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Nectar
no-one will tell you if you are close to the truth or far away from it... (no-one told me either, but i learned by trial and error and listening to more experienced players) consider betting less numbers, and not using a long negative progression. You are very close to the truth, but your system need to be tweaked, and it has already been done,.. :thumbsup:
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 11, 03:56 AM 2017
no-one will tell you if you are close to the truth or far away from it... (no-one told me either, but i learned by trial and error and listening to more experienced players) consider betting less numbers, and not using a long negative progression. You are very close to the truth, but your system need to be tweaked, and it has already been done,.. :thumbsup:
Totally agree with the two parts that I have highlighted in your quote above.
I give credit to Mr J and Denzie for emphasizing bet selection strategies that require betting on fewer numbers, especially ones that seem to be warm or hot.
Of course, old habits are difficult to get rid of and, in spite of the validity of the above, I still bet frequently on single doz/col and double doz/col, albeit only with flat bets.
And as for realizing how futile and destructive long negative progressions are to my bankroll, I give full credit to the School of Real Life Hard Knocks for driving home that message to me !
I'll do it my way. With the above info on FOBT 26 spins +55 units. You need to know a non-hits max, there avg is a piece of piss. So its just watch the trot of the non-hit, remember i play on FOBT 99.9% of my time, so see what can come on the mickey mouse roulette :smile:
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 11, 03:56 AM 2017
no-one will tell you if you are close to the truth or far away from it... (no-one told me either, but i learned by trial and error and listening to more experienced players) consider betting less numbers, and not using a long negative progression. You are very close to the truth, but your system need to be tweaked, and it has already been done,.. :thumbsup:
I'm glad you never gave up Ignatus.
It took nine years of trial and error to realize what you just said now.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 11, 03:56 AM 2017
no-one will tell you if you are close to the truth or far away from it... (no-one told me either, but i learned by trial and error and listening to more experienced players) consider betting less numbers, and not using a long negative progression. You are very close to the truth, but your system need to be tweaked, and it has already been done,.. :thumbsup:
Don't use any negative progression.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 11, 03:56 AM 2017
no-one will tell you if you are close to the truth or far away from it... (no-one told me either, but i learned by trial and error and listening to more experienced players) consider betting less numbers, and not using a long negative progression. You are very close to the truth, but your system need to be tweaked, and it has already been done,.. :thumbsup:
I will tell you how close you are to the truth. So will others. The problem is most people don't want to listen. They want to find out for themselves. But even when i explain how to do this, the advice is usually ignored.
Forgot progression. You need to increase accuracy of predictions. Change the odds. Its the only way. There are likely more ways to do that than with methods i use
Steve is right. If the selection doesnot win then progression wont win. Why plAy with online rng? Lets go to b and m rng and try to make some money. Its a loser to the real condition whatever heavenly rule is applied doesnt matter.and yes if a single number with $20 doesnt show up in 37 spin u will never come back .and this happen very often.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 12, 07:43 AM 2017You need to increase accuracy of predictions. Change the odds. Its the only way.
Thanks Steve, well, the only thing I know, IS that numbers always hit in clusters on the wheel, Question is how to catch these numbers hit in clusters,.. some bet hotnumbers/repeaters, others wheel-neighbours too,.. how far is that from the truth? You tell me Steve? ^^ another way is chosing the right amount to bet, if you run a test in RX for an example you see a straight downtrend if betting 10 or more numbers....and 2-4 numbers the chart usually have an uptrend, (atleast for a certain time)....well, that's pretty much all i know (for sure?), :D i want to know, Steve if you can tell me, how many numbers you bet,? (if that's not top-secret?) Thanks
The amount of numbers to bet for maximum profit per hour depends on the wheel. In most cases its about 15 numbers. But that doesn't matter. You are thinking along the wrong lines.
Look for ways to increase accuracy of predictions. I use common physics. And actually im sure there are better ways but i focus on the most obvious solution.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 12, 08:35 AM 2017Look for ways to increase accuracy of predictions. I use common physics.
