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I've been doing this now for over 3 decades - that said...

There are some major problems lately with the mindset of people who work on systems/methods.
From what I've been reading, this almost covers everyone as well - I'm not sure why.

I'm just going to point some things out, probably no one will agree with me - but if you think about it, you'll understand - and if not, 30 years later you'll agree with me lol.

Roulette - where the next spin has nothing to do with the last spin, the numbers aren't pulled from the list of numbers after they show up - not like balls in a lottery machine, each spin is independent from the last.

1) "Trigger"
Waiting for something to happen before betting is a waste of time.
There is no event that somehow signals what the future event will be.

2) "Virtual bets"
"NOT" betting for whatever reason, and then trying to use that info on future
spins is a waste of time. If you have a system/method that works - by "not" betting -
you are losing out on winning spins. If your system/method doesn't work, then you
are only prolonging the time that it loses. There's no value in "not betting", this falls into
the same boat as triggers. So "not losing" because you didn't bet on a virtual spin isn't winning.
And not winning because you were not betting on a spin where you would have won is
also not winning, it's a waste of time.

3) "Leaving the casino/table after 'x' happens"
Stopping and leaving the casino when "X" happens - either in profit or loss, or some event happens
doesn't change the long-term. A player who goes into a casino using this type of play can keep a total of their spins over a year, while player "B" can play the same number of spins nonstop and they will have equal results. The next spin after your 'rule' tells you to stop and leave could be the one that puts your loss back into a profit, or vice-versa. So nothing is accomplished.
"If you're ahead - stop" is probably the best advice. or "If you've lost your bankroll, go home".
But some "trigger" that happens and you feel it's time to stop or change tables - simply isn't logical.
By stopping and leaving, you can prolong a loss or prevent a further win - both don't change because you stop and come back next week.

These are just the first 3 obvious ones that recently seem to appear in every method, and I understand that those who believe in them won't just stop thinking that way but I'm telling you that you have to change how you look at the game.
Roulette is a math game, it's as simple as that.
Math - doesn't change in any way whatsoever - triggers, virtual play, stop loss/leaving doesn't change math - nor does anything else you can come up with when it comes to creative bet amounts or timing your play.

I'm not anti-system, I'm just the opposite - but people should know that this is math, nothing more.
The house edge is there regardless of 1, 2 or 3 above (and others) and that can't be avoided unless you understand math and how it can be used in your favor regardless of the edge the house has. None of the 3 above help with that.

Thanks for reading.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:   A good ole turbo post. 

To be continued... ?!

I don't agree with everything.

Yes each trail is independent, but we have odds and statistics and we can measuring the random flow using math.
I think that we can define the worst and extreme and bet against it using simulations with statistics.

For example 6.0 SD with even money bets has not happen during several million simulations.
Then i don't see that as limit as all world records can be broken.
But i see it as benchmark or value that i play against in the short run and have very good odds to win during my game, as i would be extremely unlucky if i would experience 6.0 SD.
So here i can use "trigger" to overcome 6.0 SD.

The down side is that you will bet less and slow down the game.
The up side is that you will probably never experience the worst and extreme to be beaten with new record.

Cheers

I agree with all 3 and have posted against all 3. However, my views just like this thread, will go unnoticed and kicked to the side.  All 3 points are very correct. The thing you left out Turbo were a few of the crazy progressions.

Not talking up or down with unit sizes, more like this >>
1 3 7 14 22 35 49 65 80 103 128 157 309 552 794 1098 1659 etc etc. UNPLAYABLE situations.

Ken

Eh. Theres two sides to every coin

Triggers CAN win a lot of money

IF YOU CAN find an event that happens on average in a certain amount of time you can wait for that event to happen

take one tastes 1 2 3 dozens. We see this occur once every 100 spins

You can wait and that can be your trigger. And you will win

Triggers can work if you exploit a rare event

Saying a trigger cant work is a broad statement. Wait for that rare event...

Can one of the mods please delete this topic?  It's obvious Turbo is trying to stop all reasons for posting on this forum. 

I think he must be working for one or more casinos who are losing too much money to the members of this forum.  Or maybe he's working for another roulette forum.  Probably in cahoots with the Wizard of Odds or something. :girl_to:

I'm switching to Keno.  I've come up with a very, very clever progression that is guaranteed to overcome the house edge. :lol:

GLC

P.S.  Tongue in cheek so please no PM's.

Quote from: GLC on Nov 21, 11:35 AM 2015
Can one of the mods please delete this topic?  It's obvious Turbo is trying to stop all reasons for posting on this forum. 

I think he must be working for one or more casinos who are losing too much money to the members of this forum.  Or maybe he's working for another roulette forum.  Probably in cahoots with the Wizard of Odds or something. :girl_to:

I'm switching to Keno.  I've come up with a very, very clever progression that is guaranteed to overcome the house edge. :lol:

GLC

P.S.  Tongue in cheek so please no PM's.

All respect to turbo

I love some of his systems

But GLC is right. If we do these 3 steps there wouldnt be a roulette forum

I never know when GLC is joking (lol). This thread is 100% accurate. I agree with it so does that mean I also am working for a casino? Listen, I did all of these items (and more not listed) years ago.

The OLDER members know of my past threads/posts. The most extreme I can do is....up units on wins and/or down units on a loss etc. but not HUGE progressions. I dont agree with switching tables and that is NOT the same as quitting for the day (having a bad day).

I do like SOME (not all) cancellation methods and SOME (not all) methods based on EVENT betting. I said it before, we are either betting on already hit numbers (for whatever reason) OR we are betting on unhit numbers (for whatever reason), I dont see much of a grey area on this.

Your BR should equal at least TWO of your GROSS wins. Betting $10 units? You need at least $700 as a BR. (this is my opinion mind you based on YEARS of playing)....and for God's sake, stop betting on 27 numbers.

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 21, 12:02 PM 2015
I said it before, we are either betting on already hit numbers (for whatever reason) OR we are betting on unhit numbers (for whatever reason), I dont see much of a grey area on this.

and for God's sake, stop betting on 27 numbers.

I don't agree on that Ken, how about a "nothing is ever due" mantra ? I don't know what's coming next or when a bet is going to start or stop being hot.....

& re 27 numbers, that's 2 Ec's, which gives you a chance to break even for a while, when things aren't going
all you way......

@turbo

nice to see you posting here  :thumbsup:

O0

I think the trigger thing is 100 percent wrong

Yes. Past spins dont affect future spins

But you can capitalize on a rare event

Give me an example or two how this is not correct >> I said it before, we are either betting on already hit numbers (for whatever reason) OR we are betting on unhit numbers (for whatever reason).

Ken

It depends on the trigger

2 comes then 3 comes bet against 4 coming next

Dozen 1 2 3 shows then 3 2 1 shows bet against 1 2 3

Rare event. If the trigger is a rare event it has merit

2 3 then 4? Good trigger

It comes down to how good is the trigger

If the trigger is 2 reds now bet black you aree gonna habe a bad time

I'll re-word it >> A method that does NOT involve unhit numbers OR numbers that are
hot (semi-hot, already hit)?? We are betting on *ONE* of these two concepts. What is a THIRD option NOT involving what I just said?

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 21, 01:28 PM 2015
Give me an example or two how this is not correct >> I said it before, we are either betting on already hit numbers (for whatever reason) OR we are betting on unhit numbers (for whatever reason).

Ken

Because you don't when hot becomes cold or when cold becomes hot.....

If you not looking for whatever bet you making to become hot or cold, you possible open another avenue.

I haven't cracked it or anything, I just think it may make you look at different ways/possibilities to bet.

Like Spike said (something along these lines) use past spins in a different manner, make them into something else ?

For example, (and this doesn't work as far as I know) say your betting dozens, use columns past spins as a guide ?

That kinda thing  :thumbsup:

O0

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 21, 01:38 PM 2015
I'll re-word it >> A method that does NOT involve unhit numbers OR numbers that are
hot (semi-hot, already hit)?? We are betting on *ONE* of these two concepts. What is a THIRD option NOT involving what I just said?

Ken

Sorry didn't see this, pls see my above post.

I guess I'm trying to say don't seek out a number/EC/Dozens/Column/street etc that is hot or cold, find another reason to
bet what your betting....

I'm probably not making a lot of sense, but Hey that wouldn't be the first time......

O0

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 21, 09:04 AM 2015
I've been doing this now for over 3 decades - that said...

There are some major problems lately with the mindset of people who work on systems/methods.
From what I've been reading, this almost covers everyone as well - I'm not sure why.

I'm just going to point some things out, probably no one will agree with me - but if you think about it, you'll understand - and if not, 30 years later you'll agree with me lol.

Roulette - where the next spin has nothing to do with the last spin, the numbers aren't pulled from the list of numbers after they show up - not like balls in a lottery machine, each spin is independent from the last.

1) "Trigger"
Waiting for something to happen before betting is a waste of time.
There is no even that somehow signals what the future event will be.

2) "Virtual bets"
"NOT" betting for whatever reason, and then trying to use that info on future
spins is a waste of time. If you have a system/method that works - by "not" betting -
you are losing out on winning spins. If your system/method doesn't work, then you
are only prolonging the time that it loses. There's no value in "not betting", this falls into
the same boat as triggers. So "not losing" because you didn't bet on a virtual spin isn't winning.
And not winning because you were not betting on a spin where you would have won is
also not winning, it's a waste of time.

3) "Leaving the casino/table after 'x' happens"
Stopping and leaving the casino when "X" happens - either in profit or loss, or some event happens
doesn't change the long-term. A player who goes into a casino using this type of play can keep a total of their spins over a year, while player "B" can play the same number of spins nonstop and they will have equal results. The next spin after your 'rule' tells you to stop and leave could be the one that puts your loss back into a profit, or vice-versa. So nothing is accomplished.
"If you're ahead - stop" is probably the best advice. or "If you've lost your bankroll, go home".
But some "trigger" that happens and you feel it's time to stop or change tables - simply isn't logical.
By stopping and leaving, you can prolong a loss or prevent a further win - both don't change because you stop and come back next week.

These are just the first 3 obvious ones that recently seem to appear in every method, and I understand that those who believe in them won't just stop thinking that way but I'm telling you that you have to change how you look at the game.
Roulette is a math game, it's as simple as that.
Math - doesn't change in any way whatsoever - triggers, virtual play, stop loss/leaving doesn't change math - nor does anything else you can come up with when it comes to creative bet amounts or timing your play.

I'm not anti-system, I'm just the opposite - but people should know that this is math, nothing more.
The house edge is there regardless of 1, 2 or 3 above (and others) and that can't be avoided unless you understand math and how it can be used in your favor regardless of the edge the house has. None of the 3 above help with that.

Thanks for reading.

3) "Leaving the casino/table after 'x' happens"
Stopping and leaving the casino when "X" happens - either in profit or loss, or some event happens
doesn't change the long-term" >>> Over the long term? I agree but we still need a certain point as to WHEN to leave if we are getting our a** kicked. Myself? As I said, two gross wins in the hole and I'm out the door.

Ken

"find another reason to
bet what your betting" >> I'll pick ANY method, mine for example. Completing a street. Lets say I am betting on the 4, 11, 21 & 35. I look back at my stats (assuming I have everything jotted down).

I see the 4 and 21 have not hit in the last 150 spins (we'll call it unhit) and the 11 and 35 have both hit twice in the last 25 spins (we'll call it already hit). There is no third option, regardless if its a column, street, split etc.

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 21, 01:53 PM 2015

There is no third option, regardless if its a column, street, split etc.

I was using columns dozens etc to describe when somebody maybe betting.....

Yes, we are betting either hot or cold numbers but I guess what I'm trying to not to bet said numbers
because they are hot or cold......

Looks like we disagree, not a problem  :thumbsup:

O0

I 100% understand your point, honestly I do. I'm only saying, WE ARE unknowingly betting in this manner.

Regardless if its PART of the method or not, it cant be avoided. People can be non-believers in cold numbers (or columns) and they dont know they are betting on cold numbers. People can be non-believers in hot numbers (or columns) and they dont know they are betting on hot numbers.

Ken

Hit or unhit....cold or hot, not many choices after that.

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 21, 02:19 PM 2015
I 100% understand your point, honestly I do. I'm only saying, WE ARE unknowingly betting in this manner.

I also get what your putting across 100%  :thumbsup:

Maybe this is the difference, (from what you have posted) you ARE knowingly betting a hot or cold number.

I'm saying bet them UNKNOWINGLY for a different reason, that reason, no idea yet  :-[

but maybe just maybe that reason, whatever it is, could just make the difference !!!!

O0

I disagree with almost everything Turbo said except point 2.  Roulette forms patterns, some easy to follow others not so easy.  Every spin maybe independent, but patterns happen and waiting to see the pattern can be important.  This is a trigger. 

Leaving on a win is an important event.

I agree with Turbo...

For me, its about truly understanding the word Random.

If you did understand it, you wouldn't do any of Turbos 3 points.

Quote from: Turner on Nov 21, 04:40 PM 2015
I agree with Turbo...

For me, its about truly understanding the word Random.

If you did understand it, you wouldn't do any of Turbos 3 points.

I concur. I think a person either agrees with all 3 or disagrees with all 3.

