell some one when you have this you do this or that. If you going to wait for someone to tell you that, read the original post and look at the possible combinations that can come about in a span of 37 spins.
I am very positive that this is not a strategy that can be programmed easily. Asking someone else to program it for you will cost you an arm and a leg.
This thread has provided a lot of tools for people to learn the strategy and understand it.
This strategy will not make you millions in a day, however I can assure you it will win you a decent amount in the long run.
People have seen my video's with this strategy working using a bot. BTW, the bot is not for sale.
If winkel can play the strategy and you can learn it then somebody can program it - unless this is all one elaborate hoax/delusion on either of your parts!
QuoteBottom line you have to look at a specific crossing and decide based on what has happened so far what are the chances of the crossing to cross? If you can't decide don't bet, you will save your bankroll.
And that's looking at good/bad "waves", right? My testing showed a crossing failed 8 times in a row, and you believe you have the ability to look at the opening "wave" of that session to know not to bet on the crossing in the first place?
QuoteAccording to Winkel's stats that he has provided, there is enough evidence that this is a winning system in the long run by just flat betting. If you are asking Winkel, to provide more evidence, all i have to say to you is:
PROVIDE WINKEL YOUR TEST RESULTS AND I AM SURE HE WILL CORRECT YOU. OH YEAH, I HAVEN'T DONE THE TEST MYSELF. SO HOW CAN I PROVIDE HIM SOMETHING TO COMMENT ON.
QuoteI personally, don't think he has held anything back in regards to stats or evidence.
I already posted my test results; winkel has boasted several times about his, but never posted them once because it's doubtful they even exist.
nice try, winkel: you did get a lot of attention over the years and you did answer a lot of questions, but there's plenty of questions you evaded simply because you are not genuine and sincere, but have an agenda.
Quotethere are always two ways to decide and always a third possibility
Your system is full of many contradictions like the above. Again, if you don't know the single best option to take then how can you test 10 million spins? You going to tell me you have a special robot that runs on AI?
Quoteit simply says: find a crossing and bet on it.
Unfortunately, all the work you did on graphs and fancy spread sheets was a waste of time. This simple concept is the reason your system begun and failed at the foundation level - before you wrapped it up inside layers of propaganda and deceit. You can't chase your losses when you are this much stuck in the mud, and you can't chase a losing system that never worked in the first place.
I don't know how many more years winkel is going to keep peddling this fantasy. It's certainly the most read topic in the history of roulette, yet its one with a system that only ever had 1-2 people using it. So who really benefits from all this time wasting and lost cause? Answer: people who need their ego fed.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 03:12 PM 2014
nice try, winkel: you did get a lot of attention over the years and you did answer a lot of questions, but there's plenty of questions you evaded simply because you are not genuine and sincere, but have an agenda.
Your system is full of many contradictions like the above. Again, if you don't know the single best option to take then how can you test 10 million spins? You going to tell me you have a special robot that runs on AI?
Unfortunately, all the work you did on graphs and fancy spread sheets was a waste of time. This simple concept is the reason your system begun and failed at the foundation level - before you wrapped it up inside layers of propaganda and deceit. You can't chase your losses when you are this much stuck in the mud, and you can't chase a losing system that never worked in the first place.
I don't know how many more years winkel is going to keep peddling this fantasy. It's certainly the most read topic in the history of roulette, yet its one with a system that only ever had 1-2 people using it. So who really benefits from all this time wasting and lost cause? Answer: people who need their ego fed.
I am sure you are the one, that's causing the all the attention.
BTW, What makes me think, you haven't read the 80 pages. YOU ASK THE SAME STUPID QUESTION THAT HAS BEEN ANSWERED IN 80 PAGES. OVER AND OVER.
Anyways, like Turner said, if you don't think this is a working strategy, let it go.
However, I can bet my money that this is a winning system.
I can play it on an electronic wheel at the casino, never mind online.
However, I am not saying it's an easy system to play. You have to have a lot of practice in reading the numbers right.
I am once again not bragging, but numbers are in my blood. So maybe maybe, that's why it's easy for me to follow it.
In respect to your 8 losses on the same crossing. Can you provide us the tested number's and lets see?
On the other hand, if you have read all 80 pages, there is a hint as to what Winkel has suggested to do in that scenerio, if that happens?
Let's see if you can come back and answer your own question to prove everyone that you have read the 80 pages or are you going to post your test to get an easy answer form us?
Quote from: Tamino on Oct 13, 03:35 PM 2014
I have seen Winkel`s posts many years ago at the Paroli forum. His methods stank then and still do,
Commoin sense dictates a betting option.
Too much smoke about this cat but no fire
I am sorry to say this to you. It has to be common sense, which is right, common sense comes from avoiding your past mistakes. However, if you can't remember your past mistakes, how can you correct them? (Take an example of learning to walk, if you didn't correct yourself you wouldn't be walking now would you?) THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN A BAD EXAMPLE BUT NO HARM INTENDED.
All systems are based on common sense, this one just needs an extra notch to fulfill its prophecy.
TAKE 2 please read carefully.
To all
Lets not get into wars of words.
Last post from me on this topic:
Since Professor winkel is so intelligent and comes from Germany where many of the greatest inventors/pioneers resided, why can't he post a link to the 10 million spin results in whatever form - yet he can do fancy spread sheets and graphs and beat roulette using 5 systems where all other systems have failed? Not only that, but he demands that we should test his system instead and that we "will find it to be a winning system"; well I've done that to some extent and found the contrary to be true. OR - winkel will say:
QuoteBut even if I send the program and the verified Permanences you would find a argument to be suspicious.
That way he has an excuse never to post the results should they exist - he's covered himself from having his great lie exposed from every angle. So unless he does post that data nobody in their right minds should be expected to believe such lies and propaganda! Again I would recommend all members reading this do not waste their time trawling through the 80 page topic or responding to winkel. Do not fall inside the trap and become one of his victims. It goes without saying: without observing valid evidence do not believe what winkel or anyone else tells you! If you do then you are just a fool and easily brainwashed; agreed?
Remember: there is no evidence to back up Winkel's G.U.T/Holy Grail. The only evidence seen at the time of writing is that - in the long run - it chips away at your bankroll and is nothing more than a grandiose game within a game. Exercise caution!
If this system is still around in 20 years time then - heaven forbid - my efforts would have failed, and it may end up as a new gospel. But just remember: I'm only the 2nd person to test it outside of winkel's cult - and we both came to similar conclusions: small percentage of loss in the long run (based on house advantage). 6 YEARS!!! OK, guys, you are on your own now!
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 02:39 PM 2014
I already posted my test results;
Where did this happen? Sorry if I missed them
hi falkor,
I don´t really get what you are complaining about?
Maybe I´m stupid, but whats your problem with it? Why do you hate me? Am I worse than any scammer on the forums all oveer the world?
Did I ask for money? Did I brainwash you or any other one? if so please tell me whom, where, when and how?
I will follow your posts and see which system you will find which is not a waste of time and money.
And I never did attack you personally. Did you be so kind to me?
Quote from: winkel on Oct 13, 04:03 PM 2014
Where did this happen? Sorry if I missed them
So did I. However, he sent me a personal message.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 13, 04:34 PM 2014
Here's a session with 7 losses in a row:
link:s://:.sendspace.com/file/9n4vrp (link:s://:.sendspace.com/file/9n4vrp)
I don't want to be going and looking at things on my own.
Please post your crossing just like everyone else, so everyone can see it.
Like I said, I was sure you will give us the sessions for an easy way out and not read the 80 pages.
Quote from: Tamino on Oct 13, 04:40 PM 2014
Is this the" Emporer`s New Cloth " system. I checked post # 1 and all I can see is an unworkable link to a tracker. But where is the beef?
Track WHAT. Something that does not exist? Beam me up.
The squirrels are having a field day. .
You have to remember this, neither Winkel or I own the site. I am sure the owner of the site can restore those links for you, if asked nicely.
He has done it for me before from other threads.
If Something didn't exist, I am sure I would have been banned from this site by now.
The only reason I don't use this is because I don't understand it .It doesn't mean it won't work.but what do I know.
Quote from: warrior on Oct 13, 04:53 PM 2014
The only reason I don't use this is because I don't understand it .It doesn't mean it won't work.but what do I know.
No Winkel fanboy here, but I think his idea here is good. Having read the original 80 page thread a long time ago, I tested this out quite a bit and played with some success and will most likely give it another go at some point. I just find it a bit time consuming at times. Not a method that can really be used in a B&M casino.
Personaly, it's one of my top 3 winning method of play! :love: :love: :love: >:D >:D >:D
I took a look and had a big laugh on that "losing" trot azim posted:
spin 406
missed crossing to detect 1 vs >1 9 units
spin 407 loss -9
spin 408 loss -9 tot -18
and crossing gone because it is now 10 vs 8
spin 410
missed crossing to detect 1 vs >1 10 units
bet spin 411 and hit +26 total now +8
spin 413
1vs >1 10 units
bet spin 414 loss -10 and new crossing 2 vs >2 5 units (need decision: bet 1st, bet 2nd, bet both crossings)
spin 415 loss -10 loss -5
spin 416 win 1st crossing +26 loss -5
spin 417 bet 6 units on crossing 2 and win 30 units
+26 +8 total now +34
need decision: +34 enough or do I go for a million
watching what is going on
spin 419
crossing 1 vs >1 (multiple betselection on 1 vs >1 need decision: play for cntinuing winning strak or better stop?)
11 unis to bet
spin 420 win +25 due to your decision +59 or still +34
and new crossing on 2vs>2 6u
spin 421 loss 6 decision: stop with 53/28 or risk
spin 422 loss 6 decision: stop with 47/22 or risk
crossings count 13 12 12 6 6 ( 0 vs 1 is 13u; 1 vs >1 againis 12u; 2 vs >2 is 6u)
you have now 3 crossings to bet at the same time. Decision needed which to bet or if in doubt don´t bet and jump or start a new count.
I would have stopped here at latest point.
as we invested 12 units on cross "2vs>2 and its the lowest risk of 6 units we have a chance
crossing had hit at spin 424
what is so difficult with that trot?
But if you only bet 1 crossingposition you won´t gain the possibilities this gives to you
and if you had made any decision as the positions I´ve marked you couldn´t lose this trot.
br
winkel
Contradiction! (
winkel can wriggle his way out of anything by changing the rules as he goes along in hindsight of a completed session!)
23 15 11 9 1 1 interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet
1 14 12 9 1 1 12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.
22 14 11 10 1 1 win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet 24
18 14 10 11 1 1 it won. I should have bet but didn’t because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?
15 14 10 10 2 1 10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.
22 14 10 9 3 1 still no bet
18 14 10 8 4 1 no signals now.
8 14 10 8 3 2
13 14 10 7 4 2 7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue
15 14 10 7 3 3
0 13 11 7 3 3 13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?
34 12 12 7 3 3 12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.
15 12 12 7 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again. -12
1 12 11 8 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt -12
7 12 10 9 3 3 Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting. -12
12 12 9 10 3 3 so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.
6 11 10 10 3 3 now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)
6 11 9 11 3 3 would have been wrong
6 11 9 10 4 3
20 10 10 10 4 3 another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet
23 10 10 9 5 3 again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.
QuoteThe main problem here is that you started betting without having bet the crossing "0" vs "1"!!!!
The Zero´s stayed slow. This is a rare situation in the progressing of an Permanence. because it is rare it is difficult to play.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 14, 01:49 PM 2014
Contradiction! (winkel can wriggle his way out of anything by changing the rules as he goes along in hindsight of a completed session!)
23 15 11 9 1 1 interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet
1 14 12 9 1 1 12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.
22 14 11 10 1 1 win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. Plus >2 not many hit. No bet 24
18 14 10 11 1 1 it won. I should have bet but didn’t because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right?
15 14 10 10 2 1 10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.
22 14 10 9 3 1 still no bet
18 14 10 8 4 1 no signals now.
8 14 10 8 3 2
13 14 10 7 4 2 7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue
15 14 10 7 3 3
0 13 11 7 3 3 13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?
34 12 12 7 3 3 12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.
15 12 12 7 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again. -12
1 12 11 8 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt -12
7 12 10 9 3 3 Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting. -12
12 12 9 10 3 3 so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.
6 11 10 10 3 3 now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36)
6 11 9 11 3 3 would have been wrong
6 11 9 10 4 3
20 10 10 10 4 3 another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet
23 10 10 9 5 3 again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.
PLEASE GO BACK AND READ>>>> I TOLD YOU YOU WILL FIND AN EASY WAY OUT...
HERE IF YOU THINK HE KNEW THE SESSION. I ASKED YOU TO POST TILL THE CROSSING. WAIT FOR A REPLY AND POST THE REST OF THE SESSION AS YOU WANT TO GO ALONG..
STOP MAKING WINKEL LOOK LIKE HE IS CHANGING RULES. IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE RULES DONT BOTHER WITH THIS THREAD.
You are wrong again, falkor.
In your trot the 0s had been fast: 24 13 0 at spin 13 of the trot.
Quote from: falkor on Oct 14, 01:49 PM 2014
Contradiction! (winkel can wriggle his way out of anything by changing the rules as he goes along in hindsight of a completed session!)
I miss the names of Positions. But I think its following order Coup - 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
23 15 11 9 1 1 interesting - 1's = 11 and >1's = 10. last two were 1's and zeros overdue. I think this will lose. No bet
1 14 12 9 1 1 12 v 11 still a bet. I think now could be okay to bet.
22 14 11 10 1 1 win +24. The 11 v 10 is now flagging to cross. Dangerous since zeros overdue. can´t comment this, bec. I don´t know the exact # of the spin. Could be spin 38 Plus >2 not many hit. No bet 24
18 14 10 11 1 1 it won. I should have bet but didn’t because had hit in 3 of last 4. was I right? hits on 1 were 12to11 then 11to10 then no hit and no hit
15 14 10 10 2 1 10 v10 comes back on. I think zeros due so no bet.
22 14 10 9 3 1 still no bet
18 14 10 8 4 1 no signals now.
8 14 10 8 3 2
13 14 10 7 4 2 7 v6 is up. Below 9 so no bet. Zeros overdue
15 14 10 7 3 3
0 13 11 7 3 3 13 v11. another zero could be signal. Should have reset maybe by now?
34 12 12 7 3 3 12 v 12. Will bet since zeros overdue. However - has hit twice in row.
15 12 12 7 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 12 still the bet. Rebet again. -12
1 12 11 8 3 3 Lose -12. 12 v 11 still the bet. Rebet again. Final attempt -12
7 12 10 9 3 3 Lose. -12. I think the erroe was that 1's had not hit in about 7 or 8 spins when I started betting. -12 you could bet now on 10vs9 and it hits
12 12 9 10 3 3 so 1's were overdue. And I should have bet the 10v9 on last spin but missed it. Silly boy.
6 11 10 10 3 3 now an interesting one. I would back the 11 v 10 since zeros overdue. But no bet since reset after a stop out (-36) again the problem of 3 crossings, better jump or restart
6 11 9 11 3 3 would have been wrong
6 11 9 10 4 3
20 10 10 10 4 3 another dilemma. Again would go for zeros but no bet
23 10 10 9 5 3 again another loser. Winkel feedback here would be so useful! Big session with many dilemmas.
after I´ve read your PM to me, I do answer in favor of others but not of you
winkel has said time and time again that he never plays a higher range crossing until playing a 0 vs. 1 first (see quote above and quote below):
Quote22 10 22 8 7 7 0
23 30 21 9 7 7 0
24 6 20 10 7 7 0
25 31 19 11 7 7 0
26 21 19 10 8 8 0
27 x 19 10 8 8 0
28 x 19 10 8 8 0
we need at minimum 4 spins to meet the first crossing
we wouldn´t play a possible 9 "1" vs 9 "2"
However, now that I showed how a 0 vs. 1 crossing can lose 7-8 times in a row, winkel decides it's ok to start playing higher range crossings early!
falkor pls don´t mix up quotes from BASICS of GUT and extented versions.
It was difficult enough to explain the basics. I couldn´t teach every possible combination in the first posts.
Quote from: Azim on Oct 05, 12:41 AM 2014
What I said was in went through 219,000,000 random numbers to make my bot a winning bot.
The method/system that has been presented by Winkel is a sure winner.
Only obstacle I can see from this system/method is the ability to be able to read the crossings.
Some will claim the above statement goes true for any system. I defer to agree because this system/ method is based on an event that has to take place. It could be a crossing at 1 or a crossing at 2,
It's not something someone can present to another on a silver platter.
It's all practice and making yourself avoid mistakes. If unsure don't bet. As said by Winkel.
Yes, I read a lot about GUT, so I realize this is not a method with rules set in stone. But I also read your discussion with Winkel in this thread about using a statistics for effective play. I'm wondering whether or not you are using statistics for playing? Because I know Winkel mentioned it can't be played based on statistics, but based on reading what is going on. Or how did you use statistics you did on 219 000 000 spins? Because I'm thinking about making my own statistics, but am not sure if it has any meaning to do so or if it can be helpful in any way.
I am sorry if there has been any misunderstanding.
The bot went through 219000000 as a test and Winkel has already provided us with the stats.
If you read the post's carefully, I did start using statistics to do what I think you want to do and it failed.
Winkel, had already warned me that it would fail even before I started. I was just stuborn and wanted to try it, using past statistics. It didn't work.
I am hoping I have clarified your question.
Quote from: Azim on Dec 28, 08:07 PM 2014
I am sorry if there has been any misunderstanding.
The bot went through 219000000 as a test and Winkel has already provided us with the stats.
If you read the post's carefully, I did start using statistics to do what I think you want to do and it failed.
Winkel, had already warned me that it would fail even before I started. I was just stuborn and wanted to try it, using past statistics. It didn't work.
I am hoping I have clarified your question.
Thank you for answering, so basicaly it doesn't make any sense doing a statistics on millions of spins because it doesn't help with playing. The best or only way is to practise playing and using reading what is going on.
I understood from some of your previous posts that you created a bot and it proved that this method is a long term winner or so called holy grail. But maybe I got it wrong.
Quote from: MrG on Dec 28, 08:17 PM 2014
Thank you for answering, so basicaly it doesn't make any sense doing a statistics on millions of spins because it doesn't help with playing. The best or only way is to practise playing and using reading what is going on.
I understood from some of your previous posts that you created a bot and it proved that this method is a long term winner or so called holy grail. But maybe I got it wrong.
Yes, I did create a bot for this. To prove that it is a winning system.
I also had about 3 or 4 videos or screen recording to prove that this system/method is a winner.
Winkel, has answered every possible situation in how to handle it.
I dont know anything about this system. This is gut? Where do i begin
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 28, 08:51 PM 2014
I dont know anything about this system. This is gut? Where do i begin
Here:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0)
That will be my new years project. Hope its good lol
is there an android app for this yet, lol?
id hate to sit at the table with pen and paper
i get the gist of the system
when 19 numbers are left bet them so on and so forth
A user named mamas made a post here:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.1155 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.1155)
He says:
--
For 17, I only play the "1" if I have 17-17-3 at spin 23.
--
Well I tested 162 150 sessions of 37 spins (almost 6 million spins) and only bet on spin 23 if it was 17-17-3 (based on mamas post) and I tracked both betting on 17 no shows, and 17 numbers that have one hit for spin 24. The result was:
-4489 units betting for 16 18 (betting 17 no shows)
and
-4273 units betting for 17 16 (betting 17 numbers that have one hit)
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 30, 10:15 PM 2014
A user named mamas made a post here:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.1155 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.1155)
He says:
--
For 17, I only play the "1" if I have 17-17-3 at spin 23.
--
Well I tested 162 150 sessions of 37 spins (almost 6 million spins) and only bet on spin 23 if it was 17-17-3 (based on mamas post) and I tracked both betting on 17 no shows, and 17 numbers that have one hit for spin 24. The result was:
-4489 units betting for 16 18 (betting 17 no shows)
and
-4273 units betting for 17 16 (betting 17 numbers that have one hit)
Your numbers are correct.
I will not deny that.
However, I don't think you have understood the system/method.
If you going to choose and pick only a couple of crossing, I can tell you, it will fail on you.It was proved.
You have to pick every crossing that there is..
Having said that , I have to re-phrase myself by saying you just can't play 0-1 or 0>1 crossings and only a 17-17 or 17-16 crossing. That will lose..
You have to play all possible crossing with 0's. If you going to pick and choose a set number. Like its been done at 17 with just a crossing at 0. The house edge will get to you.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 30, 08:27 PM 2014
is there an android app for this yet, lol?
id hate to sit at the table with pen and paper
i get the gist of the system
when 19 numbers are left bet them so on and so forth
If you going to bet 19 number's you will lose. that's not what this sytem/method says.
Hate to tell you. Might as well donate the money.
Please read the original post by Winkel again.
Sorry to be so upfront.
Quote from: Azim on Dec 30, 10:48 PM 2014
Your numbers are correct.
I will not deny that.
However, I don't think you have understood the system/method.
If you going to choose and pick only a couple of crossing, I can tell you, it will fail on you.It was proved.
You have to pick every crossing that there is..
Having said that , I have to re-phrase myself by saying you just can't play 0-1 or 0>1 crossings and only a 17-17 or 17-16 crossing. That will lose..
You have to play all possible crossing with 0's. If you going to pick and choose a set number. Like its been done at 17 with just a crossing at 0. The house edge will get to you.
Thank you for the helpful response.
But according to mamas post, could a person win long term using this approach betting on only 15, 16 and 17 numbers and never less?
NO. They will lose in the long run, unless you catch a very lucky break.
However, if you can see the table and read whats happening at that crossing. you might might get away with it.
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 30, 11:15 PM 2014
Thank you for the helpful response.
But according to mamas post, could a person win long term using this approach betting on only 15, 16 and 17 numbers and never less?
Look at post 591 by Kon-Fu-Sed. He did prove that the system would not work by betting only 1 crossing. Because that was the only crossing he tried. The house edge will get you.
This will not not win by just playing limited amount of crossings. You have to read the full 80 pages, to understand, what Winkel was trying to explain.
Not saying Winkel is not smart, But I think, people were not understanding what he was trying to say.
Please read the complete thread and all your questions will be answered.
There is no easy way to getting this to work but to read and understand what Winkel was trying to explain.
Sorry I couldn't put the quote in because I have forgotten my password there.
Quote from: Azim on Dec 30, 10:48 PM 2014
Your numbers are correct.
I will not deny that.
However, I don't think you have understood the system/method.
If you going to choose and pick only a couple of crossing, I can tell you, it will fail on you.It was proved.
You have to pick every crossing that there is..
Having said that , I have to re-phrase myself by saying you just can't play 0-1 or 0>1 crossings and only a 17-17 or 17-16 crossing. That will lose..
You have to play all possible crossing with 0's. If you going to pick and choose a set number. Like its been done at 17 with just a crossing at 0. The house edge will get to you.
You say to play every possible crossing. How far do you have to take this so it is a winner long term?
0,1
0>1
1>1
2>2
3>3 till how far exactly?
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 31, 01:55 AM 2014
You say to play every possible crossing. How far do you have to take this so it is a winner long term?
0,1
0>1
1>1
2>2
3>3 till how far exactly?
I am sorry. I will let Winkel answer that for you.
If I amswer that I am exposing what I have done over the last 8-9 months in 2 sentences.
And I don't think I want to lay this on a silver platter for anyone.
Quote from: Azim on Dec 31, 02:02 AM 2014
I am sorry. I will let Winkel answer that for you.
If I amswer that I am exposing what I have done over the last 8-9 months in 2 sentences.
And I don't think I want to lay this on a silver platter for anyone.
Can you at least tell me the session length? 50 spins is talked about a lot on the G.U.T long thread, but I have a feeling it is around 150 spins.
I am sorry to be very upfront.
It is something you will have to try it out.
It's not going to be laid out on a silver platter not from me at least.
I will again let Winkel answer that.
I have a strong idea of what I have to test in excel now.
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 31, 02:29 AM 2014
I have a strong idea of what I have to test in excel now.
I am totally glad. I would love to see someone else tell this forum that this is a grail.
They just have to work for it. It will not be handed over on a platter especially from me.
Thanks for the help thus far. Much appreciated.
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 31, 02:45 AM 2014
Thanks for the help thus far. Much appreciated.
I have a feeling Winkel will be on the same page as me in saying:
Please Please make sure you have the facts right.
Unlike Andruchi, this is not a straight forward system. It's basically a strategy.
A system is easy to follow, a strategy is not.
Well I just tested what I thought would be positive and it was heavily negative. Very disappointing.
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 31, 04:05 AM 2014
Well I just tested what I thought would be positive and it was heavily negative. Very disappointing.
I figured, that would happen. That's why I posted the post earlier.
All I can say, is please keep trying.
I will tell you something. I have been told you are a smart person. Can you answer me I question?
Have you actually read all of the 80 pages on the original thread? Be honest with yourself?
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 31, 04:05 AM 2014
Well I just tested what I thought would be positive and it was heavily negative. Very disappointing.
I love this kind of posts!
Nobody knows what you´ve tested. Nobody can control if you did right. Nobody knows if you understood what to do.
Thank you very much and do me a favour: Don´t play that strategy.
It is always the same:
Is there an App?
Is there an RX-Code?
Is it coded in Excel?
and so on.
All these questions just say: There are lazy people who wanna win automatically by math. (Hey! GUT is not what you are looking for.)
They didn´t simply understand the main advice: Watch (you and nobody else) what is going on and make a decision.
As long as there is no AI-programming this is not codable.
There are two very nice supporting programs:
tracker4 and GUTCBA
They don´t bet for you. they just give you the point to make a decision. That´s all you need.