Alright, but then you have your theory of "dominant diamonds"? you can predict that a cluster will be formed.... cluster-theory, is the only wheel-theory i know,.... ??? ofcourse i've seen these cluster formed, then the clusters change position etc....it's a shifting target
Quote from: Steve on Jun 12, 08:35 AM 2017You are thinking along the wrong lines.
Really?? Why do you have the dominant diamond theory?? I really want an explanation, if you're saying im thinking at the wrong lines, hotnumbers and clusters hit on the wheel doesn't matter at all?? :/
Quote from: Steve on Jun 12, 08:35 AM 2017In most cases its about 15 numbers. But that doesn't matter
Sure as hell it matters. 15 number you can bet 2 times then it's a drawdown. I wouldn't call that "increase the accuracy". Follow your own advice. xD
Quote from: Steve on Jun 12, 07:43 AM 2017I will tell you how close you are to the truth
Really?? Then could you answer my questions....you won't? Stop lying, :/
One end of the spectrum.
"A number can't appear 2 times unless it's shown once. A number can't appear 3 times unless it's shown twice. A number can't appear 4 times unless it's shown 3 times, etc--This leaves readers with one possible path to work on -Repeaters. Any repeater has the potential to be a hot number thus profit. Any cold number / sleeper has the potential to be a long term sleepers / cold number and should be avoided at all cost." ~TG
The start of TG's spectrum, but to appear twice it has to appear once, like 19 of them :ooh: +117, but do take the early profit, now thats smart :thumbsup:
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so knowing this is a waste of time
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up to 19th take on avg 2 spins, it happens, the above happens as in the other reply.
Ignatus, i just saw your responses. Ill give full details soon.
I've explained it many other times before too. Its not opinion. Its not ego. Its just reality. I didn't make the rules.
Ps regarding parxonline, could you profit if every day the casino gave you thousand of dollars for clicking a button? obvious answer.
If you are interested in the truth i can help. But you need to forget an old way of thinking.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 13, 09:04 AM 2017Ignatus, i just saw your responses. Ill give full details soon.
Alright thanks. Looking forward to your answer.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 13, 10:02 AM 2017
Alright thanks. Looking forward to your answer.
You'll get nothing, plug away with what you do, you'll find away to read the game. Said before starts with non-hit, then the 1x's start to get in the mix,listen to Winkel learn the trot.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 08:20 AM 2017Thanks Steve, well, the only thing I know, IS that numbers always hit in clusters on the wheel
Exactly how do you know this?
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 08:20 AM 2017Question is how to catch these numbers hit in clusters
If you tell me more about what you mean, I can tell you if it's a valid theory or not. I keep saying its not my "opinion". Its just what is.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 08:20 AM 2017some bet hotnumbers/repeaters, others wheel-neighbours too
The whole concept of "repeaters" that I've seen discussed on forums is nonsense. You can not know which numbers might repeat with any change in odds. Like the law of a third. Test tonnes of spins and see if you can know WHICH numbers repeat with better than 1 in 37 odds. Thre law of a third and repeaters is pure gamblers fallacy.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 08:20 AM 2017another way is chosing the right amount to bet, if you run a test in RX for an example you see a straight downtrend if betting 10 or more numbers....and 2-4 numbers the chart usually have an uptrend, (atleast for a certain time)....well, that's pretty much all i know (for sure?)
Generally the fewer numbers you bet, the higher your possible edge. But it really depends on the method you are using. For example with ballistic methods like roulette computers, the optimal edge is either 1-3 numbers. BUT the edge is not everything. What matetrs most is profit per hour, and on most wheels it is around 15 numbers. Rarely can you have time to bet that many with something like roulette computers, but you dont need that many numbers anyway.
With bias analysis, the best amount of numbers depends on how many numbers are biased.
