link:s://:.thepennyhoarder.com/make-money/side-gigs/roulette-odds-strategy-one-man-won-80000/
Quote
You Need a Big Bias
Even if you find a wheel that is biased it may not have enough of a bias to profitably exploit if you want to make more than minimum wage.
If a busy dealer does only 20 spins per hour and you have a number coming in 1 in 34 spins, with a $10 bet each time you’ll make about $11.76 per hour while at the table, or less than minimum wage considering the time you invest charting the wheel and waiting for a seat to open up. Sam would only bet a number if it came in more often that 1 in 33 spins after a few thousand trials.
(link:s://media3.giphy.com/media/Hhbea19lrGa9G/giphy.gif)
Casinos know about biased wheels. they replace and move them
To think in 2018 you can exploit hundreds of them across the country is lunacy
Perhaps wheel bias players win merely due to luck, if at all
Maybe they populate forums to deter players
(link:s://i.makeagif.com/media/12-02-2015/h6WvIi.gif)
If someone can tell me what wheel is “biased†at resorts world in queens I can surely go verify :thumbsup:
In 2018 Biased wheels are all but a myth
Quote
TCS John Huxley, the premier manufacturer of Roulette wheels, also makes the sensor and history display. At the same time, they make software to track and report possible wheel bias, among other things.
Dangerous and misleading information from people that claim to show charts of a bias could merely be the random wheel
Numbers hitting above expectation doesn’t mean the wheel is defective
(link:s://i.imgur.com/v6dFs83.gif)
Ghost,
In order to find and beat such a non existent wheel you have to be...
1. Very observant
2. Very smart
3. Incredibly handsome.
(link:s://media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2018/04/06/imagev1bdd138dbfae9023bcb2d80ed0d263f2f-d5gollmgogb3jx6y1q2_ct677x380.jpg)
Looking around the forum, the only person that comes to mind is ME.
You should probably try slots instead. ;)
Today’s wheels are tested extensively to prevent them from becoming biased. Most of the wheels also have much more shallow pockets than wheels did in the past and the roulette ball tends to bounce much more than in the past â€" making it harder for a wheel to develop a bias in the first place. So while biased wheels exist, they are more on the order of Bigfoot than they are on the order of, say, a pigeon.
It’s like finding Bigfoot
(link:s://media3.giphy.com/media/10jOyd7c2iGv1S/giphy.gif)
The idea that one can beat the casino with the technological advances of today’s day and age is ABSURD
Software and sensors detect biased wheels.
(link:s://media0.giphy.com/media/2jBf7NFAWZlny/giphy.gif)
The idea of biased wheels that are biased enough to make a living, is dishonesty at its finest
These casinos monitor these wheels. They know of bias immediately
We have a Pinocchio on our hands
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/1TBnbnnZeOgs8/giphy.gif)
Remember folks: a bias isn’t enough. It has to be a BIG bias
There is no chance there is a high number of biased wheels with today’s technology
Time for this charade to end
The claims of the “biased wheel†players are on par with astrologists and flat earthers.
There is no chance that there are biased wheels across the country in different cities that would actually make it worth it
It’s a bad of a myth as:
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/5mg1Vr5e1HY9G/giphy.gif)
(link:s://media3.giphy.com/media/qGS2Wbjr0SJWg/giphy.gif)
The General is the funniest guy in this forum. I love this guy! Lol
Quote from: Andre Chass on Apr 15, 08:57 PM 2018
I love this guy! Lol
I mean that’s some low standards....
Quote from: Andre Chass on Apr 15, 08:57 PM 2018
The General is the funniest guy in this forum. I love this guy! Lol
QuoteI mean that’s some low standards....
(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/1b0c5a64115df0e38d98f2af668cecb6/tenor.gif?itemid=7363101)
Evil, funny, virile, vigorous, potent, ingenious, low standards, and incredibly handsome. What more can I add?
The vampire likes to lure in victims with false claims, then suck the blood.
The truth and nothing but the truth
To succeed with bias, it needs to be a LARGE bias
This is very few and far between. Not common
Casinos have counter measures and software systems in place to direct any potential bias
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 15, 09:21 PM 2018
The truth and nothing but the truth
To succeed with bias, it needs to be a LARGE bias
This is very few and far between. Not common
Casinos have counter measures and software systems in place to direct any potential bias
(link:s://ricknarrington.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/untitled.jpg)
Exactly! Slots are a much better option for some people. "Winner winner chicken dinner."
Statistically speaking, you would win on a slot machine before finding a wheel biased enough to be worth your time
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/GCLlQnV7wzKLu/giphy.gif)
Well...reasoned argument vs. "I am handsome"
Thats a RG home win for me
Better use of annoying gifs also :thumbsup:
Don't the casinos detect biased wheels only after a large number of spins? So what about the biases that can be detected visually and / or audibly by players? Those should require shorter samples for confirmation, and wheels could be exploited before maintainance, I think.
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 16, 04:34 AM 2018
Don't the casinos detect biased wheels only after a large number of spins? So what about the biases that can be detected visually and / or audibly by players? Those should require shorter samples for confirmation, and wheels could be exploited before maintainance, I think.
Its all explained in Barnharts modern book "Beating the wheel"
Written 1997 :o
Well they're beating wheels, not 'random', since Jagger more than a hundred years ago, so comparatively speaking it's quite recent...
My nearest casino has all TCS and the auto detection skips a number from time to time. Plus on a table that is not very busy and there are no winnings to pay , the dealer hurries up and spins the wheel before it has made a complete turn so the auto detect is not infalible. Pitbosses still have to write down the numbers on sheets of paper. It leads me to believe it's just marketing blurb not to be taken seriously.
Rg, i get what you're trying to do. But unfortunately your information is inaccurate.
The wheel manufacturers are full of shit. Their glossy brochures and sales material arent accurate. Most wheels are not hard to beat one way or another. The real problem is avoiding detection.
Its actually much harder to create a wheel with truly random spins than it is for a player to have slightly accurate predictions, even with a rough technique.
Regarding bias, a large bias is not required. A -2.7% is small but can lose you tens of thousands. Card counters can make millions from a 2% edge. To a professional roulette player, 2% is a joke.
There are enough biased wheels to do well with, even today. But i still find the work no comparison to other methods, excluding computers.
One of the few things i disagree with caleb about is his preference of vb & bias. Even with visual or sound confirmation, bias can take a long time for a small edge. Whereas with computers you can get a 80% within a few spins. And vb is a roundabout messy way to do what a computer does effortlessly. Biased wheels are common enough to still be viable, if using visual and sound confirmation. But its still a very hard slog compared to a computer that's mostly legal despite being forbidden by casinos. Illegal and forbidden are not the same. Besides that, i find what caleb preaches is accurate. The people who wrote the site you mentioned are not experts.
Caleb may be a poser who has never won a cent. I don't know him beyond forums. He may be totally full of shit. But if we're judging based on knowledge alone, he's actually correct and like i said i agree with almost everything he says. Hes not the only one with good knowledge on forums. Its just that most people in forums are still stuck on rubbish like repeaters. None of it is opinion. Theres only one reality i know of, and its rules regarding roulette are not that complicated.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 08:56 AM 2018
Rg, i get what you're trying to do. But unfortunately your information is inaccurate.
The wheel manufacturers are full of shit. Their glossy brochures and sales material arent accurate. Most wheels are not hard to beat one way or another. The real problem is avoiding detection.
Its actually much harder to create a wheel with truly random spins than it is for a player to have slightly accurate predictions, even with a rough technique.
Regarding bias, a large bias is not required. A -2.7% is small but can lose you tens of thousands. Card counters can make millions from a 2% edge. To a professional roulette player, 2% is a joke.
One of the few things i disagree with caleb about is his preference of vb & bias. Even with visual or sound confirmation, bias can take a long time for a small edge. Whereas with computers you can get a 80% within a few spins. And vb is a roundabout messy way to do what a computer does effortlessly. Biased wheels are common enough to still be viable, if using visual and sound confirmation. But its still a very hard slog compared to a computer that's mostly legal despite being forbidden by casinos. Illegal and forbidden are not the same. Besides that, i find what caleb preaches is accurate. The people who wrote the site you mentioned are not experts.
Caleb may be a poser who has never won a cent. I don't know him beyond forums. He may be totally full of shit. But if we're judging based on knowledge alone, he's actually correct and like i said i agree worth almost everything he says. None of it is opinion. Theres only one reality i know of, and its rules regarding roulette are not that complicated.
Exactly !!!!!
The real problem is to avoid detection !
But how ?
You guys are nuts
You don’t have to avoid detection
If in fact the wheel was biased you could win and they would just think you we’re lucky that day
The avoid detection thing is bs
Rg sorry you're incorrect. Casino surveillance is very focused on detection of consistent winners. They know their games are vulnerable.