With GUTCBA you can clearly see what is going on:
Betting straight through to spin 50 will make you lose. Why not stop? don´t be greedy. There is always another chance.
Betting after two lost crossings will make you lose? Why not jump? Why do you follow Gamblers Fallacy: There must follow a win?
If you bet 17 crossing and win, why do you risc the win, when you don´t trust the trot.
If you bet 17 crossing and win, and you see this is quite a good trot, you can watch and win more or stop a bit later.
KonFuSed proved that every single crossing bet on its own will lead to the mathematically results.
GUT is a concept that counts on this fact. If there is that target we just try to seperate the winning 17/37 from the losing 17/37
Hello Winkel
Quote from: winkel on Dec 31, 06:22 AM 2014
It is always the same:
Is there an App?
Is there an RX-Code?
Is it coded in Excel?
and so on.
All these questions just say: There are lazy people who wanna win automatically by math. (Hey! GUT is not what you are looking for.)
They didn´t simply understand the main advice: Watch (you and nobody else) what is going on and make a decision.
As long as there is no AI-programming this is not codable.
There are two very nice supporting programs:
tracker4 and GUTCBA
They don´t bet for you. they just give you the point to make a decision. That´s all you need.
With GUTCBA you can clearly see what is going on:
Betting straight through to spin 50 will make you lose. Why not stop? don´t be greedy. There is always another chance.
Betting after two lost crossings will make you lose? Why not jump? Why do you follow Gamblers Fallacy: There must follow a win?
If you bet 17 crossing and win, why do you risc the win, when you don´t trust the trot.
If you bet 17 crossing and win, and you see this is quite a good trot, you can watch and win more or stop a bit later.
KonFuSed proved that every single crossing bet on its own will lead to the mathematically results.
GUT is a concept that counts on this fact. If there is that target we just try to seperate the winning 17/37 from the losing 17/37
If there is that target we just try to seperate the winning 17/37 from the losing 17/37 thats what its about. so is it the H.G
Wink do you ever end a session minus starting b/r. If youhave 20 sessions and lose 4, but b/r is bigger then fine, but does gut win every session
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 31, 08:09 AM 2014
Hello Winkel If there is that target we just try to seperate the winning 17/37 from the losing 17/37 thats what its about. so is it the H.G
Wink do you ever end a session minus starting b/r. If youhave 20 sessions and lose 4, but b/r is bigger then fine, but does gut win every session
What is a session?
Follow the trot.
Try to read the trot.
You are unsure? Don´t bet.
You are sure? Bet
You win? Check your greed.
You lose? It´s not your day? Stop playing.
You can´t read that trot? Jump into another sequence?
If there´s a crossing, bet that crossing.
Do you lose? Why do you lose?
GUT just gives you a point to bet. To bet or not to bet is your decision. Watch what is going on.
Soon you will only bet the winning trots and avoid the losing ones.
Your wins will be bigger than your losses.
I am fairly sure, having read every post on GUT, "in the day" and subsequent attempts to understand it that it has evolved into a GUT feeling (pun intended)
Many years ago, it seemed more hard and fast. Now its more touchy-feely...like I said, GUT feeling.
That interpretation of GUT is true. I know what I have read.
The best have tried to get it and failed.
In the end, I truly believe its invented by Winkel, for Winkel.
Only Winkel will ever really get it....because it is subjective and that subjectivity is
beholden to Winkel
Just my view Winkel.
Dont start barking at me !
The is there an android app for this was a joke. Winkel a little sense of humor is ok, you know.
Quote from: Turner on Dec 31, 09:18 AM 2014
I am fairly sure, having read every post on GUT, "in the day" and subsequent attempts to understand it that it has evolved into a GUT feeling (pun intended)
Many years ago, it seemed more hard and fast. Now its more touchy-feely...like I said, GUT feeling.
That interpretation of GUT is true. I know what I have read.
The best have tried to get it and failed.
In the end, I truly believe its invented by Winkel, for Winkel.
Only Winkel will ever really get it....because it is subjective and that subjectivity is
beholden to Winkel
Just my view Winkel.
Dont start barking at me !
But why is it so, Turner?
because people didn´t follow my advice: Take a trot and try to read it spin by spin.
Take the wiesbaden-site at noon. They start with 4 different tables. every other minute there are spins dropping in.
You can jump in until 1 o´clock in the morning
Just sit there and use tracker4 or gutcba. Try to decide to bet or not to bet watch what is going on.
If you do it once a day you will see what is developing during the spins.
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on Dec 31, 04:05 AM 2014
Well I just tested what I thought would be positive and it was heavily negative. Very disappointing.
May i ask you to post only only 20 first spins from the number's you were using.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.. Only 20 number's to start. With their crossing breakdown.
Quote from: winkel on Dec 31, 10:29 AM 2014
But why is it so, Turner?
because people didn´t follow my advice: Take a trot and try to read it spin by spin.
Take the wiesbaden-site at noon. They start with 4 different tables. every other minute there are spins dropping in.
You can jump in until 1 o´clock in the morning
Just sit there and use tracker4 or gutcba. Try to decide to bet or not to bet watch what is going on.
If you do it once a day you will see what is developing during the spins.
Winkel,
I appreciate your reply.
its the "try to decide" bit people struggle with I guess.
I play similar with a core idea that "presents" a bet to me. I dont always play it for reasons best known to myself.
Thats the hard bit for some people to grasp. The "best known to myself" bit.
Turner
PS....I simply love your phrase "check your greed"
Thats key to my decisions.
Quote from: Turner on Dec 31, 11:29 AM 2014
its the "try to decide" bit people struggle with I guess.
I think that's the thing that most ppl have issues with regarding the GUT.
Most ppl here are looking for a simple, mechanical system here, an If.. Then... system if you will.....
I for one don't understand it & from my POV what with the tracking it's just too difficult for a simpleton like myself :thumbsup:
Does it work ? I haven't a Scooby Doo.....
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 31, 11:40 AM 2014
I think that's the thing that most ppl have issues with regarding the GUT.
Most ppl here are looking for a simple, mechanical system here, an If.. Then... system if you will....dd LOOK NO FURTHER THAN GRANPS,BUT FROM A DIFFERENT PIECE OF THE ROULETTE EQUIPMENT, ONLY FLAT BET.
I for one don't understand it & from my POV what with the tracking it's just too difficult for a simpleton like myself :thumbsup:
Does it work ? I haven't a Scooby Doo.....
O0
Look I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend anybody.
People relying too much on systems must know how to deal with inertia.
@ hammer
what exactly did you mean by this please ?
"dd LOOK NO FURTHER THAN GRANPS,BUT FROM A DIFFERENT PIECE OF THE ROULETTE EQUIPMENT, ONLY FLAT BET."
Flat betting I luv, it's the only way I play, but I get the impression from your above sentence you mean
play it on RNG ?
O0
Evening DD
play it on either, like Azim i'm not going to give it on a silver platter
good to see the AUSGUY AROUND 2015 DOWN THERE
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 31, 03:28 PM 2014
Evening DD
play it on either, like Azim i'm not going to give it on a silver platter
I never asked you to give it on a silver platter, just to explain your sentence.
I've already stated I don't & won't play this....
So, if you could explain your sentence WITHOUT giving anything away that would be great.
O0
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 31, 03:28 PM 2014
Evening DD
play it on either, like Azim i'm not going to give it on a silver platter
Well here.... Is this silver platter enough for you?
Does that name on that email, look familiar to anyone in the audience?
The person had no guts to reply me back as to who they were..
I didn't care yet I replied them.
Who is this anyways?
Here this is the best approach I have seen to repeaters.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=11565.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=11565.0)
If you are who I think you are, there is really no right or wrong approach.
All you have to do keep tracking and when either repeaters or unique have het a few in a row, do the math and find out how many more spins before you tank out. Once you get that work your bankroll in that ratio.
Don't , I am repeating don't work it the other way.
As an example we know that house edge of 2.7 will eat us up.
So what we do is we say as an example we have 12 unique numbers left. and spin count can go anywhere from 33 to 40.
Now we say , lets do the math we wait and wait.. from here on you are averaging as to how long before those numbers hit.
Once those numbers hit, average it out and add a few more spins. That's the approach I am have tried for unique number's But that has failed on me as well. It's hard to be dead on but with good estimates as the spins are happening, there is a good chance it will stand out. However there is no such thing as being "DUE".
Question is waiting and not getting bored tracking.
Good Luck.
> To: xxxx@xxx.com
> Subject: 37 spin sequence
> From: xxx@xxx.com
> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:21:46 +0000
>
> Hi Azim.
> I have looked at 37 spin sequences and 74 spin sequences for a few years now and totally agree with what you are saying.
> The problem I have is that I have never been able to make anything work.
> I have targeted repeaters and targeted unique numbers appearing.
> Even played one way where I targeted both at the same time waiting for different triggers for each but still with no joy.
> One way I tried to play was to wait for 9 or 11 unique numbers to appear first off.
> My reason for this was because with an average of 13 repeating events appearing within 37 spins by waiting for say 11 unique numbers to show first of all you were now targeting 13 repeating events in 26 spins instead of 37 spins.
> Basically meaning that a repeating event would accur every other spin.
> Although I know it dosent run as true as that,If only it did it would make it easy lol.
> May I please ask have you found a solid way to catch repeaters or unique numbers in a 37 spin sequence ?
> Any hints or tips you may be able to give me would be much appreciated.
> Kindest Regards.
> Dave.
sorry not me
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 31, 04:11 PM 2014
sorry not me
Never said it was you, I said I didn't care who it was.
I dare anyone to tell me, with the answer I gave, I took that person for a walk? Anyone?
Quote from: Azim on Dec 31, 04:18 PM 2014
Never said it was you, I said I didn't care who it was.
I dare anyone to tell me, with the answer I gave, I took that person for a walk? Anyone?
Sorry Azmin, but what does that mean please ?
It's a phrase I've not heard of ?
thxs
O0
Letting them go the wrong way...
Quote from: Azim on Dec 31, 04:23 PM 2014
Letting them go the wrong way...
thxs :thumbsup:
O0
Hello,
I would like to ask, probably Winkel would be the best person to answer. When I have situation like this:
Spin Number 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
35 14 14 8 4 4 3 1
36 14 14 8 4 4 3 1
37 14 13 9 5 4 3 1
38 14 13 9 5 4 2 2
39 13 14 9 5 4 2 2
40 12 15 9 5 4 2 2
41 11 16 9 5 4 2 2
42 11 15 10 6 4 2 2
|
At spin 42 there is a crossing between unhit and hit more than once 11 10. How shall be this crossing played? By betting those 11 unhit numbers so that if any of these numbers hits it will decrease to 10? Or by betting 15 numbers that hit once so that when any of these hits the numbers that hit more than once will increase from 10 to 11? Or is there any other way how to play it? Like for example betting those 10 numbers that has hit more than once? Though if any of these numbers hit "nothing happens" the value still stays at 10, but it will win.
Thank you.
I guess the right way is to play the 11 unhit numbers.
Looking at the numbers you have posted. Hoping them to be correct, I would bet 3's.
If you look at 0's last 4-5 spins they been going down.
Which means they have hit already.
Looking at 1's. They are increasing and decreasing.
>1's are increasing.
2's are increasing.
>2 and 3's have been constant.
If anything I would bet the =3's for 18 spins.
I hope I am right.
/////Just noticed after I posted above/////
I would have also jumped considering my 0's are way less than 1's.
Hi,
dekatria is my email and I have never had any email exchange with anyone with your email.
And I'm not Dave nor I ever use that name. I'm Kav - in every forum and in all my email exchanges.
Can you forward the email to my personal email?
Where did "that" person find your email to message you?
If that was some exchange within our forum, it uses that address because that the admin address of the forum.
Quote from: Kav on Jan 15, 12:12 PM 2015
Hi,
dekatria is my email and I have never had any email exchange with anyone with your email address
And I'm not Dave nor I ever use that name. I'm Kav - in every forum and in all my email exchanges.
Can you forward the email to my personal email?
Where did "that" person find your email to message you?
If that was some exchange within our forum, it uses that address because that the admin address of the forum.
I have no idea, but it did happen.
Opps Sorry
Quote from: Normy2000 on Jan 15, 11:25 AM 2015
I guess the right way is to play the 11 unhit numbers.
Yes, seems to be logical, but I avoided that as in such a phase of the game as it is quite dangerous betting unhit numbers, because only 4 new unhit numbers are expected to appear between spins 37 and 50.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 15, 11:54 AM 2015
Looking at the numbers you have posted. Hoping them to be correct, I would bet 3's.
If you look at 0's last 4-5 spins they been going down.
Which means they have hit already.
Looking at 1's. They are increasing and decreasing.
>1's are increasing.
2's are increasing.
>2 and 3's have been constant.
If anything I would bet the =3's for 18 spins.
I hope I am right.
/////Just noticed after I posted above/////
I would have also jumped considering my 0's are way less than 1's.
Yes, there is another crossing between 3 and >3, but I'm now interested in how to play crossing 0 and >1. At spin 42 there was even one more crossing between 4 and >4 because I'm tracking numbers up to those hit more than 4. But I didn't posted 4 and >4.
I played the situation in different way and won on spin 44. I will post that later as it is quite time consuming to put the numbers here in table like form. But I'm still wondering what is the correct way of playing such crossing.
That is an interesting note about stopping playing when zeroes are lower than ones. I don't remember seeing that mentioned anywhere.
So this is how I played it, I won on spin 44:
Spin Number 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
35 14 14 8 4 4 3 1
36 14 14 8 4 4 3 1
37 14 13 9 5 4 3 1
38 14 13 9 5 4 2 2
39 13 14 9 5 4 2 2
40 12 15 9 5 4 2 2
41 11 16 9 5 4 2 2
42 11 15 10 6 4 2 2
43 11 14 11 7 4 2 2
44 11 14 11 6 5 3 2
|
On spin 43 I bet >1 numbers, so 11 numbers and this bet won next spin as one of the numbers fell for the third time.
But I still don't know if this is correct way of playing crossing 0 vs >1.
Quote from: MrG on Jan 16, 03:16 PM 2015
So this is how I played it, I won on spin 44:
Spin Number 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
35 14 14 8 4 4 3 1
36 14 14 8 4 4 3 1
37 14 13 9 5 4 3 1
38 14 13 9 5 4 2 2
39 13 14 9 5 4 2 2
40 12 15 9 5 4 2 2
41 11 16 9 5 4 2 2
42 11 15 10 6 4 2 2
43 11 14 11 7 4 2 2
44 11 14 11 6 5 3 2
|
On spin 43 I bet >1 numbers, so 11 numbers and this bet won next spin as one of the numbers fell for the third time.
But I still don't know if this is correct way of playing crossing 0 vs >1.
The numbers to bet have to always come from column which has "=". You always go left to right.
In your case you went right to left. If I am right you got lucky.
Maybe you have found a twist that's worth looking into for added profit.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 17, 12:22 AM 2015
The numbers to bet have to always come from column which has "=". You always go left to right.
In your case you went right to left. If I am right you got lucky.
Maybe you have found a twist that's worth looking into for added profit.
So probably played it in wrong way. It seems that Winkel is the only person who can answer this. :-)
Hi Mr. G,
you made a decision. Thats it.
You watched what was going on.
This is what the strategy wants to be.
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on Jan 17, 08:01 AM 2015
Hi Mr. G,
you made a decision. Thats it.
You watched what was going on.
This is what the strategy wants to be.
br
winkel
Hi Winkel,
thanks for replying. I thought your answer might be like that because I remember you mentioned somewhere that GUT is simply a tool for finding out what is going on and betting based on it. All in all it seems that almost any type of play based on GUT and reading what is going on may be correct.
Winkel, considering you still answering and won't be bitter. I am once again, trying to polish my thinking and and trying to prove this wrong..
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=3938.0 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=3938.0)
I know I have my calculations right.
How ever I am having a hard time understanding this statement of yours.
Quote from: winkel on Nov 25, 08:26 AM 2009
As the Formula is hidden we have to find a way to detect any information about it:
The way we know is:
Result A -> (hidden sequence) -> Result B -> (hidden sequence) -> Result C
How we can use it:
we know the situation is 14 13 10
The hidden sequence formed this situation from 3 possible further states:
A) 15 12 10 : A "0" is transformed to an "1"
B) 14 14 09 : A "1" is transformed to an ">1"
C) 14 13 10 : A ">1" has appeared again
if we came from A) then a probability of 15/37 did its job
if we came from B) then a probability 0f 14/37 did its job
if we came from C) then a probability of 10/37 did its Job
(btw: if we add we have 39/37!)
The next hidden Sequence can form also 3 new situations from 14 13 10:
A1) 13 14 10 : A "0" appears
B1) 14 12 11 : A "1" appears
C1) 14 13 10 : A ">1" appears again.
if we reach A1) a probability of 14/37 did its job
if we reach B1) a probability of 13/37 did its job
if we reach C1) a probability of 10/37 did its job.
br
winkel
ps: due to my bad english, i would like to read if there are misunderstandings or not
Would it be possible for you to remember as to what you were trying to layout.
If I look at the number's and the calculations you have done.
If the calculations are right . I would always go with option "A"
Can you prove me wrong?
If I was a follower of probability, which I am. I always work on probabilities, no GUT feeling. the 3 options were we are going to head into the 15/37 has a better chance than any of the other 2. Not only that the current crossing we are dealing with has a higher probability of taking place.
Even your calculations prove it.(BTW for everyone looking at this: see how he has stated 39 /37 : there is your true house edge. It has got nothing to do with the extra zero or the payout.)
Winkel, could you be kind and explain?
Quote from: Kon-Fu-Sed on Oct 19, 12:37 PM 2008
Note: All the "Thread reply #" references below are for this thread:
link:://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/a-gut-situation-tested/msg24874/ (link:://vlsroulette.com/testing-zone/a-gut-situation-tested/msg24874/)
(My "A GUT-situation tested" thread)
Why this test?
winkel claims that 2.7%-losing bets can be combined to give a positive end result.
But when asked for an example, he cannot point to one single such situation.
He claims - as I understand it - that it is because of the stochastik distribution of those losing bets, that the end sum will be positive.
Because when one bet loses, another bet will win... or something like that.
(Thread replies #6 and #16 plus several in his own GUT-threads)
I said that it is a false claim.
A few or many -2.7% results simply CANNOT - according to math laws and probability theories - be combined in such a way that they end up positive.
(Thread reply #4)
But that's what MATH says.
winkel claims that his method is NOT a MATH method but stochastik...
(Thread reply #16)
So I asked winkel for a set of rules for a test and we agreed to use these:
Columns to use:
=0 vs =1, >1 or =2
=1 vs >1 or =2
A crossing is:
a) The "=0" or "=1" column is equal to one or more of their respective "vs"-columns
b) The "=0" or "=1" column contains 1 number more than one or more of their respective "vs"-columns
Consider any crossing where the bet is < 18 numbers.
Select the crossing to bet as the one that gives the highest added value
(f ex 13-12-12 bet 13 as 13+12=25 whereas 12+12=24)
if conditions are met by more than two columns.
Select the leftmost column to bet if there are more than one to choose from.
Stop at +40u or better.
Do not pass spin #50.
(Thread replies #25 and #26)
Later he added an instruction I interpreted as:
"Do not bet more than 36u on a losing column even if the trigger is the same."
He has proved if we come from a 39/37 to a 37/37 result.
If you can find the right number's at the right time. You have a win win situation.
Example going shopping: Go with out looking at any flyers or no deals. You end up paying full price.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 20, 04:26 AM 2015
Winkel, considering you still answering and won't be bitter. I am once again, trying to polish my thinking and and trying to prove this wrong..
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=3938.0 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=3938.0)
I know I have my calculations right.
How ever I am having a hard time understanding this statement of yours.
Would it be possible for you to remember as to what you were trying to layout.
If I look at the number's and the calculations you have done.
If the calculations are right . I would always go with option "A"
Can you prove me wrong?
If I was a follower of probability, which I am. I always work on probabilities, no GUT feeling. the 3 options were we are going to head into the 15/37 has a better chance than any of the other 2. Not only that the current crossing we are dealing with has a higher probability of taking place.
Even your calculations prove it.(BTW for everyone looking at this: see how he has stated 39 /37 : there is your true house edge. It has got nothing to do with the extra zero or the payout.)
Winkel, could you be kind and explain?
This is not a way to go this is theory of probability:
if you find at spin 37 a situation like 14 13 10 you know exactly where it comes from. There are three possibilities: see attachment 1
either way is formed by a "hidden sequence" which we don´t know and understand. Markov says the next movement (way) is formed by the same or a similiar "hidden sequence":
this sequence can form three different ways now: see attachment 2
Our answer to make is: which way will the "hidden sequence" take?
I hope I got your question right. Otherwise pls ask again.
And think of this:
You would alwas take the 15/37! Seems to be ok.
But: If you take "always" this, your results will be as KonFuSed proofed it!!!
How to avoid this?
That 1 group has the highest chance to hit, doesn´t mean it will hit. The other groups will also hit due to their chance.
So the question is: Which chance is due to hit? (I know there is no due, but lets take this word for understanding)
If 0-Group has hit several time or more than it should: We are allowed to ask: Is this streak to stop?
If 0-Group hasn´t it for a long time: We are allowed to ask: Is this streak to stop?
If 0-Group has hit every other spin in a kind of a rhythm: We are allowed toa ask: Is this streak to stop?
If we decide that 0-Group is to bet: We are allowed to ask: How often did it (not) hit at that situation, and how often did one of the other groups (not) hit?
so we have a lot arguments to bet or not to bet.
whats due before the 1st spin of the day
Quote from: nottophammer on Jan 20, 12:49 PM 2015
whats due before the 1st spin of the day
0-Group! If there is a crossing
so euro wheel 37 due
Quote from: nottophammer on Jan 20, 01:16 PM 2015
so euro wheel 37 due
I´m talking about groups. As Roulette only is played with one ball, only one number can hit, but it is out of this group.
Don´t think I´m taking this serious. Dump questions force dump answers.
If you had read this:
QuoteSo the question is: Which chance is due to hit? (I know there is no due, but lets take this word for understanding)
You hadn´t to make yourself a fool
Winkel,
Lets see this for a minute...
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0
|
We know it came from 38 to 39... So can't we say we know were it came from but just don't know were its going to go?
What I am saying is since we are at this crossing, we know how this crossing got there, don't we?
Fancy words, but when you 1st walk in b+m theres 37 due on euro, nows the ? where will they fall
Quote from: Azim on Jan 20, 01:44 PM 2015
Winkel,
Lets see this for a minute...
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0
|
We know it came from 38 to 39... So can't we say we know were it came from but just don't know were its going to go?
What I am saying is since we are at this crossing, we know how this crossing got there, don't we?
Sorry, can´t answer this, because you listed more than 37 numbers: 10+27+17= 54 (if17 is >1)
Quote from: nottophammer on Jan 20, 01:46 PM 2015
Fancy words, but when you 1st walk in b+m theres 37 due on euro, nows the ? where will they fall
Is there a crossing? Has there been a hidden sequence which we can detect?
sorry the 27 is >0..My mistake. Should have told you.
so 10 18 9 moved to 10 17 10 ( 0 ; 1 ; >1)
with this little information I would bet the 17 "1"s.
Could you give me the 15 spins before that and I would explain to work this situation out.
I cannot see what is going on by just two spin-details
Quote from: winkel on Jan 20, 02:17 PM 2015
so 10 18 9 moved to 10 17 10 ( 0 ; 1 ; >1)
with this little information I would bet the 17 "1"s.
Could you give me the 15 spins before that and I would explain to work this situation out.
I cannot see what is going on by just two spin-details
You are right. I would bet the 1's too.
However, did you know, the program that Kon-Fu-Sed never made any consideration to that.
Guy's look at the posting on the first page.
First way which is barely basic to get you on the feet. Was a session with a negative balance.(this was my first run with a program)
Second way which is getting a little knowledge was a small turn around. (I did not cheat to know the number's)
Third way after knowing what you doing. was a huge profit. (Neither was this cheated).
Well Winkel here are the full set of number's.
30 19 13 24 19 5 4 1 1 0
31 9 13 24 18 6 5 1 1 0
32 11 13 24 18 6 4 2 2 0
33 22 12 25 19 6 4 2 2 0
34 3 11 26 20 6 4 2 2 0
35 24 11 26 19 7 5 2 2 0
36 13 10 27 20 7 5 2 2 0
37 36 10 27 19 8 6 2 2 0
38 5 10 27 18 9 7 2 2 0
39 14 10 27 17 10 8 2 2 0
40 23 10 27 16 11 9 2 2 0
41 15 10 27 15 12 10 2 2 0
42 9 10 27 15 12 9 3 3 0
43 8 9 28 16 12 9 3 3 0
44 3 9 28 15 13 10 3 3 0
45 1 8 29 16 13 10 3 3 0
46 3 8 29 16 13 9 4 4 0 |
I have only read first 2 pages so far.
link:://:.michaelcovel.com/pdfs/casino_math.pdf (link:://:.michaelcovel.com/pdfs/casino_math.pdf)
it'll be a goooooooooood reaaaaaaaaaa zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hi Azim,
I wanted to see the spins #22 to #36
now that you showed the following up to #50 I cannot explain my way of thinking.
sorry
winkel
Quote from: nottophammer on Jan 20, 03:26 PM 2015
it'll be a goooooooooood reaaaaaaaaaa zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
What ever that means.
Do you have serious questions?
or just a problem?
Winkel,
Not an issue. All I wanted to say was what "Kon-Fu-Sed" did was to take 37 people and throw them among sharks and say lets see who comes out safe.
I am sorry, no one will come out safe from that situation. Without an understanding of what sharks can do and can't do.