With methods like law of a third, it makes NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. Because the approach does not change the odds. For each individual number, the odds are still 1 in 37. So what have you changed? Absolutely nothing, except the amount you lose over the long term (because the more you bet, the more you lose). So you can bet 1 number or 18 numbers, it doesnt matter. If you bet 18 numbers, thats the same as 18 different people each betting one number.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 08:46 AM 2017Alright, but then you have your theory of "dominant diamonds"? you can predict that a cluster will be formed.... cluster-theory, is the only wheel-theory i know,.... ofcourse i've seen these cluster formed, then the clusters change position etc....it's a shifting target
Dominant diamonds are not a theory. They are a plain fact anyone can see. Dominant diamonds dont change so quickly unless the wheel is re-calibrated. If you see them change, then this is simply variance over the short term. If you checked a wheel for 30 or so spins on one direction, then compared the spins of an extra 30 or so spins, you'll find the dominant diamond will almost certainly be the same.
Dominant diamonds has nothing to do with cluster theory. I think you are referring to "streaks". Like the expectation that you'll never get 37 different numbers in 37 spins. Because actually you will if you see enough spins. Like you might never see the sequence of spins 0,1,2,3,4,5 but you have probably never seen this either: 32,1,19,2,0,9,19. Each sequence will happen the same amount of times over the long term. The wheel doesnt give a crap what sequence makes sense in your mind. The winning numbers are what they are because of cause and effect, and not some pattern made up in your mind.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 09:28 AM 2017I really want an explanation, if you're saying im thinking at the wrong lines, hotnumbers and clusters hit on the wheel doesn't matter at all?? :/
I explained it above. There are circumstances where "clusters" may be legitimate patterns. But for the vast majority of spins, the clusters are meaningless. The winning number is an EFFECT of the CAUSES. If you want to predict roulette spins and change the odds, then analyze a combination of both the effects and the causes (the winning numbers AND the conditions that caused the winning numbers.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 12, 10:46 AM 2017Sure as hell it matters. 15 number you can bet 2 times then it's a drawdown. I wouldn't call that "increase the accuracy".
When your odds of winning havent changed for each individual number, changing the amount of numbers you bet, or the size of units, will only change the amount you lose over the long term.
So much of what happens in roulette is an illusion. But the science behind it all is actually really simple.
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 13, 07:12 AM 2017"A number can't appear 2 times unless it's shown once. A number can't appear 3 times unless it's shown twice. A number can't appear 4 times unless it's shown 3 times, etc--This leaves readers with one possible path to work on -Repeaters. Any repeater has the potential to be a hot number thus profit. Any cold number / sleeper has the potential to be a long term sleepers / cold number and should be avoided at all cost." ~TG
Utter BS. That approach is completely wrong. It does not change the odds of winning on each individual number. It is a "0" in the equation. When there is a 0 anywhere in the equation with multiplication, then NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
For example: 34 x 343 x 64 x456364 x 0 = ZERO
TG is misleading people about his approaches and parxonline. Parx starts off by giving you loads of free credits. To work your way up the ladder, all you need to do is play more than other people, but not too much. Even if you lose, you get free credits the next day. But generally the more you play, the higher up the ladder you get.
It's like a casino that gives you free money every day, whether you win or lose. This means you are guaranteed to profit. TG would know this, and is misleading people.
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 13, 04:24 PM 2017You'll get nothing, plug away with what you do, you'll find away to read the game. Said before starts with non-hit, then the 1x's start to get in the mix,listen to Winkel learn the trot
I;ve played roulette twice now and read a good website about roulette. I know my stuff.
Actually I havent seen any information to back up claims winkel has anything of substance. Its nothing personal. I'd like to be proven wrong.
I'm not a "math boy". I'm an "I understand basic logic" boy.
@steve
I run two cycle of 37 spin and see every time couple of number move from 4s to 5s. Say max 5 number. I can see the fact. Can you explain plz where is the falacy?
QuoteCan you explain plz where is the falacy?
i would love to learn too..
Quote from: Madi on Jun 13, 08:26 PM 2017I run two cycle of 37 spin and see every time couple of number move from 4s to 5s. Say max 5 number. I can see the fact. Can you explain plz where is the falacy?
You can consider cycles of 10, 20, 37 spins or whatever. The odds any number spinning next is still 1 in 37. And the payout for single numbers is still 35-1.