If it weren't for casino surveillance, i could literally earn $1m+ per session. But because of casino surveillance we're limited to a small fraction.
Its not hard to avoid detection if you win just a few thousand. Its easy in average casinos. But winning more requires ideal conditions and careful planning.
Rg, your statement is nut!
Casino will not let you keep winning all the time, you can be lucky one, two,three times but not every day !
The point is still critical to AP players, How to avoid detection ?
Exactly!!
Put your cheating device in fancy pants to avoid detection.
Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 16, 09:15 AM 2018
Exactly!!
Put your cheating device in fancy pants to avoid detection.
Good tip but old !
Some guys tried it, they even wore "slips" instead of pants, but they got detected
-:)
Quote from: Lucky7Red on Apr 16, 09:15 AM 2018
Exactly!!
Put your cheating device in fancy pants to avoid detection.
Avoiding detection has nothing to do with my hardware. A player could be using my hybrid computer right in front of you and you wouldn't have any idea. The camera has a pinhole lens, and doesn't even need to be at the table. The standard lens alone has enough zoom to be 20m from the wheel.
You could be strip searched and still they'd find nothing unusual. They could even check every part of the phone and still not find anything suspicious.
Avoiding detection is not complicated but there are many parts to it. Its not difficult unless you try winning too much too soon for your target casino
.. But still we never break laws. We could easily but we don't. There are plenty of legal jurisdictions.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 09:20 AM 2018
Avoiding detection has nothing to do with my hardware. A player could be using my hybrid computer right in front of you and you wouldn't have any idea. The camera has a pinhole lens, and doesn't even need to be at the table. The standard lens alone has enough zoom to be 20m from the wheel.
You could be strip searched and still they'd find nothing unusual. They could even check every part of the phone and still not find anything suspicious.
Avoiding detection is not complicated but there are many parts to it. Its not difficult unless you try winning too much too soon for your target casino
two points :
1- casino are forbidding users to use their phone, so fancy about a computer device !
2- how much is too much ?
Do u think 300 a day net profit is Headed to banning ?
I am not the one that is wrong
Avoid detection? Paranoid?
Listen, I will agree you can’t go in and make 20 grand a day
Have to be smart
Few thousand here and there and you won’t be “detectedâ€
If you are really smart you’d have some losing days.
Rg
As usual, from you come only good tips, thx appreciated !
I am though interested to hear the baccaratbeaters troop, especially Andre Chas's, on how he's managing his winnings and avoiding detection
Here are the facts.
Properties in Macau and Singapore, bet size of usd$1-2k per hand is normal in the public area. You get to see people win $20++k per session.
High rollers casino, usd$2-10k per hand. Normal to see members with $25k chip containers. Ofc there are the occasional higher bets.
About cellphones, not allowed near the tables.
If you use cheating electronic device you get banned. If you tresspass you go behind bars.
Surveillance is top notch. Just look up the ceiling for the eye in the sky that's everywhere except the restrooms.
I use to forget to take the cash from the casino atm, report and money returned to me within the day, that's how efficient. The same thing happened at the electronic table games, report to pitboss received a call one hour later to collect cash.
Quote from: cht on Apr 16, 10:44 AM 2018
Here are the facts.
Properties in Macau and Singapore, bet size of usd$1-2k per hand is normal in the public area. You get to see people win $20++k per session.
High rollers casino, usd$2-10k per hand. Normal to see members with $25k chip containers. Ofc there are the occasional higher bets.
About cellphones, not allowed near the tables.
If you use cheating electronic device you get banned. If you tresspass you go behind bars.
Surveillance is top notch. Just look up the ceiling for the eye in the sky that's everywhere except the restrooms.
I use to forget to take the cash from the casino atm, report and money returned to me within the day, that's how efficient. The same thing happened at the electronic table games, report to pitboss received a call one hour later to collect cash.
Cht, thx for the info.
Are you living in Singapore ?
I am in Europe, I have no idea how the EU casinos are run
If andre is being truthful then winning what he wins wouldn’t get him banned
Guys please stop with the “being detected†paranoia. It’s hog wash and I don’t know why Steve harps on it
People in my casino win big often. On airball
If you win 20k a day that might draw a flag but that’s stupid.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 11:11 AM 2018
If andre is being truthful then winning what he wins wouldn’t get him banned
Guys please stop with the “being detected†paranoia. It’s hog wash and I don’t know why Steve harps on it
People in my casino win big often. On airball
If you win 20k a day that might draw a flag but that’s stupid.
I agree.
My casino buddies wins and lose millions among them. This win $x thousand a day you get ban is plain nonsense.
If you win big you will be invited to their VIP platinum club for whales.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 11:11 AM 2018
If andre is being truthful then winning what he wins wouldn’t get him banned
Guys please stop with the “being detected†paranoia. It’s hog wash and I don’t know why Steve harps on it
People in my casino win big often. On airball
If you win 20k a day that might draw a flag but that’s stupid.
Rg, you really should change your avatar and put a picture of lion instead -:)
We are system players, better say routine platers, we play everyday, you can't compare us with your Chinese mates who play airball at your land based casino, they are there once a week or more...
I thought the OT was about biased wheels, not about exposure to casino surveillance.
I'm a VB and a bias player. Have been since before people like RG were probably even born.
I'm not sure as to why some think I'm the international sales rep for biased wheel play or VB, as I am not. I have nothing to sell anyone, and I'd rather leave most blissfully ignorant, rather than educate someone that doesn't even grasp basic probability. Sometimes I get annoyed watching the new drivers attempting to drive with the parking brake still on, so I occasionally point out the stupid mistakes here and there.
Slot machines are a better opportunity for simpler people, and it's a great way for them to earn points for the buffet and three foot tall drinks.
I probably have more experience with bannings, and gaming investigations than anyone here, and anyone you will ever meet on any forum.
1. Yes casinos ban people for winning. It happens every day.
2. Most of you live in regions where you have no chance of ever becoming a consistent winner because you are required to have a club card just to get into the casino and to cash out any winnings. These days, these cards are monitored via software and they alert the casino to players that are playing too far outside of expectation. Meaning you will be plucked out, and banned if you're too many standard deviations away from the theoretical.
3. You can win big if you're lucky, and lose big. Many casinos love big action, and the want to feel that they have a real shot at winning all of your money. Especially if you look fat, lazy, and rich. However, if you're big win is too far outside of theoretical, then you're going to get heat. Again, you can win a million as long as they think you will lose a million. It's more about the theoretical than it is the dollar amount.
4. Casino pit bosses, and dealers actually know very little about the games they over see. Casino shift managers, and surveillance rely on risk consultants and former APs to educate them at conferences and consulting firms to learn of the latest risks. Many consultants are failed APs or ones that became to lazy to travel.
5. You can't win consistently playing online. Software similar to club card software will pluck you out, freeze your account, and attempt to keep your money. Online gaming is reserved for addicted gamblers and the simple minded. The only exception is for poker.
When did this become a slot machine promotion forum
Am I missing something? Anyone, anyone?
All this bullshit talk about banning winners of a couple of thousands.
The real regular folks that play at properties in Macau and Singapore will laugh reading this bs.
Or is this the case in UK and US casinos ?
Any regulars tells us what's up in the casinos there ?
Yes Macau and Singapore ban people as well. People are banned from bj, bac, roulette, and believe it or not, even slots.
Yes, I know the last one, slots, is probably blowing your mind right now.
Do you know why slots is one hell of a threat to them right now? There's a very real reason behind it. (And NO I'm not a sales rep for people wanting to play slots. )
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 01:42 PM 2018
Yes Macau and Singapore ban people as well. People are banned from bj, bac, roulette, and believe it or not, even slots.
Yes, I know the last one, slots, is probably blowing your mind right now.
Do you know why slots is one hell of a threat to them right now? There's a very real reason behind it. (And NO I'm not a sales rep for people wanting to play slots. )
Hi General,
you not referring to the Aristocrat saga with the Russians?
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 01:01 PM 2018
Many casinos love big action, and the want to feel that they have a real shot at winning all of your money. Especially if you look fat, lazy, and rich.
Yeah, these three characters (fat, lazy and rich) apply to the majority here, including yourself
-:)
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 01:42 PM 2018
Yes Macau and Singapore ban people as well. People are banned from bj, bac, roulette, and believe it or not, even slots.
Yes, I know the last one, slots, is probably blowing your mind right now.
Do you know why slots is one hell of a threat to them right now? There's a very real reason behind it. (And NO I'm not a sales rep for people wanting to play slots. )
Basically YES. The Russians, and several other teams like them currently represent the biggest risk there is, and the casinos don't have a fix for it.
Cht,
The gaming world is much bigger than the little bubble world on these forums. If you want to really know what's going on you need to listen to what the gaming attorneys are saying. You need to follow what the risk consultants are writing, etc...
In this world, AP gambler's are getting banned, civil/player's rights are often violated, the gaming world is often predatory, and isn't always fair.
