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Roulette-focused => Main Roulette Board => Topic started by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:23 AM 2019

Title: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:23 AM 2019
The question is not how to win at roulette!

The question is not about the roulette payout!'

Very simple question... does random have limits?

Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 10, 07:54 PM 2019
Let me paint a picture for you....

If I sit down on the table and I write down 1-15 outcomes of spins into 5 columns using only dozens outcomes and the zero.

So 15 spins

1.â€"â€"4.â€"â€"7..â€"â€"10.â€"â€"-13.â€"â€"
2.â€"â€"5.â€"â€"8.â€"â€"11..â€"â€"-14.â€"â€"
3.â€"â€"6..â€"â€"9..â€"â€"12..â€"â€"-15.â€"â€"

How many spins would I have to write down before one of my dozens repeats on the same line?

Would I fill all 15 spins without a repeat is that possible?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:37 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 10, 11:47 PM 2019
Here's a simpler example for you. Consider a coin toss. There are two outcomes: head and tails.

No matter what you bet, you have a 50% chance of winning. So if the game was fair, the payout will be 1:1.

Will changing your bet size change the outcome? Nope. How about betting a repeat in X tosses will or wont happen? Nope. You still have 1:1 odds.

Now imagine if the payout for wins was 10% less.

You arent going to just break even. You'll gradually lose more and more over time. Even when you win with the expected 50% accuracy, you'll still lose.

I dont understand why many of you just dont get it.

Your getting into the uneven payout... you didn’t answer my question!

But let me answer yours.....

If I play a game that is 50/50 but I get paid 10% less on a win.

Would I really care if I win 61%?

If you can increase the accuracy of your prediction and win at a higher rate. 

Would this uneven payout matter to you?

See your stuck on the payout. 

I’m asking you about the limit!  Once you can see there is a limit then you can see what are the possibilities to reach an end.

The payout doesn’t matter if your winning more then you should be.... or am I saying something wrong here?

You preach all the time increase the accuracy of your prediction! 

So if you increase the accuracy... would the uneven payout matter?

Cant help but repeat myself  :o
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Roulettebeater on Feb 11, 02:38 AM 2019
in programming, we can generate long sequences of random numbers.
if we seed the data with the same value, we will get same numbers.. so regarding your question.. no, random has no limits, unless you know the seed.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:48 AM 2019
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Feb 11, 02:38 AM 2019
in programming, we can generate long sequences of random numbers.
if we seed the data with the same value, we will get same numbers.. so regarding your question.. no, random has no limits, unless you know the seed.

You are right.... now let’s bring the random to roulette.

Can there be more then 36 number and 0/00?

Can I get 39 when I spin the wheel?

Can I get 45 when I spin the wheel?

If I play red and black... can I get blue? Or yellow? Pink?

If I play dozens... can dozen containing numbers 37-48 come out?

After red... I can get another red or a black or a green zero.

So....
RR
RB
R0

These are the only options after my first red... I can’t get anything else.  So this game of ours has a limit. 
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:51 AM 2019
I invite anyone to fill my 15 spins with dozens and prove me wrong.  Find a way for no dozen to repeat in the same row after all 15 spins.  Use actual spins

1...4...7...10...13

2...5...8...11....14

3...6...9....12...15

There are 27 combinations of 3 digits... you can even add the 0/00.

Use actual spins and prove me wrong

Could be rng, real table, or from random.org

Doesn’t matter!!!!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 02:54 AM 2019
You arent increasing your odds. Sorry.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: buffalowizard on Feb 11, 03:09 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:51 AM 2019
I invite anyone to fill my 15 spins with dozens and prove me wrong.  Find a way for no dozen to repeat in the same row after all 15 spins.  Use actual spins

1...4...7...10...13

2...5...8...11....14

3...6...9....12...15

There are 27 combinations of 3 digits... you can even add the 0/00.

Use actual spins and prove me wrong

Could be rng, real table, or from random.org

Doesn’t matter!!!!
I've seen 15 chops on dozens plenty of times. You'd need one helluva progression too
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 03:33 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 11, 02:54 AM 2019
You arent increasing your odds. Sorry.

Hahaha I replied to what you asked me.  I didn’t share any info about increasing my odds. 

I asked you a question.  If I can increase my chances to get better then 50/50 on the win.  Would the uneven payout matter?

Also... answer my question on this random game being limited based on my 15 spin chart!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 03:37 AM 2019
Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 11, 03:09 AM 2019
I've seen 15 chops on dozens plenty of times. You'd need one helluva progression too
Please read my first post....

It’s not about winning!  It’s about random being limited.

You can’t get past the 15 spins.  No combination you use with dozens and the zero will give you what I ask using random sequence or actual sequence.

Forget progression!  Forget winning!

I’m showing you something...
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: hanshuckebein on Feb 11, 03:51 AM 2019
is this about the pigeonhole principle? :-\
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 05:06 AM 2019
I did answer both questions. You didn't understand the answer.

Ultimately if you know how to win, just keep doing it.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 11, 05:13 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:23 AM 2019Very simple question... does random have limits?
Simple answer:  Yes

Mathematics can be treated like a religion:
In the holy book of distributions page 847 there you can read this and that (true things, in the insight view). Some lousy priests say: this is written, who thinks different deserves death.

Reality is: there is always more than human mind can imagine.

Mathematics is not so simple bordered as their priests tell.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 05:19 AM 2019
Do numbers have limits too?

Tell me please, what supports your statement?

If you flew around the planet from east to west, would you eventually reach the north pole too?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 05:22 AM 2019
Quote from: Herby on Feb 11, 05:13 AM 2019Mathematics can be treated like a religion:

No. Math is not open to interpretation. The solution to an equation is absolute.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 11, 05:28 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 11, 05:22 AM 2019
The solution to an equation is absolute.
This is "Doing Calculations"  >:D, of course based on the rules of Math.

Quote from: Steve on Feb 11, 05:22 AM 2019
No. Math is not open to interpretation.
The world is open to interpretion by Maths.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 05:49 AM 2019
Random has no limits. Thats why it's random!

37 different numbers appearing in 37 spins is 36!/37^36 or one chance in 1.3xE-15. It's a small chance but it can happen and will happen given enough play. It could happen in your column tomorrow and again the next day.

Probably won't happen, but there enough chances of other random things happening to defeat in the long run (for example) a strategy of waiting for 24 numbers and playing for repeats.

I could prove for you in three lines that 1=2, but not without dividing by zero ie I'd have to break a rule.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 05:51 AM 2019
Quote from: Herby on Feb 11, 05:28 AM 2019This is "Doing Calculations"  >:D, of course based on the rules of Math

Quote from: Herby on Feb 11, 05:28 AM 2019The world is open to interpretion by Maths.


Since when did 1+1= it depends?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 05:53 AM 2019
No wonder the world is like it is. When all reason is.. gone.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 06:07 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 11, 05:53 AM 2019
No wonder the world is like it is. When all reason is.. gone.

It's always been like that though. There's never been enough reason to go round.

If you dress up a proposition in a fancy enough way, there will always be people willing to fall for it.  Gaming systems on fixed odds low payout games are like religion. You have to suspend reason and just believe.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 06:28 AM 2019
Belief based on what??
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 06:56 AM 2019
Belief isn't based on anything that can be justified by reason. When it comes to religion they call it faith ;)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 07:15 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 11, 05:49 AM 2019
Random has no limits. Thats why it's random!

37 different numbers appearing in 37 spins is 36!/37^36 or one chance in 1.3xE-15. It's a small chance but it can happen and will happen given enough play. It could happen in your column tomorrow and again the next day.

Probably won't happen, but there enough chances of other random things happening to defeat in the long run (for example) a strategy of waiting for 24 numbers and playing for repeats.

I could prove for you in three lines that 1=2, but not without dividing by zero ie I'd have to break a rule.

It will never happen 37 numbers out the mechanics of roulette will never let it happen you will have the at least in the most impossible event 1 unhit and 1 repeat at the end of a cycle
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 11, 07:28 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 11, 05:49 AM 201937 different numbers appearing in 37 spins is 36!/37^36 or one chance in 1.3xE-15.

The calculation is correct.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 07:45 AM 2019
Yes should be 1 chance in 1.3 x E 15 or probability 1.3 x E-15 I meant to say, but it is a finite small chance.

Add to that all the other chances of just 1 number repeating or just  2 numbers repeating or just 3 numbers repeating etc and you have why waiting for 24 numbers and betting on repeats doesn't work.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 07:51 AM 2019
Quote from: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 07:15 AM 2019
It will never happen 37 numbers out the mechanics of roulette will never let it happen you will have the at least in the most impossible event 1 unhit and 1 repeat at the end of a cycle

Of course the mechanics of roulette will let it happen. It's just a wheel selecting numbers. It has no intent, no brain, and no memory.

Are you telling me that you can throw a die and you will never get the numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6 in six throws?

It is just the same with a 37 sided die except statistically less likely, the more numbers you add, the smaller the chance.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Kattila on Feb 11, 07:56 AM 2019
This is not a betselection, just example....
Take a sequence of 14 spins,  14 different
splits or 14 diff numbers then give them pair. Now put them into groups/ order
12341234123412, we have here only positions 4, 8, 12(between same group of no). Still missing 4 splits, even if they hit
and i put them in same order, at some point groups will change the position, because  random is .....random can t stay to much in order. Nothing is independent
here anymore, because the numbers belong to a group and  an order. 
So i say random have limits.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 09:53 AM 2019
Random means that on the next  spin any number from 0 to 36 has an equal chance of appearing, that's all it means.

It doesn't matter if the previous 5 spins number 32 has appeared. If the wheel is fair and random,  the chance 32 will appear the next spin is still 1 in 37, the odds have not altered. The number 32 can appear for the rest of eternity on that wheel, or it can appear never again. These are both possible events, but at the same time unlikely.

That is why people are struggling with the fallacy, and trying to predict what will happen from what has happened... and losing. Triggers, repeaters, sleepers, the law of the third and the rest are all garbage on a random wheel. All that matters is the next spin, and that is not affected by the previous spins, on a fair random wheel.

When 32 has occured 5 times in a row, you're confusing the probability that it will appear on the next spin with the probability that it will occur 6 times in a row.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 10:59 AM 2019
That’s an argument that can go on forever and I understand your position on the subject..
No disrespect to you Firefox or others with this argument but with this line of thought why bother joining a roulette forum when this is the answer all along ..there’s so much going for this argument you gave ..
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 11, 11:00 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 11, 09:53 AM 2019garbage on a random wheel
If you find garbage on a wheel it should be cleaned.

Quote from: Firefox on Feb 11, 09:53 AM 2019the law of the thirdl

The so called law of the third is just 1/e   e... Eulers number. 
I'm sure nobody of the fallacy criers knows how this is connected.

( Euler was a famous Mathematician)   >:D
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 11:05 AM 2019
Quote from: Herby on Feb 11, 11:00 AM 2019
If you find garbage on a wheel it should be cleaned.

The so called law of the third is just 1/e   e... Eulers number. 
I'm sure nobody of the fallacy criers knows how this is connected.

( Euler was a famous Mathematician)   >:D

That must of been Dr Sir anyone’s friend who made the law of the third up ..
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 11, 11:11 AM 2019
Quote from: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 11:05 AM 2019That must of been Dr Sir anyone’s friend who made the law of the third up ..

There is a big difference.

Euler was a genius.
Caleb just believes ...  (that he has friends  >:D )
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: The General on Feb 11, 11:37 AM 2019
The law of the third  (should be the law of the gullible  :xd:) is the made up term to describe the normal distribution (binomial distribution).   The normal distribution has been known for a very long time.  And if you understood the distribution you'd understand that it proves that there's too many numbers on the wheel in order to break even, and that it in no way helps the gullible player predict which individual numbers are more likely to hit on the next series of spins. 

Saying that the law of the third is useful is like saying that the law of the EC can used to beat roulette as well.   ::)  I'm sure that there are plenty of gullible people that would chase that fallacy as well.   :xd:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 11:45 AM 2019
Quote from: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 10:59 AM 2019
That’s an argument that can go on forever and I understand your position on the subject..
No disrespect to you Firefox or others with this argument but with this line of thought why bother joining a roulette forum when this is the answer all along ..there’s so much going for this argument you gave ..

Well, many system players enjoy discussing, inventing and playing staking systems without regard to true principles of maths or probability, or indeed what is random. Nothing wrong with that. There's a section on this forum where you can do exactly that without anyone contradicting.

Or there is this general forum where anyone can post anything (including the sometimes painful truth).

There's yet another forum where only advantage play is discussed.

So whatever your outlook there is a place for you.

I joined this forum to see what I could learn about current trends in advantage play and also to talk about the true probabilities of the game.

There's a lot of people who browse here and don't post. Probably many who are new to the game. If they see number 32 coming up 5 times and believe the chance of it coming up on the next spin is anything other than 1/37 after reading here, we've done them a dis-service. They are going to lose their monthly pay check pretty quick.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 12:08 PM 2019
Thanku for your reply Firefox..
That was very well thought out  and explained
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Roulettebeater on Feb 11, 12:42 PM 2019
Quote from: The General on Feb 11, 11:37 AM 2019
The law of the third  (should be the law of the gullible  :xd:) is the made up term to describe the normal distribution (binomial distribution).   The normal distribution has been known for a very long time.  And if you understood the distribution you'd understand that it proves that there's too many numbers on the wheel in order to break even, and that it in no way helps the gullible player predict which individual numbers are more likely to hit on the next series of spins. 

