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I noticed that nobody mentioned this technique, so here it goes:

Let's take the famous martingale progression playing even chances (R/B)

Playing Red:

We play 6 bets in one line with 1 unit:

R B R R B B ( +1  -1  +1  +1 -1 -1 )

Next we play only the ones that lost:

R B R R B B
0 R 0 0  B R ( 0  +2  0  0 -2  +2)

Next we play the last one that lost:

R B R R B B ( +1  -1  +1  +1 -1 -1 )
0 R 0 0  B R ( 0  +2    0    0  -2  +2)
0 0 0 0  R 0   ( 0  0    0    0  +4   0)

Total win for this session : +6 units.

Advantages of this smart martingale:
You are always Flatbeting on every level of the progression, you are never putting huge amounts to win 1 unit.

There are ways to decrease the number of losses and increase the number of winning sessions.

(link:s://i.ibb.co/v4gYJwk/IMG-20191118-170711.png)

Hint: game theory, Min max concept.

Guys, I will appreciate if you rate my post, so I will post more advanced concepts, thank you.

Quote from: Kali49 on Nov 18, 11:09 AM 2019


Advantages of this smart martingale:
You are always Flatbeting on every level of the progression
(link:s://i.ibb.co/v4gYJwk/IMG-20191118-170711.png)

Cool but what you said isn’t true

No you aren’t always fltabetting on every level of the progression

Quote from: Roulettebeater on Nov 18, 12:39 PM 2019
Cool but what you said isn’t true

No you aren’t always fltabetting on every level of the progression

Thanks for replying  :smile:

This concept isn't limited to 6 bets for a session, you can bet 36 bets:
Line 1 : flat bet 36 spins with 1 unit.
Line 2 : flat bet only lost bets of line 1 with 2 units.
Line 3 : flat bet only the lost bets of line 2 with 4 units.

To a certain extent, you are right.
However using this techniques you can so things that weren't available using the traditional approach.

Hi Kali49, so it looks like you're playing a 'random vs random' kind of bet selection, correct? You're betting that the same sequence won't show up repeatedly.

It's an interesting twist on the usual method.

Quote from: Joe on Nov 18, 02:36 PM 2019
Hi Kali49, so it looks like you're playing a 'random vs random' kind of bet selection, correct? You're betting that the same sequence won't show up repeatedly.

It's an interesting twist on the usual method.

Notice if I lost the last bet, I would have been down just -2 units, If I win the last bet I win 6 units pure profit.
Awesome huh don't you think.

Mixing flat betting approach with negative or positive progression.

Note: Every strategy or concept I share here, will also be published in my humble corner of the internet the link is in my signature.
I will share here first then copy the article into my personal blog-forum.
Steve I will refer to this forum from my blog, I hope that's ok with you.

The Smart martingale goes very softly on your bankroll as opposed to the usual martingale.

I am a Haskell framework developer, I
will write a simple program to play using this approach and share it here for you guys.

Thank you, an interesting concept :thumbsup:
Which LOSE group are you capable of overcoming this type of bet?
And please, create a slightly detailed example for those who are not familiar with game theory.

Thanks. That is a very good idea.
I think playing this progression to break even would be even more safe.

Just imagine that at each level you take the total sum of your six bets, and if you are down just by a few unit (example 3 units) you try to brake even on the next level with 3 times 1 unit chips.
If you lose all 3 units at the second level you try to recover on the third level by 6 times 1 units just like on the first level.
If you fail to recover and you go below minus 6 units then you can either increase your bets to break even on the next level or you can extend the bets to more than 6 times, or you can combine the two depending on your play style.

If you utilize this progression with even chance pattern/trend betting knowing that a pattern can last for long streaks you get a good and safe winning system.

At one time members thought I was the progression master. 
I did have fun with them.
I have posted at least 30 different progressions.  And there were many others that I never posted because they all ended up at the same place.
I realized that there's always a sequence that can ruin you.  Maybe you won't ever see it in your lifetime or maybe it will show up the very next time you sit down to play.
I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just suggesting that you do a lot of testing on this progression before you decide to swim out too far from shore.

Quote from: GLC on Nov 18, 09:52 PM 2019
At one time members thought I was the progression master. 
I did have fun with them.
I have posted at least 30 different progressions.  And there were many others that I never posted because they all ended up at the same place.
I realized that there's always a sequence that can ruin you.  Maybe you won't ever see it in your lifetime or maybe it will show up the very next time you sit down to play.
I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just suggesting that you do a lot of testing on this progression before you decide to swim out too far from shore.

Thank you for the warning, always play responsibly.

I Like this progression because it's not aggressive, and it never put me on a situation where I have to bet huge amounts of units to win one, it follows the statistical distribution by the letter, so the worst thing that could happen is  breaking even especially if you play large sessions.

