Ok this is my first thread so please be kind to me.
I have been scouring the net to find the best roulette system and in this journey have connected with many likeminded roulette players and made some friends along the way.
So now I just want to share what I have learnt, mainly because I’m sitting at an airport and need to pass the time
Anyway, during my visit to this foreign land I have had some good success playing airball roulette using some ideas I have learnt along the way following this forum
In this thread I will explore these ideas and look forward to your own experiences and ideas that might contribute to finding the so called Holy Grail. The thread will contain some money management as well as system ideas
Got to hop on my flight so will stop here and continuecin about 8 hours
Here’s
Ricky
Oh my God! Just woke up and read " use cheese strategies"...
Fiou
Looking ffwd to reading this, Ricky.
As a chess player, I'm interested :)
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/sourcef239f.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZu1D)
Yes it's like a game of chess. You have to learn from experience.
And as corporal Jones would say (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/sourcebe60f.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZB4l)
Ricky,
I nowadays visit this forum without logging in, but as a chess afficionado, I had to log in and post something on this thread!
I am not sure how chess strategies can help you in your search for the roulette HG, but, hey, I am all ears.
Quote from: DoctorSudoku on Feb 23, 08:42 AM 2019
Ricky,
I nowadays visit this forum without logging in, but as a chess afficionado, I had to log in and post something on this thread!
I am not sure how chess strategies can help you in your search for the roulette HG, but, hey, I am all ears.
BTW, could the various openings help you in this regard?
Can't wait to see how the Ruy Lopez, the Sicilian, the Nimzo-Indian, the Caro Kann, etc. help us in our unending quest for the roulette HG!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Who says you can’t bet the 1 hit?
Here we see the average of 1 repeat has missed.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source72312.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZInc)
Now we’ve made 10 units; where Nimo said an easy 100.
Okay with the GUT reference of 2 repeats at spin 13, just watch. The average for non-hit in spins 11-40, is 15; but should they not come 5 in each group of 10 spins. Remember no trot is the same, for all the reasons the experts quote.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source560e9.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZmSa)
So as 13th spin shows no repeats and spin 15 is still no repeats, we are at the point of where we should only have 5 non-hits- hit in the spins 11-20. At this point isn’t the non-hit still the larger group. Okay now bet that the hit once will repeat.
You see spin 20 finally a repeat; from spin 15 I’ve added 1 unit each spin.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source73f37.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZruF)
Now the WTF section if you know of it? We will carry on betting the hit once; but unlike Celticknits we will not remove the winning number; we don’t want to be guessing who’s going to go R1 then R2.
Spin 29 the 24th non-hit is in, one more spin and we finish spins 21-30; +4, why +4, we should only have had 10 non-hit, not 14 by spin 30.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source6389b.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZ48i)
Spin 31 we are betting all hit once, regardless whether they are showing gone R’2s with unit of 5 and will stay at unit of 5 until spin 40. You see the non-hit have too slow and 31-40 there are the repeats.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source22591.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZJlA)
Now at 26 non-hits in 40 spins the game is +1. 10+15=25, so you see +1. At spin 60 the average for non-hit is 29.5, so we’ll say 30. So 4 more non-hit are expected over the next 20 spins.
We reduce to unit of 1 on the 26 that have hit and you see only 2 more non-hit manage to hit.
End +121
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source9997f.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZfbs)
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/23/source7bbb0.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OZhP7)
Not millions of spins.
Roulette a game of knowledge
Ricky
sorry for bombing your topic, but you can get it deleted
SMH ..... :question:
Back to Chess...
Prophelaxis..... similar to precognition. Very useful to predict future numbers :twisted:
Double Attack/fork ..... split bet
Over protection .... when you underbet your bankroll.
Winning advantage .... when there are good vb conditions or biased wheel.
Losing material .... when the house edge grinds your bankroll.
Controlling the centre .... good position at the table to place bets on on any part of the layout.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 23, 11:45 PM 2019
SMH ..... :question:
Back to Chess...
Prophelaxis..... similar to precognition. Very useful to predict future numbers :twisted:
Double Attack/fork ..... split bet
Over protection .... when you underbet your bankroll.
Winning advantage .... when there are good vb conditions or biased wheel.
Losing material .... when the house edge grinds your bankroll.
Controlling the centre .... good position at the table to place bets on on any part of the layout.
Those are all good ones.
But how about the most important one that can be borrowed from chess?
The simple face-saving act of RESIGNING.
Just like you can offer your resignation to your opponent in a chess game when defeat is inevitable, you can offer your resignation to the nearest pit boss when the casino has taken most of your session bank roll -- and then you can tuck your tail between your legs and run for the nearest exit.
:twisted: :twisted:
Wow thanks everyone for your interest in this thread. Just arrived home from a long trip and an unwinding at my local BM casino. Before I start this thread with my ideas I will review what you all have to say and if nothing else this should stimulate some really good discussion. Glad to see we have some chess players among us to you will probably understand the analogy I will be sharing.
