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Hi Folks,

I don´t like to answer PM´s! Some of you may have noticed.

So please ask your questions HERE in public and you will get an answer.
(As I said sometimes ago: Pls no questions like: Can you explain it in 3 sentences? Or: Pls explain the basics!)

I will not comment any systems created by others even if they are "based on GUT".

When you think, that the clicker and discription sold by copier has anything to do with GUT: You are wrong!
I won´t give further comments to such Thefts.

br
winkel

How do we analyse the "trot"? And can a computer simulator be coded to do the same thing?

Falkor I´m sorry. As long as you don´t apologize I won´t answer your questions.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 06, 06:15 AM 2016
Falkor I´m sorry. As long as you don´t apologize I won´t answer your questions.

What was our quarrel about? I don't even recall... What did I say that offended you?

Dear Winkel,

I get stuck with your Lotto method...
Any hope to continue with that thread?
I understand everything that was said and was hoping to get it to the next level...

Also, about GUT - do we only look for crossings in first 50 spins, or is there a point to continue with spins...?

Thank you very much for coming to us again, as many of us are "new generation" and never get a chance for asking you!

Thank you for coming back  :thumbsup:
And not let others get you angry ....Coz they shoot with sharp around here


My first question ^^
You probably did a lot of testing and now real play. Can you say how much is the most repeaters you saw in a row ? ( if you would know between each crossing it would be even better).  Thank you

Quote from: denzie on Jun 06, 08:40 AM 2016
My first question
... Can you say how much is the most repeaters you saw in a row ? ( if you would know between each crossing it would be even better).  Thank you

Hi denzie,

First question I would ask: What would this information tell you?

It is absolutely possible to have 37 times the same number in 37 spins. You have always to be aware of this fact.

The second question: How would YOU fight this? Would you use a progression and bet on a new number or would you follow this streak?

The third question: At which point would do change your betting-mode? after the 3rd, 10th, 36th appearance of the same number?

Being in winning mode or losing mode: The same questions arise!

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 06, 07:07 AM 2016
Dear Winkel,

I get stuck with your Lotto method...
Any hope to continue with that thread?
I understand everything that was said and was hoping to get it to the next level...

I didn´t use this method since years and wouldn´t like to restart. But all you know about GUT is transferrable to Lotto!
1 spin = 1 number (roulette) =Single
1 spin = 6 numbers (Lotto) = group (to be thought as a single)

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 06, 07:07 AM 2016
Also, about GUT - do we only look for crossings in first 50 spins, or is there a point to continue with spins...?

If you want to play 6000 spins you can do so. But your notation would be quite difficult.
For a start just play up to 50 spins. Most bets on 0s vs 1; 1s vs >1s; and 1s vs 2s

After 70 or 80 spins (try the notation) you will have to watch up to 20 possible crossing-positions! If you can handle that, I dont mind!

Thank you Professor!

Sorry to hear that about Lotto, was hoping for more...

Yes, we should find enough betting situations inside 0s and 1s.
What about 0s vs >0?
Are they not of the same importance as 0s vs 1; 1s vs >1s; and 1s vs 2s?

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 06, 12:10 PM 2016

What about 0s vs >0?

How many crossings are there possible? It is just one: 19vs18

Meaning when 18 numbers remain unhit?

Quote from: winkel on Jun 06, 11:43 AM 2016
Hi denzie,

First question I would ask: What would this information tell you?

Just for general info...more info is more knowledge. Knowledge is power

It is absolutely possible to have 37 times the same number in 37 spins. You have always to be aware of this fact.

Absolutely true. But we probably never see it in our life. (FYI with repeaters in a row I mean 0x> 1x)

The second question: How would YOU fight this? Would you use a progression and bet on a new number or would you follow this streak?

Again I mean 0x > 1x. Till today the most I've seen is 11 in a row .(as in 11 times no unhit came). Depending on the info I might consider a very small progression

Thank you for your reply

Quote from: winkel on Jun 06, 12:22 PM 2016
How many crossings are there possible? It is just one: 19vs18

Aha yes, I missed that point....

And how about 0s vs >1s or 0s vs 2s?
They come a little later to the party, but should we be interested in them?

Schönen Grüße!

Quote from: denzie on Jun 06, 12:37 PM 2016
.(as in 11 times no unhit came).

pls remember:
I judge the trot after 13, 25, 37 and 50 spins! This are 13; 12; 12; 13 numbers.

Pls print different trots and compare: where are which hits more possible:
In first 13 there are mostly "new" numbers hit
In the second 12 there are new and once hit
In the 3rd 12 there all (0s, 1s, 2s) hitting

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 06, 12:45 PM 2016
Aha yes, I missed that point....

And how about 0s vs >1s or 0s vs 2s?
They come a little later to the party, but should we be interested in them?

Schönen Grüße!

A crossing is a crossing and a hint that we could bet.
If you bet that crossing depends on your trot. Is it fast, is it slow? At least it is your decision.
I can´t stand next to you and give you A CORRECT answer. You have to free yourself from rules and obeyence. Do what you think it is the right thing to do.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jun 06, 12:31 PM 2016
Meaning when 18 numbers remain unhit?

you should study from beginning on.

No other questions at the moment, thank you very much Sir!

:thumbsup:

Quote from: winkel on Jun 06, 12:51 PM 2016
pls remember:
I judge the trot after 13, 25, 37 and 50 spins! This are 13; 12; 12; 13 numbers.

Pls print different trots and compare: where are which hits more possible:
In first 13 there are mostly "new" numbers hit
In the second 12 there are new and once hit
In the 3rd 12 there all (0s, 1s, 2s) hitting

Yes the trot. I've been looking at that a lot. But many times it still surprised me...

Let's say we look after 13... we got 2 repeaters. We look again after 25... now we have 7 repeaters. So the trot is average. So you would wait a bit and see what happens next. Let's say we get 5 repeaters next. We at spin 30 now with 12 repeaters. For me this would tell me the trot (0x) is slow and it's time to start betting the 0x. And then again a lot repeaters come. This happened a lot. And vice versa too.

And as 11r is my max I've seen till today....I would know around 10r to go for the 0x

Good post Winkel...and nicely placed in "no AP players".
Saves me deleting negative posts.
Ive said before...and you agreed

GUT is a tool to help you make decisions so a lot of people will want help making the decisions...which is intuition and cant always be taught

People need to read that last bit again

There is great interest in GUT and I hope people get the answers they are looking for.

Cheers

Turner

Few more questions. ....

You always flat bet?

Max 2 times when the bets lost?

If the trot is slow and you start betting. ..let's say you won 2 bets out of 2..you keep betting?

First crossing you bet is 17/17 ?

After spin 37 you looking to bet 0s or 2s ? Or both? (Slow trot)

Quote from: denzie on Jun 06, 01:05 PM 2016
Yes the trot. I've been looking at that a lot. But many times it still surprised me...

Let's say we look after 13... we got 2 repeaters. We look again after 25... now we have 7 repeaters. So the trot is average. So you would wait a bit and see what happens next. Let's say we get 5 repeaters next. We at spin 30 now with 12 repeaters. For me this would tell me the trot (0x) is slow and it's time to start betting the 0x. And then again a lot repeaters come. This happened a lot. And vice versa too.

And as 11r is my max I've seen till today....I would know around 10r to go for the 0x

denzie, pls try to use the original phrases that I can understand what you are asking.

If you see this "often" you should easily find a trot and give an example.

QuoteFor me this would tell me the trot (0x) is slow and it's time to start betting the 0x.

you are following the Gamblers Fallacy. I´ve said: Try to follow the trend.
If it is fast play "fast". means 0´s
If it is slow play slow. means repeaters
If it is average, play all crossings without thinking and doubts.

Quote from: denzie on Jun 06, 02:01 PM 2016
Few more questions. ....

You always flat bet?

Yes, I do exclusively

Max 2 times when the bets lost?

Yes

If the trot is slow and you start betting. ..let's say you won 2 bets out of 2..you keep betting?

Try to understand the main idea of this strategy: There´s a rule. But feel you comfortable to follow it? If in doubt don´t bet.
On the other hand: You won 2 bets. What is your target? Do you wanna be millonaire in one day or do you just play for fun and not losing is your aim?

First crossing you bet is 17/17 ?
If I´m betting this at that special point in that trusty trot, when it appears, I bet it.