Saying that the law of the third is useful is like saying that the law of the EC can used to beat roulette as well.   ::)  I'm sure that there are plenty of gullible people that would chase that fallacy as well.   :xd:

The greatest showman talks!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 12:55 PM 2019
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Feb 11, 03:51 AM 2019
is this about the pigeonhole principle? :-\

No it’s not
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 12:58 PM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 11, 05:22 AM 2019
No. Math is not open to interpretation. The solution to an equation is absolute.

Very true but you know

2+3=5
1+4=5

The equation you might be using is probably the issue of why you can’t seem to understand the solution  :ooh:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 01:09 PM 2019
Quote from: Kattila on Feb 11, 07:56 AM 2019
This is not a betselection, just example....
Take a sequence of 14 spins,  14 different
splits or 14 diff numbers then give them pair. Now put them into groups/ order
12341234123412, we have here only positions 4, 8, 12(between same group of no). Still missing 4 splits, even if they hit
and i put them in same order, at some point groups will change the position, because  random is .....random can t stay to much in order. Nothing is independent
here anymore, because the numbers belong to a group and  an order. 
So i say random have limits.

Good example.... so doesn’t matter how I group them each will have limits according to their own groups

Hmmmm interesting
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 01:28 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 11, 09:53 AM 2019
Random means that on the next  spin any number from 0 to 36 has an equal chance of appearing, that's all it means.

It doesn't matter if the previous 5 spins number 32 has appeared. If the wheel is fair and random,  the chance 32 will appear the next spin is still 1 in 37, the odds have not altered. The number 32 can appear for the rest of eternity on that wheel, or it can appear never again. These are both possible events, but at the same time unlikely.

That is why people are struggling with the fallacy, and trying to predict what will happen from what has happened... and losing. Triggers, repeaters, sleepers, the law of the third and the rest are all garbage on a random wheel. All that matters is the next spin, and that is not affected by the previous spins, on a fair random wheel.

When 32 has occured 5 times in a row, you're confusing the probability that it will appear on the next spin with the probability that it will occur 6 times in a row.

You are Absolutely correct...

You can’t predict the next spin! 

If your method is based on these random numbers it will eventually fail.

32 can come up 10 times in a row.  It might not but it can happen.


But why would your method depend on this? It’s dumb and makes no sense and you should lose each and every time.

Just because I said a dozens will repeat on the same line in 15 spins...??

I didn’t say this is a winning method.  I’m showing you the idea.

It will happen....  none of you guys have proven me wrong yet
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 01:58 PM 2019
Quote from: The General on Feb 11, 11:37 AM 2019
The law of the third  (should be the law of the gullible  :xd:) is the made up term to describe the normal distribution (binomial distribution).   The normal distribution has been known for a very long time.  And if you understood the distribution you'd understand that it proves that there's too many numbers on the wheel in order to break even, and that it in no way helps the gullible player predict which individual numbers are more likely to hit on the next series of spins. 

Saying that the law of the third is useful is like saying that the law of the EC can used to beat roulette as well.   ::)  I'm sure that there are plenty of gullible people that would chase that fallacy as well.   :xd:

Yes there are to many numbers!!  This is where your method needs to be good...

At ruling out numbers.... see if your idea is in a specific format then you control what you do based on what happens. Take my 15 spins for example...

If first 3 spins I have dozen

1
1
1

Chances of me getting a repeat are 1out 3 on the game.  Nothing changes that is a fact!!!!!!!!!!

But the chances of me getting the 1 to line up in the next 3 spins on this piece of paper are based on what I’m doing here now and it’s based on a 3 spin result not on 1.


There is a different math being played on paper which is based on more then 1 spin.  Yes the wheel can do whatever it wants.  It is used to give us numbers. 

But numbers follow a law....

You can take random numbers from 5 different wheels

And then take numbers from 5 different wheels in another city and what I’m telling you will be the same.

You can take a number from a wheel in Europe and then the next spin from a wheel in the USA.  And what I’m telling you will be the same

You can combine rng number with real wheel number and what I’m telling you will be the same.

Don’t confuse the principle being used to explain the idea.

As more numbers come out the balance shifts from numbers that haven’t came out to numbers that have came out.  Regardless of the wheel being able to distribute any number
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 02:31 PM 2019
Quote from: 6th-sense on Feb 11, 07:15 AM 2019It will never happen 37 numbers out the mechanics of roulette will never let it happen you will have the at least in the most impossible event 1 unhit and 1 repeat at the end of a cycle

And woosh, reality goes over his head.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 11, 02:35 PM 2019
I dont have time to teach primary school math, and really basic logic. If you have the hg, stop arguing. Just go use it.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 03:03 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 01:58 PM 2019

As more numbers come out the balance shifts from numbers that haven’t came out to numbers that have came out.  Regardless of the wheel being able to distribute any number

No balance shifts. Not for the future at any rate. And the future is all we are concerned about on a random wheel. They don't allow us to bet on past results.

We can take as our strategy the next 37 spins and we can say that when those spins have happened there are likely to have been repeats. But we don't know which numbers will repeat so we are no further forward.

Every time a number occurs or repeats, the cycle is reset. Previous data is now irrelevant.

The only probabilities that count on a fair random wheel are the a priori ones. This means without regard to previous results.

People are trying to use Bayesian methods to make betting decisions. Bayesian statistics make use of previous distributions or results to predict future ones. It's very useful in many fields eg medicine, politics, or the stock market. Anywhere where there are flaws or trends or conditional probability which could be repeated.

On a fair and random wheel, there are no flaws or trends... and no limits.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 06:21 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 11, 03:03 PM 2019
No balance shifts. Not for the future at any rate. And the future is all we are concerned about on a random wheel. They don't allow us to bet on past results.

We can take as our strategy the next 37 spins and we can say that when those spins have happened there are likely to have been repeats. But we don't know which numbers will repeat so we are no further forward.

Every time a number occurs or repeats, the cycle is reset. Previous data is now irrelevant.

The only probabilities that count on a fair random wheel are the a priori ones. This means without regard to previous results.

People are trying to use Bayesian methods to make betting decisions. Bayesian statistics make use of previous distributions or results to predict future ones. It's very useful in many fields eg medicine, politics, or the stock market. Anywhere where there are flaws or trends or conditional probability which could be repeated.

On a fair and random wheel, there are no flaws or trends... and no limits.

Honestly you guys are so blinded by the math of the game you can’t see past it.

Everything your saying is correct and I agree with you.

1.Take my 15 spins...
2.Use actual spins or rng whatever
3.rinse and repeat a trillion spins if you want


The outcome will always be the same... at least 1 dozen repeat on the same line.  This has nothing to do with the wheel or where you get the numbers from! 

Now because you can’t see how to apply the information is one thing.  But it doesn’t change the FACT.

See this is a Fact..... forget odds and pay out.

Look at the FACT.... 15 spins in 5 columns of 3 rows.

Write dozens and try not to get a repeat per row before spin 15.

Use roulette use rng.... have your kid count 012301230123 and tell them stop and write it.... doesn’t matter

FACT!!!!


Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: The General on Feb 11, 06:27 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 06:21 PM 2019
Honestly you guys are so blinded by the math of the game you can’t see past it.

Everything your saying is correct and I agree with you.

1.Take my 15 spins...
2.Use actual spins or rng whatever
3.rinse and repeat a trillion spins if you want


The outcome will always be the same... at least 1 dozen repeat on the same line.  This has nothing to do with the wheel or where you get the numbers from! 

Now because you can’t see how to apply the information is one thing.  But it doesn’t change the FACT.

See this is a Fact..... forget odds and pay out.

Look at the FACT.... 15 spins in 5 columns of 3 rows.

Write dozens and try not to get a repeat per row before spin 15.

Use roulette use rng.... have your kid count 012301230123 and tell them stop and write it.... doesn’t matter

FACT!!!!

Money,

Well, as you can see we're all close minded around here.  We're also trying to keep you guys from winning too much money!  :xd:
You should try sharing your views over at the wizardofvegas.com where they're all more open minded.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: buffalowizard on Feb 11, 07:21 PM 2019
I'm not understanding. Whats the difference between rows and just having a single long line of 15?

1 2 3 1 2
1 2 3 1 2
1 2 3 1 2

Or

1
2
3
1
2
1
2
3
1
2
1
2
3
1
2

Same difference or is there something magical about the rows or "matrix"?
Is Fender back or something
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: buffalowizard on Feb 11, 07:29 PM 2019
Lastly, it is of course possible for them to not repeat. I just ran through 6 sets of 15 and a couple of times they only repeated near the end of the last row...you don't think if I did it another thousand times it wouldn't bust?

Everything can be figured out in exact percentages in this game. Its beautiful how efficient it all runs. Yep, you'll get a heck of a long run but it'll blow out eventually. Does some math head know the chances of 15 chops on the dozens ?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 08:31 PM 2019
Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 11, 07:29 PM 2019
Lastly, it is of course possible for them to not repeat. I just ran through 6 sets of 15 and a couple of times they only repeated near the end of the last row...you don't think if I did it another thousand times it wouldn't bust?

Everything can be figured out in exact percentages in this game. Its beautiful how efficient it all runs. Yep, you'll get a heck of a long run but it'll blow out eventually. Does some math head know the chances of 15 chops on the dozens ?

Your not understanding...

Take 15 spins of dozen outcome and fill in the table a created

1...4...7
2...5...8
3...6...9
Etc

Now he first row contains 1,4,7,10,13 outcomes

On this line there will be atleast a repeat of a dozen.  No way around it unless you get two zeros on the same line.

But what I am saying is by the 15th spin atleast one line will reach a repeat on the dozen.

You will get this same outcome if you take first 5 spins then next 5.  But I labeled it like this for easy viewing.

It’s not about matrices.... give me 15 random spins of dozen sequences you can include the zero if you want or not.

15 random spins
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 11, 09:07 PM 2019
Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 11, 07:29 PM 2019Does some math head know the chances of 15 chops on the dozens ?

15 spins without a repeat or zero would be

1x(24/37)^15 = 0.0015 or 1.5 chances in 1000

Ignoring zero, it would be a little over  2 chances in 1000, or 1 trial in 500 attempts in round terms.

So in 13 hours at the casino, you'd stand a fair chance of seeing it. In fact a 63% chance you'd see it at 40 spins per hour.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: ati on Feb 12, 01:41 AM 2019
I'm not exactly sure what you are showing here, because you are asking the question as if it was mathematically impossible not to see a repeat. It could happen with a lot of zeros, but I agree that it is extremely unlikely.

I also agree that there are many limits in roulette that could be exploited. It's been a while since I studied the infamous "non random" way of playing, but I reread some old threads yesterday and it revived my interest.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 12, 01:51 AM 2019
Money, have you ever seen the sequence 32,14,35,9,0,21,2?

It is so rare. Im guessing youll never see it in your lifetime. Why dont you make a betting system of it?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 12, 02:46 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 12, 01:51 AM 2019
Money, have you ever seen the sequence 32,14,35,9,0,21,2?

It is so rare. Im guessing youll never see it in your lifetime. Why dont you make a betting system of it?

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

You must think your so funny hahahah

It’s more silly, me looking at you trying to be funny and clueless  :twisted:

With all your math and all your experience hahahah, you have PhD in all of the math department and can’t see something so simple.

So your telling me...

If I play just 1 double street per spin and I win 35% of the time. 

I should be focused and worried about the uneven payout?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 12, 02:58 AM 2019
It's "you're", as in "you are" not too bright.

I wasnt trying to be funny. I was highlighting your really bad understanding.

You've got no idea. It's your problem. But lets just say your right, your the expert. I was wrong.

Happy winnings.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 12, 03:05 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 12, 02:58 AM 2019
It's "you're", as in "you are" not too bright.

I wasnt trying to be funny. I was highlighting your really bad understanding.

You've got no idea. It's your problem. But lets just say your right, your the expert. I was wrong.

Happy winnings.

Now I need to use proper spelling and grammar, when you know very well; what was being said lol

Sorry professor 🙏
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 12, 03:07 AM 2019
Quote from: ati on Feb 12, 01:41 AM 2019
I'm not exactly sure what you are showing here, because you are asking the question as if it was mathematically impossible not to see a repeat. It could happen with a lot of zeros, but I agree that it is extremely unlikely.

I also agree that there are many limits in roulette that could be exploited. It's been a while since I studied the infamous "non random" way of playing, but I reread some old threads yesterday and it revived my interest.
The really cool thing is that numbers behave the same way.  There just that!!! Numbers!

The numbers spun by the wheel mean nothing.  They aren’t real!!!!

If you change each number and put a picture of an animal.  It’s the same...

A couple of years ago dyksexlic tried to show the example using word roulette where he change each number to 37 words.

Well it’s the same thing I am saying but for you to get to this point you need to understand the basics. 

And we can’t get past that 🤦‍â™,️
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 12, 05:37 AM 2019
Yeah numbers are just tags/names for pockets it's true. A lot of people don't get past that though. There's Dr Karl with his logarithms and more than one thread I've seen on here where people use numerology principles, adding the digits like 13 31 22 & 4 and calling that the 4 group, which follows another group, which comes with or before it. Really strange stuff.

It would be so much more logical to play on sectors or frequency which at least has some remote chance of a physical bias
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blueprint on Feb 12, 07:21 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 12, 05:37 AM 2019It would be so much more logical to play on sectors or frequency which at least has some remote chance of a physical bias

I think, perhaps, you have missed the point.  If the numbers are irrelevant, so is a need for anything "physical."
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Bigbroben on Feb 12, 08:00 AM 2019
Quote from: PassionRuleta on Feb 12, 07:37 AM 2019
I have the form that says dyksexlic and always, always what he says is true, it's incredible.