Hello, yesterday I came across following situation on spin 45, there is a crossing 0 vs >1.
Spin Number 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
37 12 15 9 6 3 2 1
38 12 14 10 7 3 2 1
39 11 15 10 7 3 2 1
40 11 15 10 6 4 3 1
41 11 15 10 6 4 2 2
42 11 14 11 7 4 2 2
43 11 14 11 6 5 3 2
44 10 15 11 6 5 3 2
45 10 15 11 5 6 4 2
46 10 14 12 6 6 4 2
|
I decided to focus on numbers >1 in a way that they will go up. So I bet on numbers that fell once, because it is the only way numbers >1 can change (increase). And on spin 46 I won. I'm just wondering if this way of playing is OK? Though according to reply from Winkel to my previous question I would say it is.
Quote from: MrG on Jan 26, 10:36 AM 2015
Hello, yesterday I came across following situation on spin 45, there is a crossing 0 vs >1.
Spin Number 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
37 12 15 9 6 3 2 1
38 12 14 10 7 3 2 1
39 11 15 10 7 3 2 1
40 11 15 10 6 4 3 1
41 11 15 10 6 4 2 2
42 11 14 11 7 4 2 2
43 11 14 11 6 5 3 2
44 10 15 11 6 5 3 2
45 10 15 11 5 6 4 2
46 10 14 12 6 6 4 2
|
I decided to focus on numbers >1 in a way that they will go up. So I bet on numbers that fell once, because it is the only way numbers >1 can change (increase). And on spin 46 I won. I'm just wondering if this way of playing is OK? Though according to reply from Winkel to my previous question I would say it is.
What you are doing is a more sophisticated way to play the GUT.
Your counting is not correct!
0+1+>1 = 12+15+9 = 36 you need a sum of 37
Quote from: winkel on Jan 26, 12:01 PM 2015
What you are doing is a more sophisticated way to play the GUT.
Your counting is not correct!
0+1+>1 = 12+15+9 = 36 you need a sum of 37
Thank you for answering and note about sum of numbers. Actually it is correct, because this is from RNG Betvoyager no zero wheel so there are 36 numbers.
Hello,
I'm still playing with GUT. I remember Winkel mentioned waves and speed of trot. Could someone, probably Winkel would be the right one, explain more these two things? It would be great if you could provide example spins with good wave, bad wave and describe how to decide when to bet.
Regarding speed of trot, Winkel wrote "If trots are fast, don´t bet the early crossings" and "if trots are slow don´t bet the late crossings". I know how to recognize if trot is fast or slow, but what it means not to bet early or late crossings? Again would be great to explain on some example spins.
Thank you.
Hi Mr.G,
early crossings:
If a trot starts 10 3 3 10 3 you will have a crossing 2vs3 in spin 5. Actually it would need another 10 to hit. Would you bet on this?
If you have a crossing 0s 17 and 1s 17 before spin 25 the trot is very fast. I wouldn´t bet this either.
If a trot is slow an you get 17vs16 at spin 37 you have to check the thing what is going on.
e.g. 0s bheaved like this 20 20 20 19 19 18 18 18 17
if all earlier crossings did move away, don´t bet: 20 19 -> 20 18 then 19 19 -> 19 18 and 19 17 then 18 18 -> 18 17 -> 18 16 you can be sure that 17vs17 or 17vs16 will also move away )it is like a wave :thumbsup:
Waves: I don´t know exactly what kind of waves you are talking about.
I defined 1 wave like this:
0s are always going down. >1s are always going up. Only 1s are going up - then up and down - and finally down.
So if you watch 1s behaving like this: 10 11 12 13 12 11 10 11 now you could bet on 12 coming up expecially if there´s a crosiing at that pont. It can be shorter as well like 13 12 13
Is this what you wanted to know?
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on Apr 06, 02:17 PM 2015
Hi Mr.G,
early crossings:
If a trot starts 10 3 3 10 3 you will have a crossing 2vs3 in spin 5. Actually it would need another 10 to hit. Would you bet on this?
If you have a crossing 0s 17 and 1s 17 before spin 25 the trot is very fast. I wouldn´t bet this either.
If a trot is slow an you get 17vs16 at spin 37 you have to check the thing what is going on.
e.g. 0s bheaved like this 20 20 20 19 19 18 18 18 17
if all earlier crossings did move away, don´t bet: 20 19 -> 20 18 then 19 19 -> 19 18 and 19 17 then 18 18 -> 18 17 -> 18 16 you can be sure that 17vs17 or 17vs16 will also move away )it is like a wave :thumbsup:
Waves: I don´t know exactly what kind of waves you are talking about.
I defined 1 wave like this:
0s are always going down. >1s are always going up. Only 1s are going up - then up and down - and finally down.
So if you watch 1s behaving like this: 10 11 12 13 12 11 10 11 now you could bet on 12 coming up expecially if there´s a crosiing at that pont. It can be shorter as well like 13 12 13
Is this what you wanted to know?
br
winkel
Hello winkel,
I have looked at what you wrote several times, but I don't get it. That 10 3 3 10 3 what is not hit, hit once, hit twice, etc.? How do you know that there will be a crossing 2vs3 in spin 5 and that another 10 are needed to hit?
Why wouldn't you bet crossing 0s 17 and 1s 17 before spin 25? What do you expect to happen?
By wave I meant something you described as a wave rolling through columns. You wrote don´t play multiple waves
e.g. 11 15 14 8 play
e,g, 15 10 13 6 don´t play
This is what I asked if you could describe more.
Regarding speed of trot there are 4 control points at spins 13, 25, 37 and 49. There is one thing I'm wondering about. For example at spin 25 there shall be 18-19 unhit numbers, 18-19 hit numbers, 14-15 numbers that hit once and 3-5 numbers that hit more than once. What is the speed of trot when in these categories (unhit numbers, numbers hit once and numbers hit more than once) the speed is different? For example there are 16 unhit numbers = fast, there are 11 numbers that hit once = slow and 10 numbers hit more than once = fast. Or shall we consider it as 3 trots, one trot for unhit numbers, one trot for numbers hit once and one trot for numbers hit more than once?
Thank you for answering.
Hello Winkel
how do you work these numbers
25
13
17
16
21
16
36
4
6
32
9
31
34
1
17
10
23
22
30
30
5
29
24
2
26
0
18
19 28th spin
25
6
2
4
9
21
29
10
32
17
36
9 there 40 spins, can you make good money with these numbers.
Thanks
Hi nottophammer,
at spin 13 there is 25 11 1 quite normal situation
at spin 23 there is already a crossing 0svs1s 17 17 This is much too early. I wouldn´t risk to bet this crossing even it is a fast trot.
at least at this point I would jump without any betting.
thanks for reply
Now i get the idea of the crossings but dont really see how your going to make loads of dollar.
As 28th spin 25 numbers have hit with 3 repeats, well you dont have to be to clever to know theres going to be some repeats,just who is going to repeat out the 25,the next 12 spins are all repeats and the 13th is 26th to hit,
the numbers
25
6
2
4
9
21
29
10
32
17
36
9
35 26 th to hit.
So with the 25 hit where do the repeats start to pay.
Winkel i love this idea but i'll have to go to page one and read how to understand the crossings, its like said to Ddarko when you first arrive to play all 37 numbers are due,its just knowing how to exploit this and this method obviously has the potential to do this.
Perhaps i was a naughty boy as these are rng, but i dont think it makes any difference,as usually by 40spins there are 25 numbers gone roughly this law of the third,which to all intense and purpose looks like results of real wheel.
look at this attachement. How many crossings do you see crossing?
Hello Winkel.
The above looks like a saturday morning after a late friday night, beer goggles.
Now the serious stuff,HELP.
19 36-1
33 35-2
12 34-3
26 33-4
15 32-5
08 31-6
17 30-7
06 29-8
06 29-7-1
32 28-8-1
35 27-9-1
06 27- 9- 0-1
01 26-10-0-1
04 25-11-0-1
12 25-10-1-1
26 25- 9-2-1
26 25- 9-1-2
30 24-10-1-2
29 23-11-1-2
08 23-10-2-2
06 23-10-2-1-1
29 23- 9-3-1-1
26 23- 9-3-0-2 is this right way of recording, thanks
Yes. I recommend using Normy's tracker. I use it all the time for all kind of tracking.
(link:://i.imgur.com/jHPzs54m.jpg)
I always wanted to give this a proper test, what's holding me back is that there is a GUT thread on basically every roulette forum, and apart from Azim and winkel, everyone says it doesn't work.
I wonder what happened to Azim, he couldn't convince anyone that this is indeed a profitable method, and he disappeared after the thread cooled down. I somewhat doubt he even plays this himself, but who knows, maybe he's milking the casinos. :)
Hi Ati
early days with this for me as its the one thing we know when we start all 37 numbers are due to hit,?
Now does the Gut reference mean some decisions are intuitive made from knowledge of what the columns are showing,or is it a definitely stick to the crossings
Hi ati and nottophammer,
I gave up to convince anybody that this is working. It is a strategy you have to excercise.
It all depends on your decisions. The crossings just give the point where it is sensefull to make a decision.
That tracker looks nice, but it doesn´t give you all the informations you need. tracker4 is the best trycker available. But it cuts off informations as well.
br
winkel
Back in January, I created an Excel spreadsheet for the GUT method.
I went through the 80 page G.U.T thread and took pages of notes on what Winkel said and some things he strongly hinted at. I then made a revised list of rules to test, using these notes. I only used the triggers of 0:1,1>1,2>2 and 3>3. Here is the list of rules I used for the spreadsheet.
RULES:
1. Bet more than 7 numbers and less than 18.
2. 17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice
12 to 10 - we bet three times
9 to 8 - we bet four times
3. Don't bet same trigger position more than 2 times in a row.
If the same trigger can be bet 3 times in a row, it is not bet and a new session is started.
4. Always bet 0 vs. 1 crossing first. If it is not the first to bet, start a new session.
5. If the "0" v "1" crossing is before spin 25 start a new session.
6. If there is no trigger for "0" vs. "1" before the 37th spin start a new session.
7. Only play a trigger if it has 1 or 2 hits in the last 4 spins.
8. Play 50 spin session maximum.
9. Don't bet more than one trigger a spin.
10. If difference between 0,1,>1 is less than 2, start a new session.
Example: 11 12 11
11. Start a new session on any net win.
I took care to try and make sure all of these rules were followed.
I ran 20 iterations of 5000 spins (so 100 000 RNG spins) and the end result was less than -1000 units. I tested random.org spins, real spins etc and the result was always negative (either immediately or eventually).
hi i always respect members like mr winkel who giving to all of us a new point of view as has to do with this game , gut is a very good bet selection not the grail, but so close to be , by the way this system have discussed so much in the past, i dont think this happen wtih any other system, i have a suggestion as has to do with the gut , a an update if u like better , i wait for mr winkel statement and then i wll express my opinion best regards pete
Quote from: ati on May 02, 12:49 PM 2015
I always wanted to give this a proper test, what's holding me back is that there is a GUT thread on basically every roulette forum, and apart from Azim and winkel, everyone says it doesn't work.
I wonder what happened to Azim, he couldn't convince anyone that this is indeed a profitable method, and he disappeared after the thread cooled down. I somewhat doubt he even plays this himself, but who knows, maybe he's milking the casinos. :)
Ati, I am around. I have always been active on the forum around X-Mas time. That's when i have more time in my hands.
This is a winning strategy. The question is back to everyone. In order to make this work for you you have to practice and learn from mistakes and your decisions. If you look at my thread titled "Giving back" I was heading in the same direction as Winkel has.
I am sure Winkel will accept this and I for sure will.
I have said this over and over on this thread.. To actually see how Winkel and I make this strategy a winner. Post all the spins with the work out and stop at a crossing, you think you want to play. I am sure, Winkel and I both will have different approach to the crossing.
When I say work out.. I mean this way...
- - 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 36 36 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 9 35 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 32 34 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
4 29 33 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 5 32 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0
6 24 31 6 6 0 0 0 0 0 0
7 17 30 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 0
8 12 29 8 8 0 0 0 0 0 0
9 28 28 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 23 27 10 10 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 30 26 11 11 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 11 25 12 12 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 35 24 13 13 0 0 0 0 0 0
14 7 23 14 14 0 0 0 0 0 0
15 35 23 14 13 1 1 0 0 0 0
16 15 22 15 14 1 1 0 0 0 0
17 18 21 16 15 1 1 0 0 0 0
18 26 20 17 16 1 1 0 0 0 0
19 14 19 18 17 1 1 0 0 0 0
20 26 19 18 16 2 2 0 0 0 0
21 16 18 19 17 2 2 0 0 0 0
22 12 18 19 16 3 3 0 0 0 0
23 25 17 20 17 3 3 0 0 0 0
At this point wait for a reply on the crossing and see the approach.
However, no one want's to do that. Everyone want's it to be laid out on a platter.
This strategy can not be laid out on a platter.
Yes. It can be done using a bot. However, you have to know the basic approach and program it.
If you can't make a decision manually, it can't be programmed.
It took me good 8-9 months to do what i had provided video with a bot playing.
Even Winkel pointed a mistake I knew it was there. I just wanted a quick and dirty approach.
Anyways. Back to the Winning part. It boils down to how much do you want to practice and how much can you grasp and not repeat the same mistakes.
In one of the thread's Winkel said keep a diary, to remind yourself.
Anyways. I have other commitments and can't come to the forum as often as I can during X-Max holidays.
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on May 02, 09:25 PM 2015
I took care to try and make sure all of these rules were followed.
I ran 20 iterations of 5000 spins (so 100 000 RNG spins) and the end result was less than -1000 units. I tested random.org spins, real spins etc and the result was always negative (either immediately or eventually).
Hi,
what about the rule"Watch what is going on"?
As KonFuSed tested every crossing and found out: It´s the same result in the long run -2,7, your coding couldn´t perform better than it did.
Everybody should consider: If I point out a rule like: If.... then.... (no matter how deep its structure will be) and we check that coding with a game of randomness, we will definitely get the results of Probability.
So what can we do? We use this law that all ends up at -2,7!
And we can see in the picture above: Every Line has to cross the other line(s)!
What we can do is to separate the losing crossings from the winning crossings. That´s not easy and not easy to code.
If you want a strategy explained, code it, buy a bot and get rich, then GUT is nothing you should care about.
br
winkel
Quote from: Azim on May 03, 01:15 AM 2015
...
22 12 18 19 16 3 3 0 0 0 0
23 25 17 20 17 3 3 0 0 0 0
At this point wait for a reply on the crossing and see the approach.
Hi Azim,
That is the way it should be done!
I would explain how I calculate and what I would do or not.
.
no matter how hard i try
i dont get it
winkel if u held an internet seminar with video like a classroom id pay to learn....
Quote from: LuckoftheIrish on May 03, 12:49 PM 2015
.
Your message got deleted.
Read the first page of this thread.
I have shown same number's played in 3 different ways of using this strategy.
Which is the right way? I don't think any one can answer. I for sure can't answer that. Winkel might be able to not sure.
The only way to answer that, is keep tracking and learning from mistakes.
Once you learn from mistakes. You won't repeat them as often. Jt's just like learning to walk, once you learnt it, it's hard to fall. However, had you not tried to learn to walk over and over, you would be still crawling.
Is the invested time of understanding the system and practicing really worth it? Do you, or anyone else make money with this system on a regular basis?
What are worst draw downs? Would I be able to make let's say, 100 units a day, without risking of losing a 1000?
To me, the whole idea of crossing looks the same as the idea of repeating. Sure the crossing WILL happen, but we don't know when. Maybe in the next spin, maybe 10 spins later.
I spend most of my time studying repeaters, but the problem is the same. I know it WILL happen, just can't tell when exactly. Based on 30 million rng spins, a number will repeat within 12 spins 86.4% of the time. It sounded like a great way to start, but I failed to create a wining system.
The problem is the usual, long losing streaks.
Sometimes there are no repeats within 12 spins for over 5 times in a row. Even with flat bet, that's a quick 500+ units draw down.
Ati - Very Interesting questions; However from my experience KISS applies to roulette as well;
the simpler is the system the easier / more effective it is to make $.....
Quote from: ati on May 04, 04:07 AM 2015
Is the invested time of understanding the system and practicing really worth it? Do you, or anyone else make money with this system on a regular basis?
What are worst draw downs? Would I be able to make let's say, 100 units a day, without risking of losing a 1000?
To me, the whole idea of crossing looks the same as the idea of repeating. Sure the crossing WILL happen, but we don't know when. Maybe in the next spin, maybe 10 spins later.
I spend most of my time studying repeaters, but the problem is the same. I know it WILL happen, just can't tell when exactly. Based on 30 million rng spins, a number will repeat within 12 spins 86.4% of the time. It sounded like a great way to start, but I failed to create a wining system.
The problem is the usual, long losing streaks.
Sometimes there are no repeats within 12 spins for over 5 times in a row. Even with flat bet, that's a quick 500+ units draw down.
Hi ati,
try this: Play your strategy on repeaters, but bet only when there is a crossing.
eg. F2 5 numbers F3 4 numbers, play for 8 or 9 times. when crossing diappears (like F2 6 and F3 4) stop betting.
Quote from: Chris555p on May 04, 04:12 AM 2015
Ati - Very Interesting questions; However from my experience KISS applies to roulette as well;
the simpler is the system the easier / more effective it is to make $.....
do you know any KISS-System that works?
Yes of course; For ex, Lanky's hg gives very good results imo.
A try with manuel import. BR of £85.00,won £19.00 for .20p units. Might of took a chance in sheet circled with a 2,where the 2X's are, bet the none hit and the 2hit, Winkel is the recording right,thanks NTH
There are some mistakes, but don´t mind.
GUT is just a point where you make a decision. Even when your counting is wrong, you made the right decision.
After a while you won´t be that nervous and won´t be under pressure.
br.
winkel
Thanks Winkel.
Yes getting the figures is a must, but i've always said the only way to go is play the numbers off, this is a good method as you have said your not always betting, where the chance your more than likely be on a loser. Oh yes rng numbers.
Played yesterday Paddy Power, 3 games. win £18.20.
I'll put sheets up tomorrow, made some mistakes in first game but was up, as said post tomorrow
Played these 3 sheets 6/5/15
Must keep focused when recording, still missed a few triggers.
some how these two didn't load as i must of not hit more attach.
well been to ladbrokes, put £15 in and a further £20. Running before learnt to walk but still came out with £42 so plus 7.
3 sessions and 3/3.
Lets see how playing off the 37 not gut did
If you keep on betting this way, pls be aware you´re not betting GUT!
Yes Prof i'll get my fingers burnt. Still going through the old replies. But a great method, some of the players in the bookies ask what i'm doing and i just give them the tittle and vls forum, do some work, but they wont,they'll carry on scattering their chips
Hi Winkel is this okay.
NUM 0X 1X 2X 3X 4X 5X
03 36 1 0 0 0 0
06 35 2 0 0 0 0
05 34 3 0 0 0 0
33 33 4 0 0 0 0
03 33 3 1 0 0 0
29 32 4 1 0 0 0
31 31 5 1 0 0 0
30 30 6 1 0 0 0
30 30 5 2 0 0 0
32 29 6 2 0 0 0
22 28 7 2 0 0 0
21 27 8 2 0 0 0
10 26 9 2 0 0 0
34 25 10 2 0 0 0
13 24 11 2 0 0 0
17 23 12 2 0 0 0
20 22 13 2 0 0 0
17 22 12 3 0 0 0
03 22 12 2 1 0 0 POSSIBLE BET 2V3 ?
07 21 13 2 1 0 0
24 20 14 2 1 0 0
03 20 14 2 0 1 0 END BET
28 19 15 2 0 1 0 19 BUT NO BET
30 19 15 1 1 1 0 POSSIBLE BET 2V3&4 ?
27 18 16 1 1 1 0
04 17 17 1 1 1 0 BET 0V1
18 16 18 1 1 1 0 WIN
19 15 19 1 1 1 0
27 15 18 2 1 1 0 BET 2V3
23 14 19 2 1 1 0
15 13 20 2 1 1 0
12 12 21 2 1 1 0
32 12 20 3 1 1 0 END 2V3 COULD WE BET 2V 3&4
18 12 19 4 1 1 0 END 2V 3&4 WOULD 3V4 BE POSSIBLE BET
23 12 18 5 1 1 0 SEEMS THE 1'S ARE BECOMING 2'S SHOULD WE BET THIS ?
02 11 19 5 1 1 0 SEEMS I MISSED THE BETS
14 10 20 5 1 1 0
24 10 19 6 1 1 0 TWO CHOICES I THINK RESTART OR TRY 1V2 BUT A LOSS AND A WIN
IS MINUS 2 SO RESTART ?
Quote from: nottophammer on May 07, 03:55 PM 2015
Hi Winkel is this okay.
NUM 0X 1X 2X 3X 4X 5X
03 36 1 0 0 0 0
06 35 2 0 0 0 0
05 34 3 0 0 0 0
33 33 4 0 0 0 0
03 33 3 1 0 0 0
29 32 4 1 0 0 0
31 31 5 1 0 0 0
30 30 6 1 0 0 0
30 30 5 2 0 0 0
32 29 6 2 0 0 0
22 28 7 2 0 0 0
21 27 8 2 0 0 0
10 26 9 2 0 0 0
34 25 10 2 0 0 0
13 24 11 2 0 0 0
17 23 12 2 0 0 0
20 22 13 2 0 0 0
17 22 12 3 0 0 0
03 22 12 2 1 0 0 POSSIBLE BET 2V3 ?
07 21 13 2 1 0 0
24 20 14 2 1 0 0
03 20 14 2 0 1 0 END BET
28 19 15 2 0 1 0 19 BUT NO BET
30 19 15 1 1 1 0 POSSIBLE BET 2V3&4 ?
27 18 16 1 1 1 0
04 17 17 1 1 1 0 BET 0V1
18 16 18 1 1 1 0 WIN
19 15 19 1 1 1 0
27 15 18 2 1 1 0 BET 2V3
23 14 19 2 1 1 0
15 13 20 2 1 1 0
12 12 21 2 1 1 0
32 12 20 3 1 1 0 END 2V3 COULD WE BET 2V 3&4
18 12 19 4 1 1 0 END 2V 3&4 WOULD 3V4 BE POSSIBLE BET
23 12 18 5 1 1 0 SEEMS THE 1'S ARE BECOMING 2'S SHOULD WE BET THIS ?
02 11 19 5 1 1 0 SEEMS I MISSED THE BETS
14 10 20 5 1 1 0
24 10 19 6 1 1 0 TWO CHOICES I THINK RESTART OR TRY 1V2 BUT A LOSS AND A WIN
IS MINUS 2 SO RESTART ?
Hello Not:
Is this airball ?
Hi Wink
Is one of the rules not to bet more than 17 units
Quote from: nottophammer on May 08, 05:47 AM 2015
Hi Wink
Is one of the rules not to bet more than 17 units
Yes never bet more than 17 numbers.
another session BIG THUMBS UP PROF WINKEL :thumbsup:
What did i miss
num 0x 1x 2x 3x 4x 5x 6x
09 36 1
28 35 2
06 34 3
26 33 4
27 32 5
06 32 4 1 0 0 0 0
01 31 5 1 0 0 0 0
18 30 6 1 0 0 0 0
32 29 7 1 0 0 0 0
18 29 6 2 0 0 0 0
06 29 6 1 1 0 0 0
10 28 7 1 1 0 0 0
29 27 8 1 1 0 0 0
16 26 9 1 1 0 0 0
11 25 10 1 1 0 0 0
11 25 9 2 1 0 0 0
30 24 10 2 1 0 0 0
17 23 11 2 1 0 0 0
21 22 12 2 1 0 0 0
18 22 12 1 2 0 0 0
16 22 11 2 2 0 0 0 should one be betting the 2's v 3's as 0
15 21 12 2 2 0 0 0
01 21 11 3 2 0 0 0 2's v 3's now 1 carry on as only 1 ?
11 21 11 2 3 0 0 0 win
09 21 10 3 3 0 0 0 2's v 3's again ?
20 20 11 3 3 0 0 0
01 20 11 2 4 0 0 0 if betting was right would now not be valid
04 19 12 2 4 0 0 0
06 19 12 2 3 1 0 0
06 19 12 2 3 0 1 0 now the crossing of 19-18 still not come,but rule not to bet
25 18 13 2 3 0 1 0 amazing i was tempted but resist.
20 18 12 3 3 0 1 0 okay now the confusing bit 0's v 1&2&3 (18 v18) or better to use the trigger
10 18 11 4 3 0 1 0 2's v3's well push the button,Hmm 2's v 3's &5's (4 v 4),are the 2's to far from
06 18 11 4 3 0 0 1 the 1's ? would we still be going for 4 v 4
24 17 12 4 3 0 0 1
20 17 12 3 4 0 0 1 well 4 v 4 was right ?
14 16 13 3 4 0 0 1
34 15 14 3 4 0 0 1 now this is where i bet 0's v 1's
08 14 15 3 4 0 0 1
21 14 14 4 4 0 0 1 i ignored 2v3 instead bet the 0's v 1's
03 13 15 4 4 0 0 1 out the door with the winnings :thumbsup:
Hi nottop,
YOU see the crossings, YOU make a decision. That´s it.
Q: Betting 2vs3 : if the trot is slow you will see that 2 oder higher are repeating. Calculate the risk: 2# and 1#: Will you bet 2 or will you bet 3 units. As long as these are by a small number it is better to bet all them. (See your trot)
br
winkel
When I first joined the forum I had a look at this, and due my limited knowledge of roulette at the time, I didn’t understand it, however, since joining the forum, I've gained much more knowledge of roulette (thanks to all the members who have helped me :) ), and after the thread popped up again in the forum recently, I thought I would give it another read. I believe I now have a good understanding of it , and have started to test, I do like it, thanks winkel, however, it's going to take a lot of practice for me to get "good" at it....