You could see how many times a number has hit in the past 100 spins. Or a number might have won twice in a row. It doesnt matter. The odds of any number spinning next is STILL 1 IN 37.
You could look at what numbers have repeated in a 37 spin cycle (the hot numbers) and bet on them. But it makes sweet FA difference because the odds of each of those numbers spinning on the next spin is still 1 in 37.
Thinking otherwise is the fallacy.
Again this is not my opinion. It is not me trying to sell roulette computers. It is just plain old reality.
I even released free software for people to test for themselves. It was to save people from going in circles.
A recent thread here is about fractals. Whether or not it is valid theory to change the odds (increase accuracy of predictions) is yet to be seen. By at least it appears to the the road less traveled.
QuoteI run two cycle of 37 spin and see every time couple of number move from 4s to 5s. Say max 5 number
I can see that you hold onto what you see and say "it's just fact". But you are not considering the rest of the story. Keep in mind that:
1. Any combination of numbers to spin in a row will happen just as much as any other combination.
2. Eventually it's inevitable that some numbers will repeat. After the first spin, there's a 1 in 37 chance that the same number will spin again. Then after 2 numbers appeared, there would be a 2 in 37 chance that one would repeat, then 3 in 37 etc. So eventually sure there will be repeats. It is meaningless and just basic statistics.
A statistician would think the idea of using repeaters is ridiculous.
Anyone that says they can beat a math game with math and repeaters has no clue what they are saying. It is just like saying "
I can change the odds without changing the odds by using the science that proves you can't change the odds, by using perfectly normal and expected statistical behavior that in no way changes the odds". It's a really twisted thing to say.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 14, 12:36 AM 2017It doesnt matter. The odds of any number spinning next is STILL 1 IN 37.
I know this can't be true. The ODDS are the same yes, but the *probability* is not the same. Thing is you're bashing everything we know to be true, what we're been struggling for, for many years, and *still you don't give any clues of any other solution*...what your "top secret" method is, i look at THE WHEEL and it outcomes, and you can't deny the fact that numbers will ALWAYS hit in clusters, and that certain numbers will ALWAYS repeat...
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 14, 01:58 AM 2017I know this can't be true. The ODDS are the same yes, but the *probability* is not the same.
Odds and probability are exactly the same thing.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 14, 01:58 AM 2017Thing is you're bashing everything we know to be true
I'm not bashing anything. I'm just explaining irrefutable facts. Again this is not my opinion. If you dont believe me, then like i said, do loads of testing with whatever "bet selection" algorithm you want. Test a statically relevant amount of spins. 30 or so spins tells you nothing in this type of testing.
You will find the odds of one number spinning next is still 1 in 37. This is my point. Dont debate it further, just test.
When you see the odds/probability hasn't changed, think if you havent changed the odds/probability, and the payout is still only 35-1, then what have you changed?? You have changed nothing at all.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 14, 01:58 AM 2017*still you don't give any clues of any other solution*
What do you mean? I have given it in plain english many times.
I have developed a few different ways to predict roulette spins. The logic behind roulette computers is easy to understand. But maybe you're referring to my other method I call "cross referencing". This is not a mystery. I've explained it many times before. I use all significant data to correlate it to all data. I cross reference the data to what's significant, whats insignificant etc. And the analysis uncovers anomalies that can be used to increase accuracy of predictions.
My system is not a "system" like other gambling systems. It is a type of statistical analysis.
An example of cross referencing with traditional AP is like with bias analysis. You might check bias over 5000 spins by looking only at the winning numbers. You might not find a bias. But then separate the spins into different directions. Also separate them into type of ball, and rotor speed, and so on. This is called "data segregation". And when you get more specific data, you uncover things you would have easily missed. Another way of looking at is detailed information is more useful than vague information.
There's nothing special about segregation. My cross reference method models the relationship between all the variables and winning numbers to create a dynamic model. So when conditions and variables change, winning numbers can be predicted - at least with a slight increase in accuracy.
I will not reveal exactly how the cross referencing works. But I will explain it uses permutations. A typical analysis of 300 spins is about 4 billion permutations.