Ken

"For me, its about truly understanding the word Random.
If you did understand it, you wouldn't do any of Turbos 3 points."

Nods. I agree.

"Leaving on a win is an important event."
No, only mentally - It feels nice to walk out ahead. Aside from that, it doesn't affect anything.
You could stay and keep winning, you could stay and lose what you were ahead - the act of leaving doesn't change the math and the next visit is just going to continue basically where you left off.... which makes the act of leaving when "x" happens irrelevant. It does feel good to leave ahead though, like I said - it just doesn't benefit the player.


"Rare event. If the trigger is a rare event it has merit
2 3 then 4? Good trigger"

The problem is that an event seems to be rare when it isn't. It's only how you see it.
If the spins come out #21, #21, #21, #21 - you could post the math showing this is a rare event.
BUT - it's exactly the same odds as seeing #21, #0, #13, #2 - which in your mind looks random and
not a rare event at all. So if you wait for #21, #21, #21 - the odds of the next spin being #21 is exactly the same as the next spin being #2 (from both examples). I hope this helps.
I understand that it takes a while to get to this point lol.
The hard thing to take in is that there is no such thing as a rare event in a game where each spin is independent from the last.

It's true that after the 1st 3 numbers have hit, the 4th is not a rare event.  But if you predict that the next four numbers are going to be 21, 21, 21, 21, you can call that a rare event but to fully capitalize on it you have to start betting from the beginning.  The same with 21, 0, 13, 2.  You can see that predicting that the next four spins will give you 21, 0, 13, 2 is the same odds as predicting that the next 4 spins will be 21, 21, 21, 21.  A martingale is what comes to mind to fully capitalize on predicting that the next 4 spins will be any four numbers you can think of.  The problem with a martingale is that the accumulated amount you'd have to bet is more than you'd win on all the winning runs.  It's always going to be the case because the payoff is skewed for the casino.

It's like I have said a jillion times.  If there are numbers that if spun will cause you to lose, eventually enough of them will hit close enough together to take back all your winnings plus a little.

That's why I like to use my even chance progressions playing Blackjack.  With smart play, card counting and a mild progression, I have a much better chance to win than with roulette.  Also, in my opinion, it's a more exciting and entertaining game.  No offense to those of you who love roulette.

GLC

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 21, 09:04 AM 2015
I've been doing this now for over 3 decades - that said...

There are some major problems lately with the mindset of people who work on systems/methods.
From what I've been reading, this almost covers everyone as well - I'm not sure why.

I'm just going to point some things out, probably no one will agree with me - but if you think about it, you'll understand - and if not, 30 years later you'll agree with me lol.

Roulette - where the next spin has nothing to do with the last spin, the numbers aren't pulled from the list of numbers after they show up - not like balls in a lottery machine, each spin is independent from the last.

1) "Trigger"
Waiting for something to happen before betting is a waste of time.
There is no even that somehow signals what the future event will be.

2) "Virtual bets"
"NOT" betting for whatever reason, and then trying to use that info on future
spins is a waste of time. If you have a system/method that works - by "not" betting -
you are losing out on winning spins. If your system/method doesn't work, then you
are only prolonging the time that it loses. There's no value in "not betting", this falls into
the same boat as triggers. So "not losing" because you didn't bet on a virtual spin isn't winning.
And not winning because you were not betting on a spin where you would have won is
also not winning, it's a waste of time.

3) "Leaving the casino/table after 'x' happens"
Stopping and leaving the casino when "X" happens - either in profit or loss, or some event happens
doesn't change the long-term. A player who goes into a casino using this type of play can keep a total of their spins over a year, while player "B" can play the same number of spins nonstop and they will have equal results. The next spin after your 'rule' tells you to stop and leave could be the one that puts your loss back into a profit, or vice-versa. So nothing is accomplished.
"If you're ahead - stop" is probably the best advice. or "If you've lost your bankroll, go home".
But some "trigger" that happens and you feel it's time to stop or change tables - simply isn't logical.
By stopping and leaving, you can prolong a loss or prevent a further win - both don't change because you stop and come back next week.

These are just the first 3 obvious ones that recently seem to appear in every method, and I understand that those who believe in them won't just stop thinking that way but I'm telling you that you have to change how you look at the game.
Roulette is a math game, it's as simple as that.
Math - doesn't change in any way whatsoever - triggers, virtual play, stop loss/leaving doesn't change math - nor does anything else you can come up with when it comes to creative bet amounts or timing your play.

I'm not anti-system, I'm just the opposite - but people should know that this is math, nothing more.
The house edge is there regardless of 1, 2 or 3 above (and others) and that can't be avoided unless you understand math and how it can be used in your favor regardless of the edge the house has. None of the 3 above help with that.

Thanks for reading.

***Roulette - where the next spin has nothing to do with the last spin***

I say ...roulette where the next spin( s ! )  has much to do with the last(s ! ) spin(s) .
If you use them (last spins) like a *map* or *LWs* from where you can choose the direcction you will move,
then its makes sense.   Also its makes sense to use triggers and virtual bets , why not use enter and exit points
from real play ? Why i should bet each spin? to lose more than win ?  Why not try to avoid bad runs and win more
then lose ?
About the rare events i don t care , i don t follow such an events, but i follow events that i know will occur.
Roulette has limits, just try to put some order into chaos.

cheers

"Also its makes sense to use triggers and virtual bets , why not use enter and exit points
from real play ? Why i should bet each spin? to lose more than win ?  Why not try to avoid bad runs and win more then lose ?"

I won't argue about facts - it is what it is.
After coding systems (my own and others) in RX, adding entry points, adding exit points, adding virtual bets, etc - it's simply the truth that none of those 3 I mentioned change the outcome - not even 1%.
Should you bet every spin ? Yes.

The word "past" and the phrase "past spins" should be forgotten.
To win at roulette you have to win the current bet and future ones.
Once you figure this out you'll do much better.

If your car was driving in "random" directions - would your "map" have any meaning ?
You couldn't look at it and see where you've been and determine where the car was going
to go next - it's random.
You couldn't park it and wait for 12:15pm and then drive because your method says that at that specific time you'll know what direction it's going to go - the car will still go in a random direction.
If you get out and let it drive on it's own - the car will still do the same thing (laughs).
It's a good analogy, think of it like that maybe.
Make bets on where you think the car might go and forget about where you've been.
If not, then just wait and at some point you'll come to the same truths that I have.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 22, 06:19 AM 2015
The word "past" and the phrase "past spins" should be forgotten.
To win at roulette you have to win the current bet and future ones.
Once you figure this out you'll do much better.

Make bets on where you think the car might go and forget about where you've been.

Past spins give you the pattern so that you can work out where you might be going.  Patterns occur in Roulette just like in nature all the time.

"but i follow events that i know will occur" >> I agree.

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 22, 11:28 AM 2015
"but i follow events that i know will occur" >> I agree.

Ken

Can you give an example of that pls Ken ?

thxs  :thumbsup:

O0

New thread of mine.....

Ken

It's obvious Turbo is right.  After all he's a genius!  Well, not really. :lol: :lol:

The fact is that you can't win playing roulette unless you get lucky.  Any bet you want to make is as good as any other bet someone else makes.  I used to think that having a system of play increased my chances of winning over someone who made random bets based on hunches, like my brother prefers.  Fact is he's way ahead of me in roulette.  Just plain ole dumb luck.

Lately, I seem to be trying to prove to him that systematic play is superior to willy-nilly play, but I haven't been able to pull it off so far.  My graph for time invested in roulette is a bell curve and I'm well into the lower right side of the bell. :'(  You could say my bell's been rung. :lol:

GLC

Quote from: GLC on Nov 22, 04:31 PM 2015
It's obvious Turbo is right.  After all he's a genius!  Well, not really.
GLC

Actually yes - really.

""Past spins give you the pattern so that you can work out where you might be going.  Patterns occur in Roulette just like in nature all the time.""

I'd love to agree with you but that would go against fact.
It does sound nice though.
Patterns are in the past and can be shown only after they happen
Red, Red, Red, Black, Red is a pattern yes, but it already happened.
The next spin is either Red or Black based on that individual spin that is about to happen.

I'll bow out of the thread, if anyone thinks that the 3 things I posted are wrong then you'll notice eventually in your own play and research/testing that I'm right... I'm just trying to save some years of work for you. The answer isn't in any of those 3 things.

Patterns on some bets can be accurately predicted after watching 3-5 spins, depending on the pattern you can be almost guaranteed they will continue.  With experience you learn to catch the changes then you have a consistant winner. 

This happens all the time, most gamblers just don't notice.  You have to learn to watch for the changes and catch them as they occur.  It takes practice and hard work, not something that can be taught easily.  Most just don't have the patience to learn to read the patterns.  It takes hours and hours of practice.

*** I'm just trying to save some years of work for you.***

I  thank you for your intention , really, i respect your experience in this game , but i know what i am doing right now ,
and belive me past spins help me and others to take good decisions. Very important also is the bet selection.

cheers

""and belive me past spins help me and others to take good decisions.""

No worries, like I said - in some far off distant future it all becomes clear.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 21, 09:09 PM 2015

The problem is that an event seems to be rare when it isn't. It's only how you see it.
If the spins come out #21, #21, #21, #21 - you could post the math showing this is a rare event.
BUT - it's exactly the same odds as seeing #21, #0, #13, #2 - which in your mind looks random and
not a rare event at all. So if you wait for #21, #21, #21 - the odds of the next spin being #21 is exactly the same as the next spin being #2 (from both examples). I hope this helps.

Turbo, agreed but no one listens. No one listened when I said the exact same thing here (apart from Ken)
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16053.msg140388#msg140388 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16053.msg140388#msg140388)

Correct me if I am wrong. 

What TurboGenius and Turner are saying here is that you only win if you are lucky, there is no way to know when you are going to win and nothing that happens happens for a reason.

We still have the *CONTROL* to leave when we want, the casino has NO say over that.

Do we leave when up by a small percent? Do we keep playing until three months of BRs are wiped out? I HIGHLY believe that there are SMARTER bets (very open to arguing I guess) but in terms of BETTER times or better tables or better casinos to play? I say no (imo).

Ken

SMARTER Bets-Mr. J

Guys, you've got to see Roulette as a Rubik's Cube
one solution many ways to get to it some faster some slower. (imo)

The cube or the piece of string that roulette has been liken to,has been solved by Winkel,the 0x's, 1x's and >1,the answer lies in the riddle of the TROT

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 22, 07:13 PM 2015
Actually yes - really.

""Past spins give you the pattern so that you can work out where you might be going.  Patterns occur in Roulette just like in nature all the time.""

I'd love to agree with you but that would go against fact.
It does sound nice though.
Patterns are in the past and can be shown only after they happen
Red, Red, Red, Black, Red is a pattern yes, but it already happened.
The next spin is either Red or Black based on that individual spin that is about to happen.

I'll bow out of the thread, if anyone thinks that the 3 things I posted are wrong then you'll notice eventually in your own play and research/testing that I'm right... I'm just trying to save some years of work for you. The answer isn't in any of those 3 things.

Well, I agree. I can even resume those 3 things to one : everything that can happen in roulette will eventually happen.

But... if the answer is not in any of those 3 things, what is left? Pure luck?

Quote from: button on Nov 25, 07:16 PM 2015
Correct me if I am wrong. 

What TurboGenius and Turner are saying here is that you only win if you are lucky, there is no way to know when you are going to win and nothing that happens happens for a reason.

There's more than luck - just focus on the present bet and the future ones.
Looking to the past spins and then making bets based on something that happened in the past
doesn't work.
We know from math what is likely to happen - so use that for your bet selection.
Avoid negative progressions, they only increase the amount lost in the end.
I don't believe in luck and would never rely on that to win.

Quote from: Turner on Nov 25, 05:56 PM 2015
Turbo, agreed but no one listens. No one listened when I said the exact same thing here (apart from Ken)
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16053.msg140388#msg140388 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16053.msg140388#msg140388)

Nods - our brains pick out something like that and suddenly it seems like a rare event
or impossible event, yet any 5 numbers having the same odds of showing seem common.
Math is a pain in the ass and many people don't like it - it goes against what our brains are
telling us.

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb00lz-IfE (link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb00lz-IfE)
link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=9rIy0xY99a0 (link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=9rIy0xY99a0)

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 26, 09:40 AM 2015
There's more than luck - just focus on the present bet and the future ones.
Looking to the past spins and then making bets based on something that happened in the past
doesn't work.
We know from math what is likely to happen - so use that for your bet selection.
Avoid negative progressions, they only increase the amount lost in the end.
I don't believe in luck and would never rely on that to win.

I am in agreement with Turbo`s post..

Nathan Detroit

I don t get it  , there is a contradiction i your own words ( quote taken from other forum):
I will not quote the entire reply ,just that words ,

quote from TurboG( gamblingf...):

***It's............... playing the numbers that showed up more than other numbers (this is common sense you speak of). It's the only way to win at this game.
You play the numbers that show up the most.
***

Don t take this like a personal attack , but you come here and say  no to triggers, past spins, then from above it is clear you also use
hot numbers so  decision based on past spins , yes Triggers.

cheers

Quote from: Kattila on Nov 26, 10:11 AM 2015
I don t get it  , there is a contradiction i your own words

There is no contradiction.
I didn't say "record spins and then bet the ones that have shown up the most" - that would be
using past spins to decide where to bet.
I said to focus on the current spin and future ones.