I bet it costs 37u to get a hit on average
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: The General on Feb 12, 11:25 AM 2019
Quote from: PassionRuleta on Feb 12, 07:37 AM 2019
In this if I can talk ... hehehe, because I know well about dyksexlic.
I have the form that says dyksexlic and always, always what he says is true, it's incredible.
It's the only thing I can verify 100% safe.
MoneyT101, do you know what dyksexlic does?
The truth is that it is very difficult for people to really discover what they are doing, it is easy when you know it, but it is difficult to decipher it.
I have it even programmed, although it is not absolutely necessary, it can also be done manually.
regards

PS: I even created my own form of game, different from dyksexlic, but I still do not find the handling of the box completely correct.

(link:s://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs027/1102631161596/img/906.jpg)
PassionRuleta,

Didn't they recently arrest your cult leader?
link:s://:1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/brazil/2018/12/psychic-john-of-god-is-arrested-after-turning-himself-in.shtml
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 12, 11:43 AM 2019
Quote from: Blueprint on Feb 12, 07:21 AM 2019
I think, perhaps, you have missed the point.  If the numbers are irrelevant, so is a need for anything "physical."

I'm assuming we're trying to find an edge. Can still do that,  even if the pockets are labelled differently with something other than numbers.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 12, 05:18 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 12, 11:43 AM 2019
I'm assuming we're trying to find an edge. Can still do that,  even if the pockets are labelled differently with something other than numbers.

Exactly!!!  What I am saying is that if you have a way to win.  You can win no matter where the numbers come from.

We can play roulette with rng/live wheel/even write the numbers on a piece of paper and pull out of a hat.

Doesn’t matter what comes out, Doesn’t matter if you have losses.  At the end of the cycle you will be at +1

The repeat can come on spin 1 or spin 100.  +1 will be the result

It all starts here....

15 spins..why can’t you go through all 15 spins without a repeat of a dozen on the same line using my chart?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 12, 05:24 PM 2019
(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/1e446d613be789c0252dde0570a59ae2/tenor.gif?itemid=3461149)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 13, 12:24 PM 2019
 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 14, 03:44 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 12, 05:18 PM 2019It all starts here....

15 spins..why can’t you go through all 15 spins without a repeat of a dozen on the same line using my chart?
Hi Money101,
Would the following also be true for you ?
Without 0:
You get at least your first repeat of a dozen on the same line by spin #10.

Why do you insist on 15 numbers ?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 14, 12:44 PM 2019
Quote from: Herby on Feb 14, 03:44 AM 2019
Hi Money101,
Would the following also be true for you ?
Without 0:
You get at least your first repeat of a dozen on the same line by spin #10.

Why do you insist on 15 numbers ?

Without 0 by spin 10 yes

Spins1-15 rng dozen outcome

1. 3 ..... 4. 2 ..... 7. 3 .....10. 2 .... 13. 3
2. 1 ..... 5. 2 ..... 8. 2 .... 11. 1 .... 14. 2
3. 2 ..... 6. 3 ..... 9. 3 .... 12. 3 ....15. 3

Now I have my 15 spins.... for this experiment I’m writing it out in rows of 3 but honestly it doesn’t matter. 

Now if I take row 1 which consist of spins 1,4,7,10,13 have the results 32323

What I am saying is mathematically it’s impossible using real spins or rng to go through all 15 spins without getting a repeat on the same line

So in this case 323.... by spin 7 the line had a repeat.   The repeat could start spin 4-6.  Even if you include zero outcomes.  For this not to be true you will need 6 zeros placed in specific spots and for the dozens not to repeat in specific spots.

Yes this is the same thing Pri was speaking about cycles just a different angle.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: buffalowizard on Feb 14, 01:02 PM 2019
How're you playing this then Money?

Wait for first line to go by before betting 10 stage prog on 12numbers?

If it is actually impossible for a repeat not to occur in 15, surely you are tearing it up in the casinos left, right and centre? Is that why you're called Money?!

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 14, 02:00 PM 2019
Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 14, 01:02 PM 2019
How're you playing this then Money?

I shared the principle! The idea.... but for the play you need to practice and learn what the information means.  There are multiple ways to use the info. 

Wait for first line to go by before betting 10 stage prog on 12numbers?

If it is actually impossible for a repeat not to occur in 15, surely you are tearing it up in the casinos left, right and centre? Is that why you're called Money?!

After testing so long and losing you get hesitant about playing something without making sure it works.... I played for the first time yesterday to be honest with you. I went with a sheet of paper and wrote down the spins and did my calculations.  Took me about an hour and half to play just 21 spins 🤦‍â™,️.  I was distracted a bit cause personal life issues and my mind was somewhere else. But still I played multiple games at same time.

-played the rng machine at the casino
-Made 84 units in 21 spins
-Highest bet was 1 unit on 4 different streets
- 1 unit on 3 different splits
- 1 unit on 4 different straights
- missed two wins on street cause I overlooked the play

Here are my spins...
20
31
14
5
11
30
20
36
8
24
12
27
35
4
3
26
28
5
10
25
32
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: buffalowizard on Feb 14, 02:07 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 14, 02:00 PM 2019
After testing so long and losing you get hesitant about playing something without making sure it works.... I played for the first time yesterday to be honest with you. I went with a sheet of paper and wrote down the spins and did my calculations.  Took me about an hour and half to play just 21 spins 🤦‍â™,️.  I was distracted a bit cause personal life issues and my mind was somewhere else. But still I played multiple games at same time.

-played the rng machine at the casino
-Made 84 units in 21 spins
-Highest bet was 1 unit on 4 different streets
- 1 unit on 3 different splits
- 1 unit on 4 different straights
- missed two wins on street cause I overlooked the play

Here are my spins...
20
31
14
5
11
30
20
36
8
24
12
27
35
4
3
26
28
5
10
25
32

Thank you I guess!
Cue page upon page of people trying to come up with the secret sauce without it ever being revealed.
I think I'll just start doing this from now on with my ideas
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 14, 02:07 PM 2019
This is where the general and Steve and the math experts cry cause they think im saying you can win with the idea I’m using to get my point across.

Now I’m not saying the 15 spin example is a winning method!!  This is the principle this is the idea.  This is just showing the limit of random for dozens which is 4 spins.

You need to understand the concept and need a tad bit of creativity.   Took me over 3 and a half years to see it 🤦‍â™,️ But it’s staring you in the face I can tell you that much.  Pri hinted it multiple times but lack of understanding; it gets ignored or we are blinded.  But she flat out tells you what to do 😅

But once you see it you can’t unsee it.

I’m sure there is more advanced ways to use it but you don’t need it. With patience and sticking to the principle.

The event has to happen!!!

No combination of numbers can happen to break the principle
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 14, 02:35 PM 2019
Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 14, 02:07 PM 2019
Thank you I guess!
Cue page upon page of people trying to come up with the secret sauce without it ever being revealed.
I think I'll just start doing this from now on with my ideas

The topic is called “does random have a limit?” 

I gave my 15 spin chart example to make it simple.  I shared my view... I gave hints about what to look for..

In no way shape or form did I say I’m revealing a method   :o

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: 2BobBet on Feb 15, 10:12 AM 2019
Money

You need to understand the concept and need a tad bit of creativity.   Took me over 3 and a half years to see it 🤦‍â™,️ But it’s staring you in the face I can tell you that much.  Pri hinted it multiple times but lack of understanding; it gets ignored or we are blinded.  But she flat out tells you what to do 😅


Can you tell us what Thread and page/post number this info was in ?, looks interesting but need some more info about this concept
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Irish88 on Feb 15, 10:40 AM 2019
Quote from: 2BobBet on Feb 15, 10:12 AM 2019
Money

You need to understand the concept and need a tad bit of creativity.   Took me over 3 and a half years to see it 🤦‍â™,️ But it’s staring you in the face I can tell you that much.  Pri hinted it multiple times but lack of understanding; it gets ignored or we are blinded.  But she flat out tells you what to do 😅


Can you tell us what Thread and page/post number this info was in ?, looks interesting but need some more info about this concept

2bob,

These 2 threads might help. I have tried to figure it out but I can't seem to grasp it. Something about a double street or two but when to play them. For the record I do believe MoneyT has a winning method.

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=19562.0

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=19684.msg186007#msg186007

If anyone figures it let me know!

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 16, 04:16 PM 2019
There's no limit on random numbers because one of the definitions of random numbers is that previous results have no influence on previous ones. Posting a win over 21 spins is meaningless. Posting a win over 1021 spins is meaningless.

Define a strategy over millions and billions of spins with relation to the RNG algorithm being used and you may have a case. Because RNG generators are not truly random like an unbiased physical wheel can be. But they are certainly random over billions and trillions (and many powers more) spins depending on methods. Trying to predict over 15 or 21 spins is laughable.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 16, 11:37 PM 2019
At what point do we stop calling flat earthers uneducated, and start calling them really stupid?

We can post all the proof imaginable. The response will be something like "you naysayer".
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Elite on Feb 17, 12:03 AM 2019
i think HG also has limits :)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 17, 05:30 AM 2019


Quote from: Firefox on Feb 16, 04:16 PM 2019
There's no limit on random numbers because one of the definitions of random numbers is that previous results have no influence on *previous ones.

*present or future ones
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Let Me Win on Feb 17, 05:56 AM 2019
We could ask a better question like does random behave differently when it's being observed?

As like in the double slit experiment.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 17, 08:21 AM 2019
The times when the wheel is not random are the times when you can legitimately beat the game.

Not by a staking system which throws higher losing bets at fixed odds, but by exploitation of an actual change in the odds themselves.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Mister Eko on Feb 17, 08:32 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 17, 08:21 AM 2019
The times when the wheel is not random are the times when you can legitimately beat the game.

Not by a staking system which throws higher losing bets at fixed odds, but by exploitation of an actual change in the odds themselves.

But the odds not changes in roulette.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: buffalowizard on Feb 17, 09:14 AM 2019
Quote from: Mister Eko on Feb 17, 08:32 AM 2019
But the odds not changes in roulette.
He's talking about VB and wobbly wheels. Odds dont come into it
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 17, 09:42 AM 2019
Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 17, 09:14 AM 2019
He's talking about VB and wobbly wheels. Odds dont come into it

Not just VB or wobbly wheels. Computer ballistics, dealers signature principles, or exploiting RNG algorithms. All come under categories of manipulating odds, rather than a staking system of manipulating bets.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 17, 10:40 AM 2019
In other words,  AP is anything that works. Not because it's my preference. Because it increases accuracy of predictions. But if it makes some people feel better, say AP is nonsense.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 17, 06:50 PM 2019
Quote from: 2BobBet on Feb 15, 10:12 AM 2019
Money

You need to understand the concept and need a tad bit of creativity.   Took me over 3 and a half years to see it 🤦‍â™,️ But it’s staring you in the face I can tell you that much.  Pri hinted it multiple times but lack of understanding; it gets ignored or we are blinded.  But she flat out tells you what to do 😅


Can you tell us what Thread and page/post number this info was in ?, looks interesting but need some more info about this concept

Dyksexlic => Reddwarf/rrbb=> Priyanka

These are my mentors and the correct order, but to learn better and understand it’s best you start backwards

Random thoughts by Priyanka
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15938.0

Then systems shared by Priyanka have somethings in common pay attention to that.....and read the post 6 months before the random thoughts thread.  Then the post after the thread where Priyanka creativity comes in.

Outside the box by RRBB
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=17115.0
Read all post by rrbb but mainly that thread

rrbb/reddwarf....Find his last few post.  I can’t remember if it’s in the old forum

At this point read my post.  You can pretty much see my journey from the beginning.  To where I started understanding cycles.  To where I thought I figured things out.  To where I started getting creative and trying new things.  Read my last few post because I share a lot of hints especially in this topic on page 1.  But you won’t understand without the knowledge you will learn from Priyanka and rrbb.

Dyksexlic is the originator but in his post it’s a little harder to pick up on the hints.  But either way read his post in the old forum.  But get into his post last; once you have a better understanding.

Don’t confuse what you are being taught with the actual method.  The teaching is to get you to see things a little different.  Try to ask yourself questions to make sure you understand what you are looking at and what’s happening.

Took me over 3.5 years, and I still don’t believe I have the exact method dyksexlic has but I have something that works for me.  I win every cycle on a positive +1.  Doesn’t matter which combination of numbers comes out. 
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 17, 06:51 PM 2019
Quote from: Irish88 on Feb 15, 10:40 AM 2019
2bob,

These 2 threads might help. I have tried to figure it out but I can't seem to grasp it. Something about a double street or two but when to play them. For the record I do believe MoneyT has a winning method.

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=19562.0

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=19684.msg186007#msg186007

If anyone figures it let me know!

Start with what I just posted now
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 17, 07:10 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 16, 04:16 PM 2019
There's no limit on random numbers because one of the definitions of random numbers is that previous results have no influence on previous ones. Posting a win over 21 spins is meaningless. Posting a win over 1021 spins is meaningless.

Define a strategy over millions and billions of spins with relation to the RNG algorithm being used and you may have a case. Because RNG generators are not truly random like an unbiased physical wheel can be. But they are certainly random over billions and trillions (and many powers more) spins depending on methods. Trying to predict over 15 or 21 spins is laughable.

Yes your right... sorry I’m playing a game on paper and using roulette as my source of picking my random number.  I’m not playing based on what happens on the roulette game. I’m playing based on what happens on my paper.  So I guess it’s different idk.  Don’t care!!!

You can call that anything you like.

Now I played 21 spins because I handwrite spins and make my calculations.  So it takes me longer to play live.   

But I’ve tested for a long time.  Not hours, not days,not months.... been years!!!!!

If you understood the difference of what I’m doing to all the crap in this forum.  You would understand how logical it is and you would know that it doesn’t need 1000 of spins to test.  I just tested for a long time to build confidence after failing for so long.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 17, 07:28 PM 2019
So let’s take my 15 spin example to share more info.