By the way, first we will need to define HG so people don’t get the idea that they can just follow this thread and expect to become instant millionaire without putting a bit of thought and effort into the discussion
Will post again soon with my opening ideas
Cheers
Ricky
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 23, 09:00 AM 2019
Ricky
sorry for bombing your topic, but you can get it deleted
Hi notto
I was trying to follow where you were heading with it but in reviewing the ideas you are showing you are spot on the mark with what I want to discuss.
Before I begin, reading most ideas on the thread including how you keep track of spin cycles and look for expected distributions between hit, unhits and repeats,
It is clear most system designers see a game of roulette as a series of spins and not just an independent event. So I thing we all agree to beat roulette and the built in house edge of negative expectation we need to play the game in terms of 2 or more spins otherwise we are just guessing what random will do.
So the first comparison between chess and roulette system designs is there is multiple moves to get to the destination. Checkmate or a positive bankroll
Cheers
Ricky
Quote from: Bigbroben on Feb 23, 05:04 AM 2019
Oh my God! Just woke up and read " use cheese strategies"...
Fiou
Looking ffwd to reading this, Ricky.
;D
That made me laugh. Yep the HG is in the cheese. The longer it sits to mature the more profit you’ll make
Cheers
Ricky
Quote from: DoctorSudoku on Feb 23, 08:44 AM 2019
BTW, could the various openings help you in this regard?
Can't wait to see how the Ruy Lopez, the Sicilian, the Nimzo-Indian, the Caro Kann, etc. help us in our unending quest for the roulette HG!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Hi Doctor
Good to see your interest in the thread. I’m sure there is a lot the chess players can contribute to help explore how we can build a strategy that will allow us to declare check mate on the house
Cheers
Ricky
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 23, 11:45 PM 2019
SMH ..... :question:
Back to Chess...
Prophelaxis..... similar to precognition. Very useful to predict future numbers :twisted:
Double Attack/fork ..... split bet
Over protection .... when you underbet your bankroll.
Winning advantage .... when there are good vb conditions or biased wheel.
Losing material .... when the house edge grinds your bankroll.
Controlling the centre .... good position at the table to place bets on on any part of the layout.
Hi firefox
Your points are well taken and I think you have been using precognition to read my mind where I would like to take this thread.
Further analogies with chess.
At the start we begin with all our pieces on the board and ready to be used to their fullest advantage.
In roulette we have our bankroll sized correctly to allow us to survive all possible outcomes of the strategy we will choose. Not enough bankroll and it’s like starting a chess game without our queen.
What we do from move one and how your opponent responds will determine your success or failure by the time you get to the end move, the killer blow
More to come......
Cheers
Ricky
Hey Rick, good to hear from you my friend.
I don't post anymore on this forum for the reason you are aware of but for you i make an exception.
will contribute later on, just want to say hi to a friend. :thumbsup:
cheers,
eddy
Ricky is back, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
Hope you're still killing it, really good to see you man. Looking forward to hearing what you've been up to lately. :) :) :)
Hi Rick. Very interesting. A parallel may be drawn. :thumbsup:
Ok, before starting, lets set some ground rules for this thread to avoid any misunderstandings.
1. I am not claiming to have a so called "Holy Grail" and 100% proven method to beat roulette under all situations. But this is not to say that if we put our collective minds together we may be able to define a method of play that can provide us a positive edge better than random.
2. I use the term "Holy Grail" in more than one context in this thread which I would like to explore. The end goal of any system is not only to win a session of roulette but not to lose your bankroll. So Bankroll Management needs to be part of any successful system. It needs to have clear goals for both taking profit and setting stops. A method of play without responsible bankroll management is useless. And a sufficient bankroll without a sound method is also useless. The two go together. Some may say that to them the HG is winning more than they lose. This is true but also how you win it should be consistent and not due to luck alone. Certainly, as in life, we can all do with a little luck to survive, but we can also control our choices to make our own luck. Look left, right then left again, before crossing the road. Just like a bad choice can bring us bad luck, look left and not right can get you run over.
3. The analogy of chess gives us some framework to build a method. So if we take chess as being a series of moves and counter moves with the sole objective of capturing the opponent's king in a checkmate situation then we can describe roulette in a similar manner. Checkmate in roulette is granting a profit from one cycle of our method of play. There are mechanical systems described and discounted on this forum but all have their merits and of course their weaknesses. So when we review a method we should not judge it by the mechanical process alone but look at it in terms of the next move and even the next 10 moves and its impact on our bankroll. Some moves can be the correct ones, some not so good, others are sheer stupidity. So working out which ones we should back at each spin in the cycle is what I want to explore. Just like chess, there are multiple ways to win the game, some can be quick if we take an optimal path and our opponent does not provide the optimal countermove. Some can be a grind if we take the long route and lose some of our pieces along the way.
4. Some members have clearly articulated their method of play, others have provided riddles and puzzles, while others have not been clear on their method. I am not really interested in arguing the merits or fallacy of these as the thread will degenerate into an unproductive discussion. So to avoid this I request all to refrain from promoting or discarding any particular system. However, this thread is about finding the "Holy Grail" as I have described, taking into account how we can profit from game with the method that we choose. So to provide explanations of proper bankroll management I may bring up some examples from my own experience to demonstrate a point. I encourage you to do likewise and how your method(s) can be used in the context of building a sustainable bankroll. Personally, I play my own game and not looking to push or promote these ideas publicly. But I am always looking to improve how I can best deploy my bankroll to capitalize on situations as they arise. Just like the stockmarket presents opportunities from time to time roulette does too. But that analogy is for another discussion.