@winkel/Azim, I would appreciate it if you could please look at my first test attached, which I used with the GUT tracker4, and see if you would have it played it any differently, I’m sure you would have!!! Apologies for not showing the table in the actual post, as I’m not too cleaver at doing that sort of thing.
I know there are a few naysayers regarding this system, and I can see why, however, as I've mentioned, I like it, yes, you are betting on an event happening, however, these events happen frequently, and will happen, meaning many betting opportunities, the key is knowing when to bet. For example you could have 10 blacks in a row, and you think, right, red is due as this "event" will happen, which it will...at some point, I'll bet 3 spins maximum, we lose, how long is it before you see 10 blacks, or, reds, etc. again....a long time, with this, the events to bet on are much more frequent, and give you pretty good odds...
Regards
Jim
Jimmie
yesterday ladbrokes had 52 spins £10.40 for .20p units, was going to reset but the paper tracker i'd only printed 1 side,can send the numbers if you want
Hi Wink
I know this form long long ago, but interested in table stop +40 or spin 50. Days 19 to 21, what is the reason days 19,20 all lose and day 21 only touch bet wins. Seems strange all lose on the same days. But like seeing rng having best result over all.
instead of an answer I give you my results
Stop at -40 or +40
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touch , Live , day result , bankroll tot
all , 162 , 60 , 683 , , 905
1 , -49 , -40 , 41 , -48 , -48
2 , -40 , 46 , -26 , -20 , -68
3 , 59 , -41 , -44 , -26 , -94
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11 , -105
5 , -40 , -14 , -40 , -94 , -199
6 , 47 , 41 , 41 , 129 , -70
7 , 44 , -52 , 59 , 51 , -19
8 , -50 , 40 , 44 , 34 , 15
9 , 27 , -40 , -44 , -57 , -42
10 , 56 , 44 , -45 , 55 , 13
11 , -48 , -9 , 55 , -2 , 11
12 , -44 , 37 , 25 , 18 , 29
13 , 6 , -23 , 43 , 26 , 55
14 , -44 , -40 , 44 , -40 , 15
15 , 45 , -50 , 3 , -2 , 13
16 , 54 , 41 , 2 , 97 , 110
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97 , 207
18 , -40 , -30 , 43 , -27 , 180
19 , -6 , -45 , -43 , -94 , 86
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81 , 5
21 , -40 , -44 , 42 , -42 , -37
22 , -42 , 64 , 1 , 23 , -14
23 , -44 , 0 , 43 , -1 , -15
24 , 44 , -41 , -47 , -44 , -59
25 , -44 , -46 , -40 , -130 , -189
26 , -41 , -42 , 35 , -48 , -237
27 , 5 , -2 , 43 , 46 , -191
28 , 42 , -17 , 46 , 71 , -120
29 , -50 , 40 , 23 , 13 , -107
30 , 49 , 47 , 40 , 136 , 29
31 , 41 , -48 , -37 , -44 , -15
32 , 5 , -44 , 20 , -19 , -34
33 , -41 , 52 , 35 , 46 , 12
34 , 47 , 46 , -50 , 43 , 55
35 , 5 , 56 , 46 , 107 , 162
36 , 25 , 51 , 50 , 126 , 288
37 , 42 , -42 , 44 , 44 , 332
38 , -50 , 23 , -47 , -74 , 258
39 , -27 , 55 , 24 , 52 , 310
40 , -51 , -49 , 47 , -53 , 257
41 , 47 , 41 , -50 , 38 , 295
42 , 54 , -16 , -19 , 19 , 314
43 , 41 , 49 , 22 , 112 , 426
44 , -8 , 53 , 47 , 92 , 518
45 , 58 , 51 , 46 , 155 , 673
46 , 42 , -10 , 49 , 81 , 754
47 , -46 , -44 , 32 , -58 , 696
48 , 8 , 50 , -43 , 15 , 711
49 , 45 , 49 , 53 , 147 , 858
50 , 41 , -43 , 49 , 47 , 905
51 , 40 , -46 , 1 , -5 , 900
52 , -21 , -6 , -33 , -60 , 840
stop at +40 or spin 50
[table=,]Day , RNG , Touch , Live , day result , bankroll tot
all , 782 , 222 , 594 , , 1598
1 , -32 , 37 , 41 , 46 , 46
2 , -17 , 46 , -26 , 3 , 49
3 , 59 , -43 , -22 , -6 , 43
4 , 21 , -31 , -1 , -11 , 32
5 , -18 , -14 , -16 , -48 , -16
6 , 47 , 41 , 41 , 129 , 113
7 , 44 , -79 , 59 , 24 , 137
8 , -10 , 40 , 44 , 74 , 211
9 , -45 , -30 , 2 , -73 , 138
10 , 56 , 44 , -49 , 51 , 189
11 , -3 , -9 , 55 , 43 , 232
12 , 17 , 37 , 25 , 79 , 311
13 , 6 , -23 , 43 , 26 , 337
14 , 4 , -66 , 44 , -18 , 319
15 , 45 , 5 , 3 , 53 , 372
16 , 54 , 41 , 2 , 97 , 469
17 , 41 , 30 , 26 , 97 , 566
18 , 59 , -30 , 43 , 72 , 638
19 , -6 , -64 , -69 , -139 , 499
20 , -34 , -43 , -4 , -81 , 418
21 , -55 , -45 , 42 , -58 , 360
22 , 15 , 64 , 1 , 80 , 440
23 , 29 , 0 , 43 , 72 , 512
24 , 44 , -10 , -14 , 20 , 532
25 , -12 , -60 , -111 , -183 , 349
26 , 19 , 27 , 35 , 81 , 430
27 , 5 , -2 , 43 , 46 , 476
28 , 42 , -17 , 46 , 71 , 547
29 , -43 , 40 , 23 , 20 , 567
30 , 49 , 47 , 40 , 136 , 703
31 , 41 , -15 , -37 , -11 , 692
32 , 5 , -27 , 20 , -2 , 690
33 , -41 , 52 , 35 , 46 , 736
34 , 47 , 46 , -93 , 0 , 736
35 , 5 , 56 , 46 , 107 , 843
36 , 25 , 51 , 50 , 126 , 969
37 , 42 , -56 , 44 , 30 , 999
38 , 21 , 23 , -47 , -3 , 996
39 , -27 , 55 , 24 , 52 , 1048
40 , -2 , -75 , 47 , -30 , 1018
41 , 47 , 41 , -107 , -19 , 999
42 , 54 , -16 , -19 , 19 , 1018
43 , 41 , 49 , 22 , 112 , 1130
44 , -8 , 53 , 47 , 92 , 1222
45 , 58 , 51 , 46 , 155 , 1377
46 , 42 , -10 , 49 , 81 , 1458
47 , -43 , -63 , 32 , -74 , 1384
48 , 8 , 50 , -56 , 2 , 1386
49 , 45 , 49 , 53 , 147 , 1533
50 , 41 , -25 , 49 , 65 , 1598
51 , 40 , -79 , 1 , -38 , 1560
52 , -21 , -6 , -33 , -60 , 1500
Quote from: nottophammer on May 26, 11:35 AM 2015
what is the reason days 19,20 all lose and day 21 only touch bet wins. Seems strange all lose on the same days.
It's still gambling, there can be no 100% winner system. Same happened to me while I was playing the gut. One day I won 200 units in about 100 spins flat bet, two days later I had around 25 losing bets in a row.
An unlucky series of numbers can and will come eventually.
Hi Ati
It just seems strange that three different sources all lose same time for 2 days
Think got me tracking right. Now to see how Great Grampas finals crossings would fair
The above sheet, my thinking as we went along
When got in Ladbrokes there on the screen is the previous 11 spins. Now i didn't really want to mark them off,so i started fresh,37 numbers due,( thats right nothings due,LOL). Well the due numbers start to arrive like buses DD, to get the numbers the machine Global draw,think they might have changed their name, want a pound to spin the wheel,i don't want to give them a pound so the bet has to be 6 d/s and hope the zero not come in.
So we get 10 spins no repeat,now before working with GUT, i'd record how long each number takes to hit, with 10 hit theres 27 to find, by the end of the next 30 spins usually the machine gives 15 point something numbers,its nearer to 16 but droping the point stuff leaves a nice 15 half of 30. So at spin 40 we could see 25 numbers hit.
Well look at spin 40, 13 no hitters meaning 24 have hit,just 1 short of the avg 15.
So back to the 10th spin seeing the trot as wink calls it, is fast,2 spins later 12 straight hits, now this to me is saying bet the 12 1x's and you see i did,nice. now were just watching the trot and to the left how the numbers are hitting,the 16 on the 16th spin is the 5th to hit,now i usually see 7 hit on avg in spins 11 to 20 so with 5 already hit i think lets bet the 14 1x's, and far right you see the £2.80 14*.20p and another win. Now winkel says this is not Gut, you telling me he dont watch and bet before 17 no: hit are left.
Okay 20 spins gone, in spins 11 to 20 the usual avg 7 hit, next spin the 19 is here but dont bet, 18 0x left, in spins 21 to 30 expect to see another 5 hit and as 2 already hit, the 16 hit once seem a good bet or should i say decision far right see 1x's, win, +£13.20 for the 3 wins, all down to Gut and from what knowledge gained from keeping a couple thousand games recorded.
24th spin zero so thats the six d/s gone -£1.20 as when not betting got to cheap spin.Trigger 17 v 16 now i dont bet this and it wins, now that its 16 v 17 are we due a >1 now and bet the four, miss, but trigger 16 v16 but rebet the >1's miss and the trigger missed, wil rebet the >1's, miss, 16 v 14 no trigger, but rebet the >1's and win.
30 spins done and 5 hit in spins 21 to 30, so game is going nice. trigger 15 v15, but for some reason dont fancy it and it loses,trigger still on and wins. Now we need 3 wins in spins 31 to 40 for the avg of 15 in 30 spins, we have had 1 hit already, now as theres 8 spins to get to 40 and we only need 2 more to hit i think lets bet the 1x's 16 numbers,will get 2 chances and its a win. The non hit, if keep hitting will not give a trigger. So its just watch time. Number 9 hits making 13-16-8-7, as you can see we've had a 3x and 4x's are the 2x's going to hit,just watch. 37th spin avg looking good,so will the 1x's hit, so start betting the 14 1x's lose but rebet and hit. The hit gives trigger 0x v 1x 13/13 now i've gone against the triggers but start to bet as if it hits it will give the avg of 15 in 30 spins but it misses,so -1 14 numbers in 30 spins,but back to GUT,we can rebet but it misses, now should let it go, but this is where having missed for 7 spins, the longest i've seen it miss is 16 spins so we are well on the way, i can bet it for another 6 spins, then i'll be at max bet, so i'll double the bet and it wins.
So with tracking how a number is hitting from my records and Gut a win of £ 24.60
Thanks for the extra tracking Winkel.
Quote from: ati on May 27, 02:17 AM 2015
It's still gambling, there can be no 100% winner system. Same happened to me while I was playing the gut. One day I won 200 units in about 100 spins flat bet, two days later I had around 25 losing bets in a row.
An unlucky series of numbers can and will come eventually.
Ati bet Azim and Winkel would like to see those 25 losing bets
I don't have the numbers, I only write down statistics, and I have to add that I did not play the original way. I'm still trying new things, and it takes a lot of time to fine tune my version.
Btw, yesterday I had one of the luckier sessions. I only had a short time, so I thought I play a few spins and see how it goes. I had 3 triggers within 10 spins, and I won all three of them on the first bet, and finished the short session with nearly 100 units profit.
Hi nottop,
thats what I´ve always told: watch the crossings and watch what ist going on. If a crossing comes up and you don´t trust it, the next idea is to bet the other chance.
I never had a chance to explain this to this point, because of too many enemies. But as you found by yourself: This ist the chance to bet nearly every spin, if you can detect, what is going on.
BUT: You have to be aware: There is no automatism in it. You can be wrong, Your ability to make the right decisions might be missing. So learn to stop the game. Learn to jump to another sequence and so on.
br
winkel
Hello Winkel
I still do tests on old sheets, heres todays 2sheets from Paddy Power, sheet two is the jump or start to track a new run.
On sheet one top left are the 10 numbers left by another player so i think best to start fresh.
Spin 54 i decided to bet >1's but it said 16 to bet, but the meter said £3.00 instead of 3.20, but as its shows 15 numbers i let it go and lost, rebet and won.
The other red pen is me looking at triggers, like 2 v 3, and the loss of 15 v 14
Sheet 2, two wins before spin 25, but this is the bit,i'd marked 17-15 -6-6 and it dont make the 20, so realised correct to 5-5 and now the >1's gone 17 spins and on sheet 1 the >1's are 15 (16 after correction), the >1's on sheet 2 are showing 5, so to me the >1's are a good bet, i placed the 5 *.20p and thought, am i sure, but remember i could get 5 chances for this, as you can see i wrote BRILL win £6.20.
Next spin the 0x v 1x, i marked it but decided to not bet, should have, left shop after last win on sheet 1. +£35.40.
Hello Winkel
Had these the other day, Jimmie B seen them. Been thinking and looking at those words, watch the crossings and watch what is going on.
Num 0x 1x >1 2x >2 3x >3 4
12 36 1
23 35 2
02 34 3
11 33 4
01 32 5
25 31 6
22 30 7
24 29 8
04 28 9
16 27 10 ok 10 1x's so should watch if dont hit would become a good chance
14 26 11 so 11,1x's, so if carries on very fast trot,could bet for 3 times but
12 26 10 1 1 i didn't
09 25 11 1 1 LOTT 26-9-2 so by 25th spin >1's possibly pick up 2 to 3 more hits? to get this we
34 24 12 1 1 need the 1x's to hit,so those words watch the trot.If we start to bet
11 24 11 2 2 we get 2 chances,but there it is.So just watch
29 23 12 2 2 if we're going to bet the 1x's to increase the >1,need to think of the
07 22 13 2 2 cost which is increasing if the 0x's keep hitting.So watch those 0x's
35 21 14 2 2 0x's now 4out of 5spins or even 6 out of 8. by 25th spin it could look
27 20 15 2 2 18/19,14/15,03/05. So 6 more spins the play safe 1 more spin then
31 19 16 2 2 maybe a bet. Since 10th we've had 8 0x's,so trot is fast. The >1's to
12 19 16 2 1 1 1 me are low. 4 spins to go,think if the 0x's hit be 18 v 17,so bet the 1x's
35 19 15 3 2 1 1 for 16, if miss bet for 17 still be a win if goes that way. but it wins.
30 18 16 3 2 1 1 Now 2 spins to 25th how might they fall,already at 18 so 0x v 1x+2x
25 18 15 4 3 1 1 but we got there fast so the 1x's are a good bet and win. Now is LOTT
23 18 14 5 4 1 1 to good but the answer is did the job. So thinking ahead got us there.
Winkel is the thinking coming
rest of the spins
So trot is meeting LOTT. 15 spins since the 10th finds 9gone of the 15 numbers usually get in 30 spins,dont forget on rng. In next 5 might get 3 more hit, giving 12 in 20 spins. Using LOTT by 37th might see 13/14, 13/14, 09/10 so that means possibly get 5 more 0x's, 1's already there so to are the >1's, so where is it going, best wait
Num 0x 1x >1 2x >2 3x >3 4
23 18 14 5 4 1 1
33 17 15 5 4 1 1 well 0x's falling, 20 units up could bet the 0x's but if wait the crossingbe
17 16 16 5 4 1 1 there,well what you know. 0x v 1x,in the 30 spins said might get 3 and 2
30 16 15 6 5 1 1 have hit so will let go,if its going to get near to LOTT,the >1's need to wake
07 16 14 7 6 1 1 so bet and win,still low,but whats happening,are the 2x's going to hit
02 16 13 8 7 1 1 meaning the 1x's hit again, what about >1V 2x+3x,be ok as long as 1x's
12 16 13 8 7 1 0 1 1 wow if i had the time in the shop,been reading well. Now the 0x's slowed
09 16 12 9 8 1 0 1 1 and longest seen 16 take on rng is 12 spins,with 5 spins to go, if 0x's
36 15 13 9 8 1 0 1 1 hit be near to lott and as can bet for 7 spins it would be bet the 0x's.
06 14 14 9 8 1 0 1 1 0x V 1x those lott is where it should be in 3 more spins, do we bet the 0x
34 14 13 10 9 1 0 1 1 yes miss,where is it going bet the 0x still be on track.
32 13 14 10 9 1 0 1 1 hit. Now that still looks like LOTT,with 1 spin to go.
36 13 13 11 10 1 0 1 1
even thou trigger showing i left shop here as was £14.60 up, and not playing like here, this is just me trying to watch how the trot is going. As said if i played like this in the shop would have made more, but must remember LOTT is only for reference its not written in stone? i'll let Winkel or Azim answer that.
As said before with my records (avg for numbers to hit) and GUT the two give good indicaters to possible betting opportunities.
Evening Winkel is there any hard fast rules on law OTT.
Hi members
Some one asked anyone play Gut in B+M, well here is the Paper tracker i use in licensed betting shops,so should be ok for B+M
Blue line indicate 10 spins, Winkels LOTT in grey at 13,25,37 the numbers to cross out to show what hit on and laid out in columns so you can go down C1 up C2 and down column 3.
Try a few dry runs you might get to see and feel how the game is progressing.
Ladbrokes today
12,13,21,21,24,10,13,25,10,36
R R R
So the above are on the screen left by someone else, shop empty so how long been sitting there,so started fresh.
Know your going to say this is not gut,but i'm using the method.
Still won £15.40
So out lads into corals.
Now different bookies same game supplier and ladbro just opened with 15 straight, so is it likely to be same?
Again didn't use numbers already there.
10/ 35,20,7,30,23,28,28,11,24,22. how many blacks, also look at the sheet
Win £11.80
Num 0x 1x >1 2x >2 3x >3
25 36 1
20 35 2
13 34 3
23 33 4
4 32 5
2 31 6
24 30 7
21 29 8
10 28 9
34 27 10
7 26 11
36 25 12
6 24 13 worth a punt now
2 24 12 1 1
34 24 11 2 2
13 24 10 3 3
22 23 11 3 3
21 23 10 4 4
3 22 11 4 4
17 21 12 4 4
33 20 13 4 4
20 20 12 5 5
1 19 13 5 5
0 18 14 5 5
31 17 15 5 5 now we're at 25 spins trot near perfect is it wrong to think about betting
3 the numbers that are not hit in >1, know its a large number to bet,
32 so whats your thoughts Winkel,THANKS
27
11
14
8
33
25
24
4
15
25
17
9
16
7
15
3
26
35
12
36
23
11
21
30
12
34
8
3
1
3
6
19
2
17
6
17
30
Hi,
at spin 13 we have 24 13 so this trot is fast. It should be 26 9 2
at spin 25 we have 17 15 5 so it is still fast.
the 2hits may keep 2s a long time so it is better to wait for a real crossing. and bet crossings unhit vs. hit.
Thanks
Dont it say some where to not bet the early crossings if trot is fast.
the crossing comes and loses,then comes again and wins, then be better to jump or wait some time for 1x's V's 2x's.
Again thanks Winkel
Hey Winkel,
May I ask how many units you are ahead with Holy Grail (rough estimate)?
Thanks! :thumbsup:
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 10, 11:50 AM 2015
Thanks
Dont it say some where to not bet the early crossings if trot is fast.
the crossing comes and loses,then comes again and wins, then be better to jump or wait some time for 1x's V's 2x's.
Again thanks Winkel
there is no early crossing in this trot. at spin 25 it is 17 15 and moves away to 17 14
the next crossing 16 15 will hit
Quote from: thelaw on Jun 10, 12:06 PM 2015
Hey Winkel,
May I ask how many units you are ahead with Holy Grail (rough estimate)?
Thanks! :thumbsup:
If I tell, nobody would believe. They would say it is faked and I had to proof it.
I also have losses by wrong decisions. But over all I´m in Plus.
Quote from: winkel on Jun 10, 01:58 PM 2015
If I tell, nobody would believe. They would say it is faked and I had to proof it.
I also have losses by wrong decisions. But over all I´m in Plus.
So would this be considered a grind system (just a few units per hour), or does it come out further ahead than that?
Again, Thanks for the info! :)
Quote from: thelaw on Jun 10, 02:17 PM 2015
So would this be considered a grind system (just a few units per hour), or does it come out further ahead than that?
Again, Thanks for the info! :)
If you learn to see that there is no chance in that trot and to stop or to jump, or if you learn to ride a strong trot it will come out further than that.
Quote from: winkel on May 28, 01:12 PM 2015
Hi nottop,
thats what I´ve always told: watch the crossings and watch what ist going on. If a crossing comes up and you don´t trust it, the next idea is to bet the other chance.
I never had a chance to explain this to this point, because of too many enemies. But as you found by yourself: This ist the chance to bet nearly every spin, if you can detect, what is going on.
BUT: You have to be aware: There is no automatism in it. You can be wrong, Your ability to make the right decisions might be missing. So learn to stop the game. Learn to jump to another sequence and so on.
br
winkel
Winkel, would it be possible for you to carry on with your explanation under a new thread.
Hi Azim,
I´m sorry, but I´m too tired now. My head is slowing down
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on Jun 11, 01:59 PM 2015
Hi Azim,
I´m sorry, but I´m too tired now. My head is slowing down
br
winkel
There is no rush. If and when you feel like it.
Hello winkel and Azim
At spin 13 LOTT is 26-9-2-2
At spin 25 LOTT is 18/19-14/15-03/05 -?? what is the figure for 3 being hit
At spin 37 LOTT is 13/14-13/14-09/10 -?? what is the figure for 3 being hit
Hello Winkel and Azim.
RGN in the UK bookmakers, supplying the program Global Draw unless changed there name.
Anyway played 2 games tonight but different bookies,Ladbrokes first, game fast 7 numbers in 1st 10 spins so 15.7 #'s in next 30spins. i'll attach later. Win here going to go home but corals over the road, so start to record, 9 numbers in 1st 10 spins so 15.7 #'s in next 30 spins, slow but trot picks up, i'll attach later.
Now the reason for posting, the 1st game 15 #'s in 20 spins, 2nd game 13 #'s in 22 spins and different shop but same supplier, so thought i'd see what happens if use the 32 spins in corals on the ladbrokes game, well what a surprise perfect fit 37th spin ends 13-14-10-7 -3-3 .
Just seems to good about five minuets to get from one shop to the other, attach the corals results to the ladbrokes and the usual result 18#'s in 30 spins so plus 3 and 31 #'s gone in the 60 spins. Who knows how these RNG's work
heres the 2 sheets
the 11 numbers in top left margin are the numbers on screen when beginning
Look at the trot
You know its RNG. Cant believe it happened again 23rd spin 3 hits and i'm betting the 1X+>1 and lost, now the 3 becomes a 1X and next bet is again 1x+>1, yes i forgot to bet the 3, yes repeats the 3, so the only one not covered for this particular bet it puts in, is there something fishy going on.
But still won 58 units and winkel says if 39 units that should be good enough
In the above
The crossing is near as KTF says the 20th to 26th numbers to be hit on avg take 3 spins,with 12 spins left KTF needs only 3 unhit to meet its avg of 15.7 in 30 spins,so if KTF's avg is reliable, the 1x+>1 of GUT must be a good bet.
The >1 need 2 hits to be at Winkels avg of 09/10, with 9 spins left if they dont come where are the bets, the 1x+>1 must be the way to go as will we see the 0x's hit go on a run.
Those 0x's need 3 to be at winkels avg and KTF's avg, so would you ppl bet the 1x+>1 with a progression,if the 0x's are hitting the >1 will not need to be increased for 5 spins,the 1x's at 13 could be bet twice if the 0x's are hitting,so if we get 2 0x's hit the 1x's will need to be increased next bet.
The highest seen keep the faith be at total 40spins is +5 on the 1st 10 spins so here we are 8/10,so 23 hits at 40th spin would be its avg, but if the 0x's go on a run and gets +5 being at spin 28 with 20 numbers hit and 12 spins left would we not see 4 repeats a possibility
All this must be contemplated like Azim says exercise, practice,practice, the last 7 games played have made £95.80 starting with .20p units
this sheet is the first 60 numbers from XXedos test file in DD flat hot splits reply 5.
Exercising is good made 44 units in 4 bets,shame weren't in betting shop
Rayman heres the spins
26
21
12
9
15
31
16
36
19
19
14
25
10
34
15
21
14
26
1
36
26
10
24
6
22
31
24
9
29
0
14
11
20
33
13
24
26
12
23
21
9
7
Won 64 units.
Even thou 14th number to be hit took 5spins and 15th took 4 spins, 9 spins two hits, the game still got the usual 15 numbers in 30 spins,so betting the 0x's with +1/-1, still made the win.
The 0x V 1x crossings misbehaved,even the1x V 2x would you bet ? i did bet the last crossing and won
nottophammer, thank you for everything.
I am sure people will now appreciate how much this is doable with practice!!!
:thumbsup:
Now I finally found this. Yea. :D
But where do I start? :(
There so much to read that I can't find the head of this.
Which tracker do I use and where do I start?
Could someone guide me?
Thank you.
Quote from: valnurat on Aug 14, 07:02 AM 2015
Now I finally found this. Yea. :D
But where do I start? :(
There so much to read that I can't find the head of this.
Which tracker do I use and where do I start?
Could someone guide me?
Thank you.
Read the first page. You will find everything there.
Quote from: Azim on Aug 14, 07:58 AM 2015
Read the first page. You will find everything there.
