I've finally glimpsed the HG and now know what form it takes!!! O0
This topic is dedicated to RouletteGhost... :thumbsup:
Firstly I'll try to describe it then later I'll show you the steps I took in the process of reverse-engineering it that lead to this new interpretation and understanding - though this is only the beginning of the journey and there's still a lot that's not fully understood.
You remember the Fractal example?
- Certain outcomes get locked out at certain times
- Some outcomes cannot immediately follow other outcomes
- Some areas are hit more than others despite outcomes being equally likely
- NEW: some paths are traveled more than others
What I found out is that when you chart random numbers through a non-random cycles framework you get to peer inside the "order-out-of-chaos" that is reminiscent of Dyksexlik's philosophical example of sunset and sunrise being the same event - but viewed from different perspectives.
Imagine some kind of nuclear reactor where many chemical reactions are taking place inside at the core. You can get a view of what's taking place in 320 x 240 resolution or even 640 x 480 - depending on what cycles framework you choose. I certainly don't have a 4K view of it yet - call it magic spectacles if you will.
So here's what's happening inside: every parallel stream you include in your cycles framework is orbiting around the same sequence of events that choose different paths - but some streams represent a better measure than others at different times throughout the sequence of events, contributing to our low resolution visual.
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/1RgPqpf3/atom-light-640x360.jpg)
All parallel streams get "filtered" onto roughly the same set of paths - some more prominent than others.
The more streams you have the more cheaper or profitable you are able to transform the path that would otherwise be more expensive if traversed via a single stream that has no special properties.
All paths start at the same place = X stream, spin 1; Y stream; spin 1; Z stream, spin 1, etc. Due to the fractal nature of these paths (see bullet points above), most lead off towards quick wins and quick recoveries via negative progression (have yet to test through positive progressions). But a few specific paths can lead off into big losses and break the bank; however, with more streams and better information/visual framework of the core you are able to travel further along these most desolate of paths. It remains to be determined whether the few undesirable pathways can be overcome - or whether they end up in the abyss - but you have control over which paths you take.
Combine each spin of Dozen Cycles + Line Cycles... Did you know that while some paths are more dominant over others, 5 outcomes are completely locked out and never cross each other:
D2 + LCL1
D3 + LCL1
D3 + LCL2
DCL1 + L5
DCL1 + L6
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/wjx93nNS/paths.png)
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 17, 07:46 PM 2019some kind of nuclear reactor where many chemical reactions are taking place inside at the core
Surely you meant
nuclear reactions are taking place inside at the core.
The difference between gunpowder and the nuclear bomb. O0
First stage of reverse-engineering:
No stream/group is necessarily better than another stream/group per se. Regardless of whether you play dozens or numbers you are still expected to break even in the long run and ultimately lose the house edge depending on how many zeroes are in place.
The most important thing is to gain profit. If we were to play a single spin in our lifetime and hope for the best of coming away with some kind of profit then we would bet 34 numbers and hope to get a +1!
So that means we should concentrate on most likely events = MLE.
A single stream can offer us a single MLE target over one spin, such as 66% for 2 dozens.
A cycle can offer us similar MLE targets - but over the course of multiple spins.
When playing cycles each group starts off with different MLEs that reduce as more uniques show.
Dozen 1... bet 2+3 = 66%
Number 1... bet 35 numbers = 98%
Number 1,2... bet 34 numbers = 95% maybe? (=reduced MLE)
Once passing the average cycle length the MLEs start to grow again - but we cannot be sure which opportunities we will be presented with "on the way back" so to speak because the repeat can happen any time. The earlier the repeat comes the less MLE opportunities we get.
If we had about 18 unique numbers show then we can bet all 18 with a similar MLE of about 98% towards the end of the cycle - opposite to the start of the cycle, etc.
More later...
Here I am comparing single bets on several numbers excl. zero vs. cycle bets at different stages based on MLE:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/08/19/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/06dF0)
Initially we have to bet on uniques before switching to repeats once passing the average cycle length of 8 spins for number cycles.
If you bet 18 numbers normally then you only get 50/50 odds; however, if you bet 18 numbers upon naturally reaching CL18 then you have a 99.8% chance of winning!
As long as you re-track on a repeat and carry over only the last number then the above stats will hold. If you take all the previous uniques and carry them over at the end of each cycle then the CL18 will become more common and the stats will change.
You can bet 18 numbers any time you like - but you cannot force an opportunity on CL18.
A long cycle of 18 spins could be viewed as disadvantageous based on a negative progression - but perhaps with a positive progression we could use longer cycles to our advantage.
Betting on Behalf
EDIT: I refer to unhits as uniques - but "uniques" is probably the wrong terminology.
Reaching CL18 with your bankroll still intact - or winning most number cycles could be considered the HG in it's own right. CL25 would be the longest that one could expect to possibly encounter during a lifetime.
This brings me onto the concept of "betting on behalf" (of, say, a number cycle). Betting 18 numbers is like-for-like betting on an EC. If we were chasing losses using a negative progression then it wouldn't matter if we bet 18 numbers to repeat or 18 units on a single half-EC that overlapped with those numbers.