QuoteYeah, these three characters (fat, lazy and rich) apply to the majority here, including yourself
No, I'm USDA certified lean!
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 16, 09:31 AM 20181- casino are forbidding users to use their phone, so fancy about a computer device !
If you are openly using your phone at the table, you'll be asked to step back. But with roulette computers the hardware isn't even visible. It's hidden.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 16, 09:31 AM 20182- how much is too much ?
Do u think 300 a day net profit is Headed to banning ?
There are many variables. $300/day is generally nothing. But any player that plays day after day will get attention, winning or losing. If you are winning too many days in a row and attention is on you, they may look into how you are winning. It's more a matter of time until they observe you more closely.
There are many parts to avoiding detection. But put simply if you're winning to much no matter how you play, they wont tolerate it. They'll deal with you one way or another. Casinos will more readily take action if you are making bets consistent with a professional system (like sector bets) because they know such methods work. But if you're making outside bets, but still winning lots, the casino staff will assume its just luck and probably not do anything for some time.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 09:48 AM 2018I am not the one that is wrong
Avoid detection? Paranoid?
It's far from paranoia. Casino staff are trained to detect professional players and consistent winners. They have courses on it, seminars and hire consultants. It's literally one of the biggest things casino surveillance does.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 09:48 AM 2018Listen, I will agree you can’t go in and make 20 grand a day
Have to be smart. Few thousand here and there and you won’t be “detectedâ€. If you are really smart you’d have some losing days.
Then we agree.
Quote from: cht on Apr 16, 10:44 AM 2018
Here are the facts.
Properties in Macau and Singapore, bet size of usd$1-2k per hand is normal in the public area. You get to see people win $20++k per session.
High rollers casino, usd$2-10k per hand. Normal to see members with $25k chip containers. Ofc there are the occasional higher bets.
About cellphones, not allowed near the tables.
If you use cheating electronic device you get banned. If you tresspass you go behind bars.
Surveillance is top notch. Just look up the ceiling for the eye in the sky that's everywhere except the restrooms.
I use to forget to take the cash from the casino atm, report and money returned to me within the day, that's how efficient. The same thing happened at the electronic table games, report to pitboss received a call one hour later to collect cash.
CHT, casino surveillance could be looking right at a professional player and have no idea. That includes my computer players.
It's harder for casino surveillance to find a well-organized professional team than for the team to win large sums without detection. Again there's a lot to avoiding detection, but its not difficult. In an average casino, taking $5000 in a session is easy. Taking $20,000 is borderline. Taking $100,000 needs ideal conditions and very careful planning. But then there are casinos an conditions where you can take say $50,000 without much difficulty. But doing it day after day at the same casino is not possible.
Often the best approach is large stakes but in ideal conditions, so the time of play is short, but edge high - so profitable play doesnt take long, and winnings look more like luck than professional play. It's not something I'd explain in detail here.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 11:11 AM 2018Guys please stop with the “being detected†paranoia. It’s hog wash and I don’t know why Steve harps on it
RG, make up your mind. So you think the casino will allow you to win without any limit?
All the casino surveillance courses, all the game protection seminars, all the training and security procedures are hogwash?
Quote from: cht on Apr 16, 11:16 AM 2018My casino buddies wins and lose millions among them. This win $x thousand a day you get ban is plain nonsense.
If you win a few thousand with typical system bets, the casino doesn't give a rats ass. The casino needs the occasional winner, to give people hope. I never said a typical casino would ban you after small winnings.
But the exception is some online casinos will readily ban players after small wins, or even just behavior consistent with advantage play - as happened to some of my players. Online casinos operate in a different way.
Quote from: cht on Apr 16, 11:16 AM 2018If you win big you will be invited to their VIP platinum club for whales.
If you win big with typical system play, you may get a free room. That's because they want you to continue playing and LOSE your winnings.
I've never heard of an advantage player being offered a free room after winning a fortune.
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 01:42 PM 2018Do you know why slots is one hell of a threat to them right now? There's a very real reason behind it. (And NO I'm not a sales rep for people wanting to play slots. )
You're probably talking about the Russians exploiting PRNGs
Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 07:06 PM 2018I've never heard of an advantage player being offered a free room after winning a fortune.
shouldnt we have an AP section where people can examine fluff in frets with like minded people, instead of mixing opposite football fans in the same stand?
Man City won the Premier League BTW watched by 88,000 United fans.....see? im never gonna listen to the Reds.
Quote from: Turner on Apr 16, 07:16 PM 2018
shouldnt we have an AP section where people can examine fluff in frets with like minded people, instead of mixing opposite football fans in the same stand?
No. By the way, Ghost created this thread, not us.
You don't want to chop up these forums too much as it's distracting. Really the only thing people look at is the list of recent topics. Nobody really goes to the sections to find the topics. If they do it's because the topic was recent or they're using the search function to find an old post.
Subsections are more of a convenience for admin and moderation than it actually is for the users/posters. Besides, most of the posters these days are younger people that use cellphones rather than desktop or lap tops. If you create subsections they're never going to go there if they have to open additional windows or wait for additional sections to load. Ideally, less is more when it comes to message boards, at least that has been my experience running them.
Yea Steve. I started the thread
To stop the predatory tactics of people like the general
He reached out to me and countless others via PM to monitor local wheels. Searching for a bias
There simply isn’t enough biased wheels in this day and age.
These wheels are monitored and are electronic
You need a nice size bias for it to be worth your while.
Nowadays hard to come by.
The generals chips are at the same edge mine are.
The wheels are manufactured differently now. Any bias is caught.
He’s full of shit. Like mr j has winning and losing days like all of us
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:01 PM 2018
Yea Steve. I started the thread
To stop the predatory tactics of people like the general
He reached out to me and countless others via PM to monitor local wheels. Searching for a bias
There simply isn’t enough biased wheels in this day and age.
These wheels are monitored and are electronic
You need a nice size bias for it to be worth your while.
Nowadays hard to come by.
The generals chips are at the same edge mine are.
The wheels are manufactured differently now. Any bias is caught.
He’s full of shit. Like mr j has winning and losing days like all of us
No surprise then of how he posts on forums.
As I always post about the
ulterior motive.
cht, he isnt the only leech to do it
bias wheels are few and far between, need feelers out there
he loses so he bashes people on forums
GF was not good enough as he only got to bash turbo....so now hes back here...like....a vampire
hes full of SHIT
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QuoteBecause Roulette wheels did have a bias the design has slowly evolved into the low profile, Corian ball track, single block of aluminium, moveable separator ring products presently available from the major manufacturers
Software has also been available now for around 20 years that enables operators to identify bias
Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 07:12 PM 2018shouldnt we have an AP section
There is a professional play section. But it's common for discussions about any topic to spill into other areas. It happens with any topic. I dont believe in strictly enforcing keeping things "on-topic" because conversations have a natural flow.
Quote from: Turner on Apr 16, 07:16 PM 2018Man City won the Premier League BTW watched by 88,000 United fans
Soccer sucks balls. Just my opinion.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:01 PM 2018To stop the predatory tactics of people like the general
That wont stop anything. It is just inflammatory. Caleb knows trolling wont be tolerated. Again we all know how he can be sometimes. But you are not considering often he is attacked because of his unpopular explanations. His response is by antagonizing people who attack him. And from my own experience with him his behavior can sometimes be childish. But you pretty much everyone here plays up once in a while, including me. That's life. Look past it and look at shared knowledge before popularity or keeping peace. Caleb knows the limits and knows what happens if it goes over the line. We dont need to make a big hoo-hah about it all.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:01 PM 2018There simply isn’t enough biased wheels in this day and age.
From personal experience with data I see, there actually is. I should know. I see a lot of data. But still I advise my own players not to bother with bias unless you find a perfect wheel, because there are much better ways of beating roulette in my experience.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:01 PM 2018These wheels are monitored and are electronic
You need a nice size bias for it to be worth your while.
Yes but the monitors dont check sounds, or make visual observations. And they need a lot of data. An observant player can detect and exploit bias well before software has thousands of spins to analyze. Even when a rotor is changed on a wheel, it might create a bias the casino wont know about for weeks. But a bias player could exploit it in hours.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:01 PM 2018The wheels are manufactured differently now. Any bias is caught.