Once the repeat happens...

1.That’s the end of the game
2. That’s the end of the progression if one was used.

By this point you made your profit.  You can’t carry your balance over to the next game.  The next game the repeat may take longer and if you have a balance you will have a hard time getting back to even money.

So when the cycle ends!  You finished and start over.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 17, 08:34 PM 2019
Using my paper experiment.  Where you write down the outcomes.  Yes all numbers are possible!  All the time!!!

-But what do we know?... that because the game is random we can’t get all the numbers to come out every time without getting a repeated number.

-So every number is possible but the reality of it...it’s not going to happen EVERYTIME.    It doesn’t matter it if happens 1 time out of 100.  If done correctly you lose but the cycle isn’t over!  So why are you worried?

-The reason is because as more numbers come out it shifts from numbers that came out and numbers that haven’t came out.  So the side with with numbers that hit increases while the side that hasn’t decreases

-This can be easily seen with the cycles spreadsheet that was posted in the random topic thread.   
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 18, 06:09 AM 2019
Your paper decides the winning number. It is the link to the odds. Its a paper game. So it doesnt matter what happens on the wheel.

Right?

Am i being a naysayer, or just not an idiot?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 18, 06:56 AM 2019
There is no cycle or cycles. Every spin is a new independent spin on a fair random wheel.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 11:14 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 18, 06:09 AM 2019
Your paper decides the winning number. It is the link to the odds. Its a paper game. So it doesnt matter what happens on the wheel.

Right?

Am i being a naysayer, or just not an idiot?

Yes the winning number is found on the paper.

Yes when I bet on the table I’m paid on the odds of the game

Yes when I play I lose and win

Cycle ends=+1 minimum
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 11:15 AM 2019
I’m a start quoting dyksexlic, he explains it well.

Quote from: Dyksexlic! on Dec 27, 07:07 AM 2010
The ONLY difference between a Winning System and the Holy Grail is this:

Any roulette system can win (no matter how ludicrous the bet selection method),

However, ONLY the Holy Grail is MATHEMATICALLY guaranteed to win each session.

Consider it an insurance policy.

My roulette sessions are just like riding a rollercoaster,

Yes, there are twists, turns and scary moments,

But, I NEVER fall off the rails,

And, I ALWAYS get back to where I started from,

Walking away with my heart pounding and a BIG grin on my face..

;D

Mathematically!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 11:33 AM 2019
Now because you studied the game for years and you tried many things. 

I understand and I get you don’t believe something works.  I was the same way!

-If you play randomly you will lose because we can’t predict.  It’s impossible to predict the winning number

I agree with you guys on so many levels. 

-You can’t beat the odds of the game! That’s impossible
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 11:40 AM 2019
Are these situations different?

1.If the ball is spun by the dealer and lands on a random number.... 5
Then he spends again and it lands on 22

2. If I write down the numbers 0-36 on a piece of paper and put it in a hat.  If I pull a paper out and the number is...5

Then I put the paper back in the hat and pick out another paper and it’s 22

Both situations are random.

Are they different?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: nichedelico on Feb 18, 12:08 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 11:40 AM 2019
Are these situations different?

1.If the ball is spun by the dealer and lands on a random number.... 5
Then he spends again and it lands on 22

2. If I write down the numbers 0-36 on a piece of paper and put it in a hat.  If I pull a paper out and the number is...5

Then I put the paper back in the hat and pick out another paper and it’s 22

Both situations are random.

Are they different?

I think yes?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 12:54 PM 2019
I forgot to add one more 🤦‍â™,️

3. If go to random.org and use their number generator.. first I get 5 then I get 22

Would this be any different from the previous 2 random events?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 18, 01:36 PM 2019
The methods for obtaining numbers are different, but there is a coincidence.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 18, 04:02 PM 2019
For the numbers spun by the dealer, there maybe a connection between 5 and 22 if he was throwing similar rotor speeds and similar balls and perhaps a dominant drop zone. Also, as in some places, the rotor direction was the same. Usually they alternate cw and acw rotors. But assuming he was throwing different rotor speeds and long but slightly different balls then the dealer version is going to be just as random.

There are different kinds of random though. Some ways of RNG are truly random such as sampling cosmic microwave background radiation at a particular instant. As opposed to a computational method using modulo arithmetic. Such sequences while  passing the tests for random numbers over billions of spins may repeat after trillions more, depending on the sophistication of the algorithm. They generally have to be seeded to start at a random point.

Taking balls out of a well mixed bag like how they do the lottery seems a good method. You can imagine a ball coming out 10 or 50 times in row, whereas it's doubtful if all random number generators would be capable of such a result.  They do get better as time and computatonal power increases though.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 19, 03:10 AM 2019
Modern physics describes 4 forces.
These 4 forces can be used to get random (independent and identically distributed (IID)) variables:

1) mechanics â€" roulette, lotto, etc
2) electrodynamic interaction (noise, z-diods,…)
3) weak interaction - Beta decay (radioactive decay)
4) strong interaction â€" Alpha decay (radioactive decay)

It does not matter where your numbers come from as long as they are independent and identically distributed.
Thus provided there is no difference in the random events.

This leaves the question: what has always to happen ?  mathematically
I know the answer, but here is MoneyT’s game.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:38 AM 2019
Everyone should take some time and read the article posted on the first post here....

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=25042.new#new

Actual mathematical proof about random numbers
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:52 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 11:40 AM 2019
Are these situations different?

1.If the ball is spun by the dealer and lands on a random number.... 5
Then he spends again and it lands on 22

2. If I write down the numbers 0-36 on a piece of paper and put it in a hat.  If I pull a paper out and the number is...5

Then I put the paper back in the hat and pick out another paper and it’s 22

Both situations are random.

Are they different?

Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 18, 12:54 PM 2019
I forgot to add one more 🤦‍â™,️

3. If go to random.org and use their number generator.. first I get 5 then I get 22

Would this be any different from the previous 2 random events?


The methods are different at generating a random number but all are just as random can be!

You can play using double streets by taking result from the wheel then take the next outcome from the piece of paper in the hat, then take the next out come from random.org

You will have 3 independent events.... then you can continue in the same order to choose which double street you think will win... play the same way in which you chose the results

Event 1(roulette wheel), event 2(paper in hat), event 3(random.org)

And you can still play this as if you were playing a regular game of roulette.  And you can still win 😏

If you read the article in the topic link I recommended, you will understand more of how to win.  But first understand non random events
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Maui13 on Feb 21, 03:04 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:51 AM 2019
I invite anyone to fill my 15 spins with dozens and prove me wrong.  Find a way for no dozen to repeat in the same row after all 15 spins.  Use actual spins

1...4...7...10...13

2...5...8...11....14

3...6...9....12...15

There are 27 combinations of 3 digits... you can even add the 0/00.

Use actual spins and prove me wrong

Could be rng, real table, or from random.org

Doesn’t matter!!!!

Money - I actually hoped that I would be wrong. Damn I had some good runs and yesterday, your worst nightmare...

I give you your numbers ...

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/21/source.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OqPtt)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 21, 09:54 AM 2019
Line -1: 32211. Line -2: 32021. Definitely there are repetitions
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 10:24 AM 2019
Quote from: Maui13 on Feb 21, 03:04 AM 2019
Money - I actually hoped that I would be wrong. Damn I had some good runs and yesterday, your worst nightmare...

I give you your numbers ...

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/21/source.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OqPtt)
Quote from: Person S on Feb 21, 09:54 AM 2019
Line -1: 32211. Line -2: 32021. Definitely there are repetitions

Yes on line 1 the repeat happened on spin 7 with dozen 2

322... here

On Line 2 the repeat happened at spin 11

3202...here

On line 3 the repeat happened at spin 12

1232...here

Now, I never said to play this exact way!  I used the example to make a point and show you the principle.  I used dozens because it’s easier and simple to show you.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Maui13 on Feb 21, 12:16 PM 2019
Apologies then if I misunderstood.

Will test some more, regardless if you said to play this way or not.



Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Feb 21, 12:17 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 10:24 AM 2019

On line 3 the repeat happened at spin 12

1232...here


In this example, we know the repeat will come at spin 12 (it has to, unless a zero comes)

But how is this useful? You would need to cover all 3 dozens.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 21, 01:44 PM 2019
As I understand it, non-random events are cycles. Cycles have different lengths. Length is related to statistics. Is this the right way?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Frodo on Feb 21, 01:57 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:52 AM 2019

If you read the article in the topic link I recommended, you will understand more of how to win.  But first understand non random events

non random events
1 2 3 = NO BET

how does that improve your prediction?

if you would have 1 2 (bet on 1 and 2 hoping for a repeat) and shows 3, you are -2

sorry i don`t follow.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:16 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Feb 21, 12:17 PM 2019
In this example, we know the repeat will come at spin 12 (it has to, unless a zero comes)

But how is this useful? You would need to cover all 3 dozens.

Exactly did you catch what you just said.

“It has to”
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:18 PM 2019
Quote from: Person S on Feb 21, 01:44 PM 2019
As I understand it, non-random events are cycles. Cycles have different lengths. Length is related to statistics. Is this the right way?

I think your getting a better understanding...

You should continue thinking some more and read my most recent post again.

Keep your thoughts private  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:32 PM 2019
Quote from: Frodo on Feb 21, 01:57 PM 2019
non random events
1 2 3 = NO BET

how does that improve your prediction?

if you would have 1 2 (bet on 1 and 2 hoping for a repeat) and shows 3, you are -2

sorry i don`t follow.

Yes if that situation happens then it’s no bet!

Now take 36 numbers... 

How many times can you get to 36 and have no bet?

I think the maximum is 31 numbers without a repeat

For 1000 spins of dozens you have 20% that you will get this situation where all 3 show up

For 1000 spins of double streets you have 2% that all six will show up
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:38 PM 2019
My last few post contain very important information to help you beat this game or any game based on random numbers.  I have said enough in a open forum.  I suggest everyone actually searching continue in private.  What I shared with what Priyanka shared to make things clear is enough.

Just think of why something should work and why, what you’re doing shouldn’t work.

Don’t use to many computer data to look.  Go over it slowly and think of what is happening
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:45 PM 2019
Here are my final hints and it will help you not go around in circles like I did for so long might save you 1 or 2 years.  I’m done with this topic!  If you find the secret   :-X

-you CANT bet on all numbers until a repeat

-you CANT bet on all numbers that haven’t showed up until the repeat

-numbers win/numbers lose.... who cares?

Quote from Dyksexlic-

“The 'secret' is that ALL gambling systems produce winning spins (EVENTually),

Just as ALL gambling systems produce losing spins (EVENTually)”
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 21, 02:47 PM 2019
MONEYT101, thanks for the valuable posts they inspire to move on!!!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:52 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:32 PM 2019
Yes if that situation happens then it’s no bet!

Now take 36 numbers... 

How many times can you get to 36 and have no bet?

I think the maximum is 31 numbers without a repeat

For 1000 spins of dozens you have 20% that you will get this situation where all 3 show up

For 1000 spins of double streets you have 2% that all six will show up

Sorry I said it wrong... 20% of the 1000 spins will have all 3 show up

2% of the 1000 spins for double street will have all 6 show up
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:53 PM 2019
Quote from: Person S on Feb 21, 02:47 PM 2019
MONEYT101, thanks for the valuable posts they inspire to move on!!!

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Feb 21, 04:22 PM 2019
MoneyT101 - Using dozens as an example, would you be able to win against the following sequence?

1|2|3|0|1
2|3|1|2|0
3|1|2|3|0

Each line has a repeat within the 15 spins as you stated, does this session end at +1?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 21, 04:45 PM 2019
With the permission of Moneyt, Red, look at this topic not as a ready-made system, but as an idea that requires cutting. This is not true !!! This is an example of what is happening. Read messages thoughtfully !!! Slowly look through the topics that Money recommended, and be a little creative, and perhaps an understanding will arise in your head and a thought will flare up, as it was with me. Of course, I’m not completely sure if I understood everything that’s written here, it needs some work and a quality check. But while the results are fine with me, good luck!  Sorry for my english :question:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 21, 05:03 PM 2019
Here, if you have not noticed the answer to your question


non random events
1 2 3 = NO BET

how does that improve your prediction?

if you would have 1 2 (bet on 1 and 2 hoping for a repeat) and shows 3, you are -2

sorry i don`t follow.

Yes if that situation happens then it’s no bet!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Feb 21, 05:29 PM 2019
No bet from spin 10 onwards is fine except for the fact that you would have already lost on spins 4-9 where you were betting. How then does this scenario end in +1?

This can be extended out to double streets, streets, splits etc... still the same situation can occur

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: poobear on Feb 21, 07:03 PM 2019
This is not a method, he's just showing an example of a limit to randomness.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 21, 07:07 PM 2019
I cant understand how some people still think there are limits to random.

Is it really that hard to understand? 
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 08:26 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Feb 21, 04:22 PM 2019
MoneyT101 - Using dozens as an example, would you be able to win against the following sequence?

1|2|3|0|1
2|3|1|2|0
3|1|2|3|0

Each line has a repeat within the 15 spins as you stated, does this session end at +1?

I would have made 2.25 units before the first 0
I would have one 26.50 units total by the last spin with the zeros
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 08:46 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Feb 21, 05:29 PM 2019
No bet from spin 10 onwards is fine except for the fact that you would have already lost on spins 4-9 where you were betting. How then does this scenario end in +1?

This can be extended out to double streets, streets, splits etc... still the same situation can occur

Read my last post I was already +1 before spin 10
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 08:51 PM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 21, 07:07 PM 2019
I cant understand how some people still think there are limits to random.

Is it really that hard to understand? 

I posted a link to another thread here with actual expert opinion on the limitation of random. 