After spin 37 you looking to bet 0s or 2s ? Or both? (Slow trot)

Last question: I´m always looking for a crossing. It doesn´t matter which it is. And the kind of trot decides to bet or not to bet.

Quote from: Turner on Jun 06, 01:36 PM 2016
Good post Winkel...and nicely placed in "no AP players".
Saves me deleting negative posts.
Ive said before...and you agreed

GUT is a tool to help you make decisions so a lot of people will want help making the decisions...which is intuition and cant always be taught

People need to read that last bit again

There is great interest in GUT and I hope people get the answers they are looking for.

Cheers

Turner

Hi Turner,

I thought a long time about this kind of thread.
When Steve started to tell people, that I´m one of the gangsters who gives bad advice and makes peolpe lose their money I was about to quit.
I don´t feel very comfortable to give these further answers in a forum whose Owner doesn´t like me nor my strategy.

I always said, that there is a house edge, I never denied it.
I always said, that in a way "If ... , then ..." Always the HE will catch you.

the only chance (playing the classic way) to beat HE is to be sure, that I will win, if I bet.
Every ironclad rules will lead to -2,7%. (Look at the coded or RXed Versions of GUT).

If a computer can answer the question: Will you feel comfortable with this decision. Then it will be ready to be coded.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 06, 02:24 PM 2016
Hi Turner,

I thought a long time about this kind of thread.
When Steve started to tell people, that I´m one of the gangsters who gives bad advice and makes peolpe lose their money I was about to quit.
I don´t feel very comfortable to give these further answers in a forum whose Owner doesn´t like me nor my strategy.

I always said, that there is a house edge, I never denied it.
I always said, that in a way "If ... , then ..." Always the HE will catch you.

the only chance (playing the classic way) to beat HE is to be sure, that I will win, if I bet.
Every ironclad rules will lead to -2,7%. (Look at the coded or RXed Versions of GUT).

If a computer can answer the question: Will you feel comfortable with this decision. Then it will be ready to be coded.

Concise...and understood :thumbsup:

Try a new kind of thinking about the next bet

Here is a game with 37 numbers from 0 to 36:
Take 37 numbers from a real wheel
Take 37 numbers from a TRNG/RNG
Take 37 numbers out of your Head/Fantasy and try to be random as possible

Try to notice how you think.
Why do you take this number, why do you reject that number?
Did you try to get R and B ?
Did you try to get H and L?
Did you try to get E and O?
Did you try to get 1st, 2nd, 3rd Doz/Col?
Did you try to put in the Zero and how often?

Have you been able to select a single number without thinking if it could/would be okay at this place, if it would be random enough?

I hope you see: The main Difference between your numbers and the true random numbers: There was never ever thought about!

What you try to say? That nothing is connected,  there's no reason why red should come or uhm doz 3 will hit ?

The only thing we can depending on is the trot ?

Hi,

One thing I want to ask you is, when I study the trott I see:
Normal trott
Slow trott
Fast trott
But most of the time I see:
Normal -> slow
Normal -> fast
slow -> normal
slow -> fast
fast -> normal
fast -> slow
So the trott is changing. This makes it really hard to bet on.
What do you think of this? Do you bet on a changing trott?

I should also be interesting in the advanced G.U.T.
I usually only bet on the basic crossings:
0x vs 1x, my favorite and I also use this in the WTF method
1x vs >1x
1x vs 2x
2x vs >2x

But I also understand that you bet on more crossings, but how do you decide which crossings to bet for except for these? How do you decide on which to bet on? Maybe you can tell a little bit more about this?

Then I would a like to know a little bit more of the jump. How long back do you do a jump? I usually do a jump to 13 because then I can start reading the trot again. But how long back do you do you do a jump?

Thanks in advance of the answers.
- Tuddilue

How comes with GUT you can win by betting on ALL crossings - but not any particular ONE crossing...?  :question:

Quote from: falkor2k15 on Jun 09, 05:39 AM 2016
How comes with GUT you can win by betting on ALL crossings - but not any particular ONE crossing...?  :question:

All? No you do not bet on all. You bet on those that has the correct signals.

For example when the trot is normal then you can bet on many crossings. But not on all..
- Tuddilue

Quote from: denzie on Jun 07, 01:03 PM 2016
What you try to say? That nothing is connected,  there's no reason why red should come or uhm doz 3 will hit ?

The only thing we can depending on is the trot ?

Denzie,

imagine you are watching a trot, there´s a crossing and you have to "judge" if this crossing will happen. Compare your "thinking" with the "non-thinking" of the probability.

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 09, 05:02 AM 2016
Hi,

One thing I want to ask you is, when I study the trott I see:
Normal trott
Slow trott
Fast trott
But most of the time I see:
Normal -> slow
Normal -> fast
slow -> normal
slow -> fast
fast -> normal
fast -> slow
So the trott is changing. This makes it really hard to bet on.
What do you think of this? Do you bet on a changing trott?

Very interesting question!

Again: I divide the trot into 13 spins/12 spins/12 spins/13 spins.
First 13 spins I see "fast"! 24/13/0.
The next 12 spins will tell me, if "fast goes on" or if it changes to slow.
e.g.
still fast: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
slows: 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 2 0 0 0
nearly stopps: 1 1 1 0 2 2 3 0 1
If now a crossing would appear, I can tell the trend:
still fast : crossing 0=17 1=17 : bet
slows : crossing 1 vs 2: bet
stopps: 17 vs 17 : no bet
stopps: 1 vs 2 bet; 2 vs 3 bet.

similiar the change from spin 14-25 then to spins 26 to 37 then to spins 38 to 50:
Slow - fast - fast - ?guess
Slow - slow - slow - ?guess
Slow - Fast - slow - ?guess

Guess and check within first 2 or 3 spins whether your guess is correct!

just watch the behaving of trend and follow the trend. Stop if you dont anticipate the trend.[/quote]

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 09, 05:02 AM 2016
I should also be interesting in the advanced G.U.T.
I usually only bet on the basic crossings:
0x vs 1x, my favorite and I also use this in the WTF method
1x vs >1x
1x vs 2x
2x vs >2x
.

Bet the crossings you feel comfortable with. When you experience that you can read the trend and your prediction is more often right than wrong you will be easily able to bet other crossings.
I can´t comment WTF or KTF I didn´t follow it, just had some glimps into them.

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 09, 05:02 AM 2016

But I also understand that you bet on more crossings, but how do you decide which crossings to bet for except for these? How do you decide on which to bet on? Maybe you can tell a little bit more about this?
.

see above

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 09, 05:02 AM 2016
Then I would a like to know a little bit more of the jump. How long back do you do a jump? I usually do a jump to 13 because then I can start reading the trot again. But how long back do you do you do a jump?

Thanks in advance of the answers.
- Tuddilue

Try this:
Take GUTCBA. take 100 spins and copy them into the box of the right side.
Then start Gutcba and watch win or loose and crossings.

Second: just delete the first spin in the box. (means 99 spins remaining) and start Gutcba and wathc and compare.

repeat this as often as you want.

You will understand, that even 1 single spin can change all. A losing trot becomes winning and vice versa.
sometimes you will see: The trend continues, then the trend behaves crazy.

Then you will get a feeling, when it is time to jump and how far you should jump. and first of all after jumping: Check if you now can anticipate the trend. Otherwise: Jump.
Every jump kills a loss without losing money!

If my English made you curious, pls ask again.

Can I post a session which you could analyse for us ?

Quote from: denzie on Jun 09, 08:39 AM 2016
Can I post a session which you could analyse for us ?

Of course, but pls step by step

pls give the first 8 numbers

From first to last spun...

14-30-22-10-10-36-17-4

Thx.
I use "Track4.exe"

0   1  >1   2 30  6  1    1

Trot is "normal". We can expect a second repeater.
If we bet we would lose: 7+8+9+10+11 up to spin 13 if no repeater appears. 45 units. So we don´t bet, because risc is highere than possible result.

pls give spin 9

3

Quote from: denzie on Jun 09, 02:18 PM 2016
3

That didn´t change the situation

Had now the second repeater hit, we had to make a decision.

So we are just comntinuing watching the trot.

One spin pls.