However, if our BR was reset to zero from hitting a unique then when it came to repeats we would only need to bet 1 unit on an EC to make a profit instead of risking 18 units to make an excessive profit - for our goal in mind is MLE - not sudden gains or LLE. Therefore, betting an EC half instead of numbers (or betting on behalf) suddenly becomes more appealing for keeping a stable BR, in light of MLE.
Besides switching from uniques to repeats we could be betting repeats with a "net" that unintentionally catches a unique, say, resetting our BR - but the number cycle still remains open; therefore, we can once again opt for an EC instead of, say, dozens to continue betting on behalf of the numbers to repeat.
Another reason to bet 1 unit on an EC instead of 18 units on individual numbers: when we parlay and stitch winnings as part of a positive progression (incidentally, this concept is incompatible with negative progressions) then we either take the total parlayed winnings over X spins or we lose the units that were wagered on just the first bet. Now, if the first bet was only 1 unit then that is a lot better than having to lose 18 units every time.
So to summarise we can bet:
1) Like-for-like, i.e. 1 dozen = 2 lines precisely.
2) Net, i.e. 1 EC that covers 13-17 numbers in the hope of a repeat - potentially helped a long by an unexpected hit on a unique.
So how streams overlap each other during a cycle is quite crucial for positive progressions, aiding parlays, and ultimately surviving long cycles and advancing to near-100% MLEs.
Remember: if you get to CL18 then you can start calling the shots! And Roulette is not even about 36 numbers, so you could in fact parachute onto a custom 72-number Roulette following a long number cycle. Again, it's all about MLE and advancing to the next stage.
Up next: partially betting on behalf and finding a cheaper investment.
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 19, 04:38 PM 2019
Betting on Behalf
EDIT: I refer to unhits as uniques - but "uniques" is probably the wrong terminology.
Reaching CL18 with your bankroll still intact - or winning most number cycles could be considered the HG in it's own right. CL25 would be the longest that one could expect to possibly encounter during a lifetime.
This brings me onto the concept of "betting on behalf" (of, say, a number cycle). Betting 18 numbers is like-for-like betting on an EC. If we were chasing losses using a negative progression then it wouldn't matter if we bet 18 numbers to repeat or 18 units on a single half-EC that overlapped with those numbers.
However, if our BR was reset to zero from hitting a unique then when it came to repeats we would only need to bet 1 unit on an EC to make a profit instead of risking 18 units to make an excessive profit - for our goal in mind is MLE - not sudden gains or LLE. Therefore, betting an EC half instead of numbers (or betting on behalf) suddenly becomes more appealing for keeping a stable BR, in light of MLE.
Besides switching from uniques to repeats we could be betting repeats with a "net" that unintentionally catches a unique, say, resetting our BR - but the number cycle still remains open; therefore, we can once again opt for an EC instead of, say, dozens to continue betting on behalf of the numbers to repeat.
Another reason to bet 1 unit on an EC instead of 18 units on individual numbers: when we parlay and stitch winnings as part of a positive progression (incidentally, this concept is incompatible with negative progressions) then we either take the total parlayed winnings over X spins or we lose the units that were wagered on just the first bet. Now, if the first bet was only 1 unit then that is a lot better than having to lose 18 units every time.
So to summarise we can bet:
1) Like-for-like, i.e. 1 dozen = 2 lines precisely.
2) Net, i.e. 1 EC that covers 13-17 numbers in the hope of a repeat - potentially helped a long by an unexpected hit on a unique.
So how streams overlap each other during a cycle is quite crucial for positive progressions, aiding parlays, and ultimately surviving long cycles and advancing to near-100% MLEs.
Remember: if you get to CL18 then you can start calling the shots! And Roulette is not even about 36 numbers, so you could in fact parachute onto a custom 72-number Roulette following a long number cycle. Again, it's all about MLE and advancing to the next stage.
Up next: partially betting on behalf and finding a cheaper investment.
Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to post your findings. I’ve been following the whole MoneyT101,Priyanka, rrbb and falkor2k15 posts/threads. It’s great to see your ideas.
np - this is where it gets interesting!
So far we are not trying to quickly close off a cycle - but to let them naturally flow to their limits to the point where the repeat becomes more certain. This involves targeting uniques first or netting a mixture of the two before concentrating on the repeats exclusively to the point where random is forced to shut the trap door in an instant. Usually we don't know when we are due for a win - but a cycles framework sure gives us an indication - providing we can reach the outer zone intact. Too much crap happens around spin 1 - the juicy stuff happens when the higher cycle lengths present themselves.
The name of the game is to pick multiple streams and then concentrate on which provide the best MLE opportunities, betting on behalf for a cheap investment, and trying to progress up the ladder so to speak.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/08/19/source6c44c.png)
Streams in parallel possess dependency on the same spin - as you know from previous topics of this nature. Let's take dozens + lines...