Real math explanation not your opinions.

Here it is again since you obviously missed it.

Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 02:38 AM 2019
Everyone should take some time and read the article posted on the first post here....

link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=25042.new#new

Actual mathematical proof about random numbers
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 21, 09:26 PM 2019
Money, since you clearly understand it, can you please highlight the parts where they explain the limits of random?

I'm guessing your idea of "limits" is a sample of X amount of spins and results of a test. Or maybe a bell curve. Please, show me the expert analysis and "real math" you're referring to.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: ati on Feb 22, 02:58 AM 2019
You need to look at it with different eyes. There are many limits. The numbers on the roulette wheel are limited. The possible variation of numbers and playing positions are limited.
Cycles are the limits. A repeat will always happen on any position you play.

Look at dozen cycles for example. The length is limited to 3.

(link:s://i.imgur.com/x5C850V.jpg)

There are also statistics that are associated with cycle lengths, and they remain constant in a true random game. This means that past spins do matter, and even though individual numbers are independent and have a chance of 1/3, set of numbers are not. There is always statistical dependency.
Of course all this is not enough to win, other important things need to be considered and I'm still searching for those.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Roulettebeater on Feb 22, 03:44 AM 2019
Quote from: ati on Feb 22, 02:58 AM 2019
You need to look at it with different eyes. There are many limits. The numbers on the roulette wheel are limited. The possible variation of numbers and playing positions are limited.
Cycles are the limits. A repeat will always happen on any position you play.

Look at dozen cycles for example. The length is limited to 3.

(link:s://i.imgur.com/x5C850V.jpg)

There are also statistics that are associated with cycle lengths, and they remain constant in a true random game. This means that past spins do matter, and even though individual numbers are independent and have a chance of 1/3, set of numbers are not. There is always statistical dependency.
Of course all this is not enough to win, other important things need to be considered and I'm still searching for those.

Ati

Your post is really senseless !
What you describing is not something new, you can’t beat roulette based on this theory !

Random has no limits
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 22, 06:13 AM 2019
Quote from: ati on Feb 22, 02:58 AM 2019The possible variation of numbers and playing positions are limited.

Yes i get that part.

Quote from: ati on Feb 22, 02:58 AM 2019Cycles are the limits.

Exactly what's a cycle? Please explain the example you gave. What's a dozens cycle?

The statistics you described are like saying on a coin flip, you'll be right 50% of the time.

Im trying to understand what some of you think.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 22, 07:55 AM 2019
The article quoted from Stanford is philosophy not maths. There tend to be one or two fundamental truths but it is submerged in contorted language. It's the kind of interwoven riddle speech that Priyanka espoused.

Firstly, there's no such thing as cycles in random numbers. Cycles and random are the very antithesis. If you identify consistent cycles or patterns, it is either transient random, or external bias.

You can't beat transient random. The pattern you apply to beat it today and tomorrow will fail next week or the next day. You'll end up with random bets over a period and be eaten by the house edge.

So you are left with external bias. Do what you must to beat that. Take data, look at diamond plots, look at scatter plots, look at dealer patterns, time rotor speeds. There are real ways to apply those things which are hard work, but they do work long term. Not like fairy tails and riddles.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Feb 22, 08:44 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 08:46 PM 2019
Read my last post I was already +1 before spin 10

There were no repeats before spin 10, so you're not betting for the repeat?

1|2|3|0|1
2|3|1|2|0
3|1|2|3|0

Looking at it as an event rather than dozens, there are only two options:


The matrix would then look like this:

1|N|N|N|R
2|N|N|R|N
3|N|N|R|N

So you're betting for the 'N's but an 'R' ends the cycle?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 22, 09:04 AM 2019
I’m not sure if I’m right, but if we look at it from a different angle, then.

(R?) - Is it possible to bet on another position here?


1 | R(?)  | R | N | R
2 | N     | N | R | N
3 | N     | N | R | N
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 12:25 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Feb 22, 08:44 AM 2019
There were no repeats before spin 10, so you're not betting for the repeat?

1|2|3|0|1
2|3|1|2|0
3|1|2|3|0

Looking at it as an event rather than dozens, there are only two options:


  • No repeat (N)
  • Repeat (R)

The matrix would then look like this:

1|N|N|N|R
2|N|N|R|N
3|N|N|R|N

So you're betting for the 'N's but an 'R' ends the cycle?

I made 3 bets before the 0

R ends and starts but the bet doesn’t have to be on R
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 12:31 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 22, 07:55 AM 2019
The article quoted from Stanford is philosophy not maths. There tend to be one or two fundamental truths but it is submerged in contorted language. It's the kind of interwoven riddle speech that Priyanka espoused.

Firstly, there's no such thing as cycles in random numbers. Cycles and random are the very antithesis. If you identify consistent cycles or patterns, it is either transient random, or external bias.

You can't beat transient random. The pattern you apply to beat it today and tomorrow will fail next week or the next day. You'll end up with random bets over a period and be eaten by the house edge.

So you are left with external bias. Do what you must to beat that. Take data, look at diamond plots, look at scatter plots, look at dealer patterns, time rotor speeds. There are real ways to apply those things which are hard work, but they do work long term. Not like fairy tails and riddles.

Cycles are a way to organize random... that’s one of the things the article speaks about.

It also talks about how after so many numbers it has no choice but to repeat.

If something runs out of options and has to repeat the it has a limit!!!

For instance my examples I been sharing is about dozens

After dozen 1,2,3... you can’t have a dozen 4 or 5.

Yea it sounds stupid but that’s just it.  The answer is simple once you understand.

Cycles are just a way to organize the information.  By using the math within a cycle you know what happens less and what happens more. 

Now within this world of this math there are other games you can play which will give you an edge
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 12:39 PM 2019
I’m done with this topic!

I’ve said enough info already, more then I should have atleast.

You can believe me or not.  Doesn’t affect me.  Those that seen my progress from my first post can see I’m not bullshi**ing took time and a lot of work to get here. 

It all started with the principle!

✌️
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 22, 01:21 PM 2019
Of course numbers repeat. Of course patterns repeat. But they don't repeat at regular or any determined intervals. Therefore this information is useless fior betting purposes.

Take the simplest of options. Two numbers.

1122122122211121...?

What next. We've already seen all the groups of two and three numbers in sequence. There must be a repeat now. But this doesn't mean there is a limit to random. The odds on 1 appearing are 50/50, the same for 2.

All the riddles and philosophy in the world have got you precisely nowhere in practical betting terms.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 22, 02:27 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 12:31 PM 2019
It also talks about how after so many numbers it has no choice but to repeat.

Flip a coin until you have 1 head and 1 tail. The limit is reached. The next toss must be a repeat....

Can you see how silly that is? You havent changed anything.

What youre doing is no different. Its just a more complicated and fancier version, so you arent recognizing it as the same thing.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 02:37 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 22, 01:21 PM 2019
1122122122211121...?

To win on EC straight up is possible but to takes to long.  So it’s better to make pairs to increase the payout and/or use a dependent similar result like a double street

But since you used EC let’s just do EC.  Make pairs first......I would have played in the end pair 21 in your result. I only had 2 bets and I won so I’m at +3 with your sequence!

Next Two spins I have no bet....  Now based on that result I either have a bet or I don’t.

Very simple!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: psimoes on Feb 22, 04:16 PM 2019
:xd: :xd: :xd:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 22, 04:35 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 02:37 PM 2019
To win on EC straight up is possible but to takes to long.  So it’s better to make pairs to increase the payout and/or use a dependent similar result like a double street

But since you used EC let’s just do EC.  Make pairs first......I would have played in the end pair 21 in your result. I only had 2 bets and I won so I’m at +3 with your sequence!

Next Two spins I have no bet....  Now based on that result I either have a bet or I don’t.

Very simple!

Sorry to say the outcome was in fact 12.  Therefore you lost.

The actual outcome 12 was exactly the same odds (25%) as your prediction 21.

Neither outcome can be given a greater weight after the sequence I gave. That it is the very definition of random.

If you think your prediction has better odds than 25% after the sequence I gave, you are deluding yourself with a fallacy varient or playing something other than random numbers.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 04:56 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 22, 04:35 PM 2019
Sorry to say the outcome was in fact 12.  Therefore you lost.

The actual outcome 12 was exactly the same odds (25%) as your prediction 21.

Neither outcome can be given a greater weight after the sequence I gave. That it is the very definition of random.

If you think your prediction has better odds than 25% after the sequence I gave, you are deluding yourself with a fallacy varient or playing something other than random numbers.

I said I would have won the 21 pair in your sequence.   It’s the last two numbers

Then I had no bet next two spins.  So your 12 I wouldn’t have played, I made it clear I was waiting for next result.  Because it was a no bet!

That’s why you guys don’t understand anything.  You have trouble reading.

Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 02:37 PM 2019
To win on EC straight up is possible but to takes to long.  So it’s better to make pairs to increase the payout and/or use a dependent similar result like a double street

But since you used EC let’s just do EC.  Make pairs first......I would have played in the end pair 21 in your result. I only had 2 bets and I won so I’m at +3 with your sequence!  

see I won on your seequebce the last Two which were 21

Next Two spins I have no bet....  Now based on that result I either have a bet or I don’t.

I also made it clear next two spins is no bet! Based on this information I would make my next bet!

Very simple!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 05:15 PM 2019
Yes I will win at better odds then your 25% because the odds of getting all 4 outcomes happens 10% of the time in 1000 spins

435 cycles!! And this happened 39
440 cycles!! And this happens 43
444 cycles!!! And this happened 46

So you do the math!!! I will win plenty of times and when I lose, what I lose 1 unit

You math guys try to be so smart but you can’t figure it out with all your knowledge.

All you do is try to say it don’t work and blah blah blah.

I’m not playing your regular game! 
I’m not playing your random game!
I’m not even playing your repeat....

So tell me how do you know what I’m doing and how are you so sure I will lose?

Cause you can’t think of something it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 22, 05:25 PM 2019
Nobody cares about what results have ocuured, Im asking about  the ? My sequence was random

11221221222111  21

You say you would have bet  21 on the last two.

But after

11221221222111, the next two can be 12 just the same odds (25%)

If you say you would bet 21 after 11221221222111,  and your selection of 21 is guaranteed, or even just more likely,  you are simply following a fallacy varient.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 06:47 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 22, 05:25 PM 2019
Nobody cares about what results have ocuured, Im asking about  the ? My sequence was random

11221221222111  21

You say you would have bet  21 on the last two.

But after

11221221222111, the next two can be 12 just the same odds (25%)

If you say you would bet 21 after 11221221222111,  and your selection of 21 is guaranteed, or even just more likely,  you are simply following a fallacy varient.

No it’s not guaranteed!

Anything could have happened.  But the result will show in the game of what should be played next based on the math.

Let’s use the math of cycles I posted the image.

The math says all 4 outcomes will show up 39 times out of 435

Run 1000 spins and look at the result.  You will have similar result. Same thing over and over.  8-12% you get all 4 outcomes

Run it a billion times if you have to same thing happens

Nothing is guaranteed but if I’m playing something that happens 75% vs 25% and find a way to avoid some of the losses and catch some wins of the 25%

I beat the game.

I’m playing a math game.  Math can’t be wrong.  You just don’t see what math I’m playing so you can’t understand.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: The General on Feb 22, 07:24 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 06:47 PM 2019I’m playing a math game.  Math can’t be wrong.  You just don’t see what math I’m playing so you can’t understand.

No, you just really suck at math.  You're trapped in the box that is the gambler's fallacy.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Madi on Feb 22, 07:28 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 06:47 PM 2019


I’m playing a math game.  Math can’t be wrong.  You just don’t see what math I’m playing so you can’t understand.

Why is your math so invisible?

Can any member help me to understand his concept.  Just the concept. Plz not in japanise language.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Mako on Feb 22, 07:29 PM 2019
Quote from: The General on Feb 22, 07:24 PM 2019
No, you just really suck at math.  You're trapped in the box that is the gambler's fallacy.

It's a nice box though.  Lot of people around, good conversation. 

Pricey to enter, but everything in life has a cost...
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 07:41 PM 2019
Quote from: The General on Feb 22, 07:24 PM 2019
No, you just really suck at math.  You're trapped in the box that is the gambler's fallacy.

:twisted: yes your right

As long as it wins my math can suck, has no affect on wins or losses  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 22, 08:41 PM 2019
So Mr MoneyT101, we have the sequence

(11221221222111)..... 

You say you would have bet  21 after this.

You say 21 would have a probability greater than 25% ?

You say  you are playing "a math game" ?

Nope, that is a fallacy game. The fallacy of Priyanka. "Seek and you shall find, the answer is there all along. I've said enough already. You will find what you need to win."

It doesn't matter what riddles or philosophy or complications you want to dress up your fallacy with, the answer to this question is 25%. You can pick 21, 12, 11 ,or 22 ... as you like, the answer to any of those is still 25%. It would be 25% knowing the previous sequence, it would be 25% a priori. That is the real maths game.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: luckyfella on Feb 22, 10:09 PM 2019
 Played dz with 25% probability gamblers fallacy way. Ofc luck is always with me. :xd: :xd: :xd:

Or perhaps MoneyT is correct about greater than 25% ?   :question:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Mako on Feb 22, 10:19 PM 2019
Nice LF  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 01:33 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 22, 08:41 PM 2019
So Mr MoneyT101, we have the sequence

(11221221222111)..... 

You say you would have bet  21 after this.

You say 21 would have a probability greater than 25% ?

You say  you are playing "a math game" ?

Nope, that is a fallacy game. The fallacy of Priyanka. "Seek and you shall find, the answer is there all along. I've said enough already. You will find what you need to win."