Ok hope this is all clear. Will be back to continue the discussion
cheers
Ricky.
OK,
players can build a strategy. Can we say the opponent also has one, or is our opponent ''Randomness''?
Quote from: Bigbroben on Feb 25, 01:16 PM 2019
OK,
players can build a strategy. Can we say the opponent also has one, or is our opponent ''Randomness''?
Hi Bigbroben,
Correct, our oppenent is the result of the next spin which is "random".
Will map out all the analogies in my next post so we can get started. But, as we have some keen chess players here I am sure it will become obvious. So the next step will be how to use this understanding to treat roulette like a chess game.
Cheers,
Ricky
Good comments on bankroll management. Even if playing for fun you will want to make your chips last.
With a small stack, small bets on higher probability chances are good. For example two six lines covers 12 numbers and may be cheaper than a bet on columns or EC depending on table limits. With an almost 1 in three chance to win, your money is bound to last longer and survive some bad luck so that you are still playing at the end of 37 spins and have a chance for your luck to turn.
I see many people just play for fun; they buy a stack and bet straight up on four or five numbers. A few spins later their stack is gone without even a hit and have to buy in again if they want to play. They curse the game, but poor chip management was the culprit.
Of course, if a few six lines hit early, you build your stack and can afford a couple of straight up bets or splits to go for a big win.
It's like looking after your material in a game of chess. If you are behind, don't swap it all off or blunder it away. You'll be left with nothing and be unable to fight on.
The Chess Pieces of Roulette
------------------------------------------
The various Payouts in roulette can be compared to the different abilities/powers of each chess Piece
1. Queen can move in all directions to any location on the board in any one move and can capture any of our opponent's pieces in any location where there is a direct path. But there is only one Queen under normal conditions.
The Straight Bet pays 35:1 and grants us the largest profit on any one spin. As such it can provide us the most optimal path to "checkmate" but can also be costly if not used in conjunction with our other pieces. Each Straight bet is on one number.
2. Rook/Bishop have similar powers as the Queen but can only move in a straight line either straight or diagonal respectively.
The Split Bet is the next powerful roulette piece paying 17:1. Like the Straight Bet they too can provide us reasonable path to victory overcoming any short term losses from losing moves. Each Split bet covers two numbers like the number of Rooks/Bishops. They too need to be used with caution as to not result in a negative outcome from over use.
3. Knight has a limited move on the chess board in an L shape pattern. It can be strategically placed to take advantage of these abilities and overpower the opponents exposed pieces.
The Double Street/Corner/Street bets have limited powers to overcome the house edge paying 5:1,8:1,11:1 respectively but used wisely can provide support to the more powerful pieces.
4. The Pawns are the weakest pieces and are used to block the opponent's moves and protect the more powerful pieces from getting captured.
The outside bets are the weakest bets in roulette and used alone can make profiting from the game a break even or long term loser. Here we have Doz/Columns paying 2:1 and EC paying 1:1. But they have a place when looking to overcome the odds or limiting the losses in some system designs. Some examples and ideas will be explained later on.
5. Last but not Least we have the King, the prize of all chess players to declare checkmate in a battle for the kingdom.
Here the correctly sized Bankroll to overcome the odds is your King and the Casino's money is the opponent's King. We are in an endless battle to take each other's King. It's like a battle between David and Galliath.
These are my analogies. Feel free to correct my thinking and add your own before we start looking at strategies.
Cheers,
Ricky
So are you heading towards ''hedging'' with all those different pieces powers?
The knight and bishop are more or less equal. Maybe modern thinking has bishops at slightly more than the knight but it depends on the position.
Accordingly I may have the rook on splits and streets, and the minor pieces on corners and six lines. Maybe bishop on corners and knight on six line if you like the bishop better ;)
PS This also works well, because splits and streets are horizontal lines, corners reflect the diagonal attack, and six lines contain the L shape of the knight.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 25, 02:05 PM 2019Of course, if a few six lines hit early, you build your stack and can afford a couple of straight up bets or splits to go for a big win.
It's like looking after your material in a game of chess. If you are behind, don't swap it all off or blunder it away. You'll be left with nothing and be unable to fight on.
You bring up some good points that is the purpose of this thread. How to best use your bankroll so as not to squander it to the Casino. As a quick example, the other day I was 400 down playing a system that got into a bad losing streak. I had to declare defeat for that session and regrouped and came back with a different strategy more suited to what numbers wer coming out. As I was sufficiently sized to take such a loss I had enough bankroll to apply my other strategy and was able to recoup my previous session loss and eck out a small profit.
The other point you make is about building a long term stack (bankroll). I call this my Fighting Fund which I will expand on later. Its the fund that you leave at home like your cash account when trading and only draw on a small percentage of it when you play for real money. Your goal is always to take more bankroll home that you started with and add to your Fighting Fund. Eventually, your fund will be sufficiently sized to allow you to increase your base bets.
