Hi everyone,
I have few questions here n hoping someone can answer them.
First, is it true that single color will appear double than two consecutive color n two consecutive color is double than three consecutive color in the long run n so on? Like brbrbr is double than bbrrbb in the long run.
Second, if roulette do not have memory of the last spin then how can the result let say 1k spins balance out? For example 525 red n 475 black? Why cant it be 750 red n 250 black since its random n do not have memory.
Last, may i know what is ur favor system, money mangement n bet selection that u r using now? Thanks.
Sorry for my bad english, looking forward to ur answers, TQVM.
If you have 750 reds and 250 blacks then wheel have bias, so the casino will change with new one, they are not fools.
Well its just distribution which is maths....but according to experts here...roulette has nothing to do with maths so it may be Faries who magic them level with their tiny little magic wand
Quote from: Turner on Mar 22, 06:47 AM 2016
roulette has nothing to do with maths
:lol:
Math has something to do with roulette, but nothing it has to offer which will make one beat the roulette. Not to play with words, but that is the truth. Truth is only true to the extend that I have knowledge about. Until the point someone comes forward with a way to beat roulette with math, math is not useful for roulette.
I see that no one has answered Goldrosen's questions though.
>>>>First, is it true that single color will appear double than two consecutive color n two consecutive color is double than three consecutive color in the long run n so on? Like brbrbr is double than bbrrbb in the long run.
It is not that single color
will appear double than two consecutive color.
Chances are that single color will appear double than two consecutive color.
>>>>Second, if roulette do not have memory of the last spin then how can the result let say 1k spins balance out? For example 525 red n 475 black? Why cant it be 750 red n 250 black since its random n do not have memory.
It can be 750 red and 250 black. Quite possible. However the chances of seeing them are rarer than 525 red and 475 black. Taking larger numbers will make it difficult to understand.
Take smaller numbers. 4 spins. 3 reds and 1 black vs 2 reds and 2 blacks. 4 times vs 6 times. Chances of seeing 3 reds and 1 black is rarer than 2 reds and 2 blacks.
Expand this to 10 spins. Chances of 10 reds in a row is closer to 1 in 1000 trials and is rarer than chances of 5 reds and 5 blacks. That is because the combination of 5 reds and 5 blacks can come in a number of ways where as there is only one possible combination of 10 reds.
So the closer you get to the middle there are more combinations possible like 5 out of 10 spins 10 out of 20 and the further you get away from the middle lesser number of combinations possible and so it becomes rarer. Math guys will say that is distribution.
Expand this now to 1000 spins. The number of combinations multiplies to billions and billions, you would not want to know. When combinations are really huge, the rareness of 750 red and 250 black appearing is multiplied multiple folds when compared to 525 red and 475 blacks. So you dont see that combination because it is so so rare for it occur.
Next time when someone says after 10 reds bet black, do not dismiss it as a gambler's fallacy. As per math, we have seen a rarer situation than 9 reds and 1 black or 8 reds and 2 blacks and if it is a 1/1000th probability, you will not see ideally for the next 1000 trials. But if you did see that, just listen to the math guy who say that it was a 1 in 1 millionth probability.
Go to a table that offers you 0.1 bets in any of the online casinos. Play until you find 20 reds in a row or 20 blacks in a row. You have just witnessed a rare event. As soon as you have played through this rare event by placing 0.1 bets or for that matter even 1 unit bets, shift to a standard limit table and place 50$ on the outside bets and play for the opposite color after 10 spins of same color using a martingale progression for 300 trials. I bet you will earn really nice.
The fact and truth remains the same, whether one likes it or not, it is fun to know maths, but it does not help one in beating roulette, like the way we want it to be.
Quote from: Foolwise on Mar 22, 05:54 PM 2016
The fact and truth remains the same, whether one likes it or not, it is fun to know maths, but it does not help one in beating roulette, like the way we want it to be.
So why do you like repeaters?
Then in the remaining 20 spins we should expect 5 non-hits and 15 repeaters. Why are we playing KTF on non-hits and not repeaters. Common sense says play for repeaters as we can expect repeaters 15 times and non-hits only 5 times.They repeat because of normal distribution....which I think is Maths lol
The average of non-hits in 30 spins is 15. We are starting to play after 10 spins of no repeats. Then in the remaining 20 spins we should expect 5 non-hits and 15 repeaters. Why are we playing KTF on non-hits and not repeaters. Common sense says play for repeaters as we can expect repeaters 15 times and non-hits only 5 times.