I've actually explained it many times. It is not some big mystery of hocus pocus. It is plain simple logic, science and math.
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 14, 01:58 AM 2017you can't deny that numbers will ALWAYS hit in clusters, and that certain numbers will ALWAYS repeat
You have missed my point again.
Numbers will "probably" repeat. But so what? Can you know WHICH will repeat with better than 1 in 37 accuracy? NO, YOU CANT.
So like I said, you havent changed the odds. Haven't changed the probability. The payouts are still the same. So you've actually changed NOTHING.
Everyone needs to start looking at roulette for what it actually is - a wheel and ball. The winning number is an effect. Start looking at cause and effect.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 14, 02:17 AM 2017My system is not a "system" like other gambling systems. It is a type of statistical analysis.
An example of cross referencing with traditional AP is like with bias analysis. You might check bias over 5000 spins by looking only at the winning numbers. My cross reference method models the relationship between all the variables and winning numbers to create a dynamic model.winning numbers can be predicted - at least with a slight increase in accuracy.
OK thanks for your reply, now i understand you better. You use statistics, you're looking for hot-numbers/hot-sectors, yes... but you don't call them "hot numbers", you call then "winning numbers"ok
Quote from: ignatus on Jun 14, 02:33 AM 2017you're looking for hot-numbers/hot-sectors, yes... but you don't call them "hot numbers", you call then "winning numbers"ok
NO, NOT AT ALL.Also, the only time playing "hot sectors" is valid is when there is a bias (ie from a physical defect). But you cant determine bias from just the past few spins. Not even 100 spins. The bare minimum is about 400 spins and that would requite a large sector bias like half the wheel. That kind of bias comes from a rotor wobble.
after all that how you changed the odds, payout still the same.
Steve is right notto you can not doit this way. Try to beat Steves mpr game it has many biasis.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 14, 02:17 AM 2017You might check bias over 5000 spins by looking only at the winning numbers.(..) winning numbers can be predicted - at least with a slight increase in accuracy.
You're not betting for "hotnumbers", no you're betting for "winning numbers" OK, what's the difference, really??
MumboJumbo
i am with nobheadsinthehouse, as with all the other user names, yes he's right, but when you watch the trot to bet for either a repeat or non-hit, then the sheet works fine.
Problem is just the time allowed to bet and we know why he nipped 15 seconds, so to stop big spreads on singles.
If he's giving touchscreen options like at B+M then this one is missing the remove chip option.
The only way you in crease accuracy on non-hit is to know there avg to hit and the max you have seen them take to hit.
Anyway you'll just keep banging your heads on the wall with all this trying to perfect accuracy, whilst you lot do that, i'll just carry on watching the trot
Ignatus, i don't play bias. I was using it as an example. But there's still a big difference between typical hot number and proper bias analysis.
Notto, wtf is a trot exactly? Can you give an example?
its simple you just watch the starting 37 #'s. Take in what the sheet says, if you're an extra cautious person, just sit out the spins,which is costing nothing in a B+M, if any non-hit then reaches the max, then start to bet.
Just been on MPR 16 spins +15 units just watching the trot.
Only trouble on your game is the unrealistic 30 seconds, even Aspers gives 40 seconds on there shitty touchscreens.
Aspers there the biggest cleverest bunch of c unts, if you want to know why go to one of there B+M's, if you've got any brains you'll understand what they've achieved,with you using the touchscreens, wont be long till Grosvenor, Genting and the other B+M's follow suit
is there a specific algorithm that determines what the trot is, and what to bet?
Quote from: Steve on Jun 14, 06:12 AM 2017
is there a specific algorithm that determines what the trot is how would i know i'm no maths whiz, , and what to bet? What to bet, you just bet the non-hit, but you need to know something about how over 37 to 40 spins, non-hit can come or distributed as the math guys would say.
Now i've posted umpteen sheets showing the trot, i've even gone as far as, to show how to use the non-hit with ROTT, Riddle Of The Trot.
Back to you steve, oh i suppose you'll say it dont change the odds etc; correct, but what the sheet shows is avg, i'll take it all day long, the more games played the more accurate that avg and max becomes.