It doesn't matter what riddles or philosophy or complications you want to dress up your fallacy with, the answer to this question is 25%. You can pick 21, 12, 11 ,or 22 ... as you like, the answer to any of those is still 25%. It would be 25% knowing the previous sequence, it would be 25% a priori. That is the real maths game.

Let’s forget there’s a bet or anything let’s take it to very basics...

Cycles are nothing special it’s just a way to organize the data your looking at.

So we organize the data.  Nothing weird just organizing data.  You change nothing and the wheel can do anything it wants!

The math of the game is still the same.   But because the data is organized.  You can see the data differently.

You can’t tell me cycles are a fallacy because it’s just organizing the data.  It’s the same game looked at differently.  I added nothing and I’ve changed nothing.

At the roulette table you can see what came out.  Well in cycles you can see when a repeat happened and you started over with the tracking. 

So no fallacy here!!! Nothing has been done or changed, just information has been organized.

Now when you take this data it shows repeats happen before all the outcomes can show up.  This is a fact!!!!  It’s all math.  Whether you believe it or not.  I’m not doing anything.  The data shows this!  So point out the fallacy. 

Yes every outcome is possible but it just don’t happen.

Still it’s the same data!!!   But because it’s tracked and organized it shows this more clearly. The math hasn’t changed, nothing has changed. Just the view of how you see the information.

Now that we got that covered.

If you flip a coin 100 times.  Heads can come out 100 times but will it happen?

It’s possibe but WILL IT HAPPEN?

You want to just scream fallacy all over the place. Your trying to make it sound like it’s made up.  But It’s facts!!

I know Everything is possible every spin but it doesn’t mean it will happen. 

I’m not doing anything to the data!  The data comes out that way.

Run it a trillion spins and the data comes out that way.  So point out the fallacy if it’s the math.

I showed you the math.  Cycles is  just data gathered and organized.  What fallacy?

The fallacy of me saying a repeat shows up before all outcomes.   Look at the math.  Nothing needs to be done.  I haven’t changed anything or added anything.

It’s a FACT!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 01:51 AM 2019
Now the problem is how to use the info!!

If you try to play it outright how it’s organized you will lose to the house edge because you haven’t changed anything.  It’s the same random info just organized.

Also when you play anything can still happen.  But just like the flip of a coin will avg out to it’s 50% or close to it.

Cycles avg out to their percentages.

So if take 100 spins you will get the same cycle percentages or close to.

This is still math and I changed nothing. 

So it’s not as random as you think!! If I get the same avg percentage

I can do 1000 spins and still the same avg percentage.  I can do 5000 spins and still the same avg percentage

It doesn’t change anything.  The game can still through anything but it will avg to the same percentage no matter what

How to take advantage is a whole different story....
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Taotie on Feb 23, 01:54 AM 2019
True story,
I once witnessed a croupier spin the wheel and flick the ball, and the ball ricocheted off the frets up into the air maybe 2 feet. The ball came down and ricocheted around the wheel again for a slit second then back up into the air though not so high this time, then fell down and came to rest in the spare ball housing at the top of the turret.

After witnessing a spin result like that you know random has no limits.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 02:00 AM 2019
Quote from: Taotie on Feb 23, 01:54 AM 2019
True story,
I once witnessed a croupier spin the wheel and flick the ball, and the ball ricocheted off the frets up into the air maybe 2 feet. The ball came down and ricocheted around the wheel again for a slit second then back up into the air though not so high this time, then fell down and came to rest in the spare ball housing at the top of the turret.

After witnessing a spin result like that you know random has no limits.

Hahahah cool story

How did you do the payout?  Did everyone lose? Refunded?Or did he spin the ball again?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 23, 04:51 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 02:00 AM 2019
Hahahah cool story

How did you do the payout?  Did everyone lose? Refunded?Or did he spin the ball again?

They always call "No spin" if that happens. All bets are off.

Sounds like you need some real casino time to kill them with your predictions
:smile:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 23, 06:29 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 01:33 AM 2019If you flip a coin 100 times.  Heads can come out 100 times but will it happen?

It’s possibe but WILL IT HAPPEN?

Your understanding is full of holes but i'll explain this point.

Will you ever see the sequence of spins 1,2,3,4,5? Probably never in your lifetime.

How about 32,14,8,27,2? Probably never in your lifetime either.

Did you know they will occur just as much as each other? Its just basic probability. Run large tests and see for yourself. It's old news.

The notion that something is possible but will never happen is bullshit, and missing the point.

Roulette is basically probability vs payout. With random accuracy, payout is always lower than probability. The only way to win consistently is increase accuracy of predictions.

It is all being spelled out by me and other experienced players. It will help anyone who cares to listen and understand.

Stop wasting your time on bullshit. Forget fallacies that are already tested since before your great great grandpa was born. Learn quicker. Life is short. Focus on methods than increase your odds.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: luckyfella on Feb 23, 06:44 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 23, 06:29 AM 2019
It is all being spelled out by me and other experienced players. It will help anyone who cares to listen and understand.

Stop wasting your time on bullshit. Forget fallacies that are already tested since before your great great grandpa was born. Learn quicker. Life is short. Focus on methods than increase your odds.
What people believe is there are people out there who found systems bet that give a positive edge.

You call that bs. Your choice.

Facts need irrefutable proof.
Bs need irrefutable proof.

AP or systems or voodoo or luck, casinos ban gamblers when they win consistently.
Makes no difference whatever the label you use.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 23, 07:27 AM 2019
Quote from: luckyfella on Feb 23, 06:44 AM 2019What people believe is there are people out there who found systems bet that give a positive edge.

You call that bs. Your choice.

No, you still don't get it. Where have i said all systems dont work?

Quote from: luckyfella on Feb 23, 06:44 AM 2019
Facts need irrefutable proof.

Yes they do. You arent understanding the irrefutable proof though.

Quote from: luckyfella on Feb 23, 06:44 AM 2019Bs need irrefutable proof.

Its not hard to prove bs is bs, when the proof is mathematics and shitloads of tests.

Quote from: luckyfella on Feb 23, 06:44 AM 2019AP or systems or voodoo or luck, casinos ban gamblers when they win consistently. Makes no difference whatever the label you use.

First focus on winning. Then learn to avoid detection. Its not dificult. As ive said before, almost every wheel can be beaten. The real problem is avoiding detection. But what i should say is its not really a problem, unless you require very large wins. Avoiding detection is not hard. But it limits your income.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: luckyfella on Feb 23, 07:55 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 23, 07:27 AM 2019
Avoiding detection is not hard. But it limits your income.
Casinos are not stupid. That's the stumbling block right there. Gambling is just a fun and entertainment activity.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 08:56 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 23, 04:51 AM 2019
They always call "No spin" if that happens. All bets are off.

Sounds like you need some real casino time to kill them with your predictions
:smile:

Why do I need a real casino?

I can play electronic wheel or rng

That’s how I know you don’t understand anything! 

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: luckyfella on Feb 23, 09:25 AM 2019
If the systems bet is based on math, makes no difference if the dealer randomly pulls numbers out of 3hats with 37numbers each in any order.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 09:46 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 23, 06:29 AM 2019
Your understanding is full of holes but i'll explain this point.

Will you ever see the sequence of spins 1,2,3,4,5? Probably never in your lifetime.

How about 32,14,8,27,2? Probably never in your lifetime either.

Did you know they will occur just as much as each other? Its just basic probability. Run large tests and see for yourself. It's old news.

The notion that something is possible but will never happen is bullshit, and missing the point.

Roulette is basically probability vs payout. With random accuracy, payout is always lower than probability. The only way to win consistently is increase accuracy of predictions.

It is all being spelled out by me and other experienced players. It will help anyone who cares to listen and understand.

Stop wasting your time on bullshit. Forget fallacies that are already tested since before your great great grandpa was born. Learn quicker. Life is short. Focus on methods than increase your odds.

It’s possible but it’s a rare event... if I see it happen in 100 spins, would it happen again while I’m still Playing?  The question you should be asking is how many times did I lose when it happened?  Your thinking I lost all 100 spins.  But if I avoided all the losses and didn’t bet; does that affect my accuracy?

Bets placed -bets won -odds of winning

If I win more then I should be winning at those odds... is this not an increase of accuracy?

Your confusing my point with actual game play!!!! You see you don’t understand what I am doing so you can’t speak or say if it works or not

Yes you have seen your share of bs systems.  But this is not a system

I showed you facts!  Now what to do with those facts is what matters. 

Redhot posted some spins and that was random and I beat it flatbet (1 loss, 2 wins all on 1 dozen)

Firefox posted his complicated spins and I beat it flatbet (2 wins on an ec and let it ride after the first win)

It’s not enough spins but pay attention to the details.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 09:48 AM 2019
Quote from: luckyfella on Feb 23, 09:25 AM 2019
If the systems bet is based on math, makes no difference if the dealer randomly pulls numbers out of 3hats with 37numbers each in any order.

Facts  8)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 10:03 AM 2019
You guys can win the debate, if what I’m saying is fallacy/false/true/etc

I gave you facts about cycles and you can’t sit there and tell me that’s not math. 

The difference is it doesn’t speak about payout or roulette! 

It’s facts on random numbers!

Universal and it’s still true.

-Roulette
-craps
-baccarat

-state lottery (much slower, results are daily instead of in seconds) but random numbers as well.

Now instead of wasting your time trying to prove me wrong.  How about you investigate for yourself.  I shared plenty of info for you to figure it out.

You’re on your own from this point  :-X
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: luckyfella on Feb 23, 10:10 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 10:03 AM 2019
You guys can win the debate, if what I’m saying is fallacy/false/true/etc

I gave you facts about cycles and you can’t sit there and tell me that’s not math. 

The difference is it doesn’t speak about payout or roulette! 

It’s facts on random numbers!

Universal and it’s still true.

-Roulette
-craps
-baccarat

-state lottery (much slower, results are daily instead of in seconds) but random numbers as well.

Now instead of wasting your time trying to prove me wrong.  How about you investigate for yourself.  I shared plenty of info for you to figure it out.

You’re on your own from this point  :-X
Thanks a lot for pointing it out Mel. We're definitely on it. :thumbsup:
Ps. Drop by for a chat sometime mate.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Feb 23, 10:27 AM 2019
Look, some of you guys are truly clueless. I don't care. I try to help sometimes but it isn't getting through.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 10:44 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Feb 23, 10:27 AM 2019
Look, some of you guys are truly clueless. I don't care. I try to help sometimes but it isn't getting through.

Yup your right i just wasted everyones time.  Had nothing better to do...

I made a mistake in my calculation

sorry to waste your time

dead end nothing to see here  :thumbsup:

delete this topic please

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 23, 04:13 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 08:56 AM 2019
Why do I need a real casino?

I can play electronic wheel or rng

That’s how I know you don’t understand anything! 

:thumbsup:

... and that's how I know you don't understand how to get a real advantage. RNG and electronic wheels  cannot be beaten (except in the case of a poor RNG algorithm and very advanced study of the number  generation and seeding procedures).

There's no indication you are at that level. You've just told me you would bet 21 with an enhanced chance,  after a very short sequence  of 1s and 2s I gave. That's nothing more than fallacy level.

Only physical wheels and real life dealers can be beaten with any consistency.

There is no limit to random, nor are there any short term sequence patterns in random. When you are proved wrong, you simply throw your toys out of the pram. You can do better!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 06:35 PM 2019
 :xd: :xd:

Yup your right! I’m putting all my toys away as we speak.

Everyone give up roulette isn’t beatable with math.  I’m just crazy!  Everyone I mentioned as a mentor was also crazy!

Sorry for all the confusion!

Start playing vb it’s the only way to win

Good luck!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 06:36 PM 2019
Close this topic!! No point in speaking anymore about it.

I was wrong!

If you can delete it! Thank you
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Madi on Feb 23, 06:54 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 06:36 PM 2019
Close this topic!! No point in speaking anymore about it.

I was wrong!

If you can delete it! Thank you

If you cant defend your writing , dont write. We have seen your “sorry saying” couple of times before. We are not interested in losers sorry.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 07:08 PM 2019
Quote from: Madi on Feb 23, 06:54 PM 2019
If you cant defend your writing , dont write. We have seen your “sorry saying” couple of times before. We are not interested in losers sorry.

I’ve made my peace!  People like you deserve to continue being losers  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Feb 23, 07:59 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 21, 08:26 PM 2019
I would have made 2.25 units before the first 0

Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 09:46 AM 2019
Redhot posted some spins and that was random and I beat it flatbet (1 loss, 2 wins all on 1 dozen)

Were you betting 0.75 units on the dozen?

Or was it 1 unit with 0.25 to cover the zero?

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 08:14 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Feb 23, 07:59 PM 2019
Were you betting 0.75 units on the dozen?

Or was it 1 unit with 0.25 to cover the zero?
Check your pm
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: The General on Feb 23, 09:41 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Feb 23, 07:59 PM 2019
Were you betting 0.75 units on the dozen?

Or was it 1 unit with 0.25 to cover the zero?

(link:s://:.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif)

Hedging in roulette serves no purpose, yet the first bet new players make is to place one chip on each zero, and then a chip between the zero and double zero. 
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Madi on Feb 23, 11:07 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 07:08 PM 2019
I’ve made my peace!  People like you deserve to continue being losers  :thumbsup:

Loser only look for peace. People like you r shameless . Say sorry and surrender . Again appear with the junk
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Madi on Feb 23, 11:11 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 23, 10:44 AM 2019
Yup your right i just wasted everyones time.  Had nothing better to do...