PS: sorry for late answer

no problem  :)

17

Quote from: denzie on Jun 10, 03:26 PM 2016
no problem  :)

17

That is the second reapeater.
Now the count is 29 6 2
Average after 13 spins is 26 9 2
So we could risk to bet on 0s, because there have 3 0s to come.

from my statistics spin 13
37,47 % end at 24 or 25 0s, (that is gone)
34,3% end at 26
20,3% end at 27
6,49% end at 28 
1,42% end at 29 and more that we can ignore

so we have at least the chance to hit 1 out of 29

You decide, whether it´s a good bet or not.

I myself don´t bet more than 17 numbers!

pls give 3 more spins

12-8-24

(That's what I remember you told me...never more than 17 nrs bet)  :thumbsup:

Quote from: denzie on Jun 10, 05:09 PM 2016
12-8-24

As I predicted.

This shows me at spin 13:
This trot is "normal". 1 repeater in spin 5; 1 repeater in spin 10!

If this trot will stay "normal" we expect:
at spin 25: 18/19 0s; 13/14 1s; 4/5 >1s
next 3 spins: 2 0s

Pls give 4 new spins

It was mentioned to write losing crossings in a book.
When that losing crossing is met again, how do you bet this?
Do you increase the unit or just rebet single units?

Thanks.

11-26-10-26

Quote from: denzie on Jun 11, 08:42 AM 2016
11-26-10-26

At spin 17 (8spins to go) we have 24 0s; 10 1s; 3 >1s
With two 0s hit an one 1s hit and one 2s hit

Now we can calculate again:
between spin 14 and 25 we expect
7-8 0s; 3-4 1s; 1-2 >1s to hit
remain after first 4 spins:
5-6 0s; 2-3 1s; 0-1 >1s to hit in the next 8 spins.

If there was a bet on 1s: now there are 10# to bet. We could bet 3 times.
8 spins 3-4 1s to hit expects one hit every second bet.

If there was a bet on >1s: now there are 3#. We could bet 12! times.
There´s a crossing 2s vs 3s with 2 and 1.
This is a possible bet.
I myself bet all 3 numbers instead of only the 2 2s.

The bet on 1s is also possible. But if the first 3 bets are lost, we have to face -30.

pls next 3 numbers

Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 11, 08:33 AM 2016
It was mentioned to write losing crossings in a book.
When that losing crossing is met again, how do you bet this?
Do you increase the unit or just rebet single units?

Thanks.

No! It was mentioned to write all crossing-results in a book. Sorted by spin they appeared.

18-2-9

Thx winkel...I'm following very carefully

Quote from: winkel on Jun 11, 01:37 PM 2016
Now we can calculate again:
between spin 14 and 25 we expect
7-8 0s; 3-4 1s; 1-2 >1s to hit
remain after first 4 spins:
5-6 0s; 2-3 1s; 0-1 >1s to hit in the next 8 spins.

If there was a bet on 1s: now there are 10# to bet. We could bet 3 times.
8 spins 3-4 1s to hit expects one hit every second bet.

If there was a bet on >1s: now there are 3#. We could bet 12! times.
There´s a crossing 2s vs 3s with 2 and 1.
This is a possible bet.
I myself bet all 3 numbers instead of only the 2 2s.

The bet on 1s is also possible. But if the first 3 bets are lost, we have to face -30.

pls next 3 numbers

18-2-9

The bet on 1s had lost with -30
The bet on >1s had also lost but with -9 and we could proceed

Now we can calculate again:
between spin 14 and 25 we expect
7-8 0s; 3-4 1s; 1-2 >1s to hit
remain after first 7 spins:
2-3 0s; 2-3 1s; 0-1 >1s to hit in the next 5 spins.

If we would NOW start betting on 1s we had to bet 13# and we could bet twice
The expected hit every second spin didn´t come in. Either the trot starts to fasten up or we get a row of 1´s to hit.
The crossing 2s vs 3s is still active and a good bet.

As you see the risc becomes more and more able to calculate. If we are in doubt after each analysis, we just don´t bet. If we are sure we bet.

I prefer to bet the >1s or to wait until there is an undoubtable situation.

Perhaps I didn´t express clearly enough:

This is just the way I sort it up. It is my thinking. Every other kind or result or betdecision is possible, just watch to be successful with it.

I don´t explain every single spin. If you learn to do that, than you could have bet some of the recent spins.

If anything is not expressed in an understandable way, so pls ask.

thx
winkel

Thanks
something to look at tomorrow  :thumbsup:

Would it be too much if I also post some numbers (or someone else), so you comment on more trots simultaneously and we "read" different situations...?

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 12, 01:37 AM 2016
Would it be too much if I also post some numbers (or someone else), so you comment on more trots simultaneously and we "read" different situations...?

Most people can´t understand the basics. Do you think they would be able to follow the analysis of 2 different trots?

Your trot can be the next, when this is finished or denzie quits

 :lol:

@Winkel
I'll stay in line....

@Notto
Be serious in class, please!  :D

Winkle, is the GUT strategy primarily for single numbers or will it work on streets as well?

Quote from: Scarface on Jun 12, 01:24 PM 2016
Winkle, is the GUT strategy primarily for single numbers or will it work on streets as well?

It works only on plein/straight numbers

Quote from: winkel on Jun 12, 11:13 AM 2016

Your trot can be the next, when this is finished or denzie quits

My apologies. ..hadn't had much time to come online. I'll post the next numbers tonight for sure...how many spins you want ?

pls 2 new numbers

0-19

Quote from: denzie on Jun 13, 11:19 AM 2016
0-19

This is now 6 0s in a row.

The bet on >1s had also lost but with -15 and we could proceed

Now we can calculate again:
between spin 14 and 25 we expect
7-8 0s; 3-4 1s; 1-2 >1s to hit
remain after first 7 spins:
1 0s; 4-5 1s; 0-1 >1s to hit in the next 3 spins.

As this trot changed to fast we could bet 19 0s. (If you decide so; I wouldn´t bet)
As the 1s have to hit more times than spins are left we could say: there is pressure on them.
As the trot is fast, we stop betting on >1s.

We wll wait for a real good bet.

Pls 2 new spins.

(Why two? Because: if the trot stays fast we will have after two 0s a crossing 17-17 which I would bet.)

isnt it 5 in a row?

18-35

Quote from: denzie on Jun 13, 12:25 PM 2016
isnt it 5 in a row?

18-35

5 correct!

one 1 and one 0 hit. We have 24 spins!

18 15 4 is normaly the result at spin 25.
This means everything can happen in the next spin.

Pls 1 new spin

34

Now at spin 25 we have 17-16 so we bet all 0s.

pls 1 spin

22

22 is a repeater.

Now we stop betting because ist says 17 15 5, no crossing no bet.

pls next spin, because there is a chance of getting 16 16. You decide if you would bet that to happen

22 again

now we have still 17 15 5 because 22 went from 1 to 2 and then to 3.
This made a new crossing 2vs3 with 3 and 2

We try to find any kind of rythm:
at the 0s it went 20 19 19 18 17 17 17 (possible: 16 15 15 15 15)
at the 1´s: 14 15 14 15 16 15 15 (the last count destroyed any chance to follow

We start betting 17 18 26 10 22

pls next spin

3

the 3 destroys every kind of crossing and possible hints.
We have -20 as bet-result.
We have 17 14 6

We could expect:
If a 0 hits we will have 16 15 (decide to bet that this will happen if you like)
a hit on 2s would give us again a crossing 2vs3 with 3 and 3

pls next spin

7

We bet that crossing 16 15

#s 1 5 6 13 15 16 20 21 23 25 27 28 29 31 32 33

15

So we have a hit: Results: -20-16+36 = 0
Nothing lost, nothing won.

We are at spin 30. at Spin 37 we could expect: 13/14 13/14 9/10
In 7 spins there should appear:
1-2 0s; 3-4 1s; these are max 6 hits in 7 spins so we can expect also one 2s or 3s to hit again.

This trot is still a bit fast.

pls 1 new spin

30

We have a crossing again. 15 15. Trot still fast.

we bet that crossing
#s: 1 5 6 13 16 20 21 23 25 27 28 29 31 32 33

4

crossing stil there 15-14
We bet same #s again

11

This trot is a runaway. It is the second time a crossing went away without hitting.

Result so far -30. I would stop this trot. But for explanations:

If the next spin hits we get a 14-14-crossing

pls 1 spin

20

It happened, what I expected 14-14

We bet 1 5 6 13 16 21 23 25 27 28 29 31 32 33 = 14#s

0

It changed to 14 13

You see, that I got the movement:
- crossing appears
- crossing doesn´t hit

My way to get out or jump would have been the best.