On spin 1 Lines offer us the best MLE opportunity for the moment - requiring a 5 line bet:
2... bet 1+3+4+5+6
83% LCL2-6
However, DCL2-3 (=D2) is highly dependent, offering us a cheaper alternative to partially bet on behalf of the LCL2-6 event:
D2 + L2 170046
DCL1 + L2 42365
DCL1 + LCL1 42157
So instead of a 5 line bet we can use a 2 dozen bet.
If Dozen Cycles and Line Cycles both go to spin 2 then we have a choice of MLEs:
56% LCL3-6
78% DCL1-2
DCL2 actually provides us a better opportunity at this stage, and we have a choice of dependent bets:
DCL2 + LCL2 56773
D3 + L3 56765
DCL2 + L3 56508
D3 + LCL3 843
LCL2 and L3 are both equal - but LCL2 is cheaper to play than L3! Note: we aren't playing for D3 because it's not MLE, so we ignore those two out of the above four choices.
Instead of a 2 dozen bet then we now have a 2 line bet to partially cover the 2 dozens with dependency.
Likewise if we wanted to play LCL3 or LCL4 then it turns out that a single dozen bet is more closely related than other options, based on the synchronization of the cycles/streams at a given moment.
Therefore, by adding a second stream (Dozens alongside Lines) we can improve our survival rate:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/08/19/source5fc97.png)
Though it's still not perfect as certain bets are not available - and while testing under negative progression I encountered a permutation from hell comprising a series of least likely events (LLEs):
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/4NG4C3rB/Capture.png)
It lasted about 7 cycles before breaking the bank - but if it were just single stream lines then it would have lasted only 5 cycles!
We could certainly overcome this negative progression stress test by introducing an EC stream to bet on behalf of dozens and lines!
Incidentally, using negative progression it's only possible to break the bank on spin 1 - never at the higher cycle lengths. But we'll get more into that next time...
So far this reverse-engineering process is telling us that MLE is more important than LLE - since our lifetime is finite and all we want is to finish on a profit come retirement. Negative progression has also shown to be incompatible - positive being the more natural choice made for MLE. I'm sure they go hand-in-hand; many systems have probably failed because the right ideas were used with the wrong type of progression. Of course a flat-betting method may be possible - but I think testing first has to go through positive or negative before adding the zero back in and further refining it for flat-betting.
Interesting mate - In the past, i thought SUNRISE (7) and SUNSET (6) was pigeonhole for REPEATS and UNIQUE (opposites) numbersets played simultaneously using positional stream. Good to come across new ideas :thumbsup:
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 23, 09:39 PM 2019
Interesting mate - In the past, i thought SUNRISE (7) and SUNSET (6) was pigeonhole for REPEATS and UNIQUE (opposites) numbersets played simultaneously using positional stream. Good to come across new ideas :thumbsup:
Well, positions are just like order on a cycle-per-cycle basis. For example, with dozen cycles the order and position are equal counterparts of each other:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/08/24/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/01exr)
Red said that the repeat is more likely to happen on the starting partition = front runner = order 1.
11
121
1231
Hence he is using positions within cycles, but as order.
So the repeats stream may look like this:
1... bet 1
12... bet 1
123... bet 1
1231... win
He said when there's no repeat then there's more chance that it will be the opposite of the starting partition - but also on a different stream, such as EC.
So for uniques you might bet something like:
H... bet L
HL... bet L
HLH... bet L
So together it would be
Bet 1+L, bet 1+L, bet 1+L...
Perhaps the cat's cradle could lead on from there depending on what happens each cycle?
I don't know mate that looks too much like a guessing game to me i believe the only randomly drawn order you would not want to encounter is a perfectly drawn order from start to finish or vica verca in relation to your beginning sequence.
For example 123456 or 654321 drawn ramdomly in those orders exactly. Highly unlikely - and so in all other instances pigeonhole kicks in and a position must repeat. So unless you are drawn a sequence in perfect order never can your positional sequence ever reach 6 uniques numbers.
Well that's the basic takeaway i get from outside the box thread. I know Priy said something along the lines of as you go up and up with streets, splits etc the chances of the repeat coming on the lower half gets higher and higher but I feel there is more to it than just playing for a repeat. There is a remainder. How to make use of this?
A repeat in 1 stream means a unique in another stream. And a unique in 1 stream means another may repeat
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 03:30 AM 2019So unless you are drawn a sequence in perfect order never can your positional sequence ever reach 6 uniques numbers.
Hi mickavelli,
trying to follow your thougths:
so for example the sequence 4,6,2,3,5,1 (one out of 6! = 720) is for you as well
a sequence in perfect order ?
Quote from: Herby on Aug 26, 05:21 AM 2019so for example the sequence 4,6,2,3,5,1
Hi mate. Sorry not too sure i'm good at explaining. All I was saying was a positional stream can never go the distance without a Repeat - UNLESS , it comes out in perfect order in relation to the sequence you start with..
So if you start with for example 123456
Of course those 6 unique numbers can be drawn without a Repeat
For example the six numbers you have suggested 462351
But never can you get 6 unique positions UNLESS they are drawn in the perfectly same or perfectly reversed order of your starting sequence (123456)
So starting with seq. 123456 - your results 462351 in ordinal stream are 464516.