Quote from: Person S on Nov 18, 05:42 PM 2019
Thank you, an interesting concept :thumbsup:
Which LOSE group are you capable of overcoming this type of bet?
And please, create a slightly detailed example for those who are not familiar with game theory.

I will explain and give more examples once I finish a few commitments :) .

Quote from: Person S on Nov 18, 05:42 PM 2019
.. create a slightly detailed example for those who are not familiar with game theory.

Start here Wikipedia :
Minimax (sometimes MinMax, MM[1] or saddle point[2]) is a decision rule used in artificial intelligence, decision theory, game theory, statistics and philosophy for minimizing the possible loss for a worst case (maximum loss) scenario. When dealing with gains, it is referred to as "maximin"â€"to maximize the minimum gain. Originally formulated for two-player zero-sum game theory, covering both the cases where players take alternate moves and those where they make simultaneous moves, it has also been extended to more complex games and to general decision-making in the presence of uncertainty.

Or here :
In game theory, minimax is a decision rule used to minimize the worst-case potential loss; in other words, a player considers all of the best opponent responses to his strategies, and selects the strategy such that the opponent's best strategy gives a payoff as large as possible.

Hi Guys.I'm curious Glc's opinion of dr Talos  progression?I'm glad you're here.

hey guys if you pay attention to the example I started with, 6 spins * 3 lines = 18 spins total, in which 9 spins should be Red, Smart Progression uses only 6 red spins to complete the session.

So even if black was the dominant color, we only need 6 out of the theoretical 9 Reds to finish the session. And that is lovely.

It seems I'm starting to understand.
We have 1 line, and we need to bet until it plays (it depends on the length that we choose).
Then we play game 2 and place bets on line 2 at the points where the loss occurred. It looks like a virtual game ...
I think the problem is that we do not know at what points 6 red will appear.
Are rates on line 2-3 also flat or do they need to be increased by 1 unit?

I wanted to make sure that I understood correctly. I will play for R / B.
1.RRRRRR
   + - + - + -
2.RBBRRB
   0 - 0 - 0 -
3.RRRRBB
   0 - 0 +0+
Everything is flat bet.

Quote from: Person S on Nov 19, 03:43 PM 2019
I wanted to make sure that I understood correctly. I will play for R / B.
1.RRRRRR
   + - + - + -
2.RBBRRB
   0 - 0 - 0 -
3.RRRRBB
   0 - 0 +0+
Everything is flat bet.

We are going to mix flat betting with a progression.

You only play red or you only play black.

Let's play red with your example:

1- RRRRRR (+1+1+1+1+1+1) +6
Session completed in 1 line.

Let's play black with your example:

1- RRRRRR (-1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1)
When this happens don't  move to the next line yet extend Line 1 to 12 spins or more flat 1  unit, till you almost breakeven. Then move to Line 2.

1- RRRRRR         RBBRRB
    (-1-1-1-1-1-1  -1 +1 +1 -1 -1 +1 )

Hi Kali, thanks for your explanation. It is very interesting.
In this example:

1- RRRRRR RBBRRB
    (-1-1-1-1-1-1 -1 +1 +1 -1 -1 +1)

Result is -6, Still not close to balance, would we play another 6 more spins in the 1 line?

What would be the balance to be achieved before moving to line 2?

Thanks!!!

If you play for black it will kill.
1 line - 9
2 line (bet 2 units on L) - 13
total minus 21 units.
There is a 3 line, but it does not change anything.
As someone wrote R / B alternation, it is better than betting on 1 color.

Quote from: Person S on Nov 19, 06:01 PM 2019
If you play for black it will kill.
1 line - 9
2 line (bet 2 units on L) - 13
total minus 21 units.
There is a 3 line, but it does not change anything.
As someone wrote R / B alternation, it is better than betting on 1 color.

That is why I recommend larger sessions to avoid the fluctuations that exists in short term permutations.

It is preferable to play same as last color or different than last color.

I said just red or just black and I used 6  spin sessions to ease explanation.

Quote from: quos on Nov 19, 05:31 PM 2019
Hi Kali, thanks for your explanation. It is very interesting.
In this example:

1- RRRRRR RBBRRB
    (-1-1-1-1-1-1 -1 +1 +1 -1 -1 +1)

Result is -6, Still not close to balance, would we play another 6 more spins in the 1 line?

What would be the balance to be achieved before moving to line 2?

Thanks!!!

If you look a little deeper you will start to see probability distribution taking place equally within your session, take notes and bet accordingly.

Say for 20 spins in Line 1 you get around 40 % Red 60 % black then move to Line 2.

Smart progression is even better if your Betselection is a smart one as well.

To understand the concept behind this method think in terms of "utility functions".
If I am expecting 50% probability of delivery say 9 red numbers in 18 spins,
and my method only needs 30% delivery to profit. That is a good use of the utility function concept.

