One way of understanding roulette is like this:
Say you have your system, with your triggers and bet selection. It all makes sense to you. You think you see patterns.
So then you place your bets.
What happens next?? Everything changes. The next spin is totally random. So the pattern you thought you saw is now totally messed up (unless you think mistake basic probability for patterns).
This happens on every new spin.
So you're stuck at 1 in 37.
Thats why almost every system is useless. Yet there are mindless drones following false prophets like turbo, who haven't yet understood the basics. As long as there are people who don't think clearly, attention- seekers will always have a fresh audience.
You cant reason with someone who isnt interested in the truth. Dumb people allow themselves to be misled.
If you aren't dumb, you can still be misled for a short time before you learn better. The truly dumb people spend years repeating the same circles, despite the truth slapping them in the face.
You cannot beat roulette without exploiting cause and effect. Without exploiting cause effect, your bets are random. Repeaters is not a cause. It's the result of normal probability, as useless as saying there will be about even reds and blacks.
Your time is valuable. Dont waste it chasing fairies.
That said all bets are luck then. (even if you have detected a bias
in the wheel there is no guarantee the ball will fall in that sector)
Then there are the other unknowns, like dealer
change, ball change rotor speed ball rotations.
Time of day, gravity...I though it was said a super fast
rotor cannot bet tracked.
It's nothing short of a miracle a bettor wins anything.
Quote from: Steve on Dec 30, 06:16 PM 2019The next spin is totally random. So the pattern you thought you saw is now totally messed up (unless you think mistake basic probability for patterns)
Yes, this is true, I thought there was some kind of "advantage" betting repeting sectors on the Wheel, like "hotzone" and now "Xpander", but then? I ran total random spins (RNG) and got the exact same winrate, which was about 70%....so? Im rather satisfied with a 70% consistent winrate from a Random (Or Live-bet) ?
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 30, 06:30 PM 2019
That said all bets are luck then. (even if you have detected a bias
in the wheel there is no guarantee the ball will fall in that sector)
No, because bias means bets based on cause and effect.
Proper bias analysis is more than statistical study. You should also observe spins and the wheel for typical clues for bias.
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Dec 30, 06:46 PM 2019Then there are the other unknowns, like dealer
change, ball change rotor speed ball rotations.
Time of day, gravity...I though it was said a super fast
rotor cannot bet tracked.
It's nothing short of a miracle a bettor wins anything.
Those are again cause and effect. And its really quite easy to beat wheels. The problem has always been avoiding detection.
Quote from: ignatus on Dec 30, 06:51 PM 2019I thought there was some kind of "advantage" betting repeting sectors on the Wheel, like "hotzone" and now "Xpander", but then?
Not unless there is bias. Dont confuse normal variance with genuine bias.
Ok Steve. I agree with all your points.
Thing is, some, if not most people have no time or patience to dive into the physical wheel-reading. Well I don't have time to go to casinos and try.
So here is a question: I'd want to be at home and practice. Which wheel should I buy, that would ressemble what most other wheels look like, behavior-wise?
You say it's easy to increase accuracy. Let's say I'd be average good at learning. How long (hours, months) would it take to "have an edge"?
3: is allowing bets after ball release a common thing or growing rare?
Thanks!
Quote from: Steve on Dec 30, 06:16 PM 2019
One way of understanding roulette is like this:
Say you have your system, with your triggers and bet selection. It all makes sense to you. You think you see patterns.
So then you place your bets.
What happens next?? Everything changes. The next spin is totally random. So the pattern you thought you saw is now totally messed up (unless you think mistake basic probability for patterns).
This happens on every new spin.
So you're stuck at 1 in 37.
Thats why almost every system is useless. Yet there are mindless drones following false prophets like turbo, who haven't yet understood the basics. As long as there are people who don't think clearly, attention- seekers will always have a fresh audience.
You cant reason with someone who isnt interested in the truth. Dumb people allow themselves to be misled.
If you aren't dumb, you can still be misled for a short time before you learn better. The truly dumb people spend years repeating the same circles, despite the truth slapping them in the face.
You cannot beat roulette without exploiting cause and effect. Without exploiting cause effect, your bets are random. Repeaters is not a cause. It's the result of normal probability, as useless as saying there will be about even reds and blacks.
Your time is valuable. Dont waste it chasing fairies.
I agree 100%. Anyone wasting their time creating or looking for a system while not understanding what random is needs to re-evaluate their approach. There are many members on this forum researching systems, but hardly anyone talking about what 'Random' actually is.
If the method you choose is not increasing the accuracy of the prediction then you are just guessing. Repeaters do not work. Most systems being used are either not playable in real life situations or are built on delusions.