But playing for a Repeat is not the way!
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 06:01 AM 2019not too sure i'm good at explaining
Thanks for answering.
Your explaining is superb.
My problem is: the lower half I don't understand, the other half is for me too high and the remaining 27.3%
joke I don't get due to false preassumptions.
Starting with 462351 in ordinal stream I get 4645
66. Maybe my pencil was quicker than position checking. :embarrassed:
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 06:01 AM 2019But playing for a Repeat is not the way !
At positions 3 XOR 4 we have a probability for a repeat of 27.78 % (
0 not considered), but you don't like it ? >:D
Quote from: Herby on Aug 26, 07:08 AM 2019Starting with 462351 in ordinal stream I get 464566.
Sorry mate my bad.. Your spot on !
I'm not a math head mate just trying to look at things logically.
Wondering if there might be a way to capitalize on that neat little trick
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 03:30 AM 2019
I don't know mate that looks too much like a guessing game to me i believe the only randomly drawn order you would not want to encounter is a perfectly drawn order from start to finish or vica verca in relation to your beginning sequence.
For example 123456 or 654321 drawn ramdomly in those orders exactly. Highly unlikely - and so in all other instances pigeonhole kicks in and a position must repeat. So unless you are drawn a sequence in perfect order never can your positional sequence ever reach 6 uniques numbers.
Well that's the basic takeaway i get from outside the box thread. I know Priy said something along the lines of as you go up and up with streets, splits etc the chances of the repeat coming on the lower half gets higher and higher but I feel there is more to it than just playing for a repeat. There is a remainder. How to make use of this?
The positions stream is equally-likely and behaves exactly the same way as the standard stream. Standard cycles and position cycles of, say, lines or dozens both carry the same stats. So when we create custom streams we are simply creating additional random streams that have some kind of connection (based around pos/order 1 and the repeat) but no obvious exploit when used together. It's an interesting discovery, but it doesn't bring us closer to the HG.
Maybe entering the game with that stream at a specific betting point. Not sure mate
To me that positional stream could be seen as pigeonhole for repeats.
I had an idea a while ago of playing roulette like dice. Think of the game craps and rolling a 7.
Basically you can do it with any number.
For example 9
Partition 1,2,3,4....9
So.. (1,9) (2,8) (3,7) (4,6) (5)
Clearly the sum of all the PAIRS is 10...
So there are only 2 ways to have a length of 6 subset...
Either it contains a 5, or it doesn't..!!
If it does contain a 5...
There are only 5 more spaces in your subset to fill...
You can't possibly fill those 5 spaces without a pairing that sums to 10...
To me - that's pigeonhole for uniques!
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 26, 09:47 AM 2019The positions stream is equally-likely and behaves exactly the same way as the standard stream.
This is the thing.
Standard stream has the possibilty for the seq to go through every option only to end in a deadlock leaving us with 1 option - to guess which number repeats
Positional stream will repeat before the options are exhausted avoiding the deadlock each and every time
Maybe not with dozens, the likelihood of drawing 1,2,3 or 3,2,1 is there
But as you go up and up, the likelihood of drawing for example 12 numbers from 1-12 or 12-1 in perfect order is gone
Positions can still deadlock just as easy as the standard stream because they are equally-likely and have the same stats as the standard stream.
Anything is possible with lines or street positions - the same as normal lines or streets:
1234566 = cycle length 6 order 6.
Doesn't matter lines or positions of lines. They can both deadlock at exactly the same time too.
Perhaps you are getting mixed up with the position values on a repeat - or you are taking only the position value when there is a repeat? That would not be position cycles/repeats - but defining position cycles.
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 26, 05:31 PM 2019Perhaps you are getting mixed up with the position values on a repeat - or you are taking only the position value when there is a repeat? That would not be position cycles/repeats - but defining position cycles.
Yes, the values of the positions. Sorry mate i thought that part was pretty self explanitory using pigeonhole principle because how else are you going to use the positional stream - it guarantees a maximum length!
Meaning - It will be defined before a deadlock each and every time - Unless drawn in perfect order
I think if you were to play for a numberset of say 6 , the key might lie in constructing a game around a divisor of that number
Yes 6 uniques are possible in 1 stream, but impossible in another
Sorry I shouldn't say impossible - highly highly unlikely
Not sure if we are any closer to resolving this...
If I am right: you take the standard stream and only take the position value on a repeat, ignoring the position values when a standard unique shows? You then take the repeat position only and make another cycle from it?
Sure - cycles on the repeat position will show less deadlocks. There are many examples using the same concept that I have posted such as Quadruplets and Six Dozen Options. With those kind of cycles it's possible to reduce deadlocks to about CL11 - but it still doesn't result in edge and can still break the bank at CL11/12 even.
If you use a divisor then you simply reduce those 12 outcomes down to just a couple - similar to "Same" or "Different" or "Odd" or "Even"; like what standard cycles does it just reduces the permutations down to even lesser combinations. However, it doesn't result in any exploit or edge.