More about Bankroll Management to come in future posts. Also looking forward to your ideas on how you manage your bankroll if playing for real money. I've learnt a bit from several members already so will be good to discuss how you can grow say $200 or evern $10 into say $25,000 over time. We all want to do this but do not have a clear path how to proceed. It gets too overwhelming looking at $10 and visualizing how this can grow to $25K using roulette. This is part of the True Holy Grail. Like its been said, if you do not know how to manage your bankroll having the HG stare straight at you will do you no good as you will not know how to apply it.
Cheers,
Ricky
Quote from: Bigbroben on Feb 25, 02:24 PM 2019
So are you heading towards ''hedging'' with all those different pieces powers?
As I said, not looking to promote any method of play but no matter which method you choose it can be played with multiple bet types and one can be used in combination with another. Two of the same bet type can be used eg 2 dozens or two or more Streets.
Then there is the advantage of overlapping bets to get multiple payouts like straight/split combination
I have tried a few combinations with some good success so look forward to sharing ideas that could be used to build a robust system or method that will have some merit in playing one or more moves of our chess pieces.
"hedging" is a good term and yes the different bet types can be used intelligently to hedge against the opponent's next move.
Cheers,
Ricky
Thanks Firefox for your feedback. This all makes sense and I have updated my analogy to take into account your input
The Chess Pieces of Roulette
------------------------------------------
The various Payouts in roulette can be compared to the different abilities/powers of each chess Piece
1. Queen can move in all directions to any location on the board in any one move and can capture any of our opponent's pieces in any location where there is a direct path. But there is only one Queen under normal conditions.
The Straight Bet pays 35:1 and grants us the largest profit on any one spin. As such it can provide us the most optimal path to "checkmate" but can also be costly if not used in conjunction with our other pieces. Each Straight bet is on one number.
2. Rook have similar powers as the Queen but can only move in a straight line. On their own they could over power the King but are best used with the Queen.
The Split/Street Bets are the next two powerful roulette piece paying 17:1 and 11:1 respectively. Like the Straight Bet they too can provide us reasonable path to victory overcoming any short term losses from losing moves. Each Split bet covers two numbers like the number of Rooks. They too need to be used with caution as to not result in a negative outcome from over use. Like the rook both splits and streets cover two or three horizontal or vertical numbers.
3. Bishop Maybe modern thinking has bishops at slightly more than the knight but it depends on the position.
The Corner bets has limited powers to overcome the house edge paying 8:1. Similar to the movement of the Bishop, a Corner bet is made from the four diagonal numbers.
4. Knight has a limited move on the chess board in an L shape pattern. It can be strategically placed to take advantage of these abilities and overpower the opponents exposed pieces.
The Double Street has limited powers to overcome the house edge paying 5:1 but used wisely can provide support to the more powerful pieces. From a move perspective the 6 numbers of DS can be viewed like the L shape of the Knights move.
5. The Pawns are the weakest pieces and are used to block the opponent's moves and protect the more powerful pieces from getting captured.
The outside bets are the weakest bets in roulette and used alone can make profiting from the game a break even or long term loser. Here we have Doz/Columns paying 2:1 and EC paying 1:1. But they have a place when looking to overcome the odds or limiting the losses in some system designs. Some examples and ideas will be explained later on.
6. Last but not Least we have the King, the prize of all chess players to declare checkmate in a battle for the kingdom.
Here the correctly sized Bankroll to overcome the odds is your King and the Casino's money is the opponent's King. We are in an endless battle to take each other's King. It's like a battle between David and Galliath.
I also look upon corners and splits as double atracks and family forks on sectors.
When playing visual ballistics or dealers signature after ball release you need to get bets down quickly after you have clocked the rotor speed, decided it is in range, and worked out which sector the ball will land in.
For example the corner bet 28,29,31,32 and the splits 0,3 and 9,12 cover 8 numbers in a 13 number sector from 31 to 32. You can place these in two movements, easily within a couple if seconds.
You can also call neighbours to the dealer, but I don't like doing this. Wheel watching, late bets, calling neighbours bets and winning is suspicious. Placing quite bets on corners and lines is much more covert.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 25, 04:13 PM 2019
I also look upon corners and splits as double atracks and family forks on sectors.
When playing visual ballistics or dealers signature after ball release you need to get bets down quickly after you have clocked the rotor speed, decided it is in range, and worked out which sector the ball will land in.
For example the corner bet 28,29,31,32 and the splits 0,3 and 9,12 cover 8 numbers in a 13 number sector from 31 to 32. You can place these in two movements, easily within a couple if seconds.
You can also call neighbours to the dealer, but I don't like doing this. Wheel watching, late bets, calling neighbours bets and winning is suspicious. Placing quite bets on corners and lines is much more covert.
Thanks for sharing this quick sector move. I’m very interested in VB concepts and always looking for ways to cover sectors. If you have more time to lay your bets you can cover 18 numbers in that sector with 12 chips assuming you place 2 chips on the corner bet
The total bet would be
Corner 28,29,31,32
Splits 0:3 1:4 9:12 14:15 19:20
Straights 22 18 7 35 26
That’s just under 50% of board
But if you want to be more accurate you can drop off some splits to increase payout
Cheers
Ricky
At least we can agree that, as I've always said, bankroll is king!