Even if the law of thirds was real, most system players wouldn't know how to take advantage of it. Most people do not understand what 'random' is, so they use the only thing they know which is the psudo-reality concept of 'probability' to claim they have an edge, 70% winrate does not mean anything if random decides to keep giving you 20% winrate. You only need to lose your bankroll once in 'real life'.
The only things that work are VB and Precognition/inuition. Why waste your precious time on systems?
Wake up. Neo.... the matrix has you.
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 30, 08:33 PM 2019
70% winrate does not mean anything if random decides to keep giving you 20% winrate. You only need to lose your bankroll once in 'real life'.
Correction: -20% winrate.
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 30, 08:10 PM 2019Thing is, some, if not most people have no time or patience to dive into the physical wheel-reading.
What does work is another matter. I was just explaining why the usual systems lose, so people can focus on NEW things.
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 30, 08:10 PM 2019
So here is a question: I'd want to be at home and practice. Which wheel should I buy, that would ressemble what most other wheels look like, behavior-wise?
Just record spins from online casinos. Setting up and maintaining wheels is not necesarry. Use s bot to automatically record spins, and re-login as needed.
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 30, 08:10 PM 2019You say it's easy to increase accuracy. Let's say I'd be average good at learning. How long (hours, months) would it take to "have an edge"?
Depend on the wheel mostly. Could be anywhere from an hour, to a few weeks. But as you find new conditions, you'll need to learn new things.
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 30, 08:10 PM 20193: is allowing bets after ball release a common thing or growing rare?
Most casinos allow late bets to maximize revenue. It's very common.
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 30, 08:33 PM 2019
I agree 100%. Anyone wasting their time creating or looking for a system while not understanding what random is needs to re-evaluate their approach. There are many members on this forum researching systems, but hardly anyone talking about what 'Random' actually is.
If the method you choose is not increasing the accuracy of the prediction then you are just guessing. Repeaters do not work. Most systems being used are either not playable in real life situations or are built on delusions.
Even if the law of thirds was real, most system players wouldn't know how to take advantage of it. Most people do not understand what 'random' is, so they use the only thing they know which is the psudo-reality concept of 'probability' to claim they have an edge, 70% winrate does not mean anything if random decides to keep giving you 20% winrate. You only need to lose your bankroll once in 'real life'.
The only things that work are VB and Precognition/inuition. Why waste your precious time on systems?
Wake up. Neo.... the matrix has you.
Okey, lets join to this. Random. Why do you feel that random selection is a bad thing? If random, if bias, if vb, you and me we have the exact chance to win on the wheel. You have no edge because you play vb and I play system. I play system based on wheel activity, but with trigger choices, but again based on the wheel connected excellently with the roulette board. You have dont clue how big is the peoples mind, how clever there are, and you are too stupid to understand, that who create a winning system, he will not tell you a little shit about his system, because it is like a give you my house, car, wife, and my luxus life for free, which for I had worked thousands of hours a year. It was just an example, but hope you understand. Neccessary to say, that methods, triggers, or patterns are useless things. They are for you, because you read, or tryed just the basic of them, bit not thousands of hours. In this case nobady wins from roulette in long run, except bias players, which is absolutely stupidness. Millions are playing roulette daily, bewtween them are winning system/method players, you can calm down. They are nicely plays in silence without attention.
Randomness is not a big deal in roulette. You will lost with bias too, and I will lost with my method too. Important is to overcome the losses without going down more.
Cheers
Random means whatever the f*ck you do, the payout is still below the win rate.
With single numbers, thats 1 in 37 win rate, but with only 35-1 payout.
35 is lower than 37. THAT's why it matters.
Why is it so hard to understand?
Will a bet selection with random accuracy ever make 35 greater than 37?
Come on, its really, really simple. So when uneducated people say crap like random is best, anyone with understanding scratches their head, wondering what school they went to.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 30, 10:48 PM 2019Randomness is not a big deal in roulette. You will lost with bias too,
Do you understand what an edge is?
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 30, 10:48 PM 2019
Okey, lets join to this. Random. Why do you feel that random selection is a bad thing? If random, if bias, if vb, you and me we have the exact chance to win on the wheel. You have no edge because you play vb and I play system. I play system based on wheel activity, but with trigger choices, but again based on the wheel connected excellently with the roulette board. You have dont clue how big is the peoples mind, how clever there are, and you are too stupid to understand, that who create a winning system, he will not tell you a little shit about his system, because it is like a give you my house, car, wife, and my luxus life for free, which for I had worked thousands of hours a year. It was just an example, but hope you understand. Neccessary to say, that methods, triggers, or patterns are useless things. They are for you, because you read, or tryed just the basic of them, bit not thousands of hours. In this case nobady wins from roulette in long run, except bias players, which is absolutely stupidness. Millions are playing roulette daily, bewtween them are winning system/method players, you can calm down. They are nicely plays in silence without attention.
Randomness is not a big deal in roulette. You will lost with bias too, and I will lost with my method too. Important is to overcome the losses without going down more.