All im saying is either a randomly drawn number repeats, or a position repeats!
Its either or - both can not go to deadlock simultaneously.. How do you figure that?
Take 6 uniques (6,1,2,3,4,5)
Starting with seq 123456
6 is in position 6 > 612345
1 is in position 2 > 162345
2 is in position 3 > 216345
3 is in position 4 > 321645
4 is in position 5 > 532164
If the random stream is to stay unique our positional stream will repeat
If the positional stream stays unique the random stream will repeat.
So how can both result in a deadlock?
The length of 1 of these streams is limited
:-\
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 03:56 PM 2019(1,9) (2,8) (3,7) (4,6) (5)
Clearly the sum of all the PAIRS is 10...
So there are only 2 ways to have a length of 6 subset...
Hi mickavelli ,
thanks for your interesting posts. Most of them I can follow, but above:
"Clearly the sum of all the PAIRS is 10... " - still clear, but here I miss something:
"So there are only 2 ways to have a length of 6 subset..."
maybe a little example helps. :thumbsup:
No worries herby,
Either it contains a "5", or it doesn't !
So if your playing a game of 9 options on the layout and you have 6 uniques, either there will be a 5 and a pair that total 10, or no 5 and 2 pairs that total 10 - either way 1 side will have minimum 3 hits...
All i was meaning from it was, "5" could be a constant bet - to help split things into 2 sides
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 17, 07:46 PM 2019
I've finally glimpsed the HG and now know what form it takes!!! O0
This topic is dedicated to RouletteGhost... :thumbsup:
You are so full of shit
I don’t even attempt to understand what the hell you are saying
I feel sorry for the people that follow you.
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 09:48 PM 2019
Take 6 uniques (6,1,2,3,4,5)
Starting with seq 123456
6 is in position 6 > 612345
1 is in position 2 > 162345
2 is in position 3 > 216345
3 is in position 4 > 321645
4 is in position 5 > 532164
If the random stream is to stay unique our positional stream will repeat
If the positional stream stays unique the random stream will repeat.
So how can both result in a deadlock?
The length of 1 of these streams is limited
Well, dozens and quads certainly can deadlock at the same time.
As for lines - you are right - I can't seem to find an example of when both the standard stream + pos stream deadlock at the same time. However, I doubt this is due to any mechanism - but rather just a rare sequence - as there's no reason why it should not happen on lines and only quads, dozens and EC other than lower probability.
I found CL6 vs. CL5 quite easily:
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/TP47zbpq/cl6a.png)
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/HLxvvzsk/cl6b.png)
Several double deadlocks happened over the course of 1 million spins.
Here's all the Line Cycle deadlocks alongside Positions CL 4-6:
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 6
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 6
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
Nice falkor !
And so is that - ALL - of them?
10 in a Million, not too bad a result for such a small numberset don't you think?
Like I said , dozens etc the possibility is there for perfectly drawn orders in relation to your starting sequence, but as you go up and up to the lengths of streets, splits etc the likelihood decreases.
Some people argue 36 unique numbers in a row might be possible - but how about 36 unique numbers randomly drawn in perfect order?
The moment 1 number is out of place- pigeonhole principle wins
Thats what I takeaway from outside the box thread mate
Btw- do you have any 12-12 or 18-18 results??
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 27, 06:36 PM 2019
Several double deadlocks happened over the course of 1 million spins.
Here's all the Line Cycle deadlocks alongside Positions CL 4-6:
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 6
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 6
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 6
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 5
LCL6 4
LCL6 4
LCL6 6
(link:s://media0.giphy.com/media/13TC3PUkQrhTHi/giphy.gif?cid=4bf119fc260399163c77a05e30748b447b9e98adbf91f282&rid=giphy.gif)
Quote from: falkor2k15 on Aug 17, 07:46 PM 2019
Combine each spin of Dozen Cycles + Line Cycles... Did you know that while some paths are more dominant over others, 5 outcomes are completely locked out and never cross each other:
D2 + LCL1
D3 + LCL1
D3 + LCL2
DCL1 + L5
DCL1 + L6
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/wjx93nNS/paths.png)
Ok, my brain hurts, What is D2? does it mean Dozen 2 like numbers 13-24?
What is LCL1? and all the others?
Thanks :)
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 23, 09:39 PM 2019
Interesting mate - In the past, i thought SUNRISE (7) and SUNSET (6) was pigeonhole for REPEATS and UNIQUE (opposites) numbersets played simultaneously using positional stream. Good to come across new ideas :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 03:30 AM 2019
I don't know mate that looks too much like a guessing game to me i believe the only randomly drawn order you would not want to encounter is a perfectly drawn order from start to finish or vica verca in relation to your beginning sequence.
For example 123456 or 654321 drawn ramdomly in those orders exactly. Highly unlikely - and so in all other instances pigeonhole kicks in and a position must repeat. So unless you are drawn a sequence in perfect order never can your positional sequence ever reach 6 uniques numbers.