They are better-made, but they still wear down quite easily. If you've seen the state of many real casino wheels, you'd wonder how on earth the casino isnt broke. Some wheels are in terrible condition. And really its not that uncommon.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:01 PM 2018He’s full of shit. Like mr j has winning and losing days like all of us
Maybe he is. But like I said before, I agree with the majority of what he says. I dont know if he plays like he says. How can anyone but him know that? I'm judging him only on his knowledge. I know what the facts are from my own experience. I've been working with roulette nearly every day for 20 years. Its no exaggeration. Nobody knows everything, and I'll always keep an open mind. And I make up my mind based on test results, not what I think should be reality.
the tactics they ("AP" players) employ to detect wheel bias is simplistic to say the least
their "bias" can simply be normal wheel variance
Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 08:23 PM 2018
His response is by antagonizing people who attack him.
false.
he has been making threads for months to antagonize turbogenius (who is a forum saint) and guys like notto/winkel for no reason and in response to nothing...i know you have read GF, so unless you are in denial...
maybe you havent read whats been going on :yawn:
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:25 PM 2018their "bias" can simply be normal wheel variance
True. When you do bias analysis, there's always the chance it's variance. That's the same when you test a system and profit. You can still profit with a losing system. I did for about a year.
Simply the more data you have, the more assured you are. Just like any CALCULATED INVESTMENT.
But modern bias analysis involves visual and sound observation. Probably the most common bias is caused by the colored plastic coming loose from the glue. It makes a popping sound instead of a ding sound when the ball hits such pockets. It will eventually happen on any wheel with colored pockets. But casinos will detect that bias relatively easily.
A bias needs to be detected and exploited before the casino detects it. So any new, moved or serviced wheel presents a new opportunity. For example, maybe the shaft got bent when they put the wheel back together, making the rotor wobble a bit. Casino software wont detect that for a a while, but a modern bias player may.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:26 PM 2018he has been making threads for months to antagonize turbogenius (who is a forum saint) and guys like notto/winkel for no reason and in response to nothing...i know you have read GF, so unless you are in denial...
Turbo has been misleading people. Caleb has every right to challenge Turbo. But people cant so easily dismiss what he says by saying "you're just selling something"...
On that note, Turbo is a nice guy. I have nothing against him besides misleading people, partly unintentionally. But he still ought to know better. I don't take any pleasure in refuting his claims.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:26 PM 2018
false.
he has been making threads for months to antagonize turbogenius (who is a forum saint) and guys like notto/winkel for no reason and in response to nothing...i know you have read GF, so unless you are in denial...
maybe you havent read whats been going on :yawn:
Lets face it, steve allows him to troll system threads with his standard template.
Turner recognise it, threatens action, fall short of execution. Beholden to the owner.
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20180.msg196356#msg196356
Quote from: cht on Apr 16, 08:35 PM 2018
Lets face it, steve allows him to troll system threads with his standard template.
Turner recognise it, threatens action, fall short of execution. Beholden to the owner.
agreed
cant blame turner...turner does a great job being an unbiased moderator steve is lucky to have him....
the general disrupts threads then calls out turner...meanwhile its all he does...victim complex, like mr j
not easy playing forum victim and looking for biased wheels that do not exist
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/mOtjMDSDyZQ3u/giphy.gif)
the idea that you can observe a few thousand spins and claim a bias is utterly asinine
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/giphy.gif)
these are the same people that cry about variance day in and day out
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/Za3FFB6aXVAnS/giphy.gif)
the "BIAS" after 7 thousand spins can be normal fluctuations, OR JUST PLAIN CHANCE...
unless he clocks a million spins?
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/26FPr9YI27Rayx7yg/giphy.gif)
remember, a statistically relevant number of spins is necessary....not a small sample size :thumbsup:
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/U3I5ZJPFJpXRm/giphy.gif)
(link:s://:.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif)
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 07:39 PM 2018No. By the way, Ghost created this thread, not us.
You don't want to chop up these forums too much as it's distracting. Really the only thing people look at is the list of recent topics. Nobody really goes to the sections to find the topics. If they do it's because the topic was recent or they're using the search function to find an old post.
Subsections are more of a convenience for admin and moderation than it actually is for the users/posters. Besides, most of the posters these days are younger people that use cellphones rather than desktop or lap tops. If you create subsections they're never going to go there if they have to open additional windows or wait for additional sections to load. Ideally, less is more when it comes to message boards, at least that has been my experience running them.
More important, you dont answer questions directed at other people.
Here is a clue if you are confused
If I quote you...then I am inviting you to answer.
It may start, Caleb...
If it does, then its you I want to reply.
I am not in the slightest bit interested in your view on my question to Steve..
That would not have had Steves quote in it if I was.
Hope that helps
Sorry Turner,
I thought it was a public message board, and I was just offering my ten cents.
All is well. ;)
Quote from: Turner on Apr 16, 08:51 PM 2018
More important, you dont answer questions directed at other people.
Here is a clue if you are confused
If I quote you...then I am inviting you to answer.
It may start, Caleb...
If it does, then its you I want to reply.
I am not in the slightest bit interested in your view on my question to Steve..
That would not have had Steves quote in it if I was.
Hope that helps
it is clear to see he is trying to "school" you to look like a good school boy to steve....we see it, no worries......
imagine HIM explaining how to act on a forum
how fooking pathetic to read what he wrote to you
by the way, i love how he says "us"
Quote from: cht on Apr 16, 08:35 PM 2018
Turner recognise it, threatens action, fall short of execution. Beholden to the owner.
CHT
I get your concern, but at the end of the day, I am trying to help Steve out by being a Mod.
He has the final word. I understand that.
He backs me up many times and I am happy with the situation
My view is just that. My view. It may not be the forum owners view.
know thy enemy
Quote from: Turner on Apr 16, 08:56 PM 2018
CHT
I get your concern, but at the end of the day, I am trying to help Steve out by being a Mod.
He has the final word. I understand that.
He backs me up many times and I am happy with the situation
My view is just that. My view. It may not be the forum owners view.
Thanks for the clarification.
No problem. You are the good guy.
We can see you are not part of...
So long as you are comfortable and happy.
Same with Bayes. I was wrong about him.
Ok, back on subject:
Ghost,
Wheel bias is a very complex subject and in case you didn't notice, it's often guarded by disinformation, and diversion.
Yes there are some still some operating just as there are still VB players. I just happen to do both, it's not big secret. But you'll be hard pressed to find in depth conversations on the closely guarded secrets of how to find the wheels, and which defects in particular it is that people are looking for. It's not because of just me, but others as well. It's a fabulous conspiracy I know, but that's just the way it is with some advantage players.
Wheel bias is not easy. It's not something that inexperienced players should expect to instantly be able to do. Most of the people doing it these days are insiders. People with in depth experience working on the wheels, reviewing data downloads/reports, refurbishers, or wheel owners. It's not shocker that many bias players are also vb players because most vb players own the equipment and get to know the defects along the way. (Besides it doesn't look good to be betting after the ball is spun on every spin so many mix both)
If you're looking to find wheel bias, I suppose the easiest way for a novice to get started would be to acquire an intro book written by Barnhart called, "Beating The Wheel," and along the way learn about statistics and relevant testing methods such as chi square and standard deviation testing. Also get a roulette ball. However...don't waste your time by going out and buying a wheel because you're not going to know what to do with it and you're just going to end up with a really expensive piece of furniture/desk weight.
You were spot on when you said that winning on a biased wheel wasn't easy, because it's not. I could tell most people on the forum exactly on which numbers to bet, but they'd still lose. There's more to playing one than just knowing that one is biased. Knowledge of probability of ruin, variance, and playing conditions needed are a big part of it. Unfortunately this is the kind of stuff that you just don't learn in school or on a systems forum.
Best of luck,
The General.
By the way, the guy shaking his head is Mike from "Breaking Bad" and "Better Call Saul." Both are fabulous TV series worth watching. A new season of Better Call Saul starts later this year!
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 08:54 PM 2018I thought it was a public message board, and I was just offering my ten cents
rather like when you told me to keep politics out and stop messing up posts
sorry, I thought it was a public message board
ive read about it
you see, i dont speak without reading
i read a university study talking about wheels that are not level leading to a bias
resorts world has dozens of airball wheels..surely all are not level...this begs the question: is airball real?
Quoteive read about it
you see, i dont speak without reading
i read a university study talking about wheels that are not level leading to a bias
Ermm...A level wheel doesn't lead to number bias or sector bias. However some people refer to a dominant ball drop as being a type of bias. Perhaps that's what you're referring to???
To what university study are you referring?
Quote from: The General on Apr 16, 09:16 PM 2018By the way, the guy shaking his head is Mike from "Breaking Bad" and "Better Call Saul." Both are fabulous TV series worth watching. A new season of Better Call Saul starts later this year!
Never started Breaking bad. I know I should have.
Walking Dead kinda took president. 8 series in 4 month
Fkin awesome show.
an unlevel wheel would most certainly lead to a sector bias
either the airball machines have level sensors or they are rigged
Quote from: Turner on Apr 16, 09:24 PM 2018
Never started Breaking bad. I know I should have.