Cheers
I use precognition not wheel bias.
Randomness is a very big deal in roulette. That is the whole reason the casinos exist!
You and the rest of the system players are stuck in the matrix. You don’t know or care what random is and want to beat a random game using maths and statistics (which are epistemologically based on inference). You can not use induction to arrive at a prediction for random, that is crazy!
The only two viable options are;
To change random to non random by way of VB and therefore find true causal relationships between all the parameters in the wheel spin.
Or to get non-local knowledge of the next spin using precognition.
Systems do not work! In my opinion :D
How do u train telepathy to pre cog the next spin and
Do u only do single numbers
Quote from: Anastasius on Dec 30, 11:47 PM 2019
How do u train telepathy to pre cog the next spin and
Do u only do single numbers
At the moment I manage on average 1 win every 5 spins for 4 numbers. Flat bets no progression.
Im a still training everyday aiming to one day get 1 win on 1 spin playing 1 number. The real holy grail. O0
You can find my guides and threads in the out of the box section of the forum.
And the method....
First number pops into head
Or u meditate on it...
Use a device like magic 8 ball
Etc?
35 being less than 37 is not just opinion.
Random meaning 1 in 37 average is not opinion.
Quote from: Anastasius on Dec 30, 11:58 PM 2019
And the method....
First number pops into head
Or u meditate on it...
Use a device like magic 8 ball
Etc?
You can find my guides and threads in the “outside the box†section of the forum.
I use a form of mental dowsing, and energy work. Research remote viewing if you are new to this.
Happy New Year Dumb People!
You smarty pants AP guys and clever dick precog nuts can suck the big ones.
Quote from: Taotie on Dec 31, 03:56 AM 2019Happy New Year Dumb People!
Thanks mate, same to you too.
Quote from: Taotie on Dec 31, 03:56 AM 2019You smarty pants AP guys and clever dick precog nuts can suck the big ones.
Yep f*ck them c*nts
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 30, 11:36 PM 2019
I use precognition not wheel bias.
Randomness is a very big deal in roulette. That is the whole reason the casinos exist!
You and the rest of the system players are stuck in the matrix. You don’t know or care what random is and want to beat a random game using maths and statistics (which are epistemologically based on inference). You can not use induction to arrive at a prediction for random, that is crazy!
The only two viable options are;
To change random to non random by way of VB and therefore find true causal relationships between all the parameters in the wheel spin.
Or to get non-local knowledge of the next spin using precognition.
Systems do not work! In my opinion :D
No, i dont use neither math and statistics, I know that these are useless for roulette thinking about math and stats. I have triggers (and not patterns) based on wheel activity, or wheel frequency around the last 12 spins, connected it whit the roulette board. You will never see this connection, but if once in your life can, you would change your thoughts immadiately for the method players.
Next I dont use mechanical bets, becaause its true, that this is linear way to the loss. I must rethink over and over my bets spin after spin.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 05:46 AM 2019
No, i dont use neither math and statistics, I know that these are useless for roulette thinking about math and stats. I have triggers (and not patterns) based on wheel activity, or wheel frequency around the last 12 spins, connected it whit the roulette board. You will never see this connection, but if once in your life can, you would change your thoughts immadiately for the method players.
Next I dont use mechanical bets, becaause its true, that this is linear way to the loss. I must rethink over and over my bets spin after spin.
That’s brilliant, good for you if you winning!
If it always wins then you must have the holy grail. But why do you need to rethink? Are you using something like GUT?
Quote from: Taotie on Dec 31, 03:56 AM 2019
Happy New Year Dumb People!
You smarty pants AP guys and clever dick precog nuts can suck the big ones.
:lol: happy new year!
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 31, 06:50 AM 2019
That’s brilliant, good for you if you winning!
If it always wins then you must have the holy grail. But why do you need to rethink? Are you using something like GUT?
I am still in practise fase, I tested tons of real manual spins. Sometimes I doubled my bankroll after 50 spins, sometimes needed to accept a small loss, but as I said, I am still in a "improve " fase, with lot of test, but honestly promising concept.
Gut? No, no gut, Gut leads you nowhere.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 07:36 AM 2019
I am still in practise fase, I tested tons of real manual spins. Sometimes I doubled my bankroll after 50 spins, sometimes needed to accept a small loss, but as I said, I am still in a "improve " fase, with lot of test, but honestly promising concept.
Gut? No, no gut, Gut leads you nowhere.
That is amazing!
I mean winkels GUT system?
Will your method only work on live real play or does it work on RNG too?
If it works with RNG can you demonstrate it on Roulettesimulator?
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 31, 08:10 AM 2019
That is amazing!
I mean winkels GUT system?
Will your method only work on live real play or does it work on RNG too?
If it works with RNG can you demonstrate it on Roulettesimulator?