If bankroll is king, the war is lost even before the 1st blood is drawn.
An army of 1,000 man vs the opponent army of 1,000,000 man.
Look at the dealers tray of chips that you buy in your bankroll, your stack is overwhelmed.
Wars and battles are not won by numbers. Read history.
From an army of 1,000 man, select just the suited few for the forth coming battle.
To win, know your enemy know yourself. Choose your battle.
True victory is won before the 1st shot is fired.
Cheers
What the hell does a 100 spin graph prove about using chess strategies for roulette?
Ahhh, you must be playing blitz chess. :smile:
That's very clever luckyfella, you're onto something there. A great contribution to the thread, and food for thought. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Taotie on Feb 26, 01:21 AM 2019
What the hell does a 100 spin graph prove about using chess strategies for roulette?
Ahhh, you must be playing blitz chess. :smile:
That's very clever luckyfella, you're onto something there. A great contribution to the thread, and food for thought. :thumbsup:
For Ricky's sake, stop posting your useless loser dribble on this thread pls. TQ
Thanks to luckyfella's stumbling, we can direct the discussion to a more likely application of chess strategy for roulette.
Chess is all about playing for check mate, or for the opponent to retire. Well, roulette will never retire. So for roulette chess, it's checkmate or nothing.
Blitz chess however, is all about material points. At the end of certain time constraints, the player with the highest accumulated material points wins.
I believe blitz chess strategies would be far better suited to roulette.
Quote from: Taotie on Feb 26, 01:21 AM 2019
What the hell does a 100 spin graph prove about using chess strategies for roulette?
Hey, you could try answering the question.
Perhaps I should rephrase it. What does posting a totally random and unexplained 100 spin sample bring to the discussion?
Quote from: Taotie on Feb 26, 02:53 AM 2019
Thanks to luckyfella's stumbling, we can direct the discussion to a more likely application of chess strategy for roulette.
Chess is all about playing for check mate, or for the opponent to retire. Well, roulette will never retire. So for roulette chess, it's checkmate or nothing.
Blitz chess however, is all about material points. At the end of certain time constraints, the player with the highest accumulated material points wins.
I believe blitz chess strategies would be far better suited to roulette.
Here is my answer to the question.
I agree with your blitz chess analogy.
That's how I play roulette.
Ofc the strategy is math base.
The graph shows how I chose my battles as the chess moves are presented by the wheel.
I decide when, where and how much to commit it many multiple mini battles.
Each of this mini battle is allotted a cost. I don't have to win all battles.
My objective is to win the war, ie. win more material with least collateral damage.
That's explains for the relevance of the graph I posted. That itinerate the details of the entire 100spins war I chose to engage in.
A real practical demonstration of the wall of text I post here.
Hope this answers your question.
Cheers.
Quote from: Taotie on Feb 26, 02:55 AM 2019
Perhaps I should rephrase it. What does posting a totally random and unexplained 100 spin sample bring to the discussion?
Like the chess game, there is no way to explain the intricate moves of each game in a single post.
At best is to touch the broad base strategy that OP intended for his thread. That I have done in my posts above.
Toatie/Luckyfella, both good posts.
I'm glad to see an intellectual discussion starting and we can share ideas as a team. As I said, I'm not interested in anyone revealing their system if they choose not to. My interest is in improving my game just like we can all improve our chess game. As a child I enjoyed playing chess but nothing beats getting paid for using your strategies to beat roulette. So combine the two games and we can overpower the enemy.
Point 1: Know your enemy.
Point 2: Have a plan before you go into battle. The war is won or lost before the battle begins. So true.
Point 3: The size of the Galliath should not overwhelm us. Think Brave Heart. Why do Casinos fear Advantage Players? The little guy with a brain is a threat to their business model. Think Don Johnson of Blackjack fame. He was only a racerack manager turned professional gambler.
So don't underestimate what we can learn playing chess strategies to beat the house.
Keep the ideas flowing. I'm keen to learn as much as you are to hear my ideas.
More to come.
Cheers,
Ricky
Ricky,
all those different pieces of chess are put on different places on the board to elaborate the strategy, to get ready for defense or to attack. Positioning, just as on the roulette board.
Attack: would to parallel an attack with wagers? Reinvest a won battle's treasure in another attack on the same ennemy's weak spot? I.e, short-term compound of success...?
Defense: Not to attack all the time, spare the troops, wait, small squirmishes in the meantime, lose a pion...
Another way to look at table layout or wheel betting is the territorial strategy where multiple 'traps' are set up to capture the opponents material, similar to the game of go. Here management of resources, ie. bankroll is key to always try maintain balance of survival until the 'traps' are sprung.
I wish I had learned Go also, it seems very strategic.
Hope everyone is having fun. I certainly am watching your input coming in. This place is like a house on fire. I think we have some seasoned players here and I am greatful for your contributions. My starting idea was not going to be this elaborate but I can see how you are all thinking. Brilliant.
Lets summarize your points so we can expand on them in the thread. Some may even be worthy of their own thread.