But we still have a crossing and we bet the same #s again

1

at least we got another hit: -30-14-14+36= -22

It is now 13 14 10.
We could now bet that another crossing (13-13) appears, that means to bet are the 1s:
#s: 1 2 7 8 9 12 14 15 19 20 24 34 35 36

pls nexxt spin

23

We just thought, we could read, the trot changes.

23 is 0s and we have now 12 15 10

With another hit on 0s we could get a crossing 0 vs >1 with 11-11

so we could decide to bet the 0s:
5 6 13 16 21 25 27 28 29 31 32 33

Let have a look: 1 new spin pls

15

Quote from: denzie on Jun 13, 03:29 PM 2016
15

This is a 1s.
But it made us a crossing as well: 12 14 11

Let´s calculate:
hits a 0 we will still have a crossing: 11 15 11
hits a 1 we will still have a crossing: 12 13 12
hits a >1 we will still have the original crossing.

As you see we could bet every chance with a reasonable argument.
Stop betting at such a point and jump or restart.

But here we rebet that 12 0s
pls one new spin

28

Yeah a hit and another crossing:
11 15 11

We bet now the 11 0s: 5 6 13 16 21 25 27 29 31 32 33

What I always say:

Do watch the crossings
Try to get to know what is going on
If in doubt don´t bet.
Make a decision, it might be right or might be wrong.

You can see all these points in this trot.

Pls one new number

36

No hit, crossing driftet away: 11 14 12
the 2s count 10. If one is crazy he could bet 0vs2
Try to think about, why it is crazy, or why it could a sensefull bet.

I´ll be back tomorrow.

denzie I hope you got, what you wanted. I definitely don´t go to spin 50.

any questions?

I'll get back tomorrow as well...gonna reread all very carefully b4 I ask questions. ..


Thank you for your time....
much appreciated

Thanks guys.....

Thanks guys! Impressive read Winkel!

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 14, 01:48 AM 2016
Thanks guys! Impressive read Winkel!

Thats just the beginning

Ok, time for me to come in...

Here i have some numbers:
14 26 26 21 29

Winkel, thank you in advance for analyze!

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 14, 03:24 PM 2016
Ok, time for me to come in...

Here i have some numbers:
14 26 26 21 29

Winkel, thank you in advance for analyze!

Quite a very early repeater. We will see if it irritates or not.

pls another 5 spins

There we go:

14 26 26 21 29 17 11 6 36 27

Now this is 28 8 1
at spin 13 we expect 26 9 2
We have still 3 spin to go
so 2 0s and one 1s would it get to there

If we bet 1s we could lose: 8 9 10 = 27
Is the risc smaller than a win (36) we can bet.

So we bet: 6 11 14 17 21 27 29 36

pls 1 spin ( pls do not repeat the spins before. thx)

We have

13

We bet again including the 13


6 11 13 14 17 21 27 29 36

pls 1 spin

Here comes

12

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 14, 03:41 PM 2016
Here comes

12

We bet again including the 12

6 11 12 13 14 17 21 27 29 36

And we got

26

Result -27

This count is now 26 10 0 1
This is a combination as rare as virgins in a brothel.
In 32000 trots I didn´t have that once

pls give the next 12 spins

Ha ha, live spins from Dublinbet!

32 23 31 22 27 26
19  0 19 23 10 9

These 12 spins up to spin 25 show now (0s;1s;2s;3s;4s) 18 15 3 0 1
That is simple looked at (0 1 >1) 18 15 4 but as you see above it is tricky!

Next spin could give us a 17 17 - crossing.

pls 1 spin

19

This is a not readable trot.

So I try to restart it.

In this case I just kill the first 2 spins 14 and 26. so we get rid of the much too early 4s!

This now shows: at spin 24: 19 14 2 2 which is quite common situation

Pls 2 spins

Interesting aproach!

17 7

The so created new trot behaves quite normal.

So pls give one new spin, to test if the trend stays

31 it is...

Now we have 18 13 4 2
The next crossing would appear if
17 14 4 2
16 15 4 2

or

18 13 3 3

So we need 1 more spin

22, it is getting weird again?

23 13 1 0
23 12 2 0
23 12 1 1
22 13 1 1
21 14 1 1
21 13 2 1
21 12 3 1
20 13 3 1
19 14 3 1
19 14 2 2
19 13 3 2
18 14 3 2
18 13 4 2
18 12 5 2


since spin 15 this trot slows down. 

I tested different jumpings but they offered no better trots. So we just stay on this.

Pls 3 new spins

32 30 31

At spin 31 we have 17 12 5 3

Best way is to wait for a crossing
17 12
16 13
15 14

Pls 2 spins

0 29

I watched a lot of these kind of trots at DB. Just start betting on these repeaters and the 0s will run in.

This trot is now at spin 33 with 17 10 7 3

I would give up and start a new trot.

NextYear If you like we can restart tomorrow. Just the same way

br
winkel

Yes, just say time.
I'm free tomorrow, so anytime is ok.

There are about 20 nums left...

I shell start with new day, yes?

pls select a trot with at least 50 spins.

Timetable: In Germany it is 22:42
Tomorow we could start between 19:00 or 20:00 germantime

Same as in Croatia.

Bis Morgen denn!

Can someone ask winkel about the Parrondo's Paradox technique he taught Priyanka?  :question:

Interesting to see your analysis of these trots, thank you winkel !

Hello Winkel!

This kind of "live play" surely is most useful for us who wants to understand as much as possible from your kind of "players intelligence"...

I have to correct myself about yesterdays numbers: as I was on the phone, and my sight is not as it used to be, I misinterpret from where are numbers.

The numbers are from my play on Airball few days ago (which doesn't change anything in fact), and for today I prepared Dublinbet numbers!

First 5 are 31 0 35 16 21

Any trot will do. It is always a risc to do such demonstrations.
Very often the trots are selected. That means they are trots where the poster struggeled and lost and wants the "correct" interpretation. But an idiotic trot is an idiotic trot and can´t make a winning trot of it.

And I had to face trots which were designed to make me lose also.

But this starts quite as expected just single hits no repeats.

pls another 2 spins

32 7

At spin 8 is the most likely point for the first repeater statistics tell.
But don´t let mislead you, check how many percents have repeated before the 8th spin and how many will repeat after the 8th spin.

pls 2 new spins

19 15

As you see if we had followed that saying, we would have lost.

The situation 24 13 0 after 13 spins is rare (phps I´ll post the results of my stats)
So if we have 1 repeater (25 11 1) also rare) we could expect a second one.

If we calculate we can reduce the risc.

4 spins left:
Imagine 4 losses: -9 -10 -11 -12 = -42 loss is bigger than one possible win 36 - don´t bet.

Just wait another spin!

Pls one spin

12

-10 -11 -12 = -33 is smaller than 36 so we could risc a bet.
Pls note that there was no repeater in the first 10 spins!.

we bet: 0 7 12 15 16 19 21 31 32 35

Pls one new spin

16

A beautiful hit, isn´t it.  +26 (I do the math without tronc and leaving the bet-chip on table)

So we just watch what is going on further: Pls 2 spins

17 24

No second repeater. We have eleven 1s we could bet them 3 times.

The trot is fast(rare) so predict one hit in the next 3 spins.

We bet:  0 7 12 15 17 19 21 24 31 32 35

pls one spin

11

No hit. We add 11

We bet: 0 7 11 12 15 17 19 21 24 31 32 35


One spin pls

13

No hit. We add 13

We bet the last time (-11 -12 -13 = -36) : 0 7 11 12 13 15 17 19 21 24 31 32 35


One spin pls

We're lucky this time....

7

It is funny: pls check reply #101 following: Same precedure 11 14 were there 12 and 13 as 0s follow as I bet 1s!?

So altogether we have +26

If you wanna risc some money you could bet:
we now have 23 0s
we have 9 spins remaining to spin 25
If we lose 1 bet of 23 we need 2 wins to come back
now the count is 23 12 2
we expect at spin 25: 18/19 14/15 4/5

We would survive with 3 losses and 6 wins
We expect 4-5 wins.
Lets test our luck and bet 23 0s and we stop after a Plus

We bet: 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 14 18 20 22 23 25 26 27 28 29 30 33 34 36

pls 1 spin

9

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 15, 01:42 PM 2016
9

Hit! Now we have altogether 39 units +

As you can see: calculation with the averages and watching what is going on, can give you a "sophisticated guess". If you don´t have any devices or the golgen Eye which helps you to beat the wheel, this can give you an advice to bet or not to bet, which will make you beat the house edge.