Well that's the basic takeaway i get from outside the box thread. I know Priy said something along the lines of as you go up and up with streets, splits etc the chances of the repeat coming on the lower half gets higher and higher but I feel there is more to it than just playing for a repeat. There is a remainder. How to make use of this?
👏👏👏👏
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 26, 09:35 PM 2019
All im saying is either a randomly drawn number repeats, or a position repeats!
Its either or - both can not go to deadlock simultaneously.. How do you figure that?
It’s crazy how the forum has so much information shared and ppl still don’t understand.
But yes definitely one approach that leads to new information.
The thing about this game is once you know one approach you can start creating more.
There are many different ways to win but you need an understanding...
Red/black
Low/high
Odd/even
Friends/Strangers
Uniques/repeats(pigeonhole)
Increasing/decreasing
Ap/no Ap
What did I just show you? Doesn’t look like much and that’s why things go unnoticed because we should know it and it gets overlooked......but I separated things!
Either it is or it isn’t!
You’re hot or you’re cold
I win or I lose
Hmmm this pairing sounds like a twin... what you think? 🤫🤔
There's been a lot of sensationalist stuff posted about cycles lately - perhaps in an attempt to trip up Steve - but he ain't buying any of it.
I think all the stuff being posted is to try to distract from this topic.
Cycles certainly do not provide us a connection between groups of numbers - for such dependency only happens within an individual cycle comprising spins, where the more appearances there are the more chance of a repeat on those uniques. However, a number cycle can also comprise units of smaller group cycles instead of spins. This provides us a grid or framework by which we can chart MLE events over multiple spins instead of a single spin. By betting for a target over a large cycle we can encounter smaller events along the way that either negate our need to tackle the larger cycle further or provide us a "boost" to continue on the outer ring and progress further in the world of MLE.
I think that is pretty much the only concept cycles has to offer us. Just like the repeat is dependent on the starting partition or uniques - the conclusion of a number cycle is also dependent on what happens with HL, Dozen, Line and Street cycles along the way - not to mention other events that are more complicated to track, such as quads, 2nd repeats, outer cycles, vdw, friends, erdos, etc. This was demonstrated by Permutation of Desolation, which showed that in order for CL20-25 to happen requires MLE event(s) on the smaller groups; in other words: there cannot be deadlocks on dozens, lines, streets and still end up with an open number cycle all the way to spin 20+!
In terms of "line cycles" + "line position cycles" we may not encounter a double deadlock but then we get deadlocked instead trying to bet on CL3-4 for both simultaneously. Therefore, positions is not the way forward either.
When it comes to targeting the small MLEs (Dozens, Lines etc.) inside the big (dependent) MLE (number cycles) as a positive progression, how we "bet on behalf" is crucial to our success at progressing through the stages. Besides Permutation of Desolation, another old experiment of mine known as Mist Trap showed that if 18 unique numbers appeared in exclusively the first half of the board then they can be covered using a single unit on low instead of up to 18 units for the up and coming repeat (gets closer to 100% each spin); what's more: since numbers tend to be less dispersed (or you choose to only continue with games that are concentrated) then the chances of a repeat on HL, Dozens, Lines, Streets increases way in advance of the number cycle closure itself based on the aforesaid dependency.
For the next stage of reverse-engineering we will work backwards from CL25 to CL24 to CL3, etc.
Here I have an example of primary MLE targets per number cycle that are easy to track - highlighting the changing ratios as you progress through different number cycles. The higher the number cycle the closer we get to the repeat.
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/KvsXmppB/Capture.png)
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/4ygNxBJb/Untitled.png)
Now when it comes to betting on behalf of the primary targets we need to analyse the cost of covering the uniques (in the early part of a cycle) and the repeats (in the later course of a cycle) as well as how much coverage we get for our overlapping (dependent) bets.
Lastly, perhaps deadlocks or counting smaller cycle lengths can somehow indicate whether we should continue the current number cycle or abort it.
Makes sense seperating things and creating new pairs
For instance - you can create 6 new double streets by simply combining a high street with a low street played at half a unit each. The return remains at 5/1 but - the characteristics within these newly created double streets change
Quote from: mickavelli on Sep 13, 10:55 PM 2019the characteristics within these newly created double streets change
Can you please give an example of changing characteristics.
Most people believe there are
9 red odd numbers + 9 red evens and
9 black odd numbers + 9 black evens
But there simply isn't
First step would be to observe what makes up the 12 streets
An example would be the first 2 streets at the top of the table that most would consider as Line 1...
The 1st street of Line 1 has
2 Red Odd, 1 Black Even
The 2nd street has
2 Black Even, 1 Red Odd
You can observe the other 5 they all remain chaotic
But if you were to create your own Lines combining the first street from Low and the first street from High and continue in this manner.
Watch what happens
Mick,
First I thought you was interested in custom lines that combine both high and low at the same time, and you mentioned there are changing characteristics.
Now you seem interested in Red/Odd vs. Black/Even because you mentioned they aren't equal.
If it's the latter that's of more interest then why not analyse those two ECs under normal Line cycles? Why would you be interested in analysing them under custom Line cycles made up of streets? Isn't that a bit complicated if it's just a simple pattern you are looking for?