This was the complete sentence. Quoting it partially does not help. Notto's claim was 15 non-hits and 15 hits in 30 spins. My question was if he starts playing after 10 nonhits in 10 spins, then in the remaining 20 spins, we have got 5 nonhits and 15 repeaters. So why not play repeaters and not nonhits. It is not that i like repeaters here, it is just a clarification and he clarified that it is not next 20 spins, it is next 30 spins.
Secondly, I do not think it is normal distribution. There is a huge difference between average and normal distribution. Average definitely takes out extreme outliers where as normal distribution doesnt. "Normal" and "average" are often confused. What notto is taking here is an average and normal. Normal is always a range.
If you have been talking about repeaters in general, then again they are not normal distribution. They are more a practical example of a ladenprincipe. Martingale is a great form of roulette getting beaten with math. But is there any other principle based on math that defeats roulette? KTF is winning, which is a fact, if one believes in the testing that it is undergoing. But if you use plain math, it is easier to prove that KTF will fail. So does math help?
Ok...I am being a little faceious.
You have an observation...hence a theory...and you prove or disprove using maths.
1. I noticed 13 follows 31 more than normal. Maths proves it doesnt
2. Numbers repeat in a 37 cycle. Maths proves it does.
You can use maths to help you win at roulette.
I think goldrosen (remember him? Lol) will not object to this healthy discussion.
I ran about 500 000 cycles of 37 spins and came up with the following:
(Number on left is number of unique numbers and next number is how many times a spin cycle had exactly that many unique numbers in the test)
37 spin cycle:
15 1
16 12
17 202
18 1417
19 6020
20 18309
21 41304
22 73951
23 98780
24 102814
25 80164
26 47276
27 20934
28 6706
29 1685
30 349
31 35
32 5
This is the best piece of info for playing roulette.
Turner are you a politician putting a spin on KTF. KTF uses the 30 spins after the 1st 10 spins, its over 40 spins not 30 spins
Notto.....your observation is backed up by maths. Your numbers show a belle curve. So you know its a truth not an unproven observation. Thats my point.
Like I said....I was being facetious quoting foolwise but it still stands. An observation doesnt become theory until proven
Too many here think "its winning so it must be true*
Really sorry...locked the topic by mistake. Fat fingers on mobile phone
Really fat fingers. I see Denzie also now changed to notto ^-^
I really really hope that goldrosen do not mind a healthy conversation. :xd:
We both seem to agree on the fact that there are certain things that is a fact. At least I think, I am agreeing with you that this is a distribution. It is a pregnant lady standing up there with a bulge and when she lies down it shows a proper normal distribution with a mean that is slightly biased towards the lower side on the number of unique numbers.
What we dont seem to agree on is how does this help beat roulette. Show me a single instance where this kind of mathematical information has helped win in roulette.
Turner i agree to maths saying you wont win,but, there is a but. I play on the way home so theres a 24hour gap before i'm back at the FOBT, the mickey mouse roulette. Yes during the 24hrs maths is getting it right, but i'm not there.
Now when i turn up theres 37 #'s, now the 37 cycle comes into play, When do 1x's start to effect KTF, on a live wheel not often, mickey mouse roulette is a different ball game, i'm using a human beings take on a roulette wheel.
Its taken many years recording the FOBT and it gives on avg 15 point something non-hit in 30 spins not 20 spins.
Last night Dave comes in, real smart dressed bloke, sharp suit you know the type, but hes put £300 thru in minutes, like the daily mail keep on saying.
So Turner, 10 spins say no repeat, leaves 27 non-hit, now over time i've got to find the next 30 spins gives on average the 15 point something non-hit,okay. Now during those 30 spins Dave is playing his usual #'s plus say a few more for luck, so if Mickey FOBT gives 15 non-hit during the 30 spins it means 12 of the 27non-hit where never coming,whats to say Daves random numbers include those 12 that are not coming, £300 had gone thru and yes telling greg whos just came in yes i've won a bit i've got my £300 back.
I had 2 games 1 in ladbrokes and the other in corals, under an hour +£22 and some coin all successfull because of knowledge on how Mickey FOBT plays, but he don't always play the way maths says
Notto, have Greg brought his £300 with him?