Morts #'s non-hit,+50, or take 1st profit
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Game over man, even at spin 100 still in profit, game over man, the late Bill Paxton
Bill is dead? I don't watch tv news its stupid.
Bugger he was one of my favorites.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 14, 06:56 AM 2017
Bill is dead? I don't watch tv news its stupid.
Bugger he was one of my favorites.
Brilliant in aliens
. You will find the odds of one number spinning next is still 1 in 37. This is my point. Dont debate it further, just test.
How does ur computer change this odd in next spin where the payout 1:35. How does the computer increase the accuracy where nothing can tell what is the next spin?
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 14, 07:05 AM 2017Brilliant in aliens
Yes and that's one of my all-time favorite movies.
Quote from: Madi on Jun 14, 07:19 AM 2017How does ur computer change this odd in next spin where the payout 1:35. How does the computer increase the accuracy where nothing can tell what is the next spin?
Of course there are ways of predicting the next spin. Just not with methods that don't work.
Roulette computers measure the speed of the rotor and ball to predict where the ball will land. There's a lot more to it, but this is the basic explanation. It is the most direct and logical way to predict spins. There are other ways, but this approach is most accurate.
Some people think I'm biased towards roulette computers for personal reasons. The truth is simpler. They just work best. Can anyone think of a more direct approach to predict winning numbers? (without interfering with the wheel) I'd say precognition, and that's why I developed the app to develop methods (speaking of which we need to do testing soon).
Some people might also say i'm biased to AP. Actually AP is just a term for "what works". There is always this BS rift between APs and system players. The APs dont care about a system player's approach. But they'll often try to explain why some approaches wont work, and this is perceived as arrogance.
So is your computer correct everytime? Does it suggest flat bet? How can you use that in casino . They even dont allow phone there.how many number ur computer bet each time?
Quote from: Madi on Jun 14, 08:35 PM 2017So is your computer correct everytime?
No and it doesnt need to be. How is 93% win rate with 3 neighbor bets (15 numbers)? See the video at link:s://:.roulette-computers.com/ (public group demo). Its about a +120% edge, when the house edge is just -2.7%
Quote from: Madi on Jun 14, 08:35 PM 2017Does it suggest flat bet?
You can either flat bet or use progression. You get few losing streaks so progression is safe enough.
Quote from: Madi on Jun 14, 08:35 PM 2017How can you use that in casino
The same way it is used in a demo, except it is never visible in the casino
Quote from: Madi on Jun 14, 08:35 PM 2017They even dont allow phone there
Ive never not been allowed a phone in the casino. Its only a problem if you use it out in the open while playing, but it is all hidden.
Quote from: Madi on Jun 14, 08:35 PM 2017how many number ur computer bet each time?
Anywhere from 1 to 15 in most cases. The most you will typically "need" to bet is 3 numbers.
Anyway let's not discuss my computers here. You can contact me privately or start another thread if you want to know, or just see my sites.
Ok will see the vedio. Seems to me u r very rich by now using that.👍
You wouldnt believe me if I told you. But winning approach or not, the limit is still what the casino will let you win, before doing something about you. In some casinos, it might only be a few thousand dollars. Most of my more successful partners plat high stakes with often $10k+ per spin. But its not something you can do every day. Avoiding detection is the main issue.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 14, 09:26 PM 2017
You wouldnt believe me if I told you. But winning approach or not, the limit is still what the casino will let you win, before doing something about you. In some casinos, it might only be a few thousand dollars. Most of my more successful partners plat high stakes with often $10k+ per spin. But its not something you can do every day. Avoiding detection is the main issue.
I have no problem to use the phone OPENLY at the electronic tables, not allowed at the manual tables. The difference is the manual table max is >=10times the electronic tables - &1000usd per spin even bets.
But max bet even at the electronic tables will give a huge profit over time. The real limit is the million mark. I don't know if they'll do something since they have the entire betting history, hope not. Btw there're guys who do walk off with a few 100k in a day, so lets see...