More on the expected utility function in game theory here :
link:s://youtu.be/qwN55kzmojM

Demonstration Session:
Playing Six spin Sessions with same as last bet selection:

Numbers were:

(link:s://i.ibb.co/bQpjWQm/IMG-20191120-070434.png)

Session graph :

(link:s://i.ibb.co/GtTFm2h/IMG-20191120-070458.png)

+1
-1. +2
+1
+1
+1
-1. +2

+6 units

Hey Kali ! I think I am understanding but I have some doubts regarding line 2.

spin    R/B          Result
1          Black                           next spin we bet Black
2          Black      +1                 next spin we bet Black
3          Red         -1                 next spin we bet Red
4          Red         +1                next spin we bet Red
5          Red         +1                next spin we bet Red
6          Red         +1                next spin we bet Red
7          Black       -1                Here we have 4 hits and 2 failures. Your method only needs 30% delivery to profit and in this case
                                                we have 66%. It is right?

Here and at this moment is where I have doubts. At first I thought we would have to play another 6 spins and only bet on spins 2 and 6 of line 2, but from what I see it is not so. you only play 2 more spins (spins 8 and 9). It is right?

for spin 8 (belonging to line 2) do you play the same color as in spin 7? that is, would we bet on black?
for spin 9 (belonging to line 2) do you play the same color as in spin 8? that is, would we bet on black?

Thanks in advance!!!

Quote from: quos on Nov 20, 05:14 AM 2019
Hey Kali ! I think I am understanding but I have some doubts regarding line 2.

spin    R/B          Result
1          Black                           next spin we bet Black
2          Black      +1                 next spin we bet Black
3          Red         -1                 next spin we bet Red
4          Red         +1                next spin we bet Red
5          Red         +1                next spin we bet Red
6          Red         +1                next spin we bet Red
7          Black       -1                Here we have 4 hits and 2 failures. Your method only needs 30% delivery to profit and in this case
                                                we have 66%. It is right?

Here and at this moment is where I have doubts. At first I thought we would have to play another 6 spins and only bet on spins 2 and 6 of line 2, but from what I see it is not so. you only play 2 more spins (spins 8 and 9). It is right?

for spin 8 (belonging to line 2) do you play the same color as in spin 7? that is, would we bet on black?
for spin 9 (belonging to line 2) do you play the same color as in spin 8? that is, would we bet on black?

Thanks in advance!!!

There are three things you can do once you complete Line 1:

1- you can end the session right there in Line 1 and call it a winning session, lock in the profit.

2- you can move to Line 2 and play six more spins and only bet the corresponding two bets that lost in Line 1.

3- just play two more spins that are needed to complete the session without playing 0 bets on bets that won on line 1.

Quote from: Kali49 on Nov 20, 04:01 PM 2019

2- you can move to Line 2 and play six more spins and only bet the corresponding two bets that lost in Line 1.

3- just play two more spins that are needed to complete the session without playing 0 bets on bets that won on line 1.

Thanks, I wonder what is the likelihood that method 2 will be better than 3?

Quote from: Person S on Nov 20, 07:18 PM 2019
Thanks, I wonder what is the likelihood that method 2 will be better than 3?

That's where game theory comes into play.

Well, I say intuitively, not knowing the answer that the game theory will give that method 2 should be better.
But according to probability theory, method 2 and method 3 are equal.

I also noticed that sometimes 3 lines are not enough to complete the game, for example
1 LLLWLL
2 LLW0WL
3 LL000W
probably it makes sense to add more lines ...

You can also get under the LLLLLLL strip in one of the columns.
1 LLWLL
2 LL0WW
3 LL000
4 L
5 L ..... etc

Quote from: Person S on Nov 21, 10:35 AM 2019
I also noticed that sometimes 3 lines are not enough to complete the game, for example
1 LLLWLL
2 LLW0WL
3 LL000W
probably it makes sense to add more lines ...

Hi Person, in your example, at least you should have played another 6 more spins. According to Kali, it must be close to equilibrium before moving on to line 2.
40% -60%. if you bet on red, before moving on to line 2, the number of reds must be close to at least 40%. Although I think Kali said his system wins with 30%. in your example you only have 16,6%

Regards!!

Quote from: quos on Nov 21, 10:43 AM 2019
Hi Person, in your example, at least you should have played another 6 more spins. According to Kali, it must be close to equilibrium before moving on to line 2.
40% -60%. if you bet on red, before moving on to line 2, the number of reds must be close to at least 40%. Although I think Kali said his system wins with 30%. in your example you only have 16,6%

Regards!!

Hi, but as we understand it, it will not always be so perfect, on the screen is an example of how much red and black can hit.