I made a nice GUT tracker.
link:://:.hostxs.nl/roulette/tracker (link:://:.hostxs.nl/roulette/tracker)
Quote from: Azim on Aug 14, 07:58 AM 2015
Read the first page. You will find everything there.
Ok. I did, but I have some questions.
The quotes are from here:
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0 (link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0)
QuoteFirst the basics:
We know at the first spin there has to appear one number, so we count:
36 not appeared - 1 appeared
35 - 2
34 - 3 etc.
then we might come to this point:
19 - 18
now we bet the 19 numbers that not appeared because the statistic has to change to 18 - 19
during the spins we bet when the following combinations appear:
19 - 18
18 - 17
17 - 17
17 - 16
16 - 16
16 - 15
15 - 15
15 - 14
14 - 14
14 - 13
etc.
the difference between appeared and not appeared numbers has to be 0 or 1.
So if the first 18th spin is numbers from 0 - 17 as appeared then I guess I bet on 18-36 on the number, right?
How much do you bet?
You talk about flat bet. What is that?
QuoteThe second bet situation:
we have numbers that appeared once and numbers that appeared more than once:
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared once.
So if 0 comes out again in the 19th spin, what then? Do I bet on 0? How much do I bet?
And I don't bet on 18-36, because as I understand the difference between appeared and not appeared numbers has to be 0 or 1, as I see in the tracker from RayManZ, which looks very nice.
What do I do if the 20th spin is 1? Do I bet on 0 and 1? How much?
QuoteThe third situation to bet:
We have numbers that appeared twice and numbers that appeared more than twice.
every time there is a difference of 0 or 1, we bet the numbers that appeared twice.
What happens if 0 comes in the 21th spin - What then? Do I still bet on 0 and 1 and how much?
Quote
if we have to bet 19 or 18, we just bet once
if we have to bet less than 18, then we bet as often as there is a win or 0 possible:
17 to 13 numbers - we bet twice
12 to 10 - we bet three times
9 to 8 - we bet four times
This I really don't understand.
I'm very sorry that it is not clear for me as it seems for others. :-[
I hope you can explain it to me.
valnurat,
Sorry to say this. You can prove me wrong.
Based on your questions, this method is not for you.
My advice to you is read up on roulette first, understand the basic concept and after you think you have it all understood. Come back to this and read it.
If I were in your place and I am sure people will agree, PLEASE DONT PLAY WITH REAL MONEY.
Totally granted it's yours to throw away. If you going to throw it away donate it to a reputable charity of your choice.
Well, I know how roulette works.
But why not send me in the right directions to learn what flat bet is for an exampel?
1st time is hard for everyone. I guess you didn't understand it first time either, did you?
Is it that hard to answer my questions or is it because you don't want to?
Quote from: valnurat on Aug 15, 03:04 AM 2015
Well, I know how roulette works.
But why not send me in the right directions to learn what flat bet is for an exampel?
1st time is hard for everyone. I guess you didn't understand it first time either, did you?
Is it that hard to answer my questions or is it because you don't want to?
Sorry looks like I have missed something.
I will let someone else advice you.
Quote from: Azim on Aug 15, 03:20 AM 2015
Sorry looks like I have missed something.
I will let someone else advice you.
Wow, very mature. :thumbsup:
Strange forum.
I guess this thread is only for The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ???
Hi Azim
Yes, I'm new to forum and trying to learn the dos and don'ts.
But you are right. I'm on page 23 in the bible of the Holy Grail By Winkel. OMG this is hard, but I'm learning.
I do have a small question. When do you jump back 19 numbers?
I have from a game these numbers and I have been using the tracker from RayManZ, which is very nice.
I will post my numbers maybe you can tell me in what spin it was good to jump.
Sp ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
01 01 36 01
02 18 35 02
03 11 34 03
04 26 33 04
05 31 32 05
06 34 31 06
07 32 30 07
08 27 29 08
09 22 28 09
10 29 27 10
11 02 26 11
12 07 25 12
13 02 25 11 01 01
14 07 25 10 02 02
15 24 24 11 02 02
16 35 23 12 02 02
17 12 22 13 02 02
18 07 22 13 02 01 01 01
19 24 22 12 03 02 01 01
20 17 21 13 03 02 01 01
21 33 20 14 03 02 01 01
22 29 20 13 04 03 01 01
23 25 19 14 04 03 01 01 P19# R
24 20 18 15 04 03 01 01 W-19+36=+17
25 12 18 14 05 04 01 01
26 36 17 15 05 04 01 01
27 18 17 14 06 05 01 01
28 25 17 13 07 06 01 01
29 19 16 14 07 06 01 01
30 31 16 13 08 07 01 01
31 20 16 12 09 08 01 01
32 35 16 11 10 09 01 01 P11# 1
33 21 15 12 10 09 01 01 L-11+17=+6
34 31 15 12 10 08 02 02
35 24 15 12 10 07 03 03
36 21 15 11 11 08 03 03 P11# 1
37 09 14 12 11 08 03 03 P12# 1
38 16 13 13 11 08 03 03 P13# R
39 03 12 14 11 08 03 03 W-11-12-13+36=0+6=+6
40 35 12 14 11 07 04 04
41 26 12 13 12 08 04 04 P13# 1
42 22 12 12 13 09 04 04 W-13+36=+20+6=+26 P12# R
43 26 12 12 13 08 05 05 L-12+26=+14 P12# R
44 30 11 13 13 08 05 05 W-12+36=+24+14=+38 P13# 1
45 36 11 12 14 09 05 05 W-13+36=+23+38=+61
46 04 10 13 14 09 05 05
47 36 10 13 14 08 06 06
48 05 09 14 14 08 06 06 P14# 1
49 21 09 14 14 07 07 07 L-14+61=+47 P14# 1
50 22 09 14 14 06 08 08 L-14+47=+33 P14# 1
51 32 09 13 15 07 08 08 W-14+36=+22+33=55
52 29 09 13 15 06 09 09
53 15 08 14 15 06 09 09
54 23 07 15 15 06 09 09 P15# 1
55 19 07 14 16 07 09 09 W-15+36=+21+55=76
56 01 07 13 17 08 09 09
57 23 07 12 18 09 09 09
58 07 07 12 18 09 09 08 01
59 06 06 13 18 09 09 08 01
60 36 06 13 18 09 09 07 02
61 20 06 13 18 08 10 08 02
62 14 05 14 18 08 10 08 02
63 26 05 14 18 08 10 07 03
64 30 05 13 19 09 10 07 03
65 09 05 12 20 10 10 07 03
66 26 05 12 20 10 10 07 03
67 35 05 12 20 10 10 06 04
68 19 05 12 20 09 11 07 04
69 09 05 12 20 08 12 08 04
I jump when i've lost two crossings or when i'm in profit. When you think the wheel is against you just make a jump.
Could you, in my exampel tell me from what spin to spin I should jump, if I should follow your guideline.
:)
Hi valnurat
As the Guvnor Winkel would say you are seeing the crossings.
As you practice more and read more you will find more advice, like not to bet when two crossing are showing, 49 21 09 14 14 07 07 07 but IMO you could bet both the 1x v >1 + 2x v 3x, 14 +7 if you were to lose you could rebet if lose again the 1x would need to be doubled to maintain a profit on them,if win and profit is plus you could then carry on betting the 2x if you wanted to.
Watch the trot winkel broke down the 37 spin cycle to 13th spin 25th spin and 37 th spin, look at those spins,at 12th spin you show the >1 not hit so the 1x are to hit if you are to see >1 increase.
At spin 25 you show the game playing to the expected spin cycle, at 37th spin 0x hit as expected the 1x and >1 slightly out of sync.
When to jump, somewhere in the posts its mentioned if at 39 units you could jump or play to the 50th spin then jump, but as you read you'll come across this.
Good luck,we all need a bit now and again
Azim
as you can see iwas betting the 1x+>1 as the 0x was high. Got the wins and went for the >1 starting with the usual .20p unit start, had to double the £1.80 but came in. With only 1 >1 showing went for it being 9 a £1.80 start wins with 4 units on.
A total Win of 75 units with some other bets earlier
If at 25th spin and >1 has not won is it the way to go
NTH
When I was playing for fun for testing I came across this and I would like your comment on this.
Game 1:
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
39 34 15 11 11 5 6 6 0
40 10 14 12 11 5 6 6 0
41 35 14 12 11 5 6 5 1 Do I bet both 1 vs >1 and 2 vs 3?
42 4 14 11 12 6 6 5 1 Where do I bet here: 2 vs >2 and/or >2 vs 3?
43 28 14 11 12 5 7 6 1
44 36 14 10 13 6 7 6 1 Do I bet 2 vs 3?
45 2 13 11 13 6 7 6 1
46 22 13 10 14 7 7 6 1 This is the same question as in SP 42?
47 16 12 11 14 7 7 6 1 I bet 0 vs 1 but I also bet 2 vs >2 and/or >2 vs 3?
48 30 12 11 14 7 7 5 2
49 11 11 12 14 7 7 5 2
50 22 11 12 14 6 8 6 2 I guess I should use the answer for SP 44
51 35 11 12 14 6 8 6 2
52 1 11 12 14 5 9 7 2
Answer to sp 41
Me yes,i'd bet both as if lose can rebet, if success with the 1x remember how many times you've bet the 2x which is showing 5,think how many more times you could bet the 2x's with out increasing the unit to make a profit, if say you've bet 15 units on 2x's you could leave alone and if dont hit for X number of spins you could pick up where you left it.
Be back as of to the chiropodist
Do you have any other feedback to my post?
Quote from: valnurat on Aug 27, 07:08 AM 2015
Do you have any other feedback to my post?
valnurat ,'
nottophammer has said it right.
It also depends on your ability to understanding whats going on with that session.
Knowing the result's anyone can say what ever the seen outcome is.
However, Had you bet both and carried on you would have made 20 units with the 2's.
Having said that, the rule is to bet the crossing with the most number's. Sometimes we all break rules to suit ourselves.
With Winkel's rules the bankroll is 500 unit's. However, remember if you start betting both the crossings the rule has been broken. Which mean's the 500 unit bankroll does not apply and you need more for the spins from hell.
I believe people are trying all sorts of variation of the GUT and not adjusting the bankroll accordingly.
;D
Quote from: valnurat on Aug 21, 03:23 PM 2015
Could you, in my exampel tell me from what spin to spin I should jump, if I should follow your guideline.
:)
There is only one person who could tell you to jump or not to jumpe: Only You
Do you see upcoming crossings? No? Then jump!
Do you see multiple crossings? Do you see which is best bet? Do you hesitate? Jump!
Quote from: valnurat on Aug 26, 04:19 AM 2015
When I was playing for fun for testing I came across this and I would like your comment on this.
Game 1:
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
39 34 15 11 11 5 6 6 0
40 10 14 12 11 5 6 6 0
41 35 14 12 11 5 6 5 1 Do I bet both 1 vs >1 and 2 vs 3?
42 4 14 11 12 6 6 5 1 Where do I bet here: 2 vs >2 and/or >2 vs 3?this is not a bet opportunity because >x is always going up and all following groups belong to it.
43 28 14 11 12 5 7 6 1
44 36 14 10 13 6 7 6 1 Do I bet 2 vs 3? Are you sure? Bet! Are you not sure? Don´t bet!
br
winkel
Thank you for the feedback. :)
Quote from: Azim on Oct 13, 02:25 PM 2014
People have seen my video's with this strategy working using a bot. BTW, the bot is not for sale.
Hi Azim.
Where do I find this video?
Quote from: valnurat on Sep 01, 09:52 AM 2015
Hi Azim.
Where do I find this video?
I don't have them handy anymore.
oki dokie.
Another thing is. I have been trying GUT and I must say there is something in my Heart that say that is very good, but for some reason I don't get a profit on this even though I think I do the right thing. But I was thinking if I give you my spin you could tell me what you would have done in my situation. Will that be ok?
My first 20 spin goes like this:
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
1 9 36 1
2 20 35 2
3 23 34 3
4 27 33 4
5 6 32 5
6 16 31 6
7 35 30 7
8 14 29 8
9 19 28 9
10 1 27 10
11 3 26 11
12 26 25 12
13 6 25 11 1 1
14 7 24 12 1 1
15 6 24 12 1 0 1 1
16 33 23 13 1 0 1 1
17 36 22 14 1 0 1 1
18 25 21 15 1 0 1 1
19 31 20 16 1 0 1 1
20 34 19 17 1 0 1 1 - I would have been betting here, but I'm not sure. What would you have done?
I guess I should have posted my exampel here:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15708.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15708.0)
Sorry about that.
Basic Rule #1: don´t bet more than 17 numbers
Basic Rule #2: (for beginners) don´t bet before spin 25
Basic Rule #3: (for beginners) don´t bet after spin #50
Thank you for the basic rules, but now rule 1 & 2 are in conflict.
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
20 34 19 17 1 0 1 1 0
21 21 18 18 1 0 1 1 0
22 34 18 17 2 1 1 1 0
23 35 18 16 3 2 1 1 0
24 29 17 17 3 2 1 1 0 - What would you do in this situation? As I understand it. You will only bet 0 vs 1 and not
2 vs >2 or 3 vs >3, because you bet the crossing with most numbers, right?
Hi winkel,
Could you tell me how your betting is affected by a slow normal or fast trot? You also stated somewhere that sometimes you'll increase your bets? What are good hints for an increased bet?
Hi valnurat
Gut as you know is waiting for a crossing.
Whilst waiting for that crossing Winkel gave you the 37 spin cycle broke down in to three parts 13th spin then 25 and the 37th spin,this gives info on how the trot is going,i find.
In your first 20 spins by the 11th spin the >1 have not hit,now the 13th spin Winkel says its possible you'll see 26-9-2,so i would start to bet the 1x's.
In the 1st 10 spins theres no repeat, so for me at spin 40 there could be only 12 0x left, if this happens, then during those 30 spins you'll have had 15 0x, hit, half the 30 spins. Now this is where understanding the trot comes in, believe me it can be hard to read.
So for the 25th spin i'd bet the crossing 17-17 misses, i'd bet the 1x +>1.
Quote from: valnurat on Sep 02, 04:32 PM 2015
Thank you for the basic rules, but now rule 1 & 2 are in conflict.
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
20 34 19 17 1 0 1 1 0
21 21 18 18 1 0 1 1 0
22 34 18 17 2 1 1 1 0
23 35 18 16 3 2 1 1 0
24 29 17 17 3 2 1 1 0 - What would you do in this situation? As I understand it. You will only bet 0 vs 1 and not
2 vs >2 or 3 vs >3, because you bet the crossing with most numbers, right?
There are a lot of possible thinkings in this:
1) it is spin 24 and we woulde bet after 25
2) this trot is fast, so a bet could be possible on 0vs1
3) but as we see in the spins before the crossings are now fading away: 18 18; 18 17; 18 16 (would be 2 misses)
So
I am in doubt and would wait to see if next crossing (17 17) fades away again (trot is slowing down) or crossings hit (fast trot stays fast)
Whatever comes up, same thinking will give me the hint to bet crossings of the favourite colums (2x, 3x, or higher) by tending trot to get slow.
By trending trot to stay fast b et crossings 0vs1 1vs>1 or 1vs2
Quote from: RayManZ on Sep 03, 02:41 AM 2015
Hi winkel,
Could you tell me how your betting is affected by a slow normal or fast trot? You also stated somewhere that sometimes you'll increase your bets? What are good hints for an increased bet?
see answer before
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
24 29 17 17 3 2 1 1 0
25 3 17 16 4 3 1 1 0
You want to bet on 0?
So the 1x +>1 = 20 units. Win
0x- 1x- >1 2x >2 3x
25th spin is 17 -16- 4- 3- 1- 1
0x - 1x - >1
Winkel says could be 18/19 - 14/15 - 03/05
Now at 37th spin we could see >1 09/10 this would need the 1x to hit 5 or 6 times, which would be half of the next 12 spins.
I'd bet 1x+>1 20 units
Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 03, 05:54 PM 2015
0x - 1x - >1
Winkel says could be 18/19 - 14/15 - 03/05
Now at 37th spin we could see >1 09/10 this would need the 1x to hit 5 or 6 times, which would be half of the next 12 spins.
I'd bet 1x+>1 20 units
I'm not sure where you get this. :-[
Some where in the posts Winkel posted how he breaks the 37 spin cycle into 3 parts
at 13th spin you could see
0x-26,1x-09,>1-02
25th spin could see
0x-18/19, 1x- 14/15, >1- 03/05
37th spin you could see 0x-13/14, 1x-13/14, >1- 09/10.
So in your reply 465 by the 10th spin you show no >1 have hit, so here is a chance for the 1x's to hit, as its possible to have the >1 be showing 2 hits at the 13th spin, but remember if you try to win here with the 1x's,your not really playing GUT,but making use of the trot
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
1 9 36 1
2 20 35 2
3 23 34 3
4 27 33 4
5 6 32 5
6 16 31 6
7 35 30 7
8 14 29 8
9 19 28 9
10 1 27 10
11 3 26 11
12 26 25 12
13 6 25 11 1 1
14 7 24 12 1 1
15 6 24 12 1 0 1 1
16 33 23 13 1 0 1 1
17 36 22 14 1 0 1 1
18 25 21 15 1 0 1 1
19 31 20 16 1 0 1 1
20 34 19 17 1 0 1 1
valnurat
what does the trot show.
To me, i dont know how many colour, dozens,column or put simply outside bets will hit in 37 spin cycle,
But in the 37 spin cycle you know you will get X amount of 0x's hit.
Now watching the trot you will see form spin 1, X amount of 0x's hit, if like in reply 465 after 10 spins no, >1's are showing, so the 1x's are to me over due, Oops i'm told in roulette nothing is due. Now the ? is do you still wait or bet the 1x's to hit, as said this type of bet is not Gut its using the trot.
Quote from: valnurat on Sep 03, 04:42 PM 2015
SP ## 0 1 >1 2 >2 3 >3
24 29 17 17 3 2 1 1 0
25 3 17 16 4 3 1 1 0
You want to bet on 0?
NO! Watch the trot:
18 18
18 17
18 16
17 17
17 16 I predict next spin to 17 15
So I don´t bet this crossing and to get away from this fading away I would jump!
Jimmie
8/10, 30 spins later 14 0x just 1 short of avg 15 in 30spins, looked what dropped in next spin.
Heres the old way i use to record how the 37 numbers hit. I wanted to know how the numbers were repeating,so tracked this way, when first saw Gut ignored it, but thank someone for bringing GUT up again. Now i could see how the methods were similar, but Gut showed me how or who was repeating. So a new paper tracker was needed, thus the GUT paper tracker evolved.
Back to KTF
The idea was to see how many of the 37 hit in first 10, didn't want more than 27/28 to be betting on over the next 30 spins.
So you see a 2 column for the 1st 10 spins, then 5 blocks of four, 11-20,21-30,31-40,41-50 and spins 51 to 60.
In spins 11 to 20 usually see 7 0x's, again thats usually. Spins 21 to 30 usually see 5 more 0x's hit and spins 31 to 40usually see 3 0x's, which over the 30 spins is 15 0x hits,
so the KTF sheet says during spins 11 to 40 we should on avg get 15 0x hits,
As you can see spins 11 to 20 produced 6 0x,1 less than the usual 7 hits, and i wrote 6+1, but spins 11 to 20 should really give 5, one third of the 15 hits we are expecting over the 30 spins.
In spins 21 to 30 you see at the bottom 10 + 0, 4 0x's have hit, 6+4 = 10, 0x in 20 spins .
So spins 31 to 40 would be expecting another 5 non hit (5, 0x) at the bottom is 22 so minus 1, the rng gave 14 non hit in 30 spins.
Where usually see produced 7 non hit, 5 non hit and 3 non hit you can reference this to the trot or 5non hit, 5 non hit,5 non hit, again to the trot.
But what you really need as well is how long each of the 37 can miss for , like when the first 10 numbers have hit, how long can the 27 left take to come in, answer, to my records which are not up todate is 5 spins on rng.
The avg for numbers to be hit, 11th to the 19th to be hit is on avg 2 spins, look at the sheet above or on GUT sheet in reply above, you'll see 12th non hit takes 3spins to hit 1 more than the avg2,same for the 14th non hit to be hit, this you can refer to on the trot, its just more info, the more the better.
2 games from earlier
1 ladbrokes Enfield,Windmill hill, game 2 ladbroke Enfield,church street
Game 1 went ok won 56units.
Game 2 how many zeros still made a profit of 8 units as the pessky zero not covered when cheap spinning.
Again all rng
removed Law's posting. PM should stay there...in PM.
The clue is in the word PRIVATE. Any issues, click the report to Mod button or PM a mod ...oh, didnt I already say that a few times?
Sorry if others had their posts deleted because they have a quote in.
Hi Winkel/Azim
Do you think be okay to go for a hit 3, by this i mean start to bet the >1 after say 19th spin, lets say the 19th reads 23-9-5-5
it comes in 6spins later 19-12-6-5-1-1 a 3 unit profit.
The 2 sheets above would win
Quote from: nottophammer on Nov 19, 12:24 PM 2015
Hi Winkel/Azim
Do you think be okay to go for a hit 3, by this i mean start to bet the >1 after say 19th spin, lets say the 19th reads 23-9-5-5
it comes in 6spins later 19-12-6-5-1-1 a 3 unit profit.
For me It would depend on how the numbers are falling. Again betting 5 numbers I would have tried it too. but and fewer than 4 i would skip that.
Thanks Azim
When going for the above,we are aiming for a win within the 36units, so we could increase the units to return 72 units and so on
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Re: Grassroots-1,2,3 A dozens idea
« Reply #608 on: December 05, 2015, 11:39:02 AM »
Quote
Quote from: nottophammer on December 05, 2015, 11:13:39 AM
So when you math boys going to produce the fomula to beat roulette.
You already have it in GUT. Shouldnt that be enough?
Good enough for me £11.00 for .20p units. Especially the 2x+3x
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 10, 01:01 PM 2015
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Re: Grassroots-1,2,3 A dozens idea
« Reply #608 on: December 05, 2015, 11:39:02 AM »
Quote
Quote from: nottophammer on December 05, 2015, 11:13:39 AM
So when you math boys going to produce the fomula to beat roulette.
You already have it in GUT. Shouldnt that be enough?
Good enough for me £11.00 for .20p units. Especially the 2x+3x
Here's the problem with GUT:
Winkel and others never give rules for the system.
Instead, they say that there are multiple ways to play the crossings, where some will succeed while others will fail.
If they had beat the game using math as you wrote above, then it would be easy to explain the system with hard and fast rules.
GUT has yet to be presented as a proven long-term winning system. If it had, then some on this forum would have adopted it and played it for profit.
...............I'm still waiting for this to happen.........
Now, cue the excuses :
+ you just want everything handed to you
+ I win with the system consistently, but I don't want to prove it (???)
+ I've already presented enough of the system for everyone to figure it out (again....no one coming forward with proof of long-term wins)
Other "Winning" Strategies: :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:
Pattern Breaker
Pinwheel
Code 4
Target Betting
MatrixNumber of Long-term proven winners for all of the systems above : 00
The law
Have you tracked Gut free hand.
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 10, 01:31 PM 2015
The law
Have you tracked Gut free hand.
No.......nor have I tested Pattern Breaker, or learned Kimo Li's Pinwheels.
Again, where are the success stories? :question:
Do memebers find the tracking of Gut the problem.
As i see it, if you keep a picture of Winkels graph in your Mind,okay its there but you cant hold it. Now the game starts,so whats due, a 1X so the graph in your mind is 36 - 0X's, 1 - 1X opposite ends of the graph.
Okay the 10th spin on sheet just posted 28 - 0x, 8 - 1x, 1 - >1 and 1 - 2x. so in this mental graph the 0x's are dropping and the others are going up, eventually to cross.
Now Winkel to me gave you a clue for the trot with the 37 spin cycle, he broke it in to three parts,the 13, 25 and 37th spins with there avg. Now this is where you can have a bet if your like me, prior to the crossing which you should be seeing in your mental graph.
Now average is Math,so do you ignore it, no, you give it respect, at the 13th spin it could read 26-9-2 but its 27-7-3-3 so the 1x's are repeating.
Now you have 12 spins to come at the 25th it could be 18/19-14/15-03/05, so the trot could get 7/8 0x's, so watch how they fall, if you get 5 0x's on the trot and still 7 spins to go,aren't we expecting the 1X's and >1 to hit, not neccessarilly the >1, to me they seem to show more after the 19/20th spin. Like today it came on the 30th spin.
Any more or to hard to see
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 10, 02:22 PM 2015
Do memebers find the tracking of Gut the problem.
As i see it, if you keep a picture of Winkels graph in your Mind,okay its there but you cant hold it. Now the game starts,so whats due, a 1X so the graph in your mind is 36 - 0X's, 1 - 1X opposite ends of the graph.
Okay the 10th spin on sheet just posted 28 - 0x, 8 - 1x, 1 - >1 and 1 - 2x. so in this mental graph the 0x's are dropping and the others are going up, eventually to cross.
Now Winkel to me gave you a clue for the trot with the 37 spin cycle, he broke it in to three parts,the 13, 25 and 37th spins with there avg. Now this is where you can have a bet if your like me, prior to the crossing which you should be seeing in your mental graph.
Now average is Math,so do you ignore it, no, you give it respect, at the 13th spin it could read 26-9-2 but its 27-7-3-3 so the 1x's are repeating.
Now you have 12 spins to come at the 25th it could be 18/19-14/15-03/05, so the trot could get 7/8 0x's, so watch how they fall, if you get 5 0x's on the trot and still 7 spins to go,aren't we expecting the 1X's and >1 to hit, not neccessarilly the >1, to me they seem to show more after the 19/20th spin. Like today it came on the 30th spin.