Of course someone can sit down when you're leaving and look at your past bets and see that you won and why - but that info won't help them one bit when it comes to placing their bets. Laughs.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 26, 10:26 AM 2015
There is no contradiction.
I didn't say "record spins and then bet the ones that have shown up the most" - that would be
using past spins to decide where to bet.
I said to focus on the current spin and future ones.

Of course someone can sit down when you're leaving and look at your past bets and see that you won and why - but that info won't help them one bit when it comes to placing their bets. Laughs.

But when you know the result of the current spin, it becomes "the past"...  We are left only with future spins. What you do with that?

Never mind past  spins. I go to  the table with MY  pre-selected system and commence playing.My MM tells me when to leave the table .


Win or Loss . Be consequential.


Nathan Detroi.

Quote from: vladir on Nov 26, 11:09 AM 2015
But when you know the result of the current spin, it becomes "the past"...  We are left only with future spins. What you do with that?

watch the trot

There is a difference between past spins and personal permanence i.e the spins you place a bet on "live" and on every spin.

For example, (this isnt a system particularly) lets say I work with 4 numbers and only bet on those numbers which appear when I arrive at the table.

Lets say 25 is last number ...I play #25, then #4 comes out...I play #25 and #4 until I am playing 4 numbers, say 25,4,17,22 and decide to play those 4 numbers for 4 spins, based loosely on the fact that a high % of repeats are in the first 7 spins (a mathematical fact)

(Of course, I am reducing the maths because I only playing 4 of the 7, but its a trade off against BR....thats another story)

I didnt collect them from past spins. I played them as they happen. 25 then 25,4 then 25,4,17 then 25,4,17,22

Lets say #4 hits next. I have a win, but more so, I have a repeat.

So I may play #4, then the next out until I have 4 numbers, say 4,13,33,0....and so on, aiming to have 4 wins and 4 repeaters to play 4 times.

I wasn't playing past spins. I was choosing bets from "my spins" as they happen with no interest in the number

I cant go to the bathroom, miss 3 spins, and use them. I didnt bet on them. They arnt my spins.

See, I had already decided to play my first 4 numbers in sequence and build a 4 group of repeats from my personal permanence before the ball left the dealers hand. No past numbers or patterns. Just an algorithm for the future, if you will  :thumbsup:

(Ive just made this up off the top of my head, but it looks reasonable and not a bad idea  :lol:)

"Back to the future".      So  be it.



ND

I know I might be in the minority on this, even with Turbo and thats okay. To me, what has happened in the last 10 spins, I feel is different compared to 400 spins ago.

I REALIZE by the Websters definition, they are both past spins.

Ken

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 26, 09:40 AM 2015
We know from math what is likely to happen - so use that for your bet selection.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote from: Turner on Nov 26, 05:09 PM 2015
(Ive just made this up off the top of my head, but it looks reasonable and not a bad idea  :lol:)

Absolutely wonderful post !
and no, it's not a bad idea at all....

Quote from: Turner on Nov 26, 05:09 PM 2015
For example, (this isnt a system particularly) lets say I work with 4 numbers and only bet on those numbers which appear when I arrive at the table.
Lets say 25 is last number ...I play #25, then #4 comes out...I play #25 and #4 until I am playing 4 numbers, say 25,4,17,22 and decide to play those 4 numbers for 4 spins, based loosely on the fact that a high % of repeats are in the first 7 spins (a mathematical fact)

The only problem that I see is that this still works off of past spins.
You're not getting the benefit of the 'first' time your number appears this way.
I would suggest (if you're interested in following through with this) that you pick
numbers to play when you sit down (not based on what the last spin was) and then
use a positive progression (extremely limited of course) on any winning number that you
have being played in future spins. Also you'll have to remove numbers from your list
of played numbers if they fail to show at least once during a specific amount of time.
(Ken might like this type of bet selection as it changes due to what's happening 'now' and
doesn't break my rules on using past spins for reference)
In the other forum I showed how 13 people out of 38 (American wheel) all flat bet and won
over 1,000 spins (many more spins are possible of course) by just flat betting.
How many numbers should you start with to ensure that at least one of your played numbers
will be one of those 13 that show above standard deviation hence you win ?

Ok, far too many hints in the post lol.
Enjoy your tests if you pursue this.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 27, 09:38 AM 2015
Absolutely wonderful post !
and no, it's not a bad idea at all....

Cheers.... :thumbsup:
I'll take a Turbo Genius complement all day long

so this thread is a....

system/method vs strategy vs math vs ap/vb ?

Quote from: marvin on Nov 27, 11:30 AM 2015
so this thread is a....

system/method vs strategy vs math vs ap/vb ?

I see it more system/method vs maths strategy

and I do say bathroom not toilet and $, not £ to fit in a bit, but I wont say Math.....ever !

its Maths  :thumbsup:

You ever go to a high class restaurant and ask where the bathroom is? Many times, I get bad looks!!

I have learned......ask where the restroom is (lol).

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Nov 27, 03:03 PM 2015
You ever go to a high class restaurant and ask where the bathroom is? Many times, I get bad looks!!

I have learned......ask where the restroom is (lol).

Ken

Generally I find Americans far more polite than the British.
I would say " aya mate, can y'tell me where the bogs are?"
But I am a Northerner. :thumbsup:

Thankfully, not all British Bogs are like this......

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=IJrWlHRT-18 (link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=IJrWlHRT-18)

BTW, IMO best British film ever !!!!!

O0

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 27, 10:41 AM 2015


Ok, far too many hints in the post lol.
Enjoy your tests if you pursue this.

OK Turbo

I sit down. I play col 2 with splits, 1U, 2-5, 8-11 etc

On a hit, place 1U on the winner, remove the partner ...........

far too many hints lol

Back to the topic, there(we) are many roulette players ( Winkel , Mr J,  Gizmo, Spike, and many others) which use past spins to take future decisions,
so opinions are divided , it s a free world so all free to choose the own way , also free to give advices and others take them as good or bad ones.
If one win with math good for him,  if other win with AP good for him, if other win with systems based on past spins  good for him....but never underestimate
the  other groups , if maybe you can do it in your own way the other also maybe can.  Something seems to be in common, something will repeat ...number , group , situation,event....of course this will be in the future spins but this doesn t mean we can t look at past and take a bad or a good decision.

And about to win roulette in the ve...ery long run in think all groups from above have a problem, but we don t have 1000 lifes just one so if you have a decent method (can pass at least 50 000 spins /better more )go and try to win little or big and lose little.

Quote from Winkel:
***
mainly it is said that past spins are only past and have nothing to tell about future spins.

This is not true.

As I always say: "WATCH WHAT IS GOING ON"    ***

cheers

Long time lurker here and this is a very interesting topic.

My thoughts are similar to TG and Turner, what has happened is past can have no influence on the future.  Everything from now on is the future. 

Attempting to predict what will happen in the future is the hard part of winning with Roulette.

Quote from: Kattila on Nov 28, 08:01 AM 2015
use past spins to take future decisions,
so opinions are divided , it s a free world so all free to choose the own way , also free to give advices and others take them as good or bad ones.
If one win with math good for him,  if other win with AP good for him, if other win with systems based on past spins  good for him....but never underestimate
the  other groups

Well, I'd love to agree with you but I can't.
This is a math based game and the rules of math never change.
If I come to a forum and explain that 2 + 2 = 4 it's simply fact.
Others can post how they believe that it's not 4, or that 2 + any other number = 4...
It's not "good for them", it's just not correct - the answer is there and the math can't be
changed to suit "opinions" or "beliefs" because that's impossible.
Roulette isn't "random" but it does tend to produce "random enough" -
each spin is independent from the last - so using past spins to try to figure out a future spin
isn't logical at all. Also, any other personal choices don't change the math.
Leaving when X happens, betting when X trigger happens - does nothing to change the
math.
Patterns are nice - but future ones. You can't look at what just happened and expect that to
mean anything for the next group of spins.
So opinions and thoughts/feelings/giving advice (that isn't accurate), etc. - doesn't change a thing
if you sort them out and stick with facts.
It would be nice to believe that looking to the past gives some key to the next spins - but it's not true and will never change that 2 + 2 = 4, no matter how you twist it, the math will always be the same or else the statement is no longer true.

@paulee
"Attempting to predict what will happen in the future is the hard part of winning with Roulette."

Absolutely true - and to make it worse, in another thread I can show how even knowing the future doesn't mean a win. (evil game, isn't it ?)

I  know the Maths will always be the same ( no need for 2+2 =4 s bla...bla...), also according with maths this is an unbeatable game in long run.
And yes patterns are nice, future ones and also past ones , but this will be a neverending story......

Here is a nice past pattern :

D   /   di

1
2
3
1     3
2     3
3     3
1     3
2     3
3     3

what to bet and lose ?

Also some good flat bet charts, from other past spins decisions :

Quote from: Kattila on Nov 28, 11:22 AM 2015
but this will be a neverending story......

It's only "never-ending" when people ignore the math and the facts and replace it with their opinions and beliefs. Once that's done - people can win at this game.

"no need for 2+2 =4 s bla...bla..."
Obviously there IS a need for that, as long as past spins and triggers keep popping up in topics.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 28, 09:09 AM 2015
Well, I'd love to agree with you but I can't.
This is a math based game and the rules of math never change.
If I come to a forum and explain that 2 + 2 = 4 it's simply fact.
Others can post how they believe that it's not 4, or that 2 + any other number = 4...
It's not "good for them", it's just not correct - the answer is there and the math can't be
changed to suit "opinions" or "beliefs" because that's impossible.
Roulette isn't "random" but it does tend to produce "random enough" -
each spin is independent from the last - so using past spins to try to figure out a future spin
isn't logical at all. Also, any other personal choices don't change the math.
Leaving when X happens, betting when X trigger happens - does nothing to change the
math.
Patterns are nice - but future ones. You can't look at what just happened and expect that to
mean anything for the next group of spins.
So opinions and thoughts/feelings/giving advice (that isn't accurate), etc. - doesn't change a thing
if you sort them out and stick with facts.
It would be nice to believe that looking to the past gives some key to the next spins - but it's not true and will never change that 2 + 2 = 4, no matter how you twist it, the math will always be the same or else the statement is no longer true.

@paulee
"Attempting to predict what will happen in the future is the hard part of winning with Roulette."

Absolutely true - and to make it worse, in another thread I can show how even knowing the future doesn't mean a win. (evil game, isn't it ?)

After a few years of playing around designing bet selection strategies, I too came to the above conclusion so I switched to examining every type of bet progression method I could come up with.  My theory was to recognize that every positive progression has spin sequences that will require that you have a huge bank roll and be playing at a table with a very large spread, and even then it's not 100% safe.  My intention was to find a way to play where I could expect to win almost every time I went to the casino.  I have been fortunate enough to start almost all my systems that use a progression with a good run.  I have a preset risk amount in case I start off losing.  Once I'm ahead at least my preset risk amount, I never give back more than I've won on that particular system. 

So far so good; although I can't say I'm so far ahead playing roulette that I play much any more.  Just doesn't win enough to be worth my time investment.

GLC

P.S.  I know that there's math regarding progressions that I'm fighting against the same as with bet selection methods.

Quote from: Turner on Nov 27, 07:02 PM 2015
OK Turbo
I sit down. I play col 2 with splits, 1U, 2-5, 8-11 etc
On a hit, place 1U on the winner, remove the partner ...........
far too many hints lol

Well, I wouldn't suggest that specifically - but close.
You could have a 2-5 split bet and 5 shows up - you remove 2 and then 2 shows up 10 times in the next 100 spins and 5 doesn't.
So instead - try this out..

(bear with me, I might sound insane)
Play all 12 numbers (I'll use dozen 1 since I always sit next to the wheel and the first dozen is
the easiest to reach from there.) 1 unit each.
Each time you have a win, add 1 unit to it - leave the others alone.
Do this for 2-3 (3 is better but 2 can be more playable) cycles of 38 spins.
(37 spins if you're using the Euro wheel - for my explanation I'm using my 38 slot wheel)
So (I'll use 2) cycles are over - remove 1 unit from each number.
Continue on for the next cycle - adding to the winners, after 38 remove 1 from each.
What this does is keep your bets on any number (in the section that you're playing) that
is hitting at or above 1 standard deviation.
It also keeps the total being bet on the table pretty level at all times.
There's no "out of control" progression - if anything it's a positive progression.
Say a number you're playing shows 9 times - you have quite a nice bankroll from that
number alone.
If a number gets hot and then starts now showing - you'll be removing bets from it and hence
in time it won't be played anymore. If a number stays hot and increases - you will have won
every single time it showed up since you're playing it from the start.
Is this perfect ? HELL no - but it's a start for your testing if you're interested in this.
Does it always win ?
Hmm.... I have yet to test it and not been in profit along the way.
I'll knock one out on RNG in RX and post the chart "whatever happens".
Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have.
Cheers

 @Turbo >> You know that you and I are buds but again, I must throw in my two cents. I think ALL methods have some sort of rules based on PAST spins. Its almost impossible to deny it.