1. Start small bets and stage an attack. Get some little victories and collect your ammunition for the bigger battle (Bigbroben) :thumbsup:
2. Redeploy your lute with a bigger attack when your oppoenent is at his most weakest. Eg a streak of reds or lows is forming. Your opponent can't help himself to give you an easy victory. Use your stolen ammunition to feed the fire of his weakness. Result is a bigger victory. Traditionally called Parlaying part of your winnings for free bet (Bigbroben) :thumbsup:
3. Use Defensive measures to either regroup or retreat when you have finished a session. Wait and see what your oppenents next move will be. :thumbsup:
4. Set a trap by covering the wheel with various bets (overlapping, whole sectors) etc to force the opponent to hit a certain part of the wheel. Don't give him the whole wheel to aim at, use VB to identify where he is most weakest and set a trap. No use wasting amo where he is unlikely to attack next move (luckyfella) :D
We will explore these ideas so should be really interesting. I think we may just find that HG.
Cheers,
Ricky
Ok. Not sure how this will turn out but will start with an unoriginal idea (two actually) to see if we can create a simple system people can play to practice managing their bankroll. After this idea I have one that practices moving chess pieces around the board to hedge bets and respond to the wheel's next move. But that will be posted later.
System 1. (my interpretation of two veteren posters on this forum and others).
I have played 360 downloaded spins of a live wheel roulette from Bremin Casino and produced the below graph
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/02/26/source238b5.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/On39S)
Don't worry, I am not going to keep you guessing on what I'm playing. But I want to see if we can improve the rules to better capture our profits. This is just an example of two systems combined that should not cost us a large bankroll but we can utilize the casino winnings to increase our bets in a systematic way. We will not play continuously with the strategy if we have not won a few battles.
Before I reveal whom I am referring to and the rules I used I want those who wish to contribute to tell me what I'm doing just to make it interesting and fun. The RX session data and export of spins and bets are in attach zip file. There is no RX code I played this manually using some rules that I made up on the fly in response to what I was seeing. But there is an underlying strategy I used. It so happened to provide a profit in this instance. A HG by no means but it could be a base for a solid method. Let see if anyone agrees. If not we can move on.
Back tomorrow with abated breath to see what you come up with.
Cheers,
Ricky
For me deception is an important part of my strategy at the casino. I don't play system roulette but as Ricky said, system play versus advantage play is a debate for another day. But the important thing to know about wheel clocking and sector play is if the casino suspect you may be doing it and winning, they disrupt it by changing the conditions. Therfore I need to be deceptive about what I am doing.
In chess we sometimes see deception in action. Play on one wing could be a ploy to lure the opponents resources, or misplace his queen. You may even gambit material to do so. This is followed by a mating attack on the other wing.
Another example would be setting a trap. Offering material which results in trapping the queen as in the poisened pawn variation of the Sicilian.
Or one may deceive by preparing a line in private including an opening novelty which you then spring on an opponent when he is expecting you to play something else.
In advantage play, there are two main phases. The data gathering phase and the execution. Data gathering may include diamond fall off plots, bounce and scatter plots, looking at dealer rotor speeds, or dealer quirks and habits. I would want to watch 100's of spins and results before I start playing more seriously.
Hanging around for hours just looking at the wheels and recording is suspicious behaviour. So, I will act like a regular player. I'll make minimal bets here and there often on red or black which only attracts a minus 1.35% house edge. I may make comments like 4 reds in a row, black must hit now, and pretending to be recording reds and blacks while actually recording diamond and scatter plots. All recording is done on the cards provided by the house. Later I will transfer the data to a spreadsheet or notebook at home.
If a wheel or dealer is worth playing, I then come back and bet more on sectors. I don't usually call out neighbours but make sector bets based in splits, streets, and corners. Sometimes I bet a few straight up. If predictions are good and I start winning I will also make the odd minimum bet on red or black. The house knows clockers and sector players can't win on even chances so my betting pattern is confusing.
Lastly, I conceal winnings. Higher value chips go in the pockets so the only thing visible is a small stack. I don't gloat or parade chips if I'm up. In fact I always pretend I'm down or unlucky. Another ploy is buying in with cash for more colour even if you don't need to. Pit bosses like to see a regular stream of banknotes going in the drop slot.
This may all sound a lot of effort, but it is really easy for the pit boss to change the ball or ask the dealer to vary it or change the dealer. So I strive to maintain good conditions as long as possible and lull the house into a false sense of normality.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 26, 08:48 PM 2019VB Advantage play gives me 5% edge
Hi Firefox,
thanks for your detailed description how you use VB to get an edge. Although this thread is heading towards building a robust system for those who like system play, I am quite intrigued at how you go about the process. Regardless of how we select our bets, there is still common ground we can explore. Mainly no system or method is any good without managing a bankroll and being properly sized to grow it using your method at the table. So I would be interested in how you size your bets and what process you go through to increase them.
The other day I watched a video showing a guy who turned 17 euro into 1500 using similar sector betting although he was not usung VB but playing airball and claims to know the algorithm that it uses to choose a sector of the wheel.