I dont know what is winkel system, but I do not even care, I focus on mine, he focus if his, and that is all ok. I test with random 3 million live spins copy randomly 50-100 spins to excel, and make manually, because of the selection as I said it is not mechanical, all mechanic play will crash after a while, with our without money management, what is also is on top position for me. I think only real casino will going to play well, RNG is a sofwer based slot machine, I avoid this, and I avoid online live dealer play too. Just real casino spins, test back, and if will it will show continously good results, time to bring to play to the casino.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 08:20 AM 2019
I dont know what is winkel system, but I do not even care, I focus on mine, he focus if his, and that is all ok. I test with random 3 million live spins copy randomly 50-100 spins to excel, and make manually, because of the selection as I said it is not mechanical, all mechanic play will crash after a while, with our without money management, what is also is on top position for me. I think only real casino will going to play well, RNG is a sofwer based slot machine, I avoid this, and I avoid online live dealer play too. Just real casino spins, test back, and if will it will show continously good results, time to bring to play to the casino.
Ok, so you are a Advantage player. You are finding triggers based off the wheel bais and mapping those triggers to positions on the board? And you do not use maths or stats.
Since you are not a systems player, maybe what you have might work. Hard to judge without seeing evidence.
As long as you are not claiming to use triggers for a purely random wheel, join the AP club. :thumbsup:
No, I am not a bias player. I not find bad wheels to play, I will play any of real wheel. I use table qualification before play (or I will). I use triggers yes, and no deep progression. Of course I had bad situations, and not every time I could overcome, and recover. Rather accepted a loss, or switched to another method to attack eoulette not only from one way, but more. This is important too to have more nethod version. I am a method player in a test phase, so I not play real yet not. I am not that person who will lie , that yes I win every day, no I am not. I just said, I have a peomising concept/method, and I use triggers progression based on wheel activity, thats all, I am not here to convince or guide anybody. So I am not exactly system player, I MIX system with AP probably is the right word.
And something to Steve, and to annother vb ap or what kind of players are like Jehovas Whitnesses. They are knock the other doors to say "Heey , but but progression, and triggers will not overcome variance, and bla bla randomness.." Jesus🤦â€â™,
Simplify this fuckn roulette. There are losses and winnings. Winnings is ok. Losses are not. Thats why you must overcome losses, and thats it a very hard part if this game. But not unsolvable!
Cheers
........is there an echo in here?
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 08:44 AM 2019
No, I am not a bias player. I not find bad wheels to play, I will play any of real wheel. I use table qualification before play (or I will). I use triggers yes, and no deep progression. Of course I had bad situations, and not every time I could overcome, and recover. Rather accepted a loss, or switched to another method to attack eoulette not only from one way, but more. This is important too to have more nethod version. I am a method player in a test phase, so I not play real yet not. I am not that person who will lie , that yes I win every day, no I am not. I just said, I have a peomising concept/method, and I use triggers progression based on wheel activity, thats all, I am not here to convince or guide anybody. So I am not exactly system player, I MIX system with AP probably is the right word.
And something to Steve, and to annother vb ap or what kind of players are like Jehovas Whitnesses. They are knock the other doors to say "Heey , but but progression, and triggers will not overcome variance, and bla bla randomness.." Jesus🤦â€â™,
Simplify this fuckn roulette. There are losses and winnings. Winnings is ok. Losses are not. Thats why you must overcome losses, and thats it a very hard part if this game. But not unsolvable!
Cheers
Do not waste your time looking for triggers on a completely random wheel.
Perfect random does not have triggers. If random had triggers then it would not be random.
Learn to think deeper, here is some basic reading material;
link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness
link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_variable
link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_theory
link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
link:s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_hand
Perfect wheel would be random yes. But nothing is perfect in this world, so wheels neither. There were built by people, so cant be perfect .
Often, we consider an event to be accidental - more precisely random - because we are unable to gather enough information to predict the outcome of the event. Other times, because its occurrence, what has happened in the human mind, seems incomprehensible, meaningless, useless.
In other cases, the outcome of the phenomenon is, in principle, unpredictable and thus inherently random. Such events include the decay of radioactive nuclei. The probability of these can be described, analyzed, but the exact occurrence of each event is unpredictable.
In practice, these two phenomena are mixed, since it is virtually irrelevant whether the output of a coin toss (head or writing) could, in principle, be predicted by perfectly knowing the physical characteristics of the coin and the airflows (mass, velocity, friction, etc.).
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 09:28 AM 2019
Perfect wheel would be random yes. But nothing is perfect in this world, so wheels neither. There were built by people, so cant be perfect .
ok I understand now, so you are attempting to change random to non-random by finding bais in the wheel? as you said you mix AP with triggers.
Good luck!!