So lets say the 7 hits, we now add a unit on to it. Why? That 7 is *NOW* in the past, as if it never hit. Do I think its hot or can become hot? YES but how can we take the 7 seriously if its in the past? Do I like this method? Yes again but playing already hit numbers is from the past. Playing numbers that have not hit (not your method) in a long time.....also PAST stats. EVERYTHING in roulette is technically the "past".

Do I use past info? You bet I do but like I stated a few days ago, I could careless what happened 400 spins ago.

Ken

Ralph was doing something like this in his posts?

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 28, 10:40 PM 2015
Well, I wouldn't suggest that specifically - but close.
You could have a 2-5 split bet and 5 shows up - you remove 2 and then 2 shows up 10 times in the next 100 spins and 5 doesn't.
So instead - try this out..

(bear with me, I might sound insane)
Play all 12 numbers (I'll use dozen 1 since I always sit next to the wheel and the first dozen is
the easiest to reach from there.) 1 unit each.
Each time you have a win, add 1 unit to it - leave the others alone.
Do this for 2-3 (3 is better but 2 can be more playable) cycles of 38 spins.
(37 spins if you're using the Euro wheel - for my explanation I'm using my 38 slot wheel)
So (I'll use 2) cycles are over - remove 1 unit from each number.
Continue on for the next cycle - adding to the winners, after 38 remove 1 from each.
What this does is keep your bets on any number (in the section that you're playing) that
is hitting at or above 1 standard deviation.
It also keeps the total being bet on the table pretty level at all times.
There's no "out of control" progression - if anything it's a positive progression.
Say a number you're playing shows 9 times - you have quite a nice bankroll from that
number alone.
If a number gets hot and then starts now showing - you'll be removing bets from it and hence
in time it won't be played anymore. If a number stays hot and increases - you will have won
every single time it showed up since you're playing it from the start.
Is this perfect ? HELL no - but it's a start for your testing if you're interested in this.
Does it always win ?
Hmm.... I have yet to test it and not been in profit along the way.
I'll knock one out on RNG in RX and post the chart "whatever happens".
Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have.
Cheers

Is this the start of a sales pitch

Quote from: nottophammer on Nov 29, 06:20 AM 2015
Is this the start of a sales pitch

You obviously don't know who I am.
I'll take that as some kind of ignorant insult.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 28, 10:40 PM 2015
Well, I wouldn't suggest that specifically - but close.
You could have a 2-5 split bet and 5 shows up - you remove 2 and then 2 shows up 10 times in the next 100 spins and 5 doesn't.
So instead - try this out..

(bear with me, I might sound insane)
Play all 12 numbers (I'll use dozen 1 since I always sit next to the wheel and the first dozen is
the easiest to reach from there.) 1 unit each.
Each time you have a win, add 1 unit to it - leave the others alone.
Do this for 2-3 (3 is better but 2 can be more playable) cycles of 38 spins.
(37 spins if you're using the Euro wheel - for my explanation I'm using my 38 slot wheel)
So (I'll use 2) cycles are over - remove 1 unit from each number.
Continue on for the next cycle - adding to the winners, after 38 remove 1 from each.
What this does is keep your bets on any number (in the section that you're playing) that
is hitting at or above 1 standard deviation.
It also keeps the total being bet on the table pretty level at all times.
There's no "out of control" progression - if anything it's a positive progression.
Say a number you're playing shows 9 times - you have quite a nice bankroll from that
number alone.
If a number gets hot and then starts now showing - you'll be removing bets from it and hence
in time it won't be played anymore. If a number stays hot and increases - you will have won
every single time it showed up since you're playing it from the start.
Is this perfect ? HELL no - but it's a start for your testing if you're interested in this.
Does it always win ?
Hmm.... I have yet to test it and not been in profit along the way.
I'll knock one out on RNG in RX and post the chart "whatever happens".
Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have.
Cheers

Really interesting post something I have done a bit of testing on and it works "most" of the time, until it doesn't.

Quote from: nottophammer on Nov 29, 06:20 AM 2015
Is this the start of a sales pitch

Not helpful nottophammer, TurboGenius has been around for as long as I can remember and others here will testify to his integrety.

TurboGenius is right 3 cycles of 37/38 are better than 2.

I just ran a quick test on an RNG bitcoin casino that is great for testing and over 3 cycles of 37 spins I came out in front by 113 units.  I think the lowest my BR went to was 864 units near the end of the second cycle.

Yes i know he's been around for eternity,just seemed like a sales pitch,thats all. I have posted i like Turbos bet against the previous 3.
Just tested against 62 spins from Celtic casino and -434 units, on the second doz, but if you bail out at some point could  have made 92 units

Turbo sells nothing, never has.

Ken

Thanks for the reply Turbo I will study what you said. I know the col. Idea I posted isnt good...I meant it to be an example of betting without using past spins. Should of made it clearer.

Notto....Turbo is not selling. He has always been generous with advice
Its daft to even consider it

I won first 2 times with Turbo's method - about 75-50 units. Anyone planning on testing his principles for consistency?

I won first time and lost second time, both times with 3 cyles of 38 spins as suggested.

I just ran a simulation of Turbo's method over 2,000 spins - failed big time.

The standup guys never sell

Only the slithering little snakes claim to have the grail and sell it

Quote from: falkor2k15 on Dec 01, 08:35 PM 2015
I just ran a simulation of Turbo's method over 2,000 spins - failed big time.

Explain ?
Show results.
I haven't had it 'fail' yet in my own testing - I'm curious what you consider 'failure'.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Dec 01, 08:47 PM 2015
Explain ?
Show results.
I haven't had it 'fail' yet in my own testing - I'm curious what you consider 'failure'.

Be careful turbo. Most of the time people try to sabotage a method or strategy stating its a failure. Dont get dragged into it.

I dont trust his statement. I call BS.

Quote from: falkor2k15 on Nov 30, 09:52 AM 2015
Anyone planning on testing his principles for consistency?

I thought this was a little humorous -
In the title I say "Basics". So lets look at roulette basics.
You ONLY win - when you are betting on numbers that show above expectation.
It's that simple.
Even a number that shows once per 38 spins (american wheel) each cycle of spins - won't win
long term because the payout doesn't equal the odds of winning (house edge).
Therefore, you can only win at this game by playing numbers and having those numbers
show above 1 std deviation. There's no other way to win using a system other than to
pick numbers that show and avoid numbers that don't.
It has to win flat betting - a progression just magnifies a loss in a bad system.
So - what exactly is there to test ?
It's like saying 2 plus 2 is 4 - and someone says "Does anyone think this is true ?"
I would hope everyone knows the basics of roulette - and knows the basics of math.
As I said to Turner "Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have."

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 01, 08:54 PM 2015
Be careful turbo. Most of the time people try to sabotage a method or strategy stating its a failure. Dont get dragged into it.

I have no intention of doing that.
In the other forum - Rev posted a RX code that plays the "hottest" number at all times - and yes, it fails. That's not what I explained to do in my example - and even playing the "hottest" single number can't surpass the house edge over more than 10,000 spins because of the math.
It would require a number to show above 3 std deviation or better - hence staying on one number "forever" ends in failure always. I'm sure the thinkers will understand what I meant in my posts and not look at a chart or "tests" from people who didn't follow through on it properly and throw in the towel.

I'm curious though - "it failed big time" means there was never a positive bankroll ?
(grins).

Quote from: TurboGenius on Dec 01, 09:01 PM 2015
I have no intention of doing that.
In the other forum - Rev posted a RX code that plays the "hottest" number at all times - and yes, it fails. That's not what I explained to do in my example - and even playing the "hottest" single number can't surpass the house edge over more than 10,000 spins because of the math.
It would require a number to show above 3 std deviation or better - hence staying on one number "forever" ends in failure always. I'm sure the thinkers will understand what I meant in my posts and not look at a chart or "tests" from people who didn't follow through on it properly and throw in the towel.

I'm curious though - "it failed big time" means there was never a positive bankroll ?
(grins).

He may even post a false graph with only a downward trend. Thats notorious for haters

I love your methods

Actually id love if u started a blog in the blog section and listed all your methods in different posts

Furthest back column and dozen and bet those 4 numbers is damn good

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 01, 09:03 PM 2015
Furthest back column and dozen and bet those 4 numbers is damn good

Lol - I admit that I play that at the casino a lot, takes little thought and work - good for when I have company and don't want to have to think much about what my bets are going to be.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Dec 01, 09:07 PM 2015
Lol - I admit that I play that at the casino a lot, takes little thought and work - good for when I have company and don't want to have to think much about what my bets are going to be.

Everytime i tested it, it worked

And it just makes sense

Never played live. 4 numbers isn't my style. Thats death to Mr Js ears but if i were to play a 4 number method this would definitely be it

I'm not a hater - I'm a truthseeker. I'll post the results tonight... 12 numbers, add 1 chip anytime one of those numbers wins, remove 1 chip from all 12 numbers after 37 spins x 2(or x3)?

I have been reading this and the "Random Thoughts" topic recently.
Priyanka seems to rely on triggers and virtual spins (albeit disguised as tiny 0.05 bets on Red). On the other hand...
Turbo and others in his camp believe triggers and virtual bets are a waste of time.

What Priyanka and Turbo seem to agree on is about concentrating on "current and future bets" - almost like a snooker player who plans 5 shots in advance.

My theory is that past spins affect future spins; I think that you can't use a trigger to predict where the ball will most likely land on the next spin - but perhaps we can predict where it will land the majority of the time over a *series* of spins. I plan to test if this is true or not.

You guys should also check out Priyanka's topic because she divides up bet types into conditional probability/random or maths/non-random, but I haven't yet figured out how they differ from each other in terms of affecting the outcomes, if at all.

Does past virtual spins affect future spins? Here's the 2 part test I devised to find out the answer:

1) Bet numbers 1-10 for 20 spins and note down the average number of wins after 148 sets.
Result: 5.43

2) Bet the oldest 10 numbers that haven't appeared for 20 spins and note down the average number of wins after 148 sets.
Result: 5.39

I guess that proves past spins indeed do not affect future results - contrary to my long held belief! So not sure why Priyanka has a tracking stage in her systems? Seems pointless.

Quote from: falkor2k15 on Dec 05, 08:59 PM 2015

I guess that proves past spins indeed do not affect future results - contrary to my long held belief! So not sure why Priyanka has a tracking stage in her systems? Seems pointless.

The only answer is in the present spin and future ones.

Consider past spins just a map from where you can make a decision what to bet in the next spins.
If you don t like or no need for *maps* , or think they are useless  just ignore them and bet whatever you bet.
Anyway i look for events that happened in the past and will happen in the future.
Example track 4 systems at the same time , each system  have 4 groups ( each group have 9 numbers ) , then
look for events that we know will come ( of course we don t know exactly when). One of this events are Distances
between the same group, look -take decision-bet .  All this can be done with 6 numbers systems/ groups also .

Example 9 numbers groups ( 4 systems):

Quote from: Kattila on Dec 06, 06:59 AM 2015
Consider past spins just a map from where you can make a decision what to bet in the next spins.

I've already covered this with the driving analogy.
Each spin is independent from the last.
If you have a car that drives in random directions - knowing where you "were"
and having a map for that matter - won't help you one bit in knowing where the
car goes next.
Even if you could look back and see the car turned right 4 times, it's "random".
There's no way to predict where the car is going to go using a map or studying
the path that you took to get where you are.
Once people can let this go, the focus can shift to other ways of playing that can work.
You can try to work out what "might" happen in future spins and the present one using
math - but looking at the last spin and through the history is a waste of time.
"trust me" I know what I'm talking about. lol

TG,
I  give  an example(above ) of one future event ( and it is ), so I chase Future Events,
and it s my own decision to look or not at past spins, even if many think is useless.
This is my way to work out what "might" happen in future spins.

In reply *70*  i give an example (it s a 9 numers bet ) where one distance , distance 3  shows in row 6 times
,( i forced distance 3 to show 6 times) i know it s like an *ilussion* but  w.t. hell its a v. good one.  Now from that
one i have v. big chances to win if i attack other(or others ) distance(s).  Thats all.

With regards to the driving analogy, there is one strange phenomena with the double streets that I noticed in Warriors' system and Priyanka's PP system. If Double Street 1 hits then it's most likely to hit again (repeat) in 6 spins. However, during the 5 spins in-between if repeats occur on double streets 2-6, i.e. DS 1 > DS 2 > DS 2 > DS 4 > DS 4 > DS 4, then that will most likely push a potential win on DS 1 to beyond the 6 spins; on the other hand if all the DSs are unique during those 5 spins, i.e. DS 1 > DS 2 > DS 3 > DS 4 > DS 5 > DS 6 then a win on DS 1 is more likely on the very next spin.