Not betting is not losing. so only bet if you are sure you "could" and will win.

I would stop the game at this point 39 units at minimum 78 Euros is okay.

thanks to NextYear.

See you

thx again mr winkel  :thumbsup:

Thank you Winkel,

the rest of the session would go as follows:

1 22 36 35 29 6 33 32 33 2 33 9 30 21 25 0 4 1 20 16 9 31 31 7 35 30 13 7 22 23 27
29 8 24 1 2 25 34 21 1 8 21 12 24 12 30 24 33 30 28 26 9 2 32 22 11 14 19 25

Whenever you feel like playing again, just say a word!

Danke

Quote from: winkel on Jun 15, 01:24 PM 2016The trot is fast(rare) so predict one hit in the next 3 spins.

I've just got to spin 13,should we keep in mind the possible next 12 spins, the expected 8,0x's.
I know i could just read on but this topic is to train our thoughts ?

Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 15, 01:57 PM 2016
I've just got to spin 13,should we keep in mind the possible next 12 spins, the expected 8,0x's.
I know i could just read on but this topic is to train our thoughts ?

After spin 13 you have to keep the next 12 spins in mind.
As there was only one repeat, I started to bet on 1s.
after 3 spins I could say if it keeps fast or not.
As it was still fast the bet on 0s was nearly no risc.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 15, 02:03 PM 2016As it was still fast the bet on 0s was nearly no risc.

was the bet for the 23 0x's chanced as you were +26, so allowing 1 spin

@Winkel

At the beginning of GUT, 8 years ago, you never played before virgin crossing 19/18.
Was it only recently that you start playing "new way", I mean sometimes even start betting before 10th spin?

Thanks

Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 15, 02:28 PM 2016
was the bet for the 23 0x's chanced as you were +26, so allowing 1 spin

I recommend a bankroll of 200 units. So a balance in between wouldn´t be an argument.
I follow the trot, whether it lets me read it and win, and my nuts how far I could tease the luck.

Quote from: NextYear on Jun 16, 03:04 AM 2016
@Winkel

At the beginning of GUT, 8 years ago, you never played before virgin crossing 19/18.
Was it only recently that you start playing "new way", I mean sometimes even start betting before 10th spin?

Thanks

It was due to education. If I had started to bet crossings after 3 spins, they would have killed me. At that time nobody knew what a crossing is and means.
Look how many don´t understand that virgin crossing of 19vs18. What is 19 and what is 18 and what means crossing? I had to lead them from basics to expert-level.

Which I obviousley didn´t manage.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 15, 01:05 PM 2016
At spin 8 is the most likely point for the first repeater statistics tell.
....

Is this the Reply 44 you are refering to? Here is a link: link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14735.30

Quote from: winkel on Jun 15, 01:11 PM 2016
...

The situation 24 13 0 after 13 spins is rare (phps I´ll post the results of my stats)
So if we have 1 repeater (25 11 1) also rare) we could expect a second one.
...

You said that perhaps you will post the results of your stats?
I know that you have done it before but do you have some new stats?

Quote from: winkel on Jun 16, 09:14 AM 2016
It was due to education. If I had started to bet crossings after 3 spins, they would have killed me. At that time nobody knew what a crossing is and means.
Look how many don´t understand that virgin crossing of 19vs18. What is 19 and what is 18 and what means crossing? I had to lead them from basics to expert-level.

Which I obviousley didn´t manage.

I think it is really impressive how fast you can analyze the trott and that the basics has so much to learn. I realize that for me I have a lot to learn  :smile:

- Tuddilue

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 16, 10:04 AM 2016
Is this the Reply 44 you are refering to? Here is a link: link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14735.30
You said that perhaps you will post the results of your stats?
I know that you have done it before but do you have some new stats?

I think it is really impressive how fast you can analyze the trott and that the basics has so much to learn. I realize that for me I have a lot to learn  :smile:

- Tuddilue

Hi Tuddilue,

sorry fo late reply.

Referring to the stats of LuckofIrish: You can run such a statistic every day and the results wil be the same. But nobody asks: If the first repeater was in spin 2 how many repeaters have followed until spin #X
or: If the first repeater was in spin 12 how many repeaters have followed until spin #X.

It is not the question: What happens if...? The question is: That what happened at that spin under which circumstances did that happen.

New stats: Every statistic proofs all the statistics before. Otherwise the game wouldn´t be random and wouldn´t follow the laws of statistics for a random game.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 20, 03:03 PM 2016
Hi Tuddilue,

sorry fo late reply.

Referring to the stats of LuckofIrish: You can run such a statistic every day and the results wil be the same. But nobody asks: If the first repeater was in spin 2 how many repeaters have followed until spin #X
or: If the first repeater was in spin 12 how many repeaters have followed until spin #X.

It is not the question: What happens if...? The question is: That what happened at that spin under which circumstances did that happen.

New stats: Every statistic proofs all the statistics before. Otherwise the game wouldn´t be random and wouldn´t follow the laws of statistics for a random game.

No worries. Just answer when you can. I'm always looking forward your answers!

I think it is interesting how close you can analyze the trott with help of the statistics.
For example when you started to bet a repeater after 10 spins in NextYears session.
For me I bet a little bigger. I mean I'm not so close to analyze the trott that you do.

I bet after the averages that notto has:

Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 08, 04:19 PM 2016
...
So 7+5+3 = 15 and as we distribute the 15 non-hit 11-20 (5) 21-30 (5) 31-40 (5)
                                                  usual average seen     (7,+2)   (12,+2)     (15,+0)
                                                                                         (7)   +    (5)     +     (3)
                                                                                     more      average      more
                                                                                 non-hit        both         repeats

So usually I bet the x1 at 21-30.
I also look at the trott what is happening. But so close analyzes as you do with the trott I understand that I need more training in the statistics. Do you have some tips here? LuckofIrish is a good start for me.

I was a little surprised that you didn't wait for the crossings in NextYears session. But was that decision based on that you already won +39 and that it was a fast trott? Should you have done something other if the trott was normal?

For me I bet only when the trott is slow or normal. Then I bet on the 1x but I always look at the crossings as well. If normal I tries to flatbet some crossings. But it usually is betting on 0x -> 1x..

So back to training. Thanks for the reply! 

- Tuddilue

Hi Tuddilue,

you seem to be helpless. Thats no criticism. But it is the point you have to leave.

At a given Point the count is:  17 15 5
The count could only come from:
18 14 5 (if the last spin was a 0s) or
17 16 4 (if the last spin was a 1s) or
17 15 5 (if the last spin was a >1s)

The same way it will change after the next spin. It only can change to:
16 16 5 (if the next spin is a 0s)
17 14 6 (if the next spin is a 1s)
17 15 5 (if the next spin ois a >1s)

If at this given Point the trot is fast: bet 0s
If at this given point the trot is slow: bet >1s
If at this given point the trot is average: bet the trend, if there is one
If in doubt, don´t bet.

What is the average trot or how would it develope?

At that count of 17 15 5
0s will hit with a probability of 17/37
1s will hit with a probability of 15/37
>1s will hit with a probability of 5/37.

If you have a count of 17 0s after spin 20 the trot is definitley fast.
If you have a count of 17 0s after spin 40 the trot is definitley slow.

If you have a count of 17 15 5 and there is >1s hit this will be maximum for 8 times,then the others 0s or 1s will hit!
this is also for every >1s-count at any position: after max 8 hits it will change.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 21, 11:09 AM 2016
Hi Tuddilue,

you seem to be helpless. Thats no criticism. But it is the point you have to leave.
Thanks, yes definitely a point I need to leave  :wink:

At a given Point the count is:  17 15 5
The count could only come from:
18 14 5 (if the last spin was a 0s) or
17 16 4 (if the last spin was a 1s) or
17 15 5 (if the last spin was a >1s)

The same way it will change after the next spin. It only can change to:
16 16 5 (if the next spin is a 0s)
17 14 6 (if the next spin is a 1s)
17 15 5 (if the next spin ois a >1s)

If at this given Point the trot is fast: bet 0s
If at this given point the trot is slow: bet >1s
If at this given point the trot is average: bet the trend, if there is one
If in doubt, don´t bet.