Any more or to hard to see
So are you winning with this strategy? :question:
yes, but theres a but, whilst playing gut i'm looking for other bets and this is where i get in trouble.
Gut usually makes a really bad loss not so bad as i get some of the lost units back. Time after time i say just play Gut, but grasroots comes up, so i give it a try most times its behaving, but yesterday no, hit 1,3,2- 1,3,2.
Also i play 99% of the time on wait for it RNG
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 01:28 PM 2015
Here's the problem with GUT:
Winkel and others never give rules for the system.
That´s simply a lie! there are thousands of posts explaining it again and again. TwoCatSam made videos to explain the game in full extend.
Instead, they say that there are multiple ways to play the crossings, where some will succeed while others will fail.
If you don´t understand the strategy (because you didn´t even read it) you won´t understand the sense behind the sentence
If they had beat the game using math as you wrote above, then it would be easy to explain the system with hard and fast rules.
Thats already done! A lie of you again.
GUT has yet to be presented as a proven long-term winning system. If it had, then some on this forum would have adopted it and played it for profit.
Why "has it to be proofed"? How could it be done? What would you accept as a proof?
And be sure: Many adopted it and play it, but they don´t talk about it, due to trolls like you!
This strategy is discussed all over the world in many many forums. I don´t wait for people like you to proof it.
...............I'm still waiting for this to happen.........
Keep on waiting! Don´t get bored!
Now, cue the excuses :
+ you just want everything handed to you Or: Just read it. It cna´t be explained more than it is done.
+ I win with the system consistently, but I don't want to prove it (???) A winner doesn´t have to proof!
+ I've already presented enough of the system for everyone to figure it out The first sentence of yours with no lie or attack! My respect!(again....no one coming forward with proof of long-term wins)
If you don´t like, just don´t read posts about it. And please shut up and wait for whatever you are awaiting.
I was just going to say twocat has a long youtube video
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 10, 02:43 PM 2015
yes, but theres a but, whilst playing gut i'm looking for other bets and this is where i get in trouble.
Gut usually makes a really bad loss not so bad as i get some of the lost units back. Time after time i say just play Gut, but grasroots comes up, so i give it a try most times its behaving, but yesterday no, hit 1,3,2- 1,3,2.
Also i play 99% of the time on wait for it RNG
Thanks for the info.....much appreciated!
If you can beat RNG long-term, I think the forum would be thrilled to hear the details.
Again, I would love to see a system that beat's the wheel or RNG, but I have yet to see any proof. :question:
Good luck to you! :thumbsup:
Thelaw go watch twocats video
If you can understand the southern draw youll be fine!
I cant wait for him to come back.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 03:10 PM 2015
Thelaw go watch twocats video
If you can understand the southern draw youll be fine!
I cant wait for him to come back.
Come back? Where did he go? :question:
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 03:12 PM 2015
Come back? Where did he go? :question:
He taking a break
Winkel
Before i read the replies and there are some, i thought no and poured scorn on it. How wrong i was.
Once i started to read about Gut i could see how close i was with KTF. I could see by the 37 spin cycle avg in some post how this can help in the trot,Like Azim and yourself said practice and practice more.
Theres one member truck truck something like that, who i thought was doing a great job of giving examples.
The one thing with GUT is its true, just sit there with the blinkers on watching the trot, if you dont trust your reading of the trot,just wait for the crossing, we all know 19/18 not to bother with. All i can say is when you get to the crossing you have a choice, its not written in stone, you could bet against the crossing,which i do, but not all crossing will cross so there it is,The choice is yours
link:://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koY33YFcgBA (link:://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koY33YFcgBA)
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=10509.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=10509.0)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 03:15 PM 2015
He taking a break
Ok. So now I'm officially confused.... :ooh:
Are you saying that he explains how to use GUT effectively in the video?
....and if so, why are you pursuing the grassroots strategy if a winning method already exists? :question:
What am I missing here?
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 03:18 PM 2015
Ok. So now I'm officially confused.... :ooh:
Are you saying that he explains how to use GUT effectively in the video?
....and if so, why are you pursuing the grassroots strategy if a winning method already exists? :question:
What am I missing here?
I never tried to understand gut
I believe in simplicity.
But i trust the members playing it so i would say it works. I linked to the video above
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 03:17 PM 2015
link:://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koY33YFcgBA (link:://m.youtube.com/watch?v=koY33YFcgBA)
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=10509.0 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=10509.0)
Video starts with bank: $311............and ends with $272..............am I being punked??? :question:
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 03:24 PM 2015
Video starts with bank: $311............and ends with $272..............am I being punked??? :question:
Get away! You won´t get here, what you are looking for. Don´t disturb the topics of other members. :girl_to:
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 03:24 PM 2015
Video starts with bank: $311............and ends with $272..............am I being punked??? :question:
If you not going to watch the video and understand what he is teaching.
Doesn't matter what the balance is .
Here is gut played by a bot. The bot was not tuned to follow the rules to the dot.
Example if you have 9 numbers you play 4 spins. If you have 3 numbers you play 12 spins and 1 number you play 36 spins.
Hence i stopped the bot and played manually to show that Gut can predict upto 1 number. It does win on a long run.
Short of what, Winkel, has said there are no rule changes.
here is a winning bot for you Just playing gut.
link:://1drv.ms/1Y69p4c (link:://1drv.ms/1Y69p4c)
BTW. I am going to say this. I had a conversation with one of the members you all don't like.
His reasoning for gambling is, Win as much as you want. Keep the winning that you want. The rest donate it to CHARITY. Well, It made sense to me in a way. Hence I have decided not to bother with bot's and play live at the casino.
I have been lucky enough to win with this plus a few other methods. Gut has to be the basic understanding of how roulette numbers are falling.
Anyways GOOD LUCK to you all.
ON a second note.. Grasshopper 123.. Will work excellent on an american wheel.
Why you ask, When you play dozen 1 and dozen 3 together the second dozen numbers plus the 2 zeros have one gap maximum around the wheel.
Enjoy happy hunting and Merry Christmas and happy new year to you all.
I havent looked too much into it
But with pen and paper can you play on airball?
To play in real world with no bot and no rng how long is a session?
Rich been in casino with the paper tracker they didn't bat an eyelid. The only thing is people look over your shoulder out of curiosity, even when asked what doing they just shrug shoulders because its to much work for them, they just want to win thousands for nothing,wont happen.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 03:53 PM 2015
I havent looked too much into it
But with pen and paper can you play on airball?
To play in real world with no bot and no rng how long is a session?
Yes, you can use paper and pen with airball.
Airball is very easy to beat with GUT. TRUST me RG, I only play airball. I have 3 machines walking distance to each other.
Quote from: Azim on Dec 10, 03:51 PM 2015
Enjoy happy hunting and Merry Christmas and happy new year to you all.
Many answered questions of yours from professor should make understaning GUT better.
Oh I thought you wont come back :'(
Great you stopped to writte a line :)
All the best for incoming holidays!
Notto and azim
Seems i have work to do
I have over 10 airball machines 30 mins away. 3 are euro
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 10, 04:01 PM 2015
The only thing is people look over your shoulder out of curiosity, even when asked what doing they just shrug shoulders because its to much work for them, they just want to win thousands for nothing,wont happen.
This is the problem with most, they do not want to work, just get handed a solution so they can win and continue with thier lazy way of life.
GUT works, it just requires lots of practice. Huge amounts. Most people will not put in the time. Everyone should be thanking Winkel for providing this gem.
Quote from: button on Dec 10, 05:33 PM 2015
This is the problem with most, they do not want to work, just get handed a solution so they can win and continue with thier lazy way of life.
GUT works, it just requires lots of practice. Huge amounts. Most people will not put in the time. Everyone should be thanking Winkel for providing this gem.
Yes.....a system that works effectively to beat Roulette long-term...........
except for any proof whatsoever.....
So, other than any facts or evidence, it's a perfect system! :sad2:
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 05:49 PM 2015
Yes.....a system that works effectively to beat Roulette long-term...........except for any proof whatsoever.....
So, other than any facts or evidence, it's a perfect system! :sad2:
Have you read any of the threads about it? Have you tried it? If not why not? Are you waiting for someone to prove to you that it works before "wasting" your time?
Quote from: button on Dec 10, 05:57 PM 2015
Have you read any of the threads about it? Have you tried it? If not why not? Are you waiting for someone to prove to you that it works before "wasting" your time?
If you claim to have a working system, then the burden of proof is on you. If not, then why present it on a forum.......just keep it for yourself!!! :thumbsup:
I have done the same with any system that I tested on this or any other forum.
GUT can't be fully tested, as all of the rules are not presented................now why would that be???? :question:
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 06:03 PM 2015
GUT can't be fully tested, as all of the rules are not presented................now why would that be???? :question:
GUT has been fully tested, but then how would you know if you haven't read the threads? I assume you haven't read them, because if you had you would not be saying what you are saying. If you have read the threads and do not understand how GUT works you are either not smart enough to understand or not prepared to put in the work to get the expertise required to understand and make it work for you. Ignorance is no excuse for running down a system that you do not understand or even bother to try.
GUT works and is probably one of the best systems I have ever seen. The rules are few and not difficult to understand. They are fully explained in the threads, but it really does take a lot of practice to understand how to use and that puts people off. There are even trackers made by very generous members to help.
This is how I see you waiting for someone to hand you the perfect system.
(link:://i.imgur.com/WVCWQnc.png)
the forum needs more people with a slight sense of humor, and less name calling and more people looking to help....this should not be happening...and neither should of what happened in the grassroots thread...if people are testing and posting tests leave them alone...it scares new people away
the law you should have known and expected this type of response.....
instead of arguing and being petty lets discuss the method?
some good posters just came into the thread to what? add to the bullcrap? talk about roulette......instead
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 07:47 PM 2015
the forum needs more people with a slight sense of humor, and less name calling and more people looking to help....this should not be happening...and neither should of what happened in the grassroots thread...if people are testing and posting tests leave them alone...it scares new people away
the law you should have known and expected this type of response.....
Did I miss something RG? What is happening?
thelaw will always get a response like this because he is very negative if something is not explained to his level of understanding, it is that simple. The GUT thread(s), there are multiple, have explained everything very clearly for anyone with the inclination to read them and try to understand. More than one member has tried to explain how it works, not just it's creator Winkel. If that is not enough for someone to grasp they should just leave it and not say anything.
Personally I like MrJ's philosophy of take it or leave it.
Quote from: button on Dec 10, 08:05 PM 2015
Did I miss something RG? What is happening?
thelaw will always get a response like this because he is very negative if something is not explained to his level of understanding, it is that simple. The GUT thread(s), there are multiple, have explained everything very clearly for anyone with the inclination to read them and try to understand. More than one member has tried to explain how it works, not just it's creator Winkel. If that is not enough for someone to grasp they should just leave it and not say anything.
Personally I like MrJ's philosophy of take it or leave it.
believe me. i know how it feels to test the hell out of something and explain it and prove it works with examples and then have people come and be negative....
Quote from: button on Dec 10, 08:05 PM 2015
Did I miss something RG? What is happening?
thelaw will always get a response like this because he is very negative if something is not explained to his level of understanding, it is that simple. The GUT thread(s), there are multiple, have explained everything very clearly for anyone with the inclination to read them and try to understand. More than one member has tried to explain how it works, not just it's creator Winkel. If that is not enough for someone to grasp they should just leave it and not say anything.
Personally I like MrJ's philosophy of take it or leave it.
Absolutely false.
The multiple GUT threads have not described the rules of the betting method, hence why I posted a response to this in the first place. If there were specific hard and fast rules, I would be happy to test it to see if it works. But this is the problem; no clear rules, so you can't effectively test it. I read through the thread thoroughly, but stopped when I realized that there were pieces of the method missing.........where people should make "judgement calls". This is simple math, not a piece of conceptual art open to interpretation.
Buttons, with all due respect, you have now taken the same tact as everyone else claiming success with GUT............All Hat No Cattle.
You claim to have a working system, and yet you have shown zero proof, and instead choose to point the finger at others to "test for themselves".
Why come to a forum if we can't stand on the shoulders of giants...........that's how progress is made. I've done my homework on each and every thread that I started with complete transparency.......why is this so hard for everyone?
Can you imagine if Ignatus posted one of his graphs and then just part of his method.............we would lose respect instantly.
Roulette has a long and embarrassing history of people claiming to have beat the wheel; with great claims comes great responsibility........
the burden of proof.
Yet here we are again, with yet another member claiming to have a successful system.........and when challenged for proof...........they say "go find it yourself".
I started by responding to Notthammer's claim of the "math guys" beating the game.............which I have yet to see.
35+ pages and no proof :sad2:
You want to know why we don't have a working method yet.............because people are spending time on these wild goose chases!!! :yawn:
Look at the Grassroots thread as a perfect example of a complete method. Everyone was able to weigh in because it was articulated clearly, and then judge it properly. No "misinterpretations" or lack of understanding.
If the method is too complex, then break it up into pieces..........this ain't rocket science, just simple math. :thumbsup:
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 08:41 PM 2015
Look at the Grassroots thread as a perfect example of a complete method. Everyone was able to weigh in because it was articulated clearly, and then judge it properly. No "misinterpretations" or lack of understanding.
If the method is too complex, then break it up into pieces..........this ain't rocket science, just simple math. :thumbsup:
Not entirely true. Noone judged properly for the most part. Just members who assumed it cannot work. The negative judgements were from posters who probably did not test it. And they probably didn't know there is about 5 variations. My charts were ignored.
It went down an unfair path.
But instead of it getting me down i continue to post tests and my inbox gets filled with interest. Why? The new members are scared to post in fear of that same criticism so they PM instead. A damn shame.
If you disagree or think it cannot work say so and leave the thread. No harsh criticism. No extreme negativity. Just hey man good work on testing it but i dont think it works and leave it at that
I have 9 smites from that thread and all i did is what the forums made for. Tested. Posted charts. Posted proof from real spins. And people get angry and negative.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 08:50 PM 2015
Not entirely true. Noone judged properly for the most part. Just members who assumed it cannot work. The negative judgements were from posters who probably did not test it. And they probably didn't know there is about 5 variations. My charts were ignored.
It went down an unfair path.
But instead of it getting me down i continue to post tests and my inbox gets filled with interest. Why? The new members are scared to post in fear of that same criticism so they PM instead. A damn shame.
If you disagree or think it cannot work say so and leave the thread. No harsh criticism. No extreme negativity. Just hey man good work on testing it but i dont think it works and leave it at that
I have 9 smites from that thread and all i did is what the forums made for. Tested. Posted charts. Posted proof from real spins. And people get angry and negative.
RG,
I know that you disagreed with some of the comments on your grassroots thread, but the bet selection was explained clearly, as shown by many members understanding and tweaking your system. All threads will have criticism........my comments have nothing to do with you....just using your thread as an positive example.
My criticism of GUT is based on the continued claims from members of their personal success without proof.
I would have called you on the same behavior if you had claimed long-term success with the 1-2-3 strategy. Imagine if you never tested Grassroots again, and then just dropped in on other threads every once-in-a-while and claimed it was a successful system. You would be a fraud. But if you had ten thousand spins under your belt, then you could present charts, Wiesbaden reference info, casino receipts, etc. to show your proof. :thumbsup:
If we have a system, then we need to show it publicly in its entirety or not show it at all. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
What is the definition of proof that something works? I win a million dollars betting one way, is that proof? How do I prove it? Why should I prove it? What right do you have to demand proof something works? You have not paid any money for the information provided.
Again I really, really like MrJ's philosophy, take it or leave it. If I am not selling you anything and freely lay out a method for you to use and you don't want to try it or believe me when I say it works, too bad.
Winkel layed out a way to play, it works for me and many others. I am happy with that. I don't use it anymore, but not because it doesn't work.
Quote from: button on Dec 10, 09:32 PM 2015
What is the definition of proof that something works? I win a million dollars betting one way, is that proof? How do I prove it? Why should I prove it? What right do you have to demand proof something works? You have not paid any money for the information provided.
Again I really, really like MrJ's philosophy, take it or leave it. If I am not selling you anything and freely lay out a method for you to use and you don't want to try it or believe me when I say it works, too bad.
Winkel layed out a way to play, it works for me and many others. I am happy with that. I don't use it anymore, but not because it doesn't work.
Thanks for letting us know that you found a winning system! :)
Need anymore
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 01:28 PM 2015
Here's the problem with GUT:
Winkel and others never give rules for the system.
Instead, they say that there are multiple ways to play the crossings, where some will succeed while others will fail.
If they had beat the game using math as you wrote above, then it would be easy to explain the system with hard and fast rules.
GUT has yet to be presented as a proven long-term winning system. If it had, then some on this forum would have adopted it and played it for profit.
...............I'm still waiting for this to happen.........
Now, cue the excuses :
+ you just want everything handed to you
+ I win with the system consistently, but I don't want to prove it (???)
+ I've already presented enough of the system for everyone to figure it out (again....no one coming forward with proof of long-term wins)
Other "Winning" Strategies: :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:
Pattern Breaker
Pinwheel
Code 4
Target Betting
Matrix
Number of Long-term proven winners for all of the systems above : 00
Why don't I ask you a simple question, what have you read so far about GUT?
Have you done any testing your self. First post of the thread has links for you to read.
If you can't do that, GUT, honestly is beyond your intelligence.
I will repeat it to you, to become a doctor, you don't need someone to prove to you that the University is good. You have smart doctors who have come out of a 5th or 6th ranked universities.
Well bottom line, you cant sit at home register at a university(in this case Forum) expect to have your hand held(Read the thread and understand it).
On the other hand:
If you would have decided to play the 12 once-appearers what would have happened?:
31 13 12 12
25 12 13 12 loss -12
27 12 13 12 loss -12
17 11 14 12 loss -12 and now the difference is "2" so stopp playing and look for another "crossing-situation"
27 11 14 12
The above is reply 26 on VLS
Now 13-12-12 was asked by TCS.
Well heres my thinking the 13 0X's is the bet, but heres the but, 12-12 is a bet as well, so here you bet both 25 units on two different situations.
It looks like its a winner +11 units.
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 08:41 PM 2015
Absolutely false.
The multiple GUT threads have not described the rules of the betting method, hence why I posted a response to this in the first place. If there were specific hard and fast rules, I would be happy to test it to see if it works. But this is the problem; no clear rules, so you can't effectively test it. I read through the thread thoroughly, but stopped when I realized that there were pieces of the method missing.........where people should make "judgement calls". This is simple math, not a piece of conceptual art open to interpretation.
Here we have definitely a proof:
You know nothing about GUT.
There is a tool cold "Clinical Bet Advisor". You can download and run tests as many as you want.
The problem is: It tests "clinical" it doesn´t make decisions as man would do. To code it you would need kind of AI.
and more than 3 people told you its winning. What more do you need? How many people should testify? Give an answer! (or shut up with your lies.)
Can you win with GUT? Yes.
IsGUT hard to learn? Yes.
Can you make long term profit with GUT? Yes.
Correct me if I am wrong.....
GUT ( to me) seems to be like a compass or barometer to aid you to make improved bet selection
The key to winning is improving the bet selection
Everyone seens to want a hard and fast algorithm ....I think the idea of GUT is to put you in a position....when its time to bet.....of having an informed choice....which leads to an improved bet selection
I could be wrong.
Quote from: Turner on Dec 11, 06:02 AM 2015
Correct me if I am wrong.....
GUT ( to me) seems to be like a compass or barometer to aid you to make improved bet selection
The key to winning is improving the bet selection
Everyone seens to want a hard and fast algorithm ....I think the idea of GUT is to put you in a position....when its time to bet.....of having an informed choice....which leads to an improved bet selection
I could be wrong.
You are absolutely right.
thats why i call it a "strategy" not a "system"
Quote from: winkel on Dec 11, 06:08 AM 2015
You are absolutely right.
thats why i call it a "strategy" not a "system"
Ahhhh...thats good then
Perhaps what I said may help people understand if its for them or not and stop interupting the posts.
(Its almost AP....without being AP....if you get me)
Turner,
Very well said... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Turner on Dec 11, 06:25 AM 2015
Ahhhh...thats good then
Perhaps what I said may help people understand if its for them or not and stop interupting the posts.
(Its almost AP....without being AP....if you get me)
Couldnt agree more. Wish u said that in grassroots.....
So just to sum it all up:
+ GUT is a strategy not a system to help create a better situation where a player can make a more advantages bet selection
+ Not AP, but close to AP (not sure what this means......it either gives you an advantage or it doesn't)
+ Although many players claim to have used it successfully in the past, no member is currently using it to create a superior bet selection with long-term results (publicly at least)
+ There is no consensus on how to execute it practically to create a long-term advantage
+ On a Forum that's entirely dedicated to beating the game of Roulette, nobody, in 7 years, has bothered to show actual proof that GUT provides an effective advantage long-term, and instead have moved on to other systems and strategies that fail time and time again
This all started with my response to Nothammer's claim that the "math guys" had beat the game with GUT, to which I called BS. Great claims require great proof. When NH made that comment, nobody bothered to correct or clarify the statement, but then got their panties in a bunch when I said that there was no proof that it provided an advantage long-term.
When anyone is ready to show proof that GUT creates a statistical advantage long-term in actual play, I'm all ears.
Until then...........I'll leave you guys to it.
Thanks for the great debate! :)
What kind of proof are you looking for? Someone who has records of all their sessions? Someone who shares their personal info of bank of casino statements?
You say you want proof? Alot of people say it works... Even long term. Yet you want more proof...
Maybe you should just start reading all the info about GUT. Come back when you're done. If you still have questions at that moment we will discus them like normal people.
We all still play GUT and it works for us. It could work for you but you don't want to work for it. You want a system. Not a strategy.
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 11, 09:09 AM 2015
Until then...........I'll leave you guys to it.
With respect to Law, I would like to think he is a man of his word
I ran about 500 000 cycles of 37 spins and came up with the following:
(Number on left is number of unique numbers and next number is how many times a spin cycle had exactly that many unique numbers in the test)
37 spin cycle:
15 1
16 12
17 202
18 1417
19 6020
20 18309
21 41304
22 73951
23 98780
24 102814
25 80164
26 47276
27 20934
28 6706
29 1685
30 349
31 35
32 5
So 500,000 37 spin cycles produced 102,814 sets of 24 unique. Is it okay to say 20%.
If another set of 500,000 was done, will it be 20% again? Will it always be 20%
In GUT its said at spin 13 we could see 26-9-2, well i've been at spin 13 many times seeing 24-13-0, so would you not now bet the 1X's. Look how many times 15 unique appear.
from way back
Where are Forum's most experienced members? by thelaw.
I wont post in the mutual admiration society thread. Soggett is rereading GUT, good.
Gut is a fine stratergy for the chance to bet. Admittedly theres lots of advice on what to bet, when not to bet,etc,etc. But the biggest part to me is being able to read the trot.
So where does the trot start?
spin 1, the 1st one hit, there you have it,what do you get from this, a possible, more than 1hit (>1) or another one hit (1x).
So as the non hit (0x) hit, the trot is revealing its self.
Now to below
Wait for the crossing, does it say if 2 crossings dont bet? okay waiting for crossings seemed to be the stratergy,but didn't Winkel say theres more chances to bet, but that a higher level.
Shame he felt he could not reveal more,but like i said below, the chance is to bet both crossings, with the non hit winning.
With 25 non hit, i'd say we are at around the 37-40th spin, dont believe me have a look in Jackpot joy topic at the sheets posted, think of the trot, think of 15 non hit in 30 spins
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 11, 04:39 AM 2015
On the other hand:
If you would have decided to play the 12 once-appearers what would have happened?:
31 13 12 12
25 12 13 12 loss -12
27 12 13 12 loss -12
17 11 14 12 loss -12 and now the difference is "2" so stopp playing and look for another "crossing-situation"
27 11 14 12
The above is reply 26 on VLS
Now 13-12-12 was asked by TCS.
Well heres my thinking the 13 0X's is the bet, but heres the but, 12-12 is a bet as well, so here you bet both 25 units on two different situations.
It looks like its a winner +11 units.
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 04, 03:46 PM 2016
Where are Forum's most experienced members? by thelaw.
I wont post in the mutual admiration society thread. Soggett is rereading GUT, good.
Gut is a fine stratergy for the chance to bet. Admittedly theres lots of advice on what to bet, when not to bet,etc,etc. But the biggest part to me is being able to read the trot.
So where does the trot start?
spin 1, the 1st one hit, there you have it,what do you get from this, a possible, more than 1hit (>1) or another one hit (1x).
So as the non hit (0x) hit, the trot is revealing its self.
Now to below
Wait for the crossing, does it say if 2 crossings dont bet? okay waiting for crossings seemed to be the stratergy,but didn't Winkel say theres more chances to bet, but that a higher level.
Shame he felt he could not reveal more,but like i said below, the chance is to bet both crossings, with the non hit winning.
With 25 non hit, i'd say we are at around the 37-40th spin, dont believe me have a look in Jackpot joy topic at the sheets posted, think of the trot, think of 15 non hit in 30 spins
.......but didn't you have a pretty sizable losing session on the Jackpot Joy thread using GUT? :question:
I dont use GUT on KTF.
KTF is about just betting non hits, the trot knowledge comes from learning GUT, using average.
The biggest help is 15 non hit in 30 spins. Everybody will have learnt their own way for seeing the trot.
When KTF lost it was over 1200 units up,it ran out of spins, but even if you finished where the spins ran out you'd still be +600 units.
Where i'm posting now is still using Jackpot 247.com spins and has not lost sinse that lost, its only posting 1 game a day.