And has Dave used foul language while playing?
Denzie to notto was a fat head not fatfingers :wink:
Hmmm....perhaps i mean this
I see 14 has hit twice so I think....it wont hit again soon....its more likely to be one that hasnt hit yet.
But if I look at the maths...say normal distribution and variance i can see repeats hit 3 and cold numbers can sleep for 800 spins.
The maths proves this.
Surely its better to have maths backup for your decisiions than saying I think this and I think that. Like 13 follows 31
and 17 by 20
Mr T
how will math help in my choice for playing finals.
Heres why todays Jackpot247.com #'s
jackpotjoy 23.3.16
1 18
2 31
3 20
4 19
5 17
6 17
7 27
8 7
9 34
10 0
11 28
12 21
13 13
14 36
15 3
16 14
17 22
18 6
19 0
20 18
21 30
22 31
23 6
24 25
25 10
26 6
27 4
28 14
29 30
30 25
31 7
32 26
33 21
34 17
35 33
36 9
37 8
38 21
39 25
40 11
41 29
42 32
43 31
44 23
45 13
46 9
47 14
48 23
49 2
50 17
51 5
52 13
53 27
54 1
55 33
56 10
57 5
58 33
59 11
60 23
61 9
62 31
63 29
64 18
65 5
66 11
67 30
spin5 17
spin6 17 one of Denzies doubles so see another in about 1000 spins
spin7 27
spin8 07 thats all final 7 in 4 spins.
Now if we find out what finals are missing in those 10 spins, finals 2,3,5,6 we have a 16 # bet. How does maths tell us to stake these 16#'s or how good a bet is betting these 16#'s.
As I said Turner I agree with you that everything has math behind it and it is better to know.
What I dont agree with is how is having math as a backup for your decisions help you win, when the math clearly says that Casino has a house edge. It also does not directly imply that the converse is true - Not having math behind your decisions will help you win. I think that was the sticky point and hope you agree now.
13 following 31, there is a math and physics element behind it. Math element in random number generators and physics element in roulette wheels. You will not find this relation in random numbers that are generated through atmospheric noise like random.org. The math element is on the fact that most of the RNG applies the principles of Lehmer random number generator to do it. And if you closely study how the modulus function works in Lehmer formula and given that an european rng will be a mod of 37 you will realise that why 13 following 31 is real. If you observe physics element of it, then you will find that over a very large set, the movement between two numbers in the wheel ranges between 9-11 numbers. It is to do with the spacing between the diamonds on the wheel and the way a human being pushes the ball. As these are the two common forms of playing roulette, there is where the 13 and 31 relation comes and ofcourse no fairies.
But the question still remains. This is all math. Does this help you win Roulette. NO. And notto, math doesnt say anything about 17 and 20 by the way.
But the plasterers on the FOBT which is rng say 17 's in get on 20 :thumbsup:
Now back to the finals ?
if we bet 16 L
32 L
48 W 96 out 108 back
Finish the 10 spins, what finals are missing, so its still 5 and 7,9 so a 10 # bet.
we bet 10 L
20 L
30 L
40 W and it final 5 #25 took final 5 24 spins
I'm off out, but spins 21-30 the finals are 50/50 so who do you bet? the math might help :twisted:
See Im bored. And this has been interesting. Look at the last time I posted 4 times in a post.
Thanks for your responses.
Anyhow....I like to see maths back up an idea...even if its very general
Cheers chaps
back,so math not saying which 50/50 to bet, well how about no bet wait 10 spins and see whos missing, missing in31-40 is 0,2,4 look back 2 missed for 23 spins 0,4 in 21-30, so we bet 12 #'s
bet 12 L
24W final 2
does zumma catch finals out?
Quote from: MumboJumbo on Mar 22, 06:33 AM 2016
If you have 750 reds and 250 blacks then wheel have bias, so the casino will change with new one, they are not fools.
Ye Gods and little fishes.................
Since red and black are interspersed around the wheel, how could the wheel have a bias? No, seriously! Is the spacing on the red numbers much wider than the spacing on the black. Like two inches vs 1/10 of an inch?? | | || This first is the red slot and the second is the black. Ever seen such a wheel?
So how do we achieve bias?
