Hello. Im sure there are tons of threads on this but maybe some new ideas?
Looking for a safe progression on a single dozen and a safe progression with double dozen.
I saw a double dozen progression of 1 3 9 27 and that is too crazy
Sorry Rich, there are no new ones for either dozens or double dozens. Maybe a tiny tweak to an existing progression, but nothing new. They all have losing sequences. Some increase in bet size faster than others, but in the end if you don't have a stop loss, they'll hit that run of losses that never seems to end.
Sad but true. :'(
GLC
Thanks GLC. There must be a way to bet on double dozens and have a MM scheme thats a winner in a long run. The math is with the bettor since its more than 50 percent of the table
You can even add a zero bet for insurance
Hey glc I saw an old thread you were a part of. The 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 progression on double dozens reseting back to 1 on a high. What do you think
Rich - It's a tough bet path on the double 2 : 1 bets where you lose twice as much as you win & therefore in basic terms need to win twice as much as you lose just to break even. Zero bets add to the difficulty of profit.
At minimum 1 unit bets (without any zeros) & say you lose 3 in a row you are down 6 units & it then takes 12 winning bet units in total (anway you play it) @ 50% returns to get 6 units back to just break even.
What about the 1 3 9 27 progression (actually x2 of that = 2 6 18 54) with a stop loss on any loss ? I play it sometimes at my local casino on the live dealer Rapid Roulette touch screen section. @ $5 min bet per doz/col & $500 max., total bets are then (2 x$5) $10 $30 $90 $270. Min. BR $400.
The triple up 4 level progression isn't too crazy when you leave the casino with a nice profit & a smug smile. I've also played it, to good effect, at a 3 level progression of $10 $30 $90 as hit & run on multiple tables & so only needs a min. BR of $130. The hit & run works on any win at 1 table then move to another table & repeat the process. This used pattern betting (bulk info. on CC here) where the pattern "says to the casino that it can't avoid certain twin 2 : 1 bets over 3 levels ".
Thanks
Youd need a win within four spins on a 1 3 9 27 progression
good info on the move table on a win
How about a 1 doz progression?
Quote from: richbailey86 on Sep 06, 10:42 AM 2014
Hello. Im sure there are tons of threads on this but maybe some new ideas?
Looking for a safe progression on a single dozen and a safe progression with double dozen.
I saw a double dozen progression of 1 3 9 27 and that is too crazy
Try a positive progression on the double dozen bets.
1,1,1,1 (four wins in a row, increase both dozens by one unit)
Restart to base bet on a loss.
-----------------------------------------------------------
If a single dozen loses three consecutive times increase bet by one unit.
Less one unit on a win.
thanks for replies
how about this?
penthouse prog
progression: 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5
as you lose step up the ladder, 2 wins in a row reset
on 1 dozen it would be good i think
if you win on the 10th bet at 4 units you have just won 8 units, win a 2nd time in a row thats another 8 units for a total of 16 units
that would cover previous losses and give a loss of 2 units then reset
Rich, Proof’s suggestions are great. Try them.
I’ve read of another progression for double dozens in which the line is built by increasing the distance between each step in the line by +1 more unit. So, if you start off with 1-1, that will be the only win level that you earn plus units on. If you lose 1-1 you increase it by 1-1 = 2-2. If you lose 2-2 you increase it by 2-2 = 4-4. If you lose 4-4 you increase it by 3-3 = 7-7. If you lose 7-7 you increase it by 4-4 = 11-11, etc… Your line looks like this:
1-1; 2-2; 4-4; 7-7; 11-11; 16-16; 22-22; 29-29; 37-37; 46-46; 56-56; 67-67; 79-79; 92-92 etc…
Move one step to the right on a loss and move 1 step to the left on a win. When you get back to 1-1, you will still be down a few units if you lose anywhere after 4-4. This is a relatively safe progression to use. Only in the worst sequences will you get too deep into the progression. It will cost you some units to get out of big drawdown but it’s an illusion to think you can continually win small wins without the risk of the big loss. The above progression gives you a little more hope to elude a major loss.
The true line for double dozens is 1-1; 1-1; 2-2; 2-2; 3-3; 3-3; 4-4; 4-4; 5-5 etc… Move two steps to the left on a win and 1 step to the right on a loss. Whenever you get back to the 1st 1-1 you’ll be even for the trot.
Have fun,
GLC
Rich, sorry, I posted mine right as you were posting your last reply. There's no right answer, just what you like to play. Test them an see how they work is all you can do.
How about differential book betting (DBB) all 3 dozens & only betting MARTY the differences between the low & the highs for the Dbl Doz/Col ?
Bet 1. Start DBB & Trigger 1 1 1, 30R = -1L -1L +2W = +/- 0. Bet 2. DBB calc 2 2 1, -1 = bet 1 1 0, 24B = -1L 2W 0L = -1 +2W = +/- +1.
Bet 3. DBB 2 0 1 bet -2L 0W -1L, 19R = -3L- +1 @bet 2. = +/- -2. Bet 4. DBB calc 4 1 2 , -1 bet 3L 0L 1W, 36R = -3 + 2 = -1 & -2 = +/- -3.