Walking Dead kinda took president. 8 series in 4 month
Fkin awesome show.
does the UK even have tv series? or is everything american? lol
Breaking bad is FABULOUS. It takes a while to get into it. It's best to watch it several episodes at a time.
ill be in vegas in june.....ill let you know if i see BIAS
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 09:24 PM 2018
an unlevel wheel would most certainly lead to a sector bias
Ghost,
Why on earth do you believe that an off level wheel would lead to a sector bias??? :o
is that a real question...if the wheel is not on level ground, even by a millimeter over many many spins one sector would not be favored as much
stanford university:
As we will see, if the wheel is not perfectly level, such a bias appears. Even with minor tilt, the wheel can create a forbidden zone where the ball is very unlikely to land.
link:://large.stanford.edu/courses/2007/ph210/hall1/
(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/535b7f2016bf30e0c5b88f4e626add08/tenor.gif)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 09:35 PM 2018
stanford university:
As we will see, if the wheel is not perfectly level, such a bias appears. Even with minor tilt, the wheel can create a forbidden zone where the ball is very unlikely to land.
link:://large.stanford.edu/courses/2007/ph210/hall1/
Ghost,
I can see why you're confused.
The type of bias that they're referring to relates to the bowl, not the spinning rotor. Meaning it doesn't create a number sector bias, but rather a bias drop zone.
They are referring to a section of the bowl, not numbers on the wheel. Understand?
For what it's worth, most wheels are off level just a bit, but they don't create number sector biases, just drop zones. Also drop zones don't form from just off level wheels. Many are manufactured unintentionally into the wheel via turning, finishing, curing, or normal expansion and contraction of the bowl, and then are locked into place by self leveling mechanisms available on some wheel designs. In the world of VB some of these self leveling wheels are the players delight and the greatest invention since Swiss Cheese.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 08:50 PM 2018the idea that you can observe a few thousand spins and claim a bias is utterly asinine
Actually its not. You can actually do it in far less. It's not that complicated. RG you are criticizing Caleb for being a naysayer, but are doing the same thing. Even worse, you aren't actually supporting your argument, and you have no experience in this field. It seems more like you are making arguments to spite him - not to contribute.
At the moment, you are trolling Caleb. You dont need to participate in discussions with him. You can ignore him. You can post only in the "system players only" area. You do not need to go on and on about how evil Caleb is.
If he trolls people, the solution is a click away. So relax. How he behaves to people at GF or elsewhere is not my concern. I only care about behavior of members at my own forum.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 16, 10:24 PM 2018
Actually its not. You can actually do it in far less. It's not that complicated. RG you are criticizing Caleb for being a naysayer, but are doing the same thing. Even worse, you aren't actually supporting your argument, and you have no experience in this field. It seems more like you are making arguments to spite him - not to contribute.
At the moment, you are trolling Caleb. You dont need to participate in discussions with him. You can ignore him. You can post only in the "system players only" area. You do not need to go on and on about how evil Caleb is.
If he trolls people, the solution is a click away. So relax. How he behaves to people at GF or elsewhere is not my concern. I only care about behavior of members at my own forum.
You can’t be serious. 99% of his threads are in an effort to troll or spite someone
What you see here is a taste of his own medicine. You and him will survive.
And I am backing up my claims
They must be inconvenient truths
Ghost,
Are you really wanting to learn more about the subject?
Not really
#1 - downstate NY Is only airball wheels. I question their legitimacy
#2 - even in the rare circumstance you found a biased wheel, you still need a large capital
The fight isn’t worth it
I'm in often in your local casino.
Which?
Resorts is cool. Not far from Long Island. They swap the wheels every now and then
Jakes 58 is newer and Long Island first casino. Too new for bias
Cool
That’s a new one
Exploiting a bias in airball wheels
That’s all we have here
:xd:
Sure RG you can challenge his claims. Just take a step back and understand we have limits to behavior here, which apply to everyone. He is behaving himself and so should you.
If that changes, anyone can report any post, and all mods including myself can decide if anything is over the line.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 10:40 PM 2018#2 - even in the rare circumstance you found a biased wheel, you still need a large capital. The fight isn’t worth it
Remember what happens with a -2.7% edge. And remember card counters can make millions from a 2% edge.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 10:40 PM 2018
#2 - even in the rare circumstance you found a biased wheel, you still need a large capital
The fight isn’t worth it
The variance is 400+ units depending on the edge.---------DSAA
Actually the variance can much worse than that if your edge is small. That's just the way it is for any method, system, strategy. The larger the edge, the smaller the draw downs. The smaller the edge, the larger the draw downs.
If you don't have an edge, then the draw downs are essentially bottomless because the house edge combines with variance. I know that seems horrific, but that's just how the math works out. That's why it's important to bet a percentage of your bankroll rather than using an up as you lose progression. Such a progression theoretically enables you to subdivide your bets endlessly if needed (or at least down to limit) and shoot for the chandeliers the longer you play.
Quote from: The General on Apr 17, 12:39 AM 2018
Actually the variance can much worse than that if your edge is small. But that's the way it is for any method. The larger the edge, the smaller the draw downs. The smaller the edge, the larger the draw downs. And if you don't have an edge, then the draw downs are essentially bottomless because the house edge combines with variance. I know that seems horrific, but that's just how the math works out.
I agree. I made reference to that 400+ variance so that readers get a better understanding of the dimensions of AP. Not many people properly understand and appreciate dd.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 17, 12:21 AM 2018
Remember what happens with a -2.7% edge. And remember card counters can make millions from a 2% edge.
Out of curiosity, if your rc gives a 90+% edge why then your ex-customer bago has problems with your product ?
Not trying to stir shit but something is not right ? :question:
It's all explained at link:s://:.genuinewinnerroulettesystem.com/bago-tony-duhamel/
Basically he wasn't following instructions, then refused my support claiming he didn't speak english well enough for a call, said he was right anyway and that was the end of it. Bago is an absolute freak with serious problems. Everyone in my player forum hated him. He fought with everyone who attempted to correct his misunderstandings.
To be more specific with his mistakes, he probably set the polynomial order to an incorrect value which made predictions unstable. He refused to let me help him so I couldn't find out exactly. Before he requested a refund, he said he wasn't going to use it in casinos because he was concerned about legalities anyway. I think partly he really had no idea what he was doing, and partly he just wanted to justify a refund because of his legal concerns.
Ultimately the computers are just a tool, not magic. If the user is a moron, the computer wont help them.
So was Tony the problem, or does my computer really give random predictions like he says? Considering my public demos, the public challenge with him, and the free trial, you'd have to lack a brain if you can't figure out the answer.
Lets read bago's response if he does on gf.
Bago, if you are reading this, give us the specifics to why you failed to make money with the rc tool that gives such a high edge.
Do you really expect him to give you an accurate answer?
Check everything on my sites. Even check the result of my public challenge with him. Do you really believe him in saying the predictions were random when he repeated the same spin on dvd?
All he gives is muddled bullshit and excuses.
You will never, never get "Sorry, I was wrong. I made a mistake." from him.
And if after checking all the public demo videos, public test results with Tony live, you still dont get it.... then try the free computer I provide. If you still think the predictions are random, god help you.
Understand in the end I cornered Tony. He had nowhere left to go. And his last words were claiming he still had another computer which was much better and mine was a scam. I knew he was lying because I have that computer, so I asked him to do another live challenge to prove he was full of shit. The challenge would allow both devices to use the same click input, then we'd compare prediction accuracy. He refused. See below:
The Truth: After a public challenge, Tony’s false claims were clearly debunked and the results are all at link:://:.genuinewinnerroulettesystem.com/results-of-my-challenge-to-bago/. Tony then released an edited recording and lied about the results, so I released the unedited version which embarrassed him further. Then he had nowhere left to go, so first he suggested another challenge (which my player successfully completed for me). Secondly, he tried to dismiss the test results by saying he has another computer that performed much better anyway. I have the computer he mentioned (Forester’s FFA) and knew his claim was false, so I asked him to witness a live webcam test of both my computer and this other computer connected to the same clocking cable and predicting the same spins. Then we could compare results. He REFUSED.
Bago’s version (his exact words): “Steve is now furious about losing the challenge, he showed his rubbish product in front of everybody, so he asked me to repeat the demonstration once again trying to show this time an effective product. But it is too late, my point has been proven, he is a scammerâ€
You have to understand, when someone like Tony is cornered and everyone can see his lies and mistakes, he has nowhere left to go. But that doesn't stop him from spewing more bullshit. Have you ever tried to have a logical discussion with someone who isn't actually interested in the truth? It gets nowhere.
For him, being right and not looking stupid was far, far more important than accuracy and honesty.
And for a long time, his trail of bullshit and lies went around in circles. Even when he was flattened in public demos, he still kept going because he looked like an idiot. He did that to himself. I only defended myself and explained the truth, with public demos among other things.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 16, 09:24 PM 2018does the UK even have tv series? or is everything american? lol
I download torrents. They arnt on UK TV
Tought I was the only one who got it when Turbo said he made millions by selling air freshners at the carwash. :-)
Quote from: Turner on Apr 17, 02:51 AM 2018
I download torrents. They arnt on UK TV
Torrent ? Isn't it blocked in UK?