And I'm still not sure what is meant by "characteristic" in this context?
Line 1
BE x 3
RO x 3
Line 2
RO x 2
RE x 1
BO x 1
BE x 2
Line 3
BO x 3
RE x 3
Line 4
BE x 3
RO x 3
Line 5
RO x 2
RE x 1
BO x 1
BE x 2
Line 6
BO x 3
RE x 3
Custom Line 1
BE x 2
RO x 4
Custom Line 2
BE x 4
RO x 1
RE x 1
Custom Line 3
RO x 4
BE x 2
Custom Line 4
BE x 2
RE x 2
BO x 2
Custom Line 5
BO x 4
RE x 2
Custom Line 6
RE x 4
BO x 2
OK, I guess we get more x4s in the custom lines?
Any pattern?
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/mDYM7LmM/custom.png)
1 2 RO - 1 BE
2 2 BE - 1 RO
3 2 RO - 1 BE
4 1 BE - 1 BO - 1 RE
5 2 BO - 1 RE
6 2 RE - 1 BO
7 2 RO - 1 BE
8 2 BE - 1 RO
9 2 RO - 1 BE
10 1 BE - 1 BO - 1 RE
11 2 BO - 1 RE
12 2 RE - 1 BO
Just saying, it's possible to create your own partitions, highs lows etc that's all
Mick,
I've created many custom partitions over the years and this one appears no different to the others:
*Each spin is independent of the previous: custom line and EC
*The repeat is dependent on the starting partition - but we don't know when the repeat is going to happen.
*Any kind of betting scheme results in break even.
When you said "watch what happens" what was it you are expecting me to notice exactly?
Is it something to do with the variance and are you suspecting the custom EC Quads to play "catch up" based on the key-frames of the custom lines cycles framework?
Quote from: mickavelli on Aug 27, 02:45 PM 2019
No worries herby,
Either it contains a "5", or it doesn't !
So if your playing a game of 9 options on the layout and you have 6 uniques, either there will be a 5 and a pair that total 10, or no 5 and 2 pairs that total 10 - either way 1 side will have minimum 3 hits...
All i was meaning from it was, "5" could be a constant bet - to help split things into 2 sides
A good way to look at things differently. :thumbsup:
Getting back on track and building upon Permutation Of Desolation:
If we wanted to cover number repeats from CL1 to CL25 then it would cost us way beyond the table limits using a negative progression.
However, from NCL20-25 there has to be at least one Dozen CL2 and at least four High-Low CL2s! But there is no minimum on High-Low CL1s...
For NCL16-25 there has to be at least one DCL1 or DCL2 and at least one HCL2.
For NCL14-25 there has to be at least one HCL2.
For SCL12 there has to be at least one DCL2 and at least 3 HCL2s
For SCL11 there has to be at least one HCL1 and HCL2
For SCL9-10 there has to be at least one HCL2
Therefore, it's much cheaper to bet for all Dozen CL2s or all HCL2s during a street or number cycle and a guarantee a win before the street/number cycle reaches a deadlock or extreme cycle length.
If NCL1-25 was represented by a single bet that covered 5000 numbers then there would be no opportunity to avoid paying the maximum cost for whatever reward. However, since CL1-25 represents an MLE target over multiple spins then it provides us some kind of advantage and is dependent on the results of previous cycles occurring on the lesser groups - but that's all we can say right now as it's not yet fully understood - requiring further reverse-engineering.
I really don't understand you, Falkor.
Do us all a favor - take 3 to 6 spins and see what you can do with that before you go on endless simulations.
The point about this approach is that you need to play for a dynamic MLE target that will end in profit without breaking the bank. With only 3-6 spins we are very limited with what we can do - even just concentrating on dozen cycles there's only so many ways to play yet never escaping break even. So to reiterate: this is about playing a dynamic set through till the end based on a moving MLE target.
If there exists proof on why Roulette cannot be beaten then it must include "X table limits" in the description of that proof, so with this reverse-engineering method we will either find the HG or we will at least be able to ascertain the minimal table limits needed to beat Roulette; either answer would be a major breakthrough for me - but in no way can 3-6 spins tell us anything meaningful about this game.
Ok, good luck.
Quote from: Blueprint on Oct 04, 09:17 AM 2019
I really don't understand you, Falkor.
Do us all a favor - take 3 to 6 spins and see what you can do with that before you go on endless simulations.
What can you do with 3-6 spins? Will you be expanding on that to actually help Falkor out?
Nope.
Quote from: Blueprint on Oct 05, 09:01 AM 2019
Nope.
So your intention isn’t to help, why bother posting? Just wondering... :question:
I've helped more than you realize but when people don't want to hear it I need to move on.
What about his response shows someone who wants help?
He will continue with endless simulations regardless.
Quote from: Blueprint on Oct 04, 09:17 AM 2019
I really don't understand you, Falkor.
Do us all a favor - take 3 to 6 spins and see what you can do with that before you go on endless simulations.