Here's the proof:
6set = set numbers that go beyond 6 spins (for working out calculations)
rep = repeat score based on DSs that have repeated before spin 7.
wrep = repeat running total up to spin 6 for sets that win on spin 7
lrep = repeat running total up to spin 6 for sets that win after spin 7.
lavg/wavg = averages for all the repeat scores (one for each types of wins)

(link:://s13.postimg.org/y5cykw9w7/image.png)

So if you look at Priyanka's system over at the "Random Thoughts" topic, she is attempting to hit the double street repeat early on - with added protection from betting the dozen or the EC that the expected DS falls within. However, once other DSs start repeating then she brings in extra cover from, say, betting Low + Dozen 3 since a win on the original DS is no longer expected early on.

I wanted to point out the obvious as well - but again it's probably something that no one wants to hear.

The casino doesn't do anything to help the gambler win.
They have the edge already but it's not enough, so they control every aspect of the gambler's
experience in whatever way magnifies that edge.
No clocks around so you don't notice how much time has passed.
Drinks - to loosen up that common sense part of the brain and make people want to take
more risk
Sounds - smells - lights - everything.....

And behold - the history box lit up right by the wheel with past spins showing.
Now seriously..... is the casino posting past spins in order to try to help the gambler
win ? If you believe this, please don't gamble.
It's there because it helps to promote betting - either by system players who use past spins
to determine where to bet, or innocent bystanders who might see "red red red red red red" and
decide that black just Has to show up soon.
It's there because it helps them win even more $ because people don't understand what
random is when it comes to this game.
One person might see a 'pattern' - someone else a 'trigger' - someone else might see something
they like and decide to start betting.. "Oh - this table has lots of repeaters", etc.

Please use common sense and understand that past spins don't matter in the slightest,
and the display board is simply another tool they use to get $ flowing from your pocket
to theirs.  :ooh:

Math beats a math game - Present spin and future spins win, the past spins don't hold a
single clue to help the player.
Notice how some now show lots of statistics - hottest numbers, coldest numbers, etc.
Do you think they would display this to the players if it helped the player to win
and for them as a casino to lose ?     think.  ^-^

Let's say I understand what not to do...
I still don't see in which direction should I look to be on a safe side?!

To try or not to try?
And what  :question:

By TG's definition the only way it would seem would be
VB or some way of predicting while the ball is in rotation.

So looking at my 2 different test results, it seems that past spins cannot tell us whether something is more likely to appear on the next spin, but they can tell us whether something is likely to be delayed?

Below is my result using present and future spins. (testing only)
My goal (I expected) was around $10,000.00 in 1,000 spins.
It was rough but made it.
In the chart I show what numbers I was playing and where they appeared
on the deviation chart.
Obviously to win you have to end up playing number that hit above average -
in this case I did - Granted I missed the 22,23, and 24 (etc) but got the top 3 and others
that were all above average - thus giving me the edge over the casino.
(Nothing is perfect when you have to predict or guess future events).

Quote from: TurboGenius on Dec 09, 06:25 PM 2015
Below is my result using present and future spins. (testing only)
My goal (I expected) was around $10,000.00 in 1,000 spins.
It was rough but made it.
In the chart I show what numbers I was playing and where they appeared
on the deviation chart.
Obviously to win you have to end up playing number that hit above average -
in this case I did - Granted I missed the 22,23, and 24 (etc) but got the top 3 and others
that were all above average - thus giving me the edge over the casino.
(Nothing is perfect when you have to predict or guess future events).

Hi TurboGenius

How did you decide which numbers were likely to hit above the average? Obviously the mean and standard deviation were calculated after your test, otherwise you'd be using past data in your selections, so what made you decide on those specific numbers? Or am I completely missing something?

Not worried about the past spins only interested in the 37 due.
So 26 comes, by 10th spin #30, 10 of the 37 due have hit, so bet the 27 due win,so 16,9,18,29,12 all win +55. Leave.

Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 11, 08:53 AM 2015
10 of the 37 due have hit, so bet the 27 due win

Ok, to me that seems like basing your decision on previous spins. I was hoping for an answer based on some markov chain probability calculation or something. 

its like turbo says  using present and future spins.

Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 11, 05:03 PM 2015
its like turbo says  using present and future spins.

For that to be true, the bet selection you explained has to be incorrect. If you're only looking at present and future spins, all numbers are unhit except the current number.

Anyway, if we're only looking at present and future spins, we can only know the current number, say the ball is sitting on 12. We only have two options, bet for 12 or against 12 (yes that includes EC and dozens/columns/streets). The wheel is telling us it's perfectly capable of hitting 12, beyond that is anyone's guess.

Edit
Deleted Falkor. An attack on Turbo just to stir shit up. Ive banned you for a week

Turner

Someone was attacking me ? Grins. I can handle it.

Quote from: Tacwell on Dec 12, 01:15 AM 2015
For that to be true, the bet selection you explained has to be incorrect. If you're only looking at present and future spins, all numbers are unhit except the current number.

"all numbers are unhit except the current number."
That's true.
It's also true that over the course of the future spins - numbers will show above average, others will show below average. If you pick randomly, then you end up with a bet selection of random numbers on that scale and eventually the house edge wins - because a number showing "at average" won't give you profit.
So the number that is showing when I sit down is going to be played. It doesn't mean that it's going to keep showing (if it doesn't, then I remove it from the list). I also add numbers as they
appear and remove others - when a number appears well above expected (and they do) then I profit nicely.
Now, someone who sits down and looks at the past spins won't be able to get any value from them. When (for example) #3 showed the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th time - I won on it each time.
I can point to the past spins to show what happened - but that won't help the new player
because #3 might not show up again for 200 spins. (and I won't be betting it either).
Like I said before - to someone who walks up part way through a session, it appears that I'm
using past spins to decide where to bet - but I'm not. I'm simply adjusting my bet selection based on what's happening right now - and what I expect to happen (if I'm right - and the test results show that it can be done quite accurately)

I think hot numbers (repeaters) are the KEY, I really do, however........every damn "what if" situation ends up happening (or can happen). The hot number(s) stops but silly me, I have no idea it stopped until most of my built up BR has been depleted. Point being, show me some method RULES for hot numbers and I'll post the OPPOSITE of what ends up happening.

This is the best.....you stopped betting on those couple hot numbers and guess what?

YEP YEP YEP YEP they start hitting again. Its a fu***n slap in the face.

Ken

Quote from: TurboGenius on Dec 12, 03:25 PM 2015

It's also true that over the course of the future spins - numbers will show above average, others will show below average. If you pick randomly, then you end up with a bet selection of random numbers on that scale and eventually the house edge wins - because a number showing "at average" won't give you profit.
So the number that is showing when I sit down is going to be played. It doesn't mean that it's going to keep showing (if it doesn't, then I remove it from the list). I also add numbers as they
appear and remove others - when a number appears well above expected (and they do) then I profit nicely.
Now, someone who sits down and looks at the past spins won't be able to get any value from them. When (for example) #3 showed the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th time - I won on it each time.
I can point to the past spins to show what happened - but that won't help the new player
because #3 might not show up again for 200 spins. (and I won't be betting it either).
Like I said before - to someone who walks up part way through a session, it appears that I'm
using past spins to decide where to bet - but I'm not. I'm simply adjusting my bet selection based on what's happening right now - and what I expect to happen (if I'm right - and the test results show that it can be done quite accurately)

Thanks for explaining, I get what you're doing now. Another question, are you calculating the mean and standard deviation as the session progresses, and maintaining your list according to that, or simply saying we expect a number once every 37 or 38 spins, so any appearing more than that stay on the list and any others are removed?

Can I add something to this? I sometimes do similar methods to this.

This stuff regarding a session being 37/38 spins......(lol) I just round it up to an even 40. It makes LITTLE difference and its much easier to keep track of things.

Ken

Mr J

Win or lose once you leave a table NEVER look back.


ND

Quote from: MrJ on Dec 13, 12:43 PM 2015
Can I add something to this? I sometimes do similar methods to this.

This stuff regarding a session being 37/38 spins......(lol) I just round it up to an even 40. It makes LITTLE difference and its much easier to keep track of things.

Ken

I suppose it depends on the method you're using, if you need to need to remove "cold" numbers from the your bet list after 37 spins for example, betting one uit a number, you'd end up betting 3 extra units for each number if waiting for 40. But for calculations where it makes no practical difference then yes I agree.

Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 11, 08:53 AM 2015
Not worried about the past spins only interested in the 37 due.
So 26 comes, by 10th spin #30, 10 of the 37 due have hit, so bet the 27 due win,so 16,9,18,29,12 all win +55. Leave.

Ladbrokes
32 comes  1 of the 37 gone
15
11
34
34
11
10
22
09
04        So 8 of the 37 due, leaves 29 to bet

31-9
17-10
16-11
30-12
35-13
14-14  be +57  and on cheating rng

Quote from: nottophammer on December 11, 2015, 01:53:27 PM

    Not worried about the past spins only interested in the 37 due.
    So 26 comes, by 10th spin #30, 10 of the 37 due have hit, so bet the 27 due win,so 16,9,18,29,12 all win +55. Leave.

Now if you Keep the Faith, BR  of say £4000.00 if you use £1.00 units

This is what happened today on Ladbrokes RNG,this is why have to use .20p unit

   #   #'s gone   to bet   progression   units out   return
1   9   1            
2   26   2            
3   21   3            
4   33   4            
5   32   5            
6   26   R            
7   22   6            
8   13   7            
9   27   8            
10   25   9   BET 28   1   28   
11   33   L   BET 28   2   56   72
12   1   10   BET 27   1   27   
13   9   L   BET 27   2   54   
14   13   L   BET 27   3   81   
15   9   L   BET 27   4   108   144
16   15   11   BET 26   3   78   
17   21   L   BET 26   4   104   
18   27   L   BET 26   5   130   180
19   31   12   BET 25   4   100   144
20   8   13   BET 24   3   72   108
21   16   14   BET 23   2   46   
22   33   L   BET 23   3   69   
23   16   L   BET 23   4   92   144
24   36   15   BET 22   3   66   108
25   30   16   BET 21   2   42   72
26   7   17   BET 20   1   20   36
27   12   18   BET 19   1   19   
28   27   L   BET 19   2   38   72
29   34   19   BET 18   1   18   
30   25   L   BET 18   2   36   72
31   19   20   BET 17   1   17   36
32   14   21   BET 16   1   16   
33   25   L   BET 16   2   32   72           out           in
34   35   22   BET 15   1   15   36         1364       1296
35   5   23   BET 14   1   14   
36   22   L   BET 14   2   28   
37   9   L   BET 14   3   42   
38   35   L   BET 14   4   56   
39   5   L   BET 14   5   70   
40   34   L   BET 14   10   140           Only got 14 of the possible 15
41   30   L   BET 14   15   210   540           out           in
42   11   24   BET 13   10   130   360          2054   2196   soon as a profit stop
43   3   25   BET 12   5   60   180          2114   2376
44   28   26              4      
45      0    27                    3         
46   2      28            
47    27            
48   23               
49   34               
50   17               
51   2               
52   9               
53   21               
54   19               
55   21               
56   28               
57                  
58                  
59                  
60                  

whether he's a genius or not, he might be on the wrong path

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 28, 10:40 PM 2015
Well, I wouldn't suggest that specifically - but close.
You could have a 2-5 split bet and 5 shows up - you remove 2 and then 2 shows up 10 times in the next 100 spins and 5 doesn't.
So instead - try this out..

(bear with me, I might sound insane) Nope perhaps just wrong choice of 12 numbers, might be better 1st 12 unique
Play all 12 numbers (I'll use dozen 1 since I always sit next to the wheel and the first dozen is
the easiest to reach from there.) 1 unit each.
Each time you have a win, add 1 unit to it - leave the others alone.
Do this for 2-3 (3 is better but 2 can be more playable) cycles of 38 spins.
(37 spins if you're using the Euro wheel - for my explanation I'm using my 38 slot wheel)
So (I'll use 2) cycles are over - remove 1 unit from each number.
Continue on for the next cycle - adding to the winners, after 38 remove 1 from each.
What this does is keep your bets on any number (in the section that you're playing) that
is hitting at or above 1 standard deviation.
It also keeps the total being bet on the table pretty level at all times.
There's no "out of control" progression - if anything it's a positive progression.
Say a number you're playing shows 9 times - you have quite a nice bankroll from that
number alone.
If a number gets hot and then starts now showing - you'll be removing bets from it and hence
in time it won't be played anymore. If a number stays hot and increases - you will have won
every single time it showed up since you're playing it from the start.
Is this perfect ? HELL no - but it's a start for your testing if you're interested in this.
Does it always win ?
Hmm.... I have yet to test it and not been in profit along the way.
I'll knock one out on RNG in RX and post the chart "whatever happens".
Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have.
Cheers

Look at the 12 unique in jackpot joy todays numbers, 12 unique by 15th spin, so 22 spins of the 37 spin cycle left.
22*12 = 264   12  unique repeat for 12 spins  12*36= 432.

Dont know if 1st look lucky

Dont know if 1st look lucky
Just thought i'd look at betting 1st 12 unique from jackpot joy 13.1.16.  12 unique at 13th spin, so 24 spins of the 37 spin cycle left.

Flat bet the 12*24=288,  8 wins 8*36=288  +£0.00.

If you do like Genius says put another chip on each time you hit, +£20.00

Replies 10,11,12 good replies.