Tried once to watch the american version of The Office. Has nothing to do with the original.
I've heard there was an american version of Coupling. Didn't watch because of that.
Sorry for the OT
Just found this on a website. Interesting
From early in the 1800’s, some roulette players looked for a specific type of wheel; one that wasn’t working perfectly, a wheel that was off; a wheel where certain numbers were coming up with a frequency that defied randomness. These numbers were considered “biased†as was the wheel. So for many roulette players the biased-wheel hunt became almost an obsession.
My wife and I played one biased wheel in the early 1990’s at the Rio casino in Las Vegas. It was an unbelievable thrill. The same three adjacent numbers kept hitting with unusual regularity throughout the day â€" from early morning to early evening before the casino shut the wheel down. Strangely enough, although we were winning consistently, the other players just played as they always played totally unaware of what kind of wheel they were playing.
How about now? Are there biased wheels around the casino world? Doubtful and you certainly won’t find them at major casinos. Still if you love to play roulette and you see some numbers coming up a lot, you have nothing more to lose if you bet them. You might be playing a random game but you would be doing that anyway.
Ah tuner
Don't believe this bullshit, read the story of the Garcia family in Spain and how they made millions from biased wheels
One fact is that casino nowadays are more careful and they have software to detect biases, in other words players are being screwed again and again
RB, what is your experience? I mean personal experience.
Or is it speculation, and what you think?
Quote from: Steve on Apr 19, 03:37 AM 2018
RB, what is your experience? I mean personal experience.
Or is it speculation, and what you think?
Steve
I am not in a position to defend Tuner in what he has published, biased wheel existed in the past and enabled some smart guys to become millionaires, these stories took place around the 1990 years where casino lacked monitoring softwares to keep track of the spins, the problem actually is not to find a biased wheel, the problem is rather how long can a biased wheel stay in production ?
Casinos today using advanced software to detect anomalies and they will get informed in a matter of seconds.
My personal experience is to never invest time in searching biased wheels because it's not worth.
You'd agree or disagree with me but one fact remains that casino milk the fools and the smart milk the casino, so in other words if you win $100 from a table where luck7red has just lost $100 because he bet 7 red, then. You have earned that money from his pocket and he can sue you if he wants
:)
Wheel bias is becoming more and more BS everyday
That’s why snowman ( and others ) message forum members to track wheels for them
Seeing a “bias†in a few thousand spins could just be a coincidence or variance
Perhaps these bias players have been winning on hot numbers all along :thumbsup:
Bias wheel contribute some, visual ballistic contribute some.
For bias wheel the variance is large and the player has to play a large spin population for the edge to kick in the same like the casinos HE.
VB plays the current spins with edge for every spin. The edge can be large in ideal condition.
VB comes with knowledge and skill.
For skilled VB players, they can obtain edge even with difficult wheels. The wheels are not necessary to be bias but better if it's consistent.
If you can play with edge with ALL these online wheels then you are a good skilled VB player.
For b&m casino, there is the practical aspect depending on nmb , how to place your bets and how to camouflage your bets.
Between bias wheel and VB, better to learn VB for beginners.
When you have solid VB knowledge and skill then you know bias wheel is difficult, comparatively not worth the effort.
Quote from: cht on Apr 19, 07:16 AM 2018
Bias wheel contribute some, visual ballistic contribute some.
For bias wheel the variance is large and the player has to play a large spin population the same like the casinos HE.
VB plays the current spins with edge for every spin. The edge can be large in ideal condition.
VB comes with knowledge and skill.
For skilled VB players, they can obtain edge even with difficult wheels. The wheels are not necessary to be bias but better if it's consistent.
If you can play with edge with ALL these online wheels then you are a good skilled VB player.
For b&m casino, there is the practical aspect depending on nmb and how to camouflage your bets.
Between bias wheel and VB, better to learn VB.
When you have solid VB knowledge and skill then you know bias wheel is difficult, comparatively not worth the effort.
Cht
As usual your reply rocks !
Which casino is that you showed in the picture ?
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 07:20 AM 2018
Cht
As usual your reply rocks !
Which casino is that you showed in the picture ?
The list is Dublinbet with a lot of live dealer wheels.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 19, 07:16 AM 2018
Wheel bias is becoming more and more BS everyday
That’s why snowman ( and others ) message forum members to track wheels for them
Seeing a “bias†in a few thousand spins could just be a coincidence or variance
Perhaps these bias players have been winning on hot numbers all along :thumbsup:
RG
Stop believing in your hot numbers fallacy, it's all an illusion which has been adverstised too much on Steve's forum by turbo and his fans for free and for the sake of devastating collapse of the players
Wake up!
Btw, why you didn't take my advice seriously and changed your avatar into a real lion instead of this small rat with big balls
:)
Everyone has an opinion. Very few have personal experience.
Modern bias analysis software used by casinos is very inadequate. But considering time and effort, bias analysis a waste of time compared to other methods. A broad network of scouts may make it more viable.
Still its definitely viable. I access a lot of data and see likely bias often. But mostly we ignore it and pursue other approaches.
About VB, there's a lot of complicated stuff posted online most of which are useless and misleading.
They use a lot of technical jargons that sound impressive but their effectiveness is next to useless - this is the truth.
When you understand the real "physics" of the wheel and ball you know that a lot of the stuff is useless, unnecessary and inaccurate.
Although many of those posted online looks logical, scientific and impressive.
So the novice use their logical mind to think they must be true.
If those rubbish stuff work, there will be a lot of successful VB players but that's not the case.
Just google to find them.
When you truly mastered VB you realise that roulette is not a random game. The result is dependent on the key physical attributes of each individual spin. That's the game of roulette that's not random.
True VB masters are able to demonstrate their skill for real in front of your eyes in a b&m casino. They are very few and you won't know who they are.
Its very hard to make a truly unpredictable wheel. But realistically vb will onky beat the easier wheels. Its theoretically possible to beat most wheels with vb, but you need to be a vb god to adjust for simple rotor speed variations, whereas computers do it effortlessly. To me it makes no sense to use vb over a computer where its legal
Where on earth still computers legal ?
Didn't you hear drsudoku when he said that all casino in the U.S are not tolerating even a small telephone held in the hands of players near their wheels !
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 08:13 AM 2018
Where on earth still computers legal ?
Didn't you hear drsudoku when he said that all casino in the U.S are not tolerating even a small telephone held by players near their wheels !
Computer is surely not allowed in Macau and S'pore casinos.
Phones not allowed at the roulette tables.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 03:30 AM 2018Don't believe this bullshit
well I will be guided by Frank Scoblete (who wrote it) rather than you
He would probably spell my name properly too
I once saw a dealer having some difficulty sliding the losing chips down the hole because of some parts were standing off or something so she must have lost her patience and put all of her weight on the table to fix it. The wheel tilted and looked like a boat on a seastorm. It must have suffered some damage. But the the pitboss and the floor boss, alarmed by the rumbles, only raised eyebrows and didn´t seem to care one bit.
Quote from: Turner on Apr 19, 09:17 AM 2018
well I will be guided by Frank Scoblete (who wrote it) rather than you
He would probably spell my name properly too
Tuner
Don't be angry, you know that I like you.
I call you "Tuner" because you actually are a tuner of all the mess the guys sometimes write here
:)
Roulettebeater seems to be constantly patronizing people.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 06:26 AM 2018
Steve
I am not in a position to defend Tuner in what he has published, biased wheel existed in the past and enabled some smart guys to become millionaires, these stories took place around the 1990 years where casino lacked monitoring softwares to keep track of the spins, the problem actually is not to find a biased wheel, the problem is rather how long can a biased wheel stay in production ?
Casinos today using advanced software to detect anomalies and they will get informed in a matter of seconds.
My personal experience is to never invest time in searching biased wheels because it's not worth.
You'd agree or disagree with me but one fact remains that casino milk the fools and the smart milk the casino, so in other words if you win $100 from a table where luck7red has just lost $100 because he bet 7 red, then. You have earned that money from his pocket and he can sue you if he wants
All is well. Some people lose less and are better suited playing slots. ::)
The flavor of the week is “play slotsâ€
That should be repeated 20 more times
Funny. Last I checked this is a roulette strategy forum
General
showing how to win with Bias wheel
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_693311.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/swzMK)
Flogging a dead horse General, i was going to put mate, no way are you going to be a mate noooooooooooo
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_791493.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s05LB)
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 19, 09:57 AM 2018
General
showing how to win with Bias wheel
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_693311.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/swzMK)
Flogging a dead horse General, i was going to put mate, no way are you going to be a mate noooooooooooo
Who's being hit here the house or the player ?
The men in the photo look like the dealers in a land based casino
:xd:
(link:s://i.imgur.com/mCjqvLR.gif)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 19, 10:14 AM 2018
(link:s://i.imgur.com/mCjqvLR.gif)
Dealer's steering at its best
:)
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 08:13 AM 2018
Where on earth still computers legal ?