I not play AP, as I said before twice. My triggers makes huge part of a game, without it I cant make bets. You will never see these connections at the wheeI I think, but maybe who knows.
The triggers is connected with the wheel activity.
Anyway, thanks, and good luck for everybody.
Eko
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 30, 11:56 PM 2019
At the moment I manage on average 1 win every 5 spins for 4 numbers. Flat bets no progression.
Im a still training everyday aiming to one day get 1 win on 1 spin playing 1 number. The real holy grail. O0
You can find my guides and threads in the out of the box section of the forum.
To do this consistently by will you need significant changes in how you conduct yourself.
Feel free to meditate on this issue if you want deeper answers.
I think taking reishi mushrooms for prolonged period of time would be beneficial.
Quote from: Kairomancer on Dec 31, 11:40 AM 2019
To do this consistently by will you need significant changes in how you conduct yourself.
Feel free to meditate on this issue if you want deeper answers.
I think taking reishi mushrooms for prolonged period of time would be beneficial.
link:s://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-conductance_state
Quote from: Kairomancer on Dec 31, 11:49 AM 2019
link:s://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-conductance_state
Thanks that should be an interesting read.
I think only way to find answer how to beat roulette is to join "ashram". link:s://youtu.be/pZMl1Efwzsk
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 08:44 AM 2019And something to Steve, and to annother vb ap or what kind of players are like Jehovas Whitnesses. They are knock the other doors to say "Heey , but but progression, and triggers will not overcome variance, and bla bla randomness.." Jesus🤦â€â™,
No, you have it backwards. We are round earthers telling flat earthers that earth is round. And the flat earthers cant stand hearing about reality, so they take it personally and attack the round earthers.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 09:46 AM 2019
I not play AP, as I said before twice.
FYI...AP = Advantage play. If you're saying that you're not an AP, then you're proclaiming that you don't have the edge over the casino with your system.
In other words, you're stating that your system doesn't work.
Quote from: The General on Dec 31, 10:30 PM 2019
FYI...AP = Advantage play. If you're saying that you're not an AP, then you're proclaiming that you don't have the edge over the casino with your system.
In other words, you're stating that your system doesn't work.
I dont know if I have advantage or not, I know that until now I have promising method.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 10:38 PM 2019
I dont know if I have advantage or not, I know that until now I have promising method.
What makes you think that it's promising? For example, why do you feel that it should work? (I'm not picking on you, just trying to help.)
In the meantime, know that your goal, and really everyone's goal that wants to win, is to become an AP.
AP = Good achievement.
Everyone needs to understand AP is basically changing your odds of winning. So instead of 1 in 37, its perhaps 1 in 30.
There's this bullshit attitude that AP is for math nazis. Thats the attitude of people who dont like reality being explained to them.
If you arent getting an edge, it isnt AP. If your bets have random accuracy, your system doesnt work.
Quote from: The General on Dec 31, 10:41 PM 2019
What makes you think that it's promising? For example, why do you feel that it should work? (I'm not picking on you, just trying to help.)
In the meantime, know that your goal, and really everyone's goal that wants to win, is to become an AP.
AP = Good achievement.
I think is promising cause I win more than I loss, and I overcome losses most of the time. I think is should work because I not play mechanically, I change my bet selection if it requires, and I play in the same time the wheel and the roulette board connected with each other.
Before you said AP -> Advantage Play. Now it is Good achivement? I think we misudnerstood each other, or idk what AP means or what is the difference between system/method players and AP. I use triggers, pttern, progression, past spins. But wheel frequency, activity too. I think I mix, now it is AP?
AP is anything that gives you a legitimate advantage.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 31, 10:50 PM 2019I use triggers, pttern, progression, past spins
If you use these in a way that still gives you random accuracy, your system changes nothing.
Quote from: Steve on Jan 01, 01:06 AM 2020
AP is anything that gives you a legitimate advantage.
If you use these in a way that still gives you random accuracy, your system changes nothing.
Yes, progressions used to overcome losses due to losses caused by the random wheel not behaving in accordance with your betting strategy offers no edge. I prefer not to use progressions in defining my bet selections but if I were to use a progression it would be to account for times when the wheel generates results that are the reverse of player good luck. eg just as a player can have bad luck guessing the EC result of any sequence of spins, the wheel normally has bad luck generating a predetermined sequence of EC results. This could be a predetermined randomly generated sequence of Black/Red or the repeat of a predetermine pattern from past spins . But on occasion, as analogous to being hit by Lightning, the wheel can seem to be reading ones mind and generate such freakish results. So using a controlled progression knowing the odds are in your favour that a non rigged wheel will NOT generate a pattern consistently to beat you every session can be a viable solution. But it should have controls built in to protect your bankroll. Eg no good betting your entire bankroll using a progression that can wipe you out. Use 10% of your bank and you sill have 90% left to continue.