I made a mistake in my calculation

sorry to waste your time

dead end nothing to see here  :thumbsup:

delete this topic please

As u r accepting that , you cant calculate properly and wasting people time , i would say dont come up again with your junk.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 24, 08:30 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 22, 07:55 AM 2019there's no such thing as cycles in random numbers

First you have to define what you mean by the word "cycle in random numbers".
Then you can decide if such an object exists.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 24, 08:54 AM 2019
Quote from: Herby on Feb 24, 08:30 AM 2019
First you have to define what you mean by the word "cycle in random numbers".
Then you can decide if such an object exists.

No such thing as cycles... don’t waste your time
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 24, 09:01 AM 2019
@Herby Good point. Well in this case, I would take it to mean regular, repeatable, predictable patterns of results over tens, thousands, or millions (or infinite numbers of spins in the case of true random numbers).

Such patterns, if identified, being an indicator of  numbers about to appear giving a greater probability of a result appearing than may be expected a priori or by chance alone, and thus being an aid to betting.

In the case of true random numbers, such cycles do not exist. That's one of the definitions of true random.

In the case of pseudo-random numbers such as a RNG algorithm from modulo arithmetic, such cycles may exist over a huge (but not infinite) number of spins. Whether such a cycle would be exploitable I don't know. Some claim to have done it, but I don't know enough about the subject to know how true that claim is.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Herby on Feb 24, 11:03 AM 2019
@Firefox,
if you make a definition such that no object can exist so it doesn't help.
You have a proof for your self-fulfilling prophecy. You can write this many 1000 times into a forum and think you understood some math.  >:D

I see MoneyT: "No such thing as cycles... don’t waste your time"
we better follow him.  O0
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Feb 24, 11:11 AM 2019
Herby, if predictable cycles exist, then the definition of random numbers is not satisfied. I think you're arguing against yourself there!

And, if you think they do, and the numbers are still random, then you are welcome to find them, and go out there to make your fortune. Please give us a slice of the action  :twisted:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: KoolKat on Feb 25, 10:47 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 11, 02:51 AM 2019
I invite anyone to fill my 15 spins with dozens and prove me wrong.  Find a way for no dozen to repeat in the same row after all 15 spins.  Use actual spins

1...4...7...10...13

2...5...8...11....14

3...6...9....12...15

There are 27 combinations of 3 digits... you can even add the 0/00.

Use actual spins and prove me wrong

Could be rng, real table, or from random.org

Doesn’t matter!!!!

Hi MONEYT101

I have been reading your post with great interest. When testing (just seeing if you get a repeat of a dozen in 15 spins in the same line.) I came across this set of 15 spins. was all going good until I got the below Spins. Regards Koolkat

1   2   3   1   2   11   17   34   8   17
2   1   3   1   3   14   11   33   9   28
1   3   1   3   2   10   31   12   27   13
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Feb 25, 03:12 PM 2019
It is a pity that Steve and his followers did not understand the message. :yawn:

There is no Grail :P in this topic, there was a slight superiority over the game, which does not make you a millionaire overnight, but you do not feel bad, because the choice of the bet will be more conscious. I still hope that MoneyT will drop in here ... And if that happens, let me ask you a question.

Above was the mention of 3 independent sources of obtaining numbers. It somehow has to do with the dynamic flow from the rrbb. In its subject there are only 2 streams - direct and dynamic. It turns out that there is also a third?
Or are these three components we are looking at in a dynamic sequence and are looking for connections (EC, dozen, line, etc.)? Correct me if I am mistaken ...
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 25, 03:47 PM 2019
Quote from: KoolKat on Feb 25, 10:47 AM 2019
Hi MONEYT101

I have been reading your post with great interest. When testing (just seeing if you get a repeat of a dozen in 15 spins in the same line.) I came across this set of 15 spins. was all going good until I got the below Spins. Regards Koolkat

1   2   3   1   2   11   17   34   8   17
2   1   3   1   3   14   11   33   9   28
1   3   1   3   2   10   31   12   27   13

Based on my chart...131 on Spin 9 was the repeat
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Feb 25, 03:49 PM 2019
Quote from: Person S on Feb 25, 03:12 PM 2019
It is a pity that Steve and his followers did not understand the message. :yawn:

There is no Grail :P in this topic, there was a slight superiority over the game, which does not make you a millionaire overnight, but you do not feel bad, because the choice of the bet will be more conscious. I still hope that MoneyT will drop in here ... And if that happens, let me ask you a question.

Above was the mention of 3 independent sources of obtaining numbers. It somehow has to do with the dynamic flow from the rrbb. In its subject there are only 2 streams - direct and dynamic. It turns out that there is also a third?
Or are these three components we are looking at in a dynamic sequence and are looking for connections (EC, dozen, line, etc.)? Correct me if I am mistaken ...

Check your pm

Your chasing a dead end,  cycles don’t work it’s all fallacy
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Feb 25, 04:27 PM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 22, 12:31 PM 2019

Cycles are just a way to organize the information.  By using the math within a cycle you know what happens less and what happens more. 

Now within this world of this math there are other games you can play which will give you an edge

Would VDW be an example of a ‘game within this math’ ?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: KoolKat on Feb 26, 10:36 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Feb 25, 03:47 PM 2019
Based on my chart...131 on Spin 9 was the repeat

Gotcha thank you
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: mickavelli on Mar 09, 02:43 AM 2019
Come on guys we can work this out...........
Money says it all starts here with 15... He also talks alot about making pairs....
Well, out of 30 people at a party, there can be 435 handshakes... thoughts??
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Anastasius on Mar 09, 07:31 AM 2019
Yes random has limits. Iv done 500k worth of spin rx tests that have ended + .all played spins.  At least half the numbers played .with a mechanical bet the same way each time flat bet method.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Anastasius on Mar 09, 07:32 AM 2019
But downswingz that can go on 800 spins or more. So its not practical  to actually play
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: ati on Mar 09, 03:26 PM 2019
Quote from: mickavelli on Mar 09, 02:43 AM 2019
Come on guys we can work this out...........
Money says it all starts here with 15... He also talks alot about making pairs....
Well, out of 30 people at a party, there can be 435 handshakes... thoughts??
There are many things that need to be considered and there are many ways to look at the data to create games. When we talk about "limits of random" we mean that it cannot go on forever without a repeat. You can always tell what is the maximum number of spins for any playing position or any event before a repeat happens. So many info has been shared on the forum, it can literally take years to digest all of it and to really understand what they mean.
There are posts and threads that I have read tens of times over the years, and considered them to be useless because I didn't understand them, but everithing is part of the puzzle.

I'm currently working on combining outcomes. Look at the following example, where I combine high or low position of two consecutive spins. The second spin of the first event is the first spin of the second event.

There are four possible events

LL - 1
LH - 2
HL - 3
HH - 4


19  H
23  H  the previous and current positions combined is HH / event 4
13  L  HL / event 3
32  H LH / event 2

At this point I know that in the next spin there must be a repeat. I also know that event 2 cannot repeat and event 1 cannot happen, because the last number was H. So the next event will be either HH or HL. There are four possible events but only these two can happen.
The problem here is that the next number can be either a high number or a low number, so we don't know what to bet on.

I'm 100% sure that something like the above can be utilized somehow and can be combined with other things to create a winning method. I wish I knew how  :'(
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Madi on Mar 09, 04:00 PM 2019
Quote from: ati on Mar 09, 03:26 PM 2019
There are many things that need to be considered and there are many ways to look at the data to create games. When we talk about "limits of random" we mean that it cannot go on forever without a repeat. You can always tell what is the maximum number of spins for any playing position or any event before a repeat happens. So many info has been shared on the forum, it can literally take years to digest all of it and to really understand what they mean.
There are posts and threads that I have read tens of times over the years, and considered them to be useless because I didn't understand them, but everithing is part of the puzzle.

I'm currently working on combining outcomes. Look at the following example, where I combine high or low position of two consecutive spins. The second spin of the first event is the first spin of the second event.

There are four possible events

LL - 1
LH - 2
HL - 3
HH - 4


19  H
23  H  the previous and current positions combined is HH / event 4
13  L  HL / event 3
32  H LH / event 2

At this point I know that in the next spin there must be a repeat. I also know that event 2 cannot repeat and event 1 cannot happen, because the last number was H. So the next event will be either HH or HL. There are four possible events but only these two can happen.
The problem here is that the next number can be either a high number or a low number, so we don't know what to bet on.

I'm 100% sure that something like the above can be utilized somehow and can be combined with other things to create a winning method. I wish I knew how  :'(

No. From any angle its not helpful. Still the next spin matters. U can add some more combi, doesnt matter. Moreover 0 will add more pain. The closer u can go is by selecting a hot combi if u play enough spin not only 4 spin. Still a guess, but better guess , not 100%
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blueprint on Mar 09, 04:02 PM 2019
Quote from: ati on Mar 09, 03:26 PM 2019
There are many things that need to be considered and there are many ways to look at the data to create games. When we talk about "limits of random" we mean that it cannot go on forever without a repeat. You can always tell what is the maximum number of spins for any playing position or any event before a repeat happens. So many info has been shared on the forum, it can literally take years to digest all of it and to really understand what they mean.
There are posts and threads that I have read tens of times over the years, and considered them to be useless because I didn't understand them, but everithing is part of the puzzle.

I'm currently working on combining outcomes. Look at the following example, where I combine high or low position of two consecutive spins. The second spin of the first event is the first spin of the second event.

There are four possible events

LL - 1
LH - 2
HL - 3
HH - 4


19  H
23  H  the previous and current positions combined is HH / event 4
13  L  HL / event 3
32  H LH / event 2

At this point I know that in the next spin there must be a repeat. I also know that event 2 cannot repeat and event 1 cannot happen, because the last number was H. So the next event will be either HH or HL. There are four possible events but only these two can happen.
The problem here is that the next number can be either a high number or a low number, so we don't know what to bet on.

I'm 100% sure that something like the above can be utilized somehow and can be combined with other things to create a winning method. I wish I knew how  :'(

Bet L.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 09, 04:31 PM 2019
There is no point trying to predict what will occur, from what has recently occured in the last 1 to 20 spins. There is absolutely no mileage in this. It is a complete waste of time.

If you  want to go back 100's and 1000's of spins and look at  cause and effects or repeated data, then you may have a better case.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blueprint on Mar 09, 04:35 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Mar 09, 04:31 PM 2019
There is no point trying to predict what will occur, from what has recently occured in the last 1 to 20 spins. There is absolutely no mileage in this. It is a complete waste of time.

If you  want to go back 100's and 1000's of spins and look at  cause and effects or repeated data, then you may have a better case.

You’re right, predicting will never work.  So, what’s the alternative?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: precogmiles on Mar 09, 04:38 PM 2019
Quote from: Blueprint on Mar 09, 04:35 PM 2019
You’re right, predicting will never work.  So, what’s the alternative?

There isn't an alternative. That is why casinos have roulette. They force you to guess while they have an edge.

The only way to beat roulette is by precognition. Once you improve the accuracy without the need of a computer. The house no longer has an edge and you win.

Its very simple.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blueprint on Mar 09, 05:29 PM 2019
Quote from: precogmiles on Mar 09, 04:38 PM 2019
There isn't an alternative. That is why casinos have roulette. They force you to guess while they have an edge.

The only way to beat roulette is by precognition. Once you improve the accuracy without the need of a computer. The house no longer has an edge and you win.

Its very simple.

Yes there is.

And yes it is. 
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 09, 06:26 PM 2019
Alternatives; computer play, visual ballistics, biased number play based on 1000's of spins, or advanced dealers sig methods.

All of these do not work under all conditions. You have to work hard to find  to find the right spin speeds, wheels, and dealers. And you have to work hard on your method. 1000's of hours away from the wheel.

Then there are methods like precognition. You'd have ask Miles about that, but I believe it needs also needs 1000's of hours practice, doesn't work under all conditions, and not everyone can do it.

It's the same with visual ballistics. Not everyone can do it. It needs 1000's of hours of practice and conditions drift.

The Casino is a business. If they thought putting up the last 12 numbers on a marquee helped you predict the next number, they wouldn't do it.

They don't publish 1000's of numbers from particular wheels for our delight. What they do is rotate stators and rotors, rotate numbers rings, relevel wheels and rotate dealers, or call no more bets early. All to preserve the randomness of the game, which they know can't be beaten.

Where numbers are published from many past spins eg Weisbaden permamences, you can be sure that the wheels from which they came, have had rotors swapped, numbers rings rotated, and changed from table to table.

To understand how the game can be beaten, you can look at what the Casinos are doing to counter those methods, and what they are doing to preserve random.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blueprint on Mar 09, 08:26 PM 2019
You keep mentioning predicting so we are obviously having 2 very different conversations (and results).
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 09, 09:17 PM 2019
The topic is whether random has limits and the associated question, if it does, then can the past results be used to predict future ones via patterns etc.

This is the only practical topic worth discussing. If you don't predict in some way before the next number arrives, the roulette wheel becomes a curiosity not worthy of discussion.

My contention is that true random has no limits, and cannot be predicted by looking at immediately previous results.

Therefore other methods must be used.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: The General on Mar 09, 09:29 PM 2019
I agree with the wise words written by Firefox.

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: luckyfella on Mar 09, 10:37 PM 2019
Quote from: ati on Mar 09, 03:26 PM 2019
I'm 100% sure that something like the above can be utilized somehow and can be combined with other things to create a winning method. I wish I knew how  :'(
Keep MoneyT topic in mind ati. "Does random have limits ?"

Your purpose is not to predict the outcome of the next spin.

Your purpose is as per OP's topic. Only way that I mentioned umpteen times is it must have a basis - that's math as in a negative skewed graph.