I think the part you miss in KTF is the taking part of winning 50/60 units, theres been plenty of times i've explained why i'd stop and take less, one example is a fast trot.
Take today there was enough spins to start a second game, if i was playing on Ghosts machine of death, RNG i'd collect 60 spins for records leave the shop and start a new game.
So look at the second game,i would stop at 5th bet, thats 14th non hit +50, why stop, theres been only 1 repeat so i'd expect to see repeats come. This is a fast game 19 non hits in 22 spins, think that would be classed a fast trot.
If you care to track the 82 spins and mark off the non hit you will see theres only 1 non hit left #29
After skimming through this briefly - it looks almost like what I was doing and posting about in 2004.
Anyone is free to look up the post on GG and evaluate.
As said in another thread - most everyone is running in circles and looping back to what's been posted (as a 'new idea') a long long time ago...
Just my 2 cents (retail value of 3 cents)
Quote from: TurboGenius on Feb 04, 06:18 PM 2016
After skimming through this briefly - it looks almost like what I was doing and posting about in 2004.
Anyone is free to look up the post on GG and evaluate.
As said in another thread - most everyone is running in circles and looping back to what's been posted (as a 'new idea') a long long time ago...
Just my 2 cents (retail value of 3 cents)
So are you saying Winkel tweeked what you where doing in 2004,to claim GUT as his own.
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 04, 07:05 PM 2016
So are you saying Winkel tweeked what you where doing in 2004,to claim GUT as his own.
I cant answer for him but I will say this......quite a few people (myself included) will come up with a method NOT KNOWING one similar has been published 20 years prior. I dont think its copying if you dont know about it. I have at least 4 different versions of "complete a street" (constantly tweaking it in order to improve it) and it was pointed out to me years ago (with link provided) that I copied it.
Never knew about it, never read about it prior.
Ken
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 04, 07:05 PM 2016
So are you saying Winkel tweeked what you where doing in 2004,to claim GUT as his own.
I'm not saying anything lol - Just making the point that given enough time, the same ideas come up and are worked on and tested/tweaked/forgotten.
12 years later someone else has the same idea and the process begins anew.
That's not how we move towards beating this game though, it's simply going in slow circles.
If the math says that 2 + 2 = 4 then over enough time you can make the most complex
equation that says the same thing. It's easier to just accept that the answer is 4 no matter how
you come to it and work on the next math problem.
"going in slow circles" >> Perfect.
Ken
stainless steel
Quote from: TurboGenius on Feb 04, 06:18 PM 2016
After skimming through this briefly - it looks almost like what I was doing and posting about in 2004.
Anyone is free to look up the post on GG and evaluate.
As said in another thread - most everyone is running in circles and looping back to what's been posted (as a 'new idea') a long long time ago...
Just my 2 cents (retail value of 3 cents)
I can appreciate the above as we are human, all have a brain, obviously some better than others. So i guess over time ideas will enter your/my head and we think yes, this is it, so back in 2004 i guess it could look like something someone might have been working on, even you
If somewhere would exist Database of systems, with final thoughts about it (with updated comments from members), we could just continue testing the ones that show potential.
In a perfect world we could make it...
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 04, 03:46 PM 2016
Where are Forum's most experienced members? by thelaw.
I wont post in the mutual admiration society thread. Soggett is rereading GUT, good.
Gut is a fine stratergy for the chance to bet. Admittedly theres lots of advice on what to bet, when not to bet,etc,etc. But the biggest part to me is being able to read the trot.
So where does the trot start?
spin 1, the 1st one hit, there you have it,what do you get from this, a possible, more than 1hit (>1) or another one hit (1x).
So as the non hit (0x) hit, the trot is revealing its self.
Now to below
Wait for the crossing, does it say if 2 crossings dont bet? okay waiting for crossings seemed to be the stratergy,but didn't Winkel say theres more chances to bet, but that a higher level.
Shame he felt he could not reveal more,but like i said below, the chance is to bet both crossings, with the non hit winning.
With 25 non hit, i'd say we are at around the 37-40th spin, dont believe me have a look in Jackpot joy topic at the sheets posted, think of the trot, think of 15 non hit in 30 spins
thank you for this
I see the thread has been revisited (maybe because of what I said in other thread) so I would like to post a few words.
I have read the GUT thread for the fourth time now.
The 80 page strategy I can't remember when I first read it but I did not get it at all. Some time passed, I gained new knowledge and said to myself maybe try again - I got bits and pieces but still couldn't understand. Third time I read it when Azim pointed it out to me over e-mail and I still could not get my head around it. I watched the videos every time too.
The other day I was brainstorming and remembered the GUT and said what the hell lets give it a shot. I read all 80 pages on the main topic, I then read 24 pages of test results that winkel posted. I watched TCS videos on youtube (the 2 hour one and the 40 minute one). Then I read this topic. And this time something clicked.
What I think did the trick (maybe someone else finds this interesting) is two things;
1. I copied what ever I thought was important from what winkel wrote like rules, examples , etc, into a txt file so I can read the it whenever I need to, and maybe more important
2. I took a piece of paper with squares (like the one we used in school for math or such) and I draw everything from a test winkel made. I took a random 50 spins he tested and draw the lines "0", "1", ">1"... This is when it clicked for me but that is because I am more of a visual guy, I learn better when I see it for myself. And when I could see the crossings, the way the lines go up, down, it all made sense.
I will add that winkel made a few mistakes, mentioned some things then not mention them again. Maybe because he was mad at people, I dont know.
The point I wanted to make, I can now chart all that I need, I have rules that I need to memorize, and I need to test, practice. When I get the hang of it I will do a large test and post my results here.
The first 50 spins I actually charted just today and it was a very slow trot. I am happy that I can see and understand that it is slow. Somehow it makes sense to me. That doesn't mean it will work for me, doesn't mean I will make millions, I just wanted to show what I said in the other thread - that my thinking now is different than before and I can see things I didn't see before. With age and comes knowledge, with knowledge comes wisdom (or something like that ^-^)
Quote from: winkel on May 28, 01:12 PM 2015
Hi nottop,
thats what I´ve always told: watch the crossings and watch what ist going on. If a crossing comes up and you don´t trust it, the next idea is to bet the other chance.
I never had a chance to explain this to this point, because of too many enemies. But as you found by yourself: This ist the chance to bet nearly every spin, if you can detect, what is going on.
BUT: You have to be aware: There is no automatism in it. You can be wrong, Your ability to make the right decisions might be missing. So learn to stop the game. Learn to jump to another sequence and so on.
br
winkel
Here is what he agreed. I dare any math guy on the forum to come out and argue this point.
People think they are smarter than others because they play with high value chips.
Quote from: Azim on Jan 14, 09:25 AM 2014
Winkel,
Please don't take me wrong. You know I am on your side.
Now, hear me out why I made that conclusion. I know, I haven't proved it. Because I don't know the basics.
Playing with number's if a challenge for me.
If I was using 3 SD trackers on this number's. I will use your case 111 Tracker's.
You do agree every tracker will have a different result set?
The trot 0 is sleeper's if I was able to track 111 tracker's without difficulty.
Now taking 111 different result set from all 111 tracker's. Using unions, intersection and difference.( I have used difference so everyone understands its actually called complement)
One can reduce the number's to bet on?
Why can't I do that, have you looked at that?
Because of some non-educated or math guys who think they know it all on the forum, a lot of good stuff was left out.
Once again. Read between the lines I have posted in the past and try and understand what was been said.
I have said this over and over. To become a doctor you just can't read books. You have to do some experiments on animals as well.
Quote from: Azim on Feb 05, 10:21 AM 2016
Because of some non-educated or math guys who think they know it all on the forum, a lot of good stuff was left out.
They destroy the hobby for hobbyists so people leave........
Quote from: soggett on Feb 05, 09:37 AM 2016
thank you for this
I see the thread has been revisited (maybe because of what I said in other thread) so I would like to post a few words.
I have read the GUT thread for the fourth time now.
The 80 page strategy I can't remember when I first read it but I did not get it at all. Some time passed, I gained new knowledge and said to myself maybe try again - I got bits and pieces but still couldn't understand. Third time I read it when Azim pointed it out to me over e-mail and I still could not get my head around it. I watched the videos every time too.
The other day I was brainstorming and remembered the GUT and said what the hell lets give it a shot. I read all 80 pages on the main topic, I then read 24 pages of test results that winkel posted. I watched TCS videos on youtube (the 2 hour one and the 40 minute one). Then I read this topic. And this time something clicked.
What I think did the trick (maybe someone else finds this interesting) is two things;
1. I copied what ever I thought was important from what winkel wrote like rules, examples , etc, into a txt file so I can read the it whenever I need to, and maybe more important
2. I took a piece of paper with squares (like the one we used in school for math or such) and I draw everything from a test winkel made. I took a random 50 spins he tested and draw the lines "0", "1", ">1"... This is when it clicked for me but that is because I am more of a visual guy, I learn better when I see it for myself. And when I could see the crossings, the way the lines go up, down, it all made sense.
I will add that winkel made a few mistakes, mentioned some things then not mention them again. Maybe because he was mad at people, I dont know.
The point I wanted to make, I can now chart all that I need, I have rules that I need to memorize, and I need to test, practice. When I get the hang of it I will do a large test and post my results here.
The first 50 spins I actually charted just today and it was a very slow trot. I am happy that I can see and understand that it is slow. Somehow it makes sense to me. That doesn't mean it will work for me, doesn't mean I will make millions, I just wanted to show what I said in the other thread - that my thinking now is different than before and I can see things I didn't see before. With age and comes knowledge, with knowledge comes wisdom (or something like that ^-^)
Glad Azim put that quote up from may 28th
Like you i got the graph paper out and drew the spins as they game, watching 0x,1x and >1.
Soggett if you look back at some old replies you will see to the left of the paper tracker KTF this shows how the non hit, hit, then the repeats,i'd compare both sets of figures as the game unfolds, which is the trot. I dont think with the computer tracker you get the feel of the trot,it just says theres the crossing,but you need to know what the 0x's and 1x's plus the >1's are doing.
TO STEVE,
Quote
Anyways, I have proved to someone on this forum who was over on Wednesday last week, how easy it was for me to make 320 units with mild progression and no tracking with paper and pen.
Unless you have other data to back it up, results in a weekend is realistically not proof of anything. I know of many systems that have won over 20,000 or more spins, but the system actually loses if you repeat the test. I'm not saying your system is good or bad - just that short term tests dont tell much.
I don't have to prove any thing with tests.
I have challenged anyone from anywhere, come over you pick the table and time we play. It's a live demo at the casino and not in a room with video's or any dealer.
I am using real money to prove it that I can do it day in day out anytime I want.
You can call it being LUCKY.
HOW DOES A PERSON BE SO LUCKY DAY IN DAY OUT?
So there. No need for any hidden tools.
Azim, simply if something works for you, keep doing it. That's what I do.
Quote from: Azim on Feb 07, 07:41 PM 2016
TO STEVE,
Quote
Anyways, I have proved to someone on this forum who was over on Wednesday last week, how easy it was for me to make 320 units with mild progression and no tracking with paper and pen.
Unless you have other data to back it up, results in a weekend is realistically not proof of anything. I know of many systems that have won over 20,000 or more spins, but the system actually loses if you repeat the test. I'm not saying your system is good or bad - just that short term tests dont tell much.
I don't have to prove any thing with tests.
I have challenged anyone from anywhere, come over you pick the table and time we play. It's a live demo at the casino and not in a room with video's or any dealer.
I am using real money to prove it that I can do it day in day out anytime I want.
You can call it being LUCKY.
HOW DOES A PERSON BE SO LUCKY DAY IN DAY OUT?
So there. No need for any hidden tools.
What is your method?
-Celtic
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:21 PM 2016
What is your method?
-Celtic
Forget the dumb question.
I figured it out.
Must have had a brain fart when I asked.
-Celtic
Bit more practice
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 09, 04:51 PM 2016
Bit more practice
Thanks again for the data.
-Celtic
@all
I've just started to read Winkel's GUT on VLS
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0.
I'm surprised that so many Winkel's posts are deleted.
Does anybody have some additional or completed material?
Do somebody also have access to Winkel's german posts?
Thanks
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 10, 09:32 AM 2016
@all
I've just started to read Winkel's GUT on VLS
link:://:.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=2128.0.
I'm surprised that so many Winkel's posts are deleted.
Does anybody have some additional or completed material?
Do somebody also have access to Winkel's german posts?
Thanks
I had the same problem when I started studying GUT about two months ago and I never received any answers to several enquiries about this.
I would say that you should also check out the Jackpot Joy, Winkels Holy Grail, Are There Really Only 37 Spins threads on this forum.
Also, looking at the posts section of the members profiles of Nottophammer, Winkel, and Two Cat Sam, and Azim will also provide a lot of information for you.
These may lead you to other threads regarding GUT.
I wish you Good Luck on your endeavour.
It is a very intense study but it does pay off if you follow it through.
-Celtic
Thanks Celtic, I also tried Google cache, Web archive and stuff, but with not much success.
Stupid people couldn't recognize value that Winkel decided to share with community.
Can't say that I'm surprised with that kind of attitude!
Has anyone ever W O N with Winkel ?.
Quote from: Tamino on Mar 10, 11:56 AM 2016
Has anyone ever W O N with Winkel ?.
Yes big time but not since yesterday :wink:
-Celtic
Celtic
Where is YOUR certified proof? If it exists>
Quote from: Tamino on Mar 10, 01:16 PM 2016
Celtic
Where is YOUR certified proof? If it exists>
I know it's addressed to Celtic, however, whats your version of certified proof?
$$ In GUT we trust $$
Platonic, for now!
Quote from: Tamino on Mar 10, 01:16 PM 2016
Celtic
Where is YOUR certified proof? If it exists>
-Tamino
I was not aware that I had to prove anything to you and you're statement "If it exists>" is just plain insulting.
For future reference do not bother posting to anything I have said as I will not be answering any of your childish statements like this.
If you have noting to contribute leave me alone I am not interested in your head games.
-Celtic
I dont think any method can be proofed. But what should be enough is, if you understand whats put forward and you use it as stated and you make more than you lose, then theres your proof.
What i dont get is why people cant use GUT, it is the best stratergy i've come across, so simple just 0X's,1X's and >1X's. Dare i say it, the Trot.
The trot is the part that will make you or break you.
Winkels way, whats a better way than the crossing, like the man says its your decision,that decision comes from understanding the TROT.
@Celtic,
Don't get upset. People have the right to ask. However, lets first find out and understand the term "certified proof" from who is asking?
Blind faith ? A forum rule?
Quote from: Tamino on Mar 10, 06:20 PM 2016
Blind faith ? A forum rule?
Whats your version of "certified proof"? If you don't have any than I agree with Celtic it was stupid to ask the question.
num non-hit 1X >1 2X >2 3X >3 4X
07 36 1
21 35 2
13 34 3
22 33 4
08 32 5
17 31 6
24 30 7
30 29 8
26 28 9
04 27 10
20 26 11
01 25 12
Can Gut show a favourable time to go for a repeat (WTF)
12 spins done and Winkel gave you some info at 13th spin, could see 26-9-2-2, as you can see, its 25-12-0-0, so whats the decision? Do you remember 12 unique?
num non-hit 1X >1 2X >2 3X
03 24 13
13 non-hit no repeat, time to go for the repeat
Quote from: Azim on Mar 10, 02:49 PM 2016
I know it's addressed to Celtic, however, whats your version of certified proof?
I have argued this many times over. Proof means what? Because a person said they are up 20K? Thats not proof. Their forum friend also says...I was with him and saw the entire roulette play for the day. Thats not proof either. You show your bank statement (lol)....also not proof. Who says your balance is that high because of roulette?
You show a pic of all your high value chips. Thats not proof either. Are they ALL yours? Maybe you just bought in? Maybe you won a ton of those chips at a different game, not roulette? Perhaps you took some of those chips home from a previous visit? I can go on and on.....
Ken
Well we've made it to 13 spins and no repeat.
Next bit of info is at 25th spin, could see 18/19-14/15-03/05, so theres 12 spins to come, for the >1x to get to 03/05 you have to have the 1x hit, the >1x are at zero.
Average for 0x in spins 11-20 is 7, would give a score of 7+2, we've had 3 spins, fast trot.
Exactly Ken. So when people ask what's the proof,in my opinion its a dumb question.
In one way, I agree with Steve, if a system has sound rules, you can run it against a million spins.
However, when you have to make a decision, it's hard for some to program different situation to pass a million spins.
Having said that, doesn't mean it's not doable. It took me around 8-9 months to get the GUT bot to par. Does that mean I want to part with it, to prove to someone that it can pass a 1m spin.
Especially, if I have to disclose the thinking behind it. Is it worth doing that for 100K?(I could make more with it over a year). That's one of the reasons, I don't part with my bot's. People get greedy and start to run it 24/7. Just like what I did with KTF.
num non-hit 1x >1x 2x >2 3x
17 24 12 1 1
Theres your repeat.
So for some BR 1 opens, now from previous game play the 2x's become 3x more often after the 20th spin, no problem with that as its now watch mode.
How does a number know when it's due to hit, and when it's due to sleep?
If the number of pockets on the wheel remain the same from one spin to the next, then what's the purpose of a "crossing"?
What is the force that reaches forward from the past and into the future that makes a number more likely to hit? According to the present understanding of physics, there are four fundamental interactions or forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction. Or is it something more mysterious...like magic?
General
It is not ,magic ..... it is VOODOO.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 04:52 PM 2016
How does a number know when it's due to hit, and when it's due to sleep?
If the number of pockets on the wheel remain the same from one spin to the next, then what's the purpose of a "crossing"?
What is the force that reaches forward from the past and into the future that makes a number more likely to hit? According to the present understanding of physics, there are four fundamental interactions or forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction. Or is it something more mysterious...like magic?
Why do I want to waste my time on you, go learn the game for yourself.
I have told others and telling you too, go PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.. make the game second nature to you and you will have your answer.
Quote from: Tamino on Mar 28, 04:57 PM 2016
General
It is not ,magic ..... it is VOODOO.
Here we go more people joining the circus...
num non-hit 1x >1x 2x >2 3x
15 23 13 1 1
35 22 14 1 1
05 21 15 1 1 7 spins, 6 non-hit and 1 repeat, so now its time to go for the 1x's i'd leave the 1, 2x out
09 20 16 1 1
05 20 15 2 2 win, watch again
15 20 14 3 3 There 7+2
Now 3 BR's open, 20 spins done.
Now for the general, we're playing a game of chance, so why should math help any more than experiance. Its a simple game of 0x's then 1x's and then >1x's.
In spins 21-30 if it runs to average, then with 7 already come,5 more 0X's could show, 50/50, so heres where the 1x and >1x will show. Its simple for a few, but through those dark glasses it looks complicated, when four fundamental interactions or forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, the weak interaction, and the strong interaction, have to be taken in as well
Azim
I do NOT will ever take you seriously. Just another forum show off looking for an audience.
Quote from: Tamino on Mar 28, 05:10 PM 2016
Azim
I do NOT will ever take you seriously. Just another forum show off looking for an audience.
Good for you I am glad.
Num non-hit 1x >1x 2x >2 3x 20 0x left means 17 have repeated,of which 14 are 1x and 3 are >1x
This is where we leave GUT, but not totally we have to remember the info of 25th
spin 18/19-14/15-03/05, the >1x at 13th spin where zero and after 7 spins are
at 3, so to get to 5, the 1x need to hit, we'll chance leaving the 3- 2x's off
the bet making it cheaper for those who say no to large numbers, so we'll bet
14-1x's
10 19 15 3 3 L
11 18 16 3 3 L
12 17 17 3 3 L Well look a complete street and a crossing to think about, 3 non-hit of an average 5, so stick
to the bet like Celtic does
12 17 16 4 4 L 4 BR's open, crossing failed, so did we.
03 17 15 5 5 w -30
34 16 16 5 5 L
15 16 15 5 4 1 1 w Br 3 closes, our 13-1x's win.
26 16 14 6 5 1 1 w
GUT can help with your decision making. Keeping up todate records of average of non-hit, will help in the simple game of 0x's, 1x's and >1x's
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 28, 05:58 PM 2016
.....................................
GUT can help with your decision making. Keeping up todate records of average of non-hit, will help in the simple game of 0x's, 1x's and >1x's
-Notto
If only the masses would listen :lol:
You have to be one of the most patient people on the forum that still posts.
ALL of your efforts are appreciated.
-Celtic
Guys,
You shouldn't have to test this to know that it won't work.
thanks notto
So heres the map for repeats.
Big thanks to winkel for the 13th,25th and 37th info, the 1x got the >1 to the 37th, repeats came just like 15 in 30 shows it can.
General or whoever take those aviators off, you might learn something
Unlike most, I'm not here to learn how to win. And contrary to popular believe, I'm not here to tell you that you're system will fail... even when I know for a fact that it will.
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 28, 06:53 PM 2016
General or whoever take those aviators off, you might learn something
you are doing really really well being the cool cat ignoring negativity
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 28, 06:53 PM 2016
So heres the map for repeats.
Big thanks to winkel for the 13th,25th and 37th info, the 1x got the >1 to the 37th, repeats came just like 15 in 30 shows it can.
General or whoever take those aviators off, you might learn something
I learned that you could make $129 in 12 spins betting for repeats starting at spin #19 with these numbers :twisted:
-Celtic
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 06:57 PM 2016
Unlike most, I'm not here to learn how to win. And contrary to popular believe, I'm not here to tell you that you're system will fail... even when I know for a fact that it will.
So, out of curiosity, why exactly are you here?
QuoteSo, out of curiosity, why exactly are you here?
Intel on the locations of certain playing opportunities within certain cities. That's all. Other than that, I'm just posting because I'm a bit bored at times.
Quote from: The General on Mar 28, 08:52 PM 2016
Intel on the locations of certain playing opportunities within certain cities. That's all. Other than that, I'm just posting because I'm a bit bored at times.
Thank you for the reply.
What cities are you interested in?
Thanks Notto, you are fighting this right way.
That's where Winkel lost it - in dialogs with the Provocateurs...
iboba
March 21, 2009, 6:22am Report to Moderator
Guest User
OK mate about Winkels G.U.T.,
I have study it,tested it,for months,and come to this;It is not H.G.with all respect to the author.It would need a new thread to elaborate my claims,but the time will show.iboba
THIS IS TOO CONFUSED.MIND BOGGLING.........Agree with you.,mate
Logged
E-mail Reply: 6 - 3
Well really, how can someone claim to know it all, when they don't know what's it all about?
Question for anyone out there.
If this was a losing , why go through the trouble of doing this?
link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!347&authkey=!AHr2ffSb431XEm0&ithint=video%2cavi
This thread seems interesting, can you please inform me og which the holy grail you are speaking?
With your published results you look to be doing very well and I would be interested in this 'holy grail'
Here's a sheet with the #'s already for you to see if you can read the trot. Cover the line or you'll be cheating, if you can see the next spin, you'll only be fooling yourselves
Could not attach the sheet, the numbers used in winkels GUT blog.
So i wont bore you with more questions, i think the sheet is a good example of the trot, even KTF average had it right for spin 40
Anybody starting out on GUT do not give up on it
Quote from: nottophammer on Aug 13, 12:08 PM 2016Anybody starting out on GUT do not give up on it
Well think of your younger days, when you were learning to walk.
If you had given up, what would have been the result?
All I have said about this in the past is PRACTICE, PRACTICE and more PRACTICE.
There is no rocket science. It's all your brain and you. Your thinking and remembering things is all that's needed.
Quote from: Azim on Aug 13, 06:37 PM 2016There is no rocket science. It's all your brain and you. Your thinking and remembering things is all that's needed.
Exactly, Knowledge gained from practice
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Aug 22, 07:01 AM 2016There you moderate your own posts and can delete garbage like this
deleted
Blue Angel is on "moderated" for today ...you can still post but it has to be approved
Get out of bed on the right side tomorrow :thumbsup:
Her stuff is no better than that goofy GUT....sorry guys.
Ken
But do you understand GUT Ken?
In 37 spin cycles they should look to the >1x after spin 20 and after spin 40 the >2x
Okay using the paper tracker for GUT, but to see what >1x to bet, after 20th spin, so we can see saved a few units, even if there where a couple gone to 3x, would not hurt.
So the 1st zero cost 6 units as cheap spinning, but made £13.00 for .25p units in ladbrokes FOBT.
Corals
Again cheap spinning till 20th spin. make £10.75 under 25minutes for .25p units.
Now ask yourselves with the 1st 16 spins no repeat would you just bet the >1x ? after spin 20, but the bet after 20th for a 2x to go to 3x worked.
You'd win with the crossings in both shops.
Goofy i'll let you decide
Hi there experts, if someone can analyze for me show me where is my fault. I lost this session. Plz dont say start over. These are very normal common number for vegas star rng. U ll get worst if u start over. I am posting the numbers here. If you decide not to bet any crossing plz explain why you avoid. Thanks in advance.
35
7
19
24
0
10
17
18
5
10
25
16
7
36
9
8
0
21
19
11
18
14
19
12
26
23
17
9
26
16
7
33
11
31
7
11
18
19
0
2
3
11
3
15
32
3
1
Your fault is that you believe in holy grail. You decide to bet on numbers, if you continue down this path roulette will destroy you.