Nothing due, Wrong, soon as you start to play theres 37 numbers due(euro).Like said to DD 37 buses, you need a time table.

Look at GUT, 37 numbers due, spin 1 is the past, as those 0x's become 1x's, then >1's, do you ignore them no,they maybe past spins but they are potential winners. Dare i say it " the trot"

Quote from: Priyanka on Nov 21, 09:15 AM 2015
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:   A good ole turbo post.

I couldn't tell if you were joking or not but it's random since you are trying to guess which number the ball will land on, even a coin toss is random BTW

In reference to my post in this thread about playing numbers that show and avoiding/removing ones that don't -
If you can use "wayback machine" to pull up VIP Lounge threads -  you'll see this discussed in detail
from 2007

link:s://web.archive.org/web/20070808051618/link:://gambling.projectsydney.com/viewtopic.php?t=5135

Damn, I miss that dancing panda avatar lol

turbo

as i study more i notice the benefit of repeaters

see two images i have attached that was last nights game i played, look at those things

i like the idea of just choosing one dozen

Rich

p.s. im off to airball in 40 minutes.....

Hey Rich, look even closer.

European Wheel.

Left Side

1,3,5,7,9 ROL
12,14,16,18 REL*********the triple 16
20,22,24,26,28 BEH********the triple 24
29,31,33,35 BOH

Talk about the right place at the right time. I would have made a killing.  >:D

cheers

It's always been interesting to me  :thumbsup:

The repeats last night were unreal

It resembled a pattern. Very weird

Several airball regular play for a repeat every other number

So

10
22
Now bet 10

Quote from: wiggy on Feb 13, 07:55 PM 2016
1,3,5,7,9 ROL
12,14,16,18 REL*********the triple 16
20,22,24,26,28 BEH********the triple 24
29,31,33,35 BOH
Talk about the right place at the right time. I would have made a killing.  >:D

Hi Wiggy, what do you see in that numbers that I don't see.

Nextyear,

14 consecutive spins on the scoreboard.

2
14
16
20
16
8
16
12
24
12
24
18
7
24

12 out of those 14 numbers are on the left side.
11 out of those 12 numbers belong to only two groups. 12,14,16,18 and 20,22,24,26,28.
The 12,14,16,18 group appeared a lot on alternate spins.

16
20
16  alternate
8
16 alternate
12
24
12 alternate
24
18 alternate

These are all little things that you can look out for in the grand scheme of things.

cheers

Thanks Wiggy, didn't connect that you watch numbers on scoreboard.

Thought that you got enlightened and understand secret code of the wheel.

Well, too bad...

Quote from: nextyear on Feb 14, 10:00 AM 2016

Thought that you got enlightened and understand secret code of the wheel.

Well, too bad...

Yeah, it's a real shame.  >:D

I am all ears for your advice Turbo. Your advice is

1. Not to wait for triggers
2. Not to do virtual bets
3. Not having specific triggers for win or stop loss in interest of long term.

Again, you see my problem is I know what not to do. But I dont know what to do. Any help will be taken very seriously.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 21, 09:09 PM 2015
The problem is that an event seems to be rare when it isn't. It's only how you see it.
If the spins come out #21, #21, #21, #21 - you could post the math showing this is a rare event.
BUT - it's exactly the same odds as seeing #21, #0, #13, #2 - which in your mind looks random and
not a rare event at all. So if you wait for #21, #21, #21 - the odds of the next spin being #21 is exactly the same as the next spin being #2 (from both examples). I hope this helps.
I understand that it takes a while to get to this point lol.
The hard thing to take in is that there is no such thing as a rare event in a game where each spin is independent from the last.

As i have been reading this post, I am getting questions in my mind and I hope you do not mind me asking them.

21, 21, 21, 21 - This is a number repeating 4 times.    a=b=c=d. Not many would have even seen this in their playing time.
21, 0, 13, 2 - This is first spin different from second, second different from third and third different from fourth. This event you see every day.  a<>B<>c<>d. How is then the first event not rare?

Why do you say there are no rare events when the above mentioned itself is a rare event in itself.

See :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ which is my attempt to make it simple.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 27, 10:41 AM 2015

I would suggest (if you're interested in following through with this) that you pick
numbers to play when you sit down (not based on what the last spin was) and then
use a positive progression (extremely limited of course) on any winning number that you
have being played in future spins. Also you'll have to remove numbers from your list
of played numbers if they fail to show at least once during a specific amount of time.
(Ken might like this type of bet selection as it changes due to what's happening 'now' and
doesn't break my rules on using past spins for reference)
In the other forum I showed how 13 people out of 38 (American wheel) all flat bet and won
over 1,000 spins (many more spins are possible of course) by just flat betting.
How many numbers should you start with to ensure that at least one of your played numbers
will be one of those 13 that show above standard deviation hence you win ?

Ok, far too many hints in the post lol.
Enjoy your tests if you pursue this.

This is really making me think. I am not able to get past this post. I know you mentioned there are far too many hints in the post. Do you think you will be able to explain this reply further. I have a starting point, but not sure where to go. I will be more than happy if you explain explicitly rather than throwing up another enigma.

A wise man once said (whoah, it was today even.. grins)
"the experienced players say the key points all the time and usually its ignored."

When people say - "if you know so much, why don't you post it" - all you have to do is look
at this (somewhat) popular thread.

I laid out just 3 of the very basic 'truths' - things to avoid when building a method.
Some agreed, some disagree - it doesn't matter much - the truth is the truth.
After the 4th, 5th page of the thread it wanders off into something else.
The people that agreed with what I said understand it - the others who don't agree
are still on their journey that some of us have already taken and you can't tell them that
they are wrong.
So there isn't much else to say - aside from posting the facts, and trying to aim people in
the right direction(s) of course. But trying to help people who don't agree is mostly a waste
of time. They have to learn on their own.
So I stepped back from the thread and let it drop down the list.
(and ironically as I'm typing this I see that there are new posts in it so I'll answer them once I post this).
My point being - even pointing people in the right direction won't help everyone, just the few.
The hot topics will always be how red/low hit so now bet 0,10-12 street and put a bet on high also.
Or wait for a trigger and then jump in because this is some signal of what is about to happen in a game based on "random". It is frustrating. It doesn't mean that those types of posts aren't worth anything, but people spending their time working on things like that just prolongs the time until they figure out how to win.
And it was mentioned that if anyone believed my 3 (then 4) basics as being true, then all there is left is "luck" and why bother. There's more left than luck. Luck doesn't exist. Math does though. Making random become predictable isn't 100% impossible either.

>>>>>>>See :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ which is my attempt to make it simple.
many thanks Steve. As you chose to post this here, I hope you dont mind a few discussions on this.

FACT: Previous spins do not affect future spins
Do you think it will be better reworded previous spins do no affect the next spin. Otherwise in some form or the other previous spins do have an impact on the future spins. I agree that previous spins do not change the odds of the next spin. However, if you are having 20 unique spins, then in the next 20 spins you will definitely see repeaters. Also, if you have seen 21 spinning 4 times, it is highly unlikely that you will see 21 spinning another 4 times. Lets not talk hypothetically. The spins have to adher to the statistical principles and for doing that you cannot separate previous spins from future spins.

FACT: You cannot use a “long term balance” - Good point. Agree.

FICTION: Changing Bet Size Helps You Win
Mindlessly changing bet size might not help. But let me take your roulette computer. You have an accuracy prediction of 80%. You are making 10 spins and none of those 10 spins has resulted in a win. If I trust the accuracy prediction, does it not make sense to make larger bets on the next 30 spins, so that i can take advantage of this situation?

FICTION: Bankroll Management Helps You Win - Absolutely agree.

FICTION: An eventual win helps you profit- Very nicely said.

FICTION: You Only Need a Short-Term Winning Strategy - Very nice right.

FICTION: Roulette has streaks you can use for advantage. - Again in the context of only next spin, yes this is a fiction. But if one thinks beyond that, then there is a deep rooted meaning there. It looks like something that is not completely true.

FICTION: A strategy that “lasts” for 20,000 spins is better than most systems - Understand. Very typical of the graphs from my testing. Even over 1 million spins, the next million may or may not win.

FICTION: A Strategy That Mostly Wins Is All You Need - haha.

FICTION: Waiting for a trigger to bet increases your chances of winning. This is where I disagree completely. However, I dont have a proof to show. So unless, I am able to formally write a proof, I will stay silent.

After this is where as I mentioned, I appreciate and comment for your clear cut ways and thinking around what should be done. I specifically like the idea of Cross-reference roulette system. How and where can I find more on this.

Quote from: Foolwise on Mar 25, 09:17 PM 2016
I am all ears for your advice Turbo. Your advice is

1. Not to wait for triggers
2. Not to do virtual bets
3. Not having specific triggers for win or stop loss

well said turbogenius i agree on these defo

follow these rules your on your way to a good method of play

I think that my next thread will be about how no one is looking in the right direction when it comes to testing and "those pretty charts" that make a system great or make it a failure.
I have bad news - Laughs. There is more coming that people won't believe is true.
One step closer though for others who want the answer to winning (always winning).

One thing that changed my direction was after a few chats with Number Six and with Iggiv.

The subject was that of personal permanence

Its very hard to imagine, but when you imagine it correctly, it makes a difference to how you play.

With personal permanence, you can only consider numbers that show when you have wagered on the carpet. So, you cant use marque numbers, or numbers that occurred when you take a break or are not at a roulette wheel ("a" roulette wheel, not THE roulette wheel)

People tend to think that normal distribution is in groups of numbers serially touching each other....like on a marque. But random numbers dont touch each other. They are totally independent and any 37 numbers from 37 roulette wheels will follow normal distribution.

Thinking that a group of sequential numbers from 1 wheel is what displays ND, and that way only, leads to illusions.

Illusions like tracking back to get a set of numbers, virtual spins, using past spins from the marque.

Betting ideas apart, this way of looking at random numbers frees you from illusions.

IMO  :thumbsup:

Quote from: TurboGenius on Mar 27, 09:38 AM 2016
I think that my next thread will be about how no one is looking in the right direction when it comes to testing and "those pretty charts" that make a system great or make it a failure.
I have bad news - Laughs. There is more coming that people won't believe is true.
One step closer though for others who want the answer to winning (always winning).

Always winning? I can only imagine that as seing the future... how you do that?

I am assuming no one wants to answer those questions. Very much expected, as either people dont want to tell how to play or people dont have anything to say on how to play. It is always easy to tell one how not to play, the difficult part is telling how to play I guess.

And by the way Turner, you have contradicted yourselves in the essay you have written. It is a complex world out there. One side you are talking about personal permeance and how the distribution between the spins are connected on the spins you wager and on the other side you are saying random numbers do not touch each other. If they do not touch each other how does it matter whether you wager them or you do not wager them. They will remain random and will not touch each other. Personal permeance is an illusion, just like the illusion of people who think numbers on the marquee or numbers they observe.
IMO :thumbsup:

Quote from: Foolwise on Mar 25, 09:56 PM 2016
FACT: Previous spins do not affect future spins
Do you think it will be better reworded previous spins do no affect the next spin. Otherwise in some form or the other previous spins do have an impact on the future spins. I agree that previous spins do not change the odds of the next spin. However, if you are having 20 unique spins, then in the next 20 spins you will definitely see repeaters. Also, if you have seen 21 spinning 4 times, it is highly unlikely that you will see 21 spinning another 4 times. Lets not talk hypothetically. The spins have to adher to the statistical principles and for doing that you cannot separate previous spins from future spins.

I pretty much stopped reading after this :)
As I said - past spins mean nothing to the next spin.
21 showing up 4 times in a row means.... the next spun number has a 1/37 or 1/38 chance of being another 21. This is fact. Regardless of how many 21's you see - the next spin still has the exact same odds of being 21 or any other number.
8 times in a row ? That would be incredibly rare to see - but it doesn't mean that after 4 in a row, the next spin has anything other than the normal chance of it being another 21. Or 5 in a row, or 7 in a row.
The only way to know is to wait until it's happened and then look back at it (useless) to know how many times in a row it showed. This has no value because it's the past.
So right from the beginning I see a problem with how you 'see things' - compared to fact and how things are.

If I go on -
"You have an accuracy prediction of 80%. You are making 10 spins and none of those 10 spins has resulted in a win. If I trust the accuracy prediction, does it not make sense to make larger bets on the next 30 spins, so that i can take advantage of this situation?"
That makes no sense. If you lose 10 in a row then I would say whatever device or strategy that you're using isn't very reliable. 10 losses in 10 spins isn't 80%, it's 0% accuracy so there is nothing to take advantage of. Why increase the bet size ?
The "holy grail" uses flat bets - or a progression that increases as you win (since you are going to continue to win) and therefore you can incrementally increase your bankroll.
Adding more to what you bet when you lose is terrible - you're losing for a reason... why keep adding to the bet as if something that doesn't work will somehow stop losing and end up working ?
Flat bet is the key - and a progression (positive) that lets you bet more and more as you win so there is a minimum bankroll to start with, and unlimited as you play on and win.

But anyway.

"Again, you see my problem is I know what not to do. But I dont know what to do."