Bet 5. DBB 6 1 0 bet 6L 1L 0W, 34R = - 7 & -3 = +/- -10. Bet 6. 12 2 0 bet 12L 2L 0W, 26B = -14 & -10 = +/- -24.
Bet 7. 24 4 0 bet 24W 4L 0L, 1R = 48 -4 = +44 & - -24 (bet 6) = +/- +20. Bet 8. 0 8 1 bet 0L 8W 1L, 13B = 16 -1 = +15 & +20 (bet 7) = +/- +35.
Bet 9. 1 0 2 bet 1L 0 L 2W, 35B = -1 +4 = +3 & +35 (bet 8 ) = +/- +38. End of demo. test.
For single doz/col bets you just bet the single highest amount. If/when 2 bets are the same value just book "V" (virtual) bet until you get a single high amount. eg Bet 2. above is 1 1 0 so a nil money "V" bet. Bet 3. @ 2 0 1 would become a 1 unit bet on the 1st Doz or Col A, as 2 -0 -1 = 1.
Zero insurance bets are an option. The zero outlay can be added to the other bets for a std bet return on any 2 : 1 win. Granted you do lose a bit more on any loss, as always it's risk vs reward.
Quote from: GLC on Sep 06, 10:53 AM 2014
Sorry Rich, there are no new ones for either dozens or double dozens. Maybe a tiny tweak to an existing progression, but nothing new. They all have losing sequences. Some increase in bet size faster than others, but in the end if you don't have a stop loss, they'll hit that run of losses that never seems to end.
Sad but true. :'(
GLC
Evening George,
You sumed it up nicely,progressions work, but not all the time.
Rich ,just make sure you make enough money before she hits,so that your still in profit after the hit. If you can't make a profit, the answer is give up before the sh-t hits the fan.
Quote from: GLC on Sep 06, 04:28 PM 2014
Rich, Proof’s suggestions are great. Try them.
I’ve read of another progression for double dozens in which the line is built by increasing the distance between each step in the line by +1 more unit. So, if you start off with 1-1, that will be the only win level that you earn plus units on. If you lose 1-1 you increase it by 1-1 = 2-2. If you lose 2-2 you increase it by 2-2 = 4-4. If you lose 4-4 you increase it by 3-3 = 7-7. If you lose 7-7 you increase it by 4-4 = 11-11, etc… Your line looks like this:
1-1; 2-2; 4-4; 7-7; 11-11; 16-16; 22-22; 29-29; 37-37; 46-46; 56-56; 67-67; 79-79; 92-92 etc…
Move one step to the right on a loss and move 1 step to the left on a win. When you get back to 1-1, you will still be down a few units if you lose anywhere after 4-4. This is a relatively safe progression to use. Only in the worst sequences will you get too deep into the progression. It will cost you some units to get out of big drawdown but it’s an illusion to think you can continually win small wins without the risk of the big loss. The above progression gives you a little more hope to elude a major loss.
The true line for double dozens is 1-1; 1-1; 2-2; 2-2; 3-3; 3-3; 4-4; 4-4; 5-5 etc… Move two steps to the left on a win and 1 step to the right on a loss. Whenever you get back to the 1st 1-1 you’ll be even for the trot.
I just noticed that there is a mistake in this comment. It should read "Move two steps to the right on a loss and 1 step to the left on a win... Sorry!"
Rich, here's an idea for a double dozen bet that's similar to Lanky's 6 point divisor method.
There's a discussion about it here.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3731.msg33882#msg33882 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=3731.msg33882#msg33882)
A final reply on this topic. Final as of now.
This is our progression line: 1-1; 2-2; 3-3; 4-4; 5-5; etc...
Move 2 steps to the right on each loss, move 1 step to the left on each win. This is very close to the D'Alembert for double dozens.
Here's a short example of how it works:
Bet W/L Result
1-1 L -2
3-3 L -8
5-5 L -18
7-7 L -32
9-9 L -50
11-11 W -39
10-10 W -29
9-9 L -47
11-11 L -69
13-13 L -95
15-15 W -80
14-14 W -66
13-13 W -53
12-12 L -77
14-14 W -63
13-13 W -50
12-12 W -38
11-11 W -27
10-10 W -17
9-9 W -8
8-8 W 0
Reset to 1-1
I'm not saying this is invincible, but if you have a good bankroll and your wins vs losses returns to the upper 50's% range within your bankroll limits, you'll always reach an even or plus balance.
Remember, with all roulette systems, the longer you play continuously, the greater the chances are that the house will collect their percentage. Nothing prevents us from sitting down at the beginning of really bad series, but the longer we play at a time, we're sure to hit one eventually. Shoot for not more than 10% or maybe even 5% for your session buy-in. I wouldn't buy-in for less than 250 units.
For a simple bet selection method I suggest you bet on the last dozen to hit and the farthest back dozen to hit. This will catch a dozen that repeats and also a dozen that's due. A little gambler's fallacy, but what else is there.