Madi
Heres stoopid +3 at the end of the 47 spins, stop on 19th spin #19 Voodoo, be +15
* # *
spin Madi Holy Grail <1-12> <13-24> <25-36>
01,13,25 35
02,14,26 7
03,15,27 19
04,16,28 24
05,17,29 0
06,18,30 10
07,19,31 17
08,20,32 18
09,21,33 5
10,22,34 10 w
11,23,35 25
12,24,36 16
01,13,25 7
02,14,26 36
03,15,27 9
04,16,28 8
05,17,29 0
06,18,30 21
07,19,31 19 w
08,20,32 11
09,21,33 18
10,22,34 14
11,23,35 19
12,24,36 12 w
01,13,25 26
02,14,26 23
03,15,27 17
04,16,28 9
05,17,29 26
06,18,30 16
07,19,31 7 w
08,20,32 33
09,21,33 11
10,22,34 31
11,23,35 7
12,24,36 11
01,13,25 18
02,14,26 19
03,15,27 0
04,16,28 2
05,17,29 3
06,18,30 11
07,19,31 3
08,20,32 15
09,21,33 32
10,22,34 3
11,23,35 1
Madi
I see the Guvnor Wikel showed no problem with these numbers.
So now to see how the non-hit come.
You have 9/10 in spins 1-10. If you know anything about KTF, theres a piece of info to help see the trot, called countback. Countback comes from collecting loads of games to see averages, average tells us in spins 11-40 we could see 15.7/15.8 non-hit in 30 spins, so drop the point and 15 is half the 30 spins, so you can see at spin 40 we should/could see 24 non-hit have come. (15+9)
Also you can see a small w marked at 13th, 25th and 37th, Winkels info points.
Last piece of the puzzle what do the non-hit average to hit in? answer work with the posted average document. Upto the 19th non-hit they average to hit in 2 spins, then upto the 26th, 3spins and upto the 30th non-hit 4 spins.
See how you get on
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/09/23/temp_964145.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4Wq7)
Valvo hope you can download
Good evening All,
Good evening Mr.Winkel,
i've tried a lot of simples systems since young and inexperienced but now that I fall in these huge amounts of threads and few days of study and learning I would deeper understand GUT system because I found the idea strong based, moreover is based on law of the third that I like so much!!
So, hope to have fun , already I've tried some trackers to check some spins...really impressive! Thanks a lot to Winkel!
Quote from: Azim on Jan 09, 05:35 AM 2014
Here I have a test run to show you what I meant when I said looking at the same numbers in different ways:
36
9
32
29
5
24
17
12
28
23
30
11
35
7
35
15
18
26
14
26
16
12
25
0
35
34
11
4
32
19
9
11
22
3
24
13
36
5
14
23
15
9
8
3
1
3
21
0
8
31
7
11
23
21
7
0
10
22
1
3
29
2
34
30
1
1
12
26
14
27
22
13
19
17
24
13
30
3
31
28
29
27
2
33
26
24
23
35
4
19
20
18
31
5
5
11
28
18
23
4
28
34
16
5
29
4
12
7
9
33
6
2
32
1
26
28
29
11
24
24
23
27
23
8
35
23
25
30
30
27
11
32
17
12
15
31
17
5
10
26
32
34
9
9
12
27
34
0
23
27
18
19
12
34
3
18
35
16
32
18
14
12
19
23
|
And here is brain dead just betting 0x's with +1/-1
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/06/temp_480201.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7hB0) |
:ooh:
Good Evening Mr.Nottophammer
could you explain me why and how do you cancel this numbers in orange? I'm starting today to study KTF.
This is the new way to scratch instead of using the 10x4 rectangles that I saw in the first posts?
Thank You very much
Regards
Gitano
1st KTF, read this.
KTF
Never forget that KTF is just betting Non-hit numbers off the mat/wheel.
It starts with all 37 non-hit numbers available.
Collect 10 spins, let’s assume no repeat, so the bet is the remaining 27 non-hit numbers, if win, scrub from your chart of the mat. Now just bet the remaining 26 non-hit numbers, if it’s repeat of the numbers that have hit once, you will re-bet and +1 the units to two units, if the 26 non-hit win, scrub the winning non-hit from your chart of the mat and now bet the remaining 25 non-hit numbers, but you now minus the units back to 1 unit, if the 26 non-hit lost again, then you would +1 the units to 3 on the 26 remaining non-hit numbers.
So the progression is +1/-1
KTF can, using the above progression make £50/60 units.
During the KTF topic it has been said to take an earlier win. This is of course you decision.
So the above is just betting non-hit numbers not repeats.
For repeats, I would suggest you have an understanding of what’s called the trot.
Articles to read that might help.
Gut
LOTT, Law of the third
|
Now how to cross off
Along the top is non-hit #'s 9 up to 30. Under non-hit 20 is numbers left, this would be the remaining non-hit, the ones that are not lined out, under 21 it says hit 1.
So 1st spin is #5 you line thru #5 in column under 20 and carry on thru the hit 1, that would mean 36 have not hit and 1 has hit once.
spin 2, #18 do the same line thru both 18's, so 35 have not-hit and 2 have hit once.
So #4 came at spin 25, #7 came on spin35.
now #16, 1st hit on spin 6 and you'd cross thru the 2, 16's stopping on the hit1, #16 become a 2hit on spin 28, you now line across the >1 and thru hit 2. It never showed again in the remaining spins.
Thanks , I'm understanding the aim of the strategy,
could you explain me why the hitted numbers section in the paper are printed in this way here:
1
4
7
.
.
and not in another order?
its laid out in column order, col1 1st then col2, and then col3
Its for ease of lay when want to bet go down col1, then col 2 and then 3, zero at bottom.
To the left where you write the # spun, remember it all has to add to 37 , like 36 not hit and 1 hit once, then 35 not hit and 2 have hit once.
when a 1x goes 2hit like on the sheet you showed #36 is first repeat, it still adds to 37 you add non-hits (29) + hit1 (7) dont add the >1x, but add the hit 2 (1) (29+7+1) =37 this can be hard at first but with practice gets easier
Gitano
Read nottophammer way from the 3rd reply. It'll help you understand how the non-hit come over 40 and 60 spins, which canhelp with GUT.
What you'll see at reply 3 is checkpoint boxs showing how many non-hit, hit in spins 11-40, the avg is at the bottom and on avg 15.2 non-hit come in spins 11-40, which is 30 spins and 15 is half the 30 spins, meaning you got 15 non-hit and 15 repeats.
Theres more
on the sheet you showed 5 replies back, look in the margin, 1st 10 spins = 9/10 add 15, 9+15=24, so at spin 40 could see 24 non-hit (0x's) and as you see 24th 0x came on spin 39.
Fucking shit hot or what, Notto dont give old bollox like steve with all his old BLA,BLA,BLA
Thanks Notto!
I now understand why paper is printed in that way! only for comfort in order to see quickly and bet quickly. right?
I can print
11
22
33
44 and so on ..
I read your posts and GUT posts too only 1 time, It's not so easy to bet this strategies in a real casino (airball roulette)with a lot of people,smoking and tourists shouting and laughing :-(..must to be concentrate or learn and practice a lot before.
However I have one more question on the paper track: it's so necessary to have line >3 4 >4 ?!? I think no if I stop and retrack quickly .
Thanks
Regards
Quote from: Gitano on Oct 06, 05:40 PM 2017it's so necessary to have line >3 4 >4
No, like you say one would hope to have won some units and reset.
Good luck with your studies :thumbsup:
OK THIS IS NOT GUT, IT'S TO SHOW THE TROT, that you need to understand GUT
The Post below, thanks
Gitano
I don't know if you accept 15 0x's is avg for spins 11-40, total 30 spins. So here is a sheet showing the trot, through the expected 15.2 something 0x's that could/should come.
So you get 10 spins, ends 9/10. Now you write in countback, 9+15=24, so at spins 39/40 could see 24,0x's.
LOTT says on avg for 37 spins could see 23,24,25, spin 37 shows by countback 23
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/07/temp_523666.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7iZH) |
Lets see if peeps can see the trot
Now distribution of the 15 over 30 spins 11-40, should be 5,5,5 but over time it seems to come more like 7,5,3
So if you collect your games you could get this avg as well.
Now as we expect to see 5, 0x's come, you see 0x's 10,11,12 hit fast to the countback score. So what do 0x's average to hit, well my data has the 19 0x's avg to hit in 2 spins.
If you start at spin 11 like i do just watching, the 12th 0x is now showing the game is fast, to slow the trot down, repeats are needed. Winkel reference spin 13, could of had 2 repeats, so now its decision time, do you bet the 12 will repeat, don't get clever and assume #36 is hot and leave out, better to bet all 12,
OR wait.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/07/temp_702096.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7gwd) |
So if you waited, the 13th 0x is over due its missed its avg of 2 spins, so now i would start to bet for the 13th 0x, betting 25 #'s and win :thumbsup:
Moving on spins 11-20 gets 6 0x's, so plus 1 on the expected 5
25th spin shows this trot is following as expected.
Again 17th 0x missed the avg of 2 spins but hits on time to the trot shown by countback
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/07/temp_403325.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7jdU) |
think countback shows whats happening trot perfect, ends 10,+0
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/07/temp_722852.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7cgg) |
I posted a sheet of the avg and max spins for non-hit in another topic, so you could look for it, but as said upto the 19th 0x, they avg to hit in 2 spins, now upto the 26th 0x, these have an avg of 3 spins.
As you see 22nd and 23rd hit on their avg
LOTT do we say was late or say yeah we got 23,0x's
Finally countback showed how to see the trot
Thats your lesson over
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/07/temp_259362.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7HTV) |
Just got morts #'s heres the check points
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/07/temp_625880.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/78At) |
Has the lesson been learnt. 9/10, 9+15=24 whats at checkpoint 31-40 answer 24 0x's have come
spins 11-20 just said above usual is 7,+2
spins 21-30 its 11,+1 to the trot/countback
Even spin 60 is close to avg of 30.5
If 24 have come at 40th spin and avg for 60 is 30.5, you could get 6 more 0x's come, well 4 come
Good Morning!
That's fantastic Mr.Nottophammer.I've understand now the 6+1 10+0 !!
I'll need some time to understand well this , but I think I got it checking more with some of my spins.
I was seeing this chekpoints :
=0 =1 >1
1-13: 26 9 2
14-25: 18/19 14/15 3/5
....
and I was I little bit confused..altough I think it's more or less the same thing; but now I've learnt.
Saludos from Portugal
The checkpoints green box is how the non-hit come in 60 spins, as showed with countback you can see how fast the non-hit,hit.
With the GUT the crossings start say after 25th, so with the ktf column you know how the score of the non-hit go, so when a crossing comes you have another piece of info to decide whether to bet for the crossing, or as Prof Winkel said in a post you can bet against, but he never got to explain this option.
=0 =1 >1
1-13: 26 9 2
14-25: 18/19 14/15 3/5 yes Gut reference points
Gitano, Valvo
See these checkpoint box's, there not to do with GUT, but you can see how 0x's avg over 40 /60 spins. I posted 51 consecutive checkpoint box's which shows avg for 40 spins is 15.2,0x's in spins 11-40, these 30 spins coincide with crossings.
I have said how upto 19th 0x avg to hit in 2 spins, then upto 26th 0x is 3 spins, so if you keep tab of how the 0x's hit when you have a crossing it will help to make the decision of bet the crossing or against.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/08/temp_250792.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7Z7f) |
8/10, 8+15=23 end spin 40,+1
..studying studying...:-) :-) :thumbsup:
Thats it the more you study the more you see the trot
Hi Nottophammer,
could you check if I'm right here:
9/10
8,+3
13,+3
I've to expect to come 2 more 0x's in the next 30th-40th spins, -> because 9+15=24,keep counting I have 24-22= 2 to hit !?
yes 2 more could show, its fast +3, so 2 to show in 10 spins and remember they now avg to hit in 3 spins up to the 26th non-hit
..Ok, these are the numbers..from fast to very very slow
the avg here has been not working fine.. only One in 2 expected at position 31..and no more until 51th spins ?
whats your game play, GUT or are you just KTF or just watching the trot.
At the moment I just learn to read the trot and how to write it on paper.
After that I would play GUT following the chart crossing or not crossing , maybe combined to KTF in some spins where conditions are very close to the limits.
I saw that some trot, especially after 30th spins follow the avg very often! that amazing!
Regards
These 51 spins have shown at spin 40, 23 of the starting 37#’s have shown, meaning from a 9/10 start, the spins 11-40 gave 14 non-hit, -1 on the avg of 15.8
Now if you had decided to KTF from spin 11 you’d be +50 at spin 15, why because the larger group did what they should/could do.
If you had decided to, (now this will make old Mr J laugh), watch the trot, using your collected data for averages for each non-hit, but in this case I’ll use mine, at spin 16, 15,0x’s have shown, but countback shows the 15th non-hit should or could have come at spins 21/22, so the game is fast and needs to slow down, so repeats are overdue and spin 17 is a repeat, so non-hit 16 has missed and it’s known average is 2 spins, so as we’ve only had 2 repeats, I’d watch to see if it misses again for spin 18, which it does making it miss it’s average of 2 spins, now is the time to bet the 22 remaining non-hit and you win on spin 19, +14 units.
You keep watching and 19 non-hit have come by spin 23, now the average spin value is 3 spins for the remaining 18 non-hit, move on non-hit 22 of the starting 37 missed its average of 3 spins so now I’d bet, spin 30 it shows, +15 units total +29 units.
Now what the General calls, the curve fitting part.
So forget his comments as there useless to how I play. Spin 30 has 22 of the starting 37 appeared, countback shows it’s +3 at this stage of the game, so repeats should start to come, to slow the trot down.
Spin 31 gives the 14th non-hit which should/could have shown at spins 37/38 so still the non-hits are fast, now the 15th non-hit for the expected 30 spins should/could appear at spins 39/40.
So from past game play we’ve seen +4 does happen even games that end -4 at spin 40, so as you’re watching spins 32,33,34, its missed the non-hit, So it’s been fast and known max spins for the 24th non-hit is 13 spins RNG and 11 air ball, on FOBT could bet for only 7 spins and that be max bet.
So you can see a lot to work on whether to bet for non-hit or repeats. As we’ve had 23 non-hit, 14 of the expected 15 already shown at spin 31, would you not be going for repeats?
Perhaps this will help.
Here is the record sheet marked out with countback the expected 15 non-hit to come in spins 11-40
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_701712.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JBor) |
If you decided to use braindead KTF no thought to repeats just using +1/-1 +50 Ghost 12th non-hit leaves 25 non-hit to bet, win
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_633709.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JL6x) |
so here you see countback showing where the 17th non-hit could have come, so a fast game. Up to the 19th non-hit avg to hit in 2 spins so 16th was now overdue, but you've still got to make that decision and what does spins 11-20 usually give answer 7,+2
Here we've had 8 non-hit, 21-30, usually has 5 non-hit, remember 7,5,3 is usual for avg. All to be thought of as game continues, the thinking mans game, not plasterers or woodpeckers, eh wiggy :thumbsup:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_184365.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JmCK) |
look where 22nd could have come, after the 19th non-hit appears the avg to hit rises to 3 spins, 22nd non-hit
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_262989.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JrcB) |
so 23rd in orange still fast and thats 14th non-hit, so as said repeats need to happen, so would you not be betting repeats.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_688963.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/J7O9) |
Yes! Mr.Nottophammer Good Morning!
Now I learnt this! ThankYou
So finally, if I understood fine , This was a good trot to win good, at the beggining with the fast non-hit and after 31/32th spin with the slowly repeaters?
Every day I get more clear this :thumbsup:
Yes , but remember all replies is to my data, you need to collect your own data for where you will play.
In GUT topic winkel said if you use RNG it needs to play to the law of the third, if it does not play to LOTT then you'll have to ? if its rigged.
FOBT's in UK bookies does show they play to LOTT, even if you look at old replies from say 3 years ago the spins play to LOTT and Countback that i didn't even have back then shows these machines are fair.
Even MPR plays to LOTT you can see this in posts posted in spins from multi-player
Valvo
in the KTF column yes R is repeat and does count as a spin you see it does on GUT as 2x's and 3x's appear on the righthand section as the lines grow
What does KTF me and should I be doing the same as you? is that mean?
The same as me, thats for you to decide.
KTF is just betting the remaining non-hit numbers from spin 11 using +1/-1, on Gitano's spins above i showed how the larger group the remaining non-hit wins +50, it does win most of the time, but you need to have a win value in mind, if profit is there after spins 11,12,13 you could take that profit and reset, or if repeats come and profit lost, but the non-hit come again and profit now gets close to spin 13, you could take that, it depends on can you Keep The Faith KTF, with the +1/-1
Has that answered your question, if need more let me know, always try to help
Quote from: nottophammer on Oct 15, 10:44 AM 2017
Yes , but remember all replies is to my data, you need to collect your own data for where you will play.
In GUT topic winkel said if you use RNG it needs to play to the law of the third, if it does not play to LOTT then you'll have to ? if its rigged.
FOBT's in UK bookies does show they play to LOTT, even if you look at old replies from say 3 years ago the spins play to LOTT and Countback that i didn't even have back then shows these machines are fair.
Even MPR plays to LOTT you can see this in posts posted in spins from multi-player
All my spins will collect from this machine here at the Estoril Casino in Lisbon
link:://:.spininc.com/Content/Images/uploaded/SpinTec/SpinTecStation.jpg
Until now it is showing a lot of perfect trots! 24,+0 / 25,+0 .Tha one I show here before it was very strange/fast trot
so all you need to do is collect atleast 60 to 80 spins and build a data base for each non-hit, know its avg to hit and the max spins to hit, over time you can see there avg spins
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_841362.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JPMc) |
see up to the 19th 0x they avg 2 spins.Whats there Max its all there, you just have to build it. Theres loads of info from it
Quote from: nottophammer on Oct 15, 12:16 PM 2017
so all you need to do is collect atleast 60 to 80 spins and build a data base for each non-hit, know its avg to hit and the max spins to hit, over time you can see there avg spins
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_841362.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JPMc) |
see up to the 19th 0x they avg 2 spins.Whats there Max its all there, you just have to build it. Theres loads of info from it
:-X
Oh no! I didn't understand how to compile this Notto..
Okay,i'm no excel expert, so this is probably basic, but it does the job for me.
So this is the start, row 1
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_423254.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JgLa) |
Row 2 this game on 17.04,17 in 1st 10 spins had 5 non-hit and 5 repeats. The 6th non-hit took 1 spin, the 7th 2 spins. So spin 11 took 1 spin to find one of the remaining non-hit, the 6th non-hit , it took spin 12 and spin 13 to find the 7th non-hit, so 2 spins, do this for all non-hit that come.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_207614.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Jq6i) |
I keep 3 spaces between the games, and as you see theres been only 1 game where we had 5 non-hit, space 3 and theres been only 2 games of 6 non-hit in 1st 10 spins.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_351475.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JHDA) |
Heres the total game count
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_435941.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/J8qs) |
Now perhaps members will see why theres a 76% chance of a repeat in 1st 10 spins
Now the tricky part, how do you see how many non-hit came in spins 11-40
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_974931.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JkO7) |
if you highlight from 6th non-hit to the 22nd non-hit the task bar would show count 17 and sum 27, so spins 11-40 had 17 non hits come in 30 spins, remember the 1st 10 spins in column B have to be counted so 10+27=37 you can see the 23rd took 8 spins so the 23rd non-hit came after 40 spins.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/15/temp_360498.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/JoVQ) |
Hey Notto
Are the screen shots above from a programme.?
I am only using the sheet I down loaded a week or so ago. Should I down load the program and use it for studying?
Valvo
go to page 93 of KTF in testing zone, look at reply july 15 08:03 2016 theres a document of averages , thats what the excel sheet is used for
also at the bottom of page 80 in KTF is testing tool from Priyanka
Its green and Mr Taotie not like green
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/25/temp_906219.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sEJpU)
Winkel is it possible to show stats where ? marks are.
Would be a great help.
Also will you ever show the next stage of Gut ?
Thanks
Notto
Hi Nottophammer,
I hope you are well?
Did you ever manage to get a reply from Winkel regarding these checkpoints? I'm in the process of compiling my own stats for a couple of UK online roulette sites, so I'd be interested in seeing them or exchanging information regarding your stats for UK bookie machines, if you're up for it?
Kindest regards
link:://:.g-u-t.co/tracker-guide.html
I bought this a few years ago maybe it can help you too?
General
Those charts; i have templates to copy and paste.
I prefer to do this, rather than have RX show over thousands of spins what i know happens in 60 spins.
You can't stand this method because it's a sound method.
I practiced on the paper sheet i made that the B+M don't mind having as the casino managers have asked what i have and just look and walk off.
But Caleb or who ever you like to be; i can play GUT in a B+M with no problem of laying bets; why, because i practiced before trying, when it became second nature, tried in Asper MK, and won, son-in-law was quite impressed
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/03/source93f37.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OpzgB)
Anyone who has to change their usernames across forums is quite clearly a cunting troll. No other reason for it. Btw notto, im spurs but will be hoping hammers roll over Liverpool tomorrow!
Jono
Repeats are late; Yeah i know Saint 1/37
Profit made spin15, good old non-hits
You can see 15 non-hits average to hit in spins 11-40
You can see 10 of the expected 15 have hit.
So repeats are needed to slow the non-hits! Or is it a rare set of 40 spins that say 32 of the staring 37 hit?
The crossing 19-18 you are told to leave; lost, so good advice.
So the non-hits are slowing; 22 of the starting 37 have hit.
3 more non-hit from the remaining 15; to give the usual average; at spin 40. Repeats that usually show 1-3-5-7 have shown as 0-0-8 so 1 repeat short
for 30 spins.
so the great start for the non-hits; where KTF did the job.
The expected 15 came at spin 34
So if you track like this you can see whats going on.
What does Randy J reckon?
Read Nimo; +113
He'll give you a good read
Don't forget you'll have to play millions of spins to win, think of what 6th is showing in his basic thread
Ouch... Are we still on this.... I would have thought there is enough info for everyone to follow and play
Azim
New members do ask about it.
Glad. Hopefully General is on board with this.
Who takes any notice of the General. All he'll say is look for a wobbly wheel.
You can see the reference points
The Game posted in KTF
You can see Winkel reference points on the clear sheet.
Now KTF is all about the non-hits and uses the 1st 3 columns. You can see 1st 10 spins is 7/10; had 3 repeats; so fast for the repeats, even to ref: point 13.
Now Notto’s average for non-hits over spin 11-40 is 15 of the remaining non-hits will show?
The arrow is pointing to the 16th non-hit; that should really come at spins 27-28. You are only expecting 22 non-hits from the starting 37. So non-hits are fast and need to slow!
Reference point 25! Would need 2 more non-hits, so we’d be saying 18 non-hits would have hit?
Now the 1/37; would it be another non-hit or more likely be a repeat. The repeat would it be a hit once or hit more than once.
So here is the 0x v 1x or now 0x v 1x+>1x; with your tracking that you’ve added, it will help your decision; even if it is a 1/37 spin.
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 21, 09:22 AM 2019
You can see Winkel reference points on the clear sheet.
Now KTF is all about the non-hits and uses the 1st 3 columns. You can see 1st 10 spins is 7/10; had 3 repeats; so fast for the repeats, even to ref: point 13.
Now Notto’s average for non-hits over spin 11-40 is 15 of the remaining non-hits will show?
The arrow is pointing to the 16th non-hit; that should really come at spins 27-28. You are only expecting 22 non-hits from the starting 37. So non-hits are fast and need to slow!
Reference point 25! Would need 2 more non-hits, so we’d be saying 18 non-hits would have hit?
Now the 1/37; would it be another non-hit or more likely be a repeat. The repeat would it be a hit once or hit more than once.
So here is the 0x v 1x or now 0x v 1x+>1x; with your tracking that you’ve added, it will help your decision; even if it is a 1/37 spin.
Makes you wonder why it doesn't work huh? ::)
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 18, 08:38 AM 2019Who takes any notice of the General. All he'll say is look for a wobbly wheel.
Quote from: Azim on Jun 18, 07:42 AM 2019
Glad. Hopefully General is on board with this.
Nope he's in KTF at moment trying to learn how to win some KFC
Quote from: The General on Jun 21, 12:04 PM 2019
Makes you wonder why it doesn't work huh? ::)
Makes me wonder sometimes. After so many years why you still hunting?
Quote from: foogus on Jan 22, 08:30 AM 2014
I made a separate post here for the rules as I saw them from Winkel's thread.
17-13 numbers 2 bets
12-10 numbers 3 bets
9-8 numbers 4 bets
36/numbers=times to bet (use first number only; 3,5 = 3)
Stop at >39 units otherwise play till spin 50, no stoploss no limit (this one I changed to suit myself as I noticed the rebounds that often happened)
Rebet a crossing as long as it is alive
15-14 moves to 15-13 stop betting
15-14 stays 15-14 rebet (once see above)
especially later in the spins when bet 0vs2 appear:
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-9 loss
9-8 loss stopp betting
9-9
9-8
9-7 stop
9-8 (a 1 has hit) start betting max 4times again
Play
0vs1
1vs2
0vs1>
0vs2>
1vs1>
1vs2
This is just my take and it worked OK for me. Attached is a summary of the GUT.
If Winkel was given time; I'm sure he'd have told how to bet the repeats.
Remember Turbo; to hit 3 times it has to hit 2 times, you know the rest.
So the 37 start on the left and head right; the 1x's do the same, want to head right to 37.
Who potentially starts next lap?
Foogus, often looked at this, good work from back in the day.
Hello im learning the GUT right now but "working" on paper is hard for me, can somebody upload trackers for GUT on this forum because for some reason i cant register on VLS:( cheers
Technoid
Are you using the paper tracker at reply 419. There coming forward are plenty of replies with used games showing how tracked. Quite simple to use and you won't use electronic in B+M.
Could be on page 28 or top of page 29.
Can someone math guy calculate me, that how much is the percantage that in 30 spins there is no number that hit 3 times at least?
Thanks