All you have to do is know where you're going. The answers will come to you of their own accord. Earl Nightingale

Quote from: Foolwise on Mar 30, 09:26 AM 2016
I am assuming no one wants to answer those questions. Very much expected, as either people dont want to tell how to play or people dont have anything to say on how to play. It is always easy to tell one how not to play, the difficult part is telling how to play I guess.

And by the way Turner, you have contradicted yourselves in the essay you have written. It is a complex world out there. One side you are talking about personal permeance and how the distribution between the spins are connected on the spins you wager and on the other side you are saying random numbers do not touch each other. If they do not touch each other how does it matter whether you wager them or you do not wager them. They will remain random and will not touch each other. Personal permeance is an illusion, just like the illusion of people who think numbers on the marquee or numbers they observe.
IMO :thumbsup:

I have never told people how to play. I have told everyone to go read what Winkel has had to say.
Some will dis-agree to what he had to say.

How ever, what most people are looking for is an easy get rich method. That method does not exist.

>>>>>>I have never told people how to play. I have told everyone to go read what Winkel has had to say.
I have nothing against you Azim and people like Steve who exactly tell what to do. I get frustrated with a few characters in the forum who does nothing but post either what people are trying to explain are wrong or just post things that one should not do in roulette. Those characters never care to say what has to be done. This is not a go at you Turbo. You have published lots of methods in the past, you had a website with lot of methods, you owned a forum. When you have guided so many people by openly publishing things, why hold information now. It is your personal preference and I respect that, but my point still remains valid that there are people who always say not to do that, not to do this. Very easy. Why not those people tell what to do?

>>>>>How ever, what most people are looking for is an easy get rich method. That method does not exist.
No doubts.

Sorry Foowise,

But the facts can be a tough pill to swallow.

(link:://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1858419.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/Woman-taking-medication.jpg)

@General sir...your pic is gonna make me have an accident.

Ken

>>>>>>>>>>>>As I said - past spins mean nothing to the next spin.
You have understood me completely wrong. I do not have anything against the above.

>>>>>>>>>>>>21 showing up 4 times in a row means.... the next spun number has a 1/37 or 1/38 chance of being another 21. This is fact. Regardless of how many 21's you see - the next spin still has the exact same odds of being 21 or any other number.
I also do not have anything against this.

>>>>>>>>>>>8 times in a row ? That would be incredibly rare to see - but it doesn't mean that after 4 in a row, the next spin has anything other than the normal chance of it being another 21. Or 5 in a row, or 7 in a row.
Completely agree with you.

>>>>>>>>>>>The only way to know is to wait until it's happened and then look back at it (useless) to know how many times in a row it showed. This has no value because it's the past.
This is the part I disagree. If you start from spin 1 and chose a bet selection that says I will play against next 4 spins being 21 spins, my probability of seeing that 4 21s in a row increases with every 21 that is turning up on the board. What started as a future spin when i started in the first spin, has become past spin when I have come to spin number 3. So I did not have to wait until this has happened, I started with that bet selection. All what I have written above are facts. This is how things are. Or am I saying and thinking something that is completely wrong.

>>>>>>>>>If I go on -
"You have an accuracy prediction of 80%. You are making 10 spins and none of those 10 spins has resulted in a win. If I trust the accuracy prediction, does it not make sense to make larger bets on the next 30 spins, so that i can take advantage of this situation?"
That makes no sense. If you lose 10 in a row then I would say whatever device or strategy that you're using isn't very reliable. 10 losses in 10 spins isn't 80%, it's 0% accuracy so there is nothing to take advantage of.
When one says the accuracy prediction is 80% it can mean 1 selection going wrong in 5 spins, 2 going wrong in 10 spins or 20 going wrong in 80 spins. 20 going wrong in 80 spins can mean that the 20 losses can happen anywhere. All 20 can happen at the start of the sequence as well. If all 20 happens at the start is it 0% accuracy, yes for the first 20 spins, but the definition depends on what one meant 80% accuracy. I was trying to drive a point that there is a tipping point. Beyond the tipping point, if one uses a progression, why should i call i progression. It is similar to card counting and making a bigger stake when the count is favourable.

Foolwise,

Do you understand how the quote function works?  If you can use it in the future then it will help your posts.

My God, thats the way I use to do it.

Ken

Quote from: The General on Mar 30, 08:33 PM 2016
Foolwise,
Do you understand how the quote function works?  If you can use it in the future then it will help your posts.

It is easier to use the quote function for this reply. Not so easier for the earlier one with multiple references.

>>>>>>>>But the facts can be a tough pill to swallow.
That is my argument as well.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Mar 27, 09:38 AM 2016
I think that my next thread will be about how no one is looking in the right direction when it comes to testing and "those pretty charts" that make a system great or make it a failure.
I have bad news - Laughs. There is more coming that people won't believe is true.
One step closer though for others who want the answer to winning (always winning).

Looking forward to this. I am a very big fan of yours and lost interest in forums when you left us in limbo after starting math beat math thread. I think you were busy counting your winnings with math beat math game that you forgot us poor souls. I am glad you are back and now you are igniting my interests in the game with your posts. Keep it coming genius. We are all ears.

The end conclusion is not complicated. Its simple.

You need to increase accuracy of predictions. You need better than random accuracy bet selection. You need to improve your odds of winning.

It is done by correlating real and tangible variables and the spin outcomes. Also known as using common sense, to understand why the ball may land in one area instead of another.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 11, 06:43 AM 2016
to understand why the ball may land in one area instead of another.

I think genius is talking about math beat math game and not why ball will land in one area. I think Steve you both are talking two different paths to get to the same goal of increasing accuracy. I am more interested in the math part.

And there are numerous ways to increase accuracy of predictions. Visual ballistics, roulette computers and bias are the most obvious. All the roulette AP methods are based on these same basic principles. What makes one better than another is more accurate modelling, which leads to faster adaption to changing conditions, and ultimately more accurate predictions.

But the problem, for most players, is that they dont even understand basic fundamental facts about roulette. Like what the house edge is, and how 10 reds in a row or changing bet size doesnt change odds. If you dont understand it yet, you need to start with the basics.

KTFP, there is no difference between maths and physics. They are the same thing. Its like saying "harmonic sound and music are different".

when people say you can beat roulette with math, they usually mean with statistics. if statistical calculations are done right, then you eventually come to the same conclusions i stated above.

There is no physics without math and vice versa. Physics is more the understanding, and math is more the proof. Without physics, you just have meaningless sums. You cannot separate the two though.

I stand corrected. My reference was to either identifying bias/VB and seeing roulette as a physical entity, as opposed to seeing the outcomes as a stream of numbers. Your comments were directed towards the former and I was looking from the genius on the latter. 

Quote from: Steve on Apr 11, 06:53 AM 2016
KTFP, there is no difference between maths and physics. They are the same thing.

Anyone who would like to comment on this. That is quite a big thing to say.

Nice to see TG still active on the forums. One thing bothers me though (actually, more than one, but for now, let's call it one): how can "math beat a math game" when the math of the game says the game can't be beat?

Math is math. And a theorem, once proved, can't be unproved. Turbo said so himself, so it must be true  ;D

Unless we're talking about "hidden math". Where's Wendell when you need him?

Quote from: Bliss on Apr 11, 11:26 AM 2016


Unless we're talking about "hidden math". Where's Wendell when you need him?

LOL!!

i want Wendal and his alternate dimensions back also

Tomla,


If you mean Wendell from GG ?    Then  ROFLMAO.   This cat was a candidate for the cuckoo`s nest.

Alternate dimensions do exist....scientists know this. Paralel universes etcetra

We are talking over a 12 dimensional universe

yup tamino-same guy---he was iceman something here
I talked to him on phone one time ---(and then they led him away for sedation lol)

Quote from: Bliss on Apr 11, 11:26 AM 2016
Nice to see TG still active on the forums. One thing bothers me though (actually, more than one, but for now, let's call it one): how can "math beat a math game" when the math of the game says the game can't be beat?

Math is math. And a theorem, once proved, can't be unproved. Turbo said so himself, so it must be true  ;D

Unless we're talking about "hidden math". Where's Wendell when you need him?

Nice to see you too.
Wendell ? Yikes. I had pushed that name out of my memory. Laughs
The "hidden math" topic went on for way too long back in those days

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 28, 10:40 PM 2015
Well, I wouldn't suggest that specifically - but close.
You could have a 2-5 split bet and 5 shows up - you remove 2 and then 2 shows up 10 times in the next 100 spins and 5 doesn't.
So instead - try this out..

(bear with me, I might sound insane)
Play all 12 numbers (I'll use dozen 1 since I always sit next to the wheel and the first dozen is
the easiest to reach from there.) 1 unit each.
Each time you have a win, add 1 unit to it - leave the others alone.
Do this for 2-3 (3 is better but 2 can be more playable) cycles of 38 spins.
(37 spins if you're using the Euro wheel - for my explanation I'm using my 38 slot wheel)
So (I'll use 2) cycles are over - remove 1 unit from each number.
Continue on for the next cycle - adding to the winners, after 38 remove 1 from each.
What this does is keep your bets on any number (in the section that you're playing) that
is hitting at or above 1 standard deviation.
It also keeps the total being bet on the table pretty level at all times.
There's no "out of control" progression - if anything it's a positive progression.
Say a number you're playing shows 9 times - you have quite a nice bankroll from that
number alone.
If a number gets hot and then starts now showing - you'll be removing bets from it and hence
in time it won't be played anymore. If a number stays hot and increases - you will have won
every single time it showed up since you're playing it from the start.
Is this perfect ? HELL no - but it's a start for your testing if you're interested in this.
Does it always win ?
Hmm.... I have yet to test it and not been in profit along the way.
I'll knock one out on RNG in RX and post the chart "whatever happens".
Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have.
Cheers

Color me intrigued.  I still think this is using "past" spins but I'm going to play this 2 ways:

12# Pinwheel, 3 cycles.  Nothing wrong with the dozen but like the idea of even distribution around the wheel.

9# Nuke Quad of choice, 4 cycles.

We'll see what happens.

Quote from: 3Nine on Apr 17, 08:14 AM 2016
Color me intrigued.  I still think this is using "past" spins but I'm going to play this 2 ways:

It's actually not - when you sit at the wheel and start you're not looking at any past spins or history.
The only 'past spins' are the ones that you played and contained in your playing history - you don't use what's already happened before you started playing to decide what to do.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Apr 17, 08:34 AM 2016
It's actually not - when you sit at the wheel and start you're not looking at any past spins or history.
The only 'past spins' are the ones that you played and contained in your playing history - you don't use what's already happened before you started playing to decide what to do.

I agree, but once you reduce your selection or increase your bets you're doing this based on past results, right?  Also, isn't thinking in terms of cycles a glorified stop loss?  Or, do you just get up and go whenever?  Just thinking out loud here before the coffee kicks in. 

Quote from: 3Nine on Apr 17, 09:07 AM 2016
I agree, but once you reduce your selection or increase your bets you're doing this based on past results, right?  Also, isn't thinking in terms of cycles a glorified stop loss?  Or, do you just get up and go whenever?  Just thinking out loud here before the coffee kicks in.

"eh it's one of those things I suppose it's how you look at it.
The numbers coming in while you're playing can be looked at as past spins once they happen.
My definition for the sake of "past spins have no value" is meant to mean when you sit down and start playing your session. Looking at the past results before you started won't change a thing when it comes to whatever you choose to play currently. Of course if I'm standing there watching you bet - I'm seeing you betting on results from past spins - but if I sit down and start using your past spins info, it won't help me win.
A stop-loss to me is something people work into systems/methods that is strict -
When you reach 'x' - stop. Or when you are down 'x' - stop, or when 'x' happens, do 'y'.
None of those make a difference in the math of the game. RX and people who program sessions
in code can tell you that putting in all of these variables results in the exact same result as not using them.
If you do something that always gets you into a profit situation for the session - then stop.
It's not about stopping when 'x' happens in order to avoid going negative, it's about stopping when
you are in profit. This concept only works when you have something that will always place you into profit. If you have a session from hell and pull out - then stop... someone else might have had a stop-loss point during your drawdown and they would never had pulled out from it.
When your in the positive - you can choose when to stop. For whatever reason you want - it won't matter because you're ahead and not digging out from a hole or trying to stop yourself from losing some pre-determined amount of units.
(link:s://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53001115.jpg)

I think wayyyyy too much time is being spent on something that doesnt even matter

If the method works and wins money who the hell cares if you use recent spins OR if you just sit down and pay no mind to recent spins

Geez

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 17, 11:09 AM 2016
I think wayyyyy too much time is being spent on something that doesnt even matter

But it does - because EVERY method that has ever been tested that uses past spins for reference has failed. Therefore going down that road is the true waste of time.

Interesting in regards to the definition, I will say that. Makes me think a bit more. (hears echo in head)

I have a great 3 number method that uses nothing from the history board but per session, whatever is happening in the NOW, is what my method is based off of. So could we say, during a session, no numbers are past numbers? In other words, I really dont care what happened an hour ago.

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Apr 17, 12:16 PM 2016
Interesting in regards to the definition, I will say that. Makes me think a bit more. (hears echo in head)

I have a great 3 number method that uses nothing from the history board but per session, whatever is happening in the NOW, is what my method is based off of. So could we say, during a session, no numbers are past numbers? In other words, I really dont care what happened an hour ago.