As a safety measure, you could wait until you see 2 or 3 virtual losses in a row before beginning to bet for real. Or you could look for 5 or 6 losses within 7 or 8 spins before jumping in. More gambler's fallacy so not infallible, but if we're going to use a progression we're fighting the odds at best. As a matter of fact, we're fighting the odds playing a flat bet as well. Rats! :'(
Good Luck,
GLC
Rich, GLC - The Guetting progression (GP) seems to work well on the 2 : 59 pm posted results.
The Guetting system (played over 100 years ago by Guetting at Monte Carlo) is a multi stage progression & no doubt I'm not telling you GLC anything new with the GP.
It's designed to quickly reset to the minimum bet to minimise losses. Full info. for GP can be found on Google.
The original progression back when money such as pennies & francs were divided into fractions of those amounts had a 1.5 value at the second level.
So modern values due to inflation need the original values doubled to make sense, as after all you can't normally bet 1 1/2 chips unless it's a very low value game.
The GP progression line is then : stage 1. 2-2, stage 2. 3-3, 4-4, 6-6, stage 3. 8-8, 12-12, 16-16, stage 4. 20-20, 30-30, 40,40.
The basics are, on a win you move up & along the stages like changing gears, as in if you had two in line linked gear boxes. On any loss you drop down to the lowest amount at the next lower stage. In rough terms, it's up 1 step on any win & down 3 steps on any loss. It should be easy to see how losses are minimised.
GLC's examples modded to suit GP.
Bet W/L Result
2-2 L -4
2-2 L -8
2-2 L -12
2-2 L -16
2-2 L -20
2-2 W -18
3-3 W -15
4-4 L -23
2-2 L -27
2-2 L -31
2-2 W -29
3-3 W -26
4-4 W -22
6-6 L -34
2-2 W -32
3-3 W -29
4-4 W -25
6-6 W -19
8-8 W -11
12-12 W +1
16-16 W +17 A comparison shows max -34 down the hole for the GP & ending @ +17 vs max -95 down the hole & ending at +/- 00 for the original.
The next bet would be 20-20. This GP "gearbox" is player optioned in that further "ratios" can be added to suit any player/table limit.
Thanks for all the replies
Guetting progression looks interesting for double dozens. Anyone try this?
Guetting progression can also be switched over to a negative progression? Move up on a loss reset on a win
However, as is it looks promising
Nice one Ausguy.
Rich, here's another take on the Guetting Progression. I had forgotten all about it.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13771.msg118472#msg118472 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13771.msg118472#msg118472)
Enjoy,
GLC
im liking this guetting progression..............
on a red/black streak or on a baccarat banker/player streak you could clean up!
Guetting developed his play for the game Trente et Quarante, an old time French even chance type of card game with some similarites to Baccarat.
This is why the Guetting Progreesion (GP) can be applied to many other EC games & as already demonstrated modded to even suit double Doz/Col betting.
Also Rich it may be of interest for you to look at "win-max.com" via GOOGLE at their GP charts & in particular their relative comparisons to many of the popular progressions & the benefit of the GP in larger loss trends. I suppose a person could say, 1st you have to stop the losing before you can start winning ?
Ok I will check win max
After doing research someone on another forum claims he passed the allan wilson acid test by using the guetting progression combined with blackjack basic strategy. Bj basic strategy lowers house edge to .5 percent
As with all positive progressions, the obstacle to overcome are all the false starts that cost you units while you're waiting for the big winning steak to show up. If it were the obvious answer, we wouldn't be trying a variety of negative progressions.
Test thoroughly before risking money. Although with positive progressions you go into the hole slowly so there's plenty of time to decide to throw in the towel without getting caught having to decide if you make the next huge bet or take the large loss.
ausguy im not having luck finding the GP charts please link me
I don't have the link directly but it is win-maxx.com with two xs, not win-max.com.
Yes correct it's win-maxx- My error sorry.
I get it on google by : 1. type in "guetting progression" 2. google lists an array of items & at or near the top should list "The Guetting Progession Win Maxx" & then you're there. Best of luck.
see image. win maxx loves guetting
Don't be deceived. The win/loss order has been cherry-picked to highlight the GP's strong points.
Not trying to discourage the use of this progression but it certainly has it weaknesses. It's weaknesses fall way short of the weaknesses of a negative progression, but they're still there.
Positive progressions like this one are the only ones Brett Morton recommends in his book "Roulette, Play To Win". He gives the reverse labby and Parlay betting 9 out of 10 points. He doesn't critique the Guetting Progression which is odd, but I suspect he'd give it 9 out of 10 also.
Personally, when I can force myself to play a positive progression, I prefer the reverse Labby. I always start with ten 1's and stop any time I win 5 units or lose my 10 units. It can be a real exercise in patience if you always start each line with ten 1's, so, being the negative progression maniac that I am, I increase my 10 units by +1 after a 10 unit loss and I decrease my 10 units by -1 after I win 10 units.
You can still find yourself in a pretty deep hole this way, so test thoroughly.
Cheers,
GLC