What if we will reach 7th spin?
Quote from: Blueprint on Oct 05, 09:40 AM 2019
I've helped more than you realize but when people don't want to hear it I need to move on.
People do want to hear it! But people also want some substance, actual content to take away and think about.
Posting things like "see what you can do in 3 - 6 spins" doesn't help anyone.
Quote from: redhot on Oct 05, 12:53 PM 2019
People do want to hear it! But people also want some substance, actual content to take away and think about.
Posting things like "see what you can do in 3 - 6 spins" doesn't help anyone.
Thank you for making my point exactly.
Keep on running simulations!
Quote from: Blueprint on Oct 05, 01:06 PM 2019
Thank you for making my point exactly.
Keep on running simulations!
It really doesn't help anyone though, not sure what point you're making? :question:
You're implying your post is some really helpful cryptic clue, if only people were willing to listen!
Hey look, Donik7777 is listening! He wants to hear it, he's asked you a question, are you going to help?
Following the reverse-engineering process, here's what my analysis is telling us:
--If the lesser groups repeat early within an open number cycle then the number cycle is likely to repeat late.
--If the lesser groups repeat late within an open number cycle then the number is likely to repeat early.
Here's a specific example:
The most common number cycle is NCL6 = early repeat.
CL6 occurs more in the following scenario:
Spin 1: HCL2+ and DCL2+ and LCL2+ and SCL2+
Spin 2: DCL3+ and LCL3+ and SCL3+
Spin 6: NCL6
Therefore, the number cycle is more likely to repeat when the 1s are more evenly spread as opposed to being confined to the space of just a halve, dozen or line. Here the numbers were spread over 6 different streets prior to the repeat on spin 6 (technically spin 7):
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/0y84dY9r/ncl6.png)
(link:s://i.postimg.cc/cLpnGm6L/spread.png)
All within 6 spins! :wink:
Is guessing game or try to predict?
Before Random Thoughts was ever thought of, the most amazing topic on this forum just has to be - no, not Pattern Breaker - but Mist Trap!
The Mist Trap system was too complicated to tweak and maintain, but it left us with a rather interesting paradox:
If an extreme Number Cycle takes a certain sequence - or the lesser groups appear in a certain sequence - then the number cycle is guaranteed a win without breaking the bank thanks to an exploit of the carpet design. This is achieved through betting on behalf with a net as a cheap investment.
For example: if a number cycle appeared in actual number sequence then this is how we would bet (based on a generic template that has nothing to do with predicting):
1: Bet Low...
2: +1! Bet Low...
3: +2! Bet Low...
4 +3! Bet Low...
5 +4! Bet Low...
6 +5! Bet Low...
7 +6! Bet Low...
8 +7! Bet Low...
9 +8! Bet Low...
10 +9! Bet Low...
11 +10! Bet Low...
12 +11! Bet Low...
13 +12! Bet Low...
14 +13! Bet Low...
15 +14! Bet Low...
16 +15! Bet Low...
17 +16! Bet Low...
18 +17! Bet Low...
19 +16. Bet Low + Line 4
20 +19! Bet Low + Line 4
21 +22! Bet Low + Line 4
22 +25! Bet Low + Line 4
23 +28! Bet Low + Line 4
24 +31! Bet Low + Line 4
25 +29. Bet Low + Line 4 + Line 5
25 +31!
This means that if we get certain repetitions of Low and Lines (etc). without a repeat on the numbers then we can parachute towards the numbers.
This also means that if we get a number cycle in a certain sequence tailored to the carpet layout then we can exploit it.
Let's say we get another sequence of numbers that are not tailored to the carpet layout then how should we play them? Answer: perhaps the positions counterpart stream (or another custom stream of some kind) will be better tailored to the carpet layout than the official stream(s) on that occasion.
Inside the Double Repeat: the last concept to explore in preparation for the final practical...
When we have several streams, such as halves, dozens, lines, streets and numbers, not only will they often repeat at the same time - but they will also increase their cycle length at the same time = double+ simultaneous unique or repeat.
Let's say we want to bet for Dozens CL2-3:
1... bet 2+3
We might select that simple MLE bet when most of the sleeping numbers are in dozens 2-3 in the hope of a simultaneous unique.
12... bet 1+13
We might want to actually bet the numbers 1 and 13 instead of dozens 1 and 2 if they were the first 2 numbers spun since we might get a repeat on both the dozens and numbers at the same time.
Both the above examples follow MLE for both uniques and repeats - but with a cheaper investment by knowing when to switch between dozen bets and number bets.
In actuality we would parachute from playing dozens-EC to Dozens-Lines to Lines-Streets to Streets-Numbers throughout the duration of an open number cycle. It would probably be better to hedge several of them at the same time. If we lose a dozen cycle or line cycle (etc) and the number cycle remains open we can still interchange the unique numbers or sleepers with the unique lines or sleeping lines depending on whether we have passed the average cycle length or not (as per previous discussion).
Nice Falkor!
Please try in practical mode put cheap investment. Pri said need at least 3-4 streams for get edge.
Cheers