Quote from: Firefox on Feb 24, 11:11 AM 2019
And, if you think they do, and the numbers are still random, then you are welcome to find them, and go out there to make your fortune. Please give us a slice of the action  :twisted:
Not happening  :twisted:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Robbert on Mar 10, 05:23 AM 2019
So, just bet the hit dozen with an progresiion?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: hanshuckebein on Mar 10, 05:40 AM 2019
I think that we won't be able to find out wether random has limits if we only look at "the last or the next spin " or at "thousands of spin" altogether.

in my opinion we should investigate certain spin ranges, circles, games within the game or whatever one might call it.

cheers
hans
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: redhot on Mar 10, 08:05 AM 2019
Here’s something interesting...

If we record the dozens we have a stream like:
1
3
3
1
2
2
3
2
2
Etc..

Now if we look at the cycle lengths we can create a second stream of “dozens”:

2
3
2
1
Etc...

In the first stream each dozen has an equal chance of appearing (33%)

But in the second stream the “dozens” have different probabilities! Based on the cycle length stats we know that “dozen 2” in the second stream has a 44% chance of appearing while “dozen 3” only has a 22% chance.

Both streams are just random values between 1-3, anything that applies to one applies to the other.

Can we use this imbalance in the second stream to give us an edge in the first stream?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: ati on Mar 10, 11:27 AM 2019
The problem with your example is that "dozen" 2 in the second stream is never a single dozen bet. You can play for cycle length 2 in the first stream, but you need to bet both the first and second dozens in the cycle, because you don't know which one will repeat.

After 2 unique dozens in the cycle, the chance for cycle length 2 is not 44% anymore but 66%, because at that point you cannot include the possibility of cycle length 1 happening anymore in the calculation. And the 66% for a two dozen bet is no different than betting two dozens randomly.

I'm sure there is some applicability though, but every time I break down imbalances like this, I come to the conclusion that it doesn't improve the chance to win. I think here is where some clever parallel dependent play need to be added.
I have experimented with all kind of parallel dependent streams but both streams seem to be losing simultaneously, so there is something I'm missing and I probably should look at the data differently.

I never run long simulations as I'm not an expert coder, I feel that if I find something that cannot lose, I should be able to see it in 50-100 spin manual tests.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 10, 11:28 AM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Mar 10, 08:05 AM 2019Can we use this imbalance in the second stream to give us an edge in the first stream?

No.

In either stream the chance that any particular dozen will appear on the next spin is 12/37.

The chance that zero will appear is 1/37.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: MoneyT101 on Mar 10, 02:59 PM 2019
Quote from: redhot on Mar 10, 08:05 AM 2019
Here’s something interesting...

If we record the dozens we have a stream like:
1
3
3
1
2
2
3
2
2
Etc..

Now if we look at the cycle lengths we can create a second stream of “dozens”:

2
3
2
1
Etc...

In the first stream each dozen has an equal chance of appearing (33%)

But in the second stream the “dozens” have different probabilities! Based on the cycle length stats we know that “dozen 2” in the second stream has a 44% chance of appearing while “dozen 3” only has a 22% chance.

Both streams are just random values between 1-3, anything that applies to one applies to the other.

Can we use this imbalance in the second stream to give us an edge in the first stream?

I already answered you about this question.

I remember dyksexlic telling you to work in private and see what you can come up with!

As far as this topic is concerned random doesn’t have limits!!!  Let this topic die already, thank you.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: sugtips on Mar 11, 06:57 AM 2019
Thanks God and Good Morning All.

Please ignore my this post if it seems very silly.

I am talking about "Randomness of Roulette Wheel at Local B&M Casinos" (at least here in Africa).

after 10 red in a row, I can bet of my life next 100 spins, all 100 numbers will not come reds.

I mean after continuous 10 reds, it will not continue for next 100 spins and we will not get 110 reds in a row.
Not in my entire life, not in your entire life, not in casinos history.

So means there's some limits in roulette wheel randomness.

(sorry for my bad English)

Now 2nd part, how to make money using this info.

Love and Light,
SugTips
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Roulettebeater on Mar 11, 07:46 AM 2019
Quote from: sugtips on Mar 11, 06:57 AM 2019Now 2nd part, how to make money using this info.

you can't!
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 11, 08:01 AM 2019
You can get 110 reds in a row.

It's just a very small chance.

Random has no limits.

There's no way to take advantage of the fact that it's a small chance.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Mar 11, 03:53 PM 2019
This is a very tough nut.

Do not think that my question is irreconcilable, but where can I read or learn about non-random math? :question:
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 11, 04:10 PM 2019
Quote from: Person S on Mar 11, 03:53 PM 2019
This is a very tough nut.

Do not think that my question is irreconcilable, but where can I read or learn about non-random math? :question:

link:s://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_inference

link:s://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness

link:s://:.quantamagazine.org/a-unified-theory-of-randomness-20160802/
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Mar 11, 04:32 PM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Mar 11, 04:10 PM 2019
link:s://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_inference

link:s://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness

link:s://:.quantamagazine.org/a-unified-theory-of-randomness-20160802/



Thank you, Firefox!
In fact, this is not exactly what I'm looking for.
I am interested in mathematics in cycles until I can find apples and pears and divide them into baskets O_o
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Mar 11, 05:09 PM 2019
ИнÑ,ересно...
Odds are never dynamic
In the beginning of a scenario, one might calculate the probability of a certain event. The fact is, as soon as one gains more information about that situation, they may need to re-calculate the probability.


When the host reveals one door that contains a goat, this is new information.
Say we are told that a woman has two children. If we ask whether either of them is a girl, and are told yes, what is the probability that the other child is also a girl? Considering this new child independently, one might expect the probability that the other child is female is ½ (50%). But by building a probability space (illustrating all possible outcomes), we see that the probability is actually only â..." (33%). This is because the possibility space illustrates 4 ways of having these two children: boy-boy, girl-boy, boy-girl, and girl-girl. But we were given more information. Once we are told that one of the children is a female, we use this new information to eliminate the boy-boy scenario. Thus the probability space reveals that there are still 3 ways to have two children where one is a female: boy-girl, girl-boy, girl-girl. Only â..." of these scenarios would have the other child also be a girl.[17] Using a probability space, we are less likely to miss one of the possible scenarios, or to neglect the importance of new information. For further information, see Boy or girl paradox.

This technique provides insights in other situations such as the Monty Hall problem, a game show scenario in which a car is hidden behind one of three doors, and two goats are hidden as booby prizes behind the others. Once the contestant has chosen a door, the host opens one of the remaining doors to reveal a goat, eliminating that door as an option. With only two doors left (one with the car, the other with another goat), the player must decide to either keep their decision, or switch and select the other door. Intuitively, one might think the player is choosing between two doors with equal probability, and that the opportunity to choose another door makes no difference. But probability spaces reveal that the contestant has received new information, and can increase their chances of winning by changing to the other door.[17]
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Mar 12, 03:05 AM 2019
Sorry, that's a load of crap.

So in 2 spins with no zero wheel, we can have:

BB
RR
RB
BR

Then if we have B, the possible overall outcomes are BB and BR. That's a 50/50 chance. Nothing changed.

Random is as limited as numbers. It is stupidity to say random has limits in any context that can change odds.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Person S on Mar 12, 07:13 AM 2019
Quote from: Steve on Mar 12, 03:05 AM 2019
Sorry, that's a load of crap.

So in 2 spins with no zero wheel, we can have:

BB
RR
RB
BR

Then if we have B, the possible overall outcomes are BB and BR. That's a 50/50 chance. Nothing changed.

Random is as limited as numbers. It is stupidity to say random has limits in any context that can change odds.

Without a doubt, the next move will be independent and the probability is 50/50.
I see something else.
If you look at the big picture, this is different data.
Need to think about applicability in roulette, I do not think this is a recipe. But I think the advanced guys talk about it.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: hanshuckebein on Mar 12, 09:27 AM 2019
Quote from: Firefox on Mar 11, 08:01 AM 2019
You can get 110 reds in a row.

It's just a very small chance.

Random has no limits.

There's no way to take advantage of the fact that it's a small chance.

if we only think in terms of "theoretical probabilty" I would agree.
if we also take "experimental probability" into consideration I wouldn't.

cheers
hans  :)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Roulettebeater on Mar 12, 12:03 PM 2019
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Mar 12, 09:27 AM 2019
if we only think in terms of "theoretical probabilty" I would agree.
if we also take "experimental probability" into consideration I wouldn't.

cheers
hans  :)

And who cares what you agree with ?
The tables shits on your consideration and is ready to teach you a lesson when you play
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: hanshuckebein on Mar 12, 01:23 PM 2019
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Mar 12, 12:03 PM 2019
And who cares what you agree with ?

well, obviously you do as you have felt an urge to post such an unfriendly reply.

cheers
hans  :)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 12, 02:15 PM 2019
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Mar 12, 09:27 AM 2019
if we only think in terms of "theoretical probabilty" I would agree.
if we also take "experimental probability" into consideration I wouldn't.

cheers
hans  :)

Fair point Hans,  but it depends on the length of the experiment.

Let's take the experimental value we have at the moment though, about 30 even chances in a row, as I remember.

That's still enough to sink progressions like the 6x Martingale 5 times over.

So the experimental random we have evidence of now, goes many times beyond what most people would believe as random and is enough to cause their systems total ruin many times over.

While the theoretical random still lurks in the background ready to show itself at any moment and surprise us still further.

In practical terms the assistance people seek from the nature of random to improve their betting is further away than ever.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Mar 12, 04:16 PM 2019
Its not even about how rare an event is. Firstly, 100 reds in a row will happen as often as any other sequence. Secondly, the payouts are still short.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: hanshuckebein on Mar 13, 06:27 AM 2019
I guess this is a discussion that's been going on for over 200 years in some way or the other - so I will retreat from it here.

"Since there are four possible gender-pairings (man-man, man-woman, woman-man, and woman-woman) probability proves that  half of all people are gay." 

cheers
hans  :)
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 13, 06:51 AM 2019
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Mar 13, 06:27 AM 2019

"Since there are four possible gender-pairings (man-man, man-woman, woman-man, and woman-woman) probability proves that  half of all people are gay." 

cheers
hans  :)

That's a Bayesian problem though Hans. There are external influences on the pairings. Genetic, natural, historical, societal, familial, market, social, governmental, reproductive etc etc.

Whereas Red/Black or heads/tails is an a priori circumstance.

So, drawing any parallels is comparing apples with oranges.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Anastasius on Mar 13, 07:18 AM 2019
To make one wrong ec guess is about 1/2 ... but to make 2 wrong ec guesses in a.row has a 1/4 chance  right ....
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 13, 08:03 AM 2019
Wrong guess on even chance

Without zero:

1 in a row 0.5
2 in a row 0.25
3 in a row 0.125

With zero:

1 in a row 0.5135
2 in a row 0.2637
3 in a row 0.1354

So about right, but zero worsens your chance slightly all the time.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Anastasius on Mar 13, 08:44 AM 2019
I just dont understand  why people say missing once and missing 3 times for example are the same chance
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 13, 09:48 AM 2019
Most people in casinos and some people on this forum, have no clue about the most basic of probability theory let alone the more advanced stuff.

They will, for example, wait for four reds and then make a big bet on black because "black must be due", or they will make a big bet on red to "follow the wheel".

This is exactly what casinos want. Big bets. By exposing $1000 to the house edge, they pay $13.50 tax on that bet in the long run (A whopping $52.63 on a 00 wheel or $27.03 without partage on 0 wheel). By betting only say $10 they pay only $0.135 tax.

Yet there are very experienced but rather sad people here espousing the values of the Martingale, not realising the cash they are giving away the house by making large Martingale type bets.

This is how casinos make their money,  from these kinds of people.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blueprint on Mar 13, 09:56 AM 2019
Hey Firefox,

What is it that you're selling? 

Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 13, 10:09 AM 2019
I have never sold anything and never will. You can however, have knowledge for free.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Mar 13, 07:34 PM 2019
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Mar 13, 06:27 AM 2019I guess this is a discussion that's been going on for over 200 years in some way or the other

It's a "discussion" because some people really don't understand basic math.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Steve on Mar 13, 08:15 PM 2019
If you already had it "codified", you would have already done sufficient testing and know the result.

Usually knowing you have the HG happens AFTER you've coded and tested.

Almost weekly someone new contacts me proclaiming they have the HG and will take my challenge. None of them get past the first stage.  Except one guy who said he beat all my spins. He asked me to move the prize money into escrow. I agreed provided he would also put his "time waster fee" into escrow (what I get paid if his testing is inaccurate), which is a much smaller amount. He didn't proceed. I presume because he was full of shit.

Passsion, I have little doubt you're no different. But if i'm wrong and you're ready, let me know. I'm not particularly interested until then.

I suspect you might think you have something, but haven't tested properly yet. We've all been there.
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Firefox on Mar 13, 08:45 PM 2019
Quote from: PassionRuleta on Mar 13, 07:54 PM 2019
Mr. Steve, get ready!
As soon as I have a trustworthy person who can codify what I have designed, I will contact you to accept your challenge, the only thing I will ask is the 2 million balls, once proven, if you want to know what I am doing, you will have that accept my conditions.

passion roulette

What criteria is the prediction for your next bet based on, in general terms?
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: precogmiles on Mar 25, 03:07 PM 2019
Quote from: Blueprint on Mar 09, 05:29 PM 2019
Yes there is.

And yes it is.

No there isn't
Title: Re: Does random have limits?
Post by: Blood Angel on Jul 24, 09:39 AM 2019
Quote from: MoneyT101 link=topic=24988.msg221414

15 spins..why can’t you go through all 15 spins without a repeat of a dozen on the same line using my chart?
/quote]

Because there are 9 different ways of spinning dozens in 3’s. You’ve allowed for three 0’s ( which may happen) and so it follows there must be a hit in final set if not before.