What is the average trot or how would it develope?

At that count of 17 15 5
0s will hit with a probability of 17/37
1s will hit with a probability of 15/37
>1s will hit with a probability of 5/37.
Thanks this helps me a lot. To see it this way is a lot easier.

If you have a count of 17 0s after spin 20 the trot is definitley fast.
If you have a count of 17 0s after spin 40 the trot is definitley slow.

If you have a count of 17 15 5 and there is >1s hit this will be maximum for 8 times,then the others 0s or 1s will hit!
this is also for every >1s-count at any position: after max 8 hits it will change.
Is this 8 times based on statistics?

Thanks this explains better for me. This is exactly was I was thinking about when I talked about analyzing the trot.

- Tuddilue

One other thing I was thinking about is if you still play some other play when you are waiting for the crossings?
For example the mirror are you using that strategy still?
- Tuddilue

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 21, 03:19 PM 2016
One other thing I was thinking about is if you still play some other play when you are waiting for the crossings?
For example the mirror are you using that strategy still?
- Tuddilue

I'm curious if you still uses the mirror?  I like to play the red/black or odd/even. But I never seem to find some good strategy with that. Do you have some tips?
- Tuddilue

I'm also interesting to learn more about the basics in the gut. Do you have some ideas what the next step is?
Or do you want to do a new session?
Or maybe some good examples of different situations on different trots, fast/normal/slow. Or when they change.
What do you think? I'm always want to learn more!
- Tuddilue

Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 25, 06:42 AM 2016
I'm curious if you still uses the mirror?  I like to play the red/black or odd/even. But I never seem to find some good strategy with that. Do you have some tips?
- Tuddilue

Here is a tip . STAY AWAY FROM THE EC. It doesnt work. Unless you play the variance vs patience game with a positive parlay.
Anyway all serious players dont use them unless its for keeping there seat at the table. Go ahead Tamino smite again  ;)

Quote from: denzie on Jun 25, 07:14 AM 2016
Here is a tip . STAY AWAY FROM THE EC. It doesnt work. Unless you play the variance vs patience game with a positive parlay.
Anyway all serious players dont use them unless its for keeping there seat at the table. Go ahead Tamino smite again  ;)

I can agree on that. Been to burned to much playing EC. But I always likes it. I think the reason is that there where my starting point when playing roulette.

So tips about the mirror is approachiated!  Or of course other tips with EC.

- Tuddilue

Hi Tuddilue,

this is a GUT-Blog, pls no other questions.

QuoteI'm also interesting to learn more about the basics in the gut. Do you have some ideas what the next step is?
Or do you want to do a new session?

The basics of GUT?
Watch what is going on!
Play the crossings!
If not sure, don´t bet!
Excercise and analyse all trots won or lost!

I don´t want to analyse more examples. If you have a question just put in the numbers until the question appears. I will analyse the trot and give you a hint.

Here one question about crossing:

zum beispiel we have:

0s    1s
16    15    L  -16
16    15    L  -32
16    15    the crossing is still there. Should we continue?

Thanks

What about the other counts?
What happened before?
In which spins takes that place?

BTW: We only bet as long we can end up with a win! -16 -16 = -32 so stop.

You obviously are afraid that the next spin will hit and you could have won if you had bet.
Typical situation of "being not sure" isn´t it?

Quote from: winkel on Jun 27, 06:16 AM 2016You obviously are afraid that the next spin will hit and you could have won if you had bet.

Yes, that's it. So eager to get a hit!
And with itchy fingers to use progression...

But as you said somewhere: "There will always be more spins..."
It's not always easy to let it go, but I hope to get to it....

Thanks one more time!

Quote from: winkel on Jun 27, 06:16 AM 2016You obviously are afraid that the next spin will hit and you could have won if you had bet.
Typical situation of "being not sure" isn´t it?

Mr Winkel very wise.  Always good advice.

Sirs,

I read some quotes of "roletti" using this tracker.

I wanna express: I found some misleading and falty declarations in the way GUT is played.

Pls don´t use this software it is leading you wrong.

Just because it doesnt follow GUT does not mean it cannot be good.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jun 30, 02:10 PM 2016
Just because it doesnt follow GUT does not mean it cannot be good.

But it will (for sure) be used to "confirm" that GUT doesn´t work! I know these kind of efforts.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 30, 02:25 PM 2016
But it will (for sure) be used to "confirm" that GUT doesn´t work! I know these kind of efforts.

Good point. Agreed.

Quote from: winkel on Jun 30, 02:25 PM 2016
But it will (for sure) be used to "confirm" that GUT doesn´t work! I know these kind of efforts.

Honest person not possible say GUT doesn't work.  Test show it work, just need brain included.

Hi Professor

We've been shown the basics' would it be possible to go to intermediate level?

Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 13, 09:25 AM 2016
Hi Professor

We've been shown the basics' would it be possible to go to intermediate level?

You are almost playing the ultimate version.

Just adjust the change between 0s; 1s; 2s and the others.

Quote from: winkel on Jul 13, 10:38 AM 2016
You are almost playing the ultimate version.

Just adjust the change between 0s; 1s; 2s and the others.

Yes but how,  do you have some good examples?
- Tuddilue

Quote from: tuddilue on Jul 13, 01:20 PM 2016
Yes but how,  do you have some good examples?
- Tuddilue

There is no trafficlight that shows you what to do. You can´t explain HOW a trot changes.
If YOU don´t see it, for you it doesn´t change!

Just take wiesbaden-spins. They are coming up live every 1.5 minutes. Sit and make decisions! Sit and watch. Excersize. Many Rehearsels as much as you can. than you will learn and you will know.

Quote from: winkel on Jul 15, 12:21 PM 2016
There is no trafficlight that shows you what to do. You can´t explain HOW a trot changes.
If YOU don´t see it, for you it doesn´t change!

Just take wiesbaden-spins. They are coming up live every 1.5 minutes. Sit and make decisions! Sit and watch. Excersize. Many Rehearsels as much as you can. than you will learn and you will know.

Yes that is what I'm doing all the time. Analyzes the trot and plays like you do.
It is going quite well and I'm learning a lot. Because of that I asked you my questions.
You always learn more from your examples and how you thinks. For example the statistics I'm not so good at that. But I learn.

Sorry to hear that you gets angry when I'm asking but of course I can stop if you want...
-Tuddilue

Quote from: tuddilue on Jul 15, 12:31 PM 2016
Sorry to hear that you gets angry when I'm asking but of course I can stop if you want...
-Tuddilue

Sorry that I sound angry. Must be due to my bad English.

What I wanted to express:

There is no point to say: If a fast trot shows xx repeaters of 1s and xx repeaters of 2s or if a 5s hits then ...

You only can try to make youself able to make the right decisions.
If you are wrong ( I say two or 3 wrong decisions in a row) just stop or jump!
If you are not sure, don´t bet.

Simply: There is no always correct answer to every constellation.

Esoteric people would say: Try to align the rhythm of your heart to the rhythm of the trot.

Quote from: winkel on Jul 15, 01:55 PM 2016
Sorry that I sound angry. Must be due to my bad English.

What I wanted to express:

There is no point to say: If a fast trot shows xx repeaters of 1s and xx repeaters of 2s or if a 5s hits then ...

You only can try to make youself able to make the right decisions.
If you are wrong ( I say two or 3 wrong decisions in a row) just stop or jump!
If you are not sure, don´t bet.

Simply: There is no always correct answer to every constellation.

Esoteric people would say: Try to align the rhythm of your heart to the rhythm of the trot.

No problem. My English can also be bad sometimes..

Yes I understand what you mean. I jump after 2or 3 bad decisions. I also realize that there is no Trott that explains everything. The Trott is always new and you don't know what adventures you will face. It's fascinating!

I have never dared to bet the other crossings that comes late in the Trott. But I'm watching them. So maybe I will..
Thanks
-Tuddilue

I very much like play GUT this way link:://betselection.cc/straight-up/the-finale-crossing/

Quote from: dimsun on Jul 16, 01:40 AM 2016
I very much like play GUT this way link:://betselection.cc/straight-up/the-finale-crossing/

Oh that one I have not seen before. Really interesting reading!
Thanks
-Tuddilue

Quote from: dimsun on Jul 16, 01:40 AM 2016
I very much like play GUT this way link:://betselection.cc/straight-up/the-finale-crossing/

That took me back
Prinyanka is a great writer for sure. Hes not playing this now though, I guess
I dont have any memory of this even though I clearly commented on it.
Winkel says in the post he tested all ways like this and they dont work...and hes the authority

Quote from: Turner on Jul 16, 06:56 AM 2016
...
Winkel says in the post he tested all ways like this and they dont work...and hes the authority

You don´t have to believe in me! Just test it and you will see!
There is no easier way to proof, that my comments are always reliable.