Didn't you hear drsudoku when he said that all casino in the U.S are not tolerating even a small telephone held in the hands of players near their wheels !
Lets forget Steve for a moment and look at the General.
I'm 58 soon to be 59, when i was younger, back in the 60's good old dad told me about a gentleman who won at roulette, he won because he had an engineering profession, from which he realised that wheels give a bias.
So he went to a casino, (can't remember where, probably Monte Carlo) but where doesn't matter, what matters is he won over a million.
Now the casino honoured the winning, but wanted to know how he was winning. Here we have to assume he told them,(hope at a cost to them) that he knew wheels have a bias to them.
If Dad told me way back, then its obvious bias wheels are watched and corrected back in the day a simple move around would fuck up the generals of the day.
So old (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_322610.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s0tDD)is living in the past.
Now to techno Steve
Like the doctor says they dont let you have techno at the table, know it as i had clipboard and not opened and as floor manager walked by stopped in his tracks and ask what you got there, a clipboard mate, ok, walked off, if been a laptop what would have been said
(link:s://photos.prnewswire.com/prnvar/20150909/264868)
Some old methods are much better than others though. ;)
like it general
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_722868.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s06ms)
lovely
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_784813.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s09v7)
I'm sure its got a bias
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_787802.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s0S9Q)
Last chance, i can't look
No more pics he's bust
QuoteDealer's steering at its best
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/11fucLQCTOdvBS/giphy.gif)
Dealer's steering? What's dealer's steering?
Quote from: The General on Apr 19, 01:19 PM 2018
(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/11fucLQCTOdvBS/giphy.gif)
Dealer's steering? What's dealer's steering?
...whats the cat actually dealing....is what I'd like to know
link:://:.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/toonces-the-cat/3505887?snl=1
Yes for sanctions against the general, that what the morons here are calling for
:)
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 01:42 PM 2018
Yes for sanctions against the general, that what the morons here are calling for
:)
Um...Roulettebeater,
I'm going out on a limb here, and just guessing that maybe English isn't your native language?
Quote from: The General on Apr 19, 01:49 PM 2018
Um...Roulettebeater,
I'm going out on a limb here, and just guessing that maybe English isn't your native language?
No, it's not.
And it shouldn't be my native language as I am not a big fan of it.
General, you crossed the red line with your continuous criticis against the forum's members, I support the voices that calling for imposing sanctions against you.
you traitor
:)
People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. ;)
Chill. All is well. :)
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 19, 11:21 AM 2018If Dad told me way back, then its obvious bias wheels are watched and corrected back in the day a simple move around would f*** up the generals of the day.
That won't stop the serious bias watchers. A wheel can always be identified by small marks or scratches.
dream on then
Quote from: CoderJoe on Apr 19, 02:39 PM 2018
That won't stop the serious bias watchers. A wheel can always be identified by small marks or scratches.
No that's not possible. If that were the case then people would be able to determine which cars were theirs in a crowded parking lot. And we know that nobody can find their car once they've parked it! ;) (CoderJoe, you're right. Some people are little sharper and more observant than others.)
General
I am really fed up with you.
You behave like a 16 years old boy!
Why do you do this to yourself? There are certain things that no one should discuss in public. Money. I don't care if you have it or you don't, you should never talk about the others that bad, you are not better... a dealer steering you don't know, fancy that !
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 19, 09:35 AM 2018
Roulettebeater seems to be constantly patronizing people.
Wrong!
I am actually a very modest guy
QuoteI don't care if you have it or you don't, you should never talk about the others that bad, you are not better... a dealer steering you don't know, fancy that !
Again, what is "dealer steering?"
Quote from: The General on Apr 19, 02:55 PM 2018
Again, what is "dealer steering?"
Anyone could please explain dealer steering to the general, I have no mood to discuss anything with him ?
Thx
RouletteBeater,
It's probably a term that's more familiar to your native language rather than English. If you can, please try to explain it in a few words.
Quote from: The General on Apr 19, 03:00 PM 2018
RouletteBeater,
It's probably a term that's more familiar to your native language rather than English. If you can, please try to explain it in a few words.
I start to doubt that you are native English speaker !
Dealer steering is well known term, almost all professional players should know it
If you don't believe me, ask Steve, tuner or any professional player here
General.,
here something for you
link:://:.blackjackforumonline.com/content/debate-on-roulette-sector-shooting.htm
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 03:18 PM 2018
General.,
here something for you
link:://:.blackjackforumonline.com/content/debate-on-roulette-sector-shooting.htm
Roulettebeater,
What are you thoughts on the subject?
General,
Roulette systems are like books, there are new ones you want to read and old ones you want to reread and make money with.
Winning is a choice, not a result. Nothing will make you win until you choose to be winner.
Nougat is a tricky business to chew and maybe Nutella would have been easier gulping down; but Roulette is Nutty Nougat!
:)
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 04:11 PM 2018Nougat is a tricky business to chew and maybe Nutella would have been easier gulping down; but Roulette is Nutty Nougat!
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_668244.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s0Vmd)
Quote from: Turner on Apr 19, 04:29 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/19/temp_634707.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s0XKU)
QuoteRoulettebeater-Winning is a choice, not a result. Nothing will make you win until you choose to be winner.
Roulettebeater,
How do you figure? Does that work on a double zero wheel? How about a triple zero wheel? Can you
choose to be a winner on a triple zero wheel and actually be one in the long run? ::)
Does such power and choice making apply to growing old too?
Can you choose to never grow old and die? ::)
You brought up what you called "dealer steering," so what's your thoughts on it? Do you believe it's myth, real?
Quote from: The General on Apr 19, 05:27 PM 2018
Roulettebeater,
How do you figure? Does that work on a double zero wheel? How about a triple zero wheel? Can you choose to be a winner on a triple zero wheel and actually be one in the long run? ::)
Does such power and choice making apply to growing old too? Can you choose to never grow old and die? ::)
You brought up what you called "dealer steering," so what's your thoughts on it? Do you believe it's myth, real?
Ok, you capsuled multiple questions in one reply, let's take them one by one.
First of all, from a pure mathematical point of view the zero is a guarantee/positive edge for the casino against the average player, you can see it like that : "payout is not fair, a sort of cheating!"
But my style of play deactivates this mathematical model, because i am advantage player, in other words i target the wheel not the layout, for me it makes no difference if the wheel has one, two or even three zero!
Dealer steering is not myth, it exists!
you want the evidence? easy, go and find a table with a lazy dealer and check the result.
QuoteBut my style of play deactivates this mathematical model, because i am advantage player, in other words i target the wheel not the layout, for me it makes no difference if the wheel has one, two or even three zero!
Interesting. What type of AP player are you? Can you elaborate?
QuoteDealer steering is not myth, it exists!
you want the evidence? easy, go and find a table with a lazy dealer and check the result.
Actually I'm very familiar with it, as I own wheels of my own.
Just curious, you do know that it's the wheel conditions that make it possible, and that it doesn't require any super hero dealer skills, right?
Quote from: The General on Apr 19, 06:10 PM 2018
Actually I'm very familiar with it, as I own wheels of my own.
I think you are not serious enough!
you wasting my time !
you've said previously that you don't know what is "dealer steering" and now you say that you are very familar with it!
Go away!
You have to be banned! and i am sure "tuner" will do, he just put you on his watchlist
:twisted:
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 06:20 PM 2018
I think you are not serious enough!
you wasting my time !
you've said previously that you don't know what is "dealer steering" and now you say that you are very familar with it!
No, I merely wasn't familiar with what it was that you were trying to say. The thread was on biased wheels, and you threw in some off hand remark about "dealer steering."
QuoteRoulettebeater-Dealer's steering at its best
I merely didn't understand your jargon, that's all. It's just the language (jargon) barrier. If you had said "dealer sector shooting" and perhaps articulated what it was that you were attempting to convey just a little better then I wouldn't have asked the question.
QuoteYou have to be banned! and i am sure "tuner" will do, he just put you on his watchlist
:twisted:
Why? ???
QuoteRoulettebeater-But my style of play deactivates this mathematical model, because i am advantage player, in other words i target the wheel not the layout, for me it makes no difference if the wheel has one, two or even three zero!
Now, earlier you mentioned that you were an AP. Can you elaborate on that further? What exactly is your style of play?
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 08:13 AM 2018Where on earth still computers legal ?
In around half of jurisdictions. When new profit-split players join my team, it's a requirement that they do legal research for where they intend to play. So I have details of legalities in most jurisdictions. I also paid my own lawyer to do research but she wasted time and money researching jurisdictions I already knew about.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 08:13 AM 2018Didn't you hear drsudoku when he said that all casino in the U.S are not tolerating even a small telephone held in the hands of players near their wheels !