Quote from: GLC on Nov 18, 09:52 PM 2019
At one time members thought I was the progression master. 
I did have fun with them.
I have posted at least 30 different progressions.  And there were many others that I never posted because they all ended up at the same place.
I realized that there's always a sequence that can ruin you.  Maybe you won't ever see it in your lifetime or maybe it will show up the very next time you sit down to play.
I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just suggesting that you do a lot of testing on this progression before you decide to swim out too far from shore.

It seems u have lost ur faith in progressive systems !

Btw, you look like George Clooney !!!  :twisted: :twisted:

Quote from: quos on Nov 21, 10:43 AM 2019
Hi Person, in your example, at least you should have played another 6 more spins. According to Kali, it must be close to equilibrium before moving on to line 2.
40% -60%. if you bet on red, before moving on to line 2, the number of reds must be close to at least 40%. Although I think Kali said his system wins with 30%. in your example you only have 16,6%

Regards!!

Can you prove that this system wins with 30% ?

Give us facts, show us numbers ?!?

yes it may be FTL will show a plus, but I saw R / B bands lasting 20-22 times. If we bet all the time for the previous one, that would be minus 22 as well.
Need a creative method

Okay,

i have found this sequence which seems to challenge your system

MISS   MISS   MISS   HIT       MISS   HIT
MISS   MISS   HIT       MISS   HIT       HIT
MISS   HIT     MISS   MISS   MISS   MISS
MISS   MISS   MISS   HIT    MISS   MISS
MISS   MISS   MISS   MISS   HIT       MISS
MISS   MISS   HIT       MISS   HIT       HIT
MISS   MISS   MISS   HIT    MISS   MISS
HIT       MISS   HIT    HIT       HIT    MISS

can you tell us how would you overcome it?

RB, the easiest way to glue the first 6 spins and the next 6 spins - this will be the first line.
Instead of 6 games, you play 12.
Etc

Quote from: Person S on Nov 21, 02:16 PM 2019
RB, the easiest way to glue the first 6 spins and the next 6 spins - this will be the first line.
Instead of 6 games, you play 12.
Etc

Line1 |   MISS   MISS    MISS    HIT      MISS    HIT     MISS   MISS   HIT    MISS     HIT      HIT
Line2 |   MISS   HIT     MISS    MISS     MISS    MISS    MISS   MISS   MISS   HIT      MISS     MISS
Line3 |   MISS   MISS    MISS    MISS     HIT     MISS    MISS   MISS   HIT    MISS     HIT      HIT
Line4 |   MISS   MISS    MISS    HIT      MISS    MISS    HIT    MISS   HIT    HIT      HIT      MISS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LINE1>    -1    -1       -1     +1        -1      +1      -1     -1     +1     -1       +1       +1
LINE2>    -2    +2       -2               -2              -2     -2            +2       
LINE3>    -4             -4               +4              -4     -4                             
LINE4>    -8             -8                               +8     -8

TOTAL after 48 spins: -36!!!!


It is clear that this will not succeed, in addition to smart progression, you need a smart bet, as Kali wrote.
Well, by the way, you can make the string even bigger.
See when you published the first version, where there were 6 spins in rows.
In line 5, you already had minus 50 if I'm not mistaken ... when they began to play 12, the loss decreased
Therefore, you need to somehow vary the length. IMHO

PERSON your understanding is accurate.

Here is a basic bet selection, I wouldn't call it a smart one, but it delivers satisfying results.

Last two spins : RR
Bet : 2 units on Red.

Last two spins : RB
Bet : 1 unit on Red.

Last two spins : BR
Bet : 1 unit on Black.

Last two spins : BB
Bet : 2 units on Black.

This Betselection has smart progression integrated within it.

I encourage you try to integrate smart progression to your favorite bet selection strategy.

I will move to different concepts.

This post is complete.
:thumbsup:

Quote from: Kali49 on Nov 21, 04:39 PM 2019
PERSON your understanding is accurate.

Here is a basic bet selection, I wouldn't call it a smart one, but it delivers satisfying results.

Last two spins : RR
Bet : 2 units on Red.

Last two spins : RB
Bet : 1 unit on Red.

Last two spins : BR
Bet : 1 unit on Black.

Last two spins : BB
Bet : 2 units on Black.

This Betselection has smart progression integrated within it.

I encourage you try to integrate smart progression to your favorite bet selection strategy.

hi guys, glad to be here.

i started playing roulette by fun a few weeks ago and lets say that i had that beguinners luck with martingale until i blew it all.

so i started digging and investigating all different kinds of strategies and money management.

i will try the above progression method, so far im impressed with it. looks so simple but quite genius too.

tested on live account using small bets and made 25% in 10 minutes, got 10 reds in a row thats why i made that % so fast.

any advice on using the above since you have more spins than me on it?

thanks for sharing man, cheers from Portugal