I don't like to see Winkel (also Notto, Denzie, Turner...) with so many smites!

But who asks me....

Quote from: NextYear on Jul 16, 11:11 AM 2016
I don't like to see Winkel (also Notto, Denzie, Turner...) with so many smites!

But who asks me....

We all have dashing good looks.
We live with this jealousy on a daily basis

Quote from: NextYear on Jul 16, 11:11 AM 2016
I don't like to see Winkel (also Notto, Denzie, Turner...) with so many smites!

But who asks me....

Seen mine? Lol

Quote from: Turner on Jul 16, 06:56 AM 2016
That took me back
Prinyanka is a great writer for sure. Hes not playing this now though, I guess
I dont have any memory of this even though I clearly commented on it.
Winkel says in the post he tested all ways like this and they dont work...and hes the authority

I not think Priyanka is GreatGrampa.  Read lot both writing, lot very different.  Play different to.  You right winkel authority GUT but always good try different.  Open mind see different get reward.  Closed mind boring miss fun.

Quote from: winkel on Jul 16, 11:06 AM 2016
You don´t have to believe in me! Just test it and you will see!
There is no easier way to proof, that my comments are always reliable.

Awknowledged you genius winkel only stupid say different.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jul 16, 12:16 PM 2016
Seen mine? Lol

Lmao  ;D

Quote from: Turner on Jul 16, 11:42 AM 2016
We all have dashing good looks.
We live with this jealousy on a daily basis

That reminds me of something tonto  ::)

What was the name of that thread were we posted our real pictures? 

Quote from: NextYear on Jul 16, 11:11 AM 2016
I don't like to see Winkel (also Notto, Denzie, Turner...) with so many smites!

But who asks me....

No worries.  We don't take that very serious.
But on a positive note.... I know who smite me  :P

Smite me almighty smiter

link:s://youtu.be/edc9wyBCGCQ

Rofl... good one
general was driving that truck though  :wink:

Professor, i'm posting these spins, but i hope you don't mind my method KTF running a long side, if its a problem i'll leave them off, but i think some members run both side by side to help in reading the trot.
I know spin 10 gives you some info, in KTF it shows how many non-hit are to be bet in spins 11-40. For any person trying KTF it will be just betting the remaining non-hit (0x) in this game 28 0x's.
what you expect is by spin 40 24 0x's will have come, you will use +1/-1 as the spins come.
Now for GUT, we can see at spin 10 its 28-8-1-1, you supply info at spin 13, 26-9-2-2 we can see KTF has won 3 spins for +27 As GUT is looking for a crossing theres no need to bet,but as you have said we could bet if we can read the trot, So from info at spin 13 we could bet for the 1x's to repeat, if the player is going to bet that a repeat comes for this one bet why not cover all, all 11, 1x+>1, if it lost only 11 units down.
We can see we would have lost 11 units, but i think you would not bet as its to many units. GUT reads 25-11-1-1

Professor I'm not trying to discredit GUT, just trying too, with you, show how watching the trot and hopefully understanding what the 0x's are going to do possibly by spin 25, it could read 18/19-14/15-03/05 so possibly have 7-8 0x's hit.

KTF by spin 20 could have 5,0x's, but on average gets 7,+2 with 3,0x's its showing a fast trot and +27 perhaps you should now just watch, better to have a profit, which you can use for a bet if you are able to read the trot


   KTF # 0x 1x >1x 2x >2x 3x >3x 4
1 5 36 1
2 18 35 2
3 12 34 3
4 15 33 4
5 26 32 5
6 16 31 6
7 11 30 7
8 36 29 8
9 R 36 29 7 1 1
10 9 28 8 1 1
11 10 0 27 9 1 1
12 11 33 26 10 1 1
13 12 35 25 11 1 1
14 R 26 25 10 2 2
15 R 0 25 9 3 3
16 13 3 24 10 3 3
17 14 22 23 11 3 3
18 R 22 23 10 4 4
19 R 9 23 9 5 5
20 15 20 22 10 5 5


Professor will we carry on, as after spin 25 i think i and other members will benefit from you knowledge
Notto

Hi,

first of all:
the Limit after 13 spins is 24unhit. Their can´t appear mor than 13 0s in 13 spins!!!!!
possible are:
24 fast
25fast
26normal
27normal
28slow
29slow
....
due to the small variance we can´t do any other explanation:

This is my exspectation after those results:
24
25 stops most of time

26
27 we have to wait for a more specific site

28
and more it might go faster

Your trot:
25 11 1 is fast - might stop - wait
spin 14 - Yes it stops - bet for Full stop
spin 15 - win - Full Stop - it has to fasten up
spin 16 - it does
spin 17 - it does
spin 18 - it stopped -
now watch: 1 1 0 0 1 .. what can we exspect? of course a 1 and then a 0 0? If one is wrong we stop! (Check the count of 1s = 9 10 11 10 9 10 11 10 9 10 ..>... 11 10 9
spin 19 R win
spin 20  new win
spin 21 new - wait for spin

we have 3 0s and 4 1s - Our exspectation is (normal trot) for the next 5 spins: 8 0s
we have 5 1s - 4 from this part - that is normally done! But we have a full stopped trot-part
so we bet:
First a 0 as picked above - If lost we stop and watch again
If won we bet 1s twice
If won stopp and wait until spin 25; If it lost once stopp; Give it room to do what the trot likes

Evening Professor
Upto spin 25.
I often see after spin 20, 2x become 3x, Ktf info is for spins 21-30, we could  see 5,0x's and 5 repeats,so how to get that 3x, is the >1x at spin 20 the expected at spin 25, so with KTF spins 11-20,6,+1 just above average 5,0x only 3,0x's since 13, should we not be seeing more in spins 21-25 we must keep an eye on what the 1x's could do as this is nearest for a crossing to develop? KTF # 0x 1x >1x 2x >2x 3x >3x 4
1 5 36 1
2 18 35 2
3 12 34 3
4 15 33 4
5 26 32 5
6 16 31 6
7 11 30 7
8 36 29 8
9 R 36 29 7 1 1
10 9 28 8 1 1
11 10 0 27 9 1 1
12 11 33 26 10 1 1
13 12 35 25 11 1 1
14 R 26 25 10 2 2
15 R 0 25 9 3 3
16 13 3 24 10 3 3
17 14 22 23 11 3 3
18 R 22 23 10 4 4
19 R 9 23 9 5 5
20 15 20 22 10 5 5
21 R 11 22 9 6 6
22 16 6 21 10 6 6
23 R 12 21 9 7 7
24 R 26 21 9 7 6 1 1
25 17 4 20 10 7 6 1 1


I don´t really understand, what you are saying or asking.

I would just wait because the trot is slow and bet any crossings that appear 1vs>1, but I wouldnt bet the 1s to hit to chang to a crossing

I started to use the averages more to see "What is going on"

I uses these numbers for unhits 0x.
8 new numbers between spins 14 and 25
6 new numbers between spins 26 and 37
4 new numbers between spins 38 and 50

In combination to look at the flow of 0x and 1x I think this is really powerfull!

My question is, does it exist the same kind of numbers for 2x, 3x, 4x?
So you can better predict when those crossings arises? If you should bet on those or not.

- Tuddilue

Now you are getting there. How did Winkel arrive at, 8 new numbers between spins 14 and 25
                                                                                    6 new numbers between spins 26 and 37
By simulating 1000's of games ?

Me i'm no good at programming, so i built, manually a data base of my played games and got to averages of 7,5,3 for spins 11-40.
So knowing these averages you can make a decision for when to bet a non-hit(0x) or 1x or even a combination of them.
Why did Winkel give average info at 13,25,37 i reckon it was to go to the next phase of GUT, does he not say you could bet every spin if you can read the trot.

A bit on KTF, i only posted it to show how non-hit can be bet, i personally bet 0x and 1x according to the trot and taking in to account the LOTT.

Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 28, 03:23 AM 2016
Now you are getting there. How did Winkel arrive at, 8 new numbers between spins 14 and 25
                                                                                    6 new numbers between spins 26 and 37
By simulating 1000's of games ?

Me i'm no good at programming, so i built, manually a data base of my played games and got to averages of 7,5,3 for spins 11-40.
So knowing these averages you can make a decision for when to bet a non-hit(0x) or 1x or even a combination of them.
Why did Winkel give average info at 13,25,37 i reckon it was to go to the next phase of GUT, does he not say you could bet every spin if you can read the trot.

A bit on KTF, i only posted it to show how non-hit can be bet, i personally bet 0x and 1x according to the trot and taking in to account the LOTT.

Aha now I see the link.
7,5,3 is really good for spins 11-40.
8,6,4 is the same but more adapted to GUT.

So I'm just betting 0x and 1x crossings right now based on these averages.

But the question for me is how to do the same on 2x, 3x, 4x and more...
Does it exist some similar averages for these?

Because now I just follow the flow and tries to do an educated guess on these crossings. No betting just watching.
- Tuddilue

I found something that can be of help:
"The Law of the Third approximately 24 numbers hit, 12 numbers not hit, and 12 numbers hit more often than once in 37 spins."

So in 37 numbers 12 numbers hit more often than once.
If I remember correctly in the WTF thread we always talked about 9 1x in 37 spins so that makes it 3 numbers that hit 2 or more times.

So that can be an average that I can use in my tests. From 37-50 I can't find anything. But maybe time will tell.
-Tuddilue

How does one know which crossings to play?  Are there any rules are guidelines for this, or just personal preference?

Quote from: tuddilue on Sep 28, 07:59 AM 2016
I found something that can be of help:
"The Law of the Third approximately 24 numbers hit, 12 numbers not hit, and 12 numbers hit more often than once in 37 spins."

So in 37 numbers 12 numbers hit more often than once.
If I remember correctly in the WTF thread we always talked about 9 1x in 37 spins so that makes it 3 numbers that hit 2 or more times.

So that can be an average that I can use in my tests. From 37-50 I can't find anything. But maybe time will tell.
-Tuddilue

Have a look at posted sheets in holy grail by Azim you see 2x usually become 3x after spin 20,note, obviously they can become a 3x before spin 20, which is what the 1-4 number brigade are after

Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 28, 09:38 AM 2016
Have a look at posted sheets in holy grail by Azim you see 2x usually become 3x after spin 20,note, obviously they can become a 3x before spin 20, which is what the 1-4 number brigade are after

Ok do you now where it is?
Because the thread is big like 80 pages..
-Tuddilue

Quote from: Scarface on Sep 28, 08:35 AM 2016
How does one know which crossings to play?  Are there any rules are guidelines for this, or just personal preference?

It exists in the original GUT thread over at vlsroulette.
You can also read the GUT extension here at rouletteforum.
- Tuddilue

Quote from: tuddilue on Sep 28, 09:45 AM 2016
Ok do you now where it is?
Because the thread is big like 80 pages..
-Tuddilue

from around page 27

Could someone please explain me a bit better the slow, normal and fast trot?

This is for a normal trot
spin 13: 10-11 hit numbers 26 remaining
spin 25: 18-19 hit numbers 18 remaining
spin 37: 23-24 hit numbers 14 remaining
spin 50: 28-29 hit numbers 8 remaining

So on spin 13. We have 12 or more hit we have a fast trot. So far i understand.

Buuuuuuut....

From spin 14 till 25 is a new block. On AVG we expect to have 8 new number to hit. This part i find a bit tricky. When is a trot still fast? If it hits 8 or more new numbers? Or if we have a total of 20 or more numbers hit.

Example: We have hit 13 new number on spin 1 till 13. No repeats. So it's fast. From spin 14 till 25 we have 8 new numbers hit. That is normal. But on AVG we should have 18 or 19 numbers hit total on spin 25. We now have 21 numbers hit. Is it normal or fast?

Who could tell me better how i should read it?

Hello Ray
GUT is about the flow of the 0X's and then 1x's and >1x's, where they cross.
Now KTF is all about just 0x's, so there lies the similarity, the trot.

Countback can show you how fast the trot could be after spin 10.
On the attached is 40 spins just now on multi player.
You can see spins 1-10 had 7,0x's. KTF averages for spins 11-40 (30 spins) is 15.7 / 15.8 0x's, so i drop the point and have 15 to come in the next 30 spins. Half, so 1 0x every other spin as marked. So we could expect to see 22,0'xs by spin 40.
The small w is winkels points. okay.

So at spin 13, 10 have hit, the w says we could have 11 hit so 1 behind. But at spin 20 we show 14 have hit, countback the indicator of the expected 15,0x's, shows the 0x's have speeded up, 2 more than the expected 5. Of those 7 spins 4 are part of winkels expected.
Spins 21-30, is 0x straight away so still fast,3spins later another, now next spin is winkels point, we've seen 16 have come and 18 could be remaining, but theres only 16 0x's making 21 left, so the trot is slowing. Now next 5 spins,at 30 countback expects 17 to have come, but it must have speeded up as 19 have now hit.

Now a look into the future, what's expected at spin 37, the small w, also luck of the irish and winkel have shown we could expect to see 24 0x's.
So whats going to happen, if countback is right, then the trot should slow, but we still need 3,0x's in next 10 spins, so here like the Guvnor winkel says if not sure then don't bet, just watch.
GUT needs the 0x's to come to get to 24,0x's so the trot needs to speed up.
Well we can see it speeds up, gets 25,0x's about 96'000 of the 500'000 cycles(LOTT).
Countback shows its speeding up.
Attach 3 is just betting the 0x's +55 at spin 30.
So i don't know if this helps

That's alot of info. You use some different points and term then Winkel. So it's a bit confusing.

If i understand correct we got spin 13 25 37 50 to know if a trot is slow normal or fast. We use the blocks of spin to see if it's slowing down or speeding up.

Is that correct?

Ok, lets seperate the two ways of seeing 0x's.
First KTF.
KTF is just betting 0x's after spin 10 with +1/-1, stop 50/+50.
Whats learnt from KTF is the average that could happen in spins 11-40,
11-20  21-30   31-40  whats expected after a few thousand games of 60 spins? average usually seen is 7,0x's,+2, 12,0x's+2 and 15,0x's+0
7+2    12+2    15+0 (7,5,3)
Add countback, theres the reference to the trot.

Now GUT.
It's just about how the 0x's come(the trot). Here Winkel gives reference points to what could be expected at these points.

So if we're going to watch the trot, KTF would become WTF, as by watching the trot we are looking for the opportunity to bet,0x or 1x or a combination of those.
Ways to bet in WTF is watch the avg in the spins, if 7+2 is fair in 11-20 and say 6 have come and spins still to come heres the chance to pick up a repeat.

GUT has you watch the blocks as you say to watch the trot of the 0x. So what are you watching? Is it not the decrease of the 0x's and the 1x's increase to get to the betting opportunity (crossings) which are not always 0x's, later is it not the way the 1x's+>1x's cross. What is slow, normal and fast trot, do they not reference whether to bet the crossing, if 0x's have hit consecutively, would this not be fast, so would the crossing favour not betting, remember its your decision from watching the trot.

If thats wrong then i'd better go back to day one

On that multi player game, did we not get 7,+2 then 12,+2, the (7,5 and ?3)
what did countback show, that at spin 20 its fast, so it needs to slow down, how? buy getting repeats. These repeats that have to come, have i not said 3x's usually show after 20th spin look #30, what have i said up to 19th 0x  usually hit within 2 spins, theres the repeats and then the 0x came.
I made a mistake on the double 30 so we stop at spin 32 +58

Have a look in the avg doc in KTF, the 0x's averages will help on the trot.

I just wanted more info about GUT. i know about KTF and WTF.


I wanted to get more info about GUT if i should bet a crossing or not and what the best way is to know that.

- If we are in doubt. Dont bet
- If we lost 2 crossings: Jump
- If we bet the 0x but the 0x just had a run of 4 we dont bet.
- If the trot is fast bet the 0x crossings
- If the trot is slow bet all other crossings
- If trot is normal. Bet all crossings.

If anyone got more if these. please tell

Ray just popped out for some orange juice, so why miss the opportunity for some spins.
16 minutes +36 units watching the trot and countback,

I believe winkle is one of the best member who really offer real help to others point by point .