Every casino forbids using phones at the table. They ask you to step back.
1. Using a phone is not illegal.
2. Using a roulette computer is legal in about half of casinos.
3. Using a roulette computer is never "allowed" by the casinos. But "not allowed" and "illegal" are very different things.
4. The computers are never visible when being used.
Quote from: cht on Apr 19, 07:41 AM 2018If those rubbish stuff work, there will be a lot of successful VB players but that's not the case. Just google to find them.
VB players are actually quite common. It is not at all difficult to do well with VB. It just takes suitable conditions and a solid technique. Google doesn't hold all the truth. It's just a reflection of people's understanding. That's why half of the internet is a load of shit.
Quote from: cht on Apr 19, 07:41 AM 2018When you truly mastered VB you realise that roulette is not a random game.
You dont need to master it to know its not random. It's quite clearly not random with some basic observations.
Quote from: cht on Apr 19, 07:41 AM 2018True VB masters are able to demonstrate their skill for real in front of your eyes in a b&m casino.
Most wouldn't be interested in wasting their time. Some would be interesting in sharing some knowledge, but would generally keep the best parts to themselves.
Frank Scoblete is more a craps guy. He's not too knowledgeable about roulette.
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 19, 11:21 AM 2018Like the doctor says they dont let you have techno at the table, know it as i had clipboard and not opened and as floor manager walked by stopped in his tracks and ask what you got there, a clipboard mate, ok, walked off, if been a laptop what would have been said
Yeah the casinos don't like to lose. I probably have more legal research about computers than anyone. They are legal in about half of casinos. Still if you are detected playing where legal, they just apply countermeasures. But its not hard to avoid detection in the first place.
Everyone needs to understand the difference between illegal and forbidden. A private establishment can make whatever rules they want.
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 19, 11:21 AM 2018If Dad told me way back, then its obvious bias wheels are watched and corrected back in the day a simple move around would f*** up the generals of the day.
Your dad was no roulette expert. Quite often I see likely bias in data i check. But we ignore it usually in favor of other approaches.
You need to understand it's nearly impossible for a wheel to not be biased to some degree. Wheels are manufactured devices and still have defects. And they degrade and bias becomes more apparent.
But casinos analyze their wheels for bias, right? Actually their software is largely inadequate. It doesnt have the capability to listen for sounds and make visual observations, so an attentive bias player can easily detect and exploit a bias before the casino has any idea.
Are "sufficiently biased" wheels common? No. But this attack against biased wheels, and vb, is actually an attack against Caleb.
I don't particularly care for bias analysis, or vb. But they are valid methods including in today's casinos.
For bias, you realistically need a network of scouts. For vb, suitable conditions are much more common but you still need to scout around a bit.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 01:42 PM 2018Yes for sanctions against the general, that what the morons here are calling for
When you all stop attacking him personally, and he's attacking people personally without provocation, he will be moderated. For now, he is being attacked personally and comparatively he is not biting back. I dont care what he's like at other forums. This is a different forum with different rules.
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 19, 02:54 PM 2018I am actually a very modest guy
Same. I fucking rock.
Regarding Caleb, everyone needs to consider their own behavior towards him before complaining.
Regarding dealer "steering", first get information from someone who has actual spun a wheel before. Even better, owns one, or a few. It's explained in detail at link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/can-roulette-dealers-make-you-lose/ - basically its possible in strict conditions. If I knew a specific rotor and ball speed produced a specific winning area, I could target that on the right wheel. To hit or avoid a sector, I could adjust the rotor release point. Definitely its possible but takes the right conditions.
its obvious why he is here. to make a point that "turbo is wrong", with steves support of course.
It will go downhill quickly
I guess the theater "over there" was not large enough
Maybe, maybe not. But while he is not breaking rules, he can contribute.
Like I said he is not the one causing trouble at the moment.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 19, 08:02 PM 2018
Maybe, maybe not. But while he is not breaking rules, he can contribute.
Like I said he is not the one causing trouble at the moment.
which is predictable....
Not sure what you mean by that. But you know RG, you're not an angel either. At times you're just as much of an antagonist. Especially with the whole ken saga. You were almost as bad as each other. Ken was only worse because he kept going at the brief times you stopped. The whole bickering thing wastes my time having to tend to it. Caleb is allowed to share his views. If he steps over the line, first consider other people's treatment of him. It wont excuse a poor response from him, but you'll better understand the situation.
What I see is his views are unpopular, truth or not. Even when he's not being condescending, he is attacked as if he was being condescending. Then he responds by being condescending. It's his way of saying "I'm not the one with the problem. You are."
And sometimes yes he can be a downright ass. But the majority of the time, his posts are helpful if people read carefully. For example, the vampire thread as I see it was using humor to make a point. Nothing else seems to work and truth is ignored anyway. You see such posts as negative. But I see them as something that may actually help people, although it might not be the best approach. But then again, blatantly explaining it in very clear english doesnt work either.
You can argue that he throws the whole forum out of balance. But actually the forum is very heavily out of balance towards losing approaches. Although the truth is unpopular, the truth is the truth. And its more beneficial than BS. Don't you agree?
You argue system players like to tinker and dont care about facts. Actually I think the majority of people here actually want to make money, and take roulette seriously.
Is it really that hard to be respectful of each other? Not to like each other, just stay out of each other's way. Remember if people don't like what he has to say, then start discussions in the system players section where he cant post.
Either way you're not going to like everyone. Perhaps don't waste time fighting against people you don't like.
And like I said, if he or anyone breaks the rules, they'll go on moderation. It's a few clicks.
a wise man once said "Snowman is cleaning and rummaging around his old treasure chest . Cleans it, irons it and presents it as NEW."
Quote from: Steve on Apr 19, 07:38 PM 2018
I don't particularly care for bias analysis, or vb. But they are valid methods including in today's casinos.
For bias, you realistically need a network of scouts. For vb, suitable conditions are much more common but you still need to scout around a bit.
VB's edge is a lot larger than wheel bias with much less variance.
VB is easy to learn. Just that there's a lot of misinformation on the internet.
It's not difficult to find suitable wheels. The difficult wheels can still be beaten but the edge is small.
My problem with rc, example jafco is that it picked pockets in sectors that are unlikely to get hit.
Out of the 4predictions
ALWAYS at least 2 of them is outside the predicted sector.
So I wonder why the computer make the mistake of picking pockets outside the possible sector which makes me question it's accuracy.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 19, 08:52 PM 2018
a wise man once said "Snowman is cleaning and rummaging around his old treasure chest . Cleans it, irons it and presents it as NEW."
Another man once said... "and you're still attacking Caleb."
Quote from: cht on Apr 19, 09:01 PM 2018
VB's edge is a lot larger than wheel bias with much less variance.
VB is easy to learn. Just that there's a lot of misinformation on the internet.
In general vb has a higher edge. Not always, but usually. Yes there is some disinformation. Unfortunately some of it's purposefully put there. I'm guilty of it too.
QuoteMy problem with rc, example jafco is that it picked pockets in sectors that are unlikely to get hit.
There are many ways out there. Some have short comings. Some are better than others.
QuoteOut of the 4predictions ALWAYS at least 2 of them is outside the predicted sector.
So I wonder why the computer make the mistake of picking pockets outside the possible sector which makes me question it's accuracy.
If you want to be good with a computer, become good without one first. Take the time to study the fundamentals if you don't already know them.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 19, 09:03 PM 2018
Another man once said... "and you're still attacking Caleb."
before or after he called people retards?
In response to someone selling a system that did not work, Caleb said "This is retarded. Shame on you for trying to pull a scam."
In retrospect, moderating him just for that was unjustified. He did not call anyone a retard. At least not here.
RG this could go in circles forever. I think we both have better things to do.
It seems most members here are pensioner and have nothing to do than lose money to the house and write silly remarks on forum
:)
QuoteIt seems most members here are pensioner and have nothing to do than lose money to the house and write silly remarks on forum
just a silly assumption i guess :twisted:
Quote from: maestro on Apr 20, 04:53 AM 2018
just a silly assumption i guess :twisted:
Read well, I said "most" not all
!
Roulettebeater,
Can you tell us about your style of AP play?
Quote from: The General on Apr 20, 12:43 PM 2018
Roulettebeater,
Can you tell us about your style of AP play?
Privately, only!
i don't discuss sensitive information publicly
sorry!
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 20, 05:49 PM 2018
Privately, only!
i don't discuss sensitive information publicly
sorry!
Ermm...but didn't you start a thread on it some where here?
Ok, tell me privately what it's about on Skype messenger if you'd like or email.
I will PM you my Skype name.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/21/temp_673708.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s6WnK)
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Apr 21, 05:09 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/21/temp_673708.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/s6WnK)
RIP Verne Troyer
Yes that was a real bummer. He was cool.
RIP mini me
he had a cooking show staring on his facebook page. The food looked terrible but watching him was a good time