When you identify where you think the ball will land how do you go about placing your bets? Do you split the wheel into sectors of certain number of pockets?
Cheers,
Ricky
Is the guy you are referring to called Karl, logarithm roulette on You Tube? If so I would be wary of him. He uses a positive progression to multiply capital. As we all know, positive progressions lose steadily and then hit the odd spectacular win. Karl is suspected of just posting the winning videos. Although he uses neighbours and sectors to place bets quickly he bets randomly but he would say they are chosen "logarithmically". Now having posted all winning videos he is proposing to charge 500 EUR for his system. People can make up their own minds!
I work using the black numbers only. The output of my predicting is one of the 18 black numbers on the wheel. For each black number I know the splits, streets and corners that pepper the area that number is in.
For example if my prediction is 8, the split bets I would use are 5-8 8-11 10-11 23-24 24-27 27-30 & 30-33.
I probably won't have time to place all these depending on where I am standing but I will aim to cover 5 or 6 numbers in that area. Although my prediction is a black number splits like 27-30 cover red numbers. I'm not fussy about black or red, so long as they have better probability of winning than normal, but I use black numbers to predict as white on black is easier to for me to see when the wheel is moving at speed.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 27, 09:52 AM 2019
Is the guy you are referring to called Karl, logarithm roulette on You Tube? If so I would be wary of him. He uses a positive progression to multiply capital. As we all know, positive progressions lose steadily and then hit the odd spectacular win. Karl is suspected of just posting the winning videos. Although he uses neighbours and sectors to place bets quickly he bets randomly but he would say they are chosen "logarithmically". Now having posted all winning videos he is proposing to charge 500 EUR for his system. People can make up their own minds!
I work using the black numbers only. The output of my predicting is one of the 18 black numbers on the wheel. For each black number I know the splits, streets and corners that pepper the area that number is in.
For example if my prediction is 8, the split bets I would use are 5-8 8-11 10-11 23-24 24-27 27-30 & 30-33.
I probably won't have time to place all these depending on where I am standing but I will aim to cover 5 or 6 numbers in that area. Although my prediction is a black number splits like 27-30 cover red numbers. I'm not fussy about black or red, so long as they have better probability of winning than normal, but I use black numbers to predict as white on black is easier to for me to see when the wheel is moving at speed.
Yes that’s the guy. I knew he was trying to sell his approach. You are right he seemed to randomly up his bets around the sectors he identified. The did not seem to be any structure around it so did suspect he was hoping for a big hit. I guess if you start with 17 euro you can have many goes to get to 1500 and fail with many of them.
Again thanks for sharing your approach on how you place your bets. This goes to our money management to exploit our advantage. I think using splits as you do can be incorporated into system play when choosing a number say to repeat we don’t just cover the number we can add splits and corners to all our repeats thus limiting random from avoiding our bets
Cheers
Ricky
Bear in mind two chips on a split is the same thing as two straight up as is three on a street or four on a corner. But I use the splits etc to place bets quickly or disguise that I am playing a sector. If you have the time and resources you can bet straight up, but the min bet on a multiple chance may be attractive if money is tight.
Karl has quite a following now on YT and he is playing them along. Many of his fans don't seem to understand what he is doing. Newcomers usually play flat bets or negative progressions like martingale or D'Alambert, so his win pattern is something wonderous to them!
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 27, 04:09 PM 2019
Bear in mind two chips on a split is the same thing as two straight up as is three on a street or four on a corner.
Yes and I want to explore ways we can use these bets as hedge bets to cover the wheel as part of an over strategy. But first I want to explore the first method.
Ok, Hope you all had a chance to review the graph and the bets I made. As you can see from the peaks and troughs it had a good run and bad run based on my defined strategy. This shows that you cannot use a mechanical system in isolation of your opponents counter moves. So we need to be able to react to the negative expectation in time to protect any profits gained.
The example I am about to share is by no means a HG, nor do I claim it to be my preferred method of betting. It is one of many strategies I deploy from time to time depending on what the dealer is spinning. As we will explore there are pros and cons to betting this way. And I look forward to your feedback if you were deploying a similar strategy what you would do in such circumstances where you are winning as well as where you are losing with this method.
As I mentioned, I used two strategies in the example which were inspired by two posters in this forum and others. I combined them into a method to provide me an increasing bet size. The strategies are:
Sit down at the table and start recording spins until you get a repeat of a number then start deploying below strategies
Strategy 1. Looking for a repeat in 38 spins flat betting with no increasing bets as uniques fall. When a number repeats backtrack to all uniques that occurred before the repeat and place 1 unit on them.
Strategy 2. For each repeat I keep it and add 1 unit each time it hits. For a more agressive play you may wish to use a 1-3-9 or 1-5-25 progression
If I get a hit of a repeat from Strategy 2 and it is not part of the current sequence of uniques in Strategy 1 I keep all numbers and continue betting.
Hope this makes sense. You can refer to the csv file I shared for the examples. but here is the first couple of bets from the file. You can see with 29 there was a back to back win and we won 72 units because of the positive progression.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/03/02/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/UtwnK)
I will let you review in details the strategy and then we can discuss the pros and cons and how we can add rules to improve it. As this is a chess strategies thread I am looking for ideas where we can exploit the opponents current weakness and defend agains his strengths.