The same progression approqach can be used when using a Roulette computer due to previous bets not going to plan knowing that most bets should hit within your predetermined standard Deviation of pockets from that calculated by RC.
Alternatively you can just flatbet knowing you will win more times than you lose.
Cheers,
Ricky
Quote from: Steve on Dec 30, 07:11 PM 2019
No, because bias means bets based on cause and effect.
Proper bias analysis is more than statistical study. You should also observe spins and the wheel for typical clues for bias.
Yes, using Dealer Signature or any other physics related attribute of a live wheel spin is using cause and effect and expecting future spins will mimic the patterns produced by wheel bias. Unfortunately, these days Casinos are making use of RRS technologies which is countering the effects of dealer signature and biased wheels. I suspect even Roulette Computers will be impacted by the effects of RRS technology. It all depends on the short term wheel rotation changes made in 5-6 spins being measured.
Cheers,
Ricky
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 03:32 AM 2020
Yes, progressions used to overcome losses due to losses caused by the random wheel not behaving in accordance with your betting strategy offers no edge. I prefer not to use progressions in defining my bet selections but if I were to use a progression it would be to account for times when the wheel generates results that are the reverse of player good luck. eg just as a player can have bad luck guessing the EC result of any sequence of spins, the wheel normally has bad luck generating a predetermined sequence of EC results. This could be a predetermined randomly generated sequence of Black/Red or the repeat of a predetermine pattern from past spins . But on occasion, as analogous to being hit by Lightning, the wheel can seem to be reading ones mind and generate such freakish results. So using a controlled progression knowing the odds are in your favour that a non rigged wheel will NOT generate a pattern consistently to beat you every session can be a viable solution. But it should have controls built in to protect your bankroll. Eg no good betting your entire bankroll using a progression that can wipe you out. Use 10% of your bank and you sill have 90% left to continue.
The same progression approqach can be used when using a Roulette computer due to previous bets not going to plan knowing that most bets should hit within your predetermined standard Deviation of pockets from that calculated by RC.
Alternatively you can just flatbet knowing you will win more times than you lose.
Cheers,
Ricky
“Luck�
Please explain what this word means to you.
What exactly is bad luck or good luck.
How can you use logic/rationality to arrive at “good luck�
Quote from: precogmiles on Dec 30, 08:33 PM 2019
I agree 100%. Anyone wasting their time creating or looking for a system while not understanding what random is needs to re-evaluate their approach. There are many members on this forum researching systems, but hardly anyone talking about what 'Random' actually is.
If the method you choose is not increasing the accuracy of the prediction then you are just guessing. Repeaters do not work. Most systems being used are either not playable in real life situations or are built on delusions.
Even if the law of thirds was real, most system players wouldn't know how to take advantage of it. Most people do not understand what 'random' is, so they use the only thing they know which is the psudo-reality concept of 'probability' to claim they have an edge, 70% winrate does not mean anything if random decides to keep giving you 20% winrate. You only need to lose your bankroll once in 'real life'.
The only things that work are VB and Precognition/inuition. Why waste your precious time on systems?
Wake up. Neo.... the matrix has you.
I agree with most of what you say about systems. The thing is, unless you are good at VB, have an RC or the live wheel is not using RRS technology, we are left with other methods that must contend with the random spin. There are several ways to do this:
1. play random against random - ala Permutations Pro
2. study randomly generated patterms that are constantly forming from spin to spin and device a bet selection that covers many of those common patterns within a fixed spin cycle say 37 spins and make use of the 35-1 or even 17-1 payout to allow for the inaccuracy of following such systems.
With option 2, I would not discount the general concept of numbers repeating 2 or more times within a spin cycle and using this fact as part of a well formulated strategy that includes other patterns. But to say this one pattern can be relied on continuously and effectively used in a non changing bet selection will not grant the player an advantage. Again if you use the payout of 35-1 or 17-1 you have room to account for the error in selection. We do know that any random spin can be defined in terms of 3 outcomes within a given cycle:
1. A unique number
2. A single repeat of a unique number already spun
3. A second or greater repeat of a repeated number
The same idea can be said of other patterns and other groups like splits/streets/lines/quads/dozens/columns/EC.
But then there are even other groups that can be defined in terms of the above 3 outcomes. This can include sectors of the wheel, numbers on the carpet etc.
I do not know about precog but I would not say it in itself offers a better advantage than a well thought out system not based on cause and effect. I appreciate the existence of positive and negative energies that are beyond our understanding and ability to measure and prove. There is no doubt these forces have resulted in extraodinary feats by humans. But how to apply these forces to the random game of roulette I am not sure. The only thing I can say is when I am play certain numbers I have resorted to focusing on those numbers as the wheel turns and am amazed when the ball actually follows my prediction and lands on the selected number.