Ken

I would say that anything that happened before you started placing bets means nothing.
What happened while you were playing and betting - is the now - your session of play. What happened before that isn't relevant or useful to deciding how to play when you start.
I know people don't agree - hence the name of the thread :)
But eventually everyone will agree, they just need to find out for themselves.

Off to the casino, later fellas!!!

Ken

Quote from: MrJ on Apr 17, 12:30 PM 2016
Off to the casino, later fellas!!!

Ken

I'd say "good luck" but luck is a made up 'thing'. So I'll just say "Use your talents and win !"

>>>>>>>>But the facts can be a tough pill to swallow.
>>>>>>>>That is my argument as well.

How is predicting the future going? How is ignoring the past going?  It is easy to say what not to do. It is tougher to show or say what to do. Whatever you are preaching, I am guessing is all leading to and no different than someone who play with triggers or based on past spins. Sometimes fact can be a tough pill to swallow. Completely sold on this one. There is nothing like playing based on future, present and past, its all the same old wine in a new bottle.

Another fact which might be a tough pill to swallow. People think increasing the bet unit sizes on winning is a better proposition compared to increasing them while losing. Welcome to the future. It is all the same cr*p. Unless you have an advantage in your selection, however you might twist and turn your money, it makes no difference whether you are increasing on winning or increasing on losing. I could go on and on. But the toughest part is showing what to do and not what not to do.

Quote from: Foolwise on May 03, 08:24 AM 2016
>>>>>>>>But the facts can be a tough pill to swallow.
>>>>>>>>That is my argument as well.

How is predicting the future going? How is ignoring the past going?  It is easy to say what not to do. It is tougher to show or say what to do. Whatever you are preaching, I am guessing is all leading to and no different than someone who play with triggers or based on past spins. Sometimes fact can be a tough pill to swallow. Completely sold on this one. There is nothing like playing based on future, present and past, its all the same old wine in a new bottle.

Another fact which might be a tough pill to swallow. People think increasing the bet unit sizes on winning is a better proposition compared to increasing them while losing. Welcome to the future. It is all the same cr*p. Unless you have an advantage in your selection, however you might twist and turn your money, it makes no difference whether you are increasing on winning or increasing on losing. I could go on and on. But the toughest part is showing what to do and not what not to do.

One chases losses, the other doesn't.  Choose wisely.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One chases losses, the other doesn't.  Choose wisely.
No one is chasing losses. If there is a loss, is there a written rule that it will be followed by losses. similary, if there is a win, is there a rule somewhere that says that it will be followed by wins.

Depending on what transpires when you are playing, one method might lose faster than the other. There is no guarantee that increasing on losses will lose faster than increasing on wins. At the end of the day, the hard truth is both of them fail unless you increase the accuracy of your bets. And if you are able to increase the accuracy of bets, it does not matter which one you are using.

Quote from: Foolwise on May 03, 08:43 AM 2016
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One chases losses, the other doesn't.  Choose wisely.
No one is chasing losses. If there is a loss, is there a written rule that it will be followed by losses. similary, if there is a win, is there a rule somewhere that says that it will be followed by wins.

Depending on what transpires when you are playing, one method might lose faster than the other. There is no guarantee that increasing on losses will lose faster than increasing on wins. At the end of the day, the hard truth is both of them fail unless you increase the accuracy of your bets. And if you are able to increase the accuracy of bets, it does not matter which one you are using.

Ok, cool.  My bankroll disagrees. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>Ok, cool.  My bankroll disagrees.
Good for you. One lucky soul.

If past spins have no value then does that mean virtual spins also have no value? If you look at how Priyanka plays over in the "Random Thoughts" topic she always waits for virtual spins before attacking; she seemingly has no system where she can bet every spin.

QuoteIf past spins have no value then does that mean virtual spins also have no value? If you look at how Priyanka plays over in the "Random Thoughts" topic she always waits for virtual spins before attacking; she seemingly has no system where she can bet every spin.

Do virtual spins reduce the number of pockets that remain on the wheel from one spin to the next? 

Answer:  Of course not.

Virtual spins are a fool's folly.   Virtual bets leave the players mind trapped in the box that is the gambler's fallacy.

Quote from: falkor2k15 on May 03, 10:24 AM 2016If past spins have no value then does that mean virtual spins also have no value?

Correct

Quote from: The General on May 03, 10:55 AM 2016Virtual spins are a fool's folly.   Virtual bets leave the players mind trapped in the box that is the gambler's fallacy.

Correct

I think it's time to take a break from forums (again) and return at some point (maybe in the not-too-distant future).

When I log in and all I see in nonsense and absurdity it's probably time to take a break. lol
I leave you to your 80 page threads and following the nonsense of "professors" and "prophets" while throwing rocks
at the people who could show you the way. It's a waste of my time (again).
My email is always available, feel free to use it. Sometimes it takes a while for me to reply but if you're annoying me enough - I'll get back to you. - Or, see you in AC - I'm the guy sitting in the first seat by the wheel with (more than likely) the most chips
stacked in-front of me, but trust me - it's all luck, I have no idea what I'm talking about.  :thumbsup:
Cheers

(link:://i.makeagif.com/media/4-12-2015/pjr_Ux.gif)

adios Turbo---happy trails to you

Quote from: TurboGenius on Jun 07, 09:20 PM 2016
I think it's time to take a break from forums (again) and return at some point (maybe in the not-too-distant future).

When I log in and all I see in nonsense and absurdity it's probably time to take a break. lol
I leave you to your 80 page threads and following the nonsense of "professors" and "prophets" while throwing rocks
at the people who could show you the way. It's a waste of my time (again).
My email is always available, feel free to use it. Sometimes it takes a while for me to reply but if you're annoying me enough - I'll get back to you. - Or, see you in AC - I'm the guy sitting in the first seat by the wheel with (more than likely) the most chips
stacked in-front of me, but trust me - it's all luck, I have no idea what I'm talking about.  :thumbsup:
Cheers

(link:://i.makeagif.com/media/4-12-2015/pjr_Ux.gif)

Sorry to hear that. I for one was following everything you published. I thought you trying to teach us...but of course your clues are vague and not clear. So that's why people have no idea what you try to tell us.

About professor etc...we need to respect each and all of us who try help to beat this game.

About the guy with the most chips. I think that would be Pryanka. He is just a level to high for all of us.

And I've tried some of your logics with betting what's happening  (hot? )....still not sure how you play ... but you use a positive progression right? 1-6 numbers ?
Im trying to bet the 2hits nrs ....so far I'm won more than I lost....anyway its a work in progress.

Take care TG....hopefully see you at the tables here too....I wanna see you beat that 1,0....average.

Turbo,

I know how you feel.  The infection of ignorance is severe.  Too many minds are trapped in foolish nonsense like the law of the third crap.

Quote from: The General on Jun 08, 01:07 AM 2016
Turbo,

I know how you feel.  The infection of ignorance is severe.  Too many minds are trapped in foolish nonsense like the law of the third crap.

General. ....

Just start a thread where you explain how to bet....instead of giving vague directions
...don't get me wrong here but anybody can give vague advice. Even one whom never played a spin in his life. At least your results aren't to bad at the tables here. So you must be doing something good or just luck.

(I noticed how most long time members having 0,9 or less)

As Turbo said all doesn't work. ...so for me I think..ok you got my attention. ...I'm listening. ..but nothing comes out
..just vague advice....

Try to do better and people will listen you for sure.

Denz

I given detailed enough info. 

Quote from: The General on Jun 08, 01:50 AM 2016
I given detailed enough info.

I rest my case.....

As you should.

As I want ...

Hey Turbo, in my topic Real roulette spins from electronic roulette I will try on screenshots to explain something interesting soon, keep watching :)

Quote from: The General on Jun 08, 01:07 AM 2016
Turbo,

I know how you feel.  The infection of ignorance is severe.  Too many minds are trapped in foolish nonsense like the law of the third crap.

Foolish peasents everywhere!!

EXODUS  !






O yes another one oif those brief  , brash  and direct comments  by Nathan Detroit

Quote from: TurboGenius on Jun 07, 09:20 PM 2016
I think it's time to take a break from forums (again) and return at some point (maybe in the not-too-distant future).

Sorry to hear it.   :(

Don't stay away too long.

Quote from: TurboGenius on Nov 28, 10:40 PM 2015
Play all 12 numbers (I'll use dozen 1 since I always sit next to the wheel and the first dozen is
the easiest to reach from there.) 1 unit each.
Each time you have a win, add 1 unit to it - leave the others alone.
Do this for 3 cycles of 38 spins.
(37 spins if you're using the Euro wheel )
So our 3 cycles are over - remove 1 unit from each number.
Continue on for the next cycle - adding to the winners, after 38 remove 1 from each.
What this does is keep your bets on any number (in the section that you're playing) that
is hitting at or above 1 standard deviation.
It also keeps the total being bet on the table pretty level at all times.
There's no "out of control" progression - if anything it's a positive progression.
Say a number you're playing shows 9 times - you have quite a nice bankroll from that
number alone.
If a number gets cold - you'll be removing bets from it and hence
in time it won't be played anymore. If a number stays hot and increases - you will have won
every single time it showed up since you're playing it from the start.
Is this perfect ?
Does it always win ?
Hmm.... I have yet to test it and not been in profit along the way.
Hope it's a better 'hint' and you can build on it as I have.
Cheers

Might wanna take a look at this  :)

Yeah and when the top 12 of the mat are misssing, its a big hole your digging

Den
went to the recycling centre on way back Corals then paddy power under 30 minutes +66 units, just watching the trot. Paddy showing the zero missed for 33 spins and still not in, the hot number and cold number shite is there to encourage you to play that shite

Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 28, 12:06 PM 2016
Yeah and when the top 12 of the mat are misssing, its a big hole your digging

True....very true.....

But what if you select another 12 numbers  for some reason?   ;) ( or 7ish)

The sheet in reply 204
RD's devil street system, if play repeat would win

Quote from: denzie on Dec 28, 12:20 PM 2016But what if you select another 12 numbers  for some reason?   ;) ( or 7ish)

Yes everyone will have a way of selecting there bet.
Every member should read all posts as there might be some info of use.The selection for 7ish i would like to see, 12 numbers various ways to select, 1st 12 unique been looked at, last 12 non-hit from the starting 37 non-hit, single dozen, just a few.

A great bet is RD's Devil street system, 2 spins, if no zero or no double symbol, then the decision is to be made, do you bet repeat or for change? simple as that, but there's always a but.

My but, might come from using RNG, but it shows the LOTT is present, but thinks variably end up going south. Like granps, MMSIP, 147, sectors, just seem to head south.

The only thing that holds is just watching the trot. Thanks to GUT and all my recording of my RNG spins, i'll blow my own trumpet here, i'm finally on the right path.

what is basics that no one wants to hear....i wanna hear it but seems that no one explains it

Want the basics?  Here you go:  if you need a progression then you do not have a winning method.

Quote from: 3Nine on Dec 29, 01:54 PM 2016
Want the basics?  Here you go:  if you need a progression then you do not have a winning method.

CAN YOU BACK THAT STATEMENT UP.

Example
Konfused showed if you play every crossing you'd lose, the HE. But the question is you could not play every crossing, you personally would not be there,to play them.
So who's to say if you lost a crossing and noted the losing crossing next time you meet it at the same point you could not double the units and win.
You dont know if the crossing was supposed to win and being in the right place at the right time you'd win.
It's the same old maths shite, you can't win. Is that because you personally can't win, so i can't win.

Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 29, 02:08 PM 2016CAN YOU BACK THAT STATEMENT UP.

100%

well we'll see your post.

i'll see it later the darts are starting  :thumbsup:

Quote from: 3Nine on Dec 29, 01:54 PM 2016
Want the basics?  Here you go:  if you need a progression then you do not have a winning method.

Yep. ... that's what I used to say and think ... :thumbsup:

One more thing : there's not one system/strategy/method that can win played flat. Not one. Not even a half. (No vb/ap)

Quote from: denzie on Dec 29, 02:34 PM 2016One more thing : there's not one system/strategy/method that can win played flat. Not one. Not even a half. (No vb/ap)

If you say so...

thanks for the basics being explained...oh and one more thing how do you know if system lose when we as players limit the spins...say you bet 1 number and after 1000000000000000 or so spins you are< ->so and so  and you stop then you lose,,,, but what if next spin hits and just out of blue you did bet so much to bring you in profit...in other words you never can say if system is losing or wining

Maestro. ..

If you can play a system all day , week , years and it keeps winning and winning than it a keeper.

No waiting or huge bets to get back in profit. It just can't work.

If there was no betting limit then no progression system would lose. But that's not reality.

And trying to ride out losing streaks and variance doesn't work either because you still rely on luck.

TG is right, and there must be a lot of one handed texters out there suspending facts!

Quote from: denzie on Dec 29, 05:01 PM 2016
Maestro. ..

If you can play a system all day , week , years and it keeps winning and winning than it a keeper.

No waiting or huge bets to get back in profit. It just can't work.

400 games be complete soon and the flat bet, bet, will let you know