TwoCat
>>>>>>>>Since red and black are interspersed around the wheel, how could the wheel have a bias? No, seriously! Is the spacing on the red numbers much wider than the spacing on the black. Like two inches vs 1/10 of an inch?? | | || This first is the red slot and the second is the black. Ever seen such a wheel?
Ye. Twocatsam you have got the pencil, when the scientists are trying to figure out how to make a pen work in space. Love it.
Thanks! I expected to be flamed or some such....
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Mar 23, 10:36 AM 2016
Ye Gods and little fishes.................
Since red and black are interspersed around the wheel, how could the wheel have a bias? No, seriously! Is the spacing on the red numbers much wider than the spacing on the black. Like two inches vs 1/10 of an inch?? | | || This first is the red slot and the second is the black. Ever seen such a wheel?
So how do we achieve bias?
TwoCat
lol
Thanks for all your guys answers, although i don't understand much..its kind of complicated..MumboJumbo said casino will change the wheel if its happened but Foolwise said its quite possible that will happen, then the casino will changed the wheel if its really happened?..
I was thinking about this bet selection n that was the reason why I asked those questions..
Its like this, we record spins first let says 100 spins..then we might get result like 40 blacks and 58 reds (2 zeros)
Reference: link:://:.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/index.php?id=105&view=archiv# (most of the session result its almost balance for ECs like result example I gave above 40/58, but i dont understand why..since roulette do not have memory and i dont see 200 session with 150 reds and 50 blacks)
Then we start to bet on black but not every spin..the [trigger] is when red appeared ONCE and then we bet on black, this is hope to make red a single, BB[R]B<bet this black, since single color is most probably more than two three four n so on consecutive color.. if we lose then we stop and wait for another trigger and always place bet based on which color appeared to be the less ONLY..
In this bet selection we have two advantages I think? One is we know which color appeared to be less and we bet it to balance out, and two is we know or (I think) single color is more than follow/consecutive color..
Another advantage is we can use system let say like Labouchere that start with line 1(profit), if lose then 11(next bet 2), if win then restart.. or maybe Martingale?
I haven't try this out and its just an idea..n I thought the more spins we record the more accurate it is? I don't know..lol any comments on this? Thanks!
Quote from: Foolwise on Mar 23, 06:20 AM 2016
As I said Turner I agree with you that everything has math behind it and it is better to know.
What I dont agree with is how is having math as a backup for your decisions help you win, when the math clearly says that Casino has a house edge. It also does not directly imply that the converse is true - Not having math behind your decisions will help you win. I think that was the sticky point and hope you agree now.
13 following 31, there is a math and physics element behind it. Math element in random number generators and physics element in roulette wheels. You will not find this relation in random numbers that are generated through atmospheric noise like random.org. The math element is on the fact that most of the RNG applies the principles of Lehmer random number generator to do it. And if you closely study how the modulus function works in Lehmer formula and given that an european rng will be a mod of 37 you will realise that why 13 following 31 is real. If you observe physics element of it, then you will find that over a very large set, the movement between two numbers in the wheel ranges between 9-11 numbers. It is to do with the spacing between the diamonds on the wheel and the way a human being pushes the ball. As these are the two common forms of playing roulette, there is where the 13 and 31 relation comes and ofcourse no fairies.
But the question still remains. This is all math. Does this help you win Roulette. NO. And notto, math doesnt say anything about 17 and 20 by the way.
What about 23,32 or 12,21
Quote from: goldrosen on Mar 22, 05:31 AM 2016
Hi everyone,
I have few questions here n hoping someone can answer them.
First, is it true that single color will appear double than two consecutive color n two consecutive color is double than three consecutive color in the long run n so on? Like brbrbr is double than bbrrbb in the long run.
Second, if roulette do not have memory of the last spin then how can the result let say 1k spins balance out? For example 525 red n 475 black? Why cant it be 750 red n 250 black since its random n do not have memory.
Last, may i know what is ur favor system, money mangement n bet selection that u r using now? Thanks.
Sorry for my bad english, looking forward to ur answers, TQVM.
this is for NOTTO
if math is < 13 following 31 is real>,then how often happens is it better than 1/37 and if not what is difference than 3 follow 4 than 13,31 :question:
Quote from: maestro on Jan 10, 02:56 AM 2017
if math is < 13 following 31 is real>,then how often happens is it better than 1/37 and if not what is difference than 3 follow 4 than 13,31 :question:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=11293.msg99351#msg99351