Cheers,
Ricky
1. RRS is rare enough to not be a concern. Its very easy to detect if its being used.
2. Even if every wheel used it, it generally halves a computer edge. So it makes a 50% edge about 25%. It's not a problem.
3. If the RRS settings are extreme to nullify a computer edge, the rotor speed changes would be visually obvious, lose trust of ordinary players, and lose the casino revenue.
Casinos can stop AP, at the expense of losing more revenue than they save.
Winning is not hard. Avoiding detection is the main problem.
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 04:05 AM 20201. play random against random
How can you turn random against itself?
If you have random anywhere in the equation, the result is random.
Quote from: Steve on Jan 01, 01:06 AM 2020
AP is anything that gives you a legitimate advantage.
If you use these in a way that still gives you random accuracy, your system changes nothing.
How can I know I have random accuracy or not?
Quote from: precogmiles on Jan 01, 03:54 AM 2020
“Luck�
Please explain what this word means to you.
What exactly is bad luck or good luck.
How can you use logic/rationality to arrive at “good luck�
Quite simply good luck is when an outcome results in your favour and bad luck is when it does not.
Like anything in life you make your own luck. Some luck can be calculated in the knowledge you have gained from life experiences being used in your favour.
Cheers
Ricky
Quote from: Steve on Jan 01, 04:10 AM 2020
How can you turn random against itself?
If you have random anywhere in the equation, the result is random.
If you read what Permutations Pro is about it is doing exactly this. Rather than the player guessing what the random outcome of the next spin will be you force the wheel to spin a series of spins (not just one) using a predermined pattern and then you bet AGAINST this random event happening. So the idea is you should win more times than you lose as chaos has a hard time of generating consistent patterns. Think of it in terms of taking the role of the casino and the casino the role of the player. For the Casino to win they need to consistently generate spins more regular than the chaotic nature of random. If they can achieve this against ALL the casino players using this method then they are either cheating or there is a casino god that protects the profits of casinos and curses the player for committing the sin of gambling their life savings away.
LOL
Cheers,
Ricky
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 04:05 AM 2020
I agree with most of what you say about systems. The thing is, unless you are good at VB, have an RC or the live wheel is not using RRS technology, we are left with other methods that must contend with the random spin. There are several ways to do this:
1. play random against random - ala Permutations Pro
2. study randomly generated patterms that are constantly forming from spin to spin and device a bet selection that covers many of those common patterns within a fixed spin cycle say 37 spins and make use of the 35-1 or even 17-1 payout to allow for the inaccuracy of following such systems.
With option 2, I would not discount the general concept of numbers repeating 2 or more times within a spin cycle and using this fact as part of a well formulated strategy that includes other patterns. But to say this one pattern can be relied on continuously and effectively used in a non changing bet selection will not grant the player an advantage. Again if you use the payout of 35-1 or 17-1 you have room to account for the error in selection. We do know that any random spin can be defined in terms of 3 outcomes within a given cycle:
1. A unique number
2. A single repeat of a unique number already spun
3. A second or greater repeat of a repeated number
The same idea can be said of other patterns and other groups like splits/streets/lines/quads/dozens/columns/EC.
But then there are even other groups that can be defined in terms of the above 3 outcomes. This can include sectors of the wheel, numbers on the carpet etc.
I do not know about precog but I would not say it in itself offers a better advantage than a well thought out system not based on cause and effect. I appreciate the existence of positive and negative energies that are beyond our understanding and ability to measure and prove. There is no doubt these forces have resulted in extraodinary feats by humans. But how to apply these forces to the random game of roulette I am not sure. The only thing I can say is when I am play certain numbers I have resorted to focusing on those numbers as the wheel turns and am amazed when the ball actually follows my prediction and lands on the selected number.
Cheers,
Ricky
Interesting ideas. I would say that most people haven’t taken the precog route seriously because of fundamental prejudices against it. As you have experienced yourself strange things we could even refer to as “lucky†happen more often than we think is possible.
My contention with systems is that they the are usually too rational. Without an element of the esoteric or non-rational then it is almost impossible to predict random, apart from general ideas like repeaters. Even if we do know repeaters will exist in a certain number of spins, how do you use this information? And you are al battling against the house edge in terms of payouts and table limits. You are a extreme disadvantage.
You must improve the accuracy.
Quote from: precogmiles on Jan 01, 04:44 AM 2020My contention with systems is that they the are usually too rational. Without an element of the esoteric or non-rational then it is almost impossible to predict random, apart from general ideas like repeaters. Even if we do know repeaters will exist in a certain number of spins, how do you use this information? And you are al battling against the house edge in terms of payouts and table limits. You are a extreme disadvantage.