More to come.
Cheers,
Ricky
Excellent Ricky, just this basic form is better than 99% of systems out there because it focuses on repeats within a fixed timespan. I would bet that it does well over time depending on if the player has the BR to use an aggressive positive progression.
I don't have anything to add on the chess side, other than perhaps one of the parachute type recovery progressions can be considered "castling" for obvious reasons. :twisted:
Good post, will sit down and play with this next week when time permits.
Quote from: Firefox on Feb 27, 09:52 AM 2019
. Now having posted all winning videos he is proposing to charge 500 EUR for his system. People can make up their own minds!
Hi there!
I just want to clarify quick something: my system never was the price 500â,¬!! Why you inform wrong the mass?!?? Show me where I said is 500â,¬ ???
I start selling my system with 30â,¬ down payment and I also said after the winnings the players send me the rest from 470â,¬. Since a while ago I changed to 50â,¬ the down payment. So please don’t mess up the informations.
Ricky,
you have compared our pieces to different bets. How would you describe the opponent's pieces? How to you play to take/neutralize the opponent's ''queen'', to continue with the analogy?
Quote from: Bigbroben on Mar 22, 01:48 PM 2019
Ricky,
you have compared our pieces to different bets. How would you describe the opponent's pieces? How to you play to take/neutralize the opponent's ''queen'', to continue with the analogy?
See first few pages.
Queen - Straight up
Rook - Cheval, Street
Bishop - Cormer
Knight - Six line
It doesn't quite work. Although the Queen is the most powerful, it's also the bet which is easiest taken!
Quote from: Mako on Mar 03, 01:37 PM 2019
Excellent Ricky, just this basic form is better than 99% of systems out there because it focuses on repeats within a fixed timespan. I would bet that it does well over time depending on if the player has the BR to use an aggressive positive progression.
I don't have anything to add on the chess side, other than perhaps one of the parachute type recovery progressions can be considered "castling" for obvious reasons. :twisted:
Good post, will sit down and play with this next week when time permits.
Hi Mako,
thanks for your response. Its been a while since I last posted and wanted to ponder the topic a bit before continuing. I also wanted to determine who else was interested in the concept. Starting to get some responses so win continue to discuss this topic in coming days. I have been playing this strategy for the last month to determine where the weaknesses are and it definitely is in need of some strict rules to limit any downturn from the spin from hell which will eat away at your bankroll and profits.
More to come
Ricky
Quote from: Bigbroben on Mar 22, 01:48 PM 2019
Ricky,
you have compared our pieces to different bets. How would you describe the opponent's pieces? How to you play to take/neutralize the opponent's ''queen'', to continue with the analogy?
Hi Bigbroben,
Understanding the opponents pieces is an important part of the game. You need to know your adversary to have a chance at winning the battle let alone the war.
I would not equate chess pieces to your roulette opponent but would define the opponent's move as the random result of the bet. So if you have placed your pieces down, the opponent will randomly choose a location on the wheel to counter your move. The result will be he will either capture your losing pieces or will have to pay you out on your winning pieces at a rate equal to the payout.
Once we have defined our pieces we will use in our strategy, the next step is to determine our next move based on the result of the last spin.
More to come.
Cheers,
Ricky
IMO, this chess thing only gonna work if you use different complete strategies for each chess piece.
Will read this on the weekend ....
Quote from: bigmoney on Jul 04, 07:03 AM 2019
Will read this on the weekend ....
Thanks bigmoney for your interest in reviving this thread. I will add some more thoughts soon but let me just point out that there is no real HG here. The solution does not exist. What I am discussing here are principles and ideas to gain an advantage over luck alone.
For those that are looking for the solution that works like an ATM machine with 100% guarantees of success need not read further.
Cheers
Ricky
Hedging in a negative expectation game is silly. ::)
An you researched this strategy how long ...private ???
Quote from: bigmoney on Jul 05, 07:22 PM 2019
An you researched this strategy how long ...private ???
Regardless of how you structure and place your bets on the layout,
the house edge remains the same, with the exception being the five number bet 0,00,1,2,3 which has an even higher house edge.
Quote from: The General on Jul 05, 06:04 PM 2019
Hedging in a negative expectation game is silly. ::)
If you have confidence in your bet hedging is not required. I am using hedging to allow for variance when your bet selection goes against you. In respect to the way you play using VB approach your accuracy may be high enough not to require some sort of hedge. You seem to have a high skill level to play with confidence that all your bets will mostly win.
But for those not so skilled in the ability to use VB concepts to this level could benefit from placing some sort of hedge to offset those sessions which seem to go against you. So rather than giving up on using VB concepts to provide the advantage if the player were to add a 50/50 bet equivalent to the primary bet then they have a 50% chance of covering a he cost. Do they will feel more confident in placing the bet even though their previous bets lost using the VB strategy.
This principle may not be useful for everyone. And as you stated, if your primary bet is not one based on an advantage, like using VB principles to calculate the most likely sector the ball will fall, then any hedge in the bet will not give you an added advantage
Cheers
Ricky