The way I see it if you know what you are looking for then you lay a trap just like catching a bear. How do you catch your prey? You could use a trap, dig a hole or use a gun. Any of these methods requires skill in understanding how a bear thinks or actually finding the bear to be able to use the gun. A trap can be camoflagued as not to be detected and placed in a know walking trail used by the bear in the past. So knowledge of your enemy will give you an advantage in catching your prey as oppoased to just lay a trap in any location and hoping to get lucky.
Same knowledge can be used when designing a roulette system to catch those inevitable patterns. With a 35-1 payout and betting 1 number you have 35 attempts to catch your prey before it becomes a losing proposition. Place 2 traps out and bet 2 numbers you still have 17 atempts to get it right.
Cheers,
Ricky
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 04:21 AM 2020
Quite simply good luck is when an outcome results in your favour and bad luck is when it does not.
Like anything in life you make your own luck. Some luck can be calculated in the knowledge you have gained from life experiences being used in your favour.
Cheers
Ricky
Can a system produce lucky results?
Can a computer be lucky?
Will the longer you play roulette make you more lucky?
What is the relationship between luck and belief/knowledge?
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 04:30 AM 2020Rather than the player guessing what the random outcome of the next spin will be you force the wheel to spin a series of spins (not just one) using a predermined pattern and then you bet AGAINST this random event happening.
This wont work. The wheel or rng doesnt care what you do.
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 05:00 AM 2020
The way I see it if you know what you are looking for then you lay a trap just like catching a bear. How do you catch your prey? You could use a trap, dig a hole or use a gun. Any of these methods requires skill in understanding how a bear thinks or actually finding the bear to be able to use the gun. A trap can be camoflagued as not to be detected and placed in a know walking trail used by the bear in the past. So knowledge of your enemy will give you an advantage in catching your prey as oppoased to just lay a trap in any location and hoping to get lucky.
Same knowledge can be used when designing a roulette system to catch those inevitable patterns. With a 35-1 payout and betting 1 number you have 35 attempts to catch your prey before it becomes a losing proposition. Place 2 traps out and bet 2 numbers you still have 17 atempts to get it right.
Cheers,
Ricky
I like the bear analogy, but let’s change it slightly. Imagine you are looking for water in an arid desert instead of the bear. In this case let us examine how humans have attempted to solve this life or death situation. Some look for signals like birds, plants or insects. These are all based on empirical knowledge and deductive logic. However some have used dowsing rods, which gives us access to non local knowledge.
I would claim that in the absence of an empirical set of axioms to base a theory or system all we are let with is the equivalent of dowsing for water.
And again I don’t understand how knowing general outcomes can give us specific outcomes. It is equivalent to guessing someone’s name, and answering that their name probably doesn’t have the letters x or z. As most names do not have x or z in them, you might be right but you are still no closer the getting their name correct.
Quote from: Mister Eko on Jan 01, 04:20 AM 2020
How can I know I have random accuracy or not?
Test a statistically significant amount of spins. See :.roulettephysics.com/roulette-strategy/ all the basics are there.
Quote from: precogmiles on Jan 01, 05:20 AM 2020
I like the bear analogy, but let’s change it slightly. Imagine you are looking for water in an arid desert instead of the bear. In this case let us examine how humans have attempted to solve this life or death situation. Some look for signals like birds, plants or insects. These are all based on empirical knowledge and deductive logic. However some have used dowsing rods, which gives us access to non local knowledge.
I would claim that in the absence of an empirical set of axioms to base a theory or system all we are let with is the equivalent of dowsing for water.
And again I don’t understand how knowing general outcomes can give us specific outcomes. It is equivalent to guessing someone’s name, and answering that their name probably doesn’t have the letters x or z. As most names do not have x or z in them, you might be right but you are still no closer the getting their name correct.
Good alternate analogy. I guess when it comes to designing systems over using emperical methods its a matter of how eager are you to know the answer. If it is a matter of life and death then use the empirical method over the less effective method. But if you play the game as a challenge to your skills then the less empirical method is far more exciting. Its like a chess game,. It is a game of skill. There is no emperical way to beat your opponent just tactics that have proven to be effective in the past so you try them against your current opponent. How he responds and how you react accordingly defines your success or failure.
Quote from: Ricky on Jan 01, 06:03 AM 2020
Its like a chess game,. It is a game of skill.
I think this is where we disagree. There is no skill involved in roulette if you are using maths or statistics. The odds do not change and even ideas like Regression to the mean do not help you perdict the next outcome. Progression is just a crutch and you always have the table limits to stop you from winning.
Quote from: Steve on Dec 30, 06:16 PM 2019You cant reason with someone who isnt interested in the truth. Dumb people allow themselves to be misled.
And still people continue to use systems.
Whatever people think
Dealer change is a big risk to bets.
There is no holy grail
But there are systems that make profits in the long run.
So to summarise roulette can make you profit .
Quote from: MILLWARD007 on Jan 19, 06:04 PM 2020
But there are systems that make profits in the long run.
Prove it!